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Today, we're listening to a record from the most revolutionary jazz musician of

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the 20th century. Actually, he's the most revolutionary jazz musician

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of all time, none other than the legendary Charlie Parker.

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This is Charlie Parker with Strings.

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I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin.

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And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast.

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Music explored, brought to you today by Open Studio.

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Go to openstudiojazz.com for all your jazz lesson

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needs. Peter, I'm gonna set the scene.

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Okay. Imagine you're a young musician in 1949.

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Your favorite style of music is bebop Yes and your
favorite bebop musician is coming out with a new album.

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Or is he coming out of a swimming pool with Ethel Merman?

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No, he's coming out like this.

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Pizzicato.

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Ooh, come on

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now! Now he's back in the swimming pool, coming up and with Very Hollywood.

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Yeah. Very Hollywood, this album. Synchronized, the original synchronized swimming.

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For sure. Oh, so great. Harp?

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And swing!

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Obra. Or is that English horn? Hey. Is it English horn? I

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Modulation.

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Oh, beautiful.

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Man, every phrase Oh, my God the Bird plays

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is just this, like, amazing legacy of melody.

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Stan Freeman on piano. Killing it! Man, killing
it. Not easy to come in after the Charlie Parker

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solo, is it?

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Back, double time.

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Could you imagine hearing Charlie Parker do double time, and then like, "Ah, here's

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my take on it"?

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Solid. Holds his own. Yeah.

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I'm gonna put it out here right now, just that solo on
Just Friends Which the opening track He plays three solos.

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Plays three solos. Which is amazing. Plays three solos through the whole thing.

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Three minutes of Charlie Parker solo Yeah which is, you know, incredible.

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But just that track, just his, his improvisation, is

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the equivalent of going to music conservatory.

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Yeah. If you just studied that Ooh for four years Yeah and figured
out what he was doing and how he was doing it and what he was

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playing over and... I mean, that would teach you You still wouldn't be him.

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You wouldn't be him! But you'd learn a lot.

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But you'd learn You'd learn a lot a hell of a lot about
how to improvise, about how melody works, phrasing.

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We're talking about one of the great geniuses Blues
in music history, the great Charlie "Yardbird"

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Parker, born August 29th, 1920. Kansas City, Missouri, is in

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the house today, Peter. That's right. In a lot of different
ways. I'm so stoked we're listening to this album, Charlie

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Parker with Strings, one of the greatest bebop
albums, even though it's not a bebop album.

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It's not a bebop album, and there's, like, 17 different versions of it that all

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look close to this ! Yeah. But not- there's that.
But, I mean, it's kind of a phenomenon, right?

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When we talk about Charlie Parker with Strings, this has been repackaged many

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times. This is kind of... Well, this is a CD, but this is some

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cool, like, Japanese, um, editions I used to buy, where they'd make it look

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like the original LP, that was very short, with only six tunes on it.

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Well, this is Well, no, it wasn't even an LP. What was that called, like an EP or...

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It's not, I mean Yeah, I mean, you know, before the mid-'50s
Yeah albums were very... They weren't really a thing, right?

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No, no. So like when we, we, we addressed
this when we did our Louis Armstrong episode,

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there weren't any albums back then. Right.

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It was just all these singles, right?

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All of these And even that, because of the, the
78s that were, were limited in time, three and a

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half minutes or something Yeah depending on how dense they were.

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Very, very short records that you would have to get, and so this was still in that

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era. Yeah. So this was... It started off as, like you said, a collection of six
songs Yeah that were all about two and a half to three and a half minutes long.

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Uh, it was released by And that was all, that was all
the 19- what we're calling the 1949 sessions, right?

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The first six tracks on what we now know as Charlie Parker with Strings.

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What's been released on CD is these 14 tracks. The first six were recorded in 1949.

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They were so successful that they recorded eight more in a session the year later.

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Yeah. It's on the Mercury record label, produced
by Norman Granz, who I'm sure we'll talk

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about. Norman Granz loved to repackage his albums, by the way.

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He was, like, the original influencer that would, like, repackage content again and

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again. Right, yeah. He would take this album and
do it, like, three more times with three different

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kind of titles and everything. Very, very interesting Now, this actually says producer Clef
Records. I wonder if that was one of the repackagings Oh, interesting or if that was the original.

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Uh, yeah, no, I have here on my, on my show notes, Mercury, but

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maybe that's Yeah I don't know. A, a subsidiary,
LLC of... It's all good. Nobody cares.

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So produced by Norman Granz. The rhythm section of this is, is pretty

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awesome. Oh, man. Ray Brown on the bass So good Buddy Rich on
the drums. You know, they were also playing a lot at this time

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with Bud Powell. Yeah. And so to be on this album. They
were playing a lot with, with Charlie Parker, too.

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Uh, and then, like you said, Stan Freeman on piano.

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I don't know Stan's work other than this, honestly, if I'm being Well,
you can see him a little, but we'll put a picture up here, too, from the

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original album. That's right, him, right in the corner here. See?

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Oh, yeah, there he is. Right there on the cover.

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I mean, he, he sounds good, man.

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Sounds good. He sounds really good. Yeah.

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Uh, but Bernie Leighton is playing piano on the, the 1950

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sessions. Right. It's still Ray Brown and Buddy Rich on those '50 sessions Right
but a different pianist. So and then there's a whole string section, and then

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there's, of course, on these first six tracks, Mitch Miller on the oboe.

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Maybe the English horn. I thought it was the oboe, but maybe it's the Uh, he did, but he played both.
That sounded v- I mean Was a little, it was a little catty. The, the tone might have been an E horn.

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Cor anglais? Cor Yes, exactly, which can be a
beautiful instrument. Let's just put that out there.

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Shout-out to Haley Banamon of the St.

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Louis Symphony Orchestra That's right a beautiful That's right cor anglais player.

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I just wanna say, 'cause you mentioned Ray Brown, whose name I'm sure is gonna come

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up again. First of all, like, how...

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He, is he the For- Was he the Forrest Gump of jazz?

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Like, always at the right place at the right time, but s- but actually

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impacting it, like, right? You know I would never Art Tatum, Oscar
Peterson, and Charlie Parker ever call him the Forrest Gump of anything.

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Well, you know But he is a through line in the history
Through line of music Yes from the very beginnings.

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Yes. I mean, really, he was, he's been around.

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Yeah. And he- And all the way to, like, we... You played with him.

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I played with him, which, I mean, it's I saw him when in my lifetime.

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It's stunning to think about that, his, the, the level that he maintained, the

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longevity of his career, but with his inner s- w- his intersection...

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I mean, the fact that I'm, like, one player kind of removed from this

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is really an honor, and, um, it's kind of mind-blowing.

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Oh, you'd have killed on this. You would've, you would've done even better than

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Stan Freeman, Peter. Well, you know what? That solo is so good on Just Intonation.

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I've always loved that solo, and I th- I think that might have been written out,

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and that's no shade on Stan. Like, that's Hey I mean, look
you're playing with Bird, you gotta do what you gotta do.

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Yeah, not necessarily written out, but just, like, pre-planned.

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But and that's not like, "Oh, well, what are you saying?" I mean, Art Tatum did...

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I've heard him do several versions of several tunes where the- his solo was very,

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very close to that. It just had that kind of feel to it, which is no problem,

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'cause it felt improvisatory, but I wonder about that.

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Let's, uh, let's I mean, it's better to plan out your solo and kill it like that than
Yeah than to get intimidated, 'cause Charlie Parker and Ray Brown are sitting right

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there. And he's like, "I bet a lot of people are gonna hear this- ...

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over the next 65, 75 years." Smart guy.

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Yeah. Let's go back a little bit to Charlie
Parker's beginnings, uh, from Kansas City,

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Missouri Yeah just down the road here originally.

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There's actually Was he Kansas City, Missouri, or Kansas City, Kansas?

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'Cause when I think it's Oh, that's a good question. I don't know.

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We're gonna... I'll look that up as you're talking.

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But there is a giant sculpture of his head Yeah in Kansas
City, which is right by the Kansas City, Missouri.

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Kansas City, Missouri Right which is right by the Blue Room, and so it's pretty cool.

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You can, you can sort of, like, walk in Bird's footsteps over there in K Yeah
in KC, and shout-out to all the amazing musicians carrying that torch over

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there. Kansas City still has a great jazz scene.

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Man, the tradition, Count Basie Oh, man uh, Jay McShann, right? Charlie Parker.

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I mean Yeah. Well, let's, let's get into it.

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Oh, Kansas City, Kansas. Kansas City, Kansas.

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I'm glad we corrected that Yeah, all the 'cause they're very territorial.

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Yeah. Even though, if you've been to Kansas
City, you just walk across the street, it's

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the same It seems like the same deal.

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Yeah, it's the same city. Oh, he said it. He said it, not me.

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Okay, well, um, let's go back to Jay McShann.

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Okay. So Jay McShann, incredible artist, uh, again, in that Kansas City scene.

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This is Swingmatism. This is the earliest known

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recording, like, like, a, a studio recording of Charlie Parker.

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This is from 1941.

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It's a pretty swinging band, yeah.

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Man, swing music felt so amazing. And Kansas City.

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This whole band is wearing, like, a suit, pants, jacket with

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multiple pockets on it. Yeah, dude. Just pockets all up and on the legs. tight,

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too!

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He was 20 or 21 when he made this?

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Mm, Jimmy Shan.

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So not bebop.

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Charlie Parker.

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Bebop, right? That's the beginnings. Whoa!

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It's not quite No you know, Cherokee yet.

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No. It's not, but This What a sound, too Yeah already as a young musician.

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Yeah, it's just totally recognizable. So Yeah, the sound.
The, the bluesy part kind of always stayed along, but he was,

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yeah, way more bebop when he, when he broke through with that.

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So already known prodigiously, even in 1941.

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You know, there's these great stories of when he was a teenager, and he, he plays

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a, a, a, a, a show or a jam- I forget, it was a show or a jam session somewhere,

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but he wasn't Sham session. A sham session. But he
wasn't sounding great, and the drummer threw a cymbal at

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him. Right. Probably never happened. And, yeah, this
is all probably lore or whatever. But he was...

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Uh, the lore goes, then after that, he practiced for Right
hours and hours every day, and he, until he got better, right?

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Right. Like, he was shamed into become- like, he said, "For years, then I

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practiced." The lore was he was this, like, magnificent practicer, and that's what

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sort of led him to not only becoming this great player but really helping

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to invent and evolve what would later become known as bebop.

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And here is Charlie Parker himself talking to, uh...

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Well, you first hear the voice of, of alto saxophonist Paul Desmond Mm
and talking about Oh, that's a great interview Bird on his practice.

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I can't see where there's anything fantastic about it at all.

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I put quite a bit of study into the horn, that's true.

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Mm-hmm. In fact, the neighbors threatened to ask my mother to move once when I

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was- ... living out west. I mean, uh, they said I was driving them crazy with the

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horn. I used to put in at least 11, from 11 to 15 hours a day.

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Damn! Yeah. That's what I wondered. That's true, yes.
I did that for over a period of three or four years.

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Mm. Oh. Yeah. 10,000 hours. That adds up.

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That's true. Well, that's the facts anyway.

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I guess that's the answer. That's the facts anyway.

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Facts anyway. Yeah. Wow. But, I mean, 11 to But
think about 15 hours over three years, every day.

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Right. But coming out of that story, whether it happened or not, with throwing the

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cymbal, it's like... Isn't that, that- it's the Michael Jordan, he didn't make his

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JV Totally team, and then Totally he's like, "Well,
I'm gonna come back and show them," you know?

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Chip on your shoulder. Chip on the shoulder Kind of thing but w- I
don't know if you know what year that interview was, but I can...

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I mean, Charlie Parker, uh, died when he was 34 years old.

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So we always think about it, he's like, oh, this...

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It almost sounds like this is a 60-year-old man looking back on his career.

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No, this is a young person Yeah, in his early
30s at this point at max, this. Exactly.

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Yeah, this was in the early 50s when the With that kind
of perspective but also that kind of accuracy with, with

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laying out things in an interview, even away from the horn. Amazing.

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So, uh, just a few years later, he moves to New York City.

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He teaches The city that never sleeps.

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City that never sleeps. Okay. At least back then it was. I don't know.

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It goes to sleep at about, about 11:30 these days.

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Right. But, uh, no, this is when he, he met people like Dizzy

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Gillespie and Mm Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk, and they started recording for the

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Savoy Max Roach. Yeah label and the Dial, uh, label, uh, in these
Were those all owned by Norman Granz? Was he running multiple?

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He might have been. Norman Granz, plays a, a heavy
role in the Yeah early development of, of this music.

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But this is, Now's the Time for those- from those very famous Savoy and Dial master

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recordings. Mm. Oh, classic.

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Ah.

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Miles Davis on the trumpet. A young, young Miles Davis on the trumpet.

