1 00:00:00,020 --> 00:00:03,120 Josh: If you're a fan of Apple products, this is an incredible week. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,620 Josh: And even if you're not, chances are something that was just announced in the 3 00:00:06,620 --> 00:00:08,420 Josh: last three days is for you. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,580 Josh: Apple just announced over five products this week. But there is a headline within 5 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:14,680 Josh: this that everyone's missing. 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,260 Josh: I think a lot of the headlines point to the fact that prices now start at $600, 7 00:00:18,860 --> 00:00:23,460 Josh: that the specs are now really high, that you can run OpenClaw on a laptop from 8 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:27,420 Josh: anywhere in the world at a pretty high rate of performance with models that 9 00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:30,100 Josh: actually run locally on the device. These are all very cool things. 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,760 Josh: But one of the things that people are missing is the AI angle to all of these 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,360 Josh: releases and how Apple is quietly becoming one of the biggest players in the 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,920 Josh: AI space, even though they haven't actually spent any money on building AI models 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,040 Josh: or scaling their infrastructure. 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,660 Ejaaz: This is probably the most bullish I've been on Apple in the AI race. 15 00:00:49,060 --> 00:00:53,180 Ejaaz: And the funniest part is that they've made no mention of an AI device, 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,060 Ejaaz: but that's exactly what they released. You mentioned five devices. 17 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:01,440 Ejaaz: We've got, what's it, a MacBook Pro. There's a new laptop and a specialized chip. 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,580 Ejaaz: I've got my turtleneck on today, Josh, in honor of Steve Jobs. 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:06,160 Josh: I'm going to be Steve Jobs, Sarah. 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,580 Ejaaz: For those of you who are new to our Apple episodes, we have the number one fan 21 00:01:12,580 --> 00:01:14,960 Ejaaz: of Apple on the show. That is Josh. It is his Super Bowl. 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:15,780 Josh: I'm fired up. 23 00:01:15,900 --> 00:01:21,020 Ejaaz: Today, we're going to get into the weeds about why Apple just released the top new AI device. 24 00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:24,300 Josh: Okay, so let's first get into what they actually released. 25 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:27,780 Josh: Because there's quite a few things they released the macbook pro they released 26 00:01:27,780 --> 00:01:32,660 Josh: a macbook air a brand new macbook named the macbook neo which starts at a surprising 27 00:01:32,660 --> 00:01:36,320 Josh: price point of 600 this is important remember that they released the studio 28 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:40,080 Josh: display and studio display xdr pause right there because these studio displays 29 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,020 Josh: are awesome the previous xdr display used to cost 6 000 this 30 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:48,790 Josh: way better specs across the board so i will be trying to purchase 31 00:01:48,790 --> 00:01:51,930 Josh: one of those bad boys and then finally they released the ipad 32 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:54,730 Josh: air and the iphone 17e those two devices 33 00:01:54,730 --> 00:01:59,310 Josh: are also priced at 600 so for the first time there are three entry-level apple 34 00:01:59,310 --> 00:02:03,970 Josh: devices priced at 600 bucks and this is important and this is noteworthy what's 35 00:02:03,970 --> 00:02:08,930 Josh: also important and noteworthy that wasn't mentioned as much is the chip architecture 36 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:13,250 Josh: that lives within these devices particularly the new MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air. 37 00:02:13,350 --> 00:02:17,330 Josh: Now, Apple created their vertically integrated silicon back with the M1 chip, 38 00:02:17,470 --> 00:02:20,430 Josh: the M series chips, and they are now on the fifth iteration. 39 00:02:20,650 --> 00:02:25,550 Josh: But this fifth iteration is pretty amazing. And I think that's the product that 40 00:02:25,550 --> 00:02:30,110 Josh: a lot of people are sleeping on today is not only now do they have the MacBook Neo, 41 00:02:30,470 --> 00:02:34,310 Josh: the iPhone 17e and the iPad Air that are capable of running Apple intelligence 42 00:02:34,310 --> 00:02:38,470 Josh: locally for $600, but now they have these chips that are capable of running 43 00:02:38,470 --> 00:02:43,110 Josh: actually large language models locally on a MacBook. And this is the first time ever. 44 00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:47,690 Ejaaz: I think this is the most excited I've been about what's inside an Apple product 45 00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:49,190 Ejaaz: versus what's actually outside. 46 00:02:49,370 --> 00:02:52,450 Ejaaz: I'm usually a display guy. I'm usually an iOS app guy. I'm like, 47 00:02:52,590 --> 00:02:53,710 Ejaaz: wow, this experience is amazing. 48 00:02:53,870 --> 00:02:57,950 Ejaaz: But these chips are actually insane. So let me give you the rundown of the headlines. 