WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.719 Matt: Mark Szymanski, welcome back to the WP Minute. 00:00:03.719 --> 00:00:05.590 Mark: Uncle Matt, it's always a pleasure to be here. 00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:06.750 Thank you so much. 00:00:07.460 --> 00:00:08.390 It's been a while, but we're back. 00:00:08.510 --> 00:00:08.890 It has 00:00:08.890 --> 00:00:09.500 Matt: been a while. 00:00:09.629 --> 00:00:13.499 you know, there's, Today's topic, we're gonna be talking, hopefully, a little 00:00:13.499 --> 00:00:19.079 bit about, AI, and, my exploration with coding, with AI, like getting 00:00:19.139 --> 00:00:20.449 a little bit more serious about it. 00:00:20.599 --> 00:00:24.059 I saw you put out a video, I almost trolled you on that video, I'll save that. 00:00:24.469 --> 00:00:25.709 for a later conversation. 00:00:26.159 --> 00:00:29.479 That's how you put out a video using AI to code a plugin. 00:00:29.479 --> 00:00:30.629 So I'm excited to hear more about that. 00:00:30.629 --> 00:00:31.929 And of course I'll link it up in the show notes. 00:00:32.629 --> 00:00:37.649 but, yeah, this time instead of me leading, I'm just as lost as you are. 00:00:37.659 --> 00:00:39.889 So this is going to be an interesting conversation, right? 00:00:39.889 --> 00:00:42.309 Usually I'm here coaching you through something, helping 00:00:42.309 --> 00:00:43.039 you understand something. 00:00:43.289 --> 00:00:46.289 I'm just as lost as you are with AI, maybe even more so. 00:00:46.609 --> 00:00:49.729 And, I'm kind of interested to talk about both of our experiences and maybe 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:51.249 what we're, what we're up to with it. 00:00:51.339 --> 00:00:52.089 If that's cool with you. 00:00:52.150 --> 00:00:54.649 Mark: It's always great. 00:00:54.699 --> 00:00:55.869 Always great to chat with you, brother. 00:00:55.969 --> 00:00:58.789 yeah, I mean, Well, I just want to say right off the top, I know we were talking 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.799 in the green room before this, that you, I've only known you for, I think, 00:01:02.809 --> 00:01:06.849 I can't remember what our anniversary is, knowing each other, but it's been 00:01:06.899 --> 00:01:12.429 a year or very, just around a year, and you've gone in that time from completely 00:01:12.459 --> 00:01:17.209 dis, complete disdain for AI, to now realizing that it's, it's coming, it's, 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:20.899 it's here, it's gonna continue to get a little more interesting, and you've had a 00:01:20.909 --> 00:01:24.939 chance to look at it a little deeper, and now, As you're saying off camera, you're 00:01:24.949 --> 00:01:27.369 basically a senior developer, you know, I 00:01:27.389 --> 00:01:31.979 Matt: feel like a senior developer, but the code output is probably abysmal. 00:01:32.169 --> 00:01:33.460 Mark: we definitely need to dig into that. 00:01:33.610 --> 00:01:34.860 Yeah, we definitely need to dig into that. 00:01:35.050 --> 00:01:38.940 Matt: So let's talk about, sort of giving up the reins to AI and like where, where 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:44.329 my thoughts are, you know, these days, I still think it's just, a really good 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:49.099 assistant right now it is replicating. 00:01:49.149 --> 00:01:49.789 So I've been using it. 00:01:51.084 --> 00:01:54.554 Claude, I've been using Claude largely over the last, I don't know, six months. 00:01:54.554 --> 00:01:58.834 I generally, it's how I shape a lot of my show notes, for the podcast 00:01:58.854 --> 00:02:03.224 episodes that I put out really, that's what I use it for mostly. 00:02:03.514 --> 00:02:06.944 and, it's been fine for that, right? 00:02:06.944 --> 00:02:08.335 It's, it's been okay for that. 00:02:08.685 --> 00:02:11.375 these are things that are, you know, low value. 00:02:11.705 --> 00:02:16.335 you know, I, I just need concise, I need speed and efficiency and that's where, 00:02:16.355 --> 00:02:21.774 you know, Claude and it's recent iteration of, it's, LLM has been really great 3. 00:02:21.774 --> 00:02:22.545 5 or whatever it was. 00:02:22.585 --> 00:02:23.484 And, and the. 00:02:24.014 --> 00:02:24.874 As of this recording. 00:02:25.404 --> 00:02:30.364 But anything else that I was trying to have it do on the things that I was 00:02:30.374 --> 00:02:34.814 looking for, like, I don't know, even analyzing data, throwing a spreadsheet at 00:02:34.814 --> 00:02:38.754 it and asking it certain questions, and I'd say even like six months ago when I 00:02:38.754 --> 00:02:41.604 started getting into it, at least with Claude, asking it to code some stuff 00:02:41.604 --> 00:02:43.414 for me, it just wasn't really working. 00:02:45.344 --> 00:02:51.104 For me, and fast forward six months, I've made a lot more headway probably 00:02:51.104 --> 00:02:52.364 because the tools are getting better. 00:02:52.574 --> 00:02:56.234 There is one tool that I started to use, which is like literally life 00:02:56.234 --> 00:02:58.884 changing, which I just discovered over the, over the weekend. 00:02:59.304 --> 00:03:04.184 But all of this is to say is like, it still is just doing 00:03:04.184 --> 00:03:05.814 the things I'm asking it to do. 00:03:06.469 --> 00:03:11.789 Writing words is doing good, writing code seemingly is doing great, because 00:03:11.789 --> 00:03:13.139 the shit that I'm building is working. 00:03:13.559 --> 00:03:17.809 but I don't, it's not really helping me or guiding me if 00:03:17.809 --> 00:03:19.239 I'm making the right decisions. 00:03:19.894 --> 00:03:23.194 In other words, there still has to be a layer of human 00:03:23.194 --> 00:03:24.504 interaction with this stuff. 00:03:25.084 --> 00:03:28.454 which I think anyone taking it serious, will know that. 00:03:28.674 --> 00:03:32.054 and certainly if you're doing it for your business, like if you're in marketing, 00:03:32.054 --> 00:03:35.644 and, I don't know, you're trying to like make blog posts and pages for, for 00:03:35.644 --> 00:03:39.534 customers, or even write code for your WordPress website, I think at the end 00:03:39.534 --> 00:03:42.194 of the day, like, You're still going to need to know what the hell you're doing 00:03:42.564 --> 00:03:45.334 and understand the concepts right now. 00:03:45.334 --> 00:03:47.924 I'm totally lost with what I'm doing. 00:03:48.174 --> 00:03:52.184 I just keep smashing the prompts and it keeps giving me code. 00:03:52.504 --> 00:03:56.214 I try it, it works or it doesn't, and then I ask it to do it again. 00:03:56.244 --> 00:03:57.934 And then I just move on to the next step. 00:03:58.274 --> 00:03:58.494 It's. 00:03:59.074 --> 00:04:00.404 The worst way of doing it. 00:04:00.414 --> 00:04:03.624 It's like totally, unoptimized. 00:04:03.664 --> 00:04:09.274 I'm burning oil, and like, I am the world's problem with greenhouse gases 00:04:09.274 --> 00:04:14.454 right now, because I am making NVIDIA CPUs just, or NVIDIA GPUs just go nuts 00:04:14.664 --> 00:04:16.054 with the code that I'm trying to write. 00:04:16.074 --> 00:04:17.954 There's no optimization on my side. 00:04:18.324 --> 00:04:18.904 does that make sense? 00:04:18.904 --> 00:04:21.894 Like, I feel like it's still not there to like, just completely 00:04:21.894 --> 00:04:23.724 solve the world's problems. 00:04:24.324 --> 00:04:28.654 Mark: That is a really good example of probably where I would say most of the 00:04:28.654 --> 00:04:30.824 world is with these tools right now. 00:04:30.894 --> 00:04:33.584 I want to make some quick disclaimers and maybe just kind of continue 00:04:33.584 --> 00:04:34.544 to set the scene a little bit. 00:04:34.544 --> 00:04:37.144 The first disclaimer that I'm gonna make, I think I can speak for both of 00:04:37.144 --> 00:04:42.374 us when We say that we don't know how this stuff works technically at all. 00:04:42.824 --> 00:04:46.284 we can, we can pseudo describe how it works, right? 00:04:46.284 --> 00:04:49.834 It's basically just like they somehow coded something that went across the 00:04:49.834 --> 00:04:55.014 internet, so to speak, all the language data that we have and basically built kind 00:04:55.014 --> 00:04:57.024 of like a little bit of a language model. 00:04:57.294 --> 00:05:00.574 We could think of it as almost like a little working brain, but it doesn't 00:05:00.584 --> 00:05:03.494 really expand too much on things. 00:05:03.514 --> 00:05:05.894 I feel like we're maybe getting there, but it doesn't really expand on things. 00:05:05.904 --> 00:05:06.794 It's really just like. 00:05:07.314 --> 00:05:13.734 a model of data that it can pull from and accurately kind of like, like again, 00:05:13.814 --> 00:05:17.744 pseudo feel like a person that you're talking to or something like that. 00:05:17.744 --> 00:05:21.854 It's way better than a Google search, in a lot of ways because it has all that 00:05:21.854 --> 00:05:23.254 data and it can express it back to you. 00:05:23.254 --> 00:05:25.784 It's kind of like talking to a person and for people that are. 00:05:26.044 --> 00:05:29.044 Completely removed from technology. 00:05:29.044 --> 00:05:31.374 It's very new and very interesting and very cool. 00:05:31.374 --> 00:05:33.704 Once you play with it a little bit, you realize kind of what's going on. 00:05:33.704 --> 00:05:35.604 You realize some of the limitations and all that sort of stuff, 00:05:35.914 --> 00:05:37.124 but that's a big disclaimer. 00:05:37.734 --> 00:05:41.064 The other big disclaimer that I feel like that I can kind of say or set 00:05:41.064 --> 00:05:47.804 the scene here for, in, as of November of 2024, Claude Chachi BT Gemini. 00:05:48.004 --> 00:05:49.794 There's a ton of other ones obviously out there. 00:05:50.004 --> 00:05:53.304 None of them are, this is I think the big part and what you're 00:05:53.304 --> 00:05:54.314 kind of describing the beginning. 00:05:54.334 --> 00:05:56.244 They're not magic. 00:05:56.574 --> 00:05:58.184 They're not mind readers. 00:05:58.394 --> 00:06:01.754 They're not, independent like thinkers in any way. 00:06:01.784 --> 00:06:05.384 They are literally just assistance for the most part. 00:06:06.244 --> 00:06:09.364 The best way that in the way that I feel like in the last like month 00:06:09.364 --> 00:06:13.824 or two, I've really like stepped up my prompt engineering or just 00:06:13.824 --> 00:06:15.314 my utilization of these tools. 00:06:15.604 --> 00:06:19.734 And the mindset change that I had was like, this isn't magic. 00:06:19.814 --> 00:06:26.149 This is like my, If I was like a, senior marketing director or a senior developer 00:06:26.149 --> 00:06:31.079 or whatever, this is my junior sitting next to me and I can be like the manager 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.829 or more of the director and they can do some of the work and they're not 00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:34.989 going to be able to do the whole work. 00:06:35.029 --> 00:06:36.739 It's, it's actually kind of funny. 