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Yeah, straight out of East St. Louis, Illinois.

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Had that Miles sound already, though.

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You know who that is?

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Is that Monk? No.

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See if you can tell. See if what?

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See if you can hear it. Okay.

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You don't have a chance.

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Could be Bud Powell. Could be Barry Harris, but he wouldn't have

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been playing that well.

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So you can hear Bird has already started to develop a more rhythmically
precise Very outlining the chord changes, kind of bebop style.

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Yeah. This solo That double-time solo feel.

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Yeah. This is probably...

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You slow this down, man, pure melody.

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Yeah. Pure melody. Well, even at this tempo, even at the double time.

204
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This is probably Miles Miles, Milesing. Yeah.

205
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Ooh, this drops down a little bit when Bird's not playing.

206
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Let's just put that out there. Am I wrong?

207
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Man, Miles is so good, though. I mean, he's in No, I know his 17 or 18 or something.

208
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No, yeah, he's fine. I mean It's a whole different vibe.

209
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Yeah. It's almost like this is Miles...

210
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Is at the place that Charlie Parker was on the Jamie Shan.

211
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Probably the same age, too. He was, he was, young, young men.

212
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But what you hear is the sound. The sound is
amazing. and some Miles is already creeping in.

213
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And the St. Louis trumpet sound's already there.

214
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Hey! Okay, so that's Now's the Time.

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So that's from one of the first sessions that they did for the Savoy label, and
Can I just say, too, that solo- and there's another version of Now's the Time, but

216
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this particular one- actually, the other one is the one that I remember learning.

217
00:18:01,398 --> 00:18:04,738
I learned not a lot, but if you There's a lot Charlie Parker solos, they're so good.

218
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Highly recommend any Yeah no matter what instrument
you play. But that version is probably...

219
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Wouldn't you say that's, like, the most influential for saxophone players, and

220
00:18:13,578 --> 00:18:17,478
maybe even for other instruments as well, jazz solos of

221
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all time? Oh, 100%. I mean Like, that people transcribe to learn.

222
00:18:20,458 --> 00:18:26,178
For sure. You know? I mean, we've already talked about the Just Friends solo Yeah how iconic
that is. Right, but that's Right, but this is the one that, like, everybody knows, you know?

223
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For sure. So interesting thing on this session, the piano player, right?

224
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Yeah. So a pianist from, uh, I believe from Minneapolis, Sidique

225
00:18:33,978 --> 00:18:37,898
Hakim, was on the session, but had his, had

226
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his, uh, cabaret card pulled. Oh, no.

227
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They pulled their union card, and he didn't have an
up-to-date cabaret card Oh, okay do this session.

228
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Okay. But there was another musician hanging out at the session,

229
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and his name was Dizzy Gillespie. Wow.

230
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And he could play some piano. So he's playing piano on the first, like,
six s Oh, that's right six tracks of the Savoy Deville Oh uh, Dial records.

231
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Yeah. It's Dizzy playing piano, man! That's awesome. Yeah, Dizzy playing.

232
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It's Dizzy playing piano. Not only that, but they, they go on to

233
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do something that... You know, one of the hallmarks of bebop, uh,

234
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came to be known as a contrafact. Well, it was already known as a contrafact, but

235
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it became to be one of the hallmarks of bebop.

236
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Yeah. And that starts from these early Savoy recordings, these early bebop

237
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recordings, Peter. Yep. They're already doing contrafacts.

238
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Now, a contrafact is a tune that is built over the chord

239
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changes of another song. Uh, so So that's the harmonic
underpinnings, the progression, the timing of it, of the

240
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chords. Everything but the melody, basically. Everything
but the melody. Now, this happens, like, live

241
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in real time on this session. I came across this incredible NPR

242
00:19:38,478 --> 00:19:42,058
piece from the year 2000 interviewing Oh, I'm, I'm a member, by the way.

243
00:19:42,098 --> 00:19:45,738
Interviewing yes, me too. Yeah. Interviewing historian Phil Schaap on these sessions.

244
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Mm. And the tune Koko. You know the tune Koko?

245
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Yeah. So

246
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Koko is a contrafact Based on Cherokee, the Ray Noble tune Cherokee.

247
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Right, right. And apparently, when they were in these

248
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sessions, the record executive who was there said, "I don't wanna pay for Cherokee."

249
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Right. "You're gonna do a contrafact, meaning
you're gonna write your own tune over these

250
00:20:09,318 --> 00:20:10,888
changes." Yeah. Here's Phil Schaap talking about that.

251
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Yeah. On the outtake, they play the very same arrangement that is Koko, and

252
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then they jump into the melody of Cherokee, and, and, uh, Teddy

253
00:20:18,838 --> 00:20:22,238
would go, "Hold it! Hold it. You can't

254
00:20:22,258 --> 00:20:25,538
play..." And it cuts like that. "You can't play Cherokee.

255
00:20:25,558 --> 00:20:32,238
You can't play the melody. My boss, Herman Lubinsky
Wow of Savoy Records, he's making a fortune by

256
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using chord structures of preexisting tunes and

257
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placing new melodies on them. Or even if there's no melody, calling it a new

258
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tune. That's his gig. That's his scene.

259
00:20:43,038 --> 00:20:46,058
And of course, that is the device of bebop

260
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composition, most divinely for Charlie Parker when
playing the ambitious changes of Ray Noble's Cherokee.

261
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Check it out.

262
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This is what we all know as Koko.

263
00:21:15,938 --> 00:21:23,238
Oh, I see. But yeah, listen.

264
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Hey, hey, hold it!

265
00:21:31,458 --> 00:21:35,068
He literally "Hey, hey, hey, hey! I, I feel money coming out of my pockets."

266
00:21:35,078 --> 00:21:37,587
That's the head of Savoy Records saying, like, "I'm not paying for that."

267
00:21:37,587 --> 00:21:40,918
Right. "You guys need to do something else." So they did, and it was Koko.

268
00:21:40,938 --> 00:21:44,518
Here's the version that made it on those first Savoy recordings.

269
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Now, what's cool is this is from the same session we just
listened to Yeah Now's the Time. So these are classic...

270
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These, like, molded what we know now Yeah as the bebop sound in, in the mid-'40s.

271
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So from that same session where, uh, the pianist, uh, couldn't continue the

272
00:21:57,078 --> 00:22:02,058
session Yeah Dizzy Gillespie was there. Apparently, a young Miles

273
00:22:02,078 --> 00:22:05,818
Davis, who was just a kid, teenager, on this session, couldn't really

274
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hang on Koko. Mm.

275
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And so Dizzy was there. Dizzy used Miles' trumpet.

276
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This is the lore. Yeah. Miles' trumpet, Miles'
mouthpiece, and played the intro on the

277
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piano, and then went and played the trumpet on this

278
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tune.

279
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Or sorry, intro on trumpet, and the rest is trumpet.

280
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Man, it's classic Dizzy there.

281
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Whoo! Yeah.

282
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Now Dizzy's heading over to the piano.

283
00:22:55,858 --> 00:22:59,478
That's like bebop would walk in the bar.

284
00:23:20,938 --> 00:23:24,798
This is great, 'cause you hear Dizzy over that bridge is playing like

285
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a really good trumpet player that can play some piano.

286
00:23:27,738 --> 00:23:30,008
Yeah. Like, he's knowing not, what not to... Like, he's very intense on this.

287
00:23:30,018 --> 00:23:31,268
He's giving you what is needed and nothing more.

288
00:23:31,268 --> 00:23:36,738
Yeah, he's not playing every chord Yeah because he's not there, but he's doing it Oh.

289
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That's amazing. Birdie just crushing it. Yeah. every phrase is a masterpiece.

290
00:24:08,102 --> 00:24:10,622
It's humbling listening to Charlie Parker. Yeah.

291
00:24:11,562 --> 00:24:15,512
Like, famously, there- people talk about, like, he never played a wrong note.

292
00:24:15,512 --> 00:24:18,682
Like, it's very... In all the recordings, and there's a bunch of them, it's hard to

293
00:24:18,722 --> 00:24:21,972
find him playing anything without total conviction, and also anything that's not,

294
00:24:22,002 --> 00:24:25,602
like, beautifully Yeah composed as a, as a piece of melody.

295
00:24:25,662 --> 00:24:28,502
Yeah, it's, it's- I mean, his playing is highly, highly melodic.

296
00:24:28,522 --> 00:24:32,302
Of course, on the Parker with Strings, you hear it even more so because of the

297
00:24:32,402 --> 00:24:34,902
setting and because of the, the limitations around it.

298
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But even when he's going crazy, like at this tempo, uh, it's really

299
00:24:38,402 --> 00:24:42,242
stunning. Um, like, and this is stuff I, I'd encourage you, like, if you're hearing

300
00:24:42,282 --> 00:24:45,952
this for the first time, or maybe you're- you've kind of heard it, but you're like,

301
00:24:45,952 --> 00:24:48,862
"Wait, wait, what is bebop? Is that, like, the hipsters with the beanies?" And,

302
00:24:48,922 --> 00:24:52,432
like, no, no, forget all that. This kind of thing is...

303
00:24:52,542 --> 00:24:54,862
I know it might seem like a heavy lift, especially if you jump right into this,

304
00:24:54,882 --> 00:24:57,972
but, like, listen to the Now's the Time first, and then spice in a little bit of

305
00:24:58,022 --> 00:24:59,642
this, a little bit of the Charlie Parker with Strings.

306
00:24:59,682 --> 00:25:03,462
But the more you listen to this, this is like, this is a fine

307
00:25:03,522 --> 00:25:06,502
wine, that once you start to understand the stuff in there, it's stunning.

308
00:25:06,522 --> 00:25:10,502
It's got the blues. It's got... Like, his attenuation with the phrasing

309
00:25:10,562 --> 00:25:15,052
in the time, unmatched. I mean Unmatched I, we also have to make no mistake here.

310
00:25:15,082 --> 00:25:17,472
This is an intellectual heavyweight, Charlie Parker.

311
00:25:17,502 --> 00:25:23,102
This is a musically Yeah gifted, intellectual genius who is, he, he's really,

312
00:25:23,142 --> 00:25:27,062
like, trying to push music somewhere, who's trying to give

313
00:25:27,502 --> 00:25:31,322
the music that he loves, which is swing and this early jazz style that he started

314
00:25:31,332 --> 00:25:34,902
playing in Kansas City, but push it to new heights, to do things that nobody else

315
00:25:34,962 --> 00:25:37,852
was doing at this time. Yeah. And, I mean, in the movie about...

316
00:25:37,862 --> 00:25:41,162
I mean, look, we, uh, uh, an episode about Charlie Parker, we have to at least

317
00:25:41,222 --> 00:25:45,142
mention, um, Clint Eastwood's, uh, Bird movie, who

318
00:25:45,222 --> 00:25:48,742
I'm- I think the name of it was Bird, uh, with Forest Whitaker, which is- I think

319
00:25:48,842 --> 00:25:52,442
it's a problematic movie. It's a controversial movie, but I think it's a really

320
00:25:52,462 --> 00:25:56,082
good movie, at least part of it, and he's definitely portrayed as a

321
00:25:56,162 --> 00:25:59,392
musical and intellectual genius to a certain extent.

322
00:25:59,392 --> 00:26:02,662
Then he's also portrayed as a drug addict and some of the more stereotypical

323
00:26:02,722 --> 00:26:06,642
Hollywood things. So I, I mean, that's, it's, it's beyond

324
00:26:06,722 --> 00:26:08,682
us to, to tackle all that in this episode.

325
00:26:08,702 --> 00:26:12,622
But it's just to say that, like, that reference point of how you just described

326
00:26:12,662 --> 00:26:16,212
it, like, was who he was, h- what, how he was known, the 11 to 15 hours of

327
00:26:16,282 --> 00:26:19,982
practice, how you lead up to all th- this prodigious output by the time you're

328
00:26:20,142 --> 00:26:23,962
34 years old. And, I mean, the, the impact that he has to

329
00:26:24,002 --> 00:26:31,042
this day on music, you talk about everything from 100% Dizzy
and, and Max Roach, the guys that were, that he came up with,

330
00:26:31,122 --> 00:26:33,882
uh, but also your Lou Donalds, every saxophone player, John Coltrane.

331
00:26:33,942 --> 00:26:38,962
Like, like, everybody had, today still I mean have to go
through... Like, he's the one unavoidable saxophonist.

332
00:26:38,982 --> 00:26:44,962
We literally just You have to go through him just heard it at the Super
Bowl in Kenny G's playing Right of all people, but it's unavoidable.

333
00:26:44,982 --> 00:26:51,442
Charlie Parker is Right something that all musicians, not just saxophonists, but all of
us Yeah at a certain point, deal with. If you have any touchstone with Black American

334
00:26:51,502 --> 00:26:57,242
music or with jazz, you are gonna touch upon that bebop
sound Yeah and that was honed by, by Bird and Diz.

