1 00:00:01,046 --> 00:00:03,067 Welcome back to Raising Men. 2 00:00:03,067 --> 00:00:05,078 I'm your host, Shawn Dawson. 3 00:00:05,078 --> 00:00:12,052 You know, I started this journey with kind of a single uncomfortable truth. 4 00:00:13,473 --> 00:00:17,615 Our sons aren't just watching us, they're becoming us. 5 00:00:18,155 --> 00:00:22,878 That is generally the theme of today's Q &A session. 6 00:00:22,938 --> 00:00:24,219 We've got two questions. 7 00:00:24,219 --> 00:00:30,732 One is from a dad who feels like his old school playbook is out of date. 8 00:00:31,042 --> 00:00:35,753 And the other is about a phenomenon we've all probably seen. 9 00:00:35,753 --> 00:00:48,112 A kid who is just soulful and an emotional genius at home, but turns into a silent statue the moment he hits the playground. 10 00:00:48,292 --> 00:00:58,028 Now, as always, we're going to dive into the collective wisdom of the incredible guests that we've had on this show, from therapists and... 11 00:00:58,028 --> 00:01:12,742 psychologists to green berets and tech leaders to see how we can update our operating systems and help our boys navigate a world that often asks them to hide who they really 12 00:01:12,742 --> 00:01:13,542 are. 13 00:01:14,181 --> 00:01:21,324 Our first question comes from a listener who identifies as an older dad. 14 00:01:21,324 --> 00:01:24,825 That uh hits home with me, I'll tell you that. 15 00:01:25,025 --> 00:01:27,636 He writes, I feel like the world 16 00:01:27,636 --> 00:01:32,529 is moving too fast for my old school advice. 17 00:01:32,529 --> 00:01:38,792 I was raised in a strict suck it up household, but that doesn't seem to work on my son. 18 00:01:38,792 --> 00:01:42,674 My efforts to toughen him up seem to make him even more fragile. 19 00:01:42,674 --> 00:01:45,095 Am I thinking about this the right way? 20 00:01:45,856 --> 00:01:49,348 So I hear the humility in that question. 21 00:01:49,348 --> 00:01:52,780 And by the way, I feel this greatly as well. 22 00:01:52,780 --> 00:01:57,032 I kind of had a similar experience to you growing up. 23 00:01:57,922 --> 00:02:05,367 We often fall into the trap of parenting on autopilot, just doing what feels right. 24 00:02:05,367 --> 00:02:12,892 And a lot of the times, what feels right are the grooves that have been worn into our brain based on how we were brought up. 25 00:02:13,173 --> 00:02:18,516 So we essentially repeat the patterns that we inherited. 26 00:02:18,576 --> 00:02:25,441 But as my guest, Damien Gomes, who builds AI systems for a living, he put it really well. 27 00:02:25,441 --> 00:02:27,234 He says, we're not... 28 00:02:27,234 --> 00:02:34,116 building an automation, we're helping our sons find their own operating systems for life. 29 00:02:34,556 --> 00:02:40,558 And one of the core metaphors that I like to use on this show is the two brain metaphor. 30 00:02:40,558 --> 00:02:46,879 I often talk about the Conan the barbarian brain and the Sherlock Holmes brain. 31 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:50,000 Now, the Conan brain is the amygdala. 32 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:57,410 It's survival driven, it's reactive, and it's kind of limited to 33 00:02:57,410 --> 00:03:05,455 just emotional responses, mostly being one acceptable male emotion, which is anger. 34 00:03:05,936 --> 00:03:09,098 The Sherlock brain is the prefrontal cortex. 35 00:03:09,098 --> 00:03:19,585 It's the logical side, it's observant, it responds to things as opposed to reacts to things, and it's capable of empathy. 36 00:03:19,906 --> 00:03:20,316 Dr. 37 00:03:20,316 --> 00:03:26,170 Gloria Vanderhorst pointed out that while the Conan model was 38 00:03:26,418 --> 00:03:34,184 once adapted for survival, it is often maladaptive in the modern world. 