WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.445 --> 00:00:25.945 Anke: Hello. 00:00:26.005 --> 00:00:27.225 Welcome, Amanda. 00:00:27.365 --> 00:00:29.625 I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:30.750 --> 00:00:31.070 Yes. 00:00:31.070 --> 00:00:31.470 Glad 00:00:31.470 --> 00:00:32.210 Amanda: to be here. 00:00:33.390 --> 00:00:34.830 Anke: And I, you know, I just love it. 00:00:34.830 --> 00:00:37.790 Like, you just kind of look as if you've just come in from the 00:00:37.790 --> 00:00:39.585 outside, which I know you're not. 00:00:39.585 --> 00:00:39.905 So 00:00:40.465 --> 00:00:41.025 Amanda: Uh, yep. 00:00:41.025 --> 00:00:42.245 I very much did. 00:00:42.945 --> 00:00:46.460 Anke: Let people know where outside is for you, like, where you're based, it. 00:00:46.460 --> 00:00:49.760 And, um, you know, what's your business with dogs? 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:50.540 Yeah. 00:00:50.540 --> 00:00:53.740 Amanda: Well, you wouldn't know based off what I'm wearing, but I'm actually based 00:00:53.740 --> 00:00:56.075 out of, um, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. 00:00:56.375 --> 00:01:01.035 However, it is, um, February, so we are getting a little chilly. 00:01:01.255 --> 00:01:05.540 Um, it got down to the thirties last night, but we I guess I'm 00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:10.280 acclimated now, so 40 degree weather is is enough for a winter hat. 00:01:11.940 --> 00:01:17.275 Um, But, yes, I moved down, um, from Upstate New York, uh, to start a dog 00:01:17.275 --> 00:01:18.895 business, a dog training business. 00:01:20.510 --> 00:01:24.110 I had spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I wanted 00:01:24.110 --> 00:01:25.570 that business to look like. 00:01:25.950 --> 00:01:31.765 Um, and so I had decided that I wanted to do something where that I got owners 00:01:31.765 --> 00:01:38.160 and dogs working together and having fun while also experiencing Better behavior. 00:01:38.220 --> 00:01:42.460 So, um, less about focusing on training like work and more 00:01:42.460 --> 00:01:44.640 focusing on training like fun. 00:01:45.085 --> 00:01:48.445 Having fun with your dog and, yeah, enjoying your time together 00:01:48.445 --> 00:01:51.345 while also getting the benefits of good behavior back home. 00:01:51.805 --> 00:01:52.365 I love that. 00:01:52.365 --> 00:01:52.560 I 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:52.960 Anke: I love it. 00:01:52.960 --> 00:01:55.600 So you get to hang out with people's dogs all day. 00:01:55.600 --> 00:01:56.660 I think that's just 00:01:57.520 --> 00:01:57.920 Amanda: Yes. 00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:58.420 Yep. 00:01:59.520 --> 00:02:01.040 That's that's a lot of the job. 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:01.645 It's great. 00:02:01.805 --> 00:02:02.285 Anke: I love it. 00:02:02.285 --> 00:02:02.845 I love it. 00:02:02.845 --> 00:02:07.345 So you get to go you go walk you walk people's dogs, and then if they go like, 00:02:07.565 --> 00:02:09.725 what on earth have you done to these dogs? 00:02:09.725 --> 00:02:13.540 They're all of a sudden much better behave, then you know, that's how you get 00:02:13.540 --> 00:02:14.420 Amanda: your training clients. 00:02:14.420 --> 00:02:14.920 Right? 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:15.800 Exactly. 00:02:15.860 --> 00:02:16.180 Yep. 00:02:16.180 --> 00:02:18.100 I get to hang out with the dog, spend time. 00:02:18.100 --> 00:02:21.895 I almost made, um, T shirts that said I'm your dog's other best friend. 00:02:23.795 --> 00:02:28.215 Um, but, yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun both connecting with the dogs and then, 00:02:28.515 --> 00:02:32.940 um, Having that connection lead to getting the dogs and the owners more connected. 00:02:33.640 --> 00:02:34.280 Anke: I love it. 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:35.020 Love it. 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:40.335 So now when it comes to dog training, you have an approach 00:02:40.475 --> 00:02:47.215 that, you know, is probably, un unfortunately, not that commonly known. 00:02:47.540 --> 00:02:48.740 Tell us a little bit about it. 00:02:48.740 --> 00:02:52.420 What what is it and, you know, how is it different from what people might be 00:02:52.420 --> 00:02:53.320 Amanda: familiar with? 00:02:53.620 --> 00:02:53.860 Yeah. 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:59.255 So I studied under and learned from Kevin Bien who, uh, Uh, develop the dog model or 00:02:59.255 --> 00:03:01.115 the training model, natural dog training. 00:03:01.655 --> 00:03:07.640 Um, and his approach to how he developed it and also the training model 00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:11.363 itself is very different from other training models that are out there. 00:03:11.363 --> 00:03:16.165 Um, I did have the benefit of not Being extremely well versed in other 00:03:16.165 --> 00:03:19.045 training models, because I didn't come to him as a trainer originally. 00:03:19.045 --> 00:03:24.370 I came to him as an owner with a human and Dog aggressive dog or dog reactive dog. 00:03:25.070 --> 00:03:30.510 And, um, the thing that really connected me to his work was 00:03:30.510 --> 00:03:31.415 because it was different. 00:03:31.495 --> 00:03:36.615 I would read about, um, different training models, um, like the the 00:03:36.615 --> 00:03:44.150 dominance training or force training, um, e collar training, The the clicker or, 00:03:44.370 --> 00:03:47.670 um, all positive reinforcement training. 