Wild Wisconsin - Off the Record | The Outdoor Beat

As the Wisconsin DNR prepares to welcome another warden recruitment class, now, more than ever, diversity in the field is essential to make sure the warden service reflects the communities they serve. In this episode, we hear from DNR Conservation Wardens Vong Xiong and Juan Gomez who come from different walks of life and serve the same mission. Both share how they were introduced to the career field, the experiences they’ve had and why it’s important to have people of color in the warden service.

Show Notes

SARAH HOYE: [00:00:00] From the Wisconsin DNR, this is Wild Wisconsin. Bringing you inside voices on Wisconsin's outdoors.

KATIE GRANT: [00:00:17] Welcome back to another episode of Wild Wisconsin Off the Record. I'm your host, Katie Grant. It's a new season. Spring has sprung and we're looking for our newest class of Conservation Wardens. At the Wisconsin DNR, we want to make sure our wardens represent our community. So today we're talking with wardens Juan Gomez and Vong Xiong about their experiences on the job and why diversity matters. So sit back and listen in.

All right. Thank you guys for joining us today. On this episode, we really want to talk about what it's like to be a Warden, why you wanted to become a Warden, what some of the challenges are that you face as a Warden and what your favorite part of being a Warden is. So to get started, why don't you guys go ahead and, and each introduce yourselves. Tell me your name, where you're based, the region you cover and kind of, you know, what it is that you do here. Vong let's go ahead and start with you.

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:01:17] Thanks, Katie. Again, I appreciate you having us on the show here and, um... kind of about who I am. My name is Vong Xiong. I'm a Conservation Warden for Jackson County in Wisconsin and I cover all of Jackson County right now.

There are two stations, technically one is vacant. So I do cover both sides of the County and, uh, that's... I'm a Field Warden so I spend every day out patrolling, enforcing ATV, boating, snowmobile laws. Uh, whatever the seasons bring is what I enforce. So that's pretty much the sum of what or who I am.

KATIE GRANT: [00:01:55] Perfect. And Juan, why don't you go ahead.

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:01:58] Sure I appreciate it. Um, my name is Juan Gomez. I am a Lieutenant with the Department of Natural Resources. I started in 2008 as a Field Warden, very similar to Vong, uh, down in Kenosha. Um, I spent about a year and a half in the Kenosha station before transferring to Walworth County where I spent a larger bulk of my career.

Um, when I was a Field Warden down there, um, I covered the county of Walworth by myself for, uh, a pretty extensive period of time, um, engaging with the public and enforcing recreational vehicle enforcement, environmental enforcement, um, uh, and a number of other areas that the department is responsible for.

Uh, in 2017, I promoted and I supervise the Field Wardens in Sheboygan and Fondulac County. I've again, been here since 2017, uh, have enjoyed every minute of it. I've had the opportunity now to, uh, use the skills that I learned while in the field and working with the field members that are now, uh, under my supervision to kind of help, uh, you know, mold them to be the best Field Wardens that they can be.

KATIE GRANT: [00:03:08] Absolutely. So DNR Conservation Wardens are credentialed law enforcement officers. You guys work across the state and are responsible for enforcing natural resources and recreation safety laws. You also educate the public on conservation topics and help patrol those state parks, forests and trails. Can you guys walk me through a little bit of what a typical day is? If there even is one.

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:03:34] You know, with, with a lot of our presentations, that's probably one of the most common questions that we received. You know, what does a typical day look like? And quite honestly, there is no typical day. So for example, right now, the fishing season is starting to become really hot. You know, fish are starting to swim up river and, and people are really starting to catch fish.

I might be out there with the intention of working fishermen today, you know, checking licenses, checking bag limits, and, and that kind of enforcement. But my, um, direction might be changed. Like a couple of weeks ago when I had to respond to a vehicle that was on fire in the state park. So it's one of those situations where something like that can happen in a split second and it could change your day.