49 00:02:58,130 --> 00:03:00,230 Ejaaz: The AI compute processing power 50 00:03:00,230 --> 00:03:06,170 Ejaaz: of an M5 chip is around 4x larger than the previous generation of M4. 51 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:09,810 Ejaaz: It's 8x larger than the M1, so the first in this entire series. 52 00:03:09,810 --> 00:03:15,510 Ejaaz: Now you can do a bunch of AI prompts, toolings, apps, and system integrations 53 00:03:15,510 --> 00:03:19,010 Ejaaz: on your laptop, and it just feels buttery smooth. 54 00:03:19,170 --> 00:03:23,810 Ejaaz: In fact, it's just super quick. And the reason why this makes me really excited 55 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:30,670 Ejaaz: is now you can conceivably host and run AI models on your own local device. 56 00:03:30,670 --> 00:03:33,770 Ejaaz: That means you can give private access to private data without handing that 57 00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:35,450 Ejaaz: over to the likes of OpenAI or Anthropic. 58 00:03:35,650 --> 00:03:40,250 Ejaaz: And you can create a more personalized AI experience without having to hand 59 00:03:40,250 --> 00:03:41,790 Ejaaz: over all that private data. 60 00:03:42,090 --> 00:03:46,370 Ejaaz: But there's a really unique architecture around how these chips are made. 61 00:03:46,910 --> 00:03:49,530 Josh: Before we get into the novel architecture, I just want to double down on something 62 00:03:49,530 --> 00:03:53,830 Josh: you said, Ejaz, which is a testament to how fast this is relative to previous hardware. 63 00:03:54,310 --> 00:03:57,870 Josh: One of the fun facts that I love is that previously, when Meta was releasing 64 00:03:57,870 --> 00:04:01,710 Josh: the LLAMA model, the $70 billion model, that required something like $40,000 65 00:04:01,710 --> 00:04:04,630 Josh: worth of GPU clusters to run 18 months ago. 66 00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:08,970 Josh: And now you can run that on this new M5 chip. And that brings us back to the 67 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:12,130 Josh: novel breakthrough that enables this to happen, which is the post that we're seeing on screen. 68 00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:15,070 Josh: They basically took what other companies were calling 69 00:04:15,070 --> 00:04:18,490 Josh: the chiplet architecture and built their own version of it where you take the 70 00:04:18,490 --> 00:04:22,710 Josh: cpu and you take the gpu two of these things are both very important to processing 71 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:27,570 Josh: ai and they fuse them together into a singular chip and what's interesting about 72 00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:33,330 Josh: this is the cpu part of the chip is the same on every single version of the ship there's the m5 73 00:04:33,780 --> 00:04:36,940 Josh: chip there's the m5 pro and there's the m5 max all of 74 00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:39,700 Josh: those have the exact same cpu the only difference is the amount of 75 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:42,520 Josh: gpus that they bolt on so the pro gets 20 76 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,240 Josh: cores the max gets 40 cores and you could think 77 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,460 Josh: of it like these lego blocks for apple silicon and this 78 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:51,320 Josh: is noteworthy because you can scale this a really 79 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,160 Josh: long way what we know about ai models in general is that 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,980 Josh: gpus are how you scale these things and the cpu is 81 00:04:56,980 --> 00:04:59,920 Josh: kind of used as the orchestration layer so this allows 82 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,560 Josh: these new chips to be modular in the sense that they can just kind of 83 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,440 Josh: stack gpus more and more and more and i assume this is the architecture that 84 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,120 Josh: we're going to see with the ultra chip that's probably coming out later this 85 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,400 Josh: year that's going to be able to run some serious ai models locally on this device 86 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,780 Josh: and it's a really novel way of architecting these m-series chips that apple's 87 00:05:17,780 --> 00:05:19,680 Josh: kind of doubled down on and i think 88 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,220 Josh: we're going to see some really amazing improvements from it what i like 89 00:05:22,220 --> 00:05:27,060 Ejaaz: About the modular approach is um it doesn't seem to come at the cost of the 90 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:31,600 Ejaaz: size of the device like these things are still getting smaller and sleeker and 91 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,300 Ejaaz: thinner every single year and generation. 92 00:05:33,580 --> 00:05:39,700 Ejaaz: So that makes me like, you know, super excited about like how much further we can take these devices. 93 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,100 Ejaaz: The other thing is I watched a really unique video this week where some random 94 00:05:45,100 --> 00:05:50,140 Ejaaz: dude hacked into Apple's, I think it was their M4 chip. I don't know if you saw this, Josh. 95 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:51,700 Josh: This is so cool. 96 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:55,660 Ejaaz: Yeah, they converted it into an AI transformer. 