WEBVTT

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Will the Pixel XI support Graphene OS?

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Is your Firefox install compromised?

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Will Signal allow a way to register

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without a phone number?

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All this and more coming up on This

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Week in Privacy, so stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the Privacy Guides community and

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this week's top stories in data privacy

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and cybersecurity while taking questions

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from viewers like you.

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I am Nate,

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and with me this week after a bit

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of an absence is Jordan.

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How have you been, Jordan?

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Good.

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Just been super busy with video content on

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the back end,

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but really excited to hop back on here

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with you to discuss the latest privacy and

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security news.

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Yeah,

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there is a boatload of stuff happening

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with videos that we will definitely get to

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later on in the episode,

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but it is good to have you back

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for sure.

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Um, I guess with that,

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we'll go ahead and jump right into our

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first story, which is about the new pixel.

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And, uh,

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I believe you're going to be taking that

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one first, Jordan.

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So I'll turn it over to you.

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Yeah, let's dive into that.

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Um,

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so this story here is about Google's new

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pixel, eleven series devices.

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I'm quoting from this.

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Google says the tensor G six delivers up

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to twenty five percent faster browsing

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and fifteen percent faster app loads

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compared to last year's Tensor G-Five.

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The Tensor G-Six is the updated system on

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a chip in the Pixel-Eleven series of

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devices.

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The chip pairs with an upgraded image

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signal processor with a new TPU,

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and Google says it's fifty percent more

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powerful than the previous generation,

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enabling features like a hundred and

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twenty times pro zoom,

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instant night sight on the pro models,

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and this new

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This TPU chip also drives Gemini Nano,

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Google's on-device AI model,

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which the company says now runs with

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higher quality and lower latency.

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But the most important thing that we

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wanted to highlight from this story is the

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Tensor G.

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works alongside a new Titan M three

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security processor built for post quantum

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cryptography,

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which Google describes as protection

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against emerging highly advanced digital

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attacks.

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And the company adds that the Titan M

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three has earned common criteria

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certification at the same level that's

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used for SIM and bank cards.

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The chip also handles quantum safe secure

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boot and runs trusty Google's trusted

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execution environment on all four phones.

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So this is always a thing that happens

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every time Google announces a new device.

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I guess we should dive into the most

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obvious thing and the question that we

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have as this week's episode is,

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Will this support Graphene OS?

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So I guess I'll throw this back over

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to you, Nate,

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and we can kind of discuss this a

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little bit.

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Is this, you know,

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what's the timeline going to look like for

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this?

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Do you think it's something that we can

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expect soon?

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What are the updates that Graphene OS has

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shared so far?

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Yeah, so I guess I'll...

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I guess I'll lead with the answer,

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which is, honestly, we don't know.

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For those who may be just joining us

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or haven't heard, Google last year,

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I think it was, mostly last year,

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made a lot of

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changes to their policies that kind of

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shoot all android developers in the foot

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or at least um android roms like graphene

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calyx lineage which is uh they slowed down

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the number of releases that they're

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publishing for uh the aosp project um

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they've i think they slowed down the

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number of security patches too but i could

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be wrong about that um they uh

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they stopped publishing the pixel device

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tree specifically.

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So basically now they have to like reverse

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engineer all the hardware changes.

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And then on top of it,

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they made a lot of the development closed

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source.

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So it used to be that they did

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all their merge requests and everything

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up,

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or I may be using the wrong term

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there, merge requests,

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but they did all their development stuff

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in the open.

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So people could kind of see like, okay,

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they're working on this,

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they're working on that.

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We could also push back if we're like,

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hey,

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why are you adding this feature that

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sounds sus?

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now instead they're doing it all closed

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and then just every so often they're like

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all right here's an aosp update publicly

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so it's still technically source available

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in open source it's just now we don't

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get to see what they're doing until

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they're done and between all of that uh

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graphene at the time pixel ten was the

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newest one and they were basically like

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look you know we'll support the pixel ten

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but we don't really know what the future

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is going to hold because of all this

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and

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Um,

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they said that they want to keep trying

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to support pixels as much as they can,

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but between that, and there's also,

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it's worth noting,

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there are other hardware changes to the

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pixel, uh, to the pixel XI,

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aside from just like the tensor and the,

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the Titan chip.

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Um,

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the most notable one that I've seen people

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mentioning is they switched the modem.

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It used to be a Samsung Exynos,

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I believe.

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And now it's like a MediaTek something.

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So yeah, it's, I mean,

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even Graphene themselves have basically

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said like, look,

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we're not going to know until we actually

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have a Pixel XI in our hands.

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And then we can like kind of take

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a look at it and see.

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I think you shared,

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if I can go find it,

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you did share in our chat from the

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Graphene forums.

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It was like there when they were keeping

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people updated.

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Yeah, so here it is on screen here.

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I've got the link here.

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If you want to take a look at

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that.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah, so if we look here,

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it's kind of a timeline of the events

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that happened to get this support for the

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Pixel X,

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which I guess we can kind of extrapolate

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somewhat to the Pixel XI.

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So if you don't know,

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the Pixel X was announced on August,

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August, August, August, August, August,

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August, August, August, August, August,

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August, August, August, August, August,

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order and confirm that it supports

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unlocking.

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So, you know,

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at this point it's been not even a

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week yet.

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So we don't really know what the outcome

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of that's going to be.

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If the devices will be unlockable,

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we can assume that it might be,

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but obviously the GrapheneOS team hasn't

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actually gotten the devices yet.

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So if you scroll all the way back

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up to the top, January,

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is when it was considered stable.

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So a couple of months, four months,

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pretty much what we're looking at here for

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the Pixel X.

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So I would not be buying a Pixel

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XI if your immediate need is to run

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Graphene OS because from their previous

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experience doing this,

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it took four months.

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It may take less.

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It may take more.

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We don't really know because like Nate

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said,

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it's all stuff that's like

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not information that we know at this

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point.

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And also like, you know,

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they have to reverse engineer that.

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And one other thing I quickly wanted to

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share as well is GrapheneOS did do a

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post on Twitter and they said,

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the PIX-Eleven hasn't been released yet.

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We aren't going to have an idea about

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how long it will take until after we

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have access to devices and the code.

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We'll post about it on our feed when

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we have information to share.

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No need to ask us for updates since

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we'll make posts about it.

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So that's kind of the current situation,

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unfortunately.

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which is kind of,

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it's good to know that they're going to

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post updates,

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but we don't really have a huge amount

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of information at this point.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And one other thing that's worth noting,

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for those of you who are not following

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us on any of our social media,

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we did actually push out a quick short

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about this whole thing.

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Google, or excuse me, not Google,

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Graphene has that whole...

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their partnership with Motorola now.

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And so that could really play into this

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either way.

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Um,

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It could be that because of that

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partnership,

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they're able to get their hands on certain

00:08:38.914 --> 00:08:40.676
software resources like AOSP.

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Maybe they can get a copy of AOSP

00:08:42.475 --> 00:08:43.936
from Motorola early,

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and that will help them speed up the

00:08:45.355 --> 00:08:45.836
timeline.

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Maybe they're able to take advantage of

00:08:48.657 --> 00:08:49.956
some of their expertise.

00:08:50.057 --> 00:08:50.477
I don't know.

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Or maybe they'll just hit a point where

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they're just like, screw it.

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If Google's going to make it this hard,

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we've got this other manufacturer that

00:08:56.158 --> 00:08:57.298
we're working closely with,

00:08:57.318 --> 00:08:57.658
and we have

00:08:58.058 --> 00:09:00.561
complete insight into the whole process.

00:09:01.642 --> 00:09:02.903
We really, really don't know.

00:09:05.325 --> 00:09:05.904
But yeah,

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I just wanted to make sure that's a

00:09:07.326 --> 00:09:07.846
mention too.

00:09:09.368 --> 00:09:10.708
It's part of the math, I would think,

00:09:10.788 --> 00:09:12.210
but we don't know what part of the

00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:12.450
math.

00:09:13.820 --> 00:09:14.341
Yeah, fortunately,

00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:15.181
I don't think we have to wait too

00:09:15.221 --> 00:09:16.322
long for the pixels to ship.

00:09:16.341 --> 00:09:17.663
They usually the preorder, I think,

00:09:17.683 --> 00:09:19.144
is usually just a couple of weeks before

00:09:19.164 --> 00:09:19.865
they start shipping.

00:09:19.926 --> 00:09:21.187
So hopefully by the end of the month,

00:09:21.206 --> 00:09:22.788
we'll we'll have an update.

00:09:22.827 --> 00:09:23.989
But yeah.

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Yeah, I guess kind of somewhat off topic.

00:09:26.731 --> 00:09:28.432
But what do you personally think of the

00:09:28.452 --> 00:09:28.874
devices?

00:09:28.933 --> 00:09:29.914
Is this something you're going to be

00:09:29.975 --> 00:09:30.595
preordering?

00:09:30.634 --> 00:09:32.356
Are you going to be upgrading this this

00:09:32.417 --> 00:09:32.996
year or no?

00:09:34.375 --> 00:09:36.197
Um, probably.

00:09:36.658 --> 00:09:37.759
So my wife and I both have the

00:09:37.778 --> 00:09:38.779
pixel six a,

00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:41.001
which I think stops getting support in

00:09:41.062 --> 00:09:41.743
July.

00:09:43.004 --> 00:09:44.325
I was looking at the pixel eleven.

00:09:44.345 --> 00:09:45.485
So I'm the kind of person that I

00:09:45.505 --> 00:09:47.628
like to buy the newest one just so

00:09:47.648 --> 00:09:49.110
that way I've got like the longest amount

00:09:49.149 --> 00:09:50.571
of security updates and stuff.

00:09:52.532 --> 00:09:53.692
And then I'll run that into the ground.

00:09:53.753 --> 00:09:55.413
So I'm probably going to get the eleven

00:09:55.493 --> 00:09:56.493
a whenever they announce it.

00:09:56.993 --> 00:09:59.933
Although my wife jokingly,

00:10:00.073 --> 00:10:02.134
I sent her the eleven fold and I

00:10:02.153 --> 00:10:03.434
was like, oh, we should get you this.

00:10:03.514 --> 00:10:04.894
And she was like, unironically, yes,

00:10:04.975 --> 00:10:05.894
that looks so cool.

00:10:06.355 --> 00:10:07.554
I would happily buy that.

00:10:08.095 --> 00:10:09.635
So I think what we're going to do

00:10:10.436 --> 00:10:11.395
because we don't really have a thousand

00:10:11.416 --> 00:10:12.316
dollars to drop right now.

00:10:12.936 --> 00:10:13.657
I think what we're going to do is

00:10:13.697 --> 00:10:16.356
probably wait until the twelve fold.

00:10:16.557 --> 00:10:18.197
So like next year's phone and then go

00:10:18.217 --> 00:10:19.618
ahead and order that for her and I'll

00:10:19.638 --> 00:10:20.298
just get the eleven a.

00:10:21.083 --> 00:10:21.984
Because I don't really care.

00:10:22.063 --> 00:10:22.965
I don't need my phone to do a

00:10:22.985 --> 00:10:23.345
whole lot.

00:10:23.365 --> 00:10:24.985
But she likes to play some games.

00:10:25.025 --> 00:10:27.525
She has ten billion pictures of the cats.

00:10:27.626 --> 00:10:28.647
Like all that kind of stuff.

00:10:28.687 --> 00:10:30.508
So she could use a little bit nicer

00:10:30.567 --> 00:10:30.967
of a phone.

00:10:31.008 --> 00:10:34.548
How about you?

00:10:34.568 --> 00:10:35.590
The main thing for me.

00:10:35.750 --> 00:10:36.509
So I do have.

00:10:37.730 --> 00:10:38.931
I kind of have a bunch of phones.

00:10:38.951 --> 00:10:40.671
Because obviously we need to do testing.

00:10:40.731 --> 00:10:42.451
On different devices and things.

00:10:43.032 --> 00:10:44.352
But the device that I do have.

00:10:44.393 --> 00:10:45.613
Is a Pixel Nine Pro.

00:10:45.712 --> 00:10:47.754
And I think the funniest thing.

00:10:47.854 --> 00:10:49.014
About the Eleven Pro.

00:10:49.995 --> 00:10:52.096
is that it starts with twelve gigabytes of

00:10:52.155 --> 00:10:52.475
RAM,

00:10:52.615 --> 00:10:54.236
which is less than the nine and the

00:10:54.277 --> 00:10:54.517
ten.

00:10:54.817 --> 00:10:56.378
So you're actually getting less RAM on

00:10:56.418 --> 00:10:58.879
this year's model unless you pay more.

00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:00.080
So I don't know.

00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:01.201
I was not really impressed.

00:11:01.701 --> 00:11:04.883
Let's just say that is a little I

00:11:04.923 --> 00:11:06.803
know that RAM prices are getting high and

00:11:06.864 --> 00:11:07.203
stuff,

00:11:07.244 --> 00:11:10.285
but like if you're decreasing the amount

00:11:10.306 --> 00:11:10.745
of RAM,

00:11:11.851 --> 00:11:14.773
on a pro device, um, year after year,

00:11:14.812 --> 00:11:16.633
then I dunno, that's,

00:11:16.753 --> 00:11:19.634
that doesn't leave a very nice taste in

00:11:19.673 --> 00:11:20.634
my mouth, but yeah,

00:11:20.714 --> 00:11:21.734
I've got five years of,

00:11:22.033 --> 00:11:23.293
of security updates left,

00:11:23.333 --> 00:11:24.794
so I'm not in any rush to,

00:11:25.174 --> 00:11:25.934
to go and upgrade.

00:11:25.975 --> 00:11:27.514
And I've never really had any issue with

00:11:27.975 --> 00:11:29.034
performance or anything.

00:11:29.455 --> 00:11:29.754
Um,

00:11:29.815 --> 00:11:33.556
so I am not going to be upgrading,

00:11:33.576 --> 00:11:33.615
uh,

00:11:34.436 --> 00:11:36.356
unless Google does something like really

00:11:36.397 --> 00:11:37.376
cool, like, you know,

00:11:38.557 --> 00:11:40.197
there's like some really massive security

00:11:40.238 --> 00:11:42.119
feature that they add, which, you know,

00:11:42.158 --> 00:11:43.058
the, the,

00:11:43.099 --> 00:11:44.839
the Titan M three security process is

00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:45.859
really cool and stuff,

00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:48.019
but it does seem like it's not,

00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:49.159
you know,

00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.000
a massive leap in security that that would

00:11:52.020 --> 00:11:54.921
be worth spending my goodness,

00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.241
a thousand dollars or more on a new

00:11:58.282 --> 00:11:58.581
phone.

00:11:58.861 --> 00:12:00.522
Um, so, you know,

00:12:00.741 --> 00:12:03.003
I'm always trying to get them secondhand

00:12:03.082 --> 00:12:03.923
and not, um,

00:12:05.477 --> 00:12:08.479
Not give Google money because, yeah,

00:12:08.678 --> 00:12:10.919
Google, not a great company.

00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:11.879
But, yeah,

00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:13.961
so I guess we could also talk a

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:14.441
little bit.

00:12:14.860 --> 00:12:16.581
You did put together like a short this

00:12:16.621 --> 00:12:18.302
week kind of describing a lot of what

00:12:18.342 --> 00:12:19.743
we talked about this week as well,

00:12:20.524 --> 00:12:21.443
if you want to dive into that a

00:12:21.464 --> 00:12:21.604
bit.

00:12:23.735 --> 00:12:24.035
Oh, yeah.

00:12:24.076 --> 00:12:26.940
I mean, there's not really much to say,

00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:27.620
to be honest.

00:12:27.660 --> 00:12:28.621
Let me see if I can pull it

00:12:28.662 --> 00:12:29.604
up real quick here.

00:12:30.825 --> 00:12:31.826
But yeah, I just...

00:12:32.707 --> 00:12:33.668
Every once in a while when there are

00:12:33.708 --> 00:12:34.571
these big announcements,

00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:35.871
like the graphene thing or the...

00:12:37.456 --> 00:12:37.836
excuse me,

00:12:37.875 --> 00:12:39.917
the graphene siding with Motorola thing or

00:12:40.618 --> 00:12:41.278
this announcement,

00:12:42.359 --> 00:12:43.899
we try to make sure that we get

00:12:44.259 --> 00:12:45.679
some kind of video out pretty quick.

00:12:47.201 --> 00:12:48.361
There wasn't really a lot about the

00:12:48.381 --> 00:12:50.243
privacy and security this time around.

00:12:50.582 --> 00:12:51.744
Like you said, the Titan,

00:12:52.224 --> 00:12:54.325
it's got the post-quantum cryptography

00:12:54.345 --> 00:12:54.865
stuff on it,

00:12:54.904 --> 00:12:56.985
but that's kind of future-proofing and

00:12:57.025 --> 00:12:57.866
getting ahead of the curve.

00:12:57.886 --> 00:12:59.248
It's not something that everybody needs to

00:12:59.307 --> 00:13:00.307
run out and buy right now.

00:13:01.629 --> 00:13:02.889
There wasn't really enough to justify a

00:13:02.950 --> 00:13:03.929
whole video, but yeah,

00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:04.789
we did put out this...

00:13:05.890 --> 00:13:06.692
this short here,

00:13:06.731 --> 00:13:08.533
which is not on this channel.

00:13:10.635 --> 00:13:11.336
I'll have to go find it.

00:13:11.397 --> 00:13:12.238
But yeah,

00:13:12.258 --> 00:13:13.519
we just put out a little short video,

00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:18.304
kind of giving people a quick rundown of

00:13:19.706 --> 00:13:20.488
all this new stuff.

00:13:20.768 --> 00:13:22.570
So I don't know,

00:13:22.610 --> 00:13:24.192
that's a I don't think there's too much

00:13:24.231 --> 00:13:25.994
to say about that one.

00:13:27.907 --> 00:13:28.147
Yeah,

00:13:28.226 --> 00:13:30.190
I guess we can just cover this comment

00:13:30.210 --> 00:13:31.571
here from Dag Overhaul.

00:13:31.610 --> 00:13:33.552
Pixel XI looks like a downgrade from the

00:13:33.572 --> 00:13:34.693
Pixel X, lol.

00:13:35.315 --> 00:13:36.576
Yeah, it's like what I was saying.

00:13:36.676 --> 00:13:38.658
The Pixel X looks like it might be

00:13:38.719 --> 00:13:40.200
better in some aspects.

00:13:41.422 --> 00:13:43.003
It's obviously we don't really know the

00:13:43.062 --> 00:13:45.365
specifics yet on performance and things

00:13:45.385 --> 00:13:45.745
because...

00:13:46.647 --> 00:13:46.866
you know,

00:13:46.947 --> 00:13:48.687
I think it's only being given to like

00:13:49.067 --> 00:13:52.687
people that are media and, you know,

00:13:52.727 --> 00:13:53.827
they're obviously going to have tainted

00:13:53.868 --> 00:13:55.048
opinions cause they've gotten a free

00:13:55.068 --> 00:13:55.948
product from Google.

00:13:55.989 --> 00:13:58.109
So let's wait and see, um,

00:13:58.129 --> 00:13:58.869
what that looks like.

00:13:58.928 --> 00:14:00.669
But Google's never had good performing

00:14:00.710 --> 00:14:01.750
devices and, oh yeah.

00:14:02.009 --> 00:14:03.309
So here's the, um,

00:14:03.590 --> 00:14:05.350
here's the short we put out, um,

00:14:05.429 --> 00:14:06.350
that Nate put together.

00:14:06.650 --> 00:14:08.051
So, uh, yeah,

00:14:08.071 --> 00:14:09.250
if you want to share that with people

00:14:09.270 --> 00:14:10.691
in your, in your life about this,

00:14:10.892 --> 00:14:12.491
about this new release and that'd be cool

00:14:12.511 --> 00:14:12.731
too.

00:14:13.312 --> 00:14:13.412
Um,

00:14:16.311 --> 00:14:18.092
Yeah, I think it's some interesting news.

00:14:18.592 --> 00:14:19.653
We wanted to cover it kind of as

00:14:19.673 --> 00:14:21.796
the highlight this week because I feel

00:14:21.816 --> 00:14:23.677
like everyone in the community is probably

00:14:23.697 --> 00:14:24.839
going to be having this question.

00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:26.379
So yeah,

00:14:26.419 --> 00:14:28.542
so Dag says it's twelve gigabytes of RAM

00:14:28.562 --> 00:14:30.043
versus sixteen in the Pixel X. Yeah,

00:14:30.063 --> 00:14:30.803
that's what I was saying.

00:14:30.844 --> 00:14:32.225
It's like it's actually wild.

00:14:32.525 --> 00:14:35.327
It's kind of ridiculous that that's

00:14:36.089 --> 00:14:37.049
something they decided to do.

00:14:40.086 --> 00:14:40.765
Yeah, for sure.

00:14:41.407 --> 00:14:42.687
NotThatPrivate asked,

00:14:43.048 --> 00:14:45.688
what post-quantum cryptography algorithm

00:14:45.729 --> 00:14:46.509
does the M-III use?

00:14:47.190 --> 00:14:48.070
From what I can tell,

00:14:48.149 --> 00:14:49.571
it doesn't look like they've disclosed

00:14:49.591 --> 00:14:50.010
that yet.

00:14:50.130 --> 00:14:51.792
I think they're still planning to publish

00:14:51.831 --> 00:14:53.413
a lot more technical details.

00:14:53.812 --> 00:14:55.433
This was just kind of the initial get

00:14:55.474 --> 00:14:58.174
people interested, which is also why,

00:14:58.335 --> 00:14:58.936
like you mentioned,

00:14:59.115 --> 00:15:00.417
there's probably some tech YouTubers that

00:15:00.437 --> 00:15:01.076
have this and stuff,

00:15:01.096 --> 00:15:02.977
but they kind of focus on the hardware,

00:15:03.038 --> 00:15:04.318
the performance, and everything.

00:15:04.438 --> 00:15:04.678
Yeah.

00:15:05.499 --> 00:15:09.861
Um, it looks like the open Titan chips,

00:15:09.881 --> 00:15:12.583
um, this comes from the AI summary.

00:15:12.624 --> 00:15:13.884
So I apologize if this is wrong.

00:15:14.424 --> 00:15:15.885
It says the open Titan chips,

00:15:15.905 --> 00:15:17.427
which is Google's open source route of

00:15:17.486 --> 00:15:20.107
trust currently use Sphinx plus also known

00:15:20.168 --> 00:15:22.750
as SLA SLH DSA or FIPS two Oh

00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:25.672
five for post quantum and secure boot with

00:15:25.812 --> 00:15:27.232
future extensions planned for lattice

00:15:27.273 --> 00:15:28.874
based schemes like dilithium and Kyber.

00:15:28.933 --> 00:15:30.293
So, um,

00:15:30.374 --> 00:15:31.875
if that helps a lot of the,

00:15:31.914 --> 00:15:33.456
the more technical stuff goes way over my

00:15:33.475 --> 00:15:33.655
head,

00:15:33.756 --> 00:15:33.897
but

00:15:35.038 --> 00:15:36.479
Yeah, I think just keep an eye out,

00:15:36.499 --> 00:15:37.960
and I'm sure they'll be releasing more

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:41.984
details in the near future.

00:15:42.205 --> 00:15:42.725
Yeah,

00:15:42.745 --> 00:15:44.927
I guess we can dive into some quick

00:15:44.966 --> 00:15:45.788
forum threads here.

00:15:45.807 --> 00:15:47.149
There were some people asking some

00:15:47.188 --> 00:15:48.990
questions and saying, you know,

00:15:49.150 --> 00:15:49.851
some comments.

00:15:49.912 --> 00:15:52.033
Do you want to just grab one of

00:15:52.053 --> 00:15:52.715
those real quick?

00:15:54.537 --> 00:15:55.277
Yeah, sure.

00:15:55.397 --> 00:15:57.558
So we posted about this on the forum,

00:15:57.599 --> 00:15:59.198
discuss.privacyguides.net.

00:15:59.259 --> 00:16:01.000
There's a good place to go and ask

00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:03.100
your questions in advance if you won't be

00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:03.981
able to watch the stream.

00:16:04.782 --> 00:16:06.562
And we had a couple of comments

00:16:06.802 --> 00:16:07.984
speculating, again,

00:16:08.024 --> 00:16:09.524
on whether or not Graphene will support

00:16:09.565 --> 00:16:09.664
it.

00:16:10.977 --> 00:16:14.201
Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean,

00:16:14.221 --> 00:16:15.020
it's mostly just that.

00:16:15.061 --> 00:16:16.802
So one person said that they think

00:16:17.243 --> 00:16:18.323
graphene will support it.

00:16:18.864 --> 00:16:19.524
And they cited,

00:16:19.585 --> 00:16:21.066
I think the same quote that you cited

00:16:21.086 --> 00:16:22.427
earlier from Twitter where they said it

00:16:22.447 --> 00:16:23.287
hasn't been released yet.

00:16:23.307 --> 00:16:24.347
We don't have an idea how long it'll

00:16:24.368 --> 00:16:24.648
take.

00:16:25.208 --> 00:16:27.029
Um, somebody else said, I think not.

00:16:27.711 --> 00:16:28.650
Uh, somebody said,

00:16:28.691 --> 00:16:30.293
I'm crossing my fingers that the eleven

00:16:30.312 --> 00:16:30.932
will be supported.