00:03:47.810 --> 00:03:54.855 And A lot of it, to me, spoke to the idea of being in control of your dog. 00:03:55.315 --> 00:04:00.230 And for me, I had grown up, um, Um, you know, carrying around a veterinary 00:04:00.230 --> 00:04:01.430 textbook before I could read. 00:04:01.430 --> 00:04:02.470 I wanted to save dogs. 00:04:02.470 --> 00:04:03.510 I wanted to help dogs. 00:04:03.510 --> 00:04:06.070 For me, it was much more about having a connection and a 00:04:06.070 --> 00:04:07.850 real relationship with my dog. 00:04:08.295 --> 00:04:13.898 Um, so that want, that desire had led me to trainers who 00:04:13.898 --> 00:04:16.232 who utilize methods like that. 00:04:16.232 --> 00:04:21.220 Um, and, eventually, we Found Kevin, and he taught us, um, you know, 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:26.255 the real, um, the real nuts and bolts of how to to really get that 00:04:26.375 --> 00:04:27.815 that we were seeking with our dogs. 00:04:27.815 --> 00:04:34.990 So I think, um, the biggest difference would be that natural dog training is 00:04:34.990 --> 00:04:38.830 about forming a relationship, a mutually beneficial relationship where both 00:04:38.830 --> 00:04:40.370 parties are getting what they want. 00:04:40.510 --> 00:04:42.945 Not only are you getting the behavior that you're looking brought out 00:04:42.945 --> 00:04:46.465 of your dog, but the dog is also getting everything that they want 00:04:46.465 --> 00:04:48.085 out of the relationship with you. 00:04:48.785 --> 00:04:50.725 So it's, um, very fulfilling. 00:04:52.380 --> 00:04:52.620 Anke: Yeah. 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:56.380 I mean, I must say to, like, for for transparency, for clarity, uh, I 00:04:56.380 --> 00:04:58.720 stumbled across natural dog training. 00:04:59.065 --> 00:05:01.945 And, uh, when I was like you know, when I had my little layout 00:05:01.945 --> 00:05:02.985 and I was like, I don't know. 00:05:02.985 --> 00:05:03.705 None of this stuff. 00:05:03.705 --> 00:05:04.825 I'm finding out made sense. 00:05:04.825 --> 00:05:08.580 And it was literally this moment where I was like, oh, for the first time, 00:05:08.580 --> 00:05:10.520 something actually makes sense here. 00:05:10.900 --> 00:05:11.560 You know? 00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:18.475 And, um, and the the sort of the things you do as the person in this in this 00:05:18.475 --> 00:05:25.190 relationship, uh, are quite call them let's call them counterintuitive if we 00:05:25.190 --> 00:05:27.750 call intuitive what we're kind of used to. 00:05:27.750 --> 00:05:28.250 Right? 00:05:28.310 --> 00:05:32.085 So not counterintuitive if you know what's behind it. 00:05:32.085 --> 00:05:36.245 But if you read some other stuff, you know, and you kind of like, people told 00:05:36.245 --> 00:05:38.565 you you've gotta do this and you've gotta do that, and all of a sudden 00:05:38.565 --> 00:05:40.230 this comes along and goes, oh, no. 00:05:40.230 --> 00:05:41.670 You actually do the opposite. 00:05:41.670 --> 00:05:44.630 Like, tell us a little bit about, like, you know, what the what you 00:05:44.630 --> 00:05:47.670 were sharing before about, you know, getting the dogs to come back. 00:05:47.670 --> 00:05:50.855 So instead of chasing off them and yelling after them. 00:05:50.855 --> 00:05:51.975 Like, you run the other way. 00:05:51.975 --> 00:05:52.295 Amanda: Right. 00:05:52.295 --> 00:05:52.535 Right? 00:05:52.535 --> 00:05:56.475 So Well, and it's funny it's funny that you say counterintuitive because 00:05:56.695 --> 00:06:01.800 if we really got down to it, These behaviors and what natural dog training 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:03.160 the exercises are different things. 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:06.335 They're actually all based off intuition and And into the 00:06:06.415 --> 00:06:08.055 that's why I put it in the wall. 00:06:08.095 --> 00:06:09.055 Think we're right. 00:06:09.055 --> 00:06:11.215 I think we're so far Yeah. 00:06:11.375 --> 00:06:15.880 Separated from from the nature within ourselves that that's why 00:06:15.880 --> 00:06:17.340 it's become counterintuitive. 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:18.220 Yes. 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:25.585 Um, so what Kevin learned it through watching and observing the dogs, and 00:06:25.585 --> 00:06:29.345 that's how and then, again, used his intuition to infer what was going 00:06:29.345 --> 00:06:33.820 on and then eventually, Um, then went the more scientific approach of 00:06:33.820 --> 00:06:35.420 of experimenting and saying, okay. 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:37.680 If I do this, then the dog does this and this. 00:06:39.165 --> 00:06:47.005 So, um, 1 of the the the main components for me, um, and, again, 00:06:47.005 --> 00:06:51.900 I learned this Through a friend's daughter who ended up, um, or at 00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:53.900 least I learned what to label it. 00:06:53.900 --> 00:06:58.365 Through a friend's daughter, She actually struggled with with drug addiction, 00:06:58.365 --> 00:07:00.145 and she went to a drug rehab program. 00:07:00.685 --> 00:07:06.740 And they had this exercise, um, that they I believe they called 00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:08.920 it intention without reservation. 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:16.045 Um, and so the the, Um, the people in the rehab were learning to almost 00:07:16.265 --> 00:07:20.605 develop their own sense of willpower or or reestablish their own willpower. 00:07:22.200 --> 00:07:27.400 And it it's very as she was explaining it, it it really resonated with me for exactly 00:07:27.400 --> 00:07:31.385 what we're doing with the dogs, um, Um, when it comes to natural dog training. 