In this episode of Losing the Way, Preston Ulmer is joined by spiritual formation director Jake Smith for a conversation about the hidden metrics that have shaped modern Christianity. Together they explore how churches and leaders have slowly become formed by attendance, influence, growth, and success, and ask what happens when the numbers we celebrate begin discipling us more than Jesus himself.
Drawing from years of ministry experience, Jake reflects on life both inside and outside traditional church leadership, while Preston wrestles with the pressures pastors and ministry leaders face in a culture obsessed with performance and measurable impact. This honest and thoughtful conversation invites listeners to reconsider what faithfulness really looks like and challenges us to return to the simple question: what if we started with Jesus and stayed there?
Whether you’re leading in ministry, recovering from church hurt, or simply trying to rediscover the heart of your faith, this episode offers a hopeful and deeply formative conversation about losing the way in order to find it again.
What is Losing The Way?
Losing the Way is an investigative-style podcast that asks how modern Christianity, especially evangelicalism, may have drifted from the original “Way” of Jesus. Through thoughtful conversations with scholars, pastors, and practitioners, each episode explores where that drift happened, why it matters, and what it might look like to recover a faith shaped more by Jesus’ life than by culture, power, or certainty. It’s not about tearing down the church, but about rediscovering the path that first made it good news.