00:16:30.972 --> 00:16:32.374
Titan M three and graphene could be a

00:16:32.413 --> 00:16:33.154
match made in heaven.

00:16:33.774 --> 00:16:35.876
So, um, yeah, that's kind of it.

00:16:39.341 --> 00:16:41.322
Sweet.

00:16:41.423 --> 00:16:43.586
I think that'll take us into our next

00:16:43.625 --> 00:16:44.427
story here.

00:16:45.408 --> 00:16:47.792
And we're going to talk about the White

00:16:47.831 --> 00:16:48.231
House

00:16:49.065 --> 00:16:51.505
is potentially allowing cybersecurity

00:16:51.546 --> 00:16:54.268
firms to do offensive hackbacks,

00:16:54.788 --> 00:16:55.248
which is new.

00:16:56.288 --> 00:16:58.450
This is never beneficial before.

00:16:59.009 --> 00:16:59.811
So on Wednesday,

00:16:59.831 --> 00:17:02.111
the National Security Presidential

00:17:02.152 --> 00:17:05.073
Memorandum was signed that instructs the

00:17:05.113 --> 00:17:06.834
National Coordination Center to establish

00:17:06.854 --> 00:17:07.994
a program that would allow private

00:17:08.035 --> 00:17:10.296
security companies to apply for approval

00:17:10.336 --> 00:17:12.836
to hack foreign cybercrime organizations.

00:17:15.066 --> 00:17:15.306
Let's see,

00:17:15.326 --> 00:17:16.967
the program will be overseen by executive

00:17:16.987 --> 00:17:18.528
directors designated by the justice and

00:17:18.567 --> 00:17:20.528
Homeland security departments and security

00:17:20.548 --> 00:17:21.989
firms participating in the program will

00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:23.609
undergo vetting before entering into

00:17:23.650 --> 00:17:25.171
contracts with one of the two departments.

00:17:26.311 --> 00:17:26.892
Additionally,

00:17:26.912 --> 00:17:28.333
the memorandum requires procedures

00:17:28.393 --> 00:17:29.972
ensuring operations comply with US

00:17:30.013 --> 00:17:30.574
constitution,

00:17:30.634 --> 00:17:32.755
federal law and international obligations.

00:17:33.174 --> 00:17:34.316
Participating companies will have to

00:17:34.336 --> 00:17:35.996
maintain a bond or escrow of at least

00:17:36.016 --> 00:17:37.257
a million dollars that will be forfeit

00:17:37.497 --> 00:17:38.977
forfeited if they don't comply with

00:17:39.017 --> 00:17:39.938
contractual agreements.

00:17:40.397 --> 00:17:41.678
And they must also immediately stop

00:17:41.718 --> 00:17:43.138
operations if they discover activity

00:17:43.219 --> 00:17:44.278
exceeding approved limits,

00:17:44.618 --> 00:17:46.319
including unintended target of US citizens

00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.641
or US based systems and notify the

00:17:48.780 --> 00:17:50.142
National Coordination Center.

00:17:50.561 --> 00:17:51.602
The White House said the program is

00:17:51.622 --> 00:17:53.042
intended to disrupt foreign criminal

00:17:53.143 --> 00:17:54.482
organizations involved in ransomware

00:17:54.502 --> 00:17:55.503
attacks, phishing campaigns,

00:17:55.523 --> 00:17:56.144
financial fraud.

00:17:56.723 --> 00:17:58.605
extortion schemes and impersonation scams.

00:17:58.644 --> 00:18:00.125
And it added that us consumers have

00:18:00.164 --> 00:18:01.806
reported losing more than twenty point

00:18:01.986 --> 00:18:04.566
eight billion dollars with a B to cyber

00:18:04.646 --> 00:18:07.968
enabled crime in twenty twenty five.

00:18:08.688 --> 00:18:12.409
So this is this is a bit of

00:18:12.429 --> 00:18:13.209
a departure.

00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:19.730
Because up until now, I mean, yeah,

00:18:19.770 --> 00:18:21.951
like nobody has ever authorized

00:18:24.096 --> 00:18:24.556
like this.

00:18:24.936 --> 00:18:26.078
That's kind of what they're calling it.

00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.003
And I don't know.

00:18:29.044 --> 00:18:29.705
This is just really...

00:18:30.507 --> 00:18:31.608
It's hard for me to put into words.

00:18:31.648 --> 00:18:32.911
It's one of those things where it's very

00:18:33.291 --> 00:18:34.374
aggressive and it's very...

00:18:35.834 --> 00:18:35.973
I mean,

00:18:36.013 --> 00:18:39.315
I think there's a lot of questions here.

00:18:39.795 --> 00:18:41.134
Like for one, this kind of blurs,

00:18:41.914 --> 00:18:43.375
or I should say further blurs the line

00:18:43.415 --> 00:18:44.655
between government and private companies,

00:18:44.715 --> 00:18:44.875
right?

00:18:44.915 --> 00:18:46.416
We already have so many issues with all

00:18:46.457 --> 00:18:49.277
these defense contractors and surveillance

00:18:49.297 --> 00:18:49.916
contractors,

00:18:49.957 --> 00:18:52.438
Flock and Palantir and all these data

00:18:52.458 --> 00:18:53.057
brokers.

00:18:53.238 --> 00:18:54.858
And there's already like a very blurry

00:18:54.898 --> 00:18:56.638
line, especially in the military, right?

00:18:56.659 --> 00:18:59.180
Between like private contractors and

00:18:59.220 --> 00:18:59.680
government.

00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:02.140
And when you have a private contractor

00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.421
acting on behalf of the government,

00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:04.280
that's definitely a

00:19:05.768 --> 00:19:06.288
not cool.

00:19:06.788 --> 00:19:06.949
Um,

00:19:07.108 --> 00:19:08.730
I have questions personally about

00:19:09.332 --> 00:19:11.314
differentiating cyber crime from state

00:19:11.354 --> 00:19:12.154
sanctioned activities.

00:19:12.255 --> 00:19:19.303
Like this is companies are notoriously

00:19:20.483 --> 00:19:23.326
cautious about, um,

00:19:25.362 --> 00:19:28.063
about attributing cyber attacks to other

00:19:28.103 --> 00:19:28.502
countries.

00:19:28.883 --> 00:19:30.203
And some of that is a political thing.

00:19:30.243 --> 00:19:31.503
Like you don't want to accuse somebody of

00:19:31.523 --> 00:19:32.663
something unless you're a hundred percent

00:19:32.703 --> 00:19:35.744
positive, but also at the same time,

00:19:35.825 --> 00:19:36.925
it's just, it can be really hard.

00:19:36.965 --> 00:19:38.306
Like code is code and there can be

00:19:38.346 --> 00:19:39.366
little indicators

00:19:40.626 --> 00:19:41.528
based on patterns,

00:19:41.567 --> 00:19:43.108
but it's really hard to definitively say

00:19:43.189 --> 00:19:45.131
like this company or this group was behind

00:19:45.151 --> 00:19:45.691
this attack.

00:19:46.731 --> 00:19:48.133
When an organization comes forward and

00:19:48.153 --> 00:19:49.294
attributes a cyber attack,

00:19:49.773 --> 00:19:51.154
it's a pretty big deal actually.

00:19:51.855 --> 00:19:54.017
And especially I'm thinking of like North

00:19:54.037 --> 00:19:55.979
Korea, for example, which for the record,

00:19:55.999 --> 00:19:56.699
I'm not defending this,

00:19:56.719 --> 00:19:58.820
but North Korea largely funds themselves

00:19:58.861 --> 00:20:01.343
by like Bitcoin theft and scams and stuff

00:20:01.383 --> 00:20:01.742
like that.

00:20:01.782 --> 00:20:03.124
Like their government has been so heavily

00:20:03.163 --> 00:20:03.564
sanctioned.

00:20:03.924 --> 00:20:05.184
That's the only way the country can make

00:20:05.226 --> 00:20:06.727
money anymore and stay afloat.

00:20:07.326 --> 00:20:09.127
And so that just feels like a gray

00:20:09.208 --> 00:20:10.367
area to me where it's like, okay,

00:20:10.468 --> 00:20:12.647
if North Korea hacks Coinbase and steals a

00:20:12.667 --> 00:20:13.368
bunch of Bitcoin,

00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:15.729
is that a cybercrime or is that a

00:20:15.769 --> 00:20:16.710
state-sponsored attack?

00:20:16.849 --> 00:20:18.869
And are they allowed to hack back or

00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:19.230
not?

00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:21.490
Because it does... I mean,

00:20:21.871 --> 00:20:24.372
I didn't read the memorandum itself.

00:20:24.471 --> 00:20:25.132
I probably should.

00:20:26.092 --> 00:20:27.372
But this article didn't say anything about

00:20:27.412 --> 00:20:28.633
attacking state operations.

00:20:28.653 --> 00:20:30.932
It said trying to deter cybercrime and

00:20:30.972 --> 00:20:32.054
disrupt cybercrime.

00:20:32.094 --> 00:20:32.513
So like...

00:20:33.334 --> 00:20:33.794
I don't know,

00:20:33.814 --> 00:20:35.535
that just feels like a really big gray

00:20:35.615 --> 00:20:36.234
area to me.

00:20:36.575 --> 00:20:39.317
And the other thing that they noted in

00:20:39.356 --> 00:20:41.017
here is that this could cause perverse

00:20:41.037 --> 00:20:41.517
incentives.

00:20:42.018 --> 00:20:43.718
Like a million dollars for most company is

00:20:43.778 --> 00:20:44.878
not really much.

00:20:45.138 --> 00:20:45.318
I mean,

00:20:45.939 --> 00:20:47.500
we see companies get fined millions of

00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:49.060
dollars for privacy violations and it's

00:20:49.080 --> 00:20:50.361
just a cost of doing business for them.

00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:51.721
So this whole idea of like, oh,

00:20:51.741 --> 00:20:52.902
you have to put down a million dollars.

00:20:52.922 --> 00:20:53.821
That's like telling me I have to put

00:20:53.863 --> 00:20:55.883
five dollars in as a deposit to get

00:20:55.923 --> 00:20:56.182
somewhere.

00:20:56.222 --> 00:20:57.423
Like, oh, five dollars in,

00:20:57.443 --> 00:20:58.084
five dollars back.

00:20:58.144 --> 00:20:58.703
I don't even care.

00:20:58.805 --> 00:20:59.424
It's five dollars.

00:20:59.464 --> 00:20:59.785
Keep it.

00:21:00.005 --> 00:21:01.806
Like, I'm not that hard up for money.

00:21:01.865 --> 00:21:02.006
So

00:21:04.401 --> 00:21:04.681
Yeah.

00:21:05.040 --> 00:21:06.902
And what was it at the very end?

00:21:07.823 --> 00:21:09.183
One of the people they interviewed said

00:21:09.403 --> 00:21:11.224
that they described it as a perpetual

00:21:11.265 --> 00:21:12.546
motion for billable threats.

00:21:12.965 --> 00:21:14.487
So the idea is that private firms might

00:21:14.527 --> 00:21:16.127
have a financial incentive to create or

00:21:16.188 --> 00:21:17.709
exaggerate threats to justify their

00:21:17.749 --> 00:21:18.230
contracts,

00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:20.290
which we already see that happening a lot.

00:21:20.990 --> 00:21:21.652
So yeah.

00:21:23.576 --> 00:21:24.016
Yeah.

00:21:25.217 --> 00:21:25.757
And this is,

00:21:27.657 --> 00:21:29.138
I'm assuming you added this here, Jordan,

00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:30.638
but at the end of the notes here,

00:21:30.659 --> 00:21:31.039
we have like,

00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:32.279
why is this still important for people

00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:33.580
living outside of the United States?

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.102
Which is a really good question.

00:21:35.321 --> 00:21:37.122
And I think it's just because this really

00:21:37.222 --> 00:21:37.843
raises,

00:21:39.284 --> 00:21:41.084
this raises the possibility of something

00:21:41.124 --> 00:21:41.744
going wrong.

00:21:42.204 --> 00:21:46.386
If a private company attacks a

00:21:47.797 --> 00:21:49.538
Um, let's say they attribute it to,

00:21:49.557 --> 00:21:50.657
I don't know,

00:21:50.698 --> 00:21:54.638
China and they hack a Chinese company and

00:21:54.659 --> 00:21:56.259
China says, no, we weren't behind this,

00:21:56.299 --> 00:21:56.920
whether they mean it,

00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:58.000
like whether it's true or not,

00:21:58.040 --> 00:21:58.740
if China insists,

00:21:58.780 --> 00:21:59.840
like we are not behind this,

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.521
that could escalate things.

00:22:01.662 --> 00:22:02.142
And it's just,

00:22:02.182 --> 00:22:04.383
the world is so closely interconnected now

00:22:04.403 --> 00:22:04.563
that.

00:22:05.163 --> 00:22:06.624
everything i mean we've been seeing it

00:22:06.663 --> 00:22:07.963
play out for the last couple years right

00:22:07.983 --> 00:22:10.305
it's like everything that especially big

00:22:10.345 --> 00:22:13.365
countries china russia uk us everything

00:22:13.405 --> 00:22:15.227
that we do has knock-on effects to other

00:22:15.267 --> 00:22:16.527
countries around the world so it's just

00:22:16.567 --> 00:22:18.307
one of those things where like i i

00:22:18.327 --> 00:22:19.688
feel like there's so many opportunities

00:22:19.728 --> 00:22:20.909
for things to go wrong there's so much

00:22:21.169 --> 00:22:22.429
and especially in the cyberspace you can't

00:22:22.469 --> 00:22:23.990
physically see where you're at right i'm

00:22:24.009 --> 00:22:27.951
gonna digress real quick um darknet

00:22:27.971 --> 00:22:29.751
diaries did an episode where he talked

00:22:29.771 --> 00:22:30.832
about he's done a lot of episodes where

00:22:30.853 --> 00:22:31.512
he talked about um

00:22:33.182 --> 00:22:33.862
pen testers.

00:22:34.061 --> 00:22:35.202
And one of them that stuck out to

00:22:35.222 --> 00:22:36.444
me specifically was they were hired to

00:22:36.484 --> 00:22:37.184
test a hospital.

00:22:37.865 --> 00:22:39.567
And they talked about all the different

00:22:39.586 --> 00:22:40.548
systems they got into.

00:22:41.108 --> 00:22:41.788
And one of them,

00:22:41.989 --> 00:22:43.190
they didn't know what the system was,

00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:44.652
but they wrote it down in their report.

00:22:45.092 --> 00:22:46.173
And they mentioned like, oh,

00:22:46.232 --> 00:22:47.253
we got into this system.

00:22:47.794 --> 00:22:49.236
And that particular system,

00:22:49.276 --> 00:22:50.176
as soon as they said that,

00:22:50.257 --> 00:22:51.298
everybody was like, wait, what?

00:22:51.597 --> 00:22:51.938
Which one?

00:22:52.117 --> 00:22:52.417
Hold on.

00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:53.378
We'll call you back.

00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.681
And it turned out they had hacked into...

00:22:56.541 --> 00:22:57.663
I think it was like a laser machine

00:22:57.722 --> 00:22:58.803
being used for surgery,

00:22:58.843 --> 00:23:01.064
like actively being used in a surgery

00:23:01.443 --> 00:23:03.265
while they were in the system.

00:23:03.345 --> 00:23:04.846
And thankfully they didn't do anything.

00:23:04.885 --> 00:23:05.885
Like they just went in and they were

00:23:05.905 --> 00:23:06.645
like, all right, make a note.

00:23:06.665 --> 00:23:07.247
We got into this,

00:23:07.626 --> 00:23:08.606
move on to the next target.

00:23:09.186 --> 00:23:09.366
And,

00:23:09.507 --> 00:23:10.867
but that just kind of shows that like

00:23:11.008 --> 00:23:12.028
when you're in cyberspace,

00:23:12.388 --> 00:23:13.489
you're looking at an IP address,

00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:14.569
you're looking at a server name.

00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:16.871
You can't tell if that's in Beijing or

00:23:16.931 --> 00:23:20.071
Moscow or Uganda or Germany.

00:23:20.172 --> 00:23:22.653
Like you don't know necessarily right off

00:23:22.692 --> 00:23:23.073
the bat.

00:23:23.113 --> 00:23:24.634
So I think there's just a lot of,

00:23:26.263 --> 00:23:27.144
a lot of room for things to go

00:23:27.184 --> 00:23:28.484
wrong here for people to get caught up

00:23:28.525 --> 00:23:31.386
in crossfire for uh tensions to escalate

00:23:31.926 --> 00:23:34.749
um yeah i don't know that's that's kind

00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:36.849
of my take on this thing i don't

00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:38.151
know if i missed anything on this story

00:23:38.191 --> 00:23:39.771
that you had any more thoughts on but

00:23:41.913 --> 00:23:45.355
yeah no i don't really have anything to

00:23:45.515 --> 00:23:47.375
add but i think it's uh definitely an

00:23:47.395 --> 00:23:49.237
important discussion to have um

00:23:50.733 --> 00:23:53.715
And I guess I would say,

00:23:54.375 --> 00:23:56.037
what can people do about this?

00:23:56.196 --> 00:23:59.138
Is this something that people can have a

00:23:59.179 --> 00:23:59.798
say about?

00:23:59.979 --> 00:24:01.279
Or is this something that's kind of just

00:24:01.299 --> 00:24:07.262
been decided without any review from the

00:24:07.303 --> 00:24:09.084
public?

00:24:09.384 --> 00:24:12.125
I don't know, to be honest with you.

00:24:13.286 --> 00:24:13.967
I would imagine...

00:24:15.103 --> 00:24:16.523
maybe somebody who's a lawyer can correct

00:24:16.564 --> 00:24:16.663
me.

00:24:16.844 --> 00:24:18.265
I would imagine that this is probably

00:24:18.285 --> 00:24:20.027
going to get challenged by somebody in

00:24:20.086 --> 00:24:21.028
court, um,

00:24:21.048 --> 00:24:23.148
just for being like reckless and scary and

00:24:23.209 --> 00:24:25.490
possibly like some kind of international

00:24:25.611 --> 00:24:26.271
illegal thing.

00:24:27.211 --> 00:24:28.353
Not like we seem to care about that

00:24:28.373 --> 00:24:30.434
these days, but I don't, I don't know.

00:24:30.555 --> 00:24:31.715
I don't know what the average person can

00:24:31.756 --> 00:24:34.117
do other than just the usual advice we

00:24:34.137 --> 00:24:35.419
would give to anybody, which is, you know,

00:24:35.459 --> 00:24:36.759
try to keep your stuff updated,

00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:37.819
try to keep your stuff, uh,

00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:39.821
good passwords and stuff.

00:24:39.842 --> 00:24:41.403
Try to keep your stuff as relatively

00:24:41.462 --> 00:24:42.483
hacker proof as possible.

00:24:43.464 --> 00:24:43.644
Um,

00:24:46.078 --> 00:24:46.919
I don't want to sound paranoid,

00:24:46.939 --> 00:24:48.140
but maybe a little disaster prep.

00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:48.480
I mean,

00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:50.201
we've covered so many cyber attacks that

00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.102
take down, you know, hospitals,

00:24:54.242 --> 00:24:55.083
fuel pumps,

00:24:56.304 --> 00:24:58.585
just kind of having like enough basic cash

00:24:58.644 --> 00:25:00.265
and food on hand to get you through

00:25:00.286 --> 00:25:01.506
a few days is really not a bad

00:25:01.566 --> 00:25:02.747
idea ever for anybody.

00:25:03.146 --> 00:25:05.528
Because you never know if a cyber attack

00:25:05.567 --> 00:25:07.288
will bring down the payment systems or

00:25:07.308 --> 00:25:07.588
whatever.

00:25:07.729 --> 00:25:07.868
So

00:25:08.915 --> 00:25:09.457
I don't know.

00:25:09.616 --> 00:25:11.057
I don't know if we, the people,

00:25:11.097 --> 00:25:12.338
have a whole lot of options here.

00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:14.501
You could maybe try contacting your

00:25:14.521 --> 00:25:15.643
representatives and being like, hey,

00:25:15.682 --> 00:25:16.564
this seems bad.

00:25:17.003 --> 00:25:17.964
Can we not do this?

00:25:18.125 --> 00:25:20.548
But I don't realistically know if there

00:25:20.587 --> 00:25:22.529
are any laws being violated here.

00:25:24.664 --> 00:25:25.085
Right.

00:25:25.184 --> 00:25:25.546
Okay.

00:25:25.586 --> 00:25:25.826
Yeah.

00:25:25.885 --> 00:25:27.467
I guess we can dive into some site

00:25:27.527 --> 00:25:28.287
updates here.

00:25:28.607 --> 00:25:30.449
I'll just dive into some of the stuff

00:25:30.628 --> 00:25:32.589
I've been working on and then Nate can

00:25:32.609 --> 00:25:35.711
go and explain some of the videos we've

00:25:35.731 --> 00:25:36.511
published this week.

00:25:36.592 --> 00:25:39.473
So we've got upcoming videos here.

00:25:39.513 --> 00:25:41.315
We've got a tier list,

00:25:41.556 --> 00:25:43.576
a password tier list video that's coming

00:25:43.636 --> 00:25:43.836
up.

00:25:44.717 --> 00:25:46.479
Nate has been editing that and it looks

00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:48.660
like it's pretty much ready to go.

00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:50.141
We just have to do a little bit

00:25:50.161 --> 00:25:51.040
of final checking.

00:25:51.561 --> 00:25:52.863
There's a video about

00:25:54.278 --> 00:25:58.358
creating a Bitcoin wallet without

00:25:58.398 --> 00:25:59.459
connecting to the internet,

00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.200
completely cold, instead of, you know,

00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.861
using some sort of generation method.

00:26:05.941 --> 00:26:07.201
And the reason why we wanted to talk

00:26:07.221 --> 00:26:07.682
about that,

00:26:08.082 --> 00:26:11.182
we use diceware system instead of,

00:26:11.542 --> 00:26:11.803
you know,

00:26:11.962 --> 00:26:14.603
using a chip to generate that wallet seed

00:26:14.623 --> 00:26:15.003
phrase,

00:26:15.084 --> 00:26:15.743
because

00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:18.961
There was a recent issue that we did

00:26:19.361 --> 00:26:21.780
do a post on the privacy news section

00:26:21.800 --> 00:26:24.582
of our site about cold wallet, I believe,

00:26:24.882 --> 00:26:27.903
cold card, cold card, hardware wallets.

00:26:28.042 --> 00:26:30.683
And basically the generation system that

00:26:30.703 --> 00:26:32.003
they used was predictable,

00:26:32.023 --> 00:26:33.684
which allowed basically anyone to

00:26:35.057 --> 00:26:37.358
access the wallet seed phrases so

00:26:38.699 --> 00:26:42.181
obviously that is extremely bad and that

00:26:42.201 --> 00:26:44.461
was a complete disaster so Jonah was like

00:26:44.561 --> 00:26:46.202
well there's a way to fix this right

00:26:46.242 --> 00:26:48.785
so he put together this video on how

00:26:48.825 --> 00:26:52.205
you can use basically a dice a word

00:26:52.246 --> 00:26:55.228
list and how you can basically create a

00:26:55.248 --> 00:26:57.189
really secure seed phrase that

00:26:58.211 --> 00:27:00.173
is a hundred percent random instead of

00:27:00.414 --> 00:27:01.096
being predictable,

00:27:01.135 --> 00:27:03.859
like with the terrible situation that

00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:05.542
happened with cold card.

00:27:05.643 --> 00:27:07.506
So that's going to be an interesting one,

00:27:07.566 --> 00:27:09.509
which, which should be out on,

00:27:09.589 --> 00:27:11.092
I believe two days from now.

00:27:11.373 --> 00:27:12.674
So definitely look out for that.

00:27:14.417 --> 00:27:16.078
And yeah,

00:27:16.098 --> 00:27:18.058
that's kind of what we've been doing in

00:27:18.118 --> 00:27:21.000
terms of I've been working on some things

00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.701
on the behind the scenes stuff,

00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:24.800
working on thumbnails,

00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:26.060
stuff like that for videos.

00:27:26.540 --> 00:27:28.662
We've kind of trying to be debugging the

00:27:28.721 --> 00:27:29.842
flock video a little bit.

00:27:30.102 --> 00:27:31.083
We're not really sure why,

00:27:31.123 --> 00:27:33.123
but it didn't seem to reach too many

00:27:33.143 --> 00:27:33.482
people.

00:27:33.542 --> 00:27:34.663
So we're trying to work out

00:27:35.483 --> 00:27:38.987
why that was the case and kind of

00:27:39.007 --> 00:27:40.248
be messing around with that too.

00:27:41.087 --> 00:27:41.288
Okay.

00:27:41.307 --> 00:27:42.388
So there's also some,

00:27:42.868 --> 00:27:45.590
there's a release this week as well for

00:27:45.612 --> 00:27:47.692
the site, which had some updates.

00:27:48.614 --> 00:27:51.256
We updated the foundations and

00:27:51.336 --> 00:27:53.616
organizational donors on the website,

00:27:54.538 --> 00:27:55.499
removed a spam link,

00:27:56.019 --> 00:28:00.702
and there was a fix to the Yubico

00:28:00.982 --> 00:28:03.384
UTF on Linux page.