00:07:31.685 --> 00:07:36.805 So when you're giving your dog a command or trying to get your dog 00:07:36.805 --> 00:07:42.350 to elicit a certain behavior, Um, the most important thing is not 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:46.850 what you're saying or even what your body language is necessarily doing. 00:07:47.115 --> 00:07:52.635 Um, the most important thing is your emotional state inside and how you are 00:07:52.635 --> 00:07:57.580 feeling and what you are thinking about when you are Speaking that command. 00:07:57.880 --> 00:08:03.500 Um, so going back to the dogs running away, so most people in that situation, 00:08:04.185 --> 00:08:07.545 Their dog has either gotten off the leash or they're they're they're off 00:08:07.545 --> 00:08:10.185 leash, and the dog is now running towards something that they don't 00:08:10.185 --> 00:08:11.385 want them to be running towards. 00:08:11.385 --> 00:08:14.290 Um, Um, you know, put yourself in that moment. 00:08:14.350 --> 00:08:15.410 How are you feeling? 00:08:15.630 --> 00:08:19.150 Um, if you're feeling afraid and you're feeling scared and you're 00:08:19.150 --> 00:08:20.430 thinking in your head, oh my god. 00:08:20.430 --> 00:08:21.230 Don't go that way. 00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:22.455 Don't Don't run that way. 00:08:22.455 --> 00:08:23.015 Oh my gosh. 00:08:23.015 --> 00:08:24.295 They're not they're running away. 00:08:24.295 --> 00:08:25.275 They're running away. 00:08:25.575 --> 00:08:28.775 Um, even as you're calling out to them, you know, hey. 00:08:28.775 --> 00:08:29.255 Come back. 00:08:29.255 --> 00:08:30.235 Come back, Fido. 00:08:30.910 --> 00:08:34.990 If you're feeling and thinking those things, the dog is picking up on that. 00:08:34.990 --> 00:08:37.310 The dog is not the dog doesn't know English. 00:08:37.310 --> 00:08:38.830 The dog doesn't speak our language. 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:42.325 The dog doesn't have, Um, you know, the same language capabilities 00:08:42.465 --> 00:08:46.705 that we do and the same prefrontal cortex to to process the information 00:08:46.705 --> 00:08:48.270 that you are shouting at it. 00:08:48.590 --> 00:08:55.490 However, it does have the, um, inner workings to process emotionally 00:08:55.870 --> 00:08:57.970 what you're thinking and feeling. 00:08:58.335 --> 00:09:02.095 And so when when you're calling out to them but you're afraid that 00:09:02.095 --> 00:09:04.995 they're not gonna come back, what they're hearing from you is run away. 00:09:05.135 --> 00:09:06.495 If you're sitting there thinking, oh my god. 00:09:06.495 --> 00:09:07.135 They're running away. 00:09:07.135 --> 00:09:07.760 They're running away. 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:08.320 Running away. 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.340 All they're feeling is I'm running away. 00:09:10.400 --> 00:09:14.180 If you're afraid of something, then that fear is reinforced in them. 00:09:14.400 --> 00:09:15.600 I I need to run away. 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:17.145 There's something to be afraid of. 00:09:17.225 --> 00:09:20.425 So they have no understanding that, oh, they just want me to come back. 00:09:20.425 --> 00:09:24.505 They're afraid because there's cars, you know, up ahead or because they're afraid 00:09:24.505 --> 00:09:28.260 they're gonna lose me in the woods or They they don't understand any of that. 00:09:28.260 --> 00:09:32.180 They just understand that you are now afraid and that they're getting 00:09:32.180 --> 00:09:37.175 a feeling of you, of insecurity, that you're not gonna be able to To to 00:09:37.175 --> 00:09:42.715 catch them, um, and it just becomes this self self fulfilling cycle. 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:47.140 The dog's running away, and then most of the time, you know, 00:09:47.140 --> 00:09:49.000 again, instinct is to chase it. 00:09:49.140 --> 00:09:52.180 Um, and then you get into the prey predator dynamic, which 00:09:52.180 --> 00:09:55.895 is If I'm you know, who's the prey and who's the predator? 00:09:56.115 --> 00:09:59.955 If you're chasing your dog, you are establishing in that moment that your 00:09:59.955 --> 00:10:01.735 dog is the prey and you are the predator. 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.160 Well, what's the prey's job? 00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:05.180 It's not to turn around and come to the predator. 00:10:05.800 --> 00:10:06.860 That would be horrible. 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.580 The the prey's job is to run away and get and stay away and and evade. 00:10:12.675 --> 00:10:16.515 Um, so simply by understanding, you know, the intention without 00:10:16.515 --> 00:10:21.780 reservation, which once you understand the prey predator dynamic And you 00:10:21.780 --> 00:10:24.660 are confident in what you're doing, which again so prey predator. 00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:28.520 If you want the dog to chase you, then you have to take on the role of prey. 00:10:28.660 --> 00:10:31.160 So you have to embody a prey energy. 00:10:31.725 --> 00:10:36.205 Um, so, again, uh, as I was explaining to you with the the other 2 dogs, I'm 00:10:36.205 --> 00:10:38.525 gonna make my my voice very high pitched. 00:10:38.525 --> 00:10:39.265 Bye bye. 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:39.840 Bye bye. 