Show Notes
We talk to Kate McKiernan
COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet In computer? Let me see your sweatshirt. Oh, it says don't now. Listen, I love it. It is not my mood of the day. Oh, usually I like to dress according to my mood. Okay. My mood is not don't because it's Virgo season and Friday, Friday.
1 (53s):
Yeah. Also Kelly McAdam's birthday and the same birthday. Same exact birthday. And Russell's is I think it's like on the 19th. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I love Virgos Libras and Virgos get along splendidly. Okay. Do you have any other Virgos in your life? My old boss used to be a Virgo that the one that I actually really liked at Lutheran social services and a lot of my work people have been Virgos just like coworkers and we get along really good. So Virgos to me are like, if Scorpios took their medication and Scorpios hate, I hate when, I mean like I've, I've gotten so much flack for like, I have such trouble with Scorpio women, such trouble.
1 (1m 45s):
I mean, doesn't everybody. Well, I don't know. Some people love them. A Scorpio. I Scorpio women are like, for me as if I would rather be trapped in an elevator with a monster than a Scorpio woman, you know what I'm saying? Like I just, my, my, my old roommate from way back was a Scorpio and she did some really crazy shit. Like the most aggressive shit I have ever seen in a human being in my life. And I was like, and then subsequently I've met Scorpio women who I'm like, oh, this is all the same.
1 (2m 30s):
You're all the same person. What is happening here? So like things that are just kryptonite to me and also things I need to work on, but like passive aggressiveness in terms of like dealing with a passive aggressive person, some people like don't take passive aggressive people. Seriously. They're able to be like, oh, that person's passive aggressive. I'm like, oh my God, they're gonna kill me. Yeah. Like I have to run for my life. And then their feedback is really hard for me to take. And yeah, I just, I have, I have a real fear and it's, and, and I remember I was in a play and we were talking about that and I said out loud, like, oh my God, I have not thinking someone.
1 (3m 17s):
Who's probably a Scorpio. I feel like I have such problem with Scorpio women. And this Scorpio woman goes, what's your problem? And I was like, oh, you're a Scorpio woman. This is, and I want it to be like, this is my problem. But I was just like, oh, I just, I really find you terrifying. She was like, what? Why? And I was like, well, there's the tone. That's the tone. That's what I'm talking about. So anyway, Virgos, not that. So Virgos have this for me. The same kind of, they're more okay. Like Scorpios, the control issue seems so great. And Ruggles, the control issue. They, in my, in my experience, they use the control issue to get organized rather than terrorize other people.
1 (4m 3s):
Right. So wait, was your mother? No, they were all my mom and dad were Aquarians and like, just know my mother might know, you would think my mother, she was maybe her rising or her moon was Scorpio because she was so Scorpio. She was not, they were neither of that. My dad was more of an Aquarian. But in any case, it's your birthday week? It's Virgo. It's Virgo season. It's my birthday week. The big four. Sick. Are you, are you? I always, I thought I've been for six. So there you go. What are you, are you going to do something, anything, a party like dinner with your family.
1 (4m 43s):
I'm going to do a party, but I'm sure we'll have dinner or something. I mean, Friday's a nice day and actually Aaron's taking the day off, so that'll be good. So we'll do something. I was going to ask you, how did your kiddos self-tape go? Oh, it went just fine. Yeah. Thank you for your help with that. Yeah. For those of you listening. Yeah. I called boss because we had to do a self-tape with no dialogue and not only no dialogue, he was supposed to be in a fist fight with a bunch of people. It just seems like really? I mean, my thing is like, why you could either just ask for a full body slate at which they did too, or have him read something else.
1 (5m 27s):
That's not for the part. I just don't understand. Like, everybody looks stupid punching the air. It's not, it you're so right. And I think all that is needed there. And this is just like my, you know, soap box about the industry. All that's needed is a little extra attention to detail. One sentence in there. Please give us a shot of facial reactions as if this person was watching or afraid or in a fight watching a fist fight. Because that's really what they're looking for is to, you said it a full body slate to see what their body looks like and their facial reactions. I mean, all that's needed is a sentence, like all that.
1 (6m 10s):
And I feel like that a lot about, I feel like I'm not an actor anymore, which is a whole nother, which is okay. But like, when I cause now talking about it, I'm like, I, I haven't had an audition a really long time, but like, I just, it's true. You have auditions all the time. Wow. I mean, you've had you had an audition couple of weeks ago, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I guess in my head, I sort of have like, I mean, when I talk to other actors, they're like, since the pandemic I've had too much. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, that's not my experience. Okay. So good perspective. Good perspective. But like, I, I, when I listened to, when I think about acting and casting and stuff like that, now I'm like, okay, like how can we make it easier for the actors?
1 (6m 54s):
And how can we, so when you and I are writing something that gets produced or when I'm doing something else, like, I don't know, writing in a writer's room or something, it's like, how can we make people's jobs easier and not harder and more, you know, because I guess what if you make anybody's job easier, everybody's job is easier, I think is so fundamentally true that we are just missing. And I think it's, end-stage capitalism again of like, no, no, no, no, no. Actually, if you, if, if you help one person, the whole, the whole team thrives, this is not what capitalism is, is based on.
1 (7m 35s):
So, so yeah. And, and miles was talking about, you know, my husband was talking about the like elections and things like that. And I, and, and global, we were talking about a global warming crisis. And I just said, you know, like, it always comes down to like, we tried, like some of us tried and some of us are trapped, but like humans on planet earth, especially in the west, gave it a shot. And maybe, maybe the, you know, the planet is kicking us off and we're how long can you stick around in a place and treat it so poorly on so many levels before you're kicked out of the club, you know, like we're getting kicked out of the club here. So, yeah.
1 (8m 14s):
Yeah. And this is the part of the whole Handmaid's tale story, which is so wild to think about because the premise, the conceit that they've adopted in the movie, which is not in the book or the television show, which is not in the book, is that all of this was done in part, in an effort to heal the planet. Like they did actually successfully reverse the impacts of climate change, at least from the Gilliad. Right. But at what cost, and I hope it's not trying to say, I hope it's trying to make that complicated and not say, Hey, if you want the climate to get better, everybody has to go into sexual servitude.
1 (9m 3s):
I don't think they're trying to say that, but I don't either, but it ends up feeling like that. It ends up feeling like in order for us pigs to stop behaving the way we're behaving, we'd have to do something. So outside of our comfort zone, which it's true. I mean, let's just hope it's not something that's also dehumanizing. Yeah. Let's hope it's electric vehicles across the board rather than sexual slavery. Yeah. Do you ever read, or do you follow on Twitter? Like any of the positive news accounts? No. I know. However, I have been watching a tremendous amount of dog rescue stories.
1 (9m 50s):
Like it really helps me well, now that I have a dog and I buy dog products, you know, the, the, the, the social media is no all that. So they send me all these stories and I really take comfort in the, and this was the same way actually, when my mom was dying, same thing of like the radical stories of change and, and healing that can occur in this happens to be within dogs. Cause that's what they're sending me videos of. But like, I love the idea of taking something that seems, what is it irredeemable? Or like, like you cannot save unsaveable and then it becomes this amazing creature.
1 (10m 31s):
So I find those really real, like the dog on the side of the road that you're like, oh, that dog is gonna die and gonna bite your face off in the process. And with patience and love that dog, what they don't show you is the countless sleepless nights and the craziness that they endure, the, the, the trainers and owners, but the dog becomes a very, very loving part of their pack, you know? So I've been watching that, but I, what are you talking about? News story? Like, there's feel good. Oh yeah. You can just, yeah. Yeah. You can follow, like, when they say this team of scientists have figured out how to, re-engineer a type of, what's otherwise a naturally occurring bacteria that eats carbon dioxide, that kind of stuff.
1 (11m 18s):
But actually, since you brought up the whole thing about the traumatized dog, I will just say that that speaks to the fact that dogs like people have neural plasticity. And so yes, you can be extremely abused and recover, but it's, it's such a concerted effort. It's it's, it takes no less than 100% of probably multiple people's time, love, caring, and attention, because it's just a learned, I mean, it's just a response to a learned, right? I mean, it's just a response to a habitual thing that has happened. So this the case of a dog, every time a human approaches me something as bad as it's going to happen, if that happened 1 million times and it would have to be 2 million, 2 million times that that the opposite happens.
