CJ: we're live.
Whenever you're ready.
Duke: I was about to tell this awful story about how these spiders jumped
me while I was walking my dog.
I walked through one of those, early morning nets, you know,
where they go, like they go like four or five feet across.
CJ: Yep.
Duke: I was like, what the heck?
And I like got the web outta my face.
I'm like, that's gross.
And I looked down there, it was just like four or five, and I'm just like,
just crawling all over my tummy.
I'm just like, ah, five 30 in the morning and I'm flailing my arms
and screaming in the middle of the.
CJ: Only one way out of this I must light myself on fire.
Duke: Yes.
It's sad, but it's the only way to be sure.
Okay.
We're leaving that one in.
What else are we talking about today?
CJ: All right.
Today, duke, , we're gonna do a requirements gathering, , episode.
, you are thinking about building a new app.
Duke: I am.
And.
The app is about a coaching program that I do, and so I'm
just gonna shamelessly pitch.
, I've been, in a lot of conversations with a lot of people who have gone
through a lot of bootcamps and I am sick and tired of how many people
are falling through the cracks.
Great people out there, great skills.
They just haven't got enough practical experience.
So I've designed my own custom training program.
Um, custom, no.
Wait, no.
I configured a training program, right.
Customization bad.
Configured good,
CJ: Nice
, Duke: I've made this new training program.
My trial run was three people.
They were all hired before it ended, and I'm now in my, second session.
We're not even halfway yet, so nobody's been hired.
, but we've got 15 people and I wanna , keep scaling from there.
And so if you're tired of the status quo, if you wanna go to a place that's
gonna teach you the concepts deep and then give you legit work that
you can cut your teeth on, , reach out to me at Rob at the Duke Digital
and, , see if you can join cohort three.
Unfortunately, this is North America only, but uh, I'd.
CJ: Nice.
All right, duke.
Unlike a lot of people right, who complain about the status quo, complain
about, , problems that, that exist and you complained about it then
when, and did something about it.
So that's pretty cool.
Duke: I appreciate that, brother.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Duke: we hadn't talked about it together for like a hundred
something times though, so.
CJ: well, I know, right?
But that's my point.
We did talk about it a hundred some times and boom, now you're doing it.
And really, , excited for all the people you've helped get gigs and
people you will be helping getting gigs because I think this is important.
, Obviously, right.
I'm affiliated with the ServiceNow rise up initiative, right?
There's pushing like a similar thing, ? Just to get more people, into this field,
getting them skilled up in ways like you are doing right that will make them
good ServiceNow resources in the future.
So,
, Duke: I definitely don't wanna take anything from rise up.
And I, I'd like to say that I'm aligned from the outside, like same goal,
but just a way different strategy.
And I happen to believe that my strategy's better and I'm
not gonna apologize about that.
CJ: And you should, right.
Like what's the point in doing it if you don't think you're doing it the best?
I think the goals are, are very much aligned at the end of the day.
Both systems are trying to get more people into the ecosystem.
Duke: Okay,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: let me, let me just be right up front that, building a new system sucks.
, it just sucks.
I'm doing a ton of stuff that's just seat of my pants, and so
like, you're roleplaying the requirements gather, right?
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
, I personally love seat of the pants, ? , that's where a lot
of the creativity comes from.
But now that you've been doing this, , a cohort and a half I anticipate that
you've, , kinda out some of the bugs and you're now looking to formalize
a little bit of what you're doing.
Duke: Yeah, there's a lot of information I want to capture, right?
And it helps me, it helps me decisions, it helps me keep on top of stuff.
It makes me, it helps me do more intelligent.
, use of my time.
And so I find , there's a lot of details that I forget and there's a lot of details
that I spend time looking for in email, and I've created two or three different.
Excel sheets to help with that.
But I, I'll tell you, I'm dealing a ton with attachments as well.
, and , I never realized how bad searching through email is until I
started searching for attachments.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: whoa.