You know, obviously we work closely with our, with our Sheriff's departments and we get dispatched, um, to help them out, you know, or we get dispatched to a traffic stop to help out the deputy with a traffic stop or whatever the case may be. So it changes almost daily.

KATIE GRANT: [00:04:41] For sure. So, you know, when you say you might be out there, uh, checking for licenses, checking bag limits during fishing season, are you just kind of randomly doing that to ensure compliance or, you know, what, what is the, the thought process or the reasoning behind doing kind of random checks like that?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:05:00] Yeah. So as everybody is aware of, as most people are aware, the Department of Natural Resources is tasked with enforcing laws, making sure that people abide by the regulations set forth by the, by the department to ensure that resources aren't being overused or, or being, um, over-utilized. And that everybody has a fair shake at these opportunities that Wisconsin provides as far as fishing, hunting, um, any of those recreational sports.

So by having, or by, by. uh, patrolling and being out there on a daily basis or on a weekly basis, whatever the case may be based on workload. Um, it, it allows the public to see us in a light that is positive because realistically we're, we're checking licenses and, you know, flying the flag, quote-unquote you know, talking to folks from the community and, and showing the community who we are as a person.

But the second part of that is to make sure that people do abide by those laws. So that those resources aren't being, um, spent, or aren't being used by somebody that may or may not have already caught their bag limit for the day, or have already caught their bag... uh, I'm sorry. possession limit for the two days that they were fishing.

KATIE GRANT: [00:06:19] Right. Yeah. We're... The DNR isn't just some building in Madison or, or wherever. Uh, we're people too. Right? Uh, that's a really great point to make Vong. Both of you took unique paths to becoming Wardens. Juan, you grew up in Chicago in the Humboldt Park neighborhood with little exposure to the outdoors. And I read recently in Latino Outdoors that your family sent you to summer camp in Wisconsin to keep you away from gangs. How did your summer camp experience lead to your interest in the outdoors?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:06:52] Sure. So, um at about the age of 11 in my local church, there was an opportunity for, uh, for me to go to a summer camp in Eagle River, Wisconsin and my family jumped on that opportunity, uh, just to get me out of the neighborhood.

Uh, the neighborhood that we lived in was at that time, pretty rough, uh, with multiple, uh, gang units in the area and not necessarily gang units that, or, uh, for one another either. There is always gunshots at, at night, there was always rival gang, uh, issues that we had to deal with. Um, you know, I, I was always directed to be home before the lights got, uh, when went on in the street lights.

Uh, so I had to make it home in the evening. Uh, just, uh, keep myself safe from getting involved with, uh, any of the crossfire or any of the fights that were happening with the local gangs. Um, so, you know, my family quickly realized that the environment that we lived in, uh, wasn't what they wanted me to be around.

Uh, so they sent me away to the summer camp where, uh, it was my first exposure to the natural resources and the outdoors. Um, it was a recreational youth camp, uh, where we did everything from swimming, fishing, uh, kayaking, canoeing, uh, taking trips down the Wisconsin River in canoes and kayaks. Um, and archery and... and you name it. Um, so that, that was my first kick at the can here with the outdoor adventures, uh, that the great state of Wisconsin has to offer.

KATIE GRANT: [00:08:25] Yeah. And I also read that you had, you know, an interesting ride home from college your freshman year. What did you see that changed your life path? Can you tell us a little bit about that story?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:08:36] Sure. So, uh, obviously with my great experience in Wisconsin, I chose to, uh, go to a college in Wisconsin and, uh, of all colleges I picked UW Lacrosse, uh, which is on the western side of the state, right along the Mississippi River there. And during my freshman year of college, I was driving home for our Thanksgiving break.

And, uh, during that time of year, it's obviously our traditional nine-day gun deer season. And that was really my first exposure to hunting. Uh, I was, I was about 18 or 19 years of age at that time. I'd never seen, uh, you know, the number of dead deer that I had seen that day on my drive home. Uh, it sparked a, uh, you know, uh, a spark... something that caused me to go and ask my advisor at the multicultural office, uh, to learn what was going on. Because again, it just was very odd to me at the time, uh, to see all these dead deer being transported on vehicles. So on my, on my return, back to school that following Monday or Tuesday, uh, having my interactions with the multicultural advisor that I had, I had asked them what was going on.