00:28:04.125 --> 00:28:04.486
So yeah,

00:28:04.506 --> 00:28:06.529
that was kind of a small amount of

00:28:06.589 --> 00:28:09.115
updates this week on the site.

00:28:09.576 --> 00:28:11.160
And there was some articles as well that

00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.463
Freya and Nate have been working on.

00:28:13.564 --> 00:28:13.724
So

00:28:14.436 --> 00:28:18.038
There was one about a zero-day

00:28:18.077 --> 00:28:20.417
vulnerability in Windows from Nightmare

00:28:20.438 --> 00:28:20.999
Eclipse,

00:28:21.818 --> 00:28:24.239
severe Zoom vulnerability allowing

00:28:24.278 --> 00:28:25.880
malicious meeting participants to take

00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:26.839
over your device,

00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:29.901
Californian city declares state of

00:28:29.921 --> 00:28:31.601
emergency after cyber attack,

00:28:31.820 --> 00:28:34.321
and there was also one about an

00:28:39.192 --> 00:28:40.635
system takeover.

00:28:40.955 --> 00:28:42.157
So yeah,

00:28:42.238 --> 00:28:44.301
let me throw it back to you, Nate,

00:28:44.342 --> 00:28:45.624
and you can talk a little bit about

00:28:45.723 --> 00:28:47.887
the videos that we've been publishing and

00:28:47.907 --> 00:28:48.890
that are coming out soon.

00:28:50.907 --> 00:28:51.307
Yeah.

00:28:51.488 --> 00:28:52.647
So, um,

00:28:52.688 --> 00:28:54.449
we've been kind of pushing out a lot

00:28:54.489 --> 00:28:57.409
of videos in very short order, uh,

00:28:57.429 --> 00:28:58.269
which is exciting.

00:28:58.569 --> 00:28:59.470
Very cool for us.

00:29:00.230 --> 00:29:02.290
Um, we put out one, uh,

00:29:02.310 --> 00:29:03.351
we've been advertising this one for

00:29:03.371 --> 00:29:03.711
awhile.

00:29:03.750 --> 00:29:04.310
There was a, uh,

00:29:04.451 --> 00:29:06.010
we did a video about bull run,

00:29:06.050 --> 00:29:08.971
which was the NSA's attempt in like the

00:29:09.031 --> 00:29:10.672
nineties, eighties nineties,

00:29:10.731 --> 00:29:14.393
two thousands, I think to either, um,

00:29:14.413 --> 00:29:15.752
what did we say here to either hack,

00:29:15.874 --> 00:29:17.933
cooperate, interdict or influence.

00:29:18.467 --> 00:29:21.269
basically everything and all the different

00:29:21.289 --> 00:29:24.212
ways they tried to compromise encryption

00:29:24.294 --> 00:29:24.854
on the internet.

00:29:25.234 --> 00:29:26.875
That went out last week,

00:29:26.895 --> 00:29:28.298
but now it's finally out to the public.

00:29:28.337 --> 00:29:29.358
So everybody can go watch it.

00:29:29.419 --> 00:29:30.440
Definitely go check that out.

00:29:31.381 --> 00:29:32.780
Um, very proud of that video.

00:29:33.442 --> 00:29:35.021
And then also, yeah, this is the, uh,

00:29:35.041 --> 00:29:36.583
the flock one that Jordan mentioned.

00:29:36.863 --> 00:29:38.182
Um, we're not really sure why,

00:29:38.222 --> 00:29:39.742
but for some reason it really,

00:29:39.982 --> 00:29:41.344
really did not perform well.

00:29:42.104 --> 00:29:42.423
Um,

00:29:42.443 --> 00:29:45.884
which is sad because this is an issue

00:29:45.904 --> 00:29:47.204
that everybody's, uh, you know,

00:29:47.224 --> 00:29:48.546
I think I mentioned last week that it

00:29:48.566 --> 00:29:49.905
was on a John Oliver episode and like,

00:29:50.145 --> 00:29:51.186
this is an issue that has hit the

00:29:51.207 --> 00:29:51.826
mainstream.

00:29:52.446 --> 00:29:54.607
And for some reason the video just didn't

00:29:54.688 --> 00:29:55.347
do very well.

00:29:55.667 --> 00:29:55.748
Um,

00:29:56.528 --> 00:29:57.367
So I don't know if you have any

00:29:57.428 --> 00:29:58.628
ideas, let us know for sure.

00:29:58.709 --> 00:29:59.949
But in the meantime,

00:30:00.368 --> 00:30:02.950
you can head over to neat.tube and check

00:30:02.970 --> 00:30:03.089
it out.

00:30:03.150 --> 00:30:04.690
Or there's also a link in the newsletter,

00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:05.069
of course,

00:30:05.691 --> 00:30:07.171
and you can check it out for yourself,

00:30:07.211 --> 00:30:08.290
share it with your friends and family.

00:30:08.310 --> 00:30:11.132
There's actually a national week of action

00:30:11.271 --> 00:30:13.893
against ALPRs starting Sunday and going

00:30:13.913 --> 00:30:14.633
through Saturday.

00:30:14.853 --> 00:30:16.874
So this video was kind of released to

00:30:16.913 --> 00:30:18.794
coincide with that and kind of hopefully

00:30:18.834 --> 00:30:20.835
get people interested and fired up for it.

00:30:20.914 --> 00:30:24.675
But I think that's noalprs.com for more

00:30:24.715 --> 00:30:25.556
information on that.

00:30:25.655 --> 00:30:25.796
But

00:30:26.977 --> 00:30:27.217
Yeah,

00:30:28.616 --> 00:30:30.837
that is pretty much all we've been up

00:30:30.877 --> 00:30:32.938
to in terms of videos.

00:30:32.998 --> 00:30:33.178
I mean,

00:30:33.218 --> 00:30:33.978
pretty much all we've been up to.

00:30:33.998 --> 00:30:34.337
It's a lot.

00:30:34.397 --> 00:30:35.159
It's a lot for a week.

00:30:36.058 --> 00:30:36.999
We've done a lot this week.

00:30:37.419 --> 00:30:38.538
But yeah,

00:30:38.598 --> 00:30:40.059
all this is made possible by our

00:30:40.099 --> 00:30:40.519
supporters.

00:30:40.579 --> 00:30:41.819
You can sign up for a membership or

00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:43.279
donate at privacyguides.org.

00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:44.079
Or of course,

00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:44.880
pick up some swag at

00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:46.260
shop.privacyguides.org.

00:30:46.580 --> 00:30:47.980
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

00:30:48.020 --> 00:30:49.441
researches and shares privacy-related

00:30:49.461 --> 00:30:51.142
information and facilitates a community on

00:30:51.182 --> 00:30:52.201
our forum and matrix.

00:30:52.662 --> 00:30:54.123
where people can ask questions and get

00:30:54.163 --> 00:30:55.663
advice about staying private online and

00:30:55.682 --> 00:30:57.044
preserving their digital rights.

00:30:57.644 --> 00:30:58.384
Now, as a reminder,

00:30:58.943 --> 00:30:59.845
as you're watching the stream,

00:30:59.884 --> 00:31:01.404
go ahead and leave any questions you have

00:31:01.444 --> 00:31:02.144
for us in the chat.

00:31:02.224 --> 00:31:03.726
They can be related to the stories or

00:31:03.746 --> 00:31:05.246
they can be random privacy and security

00:31:05.286 --> 00:31:05.826
questions.

00:31:06.946 --> 00:31:07.487
Actually, on that note,

00:31:07.507 --> 00:31:08.627
I'm going to go back real quick to...

00:31:10.536 --> 00:31:12.176
laptop here left a couple questions when

00:31:12.196 --> 00:31:13.317
we were talking about the White House

00:31:13.337 --> 00:31:13.617
story.

00:31:14.137 --> 00:31:14.378
You said,

00:31:14.419 --> 00:31:15.660
why would it stop being bad just because

00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:16.400
the state is doing it?

00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:17.740
It's not that it stops being bad.

00:31:17.840 --> 00:31:19.762
It's that then that becomes an attack.

00:31:20.623 --> 00:31:21.384
If we go after,

00:31:21.503 --> 00:31:25.086
if there's a private hacking group in,

00:31:25.948 --> 00:31:27.148
I'm just picking a random country and I'm

00:31:27.189 --> 00:31:27.449
sorry.

00:31:27.828 --> 00:31:28.910
If there's a private hacking group in

00:31:28.930 --> 00:31:30.790
Cambodia that's going around doing scams

00:31:30.830 --> 00:31:32.292
and hacking into people's Facebook

00:31:32.313 --> 00:31:32.732
accounts and

00:31:33.153 --> 00:31:34.773
And we take them out.

00:31:35.554 --> 00:31:38.013
That is distinctly different from like

00:31:38.074 --> 00:31:39.154
attacking a government.

00:31:39.234 --> 00:31:41.454
If the government of Cambodia is breaking

00:31:41.474 --> 00:31:42.576
into people's Facebook accounts,

00:31:42.895 --> 00:31:43.675
it's just politically,

00:31:43.695 --> 00:31:44.976
it turns into a very different thing.

00:31:45.016 --> 00:31:47.477
It's the difference between like taking

00:31:47.517 --> 00:31:49.178
out a mugger versus taking out a soldier,

00:31:49.758 --> 00:31:50.357
which is still,

00:31:51.857 --> 00:31:52.898
there's still a lot of like,

00:31:53.679 --> 00:31:54.159
I don't know.

00:31:54.298 --> 00:31:54.898
I feel icky,

00:31:54.959 --> 00:31:56.339
like operating in other people's space,

00:31:56.380 --> 00:31:57.299
but my point being,

00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:58.500
it doesn't necessarily stop being bad.

00:31:58.539 --> 00:31:59.240
It's just,

00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.861
it's a whole different can of worms.

00:32:00.980 --> 00:32:01.540
And yeah,

00:32:01.993 --> 00:32:04.096
You also said our IP address is allocated

00:32:04.135 --> 00:32:04.817
more or less regionally.

00:32:04.876 --> 00:32:05.458
You might be right.

00:32:05.617 --> 00:32:06.038
I don't know.

00:32:06.098 --> 00:32:06.940
That goes above my head.

00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:08.381
I'm just saying it's not as obvious as

00:32:08.401 --> 00:32:11.144
like if you're flying over a physical

00:32:11.183 --> 00:32:12.826
country and you drop a physical bomb,

00:32:13.487 --> 00:32:15.588
it's a little bit harder or at least

00:32:15.588 --> 00:32:18.712
– I mean obviously missiles can hit the

00:32:18.732 --> 00:32:19.252
wrong target.

00:32:19.394 --> 00:32:20.494
We've seen that a lot in the last

00:32:20.515 --> 00:32:21.115
twenty-five years.

00:32:21.736 --> 00:32:23.096
But my point being is like,

00:32:23.396 --> 00:32:25.157
it's not like you're flying over one

00:32:25.198 --> 00:32:26.479
country and you drop a bomb and it

00:32:26.499 --> 00:32:28.119
lands in a completely different continent.

00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:29.901
Like, I don't know.

00:32:29.941 --> 00:32:31.061
It just it feels to me like there's

00:32:31.082 --> 00:32:32.021
a lot more room for things to go

00:32:32.061 --> 00:32:32.583
wrong on that.

00:32:32.643 --> 00:32:33.863
But I could be wrong.

00:32:34.083 --> 00:32:34.443
I don't know.

00:32:37.846 --> 00:32:39.185
But speaking about being wrong,

00:32:39.205 --> 00:32:40.366
I think we're going to move on to

00:32:40.406 --> 00:32:41.107
our next stories,

00:32:41.208 --> 00:32:42.808
which we have a few stories about

00:32:42.848 --> 00:32:44.148
companies acting shady,

00:32:44.529 --> 00:32:46.510
starting with surprise, surprise, Amazon.

00:32:47.411 --> 00:32:49.291
And I'm going to let Jordan go ahead

00:32:49.311 --> 00:32:50.073
and take this one away.

00:32:50.990 --> 00:32:51.951
Yeah, let's do that.

00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:54.451
So this story here is Amazon will train

00:32:54.612 --> 00:32:56.992
on Twitch streamers content by default

00:32:57.153 --> 00:32:58.294
unless they opt out.

00:32:58.794 --> 00:33:01.194
So I think we should start by saying,

00:33:01.815 --> 00:33:02.855
just in case you don't know,

00:33:03.316 --> 00:33:04.977
Twitch is owned by Amazon.

00:33:05.696 --> 00:33:07.218
They're basically the same company, right?

00:33:07.597 --> 00:33:09.298
It kind of makes sense, actually, because,

00:33:09.338 --> 00:33:10.140
you know,

00:33:10.220 --> 00:33:13.861
Amazon has such a large presence in the

00:33:14.582 --> 00:33:15.821
hosting space, I guess.

00:33:16.603 --> 00:33:18.384
They have Amazon Web Services, which,

00:33:18.523 --> 00:33:18.763
you know,

00:33:19.344 --> 00:33:20.785
kind of makes sense why they would be

00:33:20.825 --> 00:33:22.286
able to run such a service like this.

00:33:22.786 --> 00:33:26.388
So this is kind of a very controversial

00:33:26.409 --> 00:33:26.729
change.

00:33:26.769 --> 00:33:27.829
I think a lot of streamers are going

00:33:27.849 --> 00:33:29.810
to be disabling this because, you know,

00:33:29.911 --> 00:33:30.471
obviously,

00:33:30.751 --> 00:33:33.093
why would you want your content to be

00:33:33.333 --> 00:33:34.513
used to train AI?

00:33:34.693 --> 00:33:35.494
I'm not really sure.

00:33:36.015 --> 00:33:37.836
It doesn't really benefit you exactly.

00:33:38.737 --> 00:33:39.637
So just, I guess,

00:33:39.837 --> 00:33:40.897
reading a couple of quotes from this

00:33:40.958 --> 00:33:41.499
article here.

00:33:41.878 --> 00:33:43.259
In a stream on the official Twitch

00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:45.080
channel, Twitch head of community,

00:33:45.280 --> 00:33:48.063
Mary Kish and chief product officer,

00:33:48.242 --> 00:33:48.943
Mike Minton,

00:33:49.483 --> 00:33:51.506
addressed a live audience of nearly three

00:33:51.546 --> 00:33:53.207
thousand aggrieved users,

00:33:53.307 --> 00:33:55.749
many of whom were posting anti-AI

00:33:55.808 --> 00:33:56.950
sentiments in the chat.

00:33:57.330 --> 00:33:58.412
Why is it not opt in?

00:33:58.731 --> 00:34:00.032
That's what everyone is spamming in the

00:34:00.073 --> 00:34:00.353
chat.

00:34:00.452 --> 00:34:00.854
I get it.

00:34:00.973 --> 00:34:03.075
Let me opt in versus making me opt

00:34:03.296 --> 00:34:04.236
out, Minton said.

00:34:04.656 --> 00:34:06.298
Well, there's an honest answer.

00:34:06.959 --> 00:34:08.440
If this was opt in,

00:34:08.739 --> 00:34:09.880
nobody would opt in.

00:34:10.041 --> 00:34:11.963
And that's honestly the answer.

00:34:12.202 --> 00:34:14.125
So I think that kind of highlights the

00:34:14.144 --> 00:34:16.025
main issue that we have with this, right?

00:34:16.065 --> 00:34:17.907
Like this sort of thing is

00:34:18.842 --> 00:34:21.025
something that is kind of becoming an

00:34:21.105 --> 00:34:23.547
issue right a lot of these ai companies

00:34:23.628 --> 00:34:25.369
will do this well they'll say you can

00:34:25.429 --> 00:34:27.771
use our services but you have to opt

00:34:27.811 --> 00:34:28.833
out and the opt out is kind of

00:34:28.853 --> 00:34:30.635
hard to see it's not really super obvious

00:34:30.675 --> 00:34:33.737
that it's possible um i think this does

00:34:33.818 --> 00:34:36.501
the same basically the same thing right um

00:34:38.302 --> 00:34:41.364
And quoting again from the article,

00:34:41.384 --> 00:34:42.023
in some cases,

00:34:42.043 --> 00:34:43.603
this created confusion among streamers

00:34:43.943 --> 00:34:45.304
about whether their content had already

00:34:45.324 --> 00:34:46.565
been fed to Amazon without their

00:34:46.585 --> 00:34:46.925
knowledge.

00:34:47.224 --> 00:34:48.864
When one user asked if their videos had

00:34:48.905 --> 00:34:49.925
already been used for training,

00:34:50.025 --> 00:34:50.684
Minton responded,

00:34:51.085 --> 00:34:52.505
I don't actually know the answer to that

00:34:52.545 --> 00:34:55.045
question because I don't know what Amazon

00:34:55.126 --> 00:34:57.527
has done in terms of model training and

00:34:57.567 --> 00:34:59.206
what they've used and not used.

00:34:59.766 --> 00:35:02.307
So obviously that is extremely concerning,

00:35:02.387 --> 00:35:03.668
especially because, you know,

00:35:06.168 --> 00:35:07.710
They should have not been doing that if

00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:08.650
you didn't opt into that.

00:35:09.632 --> 00:35:11.373
I guess they could technically do that

00:35:11.434 --> 00:35:12.574
based on their terms of service,

00:35:12.614 --> 00:35:14.135
but not really great.

00:35:14.536 --> 00:35:16.197
Kish noted that Twitch is not unique in

00:35:16.257 --> 00:35:18.440
its use of user content for AI training.

00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:19.581
Meta, for example,

00:35:19.661 --> 00:35:21.402
uses public content from its platforms to

00:35:21.422 --> 00:35:22.643
train its own AI models,

00:35:23.005 --> 00:35:24.045
meaning that if your Facebook and

00:35:24.085 --> 00:35:25.246
Instagram accounts are public,

00:35:25.367 --> 00:35:27.248
then your data has probably already been

00:35:27.369 --> 00:35:28.789
used for Meta's AI training.

00:35:29.349 --> 00:35:30.391
And if you live in the UK,

00:35:30.431 --> 00:35:31.833
you can opt out of Meta's training

00:35:32.293 --> 00:35:32.612
If not,

00:35:32.672 --> 00:35:34.233
the only way to opt out is to

00:35:34.333 --> 00:35:35.434
use the private setting,

00:35:35.454 --> 00:35:36.976
which isn't feasible for creators who

00:35:36.996 --> 00:35:38.036
monetize their accounts.

00:35:38.757 --> 00:35:40.898
So I guess throwing this back to you,

00:35:40.958 --> 00:35:41.199
Nate,

00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.081
this is like one of these obvious things

00:35:44.101 --> 00:35:46.342
where it's like, why is this opt in?

00:35:46.382 --> 00:35:48.844
Shouldn't this be like, I mean,

00:35:48.884 --> 00:35:49.744
why is this opt out?

00:35:49.804 --> 00:35:50.905
Why isn't this, you know,

00:35:51.126 --> 00:35:51.907
the other way around?

00:35:51.947 --> 00:35:53.688
It doesn't really make a lot of sense.

00:35:54.407 --> 00:35:55.148
What's going on there?

00:35:56.333 --> 00:35:57.034
Yeah, I mean,

00:35:57.054 --> 00:35:59.898
it's exactly like this guy said,

00:35:59.938 --> 00:36:01.599
this Kish dude.

00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.923
They know that most people would not opt

00:36:04.963 --> 00:36:05.083
in.

00:36:05.244 --> 00:36:08.186
And to their very, very tiny defense,

00:36:09.369 --> 00:36:10.789
I don't think he necessarily meant that

00:36:10.849 --> 00:36:11.570
maliciously.

00:36:11.771 --> 00:36:13.532
I think he just meant it's a fact.

00:36:13.934 --> 00:36:15.394
Most people don't change the defaults.

00:36:16.175 --> 00:36:17.817
um most people seem to even forget that

00:36:17.836 --> 00:36:19.818
a lot of their accounts and devices have

00:36:19.858 --> 00:36:22.759
settings uh and most people just don't go

00:36:22.778 --> 00:36:24.059
looking for that kind of stuff they just

00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:25.440
they get a phone or they get an

00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:26.981
account and they just hit the ground and

00:36:27.021 --> 00:36:29.402
start running and you know especially with

00:36:29.422 --> 00:36:30.583
things like this like yeah they'll tweak

00:36:30.603 --> 00:36:32.483
the profile picture and the banner and the

00:36:32.543 --> 00:36:34.224
bio but they're not going to go into

00:36:34.244 --> 00:36:35.605
the privacy settings that's just they

00:36:35.625 --> 00:36:36.385
don't even care about that

00:36:36.905 --> 00:36:39.286
So, yeah, if it was opt-in,

00:36:39.367 --> 00:36:40.987
nobody would opt-in just because people

00:36:41.007 --> 00:36:42.329
never change the default settings.

00:36:42.909 --> 00:36:45.271
But that is also like the malicious side

00:36:45.291 --> 00:36:46.791
of it is they know that nobody changes

00:36:46.831 --> 00:36:47.612
the default settings.

00:36:47.931 --> 00:36:49.632
So if we make it opt-out, most people,

00:36:49.733 --> 00:36:50.753
even when they hear about this,

00:36:50.773 --> 00:36:52.134
they're just going to be like, eh,

00:36:52.494 --> 00:36:53.275
whatever.

00:36:53.795 --> 00:36:55.456
It's too much work to click three things,

00:36:56.157 --> 00:36:57.476
which actually, to be fair,

00:36:57.536 --> 00:37:00.278
I think I saw somebody say somewhere that

00:37:00.278 --> 00:37:02.200
–

00:37:00.418 --> 00:37:01.739
they weren't able to do this on their

00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.121
phone in the mobile app and they had

00:37:03.141 --> 00:37:04.943
to actually like log in on the desktop.

00:37:04.963 --> 00:37:06.463
So they're kind of making this as

00:37:06.543 --> 00:37:07.385
obnoxious as possible,

00:37:07.425 --> 00:37:08.525
although somebody else responded to them

00:37:08.545 --> 00:37:09.867
and said the mobile app isn't designed for

00:37:10.067 --> 00:37:11.427
stream or for creators.

00:37:11.447 --> 00:37:12.608
It's designed for audience and this

00:37:12.628 --> 00:37:14.210
applies to creators.

00:37:14.250 --> 00:37:16.472
So but yeah, I mean,

00:37:16.512 --> 00:37:17.612
that's the simple answer is like people

00:37:17.652 --> 00:37:18.813
don't change the default settings.

00:37:18.833 --> 00:37:19.894
So if they make it opt out,

00:37:19.934 --> 00:37:21.655
most people just never bother to log in

00:37:21.695 --> 00:37:23.398
and and fix it.

00:37:23.438 --> 00:37:28.141
But yeah, I guess another thing is,

00:37:29.523 --> 00:37:29.802
you know,

00:37:31.983 --> 00:37:35.164
is there really anything that, uh,

00:37:35.184 --> 00:37:36.065
people can do that?

00:37:36.246 --> 00:37:37.146
Are there alternatives?

00:37:37.186 --> 00:37:39.007
Like, is there even another platform?

00:37:39.068 --> 00:37:39.829
I feel like, you know,

00:37:39.869 --> 00:37:40.389
what have we got?

00:37:40.429 --> 00:37:41.429
We've got YouTube.

00:37:41.590 --> 00:37:43.492
Maybe I feel like YouTube would also be

00:37:43.532 --> 00:37:45.492
doing kind of some stuff with AI training

00:37:45.532 --> 00:37:46.213
data as well.

00:37:46.293 --> 00:37:46.893
So it's like,

00:37:47.534 --> 00:37:49.215
it almost feels like this is becoming like

00:37:49.235 --> 00:37:50.456
an industry standard thing.

00:37:50.496 --> 00:37:52.157
Like you said, with meta and,

00:37:52.418 --> 00:37:53.699
and all that, what do you,

00:37:53.759 --> 00:37:55.320
how are you feeling about it?

00:37:56.121 --> 00:37:57.882
Yeah, it, it really sucks.

00:37:58.163 --> 00:37:58.282
Um,

00:37:59.873 --> 00:38:01.998
My wife actually sent me a TikTok about

00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:02.740
this the other day.

00:38:02.981 --> 00:38:04.023
That's where she heard about it.

00:38:05.284 --> 00:38:06.626
Oh man, this real quick,

00:38:06.646 --> 00:38:08.067
this announcement was a train wreck.

00:38:08.788 --> 00:38:09.927
The TikTok that she sent me was like

00:38:09.947 --> 00:38:10.309
a person.

00:38:10.389 --> 00:38:10.949
No, for real.

00:38:10.989 --> 00:38:13.411
It was a person like commenting on,

00:38:13.590 --> 00:38:14.351
on all these different,

00:38:14.371 --> 00:38:16.373
the parts that were in here and like

00:38:16.432 --> 00:38:17.934
how amazing it was that they're just like,

00:38:18.074 --> 00:38:18.373
Oh yeah,

00:38:18.414 --> 00:38:20.215
we don't know if they've already trained

00:38:20.275 --> 00:38:20.956
on your data.

00:38:21.215 --> 00:38:23.478
And they didn't mention it in the article,

00:38:23.498 --> 00:38:24.898
but at one point somebody asked them like,

00:38:24.958 --> 00:38:26.260
is the official Twitch channel going to

00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:26.920
opt out of this?