335
00:26:57,542 --> 00:27:00,292
Bad Bunny as well. And, and That's who I thought
you were bringing up, but maybe not. It's fine.

336
00:27:00,322 --> 00:27:03,691
And shout out Bud Powell, too, who is Yeah
also one of the architects of the music also.

337
00:27:03,722 --> 00:27:07,622
And Thelonious Monk. And, and Thelonious Monk. These
are, like, artistic and intellectual heavyweights.

338
00:27:07,662 --> 00:27:09,512
I just wanna mention And Miles. And Miles, too.

339
00:27:09,522 --> 00:27:11,462
A little later, but yeah. I mean, but, but for real.

340
00:27:11,482 --> 00:27:15,042
Coming out of the bebop thing. So the problem is, though,
Peter, like you mentioned, like, it's a heavy lift.

341
00:27:15,062 --> 00:27:18,102
This is underground music. This is like punk rock before there was punk rock.

342
00:27:18,112 --> 00:27:21,922
Yeah. They were doing this to, to, like, to be a little bit difficult,

343
00:27:21,962 --> 00:27:25,022
right? To be like... I mean, they, they're making music for the people is what, who

344
00:27:25,042 --> 00:27:28,152
they're making for, but they, they're not trying to do this commercial stuff.

345
00:27:28,182 --> 00:27:30,092
Well, they gotta eat. They gotta live.

346
00:27:30,122 --> 00:27:32,122
Yeah. How do you sell this to a broader public?

347
00:27:32,131 --> 00:27:34,062
And this is where Norman Granz sort of steps in.

348
00:27:34,102 --> 00:27:40,002
He starts these live concert series, Live at the Philharmonic Right where
he's taking all of these, I mean, bunch of different kinds of musicians,

349
00:27:40,082 --> 00:27:43,012
swing musicians, Lester Young, Ella Fitzgerald Yeah you know?

350
00:27:43,012 --> 00:27:47,382
But great stuff. Great stuff. I mean, he didn't really...
Like, he kept the bar high on the- from the programs

351
00:27:47,462 --> 00:27:51,262
I've seen and the live records. 100%. Yeah,
everybody's a, everybody's a monster on these tours.

352
00:27:51,272 --> 00:27:52,722
And so he would take them around America,

353
00:27:53,582 --> 00:27:56,922
and then him and Charlie Parker had this idea, and actually there's, there's

354
00:27:56,962 --> 00:28:00,362
different stories about how the Charlie Parker with Strings happened, Peter.

355
00:28:00,402 --> 00:28:04,002
But a lot of, a lot of the stories about how this was actually Charlie Parker's

356
00:28:04,042 --> 00:28:07,922
push to make this album. Like, not that he wanted to be more commercially viable,

357
00:28:07,962 --> 00:28:10,152
which is what you immediately think of when you think of this album.

358
00:28:10,152 --> 00:28:14,092
Right. I think of, like, okay, they're trying to, like, dress up Bird and

359
00:28:14,102 --> 00:28:17,772
the bebop sound in this lush, like you said, Hollywood sheen of the

360
00:28:17,882 --> 00:28:23,782
strings and these gorgeous arrangements. But this is something
that Charlie Parker was actually artistically interested in

361
00:28:23,862 --> 00:28:28,702
pursuing Yeah, absolutely on his own. And so,
you know, this isn't just like, "Well, just put

362
00:28:28,762 --> 00:28:29,692
strings on it and make it great."

363
00:28:29,702 --> 00:28:30,532
No, he had a vision. He had a vision of this.

364
00:28:30,542 --> 00:28:32,412
Like, he could hear, he could hear Yeah.

365
00:28:32,422 --> 00:28:36,332
And whether or not this is exactly what, what he envisioned, maybe not

366
00:28:36,342 --> 00:28:38,952
some parts of it, but, like, the overall concept and stuff.

367
00:28:38,952 --> 00:28:42,702
For sure. And he even s- it was even said, and
this is really a verified story, at least it's

368
00:28:42,742 --> 00:28:45,962
from several sources, that, you know, on, literally on his

369
00:28:46,022 --> 00:28:49,682
deathbed, when, um, the doctor that was helping to care for him,

370
00:28:50,102 --> 00:28:52,842
you know, it was... He asked something, "What should I listen to of yours?

371
00:28:52,882 --> 00:28:56,302
What represents you?" Asking Charlie Parker, and he said, "A- April in

372
00:28:56,342 --> 00:28:58,442
Paris," from this recording.

373
00:29:00,862 --> 00:29:04,362
The best strings on the whole album.

374
00:29:12,142 --> 00:29:29,142
Ah! Incredible

375
00:29:29,542 --> 00:29:40,242
string playing on here, too.

376
00:29:42,142 --> 00:29:45,642
Yeah, this is my favorite arrangement of it.

377
00:29:48,862 --> 00:29:50,012
What a great tune, too.

378
00:29:50,202 --> 00:29:54,442
Yeah. Oh, and when the strings go out there, what a, what a beautiful opening of the,

379
00:29:54,482 --> 00:29:56,402
closing of the curtain.

380
00:30:01,512 --> 00:30:08,152
A little

381
00:30:08,412 --> 00:30:12,312
back and forth.

382
00:30:14,392 --> 00:30:17,482
I think this is what Charlie Parker really had a vision for, like, playing in the

383
00:30:17,592 --> 00:30:23,582
cracks, you know? Yes. Like, that's some of his most inspired Or this.

384
00:30:26,012 --> 00:30:28,632
Let me just say, let me just say it's the elephant in- it's the oboe in the room.

385
00:30:28,672 --> 00:30:31,122
It's the oboe in the room. Well, that, that might be the English

386
00:30:31,232 --> 00:30:33,052
horn.

387
00:30:36,692 --> 00:30:38,692
I wish it was Stan Freeman did it a little

388
00:30:38,772 --> 00:30:40,992
better.

389
00:30:41,272 --> 00:30:45,252
It's pretty good stuff. A block chord

390
00:30:45,312 --> 00:30:45,881
solo here?

391
00:30:46,292 --> 00:30:48,632
Yeah. Don't, don't, don't... Y- you're not gonna soar above Charlie Parker.

392
00:30:48,672 --> 00:30:49,342
Don't even try.

393
00:30:50,012 --> 00:30:54,392
Bitch. He kicked me!

394
00:31:01,492 --> 00:31:22,232
Ah! Oh, what a sound.

395
00:31:23,232 --> 00:31:25,172
And then, they don't have...

396
00:31:26,012 --> 00:31:29,592
Like, the recording technology had not quite turned the corner to have, like, five

397
00:31:29,612 --> 00:31:31,742
years later, this would've been like Oh, it's so lush.

398
00:31:31,772 --> 00:31:35,712
But it's still, like, comes through, the playing, the singing sound, and this

399
00:31:35,932 --> 00:31:43,472
orchestra rhythm section. Almost everything. I was gonna say, almost everyone.

400
00:31:44,872 --> 00:31:45,992
Poor double M.

401
00:31:50,772 --> 00:31:51,752
Killing it.

402
00:31:53,372 --> 00:31:56,372
That's some high-level. That's the, that's the A-list right

403
00:31:56,432 --> 00:31:57,912
there.

404
00:31:58,792 --> 00:32:01,752
Do it, Stan. Were these Mitch Miller arrangements?

405
00:32:01,792 --> 00:32:05,832
I don't believe so. Okay, 'cause I was gonna say, hats
off to the arrangements So 'cause they're, they're great.

406
00:32:05,912 --> 00:32:09,772
I mean, they're, they're, like, this- these kind of arrangements, I would say, sit

407
00:32:09,832 --> 00:32:13,761
in that space. Like, you can't say they're not dated, um, because this does

408
00:32:13,792 --> 00:32:17,141
date it Mm in a way that, like, Charlie Parker's playing is kind of...

409
00:32:17,152 --> 00:32:20,372
You could also say is dated, but it's like a great-- It's kind of like, oh, my God,

410
00:32:20,452 --> 00:32:22,682
you remember that time when No, Charlie Parker's playing is timeless, man.

411
00:32:22,752 --> 00:32:26,362
Yeah. It's timeless. It's timeless. True. But I would say the
range... Okay, yeah, maybe not on the choir level, but, I mean,

412
00:32:26,372 --> 00:32:30,032
it's very... Like, it does, it's evocative of that Hollywood sound or whatever, but

413
00:32:30,052 --> 00:32:33,832
it's so well-executed. Yeah. And, and there's
nothing revolutionary about that string, right?

414
00:32:33,852 --> 00:32:36,362
It's just very well done, great players.

415
00:32:36,372 --> 00:32:40,102
And then, you know, Parker is really playing some transcendental,

416
00:32:40,172 --> 00:32:43,822
like, y- you know, transcendent, I should say, transcendent,

417
00:32:43,932 --> 00:32:45,742
um, things

418
00:32:46,652 --> 00:32:49,732
wh- it- w- with the wrapper of this beautiful sound and melodic playing.

419
00:32:49,752 --> 00:32:52,582
It's gorgeous. But then when you dig underneath
it, you're like, "That's never been done!"

420
00:32:52,632 --> 00:32:54,002
That's exactly right. It's never been done.

421
00:32:54,002 --> 00:32:59,132
It's like this incredibly beautiful packaging. Like you said
Yeah the sound quality of it is still in the late '40s.

422
00:32:59,152 --> 00:33:02,532
Yeah. We're still in 1949. Although this is
probably some of the best for the late '40s.

423
00:33:02,572 --> 00:33:03,962
It's, it's good. Like, this is, this is very good, well-executed.

424
00:33:03,972 --> 00:33:06,372
It's good, but it's, like you said, it's not hi-fi.

425
00:33:06,412 --> 00:33:15,372
No, right. It's like if this were in the early '60s, there'd be this big Oh lux string sound, and you'd
hear the piano They'd have the Rumors engineer you'd hear the bass. Oh, God, fair, the Rumors engineer.

426
00:33:15,412 --> 00:33:19,232
No, but, but it is this, this very beautiful wrapping, but then when you

427
00:33:19,292 --> 00:33:23,272
get into the, the meat of what Bird is playing, the star of

428
00:33:23,332 --> 00:33:27,572
this album Yeah it is some of the greatest, again, revolutionary kind of

429
00:33:27,632 --> 00:33:30,852
music Yeah of this time, that nobody else could do at this time.

430
00:33:30,862 --> 00:33:32,272
No. Like, nobody else is playing like this.

431
00:33:32,312 --> 00:33:33,462
No. Nobody is at this level.

432
00:33:33,752 --> 00:33:36,192
And some of the be- well, we're g- well, we already heard some of that, like, with

433
00:33:36,272 --> 00:33:39,532
Dizzy and stuff, like, Miles, like, some of the best, Ray

434
00:33:39,652 --> 00:33:43,622
Brown. Like, it's not... This is not to be like, "Oh, they're funk-"

435
00:33:43,652 --> 00:33:45,701
I mean, you've got the A players, right?

436
00:33:45,792 --> 00:33:48,172
Oh, yeah. With them. Buddy Rich and Ray Brown
And Dizzy were the battery for this time.

437
00:33:48,232 --> 00:33:51,712
Yeah, and Dizzy Gillespie was doing revolutionary things with the trumpet with him.

438
00:33:51,732 --> 00:33:55,302
But Charlie Parker, even if it's just a small... Like, he's the A+, everyone...

439
00:33:55,312 --> 00:33:57,892
You know, um, not that, not that we're rating.

440
00:33:57,932 --> 00:33:59,132
Let's talk a little bit about Mitch Miller.

441
00:33:59,152 --> 00:34:02,632
So Mitch Miller is playing oboe on these first six tracks from the, from the 1949

442
00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:04,782
sessions. And he's on the album cover, which is strange.

443
00:34:04,812 --> 00:34:06,752
It is weird that he's on the album cover.

444
00:34:06,761 --> 00:34:10,652
Yeah. There's a... He's a controversial figure
in, not just this album, but I think, uh,

445
00:34:10,732 --> 00:34:15,862
after this as well. Yeah. He was the head of A&R
for Mercury, the album that this Yeah label was on.

446
00:34:15,892 --> 00:34:17,712
Yeah. And then ends up playing oboe on it.

447
00:34:17,752 --> 00:34:20,292
I'm not sure how that happened, but it is...

448
00:34:20,303 --> 00:34:22,993
Uh, you don't hear about that every day, that kind of circumstance.

449
00:34:23,053 --> 00:34:24,182
Yeah, and I always... I don't know.

450
00:34:24,212 --> 00:34:27,852
Let's He would go on, by the way, to be, right
after this Yeah the head of A&R at Columbia Records.

451
00:34:27,872 --> 00:34:31,993
Yeah. Which is a huge job. Huge career, and made
amazing records, but was Frank Sinatra, like that.