And he says, well, you haven't heard of the traditional nine-day gun season here in Wisconsin. It's huge. And I'm like, no, I've never, I've never, I've never heard of it. I've never seen it. Don't know what you're talking about. Um, so he encouraged me to take the Hunter Safety program and, uh, I took them up on that.

I took Hunter Safety that following spring, and, uh, that following fall, he introduced me to his deer camp, uh, where I have grown to be really good friends with him and his, his group of hunters that he hunts with and have had opportunities to return back to deer camp, to hunt with them, uh, since becoming a Conservation Warden.

And then it's just something that has grown on me that, uh, uh, you wouldn't believe. I've taken everything on from deer hunting to trapping, to, uh, upland bird hunting. And those are all things that I would have never participated in had I not had that experience on my drive home from the university, uh, and nor had I had asked my advisor about what was taking place.

KATIE GRANT: [00:10:51] For sure. So that made you interested in the hunting side of it. What was it ultimately that made you want to become a Conservation Warden?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:10:58] Sure. So, you know, obviously during my Hunter Ed Pro... uh, course that I had to take, uh, as Wardens, we go into these courses and provide generally an hour, an hour and a half presentation.

And that was actually my first exposure to a Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Warden. Uh, you know, prior to that, I had never engaged with one, uh, here in Wisconsin, nor down in Illinois. Uh, I wasn't really aware of what the position was or what they did. Uh, so after their presentation, it sparked an interest, uh, in me that I actually started doing a little bit of research of what a Warden was and what they, what they're responsible for and what they do on a day-to-day basis.

Uh, my, my research led me to want to do ride alongs. Uh, cause as a, as an agency, we do provide ride alongs for those that are 16 years of age and older. And I participated in two ride alongs with Wardens, just to get a perspective on what the job was like. Um, I took the opportunity to take the, uh, ride along in Eagle River, uh, and the Eagle River, Three Lakes area.

Because at that time, uh, during my university years, I was, uh, working at the summer camp that I attended when I was a young child. Um, and I also took the opportunity to ride along with a Warden down in the Kenosha, Walworth area. Uh, because my wife, my now wife was from Kenosha and, uh, I just happened to be visiting her down there and made an appointment to do a ride-along with the Warden that was stationed down there at that time. And during my interactions with these Wardens, it really, uh, enhanced my want to be a Warden. Um, and I just started to prepare myself to apply for positions when positions became available.

KATIE GRANT: [00:12:45] For sure. Yeah. Vong, you were born in a refugee camp in Thailand and came to the US as a small child before your family settled in Wisconsin. Tell me a little bit about how you became interested in the outdoors.

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:13:00] Yeah, so Katie, um, basically, you know, right there, I was born in a refugee camp. Um, my family moved multiple times. Uh, every time I asked my mom or, or my dad, the story changes of course, but, um, you know, they list anywhere from five to six times we moved. We landed in Charlotte, North Carolina, and then we moved multiple times ending up in Milwaukee and then moving eventually to Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

And that's where a lot of my family resides. So as far as cousins, uncles, and stuff like that. Um, so a lot of the Hmong community, as most Wisconsinites know, are really big into hunting and fishing. I never got into hunting mainly because my mom was concerned about firearms. She was not fond of firearms.

So I did not hunt growing up. But I participated in fishing and that comes from, you know, hanging out with my cousins, my uncles, my brothers, we fished all the time growing up. And that was primarily what sparked my interest in the outdoors was, was the fishing aspect. And of course, growing up in the, uh, childhood that I did.