1 (12m 10s):
Absolutely. It just comes down to being something that's yet more work, but it's really good news for humans that, that, you know, God, yeah. Even if you came from an extremely traumatized upbringing or experienced PTSD from combat or from whatever you it's terrible and you can recover, recover from it. And I think that's, yeah, that gives me a lot of hope for also for like, disorders that like, you treated like bipolar, you know what I mean? Borderline personality and by, but mostly I'm thinking personality disorders where they're like, there's no coming back from this was once the thought or people are like, they're lost causes.
1 (12m 50s):
And I think we need, I need any way stories now of like, oh yeah, we thought this was a lost cause. And, and actually it wasn't a lost cause, which is like crazy. Yes. Because isn't that at the core of when we, when we're worried about at this age, when we're worried that something is too late, that's what we're really saying is like, it's a lost cause there's no point in even trying because the window of opportunity has closed. First of all, I don't know why we think we know what the window of opportunity is. We could get hit by a bus tomorrow, you know, like there's really, no, it's not a good way to make decisions based on like, okay, well, if I'm 46, you know, the odds of me doing X, Y, and Z are slim.
1 (13m 43s):
So I just won't do it. That's not a good way to make it a no, it's really not. And, and, and it's all relative, you know, like, so I think that's why we need those stories of like that person that goes back to school at 78 and the person that, you know, those are important. And I, I think that's why I doom and gloom all the time is just so to me, it's just so attractive. Like, I, there are people that are just like the doom and gloom all the time that I cannot, it's just, yeah. Like you said, like, what is the point? What would then, what is the point then? What is the point? You know, and I, I think that there's always, there's always gotta be a glimmer of hope, you know?
1 (14m 28s):
But yeah. So his hope, there's always hope. There's hope. And I am also very actively this year. I think for the first time taking a real proactive approach to staving on tea staving off seasonal, effective disorder really plagues me. Yeah. Just making sure to get in my 30 minutes of exercise, trying to talk to myself about it. Like, cause I think the thing that has happened to me in the past is I don't want it to happen. I don't want it to happen. So I tell myself maybe it won't happen this year and then I feel completely underwater. And then when you're depressed is not a time where you can necessarily do a great job of helping yourself out of your depression.
1 (15m 12s):
It's much easier if you cope ahead or, you know, if you plan for these things, so whatever drinking my water, I bought this little, these little packets of I, you know what I hate, I love and hate vegetables. I really try to eat a lot of vegetables. Sometimes. I just feel like I'm a cow chewing its head. So I got these little, I don't know if it works. I'd love to hear from anybody who has a point of view about this, these little packets, like you put this little packet into your water and it's like, your it's like your greens is the equivalent of your greens. Nutrients. I say, try it. I mean, what, what is, I mean, I am making life easier in terms of that kind of stuff and it's not going to hurt and just do it.
1 (15m 55s):
Yeah. And the other thing is, you know, did I tell you I went and got all my labs done. Blood is perfect, except I am low on vitamin D. So, so have you had your labs done lately? No. And actually vitamin D that's the thing you have to be careful of. Yeah. So I think that part of my, I had been, I mean, look, I had a new dog and all this and I have, I had family in town that was like a tornado, but I also think that my fatigue, some of it was caused. I'm so quick to think that my stuff is emotional. Like so quick that it's your fault, my fault. I'm doing something wrong. I don't have boundaries. I'm a people pleaser. Like that's where my defaults, like that is where I go.
1 (16m 36s):
And I'm like, well, okay. But there's also this whole plethora of internal shit that's going on in our bodies that we have no control. Even if, you know, like I'm like taking really good care of my health, but my vitamin D is low and I'm out in the sun all the time, slathered in sunscreen. But I'm out in the sun. It's still low because of menopause. And because of life, I had to start taking an extra thousand mil, like a little pill a day. And she was like, this just happens to women as we get older. And I'm like, oh, that never would have crossed my mind. I would have thought I'm fatigued because I'm stiff. I'm not taking care of myself in some way. She's like stop. And you, you said something that really helped me, which was one of my fruit, my heart thing was first diagnosed. You're like a lot of this is genetic.
1 (17m 18s):
And I was like, oh my God, I am. So I am. So I, and I think this is a bootstrap SU you know, a meritocracy meritocracy, but that idea of like, no, no, it's not your levels in your body. It's something you're doing wrong. So for default in your character, right. And my doctor, and you have said like, okay, your dad and mom had like so many problems physically because they were human. And because they didn't take care of themselves because of their genetics, I never knew. And teeth are huge part of that, like teeth. And we play so much emphasis right on how we look and teeth in this, in our society, not in Britain, by the way, if you watch any of their television shows, but in any, especially their reality shows, I'm like, oh no, there needs to be reality show just about the fluoride problem.
1 (18m 11s):
Yeah. Right. There's no, there's no fluoride in their water. Yeah. It's not their fault. But man, I watched some British shows like crime shows and I'm like, oh, the true crime here is your teeth, my friend. But anyway, so, so, so yeah, so teeth and we, a lot of people have so much shame about their teeth, right? It's like my dentist was saying, it's like a 90% genetic with teeth and you can take the best care of your teeth and that shit could still fall out. And it's because your fucking parents and their parents' parents and their had shitty teeth. And I'm like, oh my God, we need to instill the, and also it's only been like one, maybe two generations that we've had this obsession with like perfect straight white teeth.
1 (19m 3s):
We need to let that go. We need to let that go. Let me run this by Talking about making assumptions that everything is your fault or that you're the cause of everything bad. I have a cute little story. So I listen to Sue Ollier's podcast, the strongly worded podcast, shout out Sue and Johnny, her co-host was Johnny. So she was telling the story, actually, she was only telling the story. She was just making like a casual reference. She said to him, you know, that podcast, I listened to blah, blah, blah.
1 (19m 47s):
I hate, I, I, I listened to it, but I hate listened to it because these ladies are talking and talking and they think they're doing this, you know, service to everybody, but they're not. And they're, and they're just these privileged and I'm listening to, oh my God, she's talking about us. That's hilarious. So I went through a whole thing. I felt embarrassed and angry and humil. I went through just this complete rollercoaster of emotions. I mean, in the 10 minutes that I'm sitting in my car, like write a memoir. Right. I thought I should call you.
1 (20m 28s):
And then I went, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. First of all, the chances that this is about me as if we're the only people, two women who have a podcast, right. As if we're the only one that she listens to. That's two as if, as if, as if, and I said, you know, I, I think the thing to do here is really to check the facts. Cause there was, I went, I tried to figure out what she was talking about from what she was saying, but I couldn't get the info. So I just messaged her on Facebook. And I was like, Hey, this is weird, but blah, blah, blah. And she goes, oh my God, did you think w she goes, did you really think I was talking about, you turns out she was talking about this podcast where people are talking about, it sounds like a little bit of a Gwyneth Paltrow thing.
1 (21m 23s):
Like, all you need is just $4,000 multivitamin and you'll be fine. And I just, it was progress because usually I don't check the facts used to be progress that I would even like, say it out loud. I used to just have this entire shame party just inside of myself and then be upset and act out. And then nobody could, you know, nobody who loves me know why I stopped doing that awhile ago. And I just recently started checking the facts and I recommend it highly because usually it's not about you. No, no. This is a great, great, great, great reminder.
1 (22m 3s):
I, I need this so much in my life of check the facts. Also take it to the nth degree, right. For me. And you've said this like, and then what, and then what on the podcast get to the truth. It's like, if someone is, and then what someone's mad at me, and then what I am ashamed and then what I feel nothing. And then what I don't exist. Okay. So your dad basically, or you don't exist or you're not important. You're not. So for me, that's where I go. Someone's mad at me. It's the end of the world. I have to get way better, way better at. And I think most, a lot of us do, I don't know at being okay if people don't like what we say, how I say it.