Anyway,
CJ: And if you're not using something like Google, then it's,
and then the search is even worse.
Duke: Right.
So where do you wanna start, man?
CJ: I mean, we've already started actually.
See, that's the great thing, that's the great thing about doing
, requirements gathering, which is my f preferred style anyway, right?
Is that now I know you've got information that you need to capture, that you're
dealing with a lot of attachments and that you've tried to do this, , several
times already through both email and Excel spreadsheets, we've got
a solid base on things that you've tried to do and a solid base on, at
least at the beginning of a solid base on what you're trying to accomplish.
So when you say info that you're trying to capture, , let's go
ahead , and categorize that, right?
what are you trying, what are you trying to store?
How are you going to use it?
Duke: Okay.
Well maybe we start at the beginning, right?
And
CJ: Oh, man, we're, we're already at the beginning.
We're starting in
Duke: No, but I mean, the beginning of my process.
So , planning a cohort, Because the one thing my competition has over
me is they already have established businesses around it, right?
And they have, they have full-time staff that can deal with the
administrative logistics, right?
And so it's hard for me to just say it starts at this date.
It runs these times.
And if you don't like it, It's not for you.
Um, so when I first started out, I'm like, I have to get a critical mass of interest
and then make the start date and the, coaching times reasonably aligned, right?
And so I was putting feelers out and saying , who's interested, and so , think
about this as your sales pipeline.
I don't even have that.
And so that information's all stuck in LinkedIn.
It's stuck in email, it's stuck in wherever.
CJ: Oh, I get you.
You don't have a top of a funnel,
Duke: yeah, I don't have who's in the pipe?
CJ: right?
Duke: And we do have conversations along the way.
Some people just decide it's not for them.
Right.
Most of them decide.
Yeah.
But I don't have anything to track that.
So of course I pull out Excel and , it's just name email.
Where did they confirm Via, so
CJ: email source.
Yeah.
Duke: source, it was, was it LinkedIn, email, like whatever.
. Then I have an acid test interest.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Like some people are like, Hmm, maybe we should talk about that.
So , I won't give it an acid test of true, but somebody, I have like a legit phone
call about it and they just say, okay, , I gotta talk to my spouse or whatever.
I put those as like a, as a more warm, it's like a, a like a lead
warmth, I guess you could say.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Qualifying ease.
Yeah,
Duke: Yeah.
Okay.
Then I track if they'd been through another program in which program.
So I've got like next Gen M T B F or either of those, that's not those.
, I get a lot of interest outside in North America, so I also track if
you're non N A M R, where are you?
CJ: As
Duke: Like think there's a few people in the UK that I might let into the next one.
CJ: Yeah, but it's probably a lot harder like with a, an pack given
the way , the time zones align.
Okay.
Duke: And then I have some check boxes for if they object is the objection,
financial timeline or something else, like they already have a job or something.
CJ: Got it.
So objection and then Objection, reason.
Duke: Yeah.
, I imagine it being like a choice.
Objection, reason.
CJ: Oh, okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
Like just a, a selection.
Okay.
Duke: yeah, so it's none.
If it is none.
And it is something, if it is something.
CJ: Right.
Makes sense.
Duke: So then it's just like all the logistics of, did I
actually send them an invite?
, and when I give them the invite, I send them like a contract, via, um,
CJ: Oh, DocuSign.
Duke: Mm-hmm.
So I send everybody, so I get keep track is of , who's, , submitted a contract,
CJ: Right.
Did you invite them at the, and did you send a contract and have they Yeah.
Have they signed it now?
Is any of this, oh, I'm sorry.
Keep going.
Duke: Is any of this what.
CJ: I was gonna ask, uh, is any of this automated at this point?
Oh, is this all you?
Uh, manually by ticking
Duke: It's all me.
Like, whenever I, whenever like, um, when I, uh, DocuSign will send me an
email back saying like, this contract's been signed, which it is dumb.