39 00:03:34,184 --> 00:03:49,514 And so if we only teach our sons to be aggressive and brave while cutting off fear, we make intimate relationships much more difficult, maybe impossible for them later in life. 40 00:03:49,774 --> 00:03:55,628 So updating your OS means moving from a system 41 00:03:55,885 --> 00:03:59,778 of control to a system of connection. 42 00:04:00,939 --> 00:04:04,532 Updating your operating system doesn't mean throwing away your values. 43 00:04:04,532 --> 00:04:09,305 It means redefining what these things look like, like strength. 44 00:04:09,305 --> 00:04:18,072 Christopher Veal, a Marine veteran, shared that true manhood isn't about the armor or the walls we build. 45 00:04:18,072 --> 00:04:22,176 And he argues that vulnerability is actually a form of leadership. 46 00:04:22,176 --> 00:04:25,918 That when you admit mistakes or show emotion, 47 00:04:25,922 --> 00:04:27,823 You're not weakening your position. 48 00:04:27,823 --> 00:04:32,965 You're building a drawbridge of trust for your son. 49 00:04:33,445 --> 00:04:42,088 Simon Rinne, who grew up in that suck it up culture of the 80s and 90s like I did, emphasized that the playbook is changing. 50 00:04:42,088 --> 00:04:50,632 He suggests that mindfulness, bringing the subconscious to the conscious, is the ultimate upgrade. 51 00:04:50,892 --> 00:04:55,414 It allows us to pause between a child's behavior 52 00:04:55,478 --> 00:05:07,108 and our reaction allows us to consider that reaction and try to get the best outcome, meaning the outcome that is most aligned with our deeper values. 53 00:05:07,108 --> 00:05:21,460 As Eli Weinstein noted in his work on his transition from dude to dad, we have to unlearn the silence of past generations to build new patterns of emotional strength. 54 00:05:21,741 --> 00:05:23,470 Now, dad, 55 00:05:23,470 --> 00:05:31,917 Your old school values of hard work and protection and provisions, they're still vital. 56 00:05:31,917 --> 00:05:43,807 They're really, really, really good, especially in this kind of modern world where the values are kind of crumbling or the institutions that used to instill those values are 57 00:05:43,807 --> 00:05:44,828 crumbling. 58 00:05:45,289 --> 00:05:50,253 But the update you should think about is emotional literacy. 59 00:05:50,253 --> 00:05:51,865 uh Johnny Miller. 60 00:05:51,865 --> 00:06:00,497 taught us that our nervous system is the upstream lens through which we experience our family. 61 00:06:00,658 --> 00:06:10,262 So if you can regulate yourself before you relate to them, you're already running the most advanced software that you probably can. 62 00:06:11,082 --> 00:06:18,265 Our second question is, my kid is emotionally brilliant at home. 63 00:06:18,425 --> 00:06:22,056 He's kind, he's expressive, and he's deep. 64 00:06:22,712 --> 00:06:27,366 But the second we're around other people or at school, he shuts down. 65 00:06:27,366 --> 00:06:29,547 How do we help him navigate this? 66 00:06:30,369 --> 00:06:31,169 Now, Dr. 67 00:06:31,169 --> 00:06:34,662 Gloria Vanderhorst had some good insights on this too, I think. 68 00:06:34,662 --> 00:06:41,238 She talked about something that she calls the masculine ritual of safety. 69 00:06:41,238 --> 00:06:51,786 And it goes to kind of a central hypothesis that I'm working on right now, which is that a lot of the things that 70 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:56,453 I think we believe that men don't do, right? 71 00:06:56,453 --> 00:06:58,474 Men aren't expressive. 72 00:06:58,474 --> 00:07:00,535 Men don't wanna talk about things. 73 00:07:00,535 --> 00:07:04,097 Men wanna kinda be on their own and all of that. 74 00:07:04,097 --> 00:07:06,758 Those things aren't true. 75 00:07:06,859 --> 00:07:13,963 But what is true is that men don't feel safe doing those things and so they don't happen. 