Welcome to Say More, the powerhouse podcast dedicated to elevating the voices
and journeys of women striving for the C -suite and those who've already conquered
it.
Brace yourself for candid conversations, illuminating interviews and unfiltered
insights as we delve into the triumphs, hurdles and invaluable lessons learned
along the path to success.
Join us on this empowering journey where inspiration meets empowerment and wisdom
reign supreme.
Get ready to ignite your ambition, harness your potential and thrive alongside your
sisters on Say More.
for joining another episode of Say More, the powerhouse podcast where it's women
talking to other women about their journey, whether you're in college,
whether you're in high school, whether you're part of the C -suite already, there
is a conversation to be had about that journey and even about where you are now.
opportunities for us to help one another to talk about their hurdles, talk about
the challenges, and certainly talk about those successes.
And today I have an amazing guest who will share some insight about her own journey.
But I know that, you know, as listeners will all relate to it as well, find some
pieces and be able to take that nugget and share with others.
If you have not shared this podcast with anyone yet, please make sure you do with.
all of your friends, your sisters, your neighbors, your colleagues, and that they
get a chance to say more about how we elevate other women.
How do we do that?
How do we inspire?
How do we empower?
So today's guest, Heather Archidias.
And it's a great conversation that we're going to have.
And it's about, you know, really the journey and your journey today to the C
-suite and what inspired you.
to pursue this leadership role and how you just navigated your career path to get you
to the point where you are today.
First of all, thank you for everything you're doing.
I love, you know, just helping women help other women.
I think everybody wants to help, right?
Like as women, we're naturally, we want to help.
And sometimes it's just, we don't know how.
So I love this form that you've created and thank you for having me.
I mean, I think, you know, when I think about my career path, it has not been
linear and it has not been clean.
It's been messy.
It's been full of some successes.
It's been full of failures.
Like it's.
You know, it's just a mismatch, I think, of like hard work and not being scared to
take some risks and then also like luck, being at the right place at the right time
and also just having some great mentors that help guide me along, right?
And having women that I could look up to and aspire to be.
It's just been a really interesting journey that I never would have predicted
when I first started out.
a long time.
I love that, I love that with, you know, say more.
It's about, you know, the authentic, genuine feelings and thoughts and comments
that we can share.
And I love that what you pointed out for our listeners, that it's not, it's not
been a straight line.
It's been some curves.
It's been some, you know, some have been rocky.
Some has been, you know, smooth.
So I think it's great that our listeners hear that because oftentimes, you know, we
can beat ourselves up because, hey, it doesn't look like,
what I read about or what I saw on social media.
So I must not be doing this thing right.
And that's so unfair, one, if we do it to ourselves, but when others impose that
same view on other people and other women.
So it really is to talk about that today.
And so when I think about the prominent leadership position that you hold and you
can share that.
What challenges have you faced throughout your career journey?
I mean, because you have been in a number of key roles and just how did you overcome
some of those challenges?
And like, what advice would you give to our listeners?
I would say, first and foremost is just being an advocate for yourself.
I spent almost 20 years in journalism before I moved over to the healthcare
space.
And I think most of that is kind of mid management.
working in an industry that also very mission driven like healthcare, but also
in an industry, right, that was rapidly changing, you know, the industry not maybe
changing as fast as it needed to, to stay, you know, profitable and relevant.
But I think the things that really held me back there were just, you know, not having
a lot of the thing that I like about the business world is right, it is very,
objective, goal -oriented.
You set tasks, you do it.
You have people along the way who really reward and appreciate your results.
I think journalism is, it's like an industry of storytellers, but I think the
thing that was really hard for me there was just no one necessarily thinking about
careers.
We were so focused on the stories that I really just
didn't have a wealth of people saying, hey, like maybe when you voice your
displeasure with, you know, a direction that we're going in a meeting that you,
instead of criticizing someone else's idea that you pitch a better idea or hey, like
maybe you do, you know, collaborate some of that dirty laundry behind the scenes
and make sure that you're understanding other people's viewpoints before you just
say something and maybe catch people off guard.
