WEBVTT

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What is up, everybody?

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It is the chairman of the

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United States Department of Nerds,

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where we are for the people,

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by the people, and of the people.

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You are listening to the USBN on the DSPN.

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Thanks for watching!

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All right, what's up, everybody?

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Today,

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I have a big night for everybody

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planned out.

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We're getting to sit down

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with Bobby Campbell and his

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new kit starter,

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Tales of the Illuminatus issue two,

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correct?

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That is all correct.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, it's great to be here.

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So let's just dive right into it.

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What is the Tales of the Illuminatis?

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I know it's an anthology

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book series by Robert Shea

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and Robert Anton Wilson, but how did you,

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sir, become involved with this book?

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Sure, yeah.

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So it kind of started out

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about twenty years ago.

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A friend of mine left the original

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book trilogy sitting in my

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bedroom and I picked it up.

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Opened it up and within about two,

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two and a half days,

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I'd gone through and read

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all eight hundred pages.

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I didn't do anything else

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for days and days and just

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read through and got pulled

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through infinity into a

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brand new way of looking at the world.

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And I just got really into

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especially Robert Anton Wilson.

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So there's two authors in the book,

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Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea.

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Robert Anton Wilson is the

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one that kind of made that

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world his calling card.

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He went on to write like

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sequels and prequels and a

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lot of nonfiction books

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that pick up the theme of the novel.

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So I just, I went to the library.

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They had pretty much

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everything Robert Anton

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Wilson had ever written.

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And I just read through the whole thing.

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And just a couple of years later,

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Robert Anton Wilson opened

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up an online workshop space.

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He was stricken with post-polio syndrome,

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so he couldn't go around

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and do his usual speaking engagements.

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So we opened up an online

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space where he could get

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like put on workshops and I

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got to know him.

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I got to do some artwork for

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him and just kind of became

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involved in his world.

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And then after he passed,

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I became involved with his estate,

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doing book covers and other things.

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Yeah,

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so I've been kind of working in this

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general world for about twenty years,

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and the guy that owns the

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media adaptation rights to

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Illuminatus reached out to

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me just to have a

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conversation about possibilities,

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and he was kind of hinting

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at that he wanted to maybe

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have a comic book adaptation of the novel,

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and I was explaining to him

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why I couldn't do it,

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because this book is crazy.

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It is...

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so it's kaleidoscopic, it's multifaceted,

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it's, it's unfilmable, it's undoable.

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And I was as I was

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explaining why I couldn't do it,

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I talked myself into doing it,

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because I had found the

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path into it while while I

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was explaining that there was no path.

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And that was, I guess,

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about a year and a half ago.

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And last summer,

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we put out the first issue,

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and it all kind of went perfectly.

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And so we're back at it again.

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I'm not going to lie.

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I read your editor.

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I think it's your editor.

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He edits the book,

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and he's also the one that

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owns the rights to Illuminatus.

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When he reached out to me to say, hey,

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will you interview Bobby?

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I was like, yeah, sure, absolutely.

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He's like, hey, here's volume one,

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give it a read, or issue one,

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give it a read.

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You start scrolling through it,

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and you're like,

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hell am I reading right now?

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You go through eight pages

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and then all of a sudden you're,

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there's the story.

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I think it was like eight pages,

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something like that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The story.

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And then you're like, Oh, okay.

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And then you start reading and you're like,

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Oh wow, this is, this is different.

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This is out there.

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So that, that drove me to go in.

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Okay.

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Let me Google the book.

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Then I'll read that first few, you know,

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few pages of the book.

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And I'm like,

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I'm like oh damn this is

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just out there yeah though

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I will say like so

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illuminatus is one of those

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uh books I always describe

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it as like the velvet

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underground of literature

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whereas like the book

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itself never became that

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overwhelmingly famous I

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mean it it did very well

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back in the seventies um but

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but it never became like a

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bestseller in a traditional sense.

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But so many people who read

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it then went on to become

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influential writers and

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artists and like every kind of, uh,

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creatives in the world.

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Following from what I

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gathered from just reading

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what little bit I did and

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what little bit of research

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I had a little bit of time

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to do from between everything else.

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It's got a cult following

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and it seems really popular.

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I know there was, um,

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Robert Antoine Wilson has,

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somebody did a fan page for

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him on Blue Sky.

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So when I was posting,

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I was doing my interview with you.

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And I'm like, oh, cool.

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Like, you know, I asked the question, like,

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oh, how did it feel?

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You know,

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somebody making your book into a

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comic book.

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And they're like, oh, he's he passed.

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And I'm just tribute page.

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I'm like.

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Oh, shit.

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Like, my bad.

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Hang on, let me go back and look.

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I went and seen his

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birthdays and like when he passed,

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I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense,

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you know?

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Yeah,

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but it's been great because his

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legend has kind of grown since he passed.

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And he's probably more

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popular now than he ever was.

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The great ones are always that way.

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Yeah.

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And so it's been wild to

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actually like work on

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something that has this

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like built in audience and

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this built in support.

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We did the small press expo

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and the amount of people we

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just we had a steady stream

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of people coming by the

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table just wanting to tell

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us about the first time

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they read Illuminatus.

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And just there was this

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outpouring of recognition

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and love that was really encouraging.

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and you know I never seen a

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single negative thing about

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the book when I was doing

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my my research on it

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everybody was very um

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positive toward the book

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and what the book

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represented and you know

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you read like how it made

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people feel and like

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because it it's do you take

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it seriously it's kind of an out there

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You know, but it touches on some, like,

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especially when his book

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was written in the seventies,

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the Illuminati and stuff like that,

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the occults,

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those were huge in during that timeframe.

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So for somebody to just drop,

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not just a book,

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but a whole trilogy of

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books about that was

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probably for the people in

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that the seventies and

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early eighties was probably

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mind blowing that like, oh, wait,

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wait a minute.

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What is this?

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is this stuff real?

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You know, I can imagine, you know,

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like people are approaching

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you now and going, Hey,

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you're the guy that writes

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the comic book.

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How that like,

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like how it made them feel

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back then with like, wait,

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this is real to some people still.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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And I think what really

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helps its reputation is it

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refuses to take itself

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seriously in any aggressive way.

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There is nothing that you

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are being asked to believe.

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In fact,

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you are being encouraged to believe less.

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You're encouraged to be more flexible,

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not less.

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We want your world to get bigger,

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not smaller.

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It's definitely an open-minded book.

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yeah yeah it's it's it's

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like a extended exercise in

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what if without any

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definitive conclusion to

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box you in on to say now

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you gotta think this or now

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you gotta think that it's

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just it's adding

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ingredients to your stew

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you know like things you

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can pick and choose and uh

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reject or accept and um

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yeah and it's kind of

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interesting too because in some ways so

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One of the reasons why I

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think it's more

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recognizable now than it

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was back then is because

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the Illuminati has become

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this household term,

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which wasn't even true when

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I first read it.

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Twenty years ago,

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it was not really a thing

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that like if you show any

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twelve year old a triangle

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with a dot in it,

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they're going to say

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Illuminati confirmed.

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They know what that means.

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their rappers and other

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people have kind of made

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this thing out of it and

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put it out there and made

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it this mainstream thing,

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whether it exists or not.

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It's out there and it's made

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itself mainstream once again.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And there's a lot of

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evidence to suggest that

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the reason why it is

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ubiquitous right now traces

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back to the publication of

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this book in an indirect way.

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So it wasn't that everybody

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read it and started talking

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about the Illuminati.

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So there's a way in which

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not only is the book about conspiracies,

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but it actually contains

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one within itself that has

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grown more interesting as

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time has gone on.

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And so there's this guy, Cary Thornley.

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So Cary Thornley was friends

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with Robert Anton Wilson.

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They bonded over...

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like working in the

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underground press and they

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were both

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anti-authoritarian and all that

00:11:29.847 --> 00:11:30.928
sort of like good,

00:11:31.188 --> 00:11:33.110
nineteen sixties rebellious

00:11:33.370 --> 00:11:34.850
young people kind of stuff.

00:11:35.432 --> 00:11:37.052
But Kerry Thornley had an

00:11:37.173 --> 00:11:38.854
interesting backstory in

00:11:38.894 --> 00:11:40.595
that he was friends with

00:11:40.674 --> 00:11:42.716
Lee Harvey Oswald back when

00:11:42.755 --> 00:11:43.557
they were in the Marines.

00:11:44.476 --> 00:11:44.917
Wow.

00:11:45.116 --> 00:11:48.058
And so Lee Harvey Oswald was

00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:50.980
a peculiar fella even back then,

00:11:51.461 --> 00:11:53.903
enough so that Lee Harvey,

00:11:54.003 --> 00:11:57.404
that Cary Thornley wrote a book about him,

00:11:58.284 --> 00:12:00.326
like a novel based on him

00:12:00.647 --> 00:12:02.107
as a personality.

00:12:04.413 --> 00:12:05.955
So when years later,

00:12:07.135 --> 00:12:08.716
he hears on the radio that

00:12:08.817 --> 00:12:11.519
Lee Harvey Oswald has shot the president,

00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:13.041
he's freaked out because

00:12:13.081 --> 00:12:14.302
it's essentially the main

00:12:14.342 --> 00:12:15.464
character from the novel

00:12:15.504 --> 00:12:17.345
he's writing has left off

00:12:17.404 --> 00:12:19.326
the page and shot the president,

00:12:19.746 --> 00:12:22.730
which is kind of a trippy thing.

00:12:23.831 --> 00:12:25.131
So he's kind of- That's a

00:12:25.192 --> 00:12:26.192
pass entry up right there.

00:12:26.212 --> 00:12:26.293
Yeah.

00:12:26.313 --> 00:12:26.734
Yeah.

00:12:26.933 --> 00:12:27.333
Yeah.

00:12:28.534 --> 00:12:31.796
And he also had, along with this other guy,

00:12:31.855 --> 00:12:32.797
Gregory Hill,

00:12:33.157 --> 00:12:35.498
they founded a religion

00:12:35.538 --> 00:12:37.499
called Discordianism based

00:12:37.538 --> 00:12:40.220
around the worship of Ares,

00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:41.461
the goddess of chaos.

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:42.801
So here's this guy.

00:12:42.841 --> 00:12:44.341
He invents a religion.

00:12:45.322 --> 00:12:46.842
It's like either a joke

00:12:46.863 --> 00:12:48.323
disguised as a religion or

00:12:48.923 --> 00:12:50.625
a religion disguised as a joke.

00:12:50.644 --> 00:12:51.865
It's like Judaism.

00:12:52.664 --> 00:12:55.206
yeah yeah yeah so carrie

00:12:55.225 --> 00:12:56.385
thornley ends up getting

00:12:56.446 --> 00:12:58.807
involved in the

00:12:59.267 --> 00:13:00.807
investigation into lee

00:13:00.827 --> 00:13:02.768
harvey oswald to the point

00:13:02.889 --> 00:13:06.409
that when um uh the

00:13:06.529 --> 00:13:07.730
investigation kicks up

00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:09.311
again in new orleans he

00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:11.552
gets drug into it as a

00:13:11.611 --> 00:13:14.131
potential co-conspirator in

00:13:14.172 --> 00:13:15.212
the assassination

00:13:16.173 --> 00:13:19.875
And so when Jim Garrison

00:13:20.216 --> 00:13:23.918
charges him with perjury

00:13:24.259 --> 00:13:26.399
for lying and saying that

00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.662
he hadn't reconnected with

00:13:28.682 --> 00:13:30.263
Lee Harvey Oswald right

00:13:30.283 --> 00:13:31.524
before the assassination,

00:13:31.884 --> 00:13:33.424
which so far as Kerry Thornley knows,

00:13:33.666 --> 00:13:34.405
he did not.

00:13:34.946 --> 00:13:37.488
So now he's like literally.

00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.402
in trouble with the law

00:13:40.782 --> 00:13:42.043
because they think he was

00:13:42.123 --> 00:13:44.365
involved in it so so and

00:13:44.385 --> 00:13:45.126
then here's where it

00:13:45.147 --> 00:13:47.668
connects to illuminatus so

00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:49.150
carrie thornley finds out

00:13:49.191 --> 00:13:50.192
that one of the guys on

00:13:50.272 --> 00:13:52.214
garrison's investigation

00:13:52.494 --> 00:13:54.777
unit believes in the illuminati

00:13:56.160 --> 00:13:57.422
And so what he wants to do

00:13:58.081 --> 00:14:00.283
is he wants to basically,

00:14:00.403 --> 00:14:01.504
in modern parlance,

00:14:01.684 --> 00:14:04.307
troll Garrison by flooding

00:14:04.346 --> 00:14:05.648
the underground press with

00:14:05.687 --> 00:14:07.889
stories about the Illuminati to be like,

00:14:08.309 --> 00:14:09.931
your investigation lacks

00:14:10.030 --> 00:14:12.032
rigor to such a degree that

00:14:12.052 --> 00:14:12.893
you have people on there

00:14:12.913 --> 00:14:14.274
that believe in leprechauns

00:14:14.313 --> 00:14:16.735
and crazy things like the Illuminati.

00:14:17.296 --> 00:14:18.177
so they flood the

00:14:18.216 --> 00:14:19.236
underground press with

00:14:19.577 --> 00:14:20.158
stories about the

00:14:20.177 --> 00:14:23.399
illuminati so there's so in

00:14:23.419 --> 00:14:25.461
the in the sixties there's

00:14:25.581 --> 00:14:26.783
all these stories that come

00:14:26.863 --> 00:14:27.883
out about the illuminati

00:14:27.903 --> 00:14:29.144
which then seeds the

00:14:29.183 --> 00:14:31.686
culture with the idea which

00:14:31.725 --> 00:14:33.567
then it starts growing

00:14:33.986 --> 00:14:35.288
because people are reading

00:14:35.307 --> 00:14:36.089
this and they don't know

00:14:36.129 --> 00:14:39.291
that it's a joke and so one

00:14:39.350 --> 00:14:40.871
of the it's one of those

00:14:40.971 --> 00:14:41.832
weird things though

00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:44.620
The Illuminati supposedly

00:14:44.640 --> 00:14:45.682
has been around since the

00:14:45.743 --> 00:14:47.423
Egyptians made the pyramids.

00:14:47.443 --> 00:14:51.168
No, yeah, there is a historic basis, yeah.

00:14:51.307 --> 00:14:53.029
Yeah,

00:14:53.049 --> 00:14:54.350
but when you mix in a little bit of

00:14:55.511 --> 00:14:56.173
seeds in it,

00:14:57.094 --> 00:14:59.475
it tends to take its own way

00:14:59.535 --> 00:15:01.879
of growing and infiltrate

00:15:01.958 --> 00:15:03.059
mainstream culture.

00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:04.429
Correct.

00:15:04.470 --> 00:15:06.892
So it took on a life of its own.

00:15:07.712 --> 00:15:09.173
But one of the main places

00:15:09.234 --> 00:15:12.275
that the seeds were planted

00:15:12.316 --> 00:15:13.836
were Robert Anton Wilson

00:15:13.857 --> 00:15:15.259
and Robert Shea were

00:15:15.359 --> 00:15:16.960
editors of the Playboy Forum.

00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.602
And so they planted in

00:15:20.643 --> 00:15:24.245
Playboy a fake letter from

00:15:24.306 --> 00:15:26.226
someone asking about the Illuminati,

00:15:26.447 --> 00:15:28.269
which was one of the higher profile,

00:15:28.428 --> 00:15:29.469
more high profile

00:15:30.951 --> 00:15:32.392
spreadings of this idea.

00:15:35.150 --> 00:15:35.951
They were getting a lot of

00:15:35.990 --> 00:15:37.131
weird letters anyway,

00:15:37.552 --> 00:15:39.513
and it became tough to tell.

00:15:39.932 --> 00:15:42.232
So the thing where they were

00:15:43.033 --> 00:15:44.894
spreading the idea about the Illuminati,

00:15:44.933 --> 00:15:45.794
it was part of this thing

00:15:45.815 --> 00:15:47.235
called Operation Mindfuck.

00:15:47.754 --> 00:15:50.475
And so it got to the point

00:15:50.515 --> 00:15:52.476
where they were getting all these letters,

00:15:52.557 --> 00:15:54.577
and they couldn't tell which were...

00:15:56.201 --> 00:15:58.102
things from Operation

00:15:58.143 --> 00:15:59.364
Mindfuck and which were

00:15:59.423 --> 00:16:00.845
just people expressing

00:16:01.186 --> 00:16:02.547
their actual ideas.

00:16:03.107 --> 00:16:05.330
And so the idea for Illuminatus was,

00:16:05.669 --> 00:16:06.751
what if we just took all

00:16:06.792 --> 00:16:08.033
these weird ideas and

00:16:08.092 --> 00:16:10.115
paranoid letters we're

00:16:10.134 --> 00:16:12.336
getting and just decided

00:16:12.356 --> 00:16:13.458
that they were all true?

00:16:14.219 --> 00:16:17.602
And wrote a mythology around

00:16:17.763 --> 00:16:20.245
this idea of Discordians

00:16:20.326 --> 00:16:22.207
versus the Illuminati.

00:16:22.668 --> 00:16:24.730
And that was the entry point

00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:27.212
for the trilogy.

00:16:27.734 --> 00:16:29.475
And it just kind of has

00:16:30.317 --> 00:16:31.317
snowballed from there.

00:16:32.753 --> 00:16:33.894
no it's it's really quick

00:16:33.933 --> 00:16:36.336
it's I even me myself like

00:16:36.456 --> 00:16:37.275
my next trip to the

00:16:37.336 --> 00:16:38.596
bookstore I'm going to be

00:16:38.677 --> 00:16:40.337
looking for this just

00:16:40.357 --> 00:16:41.519
because I really want to

00:16:41.558 --> 00:16:42.479
dive into it because a lot

00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:43.419
of the stuff you just

00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:44.620
mentioned this stuff as I

00:16:44.640 --> 00:16:46.761
was doing my research was

00:16:46.802 --> 00:16:47.962
stains that were kept

00:16:48.003 --> 00:16:50.024
popping up into it and I'm

00:16:50.063 --> 00:16:51.605
like man this these guys

00:16:51.664 --> 00:16:53.166
live this crazy life they

00:16:53.225 --> 00:16:55.307
worked on playboy that back

00:16:55.326 --> 00:16:56.447
in the glory days of

00:16:56.488 --> 00:16:57.488
playboy before it became

00:16:57.508 --> 00:16:59.889
what it is today which is just the online

00:17:00.615 --> 00:17:01.775
you know, things.

00:17:01.796 --> 00:17:01.936
Yeah,

00:17:01.975 --> 00:17:03.837
back then it was actually like a

00:17:03.878 --> 00:17:05.618
cultural thing that men

00:17:05.699 --> 00:17:08.480
read and it was this thing.

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:09.122
It was more,

00:17:09.321 --> 00:17:10.962
it was really just about the

00:17:11.063 --> 00:17:14.086
articles in it and not just the girls.

00:17:14.105 --> 00:17:14.665
Right.

00:17:14.865 --> 00:17:16.387
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:16.587 --> 00:17:18.829
It, the stuff that they were producing,

00:17:19.089 --> 00:17:20.250
men were reading and really

00:17:20.310 --> 00:17:22.772
taking that to heart and to

00:17:22.813 --> 00:17:24.334
mind and going, hey,

00:17:24.374 --> 00:17:25.454
this shit's for reals.

00:17:25.954 --> 00:17:27.497
You know, people was talking about it.

00:17:27.576 --> 00:17:29.038
It has to be real.

00:17:29.097 --> 00:17:29.198
Yeah.

00:17:29.951 --> 00:17:31.112
Right, right.

00:17:31.192 --> 00:17:32.432
But in a little bit,

00:17:32.873 --> 00:17:35.034
they were using that to

00:17:35.134 --> 00:17:37.476
kind of play a prank on the culture.

00:17:37.915 --> 00:17:39.277
So one of Robert Anton

00:17:39.317 --> 00:17:42.479
Wilson's favorite tricks is to take

00:17:44.292 --> 00:17:46.316
one scoop of truth and one

00:17:46.375 --> 00:17:49.019
scoop of fantasy and blend

00:17:49.058 --> 00:17:50.902
it together such that you

00:17:51.001 --> 00:17:52.604
can't tell them apart

00:17:53.105 --> 00:17:54.707
because when that happens,

00:17:54.926 --> 00:17:55.988
so his theory was,

00:17:56.288 --> 00:17:58.050
you had to start thinking for yourself.

00:17:58.332 --> 00:18:00.413
You had to start making discernments

00:18:01.075 --> 00:18:03.576
that weren't just given to you.

00:18:04.556 --> 00:18:07.096
It was up to you to then

00:18:07.656 --> 00:18:09.297
figure out what was going on.

00:18:09.696 --> 00:18:12.478
And it kind of disrupted that.

00:18:13.157 --> 00:18:14.577
We tend to automatically

00:18:14.678 --> 00:18:16.179
believe things that come

00:18:16.239 --> 00:18:19.098
from sources that make us comfortable.

00:18:19.778 --> 00:18:21.240
And that sometimes makes us

00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:24.560
vulnerable in ways that is hard to see.

00:18:24.601 --> 00:18:25.740
It's easy to see when it's

00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:27.000
happening to someone else.

00:18:27.441 --> 00:18:28.721
It's much harder to see when

00:18:28.741 --> 00:18:29.801
it's happening to us.

00:18:30.382 --> 00:18:30.962
You know what I mean?

00:18:31.002 --> 00:18:32.804
You can tell when someone's like, come on,

00:18:32.824 --> 00:18:33.664
that's propaganda.

00:18:34.045 --> 00:18:34.865
That's not true.

00:18:34.986 --> 00:18:35.886
You just believe that

00:18:35.906 --> 00:18:36.826
because of this or the other.

00:18:37.347 --> 00:18:38.648
But I know for a fact I've

00:18:38.729 --> 00:18:40.730
caught myself exhibiting

00:18:40.770 --> 00:18:41.912
those same behaviors.

00:18:41.951 --> 00:18:43.313
But it's much tougher to

00:18:43.373 --> 00:18:45.153
tell when it's happening to you.

00:18:45.273 --> 00:18:46.756
And this was meant to be

00:18:46.796 --> 00:18:47.957
something that encouraged

00:18:48.297 --> 00:18:48.817
that kind of

00:18:48.916 --> 00:18:50.419
self-reflection and that kind

00:18:50.459 --> 00:18:52.339
of self-awareness and that

00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:54.261
kind of flexibility.

00:18:54.301 --> 00:18:56.042
And one of the thesis

00:18:56.083 --> 00:18:57.765
statements of the novel is,

00:18:58.285 --> 00:19:00.226
um that communication can

00:19:00.405 --> 00:19:02.406
only occur between equals

00:19:03.167 --> 00:19:05.489
and so if you're kind of

00:19:05.548 --> 00:19:06.910
like well everyone else is

00:19:06.930 --> 00:19:09.151
kind of low information

00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:11.673
this or that or and like

00:19:11.692 --> 00:19:14.114
but the more um you can

00:19:14.173 --> 00:19:16.996
come to a conversation as

00:19:17.175 --> 00:19:18.516
equals the more you can

00:19:18.576 --> 00:19:20.196
honestly exchange and then

00:19:20.217 --> 00:19:21.298
the other thing is like the

00:19:21.357 --> 00:19:23.558
other caveat to that uh

00:19:23.638 --> 00:19:26.080
principle is everyone lies to their boss

00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:27.961
because they don't want to get in trouble.