Coming from where I came from, we didn't have money. We didn't have money to spend on luxury items. So we obviously didn't have money to spend on snowmobiles, ATVs, boats, any of that stuff, because that's, that's really expensive to begin with. But we also didn't have those connections, even to folks that had access to those kinds of items.

You know, obviously, I had friends at school that had access to those items. But being that I felt like I was different than everybody else. It was hard to connect with folks and, and reach out and, and kind of step out of my comfort zone to do some of those kinds of things. So I never got into that stuff until I became a Warden.

Um, but prior to me becoming a Warden, um, when I graduated high school, I had wanted to get into law enforcement. And what really got me interested in law enforcement to begin with was a class that I took in high school. It's called Everyday Law. You learn about the constitution. You learn about policing in America.

Um, you learn about, you know, laws that pertain to just every day, uh, lives. So, you know, something as simple as parking laws, something as simple as, um, speeding vehicle laws, any of that stuff. So that's, that's primarily what got me interested in the law enforcement realm. And then I attended Fox Valley technical college and obtained my criminal justice degree in law enforcement.

And from there, I didn't, I still, uh, at this point, did not know that Conservation Wardens existed. Much like Juan it wasn't until much later in my life that I learned about what Wardens were or what they even did. I actually remember this day vividly because it got me really interested. I was fishing on the banks of the Fox River in Oshkosh, uh, fishing for catfish at night.

I think it was about nine or I think it was about eight or nine o'clock at night. And as I was leaving, I was with my cousin and his girlfriend and we were leaving and two officers came up to us and asked for fishing licenses. And I thought they were police officers and I thought they were, um, you know, city police officers checking fishing licenses.

And it, it didn't dawn on me until I looked at the badge and looked at the patches and realized, wait, these aren't police officers, these are, these are Wardens. What, what are Wardens? So I started asking a couple of questions. And from there, it really got me interested now that, you know, now I had, instead of one route where I was going to go into law enforcement, I'll add two routes that I could go.

Um, Knowing that Conservation Wardens do enforce laws. Um, and they do protect the public, you know, just like police officers do, um, with the specific direction of protecting the natural resources. So from there I attended, graduated from the Police Academy at Fox Valley technical college. Then I attended UW Oshkosh for my bachelor degree.

And in attending UW Oshkosh, I took environmental courses like geology, geography, um, you know, you name it, just any of those, uh, any of those environmental courses. And so through those courses, I learned more about, you know, carbon footprint, the human impact on our natural resources, the importance of why we have natural resource departments to maintain.

The integrity of those ecosystems. And that really got me interested because we are at a time right now where we can make a difference in how we use the resource, whether it's the biological side of it or the enforcement side of it. Obviously, the rules don't mean anything if we don't have an enforcement branch to it.

So, um, with that being said, that really got me interested in and immediately following taken those courses that Spring, the position is opened up for our Deputy Warden position. And that's basically a LTE or a limited-term employment position as a Conservation Warden with the department. And I am, I applied for that and I was successful and was hired and worked on the Mississippi River in Lacrosse.

As a Deputy Warden or a, a, an LTE Conservation Warden part-time and I worked with the full-time guys and I gained the experience with the boating, fishing or the boating, hunting, trapping, snowmobiling, ATV. Um, I learned a lot about that stuff and my, my climb was very steep, but I learned all that, you know, and I'm still learning today, but, um, I, I learned a lot of that stuff through that job, through that part-time LTE position. And then I was successfully hired as a full-time Conservation Warden in 2018. So that's essentially how I became a Conservation Warden.