It was just...
feedback that I could have used earlier in my career to be a more collaborative
teammate, to be a stronger advocate for my group of writers that I was managing.
I just think looking back at Young Heather, I'm a little bit embarrassed.
Like, no wonder I kind of got stuck in mid -management.
I think the thing that was it for me is just I was about to turn 40 and
going through another round of layoffs.
And that's just a horrible place to be, right?
When there's just not enough money to pay everybody and you got to pick who gets to
keep their job and who isn't.
And just like the enormous weight of that.
And they were offering a round of buyouts and they're like, like, so enough people,
volunteers took the buyouts.
We wouldn't have to do any layoffs.
And I can remember, right, just thinking much.
my job is who I am, like a journalist is who I am, like this is what I went to
college for.
But then also just thinking like, is this really what I wanna do?
Is this really where I wanna be, right?
Like just working, I had gotten so many promotions without any corresponding pain
creams.
Heather today would never take a promotion without a pain cream.
Just like, who was it?
I was just thinking like, I just, it was just a whole,
other mindset and I think, you know, I took the leap, like I took a job for half
the pay, you know, hoping that my skills translated and just kept taking those sort
of expanded steps.
But I think, you know, my, I guess my overall advice through that journey is
like, I wish I would have been a learner.
I wish I would have been more focused on my own career a little bit sooner than I
was and just.
setting those sort of career plans and five -year goals.
I was just like in it for the love of what I was doing that day.
So just like I wish I would have thought a little more long -term earlier.
I wish I would have left journalism a little earlier quite quickly.
I wish, you know, that I would have, you know, not been so scared to pivot and
change course.
And I would say like the last 10 years I've grown and learned so much.
I've had the privilege of having so many, so many mentors.
One in particular, just this really strong woman who has since retired, but just so
great at like holding a room, helping people be accountable, helping people
succeed, but also helping us accomplish what we needed and tactfully, right?
And not the rash and sassy, you know, that I can a little bit cringe when I think
about.
I love that because,
just you sharing it because again, I think our listeners will appreciate that even
though and certainly layoffs can be devastating.
Even thinking about a career change can be totally devastating, but how you chose
that and saw that as an opportunity to pivot and to really reflect on what it is
that you want to do and what would you change about that?
So again, it's not a failure.
if you don't feel, I mean, move forward and learn from it.
And I think it's okay that we have these moments.
I think oftentimes, you know, as women, we can see things as periods versus a comma,
you know, okay, it's the next thing.
So I think it's so powerful that you shared lessons learned, but you also share
the power of what you have learned.
And what you know now is just the no goal.
You know, why take, you know, a whole number of promotions without the
compensation piece to go along with it.
And I need, and I'm certain that you have that same commitment for our listeners,
regardless of where you are in your stage, but certainly those that are just starting
out to hear this, to understand this and to have people in your corner that you can
have these conversations with.
Certainly say more will be a go -to for you, but it's important to have people in
your corner that you can have those conversations with.
Thinking about the journey that you had, the move from one career to the next.
In your experience, how do you think gender diversity has impacted any decision
-making and innovation within, I guess even the organizations that you've been a
part of, what did you think about the career that you had or even the current
one now?
Yeah, I think in the crew that I had, right, it's interesting.
I recently had lunch with one of my former coworkers from my newspaper days and we
just, you know, there's a journalism is still to this day, very male dominated,
right?
And so there's like, it is very man -centric for lack of a better word.
And I think, you know, sometimes, and again, I'm approaching 50, so things are
certainly,
better right now than they used to be.
But I think that there's just, you know, there were just those roles I think that
women could play.
Like we were talking about women as, you know, what leader they support, right?
Versus being leaders in their own right.
And I think that there were certainly some of us who felt, you know, that way is
like, well, that, you know, that person's job is just to make so and so look good.
versus that person's job.
And just having to center your career, I think, A Random Man, I think we've
certainly come a long way from that.
Healthcare, I'm so grateful, right?
It's largely female dominated, right?