1 (22m 53s):
And, and if they really don't and they come to me with it, and then we can have a conversation about it. But if they don't come to me with it and I'm they making up that they hate me or like one, it's probably not about me, but even if it is about me, like, that's the thing, like, I'm going to, we're going to have meetings. I'm going to have meetings with people that are going to love me. I'm going to have a meeting with someone who's going to be like, not for me. She's a blankety blank. They can say anything, a space salient, a garbage truck. They can say anything. I gotta be able to carry on and soldier on and say, that doesn't mean that my w my work isn't good. That doesn't mean that I'm not good. That is the crux of my whole journey is like, and it's so obvious.
1 (23m 37s):
It's like, my mom would literally say to us, you don't exist to me. She would say that when she was mad at us. Oh yeah. When I would try, when my mom was mad at me, I would try to talk to her. And I'm talking, I'm like 10 years old. And I would be like, Hey, I'm sorry. I lost my jacket. Right. My J crew jacket that she spent, and it was a lot of money. I'm not saying it wasn't a lot of money, but I lost it. And I couldn't find it. And blah, blah, blah. And I would say, I'm so sorry that I lost my jacket. And she would say, I don't want to talk to you. You don't exist to me right now at 10. So that's where this comes from. It's not about complete, direct, cause it's not even like a euphemism, like she literally said, yeah, I literally said you don't exist.
1 (24m 17s):
And so, and so that is where I go immediately. And even if, even if someone says to me, you don't exist to me, which they, if they said, now I'd be like, oh, you're psychotic. But you know what I mean? Like, I'd be like, okay. But even if they say that, I have to be like, well, that's okay because I exist to me and I'm going to keep doing my thing. That's where I'm not there yet. But I think checking the facts is part of that process and saying, all right, all right, before you go there, let's check the facts. Okay. This person, they passed on your script. They don't want to work with you. They didn't hire you. You didn't pick you for the job. They don't want to be your friend. You know, they're not following the rules that you want them to follow.
1 (25m 0s):
Whatever it is. I gotta be. Okay. At least after 10 minutes, maybe it takes a half an hour. Maybe it takes a day to soldier on and do the thing that I need to do. Regardless of if someone publicly, like, let's say she did publicly shame us without saying our names, let's say someone does it. Like, it just goes online is like, this is a piece of shit that's going to happen. Probably if we put yourself out there. Right. Abs I mean, actually that's a sign that you're getting somewhere is that people who literally have no connection to you whatsoever listening to your, and so to see it, like that is a very adult sort of integrated way to see it.
1 (25m 42s):
And it's like, how can I get there? You know, to that place of, well, at least they're talking about us. At least you're talking about me. That's a good thing there. You know, it's really a mature, it's a mature point to get to versus I want to fix that. So they like it. Yeah. I mean, and you could just spin your wheels forever, trying to run around and convince everybody why they shouldn't eat you or why they should think you're great. It doesn't work. It's a waste of your time and it makes you feel bad. I worked it. Like I said, this to the manifesto. It would have worked.
1 (26m 22s):
If people pleasing worked, we'd be famous and rich and happy and thin and beautiful. And, and at peace in that world, in that world, it doesn't, I'm here to say, I've tried it my whole life, 45 years, almost 46. I can't tell you that. I can tell you that I've ever, ever, ever. When I come from a place of, please like me, please pick me. Please choose me out of desperation. The shit doesn't work. I wish it did. Ladies and gentlemen, you've done the research and your conclusion and your hypothesis that it would work, was wrong.
1 (27m 3s):
It's failed miserably. I can tell you more than I know anything on this planet. I know that that, that people pleasing and trying to fix managing control other people's reactions to me and my work and my life. And it's an absolute zero. And even when you think it works, it works temporarily. And the people never trust you because you're just doing it to get them to like you. Right? Exactly. Which people inherently don't have respect for it. In fact, it doesn't work so much that I'll tell you that the inverse is true. It better actually works. When you don't care about what anybody thinks to the point that your associate, that I'm listening to the cause Elizabeth Holmes they're in us trials.
1 (27m 49s):
You turned me on to that little thing. That is fantastic. Yes. Yes. So the podcast called the dropout that I listened to whatever it was like three years ago. I think when it came out, there are now publishing new episodes because of the trial and this bitch. I mean, she just waltzes around San Francisco. She's married. She married a rich guy. There's this great story in the podcast of a guy who used to work in the company, like a pretty high up guy who he and his entire family were completely devastated by the exposing of, of her and the company.
1 (28m 31s):
And he lost that. He, he had shares and he lost everything, whatever. And he's sitting out to dinner with his wife and he notices somebody looking at him and he looks up and it's her. And she, she didn't stand out to him at first because she wasn't wearing her black turtleneck and she was wearing like a hoodie or whatever. Anyway, she comes over just as casual as can be and says, Hey, oh my God, it's so great to see you. Hey, listen, I'd love to have coffee with you. I'd love for you guys to be back in my life. And the sky says, I'm so flabbergasted. You know, like, I don't know what to say. I could barely manage to just basically give her no response to, you know, do you want to have coffee with me?
1 (29m 13s):
And he just couldn't believe like to him, he's still sitting in the, actually in the shame and the devastation and for this other person to act like nothing happened. I mean, for the devastation, I mean, she's the evil chief evil force. And she just waltzes in and says, Hey, hi, she's not shameful. She's not hiding. She's not running screaming from the bar, hiding from him. She fucking approaches her. What is she? Like, cuts it off at the past. She's like, oh, you're going to, you think you're going to shame me? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to just waltz in and swoop in and take you off guard.
1 (29m 55s):
And what in the hell and worse, she has no idea that anybody could feel any shame about this because she doesn't feel any shame about anything because she's a true sociopath. And this is why she got as far as she did. And frankly, this is why she will probably not go to jail, go to jail and serve a short sentence, go to jail and write a book and become a millionaire anyway. Like it's just, it's it never, it's so fascinating. I think part of why we love Colts and stuff is we really can't relate to the person that you have to be to make a cult work. Like it's, it's, it's just like a specimen. And we might as well be at the circus watching a specimen of like unbridled, lack of shame.
1 (30m 42s):
I think that that's yes, for me, that is the, yes, that is the opposite, right. Of who I am and how I grew up. And it is so tantalizing to think that that's possible. And it's like, they're doing on for me, I'll speak for myself. Like these cult leaders are doing with which a part of me wishes I could do. Right. Which is say, I'm going to do what I want to do. You're all going to follow me because I'm so curious Matic. And I'm going to feel no shame about anything and just fucking live my life and be rich. And there's a part of me that thinks that's so awesome. Now, of course, there's a part of me that knows that that's so horrific to other people, but we've swung in such the other.
1 (31m 26s):
I'll say for myself, I've swung in such the other people pleasing direction at times that it feels like freedom to run a call like a, not give a shit and tell people, no, no, no, this is what we're going to do. You're going to do this. I get to wear what I want. Look what I want. I'm going to, she changed her voice. I'm going to change my voice. And you're still going to buy into me. What in the fuck? So let's do a thought experiment. What? Okay, so the problem with most sociopath's, I mean, the ones that we hear about the notorious ones, they kill people. If they kill people and they ruin people's lives in the cases of like the Ted Bundy's of the world, it's because they experienced such severe trauma.
1 (32m 6s):
I don't think that was Elizabeth Holmes case. I think her case may, it may have been that she was kind of shunned socially and she was really smart. And her parents really gave her this idea that she could be anything she wanted to be. So, so she had like some, some actually pretty good protective factors. What would it take or what would it look like if you could know at birth at somebody has this sociopathy gene and how could you as caregivers, you know, harness it for some, because the, the thing that's really valuable is the charisma. I mean, we, as a society, do look to leaders of all stripes to tell us what to do.
1 (32m 54s):
And in fact, if in, in any given situation where there is no leader, we're a natural leader. Doesn't emerge. It makes people very anxious. So we have to always find a leader. We have to always find somebody to look toward. And there probably are people who exist in this world who are that? They're the good sociopath, like they're there because they don't care about what other people think of them. They're able to achieve a lot in the, they achieve something that's really helpful for society. But isn't that interesting to think about what would it, what could imagine, what good we could do? I mean, you'd get the, the more of the, I would say, like, you know, it's interesting.