97 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,960 Ejaaz: So what that transformer was capable of doing was training, inferencing, 98 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,480 Ejaaz: or fine-tuning an AI model right there on his Apple MacBook. 99 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:09,820 Ejaaz: And what he found out was the inference and training costs were 80 times more 100 00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:13,220 Ejaaz: efficient than an NVIDIA GPU, an A100. 101 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,280 Ejaaz: Now, that's from some lone person hacking into this. And Apple's obviously, 102 00:06:18,910 --> 00:06:24,030 Ejaaz: not necessarily seen this example, but they're aware that they have the most bleeding edge chips. 103 00:06:24,310 --> 00:06:26,910 Ejaaz: There is no consumer tech hardware 104 00:06:26,910 --> 00:06:31,570 Ejaaz: device that has more premium components making it up than Apple stuff. 105 00:06:31,730 --> 00:06:34,730 Ejaaz: Like their supply chain is just insane. So I'm really excited about that. 106 00:06:34,830 --> 00:06:39,450 Ejaaz: The other thing is what this unlocks is, in my opinion, what I'm calling a new 107 00:06:39,450 --> 00:06:41,050 Ejaaz: era of personalized intelligence. 108 00:06:41,150 --> 00:06:45,990 Ejaaz: I think one of the main challenges that AI is faced today is that we're relying 109 00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:50,270 Ejaaz: too much on model labs, which kind of results in a more fractured experience. 110 00:06:50,270 --> 00:06:54,890 Ejaaz: Like the model doesn't know who we are. It keeps asking us to tell us about ourselves. 111 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:59,830 Ejaaz: And with this new chip architecture, you can have a more persistent AI agent 112 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:02,810 Ejaaz: that understands who you are, that is more useful, that is there right with 113 00:07:02,810 --> 00:07:05,970 Ejaaz: you in the weeds as you're doing stuff on the internet or on your computer. 114 00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:07,350 Ejaaz: And that's really bullish for me. 115 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:11,010 Josh: I can't help but imagine what it would look like if Apple decided to really 116 00:07:11,010 --> 00:07:15,910 Josh: scale the manufacturing production of these chips and turn them on for AI training, 117 00:07:16,090 --> 00:07:19,770 Josh: similar to what Google did with their TPUs, and kind of have their specific 118 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:22,890 Josh: hardware accelerated version of these GPUs. 119 00:07:22,970 --> 00:07:26,270 Josh: I feel like that would be a huge business opportunity, but clearly they are 120 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:28,570 Josh: not taking advantage of this position they're in. 121 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:31,850 Josh: Because previously on an episode a few weeks ago, we spoke about CapEx, 122 00:07:31,930 --> 00:07:35,650 Josh: how much money these companies are spending on scaling AI infrastructure. 123 00:07:35,650 --> 00:07:39,890 Josh: This includes data centers, this includes GPU, powering the data centers, 124 00:07:40,050 --> 00:07:42,450 Josh: all of the employees that are required to make this happen. 125 00:07:42,670 --> 00:07:45,690 Josh: And the numbers were staggeringly large i mean 126 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:48,710 Josh: between what is this amazon google microsoft meta 127 00:07:48,710 --> 00:07:52,010 Josh: we have over 630 billion dollars of spend 128 00:07:52,010 --> 00:07:54,710 Josh: but apple is only at 1.4 which is 129 00:07:54,710 --> 00:07:57,450 Josh: actually down 19 year over year you 130 00:07:57,450 --> 00:08:02,390 Josh: see this little sponge down here it's like so sad and depressing and they're 131 00:08:02,390 --> 00:08:07,210 Josh: spending no money on scaling this and you have to ask like why what is going 132 00:08:07,210 --> 00:08:11,190 Josh: on here um because clearly they're in a position where they can win if they 133 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:13,430 Josh: double down on these things that they're working are working well, 134 00:08:13,570 --> 00:08:14,830 Josh: but they're just not doing it. 135 00:08:14,930 --> 00:08:17,430 Josh: And I wonder if you have any takes on this of what you think... 136 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,200 Josh: Like, what are these other companies doing? And why is Apple not participating? 137 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,780 Ejaaz: So there's an optimist take on this story. And then there's a pessimist take. 138 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:34,360 Ejaaz: The pessimist take is Apple was asleep at the wheel and they were not focused on AI. 139 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Ejaaz: They completely missed that rush. And they fell behind creating one of the leading 140 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:42,440 Ejaaz: intelligence models when they are the most valuable company. 141 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:45,480 Ejaaz: So Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and all these companies that you're seeing on 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,380 Ejaaz: the screen here got way, way ahead. 