In a lot of places, like on my team, we were just talking the other day about how,
so there's,
There's now 80 people or so on my team, about eight of them are men.
Otherwise it is a very, a very female dominated team, like most of healthcare.
So it's kind of an awkward place to be healthcare and be a woman, but I think
still there are still issues around, you know, I see some of my friends who have
gone on from journalism and now they're in different careers across.
across different industries and just, you know, there's still, we've come a long
way, but there's still ways to go, right?
In terms of just equal opportunity and pay inequities, like those are all things that
we need to keep our eye on.
I just, you know, one of the things here is that's so great is, you know, I know
you, our CEO is so wonderful, but then a couple of years ago, our parent company,
a young woman in our 40s was named CEO of our entire company.
And that was just so inspiring, right?
Because if you can't see yourself in a role, if you don't have anybody to aspire
to or look up to, like, and I just remember how affirming and wonderful that
was when that news came about who our new, you know, corporate CEO would be, like,
how meaningful that was, not just to me, but to everyone really across the company.
Because I think,
That's the thing is like healthcare largely, you know, with women, but now
also at the very top a woman and that's a really cool thing for us.
I think it's great what you said.
I mean, the excitement that we can have for others, there is certainly enough
opportunity for all to have and play a role in that, but really to be sharing the
excitement for the success being seeing my others.
And I think this is probably a great segue for thinking about what initiatives.
because of your own journey, have you had the opportunity to implement or witness
that foster diversity and inclusion over the course of your career that really
stood out?
Yeah, I would say, you know, at Sunshine Health, diversity is just such a crucial
piece of our success, right?
It's just that diversity of our workforce, the inclusion of just making sure everyone
has a seat at the table.
Like you can't have true innovation if you don't have it, if you don't have all
different people of backgrounds and beliefs to come and help fuel that, help
bring their life experience and all of the wisdom that comes with that into your
engagement approaches.
That's just so crucial.
So I think I'm really lucky that I get to be in a space where that's so highly
valued.
But I think for me, like it,
The place where I feel like I still try to help others, right, that can still be a
struggle is just that whole, and I've even talked to my own son about this, right?
He is 25 now and he's early in his career.
And I think there's just such a balance between, you know, that whole notion of
can you bring your real self to work, right?
Do you get to be authentically you at work?
And I think I just...
I'll be happy when we don't have to have this conversation anymore, right?
I think that that just establishing trust, right?
And with your team, being honest, being honest about your mistakes, being honest
about, you know, other people, like feedback for others, like that's just such
a crucial part.
And I think, you know, it's just, we're getting close, right?
But there's still just a lot of work to be done around just helping people.
feel comfortable, to be their real selves at work, to raise their hand, even if it's
maybe out of the scope of their expertise, but they have a lived experience that can
inform a strategy, like just being willing to make that leap and raise their hand and
volunteer for the extra assignment that seems a little out of their comfort zone.
I feel like for me, I spend a lot of time just...
trying to share a little bit of courage with people because I think early in my
career I had so much fear and I led from a place where it's like, okay, well, I'm not
gonna, you know, I'm not gonna take that risk and I just, you know, like, I just
wanna encourage people to take all the risks.
Like, failures are really just opportunities to like grow and learn or
maybe just do something different.
Like, not every table's for you.
And I feel like I'm at that age where it's like, I don't need to be.
at every table, like you spend the early part of your career just trying to like
fight and earn your seat at the table.
And now like, I feel like I've turned the corner and was like, every table is not
for me.
Like, and that's okay.
love that and for a lot of listeners I know this is going to be the crystal ball
that they're kind of looking into what would be the other side of this because
again while you're going through it and while you're feeling it and trying to find
every table possible that you can sit at that there is the other side and flip side
that you discover is that every table was not a table that you needed to reach or in
some instances I think you know you've talked about some of the experiences and
you've talked about
even highlighting the success of others.
But I think we have to be, and I love that Seymour allows for this, that we can be
transparent in our conversations, that it's not just a gender piece that we're
talking about, because some of the challenges that I know that you've heard
and that I've certainly heard throughout my career has involved other women with
other women relative to...
difficulties that they face.