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.440 And I'm going to like, I'm saying bye bye not because they understand what bye 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:49.105 bye means, but I wanna get in my body and my Intention of I'm about to leave you. 00:10:49.105 --> 00:10:50.405 I'm about to run away. 00:10:50.545 --> 00:10:51.205 Bye bye. 00:10:51.505 --> 00:10:53.265 Um, so the bye bye is for me. 00:10:53.265 --> 00:10:57.110 However, the high pitched voice, The sound mimicking a prey animal, 00:10:57.410 --> 00:10:59.430 um, and then I turn and I run away. 00:10:59.570 --> 00:11:00.310 I run. 00:11:00.450 --> 00:11:03.705 So now now the dog is in this, oh my gosh. 00:11:03.785 --> 00:11:04.425 They're running away. 00:11:04.425 --> 00:11:05.465 I gotta go get them. 00:11:05.465 --> 00:11:09.385 And that's exactly what I'm feeling and thinking is I'm I they're gonna get me. 00:11:09.385 --> 00:11:10.505 This dog is gonna get me. 00:11:10.505 --> 00:11:11.225 I gotta go run. 00:11:11.225 --> 00:11:12.105 I gotta go hide. 00:11:12.105 --> 00:11:16.610 And so My intention now becomes exactly what I need it to be for them to come 00:11:16.610 --> 00:11:18.870 to me as opposed to running away. 00:11:19.170 --> 00:11:24.346 So intention without reservation is is a A very important, um, tool, and 00:11:24.346 --> 00:11:28.932 it's very important to understand how that works with the dog if you want 00:11:28.932 --> 00:11:33.790 to establish a true rapport Where your dog is actually listening to you. 00:11:34.010 --> 00:11:34.850 It's a game changer. 00:11:35.130 --> 00:11:35.870 Always listening. 00:11:36.170 --> 00:11:36.570 Yes. 00:11:36.570 --> 00:11:36.730 But 00:11:36.730 --> 00:11:38.190 Anke: that is a game changer. 00:11:38.570 --> 00:11:38.890 Right? 00:11:38.890 --> 00:11:42.765 I mean, I I I kinda do it with, like, my massive puppy. 00:11:42.825 --> 00:11:43.225 You know? 00:11:43.225 --> 00:11:43.945 I have a puppy. 00:11:43.945 --> 00:11:44.745 Like, she's a horse. 00:11:44.745 --> 00:11:45.865 Like, she's 18 months old. 00:11:45.865 --> 00:11:46.345 Is this it? 00:11:46.505 --> 00:11:46.825 Small. 00:11:46.825 --> 00:11:47.145 Right? 00:11:47.145 --> 00:11:50.710 But but it's like when she's goofing how you know, I kind of do that just 00:11:50.710 --> 00:11:52.790 for, you know, just for the fun of it. 00:11:52.790 --> 00:11:57.425 So often when she's running around her, and I just kind of, like, I 00:11:57.425 --> 00:12:02.705 crouch down, open my arms, kinda round myself, like and I don't say anything. 00:12:02.705 --> 00:12:06.930 Like, invariably, she'll stop what she's doing and she'll come in towards me. 00:12:06.930 --> 00:12:07.730 That You know? 00:12:07.730 --> 00:12:10.230 Because, like, I'm, like, little, and I'm, like, kind of welcoming, 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:14.330 like, arms open and just, like, bouncing out, and she will I'll pray. 00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:15.190 Time. 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:15.910 You know? 00:12:16.015 --> 00:12:19.215 And it I like I literally have experienced that. 00:12:19.215 --> 00:12:22.575 I can a hundred percent confirm that that is how it works. 00:12:22.575 --> 00:12:25.295 You know, even though it's kind of like the opposite of what we're being 00:12:25.295 --> 00:12:28.740 told, you know, with that, like, you've got, you know, you've gotta be and 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:31.620 I think that sort of sense of, like, you have to tell the dog and you have 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:34.455 to tell them off and you have to, you know, I think that's the opposite. 00:12:34.455 --> 00:12:36.535 Like, that is so predator 00:12:36.535 --> 00:12:39.895 Amanda: like Well, again, put put yourself in the dog's shoes. 00:12:39.895 --> 00:12:42.375 So imagine you know nothing about English. 00:12:42.375 --> 00:12:43.730 You don't Speak their language. 00:12:44.190 --> 00:12:47.410 And you're so say you're in a foreign country and you come up to somebody 00:12:48.030 --> 00:12:52.030 and something scares you or you see something attractive further out and 00:12:52.030 --> 00:12:54.975 you start to move Towards that, and then all of a sudden, the person behind 00:12:54.975 --> 00:12:56.995 you is yelling at you and chasing you. 00:12:57.135 --> 00:12:58.095 What are you gonna feel? 00:12:58.095 --> 00:12:59.535 What are you gonna think in that moment? 00:12:59.535 --> 00:13:01.155 Are you gonna run towards them? 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.500 I mean, unless you have, like, a background in Krav Maga, judo, whatever, 00:13:05.800 --> 00:13:08.140 like and you you're gonna go fight them. 00:13:08.445 --> 00:13:08.765 Um, no. 00:13:08.765 --> 00:13:09.725 You're gonna run away. 00:13:09.725 --> 00:13:10.845 You're gonna keep going. 00:13:10.845 --> 00:13:13.245 Like, why would I turn around and run towards that? 00:13:13.245 --> 00:13:17.150 Why would I direct my energy towards something that is acting in that way. 00:13:17.150 --> 00:13:19.870 It just makes no again, when it comes down to it, that 00:13:19.870 --> 00:13:21.550 actually makes no logical sense. 00:13:21.550 --> 00:13:24.805 When you like, we would think the logical Cool thing to do 00:13:24.805 --> 00:13:26.245 is to, yeah, you know, no. 00:13:26.245 --> 00:13:27.125 Don't go that way. 00:13:27.125 --> 00:13:28.025 Come back here. 00:13:28.405 --> 00:13:32.900 It's it makes no sense even if you do really put it into a human. 00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:35.320 Even in a human perspective, that doesn't make any sense. 00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:39.320 Um, but it always comes back to that that insecure need for control. 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:42.785 Um, but it's like, What works better? 00:13:42.925 --> 00:13:45.905 Um, you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. 