Interior Integration for Catholics

In this episode, I invite you to explore and understand with me neuropsychiatrist Dr. Dan Siegel's Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB) and what IPNB can show us about psychological health. We review the triangle of well-being, the nature of secure attachments, and the basis for mental health from an IPNB perspective. We examine the characteristics of a healthy mind and how it functions, and the two signs that reliable indicate all psychological symptoms and mental dysfunction. We discuss the nine domains of integration, mindsight, and the healthy mind platter. I also share my exchange with Dr. Siegel about whether and how IPNB can be integrated with Catholicism.

Show Notes

  1. Summary:  In this episode, I invite you to explore and understand with me neuropsychiatrist Dr. Dan Siegel's Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB) and what IPNB can show us about psychological health.  We review the triangle of well-being, the nature of secure attachments, and the basis for mental health from an IPNB perspective.  We examine the characteristics of a healthy mind and how it functions, and the two signs that reliable indicate all psychological symptoms and mental dysfunction.  We discuss the nine domains of integration, mindsight, and the healthy mind platter, and I share my exchange with Dr. Siegel about whether and how IPNB can be integrated with Catholicism.  
  2. Lead in:  Today I want to share with you an approach to understanding ourselves and guiding ourselves toward health that I am really excited about, that I think has great potential to help us in our human formation as Catholics.
     
    1. We are together in this great adventure, this podcast, Interior Integration for Catholics, we are journeying together, and I am honored to be able to spend this time with you.  

    1. I am Dr. Peter Malinoski, clinical psychologist and passionate Catholic and together, we are taking on the tough topics that matter to you.  

    1. We bring the best of psychology and human formation and harmonize it with the perennial truths of the Catholic Faith.   

    1. Interior Integration for Catholics is part of our broader outreach, Souls and Hearts bringing the best of psychology and human formation grounded in a Catholic understanding of the human person to you and the rest of the world through our website soulsandhearts.com
  6.  
    1. We are continuing our series on how the best of secular psychological approaches define mental health, psychological well-being.  We started with Episode 89 on Polyvagal Theory and covered Positive Psychology, Psychodynamic Psychotherapy and Internal Family Systems in Episode 90.  

    1. Today's episode, number 92 is entitled "Understanding and Healing your Mind through IPNB"  and it's released on April 4, 2022.
  8.  
    1. We are going to unpack what IPNB is, what is says about our human condition and I will share with you an exchange I recently had with neuropsychiatrist Dr. Dan Siegel, who brought this whole integrative framework into being, about whether IPNB can be reconciled with Catholicism.  

    1. Stay with me for a really interesting deep dive into this fascinating way of understanding ourselves and others.  
  10. Interpersonal Neurobiology or IPNB
     
    1. Let's start by understanding what IPNB is.  Interpersonal neurobiology.  

    1. Breaking down the name interpersonal neurobiology
       
      1. Inter = between us, among us -- implies relationship.  Relational model.  
        1. Not just between you and me, but also between you and you -- inner relationships within you, inner relationships within me.  

      1. Personal -- very relational.  
        1. Inter-personal and intrapersonal
        2. IPNB is all about the way my deep inner experiences connect with your inner experiences 

      1. Neurobiology -- not just the field of neurobiology, but all the branches of scientifically studying how human development takes place and how we can promote well-being in our lives.  
        1. Neurobiology brings in all the embodied, physical dimension of our existence.  Our bodies, our brains, our whole nervous system and all of our embodied biology being, that what the neurobiology part refers to 

      1. Interpersonal neuro-biology or IPNB -- works to be a wholistic approach to the human person.  

    6. IPNB was developed in the 1990s by neuropsychiatrist Daniel J. Siegel who brought together more than 40 professionals, more than 40 experts from a wide range of scientific disciplines to discuss and demonstrate how the mind, brain, and relationships integrate to influence and change each other.  
    7. Questions that IPNB asks and addresses these questions, five questions standing out to me:
       
      1. What is the human mind?
    8.  
      1. How does the mind develop?
    9.  
      1. What does the human mind look like when it's doing really, really well, when it's functioning optimally?
    10.  
      1. How can we encourage, nurture and cultivate a healthy, strong mind?
    11.  
      1. How can we take what we've learned about the mind and find practical applications that make a real difference in our daily lives? 
        1. Guidance for how to live our lives
        2. Pointers for what may need to change in our thinking and behavior to help us live more fully.  
        3. Very practical -- not just academic ivory-tower, pie-in-the-sky speculation -- Daniel Siegel really wants IPNB to bring healing, growth and well-being to people.  I like that.  I'm into that. 

    13. What IPNB is Not
       
      1. Not a therapy.  
        1. Not a way of doing therapy.  Rather, a way of understanding that can inform different schools of therapy. 

      1. IPNB is not a discipline.  It's not a specific branch of knowledge. 

    16. Rather, IPNB is a framework that draws on all the different disciplines with a rigorous and structured approach to studying things – not just science – They all have a place in the framework.
       
      1. It's a consilient framework:  
        1. Consilience:  E. O. Wilson  Assessing the universal findings discovered and recognized as real or true across fields and disciplines

      1. The fields contributing to IPNB
         
        1. Anthropology
      2.  
        1. Art
      3.  
        1. Biology (developmental, evolution, genetics, zoology)
      4.  
        1. Chemistry
      5.  
        1. Cognitive Science
      6.  
        1. Computer Science
      7.  
        1. Contemplative Traditions
      8.  
        1. Developmental Psychopathology
      9.  
        1. Liberal Arts
      10.  
        1. Linguistics
      11.  
        1. Neuroscience
           
          1. Affective
        2.  
          1. Cognitive
        3.  
          1. Developmental
        4.  
          1. social
        5.  