00:06:36.739 --> 00:06:40.229 I've thought about this many times and I'm like, I haven't, I don't have a extensive 00:06:40.239 --> 00:06:42.759 background in corporate environment, but it's almost kind of like that. 00:06:42.769 --> 00:06:45.209 It can just take the place a little bit of. 00:06:45.834 --> 00:06:49.744 The less senior I'm not, I'm not saying that we should like get rid 00:06:49.744 --> 00:06:50.714 of junior developers and stuff. 00:06:51.004 --> 00:06:53.844 I'm just saying like, that's the level of capability that this stuff has. 00:06:54.054 --> 00:06:58.324 But like you said, you ha it has to be directed by somebody kind of currently. 00:06:58.324 --> 00:06:59.424 It's not really. 00:07:00.249 --> 00:07:03.389 It's not really there yet, at least the way that most people use it. 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:06.309 And again, the biggest disclaimer of all is this just started. 00:07:06.309 --> 00:07:10.779 Like, like a few years ago max, so we are extremely early to this. 00:07:11.299 --> 00:07:13.629 And, that's why, that's why I'm making some of the content, because 00:07:13.629 --> 00:07:14.609 I know this is where it's headed. 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:16.179 Like, we're just going to keep getting crazier with this. 00:07:16.559 --> 00:07:18.344 Matt: Yeah, I was having a conversation with my brother. 00:07:18.644 --> 00:07:21.744 Who's been using chat GPT, for a little while. 00:07:21.744 --> 00:07:24.384 And he uses it much more for, coding stuff. 00:07:24.384 --> 00:07:26.704 And I talked to him a couple of weeks ago about this. 00:07:26.704 --> 00:07:29.994 And, you know, he was saying like, Hey man, this is, you know, change in the 00:07:29.994 --> 00:07:32.504 world, this is going to be, you know, totally, this is really going to make 00:07:32.504 --> 00:07:36.934 things weird over the next couple of years of how people are, whatever, 00:07:36.934 --> 00:07:40.294 just doing anything on the web, whether it's, you know, your search from 00:07:40.294 --> 00:07:43.794 search to creating content, to writing code, to interacting with other sites. 00:07:44.284 --> 00:07:46.084 and I agree with him. 00:07:46.854 --> 00:07:50.514 But I think at the top of this stuff, I feel like we're in the, the housing 00:07:50.544 --> 00:07:55.034 bubble, or like, a couple of years ago during COVID when like money was free and 00:07:55.034 --> 00:07:56.444 everyone was just like getting mortgages. 00:07:56.444 --> 00:07:59.914 It is like 2%, you know, you could do all this stuff and money was just out there. 00:07:59.914 --> 00:08:03.884 I feel like we're in that mode right now with AI where this stuff 00:08:03.884 --> 00:08:07.114 is still too cheap, like 20 bucks a month to do what I'm doing. 00:08:07.614 --> 00:08:09.204 I can't see that sustaining. 00:08:09.374 --> 00:08:09.654 Right. 00:08:09.674 --> 00:08:12.194 And I think what we're looking at is. 00:08:12.664 --> 00:08:17.814 In the near future, a lot of these sites either just like constantly ramping up the 00:08:17.814 --> 00:08:21.824 price like we see with freaking streaming services with everything, right, because 00:08:21.824 --> 00:08:28.604 they're burning cash and power, literally, and, inevitably, there'll be some, like, 00:08:28.714 --> 00:08:31.069 some major corporation needs to win. 00:08:31.299 --> 00:08:32.599 As it always does. 00:08:33.439 --> 00:08:36.039 And we're going to start to see like the tightening of like 00:08:36.049 --> 00:08:37.959 what's available at what cost. 00:08:38.259 --> 00:08:42.826 So the way I see it is all these guys, Claude, chat GPT. 00:08:42.826 --> 00:08:43.806 It was the only two I really use. 00:08:43.806 --> 00:08:45.806 I don't, I don't use Gemini or anything else really. 00:08:46.066 --> 00:08:49.491 But those two are just going to be like, All right, we're done. 00:08:49.621 --> 00:08:50.981 Like the free ride is over. 00:08:51.231 --> 00:08:54.131 It's either now minimally a hundred bucks a month, two hundred bucks 00:08:54.131 --> 00:08:57.721 a month Like what's the pressure point where people will pay up to? 00:08:58.631 --> 00:09:01.341 Or you're just not gonna get all this new cool shit that you're getting now 00:09:01.341 --> 00:09:05.101 for 20 bucks a month And that's really gonna that's when things will change 00:09:05.461 --> 00:09:09.781 I think dramatically with like who has access to what like what is your best 00:09:09.801 --> 00:09:12.111 AI and and can you afford to use it? 00:09:12.931 --> 00:09:14.661 I think is is is where we're headed. 00:09:14.671 --> 00:09:18.081 It's not gonna be like this commodity like we're like we're 00:09:18.491 --> 00:09:21.191 accessing today I mean could be wrong, but that's the way I see it 00:09:22.326 --> 00:09:26.086 Mark: Could be, I wish I knew who it was and if I find the video 00:09:26.086 --> 00:09:27.856 again, we can link it below. 00:09:27.856 --> 00:09:30.956 But there was a video, it was just a short, like a one or two, three 00:09:30.956 --> 00:09:33.936 minute video where this guy was saying that around the time that 00:09:33.936 --> 00:09:37.266 OpenAI, did they go private or public? 00:09:37.316 --> 00:09:38.486 I can't, whatever they did there. 00:09:38.726 --> 00:09:39.826 They had like a weird non 00:09:39.826 --> 00:09:40.816 Matt: profit at one point. 00:09:40.816 --> 00:09:41.476 Yeah. 00:09:41.476 --> 00:09:42.696 Sort Mullenweg 00:09:42.696 --> 00:09:44.826 Mark: and automatic stuff, like you're just like, what? 00:09:45.296 --> 00:09:46.436 Yeah, what happened there? 00:09:46.446 --> 00:09:50.966 but so, Around that time, somebody was, in this video that I saw, like, kind 00:09:50.966 --> 00:09:53.586 of like it was, I wish I could remember the argument entirely, but basically 00:09:53.586 --> 00:09:57.186 they said that they're not worried about basically what you described there 00:09:57.186 --> 00:10:01.636 because all, because everybody and their mother, it was so weird how this happens. 00:10:01.636 --> 00:10:04.686 Like we heard the word AI, we saw chat GPT, and then basically 00:10:04.726 --> 00:10:07.366 overnight, everyone started implementing these things. 00:10:07.366 --> 00:10:08.706 And it's strange how that happens. 00:10:08.716 --> 00:10:11.816 Sometimes it's like, you need one person to just be like, Oh, I figured it out. 00:10:11.816 --> 00:10:14.676 And then somehow, Even though you couldn't figure it out for many years. 00:10:14.686 --> 00:10:17.806 Now everybody is releasing their thing where they figured it out, I guess 00:10:17.806 --> 00:10:19.186 just reverse engineering or whatever. 00:10:19.186 --> 00:10:22.376 But, but because we're seeing that and all these things are cheap, 00:10:22.666 --> 00:10:26.376 they're thinking that everything is just going to continue to be cheap. 00:10:26.386 --> 00:10:29.516 Now, again, certainly at certain points, there's going to be more 00:10:29.516 --> 00:10:32.546 developments and maybe there'll be like more expensive, but then they'll come 00:10:32.546 --> 00:10:34.046 down and a more commoditized thing. 00:10:34.436 --> 00:10:37.936 I just don't think that this version of AI is ever really going to be 00:10:37.936 --> 00:10:41.386 like expensive because it's already cheap and it doesn't do anything. 00:10:41.386 --> 00:10:41.436 Bing. 00:10:41.776 --> 00:10:44.166 Completely groundbreaking. 00:10:44.166 --> 00:10:48.046 Like it's definitely a big shift, but it's not like you can just tell it to 00:10:48.046 --> 00:10:51.916 do something like, you know, we, we think about, I don't know if you've 00:10:51.916 --> 00:10:55.096 seen, obviously you've heard of Tesla and the cars and everything like that 00:10:55.096 --> 00:10:58.146 and everything you can do, but those are still like a premium ish product. 00:10:58.456 --> 00:11:01.016 I don't know if you saw the Tesla bots just like that. 00:11:01.026 --> 00:11:04.706 They, you know, showed like the, that level of stuff is. 00:11:05.116 --> 00:11:08.446 I feel like AI, I don't know, 0, whatever they call it, you know, 00:11:08.446 --> 00:11:10.876 whatever they're going to dub that, that's going to be the next thing. 00:11:10.876 --> 00:11:15.936 Once it starts moving into like hardware, I feel like, and physical items that 00:11:15.936 --> 00:11:20.936 are going to like actually enhance your life, like more physically rather than 00:11:20.936 --> 00:11:22.536 just the stuff that we can do digitally. 00:11:23.046 --> 00:11:25.496 I, that's when the world's really going to change. 00:11:25.506 --> 00:11:27.146 Like, cause everybody's going to see that. 00:11:27.176 --> 00:11:29.436 Like when you see robots walking around and things, it's like 00:11:29.456 --> 00:11:32.696 literally I robot from that Will Smith movie, that's going to be wild. 00:11:33.136 --> 00:11:33.376 But, 00:11:33.426 --> 00:11:34.636 Matt: Yeah, it doesn't it. 00:11:35.546 --> 00:11:36.576 Yeah, I agree. 00:11:36.596 --> 00:11:39.336 And I think we're we're missing this layer right now. 00:11:39.806 --> 00:11:44.316 And I want to talk about our experiences like coding in a moment, but we're 00:11:44.326 --> 00:11:45.996 missing this like connected layer. 00:11:46.056 --> 00:11:48.966 So like, what would AI be really great for? 00:11:48.981 --> 00:11:52.611 Well, I want it to look at my to do list. 00:11:52.851 --> 00:11:57.121 I want it to prioritize it based on like what I've prioritized in the past. 00:11:57.441 --> 00:12:01.751 I want it to, you know, recommend what my next steps are, right. 00:12:01.751 --> 00:12:04.011 To improve my productivity, right. 00:12:04.011 --> 00:12:07.831 Because you know, getting things done, like, you know, you have this to do list. 00:12:07.831 --> 00:12:11.531 It's like write the blog posts and you're like, okay, like, 00:12:11.711 --> 00:12:12.771 where do I start with this? 00:12:12.771 --> 00:12:16.311 Like, I want smart intelligence to like, look at my list. 00:12:16.546 --> 00:12:21.056 Break it down and then start to prompt me and say, here's what you should do next. 00:12:21.086 --> 00:12:25.296 Like these are, but it's not gonna, there's no AI to do that. 00:12:25.296 --> 00:12:27.076 And then you're just siloed into one. 00:12:27.126 --> 00:12:28.106 Mark: Let me stop you there for a second though. 00:12:28.106 --> 00:12:30.546 Do you, first question, and then there's a follow up. 00:12:30.566 --> 00:12:32.266 Do you think it can't do that right now? 00:12:32.276 --> 00:12:33.716 Do you believe that it can't, like from your experience? 00:12:33.726 --> 00:12:36.056 Or do you believe that you just don't have the tooling or 00:12:36.056 --> 00:12:37.841 you don't, I just don't think 00:12:37.841 --> 00:12:40.261 Matt: that I don't think that tooling exists. 00:12:40.581 --> 00:12:43.001 Like I don't want to give up my to do list app. 00:12:43.541 --> 00:12:45.221 I want it to work with it. 00:12:45.221 --> 00:12:47.571 And you know, we've seen some of these things like, I don't know 00:12:47.571 --> 00:12:50.191 if folks are just listening, I'll, I'll try to find it and link it 00:12:50.191 --> 00:12:51.721 up, but I know Claude launched. 