00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:27.760
And the, what's her name?

00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:29.262
The Mary Kish.

00:38:29.342 --> 00:38:29.782
She was like,

00:38:30.862 --> 00:38:31.623
Yeah, I think so.

00:38:31.744 --> 00:38:32.224
Probably.

00:38:32.603 --> 00:38:34.605
And it's just like, wait, what?

00:38:34.965 --> 00:38:37.065
It's opted and you're going to opt out.

00:38:39.146 --> 00:38:40.947
But yeah, it's it's I mean, it's tough.

00:38:41.367 --> 00:38:42.728
Laptop here said your featured link is

00:38:42.748 --> 00:38:43.869
this StreamYard thing.

00:38:44.289 --> 00:38:44.608
But yeah,

00:38:44.628 --> 00:38:46.489
StreamYard only gives you like a hundred

00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:46.969
views.

00:38:47.050 --> 00:38:48.190
And I don't think there's a free tier,

00:38:48.251 --> 00:38:48.490
actually.

00:38:48.510 --> 00:38:49.891
I think we're paying even for this tier.

00:38:50.672 --> 00:38:50.811
Um,

00:38:50.891 --> 00:38:52.434
it only gives you a hundred people and

00:38:53.074 --> 00:38:53.213
it's,

00:38:53.313 --> 00:38:54.735
I feel like the issue is discoverability,

00:38:54.795 --> 00:38:54.976
right?

00:38:55.016 --> 00:38:55.775
Cause like, honestly, yeah,

00:38:55.795 --> 00:38:56.536
there's a ton of options.

00:38:56.556 --> 00:38:57.518
You could stream in discord.

00:38:57.557 --> 00:38:59.880
You could stream in on zoom.

00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:01.541
You could stream in a, you know,

00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:02.742
signal you could street,

00:39:02.762 --> 00:39:04.043
like there's a million other places,

00:39:04.663 --> 00:39:05.003
but yeah,

00:39:05.902 --> 00:39:08.005
The reason people use social media at all,

00:39:08.025 --> 00:39:10.768
the reason we use Twitter and Blue Sky

00:39:10.907 --> 00:39:14.152
and YouTube is the discoverability.

00:39:14.793 --> 00:39:16.494
Like, we're trying to reach new people,

00:39:16.614 --> 00:39:17.856
especially with our message of privacy.

00:39:17.876 --> 00:39:19.257
And when you're a Twitch streamer,

00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:20.940
you're trying to reach new people.

00:39:21.021 --> 00:39:21.161
So...

00:39:22.442 --> 00:39:22.983
I don't know.

00:39:23.123 --> 00:39:24.523
There's so many things working against

00:39:24.543 --> 00:39:25.023
people, right?

00:39:25.043 --> 00:39:26.824
There's, like, the network effect of,

00:39:26.925 --> 00:39:27.726
like, again, yeah,

00:39:27.766 --> 00:39:28.865
you could set up your own PeerTube

00:39:28.885 --> 00:39:30.547
instance and stream off that, but, like,

00:39:30.907 --> 00:39:32.088
who the hell is using PeerTube?

00:39:32.789 --> 00:39:34.449
And then that becomes a self-fulfilling

00:39:34.489 --> 00:39:36.610
prophecy and a feedback loop of, like, oh,

00:39:36.630 --> 00:39:37.672
I'm not going to set up PeerTube because

00:39:37.711 --> 00:39:38.092
nobody's there.

00:39:38.112 --> 00:39:38.192
Well,

00:39:38.211 --> 00:39:40.132
nobody's there because nobody sets up a

00:39:40.152 --> 00:39:40.594
PeerTube.

00:39:40.614 --> 00:39:42.614
And it's just – it's tough.

00:39:42.635 --> 00:39:44.655
There's really no easy ways out, I think,

00:39:44.695 --> 00:39:45.836
especially when we talk about video

00:39:45.856 --> 00:39:46.157
because, like,

00:39:46.197 --> 00:39:48.278
video is –

00:39:47.717 --> 00:39:50.141
so massive and like i guess the nice

00:39:50.161 --> 00:39:51.461
thing about streaming is you don't have to

00:39:51.501 --> 00:39:53.804
keep the old replays um so that helps

00:39:53.885 --> 00:39:56.007
but like youtube for example if you're

00:39:56.027 --> 00:39:57.568
gonna make like a pure tube channel with

00:39:57.608 --> 00:39:59.952
all your youtube videos like video storage

00:40:00.032 --> 00:40:01.813
adds up quick and gets really expensive

00:40:01.853 --> 00:40:06.778
really fast so it's uh it's not great

00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:08.981
yeah laptop it's called the network effect

00:40:09.242 --> 00:40:09.362
so

00:40:10.753 --> 00:40:11.173
Yeah, all right.

00:40:11.255 --> 00:40:13.416
I guess we can dive into this forum

00:40:13.516 --> 00:40:16.099
post here, which you can grab,

00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:17.440
because I know you definitely had some

00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:18.380
thoughts about this one.

00:40:20.362 --> 00:40:21.384
Yeah, all right.

00:40:21.543 --> 00:40:23.606
So one of our forum updates we're going

00:40:23.626 --> 00:40:28.670
to focus on here is about ProtonVPN.

00:40:31.143 --> 00:40:33.987
ProtonVPN got accused this week of running

00:40:34.047 --> 00:40:35.610
price sensitivity testing,

00:40:35.751 --> 00:40:38.775
AKA AB testing on their customers.

00:40:38.976 --> 00:40:41.679
And the reason that this particularly

00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:42.820
became an, well, I mean,

00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:44.103
there's a couple layers to this, right?

00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:46.940
Well, let me just read.

00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:47.161
Okay,

00:40:47.201 --> 00:40:49.121
I'll read two posts here that kind of

00:40:49.141 --> 00:40:49.541
sum this up.

00:40:49.983 --> 00:40:51.324
So the person who originally posted this

00:40:51.364 --> 00:40:52.704
said, since Friday, August seven,

00:40:52.724 --> 00:40:53.385
twenty twenty six.

00:40:53.405 --> 00:40:55.786
So we saw this actually after we streamed,

00:40:55.827 --> 00:40:58.648
I think multiple Redditors have reported

00:40:58.668 --> 00:41:00.010
that they are seeing different prices for

00:41:00.030 --> 00:41:01.911
Proton VPN plus suggesting that Proton is

00:41:01.971 --> 00:41:03.413
running price sensitivity testing on their

00:41:03.452 --> 00:41:03.853
customers.

00:41:04.253 --> 00:41:05.253
also called AB testing.

00:41:05.273 --> 00:41:06.534
And they've got some screenshots here.

00:41:06.996 --> 00:41:08.376
They said proton is formally denied it.

00:41:08.396 --> 00:41:09.458
They've got a screenshot of that.

00:41:09.478 --> 00:41:10.619
And they said, but when,

00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:12.201
when scribe is calling them out on Twitter

00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:13.682
for lying by providing evidence.

00:41:13.702 --> 00:41:15.304
And there's a screenshot of when scribes

00:41:15.344 --> 00:41:16.606
and they linked to all this stuff too.

00:41:17.085 --> 00:41:17.967
Um,

00:41:18.007 --> 00:41:19.469
so this turned into a whole discussion.

00:41:20.068 --> 00:41:22.652
Apparently you can actually see, uh,

00:41:24.952 --> 00:41:25.331
what is it?

00:41:25.411 --> 00:41:26.952
I think this came from a wind scribes

00:41:26.992 --> 00:41:27.293
tweet.

00:41:27.614 --> 00:41:29.394
You can actually see in the code where

00:41:29.434 --> 00:41:30.956
it says there's like an AB test.

00:41:31.155 --> 00:41:32.717
And if you're getting content a or content

00:41:32.757 --> 00:41:36.318
B, um, and, uh,

00:41:36.338 --> 00:41:37.559
we did pin at the top of the

00:41:37.579 --> 00:41:39.201
post here, protons response.

00:41:39.221 --> 00:41:40.362
Um,

00:41:40.402 --> 00:41:42.302
so this came from somebody on Reddit who

00:41:42.342 --> 00:41:45.445
I believe works at proton and says, uh,

00:41:46.431 --> 00:41:48.072
They said this topic went very strange,

00:41:48.112 --> 00:41:48.574
very fast.

00:41:48.594 --> 00:41:49.755
So let me expand and clarify.

00:41:50.074 --> 00:41:51.617
Proton VPN is nine ninety nine a month

00:41:51.637 --> 00:41:52.659
or eighty three eighty eight a year.

00:41:52.918 --> 00:41:54.240
We used to have an introductory offer for

00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:55.802
two years at four forty nine per month.

00:41:56.023 --> 00:41:57.143
There's been a two year intro price of

00:41:57.184 --> 00:41:57.965
two ninety nine per month.

00:41:57.985 --> 00:41:59.025
It has been running for a while on

00:41:59.065 --> 00:42:00.047
some back to back campaigns.

00:42:00.387 --> 00:42:01.869
That price ended in July and since then

00:42:01.889 --> 00:42:03.030
it has been three forty nine a month.

00:42:04.132 --> 00:42:06.012
um they say that there were some like

00:42:06.112 --> 00:42:07.452
legitimate pricing errors in the

00:42:07.472 --> 00:42:10.474
screenshots but they said uh at the end

00:42:10.494 --> 00:42:12.175
of a long-standing sale period we often

00:42:12.195 --> 00:42:13.454
try an a b run of the old

00:42:13.474 --> 00:42:14.876
and new pricing on the website during the

00:42:14.896 --> 00:42:16.775
transition to see if anything has changed

00:42:17.277 --> 00:42:18.516
as explained to answer the speculation

00:42:18.536 --> 00:42:20.057
already and as confirmed by others who

00:42:20.117 --> 00:42:21.597
independently checked it there is no

00:42:21.777 --> 00:42:23.739
adaptive pricing as in it does not vary

00:42:23.759 --> 00:42:26.019
by browser operating system etc and it is

00:42:26.139 --> 00:42:27.280
one hundred percent randomized

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:28.740
So for the past several days,

00:42:28.780 --> 00:42:29.822
some people will still have seen the

00:42:29.922 --> 00:42:31.362
older, cheaper two ninety nine price.

00:42:31.943 --> 00:42:33.585
I had been of the impression that the

00:42:33.684 --> 00:42:33.905
A.B.

00:42:33.925 --> 00:42:35.266
was already concluded and there must have

00:42:35.286 --> 00:42:36.327
been some cashing going on.

00:42:36.628 --> 00:42:37.969
But it's actually due to end on Monday

00:42:38.009 --> 00:42:39.349
when one hundred percent of people should

00:42:39.369 --> 00:42:40.550
see the three forty nine price.

00:42:42.112 --> 00:42:43.313
He says there's no denial that we were

00:42:43.353 --> 00:42:43.893
doing an A.B.

00:42:43.914 --> 00:42:44.614
evaluation.

00:42:46.396 --> 00:42:47.097
And then.

00:42:47.536 --> 00:42:47.896
Yeah.

00:42:47.936 --> 00:42:49.277
So basically they're saying, like, yes,

00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:50.179
we were.

00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:52.101
Doing.

00:42:54.021 --> 00:42:54.802
A, B testing,

00:42:54.902 --> 00:42:58.302
but we weren't doing it based on user.

00:42:58.362 --> 00:42:59.204
It was completely random.

00:42:59.304 --> 00:43:01.943
I could go to their website right now.

00:43:02.465 --> 00:43:03.565
Allegedly, the test should be over.

00:43:03.864 --> 00:43:04.505
But theoretically,

00:43:04.525 --> 00:43:05.204
if the test was running,

00:43:05.344 --> 00:43:06.505
I could go to their website right now

00:43:06.626 --> 00:43:07.565
and see one test.

00:43:08.005 --> 00:43:09.065
And then if I close my browser and

00:43:09.106 --> 00:43:09.987
clear my cookies or whatever,

00:43:10.007 --> 00:43:11.507
and I come back later the same day,

00:43:11.927 --> 00:43:13.088
I might see a different test.

00:43:13.268 --> 00:43:13.447
So...

00:43:14.766 --> 00:43:17.469
I think, I mean, personally,

00:43:17.568 --> 00:43:19.411
I have a lot of thoughts about this,

00:43:19.431 --> 00:43:19.670
yeah.

00:43:19.690 --> 00:43:20.070
But I mean,

00:43:21.112 --> 00:43:22.753
I think I'll throw this one to Jordan

00:43:23.014 --> 00:43:24.394
since you've been kind of throwing some

00:43:24.434 --> 00:43:25.936
questions my way.

00:43:26.396 --> 00:43:28.938
Do you think there's any concerns over

00:43:28.978 --> 00:43:29.539
this kind of stuff,

00:43:29.619 --> 00:43:30.440
even if it's randomized?

00:43:30.460 --> 00:43:31.481
Like if they're not tracking you and

00:43:31.501 --> 00:43:33.382
they're not doing it based on your data,

00:43:33.402 --> 00:43:34.503
because usually that's what companies try

00:43:34.543 --> 00:43:34.983
to do, right?

00:43:35.003 --> 00:43:36.264
They try to, the surveillance pricing,

00:43:36.304 --> 00:43:37.885
like we think you'd be willing to pay

00:43:37.905 --> 00:43:38.445
a little bit more,

00:43:38.485 --> 00:43:39.507
so we're going to give you the higher

00:43:39.547 --> 00:43:39.847
price.

00:43:39.887 --> 00:43:41.528
But if it's completely randomized,

00:43:41.548 --> 00:43:42.469
do you still think that's kind of a

00:43:42.489 --> 00:43:42.670
problem?

00:43:47.827 --> 00:43:50.228
I think that this is one of those

00:43:50.248 --> 00:43:51.188
things where it's like,

00:43:51.648 --> 00:43:53.570
obviously this is because we know now that

00:43:53.610 --> 00:43:55.550
this wasn't based on people's information.

00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:59.231
This is not a privacy issue per se.

00:44:00.170 --> 00:44:01.492
This is one of these things where it's

00:44:01.512 --> 00:44:03.992
like, is this a good business practice?

00:44:04.532 --> 00:44:05.333
Is this ethical?

00:44:05.652 --> 00:44:08.273
Is this something that we want a company

00:44:08.313 --> 00:44:09.313
like this to be doing?

00:44:09.434 --> 00:44:11.034
Is this a good practice that they should

00:44:11.054 --> 00:44:11.414
be doing?

00:44:12.193 --> 00:44:14.355
And I think, you know,

00:44:15.778 --> 00:44:17.199
not to pull out the slippery slope

00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:19.422
argument, but once you start,

00:44:19.862 --> 00:44:22.983
we've definitely seen Proton adopting more

00:44:23.083 --> 00:44:24.744
mainstream marketing tactics,

00:44:24.824 --> 00:44:25.425
for instance,

00:44:25.525 --> 00:44:28.427
like running Black Friday sales,

00:44:28.487 --> 00:44:31.349
running advertising campaigns to get

00:44:31.389 --> 00:44:34.871
people to sign up for discounted plans and

00:44:34.891 --> 00:44:35.512
stuff like that.

00:44:35.632 --> 00:44:37.793
And people have been very vocal in the

00:44:37.813 --> 00:44:39.775
community about how they don't like this,

00:44:40.476 --> 00:44:42.657
like having banners in their inbox,

00:44:42.757 --> 00:44:43.978
especially if they're like a paying

00:44:44.018 --> 00:44:44.498
customer.

00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:45.139
Some people have,

00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:47.679
very strong feelings about that.

00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:53.021
I think it's tricky because Proton is one

00:44:53.041 --> 00:44:55.342
of those companies where they make all

00:44:55.362 --> 00:44:56.943
their money from people buying

00:44:57.003 --> 00:44:57.742
subscriptions.

00:44:57.943 --> 00:44:59.563
And there are so many people that don't

00:44:59.603 --> 00:45:02.545
buy subscriptions and it's kind of tricky

00:45:02.565 --> 00:45:04.865
for them to be able to, you know,

00:45:05.706 --> 00:45:07.307
stay afloat if they don't have that

00:45:07.427 --> 00:45:09.068
constant stream of subscribers.

00:45:09.148 --> 00:45:12.452
But I think the fact that they were

00:45:13.253 --> 00:45:13.853
using, you know,

00:45:14.094 --> 00:45:17.056
some sort of AB testing is obviously it's

00:45:17.137 --> 00:45:18.677
not a privacy concern,

00:45:18.717 --> 00:45:20.019
but it is one of these things where

00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:20.420
it's like,

00:45:22.045 --> 00:45:23.204
This feels a little shady.

00:45:23.364 --> 00:45:25.106
It's one of these things that we don't

00:45:25.126 --> 00:45:28.027
really like when it comes to marketing

00:45:28.126 --> 00:45:28.827
tactics.

00:45:29.447 --> 00:45:34.528
I think the most important thing here is

00:45:34.568 --> 00:45:36.809
to not jump to immediate conclusions and

00:45:36.829 --> 00:45:38.931
assume that Proton was being malicious in

00:45:38.951 --> 00:45:39.630
this aspect.

00:45:39.710 --> 00:45:42.911
I think Jonah had an incredible response

00:45:42.972 --> 00:45:43.871
on this thread, by the way,

00:45:44.351 --> 00:45:45.172
if you haven't read that.

00:45:47.478 --> 00:45:49.139
His kind of take was A-B testing

00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:52.443
objectively isn't adaptive slash dynamic

00:45:52.483 --> 00:45:54.706
pricing nor price discrimination.

00:45:54.887 --> 00:45:57.128
So this is like basically what he said

00:45:57.188 --> 00:45:59.271
is it's basically effectively the same as

00:45:59.311 --> 00:46:01.614
a targeted or limited time sale.

00:46:02.255 --> 00:46:02.494
So...

00:46:06.126 --> 00:46:08.447
you know, it's interesting.

00:46:08.568 --> 00:46:10.108
I think Jonah had probably the most

00:46:10.148 --> 00:46:11.750
level-headed response in that thread.

00:46:11.891 --> 00:46:14.092
I think it's important to be a little

00:46:14.112 --> 00:46:17.293
bit more discerning and not to jump to

00:46:17.653 --> 00:46:19.355
conclusions immediately because this

00:46:19.414 --> 00:46:21.836
wasn't as big of an issue as I

00:46:21.876 --> 00:46:23.056
think people are making it out to be.

00:46:23.458 --> 00:46:24.018
Personally,

00:46:24.157 --> 00:46:25.378
I am not really a big fan of

00:46:25.498 --> 00:46:27.980
Proton's whole marketing strategy when

00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:29.440
they come to, you know,

00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:31.541
promoting their products and their

00:46:31.601 --> 00:46:32.023
pricing.

00:46:32.922 --> 00:46:35.065
I think it's a little rough to be

00:46:35.244 --> 00:46:35.664
paying

00:46:37.443 --> 00:46:38.802
I was on the visionary plan,

00:46:38.963 --> 00:46:41.744
but paying for the visionary plan,

00:46:41.824 --> 00:46:43.905
still not getting everything in the proton

00:46:43.945 --> 00:46:44.224
suite.

00:46:44.264 --> 00:46:45.286
And I still, you know,

00:46:46.206 --> 00:46:48.206
had some things that weren't included.

00:46:48.346 --> 00:46:49.766
But I think it would also be kind

00:46:49.806 --> 00:46:50.907
of annoying if, you know,

00:46:50.947 --> 00:46:52.208
you're on the unlimited plan,

00:46:52.628 --> 00:46:54.909
which is like two hundred bucks every two

00:46:54.949 --> 00:46:55.548
years or whatever.

00:46:56.128 --> 00:46:57.208
And, you know,

00:46:57.228 --> 00:46:58.610
you're getting banners telling you to

00:46:58.670 --> 00:46:59.829
upgrade and stuff like that.

00:46:59.889 --> 00:47:01.331
I can see why some people might have

00:47:01.391 --> 00:47:02.510
issues with that.

00:47:03.492 --> 00:47:04.452
this sort of tactics,

00:47:04.512 --> 00:47:06.934
but at the end of the day,

00:47:06.974 --> 00:47:08.697
it doesn't compromise the privacy of the

00:47:08.737 --> 00:47:09.117
product.

00:47:09.217 --> 00:47:11.679
So it's not a huge concern from that

00:47:11.778 --> 00:47:12.199
aspect.

00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:12.619
So I don't,

00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:14.121
I'm not sure if it really matters that

00:47:14.181 --> 00:47:14.461
much.

00:47:16.262 --> 00:47:17.304
How do you feel about it?

00:47:17.344 --> 00:47:18.585
Are you kind of on the fence or

00:47:18.606 --> 00:47:20.047
are you also kind of not a fan?

00:47:21.947 --> 00:47:22.088
I mean,

00:47:22.128 --> 00:47:23.190
I agree with you with the marketing.

00:47:23.250 --> 00:47:25.434
Like I pay for the duo plan for

00:47:25.454 --> 00:47:26.036
me and my wife.

00:47:26.155 --> 00:47:26.436
And yeah,

00:47:26.476 --> 00:47:27.980
we still get emails occasionally about

00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:30.264
like, Oh, upgrade to the family plan.

00:47:30.304 --> 00:47:31.126
And it's like, have what?

00:47:31.146 --> 00:47:32.608
Just four accounts sitting around doing

00:47:32.668 --> 00:47:32.989
nothing.

00:47:33.070 --> 00:47:33.329
Like,

00:47:34.112 --> 00:47:35.434
We don't know anybody that's willing to

00:47:35.474 --> 00:47:36.253
take us up on it, man.

00:47:36.293 --> 00:47:36.653
I'm sorry.

00:47:37.054 --> 00:47:38.795
But yeah, I agree with you.

00:47:38.815 --> 00:47:39.175
I don't know.

00:47:39.574 --> 00:47:41.576
I think I think I'm with Jonah.

00:47:41.615 --> 00:47:42.677
Yeah, I forgot about that response.

00:47:42.697 --> 00:47:43.597
That is a really good response.

00:47:43.617 --> 00:47:43.896
But yeah,

00:47:43.916 --> 00:47:46.498
it's like it's it's if it's completely

00:47:46.557 --> 00:47:46.938
random,

00:47:47.018 --> 00:47:49.599
if it's not profiling you based on browser

00:47:49.659 --> 00:47:51.139
or location or any of that kind of

00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.900
stuff, in my opinion, I think that's fine.

00:47:54.081 --> 00:47:55.161
I think it's the same as a sale.

00:47:56.001 --> 00:47:56.561
Um,

00:47:56.641 --> 00:47:59.242
as long as it's not targeting specific

00:47:59.282 --> 00:47:59.704
people.

00:47:59.824 --> 00:48:02.324
And even if it's not targeting Jordan and

00:48:02.425 --> 00:48:02.945
Nate, you know,

00:48:02.965 --> 00:48:04.905
if it's targeting brave users or Mac

00:48:05.025 --> 00:48:06.085
users, or cause I,

00:48:06.146 --> 00:48:07.827
I think airlines do that or somebody does

00:48:07.867 --> 00:48:07.987
that.

00:48:08.007 --> 00:48:08.306
They're like,

00:48:08.327 --> 00:48:09.246
if they detect you're on a Mac,

00:48:09.266 --> 00:48:11.527
they'll like raise the prices a little bit

00:48:11.588 --> 00:48:11.867
online.

00:48:11.907 --> 00:48:13.108
Cause they're like, Oh, you're on a Mac.

00:48:13.148 --> 00:48:14.208
Clearly you must have money.

00:48:14.228 --> 00:48:14.730
And it's like,

00:48:15.409 --> 00:48:16.329
or maybe it was a gift.

00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:17.570
Maybe I got it refurbished.

00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:19.110
Like maybe I got it on a student

00:48:19.130 --> 00:48:20.311
discount when I was in college.

00:48:20.411 --> 00:48:21.532
Like, come on, man.

00:48:21.572 --> 00:48:22.333
That's, that's crazy.

00:48:22.393 --> 00:48:23.313
So, um,

00:48:23.492 --> 00:48:25.373
yeah i i don't personally mind as long

00:48:25.393 --> 00:48:27.735
as it's not actually based on any real

00:48:27.755 --> 00:48:30.677
data and if it's totally randomized um i'm

00:48:30.697 --> 00:48:33.179
a little disappointed to see wind scribe

00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:34.599
kind of jump on this and attack other

00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:36.641
privacy i i really don't like seeing

00:48:36.681 --> 00:48:38.561
privacy projects attack other privacy

00:48:38.601 --> 00:48:42.003
projects because to me it feels very

00:48:42.103 --> 00:48:46.467
self-defeating like we're all the example

00:48:46.507 --> 00:48:47.487
i like to put it in is like

00:48:47.547 --> 00:48:49.007
if we talk about like putting it in

00:48:49.228 --> 00:48:50.329
terms of real life security

00:48:51.826 --> 00:48:53.226
Everybody shuts their door,

00:48:53.447 --> 00:48:55.306
locks their door when they leave their

00:48:55.327 --> 00:48:55.827
house, right?

00:48:55.867 --> 00:48:56.547
If you leave your house,

00:48:56.567 --> 00:48:57.228
you lock your door.