        1. Mathematics
      13.  
        1. Medicine
      14.  
        1. Mental Health
      15.  
        1. Music
      16.  
        1. Physics
      17.  
        1. Poetry
      18.  
        1. Psychiatry
      19.  
        1. Psychology
           
          1. Cognitive
        2.  
          1. developmental
        3.  
          1. Volutionary
        4.  
          1. Experimental
        5.  
          1. of religion
        6.  
          1. Social
        7.  
          1. attachment theory
        8.  
          1. memory
        9.  

        1. Sociology
      21.  
        1. Systems Theory (chaos and complexity theory)
      22.  

      1. All of these disciplines, all of these fields of inquiriy contribute to IPNB findings
    19.  
      1. IPNB also seeks a common language for these disciplines to be able to share and discuss about these big topics:
         
        1. What is the human mind?
      2.  
        1. How does the mind develop?
      3.  
        1. How can we make a healthy, strong mind?
      4.  
        1. How can we take what we've learned about the mind and find practical applications that make a real difference in our daily lives.
      5.  

      1. Thus IPNB is a going for the big picture.  

      1. IPNB emphasizes a need for humility and openness in the work.  

    23. Definition:  Interpersonal neurobiology (IPNB): a consilient field that embraces all branches of science and now other disciplined ways of understanding reality, such as contemplative traditions and a liberal arts, as it seeks the common universal findings across independent ways of knowing in order to expand our understanding of the mind and well-being. p.506
  12. The Human Mind
     
    1. If we want a strong ordered mind, it helps to know what the mind actually is.  If we want mental well-being, it's really valuable to slow down and ask the question -- what is the human mind.  

    1. A central question for IPNB is "what is the human mind."
       
      1. The mind is rarely defined -- you know how important definitions are to me.  And the mind is often discussed but rarely defined.  
        1. Insert quotes about the importance of definitions
        2. Insert quotes about the mind.  

      1. When the mind is defined, most often defined as the output of the brain.
         
        1. Problem of Hippocrates:  Our mind comes only from our brain
           
          1. echoed by the famous psychologist William James in his highly influential 1890 book "Principles of Psychology"
        2.  

        1. The mind is essentially just the product of the brain.  The activity of the brain generates the activity of the mind.  So the mind's activity is solely the product of the brain's activity. 


      1. American neuropsychologist, neurobiologist and Nobel laureate Roger Sperry  -- Mental process cannot be reduced to brain mechanisms.  Even if they are dependent on them, it doesn’t make them the same.   
        1. Although the mind may depend on the activity of brain cells, the firing of neurons in the brain, the mind is not the same the same thing as the firing of neurons.  The mind is not the brain, and it's not just the products of nervous system activity. 

    1. According to Daniel Siegel and IPNB, the mind is a term that at a minimum includes what we’re familiar with when we think of mind.  
      1. mental activity that includes
         
        1. Consciousness
      2.  
        1. emotions
      3.  
        1. Mood
      4.  
        1. Thinking
      5.  
        1. information processing
      6.  
        1. problem-solving
      7.  
        1. decision making
      8.  
        1. Memory
      9.  
        1. Narrative
      10.  
        1. meaning-making
      11.  
        1. Intention
      12.  
        1. Belief
      13.  
        1. Hope
      14.  
        1. Attitudes
      15.  
        1. Assumptions
      16.  
        1. Desire
      17.  
        1. Longing
      18.  
        1. Dreams
      19.  
        1. Our subjective feeling of being alive.  

      21. all of these are mental activities which are beautiful, powerful descriptions of what people mean when they say mind. 
      22. The mind constructs its own experience of reality.
    2. Critical point:  the mind emanates from the interactions within the brain -- so there's the neurobiology -- the brain, the nervous system, the body -- but the mind is not just the product of neurobiology -- there's also the interpersonal aspect -- the mind also radiates from our internal relationships within ourselves and our relationships with other people.  There's the interpersonal part of interpersonal neurobiology. The mind encompasses both the embodied brain and our relationships.   
    3. Definition of Mind  from p. 507 The Developing Mind, 3rd Edition. :  
      1. The mind is a process that includes at least four fundamental aspects: (1) personal, subjective experience; (2) awareness; (3) information processing; and (4) a regulatory function that is an emergent, self-organizing, embodied, and relational process of the extended nervous system and relationships. 
      2. This facet of a core aspect of mind offers a working definition of "mind" as an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information. 
      3. In this perspective, the brains activities an important part of mind, but mind is broader than the brain and bigger than the individual body. The mind is fully embodied and fully relational.  
    4. Let's break that down.  In IPNB, the mind is a process.  The mind is not so much a thing, as it is a process, the activity within us that regulates the flow of both energy and information through its neurocircuitry, which is then shared and regulated between people through engagement, connection, and communication.
    5. Facets of the Mind
       