1 (33m 36s):
Cause I, I keep thinking of these examples, like Martin Luther king Jr. Did it, and then you find out all, they beat their wives. I don't know if he did, but there's like rumor, you know, I cheated, he cheated a letter and then, then Picasso, same thing. Or like, I just mean, and the Dalai Lama apparently is, can be a giant asshole. I mean, cause he's human. Right. That's the problem is that they're also human. But if you could harness the yes, the drive to lead, I mean, I guess that's why they create all these fucking schools Waldorf than fucking whatever Steiner Rudolph, you know, like to try to get kids to harness that. It's just that I think as humans, it's, we're always going to live also in opposite land.
1 (34m 20s):
Right. So it's like you have this charismatic leader, they also happen to be a womanizer or whatever. I, I don't know. Yeah. It's a great, we need to go to camp camp when we're young and for a long time and just be like, okay, like leaders, you know, like people look to people at JFK, June, you know, not junior JFK as a leader, but he was also kind of, you know, such a narcissist. And so, so it's like, what in the hell? What in the hell? Well, I'll tell you something the way that science has progressed in terms of DNA sequencing. It's not long before.
1 (35m 0s):
If you want to, you can know this about your child in utero and that will breed some interesting. It really will. It will. It will. And no like, yeah, if you, if your child is more genetically predisposed to being a sociopath or even a psychopath, I mean, what do you do and where do they go to school and what kind of meds do they take? And is that, is that something we want to start regulating really young? And I don't know, man, I don't know, but you're right. I think we're gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna have be breed some real interesting shit. Yes. Real interesting shit.
0 (35m 37s):
Well,
2 (35m 42s):
Today on the podcast we're talking with Kate McKiernan. Kate is someone who went to the theater school at DePaul university with us. And we had a delightful time catching up with her. Kate is part of the Andrew CLIs and the lion final performance story. If you follow along with the podcast, you know this story and she's the missing piece, she's hilarious. She's a Reverend and she's a blast. So please enjoy our conversation with Kate McKinnon,
3 (36m 10s):
Such a weird guy.
1 (36m 11s):
Every time it comes out, we've heard it from, you'll be like the sixth person's perspective, which is cool
3 (36m 20s):
To get. I haven't heard it from other people too.
1 (36m 23s):
It's really interesting because we heard this from Stephanie who, the role that you had from pause, obviously from like at least one person who was on crew, who remembers that as a magical, you know, the person who brought it up, hadn't listened to any of our podcasts. It was just like, oh, and this one time was on crew and this crazy thing happened and we will get it. Congratulations. You survived theater school. No, you really did. And I love, I mean, obviously our listeners won't see this, but your background, like your house where you live, looks so cool.
3 (37m 7s):
I it's, it's curated so that everything cool is in like one vision spot.
1 (37m 13s):
It looks like you live in this pool, like crazy, like artists, studio, like huge lofty artists
3 (37m 22s):
Always put an easel behind you. It makes you look
1 (37m 30s):
Okay. Was it when you decided to go to a conservatory? Was that something that you, that you did intentionally? I mean, many of our guests kind of happened into a theater school experience. Some but some of some people had in mind from, from a young age, what about you?
3 (37m 50s):
Well, I was obsessed with going to a conservatory, but I had zero experience. I'd never taken an acting class. I'd never, you know, like I had nothing to base this obsession except for maybe episodes of
1 (38m 9s):
Jesse. Jesse was my jam. I was in love. Yeah.
3 (38m 12s):
Oh man, the keyboard is brutal, so I'm a nerd, but yeah, like I, I don't know. I, so I had to convince my parents that this was even a thing. And then like, and my mother was completely like, I don't, I think you should go to law school. And I was like, I feel like it's early for that. Yeah, exactly. My dad on the other hand, like kind of surprised me and had bought, bought me a ticket with him to Chicago for the big audition scenario. And I was like, oh my, oh, oh, okay. So I guess I should probably learn them all a log.
3 (38m 57s):
So yeah. So like I, like my dad kind of was like my secret, you know?
1 (39m 3s):
And there's a, there's a picture of you and him, right. That you posted from a post theater school show on Facebook. That's really quite beautiful. I hope you've sent it to us. Please send it to us if you have Really beautiful. Is your father still around? Yeah,
3 (39m 20s):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But yeah. It's like he, he was, I didn't believe I could do it. And I mom got on board, you know, it's just in case she's listening
1 (39m 36s):
In from Kate, where did you have to travel from, to go
3 (39m 38s):
To Colorado Springs, Colorado. So nobody went to theater school from Colorado Springs, Colorado,
1 (39m 47s):
But little, literally fame. But there had to be some origin story for your obsession. Was it fame or was there something else that made you want to act?
3 (39m 57s):
I had been in, I had been doing all of the shows in schools since the get like in third grade there was a talent show. And I said that I wanted to be the MC because I had more stage time. Like, so like I did forensics competitive speaking in high school, which the theater school did not enjoy competitiveness. Like everybody, because I talked about forensics a lot, the professors were kind of had it in their mind. Well, they had it in their mind that I was like that I was doing acting as like a competitive sports.
3 (40m 41s):
And they're like, and, and, and I'm sure that they probably saw something that I didn't, but I was like, I don't think I'm doing that.
1 (40m 50s):
But also there's like, like the, what I've noticed is that a lot of our guests have done forensics and it really propelled them to want to go to the theater school. And my understanding is that the conservatory teachers think that forensics is like less than in a way, not all of them, but like some, so like they have a whole like, well that was high school speech team. This is the big leagues. And you're like, okay. But yeah, so
3 (41m 21s):
I think that, but I think that forensics opened up my eyes to a national thing. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, oh, there's other people that like to do what I do. And so I bet you there's a school. So, but at the same time, we're also like if you're doing the humorous interp, you're doing the <inaudible>. So the, I can see where that they're like, oh, we don't do that here. Right.
1 (41m 51s):
I bet it opened up your eyes. Like I think a lot of people would not end up at DePaul theater school if they didn't do forensics. And so they actually should be real grateful for forensics and I, I should have done for like, I, when I hear people talk about forensics, I'm, I'm so longing. I should've participated. Cause it sounds like it was really fun for you.
3 (42m 12s):
Well, yeah, absolutely. And there's like part of me that's like, should I join Toastmasters as a 47 year old woman
1 (42m 20s):
Teach Toastmasters?
3 (42m 22s):
Right. I loved that whole scenario. I loved just like, like walking in and doing the stuff like winning the awards. So, which is exactly what the professors hated. So
1 (42m 38s):
It has been a one, a 180 that your experience of doing performance from that versus day one, lay on the floor and LOL your tongue around in your mouth.
3 (42m 52s):
I had no idea what I was in for. I had zero. I had gotten a coach for my audition. So like one of the local actors from the fine arts center or whatever helped me like put together Ella MAs and Arie. And my name is Alice, right? So like, like these old, old, like kind of cliche monologues. And, and so I show up at like, first of all, I get accepted, which is out of like out of left field. And, and I auditioned for like eight schools and applied to like 12 because that's me.
3 (43m 33s):
And so I got accepted and I was like, this is ridiculous. Nobody from air academy, high school has gone to theater conservatory ever. And so, and I showed up and I, I mean, like the first day I was attacked by saffron hanky and like, and she's just like such an artist. And I'm like, oh, I might've made a fear.
1 (44m 1s):
Well, wait, did we do, did you get it? Like, how did you choose DePaul?
3 (44m 6s):
I chose DePaul because two of my friends went to north central and Northwestern. So I was like, so I have people in Neighborville and Evanston, which turns out like, is far when, like you're 18 in Lincoln park in 1993 to whatever. So, so yeah, the like, but it was, I was like, they went to Chicago. So Chicago.
