Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome Tony.
I'm delighted to have you here.
Toni: Hi Anka.
Thanks for having me.
Anke: Well, I always ask, and I have to ask you as well, where in
this lovely world are you based and what's your business with dogs?
Toni: Sure.
So I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States.
And um, I, my life with dogs is very long.
Um, yeah, it's very long and I think we all can, we both can agree that our, our
dogs kind of guide us throughout life.
I feel like.
So Cool.
So yeah.
So, um, but currently I have a podcast called Tony Unleashed, and it is about,
um, natural remedies to common ailments.
In pets, in dogs and cats.
So I'm very holistically minded and, um, I feed my dogs raw food
and, um, I really just try to spread that message as much as I can.
So that's kind of what I'm, that's basically what I'm doing right now.
Anke: I love that.
I love that because I think.
For, for some weird reason, there still needs to be quite
a bit of education around that.
Yeah.
Topic there.
Right.
So I know when I started looking, when I started reading the labels was when my
first dog just stumbled into my life and the kibble that I was, that the vet told
me I needed, like I wasn't allowed, I was not to feed him anything else other
than the expensive kibble they sold.
You know, and he had skin issues and, you know, he kind of wasn't a good agent.
Like something didn't add up.
So, you know, that was what made me look, you know, and I came across the
seaboard where somebody said, well actually tip number one, read the labels
and you'll never feed that crap again.
So that's kind of what, what made me look into the direction of,
okay, kibble isn't the answer.
You know?
What was it for you?
Toni: So literally 25 years ago, I was walking into a grooming shop,
and as I walked into the grooming grooming shop, I witnessed the groomer
handing her dogs raw chicken legs.
And I am not a very shy person.
And I said, what are you doing?
You cannot give your dogs raw chicken, let alone chicken bones.
Those are the legs.
You're gonna kill your dogs.
And she said, no, I'm not.
She said, I feed raw food.
This is how they, this is biologically appropriate to them.
This is how they would naturally eat in the wild.
Kibble is manmade and highly processed, and literally a light bulb went on in
my head and we talked for a while, and then she recommended a couple of books.
And this was 25 years ago.
So I went straight to the bookstore and I, I bought the books.
And read the books.
And then my dog at the time, her name was Meg.
She was eating Purina one, and that's what the shelter was
feeding when I adopted her.
So I just kept on feeding her Purina one, and as soon as I read
those books, one of which is Dr.
Ian Billinghurst.
Give your dog a bone.
It's a fantastic book that I highly recommend, but, um, I literally cold
turkeyed her from Purina one to Raw Food the next day and we never looked back.
And she, the, the crazy thing is Anka is she had zero digestive upset from
going cold Turkey from kibble to raw.
So, um, and then she didn't really have any issues like health issues.
Fortunately, she was a pretty healthy dog.
But she still changed.
Like her coat became softer and thicker and fuller.
Her eyes were brighter, her teeth were cleaner, her breath was fresher.
She poops less, she drinks less water.
She, I mean, there were just so many changes in her that it was just, uh.
It, it just creates a different animal.
So, um, so that was Meg.
And the weird thing was too, where I was living at the time with Meg, there
was a small little pet food store.
Really close to my house.
So when I would walk, Meg, uh, we'd stop in, but they didn't carry raw food.
They carried natural foods like grain-free kibble and better selections.
So, but I'd stop in and they'd give her a treat and I'd buy some treats and things,
and you know how, you know how that goes.
And you just get to know each other.
It becomes like a, you know, like a family almost.
So, um.
So the owners one day said to me, I'm, we're thinking about moving to
Florida and we wanna sell the business.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So, um, so prior to, and I was pet sitting at the time, so I had my, I'D had my own
pet sitting business for about eight years and I was getting to the end of that.
I was really burning myself out and prior to PET sitting, I have an
extensive retail management background.
Yeah, that's made in heaven, right?
So, um, so that's kind of, so I bought the store, um, and that was one location
that was a thousand square feet.
I moved it six months after I bought it.
I doubled my square footage, which allowed me to bring my first freezer in.