143 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,620 Ejaaz: Now, the optimist's take is this was all planned because Apple's decision was 144 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:55,260 Ejaaz: never to partake in the AI model race. 145 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,040 Ejaaz: Apple's plan was to own the distribution and operating system layer of AI, 146 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,300 Ejaaz: which is, hint, hint, what they did with cell phones and the App Store and iOS, 147 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,520 Ejaaz: and they're doing exactly the same thing on AI. 148 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,760 Ejaaz: So you could actually look at it as Apple was so smart, not wasting hundreds 149 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,220 Ejaaz: of billions of dollars of their hard-earned cash, and instead pays Google a 150 00:09:16,220 --> 00:09:20,880 Ejaaz: billion dollars to rent Gemini and then build an ecosystem right on top of it. 151 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:22,240 Ejaaz: It's kind of genius if you think about it. 152 00:09:22,460 --> 00:09:26,180 Josh: This is like the ghost of Steve Jobs hand, like looking over the company. 153 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:29,500 Josh: And actually, if you scroll up on this post a little bit, it's kind of me making 154 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:34,740 Josh: fun of Apple and how they've kind of accidentally stumbled upon this miracle. 155 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:41,940 Josh: And I would believe the optimist case, if in fact they didn't totally fumble WWDC two years ago, 156 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,240 Josh: there was a very clear intention to deploy Apple intelligence throughout the 157 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,260 Josh: suite of hardware and to place themselves into this AI race, 158 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:52,760 Josh: it just failed completely and catastrophically. 159 00:09:52,940 --> 00:09:56,740 Josh: And had that not have happened, I think I could have believed this optimist 160 00:09:56,740 --> 00:10:01,020 Josh: take where they really are just being slow and calculated. But I think this was an accident. 161 00:10:01,980 --> 00:10:05,520 Josh: Just so happened to create the best hardware in the world. 162 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,740 Josh: And it just so happens that all the AI models need to run on hardware just like this. 163 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,380 Josh: It's kind of like NVIDIA. Like NVIDIA accidentally became the most important 164 00:10:15,380 --> 00:10:17,420 Josh: company in the world. And it required a lot of execution along the way. 165 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:21,280 Josh: And they deserve every bit of that. But they were in a unique position to do so. 166 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,020 Josh: And I haven't seen any signs of Apple doubling down to do so on the software side, at least. 167 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Josh: It's only been on the hardware side. And it's only because this has been the 168 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,280 Josh: trajectory since 2021 when they first launched the M1 chip. But it is interesting. 169 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:36,740 Josh: I mean, if we look at this chart down at the bottom of this post here, 170 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,320 Josh: it shows the increase in CapEx from everyone is going straight vertical and Apple spending none. 171 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:45,000 Josh: And yet the Mac minis are sold out everywhere. 172 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,220 Josh: You cannot buy one because everyone's running OpenClaw on it. 173 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:51,400 Josh: The Mac studios are running local models on everybody's machines. 174 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:53,400 Josh: The new MacBook Pros are incredible. 175 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,380 Josh: They're going to be running models. I mean, there's just everything is sold out. 176 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,120 Josh: Everything is backlogged. They can't make enough hardware to support this. 177 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,160 Josh: And something is happening here. 178 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,500 Josh: The market forces are at play and they are saying, Apple, you are making great 179 00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:08,440 Josh: hardware. Please do more of this. 180 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:14,620 Ejaaz: I was joking with some friends the other day that the only real threat to NVIDIA's 181 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:21,320 Ejaaz: hardware mode is Apple with their Mac minis and with their laptops because they're the second largest, 182 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,960 Ejaaz: most valuable company that comes 183 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,260 Ejaaz: behind them for a reason because they're selling out all their hardware. 184 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,600 Ejaaz: People can't get enough of it, but consumers in particular use it to run their AI models. 185 00:11:30,270 --> 00:11:34,210 Ejaaz: On the software side of things, listen, it's not clear just yet, 186 00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:37,350 Ejaaz: but I do think Apple gets ahead for two main reasons. 187 00:11:37,490 --> 00:11:41,870 Ejaaz: Number one, they have like the largest distribution ever. I believe it's 2.5 188 00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:46,650 Ejaaz: to 3 billion active Apple devices currently in the world right now. It's insane, right? 