00:13:46.125 --> 00:13:49.670 I'm I'm gonna get the dog to come to me and do what I want If it 00:13:49.670 --> 00:13:51.610 feels good for the dog to do so. 00:13:51.990 --> 00:13:55.590 If it doesn't feel good for the dog to do what I want, which is essentially 00:13:55.590 --> 00:13:58.745 what we're using the treats for, oh, it feels good to do that Trick 00:13:58.745 --> 00:14:00.365 because I get a treat at the end. 00:14:00.425 --> 00:14:02.185 Not because I enjoy doing the trick. 00:14:02.185 --> 00:14:03.325 I just want the treat. 00:14:03.625 --> 00:14:07.465 And natural dog training takes that a step further and says, okay. 00:14:07.465 --> 00:14:09.810 Well, We can make the dog feel good without the food. 00:14:09.810 --> 00:14:14.210 We can give it a fulfilling feeling of moving well with us, 00:14:14.210 --> 00:14:18.225 of nurturing those those hunt instincts, that prey predator dynamic. 00:14:19.005 --> 00:14:22.700 So a dog feels good when it's chased and caught a prey animal. 00:14:22.780 --> 00:14:26.800 That's what it's been doing its whole life up until we put it in a little sweater 00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.340 and gave it food in a bowl and said, okay. 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:29.980 You're retired. 00:14:29.980 --> 00:14:31.440 You don't have to hunt anymore. 00:14:31.975 --> 00:14:32.775 Well, guess what? 00:14:32.775 --> 00:14:35.095 They still have the hunting instincts. 00:14:35.095 --> 00:14:41.280 They still have the entire evolutionary drive to hunt, and Natural dog training 00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:43.060 gives them an answer to that problem. 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.680 It takes that into account instead of just, here, do this, and I'll 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:51.285 I'll bribe you with food, or Here, do this, and you won't get in trouble, 00:14:51.745 --> 00:14:55.445 which neither of those things are very motivating in the end. 00:14:55.665 --> 00:14:56.165 Yeah. 00:14:56.465 --> 00:14:59.260 Anke: Actually, the the there's a question that pops up. 00:14:59.260 --> 00:15:06.220 Like, because especially with intention without reservation, and I've experienced 00:15:06.300 --> 00:15:08.165 like, I've totally experienced that sense. 00:15:08.165 --> 00:15:11.045 Like, yeah, you can't you cannot fool your dog. 00:15:11.045 --> 00:15:11.545 Right? 00:15:11.605 --> 00:15:16.860 So you can you can kind of, you know, pretend to be, you know, 00:15:16.860 --> 00:15:19.520 all all confident and whatever. 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.700 And, I mean, I had it, like, when especially my first dog 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:24.465 when he got he got bitten. 00:15:24.465 --> 00:15:24.705 Right? 00:15:24.705 --> 00:15:28.465 So and then, uh, on on the back of that, you know, obviously, I was 00:15:28.465 --> 00:15:29.985 totally surprised in that moment. 00:15:29.985 --> 00:15:32.385 So I definitely looking back, I'm like, oh god. 00:15:32.385 --> 00:15:34.690 He probably thought more useless. 00:15:34.990 --> 00:15:35.230 You know? 00:15:35.230 --> 00:15:38.750 He would have thought, like you know, I was like, oh, boy. 00:15:38.750 --> 00:15:42.485 Did I have to like, I would have you know, if if he had rational 00:15:42.485 --> 00:15:45.125 thoughts like that, he definitely would have lost trust in me that day. 00:15:45.125 --> 00:15:46.645 He was like, oh, I can't rely on that 1. 00:15:46.645 --> 00:15:47.045 Right? 00:15:47.045 --> 00:15:50.985 So because I was just, like, so surprised and so, like, you know? 00:15:51.160 --> 00:15:55.160 I mean, I did I did pull him out, so it wasn't that I kinda just left him there 00:15:55.160 --> 00:15:56.940 as I did pull him out of the situation. 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:01.245 But but, yeah, I was certainly not grounded and calm in the situation. 00:16:01.785 --> 00:16:06.900 And so, basically, on the back of that, he was then very wary of of 00:16:06.900 --> 00:16:09.000 other male dogs in confined spaces. 00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:09.460 Right? 00:16:09.460 --> 00:16:15.165 So now knowing that we won't have space and he's gonna just throw himself at 00:16:15.705 --> 00:16:19.865 whoever comes at him, you know, like dogs, never people but other dogs. 00:16:19.865 --> 00:16:20.525 You know? 00:16:20.585 --> 00:16:24.340 I was then the 1 like, I'd be scanning the horizon, you know, 00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:25.860 kind of trying to you know? 00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:26.500 And I'm thinking 00:16:26.660 --> 00:16:28.360 Amanda: You you joined into the hunt. 00:16:28.420 --> 00:16:30.515 Now now he knows what the hunt is. 00:16:30.515 --> 00:16:30.795 I know. 00:16:30.795 --> 00:16:32.995 And so now you're both out there looking for a 00:16:32.995 --> 00:16:33.495 win. 00:16:34.115 --> 00:16:36.675 Anke: I'm like, see, now that's where my question comes in. 00:16:36.675 --> 00:16:37.075 Right? 00:16:37.075 --> 00:16:42.220 So because now I'm scared of another incident like that because 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.140 but on the back of the experience. 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:44.920 Right? 00:16:44.920 --> 00:16:50.355 So now he probably has the same thing going on, you know, and on and he will 00:16:50.355 --> 00:16:55.315 notice that I'm, like, tense even though I'm consciously and I probably put all my 00:16:55.315 --> 00:16:58.190 effort in not showing it and not being it. 00:16:58.890 --> 00:17:02.170 And still, I'm looking whether I can see another dog coming somewhere. 