It says this contract has been signed, but nowhere in there
does it say who signed it.
You literally gotta go back to the platform and like look to see
which ones are signed and which is like a five step process.
I hate it.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: it.
CJ: Yeah, no, that, that sounds pretty, pretty gruesome.
Duke: But I do that.
Then I ask them to submit like little tiny bios and I check to see if they did that.
I asked 'em to send me their resume as it is right now.
Right.
So I asked 'em to send me that.
It's like who's done it?
But also where is the darn thing?
'cause five weeks later I want to pull out an example of how to
write something in a resume, or I'm doing somebody's resume review.
Where is it?
Is it an email?
Did I put it in my resume folder?
CJ: Right.
Duke: So there's a lot of just pulling pieces of paper into, physical folders.
CJ: Got it.
, I mean, this is ground zero for what ServiceNow is good for, this is taking
work that exists manually, offline and inside of Excel spreadsheets.
and there's a process here, right?
, there's a workflow, , and then taking that and translating it into digital.
And making it move easier so that , you can gain back like, you know,
80% of your time on this thing.
Duke: Right.
CJ: Alright, so, oh, keep going.
Duke: well, I was just going to start into the next thing, but do you have quick
questions about the pipeline process?
CJ: Uh, no, I think I got the pipeline process down right?
Like I got a bunch of information that you're collecting and then you've
got some things that you're sending out , and that you're waiting on
returns , for, and you wanna track the process of all on all of those things.
That makes a lot of sense.
, the question, and the next question I have is, , is this like a, is this a app that
only , you use or is this, does it have a self , service portion of it as well?
Duke: I think at the start it would just be handy to have a place where like user,
like , the stuff I collect from people and all the different true falses was in
somewhere where there were unique records
CJ: So , like a checklist that you go through while you're
having a call with someone.
Duke: Yeah, it could be checklist or it could just be like, Hey,
who's scheduled for cohort three?
Who hasn't returned their, contract yet?
CJ: Got it.
Duke: So the, yeah, so maybe like some of these things aren't checklists,
they're literal, like they're properties.
I.
CJ: Right.
Okay.
And is all this information gap doing that initial call or is it
back and forth over email, or how do you typically get the info?
Duke: that's a great question.
It all just kind of manifests, like if they're, if they're, like, if
we're talking on LinkedIn, like, Hey, I heard about your cohort.
I'm like, so let's, oh, let's do a call.
Right.
So that might be interesting,, for the pipeline is calls that we've had.
cause then I'd know, 'cause I've been in places where it was like, I
was dealing with 50 people at once in a week and it's like, did we
could call and talk on the phone?
Yeah, we talked on the phone.
So that might be an interesting thing to track is just contacts.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
this is shaping up to be like a mini c r m.
Duke: Yeah, it like a very mini one.
I don't, I don't care for like full c r m functionality.
It would if I scaled it as a business and I had like 10 of me,
CJ: sure.
Duke: it's just me and the real headache I have is just, , blah blah.
Said that he, wanted to check back in two weeks.
CJ: Okay.
Right.
So that I could, I definitely see that as a headache.
Right, but is it the real headache?
, because you're the client now, right?
So I'm gonna,
Duke: so many more, there's so many more like, did they get me their resume?
No, , I got 15 people in cohort two, and , I have a check that says did they
gimme the resume or not, but where is it?
It's in my email somewhere and I'm still like searching
through my email like a pleb.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: to get to the, 'cause we're doing, we're just on the
phase of resume reviews now.
And so I'm plowing through, trying to find it in the email now, trying
to get them into my, resume folder.
And some of them are sending me like, oh, you know, I've learned
so much and I finally get it.
Now here's a second version of my resume before I get to my review.
So it's like, now it's like, which of those resumes are authoritative?
You see what I mean?
When it's two days later and three of them have played, have done this to me.
Right.
CJ: Yep.
Duke: It's just like, so, and it would make it so much easier.
'cause right now I have Excel and email and they're separate.