KATIE GRANT: [00:19:04] Yeah. I think it's really interesting to note that, you know, you, you really started here in that part-time... that LTE position, you know, that, that not being a full-time gig didn't scare you away. Do you feel like that has made you a better full-time Conservation Warden now?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:19:21] I can tell you if I had gone into applying for a full-time Conservation Warden without ever being in a limited-term or an LTE Conservation Warden I would be 10 steps behind because I wouldn't have had the experiences with boating. I wouldn't have had the experiences with hunting, trapping, ATV you name it. So that really excelled, I think excelled my application and my resume and not on paper, but in terms of experience and getting into a full-time Conservation Warden already having done the job, um, part-time for two years prior to being hired full time, um, that definitely helped out and it didn't scare me. You know, with a job like this with as much responsibility as Wardens have it didn't scare me, you know, getting into it and saying, holy crap, that's a lot of stuff I have to know. It was man, there's a lot of stuff I have to know and I'm, I'm willing to build on it and, and learn more about all the stuff that I have to enforce.

KATIE GRANT: [00:20:28] Yeah, for sure. Juan, you mentioned that, you know, you spent a lot of your career here so far in Walworth County, which, you know, it's a, it's an area that sees a high level of boating traffic. In 2013, you were named the National Boating Law Enforcement Officer by the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators.

So you've spent a lot of time you know, responding to search and rescue situations, many times involving intoxicated boaters. And you've done a lot of work around educating the public on safe boating. Especially because that boating is so prevalent in the area that you were working in. Why is educating the public on that safety perspective so important?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:21:10] Sure. With the amount of presence that we as Field Wardens give, uh, we, we typically try and use that as a deterrent from, uh, people making poor decisions while they're out recreating. Um, you know, a number of the accidents that we respond to generally involve, uh, alcohol and or drugs. And if we can get out there and prevent an accident prior to it happening, uh, the better we are, um, uh, as a whole. You know, a lot of times, uh, the investigations that we are involved with, um, once the accident has taken place, it takes a lot of time and resource and energy from, uh, you know, a variety of, uh, individuals, whether it's the Field Wardens or the local Sheriff's department and, or the dive personnel that we have to utilize to recover a body that's now submerged under, underwater. Um, so if we can be out there, provide the presence, be the deterrent and provide a safety message at every contact that we make, um, the better we are as a whole.

KATIE GRANT: [00:22:13] Absolutely. Yeah. Changing gears a little bit. Vong, you have two young nephews that you take everywhere. I can totally relate to that. I...my niece, when she was younger was basically my Mini-Me. So I totally get that. Why is getting them to enjoy the outdoors so important to you?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:22:31] Yeah. So a lot of, well, not just for, um, the future of the department. You know, obviously, we are tasked with, as I mentioned before with, with, uh, the management of the resources, but the only way to continue that management, the only way to continue to ensure that we have access to those resources is, uh, funding obviously.

And, and without people, without new faces coming into the sport, the funding obviously will decrease. Over the last decade, we've seen decreases at an average of 2% in recreational sports every year. And that's troublesome because that takes away money from the funding that will essentially manage those resources.

So, um, not only is it important from that aspect of it, but from the personal aspect of having these kids get into the outdoors and, and taking that step like I did, out of their comfort zone to enjoy something that really is... as a resource that should be cherished. It's a resource that not everybody has access to.

You know, some third-world countries don't have it as well as we do as far as the resource goes. And that's super important in my opinion, with, with that and, and introducing kids to, um, something that is a good pastime. Rather you know, uh, then spending time sitting at home, playing video games all day or, or getting into trouble with uh, drugs, alcohol, whatever the case may be. It gets them into, into the outdoors to enjoy something that will keep them out of trouble and put new faces into the sport as well as, as help manage the resource.

KATIE GRANT: [00:24:15] And I think the, the pastime aspect you mentioned is really important. Uh, on our last episode we talked to...well, we talked to, uh, Dr. Shilagh Mirgain from UW Madison about the importance of getting outdoors for mental health. And, you know, right now we're spending so much time on Zoom, so much time on our computers, you know, virtual schooling, virtual work... whatever it may be and so giving them that pastime that gets them outdoors, yeah. Super, super important right now. So, this job isn't always easy. How do you guys take care of yourselves? When the work gets to be heavy emotionally?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:24:51] Yeah, so I, I can start off. Um, so you see it a lot in the statistics that were published over the last decade, last 20 years with law enforcement and kind of the troubles that law enforcement runs into. And a lot of those involve alcohol. You know, it's a super stressful job. A lot of the decisions you have to make are very difficult and adding alcohol to the mix obviously does not help things. And that's why the suicide rates amongst police officers were so high for such a long time. And they're still really high.