76 00:07:14,823 --> 00:07:15,274 Dr. 77 00:07:15,274 --> 00:07:19,528 VandeHearst explained that unlike women who... 78 00:07:19,528 --> 00:07:33,250 often dive directly into emotional sharing, men and boys often require a ritual or some kind of process or posturing before they can feel safe. 79 00:07:33,250 --> 00:07:43,378 They feel the need to establish their status or toughness in the room before they can bring their real worries into the light. 80 00:07:43,398 --> 00:07:47,921 So your son, when he's coming in and not 81 00:07:48,085 --> 00:08:03,995 engaging the way he is when he's feeling safe at home, he's got a survival mechanism reading a room that he perceives as potentially judgmental and he doesn't want to step out 82 00:08:03,995 --> 00:08:04,986 of line. 83 00:08:04,986 --> 00:08:07,468 In fact, research shared by Dr. 84 00:08:07,468 --> 00:08:15,913 Vanderhorst suggests that infant boys are actually born with a broader range of emotional expression than girls are. 85 00:08:17,218 --> 00:08:31,402 Because society and oftentimes even well-meaning caregivers, including us, unintentionally discourage intense reactions in boys. 86 00:08:31,582 --> 00:08:38,414 And so our boys learn to narrow the room and limit their expressions for safety. 87 00:08:38,414 --> 00:08:42,145 And that is kind of extinguishing their fire. 88 00:08:42,505 --> 00:08:45,076 So when we see our boys shutting down, 89 00:08:45,770 --> 00:08:57,357 our instinct might be to push them to be ourselves, almost shaming them into not being so shy. 90 00:08:57,898 --> 00:09:00,580 And we have to be careful not to do that. 91 00:09:00,580 --> 00:09:05,684 We need to not shame them for their protective shell. 92 00:09:05,684 --> 00:09:11,027 I have a theory that shame is never a good idea. 93 00:09:11,027 --> 00:09:15,618 And I'm not sure whether that's 100 % true. 94 00:09:15,618 --> 00:09:21,401 But certainly in our relationships with our kids, I think it's really overused. 95 00:09:21,841 --> 00:09:28,585 Paul Kix used a beautiful metaphor here, I think, which he called it the Brooklyn Bridge. 96 00:09:28,645 --> 00:09:33,888 He explained that vulnerability is like the tensile strength of a bridge. 97 00:09:33,888 --> 00:09:39,711 It's the ability to flex and sway under pressure without breaking. 98 00:09:39,711 --> 00:09:45,314 If a bridge is too rigid, it becomes brittle and it snaps. 99 00:09:45,465 --> 00:09:58,920 Ken Mossman, who works on dismantling the lone wolf myth, points out that boys often equate vulnerability with weakness because that's what they see modeled from us. 100 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:07,104 If they see us hiding our cards in public or not being willing to be vulnerable, they're gonna do the same. 101 00:10:07,104 --> 00:10:13,726 So, how do we help them bridge the gap between their private brilliance and their public persona? 102 00:10:13,964 --> 00:10:15,974 How do we do it in the moment? 103 00:10:17,115 --> 00:10:20,856 The first uh nugget that I might see comes from Dr. 104 00:10:20,856 --> 00:10:22,936 Michelle Watson Canfield. 105 00:10:23,077 --> 00:10:26,557 And that's about connection before correction. 106 00:10:26,718 --> 00:10:30,679 We talked about, in that episode, we talked about the castle metaphor. 107 00:10:30,959 --> 00:10:37,101 Heart level connection is what opens the drawbridge into the inner walls of the castle. 108 00:10:37,101 --> 00:10:42,762 So if you try to correct his public posturing without that connection, 109 00:10:43,032 --> 00:10:44,663 He'll just pull the bridge up tighter. 