CJ: Right.
Duke: But in ServiceNow you get like a user record and it has attachments.
CJ: Yeah, and you can also have, related, , tables, right?
That you can put off the user record so you can see if there's different versions
of a resume and so on and so forth.
Duke: Yeah.
CJ: So , since I'm the consultant in this situation, I'll tell you, , what
I tell a lot of my clients is that, the problems that you are identifying
are different problem, right?
And it's, so I think you're missing the bigger problem, right?
And the bigger problem is, that this takes a lot of time for you to do.
And even if we build the app in the way that you're asking for
me to build it, you're still going to have to do all the work.
So we aren't, we, what we're what we're doing is mean you are repository, but
we're not giving you, , any time back.
Does that make sense?
Duke: Um, , I would ask you to consider that I spend a lot of time
looking for like Joe Schmoe's resume,
CJ: Sure.
Okay.
Yeah.
So yeah, so we do give you some time back by, , putting everything in one place.
Absolutely.
Duke: Right.
CJ: But you still have to put it there.
Duke: Yeah, yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.
Like if we could say, send your resume to this email.
We can figure out what their email address and use an inbound action or
a flow designer to basically say, just look up the user with the same email
address and attach this attachment there.
CJ: Wait, I'm sorry.
Say that again.
Duke: Okay, so , they send their resume to my Gmail, right?
Then I'm like, okay, let's download it and then I have to open service
now, log in and then like find their user record and upload it.
And that's where you're saying, oh Robert, you're not saving any time at all.
You're right.
But if we could get, if we could get them to just say, like, email
my instance with your attachment.
And so Joe Schmo emails my instance, and he's like, joe@schmo.com.
Well, I already have his email address because he's in my funnel.
CJ: Right?
Duke: And then it just says, oh, joe@schmo.com sent this attachment.
Take that attachment, attach it to his user record.
So I, now I know he has his resume.
CJ: Exactly.
, now we're talking about taking, , the process that, is time consuming, right?
, reducing the time that it takes, but also making it more efficient for you as well.
I, you know, the, keep going.
Let's go.
Um, so let
Duke: let me, let me lemme, because we're on a topic that.
Is bigger than just resumes too, because my first session is a real
deep dive on the why of ServiceNow,
CJ: Right.
Duke: You like, can I just pull my hair out for two seconds here?
CJ: Go for it.
Duke: it blows my mind how many people are coming out of bootcamps that cannot
adequately describe what ServiceNow does.
And what his value proposition is.
I can't tell you how many times it's been like, uh, it's a ticketing tool for it.
They haven't inherited any gravitas around like, why does everybody love it so much?
If it's just that
CJ: Yeah.
Right.
I was at the, ServiceNow Summit here in Chicago, just this week.
And, , the guy who was presenting mentioned the ServiceNow, , has for
a client 80% of the Fortune 500.
They're not all just using it because it's a ticketing system.
Duke: Right.
And I'm just like, I wanna be clear for these learners, it's not their fault
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: just, but who's gonna go deep and just say like, listen, this is
why ServiceNow is so miraculous.
So anyways, I do that as session number one, the miracle of ServiceNow,
not like, ServiceNow, the ticket tool, the miracle of ServiceNow.
And then the first homework they get is I send them this thing called
the, , solution ideation template,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: Take all that stuff in your own life.
Like all the jobs you had where you just like pulled your hair
and said, this is bullshit.
I can't stand this.
And make a ServiceNow app out of it.
But use some of the principles we discussed in the miracle
of ServiceNow session.
To tell me why this app belongs on ServiceNow, what value does
ServiceNow bring to this situation?
CJ: Right.
Is it fair to say that then the solution ideation template to the bringing the app
to life, um, is that like the homework for the Miracle Service Now session?
Or is this, or is it a separate thing that has its own homework?
I.
Duke: it's an ongoing thing.
So like well a lot of them don't get it in the first session, but as
we go through session more and more sessions, then they're like, oh, okay.