And so I don't want to, and I know that there, we oftentimes think that maybe, you
know, maybe it's just a man versus woman.
No, it can happen in all different places.
And so there are opportunities for us all to learn and be reflective.
And I guess again, when I, you know, you've talked about where you, you know,
this whole idea of overcoming challenges and then thinking about gender diversity,
you know,
Leadership often comes with its share of setbacks and failures, right?
Can you share a significant professional setback that you encounter and how you
manage to bounce back from it because resilience is such a key thing?
Yeah, I mean, I think for me, right, it was when I decided to leave journalism and
take a job for half the pay and, you know, kind of really sort of go back to that
ground level of an individual contributor.
And what does that look like?
And like, it felt like a failure at the time.
It was so scary.
And I can just remember being like, my gosh, like, what am I doing?
Like, is this good?
Is this going to be my life?
But it was such a
It turned out to be exactly what I needed, right?
Cause I had to get it.
It just really right away put me back into that growth mindset of like, I need to
learn these things.
I need to figure this out.
I need to be working in the corner over here to make my skills better.
Like, you know, in journal, like this is going to sound so minute, but it's just
kind of a good example.
It's like, you know, PowerPoint is the language of corporate America, but, and
students are learning it in school now.
I didn't, right?
Like I'm of a certain age where we didn't learn PowerPoint in school and it
definitely wasn't a skill set that you needed in journalism, but it literally, so
I can remember just at night, just trying to figure that out and trying to figure
out how to make things act like Microsoft Word, which it really doesn't, right?
It took me a long time, but it's just things like that, right?
It really helped at that really low level put me into a growth mindset that has
really helped my career.
throughout the last decade of just not being afraid to ask questions, not being
afraid to go acquire the skills.
I think a lot of times people are just afraid to say they don't know something or
ask someone to teach them something.
And I have been so incredibly blessed by just having people and coworkers that I
could go to and say, can you please just, can I put time on your calendar for you to
walk me through this?
I would love to just get a better understanding of how this all works.
People want to help you.
I think sometimes young women come to me and they're like, I want to mentor.
How does that work?
And I'm like, it can work so many different ways.
And I'm not going to tell you what the answer for you is.
But what it looked like for me was just having small requests.
Can you help me understand this?
Can you help me understand that?
Can you walk me through this project?
Can you share your project plan on that?
I'd love to see how that came together.
behind the scenes because that's awesome what you did.
Because I think sometimes, like I have never have approached someone and been
like, hey, can you please be my mentor?
I think that can be intimidating for people, right?
Because they know what that means.
Does that mean you want to meet with me once a week for an hour?
I don't have an hour.
But if you put 15 minutes on my calendar and say, yeah, I would love to understand
this, like I'm nine times out of 10 going to accept that if it fits into my
schedule.
So I think for me, it's just,
you know, keeping, you know, keeping that sort of growth mindset, even if it's just
a little bit of time a week.
I mean, we all have a full play.
It's so hard to think about your career and balance your work deliverables and try
to manage your family.
It's a lot to be a woman, right?
Like we, I think one of the things that I still see, you know, in a lot of my
friends and coworkers is just this idea that women still have to do it all, right?
In a way that men just don't have to.
feel that same burden.
And I think that's it.
You don't have to boil the ocean.
Just take one little tiny step, at least once a month or once a week, whatever you
can carve out to build your career or build your brand.
And then you're moving.
You're keeping that momentum.
You don't have to run if you just keep taking those little steps and they
eventually add up.
Quick question for you when I think about this and so asking questions, you're
right.
It's powerful That's how you learn but then there are situations, you know And
I'm certain that listeners are probably saying this to themselves that this sounds
like a perfect environment and a perfect climate that you can feel comfortable in
asking questions I hear often across the nation from women regardless of kind of
where they are in their stage of career journey where they say I
you know what, if I ask a question, it's going to come across as if I don't know
and I'm not qualified to be in the role that I'm in, that people are going to
question me because I had that question.
So what's been your experience with that?