00:17:02.170 --> 00:17:02.670 Right? 00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:05.050 Well, and and How do you break through that cycle? 00:17:05.050 --> 00:17:09.995 Because if I don't get through that cycle, he will always read that. 00:17:09.995 --> 00:17:13.515 Like, he will always perceive that from me and which will make a part of 00:17:13.515 --> 00:17:14.555 Amanda: whatever you're feeling. 00:17:14.635 --> 00:17:17.400 Anke: How do I fix my end of this. 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.660 Amanda: So so, again, intention without reservation. 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:22.620 So going in right now, your intention or the way you described your intention in 00:17:23.475 --> 00:17:27.875 your intention in those moments is, again, you're you're joining in on the hunt. 00:17:27.875 --> 00:17:33.060 You're you're gatewaying and magnetizing The oncoming male dog. 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:34.240 With you're scanning for it. 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:34.800 You're looking for it. 00:17:34.800 --> 00:17:37.440 And if you find 1, your whole body is gonna be like, oh my god. 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:37.760 Oh my god. 00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:38.160 Oh my god. 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.815 There's a dog. 00:17:38.895 --> 00:17:39.495 What we do. 00:17:39.495 --> 00:17:43.475 What we gotta do, and he's just all he's picking up on is mom's afraid. 00:17:43.695 --> 00:17:44.655 I feel the fear. 00:17:44.655 --> 00:17:47.455 She's look oh, it's all centered at this 1 dog. 00:17:47.455 --> 00:17:48.560 I gotta go get him. 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:49.440 I gotta go. 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:51.940 That's that's where all my energy needs to go. 00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:54.800 That's how you know, this this is this is what's going on. 00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:57.675 That's that's the communication that's going on in that moment. 00:17:57.755 --> 00:18:01.055 So if you wanna change the communication, you have to change your intention. 00:18:01.515 --> 00:18:05.690 So first thing you gotta do is get yourself in a place where you're Confident 00:18:05.690 --> 00:18:09.230 that if you encounter another male dog, you know exactly what you're gonna do. 00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:13.470 Um, so this happens a lot because a lot of the dogs that I walk are dog reactive. 00:18:14.205 --> 00:18:18.385 Um, or sometimes I don't even the owners aren't even aware or don't even see. 00:18:18.525 --> 00:18:21.725 Um, and you also if you're getting approached especially by an off leash dog 00:18:21.725 --> 00:18:25.800 that's not even around an owner, You have no idea what that dog's gonna do or how 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:27.740 it's gonna act or what's gonna happen. 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:32.575 So for me, when I'm out with my dog or any other dog, it's If 00:18:32.575 --> 00:18:35.695 a dog approaches us, I am no. 00:18:35.695 --> 00:18:37.135 Like, I put my hand out. 00:18:37.135 --> 00:18:39.875 I the whole thing is you're not coming over here. 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:41.940 Like, you don't wanna come over here? 00:18:42.080 --> 00:18:44.260 There's there's nothing you want over here? 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:45.440 You're not coming. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:46.720 And it's not a, oh my god. 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.080 I hope you don't come over here. 00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:49.695 It's you're not coming over here. 00:18:49.775 --> 00:18:51.315 You're gonna stay right over there. 00:18:51.455 --> 00:18:54.495 You're gonna stay right where you are, and you're not gonna come over here. 00:18:54.495 --> 00:18:57.535 Now can that fail and the thing charged me? 00:18:57.535 --> 00:18:59.750 But in the back of my mind, I'm Okay. 00:18:59.750 --> 00:19:03.510 If that happens and, again, I try not to think about that in the 00:19:03.510 --> 00:19:06.550 moment because you wanna let your body take over muscle memory anyway. 00:19:06.550 --> 00:19:09.575 Plus, you don't wanna be thinking, Oh, but what if it attacks me? 00:19:09.575 --> 00:19:12.775 Because then I'm communicating to the dog I'm with that it might come 00:19:12.775 --> 00:19:17.520 attack us and the other dog, instead of feeling that wall of resistance of 00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:22.420 you shall not pass, the the Gandalf, you shall not pass, it's not happening. 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:27.895 Um, you know, he get He can pick up on that sliver of insecurity of of, 00:19:28.035 --> 00:19:32.275 you know, my intention faltering, my me having that reservation of, oh, 00:19:32.275 --> 00:19:34.295 he might actually cross that road. 00:19:34.550 --> 00:19:40.300 Um, but, again, it's it's if it's an off leash dog, um, you know, I don't have to 00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:42.722 worry as much because my dog's on leash. 00:19:42.722 --> 00:19:45.815 So if something happens, it's I'm not at fault. 00:19:45.915 --> 00:19:48.555 Um, again, of course, I don't want something to happen, so 00:19:48.555 --> 00:19:50.715 it's I will use my my legs. 00:19:50.715 --> 00:19:51.915 I'll kick it away. 00:19:51.915 --> 00:19:53.135 I'll circle around. 00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:56.520 Um, 1 thing I know as a natural dog trainer is to keep things moving. 