I get it.
Like it's usually around after we talk about database structure and a e s that
they finally get, oh, the reason I'm doing this thing, so I can write down
the tables and the columns that I need, and the properties of those tables.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: Uh, and what to do there.
And that is currently a Word document.
because it is a word processor thing, it's very heavily formatted.
And so word I usually prefer, but it strikes me now that I don't necessarily
need that , as an attachment.
Like maybe a different record type.
CJ: Yeah, possibly.
Duke: here's all the solution ideation templates and who
submitted them and link it back to.
Users, you know what I mean?
I'm sure that there's hooks for ways we can make that interesting.
Later.
CJ: Yeah, I agree.
, and so , where we are here now in this process is that we started off
talking about how we can get the work right, and then how we're gonna store
the data that comprises the work.
And now we're talking about, how you deliver the class.
And this is a different set of work.
And this is a different set of data.
So are you looking for an app that is not just the intake, right,
which is what we were talking about earlier, but now also the delivery
or the execution of the coursework.
Duke: Kind of so there's one thing I tell my cohort, is that I'm not
gonna chase anybody at homework.
nor am I gonna judge anybody at how much they have done.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: You know what I mean?
Like every, there's all kinds of different stages of life.
There's people that have full-time jobs while they're doing this.
maybe they got sick parents, sick kids.
Maybe they've got, , like we had a awful flood in our house.
We had sewage pumped into our basement.
So, , I myself am dealing with.
All the drama of that.
There's just too much drama in life for grownups, right?
And so it's like if you don't, if you don't do this homework for
whatever reason, no judgment from me.
CJ: Right.
Duke: So I know there's a rant there, but I don't want it to be some kind
of like hard thing like pass fail.
But , there are some things that I want to see, like I want to check in on.
So we do a requirements gathering workshop where they ask me about my
soaping business and they have to like design an app around it, kind
of like what we're doing right now.
and so after they build that app, we do all the other components of
ServiceNow in the context of that app.
So basically I want to get everybody across the finish line.
So I'd love to have tasks where I could say, where it's like,
It's associated to the user and I have some kind of status on it.
CJ: Oh, so this is pretty cool.
you're having the cohort essentially, , build individualized applications, but
then , because the applications all follow the same sort of template and then
talk to them with a frame of reference that relates to them, even though
you're talking at a higher level that relates to everyone at the same time.
Duke: That's right.
We all build something big, but it's not like, you know.
Five of us in a group or 10 of us in a group.
We all air quotes worked together.
No, it's just everybody works together on the requirements, but
you build it on your own instance.
Everybody has to go through the crucible of build.
CJ: Yeah.
I, I agree.
Yeah.
, Duke: and so , I'd like to be able to have a, whether it's a task or a
checkbox, something that says they got to the end of this requirement.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Using that term requirement softly.
CJ: So is this a stage or state field that is driving this kinda
like lifecycle of the course right.
Per individual
Duke: Yeah.
I'm still trying to figure out what the task bit is.
Right.
I tell, I tell my this, my students this all the time,
there has to be a tasky component
CJ: Yeah.
Fair enough.
Duke: I think.
where the more important pieces of homework are.
Yes.
They're simple tasks like Joe Schmo, please make sure you
have the Soaping app done.
Do whatever you can including call me
to get it done.
So that could be, that could definitely be a task.
And
CJ: yeah.
Duke: then, who doesn't have the Soaping app done or who haven't I checked in with?
CJ: So.
Duke: now, that's all just in my brain.
CJ: is this something that, you're tracking on your own or is
this something that you want the individual to assist you in tracking?
You know what I mean?
What I'm asking essentially is, Are you asking the indi the
individual and course, Hey, did you create the soap, the Soaping app?
And if they say, yeah, you go in and you change the state from , beginner
to Soaping app, app completed, right?
Or is this a situation.
Where , you want them to log into something like a portal.