      1. Personal, subjective Experience -- the felt texture of life
    6.  
      1. Awareness or consciousness
    7.  
      1. Information Processing -- and that information processing can be conscious or not
      2. The emergent, self-organizing, embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information – flow happens within (embodied) and between (relational).  
    8. If you don't understand all that in the first go-round, that's OK.  You don't need to understand it all, there's come complexity here.  
    9. The critical thing to remember about your mind for our purposes is that your mind can change your brain and be changed by your brain -- your mind can change your relationships and your mind can be changed by your relationships -- and your brain can also be changed by your relationships.    
      1. Our attachment relationships experiences shape the structures in the brain that correlate with key features of our inner and inter mind as we carry these neuroplastic changes forward in life – open to new growth and learning – as they continue to shape our internal world and our interpersonal lives across the lifespan.
      2. Secure, healthy relationships can heal your mind and your brain.  You can see this in the neuro-electrical firing xand neurochemical activity in the brain with neurotransmitters, and also in the anatomy of the brain.
      3. Raissa Miller in her 2016 Article titled Interpersonal Neurobiology: Applications for the
Counseling Profession
  1. Finally, the mind can influence the brain and relationships. Consistent with characteristics of a complex system, the mind both emerges from and in turn influences the functioning of the brain and relationships. How one focuses attention affects neural structure and function. Furthermore, through processes not yet fully understood — perhaps through resonance circuitry or mirror neurons — the mental processes of one person can influence the mental processes of another person.
  2. The Triangle of Well-Being  -- Imagine a triangle with three vertices or corners.  One vertex is The Brain, a second vertex is the Mind, and the third vertex is Relationship.  So we have a triangle, and at the top, where the point is, we have relationship, and at another corner, we have brain and at the other corner we have mind.   
    1. The Mind -- we've been covering that:
    2. The Brain -- the embodied mechanism of energy and information flow
       
      1. Definition:  Brain: here are viewed as the extended nervous system distributed throughout the entire body and intimately interwoven with the physiology of the body as a whole. It is the embodied neural mechanism that shapes the flow of energy and information. p. 502
         
        1. Not just the grey matter inside our skull but our whole nervous system.  

        1.  Justin Sonnenburg, Erica Sonnenburg on May 1, 2015 Scientific American Gut Feelings–the "Second Brain" in Our Gastrointestinal Systems .  The enteric nervous system is often referred to as our body’s second brain. There are hundreds of million of neurons connecting the brain to the enteric nervous system, the part of the nervous system that is tasked with controlling the gastrointestinal system. This vast web of connections monitors the entire digestive tract from the esophagus to the anus. The enteric nervous system is so extensive that it can operate as an independent entity without input from our central nervous system, although they are in regular communication.  

      1. Energy and information flow is what the embodied brain is all about 
    4. Relationships -- the sharing of energy and information flow between people
       
      1. Energy and information flow between people
    5.  
      1. Energy and information are shared in relationships.  

      1. Integration – the differentiation and linkage of parts of a system – within the relationship is essential to understanding resonance, which is different from mirroring or giving up your individual needs and sense of differentiation
    7.  
      1. PART model of verbal and nonverbal relationships -- Presence, Attunement, Resonance, and Trust.  
        1. Presence:  Openness; awareness of present moment experience:  
          1. Presence is the portal to integration; an open, receptive awareness of the unfolding of moment-to-moment experience
          2. the opposite of presence is unintentional mind-wandering
        2. Attunement:  Focus of attention on the internal world of self or other
           
          1. Internal Attunement:  Focusing of attention on my internal world 

          1. Interpersonal Attunement:  Focusing of attention on the internal world of another
        4.  
          1. if a parent is attuned to the child’s mind, much better outcome than if just reacting to the child’s behavior.  

          1. Mirror neurons may be activated in attunement
        6.  
        7. Resonance:  Being shaped by another
           
          1. Next step -- interpersonal attunement allows for two individuals to resonate with one another,
             
            1. A deeper sense of connection, of being with each other.  

            1. To feel felt by one another.  

            1. As the two are resonating, feeling felt by one another, joined in relationship they are still separate.  They are not fused, there is no loss of individual identity.  You are still you when you are in relationship with me, and I am still me.  This is really important, that the individual, differentiated nature of each person is not lost.  
              1. Two tuning forks, at the same frequency.  


        9. Trust:  A deep sense of openness and reliability
           
          1. States of safety vs. states of  threat
        10.  
          1. Trust creates a sense of receptivity 
            1. Social engagement system is turned on
            2. Integration allows us to differentiate streams of energy, freeing us from default-mode processing dominating our experience in the moment
               
              1. New ways of thinking, imagining, considering
            3.  
              1. Allows our faculty of imagination to develop.  



      1. Connection refers to a process of mutual resonance occurring between two individuals, leading to attunement and a sense of we
    9.  
      1. Ruptures are inevitable in relationships, and they can be thought of as opportunities for repair and the deepening of connection
    10.  
      1. Four critical concepts in IPNB:  Empathy, compassion, kindness and forgiveness
         
        1. Empathy has many facets, including feeling the feelings of another, perspective-taking, and cognitive understanding
           
          1. Empathy: the capacity to make a map of another's mental state that includes at least the five functions of 
            1. emotional resonance
            2. perspective taking
            3. empathic understanding
            4. empathic joy, and 
            5. empathic concern. 

          1. For most individuals, empathy is a requirement for compassion. Integration enables empathic connection to be harnessed without losing differentiation and fusing with another's experience.  p.504
        3.  

        1. Compassion: The way in which we perceive the suffering of another, imagine how to help, and then take action to alleviate the suffering
           
          1. Compassion: the capacity to sense suffering, to imagine what might be done to reduce that suffering, and to take effective action for that purpose. Compassion can be directed towards one's inner experience – sometimes called "self-compassion" – as well as toward others in what is sometimes called "other-directed" compassion. These two directions in the flow of compassion can be called "inner compassion" and "inter compassion." p. 503
        2.  

