WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.740 --> 00:00:04.540 A key component of the modern world economy, the chemical 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:07.990 industry delivers products and innovations to enhance everyday life. 00:00:08.605 --> 00:00:12.594 It is also an industry in transformation where chemical executives and 00:00:12.594 --> 00:00:16.215 workers are delivering growth and industry changing advancements while 00:00:16.215 --> 00:00:19.974 responding to pressures from investors, regulators, and public opinion. 00:00:20.515 --> 00:00:23.445 Discover how leading companies are approaching these challenges 00:00:23.455 --> 00:00:25.064 here on the chemical show. 00:00:25.524 --> 00:00:28.875 Join Victoria Meyer, president of Progressio Global and 00:00:28.885 --> 00:00:30.305 host of the chemical show. 00:00:30.575 --> 00:00:34.775 As she speaks with executives across the industry and learns how they are leading 00:00:34.775 --> 00:00:40.374 their companies to grow, transform, and push industry boundaries on all frontiers. 00:00:40.695 --> 00:00:42.944 Here's your host, Victoria Meyer. 00:00:45.939 --> 00:00:47.459 Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer. 00:00:47.509 --> 00:00:51.089 Welcome back to The Chemical Show where chemicals means business. 00:00:51.569 --> 00:00:55.329 Today, I have the opportunity to speak with Eric Appelman, 00:00:55.659 --> 00:00:59.809 who is the chief revenue officer at Aduro Clean Technologies. 00:01:00.308 --> 00:01:05.428 Eric has a long history in the chemical industry, both in traditional companies 00:01:05.449 --> 00:01:08.189 and now in green and renewable chemistry. 00:01:08.189 --> 00:01:12.549 So we're going to be talking about that, about Aduro and more. 00:01:13.219 --> 00:01:14.859 Well, Eric, welcome to the chemical show. 00:01:17.242 --> 00:01:18.082 Eric: Thanks for having me. 00:01:18.869 --> 00:01:19.759 Victoria: Glad to have you here. 00:01:19.919 --> 00:01:23.449 So let's just get started with what's your origin story. 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:26.709 How did you get interested in chemicals and how did you 00:01:26.809 --> 00:01:28.819 ultimately end up at Aduro? 00:01:29.912 --> 00:01:32.741 Eric: Yeah, well maybe I should go then really 40 years back. 00:01:32.782 --> 00:01:36.011 I'm 16 now when I was as a kid and doing my chemistry jobs 00:01:36.012 --> 00:01:37.822 in the little house behind. 00:01:39.151 --> 00:01:42.322 Always fascinated how you could turn one thing in the other 00:01:42.331 --> 00:01:43.461 and that's how it started. 00:01:44.167 --> 00:01:47.237 And in the end of the day, chemistry is, is, is a language. 00:01:47.267 --> 00:01:50.257 It is one language to describe the world around you. 00:01:50.257 --> 00:01:51.477 You can do it in German. 00:01:51.487 --> 00:01:53.447 You can do it with mathematics as well. 00:01:54.147 --> 00:01:56.787 And I just decided that I like the chemical language. 00:01:56.797 --> 00:01:57.327 That's what happened. 00:01:58.477 --> 00:02:00.847 So worked out in secondary school. 00:02:00.847 --> 00:02:04.597 It's worked out when I was chemical engineering, uh, students in 00:02:04.637 --> 00:02:08.407 20 in the Netherlands and, and it has been good ever since. 00:02:09.349 --> 00:02:09.669 Victoria: Yeah. 00:02:09.729 --> 00:02:10.308 That's awesome. 00:02:10.549 --> 00:02:14.138 So, so tell us a little bit about Aduro. 00:02:15.207 --> 00:02:15.547 Eric: Yeah. 00:02:16.417 --> 00:02:20.317 Uh, Adura, which is a company that I joined about a year ago is a 00:02:20.317 --> 00:02:24.097 project that has been around under other names for about 11 years. 00:02:25.247 --> 00:02:29.807 And originally it was not at all about green chemistry. 00:02:29.807 --> 00:02:35.256 It was about chopping up huge molecules of bitumen into small pieces 00:02:35.256 --> 00:02:39.486 so that you can bump it away from arctic positions to a refinery where 00:02:39.537 --> 00:02:40.897 people could make something with it. 00:02:41.897 --> 00:02:46.417 But it is a generic technology so you can use it to chop anything 00:02:46.417 --> 00:02:48.327 down that is too big to use. 00:02:48.397 --> 00:02:52.457 So when about four years ago the world was really hot you On 00:02:52.457 --> 00:02:57.097 plastic recycling, the scientists decided to try with great results. 00:02:57.097 --> 00:03:03.497 Um, around that time also, we became a stakeholder entity on the, uh, 00:03:04.017 --> 00:03:05.417 Toronto Stock Exchange, if I'm right. 00:03:05.927 --> 00:03:07.657 And the name Aduro came to living. 00:03:07.962 --> 00:03:12.342 And, and whereas we are still working on this, this bitumen upgrading, 00:03:12.762 --> 00:03:16.552 uh, plastics recycling is at this moment, uh, the big team for us. 00:03:17.289 --> 00:03:17.739 Victoria: Excellent. 00:03:17.899 --> 00:03:21.179 And you guys are, um, you, you have a presence in North 00:03:21.179 --> 00:03:22.929 America as well as in Europe. 00:03:22.989 --> 00:03:23.529 Is that right? 00:03:23.529 --> 00:03:23.579 Absolutely. 00:03:24.812 --> 00:03:28.232 Eric: And all the presence in Europe is what you see in the screen together with 00:03:28.242 --> 00:03:30.642 my colleague who does PR from Germany. 00:03:31.342 --> 00:03:34.292 And, uh, we are essentially a Canadian outfit. 00:03:34.632 --> 00:03:38.972 We are based in London, but in London, Ontario with about 25 people, uh, 00:03:38.982 --> 00:03:40.882 laboratory people, that sort of thing. 00:03:41.684 --> 00:03:42.054 Victoria: Okay. 00:03:42.514 --> 00:03:43.184 That's helpful. 00:03:43.194 --> 00:03:47.824 Cause I knew that I didn't realize that it was just you and Stephanie as the European 00:03:48.052 --> 00:03:48.342 Eric: Yeah. 00:03:49.522 --> 00:03:49.822 Yes. 00:03:50.154 --> 00:03:50.524 Victoria: awesome. 00:03:50.534 --> 00:03:51.234 That's exciting. 00:03:51.414 --> 00:03:55.594 So, you know, Eric, you've seen a lot throughout your career, um, 00:03:55.594 --> 00:03:59.444 and a lot of the evolutions of companies and industry, et cetera. 00:03:59.484 --> 00:04:04.794 And today we're, we're in an era of sustainability, um, driven 00:04:04.794 --> 00:04:05.884 by a lot of things, right? 00:04:05.934 --> 00:04:09.084 Recognition that we need to have a cleaner, more sustainable 00:04:09.084 --> 00:04:14.044 environment, recognition that we want to reduce carbon in the environment. 00:04:14.344 --> 00:04:19.564 And so there's a big focus and yet we are also seeing companies dialing 00:04:19.574 --> 00:04:24.554 back on commitments to sustainability, circularity and recycling. 