. And they upload their work and then the process of upload, uploading
the work changes, their state.
Moves it
Duke: Maybe they can interact like, here's an expectation record and you can,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: like an expectation record is gimme your V two resume.
An expectation record might be validate that you've closed the Soaping app.
CJ: Yeah.
And then we, when you think about it, right from that perspective,
this is just a series of catalog tasks to a certain degree, right?
It's a process.
There's a workflow behind it, right?
And maybe catalog tasks is the wrong way to think about it.
But you know, there is a.
There's a task.
That task, , is a, predecessor to another task, which is a predecessor
to another task, so on and so forth, until they get to the finish line.
And the finish line is the completion of the course.
. And so when they look back, they can look back at all those
tasks , that they completed.
Some of them will have attachments, some of them not right.
And.
But they're driving this thing forward.
And then you can look at the back end of it and see all the
data that's been put in via the customer, , via each, , individual.
But are you looking for something like that or are you looking
for something where you know they've completed the thing?
Then you check the box off and you just use it in that way and you
create your own dashboard to monitor.
Duke: Okay.
So whether it's their like interaction with the record that self closes.
I don't really care, but I do have a set of expectations.
And , this is an interesting angle, not only that I have for them, but
maybe they don't know for themselves.
Like at the start, there's just a lot of moving parts.
, Hey, listen, get me a resume.
Hey listen, start working on these solution ideation templates.
, when I teach them users, groups and roles, I teach them how to build a
ServiceNow admin group on their instance.
Put their own personal account in there.
Granted the admin role, then make an account for me, copy the password and
send me the instance and the password.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Like that's an exercise.
And it's one of the first exercises so that when they get
to like flow designer and they're like, Hey, my flow doesn't work.
I'm just like, let me just log into your system.
CJ: Yeah, that makes
Duke: See what I, so I'm just like going really, really
deep on a lot of this stuff.
But like you can imagine like none of them are in order, right?
So it's not like a flow that says do this, then this and this.
It's just like, here's all the things and then weekly here's more
expectation, more expectations.
So at least it's visible for them and us.
So I'm definitely gonna change my answer.
That's a portal.
That is useful to me and them is definitely a useful thing.
CJ: Okay.
That makes sense.
Duke: And shoot something else I just did last week.
I'm like, here's my Calendly.
Everybody book a time,
CJ: Oh yeah.
I love Calendly.
Duke: oh, wouldn't a Calendly integration be so sweet?
Hmm.
CJ: Yeah, it would be, huh.
That's a nice to have.
We'll put that on a nice to,
Duke: Yeah.
But like a record producer, right?
Like I.
CJ: yeah.
Duke: Here we are on the Robert Fedor ServiceNow Coaching cohort
portal, book a time, right?
CJ: Yeah, exactly.
Duke: to Calendly and then that just does its thing.
CJ: so I'm gonna try to tie some of this together, right, because we went
in, two different directions, on two different, definitions of work and
two different parts of this process.
But there are, they are complimentary, right?
So from where I'm sitting right now, you have an intake process,
right, that you need to manage.
That meant that the way that you're managing it now is, basically a wing
and a prayer, somebody will e email
Duke: highly manual.
CJ: Yes.
incredibly manual.
not just like manual as in corporate.
It.
Somebody sent me an email manual.
This is manual in, in that it might be a several different,
intake, , sources for you,
? LinkedIn could be email, it could be, any source of things.
Somebody could have stopped you on the street, right?
Um, so, you know, with intake you got a highly manual process that you want to
streamline the abil the way that you get, , information from your potential, cohort.
Right.
We've categorized that you need to really, , be able to, capture attachments
and we've also, , captured , the fields that you're gonna use, right?
And that you're gonna be used these field, a lot of these fields to track
the progress or to validate whether or not a qualified, whether or not
a potential cohort member will be someone that you actually interact
with more to see if they're interested.
we've also updated, now this is the thing well, where sometimes
jumping around is helpful.