00:19:56.520 --> 00:20:00.140 A lot of people wanna stop and get their dog in a sit or stop movement, 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:05.155 which actually heightens, Um, the intensity and the the electricity 00:20:05.455 --> 00:20:09.555 in the moment so you wanna keep things moving as much as possible. 00:20:09.775 --> 00:20:12.720 Um, so a lot of times when I encounter a an off leash dog. 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.620 I won't run. 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.440 I won't move away fast, but I'll start circling or I'll start moving 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.515 and just keeping the flow going, Um, to kinda just not let everything come 00:20:22.515 --> 00:20:24.355 to a head or not let everything stop. 00:20:24.355 --> 00:20:27.235 So there's a lot of different things you can do in the moment, but 00:20:27.235 --> 00:20:31.240 the biggest thing is to just make sure, Um, you are confident in what 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:32.620 you're gonna do in that situation. 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:36.600 So if you have an idea, have a plan of, okay. 00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:39.765 If this happens again, I know how I'm gonna handle the situation. 00:20:39.905 --> 00:20:41.185 Then you're no longer scanning. 00:20:41.185 --> 00:20:42.305 You're no longer worrying. 00:20:42.305 --> 00:20:46.545 You're no longer um, if you see another dog, a male dog or 00:20:46.545 --> 00:20:49.230 somebody approaching and It's, oh, we're just gonna keep moving. 00:20:49.230 --> 00:20:53.070 We're gonna get out and go over to that way or where I'm not worried about it. 00:20:53.070 --> 00:20:55.950 The more you worry about it, the more the dog's gonna worry about it. 00:20:55.950 --> 00:20:57.825 If you can rectify Worry. 00:20:58.125 --> 00:21:03.485 By creating by being active, by actively, proactively, um, addressing 00:21:03.485 --> 00:21:07.160 it, That's how you're gonna get that intention set within yourself. 00:21:07.540 --> 00:21:10.180 And then, again, the dog will fall right in line. 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:11.300 It's gonna be like, okay. 00:21:11.300 --> 00:21:12.580 You know, mom's got this. 00:21:12.580 --> 00:21:17.385 I don't All I'm picking up from mom is confidence and fun, and we're gonna enjoy 00:21:17.385 --> 00:21:19.085 our walk no matter what we encounter. 00:21:19.945 --> 00:21:20.185 Yeah. 00:21:20.185 --> 00:21:20.425 No. 00:21:20.425 --> 00:21:20.665 That's 00:21:20.745 --> 00:21:24.300 Anke: I mean, definitely, like, over the years, like, I mean, like, these 00:21:24.300 --> 00:21:27.980 days, I mean, I always say that, like, I like, it's it's through that 00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:33.385 process that I've come to recognized a level of assertiveness in me 00:21:33.385 --> 00:21:35.005 that I didn't realize was there. 00:21:35.145 --> 00:21:35.465 You know? 00:21:35.465 --> 00:21:37.065 Because I'm not what he was saying before. 00:21:37.065 --> 00:21:38.025 Like, I'm the same now. 00:21:38.025 --> 00:21:40.740 I'm just like, you're not you're not coming. 00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:41.240 Right. 00:21:41.780 --> 00:21:42.180 You know? 00:21:42.180 --> 00:21:45.240 And it's almost like you don't you don't have to say anything. 00:21:45.300 --> 00:21:45.540 Right? 00:21:45.540 --> 00:21:48.260 You don't have to, like, you don't have to yell at the other dog. 00:21:48.260 --> 00:21:50.315 It's is like like Yeah. 00:21:50.435 --> 00:21:50.755 You will not 00:21:50.915 --> 00:21:54.515 Amanda: Usually, if I'm if I'm vocalizing, it's because there is an 00:21:54.515 --> 00:21:57.670 owner present, and so I'm letting the owner know even though I'm talking to 00:21:57.670 --> 00:22:00.310 the dog, I'm letting the owner know that they need to get control of their 00:22:00.310 --> 00:22:05.590 dog or they need to avoid or they need to, um, it's very much on that. 00:22:05.590 --> 00:22:08.535 Like, That's usually the only time I'm vocalizing. 00:22:08.675 --> 00:22:13.495 If there's no other human present, then, yeah, it's pure body language and movement 00:22:13.555 --> 00:22:15.690 of, yep, cool, hi, nice to see you. 00:22:15.690 --> 00:22:16.970 You're gonna stay right over there. 00:22:16.970 --> 00:22:18.250 We're gonna walk on by. 00:22:18.250 --> 00:22:20.570 Like, there's there's no play happening. 00:22:20.570 --> 00:22:21.530 Don't come over. 00:22:21.530 --> 00:22:21.930 You know? 00:22:21.930 --> 00:22:23.390 There's nothing to see here. 00:22:23.945 --> 00:22:27.065 We're just on a walk, and and you you you're better off 00:22:27.065 --> 00:22:28.665 staying on that side of the road. 00:22:28.665 --> 00:22:29.725 Thank you very much. 00:22:31.065 --> 00:22:31.385 Yeah. 00:22:31.385 --> 00:22:32.825 Anke: And it makes it just yeah. 00:22:32.825 --> 00:22:36.980 It makes just so much of a different so where can can people go and find 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.900 out more about natural doctrine and connect with you and really 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:43.465 explore the, you know, sort of 00:22:43.545 --> 00:22:44.425 Amanda: but the other way. 00:22:44.425 --> 00:22:44.925 Right? 00:22:45.785 --> 00:22:50.250 Um, I mean, first and foremost, I like like you, um, I when I 00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:54.010 read Kevin's book, uh, Your Dog is Your Mirror, it it it clicked. 00:22:54.010 --> 00:22:54.890 Everything just clicked. 00:22:54.890 --> 00:22:55.790 It made sense. 