And then, so that was in 2008.
And then 2011 I opened a second location, um, because I had people coming from all,
like very far distances because I, I mean, I had a lot big selection of raw food.
So then, um, I opened a third location in 2019 and then a fourth location in 2022.
So, um, I really built and grew the raw food market, um, and I.
You know, that really has helped a lot of pets in the area.
Helped a, a lot of education in the area.
And then, um, in like 2021, I'm like, I feel like this message needs to go further
than just Pittsburgh and I, and that's why that's, that's how the podcast came to be.
Anke: Wow.
Wow.
I love that.
I mean, you know, it, it makes so much sense to me.
You know, and it's interesting that you saw that, you
mentioned the, the cold Turkey.
I actually had somebody on the show not long ago, and she was basically saying,
well, yeah, why wouldn't you go cold?
Like, you know, if you like the moment, it's almost like if you.
Nothing but hamburgers all your life.
And all of a sudden you realize that that's actually not very good for you.
You're gonna start eating better food, but you're not gonna kind
of gently ease in for a month.
You know, like, right.
You know?
So like, yeah, no, you're gonna eat better food and your body's gonna be grateful.
You know?
It's really, because I think it's one of those, um.
This idea that people always have kib, then you kind of
have to kind of transition.
Is that, is would, in any case, would be situations when.
You
Toni: do have to transition from kibble to kibble.
But the crazy thing is when you are a raw feeder, you do not
have to transition with raw food.
So my dogs eat different brands, different proteins from morning to night even,
and they have no issues whatsoever.
So I feel like that speaks volumes.
Anke: Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So what do you think?
Like what do you think, uh, why, why are you sort of KIPP still hanging in there?
I, I get the sense, and I don't know, like it's my personal perception that
more people become aware of, you know, Hey, this isn't the best thing to feed,
you know, but it, it's still the common thing, like dog food is a, is on a
shelf in a supermarket kind of thing.
And if you're lucky, it's, uh, it's a more expensive kibble at the vets.
But, so this idea of there's still this like.
Is this a good idea?
You know, that's even still a question, right?
So what, what's your theory on that?
Toni: So my theory on that's, that's a great question.
Um, my theory on that is as much as I want kibble to completely go
away, I think it's an unrealistic, I.
Idea because of mostly cost and marketing, we and the veterinary
industry, the veterinary industry really pushes, pushes, pushes the kibble.
And even not just even their prescription based kibble, they really push it
because, you know, their, their phrase is, well, it's been scientifically tested.
We've, we've got the data to back it.
Well, the data is from the companies that make it, or the pharmaceutical
companies that own the kibble.
Companies that own the vets that own.
So it's just this convoluted message.
Right?
Yeah.
So, and then from a cost perspective, I mean, it is more
expensive to feed raw food.
Anke: True, but I, I must say, I've always had a says.
It's been literally almost like to the, the week, 20 years since
my first dog came into my life.
And I can honestly say what I spent more on, on food I safe in bed costs.
Toni: Yes, I 100%.
'cause I
Anke: literally, like, when I look at the kind of health issues that my
dogs have is like nothing, you know, to the kind of health issues that
dogs have, who I know are basically.
Get kibble and stuff.
So I, I don't really think that kibble is more cost effective if you really take
everything into account in the moment, it's cheaper and maybe convenience.
But then you were saying freezer, so you know, like, 'cause maybe not, so not
everybody, not everybody wants to like chop the head off a chicken every day.
You know, like it's, and not everybody's close to a
Toni: butcher.
Because going to a butcher that is very cost effective.
Yeah.
When you go straight to the source and get some necks and body parts
and you know, that sort of thing, then it definitely can be effective.
Yeah.
And yes, you're a thousand percent right, you spend less money at the vet.
Anke: So how do you kind of solve the convenience or, you know,
address the convenience concern?
I mean, is there a way, you know, when you say like, in the freezer, can, you
know, if you kind of, I mean, I have a freezer here, literally it's for the dogs.
It's for the dogs, right?
Yeah.
Toni: Yeah.
It, I don't think it's, it's not more complicated to feed raw food, especially.