We validated that you'd likely want this , to have some kind of po , portal
component, So when we started collecting the information around the intake app,
you were very much in the mind of, I just need somewhere to put this stuff.
, if I just have somewhere to put it, then that's enough.
But then when we started talking about the coursework and how your
cohort interacts with you and how you interact with them and being able to,
, communicate progress, , you say, well, actually a portal will be very valuable.
Right?
So then we backport the portal.
To the intake app.
Right.
And we can use that here as, as probably , the way we want folks to interact with
you during the intake process as well,
Duke: let's break the fourth wall here for a second.
Like, isn't it amazing that I had such a clear idea in my head, I just want
this, but you just made yourself more consulting dollars because you convinced
me that well, don't you also need this?
Like, isn't this a big, wouldn't it also help.
CJ: Yeah,
Duke: you convinced me to increase the scope of the project because
now I'm like, you know what?
, why don't I make this self-service?
, not self-service is the wrong word.
Why don't I have a portal component that my cohort, uses?
CJ: Absolutely right.
Duke: for them now, like, mm-hmm.
, CJ: and the, way that I did that was by listening to you, right?
I listened to how you framed what the information that you gave back to me and I
noticed that it wasn't gist, capturing the information and have it somewhere store
It is also that you're a one man show.
It's also that , you haven't formalized a lot of it, right?
Like you're still in the process of shaking it out.
It's also that a lot of the time for this, you need to spend on
teaching and not on managing.
And so based on all of these situations, all of those, , those
situations that I was able to read into our conversation, right?
I also noted that.
a big requirement wasn't necessarily articulating, but was really
present is time management, right?
The ability to shrink the amount of time that you spend on managing this process
so that you can expand the amount of time that you spend with your cohort, and then,
you know, having a portal that folks can interact with allows you to push some
of the work that you were doing off on them, which gives you some time back.
So I, I got the purpose of the app here now.
We know who's gonna use it.
We know how they're gonna use it, ? We know the data that's gonna be created.
, we don't yet know how you're going to consume it.
So are you looking at , some kind of dashboard on your end?
Are you looking to have some kind of scheduled reporting?
, what are you looking at on this?
Duke: Yeah, I, definitely have want a dashboard , or dashboards
or a dashboard with tabs.
CJ: Okay.
Or workspace or,
Duke: Yeah.
, no, not a workspace, because I think a workspace is more like every day
I'm gonna go here and see these things and here's why it's not an every day.
'cause there's a dashboard I'll be using during the cohort planning, right?
Because now I'm starting to advertise cohort three.
Cough, cough, hit me up at Rob, at the duke, do digital, hit
me up at rob@theduke.digital.
Digital if you're interested.
But I'm planning it, right?
And so it's, it's basically like we can't start till everything's ready.
Here's all the parts that still need ready.
Like who hasn't put in contracts, do we have a critical mass yet of people
who have definitively said yes?
CJ: Right.
Duke: so there's that kind of stuff.
But then also during the cohort, there's that idea of expectations.
Please get me your resume.
Please get me your, , instance credentials for the account you made of me.
Please get me your solution ideation template or templates.
, please validate that you've finished the SOAP app.
Submit a question to me.
yeah, just like a lot of stuff that like.
You can call them tasks, but they're just expectations now.
, CJ: absolutely.
, and because some of those things, , relate to each other and some, well,
they all relate to each other as they're part of the, , execution of
running the business, but some of them are more closely aligned than others.
You want multiple dashboards or at least multiple , tabs,
Duke: I'd, I'd be happy with just like some, like, you know,
how I can master a list, right?
But definitely a dashboard that's kind of like I.
What are the, I think maybe just the types of things
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: how many people are, are left open.
So we got fi, we got two people that haven't signed a contract yet.
We have two people that haven't submitted resumes yet.
We have five people that haven't submitted a solution.
Ideation templates.