00:04:25.304 --> 00:04:26.424 Why do you think that's happening? 00:04:27.372 --> 00:04:27.502 Eric: Yeah. 00:04:27.502 --> 00:04:29.122 That is a very good question indeed. 00:04:29.262 --> 00:04:32.672 And I actually took some time to review what I have been doing 00:04:32.672 --> 00:04:34.102 over the last four decades. 00:04:34.812 --> 00:04:39.932 And, um, I came to the conclusion that, um, Almost every job, I was in touch 00:04:39.932 --> 00:04:43.292 with sustainability and why is that? 00:04:43.332 --> 00:04:47.932 Well, sustainability often makes a lot of sense also commercially. 00:04:48.632 --> 00:04:51.922 And so if we're trying to reduce energy consumption, that's good for the planet. 00:04:51.932 --> 00:04:55.222 There's less emissions, but also your cost of your processes go down. 00:04:55.222 --> 00:04:56.752 And that's just a very good idea. 00:04:57.172 --> 00:05:03.192 If you take away some last contamination in a product that is of course good for 00:05:03.192 --> 00:05:07.617 the planet, but it is also good for The product as you offer it to your customers. 00:05:08.467 --> 00:05:12.587 And I think that is also leading to why you may be seeing now a little 00:05:12.607 --> 00:05:19.737 bit of a dialing back in the end of the day, sustainability cannot be 00:05:19.737 --> 00:05:21.667 paid for by good intentions only. 00:05:21.677 --> 00:05:22.867 It has to make sense. 00:05:24.067 --> 00:05:28.447 I actually sometimes say If a solution is actually not financially viable 00:05:28.447 --> 00:05:33.747 or financially less attractive, it probably actually means that it is 00:05:33.747 --> 00:05:37.857 less sustainable because I had to sacrifice more scarce resources. 00:05:39.047 --> 00:05:43.812 And I think what we are seeing now is a typical development that you see 00:05:43.812 --> 00:05:45.252 always when something is really hot. 00:05:45.302 --> 00:05:49.412 A lot of people go on the track, try to do all sorts of clever ideas, 00:05:49.902 --> 00:05:51.412 and not all ideas will make it. 00:05:52.182 --> 00:05:57.012 I have a little anecdote, uh, around, I think it's in 1904, there was 00:05:57.012 --> 00:06:01.552 something like 396 car companies listed on the New York Stock Exchange. 00:06:02.082 --> 00:06:03.482 And how many are there today? 00:06:04.022 --> 00:06:08.692 And so you do see that many of people have ideas, consolidation, 00:06:08.692 --> 00:06:10.052 some will fall by the wayside. 00:06:10.419 --> 00:06:10.799 Victoria: Yeah. 00:06:11.042 --> 00:06:13.602 Eric: And some technologies are obvious winners. 00:06:13.912 --> 00:06:18.802 If I'm from the Netherlands, if I look to our part of the North Sea, perfect 00:06:18.802 --> 00:06:22.402 area, there's always wind, it's not very deep, we have tons of customers 00:06:22.402 --> 00:06:24.792 nearby, wind energy is a no brainer. 00:06:26.062 --> 00:06:29.072 But solar energy in our country, well, although it is doing better 00:06:29.072 --> 00:06:33.457 than you think, and well, we are as north as Labrador here, And so in 00:06:33.457 --> 00:06:36.437 the winter, our days are very short and it becomes less attractive. 00:06:36.877 --> 00:06:38.777 And I think that is what we are seeing. 00:06:39.637 --> 00:06:42.767 It is a natural selection process that we are witnessing. 00:06:43.317 --> 00:06:46.167 There are periods that everybody is running behind something. 00:06:46.287 --> 00:06:47.567 A lot of things are started. 00:06:48.317 --> 00:06:51.547 And then, yeah, inevitably, some things will turn out better than others. 00:06:51.997 --> 00:06:53.057 So I'm not worried. 00:06:53.697 --> 00:06:57.722 In the Netherlands, we are now moaning that certain Recycling companies don't 00:06:57.732 --> 00:07:01.052 make it, but I think it is part of life. 00:07:01.232 --> 00:07:04.102 There's probably all of a sudden 50 recycling companies and two 00:07:04.102 --> 00:07:05.992 or three are not making it. 00:07:06.022 --> 00:07:07.372 And yeah, the best will survive. 00:07:07.532 --> 00:07:08.562 I think that's what you see. 00:07:09.172 --> 00:07:12.042 Um, you also discover that's the other thing. 00:07:13.542 --> 00:07:14.502 It is not easy. 00:07:14.889 --> 00:07:15.369 Victoria: No. 00:07:15.932 --> 00:07:19.642 Eric: and we shall never underestimate how incredibly 00:07:19.642 --> 00:07:22.827 efficient our existing industries are. 00:07:23.587 --> 00:07:26.317 And yeah, of course, they have 100 years to become really good. 00:07:26.977 --> 00:07:31.177 And yes, we shall give good technologies the time to get there. 00:07:31.737 --> 00:07:33.397 But they also put the burden on. 00:07:34.627 --> 00:07:36.067 So you just have to deliver. 00:07:36.647 --> 00:07:37.837 And I think that is normal. 00:07:38.137 --> 00:07:39.357 And it will only make the world better. 00:07:39.549 --> 00:07:39.869 Victoria: Yeah. 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:40.679 I think that's great. 00:07:40.679 --> 00:07:42.629 I think so many, good nuggets in there. 00:07:42.629 --> 00:07:47.449 I think, um, your analogy comparing this to automobile companies back 00:07:47.469 --> 00:07:50.059 in the early nineteen hundreds is great because you're right. 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:55.119 Everybody had an idea, but the reality is only a handful. 00:07:55.464 --> 00:08:01.044 We're truly profitable and, um, replicable to the extent that 00:08:01.044 --> 00:08:02.924 it needed to be and sustainable. 00:08:02.954 --> 00:08:05.844 If we use sustainable by another word, just meaning being able 00:08:05.844 --> 00:08:07.084 to provide that longevity. 00:08:07.354 --> 00:08:10.723 The other piece, and I talk about this with folks is I do think 00:08:10.723 --> 00:08:13.904 the chemical industry in many ways is inherently circular. 00:08:14.084 --> 00:08:15.184 We're circular. 00:08:15.499 --> 00:08:19.869 Because it's profitable because we, you know, somebody saw a waste stream going 00:08:19.869 --> 00:08:24.799 to a flare and said, surely there's a better way of using those molecules. 00:08:24.799 --> 00:08:26.838 And, oh, sure enough, it gets diverted. 00:08:26.838 --> 00:08:30.109 It gets turned into something else that creates a revenue stream. 00:08:30.109 --> 00:08:32.379 So I think, um, all of the. 00:08:32.829 --> 00:08:37.839 New developments that we're seeing today, um, from Aduro and from other companies, 00:08:37.869 --> 00:08:44.264 as we develop, sustainable technologies, um, Has to be profitable, has to, make 00:08:44.264 --> 00:08:51.143 sense on a number of levels and, uh, and ultimately, you know, things will 00:08:51.143 --> 00:08:52.693 shake out and there will be winners. 