00:12:52.176 --> 00:12:54.616 some new experimental thing, I don't think it's generally available yet, 00:12:54.616 --> 00:12:59.116 but it'll control your computer to do things like that's getting to the 00:12:59.116 --> 00:13:03.216 next level where like, yeah, okay, so now I can tell Claude, Hey, you know, 00:13:03.226 --> 00:13:06.236 prune my to do list to open up my email and start responding to that stuff. 00:13:06.236 --> 00:13:08.026 But I still think that's so far away. 00:13:08.216 --> 00:13:09.706 And then do you really trust. 00:13:10.526 --> 00:13:13.126 But back to that human interaction layer, like, do you trust the code 00:13:13.126 --> 00:13:14.176 that you're deploying to your server? 00:13:14.176 --> 00:13:15.866 Like you're gonna spot check it before you do that. 00:13:16.246 --> 00:13:21.126 and are you going to trust it to manage your, your to do list? 00:13:21.566 --> 00:13:24.316 you know, I, I don't know, but that, but yeah, I mean, once it 00:13:24.316 --> 00:13:27.126 gets incorporated into that layer. 00:13:27.516 --> 00:13:30.566 Yeah, I mean, I think productivity will, we're going to see a few years of 00:13:30.566 --> 00:13:32.396 like, wow, this is immense productivity. 00:13:32.976 --> 00:13:35.356 but then what are the next few years after that look like? 00:13:35.716 --> 00:13:36.156 Where? 00:13:36.586 --> 00:13:38.776 You know, it's starting to do things for you. 00:13:38.806 --> 00:13:43.856 And you're like, holy shit, like, do I get paid the same, you know, because of these 00:13:43.906 --> 00:13:45.106 efficiencies, you know, I don't know. 00:13:45.106 --> 00:13:47.526 It's, that's why, you know, again, shout out to my brother. 00:13:47.526 --> 00:13:49.376 I think he's looking at it going, things are going to get weird. 00:13:49.386 --> 00:13:52.916 But anyway, Let's just talk about our experiences with, 00:13:52.976 --> 00:13:55.456 with coding and, I'll start. 00:13:55.456 --> 00:14:01.606 So I, I have this idea for this web app and it's not even like something 00:14:01.606 --> 00:14:02.836 I'm making generally available. 00:14:02.836 --> 00:14:07.436 It's a, it's more of like a tool for myself, but I want it to operate, as a web 00:14:07.436 --> 00:14:10.896 app, one, because I want the challenge, but two, like, there's other ways that I 00:14:10.896 --> 00:14:12.156 can extend it and do some other things. 00:14:12.156 --> 00:14:14.006 But anyway, the point is, I was just like, all right, I'm 00:14:14.006 --> 00:14:14.966 gonna get more serious about it. 00:14:14.966 --> 00:14:16.976 Let me see if I can figure this stuff out because Claude 3. 00:14:16.976 --> 00:14:19.426 5 came out and I heard it was great for coding. 00:14:20.176 --> 00:14:23.776 So my first experience is just dump all these thoughts into Claude. 00:14:24.296 --> 00:14:25.226 Here's the idea. 00:14:25.766 --> 00:14:26.986 Here's what I want you to build. 00:14:27.856 --> 00:14:33.406 I had some direction, I asked it a few things because I do have a sort 00:14:33.406 --> 00:14:36.316 of a network operating background. 00:14:36.316 --> 00:14:40.026 So I was like, let's compare this to running on an AWS stack 00:14:40.396 --> 00:14:42.576 versus a CloudFlare stack. 00:14:42.916 --> 00:14:45.576 I've heard some great things about CloudFlare's efficiencies. 00:14:45.576 --> 00:14:46.866 I just don't know if it's as mature. 00:14:47.216 --> 00:14:49.296 So I asked it to like compare and contrast some of this stuff 00:14:49.626 --> 00:14:50.676 and I end up going to CloudFlare. 00:14:51.166 --> 00:14:53.916 Path because I just didn't want to use AWS for this. 00:14:54.206 --> 00:14:55.416 I don't even know if that's the right thing. 00:14:55.416 --> 00:14:56.606 So that's problem number one. 00:14:56.856 --> 00:15:01.826 I'm asking AI to like, give me advantages of, of both of these technical stacks. 00:15:01.826 --> 00:15:04.156 It said, you know, cloudflare is the most efficient. 00:15:05.126 --> 00:15:05.686 Okay. 00:15:05.916 --> 00:15:07.156 You know, so great. 00:15:07.486 --> 00:15:10.426 so I decided to go with that and then I just started dumping the ideas and 00:15:10.426 --> 00:15:14.296 like just hammering it with, like the questions and what I need it to do. 00:15:15.226 --> 00:15:20.486 And the first major lesson that I learned was these interfaces, you 00:15:20.486 --> 00:15:22.391 know, you go to Whatever it is, claude. 00:15:22.391 --> 00:15:24.291 ai, chat. 00:15:24.291 --> 00:15:25.771 openai, com. 00:15:27.021 --> 00:15:33.171 These interfaces, you just dump stuff into it, and it is just like this huge 00:15:33.301 --> 00:15:35.271 pool that you're just throwing stuff into. 00:15:35.561 --> 00:15:39.121 And what I found with Claude was, I just started burning all of the tokens. 00:15:39.131 --> 00:15:43.391 I'm a pro 20 bucks a month user, but I would reach my limit. 00:15:43.821 --> 00:15:47.611 In like an hour of asking it questions and having it code for me. 00:15:47.891 --> 00:15:51.291 So I found myself talking to it and the answers it was giving me. 00:15:51.291 --> 00:15:52.911 It was like, ah, it's like, it's guiding me. 00:15:52.931 --> 00:15:54.841 It's like saying, here's what you should do next. 00:15:55.011 --> 00:15:56.911 And then it would prompt me and say, well, you know, do you 00:15:56.911 --> 00:15:58.011 want to extend these features? 00:15:58.201 --> 00:15:59.361 Do you want more clarity? 00:15:59.361 --> 00:16:01.181 Like do you want, and I'd be talking to it like, yeah, man, 00:16:01.181 --> 00:16:02.771 give me more clarity because I don't know what the hell I'm doing. 00:16:03.361 --> 00:16:06.301 So it would give me these answers and extend upon it. 00:16:06.601 --> 00:16:06.911 But. 00:16:07.921 --> 00:16:12.851 It was just so much so fast that I was burning the, the, the tokens and then 00:16:12.851 --> 00:16:14.481 it would just say, Hey, you can't use 3. 00:16:14.481 --> 00:16:19.821 5 until whatever 2 PM, you know, it'd be like a four, three or four hour 00:16:19.821 --> 00:16:23.761 window and I'd have to like shut my laptop and be like, fuck, I can't 00:16:23.761 --> 00:16:25.431 talk to this thing anymore, right? 00:16:25.471 --> 00:16:28.621 But I, I could go to three or whatever, whatever it's called. 00:16:29.601 --> 00:16:32.181 And then, but the answers were just so vastly different. 00:16:32.771 --> 00:16:34.151 the experience was so different. 00:16:34.556 --> 00:16:38.936 To like ask it code and it didn't know like where it left 00:16:38.936 --> 00:16:40.456 off with my other conversation. 00:16:40.456 --> 00:16:41.836 So that was super frustrating. 00:16:42.186 --> 00:16:46.056 But the first lesson I learned was you still have to be dialed in. 00:16:46.626 --> 00:16:50.896 Otherwise you're just at least with Claude anyway, you're going to burn through those 00:16:50.896 --> 00:16:54.916 tokens, you know, just asking a zillion questions and having it talk to you. 00:16:55.996 --> 00:16:56.746 If that makes sense. 00:16:57.511 --> 00:16:57.981 Mark: No, yeah. 00:16:57.981 --> 00:17:01.251 And if you, if you've, if you've tried Claude, I would recommend you take a 00:17:01.251 --> 00:17:04.041 look at it, but what Matt's describing there, what you're describing, yeah, it's, 00:17:04.081 --> 00:17:06.401 it's entirely, it's entirely like that. 00:17:06.401 --> 00:17:10.291 So I made a couple of videos, maybe two months ago at this point where I 00:17:10.291 --> 00:17:13.871 was just diving into this concept of literally maybe my first times using 00:17:13.871 --> 00:17:16.041 Claude and trying to code when I did that. 00:17:16.041 --> 00:17:18.121 I had that exact same experience that you had. 00:17:18.151 --> 00:17:18.681 I was like. 00:17:19.101 --> 00:17:20.031 What the fuck? 00:17:20.101 --> 00:17:23.421 I, I have all these questions still and like, I, I can't do 00:17:23.421 --> 00:17:24.771 this until tomorrow or whatever. 00:17:25.261 --> 00:17:26.761 I'm not sure if there's a way around that. 00:17:26.761 --> 00:17:28.221 I don't know if you can buy more tokens. 00:17:28.491 --> 00:17:33.801 one piece of one thought there though, is that whatever you're spending to 00:17:33.801 --> 00:17:37.021 get that information, you absolutely would have spent way more money trying 00:17:37.021 --> 00:17:38.501 to get somebody to do it for you. 00:17:38.541 --> 00:17:39.021 Like, sure. 00:17:39.031 --> 00:17:41.481 So, I mean, just to keep that in perspective, but I, but again, it's, 00:17:41.491 --> 00:17:43.291 it's, your point is completely taken. 00:17:43.291 --> 00:17:44.771 Like that's kind of annoying where we're at right now. 00:17:45.051 --> 00:17:46.441 I do think it's probably a bit of. 00:17:46.941 --> 00:17:50.831 Again, where we're at right now, so to speak, with again, being extremely 00:17:50.831 --> 00:17:53.731 early, but the fact that you can do it, you know, we could stick on 00:17:53.731 --> 00:17:55.361 that and that's like the main piece. 00:17:55.841 --> 00:18:00.551 What I've learned from my second go around with this video that I just posted 00:18:00.591 --> 00:18:04.941 today as recording this, it's like an hour and a half long video and I did it 00:18:05.171 --> 00:18:06.711 and I did it specifically in two ways. 00:18:06.721 --> 00:18:09.131 The first part of it was just kind of me explaining what I was doing and 00:18:09.161 --> 00:18:12.261 the finished product and then the back half hour or whatever is me literally. 00:18:13.021 --> 00:18:14.871 In Claude, like playing around building it. 00:18:15.681 --> 00:18:19.651 So there's a, there's a bunch of little gold nuggets in there, but a couple of 00:18:19.651 --> 00:18:23.011 the ones that I found was, if you're going to do this, you have to realize 00:18:23.011 --> 00:18:26.381 like you have to continuously get better at being a prompt engineer. 00:18:26.631 --> 00:18:30.181 You have to understand that, like, you have to give it all that information. 00:18:30.521 --> 00:18:35.351 You have to ask it to ask you questions, like prompt it to ask you questions 00:18:35.371 --> 00:18:37.141 and particularly one at a time too. 00:18:37.141 --> 00:18:38.741 So you can just like kind of have a conversation. 00:18:39.121 --> 00:18:40.831 There's a little bit of stuff in there about like, you know, 00:18:40.831 --> 00:18:41.911 saving tokens and all that. 00:18:42.931 --> 00:18:46.691 The first time I did it, this is a really big one, the first time I did 00:18:46.691 --> 00:18:49.211 it, when, it'll give you, let's say you're just making a simple WordPress 00:18:49.211 --> 00:18:53.911 plugin, so, it codes a bunch of stuff for you, it outputs the files and the nice 00:18:53.911 --> 00:18:56.991 little art, artifacts, feature things, so you can kinda see it and everything 00:18:56.991 --> 00:18:59.461 like that, you can download the files, you can save them into your, on your 00:18:59.461 --> 00:19:00.741 computer directories and all that. 00:19:01.261 --> 00:19:05.801 If you ask it to change something or it has to rewrite it, what it, I think 00:19:05.801 --> 00:19:10.741 what it does on purpose is only gives you part of the file back because 00:19:10.771 --> 00:19:11.921 I think that's just less tokens. 00:19:11.921 --> 00:19:13.021 It doesn't want you to rewrite everything. 