If you can buy a brand that is thaw and serve like they make, they
make them in eight ounce patties.
They make them in two ounce little meatballs.
They make them them in little bites.
They make it e, it's easy.
So if you do not want to go to a butcher and you know, do the body
part route or make your own grind, you can go to a local, most likely
a locally owned pet food store and get formulas that are already.
Ready to go.
Yeah.
Anke: I mean, that's the thing.
It's almost like there's, I can't even see a reason why
somebody would still, you know.
I don't know.
There's, there's no, there's, I can't see any benefit because
the stuff's like imminent.
Like my dogs even didn't even, like, I remember Leo, I mean the
other Don, like the last, the big ones nowadays she doesn't, I don't
think she even like the last one.
She's like almost three.
I don't think she's ever tried it.
Like I don't think she knows what it is, you know?
That's awesome.
But, um, you know, like Leo.
I know was a picky eater.
He wasn't a good eater, and I constantly have to put that bowl in front of his
face to try and encourage him to eat.
You know, the moment he ate real food, he gobbled it up and, and
so I'd have to kind of, you know.
Yeah.
But also they, they don't get overweight.
Toni: They don't get overweight because they,
Anke: they do actually eat, like, you know, well, I don't know a lot or not a
lot, whatever, but, but they don't get overweight even when they age, you know?
Toni: Because you don't have to have that starch, that is the binder and kibble, so
that starch turns to sugar in the body, and that's what makes them get fats.
So yeah, my dogs have always been lean and mean.
And I usually, I mean, usually people say to me, oh, isn't your
dog a little on the thin side?
And I'm like, well, actually not.
You know?
Yeah.
We just, I think we have a distorted view of how big our dogs should be.
Yeah.
Um, and they even tell us, you shouldn't see their ribs.
You should only feel their ribs.
Well, I think if you can see the ribs a little bit, it's okay.
You know what I mean?
Like my dog, I have a great Dane.
I have two dogs right now.
I have a great Dane, Layla.
And you can see her muscles like you, like.
She is gorgeous.
Absolutely, and you can see her too, but she.
Anke: But I think it also depends on the breed, you know, like you can have a
Greyhound and I think you should probably see some ribs because it's not the poor
thing's probably too fat, you know?
Whereas like a, a chunky Labrador, like, you know, whatever with
a, or if they have longer.
Coat more fluffy.
It's probably harder to see.
You would wanna starve them to the point that you can see the ribs, right?
Yes.
But I think there's also common sense and comes in play, right?
So you wouldn't wanna kind of just like, yeah, yeah.
Go by that, go by that visual, you know?
Yeah.
Toni: Unfortunately, sense.
I think marketing has pushed common sense out of a lot of people's heads.
Anke: Yeah, I mean, I mean you were mentioning sort of brands.
Are there some specific ones that you would, other than your own?
You know, like, is there, if somebody wants to start, I'm like, okay, I
don't have, I can't go to Tony's shops.
Like, where, where should I start?
Like what's a, what's a good place to start if somebody
goes, well, let me try this.
Toni: Yeah.
So depending on what's available and where your, where all your listeners are, um,
solutions pet food is one of my favorites.
Um, they're, um, real, they don't even freeze in plastic.
That's how, you know extreme.
They are as far as it being pure.
So they only use ra, they wrap it in butcher paper and then pack it in
cardboard boxes because they don't want the dioxins from a plastic
to transfer into the raw food.
Right.
So, um, solutions pet food is one of my favorite.
Um, raw dynamic is a great brand.
Raw dynamic is, I feel like, has grown greatly because theirs is in little cubes.
So I think from a, from a visual perspective, like a customer, a person can
still see themselves scooping that just like we're so used to scooping kibble.
I, I, I think it's,
Anke: it's like hamburgers, right?
It's, you
Toni: feel like you're, you know.
That's fine.
Making that.
Yeah.
I don't know.
So, um, rod, any, there are quite a few good brands.
Um, what's another good one?
OC Raw, um, instinct is good brand, which is more available at like, pets Butter.