00:19:28.363 --> 00:19:30.263
And so when you look at the

00:19:30.305 --> 00:19:31.224
top of the pyramid,

00:19:31.265 --> 00:19:32.807
like whoever's in charge of

00:19:32.826 --> 00:19:34.548
whatever organization you're a part of,

00:19:34.788 --> 00:19:35.348
they don't know what the

00:19:35.368 --> 00:19:36.250
fuck's going on because no

00:19:36.269 --> 00:19:36.830
one will tell them the

00:19:36.851 --> 00:19:38.132
truth because it's just

00:19:38.211 --> 00:19:39.733
lies all the way up the chain.

00:19:39.753 --> 00:19:43.497
Yeah, exactly.

00:19:44.077 --> 00:19:45.159
And some version of it that

00:19:45.179 --> 00:19:46.519
doesn't get me in trouble is,

00:19:46.539 --> 00:19:47.560
you know what I mean?

00:19:47.580 --> 00:19:48.261
Exactly.

00:19:48.682 --> 00:19:50.183
That's a universal principle

00:19:50.224 --> 00:19:51.546
that everyone adheres by.

00:19:51.987 --> 00:19:54.990
And so your boss only has a

00:19:55.791 --> 00:19:58.095
very narrow idea of what

00:19:58.194 --> 00:19:59.056
actually happened.

00:19:59.355 --> 00:20:00.778
And his boss only knows a

00:20:00.837 --> 00:20:01.960
fraction and so on.

00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:04.923
So that's one of the snafus

00:20:04.943 --> 00:20:05.565
we're dealing with.

00:20:06.403 --> 00:20:08.285
no but it is great it's one

00:20:08.305 --> 00:20:12.407
of those where I mean I'm

00:20:12.428 --> 00:20:13.028
saying as I was reading

00:20:13.048 --> 00:20:14.229
through the first one and I

00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:16.391
I dove into the you know

00:20:16.451 --> 00:20:17.491
the first few pages of the

00:20:17.531 --> 00:20:18.893
book to try to get my mind

00:20:18.913 --> 00:20:20.815
wrapped around it which I I

00:20:20.835 --> 00:20:21.694
really don't think I got my

00:20:21.734 --> 00:20:22.635
mind wrapped around I don't

00:20:22.655 --> 00:20:24.237
think you really can wrap

00:20:24.317 --> 00:20:26.838
your mind around everything

00:20:27.019 --> 00:20:28.200
that's going on really

00:20:28.421 --> 00:20:30.261
within this these books and

00:20:30.281 --> 00:20:33.525
this story because it does kind of start

00:20:34.433 --> 00:20:36.214
like there's a talking dolphin in there,

00:20:36.234 --> 00:20:36.535
you know,

00:20:36.634 --> 00:20:38.296
as you walk through the initial

00:20:38.316 --> 00:20:40.156
pages of the volume first issue,

00:20:40.797 --> 00:20:41.856
like there's a talking dolphin,

00:20:41.876 --> 00:20:42.498
there's a lot of weird

00:20:42.557 --> 00:20:43.857
things going on before you

00:20:43.877 --> 00:20:47.099
get to the actual story.

00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.201
So let me ask you this.

00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:52.321
What's it been like trying

00:20:52.342 --> 00:20:55.864
to take this book with all

00:20:55.903 --> 00:20:57.403
this intricacies and

00:20:57.423 --> 00:20:59.224
there's a lot and make that

00:20:59.285 --> 00:21:00.885
into a comic book that is

00:21:01.977 --> 00:21:04.542
That make some kind of sense.

00:21:05.243 --> 00:21:06.586
Especially the beginning of it.

00:21:06.626 --> 00:21:07.709
Where you're kind of like.

00:21:07.808 --> 00:21:09.874
What in the hell is going on in this book?

00:21:10.891 --> 00:21:14.593
Yeah, so it was in its conception stage,

00:21:14.692 --> 00:21:15.653
it was very tough.

00:21:15.692 --> 00:21:17.114
And there was a lot of false

00:21:17.134 --> 00:21:20.174
starts and a lot of like

00:21:20.414 --> 00:21:23.256
wrong approaches that were abandoned.

00:21:23.915 --> 00:21:24.957
And it ended up,

00:21:25.537 --> 00:21:28.198
the answer was so super simple.

00:21:28.258 --> 00:21:30.318
So there was a couple of

00:21:30.338 --> 00:21:31.159
problems to deal with.

00:21:31.219 --> 00:21:33.460
The first is the book takes

00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:36.760
place on a unspecified date,

00:21:36.961 --> 00:21:38.622
but that is clearly in the

00:21:38.721 --> 00:21:40.182
mid to late seventies.

00:21:42.104 --> 00:21:43.305
So there's a lot of

00:21:43.325 --> 00:21:45.266
temptation to modernize it,

00:21:45.747 --> 00:21:48.607
because you want it to feel

00:21:48.647 --> 00:21:50.769
like it's about what's going on right now,

00:21:50.829 --> 00:21:51.891
and you want it to be current.

00:21:52.810 --> 00:21:54.913
So there was a few ideas

00:21:54.952 --> 00:21:57.855
about adapting it so it

00:21:57.875 --> 00:21:59.476
takes place in current times.

00:22:00.036 --> 00:22:02.417
But like a lightning bolt, I realized, no,

00:22:02.458 --> 00:22:03.439
it's a period piece.

00:22:03.858 --> 00:22:06.300
And once I got that idea

00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:07.641
that it was a period piece,

00:22:08.701 --> 00:22:10.282
So many complications just

00:22:10.343 --> 00:22:12.743
dropped away and so many

00:22:13.763 --> 00:22:16.005
opportunities popped up

00:22:16.045 --> 00:22:17.165
because I realized every

00:22:17.266 --> 00:22:21.366
single like mundane scene

00:22:21.446 --> 00:22:22.988
setting element becomes

00:22:23.127 --> 00:22:24.909
interesting when it's set

00:22:25.169 --> 00:22:26.529
in nineteen seventy six

00:22:26.869 --> 00:22:28.289
because you get you get to

00:22:28.309 --> 00:22:29.191
draw a phone booth.

00:22:29.250 --> 00:22:30.851
So you get to draw, you know,

00:22:31.131 --> 00:22:32.051
you get to draw.

00:22:32.092 --> 00:22:34.452
I'm going to bring that up.

00:22:35.573 --> 00:22:36.733
um you get to draw record

00:22:36.773 --> 00:22:38.253
players you get to draw

00:22:38.413 --> 00:22:39.875
like the clothes you get to

00:22:39.894 --> 00:22:41.276
draw the cars you get to

00:22:41.296 --> 00:22:43.596
draw like just it it just

00:22:43.757 --> 00:22:45.657
unlocked this visual

00:22:45.698 --> 00:22:47.159
component to it that I was

00:22:47.179 --> 00:22:48.519
like oh it's jackie brown

00:22:48.878 --> 00:22:49.599
you know what I mean like

00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:51.240
it's it's the the time

00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:54.182
period right exactly and so

00:22:54.622 --> 00:22:55.542
you you kind of get to

00:22:55.583 --> 00:22:57.502
cheat because every little

00:22:57.542 --> 00:22:59.104
thing if you just focus on

00:22:59.163 --> 00:23:00.224
a background element

00:23:00.845 --> 00:23:02.326
becomes visually interesting

00:23:02.625 --> 00:23:03.807
which is something you know

00:23:03.826 --> 00:23:04.507
because when you're going

00:23:04.527 --> 00:23:06.407
from a book into a comic

00:23:06.448 --> 00:23:08.388
book a book might have

00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:10.711
fifteen pages that's just a

00:23:10.730 --> 00:23:11.931
guy thinking or just two

00:23:11.951 --> 00:23:13.192
people talking which

00:23:13.231 --> 00:23:14.353
doesn't really work in a

00:23:14.413 --> 00:23:16.394
comic so every little

00:23:16.534 --> 00:23:17.733
anchor that you can get to

00:23:17.773 --> 00:23:20.236
make it uh more interesting

00:23:20.615 --> 00:23:21.936
helps so the period piece

00:23:21.977 --> 00:23:23.837
thing was one key that unlocked it

00:23:24.337 --> 00:23:28.460
And then the other one was the idea that,

00:23:28.859 --> 00:23:31.182
so I tried to, at first,

00:23:31.821 --> 00:23:33.282
get a comprehensive

00:23:33.403 --> 00:23:36.365
understanding of the book and the world,

00:23:37.105 --> 00:23:38.286
but I quickly realized that

00:23:38.326 --> 00:23:39.346
that was impossible.

00:23:39.685 --> 00:23:41.227
And that I can-

00:23:43.949 --> 00:23:44.650
Right.

00:23:45.490 --> 00:23:46.211
For sure.

00:23:46.431 --> 00:23:48.373
And I have access to people

00:23:48.413 --> 00:23:50.795
who are actual scholars of this material,

00:23:51.174 --> 00:23:52.016
and sometimes I'll write

00:23:52.036 --> 00:23:53.396
them and ask them a question,

00:23:53.916 --> 00:23:56.318
and the answer by and large is,

00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:57.180
I don't know.

00:23:57.299 --> 00:23:58.441
That is not yet known.

00:23:59.061 --> 00:23:59.682
Because one of the

00:23:59.761 --> 00:24:01.663
influences on this was

00:24:02.444 --> 00:24:03.705
James Joyce's Finnegan's

00:24:03.746 --> 00:24:04.987
Wake and Ulysses.

00:24:05.467 --> 00:24:06.768
Which is the whole point is

00:24:06.807 --> 00:24:08.970
to make it so packed with

00:24:09.029 --> 00:24:10.852
detail that it's inexhaustible.

00:24:11.251 --> 00:24:12.973
So if the point of the thing

00:24:13.013 --> 00:24:15.135
is to be inexhaustible,

00:24:15.455 --> 00:24:16.436
I'm not going to be able to

00:24:16.497 --> 00:24:19.199
have a God's eye view of it

00:24:19.239 --> 00:24:21.761
that I can then impart upon the audience.

00:24:22.061 --> 00:24:23.262
So if that's not possible,

00:24:23.864 --> 00:24:26.086
I cast myself in the role

00:24:26.205 --> 00:24:27.106
of one of the two

00:24:27.146 --> 00:24:28.428
detectives that are the

00:24:28.468 --> 00:24:30.390
main characters in the story.

00:24:31.009 --> 00:24:34.311
So I'm not a third-person

00:24:34.432 --> 00:24:35.532
omniscient narrator.

00:24:35.893 --> 00:24:38.094
I'm a detective on the case.

00:24:38.114 --> 00:24:40.194
Yeah.

00:24:40.214 --> 00:24:40.796
So you know what I mean?

00:24:40.915 --> 00:24:42.217
And then the book then

00:24:42.257 --> 00:24:44.938
becomes an invitation to

00:24:45.117 --> 00:24:48.420
the mystery as opposed to a

00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:50.141
dictation of the mystery.

00:24:50.582 --> 00:24:51.442
So the reader is being

00:24:51.501 --> 00:24:55.744
invited in as opposed to –

00:24:54.723 --> 00:24:55.704
it's not didactic.

00:24:55.825 --> 00:24:57.385
It's not being explained to you.

00:24:57.705 --> 00:24:59.406
You're brought into the adventure.

00:24:59.426 --> 00:24:59.567
Right.

00:25:01.386 --> 00:25:02.868
That's what I liked when I

00:25:02.929 --> 00:25:05.832
read issue one is once you

00:25:05.872 --> 00:25:07.253
got past those first

00:25:09.936 --> 00:25:14.402
mind-tricking pages and you

00:25:14.461 --> 00:25:15.884
meet the detectives working

00:25:15.903 --> 00:25:17.625
the case that's taking place,

00:25:18.727 --> 00:25:20.348
it was really like you felt

00:25:20.368 --> 00:25:21.130
like you were being...

00:25:22.691 --> 00:25:24.471
brought into this story with

00:25:24.511 --> 00:25:25.731
these detectives and you

00:25:25.751 --> 00:25:26.592
were feeling what they were

00:25:26.612 --> 00:25:27.272
feeling because I mean the

00:25:27.313 --> 00:25:28.692
guy's calling his wife and

00:25:28.712 --> 00:25:29.673
he's like hey I'm not going

00:25:29.693 --> 00:25:30.453
to make it home we're

00:25:30.473 --> 00:25:32.294
working this case like oh

00:25:32.334 --> 00:25:33.115
damn I've been there from

00:25:33.154 --> 00:25:34.255
being in the office all day

00:25:34.295 --> 00:25:36.276
so right exactly how he's feeling

00:25:38.665 --> 00:25:39.646
And there's a part where

00:25:41.468 --> 00:25:43.789
they're going through these memos.

00:25:44.810 --> 00:25:47.311
So there's been a bombing at a magazine.

00:25:48.032 --> 00:25:51.115
They find the magazine,

00:25:51.194 --> 00:25:52.276
their current issue that

00:25:52.296 --> 00:25:53.176
they were working on.

00:25:53.977 --> 00:25:55.397
and so I just give the

00:25:55.438 --> 00:25:56.518
documents over to the

00:25:56.557 --> 00:25:58.519
reader and and they can

00:25:58.939 --> 00:25:59.720
they're they're the

00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:00.819
detective you're on the

00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:02.881
case you're on the job um

00:26:03.080 --> 00:26:04.821
so as as opposed to it

00:26:04.862 --> 00:26:07.222
being a mystery um in a

00:26:07.262 --> 00:26:09.003
traditional sense it's

00:26:09.584 --> 00:26:10.845
you're you're the detective

00:26:11.184 --> 00:26:12.526
you've been given there you

00:26:12.625 --> 00:26:13.026
you're in there

00:26:13.125 --> 00:26:14.547
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:26:15.268 --> 00:26:16.449
And one of the things that I

00:26:16.469 --> 00:26:17.890
have found very interesting

00:26:18.109 --> 00:26:22.733
is how much of current

00:26:22.854 --> 00:26:25.976
events obviously link back

00:26:26.016 --> 00:26:27.777
to that time period anyway.

00:26:28.258 --> 00:26:30.118
So there's no effort to make

00:26:30.138 --> 00:26:31.881
it about right now because

00:26:31.921 --> 00:26:32.901
it is about right now

00:26:32.961 --> 00:26:35.544
because the present is about the past.

00:26:35.584 --> 00:26:38.065
The past comes forward into the future.

00:26:38.105 --> 00:26:39.567
So if you want to chase down

00:26:39.606 --> 00:26:40.688
what we're living right now,

00:26:41.327 --> 00:26:42.888
The seeds are in the past,

00:26:43.048 --> 00:26:45.509
and that's where we're at.

00:26:45.569 --> 00:26:46.849
So, yeah,

00:26:46.890 --> 00:26:48.230
it didn't take any effort to make

00:26:48.250 --> 00:26:49.651
it about now because that's

00:26:49.671 --> 00:26:50.750
just how history works.

00:26:52.692 --> 00:26:53.652
It's funny you bring that up

00:26:53.672 --> 00:26:56.173
because as I'm reading that first volume,

00:26:56.413 --> 00:26:58.913
I was just like, damn,

00:26:59.253 --> 00:27:00.835
I thought this was about this book.

00:27:01.634 --> 00:27:01.855
I'm like,

00:27:01.894 --> 00:27:02.695
this feels like it could have

00:27:02.715 --> 00:27:03.516
happened yesterday.

00:27:04.304 --> 00:27:05.183
Yeah, for sure.

00:27:05.544 --> 00:27:06.585
And that was the impression

00:27:06.625 --> 00:27:07.525
I get rereading it.

00:27:07.984 --> 00:27:08.345
Yeah.

00:27:09.445 --> 00:27:10.105
And you're like, oh,

00:27:10.945 --> 00:27:12.626
there's kind of always been this tension.

00:27:12.646 --> 00:27:14.387
There's always been these divides.

00:27:15.008 --> 00:27:15.928
There's always been this

00:27:16.087 --> 00:27:18.249
sense that we're at the

00:27:18.348 --> 00:27:20.230
cutting edge of incredible

00:27:20.269 --> 00:27:21.670
times because that's what

00:27:21.690 --> 00:27:22.930
it's like to be in the present.

00:27:23.230 --> 00:27:24.631
To be in the present is to

00:27:24.671 --> 00:27:26.731
be amongst cutting edge

00:27:27.412 --> 00:27:28.873
apocalyptic times because

00:27:28.913 --> 00:27:29.894
it's the present because we

00:27:29.913 --> 00:27:30.513
don't know what's going to

00:27:30.534 --> 00:27:32.015
happen next they felt the

00:27:32.035 --> 00:27:33.736
same way back then and so

00:27:33.816 --> 00:27:34.916
you kind of get this

00:27:35.537 --> 00:27:37.798
resonance from a time

00:27:38.138 --> 00:27:40.461
another extreme time when

00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:41.820
people were feeling really

00:27:41.882 --> 00:27:43.603
really uncertain and felt

00:27:43.623 --> 00:27:44.782
like they were in

00:27:45.263 --> 00:27:48.185
unprecedented times and um

00:27:48.226 --> 00:27:49.527
so yeah there's a lot of

00:27:50.346 --> 00:27:51.228
just like there's a little

00:27:51.248 --> 00:27:53.009
bit of reassurance too to

00:27:53.028 --> 00:27:54.289
be like oh they were super

00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:55.789
worried back then too you

00:27:55.810 --> 00:28:00.113
know like and maybe we'll

00:28:00.153 --> 00:28:03.615
pull through and move on to

00:28:04.415 --> 00:28:05.936
stabler times just as it

00:28:05.977 --> 00:28:07.698
happened again and again

00:28:07.738 --> 00:28:09.118
and again it always happens

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:12.201
it's crazy how it works

00:28:12.260 --> 00:28:13.561
like that and how something

00:28:13.582 --> 00:28:17.223
that was written shit now like

00:28:18.984 --> 00:28:20.386
written in the late seventies, wasn't it?

00:28:21.047 --> 00:28:21.788
So it was actually written

00:28:21.807 --> 00:28:23.169
in the late sixties and it

00:28:23.189 --> 00:28:24.170
took them forever to get

00:28:24.211 --> 00:28:25.131
someone to publish it.

00:28:25.172 --> 00:28:26.692
So yeah, it,

00:28:26.712 --> 00:28:27.933
I think it was sat on for

00:28:27.953 --> 00:28:29.435
about six or seven years

00:28:29.476 --> 00:28:31.498
before it made it out the gate.

00:28:31.557 --> 00:28:33.579
So which must've been like

00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:35.642
crazy for them to cause you'd be like,

00:28:35.662 --> 00:28:36.702
if I, something I wrote,

00:28:37.443 --> 00:28:38.565
six years it sat on the

00:28:38.585 --> 00:28:39.625
shelf you'd be so worried

00:28:39.645 --> 00:28:41.468
that it wouldn't resonate

00:28:41.508 --> 00:28:43.450
anymore but now here it is

00:28:43.509 --> 00:28:44.770
time you know what are you

00:28:44.791 --> 00:28:45.813
doing in the meantime like

00:28:46.232 --> 00:28:47.354
I I just put poured my

00:28:47.394 --> 00:28:48.434
heart and soul into this

00:28:48.855 --> 00:28:50.978
this piece and it's just

00:28:50.998 --> 00:28:51.538
sitting over here

00:28:51.577 --> 00:28:52.659
collecting dust waiting for

00:28:52.699 --> 00:28:54.361
somebody I mean I mean I

00:28:54.381 --> 00:28:55.342
guess it's kind of like how

00:28:55.422 --> 00:28:56.482
jk rowland felt when she

00:28:56.522 --> 00:28:57.984
wrote the first harry

00:28:58.005 --> 00:28:59.086
potter and stuff like that

00:28:59.105 --> 00:28:59.906
where it just kind of sure

00:29:00.847 --> 00:29:01.729
Just sitting there.

00:29:01.749 --> 00:29:02.808
Yeah, sitting on a shelf.

00:29:03.009 --> 00:29:04.609
It's just sitting on the

00:29:04.631 --> 00:29:06.090
shelf because nobody will pick it up.

00:29:06.471 --> 00:29:08.853
Because women don't write, you know?

00:29:09.453 --> 00:29:10.875
Right, yeah, yeah.

00:29:10.934 --> 00:29:12.134
Only this one was very different.

00:29:12.174 --> 00:29:16.798
This was a very... So let me ask,

00:29:17.118 --> 00:29:18.519
is this your first comic book?

00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:20.800
Is this your first... No, no.

00:29:21.121 --> 00:29:21.882
That you're into it?

00:29:22.830 --> 00:29:24.551
no I've been making uh indie

00:29:24.571 --> 00:29:25.553
comics for about twenty

00:29:25.593 --> 00:29:27.954
years now um so I yeah now

00:29:27.974 --> 00:29:29.336
this I like all told this

00:29:29.355 --> 00:29:30.436
is probably my thirtieth

00:29:30.636 --> 00:29:32.719
book um that I've done yeah

00:29:32.739 --> 00:29:34.079
about maybe depending on

00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:35.681
how you divide it more or

00:29:35.721 --> 00:29:37.481
less but uh yeah no I've

00:29:37.501 --> 00:29:38.583
been making comics a long

00:29:38.623 --> 00:29:42.306
long time um yeah I didn't

00:29:42.326 --> 00:29:44.788
know if like it's funny I

00:29:44.827 --> 00:29:46.509
put all this these brain

00:29:46.548 --> 00:29:48.671
cells into the book and the comic book

00:29:49.651 --> 00:29:50.830
And now I'm like, wait,

00:29:50.851 --> 00:29:51.832
you know what I didn't do

00:29:51.912 --> 00:29:53.112
is pour a lot of brains and

00:29:53.412 --> 00:29:55.112
cells and thoughts into, like,

00:29:56.093 --> 00:29:57.333
who is Bobby Campbell?

00:29:57.413 --> 00:29:58.893
So let's do that now.

00:29:58.913 --> 00:30:01.134
Who exactly is Bobby Campbell?

00:30:01.193 --> 00:30:03.555
Give us your background and how, like,

00:30:03.615 --> 00:30:04.734
you became like this,

00:30:05.174 --> 00:30:06.234
how you got into the comic

00:30:06.255 --> 00:30:07.756
book world to begin with.

00:30:08.375 --> 00:30:08.516
Sure.

00:30:08.536 --> 00:30:09.715
What led you to where you

00:30:09.796 --> 00:30:11.477
are right now and tell us

00:30:11.497 --> 00:30:12.336
about the Illuminatus.

00:30:13.772 --> 00:30:17.178
Yeah, so as far back as I can remember,

00:30:17.739 --> 00:30:20.201
I've been drawing and writing stories.

00:30:20.261 --> 00:30:21.544
So wherever that comes from,

00:30:21.884 --> 00:30:22.925
it's pre-memory.

00:30:23.226 --> 00:30:24.647
That was always there.

00:30:26.470 --> 00:30:27.632
I've been making comics.