00:19:13.161 --> 00:19:15.701 I was telling it, no, I don't, I want you to rewrite the whole thing for 00:19:15.701 --> 00:19:16.881 me so I can just copy and paste it. 00:19:17.176 --> 00:19:19.396 Not really a good idea because you're going to burn a shit ton more. 00:19:19.656 --> 00:19:20.326 That's what I was doing 00:19:20.326 --> 00:19:20.576 Matt: too. 00:19:20.626 --> 00:19:21.326 I was just, this 00:19:21.326 --> 00:19:21.966 Mark: is what I mean. 00:19:21.966 --> 00:19:26.756 Like you have to be the senior developer and it's the junior developer. 00:19:26.756 --> 00:19:29.146 Like you're still working, you're just guiding it and 00:19:29.146 --> 00:19:30.116 it's doing a lot of this stuff. 00:19:30.116 --> 00:19:31.986 So that's one, that's one thought in my mind. 00:19:32.296 --> 00:19:34.386 we can talk about like, you know, is the code good or not? 00:19:34.666 --> 00:19:37.796 I think that if you're doing something relatively ubiquitous, it's going to 00:19:37.796 --> 00:19:41.781 be pretty good because it's not, unless it's hallucinating, which I don't know. 00:19:43.241 --> 00:19:46.471 Hopefully you can kind of tell maybe sometimes, but I don't know. 00:19:46.511 --> 00:19:48.301 You definitely probably want to get the shit vetted. 00:19:48.331 --> 00:19:49.001 Let me just say that. 00:19:49.001 --> 00:19:53.471 But the one other piece of it is you mentioned where you're just kind 00:19:53.471 --> 00:19:54.971 of dumping everything into a pool. 00:19:55.001 --> 00:19:58.251 The one cool thing that I've found with Claude is it has a projects feature. 00:19:58.261 --> 00:20:01.961 I don't know what plan it's on or whatever, but that kind of like where 00:20:02.131 --> 00:20:06.291 we're not at yet and kind of, they're kind of not there is think about 00:20:06.291 --> 00:20:09.501 like these LLMs of having like a big language model that they've scraped 00:20:09.501 --> 00:20:11.311 the internet and looked through all the data and everything like that. 00:20:11.311 --> 00:20:11.501 Okay. 00:20:11.531 --> 00:20:12.581 That's the whole LLM. 00:20:12.956 --> 00:20:16.156 What I want though, and I've tried this and I haven't like put it, I haven't 00:20:16.156 --> 00:20:17.576 made a video or anything too much yet. 00:20:17.786 --> 00:20:23.096 What I want to do is the LLM doesn't know what I want in this project or maybe 00:20:23.096 --> 00:20:25.696 like about me or my business or whatever. 00:20:26.026 --> 00:20:29.366 The secondary piece of this, and people have been doing this on like, if you've 00:20:29.366 --> 00:20:33.206 ever seen somebody do like a personal AI chat bot where they basically 00:20:33.216 --> 00:20:37.696 recreate themselves so people can ask questions and answer like they're, you 00:20:37.696 --> 00:20:39.046 need to, what we all should be doing. 00:20:40.111 --> 00:20:41.931 This is a really good piece of content actually that I should write. 00:20:42.351 --> 00:20:46.511 But, we all were like building our Facebook pages or our LinkedIn's 00:20:46.521 --> 00:20:48.071 or our websites or our blogs. 00:20:48.071 --> 00:20:51.961 What we need to be doing now is like building our own personal LLM. 00:20:52.321 --> 00:20:54.271 Where it's like everything about us. 00:20:54.331 --> 00:20:57.441 So at any point like we could call in or somebody else could call 00:20:57.461 --> 00:20:59.301 into that and like get the answer. 00:20:59.601 --> 00:21:04.941 Because that is like, I feel like, maybe 75 area of where we need 00:21:04.941 --> 00:21:05.981 to go with some of this stuff. 00:21:06.311 --> 00:21:09.941 Because then, if you can do that, you can create that, your own little 00:21:09.951 --> 00:21:14.011 segmented thing there, then now you've added more information to it, kind 00:21:14.011 --> 00:21:14.881 of like how you're doing, right? 00:21:14.881 --> 00:21:17.711 Like, you threw all that information in there, and if you could silo that, 00:21:17.721 --> 00:21:19.521 you could always come back to that. 00:21:19.956 --> 00:21:23.056 I know they do it in the chat formats, but the projects thing is a separate thing. 00:21:23.336 --> 00:21:25.176 You could always come back to that and you could always 00:21:25.176 --> 00:21:26.866 continue that that piece of it. 00:21:27.106 --> 00:21:30.626 So a lot of stuff there but that's been my experience a couple little tips that 00:21:30.626 --> 00:21:33.326 i've found so far in my short journey. 00:21:33.576 --> 00:21:37.046 Matt: Yeah, I started I Purposely started in a project like when I got 00:21:37.046 --> 00:21:38.596 more serious about building this app. 00:21:38.666 --> 00:21:46.076 I started in a cloud project and I I I still find it lacking in You 00:21:47.416 --> 00:21:50.856 it, especially when you hit, I have to just get better at understanding 00:21:50.856 --> 00:21:52.306 like how the, how this stuff works. 00:21:52.306 --> 00:21:55.546 But if you start a chat, let's say with 3. 00:21:55.546 --> 00:21:57.526 5, sonnet, I believe is what it's called. 00:21:58.166 --> 00:21:58.446 Yeah. 00:21:58.806 --> 00:21:59.026 Yeah. 00:21:59.026 --> 00:21:59.326 Sonnet. 00:21:59.716 --> 00:22:02.526 which is there at this point, they're most advanced, that is 00:22:02.706 --> 00:22:04.046 accessible to average users. 00:22:04.376 --> 00:22:07.056 You start that chat, you start, you know, going down the road of like, okay, build 00:22:07.056 --> 00:22:11.996 me this, this script and, I'm building something, again, runs on CloudFlare. 00:22:12.386 --> 00:22:17.196 CloudFlare has workers, which is, I don't know, the way that I understand it, the 00:22:17.196 --> 00:22:23.296 way that I've always perceived it as, is like a serverless code architecture. 00:22:23.306 --> 00:22:28.506 Basically, I can run tiny, tiny, tiny little operating systems that 00:22:28.566 --> 00:22:29.331 will run these, these scripts. 00:22:29.611 --> 00:22:30.341 these commands. 00:22:30.861 --> 00:22:35.361 So I have to build this big script that does all these API. 00:22:35.641 --> 00:22:38.761 Endpoints and routes and connections and all this other stuff. 00:22:39.551 --> 00:22:41.701 And if I'm chatting with it, 3. 00:22:41.701 --> 00:22:43.181 5 saw on it, I'm improving it. 00:22:43.211 --> 00:22:44.521 I'm adding API endpoints. 00:22:44.521 --> 00:22:45.121 I'm testing it. 00:22:45.151 --> 00:22:46.421 I'm building it, deploying it. 00:22:47.001 --> 00:22:50.711 And then I run out of tokens and it's okay. 00:22:50.711 --> 00:22:52.371 You can't talk to me until four o'clock. 00:22:53.231 --> 00:22:57.761 I can't like back out to the pro like air quotes, back out to the 00:22:57.761 --> 00:23:03.821 projects folder and then pick up on it with like version, you know, LLM 3. 00:23:03.821 --> 00:23:03.921 0. 00:23:04.231 --> 00:23:08.341 And say, okay, let's reference this file that we've been building over here with 3. 00:23:08.341 --> 00:23:09.161 5. 00:23:09.761 --> 00:23:11.601 And now like, let's continue building this. 00:23:11.621 --> 00:23:15.261 It just, it has no idea on how to do that. 00:23:15.271 --> 00:23:18.141 Or unless I'm just maybe not prompting it well enough. 00:23:18.381 --> 00:23:19.631 I mean, it creates the artifact. 00:23:19.631 --> 00:23:20.091 You see it. 00:23:20.091 --> 00:23:21.951 This is getting like really inside baseball here. 00:23:21.951 --> 00:23:25.741 But if you use Claude, folks who are listening and use Claude, 00:23:25.741 --> 00:23:26.511 you know what I'm talking about. 00:23:26.761 --> 00:23:31.711 You have like the previous files that it's created in the project that you 00:23:31.711 --> 00:23:33.171 can click on at any time and see. 00:23:33.761 --> 00:23:37.051 Even with the name, because it gives it a name, or you can actually tell it, give 00:23:37.051 --> 00:23:40.701 it this name, and you try to reference it, it still has no freaking idea. 00:23:41.621 --> 00:23:43.981 Which is one of like the most aggravating things for me. 00:23:43.981 --> 00:23:48.331 Unless I, unless their projects don't work the same as I thought they did, or 00:23:48.341 --> 00:23:51.851 it just simply has no idea because the 3. 00:23:51.851 --> 00:23:53.311 5 stuff was way more advanced. 00:23:53.591 --> 00:23:55.231 Like the, let me backtrack. 00:23:55.271 --> 00:23:56.101 If you're asking 3. 00:23:56.101 --> 00:23:59.401 5 to code something for you, it is literally like having somebody sit 00:23:59.401 --> 00:24:01.311 alongside of you and talk to you. 00:24:01.711 --> 00:24:03.341 Like, it explains everything. 00:24:03.831 --> 00:24:09.346 It Asks you what you want to do next, suggests things that you should 00:24:09.356 --> 00:24:12.586 be doing, you know, next, for like features you're like, Oh shit, I 00:24:12.586 --> 00:24:13.666 never even thought about that feature. 00:24:13.666 --> 00:24:14.796 And you're like, wow, this is amazing. 00:24:15.286 --> 00:24:19.386 And then as soon as you go to like three, it's like the baseline one, 00:24:19.396 --> 00:24:20.536 it's just like, here's the code. 00:24:20.616 --> 00:24:21.656 It doesn't say anything else. 00:24:21.926 --> 00:24:23.426 And it's just like, shit, man, what the hell happened? 00:24:23.426 --> 00:24:25.986 You were so nice to me in this other chat and now we got nothing. 00:24:26.436 --> 00:24:27.456 it's vastly different. 00:24:27.806 --> 00:24:32.806 And, so what I started to do it too is like, yes, I started to, as I understood 00:24:32.846 --> 00:24:34.546 the limitations I was running up against. 00:24:35.496 --> 00:24:38.746 I started, you know, making the requests a little bit smaller. 00:24:39.156 --> 00:24:42.066 And then in the, I forget what it's called. 00:24:42.116 --> 00:24:43.316 let's see if I can pull it up really quick. 00:24:43.506 --> 00:24:44.926 There's instructions I think you can set. 00:24:44.926 --> 00:24:46.096 I think it's called instructions. 00:24:46.096 --> 00:24:47.726 Yeah, 00:24:50.686 --> 00:24:52.326 set custom instructions for the project. 00:24:52.326 --> 00:24:55.701 So in the upper right hand corner in the project, It says, 00:24:55.701 --> 00:24:56.881 how should Claude respond? 00:24:57.631 --> 00:25:03.111 I said that I'd profiled myself and I said, before writing a lot of 00:25:03.161 --> 00:25:07.811 code, please explain quickly what you'll be doing before, before I can 00:25:07.821 --> 00:25:10.001 confirm or so I can confirm, right? 00:25:10.011 --> 00:25:15.971 So basically don't burn those credits or tokens by writing a shitload of code. 00:25:16.291 --> 00:25:19.331 Tell me what you're going to do first and then I'll approve it. 00:25:19.411 --> 00:25:21.681 And even that didn't work all the time. 00:25:22.001 --> 00:25:24.801 It did when I asked it bigger things and it would like bullet 00:25:24.981 --> 00:25:26.211 point some features it might do. 00:25:26.601 --> 00:25:29.611 You know, it, you know, it would ask me it was, it was like hit or miss with that. 00:25:29.901 --> 00:25:33.131 And I have another one in the instructions that says when writing code, please 00:25:33.131 --> 00:25:34.831 use good inline documentation. 00:25:35.081 --> 00:25:36.721 I'm a beginner level developer. 00:25:36.731 --> 00:25:41.281 It helps me find the areas you need me to update because what was happening was it 00:25:41.281 --> 00:25:43.041 would suggest those changes to the code. 00:25:44.241 --> 00:25:48.351 Like you said, instead of like writing out 800 lines of code every single time, which 00:25:48.351 --> 00:25:51.991 was a complete list of the file, it would say, just update these these sections. 