00:08:54.117 --> 00:08:57.167 Eric: And of course you have to be honest in what things cost. 00:08:57.407 --> 00:09:01.756 Because gone are the days that you can belch out any sort of 00:09:01.757 --> 00:09:03.696 dirty gas and not pay for it. 00:09:04.077 --> 00:09:05.207 And thank God it hasn't. 00:09:05.707 --> 00:09:12.496 And by putting a price on it, it has been encouraged to develop new technologies. 00:09:13.242 --> 00:09:16.112 And yes, we will probably, well, we have that already in Europe, 00:09:16.112 --> 00:09:19.382 we in America, you're paying for your carbon dioxide emissions. 00:09:19.802 --> 00:09:20.642 And that's a good thing. 00:09:20.642 --> 00:09:24.422 And then you can, then you are realizing that I am consuming something. 00:09:25.032 --> 00:09:28.591 Just like when I'm consuming a raw material, when I'm emitting something, 00:09:28.591 --> 00:09:30.311 when I'm consuming clean air. 00:09:31.061 --> 00:09:35.692 As long as the pricing is fair, you will get the right incentives. 00:09:36.507 --> 00:09:37.557 Towards a more sustainable 00:09:37.839 --> 00:09:38.099 Victoria: Right. 00:09:38.259 --> 00:09:42.209 Well, and I think the whole aspect of pricing is so interesting because it also 00:09:42.249 --> 00:09:47.499 in some ways ties to, what technologies and approaches are going to be successful. 00:09:47.649 --> 00:09:51.038 It also ties to kind of consumer and individual behavior. 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.158 Number one, consumer's willingness to pay more. 00:09:55.509 --> 00:09:57.259 sustainable product they say they want. 00:09:57.599 --> 00:10:01.889 Um, secondly, you talked about the, uh, plastic recycling and 00:10:01.889 --> 00:10:06.329 just, that is a critical component of your technology, and others. 00:10:07.059 --> 00:10:11.479 in consumer and individual behaviors play such a big role, right? 00:10:11.489 --> 00:10:17.109 So I think this area of recycling has, it's got a lot of misconceptions, right? 00:10:17.149 --> 00:10:22.679 So we assume, I assume you assume others, maybe assume that whatever we place in 00:10:22.719 --> 00:10:25.178 a recycle bin is recycled and reused. 00:10:25.599 --> 00:10:30.739 Um, that because it's a plastic or because it's a can, or because it's a bottle I 00:10:30.739 --> 00:10:32.449 can put, I can, it's going to get used. 00:10:32.509 --> 00:10:33.909 It's got a useful life. 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:34.879 And yet. 00:10:35.579 --> 00:10:36.699 That's not always the case. 00:10:36.709 --> 00:10:38.369 Can, can you talk about that? 00:10:39.202 --> 00:10:42.592 Eric: Well, I'll start with a bit on the consumer behavior and 00:10:42.592 --> 00:10:43.822 we talked a little bit up front. 00:10:44.532 --> 00:10:48.101 I grew up in the Netherlands, as I told, and we have a small country and we do 00:10:48.101 --> 00:10:49.671 not want to have a lot of landfills. 00:10:50.337 --> 00:10:54.777 And I know nothing better, from child onwards, that the local 00:10:54.777 --> 00:10:57.897 football club would come every month and collect my waste paper. 00:10:58.787 --> 00:11:01.747 And they would bring it somewhere and someone would give them some money. 00:11:01.747 --> 00:11:03.507 So everybody automatically 00:11:05.892 --> 00:11:09.022 And now we are doing the same with green waste. 00:11:09.022 --> 00:11:10.492 It's getting a bit busy in my yard. 00:11:11.062 --> 00:11:15.472 But you do have a container for plastic waste, for green waste, for paper. 00:11:16.071 --> 00:11:18.092 And that is how it works. 00:11:18.422 --> 00:11:22.482 We always bring our bottles, actually without compensation, our glass 00:11:22.482 --> 00:11:24.446 bottles, to the glass container. 00:11:25.427 --> 00:11:26.247 Because they're everywhere. 00:11:26.867 --> 00:11:31.167 And we have already for many years a deposit system of many bottles. 00:11:31.377 --> 00:11:34.527 So, it is ingrained in that culture. 00:11:34.527 --> 00:11:36.017 Yet, sometimes it's difficult. 00:11:36.517 --> 00:11:41.817 If you are living in a high rise building in Rotterdam, it's more difficult. 00:11:41.907 --> 00:11:44.847 And that is also where you sometimes have to show an understanding. 00:11:45.067 --> 00:11:48.547 And in those areas, we see something that I also see coming 00:11:48.547 --> 00:11:49.807 along in the United States. 00:11:50.962 --> 00:11:52.532 That government say, well, you know what? 00:11:52.692 --> 00:11:53.272 Don't bother. 00:11:53.282 --> 00:11:56.622 You cannot have five containers on the 12th floor of, your high rise. 00:11:57.282 --> 00:12:00.942 Just make sure you toss it in and we will develop an industrial separation. 00:12:01.822 --> 00:12:02.732 And that works as well. 00:12:03.002 --> 00:12:05.572 And I've seen that in Texas, but I also see that here. 00:12:06.112 --> 00:12:10.782 And it also teaches us that solutions can be different in different parts of 00:12:10.792 --> 00:12:17.042 the world, depending on social history, but also route, geography, circumstances. 00:12:17.802 --> 00:12:21.237 And in the end of the day, let's face it, It makes no difference for 00:12:21.237 --> 00:12:26.667 me to do, to throw my lemon peel in the green container or in one general 00:12:26.667 --> 00:12:27.887 container and next to each other. 00:12:28.027 --> 00:12:28.787 It's just a habit. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:32.269 Victoria: it is a, and it's interesting, it is a habit and I think these are habits 00:12:32.269 --> 00:12:33.619 that have to be developed early. 00:12:33.829 --> 00:12:36.749 , we did our pre call, we talked about this and I also grew 00:12:36.749 --> 00:12:38.338 up recycling the newspaper. 00:12:38.339 --> 00:12:39.219 And in our case, it was 00:12:39.402 --> 00:12:39.572 Eric: Yeah. 00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:41.059 Victoria: Scouts that would collect it. 00:12:41.059 --> 00:12:42.099 Are we, um, 00:12:42.319 --> 00:12:46.649 And today we have curbside recycling and we use it, but so 1 00:12:46.649 --> 00:12:49.659 of the big challenges, of course, certainly in a country like the U. 00:12:49.659 --> 00:12:49.949 S. 00:12:49.949 --> 00:12:52.549 and in other places is is we're so spread out. 00:12:52.649 --> 00:12:52.959 Right? 