00:30:28.792 --> 00:30:34.317
steadily since about, um, I, I started out,

00:30:34.397 --> 00:30:35.098
I made, uh,

00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.240
I did seven issues of a

00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:38.520
Spider-Man comic called

00:30:38.540 --> 00:30:40.663
Arachnophobia when I was, uh,

00:30:40.702 --> 00:30:42.064
thirteen and fourteen years old.

00:30:42.484 --> 00:30:42.664
And I,

00:30:42.724 --> 00:30:44.686
it just kind of never really stopped

00:30:44.767 --> 00:30:45.768
from there.

00:30:45.788 --> 00:30:46.188
Uh,

00:30:46.607 --> 00:30:49.109
I went to the Pratt Institute for a year,

00:30:49.770 --> 00:30:51.491
um, uh,

00:30:52.373 --> 00:30:53.634
fresh out of high school,

00:30:54.154 --> 00:30:56.278
but then kind of realized that it was far,

00:30:56.557 --> 00:30:59.221
far too expensive to keep going.

00:30:59.320 --> 00:30:59.540
I mean,

00:30:59.661 --> 00:31:01.462
even back then in nineteen ninety nine,

00:31:01.483 --> 00:31:02.744
it was thirty grand a year.

00:31:02.785 --> 00:31:04.247
So it's like that's

00:31:04.267 --> 00:31:06.429
expensive for art college.

00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:08.852
And also I went and I was like,

00:31:09.071 --> 00:31:10.593
because they tell you like, oh,

00:31:10.634 --> 00:31:11.694
we have a hundred percent

00:31:12.174 --> 00:31:13.276
job placement rate.

00:31:13.676 --> 00:31:14.678
And then I went to a party

00:31:14.698 --> 00:31:15.598
where a bunch of people who

00:31:15.638 --> 00:31:17.641
had graduated and they were like, yeah,

00:31:18.422 --> 00:31:20.123
it was fun, but I can't get a job.

00:31:20.163 --> 00:31:21.223
And I was like, oh yeah,

00:31:21.263 --> 00:31:22.025
but the school has a

00:31:22.105 --> 00:31:23.926
hundred percent job placement.

00:31:23.946 --> 00:31:25.167
And they were like, that's not real.

00:31:25.548 --> 00:31:26.309
And I was like, oh, shut up.

00:31:29.413 --> 00:31:31.615
So, yeah, so I moved, I went,

00:31:32.154 --> 00:31:33.635
I transferred back to university.

00:31:34.576 --> 00:31:37.198
No, yeah, no, for sure.

00:31:37.238 --> 00:31:41.000
So I then, I went back to Delaware,

00:31:41.019 --> 00:31:41.681
went to the University of

00:31:41.701 --> 00:31:43.801
Delaware and chose a much

00:31:43.961 --> 00:31:45.462
more lucrative profession

00:31:45.482 --> 00:31:48.144
or a lucrative major with a

00:31:48.183 --> 00:31:49.545
future philosophy.

00:31:50.265 --> 00:31:55.288
so oh um but yeah so I I we

00:31:55.308 --> 00:31:56.950
started doing indie comics

00:31:57.230 --> 00:31:58.711
um right after I got back

00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:01.853
to delaware and we I mean

00:32:01.873 --> 00:32:03.634
we when you're making

00:32:03.673 --> 00:32:04.755
comics with your friends

00:32:05.015 --> 00:32:06.056
and you have no one to

00:32:06.096 --> 00:32:07.497
compare yourself to you

00:32:07.557 --> 00:32:08.718
just you think you're doing

00:32:09.198 --> 00:32:10.098
you know the greatest work

00:32:10.138 --> 00:32:11.519
anyone has ever seen and

00:32:11.539 --> 00:32:12.220
you're about to set the

00:32:12.259 --> 00:32:13.201
world on fire as you're

00:32:13.221 --> 00:32:14.080
doing this with your

00:32:14.121 --> 00:32:15.461
friends like who's

00:32:15.501 --> 00:32:16.782
producing the work for you

00:32:16.843 --> 00:32:17.703
who's printing it are y'all

00:32:17.723 --> 00:32:19.065
going down to the uh

00:32:19.901 --> 00:32:20.882
know the print and press

00:32:20.922 --> 00:32:21.982
place and they're like hey

00:32:22.002 --> 00:32:22.923
can you print this out for

00:32:22.983 --> 00:32:25.086
us uh so the interesting

00:32:25.105 --> 00:32:26.426
story with that so we went

00:32:26.487 --> 00:32:29.028
to uh one of the early

00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:31.632
wizard cons in chicago and

00:32:31.892 --> 00:32:33.513
I was uh we brought our

00:32:33.554 --> 00:32:35.494
pages and I was standing in

00:32:35.796 --> 00:32:36.696
I mean we thought vertigo

00:32:36.737 --> 00:32:37.817
was gonna buy us right off

00:32:37.857 --> 00:32:38.898
the bat like that's how

00:32:39.019 --> 00:32:41.240
delusional we were um so

00:32:41.300 --> 00:32:42.241
I'm standing in line hey

00:32:42.382 --> 00:32:43.722
I'm sorry no me too

00:32:44.963 --> 00:32:46.605
yeah me too so we're

00:32:46.625 --> 00:32:48.365
standing in line at uh to

00:32:48.385 --> 00:32:50.327
get a portfolio review and

00:32:50.367 --> 00:32:51.288
I'm looking around and I

00:32:51.347 --> 00:32:52.108
noticed like everyone

00:32:52.148 --> 00:32:53.490
else's pages look like jim

00:32:53.529 --> 00:32:55.550
lee and my pages are like

00:32:55.691 --> 00:32:57.112
really like scrappy indie

00:32:57.172 --> 00:32:58.353
stuff and I was just like

00:32:58.472 --> 00:32:59.473
oh no I think I've made a

00:32:59.534 --> 00:33:01.375
terrible mistake and that

00:33:01.394 --> 00:33:03.116
they then they they they

00:33:03.176 --> 00:33:04.857
cancel there's too many

00:33:04.897 --> 00:33:06.199
people doing the portfolio

00:33:06.239 --> 00:33:07.338
review they send everybody

00:33:07.378 --> 00:33:09.201
away and so you know I'm

00:33:09.260 --> 00:33:10.842
dejected and this guy you

00:33:10.902 --> 00:33:12.002
ever heard of phil yeh

00:33:13.205 --> 00:33:14.428
It sounds familiar.

00:33:15.589 --> 00:33:18.015
He was part of that scene

00:33:18.214 --> 00:33:22.402
with Scott McCloud and with...

00:33:24.385 --> 00:33:26.426
uh matt graining and the

00:33:26.527 --> 00:33:27.926
ninja turtle guys like that

00:33:27.987 --> 00:33:30.647
that early run yeah yeah

00:33:30.728 --> 00:33:31.848
yeah all those indie guys

00:33:31.868 --> 00:33:32.969
he he did a bunch of work

00:33:32.989 --> 00:33:36.450
with mobius uh also okay so

00:33:36.549 --> 00:33:38.391
so he's like a real guy um

00:33:38.611 --> 00:33:40.051
I I hadn't heard him heard

00:33:40.071 --> 00:33:41.051
of him at the time but he

00:33:41.112 --> 00:33:43.212
sees me walking away and he

00:33:43.232 --> 00:33:44.153
comes over and he goes he

00:33:44.173 --> 00:33:44.772
goes I'll look at your

00:33:44.792 --> 00:33:45.933
pages I'll look at your pages

00:33:46.513 --> 00:33:47.714
and so he goes through and

00:33:47.755 --> 00:33:49.596
he like because it's indie

00:33:49.615 --> 00:33:50.717
stuff he actually likes it

00:33:50.757 --> 00:33:51.857
he thought I was going to

00:33:51.877 --> 00:33:52.718
be one of the jim lee

00:33:52.738 --> 00:33:54.859
clones but it was kind of

00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:55.740
something that was that

00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:57.221
spoke more to him and he

00:33:57.240 --> 00:33:58.682
just explained how to make

00:33:58.721 --> 00:34:00.482
mini comics this day cannot

00:34:00.522 --> 00:34:02.565
be cloned that man is oh no

00:34:02.605 --> 00:34:04.645
for sure for sure yeah no

00:34:04.726 --> 00:34:06.627
absolutely but people try

00:34:06.667 --> 00:34:08.489
people try incredible

00:34:09.221 --> 00:34:12.342
yeah no I I uh watching him

00:34:12.382 --> 00:34:14.364
draw is one of the joys of

00:34:14.445 --> 00:34:16.226
life it's just yeah there's

00:34:16.266 --> 00:34:18.208
a few of them that if I see

00:34:18.228 --> 00:34:20.228
them go live drawing I'm

00:34:20.248 --> 00:34:21.789
glued to youtube watching

00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:23.791
these guys are absolutely whatever

00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:27.481
But yeah, he just did one like last week,

00:34:27.561 --> 00:34:27.920
I think.

00:34:28.021 --> 00:34:29.681
And that was like my life

00:34:29.722 --> 00:34:31.101
for like forty five minutes

00:34:31.262 --> 00:34:32.682
until I got called away to

00:34:32.722 --> 00:34:33.384
do something else.

00:34:33.403 --> 00:34:34.804
I'm like, Jim Lee's drawing.

00:34:34.864 --> 00:34:35.425
I'm going to watch.

00:34:35.465 --> 00:34:35.804
Sorry.

00:34:36.005 --> 00:34:36.605
Yeah.

00:34:36.625 --> 00:34:37.746
I remember back back when

00:34:37.865 --> 00:34:40.266
Image first launched, those guys,

00:34:40.666 --> 00:34:42.088
when they did that big tour.

00:34:42.869 --> 00:34:43.708
So like that.

00:34:43.809 --> 00:34:45.331
there's so many that a lot

00:34:45.351 --> 00:34:45.931
of them probably aren't

00:34:45.951 --> 00:34:47.273
around anymore but so many

00:34:47.333 --> 00:34:49.114
of those uh old comic shops

00:34:49.394 --> 00:34:50.815
had doors that were drawn

00:34:50.896 --> 00:34:52.577
on by jim lee and I know

00:34:52.617 --> 00:34:54.159
the the comic media the

00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:55.740
shop in delaware they had a

00:34:55.820 --> 00:34:57.121
door that all the guys drew

00:34:57.242 --> 00:34:58.684
on and it's just like how

00:34:58.704 --> 00:34:59.664
do you how can you draw on

00:34:59.704 --> 00:35:02.467
a door perfectly how many

00:35:02.648 --> 00:35:05.090
artists come out of that area right there

00:35:05.983 --> 00:35:07.286
Not just there,

00:35:07.306 --> 00:35:08.186
but that was kind of like

00:35:08.226 --> 00:35:10.369
this booming area for comic

00:35:10.650 --> 00:35:12.992
creators from what I've seen.

00:35:13.833 --> 00:35:14.454
And I'm just like,

00:35:14.494 --> 00:35:16.157
because Jersey even now is

00:35:16.297 --> 00:35:19.521
still huge in the comic scene.

00:35:20.409 --> 00:35:20.710
Especially,

00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:22.172
they've got the Hubert School there,

00:35:22.211 --> 00:35:23.612
which I think is one of the

00:35:23.652 --> 00:35:25.936
reasons why it churns out so many people.

00:35:25.996 --> 00:35:28.018
I think that's a big part of it.

00:35:28.038 --> 00:35:29.278
I know, like,

00:35:29.338 --> 00:35:31.440
even those small little comic

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.543
shops up there, Erica Schultz,

00:35:34.384 --> 00:35:35.224
who we were discussing

00:35:35.244 --> 00:35:36.567
before we went live,

00:35:37.286 --> 00:35:39.829
who's doing Rat City and, you know,

00:35:39.869 --> 00:35:41.811
Lauren with It's Twenty-Three and

00:35:42.141 --> 00:35:43.242
Daredevil's Unleashed Shell

00:35:43.262 --> 00:35:44.465
that's currently going on.

00:35:45.005 --> 00:35:46.047
She was just up there doing

00:35:46.086 --> 00:35:47.487
a signing and I think she's

00:35:47.527 --> 00:35:48.570
in that area too.

00:35:49.271 --> 00:35:50.050
So that's kind of like her

00:35:50.092 --> 00:35:51.432
hometown shop that she just

00:35:51.452 --> 00:35:52.735
shows up and does signings.

00:35:53.342 --> 00:35:55.202
Yeah, Philadelphia is really, like,

00:35:55.862 --> 00:35:57.563
really getting it together.

00:35:58.143 --> 00:35:58.304
Yeah,

00:35:58.784 --> 00:36:00.364
there's a couple of really good shops

00:36:00.505 --> 00:36:02.125
and a lot of really good, like,

00:36:02.264 --> 00:36:03.865
indie collectives that put

00:36:03.965 --> 00:36:05.126
on these great shows.

00:36:05.206 --> 00:36:07.246
I mean, it's hard to get a table at,

00:36:07.666 --> 00:36:08.967
and that's for a local show.

00:36:09.047 --> 00:36:11.648
Like, that's just the local artists,

00:36:11.969 --> 00:36:13.168
and there's so many, like,

00:36:13.349 --> 00:36:14.429
really good studios and

00:36:14.449 --> 00:36:15.869
really good operations.

00:36:16.829 --> 00:36:18.530
It really is, and I don't, like...

00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:21.534
I'm in the area, but I'm still far away.

00:36:21.793 --> 00:36:23.474
You know what I'm saying?

00:36:23.554 --> 00:36:24.777
It's still a day's drive.

00:36:24.836 --> 00:36:26.157
And I see all these things

00:36:26.177 --> 00:36:28.440
happening and people posting about it.

00:36:28.539 --> 00:36:31.202
And I'm like, it's right there,

00:36:31.844 --> 00:36:33.405
but it's happening on like

00:36:33.425 --> 00:36:34.686
a Wednesday or something.

00:36:36.688 --> 00:36:38.030
And now I got to take PTO

00:36:38.070 --> 00:36:39.471
and go up there or whatever.

00:36:40.838 --> 00:36:43.139
I have to drive you know

00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:44.380
jersey's not that far away

00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.702
to be fair because when we

00:36:46.722 --> 00:36:47.762
go to new york city that's

00:36:47.782 --> 00:36:49.043
what we do we go to jersey

00:36:49.684 --> 00:36:51.284
we park in jersey we stay

00:36:51.344 --> 00:36:53.244
in jersey we catch the the

00:36:53.284 --> 00:36:54.545
boat across the water to

00:36:54.585 --> 00:36:56.367
new york city and that's

00:36:56.387 --> 00:36:57.427
how we go to new york city

00:36:57.447 --> 00:36:58.208
because it's cheaper to

00:36:58.228 --> 00:36:59.208
stay on the jersey side

00:36:59.248 --> 00:37:01.170
than the new york side oh

00:37:01.210 --> 00:37:03.351
that makes sense yeah yeah and um

00:37:04.402 --> 00:37:06.465
But even there, like New York City itself,

00:37:06.505 --> 00:37:09.168
I think there's two, three comic shops.

00:37:09.849 --> 00:37:11.532
But in Jersey itself,

00:37:11.771 --> 00:37:12.612
it feels like there's one

00:37:12.693 --> 00:37:15.317
on like every city has a nice one.

00:37:15.336 --> 00:37:15.496
Yeah.

00:37:15.838 --> 00:37:16.980
No, this is crazy.

00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.942
So I live in a tiny little town, right?

00:37:20.483 --> 00:37:21.903
I got four comic shops

00:37:21.943 --> 00:37:24.545
within walking distance of my house.

00:37:25.206 --> 00:37:29.309
I've never had such a bounty

00:37:29.530 --> 00:37:31.291
of shops ever in my life.

00:37:31.311 --> 00:37:32.012
And I'm sure there are

00:37:32.052 --> 00:37:33.634
really nice ones too.

00:37:34.193 --> 00:37:35.295
Yep, absolutely.

00:37:37.096 --> 00:37:40.378
This general area is really

00:37:40.418 --> 00:37:42.760
good for comics appreciation.

00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:43.762
And I was telling you before

00:37:43.802 --> 00:37:44.702
you went live that I...

00:37:45.282 --> 00:37:45.963
you when you said you were

00:37:46.003 --> 00:37:47.402
in south jersey I'm like oh

00:37:47.782 --> 00:37:48.864
I get to add another jersey

00:37:48.884 --> 00:37:50.143
guy to my friends list you

00:37:50.164 --> 00:37:51.664
know because I do literally

00:37:51.704 --> 00:37:53.244
have quite a few friends

00:37:53.264 --> 00:37:55.425
that are in that area and

00:37:55.445 --> 00:37:56.644
they're both involved with

00:37:57.505 --> 00:37:59.146
um you've heard of the pop

00:37:59.186 --> 00:38:01.945
break yeah yeah yeah bill

00:38:01.985 --> 00:38:03.365
bodkin who runs that he's

00:38:03.405 --> 00:38:06.646
there um he's a rutgers

00:38:06.686 --> 00:38:09.827
grad um I think he pays me

00:38:09.847 --> 00:38:12.608
to say that I'm sure and then um

00:38:13.463 --> 00:38:14.385
I got another friend who's

00:38:14.405 --> 00:38:15.465
in northern Jersey and

00:38:15.485 --> 00:38:16.465
they're involved in the

00:38:16.565 --> 00:38:17.786
indie wrestling scene.

00:38:18.487 --> 00:38:19.829
So I know all these people

00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:21.090
up there and I'm like,

00:38:21.190 --> 00:38:22.530
I just need a good weekend,

00:38:22.570 --> 00:38:23.811
a three or a four day

00:38:23.851 --> 00:38:24.833
weekend where I can just go

00:38:24.853 --> 00:38:27.215
to Jersey and spend like

00:38:27.255 --> 00:38:28.476
the entire weekend up there

00:38:28.496 --> 00:38:29.836
with all my friends and go

00:38:29.856 --> 00:38:30.777
to all these really cool

00:38:30.838 --> 00:38:31.958
comic shops they have there

00:38:31.978 --> 00:38:33.739
because y'all have tons of them at sea.

00:38:33.860 --> 00:38:35.061
Yeah, we really do apps.

00:38:35.181 --> 00:38:36.481
And then in Philly,

00:38:36.501 --> 00:38:38.724
there's this shop partners and son,

00:38:39.664 --> 00:38:41.246
and pretty much any big

00:38:41.726 --> 00:38:42.927
indie book that comes out,

00:38:43.327 --> 00:38:45.510
they'll have the creators there,

00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:46.791
they'll do an art show,

00:38:46.851 --> 00:38:49.112
they'll do talks that it's

00:38:49.253 --> 00:38:50.054
it's incredible.

00:38:52.115 --> 00:38:54.577
So, um, so Phil yay,

00:38:54.918 --> 00:38:55.838
basically just walked me

00:38:55.858 --> 00:38:57.300
through how to do mini comics.

00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:57.840
He was like,

00:38:57.860 --> 00:38:58.541
here's what you're gonna do

00:38:58.561 --> 00:38:59.262
with these pages.

00:38:59.681 --> 00:39:00.802
Stop going to

00:39:02.608 --> 00:39:04.588
companies stop stop going to

00:39:04.628 --> 00:39:05.668
companies and asking them

00:39:05.688 --> 00:39:07.050
to look at your stuff and

00:39:07.090 --> 00:39:07.769
just take it down the

00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:09.791
kinkos and make it yourself

00:39:10.210 --> 00:39:10.851
and that kind of just

00:39:10.871 --> 00:39:11.931
became the mission

00:39:11.951 --> 00:39:13.632
statement for a good long

00:39:13.692 --> 00:39:16.793
time and and and then uh as

00:39:16.853 --> 00:39:18.233
time went on getting books

00:39:18.293 --> 00:39:19.594
printed became easier and

00:39:19.693 --> 00:39:21.373
easier like the first the

00:39:21.414 --> 00:39:22.494
first couple books we did

00:39:22.534 --> 00:39:24.235
were that the old offset

00:39:24.315 --> 00:39:25.996
print on newsprint

00:39:27.257 --> 00:39:27.597
Yeah.

00:39:27.617 --> 00:39:30.478
And yeah, with a thousand copy minimums,

00:39:30.958 --> 00:39:31.940
like, Oh man,

00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:32.940
do you know how hard it is

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:34.661
to get rid of a thousand copies?

00:39:35.461 --> 00:39:35.922
It is,

00:39:35.983 --> 00:39:37.284
but it was really cheap to print it

00:39:37.384 --> 00:39:37.764
off too.

00:39:37.824 --> 00:39:38.804
It was, it was.

00:39:38.905 --> 00:39:39.264
Yeah.

00:39:39.284 --> 00:39:39.885
Yeah.

00:39:39.905 --> 00:39:40.925
In fact, I,

00:39:41.146 --> 00:39:42.327
I can't find anyone that'll do

00:39:42.407 --> 00:39:43.447
newsprint anymore.

00:39:44.048 --> 00:39:44.728
It's very hard.

00:39:44.789 --> 00:39:45.309
I miss it.

00:39:45.349 --> 00:39:49.472
What's it called?

00:39:50.612 --> 00:39:52.474
The heavier stuff, not the gloss, but the,

00:39:52.554 --> 00:39:52.675
um,

00:39:54.990 --> 00:39:55.451
Ah, damn it.

00:39:55.471 --> 00:39:56.552
It's what a lot of the comic

00:39:56.572 --> 00:39:57.713
book creators- Oh, card stock?

00:39:58.333 --> 00:39:59.335
Card stock, yeah.

00:39:59.454 --> 00:40:00.536
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:01.396 --> 00:40:02.498
So yeah, to be honest,

00:40:02.557 --> 00:40:04.480
I would love to be able to

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:05.581
print on newsprint again,

00:40:05.902 --> 00:40:08.003
but it's now this niche market.

00:40:08.023 --> 00:40:08.784
It would actually be more

00:40:08.824 --> 00:40:10.666
expensive now probably than

00:40:10.706 --> 00:40:11.547
printing on regular paper.

00:40:11.567 --> 00:40:12.248
You're exactly right, yeah.