00:25:53.641 --> 00:25:55.631 And I'm like, fuck, I don't even know, where do I find this section, 00:25:55.631 --> 00:25:57.791 you know, where the hell is that at? 00:25:57.951 --> 00:26:02.001 So, I'm trying to say, look, like, really document this, and help me 00:26:02.001 --> 00:26:04.441 understand where it needs to go later on. 00:26:04.801 --> 00:26:09.481 So, again, hit or miss with that, I wish it was a little bit, a little bit better. 00:26:10.971 --> 00:26:15.111 Mark: Yeah, I mean, again, I've had similar things, and it probably, it 00:26:15.111 --> 00:26:20.291 sounds like what you're trying to achieve is probably more, more robust and more 00:26:20.301 --> 00:26:22.741 advanced than what I was trying to achieve in that video, specifically. 00:26:22.741 --> 00:26:29.391 But really, that was like building a I think that maybe had maybe seven files, 00:26:29.561 --> 00:26:30.811 eight files or something like that. 00:26:31.331 --> 00:26:33.741 so I'm not sure if there's more, if there's more to it, but I mean, if you 00:26:33.741 --> 00:26:37.021 have more functionality than your files are just getting bigger, it's more tokens. 00:26:37.021 --> 00:26:38.661 It's more decisions. 00:26:38.661 --> 00:26:39.401 It's more features. 00:26:39.401 --> 00:26:40.371 It's all that sort of stuff. 00:26:40.871 --> 00:26:42.201 but I mean, I don't know. 00:26:42.231 --> 00:26:44.541 I'm, I'm bullish on it to this point, cause I think it's pretty 00:26:44.541 --> 00:26:46.621 incredible what we can do so far. 00:26:47.171 --> 00:26:50.151 But all of the feedback that you're giving, I'm sure like a lot of other 00:26:51.516 --> 00:26:55.776 And like, I don't know, the thing, the thing with this is the part that 00:26:55.776 --> 00:26:58.786 confuses me the most is how you actually make something like this better. 00:26:59.296 --> 00:27:04.316 Like, like I I've, I've, I mean, if we want to go off topic of coding, 00:27:04.316 --> 00:27:06.596 I don't know if you have more on the coding stuff specifically, but just 00:27:06.596 --> 00:27:10.256 like other use cases, I've actually found a ton of ways that I've used 00:27:10.416 --> 00:27:14.746 like Claude specifically and a chat, CPT and Gemini to certain cases. 00:27:14.746 --> 00:27:18.156 Like I have a laundry list of things now, just the past two months that I've 00:27:18.156 --> 00:27:22.486 used this stuff for that has actually made a difference, I would All of my 00:27:22.486 --> 00:27:25.826 workflows and my just thought processes and the way that I work on things. 00:27:26.566 --> 00:27:28.546 Matt: let me just wrap up on some of this coding stuff. 00:27:28.546 --> 00:27:32.776 Cause the, so then, so what happened next is like, here's the things I don't know. 00:27:32.786 --> 00:27:37.976 I'm way out of my league on, on, on what I'm coding, right? 00:27:37.976 --> 00:27:41.096 It's, it's pure JavaScript, you know? 00:27:41.746 --> 00:27:44.816 I mean, I'm actually, I can understand some of it now, right? 00:27:44.816 --> 00:27:49.336 Because I've literally been neck deep in it and it's actually a great education 00:27:49.336 --> 00:27:51.136 process, sort of like reminds me of. 00:27:52.006 --> 00:27:57.216 learning WordPress all over again, which is cool, but way out of my league 00:27:57.416 --> 00:27:59.136 in terms of like what it's developing. 00:27:59.606 --> 00:28:01.956 So I found, an app called cursor. 00:28:02.306 --> 00:28:03.626 Have you run into this? 00:28:03.646 --> 00:28:03.666 I've 00:28:03.676 --> 00:28:04.086 Mark: heard of it. 00:28:04.086 --> 00:28:04.776 I haven't used it yet 00:28:05.636 --> 00:28:10.346 Matt: because when I was coding, like when I initially started this 00:28:10.346 --> 00:28:14.376 project, I'm like, I got to start like a whole local development environment. 00:28:14.376 --> 00:28:16.506 I haven't done that in years. 00:28:16.506 --> 00:28:22.531 And when I did it for WordPress, WordPress is so easy. 00:28:22.571 --> 00:28:24.841 Like it's so, you know, I guess it's the good and bad of 00:28:24.841 --> 00:28:26.381 WordPress because it's so archaic. 00:28:26.381 --> 00:28:29.561 It's my SQL, PHP and HTML, right? 00:28:29.561 --> 00:28:33.531 And CSS and of course now JavaScript, but the essence of it is like you can get a 00:28:33.531 --> 00:28:35.341 local environment up pretty damn easy. 00:28:36.091 --> 00:28:37.661 Whereas with like this stuff. 00:28:38.976 --> 00:28:42.446 Yeah, package installers, NPM install, like you're building all this 00:28:42.446 --> 00:28:44.166 stuff, then you have to deploy it. 00:28:44.166 --> 00:28:46.666 You have to do all of this stuff to get this thing going. 00:28:46.876 --> 00:28:48.196 And then what are you coding in? 00:28:48.666 --> 00:28:50.516 So I've okay. 00:28:51.106 --> 00:28:54.456 Hey, hey, Claude, what's everyone using for coding? 00:28:54.736 --> 00:28:54.936 Right? 00:28:54.936 --> 00:28:56.006 And they're like, Oh, VS code. 00:28:56.186 --> 00:28:57.716 Okay, so I started using VS code. 00:28:58.076 --> 00:29:02.186 And then my mind is blowing up because I'm like, fine, man, I don't even 00:29:02.186 --> 00:29:05.276 know how to say like, then I just feel way out of my league because I'm 00:29:05.276 --> 00:29:06.656 like, this thing isn't set up right. 00:29:07.576 --> 00:29:09.436 I don't even know if I'm optimized right. 00:29:09.676 --> 00:29:10.786 Am I doing this correctly? 00:29:10.786 --> 00:29:14.086 and then I started hitting that wall of Claude. 00:29:14.286 --> 00:29:17.016 Now, over the weekend, I started making a lot of headway. 00:29:17.026 --> 00:29:17.796 Things were working. 00:29:18.026 --> 00:29:21.126 I built my, what's known as the Cloudflare worker. 00:29:21.176 --> 00:29:21.946 And it was working. 00:29:21.946 --> 00:29:24.546 And I could send data to these APIs. 00:29:24.546 --> 00:29:27.276 It would talk to other APIs and send me the information back that I needed. 00:29:27.656 --> 00:29:29.266 I was like, okay, I'm making headway. 00:29:29.616 --> 00:29:32.066 And then I was like, okay, now I need to make this a front end. 00:29:32.116 --> 00:29:34.771 Because I can't just do everything through the terminal. 00:29:35.111 --> 00:29:38.361 I need to be able to manage this in a web browser. 00:29:38.951 --> 00:29:42.071 And that's when the freaking wheels fell off because I was just like, 00:29:42.101 --> 00:29:45.541 Hey, Claude, build me a react app that connects up to all these APIs. 00:29:45.541 --> 00:29:46.491 I can do this stuff. 00:29:46.641 --> 00:29:47.461 And it was just. 00:29:48.271 --> 00:29:49.081 It was just a shit storm. 00:29:49.081 --> 00:29:54.651 I mean, 48 hours of like trying to just figure out how to deploy this to cloud 00:29:54.651 --> 00:29:57.101 flare is the problem with cloud flare. 00:29:57.141 --> 00:29:57.701 I don't know. 00:29:57.701 --> 00:29:59.551 Is a problem with my code probably. 00:29:59.861 --> 00:30:00.181 Right. 00:30:00.191 --> 00:30:01.511 So there's all this stuff happening. 00:30:02.341 --> 00:30:08.411 And, I found cursor and I don't even remember how I found it. 00:30:09.751 --> 00:30:13.871 I think I was like, I need to find an alternative to vs code because I just felt 00:30:13.871 --> 00:30:16.221 like, I'm, I just using the wrong tool. 00:30:16.221 --> 00:30:17.861 Like, I just can't do this stuff anymore. 00:30:18.351 --> 00:30:24.521 And then I found Cursor, and Cursor integrates directly with Claude. 00:30:25.846 --> 00:30:28.796 And the magic is it's not your tokens. 00:30:28.896 --> 00:30:29.866 It's their tokens. 00:30:30.286 --> 00:30:33.266 So I could just freaking pound away at this thing and just 00:30:33.276 --> 00:30:34.676 be like, here's the 900 lines. 00:30:34.836 --> 00:30:35.346 Look at it. 00:30:35.676 --> 00:30:36.426 Tell me what's wrong. 00:30:36.726 --> 00:30:37.926 All right, give me the update. 00:30:38.096 --> 00:30:39.396 Here's another 900 lines. 00:30:39.446 --> 00:30:41.196 Like, you know, give me another update. 00:30:41.336 --> 00:30:44.396 And that has solved it dramatically. 00:30:44.406 --> 00:30:48.556 And basically what it has stopped, what it has allowed me to do is in, in cursor. 00:30:48.666 --> 00:30:51.936 Now this is anyone who's like a proper dev is like freaking 00:30:51.936 --> 00:30:53.156 out flipping tables right now. 00:30:53.636 --> 00:30:53.936 But. 00:30:54.466 --> 00:30:56.366 I ask it to do something. 00:30:57.376 --> 00:31:00.346 It shows me the code like I was doing in my Claude web browser. 00:31:01.196 --> 00:31:05.956 And instead of me copying and pasting it into the file, you just say, apply it. 00:31:06.861 --> 00:31:10.181 And it writes it right in the file, right? 00:31:10.561 --> 00:31:13.141 So, I'm just like, oh yeah, all day man. 00:31:13.141 --> 00:31:15.731 Like, I just said, yes, yes, yes, yes. 00:31:15.751 --> 00:31:17.051 Like, this is all the code I want. 00:31:17.471 --> 00:31:21.801 and I finally got to a point where now I'm not using React anymore. 00:31:21.801 --> 00:31:23.701 I'm using another framework called Svelte. 00:31:23.981 --> 00:31:26.121 which is like a pure JavaScript play on it. 00:31:26.121 --> 00:31:27.531 It's supposed to be more efficient, yada, yada. 00:31:27.531 --> 00:31:27.971 I don't know. 00:31:28.001 --> 00:31:30.431 I'm like watching YouTube videos while I'm coding. 00:31:30.701 --> 00:31:32.651 I am You're not coding. 00:31:33.981 --> 00:31:34.731 I'm coding, man. 00:31:34.931 --> 00:31:35.211 You're prompting. 00:31:35.801 --> 00:31:36.381 You're prompting. 00:31:36.381 --> 00:31:36.931 I'm coding. 00:31:37.141 --> 00:31:38.151 This is the way that I see it is. 00:31:38.361 --> 00:31:39.501 I'm the guy with the idea. 00:31:40.011 --> 00:31:41.131 We're working together on this. 00:31:41.141 --> 00:31:41.841 It's a partnership. 00:31:42.281 --> 00:31:43.931 me, Claude, and, and Cursor. 00:31:44.441 --> 00:31:48.351 And I finally got to a point where I've, I've launched the app. 00:31:48.801 --> 00:31:52.721 It's the very basic iterations of it are, are working. 00:31:53.091 --> 00:31:56.741 but Cursor is really the thing that made me, you know, turn the, turn 00:31:56.741 --> 00:31:59.861 the corner, which has allowed me to. 00:32:00.571 --> 00:32:04.961 Now I use, so instead of like, working with like some of like the real inside, 00:32:04.971 --> 00:32:08.931 like if a big issue comes up, right, like, I'm talking about and I'm, I'm asking 00:32:08.931 --> 00:32:10.371 it to like help me style the front end. 00:32:11.591 --> 00:32:14.711 So instead of doing that, even in cursor, because you got this tiny 00:32:14.711 --> 00:32:20.251 little window, literally, I'll, I'll start asking chat, GPT and Claude 00:32:20.581 --> 00:32:21.911 what their recommendations are. 00:32:22.231 --> 00:32:24.461 So now it's like I have two different people in front of me. 00:32:24.946 --> 00:32:26.676 You know, big, big question, right? 00:32:26.676 --> 00:32:30.236 Like a big question, like what it was, should I use Tailwind or should I use 00:32:30.236 --> 00:32:31.866 like some other CSS framework, whatever. 