1 (44m 35s):
Yeah. That was smart. Yeah. That was smart. Like, I think, you know, you had,
3 (44m 38s):
Yeah. And if DACA was, was out in the boonies and I didn't want to be in the boonies, I wanted to be in a city and Pepperdine, like was another option. And, and part of me is like, I really missed the boat on Pepperdine
1 (44m 57s):
Because of LA,
3 (44m 58s):
Because I ended up in LA anyway. And like, it's, it's kind of like, and it was more like, it wasn't a conservatory, so it was much more like, which I could've maybe used.
1 (45m 11s):
I always say I had no idea where Afghanistan was when I graduated college. Like I could tell you where my soft palate could take me. But if you asked me about the middle east, you know, conflict, I'd be like middle east, Illinois.
3 (45m 26s):
I can buy base through the middle of my eyes.
1 (45m 30s):
If you asked me about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, we're in real trouble. So anyway,
3 (45m 36s):
No for sure, like real life, but also like also, like I could have worked and auditioned in LA and been going to school. You know what I mean? Like all of those things that I just anyway has not taken, but, but Chicago was this big city and this urban environment. And I was like, this is absolutely what I want to do. But did you do
1 (46m 0s):
12 auditions?
3 (46m 2s):
I did. Let's see six. I did. Yeah. I walked on to Carnegie Mellon. I did SMU. I did.
1 (46m 10s):
Oh my God. You didn't just apply to school schools. You auditioned for Covering melon intense, right?
3 (46m 18s):
Oh, for sure. Oh my God. It was like jumping through hoops and I didn't get into Carnegie Mellon because I think halfway through, I was just like exhausted and well was the first one to accept me too. So I was like,
1 (46m 32s):
And did you do your same two monologues for all the, all the places? Okay.
3 (46m 38s):
Yeah. I did some, I did a Shakespeare monologue and I, like, I had other stuff in my tool kit.
1 (46m 45s):
That was smart. You know, the smartest people I know have had more than two monologues. I did not. And so when art at Harvard asked me, do you have another something else we could see? I literally said no, but I could tell him to tell you some jokes. It did not. I did not get in there. Anyway. The point is you were prepared. You had it.
3 (47m 7s):
I was really, I was, I think possibly I've never been prepared for that.
1 (47m 13s):
You said that you that's, you, you applied to 12 schools that made me think that your misses go getter. Like we're always really prepared. Always.
3 (47m 23s):
No, I'm just, I'm just always building the next net. So I'm always,
1 (47m 30s):
There's, there's the backup plan and then the backup to the back to the backup plan. But, but it turns out that none of those work, so I don't recommend that as a lifestyle. Oh, say more about that. What do you mean?
3 (47m 45s):
Well, because like, I like the things, the big things that happen to you, you could never expect in your entire life, you know what I mean? Or the big things that you were a part of or the big things that, you know, like that they're going to come from behind and hit you in the back of the head. There there's no like planning,
1 (48m 4s):
I don't care. You can't really be prepared for a lot of the big stuff, but it was, you say you are a risk taker.
3 (48m 11s):
I think that, I think that I try to do the brave thing. You know what I mean? Like, I think that like, if I, if I were to think about it in my mind of like, let's take this risk, I probably be, Ooh, I don't think so. But Ooh, I'm going to be brave and do that.
1 (48m 32s):
I think of you. I, for some reason, my first thought is that you're like all about Shakespeare. Did I make that up? Or,
3 (48m 41s):
Oh no. Well, I mean, I was the cause I went to Shakespeare and company. One of you went to Shakespeare and company. Yeah. So, so like, so I was so Christine and thank God. Yeah. So I, and I know that like people have vastly differing opinions on Christine, but I was very lost at theater school. Like I never got cast correctly or not correctly. I never got cast. And like, I just felt like I didn't know where I was and I didn't know how to even like cast myself in, I couldn't figure out what I even wanted.
3 (49m 20s):
And, and I just got a wild hair and I asked Christine about, about Shakespeare company. And I went between my third and fourth year. And I think, God, I mean, it saved me from hating acting. Cause I just felt like a failure constantly. And so, but I went to Shakespeare and company and they're like, you are brilliant.
1 (49m 47s):
You do there. What shows did you do there?
3 (49m 49s):
So I only did the intensive, I, cause I didn't have enough money to stay. So I like, and like Christine had wheedled me into some sort of like financial aid deal. And so like, I, I like w I drove out there and like, it was, it was crazy. Yeah. Joseph drove me to Shakespeare and company and then I like was there for four weeks and you know, it's intense, the intensity intense. And like we had a running tally on the wall of who, like who had made it the longest amount of hours without crying.
3 (50m 31s):
But, but yeah, like, and then I ended up kind of hitching a ride with one of the other women that was with me back to Columbus and then like caught a train. Like I, like, I was literally on the cheap and then I had like three jobs when I got that. So I only did the intensive.
1 (50m 49s):
You say day one saffron charges. You you're saying, oh wow. This is maybe I'm not like enough of an artist for this place. Is that what it was? It felt too artsy for. Yeah.
3 (51m 0s):
Well I know it just felt like people had actually acted to perform. So it was very, very low bar and, and, but people had ideas and theories about acting. And I was like, oh, I memorize lines. So that's going to be a thing.
1 (51m 24s):
Luna we've had so many guests that have said the same thing that like they thought acting was like, literally, I don't remember who it was said. They thought it was just memorizing your lines and walking out on stage and remembering your blocking and then speaking the lines. And that was it. Like, that was the whole cry. I think both of us, I didn't know what I thought. I didn't know. But anyway, so you, you were in that
3 (51m 48s):
Maybe with some, maybe with some like, like spirit fingers, you know, and then throw me into, you know, improv first year and I'm like, oh, no space in hand. No, no, this is terrible. And I was surrounded by people who just were like, like flourishing, you know, like, and I mean, Kat Phillips is like one of the most talented in provers in the history of the world. And, and so like, I'll like, all of these people were like, this is my calling. And I'm like, oh, this is the worst thing I've ever done.
1 (52m 32s):
And you realize I've never asked anybody. Cause it does seem like there's those who loved improv and were good at it. And those who hated it because they weren't good at it, but I've never asked anybody, is it because you just didn't like improv? Is it because you just didn't see? What was everybody was so excited?
3 (52m 52s):
No, I think I loved improv, but I, but the failure, the constant like mess up and like I'm already somebody who doesn't like that feeling. And so that was very difficult for me that I've never had a class that I couldn't figure out. And so the challenge of something so ephemeral to something that you can't like pin down and do in a way to make it right. Quote unquote, like, so I don't think that I hated improv. In fact, I like, I went on to do improv and love stuff and like, but like that year was about me learning to fail.
3 (53m 43s):
And I think that that was scarier than anything
1 (53m 50s):
Or David or
3 (53m 51s):
No, it was ad college. It was David.
1 (53m 54s):
Okay. And did you feel like you got the hang of it? Like when did it shift or did you always
3 (54m 1s):
No. I mean, I think David, like, I, I think David finally acknowledged that I could do it in like, like when he, when we were working out in LA, like, like, like I, like, I think, I mean, I'm pretty sure that David was like on the front end of getting the cut, so, huh. No, no, I got, but I got warned that year. And so like, and so I'm pretty sure that it was that like, that was where I was the most at a loss. And so, and I, and the more that I stressed about it, the worst,
1 (54m 45s):
I remember thinking, how can I literally, how can I please Rick Murphy and do this improv in a way that's going to get me praise. And that would always, it never worked. It backfired. It was the weird, it's one of those things where like the less shits you give, the more praise you get in some ways.
3 (55m 3s):
And so, and I think that like, like there were a lot of people, like obviously there were, there were lovers and haters of David. And, but like for me, I, I got so frightened that all I wanted to do is just blend into the chalkboard. And so, and that's not helpful either. And so like, there were moments that I felt like I got it that were just enough to keep me going. And then my other classes, like other classes were so much better for me. And then, you know, and then second year I had Dawn who is like my person. So, so that like every single time I thought I was just about to leave or fall on my face or whatever it was, something would pick me up.
3 (55m 53s):
So it,
1 (55m 55s):
You said you, you didn't get cast in things. I mean, this is a evergreen.