00:40:12.748 --> 00:40:14.969
yeah um but yeah but then uh

00:40:15.028 --> 00:40:16.449
yeah as time went on and

00:40:16.469 --> 00:40:18.509
you could just order fifty

00:40:18.668 --> 00:40:20.869
a hundred two hundred uh

00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:22.630
copies of full color books

00:40:22.650 --> 00:40:25.731
um it became much easier to

00:40:25.811 --> 00:40:28.472
self-publish um than it was

00:40:28.512 --> 00:40:29.492
back in the day and those

00:40:29.731 --> 00:40:31.072
those kinko's machines were

00:40:31.331 --> 00:40:33.452
unforgiving it had to be

00:40:34.072 --> 00:40:37.153
yeah black or white yeah or

00:40:37.233 --> 00:40:38.675
white you could have no

00:40:38.715 --> 00:40:40.054
grayscale nowadays you can

00:40:40.094 --> 00:40:42.016
get grayscale on your black

00:40:42.076 --> 00:40:43.697
and white prints but so I

00:40:43.717 --> 00:40:44.597
ended up developing this

00:40:44.657 --> 00:40:48.759
really weird um like uh

00:40:48.798 --> 00:40:50.179
like doing hatch mark and

00:40:50.260 --> 00:40:51.900
stipple just to create

00:40:51.940 --> 00:40:53.740
tones I basically became a

00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:56.521
a human zippitone factory

00:40:56.942 --> 00:40:58.163
and so I had this really it

00:40:58.182 --> 00:40:59.503
took me a long time to work

00:40:59.663 --> 00:41:01.023
out of you if you if you

00:41:01.664 --> 00:41:03.505
like get the pages in the

00:41:03.525 --> 00:41:05.164
comic and like look really

00:41:05.204 --> 00:41:07.025
close I'm still like cross

00:41:07.065 --> 00:41:08.427
hatching even though I

00:41:08.447 --> 00:41:09.726
don't need to just to have

00:41:09.827 --> 00:41:11.867
it go away it's funny you

00:41:11.927 --> 00:41:13.447
say that though but a lot

00:41:13.507 --> 00:41:15.628
of the guys who write and

00:41:15.668 --> 00:41:18.090
draw manga in Japan they

00:41:18.150 --> 00:41:19.851
still use cross hatch

00:41:20.010 --> 00:41:21.291
heavily if you've ever read

00:41:21.311 --> 00:41:23.152
their books and the way

00:41:23.172 --> 00:41:24.192
they do it and the amount

00:41:24.211 --> 00:41:25.853
of detail they can squeeze

00:41:25.893 --> 00:41:27.353
into cross hatching stuff

00:41:28.014 --> 00:41:30.994
and it's mind numbingly amazing like

00:41:32.483 --> 00:41:33.463
Like, because you get this nice,

00:41:33.543 --> 00:41:35.005
pretty cover and outside,

00:41:35.025 --> 00:41:36.065
and then inside of it is

00:41:36.126 --> 00:41:37.507
mostly black and white.

00:41:38.246 --> 00:41:39.108
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:39.128 --> 00:41:39.688
So you get, like,

00:41:39.708 --> 00:41:40.489
the crosshatching and how

00:41:40.509 --> 00:41:42.309
they do the shadowing, and you're like,

00:41:42.811 --> 00:41:44.731
dude, this art is phenomenal.

00:41:45.032 --> 00:41:45.572
And I'm like,

00:41:45.972 --> 00:41:47.253
you can tell they're just sitting there,

00:41:47.813 --> 00:41:50.715
like, hours on a page, crosshatching and,

00:41:51.277 --> 00:41:52.597
you know, adding these...

00:41:53.432 --> 00:41:55.092
little minute details into

00:41:55.152 --> 00:41:57.153
it with cross hatching and

00:41:57.193 --> 00:41:58.333
it's like dude I can't

00:41:58.393 --> 00:42:00.074
imagine the amount of time

00:42:00.494 --> 00:42:01.715
oh man I spent so much time

00:42:01.755 --> 00:42:03.655
doing that stuff that one

00:42:04.476 --> 00:42:06.335
one you know quarter panel

00:42:06.436 --> 00:42:11.617
of a book yeah yeah yeah

00:42:11.637 --> 00:42:14.918
but okay so let's go to

00:42:16.831 --> 00:42:17.771
Let's talk about the actual

00:42:17.811 --> 00:42:20.233
Kickstarter itself.

00:42:20.353 --> 00:42:22.253
When are you kicking off

00:42:22.315 --> 00:42:25.155
Tales of the Illuminatus issue two?

00:42:25.175 --> 00:42:27.197
So we're kicking off on April first,

00:42:27.737 --> 00:42:28.597
so Tuesday.

00:42:29.297 --> 00:42:33.079
So the pre-save page is already up there,

00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:34.860
but we're going to open it

00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:36.201
up on August first.

00:42:36.601 --> 00:42:38.121
We're going to run it for two months.

00:42:38.141 --> 00:42:38.581
August first?

00:42:39.521 --> 00:42:40.742
Oh, no, I'm sorry.

00:42:40.822 --> 00:42:41.623
April first April.

00:42:41.682 --> 00:42:44.123
Like, like, yeah, that's,

00:42:45.065 --> 00:42:46.606
we're gonna we're gonna run it for.

00:42:48.766 --> 00:42:49.927
We're gonna run it for two months,

00:42:49.947 --> 00:42:50.628
we're gonna have a nice,

00:42:50.788 --> 00:42:52.409
nice leisurely campaign.

00:42:53.088 --> 00:42:55.610
And we're gonna be good to go.

00:42:55.670 --> 00:42:56.630
We're going to be shipping

00:42:56.871 --> 00:43:00.172
either in early summer or mid summer.

00:43:00.213 --> 00:43:01.592
So either June or July,

00:43:02.434 --> 00:43:03.695
we'll be sending books out.

00:43:04.275 --> 00:43:06.315
And yeah,

00:43:07.088 --> 00:43:08.389
yeah yeah so the turnaround

00:43:08.429 --> 00:43:09.690
time should be pretty quick

00:43:10.010 --> 00:43:10.911
and I think we're gonna

00:43:10.931 --> 00:43:13.193
have time to get a jump

00:43:13.233 --> 00:43:14.735
start on issue three so

00:43:14.755 --> 00:43:16.295
we're gonna try to do uh

00:43:16.496 --> 00:43:19.039
two issues um in the

00:43:19.179 --> 00:43:20.780
upcoming year so uh we did

00:43:21.221 --> 00:43:22.882
we did one uh because I'm

00:43:23.483 --> 00:43:24.583
you know I'm I'm a high

00:43:24.623 --> 00:43:25.905
school teacher so I have the summers

00:43:26.465 --> 00:43:28.306
and so it's real yeah yeah

00:43:29.067 --> 00:43:31.208
um so yeah so it's I I

00:43:31.248 --> 00:43:31.750
think we're going to be

00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:34.331
able to get issue two done

00:43:34.371 --> 00:43:35.652
with enough time to get a

00:43:36.012 --> 00:43:37.474
jump start on issue three

00:43:37.514 --> 00:43:38.394
so we don't have to wait so

00:43:38.436 --> 00:43:40.597
long in between two issues

00:43:40.617 --> 00:43:41.617
dropping this year and then

00:43:41.657 --> 00:43:43.039
to the following how many

00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:44.000
yeah that's the goal you

00:43:44.019 --> 00:43:44.820
think you're going to get

00:43:45.001 --> 00:43:47.202
out of the book because so

00:43:47.262 --> 00:43:50.226
I think three books eight hundred pages

00:43:52.244 --> 00:43:53.706
That's a lot of comic books.

00:43:54.206 --> 00:43:54.726
It is indeed.

00:43:54.847 --> 00:43:56.009
And we are currently at

00:43:56.028 --> 00:43:59.813
about a page-to-page translation ratio.

00:44:00.195 --> 00:44:01.536
So for every page of the book,

00:44:01.596 --> 00:44:03.518
we're at about a page of the comic.

00:44:05.021 --> 00:44:06.722
We have a couple of...

00:44:07.324 --> 00:44:09.065
different contingency plans

00:44:09.485 --> 00:44:12.166
so we have because so if we

00:44:12.365 --> 00:44:13.286
keep up the pace we're

00:44:13.327 --> 00:44:15.226
going as it's outlined I

00:44:15.268 --> 00:44:16.327
think it's about twenty

00:44:16.347 --> 00:44:18.349
three issues long um would

00:44:18.389 --> 00:44:21.449
be to do the full thing um

00:44:21.469 --> 00:44:23.431
but we also if the if the

00:44:23.451 --> 00:44:24.771
book catches on in a big

00:44:24.811 --> 00:44:27.373
bad way we also have uh

00:44:27.452 --> 00:44:29.293
prequels and sequels that

00:44:29.313 --> 00:44:30.474
we can adapt as well

00:44:30.733 --> 00:44:32.335
there's all there's a whole another right

00:44:32.474 --> 00:44:33.115
There's a whole other

00:44:33.175 --> 00:44:34.677
trilogy and a couple of

00:44:34.737 --> 00:44:36.298
side books and stuff like that.

00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:37.460
So if we want to keep the

00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:38.721
thing rolling past twenty three,

00:44:38.740 --> 00:44:39.521
we definitely can.

00:44:40.141 --> 00:44:40.963
But I'm also because you

00:44:40.983 --> 00:44:42.304
know how indie comics is,

00:44:42.603 --> 00:44:43.585
you don't always make it

00:44:43.945 --> 00:44:45.427
where you're hoping to make it.

00:44:45.746 --> 00:44:48.088
So we have a we have a

00:44:48.128 --> 00:44:50.050
collection point we're hitting,

00:44:50.431 --> 00:44:52.833
which is issue five is

00:44:52.893 --> 00:44:53.393
where we're going to

00:44:53.414 --> 00:44:54.594
collect everything together.

00:44:55.036 --> 00:44:57.737
And it's kind of one of those things where

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.400
It can work as a complete story,

00:45:01.981 --> 00:45:03.282
or it can work as a rest

00:45:03.322 --> 00:45:05.204
point before we continue on

00:45:05.563 --> 00:45:07.085
into the rest of the series.

00:45:07.244 --> 00:45:08.425
Once you get to issue five,

00:45:08.445 --> 00:45:09.246
you're going to pause it,

00:45:09.666 --> 00:45:10.768
do a trade paperback,

00:45:10.807 --> 00:45:11.668
and then continue on?

00:45:12.309 --> 00:45:15.271
Correct.

00:45:15.572 --> 00:45:16.472
The goal is we don't want to

00:45:16.512 --> 00:45:17.472
leave people hanging.

00:45:18.293 --> 00:45:21.576
We would like to have a complete story.

00:45:22.155 --> 00:45:24.836
satisfying read and so we

00:45:24.876 --> 00:45:25.556
have something that's

00:45:25.637 --> 00:45:28.237
doable with just the free

00:45:28.277 --> 00:45:29.577
time that I have if it

00:45:29.617 --> 00:45:31.018
doesn't catch fire and

00:45:31.059 --> 00:45:32.920
become this juggernaut um

00:45:33.099 --> 00:45:34.400
so we'll definitely get to

00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:36.280
that and then sky's the

00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:37.780
limit if it does catch on

00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:39.541
because there's another

00:45:39.641 --> 00:45:41.362
like sixteen hundred pages

00:45:41.402 --> 00:45:42.342
worth of material that we

00:45:42.362 --> 00:45:44.362
can adapt so this thing

00:45:44.382 --> 00:45:45.284
this thing could go on

00:45:47.143 --> 00:45:48.204
The amount of material

00:45:48.244 --> 00:45:49.864
that's out there outside of

00:45:49.885 --> 00:45:51.505
just the trilogy,

00:45:51.706 --> 00:45:53.965
the prequels and the other things,

00:45:54.106 --> 00:45:55.367
it's pretty crazy.

00:45:56.126 --> 00:45:59.088
So I know other authors and

00:45:59.128 --> 00:46:00.527
comic book creators who do

00:46:00.608 --> 00:46:02.248
take books as well.

00:46:02.268 --> 00:46:04.248
Like a lot of the Star Wars stuff,

00:46:04.688 --> 00:46:05.610
they take the book and they

00:46:05.650 --> 00:46:07.969
make it into comic books as well.

00:46:08.971 --> 00:46:10.811
How hard has... And I think

00:46:10.851 --> 00:46:12.472
I kind of asked you this earlier.

00:46:12.572 --> 00:46:13.311
How hard...

00:46:14.701 --> 00:46:17.063
is it from just any

00:46:17.083 --> 00:46:18.242
perspective really to

00:46:18.362 --> 00:46:21.344
translate a book into a comic book?

00:46:21.405 --> 00:46:22.226
That's got to,

00:46:22.246 --> 00:46:25.608
cause you got to be like a

00:46:25.668 --> 00:46:27.108
quarter panel sometimes,

00:46:27.208 --> 00:46:29.409
or it could be a whole page is a page.

00:46:29.990 --> 00:46:30.630
For sure.

00:46:31.572 --> 00:46:34.213
It's it actually has turned

00:46:34.273 --> 00:46:35.994
out to be a lot easier than

00:46:36.094 --> 00:46:38.436
I thought because I figured

00:46:38.556 --> 00:46:41.117
out kind of an approach that works,

00:46:41.177 --> 00:46:42.559
which is essentially like,

00:46:43.621 --> 00:46:45.302
I'm trying to, when I'm adapting,

00:46:45.322 --> 00:46:46.461
I'm paying attention to

00:46:46.541 --> 00:46:49.023
what's physically happening in the book.

00:46:49.643 --> 00:46:50.322
So like,

00:46:50.342 --> 00:46:53.824
cause it might be that across eight pages,

00:46:54.164 --> 00:46:56.204
a guy is making a cup of coffee, right?

00:46:56.344 --> 00:46:57.164
Like that's all that's

00:46:57.204 --> 00:46:58.806
physically happening where

00:46:58.885 --> 00:47:00.967
he's thinking back or

00:47:01.027 --> 00:47:04.128
thinking of all sorts of

00:47:04.228 --> 00:47:06.387
emotions that he's having or, you know,

00:47:06.427 --> 00:47:07.648
things that aren't physical.

00:47:08.168 --> 00:47:09.670
So rule number one that I

00:47:09.710 --> 00:47:11.112
have for myself is to

00:47:11.532 --> 00:47:13.032
follow what is physically

00:47:13.092 --> 00:47:14.394
happening in the book.

00:47:14.855 --> 00:47:15.715
Where are they?

00:47:16.036 --> 00:47:16.836
Who's there?

00:47:17.197 --> 00:47:18.117
What are they doing?

00:47:18.518 --> 00:47:20.400
And so that I focus on

00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.782
adapting that material first.

00:47:23.202 --> 00:47:24.523
And then what you have is

00:47:24.844 --> 00:47:26.885
you have this mass of

00:47:26.945 --> 00:47:29.088
material that covers what's

00:47:29.128 --> 00:47:30.869
happening and you just pick

00:47:30.909 --> 00:47:31.989
the best lines.

00:47:32.250 --> 00:47:33.791
You pick the best parts.

00:47:33.831 --> 00:47:34.172
Yeah.

00:47:35.532 --> 00:47:37.195
Eight pages of a guy making coffee.

00:47:37.255 --> 00:47:38.476
Like, how do you break that down?

00:47:38.496 --> 00:47:39.518
Would you break it down into

00:47:40.278 --> 00:47:42.340
four panels per page of him

00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:43.422
making the coffee and the

00:47:43.442 --> 00:47:44.483
thoughts going through his head?

00:47:44.523 --> 00:47:46.264
Or is that like because I

00:47:46.284 --> 00:47:47.085
know you're you were saying

00:47:47.106 --> 00:47:48.228
you're doing a one to one

00:47:48.288 --> 00:47:51.010
almost right now with a page is a page.

00:47:51.775 --> 00:47:51.954
Well,

00:47:51.994 --> 00:47:54.077
but not literally that's just how it's,

00:47:54.237 --> 00:47:56.657
it's breaking down in terms

00:47:56.697 --> 00:47:58.599
of where I got to in the story,

00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:00.360
but it's not, it's not literally,

00:48:00.701 --> 00:48:02.442
if you go to page one, that's page one.

00:48:02.461 --> 00:48:03.882
If you go to page two, that's page two.

00:48:03.902 --> 00:48:04.943
There's stuff,

00:48:04.963 --> 00:48:05.804
there's stuff that there's

00:48:05.844 --> 00:48:06.585
stuff that gets cut.

00:48:06.985 --> 00:48:08.065
And, and, and so it does.

00:48:08.626 --> 00:48:11.268
So really what's nice is, um,

00:48:11.307 --> 00:48:12.748
so when you have a panel of

00:48:12.768 --> 00:48:14.610
the guy pouring the cup of coffee,

00:48:15.269 --> 00:48:15.971
you have.

00:48:17.434 --> 00:48:19.255
six paragraphs of material

00:48:19.635 --> 00:48:21.217
of lines to choose from.

00:48:21.938 --> 00:48:24.298
And so you just get to go, not that one,

00:48:24.498 --> 00:48:25.900
not that one, that one.

00:48:26.019 --> 00:48:27.041
And then you grab it and

00:48:27.061 --> 00:48:28.061
then it goes on there.

00:48:28.141 --> 00:48:29.362
Or if then you're like, ah,

00:48:29.382 --> 00:48:30.623
this page looks a little bare.

00:48:31.222 --> 00:48:32.563
I need something down here.

00:48:33.023 --> 00:48:34.405
Then you go back in and you're like, oh,

00:48:34.425 --> 00:48:35.465
there's another good line.

00:48:35.605 --> 00:48:36.465
And you pop that in.

00:48:36.965 --> 00:48:38.047
and it just becomes it

00:48:38.068 --> 00:48:39.128
becomes an embarrassment of

00:48:39.188 --> 00:48:41.472
riches because you need so

00:48:41.532 --> 00:48:43.315
little and you have so much

00:48:43.614 --> 00:48:44.635
that it's just like cherry

00:48:44.677 --> 00:48:46.278
picking the best parts and

00:48:46.318 --> 00:48:47.599
peppering it into the page

00:48:47.661 --> 00:48:49.643
yeah and I've seen in other

00:48:49.682 --> 00:48:50.403
comic books where they

00:48:50.563 --> 00:48:51.746
they've done similar where

00:48:51.945 --> 00:48:53.128
there's a book and then

00:48:53.148 --> 00:48:54.088
there's a comic book

00:48:56.269 --> 00:48:58.291
And you can definitely tell where they've,

00:48:58.931 --> 00:48:59.130
like,

00:48:59.650 --> 00:49:01.110
it almost feels like something's missing,

00:49:01.130 --> 00:49:02.032
but you can tell they had

00:49:02.052 --> 00:49:03.891
to make a conscious decision there.

00:49:04.391 --> 00:49:06.713
Like, what do I say or what do I do here?

00:49:06.733 --> 00:49:08.393
Because the story will kind of be here.

00:49:08.413 --> 00:49:10.012
And then all of a sudden, you know,

00:49:10.353 --> 00:49:12.934
either a page or a few panels over,

00:49:12.954 --> 00:49:15.534
it's like something happened in there.

00:49:15.554 --> 00:49:17.135
They had to make a hard decision.

00:49:17.474 --> 00:49:17.655
Right.

00:49:17.675 --> 00:49:18.474
They cut something.

00:49:19.054 --> 00:49:20.956
Cut something, you know.

00:49:22.556 --> 00:49:23.157
It's so weird.

00:49:23.538 --> 00:49:24.920
As you've done this long

00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:25.641
enough and you've read

00:49:25.681 --> 00:49:27.422
enough comic books and stuff like that,

00:49:27.443 --> 00:49:28.384
you can tell where hard

00:49:28.423 --> 00:49:29.445
decisions were made when

00:49:29.505 --> 00:49:31.228
something came from a book

00:49:31.268 --> 00:49:32.248
into a comic book.

00:49:33.304 --> 00:49:34.945
You know what's funny?

00:49:34.965 --> 00:49:35.846
What I figured out from

00:49:35.905 --> 00:49:37.567
doing this is where the

00:49:37.646 --> 00:49:39.487
benefit of experience is.

00:49:39.766 --> 00:49:40.987
So I have at this point,

00:49:41.007 --> 00:49:42.949
twenty years of comic making experience.

00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:47.230
And it's not that the twenty years, I mean,

00:49:47.329 --> 00:49:48.771
I've gotten better as I've gone along,

00:49:48.791 --> 00:49:49.791
but that's not the main

00:49:49.831 --> 00:49:50.931
benefit of experience.

00:49:51.192 --> 00:49:51.952
The main benefit of

00:49:52.012 --> 00:49:53.913
experience is every time

00:49:54.072 --> 00:49:56.052
you find yourself painted in a corner,

00:49:56.813 --> 00:49:57.893
I have twenty years worth

00:49:57.934 --> 00:49:59.255
of proof that I always get

00:49:59.295 --> 00:49:59.875
out of the corner.

00:50:00.554 --> 00:50:01.376
And so when you find

00:50:01.396 --> 00:50:03.117
yourself in that corner, you go, oh,

00:50:03.717 --> 00:50:04.657
it always works out.

00:50:05.117 --> 00:50:06.878
And so like it's hard to get

00:50:06.938 --> 00:50:08.980
like super frustrated because, you know,

00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:10.581
there's always there's

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.762
there's some there's a line of dialogue.

00:50:13.782 --> 00:50:14.862
There's a caption.

00:50:15.182 --> 00:50:15.983
There's an image.

00:50:16.043 --> 00:50:17.224
Something will get me from

00:50:17.284 --> 00:50:19.346
point A to point B like I

00:50:19.405 --> 00:50:21.186
need to if I just leave

00:50:21.226 --> 00:50:22.547
that panel right there.

00:50:23.228 --> 00:50:24.628
and just think about it or

00:50:24.670 --> 00:50:25.690
just let it go for a little

00:50:25.710 --> 00:50:27.793
bit the answer always pops

00:50:27.893 --> 00:50:29.434
up it always pops up and it

00:50:29.454 --> 00:50:30.454
does and then you move on

00:50:30.916 --> 00:50:31.817
that's what I was going to

00:50:31.836 --> 00:50:33.237
ask like have you ever like

00:50:33.257 --> 00:50:35.760
just you're on the page and

00:50:35.780 --> 00:50:36.601
you kind of have the way

00:50:36.621 --> 00:50:38.123
you want to go but you

00:50:38.163 --> 00:50:38.864
already know what you want

00:50:38.884 --> 00:50:40.826
to do on this next page you

00:50:40.846 --> 00:50:41.585
just go ahead and do the

00:50:41.646 --> 00:50:42.666
next page and then just

00:50:42.686 --> 00:50:43.989
kind of like come back over

00:50:44.028 --> 00:50:44.809
here to this one and go

00:50:44.889 --> 00:50:46.150
okay now I know what I want to do

00:50:47.108 --> 00:50:49.389
yeah for sure over here

00:50:49.489 --> 00:50:51.190
first before you can like

00:50:51.230 --> 00:50:52.610
let me flesh this out and

00:50:52.650 --> 00:50:53.471
then come back over here

00:50:53.530 --> 00:50:55.192
and then I can mill this

00:50:55.231 --> 00:50:56.273
and flush it down as well

00:50:56.853 --> 00:50:57.672
yeah and then the other

00:50:57.713 --> 00:51:00.434
thing the other uh like key

00:51:00.474 --> 00:51:01.335
that unlocked it was

00:51:01.375 --> 00:51:04.336
basically uh I do marvel

00:51:04.356 --> 00:51:07.597
method with myself so so it

00:51:07.617 --> 00:51:09.378
you tell the story visually

00:51:09.498 --> 00:51:11.579
first and then you go in

00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:12.740
and you put the words in

00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:14.722
because if it makes sense visually

00:51:15.362 --> 00:51:17.565
The words will just add to it.

00:51:17.625 --> 00:51:20.188
So it has to make sense visually first.

00:51:20.690 --> 00:51:21.791
And then whatever words you

00:51:21.811 --> 00:51:22.552
throw on top of it,

00:51:22.612 --> 00:51:23.634
it already works because it

00:51:23.653 --> 00:51:24.335
works visually.

00:51:24.675 --> 00:51:25.476
So if it works without the words.

00:51:25.516 --> 00:51:26.157
I think we have to caveat

00:51:26.197 --> 00:51:28.119
that with issue one,

00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:31.164
the first eight pages, it does not apply.