00:32:32.616 --> 00:32:35.116 And I'll, I'll ask them both, see what the answers are. 00:32:35.746 --> 00:32:38.906 And then I'll aggregate that and then bring that into a cursor 00:32:38.906 --> 00:32:41.626 and be like, okay, here's where I think I should be going with this. 00:32:41.626 --> 00:32:42.286 What do you think? 00:32:43.971 --> 00:32:44.791 It'll give me the answer. 00:32:44.791 --> 00:32:51.121 And man, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a single person enterprise is what I am. 00:32:51.751 --> 00:32:52.141 Okay. 00:32:53.361 --> 00:32:55.211 I'm going to be launching so many apps, dude. 00:32:56.951 --> 00:32:58.011 It's not even going to be funny. 00:32:58.471 --> 00:32:58.831 Okay. 00:33:00.581 --> 00:33:02.211 All I have to say is WordPress is in trouble. 00:33:02.671 --> 00:33:03.701 Mark: Oh, WordPress is in trouble. 00:33:03.701 --> 00:33:03.951 Yeah. 00:33:04.631 --> 00:33:05.111 Oh my God. 00:33:05.191 --> 00:33:07.061 man, people are gonna be so mad about this. 00:33:07.161 --> 00:33:07.351 no, 00:33:07.471 --> 00:33:09.341 Matt: it does help me really appreciate. 00:33:10.041 --> 00:33:14.671 Like what wordpress has like really like even like I'm looking at it now, and 00:33:14.671 --> 00:33:19.111 I'm like holy shit There's a lot of like legacy stuff here, and I can understand 00:33:19.111 --> 00:33:24.381 why people who are on the cutting edge look at wordpress and go That's a joke 00:33:24.431 --> 00:33:29.651 like look at that dinosaur over there, but at the same time as an end user Like, 00:33:29.651 --> 00:33:33.341 imagine trying to do, like, imagine, Oh yeah, AI's gonna change all this stuff. 00:33:33.471 --> 00:33:34.661 You can just make your own WordPress. 00:33:35.841 --> 00:33:36.531 Ain't gonna happen. 00:33:36.821 --> 00:33:40.741 I mean, not anytime soon, and not to what you can do with WordPress, but it 00:33:40.741 --> 00:33:45.041 does also make me appreciate, like, what we have as, like, this little bottled 00:33:45.041 --> 00:33:46.741 up application that is WordPress. 00:33:47.341 --> 00:33:48.181 Mark: I got a lot of thoughts. 00:33:48.181 --> 00:33:50.631 The first one I have to say, though, is that I didn't realize 00:33:50.631 --> 00:33:51.711 it, It took less than a year. 00:33:51.711 --> 00:33:55.251 It took a week for you to be completely bullish on AI and be 00:33:55.251 --> 00:33:56.591 like literally a senior developer. 00:33:56.601 --> 00:33:57.771 That's amazing. 00:33:57.841 --> 00:33:59.591 I don't know if anybody's ever done that in a week. 00:34:00.111 --> 00:34:00.791 I'm gonna quickly go 00:34:00.801 --> 00:34:02.851 Matt: back to the CEO level in a moment, but I'm just like, 00:34:03.071 --> 00:34:03.851 you know, once I figure it out. 00:34:03.851 --> 00:34:04.521 Smart, smart. 00:34:04.891 --> 00:34:05.171 Mark: Yeah. 00:34:05.281 --> 00:34:08.981 Yeah, the one random question that I have that I don't know if we can really 00:34:08.981 --> 00:34:11.751 answer, but it would be good to get other people from the community to 00:34:11.751 --> 00:34:14.191 answer this is, We are not developers. 00:34:14.221 --> 00:34:15.501 I wouldn't classify myself. 00:34:15.501 --> 00:34:17.341 I don't think you'd classify yourself as developers, right? 00:34:17.341 --> 00:34:20.421 Like we know code here and there, just from being around, we know what 00:34:20.421 --> 00:34:24.551 stuff does, but we've never sat for eight hours, multiple times per week, 00:34:24.561 --> 00:34:27.491 per day, per year to like actually develop software or anything like that. 00:34:28.211 --> 00:34:29.441 We know enough to be dangerous. 00:34:29.441 --> 00:34:31.361 And now with Claw, we know enough to be really dangerous. 00:34:31.361 --> 00:34:35.841 So I'm wondering if. 00:34:36.931 --> 00:34:40.721 We're that camp, so to speak, like we're that archetype and we're seeing this 00:34:40.721 --> 00:34:43.641 and we're like, Oh shit, we could like build our own apps and stuff like that. 00:34:43.641 --> 00:34:44.871 Or like our own plugins. 00:34:45.001 --> 00:34:47.931 And it's like, we know the dangers kind of, if we're being honest with 00:34:47.931 --> 00:34:49.211 ourselves, but we're trying it. 00:34:49.221 --> 00:34:50.101 Cause it's interesting. 00:34:50.101 --> 00:34:50.701 We're trying to learn. 00:34:52.051 --> 00:34:56.661 I wonder if software developers, the other archetype, if they look at these things 00:34:56.681 --> 00:35:01.001 and they're leveraging, I wonder if like that, that, that, what you just described 00:35:01.001 --> 00:35:04.251 there with like Claude and cursor, I don't know this enough, and I'm sure there's. 00:35:04.611 --> 00:35:07.851 Videos and people doing this stuff, but I don't know if our, our software 00:35:07.851 --> 00:35:11.901 developers, you would think that if, if you put that into a software developer's 00:35:11.901 --> 00:35:15.971 hands, like the co pilot from GitHub or, you know, whatever, or whatever, whatever 00:35:15.971 --> 00:35:17.381 the, well, there's tons of them now. 00:35:17.821 --> 00:35:21.641 If you gave that to somebody like, are they just like flying at 00:35:21.651 --> 00:35:24.626 like, mock 10 now because that's 00:35:24.626 --> 00:35:26.226 Matt: where the biggest wins are for sure. 00:35:26.226 --> 00:35:26.646 Yeah. 00:35:26.756 --> 00:35:27.316 Mark: You know what I mean? 00:35:27.346 --> 00:35:30.906 So it's like, the thing is, it's not like only we have these 00:35:30.906 --> 00:35:32.116 tools, they have the tools too. 00:35:32.116 --> 00:35:33.796 So they're not in trouble or anything like that. 00:35:33.796 --> 00:35:35.226 I don't think that by any means. 00:35:35.556 --> 00:35:36.806 and they still know what they're doing. 00:35:36.806 --> 00:35:40.056 So it's like they can go faster and they know what they're doing. 00:35:40.306 --> 00:35:42.296 So it's like, if they run into the problems that you're having 00:35:42.296 --> 00:35:44.556 and I'm having, then it's like, Oh, I know exactly what to do. 00:35:44.556 --> 00:35:45.196 Boom, boom, boom. 00:35:45.226 --> 00:35:46.866 I know exactly what to tell it to do, dah, dah, dah. 00:35:46.866 --> 00:35:48.226 And, and they're off to the races. 00:35:48.546 --> 00:35:48.706 Yeah. 00:35:48.766 --> 00:35:50.716 Matt: I think that's where cursor is supposed to really win. 00:35:50.746 --> 00:35:53.386 I'm using it from a, I'm using it from. 00:35:54.366 --> 00:35:57.916 like it's chat features I feel like are supposed to be just an 00:35:57.916 --> 00:36:01.716 assist literally, whereas I'm using it to code the whole thing. 00:36:03.001 --> 00:36:06.241 They, from all the stuff that I've been watching and listening to people talk 00:36:06.251 --> 00:36:09.621 about how like amazing cursor is, is because it has like this auto complete 00:36:09.621 --> 00:36:14.481 feature, which if you know what you're doing, speeds it up like that 10 X level 00:36:14.711 --> 00:36:17.211 where you can start, like, if you know the code, you can start writing the code 00:36:17.561 --> 00:36:21.141 and then it'll start auto completing the code it thinks is going to come next. 00:36:21.631 --> 00:36:22.021 Mark: Oh wow. 00:36:22.421 --> 00:36:22.851 Matt: So. 00:36:23.316 --> 00:36:27.256 I don't even know what I'm doing, so I'm asking it to write stuff for me, and then 00:36:27.536 --> 00:36:29.026 that's what I'm, that's how I'm using it. 00:36:29.376 --> 00:36:33.236 Whereas like, man, if you know what you're doing, this thing is, you know, puts 00:36:33.236 --> 00:36:37.016 you on Mach 10, and then if you really have a question, then you can ask AI. 00:36:37.016 --> 00:36:40.016 So, yeah, like, it really helps that kind of person for sure. 00:36:40.556 --> 00:36:43.546 Mark: Yeah, I mean, just in general with the coding stuff, I love that 00:36:43.556 --> 00:36:46.526 these tools are available, it's awesome that they're available to anybody. 00:36:46.956 --> 00:36:48.586 I'm sure some people are going to be like, Well, you shouldn't 00:36:48.596 --> 00:36:49.566 be coding your own stuff. 00:36:49.586 --> 00:36:51.046 It's like, I mean, I don't know if you want to play around 00:36:51.046 --> 00:36:52.086 and you understand the risks. 00:36:52.086 --> 00:36:55.266 Like, in that video I say, like, I'll give you guys this code, but 00:36:55.276 --> 00:36:57.116 do not, do not hold me liable. 00:36:57.116 --> 00:36:59.186 Like, this is your own, you know, use it your own risk. 00:36:59.186 --> 00:37:01.756 Like, it's, it's there, but I don't know. 00:37:02.236 --> 00:37:05.356 You know, it's got an encryption class for like the API keys, but like, other 00:37:05.356 --> 00:37:08.236 than that, like, I have no idea what holes you could poke in this thing or 00:37:08.236 --> 00:37:12.086 anything like that, so I would always just say exercise caution there, but it 00:37:12.086 --> 00:37:15.586 is pretty incredible what we're able to do, and seemingly in such a short time, 00:37:15.586 --> 00:37:19.056 from when we went from like pretty much everything being like hand coded, so 00:37:19.056 --> 00:37:24.026 to speak, to now, you know, we have, we can get so much further so much faster. 00:37:24.056 --> 00:37:25.836 Us and people doing this professionally. 00:37:25.836 --> 00:37:27.296 It's, it's pretty, it's pretty insane. 00:37:27.296 --> 00:37:27.346 Yeah. 00:37:27.631 --> 00:37:27.901 Matt: Yeah. 00:37:28.621 --> 00:37:32.851 So how, what other areas are you using it in outside of content or coding? 00:37:33.401 --> 00:37:33.701 Mark: Yeah. 00:37:33.701 --> 00:37:36.681 So the other area would be like, so we're not coders, right? 00:37:36.681 --> 00:37:38.801 Like we said, but we are content creators. 00:37:38.831 --> 00:37:42.251 And I think that like you and I are probably similar, 00:37:42.301 --> 00:37:43.411 we're similar in that realm. 00:37:43.481 --> 00:37:48.671 So it's like, we know ways and we know the hangups and the limitations that creating 00:37:48.671 --> 00:37:50.581 content, like of creating content. 00:37:50.581 --> 00:37:50.821 Right. 00:37:51.051 --> 00:37:52.991 We don't really know the software side. 00:37:52.991 --> 00:37:54.661 So if we switch to this content side, it's like. 00:37:55.356 --> 00:37:58.836 How, how, how, how can we possibly speed this up? 00:37:58.836 --> 00:38:00.306 So I'm going to think of a bunch of different ways. 00:38:00.636 --> 00:38:04.076 The first way this is like, again, some of these are like small 00:38:04.076 --> 00:38:06.306 wins because they're not like groundbreaking things, but they're 00:38:06.306 --> 00:38:08.136 really like actually pretty awesome. 00:38:08.146 --> 00:38:12.296 Like if you stack them all up, first thing is, okay, so we record YouTube videos. 00:38:12.326 --> 00:38:13.536 I'm not going to do it in order. 00:38:13.536 --> 00:38:15.476 Cause I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'll just 00:38:15.476 --> 00:38:17.066 go from thinking about these. 00:38:17.506 --> 00:38:19.646 The first one is like, we record YouTube videos, right? 00:38:19.866 --> 00:38:21.926 And I like to put chapters in all my YouTube videos. 00:38:21.946 --> 00:38:23.476 I was literally doing this. 00:38:23.956 --> 00:38:26.636 Like I would watch the whole video back and put the chapters in. 00:38:26.726 --> 00:38:27.756 I don't have to fucking do that anymore. 