00:12:52.959 --> 00:12:57.419 That's at least an excuse that affects the economics of recycling it, 00:12:57.439 --> 00:13:00.739 whether it be curbside recycling or in your buildings and what have you. 00:13:00.739 --> 00:13:03.119 But there's so many, there's so much diversity of it. 00:13:03.119 --> 00:13:05.319 It's not offered in many places. 00:13:05.339 --> 00:13:06.859 Um, and it's a challenge. 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:12.419 It's a challenge because we need those recycled feedstocks. 00:13:12.849 --> 00:13:16.539 What one we need to recycle just to, it's the right thing to do right. 00:13:16.579 --> 00:13:20.309 In, in most cases, secondly, we need those recycled feedstocks and you 00:13:20.319 --> 00:13:22.869 guys need those recycled feedstocks 00:13:23.107 --> 00:13:23.357 Eric: Yeah. 00:13:23.989 --> 00:13:26.329 Victoria: to, to make your technology successful. 00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:30.389 So let's talk about what Aduro is doing in terms of. 00:13:30.689 --> 00:13:35.979 Addressing these challenges, um, what, what aura's approach is 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.009 to sustainability and technology and what your solutions are. 00:13:40.167 --> 00:13:40.457 Eric: Yeah. 00:13:40.827 --> 00:13:45.797 Now, if we stick with your, uh, your, uh, your plastic bin, and in Canada, it is 00:13:45.797 --> 00:13:47.767 a blue bin and here it's a yellow bag. 00:13:48.407 --> 00:13:52.587 And we bring all those plastics nicely together, but you can also sort them 00:13:52.597 --> 00:13:54.467 out at the Central Industrial Facility. 00:13:54.467 --> 00:13:56.527 And there you have this whole heap of plastics. 00:13:56.987 --> 00:13:58.307 What are we going to do with it? 00:13:59.427 --> 00:14:05.187 The first thing you can do is you can pick out easy bits and an easy bit is an 00:14:05.197 --> 00:14:12.147 article like a PET bottle that is discreet and that is made out of just one material. 00:14:13.327 --> 00:14:17.877 Because if I have one material, I can easily convert it. 00:14:18.067 --> 00:14:21.597 I can in theory just melt it and then blow a new bottle from it. 00:14:22.907 --> 00:14:25.887 That's what we call mechanical recycling and that is a very attractive 00:14:25.887 --> 00:14:29.837 technology because it requires little energy and little effort. 00:14:30.482 --> 00:14:33.842 And in an ideal world, that is what we would like to do with everything. 00:14:34.742 --> 00:14:38.292 And with some materials like paper or with cans, you can do that. 00:14:39.452 --> 00:14:41.942 But plastic is unfortunately a little bit more complicated. 00:14:42.712 --> 00:14:46.292 Because of all the plastic articles, and especially if you start to talk about 00:14:46.402 --> 00:14:50.722 films that we use to package our foods and all that sort of thing, we are, uh, 00:14:51.122 --> 00:14:53.782 we are looking at complicated materials. 00:14:54.072 --> 00:14:57.482 To begin with, there is not just one material, but it is a piece 10. 00:14:58.552 --> 00:15:03.291 And very often, we put several of those materials together. 00:15:04.032 --> 00:15:08.712 In an article, the best example for me is always that wrap that you use 00:15:08.712 --> 00:15:10.662 around cheese or fish packaging. 00:15:11.122 --> 00:15:13.302 There is actually 11 different layers. 00:15:13.374 --> 00:15:13.614 Victoria: No 00:15:13.892 --> 00:15:15.422 Eric: And each layer does something. 00:15:15.552 --> 00:15:17.642 One layer keeps out the stinky cheese smell. 00:15:17.832 --> 00:15:19.062 One keeps the bugs out. 00:15:19.102 --> 00:15:20.322 One keeps the water in. 00:15:20.332 --> 00:15:21.892 And they all have their functionality. 00:15:22.142 --> 00:15:23.222 And that's a marvelous product. 00:15:23.292 --> 00:15:26.712 Because as a result of that, my cheese is not going to perish in days. 00:15:27.052 --> 00:15:29.142 But you can actually keep it for sometimes years. 00:15:29.632 --> 00:15:32.222 But, recycling wise, it is a nightmare. 00:15:33.192 --> 00:15:41.082 And dealing with that diversity is an enormous problem and cost factor. 00:15:42.202 --> 00:15:46.352 And then, of course, once it has been in the bin, in theory, anything can be on it. 00:15:47.024 --> 00:15:47.504 Victoria: Right. 00:15:47.912 --> 00:15:53.131 Eric: Any germ, pathogen, uh, medical rest, or whatever else. 00:15:54.092 --> 00:15:59.212 And that is when you lose sometimes the applicability of that recycled stuff. 00:15:59.742 --> 00:16:03.572 Because you do not really want to pack your fresh food in something 00:16:03.582 --> 00:16:07.692 that was yesterday in a bin with a very undefined environment. 00:16:08.542 --> 00:16:12.992 So that is why that mechanical recycling, as we call it, which is just picking 00:16:12.992 --> 00:16:14.782 out and remelting, has its limitations. 00:16:15.557 --> 00:16:17.047 And then comes in chemical recycling. 00:16:17.717 --> 00:16:21.077 Then you say, okay, all that plastic that is too dirty or too 00:16:21.117 --> 00:16:22.597 unknown or too unpredictable. 00:16:23.057 --> 00:16:26.807 I'm going to try and turn that back into chemical feedstock. 00:16:27.007 --> 00:16:31.627 That is our business, but then how good can you do it? 00:16:31.807 --> 00:16:35.337 And I'll tell you, there is more than a hundred companies who are in their 00:16:35.337 --> 00:16:40.017 business, but Aduro is the one and only that does something different. 00:16:40.017 --> 00:16:46.867 And I almost dare to say all the hundred pursue one technology, whereas 00:16:46.867 --> 00:16:48.917 we pursue on our own another one. 00:16:49.184 --> 00:16:49.514 Victoria: Hmm. 00:16:50.092 --> 00:16:51.442 Eric: Now, what do the other guys do? 00:16:51.932 --> 00:16:55.192 They say, okay, I'll take all that plastic and I'll just crank up the heat. 00:16:55.882 --> 00:16:58.782 And then the stuff falls to pieces and I get something that 00:16:58.782 --> 00:17:01.362 looks a little bit like gasoline. 00:17:02.262 --> 00:17:02.732 NAFTA. 00:17:03.472 --> 00:17:07.112 And that is a feedstock for the petrochemical industry. 00:17:08.222 --> 00:17:12.432 Unfortunately, in that process, all the impurities that you started out with, 00:17:13.272 --> 00:17:17.472 Are going to travel all the way through and they end up in your gasoline as well. 00:17:18.582 --> 00:17:22.892 And before you can then take it into a major chemical outfit, 00:17:22.952 --> 00:17:24.042 you have to clean it up. 00:17:24.502 --> 00:17:25.872 We call that upgrading. 00:17:26.512 --> 00:17:29.392 And in that upgrading, we remove all that contaminant. 