        1. Kindness: Acting with no expectation of getting something in return; honoring and supporting one another’s vulnerabilities -- sounds a lot like the Christian concept of charity; others may think of this as altruism
      4.  
        1. Forgiveness can be thought of as giving up all hope for a better past; acceptance of what was.  


    12. The brain, the mind, and relationships are all critical elements of the triangle of well-being.  
  3. Secure attachments
     
    1. Siegel in "The Developing Mind," 3rd Ed.  p. 225:  Attachment at its core is based on parental sensitivity and responsivity to the child's signals, which allow for collaborative parents-child communication. Contingent communication gives rise to secure attachment and is characterized by a collaborative give-and-take of signals between the members of the pair. Contingent communication relies on the alignment of internal experiences, or states of mind, between the child and caregiver. This mutually sharing, mutually influencing set of interactions – this emotional attunement or mental state residents – is the essence of healthy, secure attachment.
       
      1. Neural networks are activated and shaped by these relational experiences
         
        1. Our relational experiences reshape not only our minds but our brains.  



    1. The four Ss of building a secure attachment:  Feeling Seen, Safe, Soothed, and Secure
       
      1. Seen  
        1. I feel that my needs are being accurately perceived by the other
        2. My mind is seen beneath my behavior

      1. Safe
         
        1. I feel protected from harm, from danger
      2.  
        1. The other person is not a source of fear
      3.  

      1. Soothed
         
        1. I can be reliably comforted and calmed by the other in times of stress
      2.  
        1. Ruptures are readily repaired
      3.  

      1. Secure
         
        1. I am able to explore my environment
      2.  
        1. I can go back to the other as a safe base
      3.  


  6.  What is the basis for health or mental well-being  -- the integration of the mind.  
    1. Daniel Siegel proposes that integration of the mind is the basis for health.  
      1. I made this argument way back in episode 15 of this podcast, long before I was all that familiar with IPNB.  
      2. Supported by more than 20 years of research now. 
    2. Raisa Miller helps us break this down.  Mental Well-Being Mental well-being, from an IPNB perspective, is defined in terms of integration. 
      1. Functionally distinct components within the complex mind system differentiate (i.e., specialize)
         
        1. Each component has a unique role in the system.   

      3. and then link with other components of the system to form a greater whole -- but you don't blend them.   
      4. The metaphor of a fruit salad versus a fruit smoothie is often used to illustrate integration. 
      5. Each ingredient in a fruit salad maintains its unique quality (differentiating) 
      6. while also combining (linking) to make a new, more complex dish (an “integrated” fruit salad).
      7. Optimal organization depends on linking differentiated parts of the system (integration) you do not have the differences among those parts disappear (not homogenization).  Coherence instead. 
    3. Integration is defined as the linkage of differentiated elements. The mind's process of linking differentiated parts (distinct modes of information processing) into a functional whole is postulated to be the fundamental mechanism of both. Without integration, chaos, rigidity, or both ensue. Integration is both a process and a structural dimension, and can be examined, for example, in the functional and anatomic studies of the nervous system. p. 506
       
      1. Considerable evidence indicates that the mind is the self-organizing, emergent embodied relational process that utilizes the differentiation and linkage of aspects of the system the mind is in. When that goes well – health arises.  When it goes poorly, chaos or rigidity or both rise up.
    4.  
      1. When a system is not optimally self-organizing, it veers toward
         
        1. Rigidity -- everything seems predictable
           
          1. Dorsal vagal shutdown, the freezing and numbing out state like in dissociation
             
            1. we discussed this in Episode 89 on polyvagal theory
          2.  
            1. This leads to rigidity
          3.  

          1. Examples 
            1. Extreme example would be hysterical paralysis
            2. Another example --  a deep, major depression


        1. Chaos -- everything seems completely unpredictable
           
          1. PTSD symptoms
             
            1. Flashbacks
          2.  
            1. Nightmares
          3.  

          1. Panic attacks
        3.  

        1. Or both -- e.g. bipolar disorder
           
          1. Depressive episode -- rigidity.  

          1. Manic episode -- chaos

        1. Daniel Siegel:  Every symptom of every disorder of the DSM-5 can be framed in terms of chaos or rigidity
        2. "Human suffering can be summed up in chaos and rigidity."  
        3. Health is found in the internal integration, where there is neither chaos nor rigidity.  

    6. When you improve self-organization within a system leading to harmony and integration, including the mind, you find five qualities.  Acronym FACES
       
      1. Optimal Self organization involves the integration of elements of the system leading to harmony described as a FACES flow
    7.  
      1. Individuals operating at greater levels of integration are more open to possibilities and flexible in response to their natural proclivities -- this is described as a FACES flow.  

      1. FACES flow your mind is:
         
        1. Flexible -- your mind can think outside the box, be innovative and come up with new and original ideas and solutions to problems, your mind can be imaginative, and creative.  Flexible
      2.  
        1. Adaptive -- your mind can adjust to new situations, change course as needed, roll with the punches and handle the various challenges and demands that life throws at you.  

        1. Coherent -- your mind stays clear, lucid, orderly inside, and you have the full use of your intellect and reason.  You can think logically and sensibly
      4.  
        1. Energized -- your mind is alert, active, dynamic, and animated, with stamina and vitality
      5.  
        1. Stable -- your mind is balanced, calm, steady and you have a sense of being solidly grounded and secure.  