00:48:57.867 --> 00:48:58.327
And yes,

00:48:58.367 --> 00:48:59.708
that's inconvenient when you come home

00:48:59.728 --> 00:49:00.889
with an armful of groceries and you have

00:49:00.909 --> 00:49:01.969
to fumble with the key and unlock the

00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:02.208
door.

00:49:02.568 --> 00:49:04.070
But we all agree, like, why not?

00:49:04.269 --> 00:49:05.849
Like, it's low cost.

00:49:05.909 --> 00:49:07.351
It's very relatively low effort.

00:49:07.471 --> 00:49:09.231
Like, it's not as convenient,

00:49:09.291 --> 00:49:11.072
but it's safer to deter somebody.

00:49:12.092 --> 00:49:13.672
And in the digital world,

00:49:13.733 --> 00:49:15.494
most people are basically like leaving the

00:49:15.514 --> 00:49:17.554
door wide open, unlocked,

00:49:18.034 --> 00:49:19.675
opening all the windows and then hanging a

00:49:19.715 --> 00:49:21.217
sign in the front yard that says gone

00:49:21.237 --> 00:49:22.217
to Dubai for two weeks.

00:49:22.277 --> 00:49:24.858
Like, and for some reason, you know,

00:49:24.918 --> 00:49:26.018
for some reason we're busy like

00:49:26.059 --> 00:49:27.000
complaining about, Oh,

00:49:27.059 --> 00:49:28.300
you ran a marketing campaign.

00:49:28.340 --> 00:49:29.481
And it's like, dude,

00:49:29.740 --> 00:49:31.202
we're all trying to get people on the

00:49:31.222 --> 00:49:33.262
same, like at least me, we're like,

00:49:33.282 --> 00:49:34.403
we're just trying to get people to like

00:49:34.563 --> 00:49:36.525
care at all to like shut the door.

00:49:37.184 --> 00:49:38.186
And I don't know.

00:49:38.246 --> 00:49:39.306
I just don't like seeing privacy

00:49:39.346 --> 00:49:40.286
companies, uh,

00:49:40.527 --> 00:49:41.628
attack each other like that.

00:49:42.489 --> 00:49:43.590
If you want to attack the non-privacy

00:49:43.610 --> 00:49:43.831
companies,

00:49:43.851 --> 00:49:45.512
if you want to attack WhatsApp and stuff

00:49:45.532 --> 00:49:46.514
like that, like go for it.

00:49:46.574 --> 00:49:46.753
But

00:49:47.773 --> 00:49:48.432
I don't know.

00:49:48.452 --> 00:49:49.733
That was in poor taste, in my opinion.

00:49:49.753 --> 00:49:50.934
But I digress.

00:49:51.175 --> 00:49:51.635
Yeah,

00:49:51.715 --> 00:49:53.556
I think it'd be better if people were

00:49:53.637 --> 00:49:56.358
using Proton.

00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:57.539
Then they'll be like, oh,

00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:58.579
I don't want to use Proton.

00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:00.181
Their marketing is so bad.

00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:01.481
I'm going to go back to Gmail.

00:50:01.822 --> 00:50:02.643
And it's like, well,

00:50:02.663 --> 00:50:05.565
that's just not a good idea.

00:50:06.065 --> 00:50:06.644
It doesn't work.

00:50:07.706 --> 00:50:08.365
So I don't know.

00:50:08.425 --> 00:50:10.847
I do think that it's important to hold

00:50:10.887 --> 00:50:12.028
these companies accountable,

00:50:12.068 --> 00:50:15.311
but also it is a little disappointing and

00:50:15.411 --> 00:50:16.472
unprofessional when we see

00:50:17.375 --> 00:50:19.137
like these organizations kind of taking

00:50:19.177 --> 00:50:20.217
pot shots at each other.

00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.079
I am not a fan,

00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:25.983
but obviously that's up to these

00:50:26.083 --> 00:50:28.425
organizations to work out in their

00:50:28.465 --> 00:50:30.306
marketing and public image.

00:50:32.208 --> 00:50:34.590
And it really does not to linger on

00:50:34.630 --> 00:50:35.170
it too long,

00:50:35.190 --> 00:50:37.132
but what ends up happening is for people

00:50:37.193 --> 00:50:37.353
who...

00:50:38.467 --> 00:50:39.507
especially if they're on their own and

00:50:39.527 --> 00:50:40.527
they don't know who to trust,

00:50:40.889 --> 00:50:41.768
they end up, like you said,

00:50:41.789 --> 00:50:43.210
just quitting and going back because if

00:50:43.329 --> 00:50:44.851
everything's like, oh,

00:50:45.211 --> 00:50:46.853
don't use Proton because it's got this

00:50:46.893 --> 00:50:47.672
minor thing wrong with it.

00:50:47.713 --> 00:50:49.014
Don't use Mulvad because of this.

00:50:49.094 --> 00:50:50.494
Don't use Windscribe because of it.

00:50:50.554 --> 00:50:51.976
Like eventually they hit a point where,

00:50:51.996 --> 00:50:52.697
like you said, they're just like,

00:50:52.737 --> 00:50:53.456
screw it, I quit.

00:50:53.577 --> 00:50:54.557
I'm just going back to what I was

00:50:54.597 --> 00:50:56.438
doing because every time I use something,

00:50:56.478 --> 00:50:57.739
somebody comes along and tells me that

00:50:57.780 --> 00:50:58.880
sucks and I shouldn't be using it.

00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:00.342
And it's just,

00:51:00.422 --> 00:51:01.802
especially without knowing their threat

00:51:01.822 --> 00:51:02.103
model.

00:51:02.583 --> 00:51:03.583
And it's one of those things where like,

00:51:03.603 --> 00:51:04.864
if they don't have somebody that they can

00:51:04.905 --> 00:51:06.105
go to, like I have friends and family,

00:51:06.125 --> 00:51:07.065
they hit me up all the time and

00:51:07.085 --> 00:51:07.827
they're like, hey,

00:51:08.567 --> 00:51:09.887
are iPhones really that private?

00:51:09.947 --> 00:51:10.407
And it's like, well,

00:51:10.427 --> 00:51:11.548
I know this person is never going to

00:51:11.608 --> 00:51:12.108
use graphene.

00:51:12.548 --> 00:51:13.269
So honestly, yes,

00:51:13.309 --> 00:51:14.670
I'd rather you buy an iPhone instead of

00:51:14.690 --> 00:51:16.452
like a crappy LG phone or something.

00:51:16.492 --> 00:51:19.213
And it's just, people don't have like, if,

00:51:19.313 --> 00:51:20.273
if you make it too hard,

00:51:20.293 --> 00:51:21.034
they're just going to give up.

00:51:21.134 --> 00:51:22.175
And yeah, it's,

00:51:22.255 --> 00:51:24.436
it's not cool to see that happening in

00:51:24.456 --> 00:51:24.836
the space.

00:51:25.356 --> 00:51:25.717
I digress.

00:51:25.777 --> 00:51:28.239
I'm getting off topic, but yeah.

00:51:28.259 --> 00:51:28.978
So that was the thing.

00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:30.039
And, uh,

00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:31.440
just remember not to jump to conclusions

00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:35.043
and, um, uh, uh,

00:51:36.297 --> 00:51:36.896
another company,

00:51:36.956 --> 00:51:38.297
it was another company laptop did another

00:51:38.336 --> 00:51:39.557
company attack proton or a customer.

00:51:39.597 --> 00:51:41.097
It was wind scribe, uh,

00:51:41.157 --> 00:51:43.778
picked up this story and, um,

00:51:43.818 --> 00:51:45.338
basically called out proton and said, no,

00:51:45.579 --> 00:51:46.599
you are doing AB tests.

00:51:46.619 --> 00:51:47.320
Here's the code.

00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:48.840
But again, it's, you know,

00:51:48.920 --> 00:51:50.340
it wasn't adaptive pricing.

00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.840
That's which you can still say you don't

00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:53.501
like AB tests.

00:51:53.521 --> 00:51:53.920
That's fine.

00:51:53.940 --> 00:51:55.300
I'm not telling you not to say that,

00:51:55.340 --> 00:51:56.402
but I just want to make that clear

00:51:56.422 --> 00:51:58.202
that like they weren't tracking people

00:51:58.242 --> 00:51:59.782
based on browser or location or anything

00:51:59.822 --> 00:52:00.181
like that.

00:52:00.563 --> 00:52:01.983
It was just randomized what price you saw,

00:52:02.003 --> 00:52:02.163
but.

00:52:03.985 --> 00:52:04.485
I digress.

00:52:05.646 --> 00:52:05.847
With that,

00:52:05.867 --> 00:52:08.148
we're going to jump into a story about

00:52:08.409 --> 00:52:11.152
Mozilla,

00:52:11.612 --> 00:52:18.358
who had to issue new GPG keys following

00:52:18.518 --> 00:52:21.601
an exposure, which is never fun.

00:52:23.063 --> 00:52:24.284
That always sucks.

00:52:26.586 --> 00:52:26.887
Let's see,

00:52:27.007 --> 00:52:28.349
Mozilla announced on Monday that it had

00:52:28.409 --> 00:52:31.012
issued a new GPG signing subkey used for

00:52:31.052 --> 00:52:32.994
some Firefox and Thunderbird artifacts

00:52:33.054 --> 00:52:34.416
after the previous key was accidentally

00:52:34.436 --> 00:52:36.538
exposed in a GitHub repository.

00:52:38.621 --> 00:52:40.842
The exposed key was used to sign Firefox

00:52:40.862 --> 00:52:43.182
and Thunderbird artifacts,

00:52:43.523 --> 00:52:45.324
such as Linux tarballs, RPM packages,

00:52:45.384 --> 00:52:46.224
and checksum files.

00:52:46.565 --> 00:52:48.405
An unencrypted copy was inadvertently

00:52:48.445 --> 00:52:49.945
committed to a GitHub repo,

00:52:50.266 --> 00:52:52.146
but it was a private repository accessible

00:52:52.226 --> 00:52:53.387
only to a small group of Mozilla

00:52:53.407 --> 00:52:55.027
developers who already had access to the

00:52:55.047 --> 00:52:55.949
key via other means.

00:52:56.648 --> 00:52:58.909
Mozilla said that our review of available

00:52:58.989 --> 00:53:00.351
audit records found no evidence the key

00:53:00.371 --> 00:53:01.871
was accessed by an unauthorized party.

00:53:02.351 --> 00:53:02.851
Nevertheless,

00:53:02.891 --> 00:53:04.733
they decided to revoke the exposed key and

00:53:04.793 --> 00:53:05.492
issue a new one.

00:53:06.092 --> 00:53:06.733
And in addition,

00:53:06.773 --> 00:53:08.293
they said that they had added protections

00:53:08.313 --> 00:53:09.853
to prevent similar incidents in the

00:53:09.873 --> 00:53:10.233
future.

00:53:11.135 --> 00:53:13.094
They do say that most users do not

00:53:13.135 --> 00:53:14.155
need to take any action.

00:53:14.576 --> 00:53:16.675
Users who manually verify GPG signatures

00:53:16.695 --> 00:53:18.077
will have to import the new key and

00:53:18.137 --> 00:53:18.916
revoke the old one.

00:53:19.436 --> 00:53:20.056
And in addition,

00:53:20.097 --> 00:53:21.898
those who use Firefox RPM packages may

00:53:21.918 --> 00:53:22.878
need to take some steps,

00:53:24.358 --> 00:53:26.079
which that might include me because I'm a

00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:27.778
cubes user and everything's based on

00:53:27.818 --> 00:53:28.199
Fedora.

00:53:28.278 --> 00:53:29.800
So I should click that link.

00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.001
And Mozilla has shared detailed

00:53:32.041 --> 00:53:32.940
instructions right there.

00:53:33.949 --> 00:53:39.472
Um, so yeah, I think, uh, um,

00:53:39.532 --> 00:53:40.534
I will say this is a little bit

00:53:40.614 --> 00:53:42.614
of a disappointing lack of transparency in

00:53:42.655 --> 00:53:43.094
my opinion.

00:53:43.114 --> 00:53:43.815
Um,

00:53:44.155 --> 00:53:45.657
it sucks that they didn't really seem to

00:53:45.697 --> 00:53:48.077
give a whole lot of details about how

00:53:48.097 --> 00:53:48.759
did this happen?

00:53:48.878 --> 00:53:50.519
How long was the key exposed?

00:53:50.860 --> 00:53:51.400
Um,

00:53:51.501 --> 00:53:53.702
I don't remember if they gave details

00:53:53.722 --> 00:53:55.563
about what they did to prevent this from

00:53:55.603 --> 00:53:56.264
happening again.

00:53:56.284 --> 00:53:56.344
Um,

00:53:57.356 --> 00:53:58.657
Um, but I,

00:53:58.677 --> 00:53:59.639
I guess I will give them a lot

00:53:59.659 --> 00:54:01.501
of credit for like coming forward with it

00:54:01.862 --> 00:54:02.682
and being proactive.

00:54:02.742 --> 00:54:03.905
I mean, it was like a private repo,

00:54:03.945 --> 00:54:04.164
right?

00:54:04.184 --> 00:54:06.467
So in theory, there shouldn't be any risk,

00:54:06.789 --> 00:54:09.112
but still just being like, uh,

00:54:09.192 --> 00:54:10.574
let's just be safe and rotate it.

00:54:10.594 --> 00:54:13.318
Like I do respect that, but, um,

00:54:14.523 --> 00:54:17.626
Jordan, to throw this back to you,

00:54:18.427 --> 00:54:20.347
I think the first question that I think

00:54:20.367 --> 00:54:21.610
a lot of people would have is,

00:54:21.650 --> 00:54:22.871
do you think this is a reason for

00:54:22.911 --> 00:54:25.793
people to reconsider using Firefox?

00:54:25.873 --> 00:54:27.855
Is this like an oh crap moment that

00:54:27.875 --> 00:54:29.195
shows negligence or anything,

00:54:29.215 --> 00:54:30.077
or do you think this is just kind

00:54:30.097 --> 00:54:30.838
of like things happen?

00:54:32.244 --> 00:54:34.987
I think we've got to give Firefox a

00:54:35.047 --> 00:54:37.967
decent amount of props here because they

00:54:38.007 --> 00:54:39.228
did exactly the right thing.

00:54:39.449 --> 00:54:40.210
There was a mistake.

00:54:40.750 --> 00:54:41.670
Mistakes do happen.

00:54:42.010 --> 00:54:45.552
There's always going to be mistakes,

00:54:45.612 --> 00:54:46.914
but it's the way that they handled it,

00:54:46.934 --> 00:54:48.434
which I think is the most important part,

00:54:48.474 --> 00:54:49.215
which, like you said,

00:54:50.054 --> 00:54:52.376
immediately rotating that GPG key is the

00:54:52.416 --> 00:54:53.217
most important part.

00:54:53.376 --> 00:54:54.217
And they did that.

00:54:54.418 --> 00:54:55.338
They notified everyone.

00:54:55.998 --> 00:54:57.280
They did exactly what they should have

00:54:57.739 --> 00:54:58.699
done in that situation.

00:54:59.260 --> 00:55:00.822
If, for instance, we found...

00:55:01.521 --> 00:55:05.485
that they did leak that key and then

00:55:05.684 --> 00:55:07.505
they just decided to do nothing about it,

00:55:07.746 --> 00:55:09.467
then that's where we would start having

00:55:09.547 --> 00:55:11.768
issues where I would be like, OK,

00:55:12.130 --> 00:55:14.190
maybe you should probably not use Firefox

00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:15.612
because they seem a little negligent.

00:55:16.253 --> 00:55:18.414
But, you know, mistakes happen.

00:55:18.853 --> 00:55:19.574
They fixed it.

00:55:20.295 --> 00:55:22.056
They've done everything in their control

00:55:22.097 --> 00:55:23.177
to notify everyone.

00:55:23.757 --> 00:55:24.759
And, you know,

00:55:25.378 --> 00:55:27.320
that's basically the best case scenario in

00:55:27.340 --> 00:55:30.000
a situation like this and i think it's

00:55:30.481 --> 00:55:31.981
it's always good there's always going to

00:55:32.001 --> 00:55:34.181
be issues uh especially when it comes to

00:55:34.202 --> 00:55:36.021
like you know supply chain attacks where

00:55:37.782 --> 00:55:42.103
um someone can you know get access over

00:55:42.583 --> 00:55:44.565
packages and stuff like that um i think

00:55:44.605 --> 00:55:48.606
it's always important to be proactive and

00:55:48.806 --> 00:55:50.766
be aware of what's happening but i think

00:55:50.786 --> 00:55:51.387
in this case

00:55:52.016 --> 00:55:54.358
It sounds like most users don't have to

00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:57.740
be too concerned about anything apart from

00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.362
the RPM packages and also people that

00:56:00.402 --> 00:56:02.063
manually verify the GPG key,

00:56:02.083 --> 00:56:03.824
which I'm sure if you're one of those

00:56:03.864 --> 00:56:04.164
people,

00:56:04.184 --> 00:56:07.306
then that's probably something that you'll

00:56:07.347 --> 00:56:09.248
have to look into yourself.

00:56:09.309 --> 00:56:10.349
But for everyone else,

00:56:11.530 --> 00:56:12.471
nothing you have to do.

00:56:12.610 --> 00:56:13.672
I think this is a good

00:56:14.547 --> 00:56:17.489
Uh, this is good that Mozilla was, uh,

00:56:17.668 --> 00:56:18.989
open and transparent about making a

00:56:19.048 --> 00:56:20.528
mistake and fixing it properly.

00:56:20.688 --> 00:56:23.110
So that's basically the best case scenario

00:56:23.150 --> 00:56:26.530
in my opinion.

00:56:26.690 --> 00:56:26.971
Yeah.

00:56:27.050 --> 00:56:28.990
Supply chain attacks are really a whole

00:56:29.010 --> 00:56:29.550
different animal.

00:56:29.670 --> 00:56:30.192
Cause you know,

00:56:30.231 --> 00:56:31.192
we always tell people to like,

00:56:31.271 --> 00:56:34.351
make sure you use official outlets,

00:56:34.371 --> 00:56:35.753
like get things from the official source

00:56:35.773 --> 00:56:36.592
and whatnot, but like.

00:56:37.286 --> 00:56:38.327
If it's a supply chain attack,

00:56:38.347 --> 00:56:38.827
what can you do?

00:56:38.867 --> 00:56:40.108
You really just have to hope that the

00:56:40.148 --> 00:56:41.789
company is doing everything in their power

00:56:41.849 --> 00:56:45.230
and they're quick to respond and kind of

00:56:45.250 --> 00:56:45.610
sucks.

00:56:46.190 --> 00:56:48.371
But yeah.

00:56:48.391 --> 00:56:50.092
Before we jump into our next story,

00:56:50.132 --> 00:56:50.371
actually,

00:56:50.391 --> 00:56:52.092
we did get a quick question in the

00:56:52.211 --> 00:56:53.333
supporter signal chat.

00:56:55.081 --> 00:56:55.661
This person said,

00:56:55.681 --> 00:56:56.942
for transportation in general,

00:56:57.041 --> 00:56:58.063
is there anything we can do to be

00:56:58.123 --> 00:56:59.682
more private about where we go?

00:56:59.782 --> 00:57:00.903
And they said that, for example,

00:57:01.384 --> 00:57:02.384
if you live in an area with public

00:57:02.403 --> 00:57:05.626
transit, trains, metro, subways, buses,

00:57:05.706 --> 00:57:07.346
all these things often ask for some

00:57:07.465 --> 00:57:08.467
identifying information,

00:57:08.487 --> 00:57:09.567
such as your name and phone number,

00:57:09.586 --> 00:57:11.467
but usually lack the rigorous verification

00:57:11.507 --> 00:57:13.509
processes that places like airports

00:57:13.608 --> 00:57:14.228
enforce.

00:57:14.248 --> 00:57:16.030
Like, you know,

00:57:16.550 --> 00:57:17.911
usually nobody checks my ID when I get

00:57:17.931 --> 00:57:18.271
on a bus.

00:57:18.891 --> 00:57:19.711
A lot of the time they don't even

00:57:19.731 --> 00:57:20.271
check if I paid.

00:57:21.492 --> 00:57:21.753
They said,

00:57:21.813 --> 00:57:22.914
is it a good idea to travel under

00:57:22.934 --> 00:57:24.356
different names and use aliases wherever

00:57:24.396 --> 00:57:26.297
you can, or are there problems with that?

00:57:26.338 --> 00:57:27.739
And what are some other strategies we can

00:57:27.858 --> 00:57:29.440
use to combat surveillance when traveling?

00:57:31.422 --> 00:57:32.302
I mean, I'm not a lawyer.

00:57:33.664 --> 00:57:38.009
I kind of view travel more from a

00:57:38.068 --> 00:57:40.170
data breach perspective, you know,

00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:40.931
because a lot of the time,

00:57:40.972 --> 00:57:42.152
especially nowadays with things moving

00:57:42.172 --> 00:57:42.753
into apps,

00:57:42.873 --> 00:57:43.853
a lot of the time it's like you

00:57:43.893 --> 00:57:44.114
don't,

00:57:45.070 --> 00:57:45.690
physically,

00:57:45.851 --> 00:57:47.213
like I'm pretty sure back where I lived

00:57:47.233 --> 00:57:47.652
in Texas,

00:57:47.693 --> 00:57:50.695
you couldn't even pay in cash for a

00:57:50.715 --> 00:57:51.114
bus ticket.

00:57:51.295 --> 00:57:51.856
I could be wrong.

00:57:52.615 --> 00:57:54.297
Um, but whenever I took the bus,

00:57:54.338 --> 00:57:55.257
I usually used an app.

00:57:55.297 --> 00:57:56.318
And so at that point it's, you know,

00:57:56.418 --> 00:57:57.380
using a, my pseudo number,

00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:00.702
using a simple login alias, um,

00:58:00.722 --> 00:58:01.722
trying to use a VPN,

00:58:01.802 --> 00:58:03.324
just trying to think like if this app

00:58:03.344 --> 00:58:04.003
has a data breach,

00:58:04.023 --> 00:58:05.144
what information will it be able to

00:58:05.164 --> 00:58:05.525
reveal?

00:58:06.405 --> 00:58:07.766
I think I didn't even have to give

00:58:07.786 --> 00:58:09.188
it location information.

00:58:09.307 --> 00:58:10.309
I think I could just tell it what

00:58:10.349 --> 00:58:11.409
bus stop I wanted to look at.

00:58:11.469 --> 00:58:12.650
But, um, yeah,

00:58:13.597 --> 00:58:13.858
I don't know.

00:58:13.898 --> 00:58:15.458
That's kind of how I look at it.

00:58:15.498 --> 00:58:16.400
Cause also I don't want to sound

00:58:16.420 --> 00:58:16.840
defeatist,

00:58:16.900 --> 00:58:18.902
but a lot of buses nowadays also have

00:58:18.942 --> 00:58:21.903
cameras and your phone's tracking your

00:58:21.923 --> 00:58:22.465
location.

00:58:22.485 --> 00:58:22.965
So I don't know.

00:58:23.025 --> 00:58:24.186
I feel like that's kind of overkill to

00:58:24.246 --> 00:58:25.327
use aliasing information.

00:58:25.347 --> 00:58:26.407
And I do wonder if there would be

00:58:26.447 --> 00:58:29.449
any legal repercussions there.

00:58:29.510 --> 00:58:30.751
Like it's one of those things where if

00:58:30.791 --> 00:58:31.711
something goes wrong,

00:58:32.552 --> 00:58:34.094
is it going to cause more problems that

00:58:34.153 --> 00:58:36.054
your ticket doesn't match your ID?

00:58:36.195 --> 00:58:36.996
I don't know, but yeah.

00:58:38.347 --> 00:58:39.588
I also don't do a lot of public

00:58:39.608 --> 00:58:41.351
transit because I live in America and

00:58:42.434 --> 00:58:43.817
unfortunately our public transit is not

00:58:43.836 --> 00:58:44.157
that great.

00:58:44.197 --> 00:58:45.481
I would love to do more public transit,

00:58:45.541 --> 00:58:47.043
but it's just not always feasible.

00:58:47.784 --> 00:58:49.909
Do you have any thoughts on that question,

00:58:49.969 --> 00:58:50.190
Jordan?

00:58:51.532 --> 00:58:52.954
I would say there's,

00:58:54.496 --> 00:58:55.677
I can't really comment on like,

00:58:56.498 --> 00:58:58.981
I've never heard of any public transport

00:58:59.021 --> 00:58:59.922
needing an app.

00:59:00.264 --> 00:59:02.947
So try and avoid using an app if

00:59:02.967 --> 00:59:03.387
you can.

00:59:03.728 --> 00:59:05.050
I'm not sure if that's always possible,

00:59:05.090 --> 00:59:06.751
but if you can avoid using an app,

00:59:06.811 --> 00:59:07.693
I would say avoid that.

00:59:08.653 --> 00:59:10.275
A lot of public transit systems that I've

00:59:10.414 --> 00:59:13.436
used have always had a card that you

00:59:13.456 --> 00:59:15.077
could use and you can top it up

00:59:15.097 --> 00:59:15.717
with cash.