00:51:32.072 --> 00:51:32.393
Yes.

00:51:33.693 --> 00:51:37.456
What you want to do in those

00:51:37.476 --> 00:51:38.677
first eight pages, well,

00:51:39.257 --> 00:51:40.619
there's a couple of games

00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:41.318
I'm playing there.

00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:45.141
First is I wanted to deviate

00:51:45.181 --> 00:51:46.242
from the source material

00:51:46.302 --> 00:51:47.083
right off the bat.

00:51:49.144 --> 00:51:50.284
Just so no one could,

00:51:50.905 --> 00:51:52.106
just so I didn't have to worry about it.

00:51:52.306 --> 00:51:53.887
I'm like, I've already done it.

00:51:54.708 --> 00:51:56.429
I've already changed something.

00:51:56.789 --> 00:51:58.731
So let's get that out of the way.

00:51:59.992 --> 00:52:01.333
I'm reading issue one.

00:52:02.373 --> 00:52:03.753
in the first page I forgot

00:52:03.773 --> 00:52:04.635
what it was but then

00:52:04.655 --> 00:52:06.076
there's the the talking the

00:52:06.096 --> 00:52:07.036
talking dolphin appears

00:52:07.076 --> 00:52:07.817
throughout it and you're

00:52:07.856 --> 00:52:09.697
like yeah yeah why in the

00:52:09.737 --> 00:52:10.617
fuck is there a talking

00:52:10.657 --> 00:52:11.639
dolphin part of my french

00:52:11.659 --> 00:52:13.000
if you're not yeah no of

00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:14.400
course yeah yeah I'm like

00:52:14.460 --> 00:52:15.641
what the fuck is he doing

00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:17.001
was there a talking dolphin

00:52:19.617 --> 00:52:21.197
My fault for not reading or

00:52:21.237 --> 00:52:22.338
catching up on what the

00:52:22.418 --> 00:52:24.177
actual source material was first.

00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:25.878
I'm like,

00:52:25.898 --> 00:52:27.599
I'm going to read the first issue.

00:52:27.639 --> 00:52:28.940
It was sent to me graciously.

00:52:29.500 --> 00:52:30.541
I appreciated it.

00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:31.760
I'm going to read it.

00:52:32.782 --> 00:52:33.382
And I'm like,

00:52:33.775 --> 00:52:35.016
oh God, what am I reading?

00:52:35.396 --> 00:52:37.237
And then I'm like, okay, story time,

00:52:37.277 --> 00:52:37.757
finally.

00:52:37.797 --> 00:52:38.617
Yeah, yeah.

00:52:38.637 --> 00:52:39.438
And I used to get into the

00:52:39.478 --> 00:52:40.918
story and I got through it.

00:52:41.260 --> 00:52:41.840
I'm like, okay,

00:52:42.420 --> 00:52:43.920
let me go figure out what

00:52:44.521 --> 00:52:46.623
exactly this is because it, I'm like,

00:52:46.643 --> 00:52:47.864
those first eight pages are,

00:52:49.143 --> 00:52:49.804
they're out there.

00:52:50.324 --> 00:52:51.405
And when I, you know,

00:52:51.445 --> 00:52:53.206
I'm telling people this and I'm like, hey,

00:52:53.226 --> 00:52:54.007
I just read this book.

00:52:54.027 --> 00:52:56.668
The first eight pages were, wow.

00:52:56.889 --> 00:52:58.349
But then this story is good.

00:52:59.371 --> 00:53:01.572
And they're like, what?

00:53:01.871 --> 00:53:03.333
I'm like, yeah, before we see it,

00:53:04.126 --> 00:53:05.588
Before we settled down into

00:53:05.628 --> 00:53:07.210
a pretty straightforward, like,

00:53:07.751 --> 00:53:09.572
Raymond Chandler detective novel,

00:53:09.833 --> 00:53:12.295
we wanted to at least make

00:53:12.335 --> 00:53:13.398
sure that you knew that you

00:53:13.418 --> 00:53:15.940
were in for a different kind of ride,

00:53:16.221 --> 00:53:18.043
that it's not just a

00:53:18.422 --> 00:53:19.965
straightforward detective novel.

00:53:20.244 --> 00:53:20.425
Yeah.

00:53:21.847 --> 00:53:23.248
Right on.

00:53:23.268 --> 00:53:23.929
Oh, I'm so glad.

00:53:24.449 --> 00:53:25.469
I like your reaction to that

00:53:25.489 --> 00:53:28.391
because so many people that

00:53:28.512 --> 00:53:30.353
read it are already like

00:53:30.532 --> 00:53:32.193
initiated into that world.

00:53:32.474 --> 00:53:33.094
So they don't even,

00:53:33.255 --> 00:53:34.275
they don't even notice that

00:53:34.315 --> 00:53:35.715
the first eight pages are weird.

00:53:35.976 --> 00:53:36.456
You know what I mean?

00:53:36.496 --> 00:53:38.737
Like, because they know to expect it.

00:53:38.757 --> 00:53:40.739
They know that like, it's,

00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:42.581
I'm like playing the hits on the,

00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:44.661
on those early pages, but I,

00:53:44.702 --> 00:53:45.822
that's awesome that it,

00:53:45.963 --> 00:53:48.724
it stands out as truly bizarre,

00:53:49.065 --> 00:53:50.385
which is what I was shooting for.

00:53:51.407 --> 00:53:51.487
Yeah.

00:53:51.626 --> 00:53:54.170
You you you more than accomplish that,

00:53:54.190 --> 00:53:55.092
because like I said, I'm like,

00:53:55.112 --> 00:53:56.012
I'm going to have to like

00:53:56.052 --> 00:53:58.115
as soon as I got done reading, you know,

00:53:58.275 --> 00:53:59.858
you bring up Dr. Google and

00:54:00.458 --> 00:54:01.800
you start what it is

00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:04.425
exactly that they're accomplishing here.

00:54:04.505 --> 00:54:06.306
And you're like, oh,

00:54:06.327 --> 00:54:08.269
this makes so much more sense now.

00:54:10.898 --> 00:54:11.980
It really is a book that's

00:54:12.019 --> 00:54:12.940
built for Google,

00:54:13.081 --> 00:54:14.782
even though it was written pre-Google,

00:54:14.902 --> 00:54:16.262
because every little thing

00:54:16.682 --> 00:54:19.465
is a rabbit hole that goes on forever.

00:54:19.865 --> 00:54:21.367
Every little name drop,

00:54:21.407 --> 00:54:23.407
every little thing will

00:54:23.447 --> 00:54:26.550
just set you off and never return.

00:54:26.570 --> 00:54:28.711
I'm not kidding.

00:54:28.731 --> 00:54:30.172
If people are as curious as

00:54:30.233 --> 00:54:31.713
me when it's something like this,

00:54:32.114 --> 00:54:33.215
if they don't have Google

00:54:33.275 --> 00:54:35.197
up on another screen on their computer,

00:54:35.217 --> 00:54:36.438
they're like, wait a minute.

00:54:39.411 --> 00:54:41.291
That's a fucking real person.

00:54:41.552 --> 00:54:41.773
Right.

00:54:41.873 --> 00:54:42.213
Yeah.

00:54:42.373 --> 00:54:43.333
They're not doing the book

00:54:43.373 --> 00:54:45.275
justice because you really

00:54:45.974 --> 00:54:47.036
bring up Google while

00:54:47.056 --> 00:54:47.936
you're doing it and

00:54:48.117 --> 00:54:49.398
literally Google events.

00:54:49.438 --> 00:54:49.998
And you're like,

00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:52.860
this guy was really name dropping.

00:54:54.130 --> 00:54:54.369
Yeah,

00:54:54.610 --> 00:54:56.592
what's fun about it too is that's

00:54:56.693 --> 00:54:59.777
part of the charm of his

00:54:59.836 --> 00:55:02.960
writing is that sometimes

00:55:02.981 --> 00:55:04.001
you'll get to a point where

00:55:04.141 --> 00:55:06.385
it's so ridiculous that you look it up.

00:55:06.764 --> 00:55:07.827
And when it turns out that

00:55:07.867 --> 00:55:09.548
that ridiculous thing is true,

00:55:09.889 --> 00:55:10.889
you then start to look at

00:55:10.909 --> 00:55:12.072
the other stuff where you were like,

00:55:13.052 --> 00:55:14.612
Well, clearly that's not serious.

00:55:14.733 --> 00:55:15.532
And then you start to look

00:55:15.552 --> 00:55:16.833
at it differently because

00:55:17.114 --> 00:55:17.994
sometimes it does.

00:55:18.114 --> 00:55:19.094
Sometimes the weird stuff

00:55:19.114 --> 00:55:21.675
does turn out to have a basis in reality.

00:55:21.974 --> 00:55:24.235
If not truth, it has a basis in reality.

00:55:24.255 --> 00:55:25.637
Yep.

00:55:25.677 --> 00:55:26.356
Like even...

00:55:27.365 --> 00:55:27.746
Oh, I'm sorry.

00:55:27.766 --> 00:55:28.146
Go ahead.

00:55:28.407 --> 00:55:30.148
No, go ahead.

00:55:30.168 --> 00:55:30.449
Go ahead.

00:55:30.509 --> 00:55:30.688
Go ahead.

00:55:30.728 --> 00:55:32.369
Well, even the talking dolphin,

00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:34.492
it has a basis in reality

00:55:34.512 --> 00:55:35.373
because this was written

00:55:35.393 --> 00:55:36.492
around the time that John

00:55:36.552 --> 00:55:38.494
Lilly was trying to

00:55:38.894 --> 00:55:39.996
communicate with dolphins.

00:55:40.036 --> 00:55:40.817
And there's that famous

00:55:40.856 --> 00:55:42.739
story about them feeding

00:55:42.958 --> 00:55:44.420
LSD to dolphins and the

00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.320
lady falling in love with a dolphin.

00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.262
And they lived as a couple

00:55:48.443 --> 00:55:50.485
in a half aquatic, half...

00:55:51.025 --> 00:55:53.467
uh regular house and so like

00:55:53.586 --> 00:55:54.728
as as much as the talking

00:55:54.788 --> 00:55:56.389
dolphin is like come on

00:55:56.409 --> 00:55:58.050
that's insane there's a

00:55:58.090 --> 00:56:00.012
basis in reality you gotta

00:56:00.032 --> 00:56:00.873
think about it though this

00:56:00.893 --> 00:56:02.853
is at the time when lsd was

00:56:02.893 --> 00:56:05.657
becoming a huge drug on the streets and

00:56:06.317 --> 00:56:08.117
There was rumors of the CIA

00:56:08.137 --> 00:56:09.297
conducting experiments with

00:56:09.318 --> 00:56:11.057
people and animals using

00:56:11.278 --> 00:56:12.998
LSD and other illicit drugs.

00:56:13.478 --> 00:56:14.860
There was all these rumors,

00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:17.059
some possibly laced with truth,

00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:18.900
that was happening at this

00:56:18.940 --> 00:56:20.380
time that he wrote this book.

00:56:20.942 --> 00:56:22.742
And that's what I enjoyed

00:56:22.782 --> 00:56:24.081
about the comic book and

00:56:24.282 --> 00:56:25.123
from my research on the

00:56:25.163 --> 00:56:28.003
book is there's a lot of

00:56:28.063 --> 00:56:29.423
truth here and a lot of

00:56:29.463 --> 00:56:31.445
things that people believed were rumored.

00:56:31.945 --> 00:56:33.264
But you could easily just as

00:56:33.405 --> 00:56:35.106
much Google it now and realize that

00:56:35.983 --> 00:56:37.347
there's truth behind that.

00:56:38.210 --> 00:56:39.514
Even though the in and out

00:56:39.534 --> 00:56:40.697
of self is not real,

00:56:40.737 --> 00:56:42.039
but there's some truth in there.

00:56:42.969 --> 00:56:44.010
And then to return to our

00:56:44.050 --> 00:56:45.269
friend Kerry Thornley,

00:56:45.771 --> 00:56:48.090
who at the time that the

00:56:48.271 --> 00:56:49.851
novel was conceived was

00:56:51.112 --> 00:56:52.192
very upset that he was

00:56:52.251 --> 00:56:53.911
being accused of being

00:56:53.952 --> 00:56:56.253
involved with Lee Harvey Oswald,

00:56:56.893 --> 00:56:59.934
years down the road decides that he was,

00:57:00.273 --> 00:57:02.134
and he was mind controlled

00:57:02.253 --> 00:57:03.373
and forgot about it.

00:57:03.793 --> 00:57:07.094
So he succumbed to, you know,

00:57:07.135 --> 00:57:08.954
kind of the pressure of the

00:57:09.014 --> 00:57:11.476
moment and his mental health kind of

00:57:12.175 --> 00:57:14.297
became such that he was open

00:57:14.317 --> 00:57:15.737
to the suggestion that he

00:57:15.757 --> 00:57:16.577
was basically like a

00:57:16.657 --> 00:57:18.518
manchurian candidate guy

00:57:19.018 --> 00:57:20.797
and then so robert anton

00:57:20.838 --> 00:57:24.079
wilson right so so robert

00:57:24.099 --> 00:57:24.980
anton wilson is trying to

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:26.260
like calm him down and be

00:57:26.300 --> 00:57:28.460
like come on you know that

00:57:28.681 --> 00:57:29.440
you that you weren't

00:57:29.460 --> 00:57:30.940
involved in this and you

00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:32.782
were you lived here you did this

00:57:33.442 --> 00:57:35.545
And so then Kerry Thornley is like, well,

00:57:35.885 --> 00:57:37.146
Robert Anton Wilson is in

00:57:37.246 --> 00:57:39.429
on it and he's my CIA handler.

00:57:39.951 --> 00:57:41.552
And so he eventually thought

00:57:41.592 --> 00:57:43.436
that Mr. Wilson was

00:57:43.496 --> 00:57:46.179
involved in the Kennedy assassination.

00:57:47.193 --> 00:57:48.195
Wilson had to move his

00:57:48.275 --> 00:57:50.496
family because Thornley was

00:57:50.556 --> 00:57:51.777
off his rocker and was

00:57:51.817 --> 00:57:53.697
showing up at the house half-crazed.

00:57:56.380 --> 00:58:01.403
He created a religion where

00:58:01.443 --> 00:58:04.045
you worship the goddess of chaos.

00:58:05.626 --> 00:58:06.786
In his later years,

00:58:06.827 --> 00:58:08.007
he said if he knew it was

00:58:08.047 --> 00:58:09.088
all going to come true,

00:58:09.409 --> 00:58:10.429
he would have created a

00:58:10.489 --> 00:58:11.971
religion around Aphrodite

00:58:12.471 --> 00:58:13.231
instead of Ares.

00:58:18.034 --> 00:58:23.456
oh that is that's awesome I

00:58:23.496 --> 00:58:24.757
like his thinking though I

00:58:24.777 --> 00:58:27.440
like it yeah for sure yeah

00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:29.079
and even even as he like

00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:29.940
kind of went through

00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:31.762
various contortions of what

00:58:31.802 --> 00:58:33.402
he believed was true he

00:58:33.603 --> 00:58:35.423
kind of maintained his uh

00:58:35.483 --> 00:58:36.744
his sense of humor and his

00:58:36.764 --> 00:58:38.204
kind of whimsy at least at

00:58:38.244 --> 00:58:41.126
times um very very interesting guy yeah

00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:42.418
All right,

00:58:42.438 --> 00:58:43.800
so let's tell everybody what

00:58:43.820 --> 00:58:47.521
they can expect from issue two,

00:58:47.862 --> 00:58:49.141
not just from the book itself,

00:58:49.242 --> 00:58:50.503
but from the Kickstarter.

00:58:51.063 --> 00:58:52.043
What are y'all making

00:58:52.083 --> 00:58:53.583
available to everybody when

00:58:53.603 --> 00:58:55.344
they go and back issue two

00:58:55.545 --> 00:58:57.005
of Tales of the Illuminatus?

00:58:57.798 --> 00:58:58.119
Sure,

00:58:58.478 --> 00:59:00.701
so I'm kind of a bare bones

00:59:01.061 --> 00:59:02.340
Kickstarter person still

00:59:02.382 --> 00:59:03.161
because I would just want

00:59:03.181 --> 00:59:04.762
to make sure that I can get

00:59:04.802 --> 00:59:05.842
the books done and I can

00:59:05.882 --> 00:59:06.704
get them delivered.

00:59:06.784 --> 00:59:09.704
So I don't do, at this point yet,

00:59:09.724 --> 00:59:10.726
maybe down the road I will,

00:59:10.806 --> 00:59:12.186
I don't really do the bells and whistles.

00:59:12.987 --> 00:59:15.509
So it's, we're going back to,

00:59:15.528 --> 00:59:16.469
so we sold out,

00:59:16.989 --> 00:59:17.730
I'm very proud of this

00:59:17.769 --> 00:59:19.490
because I mentioned before

00:59:19.590 --> 00:59:20.550
how you used to have to get

00:59:20.570 --> 00:59:21.572
a thousand books printed

00:59:21.592 --> 00:59:22.251
and they would sit in your

00:59:22.331 --> 00:59:23.273
garage forever and ever.

00:59:23.932 --> 00:59:25.213
We sold out of the first

00:59:25.273 --> 00:59:26.735
printing of issue one

00:59:27.574 --> 00:59:28.695
And then so we went back.

00:59:29.976 --> 00:59:30.376
Yes.

00:59:30.556 --> 00:59:30.916
Oh, yeah.

00:59:30.936 --> 00:59:31.637
That was that.

00:59:31.677 --> 00:59:32.898
You know why that was important to me?

00:59:33.257 --> 00:59:35.239
Because it's I'm really

00:59:35.278 --> 00:59:36.400
embracing the nineteen

00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:37.619
seventies aesthetic.

00:59:37.980 --> 00:59:38.721
And I love, you know,

00:59:38.740 --> 00:59:40.161
those old Conan books like

00:59:40.202 --> 00:59:41.322
the big giant Conan.

00:59:41.342 --> 00:59:42.342
They still make them.

00:59:42.382 --> 00:59:44.003
They still produce them that way.

00:59:45.123 --> 00:59:46.965
And if you ever read American Splendor,

00:59:47.304 --> 00:59:48.306
the Harvey Peacock book.

00:59:49.606 --> 00:59:51.307
um another like magazine

00:59:51.347 --> 00:59:53.208
size and then also uh will

00:59:53.329 --> 00:59:55.070
eisner's the spirit uh back

00:59:55.110 --> 00:59:56.030
in the day they used to do

00:59:56.070 --> 00:59:57.831
those magazines I know uh

00:59:57.871 --> 00:59:59.192
the current run of conan is

00:59:59.213 --> 01:00:00.934
the the magazine size

01:00:00.974 --> 01:00:03.054
distillery media is doing

01:00:03.114 --> 01:00:05.235
okay yeah oh I love it I

01:00:05.295 --> 01:00:08.898
love it this one is the new

01:00:08.958 --> 01:00:10.980
uh mouse guard uh which is

01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:13.981
you know it just dropped this week

01:00:14.829 --> 01:00:17.072
but it's the miniature magazine size.

01:00:17.351 --> 01:00:18.552
That's why it's in a magazine.

01:00:19.253 --> 01:00:19.673
I like it.

01:00:19.735 --> 01:00:19.894
Yeah.

01:00:19.914 --> 01:00:21.456
But it's only a quarter size

01:00:21.496 --> 01:00:22.896
and it's always been done this way.

01:00:23.418 --> 01:00:24.259
They do it this way on

01:00:24.298 --> 01:00:25.380
purpose because it's about

01:00:25.420 --> 01:00:26.320
a mouse and it's small.

01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:26.521
I like it.

01:00:26.541 --> 01:00:27.121
Yeah.

01:00:27.280 --> 01:00:29.123
Cool.

01:00:29.182 --> 01:00:29.483
Yeah.

01:00:29.503 --> 01:00:31.244
But, and then, uh,

01:00:31.670 --> 01:00:33.371
Kevin Eastman's new The Last

01:00:33.432 --> 01:00:35.916
Ronin is done magazine size as well.

01:00:35.996 --> 01:00:39.260
So we are seeing more books

01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:41.764
done magazine size here in

01:00:41.963 --> 01:00:43.606
the last two or three years

01:00:43.646 --> 01:00:47.010
since I really started collecting again.

01:00:47.072 --> 01:00:48.313
You do see some.

01:00:48.974 --> 01:00:50.715
It lets you spread out a

01:00:50.775 --> 01:00:51.817
little bit more and it lets

01:00:51.836 --> 01:00:54.139
you just kind of like pack

01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:55.340
more onto the page.

01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:57.661
I got really into the Chris

01:00:57.681 --> 01:01:02.045
Claremont X-Men as I was making this.

01:01:02.226 --> 01:01:03.626
And like they would the

01:01:03.746 --> 01:01:05.969
amount of action they would

01:01:06.028 --> 01:01:07.329
pack on a page.

01:01:07.570 --> 01:01:08.490
It takes you forty five

01:01:08.532 --> 01:01:09.833
minutes to read one of those books.

01:01:10.313 --> 01:01:11.853
These days it takes you seven minutes,

01:01:11.873 --> 01:01:12.713
like a, uh,

01:01:13.793 --> 01:01:15.175
like I remember reading the

01:01:15.255 --> 01:01:16.416
old Warren Ellis Moon

01:01:16.436 --> 01:01:18.436
Knight books and it would take me three,

01:01:18.617 --> 01:01:19.976
three minutes to read an issue.

01:01:20.757 --> 01:01:22.038
Whereas, uh, and they were great.

01:01:22.057 --> 01:01:22.697
They were beautiful.

01:01:22.757 --> 01:01:23.998
They were composed so well,

01:01:24.318 --> 01:01:25.199
but reading those Chris

01:01:25.219 --> 01:01:26.739
Claremont X-Men books is

01:01:26.780 --> 01:01:28.541
just like every page is

01:01:28.561 --> 01:01:30.922
just like it's seven panels

01:01:30.981 --> 01:01:32.501
and every panel has every

01:01:32.541 --> 01:01:33.583
single character in it.

01:01:33.902 --> 01:01:34.422
And so there's just

01:01:34.443 --> 01:01:35.664
something about like just

01:01:35.704 --> 01:01:36.483
packing everything in.

01:01:36.503 --> 01:01:38.585
Um, so that's really cool.

01:01:39.768 --> 01:01:41.135
so we went back for a second

01:01:41.175 --> 01:01:42.480
printing and we're just

01:01:42.541 --> 01:01:44.608
about out of that notice that one

01:01:46.728 --> 01:01:47.108
Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:01:47.128 --> 01:01:49.449
This is I'm like, I want to get Oh, yeah,

01:01:49.489 --> 01:01:49.969
for sure.

01:01:50.251 --> 01:01:51.291
This is Todd purse,

01:01:51.331 --> 01:01:52.592
the other artist on the book.

01:01:53.253 --> 01:01:54.134
This is his cover.

01:01:54.713 --> 01:01:55.855
And then so we're going back

01:01:56.034 --> 01:01:57.835
to press with the Kickstarter.