      1. Nine domains of integration list them.  
        1. Consciousness – differentiating the knowing from the knowns of what we are aware of. Knowns and unknowns
           
          1. Awareness of the body, mental/emotional, relational, and outside world. Openness to things as they are
        2.  
        3.  Bilateral – the differentiated functions of the left and right hemispheres. 
          1. Left hemisphere is logical and linear, very literal, verbal
          2. Right side is more creative, metaphoric, and symbolic, nonlinear, intuitive, nonverbal
        4. Vertical – linking the body’s signals and the lower neural regions of the brainstem and limbic area to the higher cortical regions.
           
          1. Gut, heart, and lungs all have neural networks that seek to communicate with the brain. Too many people are disconnected from the awareness from our bodies. 

        6. Memory – linking the differentiated elements of implicit memory to the autobiographical and factual experience of explicit memory.
           
          1. Implicit and explicit memory integration. 

          1. When traumas become implicit memory, a schema, we are stuck in the past. 

          1. To integrate memory, we make implicit memories explicit and weave them into our narrative, the story of our lives in a coherent and meaningful way
        9.  
        10. Narrative – making sense of memory and experience such that one finds meaning in events that have occurred.
        11. State – respecting the differentiated states of mind that make up the wide array of clusters of memory, thought, behavior, and action that are the nature of our multi-layered selves.
           
          1. we are multiple selves sharing a body. Three parts: We need to learn to honor our states (intrastate), interstate, honor that we have different needs at the same time and we need to pay attention to that, and interpersonal states, maintaing my own states while in relation with others.   

          1. In IFS language, these states are somewhat analogous to parts.  

        14. Interpersonal – honoring one another’s inner experience and linking in respectful communication. -- involves nurturing.  Not fusing, being separate but near, being with.  
        15.  Temporal – the capacity to represent ‘time’ or change in life and reflect on this ‘passage of time’ (e.g. life versus death).
           
          1. Making maps of time. Connected to narrative - we seek certainty, but change is the only constant. We also become aware of our eventual death. 

        17. Identity – the sense of agency and coherence potentially associated with feelings of belonging.
           
          1. The identity of a bodily self expands beyond the boundary of the skin - we sense our interconnection time, place, and people. Integration of integration
        18.  

  7. Mindsight
     
    1. Mindsight-the ability to see the internal world of self and others  p. 54
       
      1. Mindsight is likely to be essential and healthy relationships of many kinds
    2.  
      1. Mindsight permits integrative communication in which individuals are honored for their differences and compassionate connections are cultivated that link one mind to another
    3.  
      1. Daniel Siegel proposes that interpersonal integration promotes the growth of integrative fibers in the brain. The neural circuits linking differentiating areas to one another are the regulatory and social circuits of the brain. 54
    4.  

    1. Three Components of Mindsight -- insight, empathy and integration. 
      1. Insight: Reflecting with awareness by focusing attention on the internal, subjective world of one’s own interior mental experience, including feelings, thoughts, memories
      2. Empathy: Sensing the inner experience of another within one's own mind; forming a mental map of another; feeling felt by an empathic other is the foundation of a supportive relationship
      3. Integration: The differentiation or specialization, and, ultimately, linkage of systems including the brain and interpersonal relationships; without integration, chaos, rigidity, or both emerge, resulting in a state of mental dysfunction; with integration, harmony emerges with flexibility, adaptability, coherence, stability, and energy (a FACES flow)
    2. Mindsight:  the ability to see the internal world of self and others, not just to observe behavior. It is the way we not only sense but also shape energy and information flow within the triangle of mind, brain, and relationships and move that flow toward integration. Using mindsight, integration made visible is kindness and compassion. p.506
    3. Integration made visible is kindness, compassion, and well-being
  9. How do we get there.  Lots of recommendations from IPNB.  Lots of models and acronym.
     
    1. Can check out Dr. Dan Siegel's website at https://drdansiegel.com/   Lots of resources there if IPNB resonates with you.  Books and courses and blogs and videos and all kinds of things, most of it free, and he's a very good speaker and teacher.  He's done a lot to help parents raise very young children, informed by the science of IPNB and to help parents and their adolescent children understand and connect with each other.  
      1. Wheel of awareness -- A reflective practice that integrates consciousness using the metaphor of a wheel in which the hub represents the knowing of being aware and the room contains the elements of the knowns, from the first five senses to mental activity such as emotions, thoughts, and memory. p.511
      2. other resources 
      3. I'm going to focus on one resource today, one of many resources

  11. Healthy Mind Platter
     
    1. I'm going to focus on one particular element.  Healthy Mind Platter  In 2011, the USDA change from a food pyramid (nearly two decades) to a food plate.  Inspired David Rock and Daniel Siegel to design the "Healthy Mind Platter"
  12.  
    1. The Healthy Mind Platter has seven daily essential mental activities necessary for optimum mental health. 
      1. These seven daily activities make up the full set of “mental nutrients” that your brain and relationships need to function at their best. 
      2. By engaging every day in each of these servings, you promote integration in your life and enable your brain to coordinate and balance its activities. These essential mental activities strengthen your brain’s internal connections and your connections with other people and the world around you.
    2. We’re not suggesting specific amounts of time for this recipe for a healthy mind, as each individual is different, and our needs change over time too. 
      1. The point is to become aware of the full spectrum of essential mental activities, and as with essential nutrients, make sure that at least every day we are bringing the right ingredients into our mental diet, even if for just a bit of time. 
      2. List of the Health Mind Platter elements:
         
