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Welcome back to the Count Me
In podcast. I'm your host.

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Adam Larson in today's guest is
really interesting. Casey. Woo.

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Casey's been a strategic financial
leader in Silicon valley for the past two

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decades, investing in an operating high
growth tech and tech enabled companies.

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He is the CFO of landing,

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the former head of strategic finance at
WeWork and the co-founder of operators

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Guild, a knowledge sharing community
for CFOs and other business operators.

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And that's just what he is
been up to lately today.

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Casey and I put the microscope on the
CFO and how the role has evolved from

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being the sheriff of cost and budgets
to now being a company-wide business

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partner, focused squarely on the
most important metric of all growth.

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I hope you enjoy the conversation.

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Casey, thanks so much for joining
us today on the Count Me In podcast.

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we're going to jump right into some,

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questions we're gonna be focusing
in on the CFO. And so to start off,

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what are some common misconceptions or
what is the hook's historical perspective

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on the role of the CFO?

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Yeah, I think I'm probably not
going to be novel here in my

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answer.

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There is a pretty classic
stereotype of a CFO,

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to borrow a phrase from a
friend, you know, there's CFO.

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No is basically one of
them is Dr. No, the,

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you know, DBER, you know, the nickel
and dimer, the no personality,

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the, yeah,

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the one that says no to everything in
terms of costs and other words like

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the budget, right? The
people think of, you know,

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my travel and expense
reimbursements like that.

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That's when you get to real stereotypes
of just don't you do my team reports,

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you know? And so, of course at the
corporate level, you know, CFOs are,

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I don't know, misconception, hopefully
this is a good conception, but they're

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the honest broker, right?

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They're the one who engages
with the board as the air quote,

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pseudo check on leadership, et cetera.

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So there's not some misconceptions,
some that's true. Absolutely.

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You have that. A lot of
it now is not true. Yes.

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We manage budgets and money and have that

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purview. But I think there's also,

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what's now called CFO
grow rather than CFO know.

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And I do think there's
a healthy way to manage

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in a very responsible way money, but
also, and I think the word is invest,

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right? So they call it strategic
CFO. Money is meant to be invested,

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I guess, saved as well. Right? So when
you're, especially in high growth,

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VPs are not giving you money to sit on it.

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It's put it to good use and the
word is good. Use, not reckless use.

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and of course you're going
to balance a lot of things.

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So one is just a strategic minded

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investor mentality of where you want
to allocate resources is I think more

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what's happening. and it's not just
about nickel and diamond. there's also,

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you know, more personalities CFOs than
people think it's very, cross-functional.

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Some are extroverts, most are not,

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but they can be a very
friendly person who empowers

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ends a business partner
rather than a police force.

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So when we look at the space
of a CFO as an operator,

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you talked a little bit to me
about your operator's Guild.

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What personal experience do you have and
what have you gained in this level of

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expertise?

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Yeah, so, I mean, for
those who don't know,

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the operator's Guild has been
going on for eight years.

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It started as a eight,

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nine person friend group of operators
that we support one another.

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Now it's about 600. I say this because
there's a lot of conversations,

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there's a lot of learnings. So I'm
only going to scratch the surface. A,

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few things. One, all of
businesses, all of startup is,

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is a bunch of people who decide to get
together at eight in the morning to build

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something,

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to sell for more than hopefully
it costs that's all the businesses

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or a startup. Let's call it a startup
call, whatever you want to call it, just,

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and notice it's humans,
you take away the humans,

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computer's not going to do anything
themselves. And that's number one is

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business is a game. So when things
are crazy or stressful, it's like, no,

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one's dying here. This is not
real life and death. It's serious.

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Don't get me wrong. We are very
competitive, but there's a lot of natural

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dysfunction when you toss in
money, growth expectations and

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people, dysfunction is just basic.
So that's kind of a learning. and,

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also work with good people.

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It just goes back to the business is just
a bunch of people. It's not worth it.

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You can make your money elsewhere. If
it's not with good people who respect you,

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who you respect them, shared values.
It's actually very similar to a marriage

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it's just not intimate, right? But
it's the same thing. Shared values.

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You go on dates that are called
interviews. You get divorces, you know,

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it's because when things
are not matching up,

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another one is don't let stereotypes or

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misconceptions tell you how you should
act in your role, play your strengths,

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establish yourself as if you're gonna
be a strategic CFO, be one that said,

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maybe you have a, stronger person who
compliments you on the expense side.