01:01:57.856 --> 01:01:59.217
So if you missed issue one,

01:01:59.818 --> 01:02:00.557
we have a third,

01:02:00.958 --> 01:02:02.760
a third variant cover coming out.

01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:05.842
That's being drawn right now.

01:02:06.463 --> 01:02:08.023
So you can get issues one

01:02:08.364 --> 01:02:10.545
and issues to a lot of

01:02:10.565 --> 01:02:11.686
people like to get doubles.

01:02:12.027 --> 01:02:13.648
So that was a thing that got

01:02:13.827 --> 01:02:14.668
requested a lot.

01:02:15.797 --> 01:02:17.099
I don't too much care about doubles,

01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:19.182
but if I'm going to dive into something,

01:02:19.762 --> 01:02:21.726
if the first one is available,

01:02:21.806 --> 01:02:22.766
I do like to just go ahead

01:02:22.786 --> 01:02:23.748
and grab that too because I

01:02:23.847 --> 01:02:26.490
love physical boats, the smell,

01:02:26.510 --> 01:02:26.692
the paint.

01:02:26.711 --> 01:02:26.911
Oh, yeah.

01:02:27.012 --> 01:02:28.172
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:28.253 --> 01:02:30.876
Everything about it is like...

01:02:31.416 --> 01:02:33.219
like I was speaking to you

01:02:33.259 --> 01:02:34.619
about earlier with when I

01:02:34.659 --> 01:02:35.820
was we did we just

01:02:35.860 --> 01:02:36.822
interviewed bruno on

01:02:36.922 --> 01:02:40.025
saturday morning and uh his

01:02:40.065 --> 01:02:41.286
covers were like these

01:02:41.367 --> 01:02:42.887
amazingly beautiful

01:02:43.108 --> 01:02:44.929
abstract sci-fi things I'm

01:02:44.949 --> 01:02:46.192
like dude you know how cool

01:02:46.211 --> 01:02:47.032
this would be if it was a

01:02:47.132 --> 01:02:49.394
virgin variant he was like

01:02:49.635 --> 01:02:50.775
I haven't considered it I'm

01:02:50.815 --> 01:02:51.496
like dude you should

01:02:51.516 --> 01:02:52.438
probably think about that

01:02:52.538 --> 01:02:54.699
one yeah absolutely amazing

01:02:55.503 --> 01:02:56.862
And then he hit me back, like,

01:02:57.003 --> 01:02:57.643
a few days later.

01:02:57.684 --> 01:02:59.224
He's like, yeah, you're right.

01:02:59.244 --> 01:03:02.684
I get bright ideas sometimes, buddy.

01:03:02.704 --> 01:03:03.085
Yeah, for sure.

01:03:03.105 --> 01:03:05.806
Yeah, no, there's something about that.

01:03:06.485 --> 01:03:07.706
The physical copy and the

01:03:07.847 --> 01:03:09.947
smell and just the turn of the page.

01:03:09.987 --> 01:03:10.646
The whole thing.

01:03:11.547 --> 01:03:12.748
The way it sounds.

01:03:13.248 --> 01:03:14.088
Absolutely.

01:03:14.289 --> 01:03:14.489
I know.

01:03:14.949 --> 01:03:15.528
And that's another thing

01:03:15.548 --> 01:03:17.349
about doing it magazine size and just,

01:03:17.389 --> 01:03:19.390
like, the –

01:03:19.286 --> 01:03:19.865
In a way,

01:03:21.527 --> 01:03:23.608
the production of a physical item

01:03:24.128 --> 01:03:27.608
is half the fun of this.

01:03:28.389 --> 01:03:31.110
Doing art online, it's fun, it's great,

01:03:31.490 --> 01:03:33.170
but there's something about

01:03:33.311 --> 01:03:35.532
having a physical object, mailing it,

01:03:35.771 --> 01:03:38.193
packaging it up and mailing it to people,

01:03:38.253 --> 01:03:39.733
and then taking it to comic

01:03:39.753 --> 01:03:41.273
cons and meeting people.

01:03:41.614 --> 01:03:42.974
There's just something about

01:03:43.054 --> 01:03:43.875
the production of a

01:03:43.914 --> 01:03:45.416
physical object that is so fun.

01:03:46.275 --> 01:03:47.356
So we're talking about

01:03:47.436 --> 01:03:48.597
magazine-sized books.

01:03:49.139 --> 01:03:50.380
This is off the topic and

01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:51.239
off the wall here.

01:03:51.860 --> 01:03:54.222
Penthouse started doing comic books again,

01:03:54.603 --> 01:03:56.824
and theirs as well are magazine-sized.

01:03:57.204 --> 01:03:57.786
Oh, that's awesome.

01:03:58.045 --> 01:03:59.987
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:00.007 --> 01:04:01.548
Some of the greatest

01:04:01.588 --> 01:04:02.789
illustrators of all time

01:04:03.489 --> 01:04:04.251
spend time there.

01:04:04.291 --> 01:04:05.652
So that's a good thing that

01:04:05.672 --> 01:04:07.552
they're getting back into it.

01:04:07.592 --> 01:04:08.773
And some of the greatest

01:04:08.813 --> 01:04:10.295
artists are still doing their work there.

01:04:10.876 --> 01:04:11.637
That's outstanding.

01:04:11.657 --> 01:04:15.219
The modern guys, like they're, they're,

01:04:15.358 --> 01:04:15.599
you know,

01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:16.679
doing the artwork for these

01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:17.920
stories and you're like,

01:04:18.460 --> 01:04:19.981
you can almost see like, like, Oh,

01:04:20.001 --> 01:04:20.862
that's this person.

01:04:21.382 --> 01:04:22.483
Oh, how do you know it's that person?

01:04:22.503 --> 01:04:23.943
I'm like, Oh, I just know the art style.

01:04:24.664 --> 01:04:24.844
You know,

01:04:24.965 --> 01:04:26.005
that's one of my favorite things

01:04:26.045 --> 01:04:26.485
in the world.

01:04:26.585 --> 01:04:26.865
Yeah.

01:04:27.045 --> 01:04:28.086
Yeah.

01:04:28.106 --> 01:04:28.987
It's like a peach.

01:04:29.007 --> 01:04:30.889
My moco does a cover, you know,

01:04:30.929 --> 01:04:31.849
it's a peach, my moco, you know,

01:04:32.028 --> 01:04:32.550
immediately.

01:04:32.750 --> 01:04:32.989
Yep.

01:04:33.010 --> 01:04:34.471
She does not need to sign it.

01:04:34.911 --> 01:04:37.552
David Nakayama, the same way, Jim Lee,

01:04:38.751 --> 01:04:39.731
Yeah, absolutely.

01:04:40.353 --> 01:04:41.572
I got the Jim Lee cover on

01:04:41.592 --> 01:04:43.934
the new Batman Hush because

01:04:43.954 --> 01:04:45.514
Hush is back in Batman.

01:04:45.534 --> 01:04:46.534
They're doing another run.

01:04:47.275 --> 01:04:48.876
It's like issue one eighty

01:04:48.916 --> 01:04:49.896
six or something like that.

01:04:49.916 --> 01:04:50.255
Weird.

01:04:50.735 --> 01:04:51.677
I don't collect Batman

01:04:52.197 --> 01:04:53.516
unless it's something off the wall.

01:04:54.438 --> 01:04:56.237
But I missed the first run of Hush.

01:04:56.878 --> 01:04:57.119
I'm like,

01:04:57.139 --> 01:04:58.539
I'm not missing another run of Hush.

01:04:58.579 --> 01:05:00.199
So I told Scott my.

01:05:01.052 --> 01:05:02.793
my uh lcs so I'm like dude I

01:05:02.833 --> 01:05:04.393
won't hush that's it he's

01:05:04.414 --> 01:05:05.094
like you don't even flip

01:05:05.114 --> 01:05:05.894
that man I'm like I know

01:05:05.934 --> 01:05:08.014
but I won't hush yeah yeah

01:05:08.034 --> 01:05:09.695
yeah I love yeah you know

01:05:09.815 --> 01:05:10.996
and that that initial run

01:05:11.016 --> 01:05:13.416
was so fun too it was and I

01:05:13.436 --> 01:05:14.557
haven't intrigued paperback

01:05:14.838 --> 01:05:17.199
so I mean I have it but

01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:18.259
something about single

01:05:18.378 --> 01:05:21.539
issues yes for sure people

01:05:21.579 --> 01:05:22.619
don't get it when I talk

01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:23.541
about comic books and

01:05:23.561 --> 01:05:24.661
they're like dude you're

01:05:24.701 --> 01:05:25.621
treating this like it's I'm

01:05:25.641 --> 01:05:27.001
like it is like you don't

01:05:27.021 --> 01:05:27.802
understand it's like when

01:05:27.822 --> 01:05:28.681
you go to the bookstore and

01:05:28.702 --> 01:05:30.123
you buy a new book and you're just like

01:05:33.181 --> 01:05:33.882
You know what I'm saying?

01:05:33.902 --> 01:05:34.824
Or an old bookstore,

01:05:34.844 --> 01:05:36.927
that smell in the old bookstore.

01:05:37.307 --> 01:05:38.590
And people are like, dude, that's weird.

01:05:38.630 --> 01:05:40.653
I'm like, yeah, but it smells wonderful.

01:05:40.673 --> 01:05:41.856
You don't have to do that

01:05:41.876 --> 01:05:43.539
unless you go in there.

01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:44.701
So...

01:05:47.661 --> 01:05:48.181
At some point,

01:05:48.221 --> 01:05:49.242
I want to find someone that

01:05:49.282 --> 01:05:51.083
will do good prints on

01:05:51.963 --> 01:05:53.164
newsprint again because

01:05:53.204 --> 01:05:54.626
there's something about that.

01:05:55.166 --> 01:05:56.789
That would be really cool.

01:05:57.668 --> 01:06:02.072
That textured paper is so magical.

01:06:03.074 --> 01:06:03.474
The sound of it.

01:06:04.755 --> 01:06:06.097
The there's nothing I like

01:06:06.137 --> 01:06:08.699
more than flat colors on a

01:06:08.798 --> 01:06:10.019
good textured paper.

01:06:10.300 --> 01:06:11.420
I think it just there's

01:06:11.440 --> 01:06:12.581
something something that

01:06:12.621 --> 01:06:13.943
those gradients and those

01:06:13.983 --> 01:06:16.445
that the painting rendering

01:06:16.485 --> 01:06:17.907
will never capture is just

01:06:17.967 --> 01:06:19.889
that that weird, random,

01:06:19.929 --> 01:06:23.010
chaotic newsprint grain

01:06:23.791 --> 01:06:25.974
underneath bright colors.

01:06:26.054 --> 01:06:27.275
I just absolutely love it.

01:06:27.454 --> 01:06:27.974
So, you know,

01:06:27.994 --> 01:06:29.175
it's funny because I was

01:06:29.195 --> 01:06:31.157
telling you earlier, you know,

01:06:31.177 --> 01:06:33.539
Comic-Con tomorrow and Luana Vecchio,

01:06:34.119 --> 01:06:37.880
I think she's from France, I want to say.

01:06:38.641 --> 01:06:39.882
She's doing Lovesick right now.

01:06:40.822 --> 01:06:42.583
Like the finale just come out this week,

01:06:42.623 --> 01:06:43.965
which is what I'm going to have signed.

01:06:44.905 --> 01:06:46.547
But she uses a lot of pinks

01:06:46.606 --> 01:06:48.967
and blacks and dark tones

01:06:48.987 --> 01:06:51.889
with pink and shades of pink.

01:06:52.621 --> 01:06:54.362
And it reminds me of the older stuff,

01:06:54.382 --> 01:06:55.382
like the old school.

01:06:55.623 --> 01:06:56.643
Yeah, yeah.

01:06:56.663 --> 01:06:58.244
The colors were very basic.

01:06:58.364 --> 01:06:59.384
It was either black and

01:06:59.403 --> 01:07:00.625
grayscale or black and

01:07:00.684 --> 01:07:03.965
white with hints of color mixed in,

01:07:04.005 --> 01:07:04.686
but not a lot.

01:07:05.206 --> 01:07:06.586
But she uses pink as kind of

01:07:06.606 --> 01:07:08.347
like the backgrounds of it

01:07:08.927 --> 01:07:09.947
with the blacks and the

01:07:09.987 --> 01:07:11.447
darker tones on the front

01:07:11.507 --> 01:07:13.268
of the pink with the

01:07:13.309 --> 01:07:14.349
characters in the book.

01:07:15.030 --> 01:07:16.789
And it just works out so

01:07:16.889 --> 01:07:21.211
perfectly that it's very color rich.

01:07:22.438 --> 01:07:24.699
But it's still very, it's three colors,

01:07:24.780 --> 01:07:26.021
four colors on a page.

01:07:26.041 --> 01:07:27.362
And it's just so vibrant the

01:07:27.382 --> 01:07:28.081
way everything,

01:07:28.963 --> 01:07:30.344
the violence that's in the book,

01:07:30.443 --> 01:07:33.106
the way it is off the pink, to me,

01:07:33.166 --> 01:07:35.688
it's just like phenomenal.

01:07:35.987 --> 01:07:37.108
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:37.208 --> 01:07:37.789
How did you come,

01:07:37.869 --> 01:07:38.949
how did you think of this?

01:07:38.989 --> 01:07:39.971
It is amazing.

01:07:40.672 --> 01:07:42.072
And that's another one of

01:07:42.092 --> 01:07:44.494
those just little nuances

01:07:44.514 --> 01:07:47.476
that certain artists bring to their work.

01:07:47.556 --> 01:07:48.958
You know, it's defining moments.

01:07:50.150 --> 01:07:51.010
That's one of my favorite

01:07:51.030 --> 01:07:52.032
things to walk around the

01:07:52.052 --> 01:07:53.552
cons and just see the

01:07:53.713 --> 01:07:56.514
endless variety of innovation.

01:07:57.054 --> 01:07:58.454
And just like when you walk

01:07:58.474 --> 01:07:58.974
around and it's like,

01:07:59.074 --> 01:08:00.034
I never would have thought of that.

01:08:00.235 --> 01:08:02.675
I know like the, the clever, like, uh,

01:08:02.996 --> 01:08:05.597
like, uh, holdings and like the,

01:08:05.677 --> 01:08:06.838
the different ways people

01:08:07.217 --> 01:08:08.838
will produce the books or

01:08:08.858 --> 01:08:10.820
just the art style or the concept.

01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:13.601
It's when, when I walk around, um,

01:08:13.940 --> 01:08:15.021
like the small press expo,

01:08:15.862 --> 01:08:17.181
it feels like I'm walking

01:08:17.202 --> 01:08:18.483
around the multiverse and

01:08:18.502 --> 01:08:20.162
just seeing all these

01:08:20.203 --> 01:08:21.382
different worlds that are

01:08:21.422 --> 01:08:23.783
just completely unique and

01:08:23.844 --> 01:08:25.564
just uh things I never

01:08:25.583 --> 01:08:26.465
would have thought of and

01:08:26.505 --> 01:08:27.744
it's just you go from one

01:08:27.805 --> 01:08:29.104
to another to another to

01:08:29.164 --> 01:08:31.845
another and just I don't I

01:08:31.865 --> 01:08:33.046
don't think the comic world

01:08:33.086 --> 01:08:34.527
has ever been this vibrant

01:08:34.947 --> 01:08:35.806
I don't think it's ever

01:08:35.846 --> 01:08:39.307
been has this populated last talent and

01:08:40.247 --> 01:08:42.309
have been explosive and I've

01:08:42.448 --> 01:08:44.130
been here for every minute of it.

01:08:44.470 --> 01:08:46.451
It's been so fun watching

01:08:47.292 --> 01:08:48.532
just the evolution over the

01:08:48.572 --> 01:08:49.412
last three years.

01:08:49.432 --> 01:08:50.172
And we're not talking a

01:08:50.252 --> 01:08:51.673
decade here or five years.

01:08:51.694 --> 01:08:53.134
We're talking like the last year,

01:08:53.694 --> 01:08:54.475
three years.

01:08:54.914 --> 01:08:57.055
The evolution of comic books as a whole,

01:08:57.976 --> 01:08:59.658
different thinkers, different minds,

01:08:59.698 --> 01:09:00.957
different types of art that

01:09:00.997 --> 01:09:02.338
have come into the medium

01:09:03.198 --> 01:09:04.380
has been phenomenal.

01:09:05.122 --> 01:09:06.444
I'm looking forward to what

01:09:06.703 --> 01:09:08.024
what else is out there you

01:09:08.045 --> 01:09:09.786
know sure for sure because

01:09:09.805 --> 01:09:11.488
you know it's just it

01:09:11.507 --> 01:09:13.729
didn't evolve for so long

01:09:14.510 --> 01:09:15.970
from the golden age silver

01:09:16.070 --> 01:09:18.832
age to like here recently

01:09:18.893 --> 01:09:20.413
nothing involved to me it

01:09:20.434 --> 01:09:22.935
was just it was there it

01:09:22.956 --> 01:09:24.697
was the same you know

01:09:25.317 --> 01:09:27.139
basically artist you know

01:09:27.158 --> 01:09:29.319
doing all the books uh

01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:30.461
image come along and kind

01:09:30.501 --> 01:09:31.641
of change that a lot

01:09:32.610 --> 01:09:33.671
when they were like,

01:09:34.391 --> 01:09:35.971
cause they will publish you.

01:09:36.393 --> 01:09:37.512
They will keep so much of

01:09:37.533 --> 01:09:39.314
the money to pay for them publishing you,

01:09:39.354 --> 01:09:40.333
but you make the money.

01:09:41.134 --> 01:09:41.395
Yeah.

01:09:41.454 --> 01:09:42.095
No images.

01:09:42.175 --> 01:09:42.734
Like one of the,

01:09:43.234 --> 01:09:45.216
the greatest innovations in

01:09:46.095 --> 01:09:47.296
comics that could ever happen.

01:09:47.737 --> 01:09:48.216
Entertainment.

01:09:48.256 --> 01:09:49.377
Even that was like the first

01:09:49.438 --> 01:09:51.519
real evolution to me of

01:09:51.559 --> 01:09:53.158
comic books is when image started,

01:09:53.538 --> 01:09:54.380
you know, doing that.

01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:56.541
And now within the last three years,

01:09:56.581 --> 01:09:58.501
we've seen that image again,

01:09:58.560 --> 01:09:59.481
leading the forefront of

01:09:59.502 --> 01:10:02.023
that when they brought in sky bound and,

01:10:02.949 --> 01:10:04.251
We're talking now almost a

01:10:04.310 --> 01:10:07.391
trillion dollar enterprise there.

01:10:08.112 --> 01:10:08.893
It's amazing.

01:10:09.752 --> 01:10:13.113
Think about Invincible, The Walking Dead,

01:10:13.194 --> 01:10:14.435
Transformers, G.I.

01:10:14.494 --> 01:10:15.194
Joe now.

01:10:16.456 --> 01:10:21.858
And it's the creators doing it.

01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:23.759
It is.

01:10:25.420 --> 01:10:27.461
Ghost Machine now is with Image,

01:10:27.980 --> 01:10:29.801
but Ghost Machine is like its own team,

01:10:29.841 --> 01:10:30.641
Tiny Onion.

01:10:31.505 --> 01:10:32.824
know all these you know with

01:10:32.845 --> 01:10:34.586
james tinian like all these

01:10:34.626 --> 01:10:35.845
people have their they're

01:10:35.886 --> 01:10:36.707
like I'm going to start a

01:10:36.726 --> 01:10:38.907
publishing company and then

01:10:40.087 --> 01:10:41.667
all the big guys image boom

01:10:41.688 --> 01:10:43.408
studios are like hey I'll

01:10:43.429 --> 01:10:44.548
take that book or hey I'll

01:10:44.569 --> 01:10:46.229
take that book and they'll

01:10:46.329 --> 01:10:47.770
they'll they print it for

01:10:47.789 --> 01:10:50.150
them and then they take

01:10:50.171 --> 01:10:50.970
their percentage for the

01:10:51.011 --> 01:10:52.612
print and the distro but

01:10:52.671 --> 01:10:53.572
everything is coming back

01:10:53.591 --> 01:10:55.033
to the artists now and to

01:10:55.073 --> 01:10:56.993
me in the like ghost

01:10:57.012 --> 01:10:58.974
machine it's artists it's pencilers it's

01:11:00.193 --> 01:11:01.613
um, drawers, you name it,

01:11:01.774 --> 01:11:02.873
Jeff Johns and that team

01:11:02.894 --> 01:11:04.694
over there are doing some amazing,

01:11:05.274 --> 01:11:06.555
amazing things.

01:11:07.395 --> 01:11:08.176
And it's probably one of my

01:11:08.235 --> 01:11:09.356
favorite things right now

01:11:09.396 --> 01:11:10.617
between ghost machine and

01:11:10.837 --> 01:11:11.837
what's James tending is

01:11:11.858 --> 01:11:12.778
dealing with tiny onion.

01:11:14.007 --> 01:11:16.890
amazing things so yeah you

01:11:16.909 --> 01:11:17.770
know it just occurs to me

01:11:17.810 --> 01:11:19.831
that uh neil adams his

01:11:19.911 --> 01:11:22.051
vision of the industry has

01:11:22.072 --> 01:11:23.613
kind of won to a certain

01:11:23.632 --> 01:11:25.913
degree that that he he he

01:11:25.953 --> 01:11:29.296
won he he like the the like

01:11:29.315 --> 01:11:31.957
kind of stultified uh

01:11:32.037 --> 01:11:34.378
extractive companies are on

01:11:34.418 --> 01:11:36.420
the decline and the

01:11:37.119 --> 01:11:39.921
individual creators are ascendant

01:11:40.301 --> 01:11:41.502
and it's it's everything he

01:11:41.523 --> 01:11:42.743
fought for it's everything

01:11:42.764 --> 01:11:43.425
he fought for it's

01:11:43.484 --> 01:11:44.625
everything he fought

01:11:44.685 --> 01:11:46.947
against and he really and

01:11:46.987 --> 01:11:48.268
like I mean because I'm

01:11:48.307 --> 01:11:49.229
sure I know there's a lot

01:11:49.248 --> 01:11:50.449
of other people but he like

01:11:50.489 --> 01:11:51.411
I feel like he was the

01:11:51.751 --> 01:11:53.912
loudest and proudest and

01:11:53.953 --> 01:11:55.453
kind of paved the way that

01:11:55.493 --> 01:11:57.395
then the image guys took it

01:11:57.496 --> 01:11:59.117
and ran with it when they

01:11:59.157 --> 01:12:01.378
had that rare opportunity

01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:02.519
because I don't think image

01:12:02.559 --> 01:12:03.859
could have worked at any

01:12:03.899 --> 01:12:05.301
other time in history as a

01:12:05.362 --> 01:12:07.863
startup todd did it at the right time

01:12:08.604 --> 01:12:09.884
at the right place,

01:12:10.645 --> 01:12:14.685
and nothing but positive results since.

01:12:15.345 --> 01:12:17.006
Yeah, for sure.

01:12:17.106 --> 01:12:17.947
Any other time,

01:12:18.627 --> 01:12:19.568
the sales wouldn't have

01:12:19.587 --> 01:12:23.288
been enough to justify them jumping ship,

01:12:23.868 --> 01:12:26.430
but it just worked out.