        1. Sleep Time
      3.  
        1. Physical Time
      4.  
        1. Downtime
      5.  
        1. Focused Time
      6.  
        1. Playtime
      7.  
        1. Time in
      8.  
        1. Connecting Time
      9.  
        1. (repeat)
      10.  
    3. Components of the Health Mind platter -- drawing from various sources by Dan Seigel and also a video by Marie Holowaychuk  Psychotherapy Networker article The Heathy Mind Platter May 2020
       
      1. Sleep Time
         
        1. When we give the brain the rest it needs, we consolidate learning and recover from the experiences of the day.
      2.  
        1. This is important for lots of reasons, especially because sleep directly affects inflammation in the brain. It’s also critical because when we get seven to nine hours of quality sleep, the toxins secreted by active neurons during our waking hours are cleaned up. Without enough sleep, we’re likely to have increased brain inflammation and decreased ability to focus, remember, stabilize our mood, and even process calories
      3.  
        1. memory consolidation and processing, learning and task integration, emotional regulation and positivity, insight, creativity and problem-solving
      4.  

      1. Physical Time 
        1. When we move our bodies, aerobically if medically possible, we strengthen the brain in many ways.
        2. It’s easy to become a couch potato when we’re spending so much time in front of screens, so we need this time when we really focus on moving our body. Therapists can consider doing this in between sessions or even with clients.
        3. Helps to maintain brain health and plasticity
        4. increases learning and memory
        5. improves cognitive and executive functions
        6. enables us to focus in spite of distractions
        7. benefits of reducing stress, anxiety, and depression

      1. Downtime
         
        1. When we are non-focused, without any specific goal, and let our mind wander or simply relax, we help the brain recharge.
      2.  
        1. This is space to not do anything specific and just chill out. Our minds need this. As opposed to moments when we find ourselves unintentionally getting distracted, down time involves intentionally letting our minds wander. This might include watching a show or listening to music, drawing on a pad of paper, or simply playing with water in the sink as you do the dishes.
      3.  
        1. we let our mind simply wander or relax
      4.  
        1. downtime allows our brains to recharge permits integration of previous thoughts and experiences
      5.  
        1. we get a generation of new insights because it enables integration across the left and right hemispheres
      6.  
        1. struggle with a complex problem, but when you start feeling anxious or stressed or hit the wall, distract yourself from with from the problem by doing something completely unrelated 

        1. sudden insight often follows
      8.  

      1. Focus Time:
         
        1. When we closely focus on tasks in a goal-oriented way, we take on challenges that make deep connections in the brain.
      2.  
        1. This is time spent focusing on something external with discipline, like reading a book. Say to yourself, “For this half hour, I’m not going to be distracted by the news or anything else.” Research suggests that when we focus our attention like this, we release a number of substances, including BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which enhance brain growth. When we have a singular focus of attention, we learn more, remember more, and enjoy the experience more.
      3.  
        1. Paying close attention to some project 
          1. you’re not multitasking, instead you are focusing in a goal oriented way, thinking efficiently and effectively
          2. you’re not getting distracted by all sorts of other things, phone and email alerts are off.  
          3. Really focusing attention on just one thing a time
          4. Can come with a feeling of success, of mastery because you were able to really accomplish something, to do something new. 
          5. Focus time gets the brain to secrete to chemicals to allow the neurons which are firing to strengthen their connections to one another.
          6. This helps your attention and concentration -- helps develop your prefrontal cortex and your sharpens and clarifies your mind.  

        1. Cal Newport's Book Deep Work taught me so much about this component of the healthy mind platter -- and others as well.  Highly recommended, with very practical tips that have helped me a lot in producing this podcast.   

      1. Playtime
         
        1. When we allow ourselves to be spontaneous or creative, playfully enjoying novel experiences, we help make new connections in the brain.
      2.  
        1. This doesn’t refer to sports but to doing something that allows you to laugh and be spontaneous—without judgments or feeling that there’s a right or wrong way to do it. The notion here is to engage in an activity, perhaps with others, in which the enjoyment and creative unfolding of the moment is the focus. Too often adults lose this sense of playfulness. To cope with this pandemic, we need to keep our humor and our vitality alive and well!
      3.  
        1. this can be thought of being playful of letting novelty failure experience that letting you be spontaneous often with a sense of humor and the light. Children do this naturally, adolescents less so, and in adulthood we get very serious so it’s important to have playtime. Because when you allow the brain to make these new combinations and create a sense of safety and a willingness to expand which are used to doing to expand beyond the familiar. This is a playfulness actually keeps the brain young and keeps the connections in the brain growing. That’s playtime.
      4.  
        1. Forget all about work and other commitments, and be social in an unstructured way flexible emotional responses to unexpected events.
      5.  
        1. Practicing spontaneous and novel motor and social skills, facilitates learning creativity and memory
      6.  
        1. stimulates dopamine release, which helps to establish new neuronal pathways in the brain
      7.  
        1. game night with friends or coworkers, going outside to build a snowman, adult coloring books
      8.  

      1. Time in
         
        1. When we quietly reflect internally, focusing on sensations, images, feelings and thoughts, we help to better integrate the brain.
      2.  
        1. This is time you may already spend engaged in a formal mindfulness practice, like yoga or meditation. Inward reflection can include the three pillars of focusing attention, opening awareness, and cultivating kind intention.
      3.  
        1. This is when we are able to quietly able to reflect internally
      4.  
        1. focusing on sensations, images, feelings, and thoughts in the present moment
      5.  
        1. focusing on acceptance of the process, rather than the content
      6.  
        1. balance of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems
      7.  
        1. improved attention and more flexible Prospectives about life
      8.  
        1. better control emotions and stress
      9.  
        1. improving compassion and empathy towards our self and others
      10.  