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Who's, much more, you know,
doctor knows so to speak, right?

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That're all really, or, vice versa.
You're someone that's extremely conscious.

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You know,

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you need to marry that with someone
that's a little bit more strategically mi

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nded and growth minded. Just,,
that's just an example, but,

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play to your strengths,

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be who you are and hiring is super

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important. Probably the key to everything,

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all things in start are just problems.

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All we're doing is
problem solving every day.

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If you can put together the
right team tools, resources,

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you can solve any problems. So
those are kind of learnings.

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Okay. No, that's great. I
think that's really nice.

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and just thinking about the CFO, you
talked, when we, my first question,

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you talked a lot about the
misconceptions you knew.

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I think you laid that out
very nicely with the Dr. No,

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and the Gilbert examples and stuff.

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but a lot of people tend to under
underestimate what the CFO sees because

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because of this, these
misconceptions that can be there.

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And if the CFO hasn't established
himself as like a business partner,

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it can be very difficult
to get a seat at the table.

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Can you talk a little bit about what the
responsibility the CFO has to kind of g

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et there so that they're
not underestimated?

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I think the first one is before you
get married, you should establish that.

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I would question

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a company where CFOs not at the
table, not, not because of CFOs,

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you know, all that. It's just
because it's, too important

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of a function just like CRO or CTO.

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So that's just point number one,
if you're fighting to get there.

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So something's already a little
off and you need a question,

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how they value and what they
expect from the function.

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If you're in the unfortunate
seat of, you're not,

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don't have a seat at the table.
I think it's a very clear,

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I believe in explicit conversation
and communication. It's like, Hey,

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Mr. And Mrs. CEO, this is a function
that's critical to the business.

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I'm not talking about myself.

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I'm talking about the function and
for the sake of the business and our s

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takeholders,

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it's important that I'm in the room
or whoever's leading a function.

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Would you agree or
disagree if they disagree?

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I would seriously consider finding a
place where you can make a bigger impact

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and, and be valued, because it
should be a high impact role.

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So you're you have the seat
at the table, you know, ,

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you're there with everybody. What
does that look like? What does that,

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CFO's responsibility look like
today? As opposed to, you know,

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the stuff we've already talked
about, the misconceptions and the Mr.

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No's and all that stuff.

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The,

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first thing is I believe all functions
should be business. First function,

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second business, first legal,
second business, first accounting,

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second business, first marketing, second.

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Everything is in service of the business.

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So I think that's the first
mindset you should have.

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The second is there's a difference
between tactics and strategy asking

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very important questions I
think is actually something

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that people underestimate in
terms of stirring conversation,

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getting to know the business
better, and at a certain level.

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So I think when you're at that
table, depending on your audience,

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you do need to operate and talk at a
higher level and not get caught in the

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weeds at the same time to be at that
table. You need to know the details.

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If you don't know them for
details, they, you know,

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they just call you ivory tower. Right.

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You're just talking without really any
true understanding of the business.

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So it's both understand the business well,

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but elevate up and talk at
a very strategic high level.

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in terms of topics of
conversation, I think generally

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I like to call it non-linear so
rather than, oh, we need more revenue.

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So I guess we need to grow
the sales team. Like, okay.

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That's like tactical and
sometimes obvious it would be

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if we have an asset heavy model,
should we consider asset light?

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Have we tried to take this entire team
and move them to a lower cost area?

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We do, you know, one idea that was
awesome. Wasn't mine, but it's like,

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Hey, we, do host checkins. What
about self-service checkins?

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So be a part of the business discussion,

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product discussions and all of
them. When you think about it,

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just lead to better
allocations of capital, right?

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People think capital allocation is,

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more of a budget product is a
major allocation of capital where

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you said where you spend it, what
types of products generate, what

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the return on that.

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So that that's really where
I think the CFO now sits.

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And of course there's fundraising, right?

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The most unique thing about a CFO
is that they really help with the,

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capital needs of the business.

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So there's a whole bunch of
strategy there there's risks.

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You take there's intentional risks,
there's unknown risks. There's.

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And the last thing I think is
preparing ahead, seasoned operators,

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the benefit they bring is they see
six months, 12 months, 18 months,

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24 months out because a lot of
times the breaking distance on these

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high growth companies are so far,

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you have to be making decisions
today to affect 12 months from now.