189 00:11:46,910 --> 00:11:52,670 Ejaaz: So if they wanted to, they could switch on bleeding edge AI via Google's Gemini 190 00:11:52,670 --> 00:11:58,030 Ejaaz: or their own fine-tuned version of that model to 2.5 to 3 billion people tomorrow, right? 191 00:11:58,270 --> 00:12:03,710 Ejaaz: So they instantly become the most or the largest consumer moat for AI immediately. 192 00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:04,890 Ejaaz: But they're taking their time. 193 00:12:05,150 --> 00:12:09,250 Ejaaz: I believe they're building something much more curated and better than what we have today. 194 00:12:09,730 --> 00:12:12,710 Ejaaz: Now, the pessimists will say, oh, they're slow. They've been slacking. 195 00:12:12,910 --> 00:12:16,390 Ejaaz: And I would probably agree with you. But hey, they're the second most valuable 196 00:12:16,390 --> 00:12:19,850 Ejaaz: company in the world. They can take that time to wait and build something interesting. 197 00:12:20,110 --> 00:12:23,090 Ejaaz: That being said, all these releases are super cool, Josh. 198 00:12:23,390 --> 00:12:25,570 Ejaaz: But there's one thing that's nagging me at the back of my head, 199 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:29,450 Ejaaz: which is Siri AI has been delayed again. 200 00:12:30,210 --> 00:12:32,450 Ejaaz: I do not know when I'm going to get this, but it's already been delayed, 201 00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:33,910 Ejaaz: what, a year and a half at this point. 202 00:12:34,170 --> 00:12:37,630 Ejaaz: This is, of course, Apple's personal AI assistant, which is probably going to 203 00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:41,930 Ejaaz: be the conduit and the main spokesman for all the Apple software stuff. 204 00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:45,610 Ejaaz: So until I see that released, I'm not going to believe that it's actually happening. 205 00:12:46,290 --> 00:12:49,870 Josh: Yeah, I mean, the software part, again, they just fumbled so hard. 206 00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:52,770 Josh: There's no denying it and there's no signs that they are going to recover. 207 00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:55,750 Josh: I think the most bullish thing they've done recently in terms of software is 208 00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:58,750 Josh: just license out their ai to gemini clearly google 209 00:12:58,750 --> 00:13:01,570 Josh: can do an amazing job and for a billion 210 00:13:01,570 --> 00:13:04,190 Josh: dollars a year apple is getting access to gemini models and they're going 211 00:13:04,190 --> 00:13:07,370 Josh: to integrate locally into perhaps not locally but they'll integrate them into 212 00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:13,050 Josh: all these mobile devices and that takes us to this new weird place where like 213 00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:17,810 Josh: there is a potential to shift the current market forces based on this distribution 214 00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:21,590 Josh: that you just mentioned that google that apple has of multiple billions of products 215 00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:23,310 Josh: already in people's hands that are AI capable. 216 00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:27,550 Josh: And this is noteworthy. I mean, what we're seeing with OpenClaw in particular, 217 00:13:27,830 --> 00:13:33,650 Josh: it kind of set the stage for how strong of a preference people have to running 218 00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:36,630 Josh: these models on actual hardware that they feel that they own. 219 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:40,530 Josh: A lot of people bought OpenClaw not because they needed the compute to run the models. 220 00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:43,390 Josh: That's not true. You could do this on a $5 virtual private server. 221 00:13:43,510 --> 00:13:46,850 Josh: They used it because it connected with the ecosystem that Apple provides. 222 00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:50,410 Josh: They used it because it can query through their iMessages and it could send 223 00:13:50,410 --> 00:13:53,890 Josh: iMessages and it could call and it could FaceTime and it can use the Apple speed of software. 224 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:59,250 Josh: And that is a really big deal. And that gets into this AI edge compute bulk case, 225 00:13:59,390 --> 00:14:07,470 Josh: which is the idea that everyone needs GPT 678910 served from OpenAI's cloud 226 00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:12,210 Josh: servers might not be true for the majority of the users that actually just want 227 00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:16,530 Josh: AI to help them like figure out their grocery store order and summarize their emails for them. 228 00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:20,690 Josh: And there is a limit to the intelligence that the average user 229 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,080 Josh: Actually need access to. And it would seem as if a lot of these current models 230 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,720 Josh: have reached that threshold. 231 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:31,000 Josh: Not everyone needs to go cure cancer or solve novel physics. 232 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,100 Josh: And with that understanding, we're at a moment now where Apple's hardware, 233 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,360 Josh: particularly this new hardware, is able to run all of these models that are 234 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,440 Josh: capable of these average use cases locally on device. 