452
00:34:32,033 --> 00:34:34,352
Yeah, and Tony Bennett, but it also was controversial there.

453
00:34:34,372 --> 00:34:37,792
Sinatra, I don't think... There's some quotes about him not really liking the

454
00:34:37,832 --> 00:34:41,812
material that, that, they didn't w- they, you know, they butted heads, that

455
00:34:41,892 --> 00:34:42,703
Mitch Miller Frank Sinatra and Mitch Miller did?

456
00:34:42,732 --> 00:34:45,342
Yes. Oh, wow. That, that, that Mitch Miller, some of the...

457
00:34:45,392 --> 00:34:49,312
He wanted him to go more schlocky kind of tunes, and, you know, Sinatra

458
00:34:49,352 --> 00:34:52,612
was like, "No." Well, although he did it, he did at least some of it, and felt like

459
00:34:52,652 --> 00:34:54,812
that was part of his falloff during the Columbia period.

460
00:34:54,872 --> 00:34:57,182
He attributes that to Mitch Miller. The only grace I don't know.

461
00:34:57,212 --> 00:35:00,202
I mean, the biggest grace that I give Mitch Miller on here is that I believe that

462
00:35:00,212 --> 00:35:01,962
Bird had... did have a vision for this.

463
00:35:02,032 --> 00:35:05,722
Yeah. And so if this is what Bird wanted on
this, I'm, I'm happy that it happened, and

464
00:35:05,732 --> 00:35:10,142
that he got his vision fulfilled. And if Mitch Miller
was a part, he must have been part of making that happen.

465
00:35:10,152 --> 00:35:14,782
Had to have been. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, Norman
Grant... I mean, Norman Grant's just had great taste.

466
00:35:14,812 --> 00:35:16,332
Norman Grant From everything I've seen. That's an understatement.

467
00:35:16,352 --> 00:35:22,392
I know that there's some, like, you know Incredible ta- taste
there's some, like, management, and, and booking, and percentages.

468
00:35:22,412 --> 00:35:25,412
There, there's some things I've heard, but, I mean, all I can go on in, in terms of

469
00:35:25,452 --> 00:35:30,032
seeing what he did. But I do wanna just shout out, because Just,
you're right, working with amazing artists his whole career.

470
00:35:30,072 --> 00:35:31,082
Yeah. I mean, I know Ella Fitzgerald...

471
00:35:31,092 --> 00:35:34,272
I mean, she, he worked with Ella Fitzgerald, managing, booking her, doing her whole

472
00:35:34,372 --> 00:35:37,052
financial thing Yeah everything for her entire life.

473
00:35:37,112 --> 00:35:41,232
Yeah. And, um, but I just wanted to mention,
'cause you said about Norman Granz with Live

474
00:35:41,292 --> 00:35:44,362
the, uh, Jazz at the Philharmonic, and that great series and everything.

475
00:35:44,412 --> 00:35:48,252
And, you know, 1948, there was the Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall was like a

476
00:35:48,292 --> 00:35:52,132
watershed moment as far as, like, jazz, you know, get- starting to get

477
00:35:52,172 --> 00:35:55,842
its due. I mean, this was a very controversial period, this, like, at

478
00:35:55,992 --> 00:35:59,052
post-World War II period. Even in New York City, one of the most progressive places

479
00:35:59,072 --> 00:36:02,712
in the United States. Pre-civil rights movement, I mean, beginnings of civil rights

480
00:36:02,792 --> 00:36:09,332
movement, for sure, but, you know, a lot of African American GIs coming
back Yeah that fought for a country, they, that were marginalized.

481
00:36:09,352 --> 00:36:13,022
Not just in the Deep So- I mean, the Deep South, Jim Crow, and, and just horrible

482
00:36:13,032 --> 00:36:15,022
things still happening, but even, like, New York and stuff.

483
00:36:15,052 --> 00:36:18,962
So with jazz, with, like, jazz, and then bebop in particular,

484
00:36:18,992 --> 00:36:22,932
seems to have occupied this space, late '40s, early '50s,

485
00:36:22,972 --> 00:36:26,452
up to the mid-'50s, and then you get into the Miles Davis superstardom period, and

486
00:36:26,492 --> 00:36:29,292
Sonny Rollins, and all this. But of, like,

487
00:36:29,352 --> 00:36:33,346
almost-... be, be, because of different things that happened,

488
00:36:33,376 --> 00:36:37,066
television appearances and stuff, integrated bands, which still wasn't happening in

489
00:36:37,096 --> 00:36:38,096
a lot of the part of the country.

490
00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:40,646
Mm. Bebop and stuff was a real breakthrough with that.

491
00:36:40,656 --> 00:36:44,836
One hundred percent. You know, um, and so a lot is always attributed to the Benny

492
00:36:44,896 --> 00:36:48,696
Goodman with the, with his great band, an integrated band, going into Carnegie Hall

493
00:36:48,716 --> 00:36:52,616
in 1948, as this mi- like, jazz has arrived, and it's a civil

494
00:36:52,696 --> 00:36:56,616
rights moment. Only could happen in New York City, and the USA is turning the,

495
00:36:56,736 --> 00:36:58,156
the, the corner on this and everything.

496
00:36:58,316 --> 00:36:58,616
But

497
00:36:59,416 --> 00:37:03,176
1947, at Carnegie Hall, gentleman by the name of

498
00:37:03,276 --> 00:37:06,176
Leather- Leonard Feather, the great What a name!

499
00:37:06,216 --> 00:37:15,636
Yeah, Leonard Feather. Great name. He feathered up his pen. Uh, he had a feather boa put around
him to present a Your last name is Feather, and you go with Leonard for the first name of the baby.

500
00:37:15,656 --> 00:37:20,216
Leonard Feather. It's a fun name to say, Leonard
It is fun. especially if you Leonard Feather.

501
00:37:20,476 --> 00:37:22,316
If you lent a feather to Leonard Feather.

502
00:37:22,556 --> 00:37:26,426
Yeah. So he presented Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Dizzy and his orchestra, Ella

503
00:37:26,496 --> 00:37:34,036
Fitzgerald in 1947, a full year before Yeah um,
a- a- at a concert. There's some great pictures.

504
00:37:34,056 --> 00:37:36,326
Maybe we'll put up some of those. They, they're a little bit hard to find, but

505
00:37:36,326 --> 00:37:38,676
it's, it's a very interesting period, though.

506
00:37:38,696 --> 00:37:41,876
So, so Charlie Parker was, like, on some of these big stages, these so-called

507
00:37:41,936 --> 00:37:45,796
classical, you know, ah, kind of classical stamp of approval

508
00:37:45,806 --> 00:37:46,886
thing. And then what's the thing about...

509
00:37:46,896 --> 00:37:49,476
Do we wanna get into the Stravinsky thing now, or do we wanna save that?

510
00:37:49,536 --> 00:37:54,146
Get into it. Okay. 1951, Leonard, um...

511
00:37:54,196 --> 00:37:57,796
Legend goes, Parker was playing at Birdland, where the club

512
00:37:58,016 --> 00:38:01,356
famously named after him, that he got banned from for a while, when he learned

513
00:38:01,396 --> 00:38:04,746
Stravinsky was in the audience. Of course, a great composer, uh,

514
00:38:04,956 --> 00:38:08,846
Stravinsky. Ah, Parker calls for the band to play the ridiculously

515
00:38:08,876 --> 00:38:09,336
fast

516
00:38:10,436 --> 00:38:15,176
aforementioned "Koko" Yeah that you've shared with
us. Charlie goes into a solo and casually inserts the

517
00:38:15,216 --> 00:38:18,706
beginning of Stravinsky's Fire Bird, Birds Suite, which is not that...

518
00:38:18,716 --> 00:38:21,716
And it's not hard... It's not easy to throw anything in the beginning of "Koko,"

519
00:38:21,736 --> 00:38:25,416
though. Yeah, the quoting Firebird Suite,
though- ... in "Koko" is, is damn impressive.

520
00:38:25,476 --> 00:38:28,506
Yeah, Stravinsky, hearing this, starts pounding the table so hard, he knocks his

521
00:38:28,536 --> 00:38:30,626
glass over. Amazing. Wow. Amazing.

522
00:38:31,076 --> 00:38:33,356
Uh Well, let's move on, maybe, to another.

523
00:38:33,396 --> 00:38:40,116
Speaking of, of Stravinsky, who was a Yeah 20th century classical composer Yep
there is a song, the next song on this album, in fact, that was written by one

524
00:38:40,176 --> 00:38:46,836
of Stravinsky's contemporaries. Contemporaries or competitors? Well, you'll hear it.

525
00:38:51,496 --> 00:38:52,136
It's amazing.

526
00:38:54,576 --> 00:38:56,116
Celesta.

527
00:38:56,956 --> 00:38:59,196
Harp. They give it a li- they give it a little.

528
00:38:59,316 --> 00:39:02,226
This is very similar to the original arrangement of "Fly." Ah!

529
00:39:02,296 --> 00:39:03,176
Ah.

530
00:39:07,156 --> 00:39:10,476
George Gershwin's "Summertime," of course.

531
00:39:19,896 --> 00:39:36,696
We don't play that part enough.

532
00:39:38,536 --> 00:39:40,416
Ooh! Ooh, so good, man.

533
00:39:41,596 --> 00:40:16,956
Ooh.

534
00:40:17,176 --> 00:40:23,296
Love this chord.

535
00:40:27,676 --> 00:40:30,716
One of my favorite parts about this album is how much melody there is.

536
00:40:30,786 --> 00:40:36,946
Yeah. As much, for as much amazing improvisation Yeah and the bebop
lines that we're getting from Charlie Parker, which, I, I don't

537
00:40:36,956 --> 00:40:39,356
know if this is controversial, Peter. Is this his best playing?

538
00:40:40,596 --> 00:40:41,636
I mean Is that a hot take?

539
00:40:41,676 --> 00:40:48,596
It ain't his worst. This might be his overall I think s
best playing I think for his... It's, it's the most easily

540
00:40:48,656 --> 00:40:50,536
lovable, I can say, of his playing.

541
00:40:50,576 --> 00:40:54,386
It's, it's, it's, it's like It's like a big piece of apple pie or something.

542
00:40:54,396 --> 00:40:59,396
Yeah. It's just so good. Yeah, but it's not like,
it's not like a sugary apple pie, where you get sick

543
00:40:59,436 --> 00:41:03,176
afterwards. Like, you can keep eating it, and it's, it's, it's very nourishing.

544
00:41:03,256 --> 00:41:06,276
So it's... I mean, I, I, I wouldn't argue with it at all.

545
00:41:06,316 --> 00:41:09,936
I mean, and I think because of the with strings, even though, like, you know, we,

546
00:41:10,136 --> 00:41:13,956
it does have different iterations, and it jumps years with the different sessions

547
00:41:13,976 --> 00:41:17,676
and personnel, I think that frames it in a way that feels

548
00:41:17,736 --> 00:41:21,606
like an album Yeah for Charlie Parker, in a way that none of his other stuff...

549
00:41:21,616 --> 00:41:24,695
The early stuff is great, but it's all, like, put together singles, and we've heard

550
00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:27,306
them in a lot of... Like, I used to have cassettes, and the first Charlie Parker I

551
00:41:27,336 --> 00:41:31,596
had was that. Yeah. Remember that thing that was
like Walkman cassette or something, with that weird

552
00:41:31,676 --> 00:41:34,926
series? Um, what was it called? I can't remember.

553
00:41:34,956 --> 00:41:38,336
Anyway No, I Pocket something. I'm not that old.

554
00:41:38,356 --> 00:41:39,606
Weren't you talking about the bad cassette?

555
00:41:39,636 --> 00:41:42,196
Listen, don't you still have that in your car, man?

556
00:41:42,236 --> 00:41:45,826
No, but it's like, um, w- wherever we first...

557
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:49,546
How we first consume these songs, and in the order, you think, "Oh, this is the

558
00:41:49,596 --> 00:41:51,526
album," because we come up in the time of albums, right?

559
00:41:51,556 --> 00:41:55,356
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But none of that stuff, those are
all tracks that were, that were recorded and, and

560
00:41:55,376 --> 00:42:00,376
then, as you said, put together separately, and then Sure
passed around and then sold, and now it's just a hodgepodge.

561
00:42:00,396 --> 00:42:03,506
But this does have the feel because you have that unifying

562
00:42:04,136 --> 00:42:07,346
factor of the strings and the rhythm section and, um...

563
00:42:07,376 --> 00:42:11,606
Shout-out, too Right on these first six tracks here
on the, on the first sessions, it is, they are

564
00:42:11,856 --> 00:42:14,186
arranged and conducted by Jimmy Carroll. Okay.

565
00:42:14,216 --> 00:42:17,096
I just wanna give Jimmy a shout-out, 'cause these arrangements are incredible.