Um, the way that I cope with the stress of the job is as I get outside, I get outside and I, I do fish. You know, I participate in fishing. I participate in hunting. I participate in, in boating when I can, um, going for hikes at our state parks, any of that stuff. And then when I get home, say there's not enough time for any of that other stuff.

I exercise, you know, I lift weights. I have lifted weights competitively now for, for 10 years, you know, in some fashion. Um, even when I haven't competed, so to speak, I've lifted weights to, to maintain that mental, mental health and mental awareness.

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:26:05] Yeah, for me, I would say that it starts at home with the family. I have a very supportive spouse. Um, she is the bedrock of the family and kind of can tell when I am, uh, kind of drawing that line where I need to get out and do something. Um, because obviously there is a lot of stress, stresses with the, uh, type of work that we get involved in, um, with our investigations, whether it's a, you know, fatal snowmobile or ATV accident or a hunting-related incident that takes place.

And, uh, you know, we're dealing with either a deceased individual or a person that was severely injured and now we're having to deal with, you know, not only the investigation, but the emotional sides of that investigation and the families that are, uh, related to the individual that, uh, uh, was either injured or is now deceased.

So my wife is very quick to kind of point those items out to me. Uh, and for me, what I ha, what I enjoy to do is to spend as much time outdoors. And actually, I, I enjoy woodland management. Believe it or not. Um, uh, while I was down in Walworth, I managed a 130 acre tree farm. And for me, it's running behind the chainsaw, uh, cutting, cutting wood.

And for us now at home, it's for the fireplace, uh, and, or, uh, taking care of the invasives that are out on the property. Um, I also love to be on a lawnmower. Um, you know, between the, uh, the earmuffs and the hum of the machine there's nothing, no other stressors around. And for me, that's a reliever. Um, and then all the added recreational activities that we enjoy.

So the hiking with the family, the biking, uh, the playing or throwing a ball with my three kids, um, and getting them involved outside, um, That's really how I kind of cope with the stresses is just, um, you know, interacting with the family as much as I can. And then doing the things that I enjoy doing, where there's very little thought or stress, stresses involved.

KATIE GRANT: [00:28:09] Last summer, this country faced a racial reckoning with the spotlight on law enforcement becoming brighter. Were either of you impacted by the national discussion about race and law enforcement?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:28:20] Katie. I think everybody is impacted by the discussion. Whether you're a police officer, whether you're a civilian, it doesn't really matter because realistically all our lives are governed by the government. Um, whether it's traffic laws, fishing, you know, DNR laws, um, ordinances, any of that stuff, it's governed by that.

And whether you have positive or negative interactions with the police. So it impacts everybody. And it's super important to be part of that discussion, whether it's from the law enforcement aspect or it's from the civilian aspect, because change starts with every one of us.

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:29:03] What I would add is that the job has become a little bit more difficult, um, over the, you know, 12 plus years that I've been doing it. And, and as of late, you know, I've had experiences where, uh, individuals are more challenging. Uh, they, they challenge the law enforcement's authority. They challenge, uh, why you're stopping them. They're challenging why you're even having a simple, basic conversation during one of our compliance checks. Um, and that has really, uh, put a dagger into, into the work that we do, um, because the, the joyful conversations that we used to have about, Hey, how's your day going?

Oh, how many fish have you caught? Um, you know, how is, how is it today in your world? Um, some of those conversations are no longer taking place and they're much shorter. Um, and they're very more direct and pointed and folks aren't engaged in those types of conversations, because I think that there's this kind of sentiment that they have to be kind of standoffish because now you're the authority.