00:59:17.398 --> 00:59:19.099
I'm not sure if that's also about,

00:59:19.179 --> 00:59:20.518
like you'll have to do research into that

00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:22.360
because a lot of places they'll have

00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.101
different options available because,

00:59:24.141 --> 00:59:25.701
you know, there's people that are like,

00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:27.242
don't know how to use a phone or

00:59:27.282 --> 00:59:28.081
don't have a phone.

00:59:28.322 --> 00:59:29.503
So what do you do then?

00:59:29.583 --> 00:59:29.663
Oh,

00:59:29.722 --> 00:59:31.143
I guess you can't use the bus or

00:59:31.222 --> 00:59:32.083
like, you know, it doesn't,

00:59:32.704 --> 00:59:33.103
there's always,

00:59:33.324 --> 00:59:36.465
they have to make some different options.

00:59:36.505 --> 00:59:36.606
So

00:59:37.726 --> 00:59:39.891
definitely look into that um i think the

00:59:39.931 --> 00:59:45.065
most important part is also just um try

00:59:45.125 --> 00:59:46.809
not to uh

00:59:47.873 --> 00:59:52.016
share data with these transit companies if

00:59:52.036 --> 00:59:52.538
you can.

00:59:53.378 --> 00:59:54.539
Don't download the app,

00:59:54.619 --> 00:59:55.539
don't give it your phone number,

00:59:55.579 --> 00:59:56.440
don't give it your address,

00:59:56.460 --> 00:59:59.724
don't give it all that information.

00:59:59.764 --> 01:00:01.166
Try and minimize the amount of data that

01:00:01.186 --> 01:00:03.248
you're sharing with those companies,

01:00:03.648 --> 01:00:05.449
or if it's a public system,

01:00:05.489 --> 01:00:06.550
then the government.

01:00:07.512 --> 01:00:09.974
So I think that's also an important thing.

01:00:10.534 --> 01:00:10.775
I think

01:00:12.628 --> 01:00:14.130
I'm kind of a little bit biased,

01:00:14.231 --> 01:00:16.594
but I do a lot of cycling and

01:00:17.195 --> 01:00:17.516
no, no,

01:00:17.576 --> 01:00:19.278
no personal information required to do

01:00:19.298 --> 01:00:19.639
that.

01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:21.902
Walking also no personal information

01:00:21.943 --> 01:00:23.646
required, obviously, you know,

01:00:24.021 --> 01:00:25.503
that is, like Nate said,

01:00:25.523 --> 01:00:26.784
it kind of depends where you live,

01:00:26.844 --> 01:00:28.085
if that's an option or not.

01:00:28.505 --> 01:00:29.385
If you live in, you know,

01:00:29.425 --> 01:00:30.146
a rural town,

01:00:30.186 --> 01:00:32.509
I'm sure that's probably not as viable,

01:00:32.608 --> 01:00:34.771
but that is another thing.

01:00:35.490 --> 01:00:38.313
And I think, you know,

01:00:38.333 --> 01:00:40.976
there's also so much information that you

01:00:41.016 --> 01:00:43.378
can share when you're driving a car too,

01:00:43.418 --> 01:00:45.119
like we've talked about with Flock, right?

01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:47.001
You know, when you're driving around,

01:00:47.181 --> 01:00:48.221
there's cameras everywhere,

01:00:48.322 --> 01:00:49.101
recording your car,

01:00:49.161 --> 01:00:51.324
recording your number plate.

01:00:51.384 --> 01:00:52.505
It's also not a great

01:00:53.072 --> 01:00:54.914
option either it's pretty terrible cars

01:00:54.954 --> 01:00:56.737
are kind of terrible for privacy as well

01:00:56.759 --> 01:00:59.583
they share a bunch of information so it's

01:00:59.824 --> 01:01:02.588
just trying to like do harm reduction um

01:01:02.628 --> 01:01:03.190
where you can

01:01:03.981 --> 01:01:06.244
And obviously everyone has different

01:01:06.284 --> 01:01:08.344
requirements because some people need to

01:01:08.364 --> 01:01:10.126
drive, some people can't drive,

01:01:10.527 --> 01:01:11.266
all sorts of things.

01:01:11.827 --> 01:01:14.849
So it's just about reducing what you can

01:01:14.869 --> 01:01:16.990
and not, like Nate said,

01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:19.952
not going overboard because as Nate said,

01:01:19.992 --> 01:01:22.655
there's cameras in the public transit

01:01:22.675 --> 01:01:23.114
system.

01:01:23.155 --> 01:01:27.077
There's all sorts of tracking that happens

01:01:27.378 --> 01:01:28.458
through that as well.

01:01:28.478 --> 01:01:30.920
And I'm sure somebody could work out

01:01:32.007 --> 01:01:33.307
who you are, if they see, oh,

01:01:33.347 --> 01:01:34.889
this person taps on it this time,

01:01:34.929 --> 01:01:36.168
and then they just check the security

01:01:36.208 --> 01:01:37.369
cameras and they can see it's you.

01:01:37.509 --> 01:01:40.289
So, you know, there's, there's, um,

01:01:41.010 --> 01:01:42.429
there's always a trail when it comes to

01:01:42.469 --> 01:01:43.251
public transit.

01:01:43.431 --> 01:01:45.771
And anytime you step out your front door,

01:01:45.791 --> 01:01:47.130
you're basically going to be recorded.

01:01:47.210 --> 01:01:49.371
So just take that in mind.

01:01:49.911 --> 01:01:49.992
Um,

01:01:50.052 --> 01:01:52.393
I guess we can jump here into the

01:01:52.432 --> 01:01:53.092
next story though.

01:01:53.132 --> 01:01:54.793
This is kind of a group of stories

01:01:55.092 --> 01:01:57.893
this week, and it's about signal, um,

01:01:59.134 --> 01:02:00.594
Signal making a bunch of new updates.

01:02:00.635 --> 01:02:02.856
So this week I'll talk about the first

01:02:02.956 --> 01:02:04.137
one and then I'll hand it over back

01:02:04.157 --> 01:02:04.539
to Nate.

01:02:04.599 --> 01:02:07.260
So this one is more linked devices are

01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:09.503
on the table and the Android tablet.

01:02:09.882 --> 01:02:11.985
Now you can easily link another Android

01:02:12.005 --> 01:02:14.547
phone or Android tablet to your Signal

01:02:14.586 --> 01:02:14.947
account.

01:02:15.306 --> 01:02:18.009
We're also expanding linked device support

01:02:18.530 --> 01:02:19.110
on iOS.

01:02:19.150 --> 01:02:20.632
So you can link an iPhone to your

01:02:20.672 --> 01:02:23.253
Signal account in addition to our ongoing

01:02:23.313 --> 01:02:24.735
support for iPads.

01:02:26.057 --> 01:02:28.599
look for Signal iOS version eight point

01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.181
two two and Signal Android eight point two

01:02:32.300 --> 01:02:35.362
in the app slash Play Store near you.

01:02:35.543 --> 01:02:38.443
So I think this is one of these

01:02:38.483 --> 01:02:40.726
things that we've all been like basically

01:02:40.766 --> 01:02:42.025
begging for Signal to do.

01:02:42.206 --> 01:02:43.047
And it was like,

01:02:43.965 --> 01:02:45.507
one of these things that's so easy for

01:02:45.527 --> 01:02:46.367
them to do as well.

01:02:46.527 --> 01:02:48.210
And it's like a no-brainer for them to

01:02:48.250 --> 01:02:48.789
enable this.

01:02:49.670 --> 01:02:53.315
I think the most interesting thing about

01:02:53.355 --> 01:02:56.498
this is that previously, you know,

01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:58.840
a lot of people were complaining that they

01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:01.244
would have to use MOLLE

01:03:01.724 --> 01:03:04.527
instead of the official Signal app to be

01:03:04.987 --> 01:03:10.592
able to link another Android device to

01:03:10.612 --> 01:03:11.172
your account.

01:03:11.572 --> 01:03:13.213
And now that feature has been expanded

01:03:13.313 --> 01:03:15.856
officially to the official Signal app,

01:03:15.896 --> 01:03:17.898
which is really important.

01:03:18.117 --> 01:03:20.740
And it's better to be using the official

01:03:20.780 --> 01:03:21.840
Signal app if you can.

01:03:23.822 --> 01:03:25.224
just to reduce the amount of trust you

01:03:25.244 --> 01:03:27.347
have to have in different projects.

01:03:27.407 --> 01:03:30.710
So it's really cool that they've been able

01:03:30.750 --> 01:03:34.353
to release that as a new feature.

01:03:35.414 --> 01:03:36.414
Do you have any thoughts on this one,

01:03:36.434 --> 01:03:36.615
Nate?

01:03:38.838 --> 01:03:40.059
No, I just, yeah,

01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:40.980
I think it's really cool.

01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:42.481
I mean,

01:03:42.521 --> 01:03:43.601
obviously everybody's in a different

01:03:43.621 --> 01:03:44.063
situation,

01:03:44.103 --> 01:03:46.565
but my first thought was at my last

01:03:46.605 --> 01:03:46.846
job,

01:03:48.400 --> 01:03:50.262
I used my iPhone as a work phone.

01:03:51.141 --> 01:03:52.382
And so I would have my Android was

01:03:52.422 --> 01:03:53.023
my personal phone.

01:03:53.043 --> 01:03:54.704
And then my iPhone would have like teams

01:03:54.724 --> 01:03:55.585
and all that crap on it.

01:03:56.065 --> 01:03:57.688
And the only reason I had to carry

01:03:57.708 --> 01:03:59.688
around the Android was because of signal,

01:03:59.768 --> 01:04:02.570
because my wife exclusively uses signal.

01:04:02.670 --> 01:04:04.132
And there was a period where I,

01:04:04.833 --> 01:04:05.172
Um,

01:04:05.193 --> 01:04:06.494
basically I got some feedback that I was

01:04:06.534 --> 01:04:07.313
on my phone too much.

01:04:07.353 --> 01:04:08.293
So I was trying to be on my

01:04:08.333 --> 01:04:09.914
phone less and I had to go make

01:04:09.954 --> 01:04:11.875
like a separate signal account for the

01:04:12.054 --> 01:04:13.795
iPhone so that my wife could text me

01:04:13.835 --> 01:04:14.096
there.

01:04:14.155 --> 01:04:14.456
And it's like,

01:04:14.496 --> 01:04:16.675
it'd be really cool if we could just

01:04:17.336 --> 01:04:19.097
like, if this had existed at the time,

01:04:19.117 --> 01:04:19.376
it's like,

01:04:19.456 --> 01:04:20.697
I could have just put signal on my

01:04:20.818 --> 01:04:22.458
iPhone and been good to go.

01:04:22.737 --> 01:04:23.277
And so, yeah,

01:04:23.318 --> 01:04:24.199
I think this is really cool.

01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:26.358
I'm also thinking of the infamous time

01:04:26.378 --> 01:04:27.378
that my phone exploded.

01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:28.960
And I remember sitting there and going,

01:04:29.539 --> 01:04:30.300
how do I recover my,

01:04:30.721 --> 01:04:32.081
my signal account now?

01:04:32.661 --> 01:04:33.963
And, uh, you know, thankfully it was,

01:04:34.043 --> 01:04:35.204
it was pretty easy cause I had all

01:04:35.224 --> 01:04:36.744
the, I knew the pins and everything, but,

01:04:37.284 --> 01:04:37.905
um, yeah,

01:04:37.945 --> 01:04:39.186
to just like have that backup and

01:04:39.206 --> 01:04:41.467
everything is a definitely super,

01:04:41.507 --> 01:04:42.007
super cool.

01:04:42.248 --> 01:04:44.349
So, um,

01:04:44.369 --> 01:04:45.471
before I jump into the next one real

01:04:45.510 --> 01:04:46.231
quick, laptop said,

01:04:46.271 --> 01:04:47.092
what's wrong with Molly?

01:04:47.172 --> 01:04:49.452
There's nothing wrong with it or actually,

01:04:49.492 --> 01:04:50.574
actually I'll turn that one over to you

01:04:50.614 --> 01:04:51.394
since you're the one that said it.

01:04:51.715 --> 01:04:53.155
Um, what's, what's wrong with Molly?

01:04:54.483 --> 01:04:55.284
Um, obviously, you know,

01:04:55.304 --> 01:04:56.826
when you're trusting a third party,

01:04:56.885 --> 01:04:58.786
like with, with your,

01:04:58.887 --> 01:05:00.208
with your signal chats and stuff.

01:05:00.228 --> 01:05:02.208
So it's adding another party that you have

01:05:02.228 --> 01:05:05.110
to trust, like in addition to signal.

01:05:05.711 --> 01:05:07.492
Um, and also Norli has been,

01:05:08.233 --> 01:05:08.733
unfortunately,

01:05:08.753 --> 01:05:10.494
they've been a bit slow on keeping up

01:05:10.514 --> 01:05:11.795
to date with signals updates.

01:05:11.876 --> 01:05:12.476
So like,

01:05:12.896 --> 01:05:14.677
that is also a concern from a securities

01:05:14.717 --> 01:05:15.318
perspective.

01:05:15.778 --> 01:05:17.900
It adds a bunch of interesting new like

01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:19.181
privacy and security features,

01:05:19.221 --> 01:05:20.641
but it does seem like, um,

01:05:22.164 --> 01:05:23.146
you know,

01:05:23.246 --> 01:05:25.106
it's definitely a risk analysis thing.

01:05:25.146 --> 01:05:27.668
If the chats that you're having on Signal

01:05:27.688 --> 01:05:30.710
are really important and secure and stuff

01:05:30.731 --> 01:05:31.411
that can't leak,

01:05:31.452 --> 01:05:32.853
then obviously you want to reduce the

01:05:32.873 --> 01:05:35.235
amount of exposure that you could possibly

01:05:35.275 --> 01:05:35.574
have.

01:05:35.635 --> 01:05:38.556
So I think another important thing to have

01:05:38.717 --> 01:05:41.579
to talk about in this story is just

01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:45.583
the expansion of risk that happens when

01:05:45.603 --> 01:05:47.764
you add linked devices to your Signal

01:05:47.804 --> 01:05:48.123
account.

01:05:50.552 --> 01:05:52.333
I think there's less risk when it comes

01:05:52.393 --> 01:05:55.496
to adding a mobile device as a linked

01:05:55.536 --> 01:05:55.996
device.

01:05:56.675 --> 01:05:58.677
Whereas if you're adding a desktop device,

01:05:58.697 --> 01:06:00.438
that's where we do have more concerns.

01:06:00.798 --> 01:06:03.440
We've had stories in the past where the

01:06:03.501 --> 01:06:05.663
local database on the Signal desktop app

01:06:05.742 --> 01:06:08.505
was not encrypted or it's easier to access

01:06:08.565 --> 01:06:10.525
on a desktop because it doesn't have as

01:06:10.646 --> 01:06:13.387
robust permission system to restrict

01:06:13.507 --> 01:06:14.789
access from malicious apps.

01:06:15.208 --> 01:06:17.951
So every linked device you're adding is

01:06:18.030 --> 01:06:19.672
increasing the attack surface.

01:06:20.512 --> 01:06:22.853
That's one another thing to discuss as

01:06:22.914 --> 01:06:23.914
well when it comes to this.

01:06:24.394 --> 01:06:25.335
And like I said,

01:06:25.355 --> 01:06:29.277
the MOLLE using MOLLE is going to increase

01:06:29.297 --> 01:06:31.938
the attack surface because there's adding

01:06:31.958 --> 01:06:33.679
another device and you're also trusting

01:06:33.759 --> 01:06:36.340
another group of people to to manage that

01:06:36.460 --> 01:06:36.940
app, which.

01:06:38.701 --> 01:06:38.840
Is.

01:06:41.592 --> 01:06:43.233
isn't the only party you have to trust

01:06:43.293 --> 01:06:44.974
more or less because of the end-to-end

01:06:44.994 --> 01:06:46.014
encryption, the client, I mean.

01:06:46.474 --> 01:06:46.675
I mean,

01:06:46.695 --> 01:06:49.115
there's the Signal developers and then

01:06:49.135 --> 01:06:50.197
there's the MOLLE developers.

01:06:50.277 --> 01:06:52.418
So you're trusting the Signal developers

01:06:52.737 --> 01:06:53.918
to develop the Signal app.

01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:57.121
And then Signal is based on, no, sorry,

01:06:57.181 --> 01:06:58.322
MOLLE is based on Signal,

01:06:58.342 --> 01:07:00.342
which then they also have to add code

01:07:00.382 --> 01:07:01.083
on top of that.

01:07:01.143 --> 01:07:04.385
So you are trusting MOLLE and

01:07:05.922 --> 01:07:07.742
signal developers at the same time so

01:07:07.782 --> 01:07:09.762
that's an extra party you have to trust

01:07:09.862 --> 01:07:14.043
to make sure that they are not inserting

01:07:14.063 --> 01:07:16.585
any malicious code for instance because if

01:07:16.605 --> 01:07:19.646
your client is compromised then this this

01:07:19.786 --> 01:07:21.126
the end-to-end encryption doesn't matter

01:07:21.146 --> 01:07:24.286
because you know it's only end-to-end um

01:07:24.347 --> 01:07:27.467
so that's why it's important um hopefully

01:07:27.487 --> 01:07:28.148
that makes sense

01:07:29.923 --> 01:07:31.385
And also, real quick,

01:07:31.425 --> 01:07:33.005
I'm glad you mentioned the device raises

01:07:33.025 --> 01:07:33.726
your threat model thing.

01:07:33.746 --> 01:07:34.407
That is a good point.

01:07:35.447 --> 01:07:36.288
But I just want to point out,

01:07:36.547 --> 01:07:38.128
it's not even necessarily a malicious

01:07:38.148 --> 01:07:38.369
thing.

01:07:38.429 --> 01:07:40.130
It's just you have to trust them to

01:07:40.190 --> 01:07:41.431
implement it correctly.

01:07:42.070 --> 01:07:44.913
I don't know why this example just popped

01:07:44.932 --> 01:07:45.313
into my head,

01:07:45.353 --> 01:07:46.773
but if there's a Christmas gift,

01:07:47.153 --> 01:07:48.954
and let's say I'm going to give...

01:07:50.144 --> 01:07:50.465
I don't know.

01:07:50.485 --> 01:07:51.425
Let's say I'm going to give my sister

01:07:51.445 --> 01:07:52.606
a Christmas gift or let's say my wife

01:07:52.626 --> 01:07:53.786
wants to give my sister a Christmas gift

01:07:54.146 --> 01:07:55.746
and she wraps it up and hands it

01:07:55.786 --> 01:07:56.126
to me.

01:07:56.606 --> 01:07:57.367
And then for some reason,

01:07:57.547 --> 01:07:58.527
I deliver it to my sister.

01:07:59.266 --> 01:08:00.626
You have to trust me not to open

01:08:00.666 --> 01:08:00.726
it.

01:08:00.806 --> 01:08:01.887
Or in this case,

01:08:01.907 --> 01:08:03.527
like for some whatever reason, again,

01:08:03.547 --> 01:08:04.568
I don't know why this example popped in

01:08:04.608 --> 01:08:04.827
my head.

01:08:05.307 --> 01:08:06.748
For some reason, I decide to rewrap it.

01:08:07.028 --> 01:08:08.088
You have to trust me to wrap it

01:08:08.188 --> 01:08:09.708
right the same way that she did.

01:08:09.748 --> 01:08:11.250
Like it's just it's more people involved.

01:08:11.289 --> 01:08:12.610
It's more chances for something to go

01:08:12.650 --> 01:08:12.929
wrong.

01:08:14.090 --> 01:08:15.012
Even if it's not malicious,

01:08:15.052 --> 01:08:16.432
it's just people make mistakes.

01:08:17.014 --> 01:08:18.715
Yes, Mali is open source,

01:08:18.795 --> 01:08:21.177
but are they auditing every single

01:08:21.198 --> 01:08:21.717
release?

01:08:21.918 --> 01:08:23.560
Is there somebody out there who's combing

01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:24.701
through every single release?

01:08:24.761 --> 01:08:25.863
Are there multiple somebodies?

01:08:25.922 --> 01:08:27.423
Because the first person who combed

01:08:27.444 --> 01:08:28.484
through it could have missed something.

01:08:29.405 --> 01:08:30.627
It's just you're always...

01:08:31.368 --> 01:08:33.131
there is always a level of trust involved.

01:08:33.471 --> 01:08:33.591
Um,

01:08:33.631 --> 01:08:35.215
you're never going to completely remove

01:08:35.615 --> 01:08:37.259
trustless is kind of a buzzword in my

01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:37.519
opinion,

01:08:37.538 --> 01:08:38.440
because there is no such thing as

01:08:38.461 --> 01:08:38.801
trustless.

01:08:38.820 --> 01:08:40.184
You're always trusting someone somewhere,

01:08:40.645 --> 01:08:42.087
but the idea is to remove as much

01:08:42.127 --> 01:08:43.309
trust as possible.

01:08:43.349 --> 01:08:44.692
So, um,

01:08:46.676 --> 01:08:47.277
Yeah,

01:08:47.296 --> 01:08:49.417
Dag here did mention that Mali can encrypt

01:08:49.557 --> 01:08:51.659
local logs on the device, which, yeah,

01:08:51.699 --> 01:08:53.301
I mean, Mali does some cool stuff.

01:08:53.341 --> 01:08:54.742
And we're not saying don't use it.

01:08:54.782 --> 01:08:56.743
It's just keep in mind those are the

01:08:56.764 --> 01:08:57.163
trade-offs.

01:08:57.184 --> 01:08:58.864
You're introducing another party into the

01:08:58.904 --> 01:08:59.445
mix.

01:09:02.148 --> 01:09:02.627
On that note,

01:09:03.469 --> 01:09:04.930
we'll jump into the next quick Signal

01:09:05.010 --> 01:09:05.369
update,

01:09:05.489 --> 01:09:07.212
which is that Signal is introducing

01:09:07.752 --> 01:09:09.432
automatic key verification.

01:09:10.493 --> 01:09:12.095
Um, this is pretty cool.

01:09:12.175 --> 01:09:12.494
So, uh,

01:09:13.854 --> 01:09:15.336
this is supposed to compliment the

01:09:15.376 --> 01:09:16.716
existing safety number system.

01:09:16.735 --> 01:09:18.037
It's not supposed to replace it.

01:09:18.277 --> 01:09:18.936
Uh,

01:09:18.957 --> 01:09:20.457
it works through a system of verifications

01:09:20.497 --> 01:09:21.238
performed by you,

01:09:21.318 --> 01:09:22.778
your signal connections and third-party

01:09:22.877 --> 01:09:24.279
auditors that together provide the same

01:09:24.319 --> 01:09:25.899
assurance as manually verifying safety

01:09:25.918 --> 01:09:26.198
numbers.

01:09:26.639 --> 01:09:27.380
Unlike safety numbers,

01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:28.899
these verifications are done independently

01:09:28.979 --> 01:09:30.841
and do not require an in-person meeting or

01:09:30.921 --> 01:09:32.201
secondary communication channel.

01:09:32.801 --> 01:09:34.261
This system of verifications ensures that

01:09:34.282 --> 01:09:35.881
the association between a phone number or

01:09:36.042 --> 01:09:37.363
username and its public encryption

01:09:37.823 --> 01:09:40.042
key is globally consistent and transparent

01:09:40.064 --> 01:09:41.003
to all participants.

01:09:41.363 --> 01:09:42.583
This protects against scenarios where a

01:09:42.623 --> 01:09:44.163
key is swapped out without the owner's

01:09:44.203 --> 01:09:44.524
knowledge.

01:09:44.804 --> 01:09:45.244
For example,

01:09:45.345 --> 01:09:46.984
a malicious party compromised signal and

01:09:47.045 --> 01:09:48.244
associated a different key with your

01:09:48.265 --> 01:09:49.085
connection's phone number.

01:09:51.126 --> 01:09:52.966
There are technical details in the blog

01:09:53.006 --> 01:09:54.426
post if you want to learn more.

01:09:54.945 --> 01:09:56.027
I'm not going to go into them because

01:09:56.106 --> 01:09:57.327
I'll skim here real quick and you can

01:09:57.346 --> 01:09:58.747
see it's very detailed.

01:09:58.766 --> 01:10:01.087
I actually do need to finish reading this.

01:10:01.347 --> 01:10:02.847
They do try to break it down into

01:10:04.015 --> 01:10:05.036
understandable terms,

01:10:05.115 --> 01:10:05.877
which is super awesome.

01:10:05.917 --> 01:10:06.976
And I do want to finish reading it,

01:10:07.056 --> 01:10:09.057
but I'm not going to read it all

01:10:09.078 --> 01:10:09.318
here.

01:10:09.717 --> 01:10:10.717
They said to see it in action,

01:10:10.778 --> 01:10:13.038
go to a Signal Connections profile,

01:10:13.099 --> 01:10:15.059
hit view safety number and tap the verify

01:10:15.139 --> 01:10:16.659
automatically button under the automatic

01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:17.479
key verification.

01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:19.020
The button will show a green check mark

01:10:19.140 --> 01:10:20.461
and encryption verified when the feature

01:10:20.480 --> 01:10:22.001
is available and verification succeeds.