566
00:42:17,106 --> 00:42:22,980
And Like, that "Summertime" arrangement is so good, just, like It's little
details you can hear-... um, he's really, he's really bringing it out.

567
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,340
And so this speaks to, like, the time that I came up, and a little bit of the time

568
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,890
that you came up as being a wonderful time.

569
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:32,210
But also, do you remember when, like, disinformation used to,

570
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,460
um, just, like, fester for months and years?

571
00:42:35,470 --> 00:42:37,990
Yes. Because we didn't have a little device to check anything.

572
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:39,660
It's true. It was kind of an exciting time, though.

573
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,340
Like, so I had it in my mind, because when I first heard

574
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:49,090
this, uh, when I was getting into Charlie Parker, and I remember getting
that cas no, that wasn't the cassette. I got this on album, actually.

575
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,690
Okay. Uh, but it was a repackaging thing,
and I remember my dad was like, "Wait, who is

576
00:42:52,780 --> 00:42:53,929
that?" And he's looking at the record.

577
00:42:53,940 --> 00:42:58,580
He's like, "Oh, Mitch Miller!" Yeah. He's like, "That's
funny." He's like, "He doesn't sound good on this." And I said,

578
00:42:58,590 --> 00:43:01,929
"Well..." And, and then turns out my dad had worked with Mitch Miller a little bit

579
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:09,280
as M- Mitch was conducting. Your dad, Bill, is, uh, Bill is Bill, Bill is in the St. Louis
Symphony Yeah and he worked with. And that's not why he was saying he didn't sound great.

580
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,460
I think it was more of a comparison to his improvisation, as we heard right after

581
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:13,710
Charlie Parker. It's hard to sound good afterward.

582
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,230
It's hard to sound good after that.

583
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:19,069
Yeah. But, um, I always had it in my mind that, like, "Oh, he's...

584
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:25,460
was the arranger and the conductor of this, so at least he's- has all these,
y- y you know, that connection," but I'm glad to know Jimmy Carroll now.

585
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,280
Jimmy Carroll. Yeah. Yeah, and just crushing this.

586
00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:29,040
Yeah. But there, there were these two sessions.

587
00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:32,560
So, like I said, this one did really well, and with Norman Granz, if something does

588
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,960
well, he's gonna do it again Right and again, and again, and again. And, uh, he did.

589
00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:38,970
They did the He liked to return to the well of greatness. Is that what you're saying?

590
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,040
He loved going to the well. I mean, hey, we're no stranger to it here at the Yeah,

591
00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:43,280
Here It Is podcast. Let's be honest.

592
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,840
How many, uh, how many Stevie Wonder episodes are we gonna do?

593
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,430
I hope Fulfilling this first finale, coming soon!

594
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,270
I hope dozens. Yeah. I hope dozens. But, uh, they
made it- they made another album, or not even an...

595
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,339
I mean, it is an album. It's eight songs in
1950, the very next It's a gaggle of tunes.

596
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,860
It's a different sessions. I couldn't actually find out who is the conductor or

597
00:44:00,870 --> 00:44:04,580
arranger on this session, but it's the same rhythm section of Ray

598
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,290
Brown and Buddy Rich on the bass and drums, respectively.

599
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:11,180
But the different, uh, piano player i- is Bernie Layton on piano.

600
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,890
Oh, yeah, Bernie. This is from that session. This is "Out of Nowhere."

601
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:17,470
You can hear the difference. Already, yeah.

602
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:22,480
Yeah. Yeah, in the recording, technology.

603
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:25,330
Not Mitch Miller.

604
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:39,980
Oh, really? Yeah. It's a different

605
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,600
arranger. Yes.

606
00:44:44,020 --> 00:44:51,690
Okay. Yeah. Sounds like it. I couldn't find the information on
the arranger for this session Yeah but it doesn't sound like Jimmy

607
00:44:51,690 --> 00:45:04,180
Carroll.

608
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,380
Already a little more syrupy. Yeah. There might be more strings here, actually.

609
00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:13,560
Yeah, it sounds bigger.

610
00:45:15,020 --> 00:45:23,520
It's interesting that... Hey, oh. So good.

611
00:45:23,540 --> 00:45:25,110
Hey! Man, he's even looser on this.

612
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:30,400
Looser! Yeah.

613
00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:36,520
It's a nice arrangement. It is nice. It's a little better place in the mix, too.

614
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:51,140
It's...

615
00:45:54,220 --> 00:45:54,420
So

616
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,060
man, it's like Charlie Parker is right up on the mic, recorded beautifully.

617
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,620
Everyone else is, like, in the corner of the room or something, you know?

618
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,400
There are... there's some lore about the piano on both of these.

619
00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:07,370
Yeah. Bird wanted Bud. Yeah. Bird wanted Bud Powell. Bud Powell was...

620
00:46:07,380 --> 00:46:13,260
Nobody could find him around this time Sure
because he had got in a fight with, uh, some law

621
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:16,860
enforcement officers who were getting in a fight with Thelonious Monk.

622
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:19,700
Oh, right. That's right. This is like, uh, who knows if, how true this all is?

623
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:21,900
Yeah. Right? But this is the lore, and he wasn't available for the sessions.

624
00:46:21,940 --> 00:46:23,700
Right. Um He would've been a good call.

625
00:46:23,740 --> 00:46:27,300
He would've been a great call. Uh, not that, uh, you know, no, no shade to

626
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,440
Stan or to Bernie Layton there, uh, but it's a tough call.

627
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,510
Yeah. Like, you know, going toe-to-toe with Charlie Parker.

628
00:46:34,940 --> 00:46:37,080
It would've been interesting if Bud Powell would've been on these sessions, for

629
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:37,900
sure. For sure. Hey, Peter.

630
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,150
Hey, hey, Adam. We keep seeing in the comments,
"When are you guys gonna release an album?"

631
00:46:42,220 --> 00:46:47,030
Uh, we have two. We do have two. We have Sparks, and we have Groove Adjacent.

632
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:51,940
They're both available. That's not the names.
It's I. Sparks and I I. Groove Adjacent.

633
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,570
Those are Roman numerals, buddy. Oh, sorry !

634
00:46:53,580 --> 00:46:56,610
Yeah. Okay, I. Sparks, II. Groove Adjacent, got it.

635
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,540
They're on Apple Music. They're on Spotify.

636
00:46:58,550 --> 00:47:01,460
Yeah. They're on YouTube. We also have a, a
Trax YouTube channel where you can listen to

637
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,200
all these. You can check out the links in the show notes, and, you know, by the

638
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:08,640
way, we do have our own version of Just Friends at the end of this alp- uh,

639
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:11,860
episode Yeah you can check out. Yeah. Uh, Open Studio Music.

640
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:18,440
Back to the show. Okay, Peter, what do you wanna
hear? We got Laura. We got East of the Sun.

641
00:47:18,460 --> 00:47:20,600
Let's hear East of the Sun. Is it Lara or Laura?

642
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:23,880
Laura. I mean, from South St. Louis, it's Laura.

643
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:25,120
Laura?

644
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,360
Lara? Lara and Jeremy.

645
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,340
Jeremy and Laura.

646
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,600
It sounds like my Uncle Frank.

647
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:49,459
Build a dream house.

648
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,860
Oh, man, imminently, imminently lyrical birds playing.

649
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,520
You can hear every word. Oh, my, yeah.

650
00:48:00,540 --> 00:48:03,740
You can hear every lyric. I, I didn't even think
I knew the words to this, but now I remember

651
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,900
them.

652
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,780
Little French horn.

653
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,160
Little overseas action there.

654
00:48:19,020 --> 00:48:21,410
A little trip down under? No, not...

655
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:33,650
French horn crushes every time. Man, Bird on the

656
00:48:33,790 --> 00:48:38,610
alto! Such a vocal, lyrical, kind of Yeah, dude.

657
00:48:38,650 --> 00:48:43,990
French horn-y, cello. Yeah. You know? His sound
here is Yeah even warmer than before, too.

658
00:48:45,390 --> 00:48:47,930
His intonation, damn!

659
00:49:00,670 --> 00:49:04,569
Were we in Istanbul now for a couple of, couple bars? What's going on?

660
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:07,910
Marrakech?

661
00:49:09,230 --> 00:49:11,989
Putamayo?

662
00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:36,770
Effortless grooviness.

663
00:49:42,130 --> 00:49:44,580
I mean, I really think Bird's, like,

664
00:49:44,670 --> 00:49:48,370
um... You know, he was known for being such a great double-time

665
00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:52,050
player, having so much facility. Steppy-do- And by double time, it's like, here's

666
00:49:52,070 --> 00:49:55,330
the groove, right? And so he'd be boop-a-dee-lee-ah-dip, that's the regular.

667
00:49:55,370 --> 00:50:01,850
But steppa-dippa-dippa-do, that's the double time. But, like, I
think as good as that was, it was his ability to slide in and out of

668
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:04,210
it with cool stuff kind of in between there.

669
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:08,150
It was never like, ba-di-ba-di-ba-di-ba-di-ba-di-ba, like a machine, you know?

670
00:50:08,170 --> 00:50:09,200
It was always very Not at all.

671
00:50:09,210 --> 00:50:15,730
No, it was like, bo-doop-a-doop-a-dippa-dippa-dippa-dippa-dee-dee-a-doop-a-doo.
Like, man, such innovative ways of getting in and out of it there.

672
00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:19,570
Ease, relaxation Yeah and lyrical, like you said, above all.

673
00:50:19,580 --> 00:50:22,330
And there's- he's never that far away from the melody or the blues.

674
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:24,060
No. And I think It's all right there at the surface.

675
00:50:24,110 --> 00:50:27,420
I think when he was doing these sessions, I think he set, set, set an intention for

676
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:30,230
his session. We talk about setting an intention for our practice at yoga.

677
00:50:30,270 --> 00:50:33,290
He definitely set an intention Say more to kill it.

678
00:50:33,350 --> 00:50:34,320
Oh, to kill it. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

679
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:35,980
Just to come in and kill it. You know what I'm saying?

680
00:50:35,980 --> 00:50:41,450
Say less. Like, you can just Say medium amount. No,
I mean, he's just like, he's got that intention.

681
00:50:41,470 --> 00:50:44,930
Like, there's the spontaneity, but, like, I don't buy this like, "Oh, he's a

682
00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:48,430
crazy, savage genius. He just put a horn in his mouth, and he can play." That's

683
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:52,050
bullshit. It was like... But it's also, like,

684
00:50:52,290 --> 00:50:56,230
he, he knew how to take the intellectual command of- Like, if you know music, you

685
00:50:56,270 --> 00:50:58,970
know how hard this stuff and how revolutionary it was at that time.

686
00:50:59,010 --> 00:51:01,410
Even, even today, if you come out and play like this, people are gonna be like,

687
00:51:01,470 --> 00:51:05,010
"Huh?" You know? But then, like, he had the beauty and the

688
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:08,400
soul and the sound with that as well.

689
00:51:08,430 --> 00:51:12,830
It's a very sophisticated thing Wonderful and you
could be like, "Well, he was super talented." He was.

690
00:51:12,910 --> 00:51:16,180
But then, but you could also be like, "He's super, like, practiced a whole bunch,"

691
00:51:16,210 --> 00:51:18,440
so that can come out sounding a certain way.

692
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:22,390
So it's like he's a tastemaker of his own playing and stuff, so he's able to

693
00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:25,280
put this together, respond to the situations, play...

694
00:51:25,290 --> 00:51:28,940
I mean, this, this stuff is hard to navigate with those really thick arrangements.

695
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:31,770
There's only, like, two or four bars on most of these arrangement where it's just

696
00:51:31,810 --> 00:51:34,250
the rhythm section and him. Yeah. And he has no problem with that.

697
00:51:34,330 --> 00:51:36,730
No. But he also has no problem getting in between the other stuff.

698
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:39,380
Like, he was the ultimate, like, listening.

699
00:51:39,390 --> 00:51:42,199
As much as he's playing, like, he's listening and seeing how his thing could fit

700
00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:43,650
in. I mean, you've played a bunch with strings.

701
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:46,610
You know how it is when you get in a live room with an orchestra like this?

702
00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:49,230
Yeah. Even a small orchestra. It's intoxicating!

703
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:53,610
It is. It is. Like, you really are feeling the vibes, and I don't mean that in some

704
00:51:53,730 --> 00:51:58,170
esoteric way. I mean, literally, you're feeling those
sound vibrations Yeah all around you. It's intense.

705
00:51:58,190 --> 00:52:00,370
Yeah. I remember the first time I was on stage with the St.

706
00:52:00,390 --> 00:52:03,870
Louis Symphony Orchestra, I thought I was gonna have a panic attack because it was

707
00:52:03,950 --> 00:52:07,190
so- I was right in the middle for a pop show, right in the middle of the violins.