00:17:29.932 --> 00:17:34.592 We also, uh, upgrade the so called saturation. 00:17:34.742 --> 00:17:36.622 That's a chemical term which I will not touch anymore. 00:17:37.742 --> 00:17:38.252 But, uh, 00:17:40.392 --> 00:17:44.502 And now we come back to that chemical, that, that, that financial argument. 00:17:44.952 --> 00:17:47.122 You may argue like, okay, but waste is for free. 00:17:47.122 --> 00:17:50.022 Well, actually waste is not for free because you had to 00:17:50.022 --> 00:17:51.712 collect it at the curbside. 00:17:52.382 --> 00:17:55.152 You probably had to wash it or take some dirt out. 00:17:55.492 --> 00:17:59.322 And subsequently you did some sorting and you took these easy bits out. 00:17:59.792 --> 00:18:02.962 And by the time you are looking at that heap of dirty film, you're looking 00:18:02.962 --> 00:18:04.762 at a hundred, two hundred dollars 00:18:04.844 --> 00:18:05.174 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:05.574 --> 00:18:09.234 And to your point, I think, uh, every part along the value chain 00:18:09.784 --> 00:18:11.644 want, needs to make a profit. 00:18:12.159 --> 00:18:12.619 Right. 00:18:12.629 --> 00:18:13.079 So, 00:18:13.302 --> 00:18:13.662 Eric: exactly. 00:18:13.682 --> 00:18:15.372 Else it won't, else the wheel won't spin, 00:18:15.499 --> 00:18:21.019 Victoria: So, when I talk to people today about in particular PET, um, recycling 00:18:21.029 --> 00:18:25.829 and the cost of getting PET bales, it's, it's actually quite expensive, right? 00:18:25.829 --> 00:18:27.909 And you know, there's markers out there, there's traded 00:18:27.909 --> 00:18:29.369 values or track values on it. 00:18:29.679 --> 00:18:35.229 Um, and it's expensive because of the effort, that it takes to go in there. 00:18:35.229 --> 00:18:35.399 Right. 00:18:35.399 --> 00:18:35.719 So there's a 00:18:35.719 --> 00:18:40.519 cost, but there's also a relatively small amount of useful product. 00:18:41.492 --> 00:18:42.762 Eric: Compare it to crude oil, eh? 00:18:42.802 --> 00:18:45.522 You go to some desert, you hit a hole in the ground. 00:18:45.912 --> 00:18:49.732 Then you fill up your mammoth tank of a hundred thousand tons and you say 00:18:49.732 --> 00:18:51.252 like to a big petrochemical company. 00:18:51.252 --> 00:18:51.282 Yeah. 00:18:51.732 --> 00:18:53.782 Logistically, it's much more easy. 00:18:54.312 --> 00:18:58.892 Now the good thing about what we do at Aduro is that if we take that 00:18:58.892 --> 00:19:04.652 heterogeneous mixture, we will deal with these contaminants in such a 00:19:04.682 --> 00:19:08.412 way that they very elegantly leave the process through the side door. 00:19:09.712 --> 00:19:14.927 And the oil, or the naphtha that we make, It's clean enough to be 00:19:14.927 --> 00:19:19.877 sent into a petrochemical facility without any additional treatment. 00:19:20.487 --> 00:19:22.227 And that is a colossal, that's a game 00:19:22.404 --> 00:19:23.314 Victoria: That is a game changer. 00:19:23.574 --> 00:19:25.294 Is this a catalytic process? 00:19:25.314 --> 00:19:31.224 I mean, can you give, shed any insight into like how this is happening? 00:19:31.224 --> 00:19:32.547 Eric: Yeah, I can try to do that. 00:19:32.587 --> 00:19:35.677 And I apologize to the audience that is not that chemical. 00:19:36.157 --> 00:19:40.007 But what we do is we do the process at a relatively low conditions 00:19:40.437 --> 00:19:42.187 by using a catalyst, as you say. 00:19:42.767 --> 00:19:43.981 So not as hot. 00:19:45.082 --> 00:19:49.572 And, and what we do is by adding a little bit of water and a little 00:19:49.572 --> 00:19:54.772 bit of a simple, organic molecule, think of ethanol or glycerol. 00:19:55.622 --> 00:19:59.682 And we let several reactions happen at the same time. 00:20:00.532 --> 00:20:04.802 And because of the presence of the water and that other molecule, 00:20:05.452 --> 00:20:10.562 we are able to almost in situ refine that complicated dirtiness. 00:20:11.727 --> 00:20:15.117 And produce a very clean hydrocarbon 00:20:16.304 --> 00:20:16.984 Victoria: Interesting. 00:20:17.097 --> 00:20:18.837 Eric: that you can stick into your chemical plant. 00:20:19.407 --> 00:20:24.507 And that does not only mean that we save a lot of post-treatment costs, but it 00:20:24.507 --> 00:20:30.337 also means that we do not do so much work up front because we can take that 00:20:30.337 --> 00:20:33.127 dirty mix rather than a highly pure 00:20:34.134 --> 00:20:36.014 Victoria: And you still have to find a place to send the 00:20:36.014 --> 00:20:37.754 impurities, but you're doing it 00:20:38.294 --> 00:20:39.294 in a different way. 00:20:39.324 --> 00:20:43.716 Eric: You'll concentrate that and as you say, the, the whole value 00:20:43.716 --> 00:20:47.376 circle, as I call it in of value chain, it still has to shape up. 00:20:48.311 --> 00:20:51.631 But I could see that that may go for that. 00:20:51.631 --> 00:20:53.901 You're talking about less than 10 percent of the original. 00:20:54.391 --> 00:20:55.981 Maybe that goes to incineration. 00:20:55.991 --> 00:20:58.661 Maybe it goes to a gasification and back to something. 00:20:59.101 --> 00:21:03.011 And you may even get to minerals recovery, but that is all far away. 00:21:03.011 --> 00:21:05.981 And that is, that's not our home turf. 00:21:06.013 --> 00:21:06.403 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:06.453 --> 00:21:07.093 Interesting. 00:21:07.343 --> 00:21:12.323 So what's been the customer or market response to your 00:21:12.323 --> 00:21:14.203 technology and your offerings? 00:21:15.871 --> 00:21:16.701 Eric: And it's very interesting. 00:21:16.711 --> 00:21:18.761 And the first question is, of course, who are my customers? 00:21:18.893 --> 00:21:20.403 Victoria: yeah, that is a great question, actually. 00:21:20.403 --> 00:21:20.693 Yes. 00:21:20.781 --> 00:21:23.701 Eric: I talked about your, uh, your value circle. 00:21:24.171 --> 00:21:26.661 And there are a number of actors. 00:21:27.031 --> 00:21:29.101 One actor is the petrochemical industry. 00:21:29.691 --> 00:21:32.891 They are, of course, used to big chemicals and they could handle it. 00:21:33.461 --> 00:21:38.281 But they have an interesting question, dooming, looming, and that is the 00:21:38.311 --> 00:21:40.541 obligation to supply circular carbon. 00:21:41.551 --> 00:21:46.851 We are going to a situation where we will have minimal recycle content. 00:21:48.221 --> 00:21:49.961 And then it is better that you have that. 00:21:50.001 --> 00:21:51.401 So they have a big interest. 