You're here interacting with them and they may be in trouble. Uh, and that's not always the case. You know, you know, 90 plus percent of the people that we deal with on a daily basis are nice people. They're enjoyable to a conversate with, and there's no violations or anything that, uh, we are there to write them a civil forfeiture for. Uh, you know, a lot of times it's just a simple conversation to see how your day's going, see what you have in your basket.

Make sure that you're in compliance with the state law. And really just to have a conversation. Um, and I, those days I think are, are, are gone. Um, I, I, like I said, I've noticed a change in our conversations or a context are becoming a little bit more challenging. Um, as we do our work.

KATIE GRANT: [00:30:55] You know, if we're being honest, Wisconsin's Conservation Warden service is not super diverse. Right? Why should a person of color want to be a Warden with us here in Wisconsin, if they don't see themselves in that group? If they don't see that diversity there?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:31:10] A couple of things here. I think if a person has interest in the outdoors and managing or protecting the resource and they have a want to be a law enforcement officer, I don't think that not seeing yourself in those shoes should stop you for a couple of reasons. Because the saying is, if not me then who? If not now, then when? So if you don't take that step forward, nobody else will take that step forward and nothing will change. So don't look at it as, Hey, I don't see anybody that looks like me.

Look at it as, this is an opportunity for me to show the world who I am. And for me to be that first person that other folks can look up to, that I can push for that, that you know, that I can push other folks to be.,Um, in the future.

KATIE GRANT: [00:32:06] Bringing in more diversity is something that's really important to the DNR right now. Why do you believe having a diverse team of Wardens is crucial and how does it help the DNR better serve the community?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:32:17] Because I'd start off by saying that if we don't have those diverse backgrounds we're viewing things with tunnel vision, Um, you know, when you look at the recreational activities, people recreate for variety of reasons. And if we were to hire the individuals of alike and they only see it one way, that's how that, that mechanism or that, uh, recreational activity is going to be governed.

KATIE GRANT: [00:32:42] Yeah. Vong, did you want to add anything to that?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:32:45] Yeah, the, um, I guess the only thing I would really add is when we better represent the public, we better represent the trusting relationship that can be there or that is there.

KATIE GRANT: [00:32:59] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And you know, the Wisconsin DNR serves really everyone who lives works and recreates in Wisconsin. How do you guys connect with people who are different than you while you're doing your jobs?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:33:11] I really don't look at it as, Hey, you're different than me. I look at, as this is an opportunity to build another relationship with a person of the public. Whether it's somebody that I've talked to before, once before, twice before, whatever the case may be, it's an opportunity to build that relationship, provide my contact information if they ever need or have questions.

Um, because really Wardens are here to help out the public. We're here to investigate obviously environmental, uh, crimes, wildlife crimes, and those sorts of things. But, we're a resource that the department has, um, to help out the public.

KATIE GRANT: [00:33:52] We'll lighten it up a little bit here. What gets each of you excited to get out of bed and go to work every morning?

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:33:57] I said for me, it's, uh, you know, there's no two days alike. Um, I can. I can anticipate having a game plan for my day and having something pop up that completely changes what I thought I was going to do. Uh, I, I love to engage with my team now that I'm in supervision. Um, I have the opportunity to work with young Wardens that are just starting the career, uh, and provide a different perspective than I do. Uh, they have different ways of doing the job than I'm accustomed to and are always teaching me new tricks. Um, especially with like social media and, um, uh, internet-based investigations, the things that these guys think of, uh, to try and, and develop a case.

It's just phenomenal. Those are things that I probably would never think of and, you know, rely on these guys to kind of guide me through some of these and kind of educate me. Um, I love the fact that my office is outdoors. You know, uh, as Wardens, we have mobile offices, you know, we live and breathe in our vehicles.

The vehicles that we drive have everything that we need for the day and for the weather and for the circumstance. Um, we rarely spend time inside an office. And in the times that we do spend in the office is generally following up on casework or, uh, reports that we have to write. It's more comfortable sitting at a desk to type a report than it is to be sitting sideways in your, uh, vehicle, uh, trying, trying to type a report. Um, I love how the seasons change. Uh, there there's no, no two seasons alike. I just love uh, the opportunity to work outdoors. I love that I never know what my day's going to bring.