3 (56m 1s):
Oh my God, everybody I'm sure.
1 (56m 3s):
What was the nature of D did you feel like you were just getting small parts or,
3 (56m 11s):
I mean, I was only in one main stage and, and, and I had like, and I had pretty good casting, but I was like the trooper. I was always like, oh, well don't do it. I mean, what have you was an orgasmic too, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was great. Wasn't it? It was the best.
1 (56m 34s):
I'd love to know what your memory of that was because I'm so stuck inside of the walls of my own memory,
3 (56m 41s):
Because we had no connection to each other. I mean, like, can you, I don't, I, the only reason I know that is, cause I think you've mentioned it, but I don't remember anybody in the cast. My 30 minute monologue where I had a baby, like I literally had a baby on stage wearing a unitard.
1 (57m 2s):
Wait, you were wearing a unit charter. The baby was wearing it. Yeah. Oh, okay.
3 (57m 7s):
Well had a mind baby onstage. It was horrific
1 (57m 13s):
And you're wearing unitards that's quite something.
3 (57m 17s):
Yup.
1 (57m 18s):
Okay. Y Y I,
3 (57m 22s):
I don't know whose choice I honestly very well could have been mine.
1 (57m 27s):
No, I bet it wasn't your choice. Nobody chooses to wear a unitard. Kate.
3 (57m 34s):
I don't know. It's just like, but we also it's like a memorizing hell because it was like these 40 minute monologues. And like, so I remember just like, I just remember running around maniacally around the stage, trying to remember the lines, trying to, and cause I basically the way that I, that, that it was Jay wasn't it J Skelton? No.
1 (58m 2s):
Oh
3 (58m 3s):
Yeah.
1 (58m 5s):
Did you get notes from him? Every single note from him?
3 (58m 12s):
No, no, no. I basically moved around the stage into so that I could remember my lines based on where I was on that. And so, yeah, like I, because I couldn't, I couldn't remember the lines and I always have issues with memorization anyway, because like, it's always a sign for me that I'm not in the role if I can't remember it. And, and, and, and, and if I find flow, then I will never forget the lines. But, but, but that show, I don't know if I, I mean,
1 (58m 48s):
So what would you have liked to have played? Like, do you remember like, oh my gosh. I would love to have been cast as,
3 (58m 59s):
I mean, it doesn't even have
1 (58m 60s):
To be specific plays, but like kinds of rules, like who are you dying? What kind of role were you dying to?
3 (59m 6s):
I don't even think that I don't even think that I understood that I, that like that fabulous is what I wanted to play until I graduated from school. Like, like, and so, and that those are impossible roles, but that's what, like, so I had this grain in my head that I, that I, that, that it was like glamour. I was, I was broken that I wasn't in the women. And because I was like, but this is my thing and old Hollywood and like this, but I didn't have the idea of what that meant.
3 (59m 46s):
Do you see, like, I didn't have the idea of what those characters actually did. And Shakespeare was the obvious choice for me because you get all of that, like deep drama and like, you know, screaming from the rafter.
1 (1h 0m 8s):
It sounds like you wanted like, intense visceral, like there's no holds barred kind of acting situation. Okay. Yeah.
3 (1h 0m 18s):
Yeah. But like, but I don't know, but not, I don't know. No. Well, and I had never had any experience whatsoever in life, let alone in, I mean, which showed in my social life, my like my, my college social life was nothing but drama. Like it was, Oh yeah.
1 (1h 0m 53s):
Like with relationships and stuff.
3 (1h 0m 58s):
So I really remember more about my social life in college than some of the like class stuff. For sure. That's
1 (1h 1m 5s):
How you survived it. Right. I mean,
3 (1h 1m 8s):
I mean like, yeah, I guess,
1 (1h 1m 11s):
Can you tell us, like, what kind, you don't have to talk about people if you don't want, but like what, what's the dynamic of the drama? Because that's fascinating because I, like,
3 (1h 1m 21s):
There was just a lot of, there was just a lot of cheating and relationship stuff and, and meetings where people had to talk about their feelings and yeah, it was, there was just a lot of drama. I would say that was if I had translated some of the drama that I reported that I built outside of the theaters into what I was doing in the theater school. I might've been more successful
1 (1h 1m 55s):
Zeroed drama buzz. Did you have any drugs? I like, no, I like, I like members, I stole this girl's pants. That was like the end of my, that was started on began like the Christine course, she had his pants, but like, I didn't have, you know what it, maybe you were really, I mean, wanted by, by in relationships. I was not wanting people desired you Kate. I think that was the,
3 (1h 2m 23s):
I don't think, I think that is, I think that's extremely,
1 (1h 2m 28s):
Like, it sounds like you were actually fun and like, people want it to be around you kind of a situation
3 (1h 2m 33s):
Maybe, maybe, but I also was like kind of willing to do anything and mess things up on purpose so that might've been magnetic and Yeah, like I'm like, Hey, I'll miss that up sugar. Absolutely.
1 (1h 2m 54s):
I wish you could say more about
3 (1h 2m 56s):
Offline.
1 (1h 2m 59s):
Is that a path like a pattern or like something you've had to work with of like trying to sabotage or create drama?
3 (1h 3m 6s):
I had to, I had to learn to stop that after theater school, like I had to, to, and that, and that in itself, I think was a personal process for sure. Like, I, I just, I worked out being unpopular in high school in theater school, you know? And so I like my, my, my nickname in high school was literally Kate, the dateless winder and I, I may have overcompensated.
1 (1h 3m 39s):
Got it, got it. Well, good. I mean, good. You have to go the other direction Or gas.
3 (1h 3m 50s):
So let's see. Sleeping beauty. That was the one. Yeah, that was the one main stage I did. And that was Dawn and yeah. And it was, and it was such a, it was a great show and Zach was prince charming and Gretchen was leaping beauty. And I was like for Tanya the bad. Yeah. Yeah. So the, so yeah, that was, that was a very, very fun show to do. I got to blow up, you know, 75 times or whatever, which was great. And yeah. And then let's see, what did you love
1 (1h 4m 26s):
About Don Elko? Oh,
3 (1h 4m 32s):
Well he taught me, first of all, he taught like, and I know that, that sounds so basic. Like he specific to me, he taught me about intention. He taught me about taking a script and pulling it apart and finding what you need. And like, like Barry wrote things that I could hold on to that, that, and he was kind of the old school acting teacher. He was very much the hit, hit your mark and be there on the night. And like, and I, that worked for me like that because he's his whole point was you can't find the authenticity without deep understanding of what you want.
3 (1h 5m 19s):
And for me, that made perfect sense. And, and he always was, I mean, he was just as mean as everybody else, you know, but, but like, and David never yelled at me. And, but, and, but everybody always felt that I was holding something back and like all, a lot of other professors, like all of the voice department,
1 (1h 5m 54s):
Everybody's holding shit back.
3 (1h 5m 57s):
I'm like, I don't think, I just don't think I have any shit, which is its own problem, but D but Don really had that, that way of speaking to me personally, that I felt supported and I felt like I was in on the joke. And I think that that was also something that was really important to me. I felt like that, that on the, that I, I didn't get it a lot of times. And he made me feel, I feel like I, that we communicated in a way that was funny and supportive in, even when he was telling me that what I was doing was terrible.
1 (1h 6m 39s):
Right. It worked for you. Like, I feel like what I'm hearing is that he gave you practical tools and a language to use that may made you feel a little less lost at the theater school. And I think that that's really, really important, really important so that you had something to work with.
3 (1h 6m 57s):
I mean, he, even in Lincoln park foods, after orgasm adulthood, he screamed across three aisles. He was like that naked play. You did really good job. Oh, Everybody in the grocery stores.
1 (1h 7m 16s):
Yeah. Did you do right after you graduated? What did you go to LA right away?
3 (1h 7m 24s):
Well, I mostly messed up, but I ended up staying here. I got a whole bunch of leads in Los Angeles and then I ended up staying here. And so, I mean, not like our class did really well. I mean, all of us were like, I was driving the car with Jen and Zach and Mike. And like every, like we were minute to minute going to meetings. We had to share meetings because we had to go so many places. So like, and I mean, I got to her two, I think, or something, but that was a lot.