00:21:51.461 --> 00:21:56.981 And I think I'm fair if I'm saying that any big petrochemical company that I 00:21:56.981 --> 00:22:00.181 have approached with our story loved it. 00:22:01.036 --> 00:22:04.666 And they are all following it and they're asking for clarifications. 00:22:04.666 --> 00:22:05.786 And of course they are picky. 00:22:05.786 --> 00:22:10.066 And of course they are critical, but they really see that what we do, 00:22:10.576 --> 00:22:16.186 which is recycling of that carbon at the lowest possible cost and at 00:22:16.216 --> 00:22:20.656 the lowest possible loss and at the lowest possible aftertreatment and 00:22:20.886 --> 00:22:23.866 complexity holds tremendous promise. 00:22:24.036 --> 00:22:30.241 So I have easily 10 major petrochemicals all over the world who are Literally 00:22:30.271 --> 00:22:32.251 observing very closely what we're doing. 00:22:33.761 --> 00:22:37.081 But it's not only them, because on the other side, is the guys 00:22:37.121 --> 00:22:38.481 that collect all the waste. 00:22:39.021 --> 00:22:40.351 The waste management companies. 00:22:41.001 --> 00:22:44.851 And they have to make a living as well, by creating as much value as 00:22:44.851 --> 00:22:47.291 possible from those waste streams. 00:22:47.991 --> 00:22:54.261 And they also realize that, hey, I do need a solution for the dirty stuff, 00:22:54.971 --> 00:22:58.161 to make the whole recycling affordable. 00:22:58.846 --> 00:23:02.726 It is always easy to take a 20 percent that is easy to recycle, but, hey, 00:23:02.756 --> 00:23:05.896 by the way, what am I now going to do with that 80 percent that is left? 00:23:06.276 --> 00:23:09.236 And that is obviously more horrible than what I started out with. 00:23:09.616 --> 00:23:11.816 So they need a solution for everything. 00:23:12.726 --> 00:23:16.026 And that is why I, it's actually a bit of a tendency of the last 00:23:16.036 --> 00:23:19.336 months that I noticed that the waste management companies realized that 00:23:19.886 --> 00:23:22.776 they need a good suite of technologies. 00:23:23.336 --> 00:23:27.906 To deal with all that plastic and then all that plastic and no sort 00:23:27.906 --> 00:23:32.116 of hazy leftovers that I have to landfill anyway or something like 00:23:32.263 --> 00:23:32.553 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:32.603 --> 00:23:35.003 I like, I like that description of a suite of technologies. 00:23:35.003 --> 00:23:37.423 Cause I do think it's, there's not going to be a single 00:23:37.423 --> 00:23:39.343 winner or loser in this, that 00:23:39.353 --> 00:23:39.823 there has 00:23:39.876 --> 00:23:39.955 Eric: no. 00:23:39.956 --> 00:23:40.606 Absolutely not. 00:23:41.613 --> 00:23:45.053 Victoria: of technology solutions, approaches, 00:23:45.453 --> 00:23:46.973 um, that will help us win the game. 00:23:48.006 --> 00:23:48.856 Eric: yeah, absolutely. 00:23:49.003 --> 00:23:51.463 Victoria: are you guys on your path to commercialization? 00:23:51.503 --> 00:23:51.813 Right. 00:23:52.723 --> 00:23:56.043 I know from talking to other leaders in this space that it is 00:23:56.193 --> 00:23:58.803 not a straightforward path, nor short. 00:24:00.186 --> 00:24:04.146 Eric: No, we started a little bit late because most people on competing 00:24:04.146 --> 00:24:07.405 pathways, they started already at 2005. 00:24:07.586 --> 00:24:11.196 It's a long time ago, but it sounds, and it sounds odd, but in those 00:24:11.196 --> 00:24:14.066 days we were very nervous that we didn't have enough fossil carbon. 00:24:15.226 --> 00:24:19.716 And that was very quickly resolved by by some creative people in the 00:24:19.716 --> 00:24:24.106 United States who discovered fracking or upgraded fracking and then 00:24:24.126 --> 00:24:25.626 suddenly that problem was solved. 00:24:26.436 --> 00:24:31.446 But a lot of people at that moment started to work converting plastic waste to fuels. 00:24:32.386 --> 00:24:35.116 And then they went, of course, all a bit into hibernation, but 00:24:35.116 --> 00:24:36.626 they had all the technology ready. 00:24:36.626 --> 00:24:39.356 And when the plastic case came up, they could just pick it up again. 00:24:40.156 --> 00:24:42.996 We came from that, um, that corner of bitumen. 00:24:43.426 --> 00:24:45.386 And it was our first, uh, trick. 00:24:45.926 --> 00:24:48.876 And it is only like four years ago that he said, okay, let's see what 00:24:48.876 --> 00:24:50.326 we can do with plastic waste as well. 00:24:51.246 --> 00:24:54.776 We are now at a stage where we're building our pilot plant, 00:24:54.846 --> 00:24:56.696 continuous integrated pilot plant. 00:24:57.341 --> 00:24:59.181 And that will be right in the beginning of next year. 00:24:59.771 --> 00:25:02.561 Then we will be able to test all sorts of wastes. 00:25:02.561 --> 00:25:05.111 We will be able to set all sorts of conditions. 00:25:05.621 --> 00:25:10.124 And then it should go quickly towards commercial installations. 00:25:10.378 --> 00:25:13.448 Victoria: Targeting initially North America. 00:25:13.458 --> 00:25:15.248 Obviously you guys are Canadian based. 00:25:15.588 --> 00:25:17.828 Is the target North America 00:25:18.061 --> 00:25:19.081 Eric: is a very good question. 00:25:19.211 --> 00:25:23.061 This is very, uh, here you're almost into politics. 00:25:23.321 --> 00:25:27.001 Which are the places where you will have traction first? 00:25:27.881 --> 00:25:31.381 And you can argue in Europe we have a long tradition of recycling. 00:25:31.861 --> 00:25:35.641 We also have a tradition, which is a little bit less well known, that chemical 00:25:35.651 --> 00:25:37.691 industry takes liquids as a feedstock. 00:25:38.611 --> 00:25:42.501 And so Europe might be a very good place to start out with. 00:25:43.741 --> 00:25:48.001 The beauty that I always have had about North America, and that's why my sons 00:25:48.001 --> 00:25:52.011 and I, we love places like Texas, if something works, you just go for it. 00:25:52.761 --> 00:25:57.211 And you build for it and you access your massive capital markets and your 00:25:57.211 --> 00:26:02.031 scaling ability and not for the first time you might see here that in the 00:26:02.031 --> 00:26:06.021 end of the day, uh, in North America, the first factories might come along 00:26:06.941 --> 00:26:09.551 because it works so kind of hard to say. 00:26:09.551 --> 00:26:14.641 But I have also a company in Southeast Asia who is very interested. 