00:38:28.146 --> 00:38:29.846 Like I, I upload the video. 00:38:30.176 --> 00:38:33.356 I wait maybe, sometimes it's right away depending on the length of the video. 00:38:33.576 --> 00:38:36.116 I took that whole hour and a half script. 00:38:36.836 --> 00:38:39.226 And ChatGPT, I tried to do this with ChatGPT, but a 00:38:39.226 --> 00:38:40.566 while ago, it's not as good. 00:38:40.606 --> 00:38:43.226 Claude is way better with like, pasting things in and maybe it's 00:38:43.226 --> 00:38:46.356 just the new model now, like more, it can just understand more. 00:38:46.826 --> 00:38:50.386 So I, I upload the video, I go to the bottom, show transcript, I copy that 00:38:50.386 --> 00:38:53.846 whole thing with the timestamps in it, I paste that into Claude and I say, Hey, 00:38:54.176 --> 00:38:59.416 give me YouTube chapters, one liners for it, just like formatted perfectly, and 00:38:59.416 --> 00:39:00.836 just give me chapters for these videos. 00:39:00.856 --> 00:39:03.336 And then I can even say, Hey, get a little more detailed if it doesn't 00:39:03.336 --> 00:39:04.706 give me enough for how it wants to do. 00:39:05.061 --> 00:39:09.261 That saves a shit ton of time, if you were gonna sit there and watch all of that. 00:39:09.341 --> 00:39:11.481 And that's just a small win, like I said, so there's that. 00:39:11.671 --> 00:39:14.381 You already mentioned things like explaining, you could, you could 00:39:14.381 --> 00:39:17.506 even say, I literally just tried this with the last couple of videos. 00:39:17.936 --> 00:39:18.726 Let's stick on that. 00:39:18.736 --> 00:39:21.796 Just from the transcript, it knows everything your video is about, right? 00:39:22.006 --> 00:39:23.616 And it's an expert at YouTube. 00:39:23.626 --> 00:39:27.426 If you tell it, it's an expert at YouTube, so you can get the subtitles from that. 00:39:27.446 --> 00:39:27.766 I'm sorry. 00:39:27.766 --> 00:39:29.656 You can get the chapters from that. 00:39:29.966 --> 00:39:33.901 You can tell it, give me 10 really good titles for this video. 00:39:34.261 --> 00:39:36.511 Based on just your knowledge of YouTube. 00:39:36.951 --> 00:39:39.591 So, and then I'm not saying like copy and paste that part. 00:39:39.601 --> 00:39:41.521 Like, I just need the ideas. 00:39:41.521 --> 00:39:43.311 Cause I'm not creative enough to think of the ideas. 00:39:43.641 --> 00:39:44.711 So like, give me the titles. 00:39:45.441 --> 00:39:46.821 I even experimented with this. 00:39:47.151 --> 00:39:49.871 I said, you already mentioned the description and stuff like that. 00:39:49.871 --> 00:39:53.281 So you could obviously get that, but the, I even experimented with, Hey, I 00:39:53.281 --> 00:39:55.961 know you for Claude, I know you can't. 00:39:57.041 --> 00:39:59.431 I know you can't generate images, okay? 00:39:59.471 --> 00:40:02.171 And we could talk about images cause that's like kind of another modal 00:40:02.171 --> 00:40:03.961 of this piece that's good and bad. 00:40:03.971 --> 00:40:05.381 Very hit or miss more than text. 00:40:06.071 --> 00:40:09.991 I know you can't generate images, Claude, but can you prompt? 00:40:10.461 --> 00:40:13.851 Some, another tool to generate a really good thumbnail for this, or at least 00:40:13.851 --> 00:40:16.501 give me some ideas and stuff like that, or what a good thumbnail would be. 00:40:16.701 --> 00:40:18.441 It does it, it doesn't do it great. 00:40:18.451 --> 00:40:19.771 Cause then I copied that. 00:40:20.041 --> 00:40:24.921 I took it over to Grok on a X cause it, cause I think Grok uses flux, which 00:40:24.921 --> 00:40:28.561 is probably like one of the best image generator generative things now, one 00:40:28.561 --> 00:40:32.261 of them and I put it over there and it didn't give me great stuff, but it gave me 00:40:32.261 --> 00:40:35.011 something that like, you know, maybe would spark a little bit, you know what I mean? 00:40:35.011 --> 00:40:37.991 But like, even with text, you can kind of get some ideas for imagery and things. 00:40:38.331 --> 00:40:38.711 So. 00:40:38.871 --> 00:40:41.911 Those are just some of the ways, like in YouTube, that I've sped up and at 00:40:41.911 --> 00:40:46.811 least gave myself way more ideas for things because, you know, those things 00:40:46.811 --> 00:40:47.981 are hard to come up with on your own. 00:40:47.981 --> 00:40:49.941 I mean, and it's, I don't know. 00:40:50.391 --> 00:40:53.051 Matt: Yeah, I mean, as an assist, it definitely helps. 00:40:53.381 --> 00:40:55.901 it still hasn't ever really knocked it out of the park for 00:40:55.911 --> 00:40:58.341 me for, for titles and stuff. 00:40:58.341 --> 00:41:03.876 I think it's still very baseline, but it does bring in, Like a different 00:41:03.876 --> 00:41:08.386 perspective and what I'll do is like ask like here's my here's the type of viewer. 00:41:08.386 --> 00:41:13.446 I'm hoping to To watch this video Whatever. 00:41:13.446 --> 00:41:17.136 It might be freelancer WordPress beginner or whatever It might be the keyword is 00:41:17.456 --> 00:41:21.956 and then like what would appeal to them and I and I use that as like ideation 00:41:22.316 --> 00:41:25.916 You know and other like like other words, you know, like what are other 00:41:25.916 --> 00:41:31.306 words I can use that are our keywords for this Yeah, all that stuff you know, 00:41:31.346 --> 00:41:36.326 works great for the chapters, because I use Descript, Descript just has 00:41:36.326 --> 00:41:38.346 chapters, a chapter thing built right in. 00:41:38.346 --> 00:41:41.736 So you just click it and it's still all AI chat GPT driven. 00:41:41.736 --> 00:41:44.616 But, you know, I've always found it to be a little bit more accurate because 00:41:44.616 --> 00:41:48.226 it has the whole video file, and it just, whatever, just does a better job. 00:41:48.316 --> 00:41:53.596 but, yeah, often I'll use, I'll use that and I use whisper AI as a, I 00:41:53.606 --> 00:41:55.046 think it only runs on Mac though. 00:41:55.266 --> 00:41:58.396 so Whisper AI, or Whisper Transcription is what it's called. 00:41:58.706 --> 00:41:59.306 on Mac. 00:41:59.336 --> 00:42:00.356 It's a Mac app. 00:42:00.746 --> 00:42:07.296 And, you can just drop in your video or, MP3 file, or any file, any media 00:42:07.296 --> 00:42:11.716 file, and ask it to transcribe it and then run the same commands on it. 00:42:11.716 --> 00:42:13.656 It's just like a local app. 00:42:14.046 --> 00:42:15.176 I'll use that from time to time. 00:42:15.526 --> 00:42:17.986 Mark: Yeah, the other thing I try to do, if you haven't done it, 00:42:18.321 --> 00:42:21.801 As much recently as I take the transcription because it's not great. 00:42:21.821 --> 00:42:23.991 I mean, maybe Descript already does this, but the transcript 00:42:23.991 --> 00:42:25.191 isn't great from YouTube. 00:42:25.651 --> 00:42:27.751 like it's the words, but it's not formatted well. 00:42:27.881 --> 00:42:30.951 So like the idea would be to take that text and put it on your website. 00:42:31.291 --> 00:42:32.871 So you could index that text. 00:42:33.161 --> 00:42:35.951 I'm not even sure as we move forward if that's even going to be completely 00:42:35.951 --> 00:42:40.311 necessary because it's probably going to just You know, somehow get, you know, 00:42:40.361 --> 00:42:44.561 SEO juice and ranking and any sort of index ability from like the actual words 00:42:44.571 --> 00:42:45.911 in the YouTube video at this point. 00:42:45.911 --> 00:42:47.991 But that's just another random thing. 00:42:48.501 --> 00:42:52.911 yeah, there's a, there's a lot of trying to think of anything else 00:42:52.911 --> 00:42:55.491 that I've, that I've tried to, I just literally hate making thumbnails. 00:42:55.531 --> 00:42:57.401 So I'm waiting for a really good thumbnail thing. 00:42:57.401 --> 00:43:01.501 I've explored, explored some GPTs, custom GPTs for that. 00:43:02.051 --> 00:43:04.851 but, Yeah, I don't know this is all kind of like very interesting and 00:43:04.851 --> 00:43:07.401 slightly kind of concerning at the same time because like at some point You 00:43:07.401 --> 00:43:11.381 know, I mean, I don't know if you've I don't know if you've Experimented 00:43:11.381 --> 00:43:17.371 with 11 labs and any sort of image or not not image but like voice like 00:43:17.381 --> 00:43:22.721 you can very very soon we're gonna be able to just like Make our own stuff. 00:43:22.731 --> 00:43:27.391 Like let's just generate our own things just from all of the the voice data we 00:43:27.391 --> 00:43:31.881 have of ourselves the the Video data we have of ourselves and then all the 00:43:31.941 --> 00:43:36.841 any LLM stuff that we've put together So it's gonna it is gonna get weird. 00:43:36.891 --> 00:43:40.801 I'm just hoping it doesn't get weird super soon or we could at least 00:43:40.811 --> 00:43:44.071 capitalize on it It's a lot of stuff. 00:43:44.311 --> 00:43:46.601 Matt: So are you still gonna build out that that plug in and 00:43:46.611 --> 00:43:49.311 continue like making plugins? 00:43:50.641 --> 00:43:53.111 For like sites that you're building out like what's the 00:43:53.111 --> 00:43:54.681 future for developing plugins? 00:43:55.581 --> 00:43:58.541 Mark: I mean, so that one specifically was, I was trying to 00:43:58.541 --> 00:44:02.881 create a automated via the YouTube API, just like automatically 00:44:02.921 --> 00:44:04.591 know when I'm live on my website. 00:44:04.591 --> 00:44:08.141 And I just created like custom it's an, it checks the YouTube API. 00:44:08.141 --> 00:44:10.201 It says, are you live or not? 00:44:10.241 --> 00:44:14.611 It gives a couple pieces of data that it pulls in, like the YouTube URL. 00:44:15.076 --> 00:44:15.946 And stuff like that. 00:44:15.946 --> 00:44:19.356 And then it, it can, it integrates specifically with bricks to like use 00:44:19.356 --> 00:44:23.296 all those things with dynamic tags and conditions works great, perfect. 00:44:23.786 --> 00:44:27.096 And in order to do all of that, I would have either needed to hire a 00:44:27.096 --> 00:44:28.526 developer or find a plugin that did it. 00:44:28.526 --> 00:44:31.316 So I think for very niche things like that, you're definitely, 00:44:31.801 --> 00:44:34.791 Probably very well off doing that. 00:44:35.191 --> 00:44:39.551 I'm thinking of, if you do like an analysis on like the ROI of doing 00:44:39.551 --> 00:44:42.721 something like that, just even personal ROI, like nothing's going to come 00:44:42.721 --> 00:44:44.311 along and like fix that right away. 00:44:44.541 --> 00:44:48.301 I would love to have a larger conversation on like where this is all going, 00:44:48.311 --> 00:44:51.861 because I don't, like I love WordPress and I love websites, but I don't think 00:44:51.861 --> 00:44:54.601 we're going to be on websites for the rest of our lives necessarily. 00:44:54.601 --> 00:44:56.341 I think there's going to be some more to that. 00:44:57.331 --> 00:44:59.671 just in like the different ways that we operate with things. 00:44:59.671 --> 00:45:06.251 Because to go back to, if you think about like the Google search era versus 00:45:06.261 --> 00:45:10.801 now the AI prompting era, I don't know about you, but there have been times very 00:45:10.801 --> 00:45:13.201 recently where I have not gone to Google. 