235 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,220 Josh: And that's a lot of users that will be using this. 236 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,260 Josh: And it may actually be like one of the largest bear cases against companies 237 00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:51,620 Josh: like OpenAI, like Anthropic, 238 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,140 Josh: who rely so heavily on customers paying money and using the API fees because 239 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:59,580 Josh: these local models are becoming so highly intelligent, so capable, 240 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Josh: and so small that they could just run on an iPhone. 241 00:15:01,780 --> 00:15:07,380 Ejaaz: Yeah, I actually wrote about this at length in the essay that we just dropped in our Substack. 242 00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:10,040 Ejaaz: If you're not subscribed, definitely go check that out. It's, 243 00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:13,240 Ejaaz: in my opinion, a banger, and it goes through everything that Josh just covered. 244 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:19,540 Ejaaz: My thinking about models has evolved pretty drastically over the last month 245 00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:20,840 Ejaaz: in the light of OpenClaw. 246 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:24,920 Ejaaz: Because what I initially thought was OpenClaw was just a bunch of open source 247 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,880 Ejaaz: tech-heavy developers that were just kind of toying around and messing around 248 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:29,860 Ejaaz: with something quite dangerous. 249 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,440 Ejaaz: And then what I actually learned was that the reason why they were doing it 250 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,800 Ejaaz: was because it led to a better AI experience overall. 251 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,060 Ejaaz: And when you and I have tried out OpenClaw and we have a bunch of episodes that 252 00:15:40,060 --> 00:15:43,120 Ejaaz: demonstrate this, we have just had a much better experience. 253 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:47,120 Ejaaz: Like the AI actually remembers you but can do so many things for you. 254 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,640 Ejaaz: And I think that's where people are eventually going to settle, 255 00:15:49,780 --> 00:15:52,720 Ejaaz: particularly consumers, like, yeah, okay, we can talk to ChatGPT, 256 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,560 Ejaaz: but I want it to now do stuff for that. 257 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,360 Ejaaz: It's much harder to do that if your AI provider is open AI with their own servers 258 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,560 Ejaaz: versus having an AI model locally on your device. 259 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,920 Ejaaz: So I do think there's a larger trend, which is going to be around edge compute 260 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,380 Ejaaz: and local AI devices and local AI models running on your phone and on your laptop, 261 00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:16,920 Ejaaz: which will lead to a more personalized experience. I'm excited to see people take privacy. 262 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,840 Ejaaz: More seriously, at this point, with OpenClaw, some of the worst examples of 263 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,320 Ejaaz: it was the agent would steal your credit card info and spend it on some random 264 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,880 Ejaaz: stuff or would go rogue and burn up all your compute tokens. 265 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,080 Ejaaz: You have more control and access over that if you go through an Apple device 266 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,860 Ejaaz: that might kind of give you a semi-private experience that you don't have to 267 00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:36,900 Ejaaz: expose all that kind of data. 268 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:43,260 Ejaaz: If this trend becomes true, then it completely threatens Anthropic and OpenAI's 269 00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:45,700 Ejaaz: moat, which have relied heavily on subscriptions. 270 00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:51,760 Ejaaz: Why would you pay $200 a month on a Claude subscription? I'm just playing the antagonist here. 271 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:55,760 Ejaaz: If you could get frontier intelligence for a much smaller model that fits on 272 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,200 Ejaaz: your mobile phone device, that's a QN model that got released this week, 273 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,800 Ejaaz: and that can work with all your personalized data. 274 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,140 Ejaaz: Why wouldn't you just do that? It's a no-brainer, and I understand the thesis 275 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:06,980 Ejaaz: behind it. And I think that's what Apple's going after. 276 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:10,920 Josh: Well, now we have to ask the question, are they capable of doing this and who 277 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,620 Josh: is going to get them to this place. 