      1. Connecting Time
         
        1. When we connect with other people, ideally in person, and when we take time to appreciate our connection to the natural world around us, we activate and reinforce the brain's relational circuitry
      2.  
        1. This is time you put into intentionally connecting with people, even if you can’t be in their immediate physical presence. This relational time involves communicating not only with other people, but also with nature. Finding time to connect with people and the planet can help with the sense of isolation we may feel these days.
      3.  
        1. When we are able to connect with other people, ideally in person
      4.  
        1. taking time to appreciate our connections to the world around us
      5.  
        1. improves relational circuitry in the brain, and benefits the cardiovascular, endocrine, and immune systems
      6.  
        1. a buffering effect in on stress by helping us to have a positive outlook, form secure attachments, and have efficient restorative behaviors in times of stress
      7.  
        1. make time to connect with others, especially your spouse, your partner, family, and friends
      8.  
        1. plan outings, date nights, or activities into your weekly routine, to make sure that your personal connections are maintained
      9.  

      1. Review of components
         
        1. Sleep Time
      2.  
        1. Physical Time
      3.  
        1. Downtime
      4.  
        1. Focused Time
      5.  
        1. Playtime
      6.  
        1. Time in
      7.  
        1. Connecting Time
      8.  

  13. How to connect Interpersonal Neurobiology with Catholicism?  Harmonizing.
     
    1. I'm in a six-month intensive course with Dan Siegel, it is his Comprehensive Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB) Course and as part of that course, we have Q&A sessions.
  14.  
    1. I was really interested in how open the IPNB model might be to Catholicism -- I wanted his thoughts on that.  

    1. Remember that IPNB draws from so many disciplines, and not just scientific ones, but any discipline with a rigorous approach to learning, including the liberal arts, poetry, and even contemplative traditions. 

    1. And I like Dan Siegel -- he is very approachable, open, receptive, and I have a deep sense that he has a big heart, a lot of concern for our human condition, a genuine compassion for his neighbor.  Not just an academic sense.   

    1. So I asked Dr. Siegel.  I sent him this question:  

    1. Q. How does the integrative, multidisciplinary framework of IPNB, which draws from the findings of so many fields, consider the wisdom (based on divine revelation) that revealed religions (i.e., Judaism, Christianity, Islam) claim to offer about human well-being to their followers – or is that way of “knowing” considered “unscientific” or “not rigorous” and therefore not invited into the IPNB framework? Re-read it 

    1. And he responded -- 

A: Thank you for the question, Peter. Initially, IPNB was created through the weaving of western-based 
academic disciplines from math and physics to biology and psychology to sociology and anthropology. It 
began with an effort to ask, what is the mind and how are mind and brain related to one another? As 
the notion of consilience later became clear, the approach broadened to include any disciplined way of 
understanding the nature of reality. For that reason, systematic “disciplined” ways of exploring reality, 
questioning what emerges, and then re-considering what is found in an attempt to build a broad 
framework for understanding includes the ancient wisdom traditions of Indigenous knowledge and 
contemplative insights. In meeting with religious leaders from the faiths you have mentioned, the 
plane-of-possibility view as the “generator of diversity” seems to fit with the deepest aspects of their 
teachings, part of what Aldous Huxley and Huston Smith might have referred to as perennial wisdom. I 
have also met with some teachers, not leaders, but local teachers, in various faiths who say their view is the only true view, and that to try to find a consilience across ways of knowing, from various religions and from science, is an assault on their unique and privileged “knowing of what the truth is.” In this case, that mental stance of absolute belief in the veracity of their perspective is not a part of a consilient mindset, and so it is difficult to see how, though their views would be welcomed to be examined, not just accepted because the individual believes them to be true, people with such a viewpoint would xcollaborate in looking for common ground. I hope this response makes sense.
  1. Reread the bolded part. 
  2. I thought his response was gracious and I appreciate Dan Siegel's directness and honesty.  I was not surprised by the content.  The way I interpret this is that there's not room in IPNB from Dan Siegel's point of view for one to be Catholic and participate in the search for common ground.  No revealed religion's tenets could be included because they are not open to being challenged, questioned and discarded if they don't seem to line up with the findings of the other disciplines.  That's one of his non-negotiable principles for IPNB.  So his consilient framework doesn't draw from all available knowledge. 
  3. So Dan Siegel and I disagree about epistemology -- how you know things.   For him, divine revelation is not a valid source of knowing that can inform IPNB.  For me, it divine revelation is not only essential, it's the starting point.  It's the reference point, like the North Star.  And that's likely to lead to disagreements between Dan Seigel and me about metaphysics.  But I don't ignore the valuable work of DNA discoverers James Watson and Francis Crick who described the beauty of the double helix structure of DNA--  I don't ignore their work or discount it  because both Watson and Crick displayed intense anti-Catholic bigotry.  So I'm certainly not going to ignore the really valuable work of Dan Siegel in IPNB -- let's draw the good from it. And I've not seen anything that condemns or criticizes Catholicism from Dan Siegel.  He's not Catholic, I don't expect him to embrace the Church's teaching.  Let's not be afraid of the work of IPNB and other secular approaches, let's conform it to what we already know to be true by faith.  
  4. So the upshot of all this is, for those that really want to ground human formation and psychology in a Catholic understanding of the human person, for us Catholics to not only be Catholic with a capital C, but also with a small c.  "catholic" meaning universal.  We find the good in all these secular approaches and harmonize it with our faith.  Not the other way around.  And there is no tension between authentic science and the Faith. 
    1. CCC Paragraph 159:  "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."
  5. That's what I am here to help you do.  To take the best of secular approaches to science, like IPNB and ground them in an authentic Catholic understanding of  the human person.  That's what I am all about, that is what this podcast Interior Integration for Catholics is all about that is what Souls and Hearts is all about.
     