3 (1h 8m 9s):
And, and, and the first thing that I did was like, cool, I'll be right. And waited six months, like an idiot. Why, why did you do that? I'm sure it had to do with a guy, but I didn't, I didn't know that you could do that. You could just move, you know, and I also thought that I, because I had this, I had this very early thought like that I was never going to make it until I was at least 35.
3 (1h 8m 50s):
Like the roles that I wanted, the things that I wanted to do were older roles were, were more mature and that I wasn't an ingenue. And so I had all this extra time, I don't know where this came from
1 (1h 9m 5s):
At. Right. Cause, cause what you experienced is you go to LA, right. And they're like, you're an ingenue. We want to cast you. We would love for you to be, you know, Kate Hudson. And so come on out and you're like, just a second. I'm going to just sit over here. That's fantastic.
3 (1h 9m 22s):
Really, really shitty,
1 (1h 9m 24s):
Amazing. I mean, I just stunned by, by that and it, and just because we all do it in different ways. It's like, you want me, you think that I'm going to be a millionaire and you're going to help me, you know what I'm going to do. I'm waiting for the dough in my garage for like six months and then I'll be back. Hold on.
3 (1h 9m 45s):
It'll be fine. It will be fine.
1 (1h 9m 47s):
Yeah. Like this is not on my sabotage timeline.
3 (1h 9m 54s):
Well, and I also wanted to be out of school, I think like so badly that I didn't want to rush to any did do anything because I had felt so like, I mean, it took me another year before I took another class and you need to take class right away. Like, and like, so I, I feel like I just, I took a vacation instead of tightening the bolts shit.
1 (1h 10m 27s):
I think that in the six months you, you squandered whatever opportunity you had going into it.
3 (1h 10m 33s):
I see. Yeah. I didn't, I mean, I like basically the manager that I met with and, and I, and I flew back out to LA at the end of June and met with the manager that I, that I liked. And, and he's like, we'll just put you on, ER, and get you your sad card. And I was like, fantastic. Didn't do it. I don't know I was in the, I was in an elevator with Tom Selleck. What could be more convincing? Well,
1 (1h 11m 1s):
How do you make sense of it now? I mean, is it, is it literally just, I was sabotaging something or do you, do you have,
3 (1h 11m 7s):
I think that, I think that I was, I, I had, like, I had no thought about it. Like it was something things kept happening like financially or whatever. What have you like, or, or like, I was just like, I'm just going to make a little bit more money and then I'm going to go here. And then like, it just, things just kept happening.
1 (1h 11m 32s):
Right. So Cisco, like life stuff came up that was like, I'll get to LA, I'll get to LA.
3 (1h 11m 38s):
But it like, but none of it looking back was important enough to stay in Chicago. Like, but it would, but at the time it seems like, oh, well I'll figure it out in a few.
1 (1h 11m 53s):
I totally can relate. And then looking back for me, like underneath was a profound terror of being special and wanted and famous. And I don't know if that if you have that at all.
3 (1h 12m 5s):
No, I think that, that was absolutely true. I think that, but I think that, that the, I think that fear of success also had a social aspect for me. Like, I didn't know where I fit in with the, the world as a whole. And, and especially like in my friend group. And I mean, because like my whole class was like, by the time I got there in January, like there were like 15 of us, holy shit.
1 (1h 12m 37s):
In LA,
3 (1h 12m 40s):
There were so many people. And
1 (1h 12m 46s):
Yeah, I got
3 (1h 12m 46s):
There in Jen. Yeah. I got there in January instead of June. And so literally it was six months, but, but yeah, and then it was, and then it was having a good time because success would have taken work and self-confidence that I didn't want to work on.
1 (1h 13m 9s):
So what did you end up doing? What being in your
3 (1h 13m 13s):
So I, I, I worked at the stinking Rose A. Little bit, but then I became, oddly enough, I worked at Bloomingdale's century, city, and somebody from the cosmetics department adopted me and I became a makeup artist. So like that I spent 10 years in cosmetics, more than that 12 years. And, and then doing theater on the side and writing on the side and like auditioning here and there getting an agent like then not committing to doing anything about it.
3 (1h 13m 55s):
And then losing set agent and then getting another one
1 (1h 13m 58s):
Is your thought of acting all done now? Or where are you at with it?
3 (1h 14m 2s):
Acting comes back to me whenever I need it kind of, I mean, when I separated from my husband and moved to Chicago, I a second city class and it fixed me, do you know what I mean? Like, it, like, it is like a SAB that I can always go to. I'm a writer now, but like, and I think that as you have posited a million times, why was I acting? But like, I think that writing is hard and acting is connection and ensemble, which makes, gets my extrovert all soothe. Sure. So
1 (1h 14m 43s):
Can I just pause and say, I know that you, you say, why was I acting? But just fascinated by having external people saying you're good, right? Because you came to LA, you did your monologues and people were like, you're fucking good. I want to meet with you and help you become an actor. But thinking that it wasn't, I guess I'm just wondering, like what didn't work for you about acting?
3 (1h 15m 7s):
Definitely. I just thought that it was going to be served on a plan.
1 (1h 15m 11s):
Oh, I can totally agree. Okay. I get, I understand that.
3 (1h 15m 16s):
I thought maybe I would show up and there was no work, right? Like, like that, all of a sudden, like it would just, somebody would call somebody and then I would get the phone call and like, and I'm like, that's, that is purely. Oh, but I like, I I'm one of those, I forget that you have to do make an effort, right. Sometimes. And I've had to learn that over. Especially in the last 10 years, I would say like, what do you want to do? You know, you have to make an effort to do it
1 (1h 15m 59s):
As the parent of two Leo children. I'm deeply frightened of what you've just told me. No,
3 (1h 16m 3s):
But is it true? I
1 (1h 16m 5s):
Mean, my God, okay, well this is giving me, okay, maybe this is why I'm having this problem. But I was going to say, it's also just, this is not a, I don't mean this as an insult, but it's also kind of an immaturity thing that we expected. We talked to so many people who say they had meetings and then the people would say, when are you moving to LA? And they'd say, when I have a reason to move to LA and then they'd say, okay, well, call us when you, when you, when you get here. And, and that so many people didn't know that you sh that what you should've said was I'm moving tomorrow.
3 (1h 16m 49s):
I'm selling my futon because we had nothing. Why we're moving now is a pain in the butt. Like,
1 (1h 16m 57s):
I mean, I, you know what, it's not that I, I I'm like theater schools evil, but I think it would have been really it'll be, would have behooved us to have someone say, Hey, here's the languaging because it's a really, it's a dance. It's a dating thing. If someone says, we love your work. When are you moving from Chicago? If you want to be a professional actor, you say, I move next week. Please start sending me out. Great. But we didn't know that. And like I was saying at Shakespeare and company, Carrie Grant's daughter, Jennifer Grant told me, I love your work. I would like you to meet my agent. You know what I told her, I'm not interested in meeting your agent because I do theater in Chicago.
1 (1h 17m 39s):
Now that is what I literally said to this woman who looked at me. She was a seasoned LA actress, her mom's Diane Cannon, and looked at me and said, okay. And walked away, what the fuck is wrong with me?
3 (1h 17m 55s):
Alicia Silverstone was in my, was in my intensive and was like, you can stay with me in LA any time.
1 (1h 18m 4s):
Right. I know. Look, I, I, I know we just didn't, we didn't get it, man. We didn't get it. And look, I don't know if you believe things happen for a reason, but you know, it, it may be, we would have, I would have overdosed on Carrie grant daughter's couch. I don't know. I don't know,
3 (1h 18m 25s):
But really, but really I like the amount of that. Can't be true also. Like, well, that can't be true, but again, and I think that the theater school set us up for, for general auditions for like theaters in Chicago. That's it like, th like in terms of, in terms of like training us to do anything outside of conservatory,
1 (1h 19m 5s):
We had, no, we, we, we really were, were behind the ball. Right. Like,
3 (1h 19m 10s):
But I worked in Jane's office. I knew what casting even looked like. Yeah. Yeah. Like she figured out that I knew how to do computers. Well, and so I was like redoing some stuff on computers and like teaching people how to like, like do stuff. Yeah. And like, this was in the dark age. And, and, and so I knew how casting works. Like, and even that, and I like, and I met with like the head of, of CBS blahdeblah in LA. And I was like, oh, I worked for, I worked for Jane sometimes.