278 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,060 Josh: And to do so, we have to look at the leadership. 279 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Josh: We have to go to the seed suite first. And that is thanks to Polymarket, 280 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,380 Josh: who has prediction markets on who is actually going to be responsible for running 281 00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:26,440 Josh: the ship after Tim Cook leaves. 282 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,820 Josh: So it's been widely rumored that Tim Cook is going to be stepping down from 283 00:17:29,820 --> 00:17:34,440 Josh: Apple to as CEO capacity sometime this year. He's been there for a long time. 284 00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:38,580 Josh: He's had an incredibly successful run, But it seems as if the Apple C-suite 285 00:17:38,580 --> 00:17:40,580 Josh: is kind of grooming the next person. 286 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:44,340 Josh: And according to Polymarket, John Turnness is going to be that guy. 287 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,960 Josh: And this is exciting because John Turnness is the VP of, I believe, 288 00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:50,360 Josh: engineering hardware at Apple. 289 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,820 Josh: He's a hardware guy. He's the person that has helped design, 290 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,600 Josh: develop, and lead these devices. 291 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,900 Josh: And Polymarket has him at, what, over 50% chance of running the company. 292 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:05,640 Josh: If he does actually become CEO, is there a world in which he can push this company 293 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:10,340 Josh: forward in the sense that they can really double down on this edge AI compute thing? 294 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,320 Josh: They could get these models running on all the devices, maybe. 295 00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:16,500 Josh: I think that would be a really fun opportunity to see. 296 00:18:16,860 --> 00:18:20,500 Josh: And we really need a shakeup. Like Apple's been so slow. They've been so boring 297 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:22,700 Josh: for so long that this would make a really big difference. 298 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,520 Josh: And also there's another market that shows the future products that they're 299 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,000 Josh: planning to launch. And there's one that I think surprises a lot of people, 300 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,360 Josh: which is a foldable phone before 2027. 301 00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:36,100 Josh: At an 84% chance. So by September of this year, you will be able to buy a folding 302 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:40,200 Josh: iPhone, which seems a little bizarre. But according to Polymarket, this is true. 303 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,100 Josh: Thank you to Polymarket for supporting and sponsoring this section of the episode. 304 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:48,600 Josh: And yeah, I think it's just a testament as always to how Apple is slow, 305 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,900 Josh: but they are figuring it out. 306 00:18:50,180 --> 00:18:53,860 Josh: And man, if they can get this foldable iPhone that turns into an iPad, 307 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,340 Josh: runs models locally on your phone, it's gonna be pretty cool. 308 00:18:56,820 --> 00:19:00,560 Josh: So feeling bullish on Apple in general, I mean, what do you think this means 309 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,500 Josh: for the valuation of the company, EJAS? 310 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,380 Josh: Like Apple as a stock, is this, are we still being theoretical, 311 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:09,240 Josh: hypothetical, or does this convert to actual revenue dollars? 312 00:19:09,740 --> 00:19:13,740 Ejaaz: I think it eventually converts to revenue dollars, but they're going to need 313 00:19:13,740 --> 00:19:16,500 Ejaaz: to deliver on, well, they're delivered on the hardware side. 314 00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:20,380 Ejaaz: They need to deliver on the software side. And that's typically where Apple 315 00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:24,140 Ejaaz: has really dominated the consumer market. Yes, they built an amazing iPhone, 316 00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:29,590 Ejaaz: But they also killed it with creating the best perfected app that you can use 317 00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:33,750 Ejaaz: on your phone and that entire ecosystem for developers and consumers on either side. 318 00:19:33,910 --> 00:19:36,030 Ejaaz: So they need to pull off the same thing for AI. 319 00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:42,070 Ejaaz: And the challenge that they're going to face is it's not the same as the internet that we know today. 320 00:19:42,270 --> 00:19:46,890 Ejaaz: It's going to be a new operating system. You and I have discussed multiple things on the show before. 