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And unseasoned people unfortunately find
out when the brick wall is in front of

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their face and you're going
at 700 miles per hour.

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That's quite a visual there.
 what you've been describing,

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really kind of connects
for me like the CFO,

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how important they are with things like
strategy and data and understanding

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those things. And you present those
things properly for the organization and,

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and giving the, the input that,

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that is there for the strategy when,

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determining those things and having the
right data in place to, to support that,

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are there, can we maybe focus a little
bit on tools because when you're a CFO,

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you need the right tools at your disposal.

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Are there some common tools
that help drive strategy?

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And maybe you can talk a little
bit about innovation there.

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and I think what's most important
for our listeners is, you know,

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how do they go about getting their hands
on these tools and learning from them

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and learning to use them?

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Because I think that's because
you don't want to be that, that,

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CFO with the brick law, right in
front of you going 700 miles an hour,

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you want to be prepared and get to that
point where you will become seasoned.

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And that way you've described.

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And the biggest change that
I actually forgot to mention,

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but misconception is I think the office
of the CFO will eventually become

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the business intelligence
center right now.

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BI lives can be living under
itself. It can live under a COO,

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it can live under product and
engineering's very common.

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But when you think about a centralized
organization, a CFO comes to mind.

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Why? Because we're finance.

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I think about like the nervous
system nervous have to be everywhere.

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The bloodstream, it has to be everywhere,

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but it feeds nourishes and helps
and partners with air quote,

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the organs or the
functions of the business.

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So number one tool is data. So
number one is having the data.

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Number two is clean data, which
is the biggest and hardest one.

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After that it's systems and
tools to democratize and

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extract decision making insights.

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That's what I think is where the CFOs
headed. And this goes back to, you know,

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my, I have a mentor who,

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made a famous analogy of finances
like the weather there's three levels.

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And the goals that get to level three,
which most do not get to level one

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is reporting the weather.
What happened yesterday?

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It was sunny. It was cloudy. That's just
called reporting. Not easy to do well,

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but you get that done after
you get that done. Level two is

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forecasting the weather it's gonna
be star. It's going to be stormy.

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It's going to be dark.

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It's going to be sunny
translation forecast P and L
the third is influencing the

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weather. I'd go. As far as
I say, changing the weather,

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it's going to be stormy six
months from now. We can do X, Y,

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and Z and make it sunny that's data.

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The more data rich of businesses,

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the more complicated a business is the
more power there is of influence there is

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to actually say,

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did you know that half our
users are looking for this?

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So why don't we change our product
to do that? You know, sounds easy,

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but those make all the difference in
the world. Times a hundred of those.

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So the number one tool is business
intelligence, which combines everything.

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It's not just about sitting on top of
data. It's, not about a fancy system.

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It's putting it all together. And lastly,

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why is the CFO uniquely qualified
or the office of the CFO?

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Most people work in a
function, sales, marketing,

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engineering, their job is to
focus and dedicate in one arena,

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the job of CFOs to tie it all together
and help bring it all together.

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And then there's obviously, you
know, other functions like that too.

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But when you have finance,
that's a lot of data as well.

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People forget that accounting is a
crap, ton of valuable data of all sorts.

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So the combination of accounting,
data, forecasting data, customer data,

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sales data, product data is I
think going to be the future.

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And it's gonna sit somewhere around the
CFO space, obviously CEO space as well.

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So as I think that's great, those
tools sound very clear for the youth,

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for the CFO, as they're
looking at that, you know,

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as we wrap up our conversation, I
think, you know, I wanted to ask you,

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because I know that you're in
a number of different ventures.

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Are there other opportunities out there
for CFOs to connect with other CFOs,

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so that they can help, you know, build
themselves up and just really, you know,

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get the knowledge needed at a time?

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I mean, selfishly, the answer is the
best one I know is called operator Guild.

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like co-founder did, like I said,
as an innocent solved problem,

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I had about eight, nine years ago.
It's a wonderful community and

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it's a great way to give
back mentor mentee. So

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operators Guild is, is
the place, in my opinion,

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for the most value of getting
support, giving it learning, giving,

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and participating.

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This has been Count Me In IMA's podcast,

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providing you with the latest
perspectives of thought leaders from the

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accounting and finance
profession. If you like,

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what you heard and you'd
like to be counted in for
more relevant accounting and

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00:16:25,311 --> 00:16:28,390
finance education, visit IMA's
website at www.imanet.org