Because I do, I love how you describe that and how you decided to, you know, take
that next step and be a person of inquiry.
But what, what advice would you give in those instances where, you know what you
ask the question?
and you're already perhaps the only woman or whatever else on the leadership team,
what kind of conversation would you offer for that?
Honestly, I would say maybe you're not the right place.
I think, you know, I spent a lot of time.
We need to hear that.
Yeah.
Because that's a hard thing, right?
Like I spent a lot of time in the wrong place.
And I think, you know, obviously it's the benefit of age, right?
When you accumulate all these experiences, you can look back at your younger self and
be like, hmm.
Like I don't want to rock the boat, but like maybe you should rock the boat
because if they don't appreciate every, like people are not, like here's what I
always try to tell people, like especially on my own team or my friends or whoever,
like this job in healthcare, it might not be for you.
It's not for everybody.
It is constantly changing.
It's a lot of busy, like priorities change from one day to the next.
We have to be reactive.
You know, and I think not everybody loves to be in kind of that fast paced and
sometimes chaotic environment.
And it's not your fault and it's not the company's fault.
Like that might just not be the right place for you.
And that's not failure.
That's a step to you finding your true purpose and where you're supposed to be.
So like, I don't, I just, I think that,
If you feel like, my advice is if you feel like you're spending too much time trying
to fit into an organization and trying to make sure that you don't rock the boat,
it's probably not your boat.
And also if you want to come to our boat, send team jobs, then you just go down to
Florida.
We're always looking for great talent.
I love how you answered that authentically because, you know, oftentimes we look for
the most politically correct response to it.
But really, as you mentioned, it's about, and it's okay to think about appropriate
fit.
Sometimes, you know, people feel like, well, if I don't, if I'm not here, then
I'm not any, you are, when you get to the right spot, I promise you will flourish.
So it's about, you know, reflecting in on that.
and realizing that honestly to stay longer in that space doesn't help anyone because
you're not growing and they're not benefiting from what you know because
you're afraid to ask the questions.
So thank you, thank you for that.
And then, you know, Heather, when I think about, again, just some of what you've
talked about, how have you looked at ways to pay it forward and support the
development of aspiring female leaders?
within your organization or even outside of it, you know, because you know, being
in a role like you're in, you can't help but have people that ask specific things
about, you know, could you answer this or could you help me with this?
Yeah, I think for me, right, it is just helping empower other women to be their
own best advocate.
I think, you know, we all come from, we all are shaped by our own experiences.
And I think because I had, you know, I spent such a long time in a place where I
didn't feel valued or, and also like I was not advocating for myself, that I always
make time to just give feedback to people about how they do things or just how to be
a better advocate for themselves.
I think, you know, for the most part, like, I think people are really grateful
for feedback, I think, because I felt like I was feedback starved earlier in my
career.
I will tell you this, like, one of my team members would constantly say, like, why do
I feel like every time we go to Happy Hour, it's a performance evaluation?
Like, it's not a performance evaluation.
I just really want to help you, right?
Like, sometimes people get in their own way and they don't know, like,
I look back at young Heather and all the ways I got in my own way.
Like if someone would have just taken time to give me that direct candid feedback,
then I would have been so much better, so much earlier.
And I think that that's like, I just try to give, not just to women, to everyone,
but really, especially for women, it's just because we are.
you know, our tendency is not to be a great advocate for ourselves.
Our tendency is not necessarily like to be a strong advocate for our teams, right?
But not necessarily a strong advocate for ourselves.
And so I really, you know, just try to also help people understand that people
treat us the way that we allow them to treat us.
Right.
And again, like every table is not for us and it doesn't mean anything about us.
It's not a reflection of us.
Like it doesn't even necessarily have to be a reflection of that.
it's just not a good fit and that's just, we're in the business.
I tell this to everybody, we're in the business of ourselves.
So first and foremost, I'm the business of Heather and what's best for me and my
children and how that works, how that happens.
And so I think nobody ever, women shouldn't be apologetic for making choices
and decisions that are in their own best interest, but I feel like sometimes we do.