110 00:10:44,663 --> 00:10:51,727 So, you know, get down to his level, look him in the eye and say, man, it seems like you're feeling pretty shy right now. 111 00:10:51,727 --> 00:10:52,928 That's understandable. 112 00:10:52,928 --> 00:10:54,949 I feel shy often as well. 113 00:10:54,949 --> 00:11:00,252 What do you think we could do to feel more outgoing or safe or like you are at home? 114 00:11:00,252 --> 00:11:04,794 Like remember when you sang that song in front of your aunts and uncles or whatever. 115 00:11:05,114 --> 00:11:06,805 You can also model the redo. 116 00:11:06,805 --> 00:11:11,628 If you find yourself posturing, maybe you were aggressive in traffic or you... 117 00:11:11,628 --> 00:11:16,921 You shut down during a social gathering and started browsing your phone or something like that. 118 00:11:17,021 --> 00:11:18,762 Talk to him about it later. 119 00:11:19,182 --> 00:11:24,505 Simon Rinne and Ryan North both emphasize the power of the repair. 120 00:11:24,526 --> 00:11:25,996 It's such a powerful thing. 121 00:11:25,996 --> 00:11:28,968 Say, hey, I noticed I was acting out a bit. 122 00:11:29,068 --> 00:11:33,310 And I was acting tough earlier, but I was feeling nervous. 123 00:11:33,351 --> 00:11:35,302 And this is how I dealt with that. 124 00:11:35,302 --> 00:11:39,784 If he sees you struggling with those same sorts of things, he'll be able to address that later. 125 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:42,727 And you also need to think about addressing the root need. 126 00:11:42,727 --> 00:11:43,168 Dr. 127 00:11:43,168 --> 00:11:52,312 Van Der Hor suggests that many of the behavioral masks are actually a cry for belonging. 128 00:11:52,453 --> 00:11:54,954 He's acting a certain way in public. 129 00:11:54,954 --> 00:11:58,776 He's likely trying to figure out where he fits. 130 00:11:58,956 --> 00:12:09,972 So maybe we can help him reframe his internal emotional brilliance as the secret strength rather than something that he's afraid to show people. 131 00:12:11,758 --> 00:12:21,591 But as we wrap up this Q &A, I want to leave you with one operating principle that has come up time and time again over a lot of episodes. 132 00:12:21,591 --> 00:12:24,081 It comes from many of our guests. 133 00:12:24,101 --> 00:12:28,363 But Michelle Watson Canfield said it really, really clearly. 134 00:12:28,363 --> 00:12:33,784 She says, never underestimate the power of your presence. 135 00:12:33,964 --> 00:12:37,575 You don't have to have the perfect updated OS today. 136 00:12:37,575 --> 00:12:40,876 You don't have to know exactly what to do. 137 00:12:40,888 --> 00:12:47,380 to stop the posturing, you just have to be willing to show up and be present. 138 00:12:47,380 --> 00:12:53,061 And that doesn't just mean physical presence, that means intellectual and emotional presence as well. 139 00:12:53,602 --> 00:12:57,843 Fatherhood isn't a destination, it's a constant process. 140 00:12:57,843 --> 00:13:02,785 It's about trying and failing and having the courage to try again. 141 00:13:02,785 --> 00:13:07,986 Remember my principle that excellence is failure. 142 00:13:08,846 --> 00:13:16,928 If you wanna dive deeper into any of these concepts, I highly recommend checking out the full episodes with any of the people that we mentioned here. 143 00:13:16,928 --> 00:13:28,271 You can find links to all of that and links to their work in the show notes and other resources at Raising.Men. 144 00:13:28,391 --> 00:13:31,612 Until next time, keep it up, man. 145 00:13:31,612 --> 00:13:38,082 Keep doing the work, face what you're avoiding, stay curious, and remember that the man 146 00:13:38,082 --> 00:13:41,986 that you are is the man that he will be. 147 00:13:42,307 --> 00:13:43,868 I'm Shawn Dawson. 148 00:13:43,868 --> 00:13:49,644 This is Raising Men, and you are a great parent.