00:26:14.681 --> 00:26:17.481 This is, of course, one of those areas where plastic waste in the 00:26:17.481 --> 00:26:20.591 environment is a colossal problem because in the end of the day. 00:26:21.336 --> 00:26:24.506 In America and in Europe, we at least collect this garbage. 00:26:25.686 --> 00:26:27.686 But in those countries, that is not always logical. 00:26:28.246 --> 00:26:31.416 So tremendous interest from Southeast Asia, uh, tremendous interest 00:26:31.416 --> 00:26:36.376 from Latin America, uh, where it will go first, anybody's guess. 00:26:37.086 --> 00:26:39.336 I would say Europe, very likely. 00:26:40.401 --> 00:26:44.301 But I do also see good possibilities in especially the United States. 00:26:45.678 --> 00:26:47.388 Victoria: Yeah, well, I guess we'll see, right. 00:26:47.388 --> 00:26:48.028 This is all 00:26:48.081 --> 00:26:48.361 Eric: Yeah. 00:26:48.361 --> 00:26:48.681 Yeah. 00:26:48.698 --> 00:26:52.398 Victoria: part of the game and part of the gamble in some ways, right. 00:26:52.408 --> 00:26:57.228 To see where's the solutions, uh, how they really manifest and when, how they 00:26:57.781 --> 00:26:58.971 Eric: And you must be open. 00:26:58.971 --> 00:27:01.641 That is very important. 00:27:02.851 --> 00:27:06.901 What is very important for us also for that reason is that we talk to everyone. 00:27:08.241 --> 00:27:11.181 So rather than withdrawing a laboratory and cooking up a very 00:27:11.181 --> 00:27:15.251 nice solution, we should be in a permanent dialogue with the industry. 00:27:15.271 --> 00:27:17.221 And you will see that there will be changes. 00:27:17.966 --> 00:27:21.446 I think 10 years ago, everybody was thinking like, Oh yeah, we will have 00:27:21.476 --> 00:27:23.306 beautiful, clean plastics to recycle. 00:27:23.996 --> 00:27:25.386 Unfortunately, that's not the case. 00:27:25.886 --> 00:27:29.676 Uh, and if you would have built your proposition on that, you 00:27:29.676 --> 00:27:30.616 would be dead in the water. 00:27:31.576 --> 00:27:36.086 And I think it is very important to be everywhere, listen to the possibility 00:27:36.286 --> 00:27:38.370 and also tune your proposition. 00:27:38.371 --> 00:27:43.171 In America, we need a different way of products and we'll do that. 00:27:43.171 --> 00:27:44.375 Yeah. 00:27:44.433 --> 00:27:47.693 Victoria: I think there's, I mean, certainly governmental regulations, 00:27:47.773 --> 00:27:52.313 has a huge part to play in this, both in, in the investments and 00:27:52.323 --> 00:27:56.273 what's being offered to support sustainable and green technologies. 00:27:56.273 --> 00:27:59.993 That's one side of it, but also even in terms of what products 00:28:00.073 --> 00:28:02.623 are, um, allowed to be used. 00:28:02.623 --> 00:28:03.013 Yeah. 00:28:03.013 --> 00:28:03.023 Yeah. 00:28:03.023 --> 00:28:03.032 Yeah. 00:28:03.173 --> 00:28:03.553 Right. 00:28:03.553 --> 00:28:05.133 With in the countries. 00:28:05.133 --> 00:28:10.383 And I know, you know, uh, France famously banned, uh, plastic wrap 00:28:10.413 --> 00:28:12.773 on cucumbers and other vegetables. 00:28:12.773 --> 00:28:13.063 Right. 00:28:13.063 --> 00:28:15.553 So that you could like, okay, well, that's great. 00:28:15.553 --> 00:28:17.783 So you're not going to get that, but you know, in the U S it's 00:28:17.783 --> 00:28:19.323 still prevalent and elsewhere. 00:28:19.323 --> 00:28:22.963 So I think there's just different local customs and local practices. 00:28:23.643 --> 00:28:23.873 Yeah. 00:28:23.943 --> 00:28:24.443 So, okay. 00:28:24.443 --> 00:28:27.433 So I want to turn to a question that, by the way, I didn't tell you, 00:28:27.433 --> 00:28:28.353 I was going to ask you this, but. 00:28:28.783 --> 00:28:29.823 I know that you can handle it. 00:28:30.123 --> 00:28:32.113 I want to talk about leadership, right? 00:28:32.113 --> 00:28:32.843 So you've 00:28:33.263 --> 00:28:38.323 obviously experienced big companies, private companies, small 00:28:38.323 --> 00:28:40.143 companies, developing companies. 00:28:41.273 --> 00:28:47.613 What are the two or three defining characteristics of leaders that are 00:28:47.743 --> 00:28:53.503 able to really achieve growth and take a new, you know, a new business, 00:28:53.543 --> 00:28:55.303 a new technology and evolve it? 00:28:55.553 --> 00:28:57.013 What do you see as being critical? 00:28:57.963 --> 00:28:59.773 Eric: I can allude to the name of the, 00:29:02.503 --> 00:29:06.733 and I've actually been always in the business of bringing new ideas 00:29:06.733 --> 00:29:11.223 and technologies to the market and I have recognized three factors. 00:29:12.128 --> 00:29:13.328 That have to work. 00:29:14.038 --> 00:29:17.008 And the first one is, is what I call real strengths. 00:29:17.908 --> 00:29:22.788 And that means that you must have something that is really differentiated. 00:29:23.878 --> 00:29:27.368 And that is, and it's not like 5 percent better than other things. 00:29:27.368 --> 00:29:28.048 It must be. 00:29:29.343 --> 00:29:33.893 If you start from scratch, you better start from a really good idea. 00:29:34.463 --> 00:29:37.393 Marginal improvement is the good territory for the big companies. 00:29:37.393 --> 00:29:39.253 They will optimize and they have the time for it. 00:29:39.253 --> 00:29:43.503 If you bring something new, it has, you have to build on a real strength. 00:29:43.503 --> 00:29:45.383 A really good idea, well protected. 00:29:46.280 --> 00:29:46.600 Victoria: Yeah. 00:29:47.683 --> 00:29:51.443 Eric: The other thing that is of course very important, there must be a real need. 00:29:52.653 --> 00:29:56.203 And I have worked quite a bit in my earlier career, for instance, in 00:29:56.233 --> 00:29:58.033 supplying to the cosmetics industry. 00:29:58.843 --> 00:30:01.093 And we were always saying, yeah, yeah, they want to have, of course they 00:30:01.093 --> 00:30:02.693 want to have vegetable ingredients. 00:30:03.333 --> 00:30:06.903 But as soon as she then came down and was costing five pennies more, uh, 00:30:06.933 --> 00:30:10.913 they actually happily took, uh, the fossil ingredients or whatever else. 00:30:10.913 --> 00:30:13.562 It is actually an industry that is not green at all. 00:30:13.943 --> 00:30:15.803 And so there was no real need. 00:30:16.033 --> 00:30:20.527 And you must be brutal that this was actually not a need. 00:30:21.548 --> 00:30:26.198 And it was silly to pursue that idea because that was something 00:30:26.198 --> 00:30:27.668 that you concocted up yourself. 00:30:28.808 --> 00:30:32.148 And the third thing that is incredibly important is, um, 00:30:32.488 --> 00:30:34.198 is an alignment of the stars. 