It's, you know, another thing I always do is like, please stop apologizing.
Like you don't, you don't, I even work on apologizing.
Like I'll stop an email when I'm like, I'm so sorry to whatever, whatever.
Like I still do that.
Right.
And I, you know, I, in all intents, like, I feel like, I made it, but like, I still
do.
It's just showing green and who we are sometimes.
And I just really like try to guard against that myself.
So I try to flag that kind of stuff for other people.
It's.
It's a continual journey, right?
It's a continual and you know what?
You're such a great conversationalist because you've actually brought up another
conversation in my mind where as you said, you know, it's kind of ingrained.
It's you know, it's like the manners piece if you will of apologizing if there is a
delay and so.
Here's the dilemma for some and I'm certain that listeners are thinking, okay,
what about when you recognize that and you stop doing that, but the people around
you, depending upon who they are and what their experiences have been, they then
take that and that is used against like, well, you know, she's not apologetic.
She is just, you know, too strong.
She's just, you know, not, not caring and she's not acknowledging her own.
So.
Talk about that.
Again, a lot of what you've said already, it depends on are you in the right spot,
an environment, right fit.
But that, what I've just shared, and as you were shaking your head, you can relate
to as well of how that's then perceived, whereas if someone else, another gender,
may have done that, it would not be brought up.
So how have you had worked with,
through that in your own head.
And even through the mentoring conversations that you've had with lit,
you know, aspiring leaders.
Yeah, it's hard, right?
It's hard to be a woman.
And I think just acknowledging that it's hard with each other and having that
female network of support, right, wherever it is, is essential because there are
times, right, I think one way that I deal with it is just by being a good team
member to others and expecting other people to be good team members to us,
right?
I think that's kind of the foundation of just mutual respect.
So,
I'm not apologizing, but when I got to it, here you go.
That's kind of what we get.
The other side of the fence, that's what it looks like and no one questions that.
And I think also there are times where I feel like...
that there is a trust, right, in our workplace.
And we are really so lucky to have just such a great leadership team and such a
great, you know, just team members at every level.
And I do think that there is a baseline trust that when something kind of what I
would say goes sideways and someone's feelings get hurt, that we can raise our
hand and be like, hey, like, help me understand why you did that.
Like, just approaching those things from a place of learning.
And I've had people stop with me because like,
Like I think that my leadership style is very direct.
I think I get to be, I think, you know, people who are new to my team get very
surprised by how direct and maybe not abrupt, right, but just concise.
I am overly concise.
I think sometimes people have this idea of like someone who's like a marketing
executive and they're always flower and they're flowery and they're always, you
know, just so, so nice and so, so polished.
And I really am just.
You know, I'm just cut from a little bit different cloth.
Like I get to the point, I get out of the point, but I also take time to express my
genuine concern and appreciation for the team and for the work and for the effort.
And so I think it's a little bit of once you establish that trust, right, you can
raise your hand when something doesn't feel good or people can come to me if
something doesn't feel good or they don't understand.
Like I always try to take time.
for big things to explain the why, right?
I think that's something that I'm always continually working on too is like, I have
all these journeys going on in my head and it's important that I remember to take
people along with me so that like my behavior like makes sense because
sometimes I realize I could be like, like I'm thinking about eight different things
and sometimes I just try to remember to just take time to explain the why so then
maybe my actions like.
Apologies for getting these results to you two weeks later, but I was the blah blah
blah like sometimes I will say Hey, like here's this bucket of stuff, you know, we
prioritize it after we did project walk like, you know Let me know if you have any
questions like so it's it's a little bit the why and not the apology so people like
know that I'm not just Like I don't want people to feel disrespected but at the
same time like I also like want to hold a respect for myself
I love that.
And I love that how you've one taken the approach that you are recognizing that the
Y could assist them in helping them to better understand.
But at the same time, you're not shortchanging yourself and where you're,
you know, that it needs to move to, and that apologies should not be the hallmark
for every female leader as you're, you know, trying to operate in your day to day
business.
Right.
So, can you, I mean, even as the words are coming out of my mouth,
You can.