708
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:08,450
Right. And it was so

709
00:52:09,290 --> 00:52:13,270
intense, just, like, the feeling of being, um, surrounded by

710
00:52:13,370 --> 00:52:15,000
all these musicians and the sounds that they can make.

711
00:52:15,010 --> 00:52:17,790
It's like, it's like running into- like you're by yourself running into a gang,

712
00:52:17,850 --> 00:52:20,270
right? There's like, eight of them or 10 of them, and they've all got violins.

713
00:52:20,290 --> 00:52:23,230
Oh, my gosh. And then there's another... That's just the violins one, right?

714
00:52:23,650 --> 00:52:25,370
Oh, the violas are who you gotta really watch out for.

715
00:52:25,380 --> 00:52:27,699
Oh, right, right. Um, man, and Watch your, watch your wallet.

716
00:52:27,790 --> 00:52:30,919
One shout-out on this whole album, too, is they picked banger after banger.

717
00:52:30,919 --> 00:52:33,310
Yeah. So here's the track list of between both these sessions.

718
00:52:33,330 --> 00:52:36,310
So just friends, obviously. Yeah. Incredible. Lovers No More.

719
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:41,880
Uh, Everything Happens to Me, an incredible song Yeah
by Matt Dennis. Actually, it's, it's a crazy good song.

720
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,960
Matt Dennis, isn't it? The lyrics of it are, are wonderful.

721
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:50,430
April in Paris, Summertime, I Didn't Know What Time It Was Ooh which
is an amazing song. If I Should Lose You, Dancing in the Dark Yeah.

722
00:52:50,530 --> 00:52:55,770
Out of Nowhere, Laura. Laura. East of the Sun and West of the Moon.

723
00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:59,510
Mm. They Can't Take That Away from Me, Easy
to Love, I'm in the Mood for Love, and then

724
00:52:59,530 --> 00:53:02,330
it ends with I'll Remember April.

725
00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:08,070
It's a... That's a great Which I think was actually the first... Was it?

726
00:53:08,290 --> 00:53:09,980
April in Paris was the first one they written.

727
00:53:12,330 --> 00:53:20,100
What a

728
00:53:22,330 --> 00:53:23,110
song!

729
00:53:57,490 --> 00:54:00,210
Very oboe-centric recordings. You know where Mitch is on

730
00:54:00,220 --> 00:54:02,250
that?

731
00:54:03,790 --> 00:54:06,470
You know, I think it's So to the oboe.

732
00:54:06,510 --> 00:54:08,730
Yeah. I think it's a very period-specific thing.

733
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:12,350
Yeah. You don't hear, even in, in the

734
00:54:12,410 --> 00:54:16,350
context of instrumental recordings, the oboe used as

735
00:54:17,250 --> 00:54:21,230
much Right as much as even, like, the clarinet or the flute you would today.

736
00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:23,710
Right. Oboe is, I don't- I don't wanna say it's,

737
00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:29,990
it's lost favor, but it was definitely more popular Yeah as a
melodic device. Like, it's, when you listen to, when you listen to

738
00:54:30,010 --> 00:54:32,040
soundtracks to these old movies, oboe is everywhere.

739
00:54:32,110 --> 00:54:33,900
I know. Absolutely everywhere. Was there a certain... Wasn't there a certain...

740
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:36,470
I mean, I was joking earlier about triple reason.

741
00:54:36,490 --> 00:54:40,130
But wasn't there a certain amount of exoticism at during this time with hearing?

742
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:51,100
Like, that was kind of what you were putting into Putamayoizing, pu Yeah Putamayoizing that sort of sound
there maybe? maybe there's, there is some of that, of like the sort of like Right yeah, exoticism Yeah

743
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:52,670
of the sound. Yeah, yeah, I hear it.

744
00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:56,180
You know, the, the, the thing that strikes me about it here is, as an interesting

745
00:54:56,270 --> 00:54:57,100
choice, is it's

746
00:54:58,170 --> 00:55:07,110
close to the alto saxophone Mm in both range Right and in the timbre. I mean, obviously
Like, not in terms of number of reeds. That would be a double reed, my friend.

747
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,650
It's two reeds. But isn't it like, like what would this sound like if they would've

748
00:55:09,690 --> 00:55:18,160
chose the cello as the, the Right as the other As the counter Counter, or the
French horn The melody horn. Yeah or the, or a clarinet or some other Yeah reed?

749
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,390
Yeah. I think, or even a bassoon, which would've been in a different range.

750
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,610
Right. You know what I mean? Right.

751
00:55:22,690 --> 00:55:26,340
I do think that's interesting that they chose, on most of these songs, the counter

752
00:55:26,450 --> 00:55:32,690
instrument is in a similar range Yeah and it's a little
bit more of a harsher, but reed sound, as opposed to, like,

753
00:55:33,230 --> 00:55:39,690
a brass or a string. Well, you are I just think Though it is
interesting, and you're speaking lovingly, somewhat lovingly of it.

754
00:55:39,870 --> 00:55:43,610
I will note we're not there yet, but when we get to quibble bits, it's possible

755
00:55:43,650 --> 00:55:46,120
that this instrument may show up in both of our assessments.

756
00:55:46,130 --> 00:55:48,820
But I digress Um And I prelude.

757
00:55:48,830 --> 00:55:51,210
Well, let's get to our category, speaking of them.

758
00:55:51,250 --> 00:55:52,760
Desert Island tracks off of this, what do you got?

759
00:55:52,790 --> 00:55:58,710
I mean, Just Friends. You know That's... Yeah, you can't Which is can't argue with
that which is the last track on the original, and I think it was the first track on

760
00:55:58,790 --> 00:56:02,710
here, and I just think that, yeah, I w- I- it's gonna,

761
00:56:03,070 --> 00:56:05,670
it's gonna come up again in the Apex moment, so I'll wait to tell the rest of my

762
00:56:05,710 --> 00:56:07,750
story. What do you got? My Desert Island track is Summertime.

763
00:56:07,790 --> 00:56:10,050
That's a good call. I love the arrangement. I also love the tune Summertime.

764
00:56:10,130 --> 00:56:11,850
I know it's overplayed at this point.

765
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:16,180
Everybody from like I mean, it may be the strongest,
like, composition, and track, and so- and

766
00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:18,960
everything, certainly the bluesiness on this I'm still a sucker for it, dude.

767
00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:20,320
It's so great! I love it. Oh, it's great.

768
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,130
I love it. I mean, it's probably a little bit stronger of a song than Just Friends.

769
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:26,690
I read, though, that Charlie Parker apparently loved Just Friends.

770
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:29,290
That was, like, his favorite standard. Well,
you can hear it in the way Yeah he plays it.

771
00:56:29,310 --> 00:56:31,330
And so maybe that's what pushes it over the edge for me.

772
00:56:31,340 --> 00:56:34,800
I, I think it's a flawless solo, too, which is very rare that you hear so many

773
00:56:34,850 --> 00:56:38,310
notes. Well, I think this is gonna lead into
our Apex moments. What is your Apex moment?

774
00:56:38,350 --> 00:56:42,150
Well, at 1:21 on Just Friends, kind of the second of his, whatever, three or four

775
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:43,720
solos. When, you know, when it, when it...

776
00:56:43,790 --> 00:56:47,610
After the Mitch solo, so but, um, when it, uh, transposes up a little

777
00:56:47,650 --> 00:56:50,450
bit. Let's hear it.

778
00:56:52,830 --> 00:56:54,530
He's swinging! Yeah.

779
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:57,730
A little bit of Jay McShann in there.

780
00:57:01,010 --> 00:57:02,790
It's crazy. This!

781
00:57:04,590 --> 00:57:05,640
Oh, yeah. Oh, man, it's so weird.

782
00:57:05,690 --> 00:57:07,610
Oh, my God, that's great. And then back to

783
00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:14,710
like...

784
00:57:15,590 --> 00:57:21,210
Oh, so many little things. Oh!

785
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:27,010
Pull it, pull back, pull back.

786
00:57:28,650 --> 00:57:30,930
Oh, every phrase perfect. Every phrase is perfect.

787
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:36,450
And crazy. Like Very, you know? Yeah, so I mean,
I realize that's, like, a lot of Apex moments,

788
00:57:36,470 --> 00:57:38,310
but he kinda... He jumps back in there.

789
00:57:38,350 --> 00:57:40,910
I mean, the earlier solo's better than the later stuff, but, like, that whole

790
00:57:40,970 --> 00:57:44,630
period there It's amazing it's just, like, banger
after... And, and you, it can kinda be like, "Ah!

791
00:57:44,650 --> 00:57:46,070
That's too much." Somehow he pulls it off.

792
00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:47,410
He pulls it off. He pulls it off.

793
00:57:47,450 --> 00:57:52,590
My favorite part of this whole album Yeah my Apex moment, the
moment that I think about when I think about the album, is

794
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:54,490
the intro to April in Paris Mm and then when Bird

795
00:57:54,530 --> 00:57:58,430
enters.

796
00:58:02,790 --> 00:58:04,520
So this is, like, the most epic moment, too,

797
00:58:04,530 --> 00:58:08,690
probably.

798
00:58:11,310 --> 00:58:13,690
It's, like, everything I love. So, you know,

799
00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:19,190
I write for strings. Yeah. I fancy myself the nice, the nice pops orchestra writer.

800
00:58:19,250 --> 00:58:20,940
I like to write pop stuff for the orchestra.

801
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:22,370
You like to schlock it up every now and then?

802
00:58:22,410 --> 00:58:26,370
Buddy, don't tempt me- ... with a good time, 'cause I will schlock the hell out of

803
00:58:26,390 --> 00:58:28,930
that arrangement. That's a good schlock. But I love that stuff, man.

804
00:58:28,940 --> 00:58:31,590
Yeah. Those old Hollywood strings... Like, we
were, we were having lunch with our friend,

805
00:58:31,630 --> 00:58:32,890
Sean Wilde, who plays with the St. Louis Symphony.

806
00:58:32,910 --> 00:58:34,619
Yeah. And they were doing... You know, they do these orchestras now.

807
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:41,210
They do these programs where they'll do a, a film Yeah and the, the orchestra will
play the music Yeah to the film, and they were playing the music to Wizard of Oz.

808
00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:42,790
Yeah. That stuff is written so well.

809
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,290
I know. Those string parts are written so beautifully.

810
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:48,250
So good. And this is among my favorites of that era, you know?

811
00:58:48,330 --> 00:58:51,510
I totally agree. And I think it's like, you know, when we talk, and we, we, we're

812
00:58:51,570 --> 00:58:54,150
lovingly talking about schlock, we don't even actually know the name of the word.

813
00:58:54,170 --> 00:58:58,090
It just sounds fun. But it's, it's this idea of, like, when

814
00:58:58,150 --> 00:59:01,390
you write something so Hollywood, so typical, but then you just own it.

815
00:59:01,410 --> 00:59:04,130
The way the string plays Hell yeah every one of them, and this is a small string.

816
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:05,610
Like, you can hear the individual player.

817
00:59:05,650 --> 00:59:09,360
You can hear it, yeah. But they're just, like, they're
just, like, digging in, and then when Bird comes

818
00:59:09,469 --> 00:59:11,410
in It's not more than two people apart, probably.

819
00:59:11,450 --> 00:59:13,720
Yeah, it's amazing It can't be that it's like, it's got the, the...

820
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,370
It makes you think of the Hollywood Yeah fountain coming out of the swimming pool.

821
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:19,910
But it's like, when he comes in, he does something very interesting.

822
00:59:19,970 --> 00:59:22,570
He, he doesn't... Like, w- the obvious thing would be, like,

823
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:26,570
ba, da, da, da. He comes in in

824
00:59:26,690 --> 00:59:28,030
time. Ba, ga, da, ga, da, da.

825
00:59:28,050 --> 00:59:30,700
Yeah, it's like the pickup. It's like, shippity, pa, da, da, da.

826
00:59:31,090 --> 00:59:33,120
So sophisticated. It's like he just falls into the party.

827
00:59:33,290 --> 00:59:35,250
"Hey, how you doing?" But it's so charming.

828
00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:37,150
It's very It's very, very cool very unique.

829
00:59:37,210 --> 00:59:40,730
Uh, bespoke Great call. Great call. Thank
you. Bespoke playlist title, what do you got?

830
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:45,790
Um, Rugged Individualism. Isn't that a cologne from the '80s?

831
00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:49,930
That's right, by Drakkar Noir. No, I mean,

832
00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:52,930
I, I might even pull back on the... My, my thinking on this was, like, Charlie

833
00:59:52,970 --> 00:59:56,820
Parker really, like, I, I'm... This has been

834
00:59:56,850 --> 00:59:58,880
really good for me to listen to this again, 'cause I used to listen to this so

835
00:59:58,950 --> 01:00:02,180
much. I always felt like Charlie Parker just, like, carried this whole album, and

836
01:00:02,250 --> 01:00:05,390
obviously he does. Like, you take away Charlie Parker from this, and you give every

837
01:00:05,410 --> 01:00:08,870
one of those solos to Mitch Miller, it's not gonna be the same thing, right?