00:30:35.208 --> 00:30:39.788 And what I mean by that is there are millions of reasons why your customers, 00:30:40.308 --> 00:30:44.188 even if you had the best idea, would say, yes, thank you, but no, thank you. 00:30:45.108 --> 00:30:50.313 And you do have to find those Interactions where you have them. 00:30:50.923 --> 00:30:54.783 That's why I want to talk to many customers because customers, A, 00:30:54.783 --> 00:30:58.023 B, and C might say, Oh, this is a brilliant idea, but you know what? 00:30:58.023 --> 00:31:02.193 I just changed my CEO last time that I have an issue with my factory here. 00:31:02.193 --> 00:31:05.983 And there is millions of reasons why people will not take something. 00:31:06.673 --> 00:31:09.683 You have to very aggressively hunt for what it is. 00:31:10.463 --> 00:31:12.303 What does it mean in terms of leadership? 00:31:13.083 --> 00:31:14.163 Be brutally honest. 00:31:14.893 --> 00:31:19.013 About how good your idea is and what your customer really wants. 00:31:20.133 --> 00:31:24.593 And the second one is be open and be searching and be on the 00:31:24.593 --> 00:31:28.513 hunt and find those pockets where your idea is going to work. 00:31:29.123 --> 00:31:32.543 So be out looking a lot of startups. 00:31:32.543 --> 00:31:37.337 And in my previous job, I was director of an innovation campus where we had 00:31:37.648 --> 00:31:42.928 More than a hundred companies trying to do things and a lot of startups as well. 00:31:43.528 --> 00:31:46.698 The ones that are really like this are the ones that you saw a real 00:31:46.698 --> 00:31:52.168 need, real strength, but also a strong outlooking attitudes and too many 00:31:52.178 --> 00:31:55.488 stay in the laboratory and try to make it even better without actually 00:31:55.488 --> 00:31:56.358 knowing what a customer wants. 00:31:56.430 --> 00:31:56.810 Victoria: Yeah. 00:31:56.970 --> 00:31:57.250 I have 00:31:57.280 --> 00:31:58.770 progress over perfection. 00:31:59.778 --> 00:32:04.238 Eric: yeah, leadership must be outside in looking and it must be brutally honest. 00:32:05.980 --> 00:32:06.340 Victoria: Wow. 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:06.830 That's good. 00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:07.420 I like that. 00:32:07.780 --> 00:32:08.160 All right. 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:12.330 So, Eric, what should we be looking forward to from you and 00:32:12.330 --> 00:32:15.880 from Aduro Clean Technologies over the next 12 to 18 months? 00:32:16.935 --> 00:32:19.565 Eric: Well, to begin with, we are, of course, now on that 00:32:19.595 --> 00:32:21.165 very exciting scaling trend. 00:32:22.185 --> 00:32:25.385 I hope that we will be able to attract a lot of people. 00:32:25.425 --> 00:32:30.895 And what I would like to create is a theater where interested companies, 00:32:30.925 --> 00:32:35.895 being in petrochemical or being at a waste management company or others, 00:32:35.905 --> 00:32:41.025 brand owners, all welcome, where they can witness what we are doing and where 00:32:41.025 --> 00:32:43.055 they will be impressed by what we do. 00:32:43.590 --> 00:32:48.040 I have no hesitation that our technology from where we are now will be readily 00:32:48.040 --> 00:32:50.100 scalable and that we will reach that. 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:54.960 The other theater where we are acting and that is the sort of beautiful 00:32:56.255 --> 00:32:59.475 ambidextrous life of a good startup. 00:32:59.705 --> 00:33:02.745 This is that we are working with investors. 00:33:03.285 --> 00:33:08.015 We are financed by retail investors, and it is a fantastic thing to 00:33:08.015 --> 00:33:12.555 realize that we are going to be listing on the Nasdaq very soon. 00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:13.980 Victoria: That's exciting. 00:33:14.395 --> 00:33:18.254 Eric: attract more, uh, more money, more funds for this one. 00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:21.940 Victoria: Are you, are you currently listed today? 00:33:23.235 --> 00:33:24.655 Eric: We are listed in Toronto 00:33:25.085 --> 00:33:25.915 and in Frankfurt. 00:33:26.525 --> 00:33:32.144 Uh, on, on, uh, starters, uh, exchange, but that's relatively low liquidity, 00:33:32.525 --> 00:33:36.625 obviously by going to the United States, uh, you come in, in heaven of capital. 00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:37.520 Victoria: Yeah. 00:33:37.940 --> 00:33:38.210 Yeah. 00:33:38.210 --> 00:33:39.150 I think that's very cool. 00:33:39.150 --> 00:33:44.660 And I think, uh, I, until recently I hadn't realized that, startup companies 00:33:44.670 --> 00:33:49.200 such as yours were actually listing on the NASDAQ to, as a means of raising capital. 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.530 So I think that's really exciting. 00:33:51.285 --> 00:33:51.515 Eric: Yeah. 00:33:51.635 --> 00:33:51.775 Yeah. 00:33:51.775 --> 00:33:55.895 There's actually, originally it starts often by making your retail 00:33:55.895 --> 00:33:58.235 investors able to, to trade. 00:33:59.235 --> 00:33:59.335 Yeah. 00:33:59.335 --> 00:34:02.271 Because there's no liquidity, of course, until you're enlisted, but 00:34:02.271 --> 00:34:04.465 it is done in a secondary step. 00:34:04.465 --> 00:34:06.565 But it becomes a way To attract money. 00:34:06.685 --> 00:34:08.815 And we have done a couple of raises in a row. 00:34:08.825 --> 00:34:10.885 We've, by the way, never traded down. 00:34:10.955 --> 00:34:13.795 Every new raise was for a higher price than before. 00:34:14.525 --> 00:34:16.805 And, uh, yeah, that, that is how we work. 00:34:16.815 --> 00:34:18.935 And this would be a very exciting next step. 00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:20.740 Victoria: Can't wait to see it. 00:34:20.740 --> 00:34:20.810 Yeah. 00:34:21.565 --> 00:34:22.985 Well, Eric, thank you. 00:34:23.065 --> 00:34:25.715 Thank you for, taking the time to speak with me today. 00:34:25.755 --> 00:34:31.495 I love what you are doing with our Aduro Clean Technologies and, uh, 00:34:31.505 --> 00:34:32.275 I think it's going to be great. 00:34:33.185 --> 00:34:33.965 Eric: Thank you so much. 00:34:33.965 --> 00:34:34.893 I enjoyed this very much. 00:34:34.893 --> 00:34:35.323 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:34:35.345 --> 00:34:37.095 And thank you everyone for joining us today. 00:34:37.095 --> 00:34:39.585 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:34:39.585 --> 00:34:40.765 talk with you again soon.