CJ: Yeah, I mean, this is one of, the things that you preach, , around
performance analytics, it's like, you know , what's the metric and which way is good,
Duke: Yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you, I mean we do have just, can I just take another two minutes
CJ: yeah, go for it.
Duke: 'cause one thing , I'm really wanting to get my arms around is
a data-driven way to figure out who is comfortable with what.
So like I'd love to be able to toss some kind of record somewhere that just says
Bob is having trouble with flow designer Jane is still needs more help with.
data structure, And then, then what I can do is by looking at the records of it,
I can just say, there's five people that still need help with data structures.
Let's just jump on a call and have an extra hour session on that.
Just the people who are having trouble.
CJ: Yeah.
So you want an ability to log, um, um, cohort competency against a set of skills,
Duke: Yeah.
Yeah.
It like skills fascinates me except for the skills are one dimensional, right?
The skills table contains skills and only skills, but yeah, , I'm really curious
about anything we can do that way as well.
CJ: Yeah, , that's a really interesting requirement.
, I think it's pretty cool, right?
, I think you'd also gamify it, ? That might be something that'd be interesting to
think about is how do you gamify, right?
Like, you know, um, your, your cohort, um, mastering all of those skills, right?
Duke: I would love a points board of some sort.
CJ: Yeah.
, Duke: I always joke about it in my classes, so somebody asks
a really profound question.
I'm like, you get the bonus point today.
But I'd also love to track that and just say so and so got the most
points and they get, I don't know, a discount on the whole cohort or
something, or, you know what I mean?
Or,
CJ: Yeah.
No, absolutely.
. I think that's great, given folks, that, , in the moment accomplishment
because the skills that they're taking that they're going to have here,
they will accumulate over time and sometimes in small increments, right?
So you don't always get that payoff , and dopamine like, but if you get some points,
points are dopamine incarnate, so, yeah.
We're gonna do some gamification around, some, , around skill mastery.
, I really like this idea.
I think this will be really, , in a cohort at the level of what you're doing, right?
, it's a good spot.
, let's see what else we got here.
So I.
We've got dashboards.
We know we're gonna, one of those dashboards , should be
some kind of, , points system.
, we know the information.
We know, okay, we know how we're doing this.
, I know the purpose of it, you know.
You know, Robert, I think I have probably enough here to get started.
, I think there's gonna, there are some open items here that I think
we're gonna have to it, right?
And they largely, , revolve around the, , the course itself, right?
Like, so you gave me a couple of items, , that you're delivering, ? Like
the Americorp of ServiceNow, the Solution Ideation template, right?
The Req Requirements Gathering Workshop, a k a and the SOAP building, , app.
There's probably a few other things here that, that we're missing that need to be
added to this, topic list of the course.
? But then you also want to have an easy way to add and remove and, and move
around , the actual topics themselves.
Duke: Well, I have an idea, since we are at 41 minutes, maybe we test far people
have gotten into this episode, and,
CJ: Okay.
Duke: and we say like, well, let me say like, um, show me more.
Put that down in the reply wherever you see this type down.
Show me more.
if you want us to do a full other episode on this and go deeper,
CJ: I like it.
Dude.
This has been fun, right?
Like, so
Duke: I, I do like the requirement gathering stuff.
It's one of my favorite parts of the job.
So,
CJ: Yeah.
I it put me in a situation to actually gather requirements from somebody
who knows a lot about service and that that's a right, like that's a
situation that I'm hardly ever in.
And when I'm in workshops, I'm normally trying to teach people
, how to use ServiceNow and what, and , the functionality, but you
know what the things are, right?
It's , yeah, I can use the portal for that.
We can probably do some task records against that.
Maybe some KPIs, you know.
Duke: Yep.
And it's so nice being on the other side of it this time.
All right.
I think that's all we have time for today though, right?
CJ: Yeah, I think so.
All right, guys.
Uh, let's tune in next time.
Duke: All right.
Still no outro
CJ: Still no outro.
Duke: all.