Petco selling Chewy's is now available at PetSmart and Petco.
Um, so, and that's all, you know, a, a good selection of
what's available in the us.
Anke: It does seem to me like there's more and more, uh, choice.
Right.
You know when, yeah, when I first started to get layer off, off cable,
like literally the Moroccan butcher down the road was literally the only
place you could get stuff, you know?
So there was nothing, you would look and there would be like cans, and it's like,
oh, you know, this is the luxury band.
It had like 30% of meat byproducts rather than four.
You know?
So that kind of stuff.
And it's just like, yeah.
It just reminds me there was, uh, a company, a UK company, I think it was,
they advertised quite heavily for a while.
I haven't seen it in a while, and they were selling something like.
They would basically dry freeze food.
Toni: Oh, free.
Yes.
You know, and they
Anke: basically said, well, this way it keeps the nutrients and yada yada.
And so there was some of the, they had some sort of supplements
that kind of like herbal stuff that you couldn't put in front of.
I tried.
That ones didn't really, I don't know.
Wasn't nobody, nobody got upset stomach or anything.
But I also didn't feel like there was nothing where I.
See a massive difference, but there was also no problem to fix, so Fair enough.
You know, but they basically, their whole philosophy was to, to say that
dry freezing process somehow keeps the nutrients and you just basically, because
that really solved the convenience, that addressed the convenience bit,
because it was basically like a, like, like dry, dry it, uh, parley or
something, you know, that kind of stuff.
And you just put water on it and then, you know, so what's your take on that?
Toni: So freeze dried is very high quality.
It's second best to raw food.
So they literally, those companies are taking their exact raw food formula and
putting it in, putting it through a freeze drying process and making it shelf stable.
No different than, you know, things you can go camping with or go to, you
know, the military goes to war with.
As far as.
Something to eat.
It's still very high quality.
It is one of the fastest growing categories, and the interesting thing
is it is the most expensive category.
Anke: Mm, isn't that wild?
Yeah.
But it is interesting, right?
Because it feels to me it's like, well, you know, I don't, I'm not on
trips all day every day, you know?
So if I can norm, like feed my normal more inconvenient, messy, or you know,
like, and then if I do go somewhere where I know I might not have a kitchen or I
can't mess around with the chicken legs basically, you know, then that might be
an alternative that will kind of tie me over when I'm not in my own own space.
Toni: Totally.
You can even get freeze dried goat milk if you like to, if you do goat smoke.
Um, shepherd Boy Farms is the brand for freeze dried goat milk, but I
always have a bag of freeze dried in my cupboard in case I forget to thaw a meal.
I.
Or at, like you said, it's perfect for traveling.
Um, but to, to, I don't, I, I mean people can do whatever they want, but I don't re
re recommend using it as your day in and day out meal because it's so expensive.
If you look at the feeding calculations, it's so expensive.
It's cheaper to feed raw.
Anke: Yeah.
I mean that's, and I think I, you know, that's the thing.
It's like you pay for the convenience.
And so yeah, if you Well, fair enough.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
Right.
So.
Find out more.
Where can people listen to the podcast?
Obviously we're gonna pop the links in the, in the show notes of course.
But um, yes.
Toni: So my website is tony unleashed.com
and it's Tony with an I.
My Instagram is Tony dot Unleashed and I'm on Facebook.
Um, and TikTok, and that's just Tony Unleashed.
So awesome.
Such a
Anke: cool name.
Toni: Thanks.
Thanks.
I was unleashed from retail 'cause I sold three out of my four stores, so
that's where the unleashed kind of.
Anke: Oh, that's interesting.
See, I'm thinking of leash and dog leash kind of thing, right?
Yeah.
It's a, it's aray on it, like flaring words.
Yes.
Very cool.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
I think this is a, this is a, it's a message that I sort of really kind
of wanna do anything I can to help get out because I've seen the big
difference in, in Lejo, I've seen how the other dogs thrive and uh, so
it's definitely, definitely worth it.
So thank you so much for coming and, and sharing.
Toni: You're welcome.
Thanks for having me.
Anke: Thank you.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.