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:35:36] Yeah. I think it aligns a lot with what Juan has is that there's no two days alike. Um, the variety of the job is super fantastic. I mean, it's one where I don't wake up and say, man, it's time to go to my, you know, everyday boring, normal job. It's man. What, what is today going to bring? You know, and that being on your toes constantly is, is really important for not only professional development, but for mental development.

Because if you'd never exposed yourself to a new challenge, a new don't learn from the new challenge, you never really change as a person. So that professional development is super important to me. I think we should always strive to be better in any position that we hold. Uh, whether it's coaching, whether it's sports, whether it's your job, you should always strive to be the best person that you can be.

Um, not necessarily wanting to promote or anything like that, but just be a better employee. Um, because then people look up to you and. Uh, you know, people look towards you for advice and all that kind of stuff. So the other aspect of it is, is that I wake up and this job is so important because we do enforce and regulate the natural resources.

Uh, and we are also coupled with protecting the public. And those two things to me are very important. Obviously, as a person that likes to hunt and fish, I think it's super important that we ensure that we have those natural resources for the future generations. Um, so waking up every day and, and being able to make a difference through every single contact. You know, pulling somebody out of the water that you know, who got overturned and their kayak or the canoe. Or, um, responding... responding to an ATV crash where somebody breaks a leg and helping transport them out of the trail system so that they can get medical attention and, and start to, to, um, uh, heal. So all of that stuff is super important and that's really what gets me out of bed every day.

KATIE GRANT: [00:37:50] What advice do you both have for anyone who's interested in becoming a Warden?

WARDEN VONG XIONG: [00:37:55] My advice being that, you know, prior to, uh, being hired part-time in 2016, was don't be afraid to fail. Get into this job. Never be afraid to fail because you only learn from your failures. You'll learn that, hey that didn't work this time. Let me try it again. Next time doing it this way. So you learn from your failures. Um, again, you, you develop that professionalism, you develop that, that resume quote-unquote. And so my advice, my biggest advice is don't be afraid to fail and don't be afraid to take chances.

WARDEN JUAN GOMEZ: [00:38:34] And I guess I'll add to that, that, uh, you know, our state has the opportunity to provide individuals with the ride-along opportunities that I spoke with prior.

If someone is really interested in knowing what we do or how we do it, or someone is trying to determine if this is the right career path for them, I would encourage them to participate in those ride alongs. Vong had mentioned the LTE program. Uh, I look at the LTE program as a stepping stone to becoming a full-time Conservation Warden.

The LTE program allows a person the opportunity to develop the skills that are necessary to be a Conservation Warden. Uh, Vong said it himself that without the LTE position, he would have been a lost soul, uh, coming through the ranks of, uh, as a Warden. Um, so I, I just, always recommend that, uh, you know, if a guy's interested in this position that they utilize the LTE position as that stepping stone to learn the job, uh, try and get, you know, a feel for what Wardens do for a day-to-day basis and apply the skills that they learned during that during their time in that position to better themselves in the interview process.

Uh, or promote themselves during that interview process so that they're successful candidates getting offered the full-time position.

KATIE GRANT: [00:39:57] The application period to become a Warden is now open through April 25th. Visit dnr.wi.gov and search "Warden Recruitment" for more information and to apply today.

SARAH HOYE: [00:40:10] You've been listening to Wild Wisconsin. A podcast brought to you by the Wisconsin DNR. For more great episodes listen and subscribe to Wild Wisconsin wherever you get your podcasts.

What is Wild Wisconsin - Off the Record?

Wild Wisconsin: Off The Record is bringing you inside voices on Wisconsin's outdoors.

It doesn’t matter if you live to hunt and fish, watch birds, love camping, or you're someone who
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