01:10:22.421 --> 01:10:22.921
Over time,

01:10:22.981 --> 01:10:24.341
this verification combined with the ones

01:10:24.362 --> 01:10:25.542
continually performed by your Signal

01:10:25.561 --> 01:10:26.682
Connection and third party auditors

01:10:27.023 --> 01:10:28.483
ensures the consistency of a Signal

01:10:28.502 --> 01:10:30.503
Connections key across Signal ecosystem.

01:10:31.344 --> 01:10:31.524
Uh,

01:10:31.543 --> 01:10:33.326
I did try to test this out personally,

01:10:33.586 --> 01:10:34.667
um, with one of my contacts,

01:10:34.766 --> 01:10:36.068
I'm guessing they haven't updated yet

01:10:36.108 --> 01:10:37.509
because it didn't let me, uh,

01:10:37.529 --> 01:10:38.248
it was like grayed out.

01:10:38.548 --> 01:10:39.409
Um,

01:10:39.529 --> 01:10:41.270
I also have an issue where I'm usually

01:10:41.331 --> 01:10:43.033
pretty good about actually like doing the

01:10:43.052 --> 01:10:44.413
safety number thing with people just for

01:10:44.453 --> 01:10:44.734
fun.

01:10:44.854 --> 01:10:46.595
So I kind of had to dig through

01:10:46.614 --> 01:10:46.954
and be like,

01:10:46.975 --> 01:10:48.636
who have I not verified yet?

01:10:49.356 --> 01:10:50.358
But, uh, yeah.

01:10:50.757 --> 01:10:52.979
Um, that's what I've got here.

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:53.079
Uh,

01:10:53.100 --> 01:10:56.902
I don't know if I have any thoughts

01:10:57.103 --> 01:10:57.762
on that one.

01:10:58.684 --> 01:10:58.904
Um,

01:11:00.989 --> 01:11:01.171
Yeah,

01:11:01.270 --> 01:11:02.255
I don't really have any thoughts on that

01:11:02.315 --> 01:11:02.395
one.

01:11:02.435 --> 01:11:02.617
Again,

01:11:02.636 --> 01:11:04.042
it's just it's not a replacement for the

01:11:04.082 --> 01:11:04.664
safety numbers.

01:11:04.685 --> 01:11:06.332
Do you have any opinions of that one,

01:11:06.351 --> 01:11:06.552
Jordan?

01:11:08.576 --> 01:11:08.836
No,

01:11:08.895 --> 01:11:12.797
I think this is just signal bolstering

01:11:12.938 --> 01:11:17.538
their ability to verify contacts and

01:11:17.578 --> 01:11:17.759
stuff.

01:11:17.798 --> 01:11:19.500
I think it's always important to give

01:11:21.860 --> 01:11:22.980
extra verification stuff,

01:11:23.020 --> 01:11:26.681
especially because I'm not verifying every

01:11:26.721 --> 01:11:29.963
single person in my contacts,

01:11:30.064 --> 01:11:32.725
but I think it's also good to mention

01:11:33.425 --> 01:11:33.625
what

01:11:34.412 --> 01:11:37.012
why would you want to verify your

01:11:37.052 --> 01:11:37.533
contacts?

01:11:37.592 --> 01:11:39.373
Why would you want to do that in

01:11:39.413 --> 01:11:41.595
the first place?

01:11:41.635 --> 01:11:43.475
What benefit does this give, I guess?

01:11:45.176 --> 01:11:47.957
And I guess that would be if somebody's

01:11:48.037 --> 01:11:49.019
account gets taken over,

01:11:49.059 --> 01:11:50.498
you can tell that their account's been

01:11:50.519 --> 01:11:51.939
taken over because their safety number

01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:52.359
changes.

01:11:54.220 --> 01:11:55.021
That's one thing.

01:11:55.703 --> 01:11:55.882
Um,

01:11:56.064 --> 01:11:57.404
it basically allows you to know that the

01:11:57.445 --> 01:11:58.927
person you're talking to is actually the

01:11:58.967 --> 01:12:01.971
person that, you know, on the other end.

01:12:02.032 --> 01:12:02.372
Right.

01:12:02.693 --> 01:12:05.756
Um, so this automated like, um,

01:12:05.856 --> 01:12:09.341
key verification system is, uh,

01:12:11.177 --> 01:12:12.858
I guess just like another additional

01:12:12.899 --> 01:12:13.658
layer, like you said,

01:12:13.698 --> 01:12:15.198
it's not something that's going to replace

01:12:15.338 --> 01:12:17.159
the safety number system, but it's like,

01:12:18.119 --> 01:12:18.319
you know,

01:12:18.340 --> 01:12:19.659
if something is going on with that,

01:12:19.739 --> 01:12:21.461
if like there's an issue with the

01:12:21.480 --> 01:12:23.240
encryption, then it's going to notify you,

01:12:23.301 --> 01:12:23.702
I guess.

01:12:25.721 --> 01:12:27.382
So I think that is,

01:12:27.403 --> 01:12:28.643
is also important to have that.

01:12:29.622 --> 01:12:33.743
It does kind of, I guess,

01:12:36.465 --> 01:12:38.886
make me wonder if there's going to be,

01:12:40.582 --> 01:12:44.043
further changes to how the the key system

01:12:44.083 --> 01:12:45.965
works maybe uh is this like something that

01:12:45.984 --> 01:12:48.386
they're gonna improve on more in the

01:12:48.405 --> 01:12:50.865
future um i'm not really sure but i

01:12:50.886 --> 01:12:55.108
think a lot of people are don't like

01:12:56.068 --> 01:12:57.708
i see some people in my contacts who

01:12:57.729 --> 01:12:59.408
their safety number constantly keeps

01:12:59.448 --> 01:13:01.810
changing and it's like you know i think

01:13:02.737 --> 01:13:04.578
if this system is able to kind of

01:13:04.719 --> 01:13:06.400
keep it so that at least I know

01:13:06.421 --> 01:13:08.943
that this person is going to receive the

01:13:08.962 --> 01:13:10.344
message, like it's, I don't know,

01:13:10.664 --> 01:13:11.045
it's just,

01:13:11.265 --> 01:13:13.346
it's another thing that can help, uh,

01:13:13.707 --> 01:13:14.347
verify that.

01:13:14.387 --> 01:13:14.688
Right.

01:13:14.787 --> 01:13:15.389
So I don't know.

01:13:15.469 --> 01:13:16.990
I'm not really, um,

01:13:19.052 --> 01:13:20.314
I'm not really super hyped for this

01:13:20.333 --> 01:13:22.496
feature, but I think it's a good, uh,

01:13:22.595 --> 01:13:24.738
increase in, in safety for some people.

01:13:26.703 --> 01:13:26.783
Yeah,

01:13:26.804 --> 01:13:28.284
it's definitely one of those behind the

01:13:28.305 --> 01:13:29.786
scenes, not super sexy.

01:13:29.845 --> 01:13:31.688
Like I'm not sitting here like, oh yeah,

01:13:31.707 --> 01:13:33.007
but I'm just like, oh, okay,

01:13:33.069 --> 01:13:33.708
that's interesting.

01:13:33.748 --> 01:13:34.269
That's cool.

01:13:34.368 --> 01:13:36.051
So yeah, I hear you.

01:13:36.091 --> 01:13:37.332
It's not the most exciting thing out

01:13:37.351 --> 01:13:37.511
there,

01:13:37.532 --> 01:13:39.172
but it is cool to see Signal constantly

01:13:39.853 --> 01:13:40.654
improving like that.

01:13:42.926 --> 01:13:43.106
Yeah,

01:13:43.146 --> 01:13:45.788
I guess talking about Signal constantly

01:13:45.828 --> 01:13:46.349
improving,

01:13:47.010 --> 01:13:49.110
there's another update here from Signal.

01:13:49.471 --> 01:13:51.193
Signal is working on registration without

01:13:51.212 --> 01:13:51.792
a phone number,

01:13:51.972 --> 01:13:53.434
but what form will it take?

01:13:54.015 --> 01:13:55.895
So this article here is from this

01:13:55.975 --> 01:13:58.518
unofficial website called aboutsignal.com.

01:13:59.177 --> 01:14:00.559
And basically what they've done is they've

01:14:00.599 --> 01:14:01.939
put together this article that

01:14:03.001 --> 01:14:05.664
basically shows every point where Signal

01:14:05.744 --> 01:14:07.807
is working towards removing the phone

01:14:07.847 --> 01:14:08.769
number requirement.

01:14:09.789 --> 01:14:13.034
There's been hints in GitHub code that

01:14:13.775 --> 01:14:15.398
Signal is exploring support for

01:14:15.438 --> 01:14:16.739
registration without a phone number,

01:14:16.779 --> 01:14:19.404
which, oh my goodness, if this happens,

01:14:20.953 --> 01:14:22.634
I'm going to be so happy because that's

01:14:22.654 --> 01:14:24.835
like one of the biggest issues that some

01:14:24.875 --> 01:14:26.435
people have with Signal, right?

01:14:26.496 --> 01:14:27.657
It's like, oh,

01:14:27.737 --> 01:14:28.578
I don't want to give it my phone

01:14:28.597 --> 01:14:28.797
number.

01:14:28.837 --> 01:14:30.158
This is obviously a honeypot.

01:14:30.259 --> 01:14:32.260
It's like, well, if they remove it,

01:14:32.319 --> 01:14:34.881
then what's the argument at that point?

01:14:34.921 --> 01:14:35.841
There is no argument.

01:14:36.402 --> 01:14:37.842
And I think, you know,

01:14:37.922 --> 01:14:39.524
I think this is exactly what we want

01:14:39.564 --> 01:14:40.324
Signal to be doing.

01:14:40.545 --> 01:14:42.445
We want them to be closing every single

01:14:42.905 --> 01:14:44.766
loophole that pushes people away from this

01:14:44.887 --> 01:14:45.667
app because we

01:14:47.761 --> 01:14:49.283
We want people to have the most secure

01:14:49.302 --> 01:14:50.422
communications possible.

01:14:51.344 --> 01:14:54.225
I guess here's a rundown of what the

01:14:54.265 --> 01:14:55.305
changes look like.

01:14:56.485 --> 01:14:57.527
There's a commit here that said,

01:14:57.567 --> 01:14:59.127
don't allow or set registration lock on

01:14:59.167 --> 01:15:00.387
accounts with no phone number.

01:15:00.807 --> 01:15:02.809
Add utility methods for getting country

01:15:02.889 --> 01:15:04.550
region codes for accounts that may not

01:15:04.590 --> 01:15:05.270
have phone numbers.

01:15:05.750 --> 01:15:07.530
Add support for pessimistic locking of

01:15:07.570 --> 01:15:08.971
phone number lists accounts.

01:15:09.511 --> 01:15:10.972
Do not allow accounts without phone

01:15:10.993 --> 01:15:13.453
numbers to perform P&I key operations.

01:15:14.234 --> 01:15:14.615
Basically,

01:15:14.676 --> 01:15:16.322
all those commits together show that

01:15:16.362 --> 01:15:18.027
Signal is making backend changes to

01:15:18.067 --> 01:15:19.492
support accounts without phone numbers.

01:15:22.625 --> 01:15:24.685
registration without a phone number will

01:15:24.706 --> 01:15:25.246
be optional.

01:15:25.326 --> 01:15:27.126
So if someone is still wanting to use

01:15:27.166 --> 01:15:28.567
their phone number to sign up, they can.

01:15:29.006 --> 01:15:30.606
I think everyone in the privacy community

01:15:30.646 --> 01:15:32.007
is not going to be using a phone

01:15:32.028 --> 01:15:32.328
number.

01:15:32.408 --> 01:15:34.068
So that's cool.

01:15:34.268 --> 01:15:35.769
One issue that I did see with this

01:15:35.828 --> 01:15:37.748
that is probably the most frustrating

01:15:37.788 --> 01:15:40.850
thing is it looks like you can't convert

01:15:41.710 --> 01:15:43.570
a Signal account that uses a phone number

01:15:44.390 --> 01:15:46.931
into one that doesn't use a phone number,

01:15:46.992 --> 01:15:48.851
at least from the information that we have

01:15:49.051 --> 01:15:49.532
already,

01:15:50.092 --> 01:15:50.893
which is

01:15:52.585 --> 01:15:54.265
I think might become a bit of an

01:15:54.345 --> 01:15:55.966
issue because if you're like me,

01:15:56.146 --> 01:15:59.029
you probably have like a hundred signal

01:15:59.069 --> 01:16:00.050
contacts or whatever,

01:16:00.109 --> 01:16:01.511
like fifty signal contacts.

01:16:01.610 --> 01:16:03.212
And if you have to start a new

01:16:03.231 --> 01:16:03.511
account,

01:16:03.532 --> 01:16:04.591
you're going to have to re-add every

01:16:04.631 --> 01:16:06.332
single signal contact that you have on

01:16:07.113 --> 01:16:07.654
your new account,

01:16:07.694 --> 01:16:09.375
which is kind of a pain.

01:16:10.496 --> 01:16:12.056
There's no easy way to do that.

01:16:12.117 --> 01:16:14.097
So that's probably my biggest concern with

01:16:14.118 --> 01:16:14.377
this.

01:16:14.717 --> 01:16:15.859
It's going to be kind of annoying to

01:16:15.918 --> 01:16:17.500
have to recreate your signal account.

01:16:19.521 --> 01:16:20.662
I'm not really that bothered by this,

01:16:20.783 --> 01:16:21.783
the phone number requirement.

01:16:21.804 --> 01:16:23.006
So maybe this is just going to push

01:16:23.025 --> 01:16:24.527
people that were kind of resistant to

01:16:24.667 --> 01:16:26.048
using Signal over to using that.

01:16:26.149 --> 01:16:26.710
I'm not sure.

01:16:28.832 --> 01:16:29.072
But yeah,

01:16:29.091 --> 01:16:30.172
I guess this is one of those things

01:16:30.193 --> 01:16:31.994
that's like, Nate, you were saying before,

01:16:32.074 --> 01:16:33.237
like, oh,

01:16:33.256 --> 01:16:35.238
this isn't like a really cool and sexy

01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:35.599
change.

01:16:35.658 --> 01:16:36.319
This is that.

01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:39.082
So how do you feel about it?

01:16:41.954 --> 01:16:42.975
I feel pretty good about it.

01:16:44.235 --> 01:16:46.438
One thing we should add is that this

01:16:46.497 --> 01:16:48.439
article links to another article from

01:16:48.559 --> 01:16:51.060
August seventh that's titled signal login

01:16:51.100 --> 01:16:53.823
colon operational or optional registration

01:16:53.842 --> 01:16:55.283
without a phone number will require one

01:16:55.323 --> 01:16:55.863
time payment.

01:16:56.664 --> 01:16:57.465
That's really it.

01:16:57.505 --> 01:16:58.685
There's no information in the article.

01:16:58.706 --> 01:16:59.827
It's just, again, speculating.

01:17:00.226 --> 01:17:00.726
We don't know.

01:17:00.907 --> 01:17:02.988
Presumably it will allow like Apple Pay,

01:17:03.029 --> 01:17:04.949
Google Pay for convenience,

01:17:05.050 --> 01:17:05.930
but we don't know if they're going to

01:17:05.951 --> 01:17:08.011
allow like Monero or cryptocurrency or

01:17:08.032 --> 01:17:09.092
something as an alternative.

01:17:11.355 --> 01:17:13.461
Yeah, I think overall, I mean,

01:17:13.501 --> 01:17:14.503
I'm definitely a fan of this.

01:17:15.506 --> 01:17:18.654
Me personally, I think I'm a little bit...

01:17:19.795 --> 01:17:22.197
paranoid again having had my phone explode

01:17:22.216 --> 01:17:23.377
and like so much of my life is

01:17:23.417 --> 01:17:25.059
in signal i'm kind of okay with like

01:17:25.639 --> 01:17:26.760
yeah i'm just gonna leave my phone number

01:17:26.779 --> 01:17:29.341
there as a backup just in case i

01:17:29.362 --> 01:17:30.582
don't think my threat model is so high

01:17:30.603 --> 01:17:31.342
that i need to get rid of the

01:17:31.363 --> 01:17:33.444
phone number but yeah it is it does

01:17:33.465 --> 01:17:34.704
kind of suck that you won't be able

01:17:34.744 --> 01:17:36.667
to remove a phone number um i do

01:17:36.707 --> 01:17:39.168
wonder if uh i wonder if that's like

01:17:39.189 --> 01:17:40.890
a technical thing that there's just like

01:17:40.930 --> 01:17:41.990
really no way for them to pull it

01:17:42.110 --> 01:17:43.752
off or maybe that'll be something they do

01:17:43.792 --> 01:17:45.733
down the road i'm not really sure but

01:17:46.654 --> 01:17:46.774
um

01:17:47.944 --> 01:17:48.484
I don't know,

01:17:48.503 --> 01:17:49.744
the phone number thing has never bothered

01:17:49.784 --> 01:17:51.487
me too much,

01:17:51.627 --> 01:17:53.087
but also I recognize my privilege of

01:17:53.127 --> 01:17:54.948
living in America where I can have as

01:17:54.988 --> 01:17:56.130
many phone numbers as I want and I

01:17:56.170 --> 01:17:57.251
don't have to show ID to get a

01:17:57.291 --> 01:17:58.412
SIM card and stuff like that.

01:18:00.113 --> 01:18:00.474
I think...

01:18:02.132 --> 01:18:03.552
I think Signal did the best they could

01:18:03.573 --> 01:18:05.134
to protect that information in the sense

01:18:05.173 --> 01:18:06.394
that like phone numbers are hashed.

01:18:06.474 --> 01:18:08.614
So the government can't go, hey,

01:18:08.635 --> 01:18:09.914
give us a list of phone numbers or

01:18:09.954 --> 01:18:10.395
like, you know,

01:18:10.435 --> 01:18:11.756
give us a list of these people.

01:18:12.756 --> 01:18:14.076
But there's nothing stopping the

01:18:14.095 --> 01:18:14.756
government, again,

01:18:14.796 --> 01:18:16.077
going back to countries where you need to

01:18:16.117 --> 01:18:17.356
turn over ID to get a SIM card.

01:18:17.717 --> 01:18:18.877
There's nothing stopping the government

01:18:18.898 --> 01:18:20.118
from going, hey, here's a phone number.

01:18:20.158 --> 01:18:21.399
Do you have this as a user?

01:18:21.538 --> 01:18:23.279
And they can confirm or deny that,

01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:24.880
which is unfortunate.

01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:26.520
It's also,

01:18:26.600 --> 01:18:28.240
they say that it's the goal is to

01:18:28.261 --> 01:18:29.001
prevent spam.

01:18:29.100 --> 01:18:29.501
But again,

01:18:31.064 --> 01:18:32.083
Spammers don't care,

01:18:32.163 --> 01:18:33.783
so what's to stop them from just creating

01:18:33.864 --> 01:18:35.664
infinite VoIP numbers and creating Signal

01:18:35.704 --> 01:18:36.125
accounts?

01:18:36.185 --> 01:18:37.545
I don't know.

01:18:38.145 --> 01:18:39.725
I've never really had a spam problem on

01:18:39.746 --> 01:18:40.006
Signal,

01:18:40.025 --> 01:18:41.246
but I've heard that some people have,

01:18:41.305 --> 01:18:43.025
so I don't know how effective that

01:18:43.065 --> 01:18:43.765
actually was.

01:18:46.867 --> 01:18:48.346
I don't think it's fair how much heat

01:18:48.627 --> 01:18:49.627
Signal took for this.

01:18:50.266 --> 01:18:51.368
Like you said, people are always like, oh,

01:18:51.387 --> 01:18:52.148
it's a honeypot.

01:18:52.868 --> 01:18:54.328
I think people confuse anonymity and

01:18:54.368 --> 01:18:55.307
privacy way too much.

01:18:55.768 --> 01:18:57.429
Signal never promised you to be anonymous,

01:18:57.509 --> 01:18:58.889
but it is private.

01:18:58.929 --> 01:18:59.788
It protects you, but

01:19:00.452 --> 01:19:01.953
Uh, still, I think this is a win.

01:19:02.092 --> 01:19:04.435
I think for people who don't want to

01:19:04.454 --> 01:19:05.996
turn over a phone number for any reason,

01:19:06.055 --> 01:19:07.938
whether it's a perfectly sensible one or

01:19:08.037 --> 01:19:09.458
just paranoia, it doesn't really matter.

01:19:09.519 --> 01:19:10.560
I think that's great that they have this

01:19:10.619 --> 01:19:12.980
option and I just hope that they will

01:19:13.041 --> 01:19:15.422
support some form of private payment

01:19:15.483 --> 01:19:16.444
option because otherwise I,

01:19:17.125 --> 01:19:18.305
I think it's kind of a hollow victory.

01:19:18.324 --> 01:19:18.626
If it's like,

01:19:18.645 --> 01:19:19.645
you don't have to hand over your phone

01:19:19.685 --> 01:19:19.926
number,

01:19:20.266 --> 01:19:21.408
but now you have to pay through the

01:19:21.467 --> 01:19:21.948
app store,

01:19:21.988 --> 01:19:24.170
which is even less private than that in

01:19:24.229 --> 01:19:24.789
most cases.

01:19:24.810 --> 01:19:25.171
So yeah,

01:19:27.032 --> 01:19:27.872
I think those are kind of my only

01:19:27.893 --> 01:19:28.153
thoughts.

01:19:30.440 --> 01:19:31.341
Yeah, totally fair.

01:19:31.360 --> 01:19:33.261
It'll be interesting to see how this ends

01:19:33.301 --> 01:19:33.862
up rolling out.

01:19:33.921 --> 01:19:35.742
I'm assuming that we'll probably get

01:19:35.801 --> 01:19:39.722
something in the beta slash alpha channel

01:19:39.823 --> 01:19:41.144
at some point where we'll be able to

01:19:41.184 --> 01:19:43.764
check out this and definitely make sure to

01:19:43.783 --> 01:19:46.885
get subscribed here on YouTube or whatever

01:19:46.925 --> 01:19:47.604
platform you're on.

01:19:48.244 --> 01:19:50.645
And we'll have updates on that as it

01:19:50.725 --> 01:19:51.345
rolls out.

01:19:51.426 --> 01:19:52.025
But yeah,

01:19:52.105 --> 01:19:53.346
that's kind of everything on that one,

01:19:53.386 --> 01:19:54.506
unless you had anything more to add.

01:19:56.363 --> 01:19:57.583
I just wanted to mention what Jonah said

01:19:57.644 --> 01:19:57.904
here.

01:19:58.404 --> 01:19:58.765
But yeah,

01:19:58.824 --> 01:20:00.185
everyone hates three month for this.

01:20:00.225 --> 01:20:02.306
He's got a point if, if, I mean,

01:20:02.327 --> 01:20:02.707
to be fair,

01:20:02.766 --> 01:20:04.347
I guess signal offers the alternative,

01:20:04.389 --> 01:20:04.588
right?

01:20:04.609 --> 01:20:05.708
Like you can use a phone number,

01:20:05.769 --> 01:20:06.710
but yeah, a lot of people,

01:20:08.451 --> 01:20:09.912
I haven't seen so much hate for three

01:20:09.931 --> 01:20:10.813
month because they charge,

01:20:10.832 --> 01:20:11.833
but I've seen a lot of people point

01:20:11.873 --> 01:20:11.953
out.

01:20:11.974 --> 01:20:12.293
It's like, yeah,

01:20:12.314 --> 01:20:13.515
it's a tough sell to get your family

01:20:13.534 --> 01:20:15.115
to spend five dollars on a messenger or

01:20:15.136 --> 01:20:15.435
whatever.

01:20:15.576 --> 01:20:17.778
So I don't know if there's pros and

01:20:17.797 --> 01:20:20.219
cons, but yeah, he's,

01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:20.960
he's got a point there.

01:20:22.568 --> 01:20:24.408
Uh, speaking of anonymity,

01:20:24.509 --> 01:20:25.911
what do you think is the best messenger

01:20:25.951 --> 01:20:27.311
to use with a pseudonym?

01:20:28.091 --> 01:20:30.213
Um, I mean,

01:20:30.293 --> 01:20:31.475
I think I have a thought on that.

01:20:31.494 --> 01:20:32.456
Do you have a thought on that one?

01:20:33.957 --> 01:20:34.917
I mean, I have a thought.

01:20:34.957 --> 01:20:35.177
Yeah.

01:20:35.198 --> 01:20:36.819
Why don't you start us off here?

01:20:36.838 --> 01:20:37.840
Probably, probably simple X.

01:20:39.770 --> 01:20:40.789
That was the first thing that came to

01:20:40.810 --> 01:20:44.452
mind for me is SimpleX doesn't require any

01:20:44.692 --> 01:20:45.931
information to sign up.

01:20:46.953 --> 01:20:48.092
Decentralized.

01:20:48.672 --> 01:20:48.934
Actually,

01:20:49.014 --> 01:20:50.434
one thing I do like about SimpleX that

01:20:50.573 --> 01:20:51.274
I... Oh my God,

01:20:51.293 --> 01:20:52.715
I would kill for Signal to introduce this

01:20:53.274 --> 01:20:54.996
is SimpleX does...