838
01:00:08,970 --> 01:00:10,840
Um I mean, this is a feature for Charlie Parker.

839
01:00:10,990 --> 01:00:12,240
It's a It's a showcase for his talents.

840
01:00:12,270 --> 01:00:15,790
Right. Yeah. But, like, you find these different
moments where, like, the orchestra is just

841
01:00:15,830 --> 01:00:21,640
killing it, and the arranging, none of it's, like, groundbreaking, necessarily
No, not at all the way that Charlie Parker, but it's more by contrast.

842
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:23,010
It's sweet. Yeah. It's syrupy. It's supposed to be.

843
01:00:23,070 --> 01:00:26,010
Yeah, but I, but I do think... And, and the rhythm section playing is so strong.

844
01:00:26,030 --> 01:00:29,560
But anyway, Rugged Individualism. I have Music Snob Cafe Jazz.

845
01:00:29,590 --> 01:00:33,190
Oh. You know all this crazy, stupid AI jazz Yes, yeah playlists that you find?

846
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:37,090
Yeah. Right? Doesn't sound like this. No,
like, this is the one for the, the music snob.

847
01:00:37,150 --> 01:00:42,096
Right. Like, if they want, "Ah, like, we're starting
Cafe a cafe, but we're all... But it's in-"...

848
01:00:42,126 --> 01:00:45,766
it's in, like, Queens, and it's, it's occupied by nothing

849
01:00:46,006 --> 01:00:49,916
but, like, 19-year-old hipsters. This is their cafe jazz.

850
01:00:49,966 --> 01:00:52,926
Right. I like it. And this might actually be And it's Japanese jazz only.

851
01:00:52,996 --> 01:00:55,026
Right. Exactly right. Nothing recorded in the United States.

852
01:00:55,146 --> 01:00:56,166
Okay, here we go. Quibble bits. What do you got?

853
01:00:56,186 --> 01:01:00,006
Okay, quibble bits. Um, the oboe, the English horn, and then back to the

854
01:01:00,086 --> 01:01:03,716
oboe again. I feel this is an oboe... I, I just- it's so distracting.

855
01:01:03,746 --> 01:01:06,986
Every- I mean, look, some- the Mitch Miller solos, which we didn't harp on here,

856
01:01:06,996 --> 01:01:10,406
'cause we, we- you know, when they go- when they- when he plays high, we go low.

857
01:01:10,426 --> 01:01:11,636
When he plays low, we play high.

858
01:01:11,646 --> 01:01:13,566
Well, not usually, but we do now.

859
01:01:13,686 --> 01:01:17,675
No, but the, but the idea is, like, yes, there's the element of,

860
01:01:17,726 --> 01:01:21,116
well, how- everyone's- no one's gonna sound good playing after Charlie Parker.

861
01:01:21,166 --> 01:01:24,786
I would say, see above, ah, Stan Freeman. Stan Freeman?

862
01:01:24,886 --> 01:01:28,286
Uh, is that... Yeah, Stan Freeman on piano, who, who held his own.

863
01:01:28,366 --> 01:01:30,656
Um, so I just... Yeah, I mean, those are the...

864
01:01:30,666 --> 01:01:34,386
But I'm, am, am I, am I punching down to, to, to well-tread

865
01:01:34,426 --> 01:01:37,355
territory to say that these are not great oboe solos on here?

866
01:01:37,406 --> 01:01:39,846
Obviously, Mitch Miller, from what I'm hearing, was an amazing oboe player in the

867
01:01:39,866 --> 01:01:43,156
classical field. And both oboes, I think, sound, sound great.

868
01:01:43,186 --> 01:01:49,346
It's just, like we said, like Yeah it, it is a little,
it is a little distracting because it's so close to the

869
01:01:49,406 --> 01:01:51,076
alto. I w- I just wonder It's slocker, too.

870
01:01:51,126 --> 01:01:56,846
Well, it might be. Little slocker. But, um, you know, my biggest quibble bit,
honestly, I know I have here No, please. No, let's... I want you to read what you have.

871
01:01:56,866 --> 01:01:59,166
I wrote it here just 'cause I know Peter's feelings on the oboe.

872
01:01:59,226 --> 01:02:00,716
I, I put in my quibble bit, "Not enough oboe."

873
01:02:00,766 --> 01:02:02,376
I love the oboe. First of all, let me just say that.

874
01:02:02,386 --> 01:02:03,996
I love the oboe, too. I think it's one of the most It's a beautiful instrument.

875
01:02:04,006 --> 01:02:06,736
Yeah. No, I put in, "Not enough oboe," which that was just for you, Peter.

876
01:02:06,746 --> 01:02:10,136
More, more cowbell. But as I'm listening to it, you know, I realize, the...

877
01:02:10,136 --> 01:02:15,316
Especially the first session, the first six tracks Yeah with
these kinds of arrangements that Jimmy Carroll did, right?

878
01:02:15,316 --> 01:02:18,586
Yeah. These big, beautiful arrangements with
all these, like, diminished things that are

879
01:02:18,626 --> 01:02:22,506
happening inside the chords. If this would've been, instead

880
01:02:22,566 --> 01:02:30,226
of what I'm assuming was, like, a 12-piece orchestra Mm of strings or maybe
10 Yeah if this would've been 25 people You wanna up the budget, my friend.

881
01:02:30,306 --> 01:02:32,766
I think Norman Yeah. Let's up the budget.

882
01:02:32,776 --> 01:02:34,906
Right. Or maybe Mitch. Mitch was the A&R guy from Mercury.

883
01:02:34,926 --> 01:02:36,386
Yeah. Up the budget on this, you know, buddy?

884
01:02:36,396 --> 01:02:37,886
Well, he wanted his oboe to come through, apparently.

885
01:02:37,946 --> 01:02:39,706
Maybe, but let's get some string players in here.

886
01:02:39,716 --> 01:02:43,026
Right. Let's get a real session of, of a real string orchestra to do these lush

887
01:02:43,086 --> 01:02:45,356
arrangements. Right. And you can hear it on the second sessions. There's...

888
01:02:45,366 --> 01:02:49,146
It's, it's not as much as even I would like
for that It's not that, yeah but it's better.

889
01:02:49,156 --> 01:02:51,706
It's better. You know, and it makes them... It makes the arrangements sound better.

890
01:02:51,746 --> 01:02:54,086
That's, that's a great take, and, I mean, it really would've been different.

891
01:02:54,096 --> 01:02:57,466
And I, I think, you know, sometimes we have the nostalgia and the connection with,

892
01:02:57,486 --> 01:02:59,786
like, "Oh, everything's perf-" This is not a perfect record.

893
01:02:59,826 --> 01:03:03,776
I know we throw that term around. I said that I thought, like, and I

894
01:03:03,826 --> 01:03:07,786
stand by that, that at least on... A- actually, there may be other tunes, too, but

895
01:03:07,986 --> 01:03:11,846
I think that there's not a note that is not perfect that Charlie

896
01:03:11,866 --> 01:03:14,546
Parker plays on Just Friends Mm on any of the solos on that.

897
01:03:14,586 --> 01:03:15,686
It's- on any of these solos on there.

898
01:03:15,726 --> 01:03:18,496
Yeah, and it's not that there's not different choices that you could make, but, I

899
01:03:18,546 --> 01:03:22,136
mean, it's just like on- like, e- each one is chef's kiss, chef's kiss, chef's

900
01:03:22,136 --> 01:03:25,675
kiss, chef's kiss. Sure. Whereas the arrangements,
the, the, some of the oboes, you know, these other

901
01:03:25,766 --> 01:03:28,606
things... Like, there's enough other stuff in this rec- on this record where you're

902
01:03:28,646 --> 01:03:31,636
like, as a whole... And it's always a group effort, right? This is...

903
01:03:31,666 --> 01:03:33,306
It's never just Charlie Parker playing alone.

904
01:03:33,376 --> 01:03:37,066
Mm. But he elevates this to the point where
some of these other, these whatever quibble

905
01:03:37,126 --> 01:03:41,046
bits are, that we are talking about, kind of fall by the wayside just by his, his,

906
01:03:41,086 --> 01:03:42,675
the, the massive artistry that he brings to it.

907
01:03:42,675 --> 01:03:45,726
Yeah, they are just bits Yeah after all. Thermometer, what do you got?

908
01:03:45,766 --> 01:03:48,606
Well, okay, I'm gonna... Can I say what both of ours are?

909
01:03:48,646 --> 01:03:50,946
Yeah. Because I have a quibble bit with you.

910
01:03:51,026 --> 01:03:53,216
Oh. I have a five Okay and you have a four.

911
01:03:53,266 --> 01:03:56,076
Right. Tell me the difference. Now, now, you famously...

912
01:03:56,186 --> 01:03:59,146
I feel like you're going four because I, when I go high, you go low, is what you're

913
01:03:59,166 --> 01:04:01,326
doing. I mean, it's one degree difference.

914
01:04:01,366 --> 01:04:02,626
Well, no, it's not one degree. It's 10%.

915
01:04:02,646 --> 01:04:04,366
Did you ever see that? This one goes to 11.

916
01:04:04,386 --> 01:04:06,046
And it's like, well, why don't you just make 10, 11 a little louder?

917
01:04:06,066 --> 01:04:09,276
Are you afraid to go five? 'Cause clearly I'm not afraid to go five on the

918
01:04:09,276 --> 01:04:13,966
thermometer. I'm slightly afraid to go five,
just because I know you're gonna go five, and

919
01:04:14,026 --> 01:04:16,955
so just to be a little contrarian, I want to go something different.

920
01:04:16,955 --> 01:04:21,866
Okay, there, you admitted it. So Like, by the way, I filled this out Like,
you actually think this is a, a, a less than I filled this sheet out first.

921
01:04:21,886 --> 01:04:23,976
But do you think that this is a less... But you know...

922
01:04:24,006 --> 01:04:25,386
What did you think I was gonna put on this?

923
01:04:25,426 --> 01:04:27,926
Five. This is a classic five. Is it?

924
01:04:27,986 --> 01:04:31,235
It's- it is. What's... Well, what the... Forget it. Okay.

925
01:04:31,446 --> 01:04:33,896
Forget it. Okay, um I love it!

926
01:04:33,896 --> 01:04:37,546
So you think, you think that this is less I love that
the thermometer has been broken this whole time.

927
01:04:37,606 --> 01:04:40,626
Yeah. It doesn't work, and we still do it, and I love it, man.

928
01:04:40,646 --> 01:04:44,106
Well, let's talk about things that are broken. Better than Kind of Blue.

929
01:04:44,206 --> 01:04:47,026
Oh, mm. I love your answer here.

930
01:04:47,066 --> 01:04:49,286
Yeah, but it depends on what you like.

931
01:04:49,306 --> 01:04:50,906
Well, then couldn't that just lead... You know what?

932
01:04:50,946 --> 01:04:54,726
Here's what I mean by this. Put that every week then,
because that's always gonna be, it depends on what you

933
01:04:54,746 --> 01:04:58,146
like. If everything's sub- is subjective, then nothing is subjective.

934
01:04:58,226 --> 01:05:01,946
Here's where I'm conflicted: I think, overall, Charlie

935
01:05:01,966 --> 01:05:05,016
Parker's playing on this album is better than any of the playing on Kind of Blue.

936
01:05:05,016 --> 01:05:06,966
So you think this record is better than Kind of Blue?

937
01:05:06,986 --> 01:05:09,046
Mm, I don't know. Because that's what the question is.

938
01:05:09,086 --> 01:05:10,656
It's a hard... I- this is a tough one.

939
01:05:10,666 --> 01:05:12,726
Is that a hard question? It is hard for me to answer.

940
01:05:12,786 --> 01:05:15,996
Let me help you. Yes or no? It's like we're in Congress, you know?

941
01:05:16,086 --> 01:05:19,666
Uh, yes or no, is this album better than Kind of

942
01:05:19,706 --> 01:05:24,186
Blue? As in Okay, so you can't, can't do it.

943
01:05:24,266 --> 01:05:28,246
No. I'll do it. No, it's- ... as an album, as a work of, like, complete

944
01:05:28,326 --> 01:05:30,746
art, it is Yeah more inconsistent than Kind of Blue is.

945
01:05:30,786 --> 01:05:32,066
Well, it depends on what you like.

946
01:05:32,106 --> 01:05:33,546
That's what I... That's what I'm saying.

947
01:05:33,586 --> 01:05:36,846
But if you like the greatest improviser- ...

948
01:05:37,466 --> 01:05:40,666
in the world, at, I think maybe his greatest improvising

949
01:05:40,726 --> 01:05:45,006
moments, this might be for you. Yeah. This, I mean, I
would, I would agree By the way, they're both for you.