321 00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:50,850 Ejaaz: We've discussed perplexity, releasing a new personal computer, 322 00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:55,470 Ejaaz: and then OpenAI, releasing an AI web browser. And all these random products 323 00:19:55,470 --> 00:19:58,490 Ejaaz: that you and I don't really use anymore. 324 00:19:58,670 --> 00:20:02,310 Ejaaz: It's used for very niche things. And what those attempts are getting at is trying 325 00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:06,110 Ejaaz: to rebuild an operating system around this new weird technology that kind of 326 00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:08,230 Ejaaz: feels like magic, but is also kind of dangerous. 327 00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:13,050 Ejaaz: And so Apple is the company that's currently being presented to solve that problem. 328 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:18,010 Ejaaz: My bet is they're going to nail it at least within the next kind of two to three 329 00:20:18,010 --> 00:20:21,570 Ejaaz: years for two reasons. One, they have the largest distribution I was mentioning 330 00:20:21,570 --> 00:20:23,050 Ejaaz: earlier, 3 billion active devices. 331 00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:25,970 Ejaaz: So it's easy for them to kind of turn that on. Their biggest threat actually 332 00:20:25,970 --> 00:20:30,270 Ejaaz: might be Google, but Google doesn't really have the best experience of creating 333 00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:32,850 Ejaaz: consumer hardware, aka Google Glass. 334 00:20:33,050 --> 00:20:35,350 Ejaaz: There's actually a new version of that coming out in a few months time. 335 00:20:35,530 --> 00:20:37,170 Ejaaz: But yeah, I think Apple has the best shot of it. 336 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:41,870 Ejaaz: Valuation wise, I actually think it's up from here. And they're currently valued 337 00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:47,330 Ejaaz: at what, like just under $4 billion or just over $4 trillion. 338 00:20:47,330 --> 00:20:53,250 Ejaaz: Dollars and i think they're going to see their kind of uh nvidia type rise now 339 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:56,930 Ejaaz: um it wouldn't surprise me if they actually compete uh with nvidia for the top 340 00:20:56,930 --> 00:20:59,310 Ejaaz: spot once once consumer ai takes off. 341 00:20:59,310 --> 00:21:03,310 Josh: So in summary there is a lot of cool new hardware that just came down the pipe 342 00:21:03,310 --> 00:21:06,910 Josh: this week there is probably something for everyone and the noteworthy thing 343 00:21:06,910 --> 00:21:11,310 Josh: is this new kind of ai angle that they're taking they have the accessible devices 344 00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:13,930 Josh: starting at six hundred dollars they have the high-end devices like these new 345 00:21:13,930 --> 00:21:15,770 Josh: MacBook Pros that go up to $7,000, $8,000, 346 00:21:15,910 --> 00:21:20,170 Josh: but that are capable of running these really powerful, impressive local models 347 00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:21,590 Josh: on them. And is that going to 348 00:21:22,330 --> 00:21:26,850 Josh: be enough to actually start to detract away from the market shares of these 349 00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:28,970 Josh: other players like OpenAI and Anthropic. We will see. 350 00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:33,790 Josh: We will be monitoring the situation as always, but that is the news as it relates 351 00:21:33,790 --> 00:21:36,730 Josh: to Apple this week. It is a huge release in hardware. 352 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:41,930 Josh: Are they accidentally sleepwalking into success or is this a tactical master plan? 353 00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:45,850 Josh: We don't know. Perhaps the new CEO, John Ternus, will tell us. 354 00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:48,730 Josh: But until then, thank you so much for watching. Like he just mentioned, 355 00:21:48,730 --> 00:21:53,130 Josh: he has a newsletter about this, about local edge inference that is releasing 356 00:21:53,130 --> 00:21:54,550 Josh: as you're watching this episode. 357 00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:57,510 Josh: It's out. So you can find that on our sub stack linked in the description below. 358 00:21:57,970 --> 00:22:01,770 Josh: Another way that you can help us is by sharing this episode with your friends. 359 00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:04,250 Josh: That always goes a long way. Share it with someone who you think will be interested. 360 00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:06,790 Josh: We do this four times a week, 25 minutes. 361 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:09,590 Josh: If you listen to all of them, there's nothing that you will miss in the world 362 00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:14,070 Josh: of AI because our job is to keep you up to date. And thank you so much for staying up to date with us. 363 00:22:14,350 --> 00:22:16,930 Josh: And yeah, we will see you guys on the next episode. 364 00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:31,150 Josh: Hold on let me feed our system prompt we're you are going to record an absolute 365 00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:36,430 Josh: banger of an episode right now and you're going to make no mistakes think hard let 366 00:22:36,430 --> 00:22:42,370 Ejaaz: Me feed my biological llm you're going to absolutely smoke this episode and 367 00:22:42,370 --> 00:22:47,470 Ejaaz: it's going to go even more viral than the previous episode make zero mistakes. 368 00:22:47,470 --> 00:22:54,130 Josh: Let's go this is why we should charge premium all right i know