3 (1h 19m 51s):
And she was like, you need to stop. Otherwise you'll be a casting agent. And meaning
1 (1h 19m 57s):
Like, that's all people will see you
3 (1h 19m 59s):
As, or what that's. But no, it just that like, then you're not an actor anymore. Like if you go to the casting thing, so I stopped working for Jane, but didn't act like,
1 (1h 20m 12s):
Right, look, you, you, it sounds like the parts of what, like I'm hearing, it's like, we have these parts of ourselves. Right. And you just hadn't like braided them together. So there was like the part that wanted to be an actor. And there was a part that didn't want to do the work. And there was a part that, that was really committed, but didn't look, you just didn't figure it out. You just hadn't figured it out.
3 (1h 20m 34s):
And we were, and also like, I, I was 21 when I graduated college. Like, I like, I, who am I? I was still just this pile of whatever. Right. So like, I, I don't, I think it's hilarious. I don't like, I don't sit up at night. Like, oh God, what have I done? But it is, but it is really funny how like, like I just literally waved at things as they passed me by what a great,
1 (1h 21m 10s):
What a great
3 (1h 21m 15s):
Love you too.
1 (1h 21m 16s):
You have to say, you have to tell us your, your version is in the lions.
3 (1h 21m 23s):
Okay. So this was, this was the craziest thing that had ever, and maybe to this day has ever happened to me. I saw my roommate was Chris Freberg, who was the stage manager of Andrew police in the lion. Okay. And, and Chris and I had like, had been best pals. So I got, I was in on a lot of like the tech side of things because of Chris, like, you know, I got to be like the, the, the person that hands out the trophies at, at the gala, things like that, because I was friends with all those people. And so, so I'm asleep and Chris blows into my room and is like, get on the phone.
3 (1h 22m 11s):
And I'm like, I don't where I don't even know Don is on the phone. And he goes, you're in, Andrew is in Elian today. And I'm like, no, I'm that? Oh, no, no. I don't think that's a great idea at all. And he's like, Stephanie is sick. You ha you have to, you you're playing the role.
1 (1h 22m 27s):
It's the last
3 (1h 22m 28s):
Show. It's the last show. It's the last show
1 (1h 22m 31s):
You literally had. Way, way I have this, I have this, you woke up out of asleep into the actor's nightmare.
3 (1h 22m 42s):
Yeah. We don't know the lines, Chris. Chris is like, I will be in your ear. I've never used it. I've never used a headset before in my life. I I'm like, okay, well, Chris is in my ear. I will figure this out. Like she throws the script on my bed and she's just like, start looking. And I'm like, I don't think that this is a great, but also I'm so flattered. Like my ego is on PI light. And so I'm like, okay. And Dawn is asking me personally to, okay, this can only go wrong.
3 (1h 23m 25s):
Right.
1 (1h 23m 26s):
So right. I have to say
3 (1h 23m 28s):
No, because it was the most. So I get out of bed. I look, the script is huge. It was like an hour and 20 minutes. Like it was not a short play. And luckily I was attached to someone for most of the show. Literally we
1 (1h 23m 49s):
Were handcuffed together
3 (1h 23m 52s):
On the ship. I mean, it's so I, I, I get out of bed. I, Chris and I get in the car, like immediately to go to the theater. Cause I'm going to get on the set and I'm going to like walk and Don is going to meet me there and he's going to walk me through. And as soon as the cast arrives, everybody's going to walk me through. And so, because, so everybody got a call I think, to come early. And also Stephanie is like, not my size. Like she's, she is like five foot 11.
3 (1h 24m 33s):
And like, so they they're taking huge clips and clipping me into this costume and around this headset that, so what was his name? What was, what was Andrew glazes name? He was a real jerk. He doesn't shock me. He was downstairs. We went downstairs into the lower lobby to run lines and he was like, I don't even know why we're doing this. I think we should cancel the show. You can't even keep up. You don't even know the lines. Like he, like, he ruined me and I was like, oh, I can't cry right now.
3 (1h 25m 21s):
Okay. So then Chris and I were practicing with the headset, even in the car. And what we figured out is that I could get, I could learn half the line. Like I would hear half the line and then I would have to start speaking. So the second half of the line was always going to be a little up in the air because it takes like years of practice to get the newscast, listen, understand. And then
1 (1h 25m 48s):
Yeah, people go to school for pate, teleprompter, ear prompter.
3 (1h 25m 54s):
Yeah. And so like, let's be, let's be clear. I'm not much of a listener. So I'm like, like it's all a blur. Everybody's super helpful. Pat Patrick Belton was in it, right? Yes. He was one
1 (1h 26m 11s):
Of the soldiers.
3 (1h 26m 13s):
Yeah. Cause he kept on going. You're good. Like I, like I said, there's all these like, like people and, and Don is basically like dope. Like he tells everybody that, that, that to come together basically like, and says, says, we're just going to do this show. And like, and it's ed, Kate is here to hold the place, but we're going to do the show. Nice. And I'm like, ACEs, that sounds like a deal to me. And we, and I mean, like, it was this, this the most invigorating, terrifying hour and a half of my life, somebody said later, I don't even remember the princess was just real stupid.
1 (1h 27m 13s):
That's right. They said that a kid said at the talk back, I was so dumb and it was,
3 (1h 27m 26s):
I'm like, perfect. Because I smiled a lot.
1 (1h 27m 30s):
I was very
3 (1h 27m 31s):
Funny. Remember I messed up the amount of the balloons or whatever. I don't know.
1 (1h 27m 39s):
I just remember you really being a fucking trooper. Like you said, man, like up blocking
3 (1h 27m 46s):
The amount of errors, dead attire seen when we are like lashed to the math of a shift, you did the both wines. You did, you might be thinking blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, my response would be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you might say like, you did both lines
1 (1h 28m 8s):
So much fun. Like I just, I just was like, okay, it's the last show? What? Let's just go for it. I had a blast. It's also bear heads involved, you know, like there's
3 (1h 28m 19s):
1200 kids of hacks. It
1 (1h 28m 20s):
Was a full
3 (1h 28m 22s):
Packed, packed.
1 (1h 28m 27s):
I thought it went really well. I just thought you did a really good job. I was like, this is like a Saturday night live is what it is like.
3 (1h 28m 34s):
I mean, thank God you were there. Like honestly, like what? I don't know what would have happened. And the second half of every line was like, don't
1 (1h 28m 47s):
Like, Yeah. And so it ends up being such an interesting, like really metaphor for the launch from theater school, into professional life. Because you know, at some point it's the training part is over and it's pushing you out on stage and saying, you, you just have to do it. And you know, and you, and, and you know, for awhile, I thought it was unfair of John to not cancel. But I understand a little bit more now about why he didn't a there's 1200 kids coming be it's the final performance.
1 (1h 29m 28s):
And that's apparently that's when all the faculty came to watch it and see like the show must go on. Everybody knows that you, you you've, you've got to, to go forward. And it turns out to have been in some ways, probably a really important exercise for everybody who was involved. Yeah. And I really think it showed for me, it showed you that he trusted you. Right. And then you could deal with adversity and do hard things and do it really well. And also, yeah, you just, you just went for it.
3 (1h 30m 7s):
Well, and I think that, that there is that like, there's that mental block where you've got this huge wall in front of you and like, and you, and you say, I'm not going to consider how to climate, I'm going to blast through it. And I never knew that I had that power to, to go through something terrifying and like, and do it anyway. And I didn't know that I was capable of that. And so that was a huge, huge deal for me.
3 (1h 30m 48s):
And, and I think that that is that, that is something that comes back in my, like in my life personally in my like, like just do it and we'll see how it goes.
1 (1h 31m 11s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.