01:12:26.729 --> 01:12:27.850
He bet on himself,

01:12:28.850 --> 01:12:31.752
and he's not looked back since.

01:12:31.971 --> 01:12:35.252
Spawn is on to issue three hundred and...

01:12:37.412 --> 01:12:40.132
I love that.

01:12:40.153 --> 01:12:41.153
It's still only two dollars

01:12:41.172 --> 01:12:42.173
and ninety-nine cents.

01:12:42.573 --> 01:12:43.274
That's amazing.

01:12:44.634 --> 01:12:47.335
He's further along on Spawn

01:12:47.515 --> 01:12:48.994
than they were on Amazing

01:12:49.034 --> 01:12:51.195
Spider-Man when he left.

01:12:52.136 --> 01:12:52.876
That's outstanding.

01:12:53.355 --> 01:12:54.997
Him and Jim Lee's run on

01:12:55.037 --> 01:12:56.777
Amazing Spider-Man by far

01:12:57.557 --> 01:12:58.917
one of my favorite runs, period.

01:13:00.025 --> 01:13:00.947
There's something so

01:13:01.006 --> 01:13:02.448
exciting about every single

01:13:02.547 --> 01:13:04.609
one of Todd McFarlane's drawings,

01:13:04.750 --> 01:13:08.051
like especially Spider-Man.

01:13:08.091 --> 01:13:08.953
He did a bunch of those

01:13:09.033 --> 01:13:12.534
Marvel Tales covers that I

01:13:12.574 --> 01:13:13.636
wasn't around for,

01:13:13.655 --> 01:13:14.957
so I'll just see them online.

01:13:15.438 --> 01:13:17.038
And just like my blood

01:13:17.078 --> 01:13:19.060
pressure spikes every time

01:13:19.220 --> 01:13:19.980
I see one of those.

01:13:20.041 --> 01:13:22.243
It's just like there's

01:13:22.363 --> 01:13:23.583
something so... You know

01:13:23.783 --> 01:13:25.484
the famous Wolverine claw

01:13:25.505 --> 01:13:26.365
with the Hulk in it?

01:13:26.905 --> 01:13:27.567
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:27.908 --> 01:13:28.948
That's Todd McFarlane.

01:13:29.449 --> 01:13:30.452
Right, yeah, yeah.

01:13:31.372 --> 01:13:32.835
And then you look at the

01:13:32.895 --> 01:13:34.238
number of homages to his

01:13:34.278 --> 01:13:35.659
Amazing Spider-Man cover,

01:13:36.100 --> 01:13:36.981
where he's swinging through

01:13:37.002 --> 01:13:37.882
the city on the web.

01:13:38.664 --> 01:13:40.466
Think about how many covers...

01:13:41.533 --> 01:13:43.734
have done homages to that one cover.

01:13:43.755 --> 01:13:44.335
There's probably more

01:13:44.354 --> 01:13:46.176
homages to that cover than

01:13:46.377 --> 01:13:47.717
any other cover ever created.

01:13:47.738 --> 01:13:48.217
For sure.

01:13:48.838 --> 01:13:49.878
And also the weird,

01:13:50.060 --> 01:13:51.461
the one from Spider-Man eight,

01:13:51.501 --> 01:13:52.862
where he's sitting with the

01:13:53.021 --> 01:13:54.483
arm all twisted and he's

01:13:54.502 --> 01:13:56.104
sitting in the catcher's position.

01:13:56.984 --> 01:13:57.324
Yeah.

01:13:57.425 --> 01:13:59.046
Like that, you've seen that over and over,

01:13:59.487 --> 01:14:00.787
but yeah, there's something,

01:14:01.148 --> 01:14:02.088
something about the way he

01:14:02.128 --> 01:14:03.289
draws that just,

01:14:04.090 --> 01:14:04.990
even when he's just drawing

01:14:05.030 --> 01:14:06.011
something ordinary,

01:14:06.391 --> 01:14:07.672
it just kind of radiates.

01:14:07.693 --> 01:14:08.713
He's another one.

01:14:09.073 --> 01:14:10.956
He goes live on Facebook or.

01:14:11.716 --> 01:14:13.936
Instagram or YouTube or whatever.

01:14:14.037 --> 01:14:15.797
And they're like, Oh, you know,

01:14:15.837 --> 01:14:17.519
people will ask him about drawing.

01:14:17.559 --> 01:14:18.458
He's just like, Oh yeah.

01:14:18.519 --> 01:14:19.739
Hey, he starts.

01:14:19.979 --> 01:14:20.279
Yeah.

01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:21.100
Yeah.

01:14:21.300 --> 01:14:23.060
Yeah.

01:14:23.081 --> 01:14:27.222
And you're like, what?

01:14:27.302 --> 01:14:29.243
Stroke number three of your magic marker,

01:14:29.264 --> 01:14:29.444
dude.

01:14:29.463 --> 01:14:29.623
Right.

01:14:30.404 --> 01:14:30.545
Yeah.

01:14:30.685 --> 01:14:31.125
Yeah.

01:14:32.641 --> 01:14:35.363
But he's so like he's he's

01:14:35.644 --> 01:14:37.484
he's weird and he's kind of out there.

01:14:37.543 --> 01:14:39.024
But fuck if he's not one of

01:14:39.045 --> 01:14:40.865
the best in the business right now.

01:14:40.886 --> 01:14:41.466
No, for sure.

01:14:41.605 --> 01:14:42.127
For sure.

01:14:42.287 --> 01:14:44.927
He's endlessly entertaining,

01:14:45.108 --> 01:14:47.909
endlessly like innovating.

01:14:48.029 --> 01:14:49.831
Yeah, I really get a kick out of him.

01:14:50.270 --> 01:14:50.511
Yeah.

01:14:52.253 --> 01:14:53.314
I know we're completely off

01:14:53.395 --> 01:14:55.475
course here on what we're

01:14:55.494 --> 01:14:57.956
here talking about.

01:14:58.095 --> 01:14:58.917
It's actually kind of fun

01:14:58.936 --> 01:15:01.957
because most of these that

01:15:02.018 --> 01:15:03.478
I get to do are more like

01:15:03.518 --> 01:15:06.880
culture shows as opposed to comics.

01:15:08.439 --> 01:15:09.801
you're a comic book guy

01:15:10.001 --> 01:15:10.962
you're here to talk about

01:15:11.002 --> 01:15:12.582
comics for sure comic book

01:15:12.603 --> 01:15:14.384
guy yeah yeah I mean I love

01:15:14.404 --> 01:15:15.484
pop culture I do a show

01:15:15.583 --> 01:15:16.885
once a month on pop culture

01:15:16.904 --> 01:15:18.786
whether it be like you know

01:15:18.865 --> 01:15:20.346
a show that just ended like

01:15:20.367 --> 01:15:21.387
we got reacher coming up

01:15:21.408 --> 01:15:22.307
we're gonna sit down we're

01:15:22.328 --> 01:15:23.269
gonna talk about reacher

01:15:23.368 --> 01:15:24.789
the book that's that's the

01:15:24.810 --> 01:15:25.750
new series was based on

01:15:25.770 --> 01:15:26.671
we're gonna do all that

01:15:27.171 --> 01:15:27.990
we're gonna do one when

01:15:28.011 --> 01:15:29.471
daredevil comes to a close

01:15:30.372 --> 01:15:32.354
but comic books though to me that's

01:15:34.225 --> 01:15:35.207
Getting to talk to another

01:15:35.247 --> 01:15:37.390
person who knows comic books,

01:15:37.409 --> 01:15:38.671
who's in comic books,

01:15:38.810 --> 01:15:40.752
and we could go all night.

01:15:40.934 --> 01:15:42.114
I know we don't have all night,

01:15:42.215 --> 01:15:46.520
but that's what I feel the

01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:47.780
strongest about.

01:15:48.442 --> 01:15:48.983
So for me,

01:15:49.063 --> 01:15:50.243
I could just do this all night

01:15:50.264 --> 01:15:51.085
about comic books and

01:15:51.125 --> 01:15:53.386
different artists and stuff like that.

01:15:54.161 --> 01:15:54.280
Yeah,

01:15:54.360 --> 01:15:57.182
one of the things is that this is a

01:15:57.262 --> 01:15:57.863
comic book.

01:15:58.224 --> 01:15:58.764
You know what I mean?

01:15:58.824 --> 01:16:00.685
This isn't an adaptation

01:16:00.725 --> 01:16:04.368
that I would do in any form or fashion.

01:16:05.208 --> 01:16:07.030
It's made as a comic book.

01:16:07.051 --> 01:16:08.011
And it's kind of funny

01:16:08.030 --> 01:16:08.912
because I would say...

01:16:09.332 --> 01:16:10.412
Eighty percent of the

01:16:10.432 --> 01:16:11.913
people that read it probably...

01:16:13.015 --> 01:16:15.195
have read zero other comic books.

01:16:16.476 --> 01:16:17.278
It's kind of something that

01:16:17.297 --> 01:16:18.759
appeals to people outside

01:16:18.918 --> 01:16:19.998
of the comic book world.

01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:21.761
It's funny because we go

01:16:21.780 --> 01:16:22.780
back and we look at it and go,

01:16:22.881 --> 01:16:24.162
it's the Tales of the Illuminati.

01:16:24.181 --> 01:16:24.943
It's the first thing that

01:16:24.962 --> 01:16:25.863
pops into somebody's head

01:16:25.903 --> 01:16:26.844
is the Illuminati.

01:16:28.324 --> 01:16:29.225
And it's now being this

01:16:29.244 --> 01:16:30.805
cultural mainstream thing now.

01:16:30.826 --> 01:16:31.367
And they're like, ooh,

01:16:31.386 --> 01:16:32.447
that's about the Illuminati.

01:16:32.487 --> 01:16:33.148
Let me get that.

01:16:33.167 --> 01:16:34.908
I want to read that.

01:16:34.929 --> 01:16:36.489
It's perfect for you.

01:16:36.510 --> 01:16:40.912
And then when they start reading it,

01:16:40.932 --> 01:16:41.353
they're like,

01:16:42.542 --> 01:16:43.224
Wait, what?

01:16:43.824 --> 01:16:44.988
Because I'm pretty sure like

01:16:45.007 --> 01:16:47.332
until you're probably to this,

01:16:47.511 --> 01:16:48.634
this next coming up issue

01:16:48.673 --> 01:16:49.735
and probably the third, fourth,

01:16:49.777 --> 01:16:50.918
fifth issue is really when

01:16:50.958 --> 01:16:52.641
it starts to dive more into that.

01:16:54.823 --> 01:16:56.685
the Illuminati type of stuff

01:16:56.704 --> 01:16:57.786
that people can expect.

01:16:57.805 --> 01:16:58.726
For sure.

01:16:58.886 --> 01:16:59.167
Yeah.

01:16:59.226 --> 01:17:00.047
Yeah, yeah.

01:17:00.127 --> 01:17:00.307
Yeah,

01:17:00.328 --> 01:17:02.128
so we've kind of set up our premise now,

01:17:02.750 --> 01:17:03.569
and we're going to be

01:17:03.750 --> 01:17:06.311
easing into the actual, like,

01:17:06.431 --> 01:17:07.872
overarching storyline.

01:17:08.234 --> 01:17:09.274
But also what we have is,

01:17:09.635 --> 01:17:10.715
and a lot of the things you

01:17:10.756 --> 01:17:13.176
saw in those original eight pages,

01:17:13.256 --> 01:17:14.899
the opening eight pages, is,

01:17:14.958 --> 01:17:18.640
so the novel also has one of those, like,

01:17:19.662 --> 01:17:21.363
Simpsons, Springfield,

01:17:21.483 --> 01:17:23.545
giant cast subcharacters

01:17:25.305 --> 01:17:26.565
So all those characters you

01:17:26.605 --> 01:17:27.326
saw at the beginning,

01:17:27.546 --> 01:17:29.306
they all cycle back around,

01:17:29.506 --> 01:17:32.028
like your Cletus the slack-jawed yokel.

01:17:32.047 --> 01:17:37.029
They all become inhabitants of this world.

01:17:37.569 --> 01:17:40.109
It's almost like an episode of Seinfeld,

01:17:40.409 --> 01:17:42.671
where everything comes back

01:17:42.890 --> 01:17:45.171
around full circle in the end.

01:17:45.192 --> 01:17:45.511
Yeah.

01:17:45.832 --> 01:17:47.895
Um, so, so there's a lot of that.

01:17:47.914 --> 01:17:49.556
There's a lot of just like world building,

01:17:50.037 --> 01:17:52.319
um, amongst the main storyline.

01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:53.881
Uh, I should say storylines.

01:17:53.902 --> 01:17:56.865
There's a, there's very, yeah,

01:17:56.905 --> 01:17:59.689
very much a multiple storyline thing, but,

01:17:59.708 --> 01:18:00.970
but we definitely get more

01:18:01.150 --> 01:18:03.694
into the proper, like, uh,

01:18:05.065 --> 01:18:07.726
like Illuminati behind the stages,

01:18:07.747 --> 01:18:08.448
something that you would

01:18:08.488 --> 01:18:12.229
recognize as what you see in pop culture.

01:18:13.710 --> 01:18:15.251
There's a very interesting thing too.

01:18:15.411 --> 01:18:16.650
So I don't know if you noticed or not,

01:18:16.671 --> 01:18:17.811
but the main character,

01:18:17.851 --> 01:18:18.731
the main detective,

01:18:19.072 --> 01:18:20.393
his name is Saul Goodman.

01:18:21.474 --> 01:18:22.975
Yeah, I did notice that.

01:18:23.536 --> 01:18:24.436
And obviously the book

01:18:24.476 --> 01:18:27.961
predated Breaking Bad by several decades.

01:18:28.261 --> 01:18:30.363
So I assume that they are

01:18:30.404 --> 01:18:32.166
probably just making the same joke.

01:18:32.645 --> 01:18:33.768
That would be my assumption.

01:18:34.268 --> 01:18:34.427
Yeah,

01:18:34.467 --> 01:18:36.331
that's where my brain went immediately.

01:18:36.350 --> 01:18:36.711
I'm like,

01:18:37.431 --> 01:18:38.733
this came out before Breaking Bad.

01:18:38.752 --> 01:18:39.954
I wonder if they did that as

01:18:39.975 --> 01:18:41.435
kind of like a homage or like another...

01:18:42.117 --> 01:18:43.998
a joke within a joke so but

01:18:44.019 --> 01:18:44.961
there is an interesting

01:18:45.001 --> 01:18:46.542
connection between breaking

01:18:46.561 --> 01:18:48.564
bad and illuminatus which

01:18:48.604 --> 01:18:50.646
is through the x files so

01:18:50.747 --> 01:18:52.248
everyone I I don't think

01:18:52.288 --> 01:18:54.251
chris carter has ever said

01:18:54.412 --> 01:18:55.613
one way or the other but

01:18:55.832 --> 01:18:56.975
back in the nineties

01:18:57.555 --> 01:18:58.676
everyone assumed chris

01:18:58.697 --> 01:19:00.519
carter created that's files

01:19:01.043 --> 01:19:01.404
Yes.

01:19:01.505 --> 01:19:02.266
Yeah, yeah.

01:19:02.287 --> 01:19:03.750
I just want to make sure people... Oh,

01:19:03.909 --> 01:19:04.411
I'm sorry.

01:19:04.492 --> 01:19:04.731
Yes.

01:19:04.932 --> 01:19:05.252
Yeah, yeah.

01:19:05.273 --> 01:19:06.475
I guess that's older.

01:19:07.238 --> 01:19:07.537
Yeah.

01:19:07.618 --> 01:19:08.780
Yeah, that's our generation, man.

01:19:09.462 --> 01:19:09.823
Yeah, right.

01:19:09.842 --> 01:19:11.948
I still watch... I love the S-Files.

01:19:12.917 --> 01:19:14.537
So when the X-Files was first coming out,

01:19:14.677 --> 01:19:16.198
everyone assumed that it

01:19:16.238 --> 01:19:19.579
was influenced by

01:19:19.659 --> 01:19:21.039
Illuminatus because it has

01:19:21.100 --> 01:19:22.841
the same general structure.

01:19:23.121 --> 01:19:24.461
You have the two detectives

01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:27.002
on the trail of the shadowy organization.

01:19:27.362 --> 01:19:29.603
You're mixing in all the

01:19:30.622 --> 01:19:32.103
conspiracy theories of the day.

01:19:32.462 --> 01:19:34.444
It follows very much the same formula.

01:19:35.283 --> 01:19:36.645
No one's ever said one way or the other.

01:19:37.765 --> 01:19:40.568
But a young writer who got

01:19:40.627 --> 01:19:42.390
his start on the X-Files

01:19:42.670 --> 01:19:43.730
was Vince Gilligan,

01:19:44.211 --> 01:19:45.351
who would then go on to

01:19:45.412 --> 01:19:48.033
create Breaking Bad and Saul Goodman.

01:19:48.795 --> 01:19:50.036
So if,

01:19:50.475 --> 01:19:52.837
if Illuminatus did influence X-Files,

01:19:53.057 --> 01:19:54.238
then perhaps Vince Gilligan

01:19:54.279 --> 01:19:55.140
was aware of it.

01:19:55.420 --> 01:19:57.341
And perhaps it is a reference.

01:19:57.942 --> 01:19:59.863
I would say chances are against it,

01:19:59.903 --> 01:20:00.783
but it's not impossible.

01:20:01.003 --> 01:20:02.284
It's still cool to look at

01:20:02.345 --> 01:20:04.587
and form your own modern, like,

01:20:04.827 --> 01:20:06.188
you know this is based off of this,

01:20:06.207 --> 01:20:07.229
and it's based off of this, right?

01:20:07.288 --> 01:20:09.569
Right, yeah, yeah.

01:20:09.770 --> 01:20:09.909
Now,

01:20:09.930 --> 01:20:12.391
there are some things that it... So Lost,

01:20:12.572 --> 01:20:14.172
they... What is it?

01:20:15.314 --> 01:20:17.335
Damon Lindelof admits Lost

01:20:18.036 --> 01:20:19.697
is influenced by Illuminatus.

01:20:20.157 --> 01:20:21.278
And then the two big ones... No,

01:20:21.297 --> 01:20:22.018
the good seasons.

01:20:22.097 --> 01:20:22.738
The good seasons.

01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:24.560
That's right.

01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:26.161
That Room XXIII, specifically,

01:20:26.320 --> 01:20:28.542
is definitely pulled from Illuminatus.

01:20:29.622 --> 01:20:31.804
And then Alan Moore and Grant Morrison,

01:20:32.524 --> 01:20:33.085
they're kind of...

01:20:34.305 --> 01:20:35.806
You know how everyone's like, oh,

01:20:35.827 --> 01:20:37.809
they're similar and they

01:20:37.849 --> 01:20:39.850
kind of pull from a very similar world.

01:20:40.470 --> 01:20:41.652
They're both heavily,

01:20:41.692 --> 01:20:43.234
heavily and admittedly

01:20:43.594 --> 01:20:45.376
influenced by Robert Anton Wilson.

01:20:45.416 --> 01:20:46.417
So a lot of those

01:20:46.497 --> 01:20:47.997
similarities that you see

01:20:48.438 --> 01:20:49.378
in Alan Moore and Grant

01:20:49.399 --> 01:20:51.600
Morrison trace back to

01:20:51.701 --> 01:20:53.823
Illuminatus and Wilson's other work.

01:20:53.863 --> 01:20:56.024
They're both huge, huge fans.

01:20:56.564 --> 01:20:58.386
And that's where some of

01:20:58.407 --> 01:21:00.708
those strands lead back to.

01:21:00.729 --> 01:21:01.850
That's cool.

01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:03.743
But let's start wrapping it up.

01:21:04.405 --> 01:21:05.469
Let everybody know when

01:21:05.510 --> 01:21:07.175
Tells of the Illuminatus will drop.

01:21:07.255 --> 01:21:08.939
And tell everybody where they can find you,

01:21:08.979 --> 01:21:09.261
Bobby.

01:21:10.100 --> 01:21:11.921
Sure, so easiest place,

01:21:12.542 --> 01:21:13.921
the big catch-all is

01:21:13.981 --> 01:21:16.024
TalesOfIlluminatus.com.

01:21:16.703 --> 01:21:18.444
That will link you to everywhere else.

01:21:18.484 --> 01:21:20.326
We have a sub stack that's

01:21:20.386 --> 01:21:21.127
linked on there.

01:21:21.527 --> 01:21:23.047
We have a Blue Sky account

01:21:23.087 --> 01:21:24.109
that's linked on there.

01:21:24.729 --> 01:21:25.890
We have an Instagram account

01:21:25.930 --> 01:21:27.189
that you can find us through there.

01:21:27.210 --> 01:21:28.631
So everything kind of runs through.

01:21:29.152 --> 01:21:30.853
I'm trying to get more back

01:21:30.953 --> 01:21:32.873
onto personal web pages.

01:21:32.934 --> 01:21:34.534
That's why I'm framing it that way.

01:21:34.875 --> 01:21:35.295
We have one too.

01:21:36.555 --> 01:21:38.077
And I'm very proud of this.

01:21:38.176 --> 01:21:39.759
Talesofilluminatus.com,

01:21:40.198 --> 01:21:42.421
all one hundred percent hand coded.

01:21:43.002 --> 01:21:46.904
I just I wrote the HTML and CSS myself.

01:21:47.085 --> 01:21:48.707
There's no platform.

01:21:49.046 --> 01:21:51.088
It is just me writing code.

01:21:51.149 --> 01:21:52.710
That's right.

01:21:52.729 --> 01:21:54.452
Some of them know what they're doing.

01:21:56.234 --> 01:21:58.877
Yeah, so there's zero platform.

01:21:58.978 --> 01:22:01.261
It is just me writing my hack code.

01:22:03.103 --> 01:22:03.963
So we're starting the

01:22:04.003 --> 01:22:06.948
Kickstarter on Tuesday,

01:22:07.208 --> 01:22:08.289
on April Fool's Day.

01:22:08.591 --> 01:22:10.033
It's going to run for two months.

01:22:10.592 --> 01:22:11.493
We're going to do weekly

01:22:11.552 --> 01:22:12.774
updates where you're going to see,

01:22:12.814 --> 01:22:13.493
we're going to drop some of

01:22:13.533 --> 01:22:14.533
the world building stuff,

01:22:14.554 --> 01:22:15.595
some of the background stuff.

01:22:16.114 --> 01:22:19.555
We have a couple of guys,

01:22:19.876 --> 01:22:22.516
Steve Fly and Dan Robinson,

01:22:22.556 --> 01:22:23.698
who do music for us.

01:22:25.097 --> 01:22:26.179
One of the threads in the

01:22:26.238 --> 01:22:28.059
novel is about a rock

01:22:28.078 --> 01:22:30.279
concert and competing record labels.

01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:31.420
So we have a couple of

01:22:31.439 --> 01:22:32.860
people making music for us

01:22:33.161 --> 01:22:34.561
to kind of bring that world alive.

01:22:34.582 --> 01:22:35.902
I just had another

01:22:36.042 --> 01:22:36.881
Kickstarter that did

01:22:36.921 --> 01:22:38.023
something similar to that.