01:20:56.307 --> 01:20:58.368
different profiles that are all managed if

01:20:58.429 --> 01:20:59.868
i understand it correctly i haven't used

01:20:59.908 --> 01:21:01.350
it a ton but there's like different

01:21:01.390 --> 01:21:02.890
profiles but they're all managed in the

01:21:02.909 --> 01:21:05.551
same inbox so like i could add you

01:21:05.671 --> 01:21:08.271
on simplex as nate and then i could

01:21:08.351 --> 01:21:10.033
add like my wife on simplex under my

01:21:10.073 --> 01:21:12.774
real name and i'd use them both from

01:21:12.814 --> 01:21:14.594
the same screen but you guys would both

01:21:14.634 --> 01:21:16.895
see a different identity which is just

01:21:16.935 --> 01:21:18.935
like holy crap that is amazing if if

01:21:18.996 --> 01:21:20.216
i'm understanding that correctly i might

01:21:20.235 --> 01:21:22.317
be wrong but um

01:21:22.822 --> 01:21:23.521
Yeah, no,

01:21:23.542 --> 01:21:26.002
it's interesting because I have this

01:21:26.063 --> 01:21:26.483
problem.

01:21:28.563 --> 01:21:30.224
I won't go super into depth about it,

01:21:30.264 --> 01:21:32.323
but I don't go by the name that

01:21:32.363 --> 01:21:33.704
I use on here in real life.

01:21:34.585 --> 01:21:36.125
And sometimes I have to add people on

01:21:36.706 --> 01:21:37.926
Signal and I'm like, oh, yeah,

01:21:37.966 --> 01:21:39.386
so that's like my name,

01:21:39.605 --> 01:21:41.327
like not like the name that you should

01:21:41.346 --> 01:21:41.686
call me,

01:21:41.726 --> 01:21:43.186
but like that's another name that I use

01:21:43.207 --> 01:21:44.587
and people are kind of confused.

01:21:45.287 --> 01:21:48.868
And it's good when it gives you that

01:21:48.929 --> 01:21:49.248
option.

01:21:50.969 --> 01:21:53.372
to basically have another name appear or

01:21:53.412 --> 01:21:54.712
like you said that would be really cool

01:21:54.733 --> 01:21:56.555
if you could just have it like be

01:21:56.614 --> 01:21:58.636
able to choose how you appear to that

01:21:58.676 --> 01:22:01.658
specific person um that does sound really

01:22:01.698 --> 01:22:04.862
cool actually I really hope that that's uh

01:22:04.881 --> 01:22:07.104
that's something that Signal could add

01:22:07.185 --> 01:22:09.667
because it's an issue with Signal I know

01:22:09.707 --> 01:22:09.907
like

01:22:10.707 --> 01:22:11.627
I don't know if you want to talk

01:22:11.667 --> 01:22:12.207
about it a bit,

01:22:12.228 --> 01:22:13.569
but I noticed you definitely do have an

01:22:13.649 --> 01:22:15.488
interesting strategy regarding that on

01:22:15.548 --> 01:22:15.929
Signal.

01:22:19.109 --> 01:22:20.670
And I've thought about doing that because,

01:22:20.710 --> 01:22:20.930
like,

01:22:21.350 --> 01:22:22.650
sometimes I don't want to share what my

01:22:22.711 --> 01:22:23.850
real name is with people,

01:22:23.911 --> 01:22:27.332
and it's kind of one of those issues.

01:22:27.792 --> 01:22:29.332
I guess we should just quickly,

01:22:29.431 --> 01:22:31.132
before I swap it back to you here,

01:22:31.172 --> 01:22:31.353
though,

01:22:31.712 --> 01:22:34.453
we should probably discuss what are our

01:22:34.493 --> 01:22:35.613
recommendations for

01:22:37.275 --> 01:22:40.300
right now on privacy guides so like you

01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.823
said there's SimpleX which does offer the

01:22:42.842 --> 01:22:44.586
ability to do that so that was probably

01:22:44.626 --> 01:22:46.889
the main recommendation that you could use

01:22:46.929 --> 01:22:49.252
for that as far as I know none

01:22:49.292 --> 01:22:52.315
of the other recommendations really give

01:22:52.336 --> 01:22:52.997
you that option

01:22:54.530 --> 01:22:55.070
So yeah,

01:22:55.110 --> 01:22:57.212
basically what Nate said is SimpleX is

01:22:57.233 --> 01:22:58.273
going to be your best option,

01:22:58.372 --> 01:22:59.753
the only option really in our

01:22:59.793 --> 01:23:00.475
recommendations.

01:23:00.614 --> 01:23:03.395
So definitely at least test that out.

01:23:03.456 --> 01:23:05.858
I've used SimpleX before.

01:23:05.877 --> 01:23:06.757
It works quite well.

01:23:07.298 --> 01:23:09.079
I think it's definitely not on par in

01:23:09.140 --> 01:23:10.680
terms of usability to Signal.

01:23:10.921 --> 01:23:13.021
So maybe you can talk a little bit

01:23:13.042 --> 01:23:14.762
about your interesting strategy that you

01:23:14.922 --> 01:23:15.082
use.

01:23:15.184 --> 01:23:18.886
If you want, it's up to you.

01:23:18.966 --> 01:23:19.605
No, that's fine.

01:23:19.685 --> 01:23:21.426
Yeah, so my thing on Signal...

01:23:23.260 --> 01:23:25.304
Cause for a while I had like a

01:23:25.344 --> 01:23:26.726
personal one and a new oil one.

01:23:27.408 --> 01:23:28.390
And then for some reason,

01:23:28.490 --> 01:23:29.171
I think I just wasn't,

01:23:30.091 --> 01:23:31.712
I think actually what it was is like,

01:23:31.912 --> 01:23:34.255
as the privacy side of my life has

01:23:34.295 --> 01:23:37.278
slowly become more of a main important

01:23:37.318 --> 01:23:37.658
part.

01:23:38.498 --> 01:23:38.639
Um,

01:23:38.779 --> 01:23:40.841
I wanted more like instant access to

01:23:40.860 --> 01:23:42.582
things like, uh,

01:23:42.643 --> 01:23:43.863
especially when Henry and I worked

01:23:43.884 --> 01:23:44.845
together on surveillance report.

01:23:44.864 --> 01:23:45.784
Like I didn't want to wait until I

01:23:45.805 --> 01:23:46.765
got home at the end of the day

01:23:46.805 --> 01:23:47.667
to get messages from him.

01:23:48.108 --> 01:23:49.868
So I started using my personal signal

01:23:49.889 --> 01:23:50.930
account a lot more for,

01:23:51.029 --> 01:23:51.951
for new oil stuff.

01:23:52.671 --> 01:23:53.212
And, um,

01:23:54.332 --> 01:23:55.954
I think there was even like something else

01:23:56.234 --> 01:23:57.135
I started using it for.

01:23:57.215 --> 01:23:57.695
I can't remember,

01:23:57.716 --> 01:23:59.056
but I started using it for another thing.

01:23:59.716 --> 01:24:00.518
And I,

01:24:00.698 --> 01:24:03.539
I am that psycho who uses different names

01:24:03.560 --> 01:24:04.421
in different parts of my life.

01:24:04.461 --> 01:24:05.402
So I'm very open about the fact that

01:24:05.442 --> 01:24:06.422
Nate is not my real name.

01:24:07.023 --> 01:24:08.824
And I use different names for like music

01:24:08.864 --> 01:24:09.664
and writing and stuff.

01:24:10.185 --> 01:24:11.886
And so I hit a point where, yeah,

01:24:11.926 --> 01:24:13.228
I had like all these different signal

01:24:13.268 --> 01:24:13.809
accounts, like,

01:24:14.773 --> 01:24:16.632
or like different parts of my life

01:24:16.653 --> 01:24:17.654
converging in signal.

01:24:18.453 --> 01:24:20.113
And the way I decided to get around

01:24:20.194 --> 01:24:22.033
it was to just make my display name

01:24:22.073 --> 01:24:23.454
was the man with many names.

01:24:23.475 --> 01:24:25.954
Um, because I did realize I'm like, yeah,

01:24:25.994 --> 01:24:26.914
most people know, uh,

01:24:28.475 --> 01:24:29.716
especially once they get to know me,

01:24:29.775 --> 01:24:30.676
you know, I'm like, yeah.

01:24:30.756 --> 01:24:32.655
So I have this, I work in privacy.

01:24:32.756 --> 01:24:33.436
I go by Nate.

01:24:33.537 --> 01:24:34.577
And like, when I tell people, it's like,

01:24:34.596 --> 01:24:35.636
yeah, I have multiple names,

01:24:36.157 --> 01:24:38.417
which weirdly people are not surprised by.

01:24:38.457 --> 01:24:39.478
I don't know what that says about me,

01:24:39.917 --> 01:24:40.278
but, um,

01:24:41.137 --> 01:24:42.118
It's a, yeah,

01:24:42.279 --> 01:24:43.520
it just hits a point where it's like,

01:24:43.579 --> 01:24:44.560
people are just kind of used to it.

01:24:44.581 --> 01:24:45.782
Like, oh yeah, the man with many names.

01:24:45.801 --> 01:24:46.703
Cause they know it's true.

01:24:46.743 --> 01:24:48.685
He has so many names and it, uh,

01:24:48.744 --> 01:24:49.746
yeah, that's how I got around that.

01:24:50.086 --> 01:24:51.306
But I mean, a lot of people,

01:24:51.327 --> 01:24:53.208
you know, put a nickname or X or,

01:24:53.548 --> 01:24:55.690
you know, anonymous or whatever, um,

01:24:55.770 --> 01:24:56.612
as the display name,

01:24:56.631 --> 01:24:58.734
but it's definitely not as,

01:24:58.913 --> 01:25:01.576
as robust of a system as the profile

01:25:01.595 --> 01:25:03.158
thing from simple X,

01:25:03.177 --> 01:25:04.019
which laptop here said,

01:25:04.059 --> 01:25:05.020
I think you actually have to switch

01:25:05.039 --> 01:25:06.020
screens for profiles,

01:25:06.060 --> 01:25:07.622
but I still think it's easier with

01:25:08.743 --> 01:25:10.345
it's still an easier implementation than

01:25:10.364 --> 01:25:12.947
like having signal and Molly or having

01:25:12.987 --> 01:25:14.787
like different graphene profiles or,

01:25:14.807 --> 01:25:15.028
you know,

01:25:15.087 --> 01:25:17.849
all these different ways of doing things.

01:25:18.609 --> 01:25:18.850
So.

01:25:20.270 --> 01:25:20.530
Yeah.

01:25:20.610 --> 01:25:22.412
It's been an issue that I've been running

01:25:22.471 --> 01:25:23.533
into where I've got like,

01:25:24.914 --> 01:25:25.994
two Signal accounts.

01:25:26.234 --> 01:25:28.775
And then I'm like, oh,

01:25:28.815 --> 01:25:31.376
but then I can't talk to someone using

01:25:31.395 --> 01:25:32.976
another one because it's got that name on

01:25:33.037 --> 01:25:35.296
it and it's got things that would reveal

01:25:35.636 --> 01:25:36.818
other information that I don't want to

01:25:36.837 --> 01:25:37.118
share.

01:25:37.658 --> 01:25:39.457
So it is kind of frustrating if you're

01:25:39.497 --> 01:25:40.957
stuck using something like Signal.

01:25:40.997 --> 01:25:42.338
It's like, oh,

01:25:42.538 --> 01:25:43.779
if it had that as a feature,

01:25:43.798 --> 01:25:44.599
that would be great.

01:25:44.738 --> 01:25:47.460
But it's just not something that Signal

01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:48.260
supports right now.

01:25:48.319 --> 01:25:52.581
So you're kind of stuck with using SimpleX

01:25:52.661 --> 01:25:53.060
Chat,

01:25:53.140 --> 01:25:53.360
which

01:25:54.617 --> 01:25:56.179
do recommend on our site so definitely

01:25:56.219 --> 01:25:57.539
check that out if that's something that

01:25:57.579 --> 01:26:01.283
you um jonah said just make all your

01:26:01.304 --> 01:26:03.786
names start with the same letter and your

01:26:03.826 --> 01:26:06.088
signal profile can just be n or something

01:26:07.850 --> 01:26:10.573
yeah yeah but then the problem is i

01:26:10.613 --> 01:26:12.314
like to randomly generate my names that

01:26:12.335 --> 01:26:15.377
way there's no um there's no like

01:26:16.649 --> 01:26:17.609
You know how it's like people aren't as

01:26:17.649 --> 01:26:18.791
random as they think they are.

01:26:18.831 --> 01:26:20.110
So if you try to like randomly come

01:26:20.150 --> 01:26:20.890
up with passwords,

01:26:20.911 --> 01:26:22.252
they're probably not going to be as random

01:26:22.271 --> 01:26:22.971
as you think you are.

01:26:22.992 --> 01:26:23.532
And I don't know.

01:26:23.612 --> 01:26:25.233
I just, I'm, I'm weird about it.

01:26:25.292 --> 01:26:26.412
I literally just use a random name

01:26:26.453 --> 01:26:26.912
generator.

01:26:27.092 --> 01:26:29.734
So I'm kind of at the mercy of

01:26:29.753 --> 01:26:31.795
what that comes up with.

01:26:31.895 --> 01:26:35.315
I know I'm a, I'm weird.

01:26:35.695 --> 01:26:36.115
You know what though?

01:26:36.176 --> 01:26:36.655
It's working.

01:26:36.716 --> 01:26:37.197
Like I said,

01:26:37.256 --> 01:26:38.756
like a nine out of ten times people

01:26:38.796 --> 01:26:39.556
are just like,

01:26:39.636 --> 01:26:40.978
they don't even bat an eyelash.

01:26:41.177 --> 01:26:41.518
So yeah.

01:26:42.287 --> 01:26:42.527
And I've,

01:26:42.667 --> 01:26:44.009
I've had multiple people in different

01:26:44.029 --> 01:26:45.149
situations be like,

01:26:45.949 --> 01:26:46.970
who does this person know yet?

01:26:47.011 --> 01:26:48.112
Like they'll meet somebody new,

01:26:48.152 --> 01:26:48.932
like a friend or something.

01:26:48.953 --> 01:26:49.533
And they're just like,

01:26:49.993 --> 01:26:51.274
what name do they know you as?

01:26:54.417 --> 01:26:55.399
Um, laptop,

01:26:55.418 --> 01:26:56.859
does simple X have multi-device yet?

01:26:57.060 --> 01:26:58.161
Not exactly.

01:26:58.322 --> 01:26:59.181
It has, um,

01:26:59.422 --> 01:27:00.644
like they have to be on the same

01:27:00.724 --> 01:27:02.845
LAN and you can like scan a QR

01:27:02.865 --> 01:27:03.666
code and connect them.

01:27:04.186 --> 01:27:07.489
Um, but technically yes.

01:27:08.189 --> 01:27:08.751
So, yeah.

01:27:12.817 --> 01:27:13.197
Let's see.

01:27:13.396 --> 01:27:15.377
If anybody has any last questions,

01:27:15.417 --> 01:27:16.398
go ahead and drop them now.

01:27:16.478 --> 01:27:18.838
I'm looking at the privacy guides.

01:27:18.859 --> 01:27:20.179
I'm looking at the forum thread.

01:27:21.600 --> 01:27:23.020
No new questions in there.

01:27:23.220 --> 01:27:25.621
And I've had the signal chat open as

01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:26.060
well.

01:27:29.442 --> 01:27:30.521
I mean, if nobody has any questions,

01:27:30.582 --> 01:27:32.082
I'll go watch the latest episode of Silo.

01:27:34.615 --> 01:27:37.537
Damn, yeah.

01:27:37.578 --> 01:27:38.979
I'm not seeing any questions in here

01:27:39.059 --> 01:27:39.340
either,

01:27:39.439 --> 01:27:41.640
so I feel like we can start wrapping

01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:41.962
it up.

01:27:42.962 --> 01:27:43.962
Just a reminder, though,

01:27:44.002 --> 01:27:45.503
if you are a member,

01:27:46.425 --> 01:27:47.225
Privacy Guides member,

01:27:47.386 --> 01:27:48.726
that we do have a signal group and

01:27:48.747 --> 01:27:49.967
you can ask questions there.

01:27:50.387 --> 01:27:51.989
If you don't want to share the question

01:27:52.029 --> 01:27:53.371
publicly or anything like that,

01:27:54.792 --> 01:27:56.012
definitely consider asking.

01:27:56.738 --> 01:27:58.180
posting in there if you're a member and

01:27:58.220 --> 01:27:59.560
you want to hear what we have to

01:27:59.581 --> 01:28:01.623
say about a topic then feel free to

01:28:01.644 --> 01:28:03.786
do that oh looks like we got a

01:28:03.805 --> 01:28:06.930
question here from terracotta pie should i

01:28:06.970 --> 01:28:08.912
be concerned with linkedin requiring me to

01:28:08.952 --> 01:28:11.756
verify my id with persona after changing

01:28:11.796 --> 01:28:15.220
my email um it depends right like i

01:28:15.260 --> 01:28:15.420
think

01:28:15.911 --> 01:28:18.051
It obviously sucks because Persona is a

01:28:18.072 --> 01:28:19.152
really suspicious company.

01:28:19.551 --> 01:28:21.573
Every single age verification or ID

01:28:21.592 --> 01:28:23.594
verification company is pretty suspicious.

01:28:24.274 --> 01:28:26.175
And I think Persona has been shown to

01:28:26.194 --> 01:28:28.755
be linked to some weird stuff.

01:28:29.515 --> 01:28:33.756
And not particularly surprisingly,

01:28:33.856 --> 01:28:36.478
it obviously has concerns about data

01:28:36.518 --> 01:28:39.819
privacy because you have to submit your ID

01:28:39.859 --> 01:28:40.118
to them.

01:28:40.198 --> 01:28:41.319
So I think...

01:28:42.060 --> 01:28:43.780
It depends on how much you need LinkedIn.

01:28:44.020 --> 01:28:45.983
I think there's some industries where it's

01:28:46.023 --> 01:28:47.344
like if you don't have a LinkedIn,

01:28:47.363 --> 01:28:49.045
you're basically never going to get a job.

01:28:49.145 --> 01:28:51.025
So if you have connections through

01:28:51.065 --> 01:28:53.047
LinkedIn that are really important,

01:28:53.228 --> 01:28:55.109
then obviously you need to make a decision

01:28:55.628 --> 01:28:56.369
based on that.

01:28:56.529 --> 01:28:58.270
I think LinkedIn is one of those

01:28:59.471 --> 01:29:01.935
platforms that I think it really depends

01:29:02.055 --> 01:29:04.778
on the industry that you're in and you

01:29:04.797 --> 01:29:07.140
know having professional connections is

01:29:07.220 --> 01:29:08.862
important right if you want to find a

01:29:08.921 --> 01:29:11.204
job so it's kind of up to you

01:29:11.465 --> 01:29:12.166
I personally

01:29:13.932 --> 01:29:15.734
have given LinkedIn my ID.

01:29:17.515 --> 01:29:18.216
So I don't know,

01:29:18.296 --> 01:29:19.557
I think you got to,

01:29:19.578 --> 01:29:20.219
you got to weigh up,

01:29:20.338 --> 01:29:23.240
you got to weigh up the downsides and

01:29:23.280 --> 01:29:26.024
benefits for that yourself.

01:29:26.184 --> 01:29:27.784
And if it's,

01:29:27.944 --> 01:29:28.945
if you don't really have that many

01:29:28.966 --> 01:29:30.306
connections and you're not really using it

01:29:30.327 --> 01:29:30.688
that much,

01:29:30.728 --> 01:29:32.748
then maybe it's time to let it go.

01:29:32.930 --> 01:29:35.752
But if you do need it for like

01:29:35.811 --> 01:29:36.832
professional connections,

01:29:36.872 --> 01:29:39.335
then I would say it's probably a good

01:29:39.395 --> 01:29:39.855
idea to

01:29:41.587 --> 01:29:44.250
uh to do it unfortunately it kind of

01:29:44.289 --> 01:29:47.934
sucks they're forcing your hand so jonas

01:29:47.953 --> 01:29:52.436
said watch silo live on stream i'll do

01:29:52.497 --> 01:29:55.220
it man i was gonna say what if

01:29:55.260 --> 01:29:56.180
we uh what if we do it in

01:29:56.199 --> 01:29:59.122
the the supporters chat in the signal chat

01:29:59.844 --> 01:30:01.564
i'll just stream it there so you know

01:30:01.645 --> 01:30:02.926
sign up for a membership and you can

01:30:03.726 --> 01:30:04.927
watch silo with me every week

01:30:07.506 --> 01:30:08.548
Um, yeah, I just,

01:30:08.628 --> 01:30:09.869
I just want to echo what you said

01:30:09.909 --> 01:30:11.192
about the, um,

01:30:11.231 --> 01:30:12.172
like sometimes you got to do,

01:30:12.292 --> 01:30:12.773
I I'm with you.

01:30:12.813 --> 01:30:14.175
Like, I don't even have a LinkedIn.

01:30:14.215 --> 01:30:16.337
Thank God I haven't needed one, but I've,

01:30:16.518 --> 01:30:17.979
I've met people that say that same thing.

01:30:17.998 --> 01:30:18.439
It's like, yeah,

01:30:18.460 --> 01:30:19.862
no LinkedIn is where I found like my

01:30:19.902 --> 01:30:21.143
last four jobs.

01:30:21.283 --> 01:30:21.604
Like it's,

01:30:21.703 --> 01:30:23.506
it's really critical to my industry.

01:30:23.565 --> 01:30:25.467
And unfortunately at the end of the day,

01:30:25.547 --> 01:30:27.250
you have to make sure you're taken care

01:30:27.310 --> 01:30:27.470
of.

01:30:27.649 --> 01:30:27.890
Like,

01:30:29.099 --> 01:30:29.319
I mean,

01:30:29.458 --> 01:30:31.159
I guess if you want to go live

01:30:31.199 --> 01:30:33.680
out of your car or be homeless because

01:30:33.761 --> 01:30:35.761
you just don't want the data brokers to

01:30:35.780 --> 01:30:37.042
have an address, that's on you.

01:30:37.122 --> 01:30:39.363
But seriously, jokes aside,

01:30:39.563 --> 01:30:42.543
if your privacy is so extreme that it's

01:30:42.583 --> 01:30:44.204
holding you back from getting a job,

01:30:44.324 --> 01:30:47.485
advancing in your career, finding love,

01:30:47.525 --> 01:30:48.405
having a family,

01:30:48.985 --> 01:30:50.707
having stable mental health,

01:30:50.966 --> 01:30:52.587
and I'm being a little bit joking but

01:30:52.627 --> 01:30:53.328
also serious,

01:30:54.068 --> 01:30:55.208
that's when it's gone too far.

01:30:55.328 --> 01:30:55.588
Yeah.

01:30:56.408 --> 01:30:58.149
Um, yeah, if you don't need LinkedIn,

01:30:58.189 --> 01:30:59.409
if you don't need to give them your

01:30:59.490 --> 01:31:00.511
ID, then please don't.

01:31:00.591 --> 01:31:01.792
But if,

01:31:01.931 --> 01:31:03.131
if that's the only way you're going to

01:31:03.152 --> 01:31:04.393
be able to like keep food on the

01:31:04.412 --> 01:31:05.172
table, then by all means,

01:31:05.193 --> 01:31:06.154
you gotta do what you gotta do.

01:31:06.213 --> 01:31:11.756
So, yeah.

01:31:11.796 --> 01:31:13.716
But, uh,

01:31:13.737 --> 01:31:15.797
let me check the forum post again.

01:31:18.260 --> 01:31:18.640
Nothing yet.

01:31:18.699 --> 01:31:20.319
I do like that the forum automatically

01:31:20.399 --> 01:31:21.501
updates every once in a while.

01:31:21.520 --> 01:31:22.801
There have been a couple of comments since

01:31:22.841 --> 01:31:23.301
we started.

01:31:24.001 --> 01:31:25.761
And they're not questions.

01:31:25.782 --> 01:31:27.681
They're just comments to other users.

01:31:28.481 --> 01:31:29.483
But I like that I don't have to

01:31:29.523 --> 01:31:30.243
refresh the page.

01:31:30.283 --> 01:31:30.943
I just pull it up,

01:31:30.962 --> 01:31:32.203
and it's automatically like, boom,

01:31:32.243 --> 01:31:32.722
new comment.

01:31:32.943 --> 01:31:34.083
I think that's pretty awesome.

01:31:38.305 --> 01:31:40.625
But I think that's all we got.

01:31:41.944 --> 01:31:44.305
I guess we'll go ahead and call it

01:31:44.345 --> 01:31:44.786
a stream.

01:31:46.903 --> 01:31:49.144
So all the updates from this week in

01:31:49.184 --> 01:31:50.904
privacy will be shared on the blog every

01:31:50.944 --> 01:31:51.185
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01:31:51.265 --> 01:31:53.006
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and priority during the Q&A.

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You'll also get a cool badge on your

01:32:34.561 --> 01:32:36.002
profile in the Privacy Guides forum and

01:32:36.023 --> 01:32:36.302
the warm,

01:32:36.323 --> 01:32:37.743
fuzzy feeling of supporting independent

01:32:37.762 --> 01:32:38.042
media.

01:32:38.363 --> 01:32:39.663
Thank you so much for watching and we'll

01:32:39.684 --> 01:32:41.305
see you next week.

01:32:41.324 --> 01:32:42.005
See you next week.