950
01:05:45,186 --> 01:05:47,926
Yeah, like, for sure. This is... It's a stupid category to begin with, Peter.

951
01:05:47,986 --> 01:05:51,606
I think that I blame you for it, by the way-
... because we shouldn't be comparing art like

952
01:05:51,666 --> 01:05:54,646
this, man. No, no, no, I think it's just, to us, is it better?

953
01:05:54,686 --> 01:05:56,886
You know, and I think, well, look, when we talk about Kind of Blue, that

954
01:05:56,926 --> 01:06:04,286
immediately puts it into that category of, like, Innervisions Yeah, yeah, it's
just Asia, these records where you could be like, "It's just the, everything about

955
01:06:04,306 --> 01:06:06,036
it, the production Yeah everybody's playing." Yeah, yeah.

956
01:06:06,036 --> 01:06:08,946
And No, famously, you always put maybe on
this, by the way, but I understand it on this

957
01:06:08,986 --> 01:06:11,946
one. It's hard to listen to Just Friends and then be like, "Anything's better than

958
01:06:11,986 --> 01:06:12,946
this." Right. You know what I mean?

959
01:06:12,986 --> 01:06:16,906
Like, and you could say, like, Just Friends minus, like, 15 seconds, if you took it

960
01:06:16,946 --> 01:06:18,766
away, would that make it worse? Poor double album.

961
01:06:18,786 --> 01:06:22,716
No, no, no. No, no, I'm just saying, like Poor double album
like, you really... Whereas Kind of Blue is sort of...

962
01:06:22,726 --> 01:06:25,726
Well, isn't Kind of Blue as famous as being like, there's nothing you need to take

963
01:06:25,766 --> 01:06:27,726
away or add to it? Oh, that is a perfect album.

964
01:06:27,786 --> 01:06:31,336
Yeah. Now, some people might be like, "I don't like modal jazz. I don't like...

965
01:06:31,366 --> 01:06:32,976
It's boring," or whatever. That's true. You know what?

966
01:06:32,986 --> 01:06:36,306
But if you like that kind of thing, it's very hard to find fault with it.

967
01:06:36,366 --> 01:06:40,486
100%. It's a well-balanced record. This record is out of balance.

968
01:06:40,506 --> 01:06:43,666
I agree. But that's part of the beauty of it
and part of the artistry of Charlie Parker.

969
01:06:43,706 --> 01:06:45,956
Like, he's gonna push almost anything out of balance.

970
01:06:45,966 --> 01:06:48,426
It's also, you know what's weird about it, about Charlie Parker with Strings,

971
01:06:48,466 --> 01:06:51,776
the... One of the strange things I find about it is, like, like I said, it is his

972
01:06:51,846 --> 01:06:58,906
best playing. Yeah. These incredible, beautiful melodies that he's playing, like
Yeah like, just pouring out of him, these un- these unbelievable bebop lines.

973
01:06:58,926 --> 01:07:01,826
But it's like we said in the beginning I, I agree. It, it is his best playing.

974
01:07:01,886 --> 01:07:10,086
It's not really a bebop album. No, it's not a bebop Like, when we were just listening
to Koko... this is bebop. So put your beret on, get your Mary Juana, your Mary

975
01:07:10,166 --> 01:07:13,506
Jane going. Okay, that's just straight up stereotyping.

976
01:07:13,546 --> 01:07:17,126
Well, no, no, but when we say that, like, this is his best, that doesn't mean other

977
01:07:17,166 --> 01:07:20,566
things- this might equal it. I could totally make an argument for that.

978
01:07:20,626 --> 01:07:23,586
So, like, the best can be... Like, there's the best Charlie Parker, and that's a

979
01:07:23,626 --> 01:07:27,026
bunch of tracks. It's not everything he recorded. He had some, some, some dips.

980
01:07:27,066 --> 01:07:30,806
Yeah. But it's like once you're in that top
Charlie Parker category, and he just somehow

981
01:07:30,886 --> 01:07:33,616
sort of stays in that on this record He does which is really exciting.

982
01:07:33,746 --> 01:07:38,615
Yeah, it's, it's pretty amazing. So for better
than KOB, not to belabor the point, I have...

983
01:07:38,645 --> 01:07:39,916
Well, ask me the question so I can answer it, too.

984
01:07:39,926 --> 01:07:41,546
Is it better than Kind of Blue?

985
01:07:41,586 --> 01:07:45,886
Its highs are. Yes or no? Damn. Well, I was afraid you were gonna do that.

986
01:07:45,926 --> 01:07:49,426
The best, like, the, the heights of this are, but the lows kind of pull it down,

987
01:07:49,526 --> 01:07:52,026
so I gotcha. I gotcha. Not the lows, but Accoutrements!

988
01:07:52,066 --> 01:07:55,646
I mean, I have seven, because, uh, I, I mean, this is a

989
01:07:55,726 --> 01:07:59,526
little... The, I would have said lower, but, but first of all, it's

990
01:07:59,606 --> 01:08:01,356
very hard to say, like, what's the original one?

991
01:08:01,366 --> 01:08:04,126
But this is the closest, I think, to the original. I think the back is great.

992
01:08:04,186 --> 01:08:06,726
I think the front is so super well-balanced. I like the colors.

993
01:08:06,786 --> 01:08:09,326
So I don't understand the... I mean, I understand he's the A&R guy.

994
01:08:09,346 --> 01:08:12,176
This takes off some points to have Mitch Miller so prominently...

995
01:08:12,226 --> 01:08:15,426
I mean, Charlie Parker is bigger, but it's so weird, his horn in between his legs.

996
01:08:15,486 --> 01:08:18,776
I'm not totally sure. I don't think this is the 1949 original one.

997
01:08:18,826 --> 01:08:22,156
Okay, so The original with the six is gorgeous. It's just got birds drawn on it.

998
01:08:22,166 --> 01:08:22,906
This is the six.

999
01:08:24,286 --> 01:08:28,016
Yeah. That's just the six? Yeah. I don't know. I, I
thought I saw some April in Paris, Summertime. Yeah.

1000
01:08:28,026 --> 01:08:29,706
Maybe it's the second one. This is what I'm saying.

1001
01:08:29,766 --> 01:08:31,387
Yeah. This is so hard to tell.

1002
01:08:31,406 --> 01:08:33,026
Yeah. But that one, not this one.

1003
01:08:33,066 --> 01:08:34,306
Yeah. This one is a six for me.

1004
01:08:34,366 --> 01:08:37,306
Okay. Like, it's okay, but the, the pictures
are, like you said, the illustrations are

1005
01:08:37,346 --> 01:08:41,486
weird. Yeah. You got double M on there, but But
look at that picture of Buddy Rich and Ray Brown.

1006
01:08:41,526 --> 01:08:42,427
That's very cool. That's a great picture.

1007
01:08:42,467 --> 01:08:44,186
Very, very cool. Yeah, I mean, that is really good.

1008
01:08:44,206 --> 01:08:45,547
Yeah, that picture of Mitch Miller on the back.

1009
01:08:45,606 --> 01:08:50,346
That's killing. But the other one with just the,
the hand-drawn birds, I think Yeah is really good.

1010
01:08:50,366 --> 01:08:51,837
Yeah. Oh, that one! Yeah, yeah, I know which one you're talking about.

1011
01:08:51,846 --> 01:08:56,686
What do you got up next? Um, up next, you know
what? I'm gonna go a little, a little Oh, my gosh.

1012
01:08:56,696 --> 01:08:59,047
Well, yeah, I'm gonna go a little bit, uh... Well, why don't you do yours first?

1013
01:08:59,056 --> 01:09:00,126
'Cause I think mine's more of a departure.

1014
01:09:00,266 --> 01:09:02,906
Yours is I have Clifford, Clifford Brown with Strings. Obvious choice.

1015
01:09:02,967 --> 01:09:04,946
That's a great call. It's, it's, it's definitely It's obvious, but great.

1016
01:09:05,026 --> 01:09:07,677
Straight down the middle. Yeah. I mean, that would be an inspiring...

1017
01:09:07,726 --> 01:09:11,366
Like, that's actually one of the only things where there wouldn't be a dip.

1018
01:09:11,387 --> 01:09:13,717
Now, whether or not you could say Charlie Parker, but, you know what I'm saying,

1019
01:09:13,746 --> 01:09:17,706
like, that is an inspired record. As I'm saying it,
it's kind of a boring call, but it's a great album.

1020
01:09:17,726 --> 01:09:21,526
Yeah. No, no, no, you... It's great. So I got Hothouse Flowers by Wynton Marsalis.

1021
01:09:21,566 --> 01:09:26,106
That is interesting. Yeah, because it's different.
Like, I feel like Clifford Brown with Strings is kind

1022
01:09:26,146 --> 01:09:29,315
of close enough to this that You won this category.
That's a great No, I don't That's an interesting call.

1023
01:09:29,326 --> 01:09:33,286
I would just say, I'd say all these, but th- those three, oddly enough, I think

1024
01:09:33,326 --> 01:09:37,315
Hothouse Flowers is one of my favorite Wynton Marsalis records. There, I said it.

1025
01:09:37,326 --> 01:09:39,887
And I... Look, I wanna just say That's Lester Mattis's favorite.

1026
01:09:39,927 --> 01:09:40,866
Oh, interesting! I grew up with this album.

1027
01:09:40,906 --> 01:09:42,416
I don't hear people talking about that record a lot.

1028
01:09:42,416 --> 01:09:44,177
We, I, I know, we could do this. I know this album.

1029
01:09:44,177 --> 01:09:44,916
I knew your dad has good taste.

1030
01:09:44,927 --> 01:09:50,755
He does. Even before this, I knew that. But, I mean, Kenny Kirkland's
playing, oh, my gosh Killing on that. Wynton's playing, like...

1031
01:09:50,786 --> 01:09:54,506
And, and I think that because, like, you know, I was, I, I

1032
01:09:54,586 --> 01:09:57,166
said some stuff I didn't think was that controversial, but a couple people picked

1033
01:09:57,226 --> 01:10:00,725
up on the Grammy video I just did, where I said, "Think of..." I was comparing

1034
01:10:00,766 --> 01:10:04,656
1984 to 2026 Grammys, and Wynton won for Think

1035
01:10:04,706 --> 01:10:08,466
of One that year, and I kinda said, like, "This is not his greatest

1036
01:10:08,546 --> 01:10:11,796
album, and it hasn't really stood the test of time." I think Wynton's playing, and

1037
01:10:11,826 --> 01:10:15,796
his bands, and his records during that period, like the next year, um,

1038
01:10:15,846 --> 01:10:18,426
Black Codes from the Underground, and then I guess one year later with Hothouse

1039
01:10:18,486 --> 01:10:20,676
Flowers, incredible stuff. That was my only thing.

1040
01:10:20,746 --> 01:10:23,046
But of those three, that's not your favorite?

1041
01:10:23,086 --> 01:10:24,876
I mean, either Black Codes or Hothouse Flowers.

1042
01:10:24,906 --> 01:10:30,016
Yeah. But I'm thinking string, you know, like, for a strings thing
Yeah I think you can go from this, which is saying a lot, to that.

1043
01:10:30,046 --> 01:10:32,626
Incredible arrangements, Wynton's playing, Kenny Branford, Jeff Watts.

1044
01:10:32,646 --> 01:10:34,946
If you love this album, go check out Hothouse Flowers.

1045
01:10:34,986 --> 01:10:38,255
Yeah. That's a great call, Peter. Yeah, and a lot of
people... If you look at the record, you're like, "Oh, this is

1046
01:10:38,326 --> 01:10:41,026
'80s. This Wynton wasn't really..." No, it's It's cool the real deal.

1047
01:10:41,046 --> 01:10:44,166
It's cool. Awesome. Uh, man, this was cool.

1048
01:10:44,186 --> 01:10:47,186
This was really fun. Do you, do, do you read, or do you just listen?

1049
01:10:47,246 --> 01:10:51,186
Uh, I try not to. Okay, well, if you did, you
wanna check out something called You'll Read It.

1050
01:10:51,206 --> 01:10:52,786
Oh, our newsletter. That's our newsletter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1051
01:10:52,806 --> 01:10:55,546
Which, don't worry, it's not written by us. It's written by professionals.

1052
01:10:55,566 --> 01:10:58,336
Yeah. By producer Liz. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, go check that out.

1053
01:10:58,366 --> 01:11:01,766
You can go to you'llhearit.com to sign up for that, and then we're gonna spam you!

1054
01:11:01,806 --> 01:11:06,496
No, we're not. Peter! I'm sorry. We're gonna send you helpful things. There you go.

1055
01:11:06,786 --> 01:11:07,276
Till next time.

1056
01:11:07,466 --> 01:11:11,046
You'll hear it. You'll read it.