00:45:13.221 --> 00:45:18.371 I've gone to like a chat GPT or a quad because I want, I don't want 00:45:18.371 --> 00:45:20.091 to go search for an answer anymore. 00:45:20.121 --> 00:45:23.621 I want the answer to kind of like come to me and I don't mean like 00:45:23.621 --> 00:45:24.981 I'm just going to take the answer. 00:45:26.101 --> 00:45:30.411 It's like it has all that information so we can explain it to you in a way that 00:45:30.421 --> 00:45:32.471 you're actually asking particularly for. 00:45:32.671 --> 00:45:33.751 I don't, I'm sure you've done this. 00:45:33.761 --> 00:45:35.841 Like you go and you have a very specific problem. 00:45:36.061 --> 00:45:38.791 So then you have to search Google and you have to go through like 10 links 00:45:38.791 --> 00:45:40.971 to find like maybe what the answer is. 00:45:41.281 --> 00:45:44.551 But with now it's like, it does that step for you in a lot of ways. 00:45:44.961 --> 00:45:48.301 And the other big thing that I do, this is one of the things I don't 00:45:48.311 --> 00:45:50.291 like about quad just yet, but I'm sure they're going to have it. 00:45:50.341 --> 00:45:55.931 I love chat GPT and Gemini, which is Google's for the conversational, cause 00:45:55.931 --> 00:45:58.621 you know, I hate text and this is a lot of reading that we're doing so far. 00:45:58.981 --> 00:46:02.031 So like, I'll like actually have a conversation with it and I'll be like, 00:46:02.031 --> 00:46:04.921 Hey, what do you think about this topic? 00:46:05.111 --> 00:46:08.011 Like I'll do this in preparation for like, you know, any sort of 00:46:08.031 --> 00:46:10.021 podcasting debate, like live topics. 00:46:10.021 --> 00:46:13.031 Like, Hey, you know, like what do you think about like open source? 00:46:13.031 --> 00:46:14.011 Do you think that's a good thing? 00:46:14.011 --> 00:46:16.961 A bad thing or whatever you can kind of like get a lot of ideas 00:46:16.961 --> 00:46:18.221 and a lot of different things that. 00:46:18.616 --> 00:46:21.756 You would have had to go read like a bunch of different people's opinions, 00:46:22.416 --> 00:46:26.406 but now it it's aggregated all that and it's just thrown in at you. 00:46:26.406 --> 00:46:27.976 I'm not saying just take it as face value. 00:46:27.976 --> 00:46:31.156 I'm saying like you can almost do like a little mock conversation or mock 00:46:31.156 --> 00:46:34.556 debate debate with these things and then you can do it from both sides too. 00:46:34.766 --> 00:46:37.216 And then you have all the perspectives and then you can create your own 00:46:37.216 --> 00:46:38.346 perspective and then you could. 00:46:38.696 --> 00:46:41.956 You know, go into the content or the, or the show or whatever with that. 00:46:41.956 --> 00:46:45.516 I mean, I've literally done that before just because of the ease of that. 00:46:45.576 --> 00:46:47.436 Like it's just, I'm just talking to my phone. 00:46:47.676 --> 00:46:48.956 Like it's, it's so easy. 00:46:49.396 --> 00:46:49.676 Matt: Yeah. 00:46:50.066 --> 00:46:50.346 Yeah. 00:46:50.406 --> 00:46:51.656 it's, it's certainly. 00:46:52.176 --> 00:46:55.656 you know, some, it's many different ways, you know, to, to use it. 00:46:56.026 --> 00:46:57.626 I was also thinking too, like while I was. 00:46:58.616 --> 00:47:00.756 Using cursor, I'd be like, man, if I could just talk to this thing, which 00:47:00.756 --> 00:47:03.946 it probably even has, I don't, I don't know if I could just like talk to this 00:47:03.946 --> 00:47:05.956 and, and explain what I, what I want. 00:47:06.356 --> 00:47:09.676 but I still have a lot of like uncertainty on, you know, what, 00:47:09.676 --> 00:47:10.946 what the answers are going to be. 00:47:11.196 --> 00:47:13.436 even from a, you know, I don't know. 00:47:13.476 --> 00:47:15.166 I like to see a ton of options. 00:47:15.266 --> 00:47:19.496 I don't mind sifting through it as long as that the options I have are, are, are 00:47:19.496 --> 00:47:21.836 close to, you know, giving me the answer. 00:47:22.331 --> 00:47:25.471 You know, argue if Google even still does that anymore. 00:47:25.471 --> 00:47:25.841 I don't know. 00:47:26.231 --> 00:47:28.881 but I don't mind like sifting through that, through that 00:47:28.881 --> 00:47:30.101 stuff, but I totally get it. 00:47:30.111 --> 00:47:31.571 Like, just give me the answer. 00:47:31.571 --> 00:47:39.821 I signed up for, only because Kevin Rose, from Dignation, he has, he's, I guess 00:47:39.821 --> 00:47:44.241 an advisor or his, the VC firm that he works for is invested in perplexity. 00:47:44.571 --> 00:47:46.481 and you could get a free year. 00:47:47.171 --> 00:47:50.461 Of Perplexity Pro, if you were on his email list. 00:47:50.981 --> 00:47:53.561 I've heard a lot of people talk about it, like, oh, it's like, you know, 00:47:53.561 --> 00:47:55.821 search results and all this stuff, and like, that's supposed to be the 00:47:55.821 --> 00:47:58.601 thing that really crushes Google. 00:47:59.551 --> 00:48:02.031 You know, I did it for, for this project that I'm working on. 00:48:03.231 --> 00:48:06.511 I mean, it didn't really give me anything that Claude and 00:48:06.511 --> 00:48:08.221 ChatGPT wasn't already giving me. 00:48:08.221 --> 00:48:12.241 I mean, it's a cool interface, and I'm sure it's like, if I was doing more, it 00:48:12.241 --> 00:48:14.841 would give me some feedback, better stuff. 00:48:14.881 --> 00:48:19.821 But once again, I'm just like, I'm not, I haven't tapped in to 00:48:19.821 --> 00:48:21.591 the full potential of this stuff. 00:48:22.081 --> 00:48:24.031 you know, effectively, I feel like I'm just getting started, 00:48:24.031 --> 00:48:26.121 but that's where that is. 00:48:26.421 --> 00:48:27.951 Mark: we're all just getting started, Matt. 00:48:28.301 --> 00:48:29.691 You know, it's kind of early. 00:48:29.691 --> 00:48:30.511 I'll just getting started 00:48:30.511 --> 00:48:32.781 Matt: and we're all just on the way out all at the same time. 00:48:33.381 --> 00:48:36.421 Mark: You know, I, that is a larger, larger topic. 00:48:36.461 --> 00:48:39.311 and I don't, I'm sure this has already happened though, kind of in history 00:48:39.311 --> 00:48:42.331 and waves, obviously not AI related, but again, like with so many other 00:48:42.331 --> 00:48:47.081 things, I think we're just going to have to continue to, I think that if 00:48:47.081 --> 00:48:50.761 we're talking about this now, we are perhaps potentially the best position. 00:48:50.761 --> 00:48:53.601 So I'm trying to get more people, you know, like just from this type of content, 00:48:53.601 --> 00:48:56.181 we can get more people think about this and understanding that it's real. 00:48:56.561 --> 00:49:01.591 The hope would be that we can, continue to leverage it for as much as we need to 00:49:01.591 --> 00:49:05.731 leverage it and then we could continue to evolve and adapt to Obviously fill 00:49:05.731 --> 00:49:09.031 in the gaps that like this thing, you know these types of things are going to 00:49:09.031 --> 00:49:12.971 do like we could there's always going to be a reason to You know continue to 00:49:12.971 --> 00:49:14.911 try to innovate and do other things. 00:49:14.921 --> 00:49:16.061 So I don't know. 00:49:16.111 --> 00:49:16.971 It's going to be interesting though. 00:49:16.971 --> 00:49:17.421 Regardless. 00:49:17.421 --> 00:49:20.451 Yeah, we'll see what we'll see what the future holds with With all of this. 00:49:20.451 --> 00:49:21.056 It's 00:49:21.056 --> 00:49:22.301 Matt: the WP Minute. 00:49:22.311 --> 00:49:24.321 The WP Minute dot com slash subscribe. 00:49:24.321 --> 00:49:26.741 Still not powered by AI yet. 00:49:27.331 --> 00:49:27.841 Yet. 00:49:27.841 --> 00:49:28.281 Yes. 00:49:29.161 --> 00:49:29.891 Maybe. 00:49:30.311 --> 00:49:30.931 Someday. 00:49:31.331 --> 00:49:32.761 hit that hit that newsletter. 00:49:32.761 --> 00:49:34.591 I've I think I mentioned this to you a couple weeks ago. 00:49:34.591 --> 00:49:35.991 I switched over to ConvertKit. 00:49:37.621 --> 00:49:38.181 It's going to be kit. 00:49:38.221 --> 00:49:38.861 Is it, has it already? 00:49:39.011 --> 00:49:39.341 Excuse me. 00:49:39.341 --> 00:49:39.611 Sorry. 00:49:39.611 --> 00:49:40.701 It's just, it's just kit now. 00:49:40.721 --> 00:49:41.031 That's right. 00:49:41.041 --> 00:49:42.241 It's just kit, kit. 00:49:42.461 --> 00:49:42.851 com. 00:49:43.221 --> 00:49:47.931 one, because this is a semi tangent to what we're talking about today, but, 00:49:48.341 --> 00:49:51.781 you know, everything that happened with WordPress and, just my, I've always had 00:49:51.781 --> 00:49:54.481 this feeling anyway, but like everything, especially with like WordPress and 00:49:54.501 --> 00:49:58.646 understanding, like who, Where you're doing your business, like who owns that 00:49:58.646 --> 00:50:00.496 business that you're doing business with? 00:50:00.976 --> 00:50:02.806 and yeah, I was running on MailChimp for a while. 00:50:03.346 --> 00:50:04.106 It was fine. 00:50:04.106 --> 00:50:10.316 I never really loved like making the newsletters there but I switched to kit 00:50:10.326 --> 00:50:14.676 because I Had nathan on the show many many years ago and he'll dm me every once 00:50:14.676 --> 00:50:18.676 in a while to ask a couple questions And I was like, yeah, you know i'll use it. 00:50:18.736 --> 00:50:22.806 We got a new add on for it for gravity forms You and so far, so good. 00:50:23.086 --> 00:50:24.816 consolidated two MailChimp accounts. 00:50:24.816 --> 00:50:26.056 It was a little bit of a pain in the neck. 00:50:26.456 --> 00:50:29.836 because it flagged me for like, where did you get these users from? 00:50:29.836 --> 00:50:32.736 And it's like, well I merged two, I had two different lists. 00:50:32.736 --> 00:50:34.626 My mat report list and my WP minute list. 00:50:34.626 --> 00:50:36.616 And I was always mailing both. 00:50:36.696 --> 00:50:39.326 So I just consolidate into one and it flagged a bunch of stuff. 00:50:39.766 --> 00:50:41.116 but crafting the templates there. 00:50:41.611 --> 00:50:43.331 Much easier, happier about that. 00:50:43.331 --> 00:50:45.911 So if you do receive the email and you have any feedback, hit 00:50:45.911 --> 00:50:47.841 reply on the next email that I send, let me know what you think. 00:50:48.261 --> 00:50:49.971 Mark, what about you? 00:50:50.001 --> 00:50:50.981 What are you, what are you up to? 00:50:50.981 --> 00:50:51.741 Where can folks find you? 00:50:52.791 --> 00:50:56.451 Mark: just trying to double, triple, quadruple down on content on YouTube. 00:50:56.451 --> 00:50:57.941 You can just go to mjs. 00:50:57.941 --> 00:50:58.481 bio. 00:50:58.481 --> 00:50:59.651 You can sign up for my newsletter. 00:50:59.651 --> 00:51:01.621 All my social links and everything like that are there. 00:51:01.891 --> 00:51:03.901 Just trying to provide as much value as possible to you guys. 00:51:03.911 --> 00:51:04.871 So appreciate it. 00:51:06.381 --> 00:51:07.041 Matt: Awesome stuff. 00:51:07.181 --> 00:51:08.171 Thanks for watching everybody. 00:51:08.261 --> 00:51:09.091 See you. 00:51:09.946 --> 00:51:12.406 Or you'll hear us in the next episode.