01:22:38.643 --> 01:22:40.304
There's an album that goes

01:22:40.344 --> 01:22:41.625
along with the comic book.

01:22:41.704 --> 01:22:42.546
It's really cool.

01:22:42.966 --> 01:22:43.186
Yeah,

01:22:43.466 --> 01:22:45.228
so we do indeed have an album that's

01:22:45.268 --> 01:22:47.090
going to be associated with this.

01:22:47.109 --> 01:22:49.752
So yeah,

01:22:49.771 --> 01:22:51.993
we'll do weekly updates for the

01:22:52.033 --> 01:22:52.953
next two months.

01:22:53.595 --> 01:22:54.315
The book should,

01:22:54.456 --> 01:22:55.997
if everything goes perfectly,

01:22:56.356 --> 01:22:58.338
it'll come out in June.

01:22:58.979 --> 01:23:01.020
If things go normally, July.

01:23:01.320 --> 01:23:03.122
And if things go terribly, August.

01:23:03.342 --> 01:23:04.844
And that's kind of my time frame.

01:23:04.863 --> 01:23:06.625
And it's...

01:23:08.257 --> 01:23:09.278
I guess this is how probably

01:23:09.297 --> 01:23:10.840
most people do Kickstarter these days.

01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:14.582
It's not like we don't need

01:23:14.622 --> 01:23:15.444
the money to make it.

01:23:16.145 --> 01:23:16.904
It's a pre-order.

01:23:17.525 --> 01:23:19.087
The book's going to come out either way.

01:23:19.927 --> 01:23:21.168
The threshold's going to be really,

01:23:21.208 --> 01:23:21.789
really low.

01:23:23.371 --> 01:23:24.532
It's really more of a pre-order.

01:23:24.551 --> 01:23:25.853
I know a lot of artists like

01:23:26.094 --> 01:23:27.194
Bruno over the weekend.

01:23:28.935 --> 01:23:29.796
He's a hundred percent

01:23:29.817 --> 01:23:31.097
funded through Kickstarter.

01:23:32.679 --> 01:23:34.501
There are some, like in your case,

01:23:34.541 --> 01:23:36.202
where you're like, yeah, absolutely.

01:23:36.601 --> 01:23:37.582
The book's going to come out.

01:23:37.603 --> 01:23:38.764
You can order it off the website,

01:23:39.123 --> 01:23:40.364
depending on the Kickstarter.

01:23:41.006 --> 01:23:42.606
But for some, like Bruno,

01:23:42.886 --> 01:23:45.569
it's a hundred percent crowdfunded,

01:23:45.989 --> 01:23:46.829
which is really cool.

01:23:47.951 --> 01:23:48.851
I appreciate people who

01:23:48.872 --> 01:23:49.832
appreciate the work that

01:23:49.872 --> 01:23:50.894
goes into these books and

01:23:50.953 --> 01:23:54.577
back Kickstarters that way.

01:23:54.737 --> 01:23:57.118
Absolutely, yeah.

01:23:57.219 --> 01:23:58.460
It's an avenue for people to

01:23:58.500 --> 01:23:59.820
put their work out there.

01:24:00.721 --> 01:24:01.721
And I will never...

01:24:02.579 --> 01:24:03.921
I will support that for as

01:24:03.961 --> 01:24:05.341
long as I humanly can.

01:24:05.403 --> 01:24:07.444
It's got to be the best

01:24:07.484 --> 01:24:09.485
thing that's ever happened to indie media,

01:24:10.447 --> 01:24:11.847
in all honesty.

01:24:12.148 --> 01:24:12.948
And when you click around,

01:24:13.288 --> 01:24:14.289
it's kind of like that thing.

01:24:15.131 --> 01:24:15.792
This has happened to me a

01:24:15.811 --> 01:24:16.893
couple times where you see

01:24:16.932 --> 01:24:18.634
a stand-up comedian and are like, oh,

01:24:18.654 --> 01:24:19.534
I've never heard of this guy.

01:24:19.814 --> 01:24:20.515
And it turns out he's

01:24:20.536 --> 01:24:22.056
selling out stadium tours.

01:24:22.096 --> 01:24:23.698
Like he's got his, this whole world.

01:24:24.038 --> 01:24:24.819
Like I was clicking through,

01:24:24.939 --> 01:24:25.460
you click through

01:24:25.520 --> 01:24:27.122
Kickstarter sometimes and you're like, oh,

01:24:27.162 --> 01:24:27.542
cool.

01:24:27.702 --> 01:24:28.963
A comic book about hockey.

01:24:29.304 --> 01:24:30.385
I wonder what that's doing.

01:24:30.765 --> 01:24:32.025
Six million dollars.

01:24:32.065 --> 01:24:33.087
And it's like,

01:24:33.347 --> 01:24:35.550
I never even heard of this

01:24:35.609 --> 01:24:37.211
book about hockey doing six

01:24:37.251 --> 01:24:37.912
million dollars.

01:24:38.032 --> 01:24:38.652
And it's just,

01:24:38.671 --> 01:24:40.094
there's all these worlds out

01:24:40.134 --> 01:24:42.055
there waiting to be discovered.

01:24:42.615 --> 01:24:44.016
Lady death just did their own.

01:24:44.457 --> 01:24:45.658
They left Kickstarter.

01:24:46.324 --> 01:24:47.046
and form their own

01:24:47.086 --> 01:24:48.167
Kickstarter through their

01:24:48.288 --> 01:24:51.835
own internet service, their own web page.

01:24:52.055 --> 01:24:52.516
Oh, nice.

01:24:52.537 --> 01:24:56.323
Kickstarter, but it's just Lady Death.

01:24:57.181 --> 01:24:57.801
That's beautiful.

01:24:58.143 --> 01:24:58.802
That's even better.

01:24:58.863 --> 01:25:01.204
That's more like the more

01:25:01.244 --> 01:25:03.447
direct you can get, I think the better.

01:25:03.546 --> 01:25:04.787
And I think that people are

01:25:04.806 --> 01:25:05.688
going to keep figuring out

01:25:05.707 --> 01:25:07.970
ways to get to cut out more

01:25:07.989 --> 01:25:09.110
and more middlemen and just

01:25:09.131 --> 01:25:12.092
get direct between creator and reader.

01:25:12.193 --> 01:25:14.194
And I think it's a beautiful thing.

01:25:14.274 --> 01:25:15.135
It's a beautiful thing.

01:25:16.155 --> 01:25:17.195
The middleman who would be

01:25:17.216 --> 01:25:18.216
taking some money off of

01:25:18.237 --> 01:25:19.238
their plates and went a

01:25:19.318 --> 01:25:22.180
hundred percent on their own, which I,

01:25:22.659 --> 01:25:24.060
again, it's one of those where I'm like,

01:25:24.081 --> 01:25:24.742
that's pretty cool.

01:25:25.958 --> 01:25:26.158
Yeah.

01:25:26.179 --> 01:25:27.943
I mean, it still goes to the stores, too.

01:25:27.962 --> 01:25:28.143
I mean,

01:25:28.162 --> 01:25:29.345
you can still buy Lady Death at

01:25:29.364 --> 01:25:30.527
your local comic shops,

01:25:31.188 --> 01:25:32.831
but you can literally get

01:25:32.871 --> 01:25:34.073
it direct from them and

01:25:34.094 --> 01:25:36.256
save yourself a couple of dollars.

01:25:37.149 --> 01:25:37.630
You know,

01:25:37.810 --> 01:25:39.730
I think I think comic people are

01:25:39.970 --> 01:25:42.730
inherently become half

01:25:42.791 --> 01:25:44.631
business people because

01:25:45.292 --> 01:25:46.351
ever since I was little,

01:25:46.692 --> 01:25:47.592
there's been the chicken

01:25:47.632 --> 01:25:49.472
little like the industry is going to end.

01:25:49.953 --> 01:25:51.613
So like ever since I was twelve years old,

01:25:51.634 --> 01:25:53.134
I'm like thinking of ideas of like,

01:25:53.154 --> 01:25:54.253
how can we save comics?

01:25:54.274 --> 01:25:55.255
How can comics work?

01:25:55.595 --> 01:25:57.175
And I think a lot of people,

01:25:57.274 --> 01:25:59.115
we got pretty close there to lose.

01:25:59.155 --> 01:25:59.416
Yeah.

01:26:00.435 --> 01:26:01.697
for sure and that's always

01:26:01.817 --> 01:26:03.257
so so there's a lot of like

01:26:03.297 --> 01:26:05.920
very uh creative uh

01:26:06.260 --> 01:26:07.341
innovations that come out

01:26:07.360 --> 01:26:08.341
of the comic industry

01:26:08.421 --> 01:26:10.063
because of that mindset so

01:26:10.302 --> 01:26:11.904
uh it's it's an interesting

01:26:11.944 --> 01:26:13.586
place to to operate because

01:26:13.605 --> 01:26:14.867
there's there's always

01:26:14.886 --> 01:26:17.068
something cooking it really

01:26:17.128 --> 01:26:18.529
isn't I always tell people

01:26:18.569 --> 01:26:19.390
there's something for

01:26:19.470 --> 01:26:20.490
everybody even your

01:26:20.530 --> 01:26:22.672
children yeah for sure and

01:26:22.693 --> 01:26:24.613
that that's that's that was

01:26:24.694 --> 01:26:25.574
uh scott mcleod you ever

01:26:25.614 --> 01:26:27.456
read um what is it uh

01:26:27.555 --> 01:26:29.518
reinventing comics by scott mcleod

01:26:31.418 --> 01:26:32.338
I haven't, but I,

01:26:32.439 --> 01:26:33.640
I know exactly what you're talking about.

01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:35.081
I know the book you're talking about.

01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:38.363
He basically predicted everything.

01:26:38.403 --> 01:26:39.844
Like he wrote the book in the year,

01:26:40.264 --> 01:26:42.905
and predicted essentially

01:26:43.225 --> 01:26:45.087
just about where we are right now.

01:26:45.507 --> 01:26:48.550
And like the explosion of genres, the,

01:26:48.569 --> 01:26:50.011
like it,

01:26:50.131 --> 01:26:52.412
not just being a delivery system

01:26:52.453 --> 01:26:53.653
for one type of story,

01:26:53.913 --> 01:26:55.073
but a delivery system for

01:26:55.295 --> 01:26:56.494
every type of story.

01:26:56.515 --> 01:26:57.876
And here's what I loved

01:26:57.916 --> 01:27:00.198
about the uprising of Indy.

01:27:00.698 --> 01:27:02.338
comics is we know it's no

01:27:02.378 --> 01:27:03.158
longer about the

01:27:03.259 --> 01:27:05.880
superheroes right villains

01:27:06.579 --> 01:27:09.782
you look at um jg jones in

01:27:09.822 --> 01:27:12.783
his new book dust to dust

01:27:12.802 --> 01:27:14.384
phenomenal thriller based

01:27:14.463 --> 01:27:16.885
out in oklahoma it's

01:27:16.925 --> 01:27:18.364
written by jg jones it's

01:27:18.505 --> 01:27:20.506
drawn by jg jones the

01:27:20.546 --> 01:27:22.167
covers are done by jg jones

01:27:22.527 --> 01:27:23.346
and there's another guy I

01:27:23.367 --> 01:27:24.207
can't remember his name

01:27:24.247 --> 01:27:25.368
who's also a really good

01:27:25.408 --> 01:27:27.128
writer himself who helps

01:27:27.168 --> 01:27:29.350
him write the book but it's a thriller

01:27:30.426 --> 01:27:32.208
And then you have people like James Tinian,

01:27:34.030 --> 01:27:36.372
who to me has redefined

01:27:36.412 --> 01:27:38.414
what we know as a hero with

01:27:38.536 --> 01:27:39.596
Erica Slaughter and

01:27:39.657 --> 01:27:40.377
something that's killing

01:27:40.396 --> 01:27:41.958
the children in the House of Slaughter.

01:27:42.859 --> 01:27:46.143
So, I mean, it's what a time to be in it,

01:27:46.162 --> 01:27:46.463
man.

01:27:47.108 --> 01:27:49.288
yeah for sure and it is like

01:27:49.328 --> 01:27:50.369
we're finally moving more

01:27:50.409 --> 01:27:51.369
towards like where they're

01:27:51.409 --> 01:27:53.712
at in um europe and in

01:27:53.832 --> 01:27:55.252
japan where these are

01:27:55.273 --> 01:27:56.393
things that everybody reads

01:27:56.693 --> 01:27:57.474
everybody reads them

01:27:57.514 --> 01:27:58.715
because everyone has

01:27:59.255 --> 01:28:00.194
something that's up their

01:28:00.336 --> 01:28:02.015
alley it's just pictures

01:28:02.055 --> 01:28:02.997
and words it's just

01:28:03.037 --> 01:28:04.757
pictures and words like it

01:28:04.778 --> 01:28:06.158
can be anything it can be

01:28:06.519 --> 01:28:08.859
anything and I'm so glad to

01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:11.162
see it becoming more things

01:28:11.502 --> 01:28:12.783
you you bring that up I had

01:28:12.863 --> 01:28:14.222
a friend of mine from work he we

01:28:15.728 --> 01:28:16.868
we have kids around the same

01:28:17.029 --> 01:28:18.930
age and we were talking with it.

01:28:18.970 --> 01:28:19.289
He's like, yeah,

01:28:19.310 --> 01:28:20.850
my daughter's interested in manga.

01:28:21.070 --> 01:28:22.471
I'm like, okay, let her read it.

01:28:22.492 --> 01:28:24.372
He's like, well, what is it?

01:28:24.393 --> 01:28:26.494
My dude is a comic book essentially.

01:28:26.515 --> 01:28:27.194
Yeah.

01:28:27.454 --> 01:28:30.237
Like he's like, but you know, she needs to,

01:28:30.317 --> 01:28:31.818
I'm like, dude, just let her read.

01:28:32.519 --> 01:28:32.838
Yeah.

01:28:32.979 --> 01:28:33.118
Yeah.

01:28:33.279 --> 01:28:33.738
Yeah.

01:28:33.779 --> 01:28:34.520
Reading is reading.

01:28:35.761 --> 01:28:36.600
That was my point.

01:28:36.621 --> 01:28:38.162
I'm like, dude, reading is reading, man.

01:28:38.202 --> 01:28:39.842
Your daughter wants to read something.

01:28:40.484 --> 01:28:40.743
Yeah.

01:28:40.783 --> 01:28:41.724
That's, that's amazing.

01:28:41.743 --> 01:28:42.265
That's awesome.

01:28:42.604 --> 01:28:43.905
She was like a kid.

01:28:44.750 --> 01:28:46.150
you know of course you know

01:28:46.171 --> 01:28:46.871
I made sure it wasn't

01:28:46.911 --> 01:28:48.891
nothing too you know

01:28:48.931 --> 01:28:50.533
violent or graphic you know

01:28:50.953 --> 01:28:52.613
yeah yeah my daughter

01:28:52.672 --> 01:28:53.873
literally has shelves upon

01:28:53.913 --> 01:28:55.073
shelves upon shelves of

01:28:55.094 --> 01:28:57.796
bookcases of manga dude

01:28:57.836 --> 01:28:58.956
your daughter is literally

01:28:59.076 --> 01:29:00.197
asking you permission to

01:29:00.237 --> 01:29:02.158
read a book right why would

01:29:02.177 --> 01:29:03.818
you say no and they're not

01:29:03.837 --> 01:29:05.698
right yeah some art can be

01:29:05.738 --> 01:29:06.738
expensive but for the most

01:29:06.779 --> 01:29:08.699
part seven eight ninety

01:29:08.739 --> 01:29:10.341
nine eight ninety nine yeah

01:29:10.400 --> 01:29:12.061
it's not bad I look anyway

01:29:13.599 --> 01:29:14.118
I got into trouble.

01:29:14.179 --> 01:29:16.121
My kids got real into One Piece.

01:29:16.681 --> 01:29:20.625
And there's a window of

01:29:20.685 --> 01:29:21.966
those books where the print

01:29:22.006 --> 01:29:23.047
runs are kind of low.

01:29:23.087 --> 01:29:25.430
And so it was like, eight dollars,

01:29:25.529 --> 01:29:27.070
eight dollars, seventeen dollars,

01:29:27.110 --> 01:29:27.492
thirty three.

01:29:27.511 --> 01:29:28.292
I was like, oh, no.

01:29:29.613 --> 01:29:31.215
I spent a lot of money on One Piece.

01:29:31.836 --> 01:29:32.556
But it was amazing.

01:29:32.596 --> 01:29:33.476
It was like, thankfully,

01:29:33.537 --> 01:29:35.238
my daughter never got into that one.

01:29:35.819 --> 01:29:36.319
Yeah.

01:29:36.380 --> 01:29:36.579
Yeah.

01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:37.381
But it was great.

01:29:37.400 --> 01:29:37.560
Yeah.

01:29:38.831 --> 01:29:40.572
Um, cause you know, I,

01:29:40.752 --> 01:29:42.734
I couldn't get them to read, uh,

01:29:42.753 --> 01:29:43.914
the old Spider-Man comics

01:29:43.935 --> 01:29:44.876
from the nineties because

01:29:44.916 --> 01:29:46.377
that's not of their world.

01:29:46.417 --> 01:29:47.217
They needed something that

01:29:47.257 --> 01:29:48.559
was of their world that was

01:29:48.679 --> 01:29:50.479
of the moment and that's

01:29:50.500 --> 01:29:51.801
where the work was being done.

01:29:52.061 --> 01:29:53.403
And, uh, it was awesome.

01:29:53.422 --> 01:29:55.725
I, I, I tried my best.

01:29:55.744 --> 01:29:55.824
I, I,

01:29:56.444 --> 01:29:58.106
I couldn't read it myself because it

01:29:58.146 --> 01:29:59.247
wasn't of my world.

01:29:59.347 --> 01:29:59.787
You know what I mean?

01:29:59.828 --> 01:30:01.389
Like, but it was,

01:30:01.869 --> 01:30:02.789
it was just pictures and

01:30:02.829 --> 01:30:03.990
words and it did the same

01:30:04.011 --> 01:30:05.592
thing for them that those

01:30:05.653 --> 01:30:06.814
old books did for me.

01:30:06.913 --> 01:30:07.894
And, um,

01:30:09.055 --> 01:30:10.295
Your kid is asking you to read.

01:30:10.335 --> 01:30:12.395
Parents out there, if you listen to this,

01:30:13.296 --> 01:30:16.536
if your child is asking for a book,

01:30:16.935 --> 01:30:19.457
a magazine, a comic book,

01:30:20.256 --> 01:30:22.016
they're asking you to read.

01:30:22.577 --> 01:30:23.198
Let them read.

01:30:23.877 --> 01:30:26.118
Yeah, for sure.

01:30:26.377 --> 01:30:27.198
It's that simple.

01:30:27.217 --> 01:30:28.498
They're literally asking you

01:30:28.519 --> 01:30:29.498
permission to read something.

01:30:29.538 --> 01:30:29.918
Let them read.

01:30:30.779 --> 01:30:32.719
Yeah, it's a beautiful, magical thing.

01:30:32.759 --> 01:30:33.279
Let them read.

01:30:33.819 --> 01:30:35.060
Or whatever the word is for manga.

01:30:35.079 --> 01:30:36.779
Yeah, yeah.

01:30:38.484 --> 01:30:40.006
So I don't understand that.

01:30:40.025 --> 01:30:40.845
Just parents,

01:30:40.886 --> 01:30:41.747
let your kids read if that's

01:30:41.766 --> 01:30:42.568
what they're asking for.

01:30:42.847 --> 01:30:43.288
It's simple.

01:30:43.309 --> 01:30:44.869
They're going to be smarter

01:30:44.890 --> 01:30:45.610
at the end of the day.

01:30:46.331 --> 01:30:47.112
Yeah, for sure.

01:30:47.853 --> 01:30:50.454
It's better than just

01:30:50.494 --> 01:30:52.096
passively consuming something.

01:30:53.438 --> 01:30:54.738
It's an active process.

01:30:54.759 --> 01:30:56.600
Your brain is processing information.

01:30:57.060 --> 01:30:58.582
It's stitching it together

01:30:58.622 --> 01:31:00.824
just like it does on its own.

01:31:00.885 --> 01:31:01.746
Yeah, exactly.

01:31:03.496 --> 01:31:06.337
So, all right, Bobby, let's wrap it up.

01:31:06.858 --> 01:31:07.537
You got it.

01:31:07.757 --> 01:31:08.377
April first,

01:31:08.438 --> 01:31:09.759
everybody tells the

01:31:09.779 --> 01:31:11.479
Illuminatus issue two will

01:31:11.520 --> 01:31:12.980
be out on Kickstarter as

01:31:13.020 --> 01:31:13.980
soon as it goes live.

01:31:14.020 --> 01:31:15.962
And I see Bobby and his team post it.

01:31:16.421 --> 01:31:17.302
I'll share it across my

01:31:17.382 --> 01:31:18.863
social media platforms as well.

01:31:21.085 --> 01:31:21.305
Bobby,

01:31:21.324 --> 01:31:22.706
did you tell them where they could

01:31:22.725 --> 01:31:23.086
find you?

01:31:24.238 --> 01:31:24.399
Yeah,

01:31:24.439 --> 01:31:27.500
so talesofilluminatis.com is the best

01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:28.640
place to find the book.

01:31:29.180 --> 01:31:31.159
Bobbycampbell.net is the

01:31:31.239 --> 01:31:32.421
best place to find me.

01:31:33.041 --> 01:31:35.440
And there's links to all the

01:31:36.622 --> 01:31:37.362
social media things.

01:31:37.402 --> 01:31:38.141
But again,

01:31:39.101 --> 01:31:40.721
I'm trying to plant the seed of

01:31:40.801 --> 01:31:41.962
the personal website.

01:31:41.983 --> 01:31:47.264
So I think HTML, CSS,

01:31:47.384 --> 01:31:49.543
and RSS are the wave of the future.

01:31:51.083 --> 01:31:52.505
Hey, everything goes back around.

01:31:53.045 --> 01:31:53.564
That's right.

01:31:54.451 --> 01:31:55.271
But as always,

01:31:55.292 --> 01:31:57.353
you can find me on Blue Sky

01:31:57.493 --> 01:32:00.154
at USDN Chairman and across

01:32:00.215 --> 01:32:01.036
all of the other social

01:32:01.055 --> 01:32:03.518
media platforms as USDN Podcast.

01:32:03.578 --> 01:32:05.880
That is all we have for you tonight.

01:32:06.460 --> 01:32:08.481
April first, the Kickstarter goes live.

01:32:08.962 --> 01:32:09.823
We hope you would come out

01:32:09.863 --> 01:32:11.623
and support that and Bobby

01:32:11.724 --> 01:32:12.585
and his team and what

01:32:12.604 --> 01:32:13.365
they're doing out there.

01:32:13.386 --> 01:32:14.787
But with that, ladies and gentlemen,

01:32:15.327 --> 01:32:17.248
Bobby Campbell tells of the

01:32:17.868 --> 01:32:21.431
Illuminatis are now USDN approved.

01:32:21.811 --> 01:32:23.012
Everybody have a good night

01:32:23.132 --> 01:32:24.253
and a safe weekend.