Even as the words are coming out of my mouth, though, like it's like you can't
over explain the why because men are over explaining the why.
You don't want to justify my decision by the blah, blah.
Like it's it's so hard.
It's hard to be a woman.
It's fair.
And that's why, again, you know, say more.
The whole notion behind even kicking this off was, you know, you talk about
experiences and you never waste an experience.
But I thought this is the place where these conversations have got to come to
the forefront.
because they are, we're all kind of challenging and being battling with the
same kinds of things that are happening.
So I appreciate again, your honesty.
And I think it's a great segue to, it's hard being a leader, but then also how do
you prioritize self care and just to maintain a healthy, I say work -life
balance, work -life integration, whatever the buzzword is for today, but how do you
do that?
I'm still working on that.
I think for me, I knew that.
So listeners, if you're just listening to it and can't see it, she is still there,
but it's like what we all do.
It's that long pause of, okay, how are we doing this thing?
So Heather, your answer.
Yeah, I think, you know, I'm still working on that.
It's, it is how I now have, I think about how I practice self care is just giving
myself grace, grace to know that the scales never going to be perfectly
balanced.
Sometimes I'm winning at life.
I'm running.
I'm, you know, going on hiking trips with my family and sometimes I'm winning at
work and I'm getting all these great things done.
And I'm really proud of the work and the progress.
But those two things often can't happen at the same time and it's okay.
Like I don't, you know, sometimes like I have a long day.
My kids are both grown now.
They're wonderful.
They're, they're 25 and 20.
and just, you know, sometimes I'll have a really long day.
And what I really wanted to do is call them and catch up with them at the end of
the day.
But I'm just so tired.
I've been talking all day.
I'm just emotionally exhausted.
I don't create that connection.
Sometimes that's the feedback that they give it.
Mom, like, Hey, like.
maybe just call and check us in on us more.
Or, okay, like, you know.
So like, I definitely value and prioritize our quality family time together.
But sometimes like the workday wins.
And then I'm like, like, I don't, you know, it's just, I just try to give myself
grace, right?
I try to know that I'm, I just need to make sure I'm putting some wins in both
sides.
And it's not always going to be a perfect.
Not a perfect balance.
So I think again, that's the honest piece of this because a lot of people will say,
well, I have it.
And I'm like, well, I'm not sure how you have it.
I mean, I've not had it for years being in key leadership roles, but I understand the
importance of it.
And as you said, I think grace and allowing and extending that grace to
yourself certainly gets you there sooner.
So here's one that I know and I'm thinking about as I'm thinking about this question
that I'm gonna ask you.
I hear this quite a bit too.
So can you share your insights on fostering a culture of support and
collaboration among women in the workplace?
And I'll say, I'll add this caveat because you always hear it, particularly
environments where competition or crab mentality may be prevalent.
How does that work?
I would say that it's really important, right?
I read this somewhere and I'm sorry that whoever owns this particular phrase and
piece of work that I can't properly cite it, but I think it's really important to
have your board of directors, right?
So that you have that female group of women who you can rely on, who support
you, right?
and that you are helping foster and include other people and just like ever
growing the group so that it is a community of women who can surface like,
you know, like I think everybody is like, I don't want to ask a stupid question, but
it's just creating those spaces where people, especially women can just bring
like their concerns, their fears and have that space to discuss it.
And then also like,
just understand each other.
I think sometimes when I've seen women not get along with each other, it's because
it's just a misunderstanding.
Like somebody hasn't taken time to listen to what the other person's been
accomplished and another person is inadvertently doing things that's harming
like a particular project owned by another woman.
And it's not, it's not purposeful, right?
It's just taking that extra time.
And I would just say if you feel like you're getting crossways with someone,
to just, again, just invite them out for lunch or invite them out for a drink or
just even put a couple minutes on their schedule to say, hey, help me understand
what you're trying to do here.
Because a lot of times we're all trying to get to the same place and maybe we're
taking different paths and those paths can sometimes get cross ways because it's
competing resources, scarce resources type mentality.
But just taking time to try to understand the women around you and their goals and
what they're trying to do.
I think eliminates most of that.
Like I truly feel like that is just a miscommunication among the tribe.
I so appreciate that and listeners, let's, you know, we can all lock into a situation
that we've been exposed to and we may have put the title on a crab mentality, but to
be very honest, we're all in it together.
So how can one...
you know, one or more, take that, I call it that bigger step and say, let's have a
conversation just like Heather described, you know, don't let it lie there and
fester, but really look at ways to communicate.
And I think, you know, that as we look at where we're going as women and looking
ahead, even for yourself, Heather, what do you envision for the future of women and
leadership roles in your sector?
And what do you think, what steps do you think organizations can take to really
further promote?
gender equality and empower women to excel in the C -suite.
I mean, I think organizations as a whole, right, just to need to make sure that
their internal promotions are clearly and fairly done.
That's one of the things I really think we do well at.
We have such a great internal fill rate for our director and above with just
grooming people for those leadership roles at Sunshine.
I just had a meeting the other day with
some new team members that are coming into our department.
And I was, it was just so incredible to hear about their career journeys.
Like most of them had been here longer than me.
I've been here eight years now.
That's really long in my estimation, right?
But these were folks who had been here 10 years or 12 years.
And just, just an incredible, like, you know, to hear about how people have
navigated, navigated their individual careers.
I think if companies can just foster a
place where employees can see themselves learning and growing and also not being
afraid to raise their hand and be like, hey, like, I think I'm ready for a new
challenge or hey, help me take the next steps.
I think that is like the key thing to helping women, you know, achieve success
at whatever level they want to achieve success at, right?
And that's also recognizing that, you know, not everybody, you know, just wants
to have a continual progression.
you know, up the corporate ladder.
You know, I think everybody's goals are different and I think the more that we can
create an environment where everyone feels valued and supportive and, you know, hats
can see the future for themselves, I think the better.
But also there needs to be those systemic issues, like those systemic processes
where you're looking at.
pay inequities from a large scale and fixing things that maybe are broken,
right?
Like that's a very key piece of the puzzle too that companies need to make sure that
they're doing.
I love how as much as you've evolved into the leader that you are, that you have
chosen an organization that is doing and has that same commitment level.
And I think our listeners will hear that when those things match,
There is great success that can be had from everybody.
The organization wins as well as the leader.
So thank you for pointing that out.
And as we move to our last question, we've talked about it before, but when
reflecting on your journey and if you could go back and think that you would
tell your 20 year old self, but is there anything else that you haven't told us
that you think about that, you know what, 20 year old self, this is the guidance
that I'd give you.
today.
I would say right is just being genuine with yourself and with others.
I think, you know, we've just being your own advocate as much as we advocate for
our families and advocate for our teams.
I mean, we've all had that place where you're like, you're in a group meeting and
you say an idea and then it's sort of the conversation goes on.
But then three minutes later, a man says it and it's like the best idea ever.
I think sometimes right.
It's just about like in a very genuine kind way be like, like make a joke out of
it.
Like I think sometimes when you feel like things aren't going well, even if it
doesn't change things, I think there's just a way to, to, to flag some of those
things so that you feel great.
Like it's not always, it doesn't always go my way.
Right.
Like I, and when it doesn't,
I mean, the first one to be like, ooh, that was a bad idea for me.
That didn't turn out how I was going to think it was going to be.
But I think it all really just comes back to following your gut, following your
instinct, being true to who you are, and not being afraid to take risks.
I just wish I would have taken more risks earlier.
So many of the things that I've learned, I've learned through failure.
Like that's just a key ingredient of life.
Like I spent a lot of time stuck in places because I was afraid of the unknown.
And I would just be like, take a leap, ask for help, right?
Like people wanna help you.
I love that.
And listeners, thank you for being a part of today's conversation and thank you for
marking this as a favorite.
Thank you for subscribing and thank you for supporting other women as we all
continue down the path of our own journeys.
We're in it together.
Say more for you, for all of us.
Thank you for tuning in.