00:22:55.850 --> 00:22:58.675 I had gone to school for human psychology, and I had a bunch of 00:22:58.675 --> 00:23:03.075 questions about even human behavior at that point, and a lot of the answers 00:23:03.075 --> 00:23:07.095 before I even got to the dog end really made sense and and really resonated. 00:23:07.770 --> 00:23:11.290 Um, it was a very Like, this is this is what I've been looking for. 00:23:11.290 --> 00:23:14.590 This is what makes this answers those questions that I've been internally 00:23:14.650 --> 00:23:16.185 wrestling with for a long time. 00:23:16.985 --> 00:23:21.145 Um, so definitely start, um, with the book, uh, Your Dog is Your Mirror. 00:23:21.145 --> 00:23:24.905 If if the information resonates or if you wanna learn more or find more 00:23:24.905 --> 00:23:27.720 digestible, Um, it is it is pretty. 00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:30.840 It it's a dense read. 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:33.725 Um, there's a lot to munch on in there, and it's it. 00:23:33.725 --> 00:23:37.165 It's you I mean, quote after quote after quote where you're just gonna 00:23:37.165 --> 00:23:41.185 spend a lot of time just marinating on just the 1 couple sentences. 00:23:41.650 --> 00:23:42.690 Um, it's such a good book. 00:23:42.690 --> 00:23:44.150 It's got so much in there. 00:23:44.370 --> 00:23:49.435 Uh, there's also his website, um, natural dog training dot com that has, Um, his 00:23:49.435 --> 00:23:54.735 blog where he has a lot of his posts are up on there, um, that just go over, 00:23:55.195 --> 00:24:00.070 uh, so many different topics, Especially if you wanna get into more of the the 00:24:00.070 --> 00:24:04.470 theoretical side of really piecing together, um, how he came up with this 00:24:04.470 --> 00:24:08.745 theory and and the The complexities and the simplicities of the theory are there. 00:24:08.965 --> 00:24:12.985 Um, if you wanna get more into the nitty gritty hands on working with your dog, 00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:18.500 Um, there is, uh, the natural dog training study group, um, where you can actually 00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:23.085 communicate directly with, um, a bunch of his apprentices, A bunch of the the 00:24:23.085 --> 00:24:24.625 trainers that have worked with him. 00:24:24.845 --> 00:24:30.470 Uh, if you wanna get in contact with me, um, and do some 1 on like, a Consult 00:24:30.470 --> 00:24:37.405 or 1 on 1, um, learning the the 5 core exercises that Kevin taught, Um, and 00:24:37.405 --> 00:24:39.325 working on rehabilitating your dog. 00:24:39.325 --> 00:24:41.165 Or, again, maybe there's no problems. 00:24:41.165 --> 00:24:45.965 Maybe you just wanna foster a a better connection or really understand that 00:24:45.965 --> 00:24:51.040 communication, um, that prey predator dynamic, um, the the those kinds 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:55.300 of things, the intention without reservation, um, you wanna, you know, 00:24:55.465 --> 00:24:58.765 Work with your dog without even having to use commands and different things. 00:24:59.465 --> 00:25:02.045 Um, my website is doggies day off dot com. 00:25:02.105 --> 00:25:04.125 Uh, all my services are on there. 00:25:04.345 --> 00:25:09.610 Um, again, Um, my phone number, I'm on Instagram, all that fun stuff. 00:25:09.610 --> 00:25:12.090 But, definitely, I I would highly recommend starting 00:25:12.090 --> 00:25:13.150 with your dog, Dejumeir. 00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:16.045 Um, I think that's a great place to start. 00:25:16.425 --> 00:25:16.825 Anke: Awesome. 00:25:16.825 --> 00:25:19.305 I'll put, obviously, the links are gonna be in the show notes and 00:25:19.305 --> 00:25:23.170 below this video if you're, um, watching it through the newsletter. 00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:23.890 So thank you. 00:25:23.890 --> 00:25:25.030 Thank you so much. 00:25:25.410 --> 00:25:25.890 Um, Yeah. 00:25:25.890 --> 00:25:29.890 I definitely feel this needs to be out there in a in a much bigger way. 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:33.795 And so whatever we can do to do that, I think, uh, let's do 00:25:33.795 --> 00:25:34.295 it. 00:25:34.835 --> 00:25:35.075 Amanda: Yes. 00:25:35.075 --> 00:25:38.915 And thank you so much for putting all this effort and work into your your 00:25:38.915 --> 00:25:42.700 podcast, your business, um, so that there is, You know, and having me on 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:46.540 here so that I can help get that out there, um, that's definitely I think 00:25:46.540 --> 00:25:53.215 we share that in common, uh, a goal to get more more eyes and ears and And 00:25:53.215 --> 00:25:55.635 and mine's into natural dog training. 00:25:56.600 --> 00:25:57.740 Perfectly absolutely. 00:25:57.960 --> 00:25:58.860 Anke: So thank you. 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:00.140 Yeah. 00:26:00.600 --> 00:26:01.340 Thank you. 00:26:02.015 --> 00:26:03.245 Thanks so much for listening. 00:26:03.765 --> 00:26:08.065 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:26:08.165 --> 00:26:09.945 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:26:10.735 --> 00:26:14.225 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:26:14.655 --> 00:26:20.225 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:26:20.325 --> 00:26:22.695 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:26:22.695 --> 00:26:26.425 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:26:26.845 --> 00:26:27.985 I'd love an introduction. 00:26:28.465 --> 00:26:30.295 Email me at Anke. 00:26:30.565 --> 00:26:34.800 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.