    1. I accept the authority of the Catholic Church to teach definitively in the areas of faith and morals.  That's my starting point.  I hold those truths to be indeed true.  I am open to the possibility and the potential that I have for misunderstanding those truths.  I have misunderstood some of them before, and I may well be misunderstanding some of them now.  But one main reason for divine revelation is to show us those truths that we could never have figured out using the light of natural reason alone.  I really do believe that the reason our Lord came when he did in human history is because the Greeks had gotten about as far as natural reason would take them in philosophy and the Romans had gotten about as far as natural reason would take them in law.  

    1. So my mission, my calling is to bring you the best of psychological and human formation resources firmly rooted in a Catholic anthropology.  

    1. This is entirely consistent with the teaching of the Church as expressed in Vatican II, in paragraph 62 of The Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World: "in pastoral care, sufficient you should be made, not only of theological principles, but also of the findings of secular sciences, especially psychology and sociology; in this way the faithful will be brought to a purer and more mature living of the faith"
  8.  
  9. Closing
     
    1. Really excited about next month's episode -- Episode 93, coming out on May 1, 2022, where I will be offering you three experiential exercises that integrate what we've been learning in episode 89 on polyvagal theory, episode 90 on Positive Psychology, Psychodynamic Psychotherapy and Internal Family Systems and this current episode, 92 on Interpersonal Neurobiology -- all these secular approaches, I'm going to be drawing from them in these experiential exercises to really help you know yourself better, understand your needs, find where you may have internal disconnects, and also get some direction on what the next steps are.  So look for that on Monday, May 1, new episodes come out the first Monday of the month.  

    1. Weekly emails -- been doing a whole series on enemies, lots of surprising things on enemies.  

    1. Check out our Litanies of the Heart -- really excited to just have released these.  The last Episode 92 was all about the Litany of the Closed Heart, the Litany of the Fearful Heart and the Litany of the Wounded Heart.  So much great feedback.  Soulsandhearts.com/lit.  

    1. Conversation Hours You are a listener to this podcast, and in that sense, you are with me.  I am also with you!  Remember, can call me on my cell any Tuesday or Thursday from 4:30 PM to 5:30 PM Eastern Time for our regular conversation hours.  I've set that time aside for you.  317.567.9594.  (repeat) or email me at crisis@soulsandhearts.com. 

    1. If you really like this podcast, if you are finding it to be of great benefit to you -- consider the Resilient Catholics Community.  Waiting list is open for The Resilient Catholics Community at Soulsandhearts.com/rcc for our June 2022  So much information there and videos. 

    1. I want to invite you to the Resilient Catholics Community
       
      1. The Why of the RCC --  It's all about loving with your whole heart -- all of your being.  Getting over all the natural level issues that hold you back from tolerating being loved and from loving God and others.  

      1. Who
         
        1. Who is the Resilient Catholics Community for?
           
          1. It's for you. If you really are into this podcast, if these ways of conceptualizing the human person and integration and human formation and resilience are appealing to you, then the Resilient Catholics community, the RCC may be for you.  

          1. I am looking for listeners who want to be with other like-minded Catholics on the journey, on this adventure of human formation with me.  

          1. Who deeply desire a personal, intimate relationship with God and with Mary, a real human, close connection
        4.  
          1. And who recognize they have some natural-level impediments to that deep relating
        5.  
          1. and  who are willing to make sacrifices in time, effort, money, humility and courage to grow in human formation and overcome natural-level impediments to being loved and to loving
        6.  
          1. What want to shore up their natural foundation for the spiritual life, because grace perfects nature.  

          1. Who want to become saints.  

          1. Who are willing to be pioneers at the cutting edge in this adventure of human formation.  Really at the tip of the spear, the first explorers of this human formation ground for laymen and laywomen.  


        1. First of all the RCC is My Tribe, my people, bringing together two groups into one
           
          1. First, faithful, orthodox, serious Catholics who are wounded and suffering and know it
        2.  
          1. And Second, who are psychologically minded (or at least want to be psychologically minded), who believe in the unconscious and who embrace the unity and multiplicity of the human person
        3.  
          1. And who want to see through the lens of a core self and parts.  Unity and multiplicity make sense.  


        1. Go to Soulsandhearts.com/rcc and register for the June wait list.  I'd like to journey with you.  



 
  1. Patron and Patroness

What is Interior Integration for Catholics?

The mission of this podcast is the formation of your heart in love and for love, Together, we shore up the natural, human foundation for your spiritual formation as a Catholic. St. Thomas Aquinas asserts that without this inner unity, without this interior integration, without ordered self-love, you cannot enter loving union with God, your Blessed Mother, or your neighbor. Informed by Internal Family Systems approaches and grounded firmly in a Catholic understanding of the human person, this podcast brings you the best information, the illuminating stories, and the experiential exercises you need to become more whole in the natural realm. This restored human formation then frees you to better live out the three loves in the two Great Commandments – loving God, your neighbor, and yourself. Check out the Resilient Catholics Community which grew up around this podcast at https://www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc.