00:00:03.210 --> 00:00:05.312
Ubuntu is adding AI,

00:00:05.472 --> 00:00:07.593
a major new security vulnerability in

00:00:07.633 --> 00:00:09.573
Linux that's making headlines and writes

00:00:09.593 --> 00:00:10.714
con chaos.

00:00:10.835 --> 00:00:12.256
All this and more coming up on This

00:00:12.275 --> 00:00:13.916
Week in Privacy number fifty one.

00:00:14.276 --> 00:00:14.836
So stay tuned.

00:00:37.313 --> 00:00:39.414
Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

00:00:39.734 --> 00:00:41.655
our weekly series where we discuss the

00:00:41.695 --> 00:00:43.295
latest updates with what we've been

00:00:43.356 --> 00:00:45.616
working on within the Privacy Guides

00:00:45.637 --> 00:00:46.197
community,

00:00:46.798 --> 00:00:49.459
and this week's top stories in data

00:00:49.499 --> 00:00:51.320
privacy and cybersecurity.

00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:52.740
I'm Jordan,

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and this week I'm joined by Nate.

00:00:56.701 --> 00:00:57.383
How are you doing, Nate?

00:00:58.863 --> 00:00:59.463
I'm good.

00:00:59.664 --> 00:01:00.283
I'm a little tired.

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It's been a busy day for me,

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but I'm excited to jump into these stories

00:01:04.385 --> 00:01:05.727
and talk about some privacy stuff.

00:01:06.986 --> 00:01:07.585
Yeah, me too.

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All right.

00:01:08.307 --> 00:01:10.948
Now let's dive into the biggest news in

00:01:11.009 --> 00:01:13.629
privacy and security from the past week.

00:01:13.971 --> 00:01:20.754
So the top story here is Ubuntu's AI

00:01:20.775 --> 00:01:23.037
plans have Linux users looking for a kill

00:01:23.076 --> 00:01:24.137
switch.

00:01:24.177 --> 00:01:25.998
So if you haven't seen already,

00:01:26.578 --> 00:01:29.480
Ubuntu is basically planning to integrate

00:01:29.980 --> 00:01:33.563
AI features into the operating system.

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People have been moving away from Windows

00:01:36.825 --> 00:01:38.326
because of the AI features,

00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:41.331
So this is definitely an interesting move,

00:01:41.751 --> 00:01:45.793
but I do think this is definitely a

00:01:45.873 --> 00:01:49.935
move from the corporate side of Linux.

00:01:50.536 --> 00:01:52.775
For example, this is pushed by Canonical,

00:01:52.835 --> 00:01:55.057
the company that owns Ubuntu.

00:01:55.558 --> 00:01:57.978
So Canonical's plan to add AI features to

00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:00.719
Ubuntu has some users asking for a version

00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:02.560
of Ubuntu that does not include these

00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:03.081
features,

00:02:03.921 --> 00:02:05.522
while others say they'll stick with older

00:02:05.561 --> 00:02:07.623
versions of the Linux distro or even

00:02:07.683 --> 00:02:08.603
switch to a different one.

00:02:10.276 --> 00:02:12.617
So basically the canonical VP of

00:02:12.717 --> 00:02:15.961
engineering, John Seeger has basically,

00:02:16.540 --> 00:02:16.622
uh,

00:02:17.741 --> 00:02:19.701
already stated that they're not going to

00:02:19.722 --> 00:02:21.943
be adding a global AI kill switch,

00:02:22.502 --> 00:02:24.862
but users will be able to remove any

00:02:25.002 --> 00:02:27.804
AI features they don't want.

00:02:28.984 --> 00:02:30.604
So if you're kind of curious, like,

00:02:30.623 --> 00:02:32.085
you know, what is this,

00:02:32.504 --> 00:02:33.764
what is this going to look like?

00:02:34.485 --> 00:02:37.086
So basically he followed up on that and

00:02:37.145 --> 00:02:39.306
said, it would be, you know,

00:02:39.406 --> 00:02:41.346
stuff like accessibility tools,

00:02:41.385 --> 00:02:43.947
like AI speech to text and,

00:02:45.430 --> 00:02:46.371
and text-to-speech,

00:02:46.471 --> 00:02:48.852
along with like agentic AI features,

00:02:48.891 --> 00:02:52.373
which I think we at Privacy Guides are

00:02:52.394 --> 00:02:54.596
definitely much more skeptical about this

00:02:54.616 --> 00:02:55.256
sort of feature.

00:02:55.675 --> 00:02:57.997
We've definitely talked about that before

00:02:58.837 --> 00:03:01.338
as a sort of privacy and security risk

00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:02.199
in a lot of ways.

00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:04.941
So that's also kind of a concern.

00:03:06.301 --> 00:03:08.543
And he also followed up that by saying,

00:03:09.063 --> 00:03:11.664
the plan is to introduce AI features as

00:03:11.745 --> 00:03:13.026
a preview on a strictly

00:03:13.792 --> 00:03:17.133
opt-in basis in Ubuntu version twenty six

00:03:17.174 --> 00:03:17.875
point ten.

00:03:18.615 --> 00:03:20.996
So I believe that is not an LTS

00:03:21.015 --> 00:03:21.336
version.

00:03:21.396 --> 00:03:23.258
That's actually just a standard release.

00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:25.498
But yeah,

00:03:25.519 --> 00:03:27.740
this is going to have a step in

00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:29.461
the initial setup wizard that basically

00:03:29.641 --> 00:03:30.842
asks you if you want to use the

00:03:31.002 --> 00:03:31.723
AI features.

00:03:32.913 --> 00:03:35.836
And he also clarified that these features

00:03:35.855 --> 00:03:38.818
will be added as snaps to the operating

00:03:38.878 --> 00:03:39.259
system.

00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:40.501
So if you're not really familiar with

00:03:40.561 --> 00:03:40.901
snaps,

00:03:40.942 --> 00:03:43.664
they're basically a package format that

00:03:43.724 --> 00:03:45.947
Canonical has moved forward with.

00:03:46.668 --> 00:03:48.030
And that is...

00:03:48.688 --> 00:03:52.431
sort of their proprietary package format.

00:03:53.051 --> 00:03:57.074
So I guess to sort of move on

00:03:57.133 --> 00:03:57.955
from this,

00:03:58.574 --> 00:04:01.576
there was also another organization that

00:04:01.616 --> 00:04:02.518
has a Linux distro.

00:04:02.557 --> 00:04:05.539
So this was the CEO and lead developer

00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:06.520
of Zorin OS.

00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:07.540
And because, you know,

00:04:07.561 --> 00:04:08.801
this is kind of becoming a sort of

00:04:08.861 --> 00:04:10.723
controversial topic because a lot of

00:04:10.763 --> 00:04:13.965
people are quitting Windows specifically

00:04:14.185 --> 00:04:16.185
because they don't want all the AI garbage

00:04:16.206 --> 00:04:17.206
like Copilot and

00:04:17.656 --> 00:04:20.720
these agentic features, Artyom Zorin,

00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:23.281
who's the CEO and lead developer of Zorin

00:04:23.362 --> 00:04:23.762
OS,

00:04:25.144 --> 00:04:26.745
said in a statement to The Verge that

00:04:26.824 --> 00:04:29.908
his distribution, Zorin OS,

00:04:30.007 --> 00:04:31.428
is AI agnostic,

00:04:31.730 --> 00:04:33.610
and that any potential AI features must

00:04:33.651 --> 00:04:35.713
adhere to our values of keeping Zorin OS

00:04:35.752 --> 00:04:37.314
secure, privacy respecting,

00:04:37.894 --> 00:04:38.975
and performant.

00:04:40.271 --> 00:04:45.213
So he also said that Zorin OS might

00:04:45.273 --> 00:04:48.194
adopt these features as they do appear to

00:04:48.213 --> 00:04:50.214
meet the requirements of respecting

00:04:50.274 --> 00:04:52.875
people's privacy and security.

00:04:53.137 --> 00:04:55.538
So a lot of these features that he

00:04:55.557 --> 00:04:58.439
talked about were like local AI models.

00:04:58.478 --> 00:05:00.839
So that is a benefit.

00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:02.721
And I also wanted to cover another thing

00:05:02.761 --> 00:05:02.980
here.

00:05:04.286 --> 00:05:07.552
that this article didn't actually show.

00:05:08.213 --> 00:05:10.036
There was an interview done by Fosforge

00:05:12.086 --> 00:05:12.846
FOSS Force,

00:05:13.526 --> 00:05:15.206
and this was by Christine Hall.

00:05:15.968 --> 00:05:17.807
And basically they interviewed John

00:05:17.848 --> 00:05:19.709
Seeger, who's the, as we said before,

00:05:19.728 --> 00:05:21.889
the VP of engineering at Canonical.

00:05:22.490 --> 00:05:24.810
And he did state in this interview,

00:05:24.891 --> 00:05:28.072
we're not, sorry,

00:05:28.112 --> 00:05:30.254
we're not setting shallow metrics on token

00:05:30.334 --> 00:05:32.735
usage or percentages of code written with

00:05:32.855 --> 00:05:33.154
AI,

00:05:33.314 --> 00:05:35.675
but rather incentivizing engineers to

00:05:35.716 --> 00:05:37.877
experiment and understand where AI tools

00:05:38.016 --> 00:05:38.576
add value.

00:05:39.605 --> 00:05:42.509
rather than force a single early choice AI

00:05:42.569 --> 00:05:43.009
stack.

00:05:43.690 --> 00:05:46.975
We're incentivizing teams to each pick

00:05:47.016 --> 00:05:48.478
something different and go deep,

00:05:48.798 --> 00:05:50.862
so we learn more as an org in

00:05:50.901 --> 00:05:51.762
the next six months.

00:05:53.125 --> 00:05:57.528
He also said that Ubuntu workers will

00:05:57.908 --> 00:06:00.990
never be replaced by AI.

00:06:01.411 --> 00:06:03.173
So that is a good thing, right?

00:06:04.593 --> 00:06:07.915
Whether that stays true or not is up

00:06:07.956 --> 00:06:08.636
for debate.

00:06:08.757 --> 00:06:11.077
You know, you can say, oh, we're just,

00:06:11.117 --> 00:06:12.538
you know, we just didn't need you anymore.

00:06:12.678 --> 00:06:14.160
Like you can make up kind of any

00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:15.661
excuse you want to lay someone off.

00:06:16.281 --> 00:06:19.264
So I don't know if that's entirely,

00:06:20.244 --> 00:06:21.305
you can't really, you know,

00:06:22.437 --> 00:06:24.720
follow that but anyway that's kind of my

00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.242
personal opinion on the matter um and i

00:06:27.262 --> 00:06:29.543
think this i'm going to hand it over

00:06:29.584 --> 00:06:30.925
here to nate because i feel like i've

00:06:30.944 --> 00:06:32.526
talked on this quite a while i do

00:06:32.545 --> 00:06:34.627
have some privacy and security concerns

00:06:35.208 --> 00:06:36.709
with some of this but i kind of

00:06:36.728 --> 00:06:40.331
wanted to hear what your thoughts are nate

00:06:40.531 --> 00:06:43.615
well um let's see i think uh

00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:45.660
Well, first of all,

00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.000
I want to clarify a couple of things

00:06:47.021 --> 00:06:48.322
just in case you did mention this,

00:06:48.341 --> 00:06:49.682
but just in case anybody missed it.

00:06:50.884 --> 00:06:53.026
So these are allegedly these are going to

00:06:53.045 --> 00:06:54.187
be opt in features.

00:06:54.827 --> 00:06:57.509
They're not going to come pre shipped with

00:06:57.550 --> 00:06:58.571
the operating system.

00:06:58.630 --> 00:07:00.291
He did explicitly say that in future

00:07:00.331 --> 00:07:00.812
releases,

00:07:00.833 --> 00:07:02.574
like if you install Ubuntu from scratch,

00:07:03.113 --> 00:07:05.716
that the install wizard will ask you if

00:07:05.737 --> 00:07:07.057
you want to enable any of these features.

00:07:07.927 --> 00:07:08.406
Um,

00:07:08.427 --> 00:07:09.687
they also said they're going to be rolled

00:07:09.708 --> 00:07:10.387
out as snaps, uh,

00:07:11.028 --> 00:07:12.247
which for better or worse,

00:07:12.327 --> 00:07:13.588
you can remove snaps.

00:07:13.749 --> 00:07:16.389
So this is not going to be baked

00:07:16.550 --> 00:07:18.189
into the, the, I mean,

00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:19.790
not the kernel isn't the right word to

00:07:19.831 --> 00:07:20.651
be technical, but you know,

00:07:20.670 --> 00:07:21.730
they're not going to be baked deep into

00:07:21.750 --> 00:07:24.651
the operating system where, um, you know,

00:07:24.872 --> 00:07:26.413
it's, it's a pain to remove them,

00:07:26.552 --> 00:07:27.033
but yeah,

00:07:27.906 --> 00:07:30.608
So, um, overall, I mean,

00:07:30.689 --> 00:07:32.209
I'm not a huge fan of canonical.

00:07:32.230 --> 00:07:34.071
They've definitely done some not great

00:07:34.110 --> 00:07:34.891
stuff in the past.

00:07:34.971 --> 00:07:37.733
Like I think one of their releases came

00:07:37.752 --> 00:07:39.834
with like the Amazon app pre-installed or

00:07:39.853 --> 00:07:40.875
something, which was super weird.

00:07:41.716 --> 00:07:41.915
Um,

00:07:42.235 --> 00:07:44.637
but I think it would be fair to

00:07:44.656 --> 00:07:46.158
say that they're not quite as bad as

00:07:46.197 --> 00:07:48.500
Google in this sense, or not Google,

00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:49.560
like Microsoft, um,

00:07:49.661 --> 00:07:51.781
these other big tech companies, um,

00:07:53.482 --> 00:07:55.163
I can't say I'd be terribly surprised to

00:07:55.182 --> 00:07:56.963
see them change course for now and to

00:07:56.983 --> 00:07:58.483
watch them become opt-out features,

00:07:58.865 --> 00:08:01.805
but I also wouldn't say it's inevitable,

00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:02.365
personally.

00:08:04.007 --> 00:08:05.028
But I think, yeah, I think...

00:08:06.834 --> 00:08:08.095
One thing I will applaud is that I

00:08:08.134 --> 00:08:10.117
think there's kind of two sides of this,

00:08:10.156 --> 00:08:10.336
right?

00:08:10.357 --> 00:08:11.877
There's like the user facing side of it

00:08:11.898 --> 00:08:12.398
where it's like, hey,

00:08:12.418 --> 00:08:14.139
we're going to offer you AI features.

00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:16.120
And I think at least the features they're

00:08:16.201 --> 00:08:18.262
offering are things that I personally

00:08:18.302 --> 00:08:19.863
think could be useful for people who want

00:08:19.903 --> 00:08:21.264
them, like accessibility features,

00:08:21.305 --> 00:08:23.807
speech to text, also troubleshooting.

00:08:23.867 --> 00:08:25.867
Like Windows used to have a

00:08:25.927 --> 00:08:27.528
troubleshooting tool and back around

00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:28.129
Windows...

00:08:29.494 --> 00:08:31.656
Seven, eight, maybe ten as well.

00:08:32.615 --> 00:08:34.577
But in the early days, it was amazing.

00:08:34.918 --> 00:08:36.578
It was actually really, really good.

00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:37.899
You could go down and it was in

00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:38.801
the taskbar.

00:08:38.821 --> 00:08:41.403
You go down and you like right click

00:08:41.423 --> 00:08:41.923
it or whatever.

00:08:42.023 --> 00:08:42.524
And you're like, hey,

00:08:42.543 --> 00:08:44.565
I'm having trouble with accessing the

00:08:44.585 --> 00:08:45.326
Internet or whatever.

00:08:45.426 --> 00:08:46.706
And it would go through the steps and

00:08:46.826 --> 00:08:48.467
nine out of ten times it would fix

00:08:48.488 --> 00:08:49.308
whatever the issue was.

00:08:49.989 --> 00:08:50.849
And then for some reason,

00:08:50.889 --> 00:08:52.549
Microsoft made it terrible to the point

00:08:52.570 --> 00:08:53.770
where they eventually killed it off.

00:08:53.831 --> 00:08:55.071
And I remember the last few times I

00:08:55.110 --> 00:08:56.591
tried to use it, it's like, hey,

00:08:56.611 --> 00:08:57.292
I'm having an issue.

00:08:57.392 --> 00:08:59.552
And it's like, sorry, I can't help you.

00:08:59.592 --> 00:09:01.453
Maybe try these pages that are completely

00:09:01.533 --> 00:09:02.995
useless and don't answer your questions at

00:09:03.054 --> 00:09:03.195
all.

00:09:03.235 --> 00:09:05.615
So the reason I bring that up is

00:09:05.655 --> 00:09:07.557
because if they're going to use one thing

00:09:08.336 --> 00:09:10.177
that AI is really good at,

00:09:10.238 --> 00:09:11.138
at least in my experience,

00:09:11.158 --> 00:09:12.119
is troubleshooting things.

00:09:12.178 --> 00:09:13.899
It's really good at feeding error codes

00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:14.659
and you tell it like,

00:09:15.139 --> 00:09:16.682
I'm using this version of a browser.

00:09:16.701 --> 00:09:18.043
I'm using this operating system.

00:09:18.702 --> 00:09:20.365
And it's really good at being like, oh,

00:09:20.404 --> 00:09:21.405
this error code means this.

00:09:21.466 --> 00:09:22.025
Try this.

00:09:22.206 --> 00:09:23.988
And I have personally found that to be

00:09:24.008 --> 00:09:24.567
very useful.

00:09:24.629 --> 00:09:26.250
So I guess what I'm trying to get

00:09:26.289 --> 00:09:27.831
at is at least I feel like these

00:09:27.850 --> 00:09:29.712
are features that could potentially be

00:09:29.852 --> 00:09:31.033
useful for people who want them.

00:09:31.274 --> 00:09:32.455
I'm not saying that everybody has to go

00:09:32.495 --> 00:09:32.875
get them.

00:09:33.296 --> 00:09:33.696
But again,

00:09:33.756 --> 00:09:34.898
compare this to something like...

00:09:35.498 --> 00:09:37.480
windows recall, or, um,

00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.480
I think they even rolled AI into like

00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:40.522
Microsoft paint now.

00:09:40.642 --> 00:09:42.743
And now you can do like generative image

00:09:42.763 --> 00:09:43.063
stuff.

00:09:43.124 --> 00:09:44.104
And it's like, I don't want that.

00:09:44.264 --> 00:09:45.065
Nobody wants that.

00:09:45.384 --> 00:09:46.866
This is stuff that's actually useful

00:09:47.147 --> 00:09:47.706
somewhat.

00:09:47.746 --> 00:09:49.268
But, um,

00:09:49.327 --> 00:09:50.408
I think those are kind of my initial

00:09:50.428 --> 00:09:50.870
thoughts.

00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:54.292
I think, um, I think unfortunately,

00:09:54.312 --> 00:09:55.192
you know, somebody, uh,

00:09:55.273 --> 00:09:56.394
bam here asked like,

00:09:56.813 --> 00:09:57.995
what are the alternatives then?

00:09:58.475 --> 00:09:58.815
Um,

00:09:58.835 --> 00:10:00.035
because a lot of beginner distros are

00:10:00.056 --> 00:10:00.817
based on Ubuntu.

00:10:01.496 --> 00:10:02.197
I think, um,

00:10:02.734 --> 00:10:03.975
a lot of this really remains to be

00:10:04.014 --> 00:10:05.336
seen in my personal opinion,

00:10:05.495 --> 00:10:07.118
because I mean, things like men, um,

00:10:07.138 --> 00:10:08.538
there is a Debbie inversion, uh,

00:10:09.019 --> 00:10:10.139
like sees here pointed out,

00:10:10.179 --> 00:10:11.961
there is a version of Debbie or mint

00:10:11.981 --> 00:10:12.741
that's based on Debbie.

00:10:12.761 --> 00:10:14.243
And because honestly,

00:10:14.283 --> 00:10:15.985
men ended up making so many changes to

00:10:16.004 --> 00:10:17.025
Ubuntu anyways, they were like,

00:10:17.046 --> 00:10:17.605
it's easier to just,

00:10:17.645 --> 00:10:19.206
just go back to Debbie in and start

00:10:19.226 --> 00:10:19.748
from scratch.

00:10:20.427 --> 00:10:20.528
Um,

00:10:21.308 --> 00:10:22.288
You know, Zorin OS,

00:10:22.369 --> 00:10:23.870
like you said here with the interview with

00:10:24.190 --> 00:10:26.169
the CEO of Zorin, he didn't say no.

00:10:26.450 --> 00:10:27.610
He didn't say we're never going to roll

00:10:27.669 --> 00:10:28.471
out AI features.

00:10:28.530 --> 00:10:30.270
He said we're going to be thoughtful about

00:10:30.331 --> 00:10:32.130
it, which, again, like,

00:10:32.471 --> 00:10:33.851
I fully respect there are some people that

00:10:33.871 --> 00:10:35.052
are just hardcore, like, no,

00:10:35.152 --> 00:10:37.412
no AI ever for anything, no matter what.

00:10:37.972 --> 00:10:38.832
And if you feel that way,

00:10:38.873 --> 00:10:40.552
then you have no guarantee that Zorin

00:10:40.592 --> 00:10:41.133
won't do this.

00:10:42.232 --> 00:10:42.913
I love Pop.

00:10:43.014 --> 00:10:44.553
My wife uses Pop, but also...

00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:46.859
Honestly,

00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:48.299
they'd be the first one I would expect

00:10:48.740 --> 00:10:49.480
to add AI,

00:10:49.541 --> 00:10:51.042
except maybe like Red Hat because of their

00:10:51.142 --> 00:10:51.523
corporate...

00:10:51.562 --> 00:10:52.403
Like you mentioned at the beginning,

00:10:52.423 --> 00:10:54.325
a lot of corporate pressure from the

00:10:54.365 --> 00:10:55.806
companies that really put a lot of funding

00:10:55.846 --> 00:10:57.427
into these operating systems or these

00:10:57.466 --> 00:10:58.307
particular distros.

00:10:58.347 --> 00:11:00.448
So I don't know at this time,

00:11:00.688 --> 00:11:01.509
to be totally honest.

00:11:01.629 --> 00:11:03.731
I don't know who would be safe from

00:11:04.893 --> 00:11:05.633
the AI stuff.

00:11:05.753 --> 00:11:06.994
I think, unfortunately,

00:11:07.894 --> 00:11:09.135
and feel free to correct me if you

00:11:09.155 --> 00:11:10.756
disagree because I could be wrong on this,

00:11:11.517 --> 00:11:13.619
but I feel like what we're going to

00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:14.399
see is kind of like...

00:11:16.245 --> 00:11:17.248
There's a lot of,

00:11:19.091 --> 00:11:20.153
like in the browser space,

00:11:20.212 --> 00:11:21.634
we see a lot of forks

00:11:22.573 --> 00:11:23.575
that remove stuff.

00:11:23.774 --> 00:11:24.495
So like, um,

00:11:24.534 --> 00:11:26.155
like water Fox or like Libra wall,

00:11:26.176 --> 00:11:26.895
for example, you know,

00:11:26.936 --> 00:11:29.677
like Mozilla will roll this thing out and

00:11:30.077 --> 00:11:31.859
Libra wolf will take the AI out or,

00:11:32.058 --> 00:11:32.940
um,

00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:34.520
helium is not really a fork of brave

00:11:34.561 --> 00:11:35.120
per se,

00:11:35.181 --> 00:11:37.062
but I found out recently it does actually

00:11:37.081 --> 00:11:38.302
incorporate some of brave stuff.

00:11:38.903 --> 00:11:41.024
They didn't include Leo, for example.

00:11:41.124 --> 00:11:42.725
So I feel like we're going to end

00:11:42.745 --> 00:11:44.485
up in the same thing with, um,

00:11:44.525 --> 00:11:45.385
I feel like we're going to end up

00:11:45.527 --> 00:11:48.607
in the same vein with these Linux distros

00:11:48.648 --> 00:11:49.948
where we've got, um,

00:11:50.605 --> 00:11:53.307
the main players, the Fedora, the Ubuntu,

00:11:53.726 --> 00:11:55.508
and unfortunately they're adding AI and

00:11:55.528 --> 00:11:56.447
it's going to fall on the people

00:11:56.528 --> 00:11:58.168
downstream of them to strip it out.

00:11:58.249 --> 00:11:59.408
Except for, I will say Debian.

00:11:59.909 --> 00:12:02.110
I would be very shocked if Debian adds

00:12:02.129 --> 00:12:02.409
this,

00:12:03.250 --> 00:12:05.451
but also historically Debian does not

00:12:05.652 --> 00:12:07.672
always necessarily keep the repo super up

00:12:07.692 --> 00:12:08.052
to date.

00:12:08.173 --> 00:12:09.633
And I personally have had that come back

00:12:09.653 --> 00:12:10.513
to bite me in the past.

00:12:10.714 --> 00:12:15.794
So yeah, I don't know.

00:12:15.835 --> 00:12:16.176
Did I,

00:12:16.196 --> 00:12:17.596
did I miss anything on that one or

00:12:17.916 --> 00:12:19.496
any further thoughts came to mind while I

00:12:19.517 --> 00:12:19.937
was saying that?

00:12:22.211 --> 00:12:24.394
Not really anything to add on the

00:12:24.533 --> 00:12:25.575
integration stuff.

00:12:25.615 --> 00:12:28.378
I think it's kind of like someone said

00:12:28.418 --> 00:12:31.740
here in the chat, I'm not against AI.

00:12:32.741 --> 00:12:34.143
Bam Owen said, point is,

00:12:34.163 --> 00:12:35.585
I'm not against AI if there's a reason

00:12:35.625 --> 00:12:35.904
for it.

00:12:35.945 --> 00:12:37.547
The reason now is it's fashion.

00:12:38.187 --> 00:12:39.528
which, you know, I don't see,

00:12:40.208 --> 00:12:41.589
I just don't see a lot of the,

00:12:41.710 --> 00:12:43.370
like I can see for accessibility,

00:12:43.610 --> 00:12:46.413
like I could see maybe if it's like

00:12:46.432 --> 00:12:47.452
a local system,

00:12:47.573 --> 00:12:49.154
like I'd need to know more about how

00:12:49.195 --> 00:12:51.255
it, what data it's trained on,

00:12:51.275 --> 00:12:54.738
like how it's, what, how exactly it works.

00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:58.201
But I think a lot of these agentic

00:12:58.701 --> 00:12:59.922
systems are

00:13:01.192 --> 00:13:02.611
it's very like fashionable.

00:13:02.652 --> 00:13:04.592
Like we did have a story that we

00:13:04.633 --> 00:13:05.873
were going to talk about this week,

00:13:05.932 --> 00:13:07.813
but it ended up getting the chop,

00:13:07.913 --> 00:13:09.394
but there was, you know,

00:13:09.413 --> 00:13:11.914
we're seeing a lot of, uh,

00:13:11.955 --> 00:13:14.355
people using this agentic system to shop

00:13:14.434 --> 00:13:16.615
online, do all sorts of things,

00:13:16.716 --> 00:13:17.535
use their computer.

00:13:18.515 --> 00:13:19.937
Um, yeah,

00:13:19.956 --> 00:13:22.177
it's like handing over control of your

00:13:22.197 --> 00:13:24.798
computer to some massive AI company.

00:13:24.837 --> 00:13:27.738
It's not really the greatest thing to do.

00:13:27.977 --> 00:13:29.839
I would say on a privacy perspective,

00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:30.158
at least.

00:13:32.642 --> 00:13:33.442
Yeah, for sure.

00:13:33.602 --> 00:13:36.004
And I'm actually glad you mentioned that

00:13:36.024 --> 00:13:37.025
because that was the other side I kind

00:13:37.046 --> 00:13:38.368
of forgot to mention very briefly.

00:13:38.727 --> 00:13:41.490
I feel like it's very... I do...

00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:44.820
Personal opinion, and I could be wrong.

00:13:46.081 --> 00:13:46.520
Thankfully,

00:13:46.681 --> 00:13:48.241
I'm a fully able-bodied person,

00:13:48.381 --> 00:13:50.222
so I could be talking on my ass

00:13:50.243 --> 00:13:50.442
here.

00:13:50.943 --> 00:13:53.105
But I feel like accessibility is one area

00:13:53.164 --> 00:13:55.005
where open source historically lags

00:13:55.025 --> 00:13:55.426
behind.

00:13:55.605 --> 00:13:57.508
And I'm making that claim looking at my

00:13:57.528 --> 00:13:57.768
wife,

00:13:57.788 --> 00:14:00.950
who I'm very open about is extreme ADHD,

00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:02.289
like severe ADHD.

00:14:03.356 --> 00:14:04.538
And, um,

00:14:04.597 --> 00:14:05.798
a lot of the times she struggles to

00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:07.620
use a lot of open source tools for

00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.240
things that most of us don't really care

00:14:09.280 --> 00:14:11.261
about, but for people like her are like,

00:14:11.581 --> 00:14:13.663
it's her brain struggles to adapt to these

00:14:13.682 --> 00:14:16.365
tools because of just the, the menus,

00:14:16.384 --> 00:14:17.625
the user interface,

00:14:17.644 --> 00:14:18.485
just the way they look.

00:14:18.905 --> 00:14:20.167
And it's not even that she's trying to

00:14:20.187 --> 00:14:20.687
be picky.

00:14:20.726 --> 00:14:22.307
It's just the way that her brain responds

00:14:22.347 --> 00:14:23.668
to this stuff is if it doesn't grab

00:14:23.708 --> 00:14:23.948
her,

00:14:24.509 --> 00:14:25.870
then she forgets to use it or she

00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:28.331
has a hard time like using it properly

00:14:28.370 --> 00:14:29.032
and stuff like that.

00:14:29.631 --> 00:14:31.732
And so I feel like open source software,

00:14:31.913 --> 00:14:32.232
I think,

00:14:32.312 --> 00:14:34.595
has come a really long way in some

00:14:34.955 --> 00:14:35.855
accessibility tools.

00:14:35.894 --> 00:14:37.655
Like I know on Mastodon,

00:14:37.676 --> 00:14:38.917
people are really pushy,

00:14:40.077 --> 00:14:41.317
respectfully in my experience,

00:14:41.658 --> 00:14:42.918
but they're really pushy about adding like

00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:44.480
alt text to your images, for example.

00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:46.760
But I feel like we've lagged behind in

00:14:46.780 --> 00:14:47.981
a lot of other ways with like...

00:14:49.630 --> 00:14:50.631
like I know, uh, when,

00:14:50.731 --> 00:14:52.471
when brave was trying to fight off recall,

00:14:53.133 --> 00:14:54.714
they had to take into account making sure

00:14:54.734 --> 00:14:56.134
the screen readers still worked and stuff

00:14:56.153 --> 00:14:56.573
like that.

00:14:57.174 --> 00:14:58.554
So, um,

00:14:58.696 --> 00:15:00.056
I think where I'm going with this,

00:15:00.456 --> 00:15:02.517
I think the AI could be useful if

00:15:02.576 --> 00:15:04.118
it improves some of those accessibility

00:15:04.158 --> 00:15:04.398
tools.

00:15:04.437 --> 00:15:05.839
Like maybe if it can automatically pick

00:15:05.938 --> 00:15:07.879
out a better color scheme for colorblind

00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.340
people,

00:15:08.961 --> 00:15:10.260
or if it can do the whole like

00:15:10.301 --> 00:15:12.722
speech to text thing really well, um,

00:15:12.743 --> 00:15:13.863
not to get too far on that tangent,

00:15:13.903 --> 00:15:14.102
but I've,

00:15:14.222 --> 00:15:15.744
I've mentioned in the past somewhere in

00:15:15.783 --> 00:15:17.644
the past recently that, um,

00:15:18.361 --> 00:15:19.663
people used to recommend to me that you

00:15:19.682 --> 00:15:21.484
could use your screen reader to listen to

00:15:21.504 --> 00:15:22.664
news articles while you're working.

00:15:22.684 --> 00:15:25.386
Because I used to work a very physical

00:15:25.427 --> 00:15:26.648
job where I couldn't just sit and look

00:15:26.668 --> 00:15:27.668
at the screen and read an article.

00:15:27.707 --> 00:15:28.229
But they're like, yeah,

00:15:28.308 --> 00:15:29.429
use the screen reader and listen to it

00:15:29.450 --> 00:15:29.990
while you're working.

00:15:30.470 --> 00:15:32.471
And I just cannot listen to that monotone.

00:15:32.772 --> 00:15:34.173
It doesn't get the pauses right.

00:15:34.373 --> 00:15:36.615
It runs right through periods.

00:15:36.654 --> 00:15:37.534
And it's just like, oh,

00:15:37.575 --> 00:15:39.056
this is impossible to listen to.

00:15:39.115 --> 00:15:39.716
I can't do it.

00:15:40.136 --> 00:15:41.597
But I would love an AI where it

00:15:41.817 --> 00:15:43.799
can more or less get the cadence and

00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:44.360
it can kind of

00:15:45.572 --> 00:15:46.513
I think that could be a good use

00:15:46.533 --> 00:15:46.732
for it,

00:15:46.753 --> 00:15:49.014
but I am really confused where he talks

00:15:49.053 --> 00:15:50.615
about developers.

00:15:50.634 --> 00:15:52.215
We're trying to get developers back on

00:15:52.395 --> 00:15:53.015
Ubuntu.

00:15:53.235 --> 00:15:55.456
I don't know, just that whole thing.

00:15:56.456 --> 00:15:57.317
It was one of those things.

00:15:57.337 --> 00:15:58.759
You had me right up until that part,

00:15:58.778 --> 00:15:59.178
and then I'm like,

00:16:00.119 --> 00:16:01.179
what is he talking about?

00:16:01.299 --> 00:16:03.480
I don't know if it's just them trying

00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:04.500
to stay competitive or something,

00:16:04.520 --> 00:16:05.461
or like Owen said,

00:16:06.302 --> 00:16:07.543
it's the fashion right now.

00:16:09.903 --> 00:16:12.284
It was really weird to me, personally.

00:16:12.304 --> 00:16:12.384
Yeah.

00:16:13.933 --> 00:16:14.173
Yeah,

00:16:14.274 --> 00:16:18.639
I think the biggest concern is Canonical's

00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.722
developers are now using AI tools.

00:16:21.822 --> 00:16:24.046
This confirms that they're using AI tools,

00:16:24.066 --> 00:16:27.590
which I think for developing software,

00:16:27.730 --> 00:16:29.831
I think AI can be kind of dangerous,

00:16:29.913 --> 00:16:30.192
right?

00:16:30.232 --> 00:16:33.355
Because there's people submitting...

00:16:34.754 --> 00:16:35.495
pull requests,

00:16:35.514 --> 00:16:39.096
there's people's developers working on

00:16:39.136 --> 00:16:39.856
certain parts.

00:16:40.076 --> 00:16:42.998
We know like these systems are based on

00:16:43.038 --> 00:16:47.179
a dataset and the dataset can be poisoned.

00:16:47.340 --> 00:16:48.539
Like we've already seen it before,

00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:49.821
like even just a couple of

00:16:50.958 --> 00:16:52.980
even just making a bunch of spam websites

00:16:53.019 --> 00:16:53.980
with malware on it.

00:16:54.260 --> 00:16:56.961
And the AI just scans it and then

00:16:57.062 --> 00:16:58.621
acknowledges that as the,

00:16:58.642 --> 00:17:00.462
as being part of its dataset.

00:17:00.503 --> 00:17:03.985
Like it kind of is a bit risky,

00:17:04.045 --> 00:17:05.305
especially because this,

00:17:05.685 --> 00:17:07.546
these AI systems don't really know what's

00:17:07.686 --> 00:17:08.626
right and what's wrong.

00:17:08.666 --> 00:17:10.107
They just kind of are spitting out an

00:17:10.228 --> 00:17:11.887
answer that will please you basically,

00:17:12.989 --> 00:17:15.210
which in a lot of times means it's

00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:16.750
just lying to you.

00:17:16.790 --> 00:17:17.550
So I think,

00:17:21.022 --> 00:17:22.723
It's a little bit of a dangerous choice.

00:17:24.125 --> 00:17:27.048
I think them so openly admitting that they

00:17:27.088 --> 00:17:29.431
like this,

00:17:29.990 --> 00:17:31.472
they're considering allowing their

00:17:31.492 --> 00:17:34.215
developers to do this or acknowledging

00:17:34.256 --> 00:17:36.478
that they are is definitely going to push

00:17:36.498 --> 00:17:38.500
a lot of people away from Ubuntu because

00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:40.922
in the past there's already, like,

00:17:41.122 --> 00:17:43.785
people who are, like,

00:17:45.301 --> 00:17:47.262
very against it because if you remember

00:17:47.323 --> 00:17:49.305
originally it was a very long time ago,

00:17:49.365 --> 00:17:51.826
but they had an Amazon shop integration

00:17:52.747 --> 00:17:54.847
and people were like really sus of it

00:17:54.867 --> 00:17:55.608
because, you know,

00:17:56.108 --> 00:17:57.569
it's sending data to Amazon.

00:17:58.190 --> 00:17:59.290
It was a whole big thing.

00:17:59.770 --> 00:18:00.551
They removed it.

00:18:00.592 --> 00:18:01.972
They haven't done something like that

00:18:02.012 --> 00:18:02.512
since then,

00:18:02.593 --> 00:18:04.433
but it kind of burnt the bridges that

00:18:04.453 --> 00:18:06.736
a lot of people had with Amantu.

00:18:06.796 --> 00:18:11.919
So I think, um, it's, it's kind of,

00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:12.759
uh,

00:18:14.873 --> 00:18:16.194
not a great look for them.

00:18:16.234 --> 00:18:17.136
And I think a lot of people are

00:18:17.156 --> 00:18:19.359
going to be deciding to actually go with

00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:21.163
a different distro instead of sticking

00:18:21.182 --> 00:18:22.526
with Ubuntu,

00:18:22.546 --> 00:18:23.867
which I think a lot of people already

00:18:23.907 --> 00:18:24.788
have because Ubuntu

00:18:25.406 --> 00:18:26.788
people really don't like snaps.

00:18:26.807 --> 00:18:28.528
Like, oh, snaps are disgusting.

00:18:28.588 --> 00:18:29.210
Like, why?

00:18:31.230 --> 00:18:35.114
The loopback devices in the disk thing,

00:18:35.134 --> 00:18:35.795
like, I don't know.

00:18:35.815 --> 00:18:36.494
I just don't like,

00:18:37.516 --> 00:18:40.018
I think snaps are probably the worst

00:18:40.538 --> 00:18:41.679
containerized package.

00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.799
But, you know,

00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:45.823
I think a lot of people find Canonical

00:18:45.843 --> 00:18:47.084
to be pretty controversial.

00:18:47.163 --> 00:18:49.204
So I don't think this is going to

00:18:49.285 --> 00:18:51.487
impact that much, but I think it's,

00:18:52.269 --> 00:18:54.372
it has some knockdown impacts, right?

00:18:54.412 --> 00:18:55.593
Because like you said,

00:18:55.712 --> 00:18:59.496
there's so many distros that base their

00:18:59.516 --> 00:19:00.876
distro on Ubuntu.

00:19:00.916 --> 00:19:02.498
So like the changes that they make,

00:19:02.678 --> 00:19:05.721
like allowing their developers to use AI

00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:08.982
to develop the software can have a

00:19:09.022 --> 00:19:11.865
knock-on impact and introduce security

00:19:11.925 --> 00:19:13.446
issues, like I was saying.

00:19:16.077 --> 00:19:17.459
For sure.

00:19:17.538 --> 00:19:18.719
I don't have too much to add to

00:19:18.739 --> 00:19:18.919
this.

00:19:18.959 --> 00:19:21.000
But real quick before we move on,

00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:22.720
I would be remiss if I didn't point

00:19:22.861 --> 00:19:25.121
out, over at Privacy Guides,

00:19:25.221 --> 00:19:27.001
our official recommendations for an

00:19:27.122 --> 00:19:33.223
operating system are Linux.

00:19:33.304 --> 00:19:35.045
You may be not surprised.

00:19:35.904 --> 00:19:37.205
We recommend Fedora Linux.

00:19:37.605 --> 00:19:39.067
I don't know if these are in order,

00:19:39.106 --> 00:19:39.487
per se.

00:19:40.747 --> 00:19:42.048
But I will say I've used Fedora a

00:19:42.067 --> 00:19:42.608
few times.

00:19:42.828 --> 00:19:43.789
I'm pretty happy with it.

00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:44.789
It's really good.

00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:45.050
Yeah,

00:19:45.070 --> 00:19:46.311
so this is our recommendation for people

00:19:46.332 --> 00:19:47.211
who are new to Linux.

00:19:48.393 --> 00:19:50.434
We do also recommend OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.

00:19:51.134 --> 00:19:52.415
We do recommend Arch Linux,

00:19:52.455 --> 00:19:54.518
which I can already hear all the Arch

00:19:54.637 --> 00:19:55.598
users in the audience.

00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:58.020
If you want an atomic distribution,

00:19:58.080 --> 00:20:00.461
we do recommend Fedora Atomic, which...

00:20:01.603 --> 00:20:02.002
Um,

00:20:02.083 --> 00:20:03.503
it looks like we don't recommend silver

00:20:03.523 --> 00:20:04.584
blue specifically,

00:20:04.624 --> 00:20:05.704
but I know silver blue is one of

00:20:05.724 --> 00:20:06.704
the more popular ones there.

00:20:07.184 --> 00:20:08.345
Nick's OS is another one.

00:20:08.925 --> 00:20:09.846
And then, uh, you know,

00:20:09.865 --> 00:20:11.365
who nicks and tails aren't really kind of

00:20:11.385 --> 00:20:13.346
the things that you would use day to

00:20:13.386 --> 00:20:14.567
day, but, um,

00:20:14.587 --> 00:20:16.107
they are the best for anonymity.

00:20:16.867 --> 00:20:17.409
And, uh,

00:20:17.449 --> 00:20:18.628
I will say as a cubes user,

00:20:18.729 --> 00:20:20.630
it is super, uh,

00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:22.289
there's a very high barrier to entry,

00:20:22.829 --> 00:20:23.911
but you know, it's, um,

00:20:25.017 --> 00:20:26.417
It's very secure, I will say that.

00:20:26.878 --> 00:20:29.161
SecureBlue, KickSecure, again,

00:20:29.201 --> 00:20:30.422
those may not be right for everybody,

00:20:30.481 --> 00:20:32.363
but definitely go check that out on our

00:20:32.383 --> 00:20:35.145
website if y'all are thinking about

00:20:35.205 --> 00:20:36.586
jumping ship from Ubuntu.

00:20:37.887 --> 00:20:39.529
I would say start there as your

00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:42.771
recommendations.

00:20:42.832 --> 00:20:43.192
Real quick,

00:20:43.232 --> 00:20:44.554
I do see a question from Lucas,

00:20:44.713 --> 00:20:47.316
and I think we will take questions a

00:20:47.355 --> 00:20:48.017
little bit later,

00:20:48.037 --> 00:20:48.897
but I just wanted to let you know

00:20:48.917 --> 00:20:51.078
that we did see that, so thank you.

00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:52.200
Do you have anything else to add to

00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:52.780
this story, Jordan?

00:20:56.740 --> 00:20:57.301
I think you're muted.

00:20:57.321 --> 00:20:59.963
Oops, sorry.

00:21:00.604 --> 00:21:00.924
Yeah,

00:21:00.964 --> 00:21:03.487
so there's a comment from Peaceboy John.

00:21:05.469 --> 00:21:06.829
So they said, sadly,

00:21:06.849 --> 00:21:08.750
to answer the video title question, yes,

00:21:08.790 --> 00:21:09.511
sadly, it is.

00:21:10.712 --> 00:21:13.915
It's definitely becoming less popular.

00:21:14.016 --> 00:21:15.717
I remember back in the day,

00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.520
Ubuntu used to be basically like the

00:21:21.738 --> 00:21:23.500
pinnacle of Linux like it used to be

00:21:23.539 --> 00:21:25.462
like the distro that everyone would like

00:21:25.663 --> 00:21:27.744
choose and now it's sort of becoming like

00:21:27.845 --> 00:21:31.450
uh yeah they made a lot of controversial

00:21:31.490 --> 00:21:35.875
decisions um but yeah I don't really have

00:21:36.516 --> 00:21:37.497
much more to add here

00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:42.111
Yeah, I think I will real quick,

00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:44.251
since it's relevant.

00:21:44.951 --> 00:21:47.313
Bam Owen said few grandma-friendly distro

00:21:47.353 --> 00:21:48.232
recommendations there.

00:21:48.252 --> 00:21:49.134
And you were talking about,

00:21:49.153 --> 00:21:50.753
you're thinking about not only what can

00:21:50.773 --> 00:21:51.734
the tech-savvy people do,

00:21:51.775 --> 00:21:52.795
but also everybody else.

00:21:52.815 --> 00:21:53.894
And I think that's really valid.

00:21:55.076 --> 00:21:58.737
I am always championing that mentality

00:21:58.797 --> 00:21:59.837
myself of like, hey,

00:22:00.178 --> 00:22:01.858
that's great that you use this thing and

00:22:01.878 --> 00:22:03.378
you're not affected by this age

00:22:03.398 --> 00:22:04.559
verification law or whatever,

00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.180
but what about everybody else?

00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:07.320
So I really applaud that.

00:22:07.421 --> 00:22:10.142
But one thing worth mentioning

00:22:10.382 --> 00:22:11.843
noting is uh you know privacy is a

00:22:11.903 --> 00:22:15.727
spectrum and personally i think fedora is

00:22:15.767 --> 00:22:19.509
pretty user-friendly um i mean obviously

00:22:19.549 --> 00:22:20.651
there's always going to be certain people

00:22:20.671 --> 00:22:22.192
that do struggle more with technology in

00:22:22.231 --> 00:22:24.334
general but uh i mean like i mentioned

00:22:24.354 --> 00:22:25.974
earlier my wife uses pop os she doesn't

00:22:25.994 --> 00:22:27.336
have any issues with it at all she

00:22:27.356 --> 00:22:28.718
never almost never asks me for

00:22:28.758 --> 00:22:30.799
troubleshoot i think she asked a few

00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:32.000
months ago and that was the first time

00:22:32.020 --> 00:22:33.541
in literal years that she's like needed

00:22:33.561 --> 00:22:34.603
help with something on that so

00:22:35.403 --> 00:22:36.023
Um, I mean,

00:22:36.703 --> 00:22:38.464
pop OS is not an official recommendation,

00:22:38.545 --> 00:22:40.566
but my point is like, it's a spectrum,

00:22:40.605 --> 00:22:40.766
right?

00:22:40.786 --> 00:22:42.446
Like Fedora is not as secure as cubes,

00:22:42.507 --> 00:22:43.886
but I don't think we're telling everybody

00:22:43.906 --> 00:22:45.048
to go out and get a cubes computer.

00:22:45.127 --> 00:22:47.108
Cause that is quite a bit of a

00:22:47.169 --> 00:22:47.429
lift.

00:22:47.528 --> 00:22:49.490
So it's, um, it,

00:22:50.395 --> 00:22:51.957
I think even moving to something like

00:22:52.057 --> 00:22:54.017
Ubuntu, even if they do add the AI,

00:22:54.156 --> 00:22:55.097
even if it's not perfect,

00:22:55.698 --> 00:22:57.419
I would argue is way better than using

00:22:57.479 --> 00:22:59.179
something like windows or, you know,

00:22:59.219 --> 00:23:00.500
moving somebody to a Mac instead of

00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:00.839
windows.

00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:01.180
So,

00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:03.181
which I know there's a price problem there

00:23:03.201 --> 00:23:06.021
for the record, but point being,

00:23:06.122 --> 00:23:07.301
I see you, I do agree with you.

00:23:07.362 --> 00:23:08.303
Like some of these,

00:23:08.542 --> 00:23:10.063
some of these recommendations might be a

00:23:10.103 --> 00:23:13.164
little bit out of reach of the less

00:23:13.184 --> 00:23:13.724
tech savvy,

00:23:13.765 --> 00:23:14.805
but I think there's still a lot of

00:23:14.825 --> 00:23:16.226
good options that do move the needle.

00:23:16.826 --> 00:23:18.926
So it's not always about being perfect.

00:23:18.967 --> 00:23:19.547
Sometimes it's,

00:23:20.939 --> 00:23:22.240
Sometimes it's about outrunning the other

00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:24.142
hiker, I hate to say.

00:23:24.682 --> 00:23:24.962
Yeah,

00:23:25.123 --> 00:23:26.903
and I do think it's important to know,

00:23:26.923 --> 00:23:27.585
like, you know,

00:23:27.605 --> 00:23:29.787
you don't have to use the recommendations

00:23:29.826 --> 00:23:31.268
that Privacy Guides has, right?

00:23:31.307 --> 00:23:33.950
We specifically chose those because they

00:23:34.009 --> 00:23:34.951
offer the best, like,

00:23:35.010 --> 00:23:36.353
privacy and security stuff.

00:23:36.853 --> 00:23:38.134
You need to, you know,

00:23:39.154 --> 00:23:40.296
look at other sources,

00:23:40.635 --> 00:23:43.659
find what you need for your situation,

00:23:43.898 --> 00:23:44.098
like...

00:23:45.338 --> 00:23:46.680
Cause that's the most important thing,

00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:46.960
right?

00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.122
Like if you're not tech savvy,

00:23:49.142 --> 00:23:51.624
then maybe those recommendations aren't

00:23:51.644 --> 00:23:52.384
going to be good for you.

00:23:52.523 --> 00:23:54.066
And there's no point in it being more

00:23:54.105 --> 00:23:55.846
private and secure if you can't use the

00:23:55.906 --> 00:23:56.728
operating system.

00:23:56.847 --> 00:23:59.189
So, um, yeah,

00:23:59.229 --> 00:24:01.550
just definitely don't feel pressured into

00:24:01.651 --> 00:24:03.192
using any specific distro.

00:24:03.211 --> 00:24:06.454
You need to think about what, you know,

00:24:06.494 --> 00:24:07.536
your needs are.

00:24:07.556 --> 00:24:09.436
And if your needs are to use something

00:24:09.477 --> 00:24:11.077
that's a little bit easier to use,

00:24:11.157 --> 00:24:13.819
then definitely don't feel like you're,

00:24:14.340 --> 00:24:14.560
uh,

00:24:16.141 --> 00:24:17.744
added like you know you have to use

00:24:17.765 --> 00:24:21.775
what we recommend for sure well said

00:24:23.288 --> 00:24:23.708
All right.

00:24:23.748 --> 00:24:24.307
On that note,

00:24:24.647 --> 00:24:26.608
we're going to move into some sad news

00:24:26.848 --> 00:24:27.669
coming out of Europe,

00:24:27.950 --> 00:24:30.730
which is Europe is attacking,

00:24:30.851 --> 00:24:31.651
not as a whole,

00:24:31.691 --> 00:24:33.351
but a couple of European countries are

00:24:33.431 --> 00:24:34.551
attacking anonymity right now.

00:24:34.612 --> 00:24:35.811
Well, arguably,

00:24:35.872 --> 00:24:37.792
Europe in general has got some problematic

00:24:38.633 --> 00:24:39.993
laws they're proposing right now.

00:24:40.034 --> 00:24:41.933
But we're going to focus specifically on

00:24:42.013 --> 00:24:42.513
anonymity.

00:24:42.693 --> 00:24:45.674
And first up, this came in first.

00:24:45.755 --> 00:24:46.855
On April twenty third,

00:24:47.556 --> 00:24:50.057
Turkey wants to ban anonymous VPNs.

00:24:52.074 --> 00:24:52.875
And I mean, honestly,

00:24:52.974 --> 00:24:54.015
it's pretty straightforward.

00:24:54.454 --> 00:24:57.935
They want to require VPNs to basically

00:24:57.976 --> 00:24:58.816
keep logs.

00:24:59.415 --> 00:25:00.717
I don't think it's specifically said to

00:25:00.737 --> 00:25:03.217
keep IDs, but basically,

00:25:03.237 --> 00:25:04.778
they don't want anonymous VPNs anymore.

00:25:04.837 --> 00:25:06.657
They want all VPNs to be able to

00:25:06.678 --> 00:25:08.117
be tied back to a user.

00:25:08.137 --> 00:25:10.939
Oh, man.

00:25:11.618 --> 00:25:11.858
OK,

00:25:11.919 --> 00:25:13.740
so the headline is pretty straightforward,

00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:14.799
if I remember correctly here.

00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:15.079
I mean,

00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:16.259
I just read this a couple hours ago.

00:25:16.299 --> 00:25:17.161
I should remember pretty well.

00:25:19.183 --> 00:25:20.865
But there's a – yeah, let's see here.

00:25:22.526 --> 00:25:24.167
So the licensing proposal would add a

00:25:24.208 --> 00:25:24.948
legal ceiling.

00:25:25.147 --> 00:25:25.628
Right now,

00:25:25.709 --> 00:25:27.430
Turkish users can route around blocks.

00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:30.692
A licensing regime would close that door.

00:25:31.373 --> 00:25:33.193
So yeah,

00:25:33.233 --> 00:25:39.499
there's a lot of concerns here about –

00:25:37.136 --> 00:25:38.458
the more veteran listeners in the crowd

00:25:38.498 --> 00:25:40.318
will know that just being under

00:25:40.358 --> 00:25:41.500
surveillance changes people.

00:25:41.539 --> 00:25:42.901
When people know they're being watched,

00:25:42.921 --> 00:25:43.882
they behave differently.

00:25:44.261 --> 00:25:46.123
So not having somewhere that people can go

00:25:46.182 --> 00:25:46.742
to –

00:25:47.585 --> 00:25:50.009
to, to freely research and explore,

00:25:50.048 --> 00:25:50.249
you know,

00:25:50.269 --> 00:25:51.550
that's one of the reasons we're such big

00:25:51.590 --> 00:25:53.012
proponents of anonymity on the internet,

00:25:53.513 --> 00:25:55.636
but also just it's, it's a,

00:25:57.250 --> 00:25:59.030
It's another way to help try to keep

00:25:59.070 --> 00:25:59.991
government in check, right?

00:26:00.112 --> 00:26:02.794
Like censorship is one of the first signs

00:26:02.814 --> 00:26:03.974
that something is not right in your

00:26:03.994 --> 00:26:04.295
country.

00:26:04.315 --> 00:26:05.455
I don't know about one of the first

00:26:05.476 --> 00:26:06.557
signs, but it's up there for sure.

00:26:06.636 --> 00:26:07.317
It's not a good thing.

00:26:07.377 --> 00:26:08.919
So, you know,

00:26:09.019 --> 00:26:13.021
when a country can require VPNs to keep

00:26:13.082 --> 00:26:13.781
logs like this,

00:26:13.882 --> 00:26:16.384
then even if they never actually say, hey,

00:26:16.403 --> 00:26:17.224
block this website,

00:26:17.664 --> 00:26:19.286
they can de facto block it because they

00:26:19.306 --> 00:26:20.146
know everybody who's done it.

00:26:21.615 --> 00:26:23.257
Yeah.

00:26:23.277 --> 00:26:24.416
To the surprise of no one,

00:26:24.576 --> 00:26:28.038
this is being described as a measure to

00:26:28.077 --> 00:26:29.038
help protect the children.

00:26:30.098 --> 00:26:31.339
I haven't seen this argument in a long

00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:31.619
time.

00:26:31.660 --> 00:26:34.141
They said that this has something to do

00:26:34.161 --> 00:26:35.921
about attackers reportedly drawn to

00:26:35.961 --> 00:26:37.021
violent mobile games.

00:26:37.281 --> 00:26:39.403
So we have now regressed back to nineteen

00:26:39.423 --> 00:26:41.042
ninety where we are blaming violent video

00:26:41.063 --> 00:26:42.003
games for all our problems.

00:26:43.163 --> 00:26:45.244
um you know i play boatloads of

00:26:45.305 --> 00:26:47.026
civilization and i have yet to try to

00:26:47.066 --> 00:26:50.047
take over the world i play quite a

00:26:50.086 --> 00:26:51.027
bit of lately i've been playing a lot

00:26:51.067 --> 00:26:52.607
of stardew valley i have yet to move

00:26:52.627 --> 00:26:55.068
to a farm trying to think what else

00:26:55.308 --> 00:26:58.611
um i've played tons of jurassic world i

00:26:58.631 --> 00:27:00.230
have yet to bring dinosaurs back to life

00:27:00.330 --> 00:27:01.672
so i don't really know where they're

00:27:01.692 --> 00:27:03.913
getting all this from but you know we're

00:27:03.932 --> 00:27:04.732
like i said we're back in the

00:27:07.652 --> 00:27:09.213
separate but part of the same law they

00:27:09.253 --> 00:27:10.615
said that they also wanted to add a

00:27:10.776 --> 00:27:14.800
parent control child sim cards which i'm

00:27:14.861 --> 00:27:17.183
not necessarily opposed to that but i i

00:27:17.203 --> 00:27:18.865
would have to see what the implementation

00:27:18.885 --> 00:27:20.528
looks like and also a cap on how

00:27:20.548 --> 00:27:22.289
many mobile numbers a single person can

00:27:22.329 --> 00:27:23.171
register which is

00:27:24.497 --> 00:27:24.856
I don't know,

00:27:24.916 --> 00:27:26.478
that just feels unnecessary to me.

00:27:26.518 --> 00:27:28.700
But yeah, so, I mean,

00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:30.421
that's kind of the thing there is Turkey's

00:27:30.461 --> 00:27:31.121
trying to,

00:27:31.902 --> 00:27:33.623
they interviewed ProtonVPN for this

00:27:33.722 --> 00:27:34.523
particular article.

00:27:34.604 --> 00:27:35.765
So, I mean,

00:27:35.944 --> 00:27:36.785
take it with a grain of salt.

00:27:36.805 --> 00:27:37.826
We also recommend Mulvad.

00:27:37.846 --> 00:27:39.086
We also recommend IVPN.

00:27:39.807 --> 00:27:42.449
But one of the things that I like

00:27:42.489 --> 00:27:45.550
is Proton didn't even try to appease

00:27:45.711 --> 00:27:46.090
Turkey.

00:27:47.071 --> 00:27:48.192
They were basically like, yeah,

00:27:48.252 --> 00:27:49.374
now is the time to sign up.

00:27:49.794 --> 00:27:51.174
Now is the time to download the app

00:27:51.394 --> 00:27:54.317
because once you have it, they can't,

00:27:55.696 --> 00:27:56.137
technically,

00:27:56.157 --> 00:27:57.417
they can't really go in and force you

00:27:57.438 --> 00:27:57.998
to remove it.

00:27:58.278 --> 00:28:00.159
And things like Proton, for example,

00:28:00.219 --> 00:28:03.019
do have built-in censorship resistance.

00:28:03.461 --> 00:28:04.560
MOVAD probably does too.

00:28:04.681 --> 00:28:06.001
I think it requires a little bit more

00:28:06.041 --> 00:28:07.201
manual configuration though.

00:28:07.241 --> 00:28:08.682
But yeah, so I mean...

00:28:10.238 --> 00:28:10.959
And if you have an Android,

00:28:10.979 --> 00:28:12.059
you can always go to their website and

00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.020
download the APK.

00:28:13.121 --> 00:28:16.604
So yeah, that's a thing there.

00:28:17.605 --> 00:28:18.826
And real quick,

00:28:18.865 --> 00:28:21.607
we'll also move over to Greece who wants

00:28:21.627 --> 00:28:23.490
to ban anonymity on social media.

00:28:23.730 --> 00:28:25.411
And specifically, interestingly,

00:28:25.811 --> 00:28:26.471
I'll give them credit.

00:28:26.511 --> 00:28:27.752
They didn't go for Think of the Children.

00:28:28.213 --> 00:28:29.233
They went for Toxicity.

00:28:30.494 --> 00:28:32.576
And I mean this is basically – again,

00:28:32.656 --> 00:28:33.896
the headline is what it says it is.

00:28:34.337 --> 00:28:35.617
They don't want people to be able to

00:28:35.637 --> 00:28:37.038
make anonymous social media accounts

00:28:37.058 --> 00:28:38.480
because they're tired of people being

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:39.840
crappy online.

00:28:41.561 --> 00:28:43.102
My first argument would be I think there

00:28:43.122 --> 00:28:44.123
are a lot of people who are willing

00:28:44.163 --> 00:28:45.824
to be garbage without anonymity.

00:28:46.483 --> 00:28:48.164
We see plenty of people on Facebook using

00:28:48.184 --> 00:28:49.885
their real names and their real faces,

00:28:50.046 --> 00:28:51.366
and they're still being terrible.

00:28:51.386 --> 00:28:53.307
I also – I thought this was such

00:28:53.327 --> 00:28:54.398
a weird –

00:28:55.229 --> 00:28:56.290
This is one of my personal things,

00:28:56.330 --> 00:28:58.653
quoting the minister who spoke to this

00:28:58.692 --> 00:28:58.972
article.

00:28:59.034 --> 00:28:59.894
He said, in ancient Greece,

00:28:59.954 --> 00:29:01.036
everyone could express their opinion

00:29:01.155 --> 00:29:02.116
openly and by name.

00:29:02.376 --> 00:29:03.337
They would raise their hand and share

00:29:03.377 --> 00:29:03.739
their view.

00:29:03.778 --> 00:29:04.960
This should inspire us as we shape a

00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:05.901
new digital democracy.

00:29:06.300 --> 00:29:06.521
Yes,

00:29:06.602 --> 00:29:08.203
but the thing that people always forget

00:29:08.223 --> 00:29:09.644
with this stuff is like back in ancient

00:29:09.684 --> 00:29:10.005
Greece,

00:29:10.546 --> 00:29:11.606
That wasn't written down.

00:29:12.086 --> 00:29:13.749
They didn't sit there and take a roll

00:29:13.788 --> 00:29:15.210
call of everyone who was in the audience.

00:29:15.569 --> 00:29:17.051
They didn't sit there and write down every

00:29:17.071 --> 00:29:18.173
single thing a person was said.

00:29:18.553 --> 00:29:19.193
And more importantly,

00:29:19.233 --> 00:29:20.515
they didn't sit there and sell it to

00:29:20.575 --> 00:29:21.295
advertisers.

00:29:21.816 --> 00:29:22.856
And they didn't sit there and put it

00:29:22.876 --> 00:29:24.417
in this database that you can access from

00:29:24.498 --> 00:29:25.138
anywhere in the world.

00:29:25.159 --> 00:29:27.820
Like these are not one-to-one comparisons

00:29:27.921 --> 00:29:30.103
because even like court records, you know,

00:29:30.202 --> 00:29:30.583
as I say,

00:29:30.603 --> 00:29:31.683
like they didn't sit and write everything

00:29:31.723 --> 00:29:31.904
down.

00:29:31.944 --> 00:29:32.825
Like, yeah, court records,

00:29:32.845 --> 00:29:33.965
they sit and write everything down.

00:29:35.050 --> 00:29:35.351
But again,

00:29:35.391 --> 00:29:36.731
those are not sold to advertisers.

00:29:37.791 --> 00:29:38.532
A thousand years ago,

00:29:38.573 --> 00:29:41.534
that stuff wasn't kept in a data center

00:29:41.913 --> 00:29:42.513
where you could, again,

00:29:42.554 --> 00:29:43.575
pull it from anywhere in the world.

00:29:43.875 --> 00:29:44.595
Back in the day,

00:29:44.994 --> 00:29:46.296
if I lived in California and I wanted

00:29:46.336 --> 00:29:47.777
information on somebody from New York,

00:29:48.076 --> 00:29:50.018
I had to fly to New York and

00:29:50.057 --> 00:29:50.458
get it.

00:29:51.198 --> 00:29:52.798
And the internet has removed all these

00:29:52.818 --> 00:29:53.179
barriers.

00:29:53.219 --> 00:29:54.599
That's not really a one-to-one thing.

00:29:56.916 --> 00:29:58.837
I will say that they do make some

00:29:58.877 --> 00:30:00.619
good points about – they talk about how

00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:01.599
with elections coming up,

00:30:01.779 --> 00:30:02.621
Greece has a real problem,

00:30:02.641 --> 00:30:03.922
which I think everybody does these days.

00:30:04.582 --> 00:30:06.462
There's a real problem with fake news,

00:30:06.523 --> 00:30:08.325
disinformation, trolls.

00:30:09.025 --> 00:30:10.105
We know that is a thing.

00:30:10.726 --> 00:30:13.248
Governments around the world on –

00:30:13.407 --> 00:30:15.827
Every end of the political spectrum are

00:30:15.887 --> 00:30:17.628
very heavily engaged in propaganda,

00:30:17.669 --> 00:30:19.749
trying to sway public opinions, trying to,

00:30:20.868 --> 00:30:22.609
you know, spread certain narratives.

00:30:22.690 --> 00:30:25.170
And I will say,

00:30:25.829 --> 00:30:27.891
not that I'm encouraging it,

00:30:27.911 --> 00:30:29.070
but I do think it was funny that

00:30:29.191 --> 00:30:31.191
when Twitter suddenly decided to start

00:30:31.230 --> 00:30:32.751
saying what country everybody was based

00:30:32.791 --> 00:30:33.071
out of,

00:30:33.511 --> 00:30:36.612
it's amazing how many American accounts

00:30:36.672 --> 00:30:38.593
were suddenly based out of, like, Moscow.

00:30:38.813 --> 00:30:38.992
But...

00:30:40.452 --> 00:30:41.692
I don't think that's a uniquely American

00:30:41.732 --> 00:30:41.973
thing.

00:30:42.054 --> 00:30:43.513
I don't think that's a uniquely left or

00:30:43.574 --> 00:30:44.094
right thing.

00:30:44.894 --> 00:30:46.234
I also don't think it's enough to really

00:30:47.154 --> 00:30:48.095
justify this.

00:30:48.815 --> 00:30:50.275
I think that's a very dangerous road that

00:30:50.295 --> 00:30:51.016
they're headed down.

00:30:51.076 --> 00:30:52.836
But yeah,

00:30:53.556 --> 00:30:55.576
that is unfortunately what's going on in

00:30:55.656 --> 00:30:56.396
Europe right now.

00:30:57.876 --> 00:30:59.357
Did you did you see anything in these

00:30:59.377 --> 00:31:00.817
articles that I missed, Jordan?

00:31:02.309 --> 00:31:02.589
Oh, no,

00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:04.531
I think that was a really good recap

00:31:04.592 --> 00:31:05.673
of what's going on.

00:31:05.874 --> 00:31:06.173
I mean,

00:31:07.355 --> 00:31:10.738
Peace Boy John for twenty four said in

00:31:10.758 --> 00:31:11.358
the chat, you know,

00:31:11.378 --> 00:31:14.422
violence in video games is the biggest

00:31:14.501 --> 00:31:17.884
excuse by far for fascism control over our

00:31:17.924 --> 00:31:18.786
freedom and privacy.

00:31:19.426 --> 00:31:20.728
Yeah, I think like, you know.

00:31:21.178 --> 00:31:23.759
it's an easy, it's such an easy scapegoat.

00:31:24.038 --> 00:31:25.799
I think what, what we used to see,

00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:27.079
I wasn't around back then,

00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:28.601
but I'm going to assume this is what

00:31:28.881 --> 00:31:30.780
I'm going to, from research,

00:31:30.842 --> 00:31:33.521
I guess I can say, uh, the, uh,

00:31:35.103 --> 00:31:36.903
people used to say that about television,

00:31:36.943 --> 00:31:38.844
like, oh, like, you know,

00:31:38.884 --> 00:31:40.125
you're watching all this TV.

00:31:40.144 --> 00:31:41.904
It's going to turn you into a violent

00:31:41.986 --> 00:31:43.786
criminal if you're watching all these like

00:31:43.865 --> 00:31:44.866
violent shows.

00:31:45.166 --> 00:31:45.267
Um,

00:31:47.563 --> 00:31:48.403
And as far as I know,

00:31:48.463 --> 00:31:49.423
like there's no,

00:31:49.703 --> 00:31:51.345
there's actually no evidence that that's

00:31:51.404 --> 00:31:52.065
even true.

00:31:52.506 --> 00:31:54.227
So, you know, there's like,

00:31:54.527 --> 00:31:56.387
there's always these extreme cases where

00:31:56.407 --> 00:31:59.490
there's like someone who's like a serial

00:31:59.529 --> 00:32:02.151
killer and they like enjoyed GTA five.

00:32:02.211 --> 00:32:04.912
And it's like the correlation doesn't

00:32:05.012 --> 00:32:06.292
equal causation there.

00:32:06.353 --> 00:32:10.556
You know, like it's irrelevant, right?

00:32:10.675 --> 00:32:12.957
Did you have something you wanted to add?

00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:13.819
No,

00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:14.621
I was just going to back up what

00:32:14.641 --> 00:32:15.301
you were saying.

00:32:15.422 --> 00:32:18.547
It's funny because I do listen to a

00:32:18.567 --> 00:32:19.288
lot of true crime,

00:32:19.768 --> 00:32:21.570
and they actually know when there's a

00:32:21.631 --> 00:32:22.951
serial killer that it's like, yeah,

00:32:23.031 --> 00:32:24.413
he was really – like Jeffrey Dahmer

00:32:24.453 --> 00:32:26.897
historically was really into – I think it

00:32:26.917 --> 00:32:27.838
was The Exorcism III.

00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:30.300
And they know that because it is so

00:32:30.381 --> 00:32:30.901
unusual.

00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:32.922
It's like normally they're not the

00:32:32.942 --> 00:32:33.442
stereotype.

00:32:33.461 --> 00:32:34.561
I mean there's several different serial

00:32:34.602 --> 00:32:35.403
killer stereotypes,

00:32:35.442 --> 00:32:37.423
but it's not always like the person who's

00:32:37.442 --> 00:32:39.203
like super into horror movies and stuff

00:32:39.223 --> 00:32:39.523
like that.

00:32:39.544 --> 00:32:41.585
It's like – I mean look at Dennis

00:32:41.625 --> 00:32:42.464
Rader, BTK.

00:32:42.785 --> 00:32:44.205
Dude was a freaking Boy Scout leader.

00:32:44.266 --> 00:32:45.046
He went to church.

00:32:45.125 --> 00:32:46.007
I think he was a deacon at his

00:32:46.047 --> 00:32:46.307
church.

00:32:46.346 --> 00:32:49.587
Like it's – I mean slightly off topic,

00:32:49.607 --> 00:32:51.648
but it's not an indicator.

00:32:51.689 --> 00:32:53.308
And especially when you think of like how

00:32:53.369 --> 00:32:54.270
many –

00:32:55.140 --> 00:32:56.480
this past year has been like a huge

00:32:56.520 --> 00:32:57.401
year for horror movies.

00:32:57.760 --> 00:32:58.922
How many people went and saw bring her

00:32:58.942 --> 00:33:00.903
back and then didn't go home and like

00:33:00.923 --> 00:33:02.763
kill somebody, you know, it's just, it's,

00:33:02.884 --> 00:33:04.684
it's cherry picking the things of like,

00:33:05.005 --> 00:33:06.726
I know I don't want to downplay it

00:33:06.945 --> 00:33:07.346
or anything,

00:33:07.385 --> 00:33:08.727
but there was a shooter recently who like

00:33:08.767 --> 00:33:09.948
made a simulator in Roblox.

00:33:10.008 --> 00:33:11.909
I think how many millions of people play

00:33:11.949 --> 00:33:14.309
Roblox Roblox and don't do something like

00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:14.470
that.

00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:15.810
And I'm not trying to let Roblox off

00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:16.050
the hook.

00:33:16.090 --> 00:33:17.131
I know they've got other problems,

00:33:17.171 --> 00:33:18.231
but yeah, it's,

00:33:18.352 --> 00:33:19.132
it's just like you're saying,

00:33:19.152 --> 00:33:21.093
it's like selectively cherry picking like,

00:33:21.513 --> 00:33:22.614
Oh, this makes it look bad.

00:33:22.634 --> 00:33:23.434
And it's like, yeah, but that's,

00:33:23.474 --> 00:33:23.954
doesn't it?

00:33:24.315 --> 00:33:26.195
they're not necessarily related like that.

00:33:26.236 --> 00:33:28.256
So.

00:33:28.336 --> 00:33:29.297
Yeah, a hundred percent.

00:33:29.457 --> 00:33:31.557
Um, I mean, this is just like, uh,

00:33:32.998 --> 00:33:33.698
I think with the,

00:33:33.917 --> 00:33:35.939
with the VPN thing as well, like,

00:33:36.199 --> 00:33:37.859
I think this is where we see a

00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:38.539
lot of these,

00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.780
the issues of these centralized platforms

00:33:40.820 --> 00:33:42.861
like Google play and the app store, right?

00:33:42.881 --> 00:33:43.961
Because like you said,

00:33:44.342 --> 00:33:45.961
people are kind of rushing to download

00:33:45.981 --> 00:33:48.923
this because like the Turkish government

00:33:49.063 --> 00:33:50.824
is kind of

00:33:51.698 --> 00:33:54.298
they can kind of compel Apple or Google

00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:56.840
into banning a lot of these things.

00:33:56.861 --> 00:33:57.801
Like we already saw that.

00:33:57.882 --> 00:33:58.501
I think there was,

00:33:59.402 --> 00:34:00.843
when you did your interview with, uh,

00:34:00.982 --> 00:34:01.743
Cindy Cohen,

00:34:01.824 --> 00:34:04.204
she mentioned there's an ongoing legal

00:34:04.244 --> 00:34:05.965
case in the U S about the U

00:34:06.105 --> 00:34:08.387
S government forcing, uh,

00:34:09.427 --> 00:34:12.510
a app that was used to track ice

00:34:12.690 --> 00:34:13.831
agents, um,

00:34:13.891 --> 00:34:15.351
to be removed from the app store.

00:34:16.072 --> 00:34:17.132
And, you know, it's a tool,

00:34:17.213 --> 00:34:18.793
it's a tool of censorship really.

00:34:19.333 --> 00:34:19.373
Um,

00:34:20.364 --> 00:34:22.067
And maybe there were legitimate reasons

00:34:22.106 --> 00:34:23.047
for that being removed,

00:34:23.168 --> 00:34:25.809
but it's clear that it's used as a

00:34:25.829 --> 00:34:29.034
method to control the access to things

00:34:29.074 --> 00:34:30.454
people can run on their devices,

00:34:30.514 --> 00:34:30.755
which

00:34:32.244 --> 00:34:35.445
seems not great.

00:34:36.067 --> 00:34:38.208
So in this case, I think, you know,

00:34:38.268 --> 00:34:40.007
it's good that ProtonVPN is,

00:34:40.307 --> 00:34:41.628
they're kind of like one of the only

00:34:41.688 --> 00:34:43.789
companies that are sort of actually

00:34:44.030 --> 00:34:45.510
putting their money where their mouth is

00:34:45.570 --> 00:34:47.751
and providing a free VPN service.

00:34:47.771 --> 00:34:50.092
Like I'm sure there's loads of people in

00:34:50.152 --> 00:34:51.092
countries where there's a lot of

00:34:51.152 --> 00:34:53.614
censorship using their

00:34:54.577 --> 00:34:56.418
using their free VPN to bypass the

00:34:56.438 --> 00:34:56.978
firewalls.

00:34:56.998 --> 00:34:57.657
And now it's like,

00:34:57.757 --> 00:34:58.777
you don't even need an account.

00:34:58.818 --> 00:35:00.559
You can just use it as a guest.

00:35:01.338 --> 00:35:02.880
So it is,

00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:05.601
it's really good to see that they're doing

00:35:05.621 --> 00:35:05.860
that.

00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:09.661
But yeah, I think it's,

00:35:10.081 --> 00:35:11.663
unfortunately there's been a couple,

00:35:11.722 --> 00:35:13.143
I think it was the UK that kind

00:35:13.202 --> 00:35:17.585
of has pushed this whole like social media

00:35:17.644 --> 00:35:19.125
anonymity ban thing.

00:35:19.806 --> 00:35:20.726
And then Australia,

00:35:20.806 --> 00:35:22.666
and then there's US states that are doing

00:35:22.786 --> 00:35:22.867
it.

00:35:22.967 --> 00:35:23.447
And then there's,

00:35:24.206 --> 00:35:24.907
you know,

00:35:25.168 --> 00:35:26.570
all sorts of countries that are doing this

00:35:26.630 --> 00:35:28.253
stuff now, which kind of sucks.

00:35:28.333 --> 00:35:31.097
But yeah,

00:35:31.117 --> 00:35:32.619
it feels like every week there's like a

00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.503
new story for age verification or like

00:35:35.943 --> 00:35:36.684
something like that.

00:35:36.885 --> 00:35:37.126
Yeah.

00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.342
Yeah, for the record,

00:35:40.382 --> 00:35:41.702
I think Australia was first and

00:35:41.742 --> 00:35:42.784
everybody's been copying them.

00:35:42.804 --> 00:35:44.704
But yeah, the UK has definitely, I think,

00:35:44.764 --> 00:35:45.726
taken it a lot further.

00:35:45.806 --> 00:35:47.706
They've openly floated the idea of banning

00:35:47.746 --> 00:35:50.648
VPNs and yeah.

00:35:51.010 --> 00:35:52.550
Okay, I think it was the, yeah,

00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:54.291
the UK did, it was,

00:35:55.052 --> 00:35:56.494
I think the UK was blocking...

00:35:58.666 --> 00:35:59.708
uh, adult content.

00:35:59.728 --> 00:36:01.391
And then Australia did the social media

00:36:01.411 --> 00:36:01.710
ban.

00:36:02.030 --> 00:36:02.271
Yeah.

00:36:02.592 --> 00:36:03.713
I think that might be what it was.

00:36:03.994 --> 00:36:04.434
Gotcha.

00:36:04.454 --> 00:36:06.998
Social media is probably worse though,

00:36:07.157 --> 00:36:09.179
because that kind of affects a lot more

00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:09.501
people.

00:36:09.561 --> 00:36:09.800
Right.

00:36:10.943 --> 00:36:11.103
Um,

00:36:13.416 --> 00:36:13.516
Yeah,

00:36:13.536 --> 00:36:15.757
I don't know what our government is doing.

00:36:15.978 --> 00:36:16.378
Help me.

00:36:16.579 --> 00:36:17.639
Please help me.

00:36:17.659 --> 00:36:20.963
Same.

00:36:20.983 --> 00:36:21.764
Lucas here said,

00:36:22.103 --> 00:36:23.344
I used to live in a sanctioned country

00:36:23.364 --> 00:36:25.447
and paying for a VPN was not possible.

00:36:26.188 --> 00:36:28.889
Yeah, I mean, I know there is Tor.

00:36:29.431 --> 00:36:30.070
Tor, I think,

00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:31.853
is sometimes a little bit easier to block,

00:36:31.893 --> 00:36:34.474
but also has more...

00:36:34.574 --> 00:36:38.177
It also has the openly available proxies

00:36:38.197 --> 00:36:39.460
and workarounds, but...

00:36:40.358 --> 00:36:40.798
Yeah,

00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:43.601
he said it's great having ProtonVPN for

00:36:43.621 --> 00:36:43.882
free.

00:36:43.942 --> 00:36:45.262
So yeah, that's super awesome.

00:36:45.822 --> 00:36:47.143
It's also not to like get this too

00:36:47.164 --> 00:36:47.744
far off topic,

00:36:47.764 --> 00:36:49.045
but we are big fans of things like

00:36:49.065 --> 00:36:51.146
Monero to try and pay for things

00:36:51.208 --> 00:36:52.248
anonymously because those are

00:36:52.268 --> 00:36:53.889
significantly harder to sanction by

00:36:53.949 --> 00:36:55.130
governments who try to do this kind of

00:36:55.150 --> 00:36:55.570
stuff, so.

00:36:56.815 --> 00:36:57.195
Yeah,

00:36:57.436 --> 00:37:00.960
I think it's actually quite bad when

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.061
there's, you know,

00:37:02.382 --> 00:37:05.465
the sanctions like that because a lot of

00:37:05.505 --> 00:37:06.847
times it's like, you know,

00:37:07.268 --> 00:37:09.811
even if your account is detected from

00:37:09.891 --> 00:37:11.432
originating from a country that's

00:37:11.452 --> 00:37:11.952
sanctioned,

00:37:11.992 --> 00:37:18.442
it basically –

00:37:13.356 --> 00:37:15.677
your account is immediately blocked on a

00:37:15.717 --> 00:37:16.998
lot of services and stuff.

00:37:17.059 --> 00:37:19.820
So it is definitely a problem.

00:37:21.822 --> 00:37:24.123
It's good that like ProtonVPN has a way

00:37:24.163 --> 00:37:25.023
for people to do that.

00:37:25.083 --> 00:37:27.485
I think it's definitely an issue.

00:37:27.505 --> 00:37:28.646
Like people don't really think,

00:37:28.746 --> 00:37:30.307
cause like a lot of us,

00:37:31.208 --> 00:37:33.070
at least on the privacy guide team are

00:37:33.090 --> 00:37:34.891
from, you know, countries where there's,

00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:36.561
No sanctions,

00:37:36.641 --> 00:37:39.681
no major internet restrictions.

00:37:40.083 --> 00:37:44.364
Well, anyway, you know,

00:37:44.965 --> 00:37:46.606
sometimes it is good to understand there's

00:37:46.666 --> 00:37:48.487
other people that also have different

00:37:48.527 --> 00:37:49.007
needs.

00:37:50.869 --> 00:37:51.108
Yeah,

00:37:51.469 --> 00:37:53.650
it's definitely good what Proton is doing

00:37:53.731 --> 00:37:56.952
for those countries.

00:37:56.992 --> 00:37:57.652
For sure.

00:37:59.146 --> 00:38:00.186
All right.

00:38:00.206 --> 00:38:00.807
On that note,

00:38:00.927 --> 00:38:02.467
I think that's all we have to say

00:38:02.507 --> 00:38:03.208
on that story.

00:38:03.268 --> 00:38:04.528
So I'm going to turn it over to

00:38:04.628 --> 00:38:07.510
Jordan here to tell us about this exciting

00:38:07.590 --> 00:38:10.369
new Linux vulnerability that I've seen pop

00:38:10.409 --> 00:38:11.610
up in quite a few of the headlines.

00:38:11.690 --> 00:38:14.612
So Jordan, why don't you take it away?

00:38:14.992 --> 00:38:15.771
Yes, thank you.

00:38:15.851 --> 00:38:18.793
So this one is kind of been floating

00:38:18.833 --> 00:38:21.074
around and just to like,

00:38:21.554 --> 00:38:22.653
I guess for people that have been

00:38:22.713 --> 00:38:24.474
following a lot of Linux vulnerabilities

00:38:24.514 --> 00:38:25.195
in the past,

00:38:25.295 --> 00:38:28.815
this is sort of a continuation of

00:38:29.994 --> 00:38:30.733
you know,

00:38:30.793 --> 00:38:34.835
vulnerabilities in Linux that local

00:38:34.875 --> 00:38:37.076
privilege escalation vulnerabilities in

00:38:37.115 --> 00:38:42.916
Linux that have been basically using a

00:38:42.956 --> 00:38:49.239
specific vulnerability in Linux, right?

00:38:49.259 --> 00:38:51.898
So before there was dirty cow and dirty

00:38:51.958 --> 00:38:52.398
pipe.

00:38:52.438 --> 00:38:53.739
So if you have seen those before,

00:38:53.780 --> 00:38:54.820
this is a similar thing.

00:38:55.855 --> 00:38:58.295
I'm going to kind of read from their

00:38:58.356 --> 00:38:59.856
press release because, you know,

00:38:59.896 --> 00:39:02.217
I'm not the most – I'm not a

00:39:02.277 --> 00:39:03.137
security researcher.

00:39:03.217 --> 00:39:05.257
I'm not the most knowledgeable about this.

00:39:05.297 --> 00:39:07.318
So I'm going to kind of just quote

00:39:07.378 --> 00:39:09.679
a lot from this article here.

00:39:10.699 --> 00:39:14.161
And you can take – we can kind

00:39:14.201 --> 00:39:15.202
of discuss after.

00:39:15.902 --> 00:39:18.742
So basically this is a –

00:39:18.902 --> 00:39:20.423
local privilege escalation.

00:39:20.503 --> 00:39:23.126
So that means it's not a remote privilege

00:39:23.166 --> 00:39:26.168
escalation, which is much more damaging,

00:39:26.228 --> 00:39:26.467
right?

00:39:26.507 --> 00:39:28.710
So you need to have local access to

00:39:28.730 --> 00:39:29.269
the machine,

00:39:29.989 --> 00:39:31.711
which could mean that

00:39:34.248 --> 00:39:35.851
It affects more shared hosting

00:39:35.871 --> 00:39:37.012
environments, for instance,

00:39:37.052 --> 00:39:40.036
where there's multiple users on a single

00:39:40.076 --> 00:39:40.456
system.

00:39:41.117 --> 00:39:42.818
And when we talk about local privilege

00:39:42.898 --> 00:39:43.519
escalation,

00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.722
we mean going from a regular user,

00:39:46.163 --> 00:39:48.425
unprivileged user, to a privileged user.

00:39:48.485 --> 00:39:51.048
So going from a user account to a

00:39:51.108 --> 00:39:51.989
root user account.

00:39:52.876 --> 00:39:54.356
And now I'm just going to quote from

00:39:54.617 --> 00:39:56.277
the press release here, uh,

00:39:56.336 --> 00:39:58.077
who is affected if your kernel was built

00:39:58.117 --> 00:39:59.918
between.

00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:01.358
And the patch,

00:40:01.478 --> 00:40:03.420
which covers essentially every mainstream

00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:04.420
Linux distribution,

00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:09.442
you are in scope copy fail requires only

00:40:09.561 --> 00:40:11.742
an unprivileged local user account,

00:40:12.282 --> 00:40:13.264
no network access,

00:40:13.744 --> 00:40:15.043
no kernel debugging features,

00:40:15.164 --> 00:40:18.385
no pre-installed primitives and the kernel

00:40:18.806 --> 00:40:19.846
crypto API.

00:40:20.481 --> 00:40:22.940
AF underscore ALG ships enabled in

00:40:22.981 --> 00:40:25.041
essentially every mainstream distros

00:40:25.222 --> 00:40:26.242
default config.

00:40:26.802 --> 00:40:29.422
So the entire twenty seventeen to patch

00:40:29.463 --> 00:40:31.882
window is in play out of the box.

00:40:32.603 --> 00:40:34.704
And they also discussed here that

00:40:35.224 --> 00:40:37.244
distributions we directly verified.

00:40:37.344 --> 00:40:39.925
So twenty four point oh four LTS Ubuntu,

00:40:40.344 --> 00:40:41.764
Amazon Linux twenty twenty three,

00:40:41.945 --> 00:40:43.666
RHEL ten point one.

00:40:44.945 --> 00:40:46.005
Yeah, RHEL ten point one.

00:40:46.724 --> 00:40:48.344
Sousa, sixteen.

00:40:48.666 --> 00:40:53.009
So those were like kernel six point twelve

00:40:53.048 --> 00:40:54.489
to six point eighteen.

00:40:55.911 --> 00:40:57.992
So that is, you know,

00:40:58.012 --> 00:40:59.213
it affects quite a lot of things.

00:40:59.835 --> 00:41:02.637
And it also specifies which users are most

00:41:02.717 --> 00:41:03.277
impacted.

00:41:03.297 --> 00:41:06.019
So multi-tenant user Linux hosts.

00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.141
So like, you know, shared dev boxes,

00:41:09.202 --> 00:41:10.023
basically where there's

00:41:11.391 --> 00:41:13.472
multiple users on the same system that are

00:41:13.632 --> 00:41:17.697
unprivileged um which basically multiple

00:41:17.797 --> 00:41:19.938
users are sharing a single kernel that

00:41:19.958 --> 00:41:22.702
could be a user could use this exploit

00:41:22.742 --> 00:41:24.824
to basically gain root user privilege

00:41:25.344 --> 00:41:30.188
kubernetes and container clusters so uh if

00:41:30.208 --> 00:41:32.550
you're running a kubernetes cluster then

00:41:32.731 --> 00:41:34.432
it's possible that one of the containers

00:41:35.112 --> 00:41:36.614
if it had this exploit it could

00:41:37.329 --> 00:41:41.530
gain root access, and access the host,

00:41:41.610 --> 00:41:42.190
basically.

00:41:42.670 --> 00:41:45.592
And that is kind of concerning.

00:41:45.811 --> 00:41:47.652
CI runners and build farms.

00:41:47.692 --> 00:41:48.391
So basically,

00:41:49.893 --> 00:41:51.813
CIs are basically the system that

00:41:51.932 --> 00:41:53.994
developers use to automatically build

00:41:55.114 --> 00:41:57.153
packages based on their code.

00:41:57.853 --> 00:42:00.235
So these automatically run after merge

00:42:00.434 --> 00:42:02.735
requests are made.

00:42:03.456 --> 00:42:05.135
So basically, it can possibly...

00:42:06.425 --> 00:42:09.567
you know, insert malware into the,

00:42:13.869 --> 00:42:14.929
it could basically, you know,

00:42:14.969 --> 00:42:17.871
have a PR request that basically allows

00:42:18.612 --> 00:42:20.773
the user to gain root access to the

00:42:20.813 --> 00:42:21.153
runner,

00:42:22.135 --> 00:42:23.815
which can affect

00:42:24.376 --> 00:42:26.059
If the runner is, you know,

00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:28.661
shared by other systems,

00:42:29.262 --> 00:42:31.503
cloud software as a service running user

00:42:31.543 --> 00:42:31.885
code.

00:42:32.184 --> 00:42:34.867
So like notebook hosts, agent sandboxes,

00:42:34.887 --> 00:42:35.989
serverless functions.

00:42:36.608 --> 00:42:37.869
And then they also talk about like

00:42:37.911 --> 00:42:39.652
standard Linux servers,

00:42:39.692 --> 00:42:43.856
single tenant production is not really as

00:42:43.876 --> 00:42:44.056
popular.

00:42:44.965 --> 00:42:46.565
much of a concern because you'd need to

00:42:46.585 --> 00:42:48.967
have stolen credentials to do this.

00:42:49.387 --> 00:42:51.686
And single user laptops and workstations,

00:42:52.126 --> 00:42:54.407
which is probably the majority of privacy

00:42:54.427 --> 00:42:55.367
guides users here,

00:42:56.208 --> 00:42:59.708
is a low risk because you're the only

00:43:00.148 --> 00:43:00.929
user, basically.

00:43:01.628 --> 00:43:03.268
So you would need, basically,

00:43:03.289 --> 00:43:05.809
if someone gained access to your system,

00:43:05.849 --> 00:43:06.530
they could do this.

00:43:06.570 --> 00:43:08.010
But that's not very likely.

00:43:08.030 --> 00:43:09.490
That's not very in scope for a lot

00:43:09.510 --> 00:43:09.891
of people.

00:43:12.528 --> 00:43:16.114
So I guess we can kind of go

00:43:16.195 --> 00:43:20.282
into the write-up of how this works.

00:43:20.302 --> 00:43:21.123
I'm just going to read...

00:43:23.617 --> 00:43:25.298
sort of how this works.

00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:28.161
So AF-ALG,

00:43:28.201 --> 00:43:30.862
which is the exploitable kernel module,

00:43:30.942 --> 00:43:32.943
is a socket type that exposes the kernel's

00:43:33.003 --> 00:43:35.804
crypto subsystem to unprivileged user

00:43:35.844 --> 00:43:36.204
space.

00:43:36.284 --> 00:43:37.545
A user can open a socket,

00:43:38.005 --> 00:43:40.927
bind to any authenticated encryption with

00:43:40.967 --> 00:43:42.849
associated data templates,

00:43:43.349 --> 00:43:45.610
and invoke encryption or decryption on

00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:46.570
arbitrary data.

00:43:47.110 --> 00:43:48.532
No privileges required.

00:43:50.157 --> 00:43:56.541
And basically it uses the splice core to

00:43:56.581 --> 00:43:59.483
transfer data file descriptors and pipes

00:43:59.563 --> 00:44:00.384
without copying,

00:44:01.804 --> 00:44:05.806
passing page cache pages by reference.

00:44:05.847 --> 00:44:08.809
So splicing a file into...

00:44:09.389 --> 00:44:10.769
So it says when a user splices a

00:44:10.809 --> 00:44:13.291
file into a pipe and then into AF-ALG

00:44:13.351 --> 00:44:15.773
socket, the sockets... Oh my goodness,

00:44:15.813 --> 00:44:17.114
this is like extremely...

00:44:18.971 --> 00:44:20.012
extremely complicated.

00:44:20.052 --> 00:44:21.773
So I think if you want to read

00:44:22.373 --> 00:44:24.275
a little bit more about how this

00:44:24.315 --> 00:44:25.476
specifically works,

00:44:25.577 --> 00:44:27.960
then definitely check out the press

00:44:27.980 --> 00:44:28.340
release,

00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:29.400
because I'm not going to read the whole

00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:29.880
thing here.

00:44:31.342 --> 00:44:32.403
But last I checked,

00:44:32.463 --> 00:44:36.487
this is still effective in basically all

00:44:36.507 --> 00:44:37.869
the stable Linux gestures,

00:44:37.889 --> 00:44:42.233
like Debian and RHEL.

00:44:43.586 --> 00:44:44.807
Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

00:44:44.867 --> 00:44:47.471
So yeah, this is like slightly concerning,

00:44:47.530 --> 00:44:48.652
but I think for a lot of our

00:44:48.711 --> 00:44:48.992
users,

00:44:49.052 --> 00:44:50.974
I don't think this is particularly of an

00:44:51.034 --> 00:44:53.536
issue because, you know, it does allow,

00:44:53.617 --> 00:44:57.340
it does need one user to basically have

00:45:00.643 --> 00:45:02.846
like local account access,

00:45:02.885 --> 00:45:04.307
which is not really

00:45:06.146 --> 00:45:08.228
not really that useful it's also good to

00:45:08.268 --> 00:45:09.769
mention that this is like we kind of

00:45:09.789 --> 00:45:11.632
talked about this last week but um with

00:45:11.652 --> 00:45:14.974
the claude mythos stuff um this exploit

00:45:15.014 --> 00:45:17.876
itself was actually found using an ai

00:45:17.896 --> 00:45:21.378
assisted method so we're kind of seeing

00:45:21.398 --> 00:45:25.782
that more and more um basically it was

00:45:25.902 --> 00:45:29.286
able to identify and audit the whole

00:45:29.326 --> 00:45:33.869
crypto subsystem and find this

00:45:34.230 --> 00:45:35.391
vulnerability basically

00:45:36.132 --> 00:45:39.173
so you know i think that's interesting i

00:45:39.193 --> 00:45:40.373
think we're going to see more and more

00:45:40.414 --> 00:45:43.755
of these like ai assisted exploits because

00:45:44.376 --> 00:45:50.018
you know it's definitely able to analyze

00:45:50.059 --> 00:45:53.541
the code a lot more easily than you

00:45:53.561 --> 00:45:54.822
know because you kind of have to be

00:45:55.021 --> 00:45:58.443
a pretty pretty uh

00:46:00.637 --> 00:46:01.719
experienced, uh,

00:46:01.818 --> 00:46:04.081
pen tester and security researcher to like

00:46:04.541 --> 00:46:05.681
find these exploits.

00:46:05.722 --> 00:46:06.382
So, you know,

00:46:06.463 --> 00:46:08.023
if someone's not looking that carefully,

00:46:08.063 --> 00:46:10.085
then it's definitely possible that

00:46:11.246 --> 00:46:11.666
they'll,

00:46:13.108 --> 00:46:14.889
it really needs like someone to look quite

00:46:14.929 --> 00:46:16.150
closely to find these things.

00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:19.474
So using an AI model definitely allows

00:46:19.494 --> 00:46:19.693
that.

00:46:19.833 --> 00:46:21.576
I think what I've heard though,

00:46:21.596 --> 00:46:24.358
with these AI audit systems is that they

00:46:24.398 --> 00:46:25.739
do cost a lot of money.

00:46:25.898 --> 00:46:28.882
Like they cost a lot of basically, uh,

00:46:31.103 --> 00:46:34.666
They cost a lot of tokens, I believe.

00:46:34.726 --> 00:46:37.027
That's what they called in the AI sphere.

00:46:37.067 --> 00:46:40.608
Like you need to basically use tokens and

00:46:40.628 --> 00:46:43.130
that costs a lot of money to basically

00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:44.550
analyze every line of code.

00:46:45.152 --> 00:46:47.773
So this is probably not the cheapest way

00:46:47.813 --> 00:46:48.413
of doing things.

00:46:48.472 --> 00:46:49.793
I feel like if you're spending twenty

00:46:49.813 --> 00:46:51.875
thousand dollars on like an AI assisted

00:46:51.974 --> 00:46:52.775
audit, it's like.

00:46:53.916 --> 00:46:55.956
Why don't you just like pay someone to

00:46:55.996 --> 00:46:56.458
do that?

00:46:56.538 --> 00:46:57.117
But I mean.

00:46:58.467 --> 00:47:00.748
I guess it's easier because you don't have

00:47:00.768 --> 00:47:02.911
to deal with another human, so maybe.

00:47:03.851 --> 00:47:04.833
But I'm not really sure.

00:47:05.313 --> 00:47:09.838
This is kind of an ongoing thing with

00:47:09.898 --> 00:47:11.199
page cache corruption.

00:47:12.061 --> 00:47:13.902
So this was the same issue that Dirty

00:47:13.942 --> 00:47:15.344
Pipe and Dirty Cow had.

00:47:16.684 --> 00:47:17.985
But in a lot of those cases,

00:47:18.027 --> 00:47:18.286
it was...

00:47:20.242 --> 00:47:21.563
There was a lot more specific

00:47:22.065 --> 00:47:23.304
requirements, basically.

00:47:23.405 --> 00:47:25.867
And where this is different is that

00:47:25.887 --> 00:47:27.307
there's no conditions.

00:47:27.347 --> 00:47:29.929
It's basically any system.

00:47:32.492 --> 00:47:34.914
And there's no things like that.

00:47:34.954 --> 00:47:36.414
So someone here sees LF.

00:47:36.474 --> 00:47:38.096
I think the issue for workstations would

00:47:38.115 --> 00:47:39.557
be a phishing attack that could get a

00:47:39.597 --> 00:47:43.019
local user to execute the exploit on their

00:47:43.099 --> 00:47:46.302
own or a chaining of an RCE with

00:47:46.342 --> 00:47:49.385
copy fail to achieve root access.

00:47:50.661 --> 00:47:54.583
I think that's definitely a possibility.

00:47:54.603 --> 00:47:54.764
Yeah.

00:47:54.784 --> 00:47:55.505
It's like,

00:47:55.585 --> 00:47:57.905
it is possible to be for that to

00:47:57.945 --> 00:47:58.286
happen.

00:47:59.067 --> 00:48:02.068
I'll also say like this,

00:48:02.427 --> 00:48:03.588
I was looking at this yesterday,

00:48:03.608 --> 00:48:07.650
so I'm not sure if it's super up

00:48:07.670 --> 00:48:08.050
to date,

00:48:08.110 --> 00:48:10.532
but I saw Debian stable still hadn't fixed

00:48:10.572 --> 00:48:11.112
this issue.

00:48:12.753 --> 00:48:14.675
And it seemed like people were

00:48:16.048 --> 00:48:16.528
I don't know,

00:48:16.628 --> 00:48:18.530
not taking a very proactive approach to

00:48:18.570 --> 00:48:19.190
fixing this.

00:48:20.170 --> 00:48:22.750
And I think maybe it's because there's

00:48:24.110 --> 00:48:25.251
not, you know,

00:48:25.291 --> 00:48:30.032
there's not that much of a risk to

00:48:30.572 --> 00:48:31.411
workstations.

00:48:31.472 --> 00:48:34.353
Maybe there's a limited attack surface

00:48:34.393 --> 00:48:36.413
because this does only sort of affect

00:48:36.452 --> 00:48:38.574
shared hosting instances.

00:48:39.173 --> 00:48:41.293
I'm not sure, but yeah.

00:48:41.313 --> 00:48:42.675
Do you have anything you wanted to add

00:48:42.715 --> 00:48:44.255
on this one, Nate?

00:48:46.318 --> 00:48:47.619
I just had a couple of quick thoughts.

00:48:47.739 --> 00:48:48.518
I mean, for one,

00:48:48.699 --> 00:48:49.820
I wanted to drive home.

00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:51.300
I know you already said this,

00:48:51.340 --> 00:48:52.539
but I really want to drive home that

00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:54.920
this requires local access,

00:48:55.001 --> 00:48:56.420
which C's is absolutely right.

00:48:56.460 --> 00:48:56.621
I mean,

00:48:56.641 --> 00:48:59.661
that was my first question because this is

00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:01.541
also too technical for me to fully

00:49:01.581 --> 00:49:02.061
understand.

00:49:02.501 --> 00:49:03.961
So I was asking about this the other

00:49:03.981 --> 00:49:04.722
day when it came up.

00:49:05.862 --> 00:49:06.742
In theory, yes,

00:49:06.802 --> 00:49:09.862
somebody could get a hold of your...

00:49:10.483 --> 00:49:10.902
For example,

00:49:10.983 --> 00:49:14.523
I use SSH to manage my servers and...

00:49:15.483 --> 00:49:16.184
theoretically,

00:49:16.244 --> 00:49:17.668
if they somehow got a hold of my

00:49:17.708 --> 00:49:18.309
private key,

00:49:18.349 --> 00:49:19.490
then they could log in as me and

00:49:19.530 --> 00:49:20.492
now they're in there.

00:49:20.952 --> 00:49:23.036
But it's not one of those things that,

00:49:23.356 --> 00:49:23.556
you know,

00:49:23.617 --> 00:49:25.079
typically when we talk about a remote

00:49:25.179 --> 00:49:28.945
access thing, it means that you wouldn't,

00:49:31.349 --> 00:49:33.329
you wouldn't need to take any additional

00:49:33.349 --> 00:49:34.010
steps like that.

00:49:34.030 --> 00:49:35.190
You wouldn't need to fish somebody.

00:49:35.230 --> 00:49:36.331
You wouldn't need to like plant.

00:49:36.351 --> 00:49:39.210
I personally,

00:49:39.311 --> 00:49:40.512
I used to laugh at these as surveillance

00:49:40.532 --> 00:49:41.931
report all the time, not laugh per se,

00:49:42.311 --> 00:49:43.552
but like there would always be these big,

00:49:43.572 --> 00:49:45.012
like, Oh man, there's this really crazy,

00:49:45.032 --> 00:49:47.353
like your phone can turn into a microphone

00:49:47.373 --> 00:49:48.534
while it's sitting on your desk.

00:49:48.833 --> 00:49:50.255
So the first thing the researchers did was

00:49:50.315 --> 00:49:51.434
plant malware on the phone.

00:49:51.494 --> 00:49:51.994
And I'm like, well,

00:49:52.054 --> 00:49:54.016
no shit at that point, dude, come on.

00:49:54.695 --> 00:49:56.556
And, and we saw that every single time.

00:49:56.637 --> 00:49:56.996
So yeah,

00:49:57.836 --> 00:49:59.217
That's not to like downplay these and say

00:49:59.257 --> 00:49:59.797
they don't matter,

00:49:59.818 --> 00:50:00.538
but just to kind of put it in

00:50:00.557 --> 00:50:02.978
perspective of like, this is important.

00:50:02.998 --> 00:50:03.900
This is something that they should

00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:05.521
definitely fix if for no other reason than

00:50:05.541 --> 00:50:07.181
the fact that it can break out of

00:50:07.221 --> 00:50:07.742
containers.

00:50:07.762 --> 00:50:08.641
And I don't know about you guys,

00:50:08.661 --> 00:50:10.963
but I think a lot of people who

00:50:11.023 --> 00:50:13.523
host self-host, I think the vast majority,

00:50:13.543 --> 00:50:14.704
if they're using a VPS,

00:50:14.724 --> 00:50:17.045
they're using shared hosting.

00:50:17.106 --> 00:50:18.467
Very few people I think are willing to

00:50:18.507 --> 00:50:20.728
pay for a dedicated server for any number

00:50:20.748 --> 00:50:21.208
of reasons.

00:50:21.608 --> 00:50:22.608
So it is important to patch,

00:50:22.648 --> 00:50:23.768
but it's definitely not like,

00:50:24.429 --> 00:50:25.389
like something that's just going to,

00:50:26.501 --> 00:50:26.722
you know,

00:50:26.842 --> 00:50:28.244
randomly start getting exploited.

00:50:28.264 --> 00:50:29.545
There's some additional steps to take

00:50:29.565 --> 00:50:29.826
there.

00:50:31.527 --> 00:50:32.829
And then for the AI one,

00:50:32.869 --> 00:50:34.733
like not to defend AI too much,

00:50:34.753 --> 00:50:35.653
but you were talking about like,

00:50:36.213 --> 00:50:37.315
I don't know why they wouldn't just pay

00:50:37.416 --> 00:50:39.117
a normal auditor at that point.

00:50:40.099 --> 00:50:42.181
I definitely think human auditors need to

00:50:42.202 --> 00:50:42.862
be in the loop.

00:50:43.483 --> 00:50:44.083
I think it was...

00:50:45.528 --> 00:50:46.510
Oh, I don't wanna slander anybody.

00:50:47.250 --> 00:50:48.331
Was it Entei recently?

00:50:49.190 --> 00:50:49.690
Somebody,

00:50:49.791 --> 00:50:51.512
one of the smaller projects we like that

00:50:52.353 --> 00:50:54.074
kind of had an impromptu audit.

00:50:54.094 --> 00:50:55.295
There was like an AI company that

00:50:55.315 --> 00:50:56.394
approached them and they're like, hey,

00:50:56.414 --> 00:50:57.735
we did this audit and we found these

00:50:57.755 --> 00:50:58.155
things.

00:50:58.836 --> 00:50:59.157
And like,

00:50:59.257 --> 00:51:00.677
I hesitate to call it an audit because

00:51:00.697 --> 00:51:02.438
it didn't sound like it was super formal

00:51:02.518 --> 00:51:03.619
and it didn't sound like it was really

00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:04.320
sophisticated.

00:51:05.019 --> 00:51:05.760
But at the same time,

00:51:05.900 --> 00:51:07.382
I do have respect for the idea that

00:51:07.523 --> 00:51:08.422
it is, in a way,

00:51:08.443 --> 00:51:09.364
it's another set of eyes.

00:51:10.585 --> 00:51:12.688
It's another perspective.

00:51:12.947 --> 00:51:14.329
It might notice things that you miss,

00:51:14.429 --> 00:51:15.811
either just through, like, you're tired,

00:51:15.831 --> 00:51:17.231
your eyes are glazing over from looking at

00:51:17.271 --> 00:51:18.773
five million lines of code all day.

00:51:19.793 --> 00:51:21.376
It can move way, way faster.

00:51:21.916 --> 00:51:23.617
So I'm not trying to say it's perfect.

00:51:23.737 --> 00:51:25.239
I know it's probably going to miss things

00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:25.900
here and there.

00:51:26.621 --> 00:51:26.800
But...

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:28.519
I don't know.

00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:29.661
I guess where I'm going is I could

00:51:29.681 --> 00:51:30.981
see value on it.

00:51:31.302 --> 00:51:31.501
Again,

00:51:31.561 --> 00:51:33.242
I would hope people are not relying solely

00:51:33.382 --> 00:51:37.045
on AI for their audits, but yeah,

00:51:37.164 --> 00:51:37.465
I don't know.

00:51:37.585 --> 00:51:37.865
But yeah,

00:51:37.885 --> 00:51:39.367
there probably is a point where it's like

00:51:40.327 --> 00:51:41.788
we're spending twice as much on this when

00:51:41.827 --> 00:51:43.389
we could get a human audit that's just

00:51:43.429 --> 00:51:43.748
as good.

00:51:43.768 --> 00:51:44.190
I don't know.

00:51:44.389 --> 00:51:45.489
I could see arguments both ways,

00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:46.530
but that just kind of came to mind

00:51:46.851 --> 00:51:47.952
while you were talking about that.

00:51:49.001 --> 00:51:49.222
Yeah,

00:51:49.282 --> 00:51:51.722
so that is a good point to bring

00:51:51.802 --> 00:51:51.983
up.

00:51:53.543 --> 00:51:55.585
I definitely think it's kind of a little

00:51:55.625 --> 00:51:57.746
bit silly to have everything be,

00:51:58.246 --> 00:52:00.567
you can't only rely on AI, I guess.

00:52:00.606 --> 00:52:03.668
There has to be some human input,

00:52:03.748 --> 00:52:05.148
but I guess an update to this as

00:52:05.188 --> 00:52:05.449
well.

00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:10.371
Debian has released fixes on Bookworm and

00:52:10.411 --> 00:52:10.911
Trixie.

00:52:11.391 --> 00:52:13.773
Forky and Sid both had it fixed earlier,

00:52:13.932 --> 00:52:14.972
so that's fine.

00:52:15.773 --> 00:52:16.054
But yeah,

00:52:16.114 --> 00:52:18.554
they both released fixes for Bookworm

00:52:18.842 --> 00:52:19.762
stable releases.

00:52:19.864 --> 00:52:21.103
If you're on Bullseye,

00:52:22.264 --> 00:52:23.344
it's still vulnerable,

00:52:23.824 --> 00:52:25.905
but you should probably update at this

00:52:25.945 --> 00:52:26.467
point.

00:52:26.527 --> 00:52:30.409
Bullseye is going to be phased out soon,

00:52:30.528 --> 00:52:34.690
so probably look at updating to Bookworm

00:52:34.710 --> 00:52:36.231
or Trixie at some point.

00:52:36.791 --> 00:52:38.813
But yeah,

00:52:38.873 --> 00:52:41.134
I don't think this is going to affect

00:52:41.193 --> 00:52:42.634
most desktop users.

00:52:42.733 --> 00:52:44.195
I think this is like you said,

00:52:44.235 --> 00:52:47.536
it's concerning because people have VPSs

00:52:47.797 --> 00:52:47.876
on

00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:53.005
these like shared hosting platforms and I

00:52:53.025 --> 00:52:56.369
think that's a bit scary that there's a

00:52:56.409 --> 00:52:58.471
possibility of being able to break out of

00:52:58.952 --> 00:53:01.414
a container or I'm not sure if I

00:53:01.434 --> 00:53:03.396
guess it depends on what software the

00:53:03.677 --> 00:53:07.021
hosting provider uses but yeah basically

00:53:07.081 --> 00:53:08.963
anything that uses a shared kernel which

00:53:10.085 --> 00:53:11.547
I'm not sure if it actually would affect

00:53:11.626 --> 00:53:12.367
VPSs.

00:53:12.427 --> 00:53:15.349
I think it would more affect shared

00:53:15.409 --> 00:53:15.809
hosting,

00:53:15.829 --> 00:53:18.030
like WordPress hosting sort of thing.

00:53:18.050 --> 00:53:20.271
Cpanel and stuff like that.

00:53:20.811 --> 00:53:22.172
Yeah, stuff like that,

00:53:22.914 --> 00:53:24.213
where it shares a single kernel.

00:53:24.233 --> 00:53:25.934
Because I think, yeah, the kernel,

00:53:26.615 --> 00:53:28.016
it maybe would allow you to get root

00:53:28.097 --> 00:53:29.416
access of the VPS,

00:53:29.458 --> 00:53:31.139
but it wouldn't allow you to break outside

00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:31.579
of that.

00:53:31.778 --> 00:53:32.039
Yeah.

00:53:35.036 --> 00:53:36.797
Yeah, definitely an interesting story.

00:53:37.057 --> 00:53:40.699
This one was brought to our attention by

00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:41.119
Freya,

00:53:41.159 --> 00:53:43.621
who's also in the process of doing a

00:53:43.681 --> 00:53:44.422
write-up on this.

00:53:44.481 --> 00:53:45.922
So if you probably want to get some

00:53:45.963 --> 00:53:47.443
more insight,

00:53:47.463 --> 00:53:51.085
definitely check out privacyguides.org

00:53:51.126 --> 00:53:53.586
slash news if you want to keep up

00:53:53.606 --> 00:53:55.927
to date on some of the latest privacy

00:53:55.967 --> 00:53:59.889
and security news and kind of get Freya's

00:53:59.909 --> 00:54:00.530
thoughts on this.

00:54:00.670 --> 00:54:02.532
And they had a little bit more

00:54:03.922 --> 00:54:05.884
time to look into this so they've probably

00:54:05.923 --> 00:54:09.166
got some more condensed thoughts but i

00:54:09.186 --> 00:54:10.447
haven't really seen too many people

00:54:10.487 --> 00:54:12.469
talking about this so i was kind of

00:54:12.489 --> 00:54:16.170
surprised that uh that no one was talking

00:54:16.190 --> 00:54:17.952
about it um so i thought it would

00:54:17.972 --> 00:54:20.414
be good to at least mention um i'm

00:54:20.494 --> 00:54:22.076
also kind of in the boat where like

00:54:22.135 --> 00:54:23.577
this kind of goes over my head a

00:54:23.597 --> 00:54:24.597
little bit um

00:54:26.023 --> 00:54:29.025
I'm just reading what the press release

00:54:29.045 --> 00:54:29.485
says.

00:54:30.126 --> 00:54:33.909
So hopefully I did at least a decent

00:54:33.949 --> 00:54:34.969
job of explaining it.

00:54:35.590 --> 00:54:37.070
Definitely check out the article if you

00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:37.831
want to learn more.

00:54:38.532 --> 00:54:41.074
But yeah.

00:54:41.094 --> 00:54:42.315
I feel like I've seen it pop up

00:54:42.355 --> 00:54:43.655
in my newsfeed a little bit over the

00:54:43.675 --> 00:54:44.376
last couple of days,

00:54:44.416 --> 00:54:45.657
but I think it's still pretty new.

00:54:45.777 --> 00:54:46.157
So, I mean,

00:54:46.177 --> 00:54:47.277
it's already got a Wikipedia page

00:54:47.297 --> 00:54:49.760
apparently, so that's cool.

00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:51.460
That's our Wikipedia page.

00:54:52.472 --> 00:54:52.753
What's that?

00:54:53.054 --> 00:54:54.257
Oh, yeah, I know, right?

00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:55.221
Man,

00:54:55.521 --> 00:54:56.726
we have this conversation all the time.

00:54:56.766 --> 00:54:58.150
This is crazy that we don't have one,

00:54:58.311 --> 00:54:58.510
but...

00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:01.882
Anyways, I actually did want to,

00:55:01.981 --> 00:55:03.882
one thing that you said that somebody else

00:55:03.902 --> 00:55:04.043
said,

00:55:04.063 --> 00:55:05.023
and I meant to bring this up in

00:55:05.362 --> 00:55:06.123
the first story,

00:55:06.903 --> 00:55:09.704
but Bam here said that it's hard to

00:55:09.724 --> 00:55:11.664
patch an old kernel such as Motorola on

00:55:11.764 --> 00:55:13.385
Android X that stopped releasing security

00:55:13.425 --> 00:55:13.786
patches.

00:55:14.646 --> 00:55:15.246
Number one,

00:55:16.067 --> 00:55:17.827
I think Graphene OS posted a big thing

00:55:17.847 --> 00:55:19.507
on Twitter or Mastodon about how this

00:55:20.188 --> 00:55:22.889
doesn't really affect Androids in the same

00:55:22.909 --> 00:55:24.929
way, because I mentioned this before,

00:55:24.949 --> 00:55:26.489
and I actually got this from Kerry Parker,

00:55:26.891 --> 00:55:27.990
one of his guests that he interviewed,

00:55:28.490 --> 00:55:30.552
is from a security perspective,

00:55:32.052 --> 00:55:33.954
when we made mobile phones,

00:55:34.153 --> 00:55:34.954
we as a society,

00:55:35.375 --> 00:55:36.635
we kind of took all the lessons we

00:55:36.675 --> 00:55:39.157
learned from desktop computers and fixed a

00:55:39.197 --> 00:55:40.217
significant number of them.

00:55:40.318 --> 00:55:41.278
So things about like,

00:55:42.820 --> 00:55:44.860
I believe phones use like immutable

00:55:44.900 --> 00:55:45.280
updates,

00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:46.802
things about like app permissions,

00:55:46.862 --> 00:55:49.563
things that phones do really well from a

00:55:49.603 --> 00:55:50.543
security perspective,

00:55:50.583 --> 00:55:52.485
but desktops have still not caught up.

00:55:53.505 --> 00:55:54.186
So, I mean,

00:55:54.206 --> 00:55:55.806
it probably wouldn't affect Androids in

00:55:55.827 --> 00:55:56.387
the same way,

00:55:56.507 --> 00:55:56.827
but

00:55:57.847 --> 00:55:59.471
Going back to what she said and also

00:55:59.490 --> 00:56:00.695
this and also the first story,

00:56:01.076 --> 00:56:03.862
the first story mentioned that people were

00:56:03.902 --> 00:56:04.505
saying like, oh,

00:56:04.545 --> 00:56:05.788
I'm just not going to update Ubuntu

00:56:05.807 --> 00:56:06.831
because of this AI stuff.

00:56:08.858 --> 00:56:10.478
I don't mean to sound arrogant,

00:56:10.518 --> 00:56:12.239
but y'all are absolutely insane with those

00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:12.760
kind of takes.

00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:14.981
I still see people commenting on old

00:56:15.021 --> 00:56:17.523
YouTube videos where we talk about like AI

00:56:17.563 --> 00:56:18.925
coming into Android and they're like,

00:56:18.945 --> 00:56:20.306
well, I'm just gonna stay on Android nine.

00:56:20.505 --> 00:56:21.266
And it's like, cool.

00:56:21.427 --> 00:56:22.746
I hope you're not gonna touch the internet

00:56:22.766 --> 00:56:25.168
with that thing because all of these

00:56:25.268 --> 00:56:26.150
updates, yes,

00:56:26.190 --> 00:56:28.130
they do often come with crap that we

00:56:28.170 --> 00:56:29.351
don't want like AI,

00:56:29.871 --> 00:56:31.632
but they also come with really important

00:56:31.672 --> 00:56:32.634
security fixes.

00:56:32.793 --> 00:56:34.856
And I don't know, just my personal take,

00:56:35.016 --> 00:56:36.076
I think you're really gambling there,

00:56:36.135 --> 00:56:37.436
especially the longer it goes on.

00:56:37.476 --> 00:56:37.978
If you're like,

00:56:38.958 --> 00:56:40.739
six months out of date like and you

00:56:40.780 --> 00:56:42.181
don't really use your phone that often or

00:56:42.242 --> 00:56:44.023
use it for anything sensitive okay fine

00:56:44.043 --> 00:56:46.525
whatever but the longer it goes on the

00:56:46.565 --> 00:56:48.166
more and more severe vulnerabilities

00:56:48.186 --> 00:56:50.429
they're gonna find uh the easier they're

00:56:50.449 --> 00:56:53.411
gonna become to exploit it's just to me

00:56:53.431 --> 00:56:56.916
that's extremely uh i wouldn't do that if

00:56:56.976 --> 00:57:00.079
i were you personally but um not my

00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.420
phone so i guess y'all do whatever you

00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:01.860
want but

00:57:02.483 --> 00:57:02.963
I don't know.

00:57:02.983 --> 00:57:03.844
I just, I wanted to address that.

00:57:03.884 --> 00:57:05.403
I think people who choose not to update

00:57:05.463 --> 00:57:06.505
in protest of features,

00:57:06.585 --> 00:57:08.005
I think you're personally,

00:57:08.045 --> 00:57:09.686
I think you're not getting a good trade

00:57:09.726 --> 00:57:10.326
off on that one.

00:57:10.365 --> 00:57:11.726
I think you should look into just a

00:57:11.766 --> 00:57:13.786
completely different solution.

00:57:13.847 --> 00:57:14.847
Like on Android, for example,

00:57:14.907 --> 00:57:16.648
go to graphene where there are no AI

00:57:16.668 --> 00:57:17.068
features.

00:57:17.289 --> 00:57:18.748
So, yeah.

00:57:18.768 --> 00:57:20.969
I think, you know, uh,

00:57:20.989 --> 00:57:24.210
people have definitely very specific, uh,

00:57:27.608 --> 00:57:29.648
decisions for choosing things.

00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:32.510
And I don't know,

00:57:32.590 --> 00:57:34.891
I think a lot of times a remote

00:57:35.012 --> 00:57:38.172
execution vulnerability is probably not

00:57:38.253 --> 00:57:41.014
too likely if you're being careful.

00:57:41.233 --> 00:57:42.695
But I mean, obviously, I don't know.

00:57:43.896 --> 00:57:44.835
You have to kind of know what you're

00:57:44.856 --> 00:57:45.155
doing.

00:57:45.516 --> 00:57:45.876
Otherwise,

00:57:45.936 --> 00:57:48.717
I could say it's definitely probably not

00:57:48.757 --> 00:57:50.378
the greatest, I mean, idea.

00:57:51.282 --> 00:57:51.804
Yeah, I mean,

00:57:51.903 --> 00:57:53.885
and I know there's always situations,

00:57:53.925 --> 00:57:54.085
right?

00:57:54.106 --> 00:57:55.226
Like there's definitely a lot of people

00:57:55.266 --> 00:57:56.728
who live in countries where like they

00:57:56.748 --> 00:57:58.409
don't sell pixels and an iPhone is too

00:57:58.449 --> 00:57:59.771
expensive and stuff like that.

00:57:59.871 --> 00:58:01.512
But I just, it's,

00:58:01.813 --> 00:58:03.074
I'm more addressing it to the people who

00:58:03.114 --> 00:58:04.596
are doing it strictly out of protest.

00:58:04.675 --> 00:58:06.318
Like, I just don't want these AI features.

00:58:06.798 --> 00:58:06.898
Well,

00:58:06.918 --> 00:58:08.139
then you should probably move to another

00:58:08.199 --> 00:58:08.940
operating system.

00:58:09.061 --> 00:58:10.782
Like if you have the resources to,

00:58:11.963 --> 00:58:12.224
I don't know.

00:58:12.244 --> 00:58:13.505
That's just weird to me that it's like,

00:58:13.644 --> 00:58:15.045
I could update to something else,

00:58:15.447 --> 00:58:16.186
but I'm not going to,

00:58:16.266 --> 00:58:17.548
I'm just going to stay on this release.

00:58:17.588 --> 00:58:18.389
And it's like, okay,

00:58:18.429 --> 00:58:19.570
but the longer it goes on,

00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:21.771
the more vulnerabilities and in time,

00:58:21.791 --> 00:58:22.773
like things are going to stop being

00:58:22.793 --> 00:58:24.355
supported, you know,

00:58:24.434 --> 00:58:27.036
eventually a lot of services you use or

00:58:27.157 --> 00:58:28.998
like even who wasn't recently,

00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:30.519
I think Firefox recently was like,

00:58:30.539 --> 00:58:31.780
we're going to stop supporting this old

00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:34.744
version of windows that I didn't know

00:58:34.764 --> 00:58:36.184
anybody still used, but yeah.

00:58:36.264 --> 00:58:36.485
So yeah.

00:58:37.195 --> 00:58:38.237
I don't know,

00:58:38.257 --> 00:58:39.577
just feels like the longer you go on,

00:58:39.597 --> 00:58:40.657
the more you're opening yourself up to

00:58:40.697 --> 00:58:41.677
risk, but that's my opinion.

00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:46.360
Yeah, I definitely think it does depend.

00:58:46.701 --> 00:58:49.862
Uh, I was using, I guess I'm gonna,

00:58:51.583 --> 00:58:52.543
well, I'm not using it anymore,

00:58:52.603 --> 00:58:54.463
but I was stuck on using an older

00:58:54.503 --> 00:58:56.244
phone for like quite a lot of years

00:58:56.385 --> 00:58:59.327
and it only back on Google pixels only

00:58:59.367 --> 00:58:59.626
had.

00:59:01.068 --> 00:59:02.670
like two years of updates.

00:59:02.891 --> 00:59:04.052
Like that was so abysmal.

00:59:04.112 --> 00:59:06.135
It was so ridiculously expensive as well.

00:59:06.175 --> 00:59:08.599
Like it was like an a thousand dollar,

00:59:08.940 --> 00:59:11.923
I guess like six hundred USD phone.

00:59:13.646 --> 00:59:14.887
And, you know,

00:59:14.907 --> 00:59:16.431
it only had two years of updates and

00:59:16.451 --> 00:59:16.911
it was like,

00:59:17.827 --> 00:59:19.047
I ended up using that phone for like

00:59:19.467 --> 00:59:20.047
six years.

00:59:20.349 --> 00:59:20.969
So, you know,

00:59:21.009 --> 00:59:22.769
like four years of not getting updates.

00:59:23.771 --> 00:59:25.331
Probably not the greatest idea,

00:59:25.391 --> 00:59:26.733
but still like, you know,

00:59:26.992 --> 00:59:27.873
I never got hacked.

00:59:27.934 --> 00:59:29.594
So I don't know.

00:59:29.635 --> 00:59:34.157
Maybe I was lucky.

00:59:34.257 --> 00:59:34.657
Yeah.

00:59:35.778 --> 00:59:36.079
I don't know.

00:59:36.099 --> 00:59:36.960
I think we'll leave that one there.

00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:38.621
I think we could argue this one all

00:59:38.641 --> 00:59:38.880
night.

00:59:40.623 --> 00:59:42.483
okay um so i did see there was

00:59:42.503 --> 00:59:45.344
a question here from i'm wondering and is

00:59:45.364 --> 00:59:46.905
there any sign that other companies will

00:59:46.985 --> 00:59:49.907
adopt the privacy screen feature samsung

00:59:49.947 --> 00:59:52.289
has introduced and what do you think of

00:59:52.329 --> 00:59:56.371
it i mean i think it's interesting i

00:59:56.411 --> 00:59:58.672
think the the issue that i've had with

00:59:58.713 --> 01:00:00.594
like the privacy screen protectors is

01:00:00.614 --> 01:00:02.195
they're like they kind of

01:00:02.791 --> 01:00:06.355
make your screen look awful and they are,

01:00:07.496 --> 01:00:08.036
I guess,

01:00:08.376 --> 01:00:11.500
a strain on your battery because it's

01:00:11.559 --> 01:00:13.181
basically covering the screen with like a

01:00:13.242 --> 01:00:14.362
film, a dark film.

01:00:15.184 --> 01:00:17.606
So, you know, I think it's,

01:00:21.498 --> 01:00:22.338
it's interesting.

01:00:22.518 --> 01:00:24.159
I think it's a better alternative to a

01:00:24.219 --> 01:00:25.940
privacy screen protector, but I think,

01:00:25.981 --> 01:00:26.280
you know,

01:00:26.300 --> 01:00:27.641
there are trade-offs like there was

01:00:27.701 --> 01:00:29.061
clearly trade-offs with the,

01:00:29.862 --> 01:00:31.603
with the Samsung, uh,

01:00:31.623 --> 01:00:35.143
with the Samsung galaxy S twenty-six, uh,

01:00:35.224 --> 01:00:36.264
ultra, like there was,

01:00:36.304 --> 01:00:37.885
there was trade-offs for having that on

01:00:37.925 --> 01:00:38.425
the screen.

01:00:38.605 --> 01:00:41.567
And I'm not sure if the trade-offs are

01:00:41.646 --> 01:00:42.407
worth the

01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:44.981
benefit,

01:00:45.021 --> 01:00:46.744
especially because not everyone needs that

01:00:46.764 --> 01:00:47.545
feature, right?

01:00:47.585 --> 01:00:49.809
So like people were buying it because it

01:00:49.829 --> 01:00:50.590
was a novelty,

01:00:51.092 --> 01:00:52.655
but once it stops being a novelty,

01:00:53.155 --> 01:00:54.538
it's just for a lot of people,

01:00:54.577 --> 01:00:55.579
it's just a downgrade.

01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:57.362
Like a lot of people don't care about

01:00:58.659 --> 01:01:01.500
this feature like maybe you don't go on

01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:03.340
public transport like if you don't take

01:01:03.380 --> 01:01:06.461
public transport or you don't you know

01:01:06.561 --> 01:01:08.862
open your phone in public then this

01:01:08.902 --> 01:01:11.083
feature is not really that useful for you

01:01:11.304 --> 01:01:13.804
so I don't know I think it's an

01:01:13.885 --> 01:01:15.806
interesting I think it is sort of a

01:01:15.885 --> 01:01:17.766
gimmick like it is like oh whoa look

01:01:17.806 --> 01:01:19.387
at this cool new feature that we added

01:01:19.407 --> 01:01:21.248
like it's really cool like everyone was

01:01:21.288 --> 01:01:23.168
kind of obsessed with it for a while

01:01:23.228 --> 01:01:24.949
because it's we've never seen anything

01:01:24.989 --> 01:01:26.590
like it right and

01:01:26.730 --> 01:01:30.132
but I think it's not very likely.

01:01:30.331 --> 01:01:32.452
It's like how the Google Pixel added like

01:01:32.472 --> 01:01:33.512
a temperature sensor.

01:01:33.733 --> 01:01:37.914
It's like cool, but like no one's like,

01:01:38.034 --> 01:01:39.615
I've never used that feature ever.

01:01:39.856 --> 01:01:41.036
Like I don't need that.

01:01:41.077 --> 01:01:42.597
Like it's a gimmick.

01:01:42.637 --> 01:01:45.239
Like it's a thing that's like there as

01:01:45.278 --> 01:01:47.239
like a selling point for the phone that's

01:01:49.059 --> 01:01:49.199
oh,

01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:50.599
look at this extra thing you can do

01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:51.500
that you might want.

01:01:51.820 --> 01:01:53.201
But I think for a lot of people,

01:01:53.221 --> 01:01:54.440
they're like, oh,

01:01:54.481 --> 01:01:56.282
the screen brightness is not as good

01:01:56.322 --> 01:01:58.422
because it has this feature.

01:01:58.443 --> 01:02:00.563
It's like, it's kind of just not,

01:02:01.344 --> 01:02:02.505
people just want the best,

01:02:02.625 --> 01:02:03.925
the biggest and the best.

01:02:04.226 --> 01:02:05.485
And, you know, really,

01:02:05.565 --> 01:02:07.407
you kind of have some trade-offs to that

01:02:07.447 --> 01:02:11.048
feature, I think.

01:02:11.568 --> 01:02:12.088
Yeah, I mean,

01:02:12.108 --> 01:02:13.130
I don't know if I'm the best person

01:02:13.150 --> 01:02:14.130
to weigh in on this because I'm a

01:02:14.150 --> 01:02:15.431
notorious Samsung hater,

01:02:15.530 --> 01:02:17.512
which for the record, no, for the record,

01:02:18.405 --> 01:02:19.465
I finally addressed this.

01:02:19.626 --> 01:02:21.306
I've had several comments over the last

01:02:21.347 --> 01:02:23.047
year or so where people ask like, Nate,

01:02:23.088 --> 01:02:24.429
why do you hate Samsung so much?

01:02:25.028 --> 01:02:26.449
And to be fair,

01:02:26.510 --> 01:02:27.490
I've said it over the years,

01:02:27.530 --> 01:02:28.632
but I don't expect people to go back

01:02:28.652 --> 01:02:30.132
and watch like every single podcast I've

01:02:30.152 --> 01:02:30.552
ever been on.

01:02:31.614 --> 01:02:33.235
So I finally wrote a blog post over

01:02:33.255 --> 01:02:33.974
on my personal,

01:02:34.474 --> 01:02:36.637
over at the new oil where I outline,

01:02:37.036 --> 01:02:38.097
it'll be public on Sunday.

01:02:38.157 --> 01:02:39.998
Right now it's like early access where I

01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:42.481
outline all the reasons I I'm so angry

01:02:42.521 --> 01:02:43.161
at Samsung.

01:02:43.920 --> 01:02:44.402
And for the record,

01:02:44.422 --> 01:02:45.623
this is not an official endorsement from

01:02:45.663 --> 01:02:46.123
privacy guys.

01:02:46.143 --> 01:02:47.264
It's my personal blog post.

01:02:48.384 --> 01:02:50.844
But I did mention the privacy screen.

01:02:51.005 --> 01:02:52.485
And basically, I'm with you.

01:02:52.626 --> 01:02:54.246
I think it's privacy theater because

01:02:54.806 --> 01:02:58.088
Samsung has had so many other things where

01:02:58.128 --> 01:03:01.009
they could provide actual meaningful

01:03:01.048 --> 01:03:02.688
privacy and security to their users.

01:03:03.228 --> 01:03:03.708
And instead,

01:03:03.829 --> 01:03:05.730
I don't want to go off on too

01:03:05.769 --> 01:03:06.309
much of a rant here,

01:03:06.329 --> 01:03:07.951
but Samsung's whole thing

01:03:08.976 --> 01:03:10.617
is flash.

01:03:11.157 --> 01:03:13.119
Like there is no substance to Samsung

01:03:13.139 --> 01:03:14.041
phones in my opinion.

01:03:14.661 --> 01:03:17.643
And their whole thing is like celebrity

01:03:17.664 --> 01:03:19.425
endorsements and flashy features.

01:03:19.465 --> 01:03:20.527
And like, don't get me wrong,

01:03:20.606 --> 01:03:22.007
I've known people that have Samsung phones

01:03:22.108 --> 01:03:23.509
and they love their phones.

01:03:23.548 --> 01:03:24.309
It's almost like a cult.

01:03:24.389 --> 01:03:25.150
It's like browsers.

01:03:25.210 --> 01:03:26.672
People love their Samsung phones.

01:03:27.293 --> 01:03:28.114
And don't get me wrong,

01:03:28.134 --> 01:03:29.195
like some of the features, they're like,

01:03:29.215 --> 01:03:30.014
oh, I can do this thing.

01:03:30.034 --> 01:03:30.976
And I'm like, okay,

01:03:31.016 --> 01:03:31.797
that sounds pretty cool.

01:03:31.896 --> 01:03:32.277
I get it.

01:03:32.938 --> 01:03:34.498
But once you dig under it and you

01:03:34.539 --> 01:03:36.139
look at what's the privacy policy,

01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:37.101
look at some of the history of

01:03:37.121 --> 01:03:38.101
vulnerabilities they've had,

01:03:38.121 --> 01:03:39.262
look at how they've responded to some of

01:03:39.282 --> 01:03:39.481
those.

01:03:39.862 --> 01:03:40.503
I don't remember all of it.

01:03:40.543 --> 01:03:41.402
That's why I wrote it all down.

01:03:41.784 --> 01:03:43.264
But when you look at all that stuff,

01:03:43.304 --> 01:03:43.925
it's like, wow.

01:03:44.244 --> 01:03:45.186
And then on top of it,

01:03:45.226 --> 01:03:46.407
at the very end, I talk about this.

01:03:46.427 --> 01:03:46.706
I'm like,

01:03:47.027 --> 01:03:48.748
what really takes the cake is they are

01:03:49.327 --> 01:03:52.329
the seventh most valuable brand in the

01:03:52.369 --> 01:03:52.650
world.

01:03:53.567 --> 01:03:56.168
Like there's Google and Apple are in like

01:03:56.188 --> 01:03:57.389
the top five or whatever.

01:03:57.768 --> 01:03:59.230
And then Samsung's in the top ten.

01:03:59.590 --> 01:04:01.291
And then the next phone maker is freaking

01:04:01.331 --> 01:04:03.072
Huawei all the way down to like fifty

01:04:03.112 --> 01:04:04.413
something.

01:04:04.512 --> 01:04:06.675
And so it's like you have for all

01:04:06.715 --> 01:04:08.536
intents and purposes as much money as

01:04:08.615 --> 01:04:09.315
Apple and Google.

01:04:09.655 --> 01:04:11.317
And yet you can't make a phone even

01:04:11.376 --> 01:04:13.217
remotely as secure as them because you're

01:04:13.237 --> 01:04:14.559
too busy spending your money to pay for

01:04:14.599 --> 01:04:14.719
BTS.

01:04:14.739 --> 01:04:17.420
So, yeah, I am.

01:04:19.382 --> 01:04:19.802
I hate Samsung.

01:04:19.822 --> 01:04:20.563
Yeah.

01:04:21.422 --> 01:04:22.043
So, yeah, I mean,

01:04:22.083 --> 01:04:23.003
if you want to see all the reasons

01:04:23.083 --> 01:04:23.664
I hate them again,

01:04:23.684 --> 01:04:24.704
that'll be public on Sunday.

01:04:24.784 --> 01:04:26.704
But that's what I think about it.

01:04:26.744 --> 01:04:27.945
Like, sure, it's a cool feature.

01:04:28.125 --> 01:04:29.364
And like, I don't mind it.

01:04:29.425 --> 01:04:31.005
Like, I'm not mad that it exists.

01:04:31.425 --> 01:04:33.226
But to me, it's just it's it's theater.

01:04:33.306 --> 01:04:34.246
It's like, oh, look, it's cool.

01:04:34.286 --> 01:04:35.365
Privacy feature we gave you.

01:04:35.626 --> 01:04:37.387
There's no actual privacy built into the

01:04:37.407 --> 01:04:37.626
phone.

01:04:37.646 --> 01:04:39.407
There's no actual security built into the

01:04:39.427 --> 01:04:39.766
phone.

01:04:40.186 --> 01:04:42.867
Certainly nothing on the level of of

01:04:42.947 --> 01:04:43.788
Google and Apple.

01:04:43.887 --> 01:04:45.289
And don't ask about Knox.

01:04:45.588 --> 01:04:46.829
I address that in the blog post, too.

01:04:47.449 --> 01:04:49.110
And so it's like, it's just the,

01:04:49.150 --> 01:04:50.550
the example I used was Oreos.

01:04:50.610 --> 01:04:51.811
Like Samsung is like Oreos.

01:04:51.891 --> 01:04:52.492
It's tasty.

01:04:52.532 --> 01:04:53.231
It's delicious.

01:04:53.632 --> 01:04:54.353
I love Oreos.

01:04:54.552 --> 01:04:54.813
I do.

01:04:54.853 --> 01:04:56.054
They're one of my favorite junk foods.

01:04:56.534 --> 01:04:58.255
Nobody would eat a box of Oreos and

01:04:58.275 --> 01:04:59.536
be like, I had a great dinner.

01:05:00.157 --> 01:05:00.297
I mean,

01:05:00.317 --> 01:05:01.336
you might need a box of Oreos for

01:05:01.356 --> 01:05:01.878
dinner anyways,

01:05:01.898 --> 01:05:02.757
but you're probably not going to feel

01:05:02.777 --> 01:05:02.958
great.

01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:04.818
You know what I mean?

01:05:04.858 --> 01:05:05.659
Like, it's just, it's,

01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:06.960
there's no substance there.

01:05:07.021 --> 01:05:08.420
Nobody would eat that and be like, yeah,

01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:09.362
that was a healthy meal.

01:05:09.442 --> 01:05:09.981
Like, and that,

01:05:10.021 --> 01:05:11.242
that's how I feel about Samsung.

01:05:11.282 --> 01:05:13.824
So the privacy screen feature, um,

01:05:14.952 --> 01:05:16.376
I wouldn't be against other companies

01:05:16.396 --> 01:05:17.239
adopting it because again,

01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:18.603
I don't necessarily hate the feature

01:05:18.643 --> 01:05:19.045
itself.

01:05:19.407 --> 01:05:20.751
It's just coming from Samsung

01:05:20.811 --> 01:05:21.534
specifically.

01:05:21.634 --> 01:05:22.036
It's like,

01:05:24.143 --> 01:05:26.865
You know, it's – unfortunately,

01:05:26.905 --> 01:05:29.128
this has happened before.

01:05:29.208 --> 01:05:30.929
It's like serial killers that get caught

01:05:31.009 --> 01:05:32.610
and then they complain about like, oh,

01:05:33.731 --> 01:05:36.192
movies depicting my life are disrespectful

01:05:36.211 --> 01:05:36.853
to my victims.

01:05:36.893 --> 01:05:38.054
And it's like you killed your victims.

01:05:38.153 --> 01:05:38.813
I don't care.

01:05:39.414 --> 01:05:40.936
Like that's not disrespectful that we're

01:05:40.956 --> 01:05:41.815
making fun of you.

01:05:42.195 --> 01:05:44.237
Like don't pretend you care about this

01:05:44.277 --> 01:05:44.538
stuff.

01:05:44.577 --> 01:05:46.199
So that's just the same vibe I get

01:05:46.219 --> 01:05:46.719
from Samsung.

01:05:46.739 --> 01:05:47.019
It's like, oh,

01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:48.239
look at this cool privacy feature.

01:05:48.641 --> 01:05:50.041
You don't care about user privacy.

01:05:50.242 --> 01:05:51.262
So anyway, sorry.

01:05:51.382 --> 01:05:52.402
Yeah.

01:05:54.164 --> 01:05:54.943
Yeah, and they'll be like,

01:05:55.003 --> 01:05:58.144
we're protecting your notifications from

01:05:58.204 --> 01:05:59.065
prying eyes.

01:05:59.125 --> 01:05:59.525
Meanwhile,

01:05:59.565 --> 01:06:01.326
we're sending all of your notification

01:06:01.365 --> 01:06:03.065
content to Facebook or something like

01:06:03.085 --> 01:06:03.226
that.

01:06:03.246 --> 01:06:04.387
It's like, yeah,

01:06:04.547 --> 01:06:05.746
it doesn't really make sense.

01:06:06.007 --> 01:06:06.887
But I get it.

01:06:06.907 --> 01:06:07.567
I get what you're saying.

01:06:07.967 --> 01:06:09.568
I definitely think that's a good point to

01:06:09.608 --> 01:06:10.007
bring up.

01:06:11.407 --> 01:06:11.967
I mean, I don't know.

01:06:11.987 --> 01:06:13.969
I wouldn't be opposed if Google was like,

01:06:13.989 --> 01:06:14.728
we're going to add this.

01:06:15.282 --> 01:06:17.025
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but like,

01:06:17.164 --> 01:06:17.646
yeah, same.

01:06:17.666 --> 01:06:17.865
I just,

01:06:18.547 --> 01:06:20.090
I don't think it's going to happen though.

01:06:20.309 --> 01:06:22.193
Cause like, it's kind of a gimmicky thing,

01:06:22.333 --> 01:06:23.614
but it would be cool.

01:06:23.715 --> 01:06:25.338
I mean, I would wouldn't mind it.

01:06:27.938 --> 01:06:28.498
Yeah, that's fair.

01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:29.199
And like you said,

01:06:29.219 --> 01:06:30.440
it really depends on who you are.

01:06:30.481 --> 01:06:31.663
Like if you travel a lot or in

01:06:31.682 --> 01:06:32.423
your, in a lot of,

01:06:32.463 --> 01:06:34.105
cause I know though it's, I mean,

01:06:34.125 --> 01:06:35.226
part of it I think is probably to

01:06:35.266 --> 01:06:36.007
protect against the whole,

01:06:36.027 --> 01:06:37.009
there was that thing a couple of years

01:06:37.028 --> 01:06:39.150
ago that's probably still going on where

01:06:39.831 --> 01:06:41.733
we saw a real rise in like the

01:06:42.233 --> 01:06:43.695
people snatching your phone at like a bar

01:06:43.715 --> 01:06:44.135
or something.

01:06:44.717 --> 01:06:45.777
And it's like, okay, cool.

01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:48.519
Apple and Google also address that with

01:06:48.539 --> 01:06:50.041
their like stolen phone protections.

01:06:50.081 --> 01:06:51.661
And it was probably a little bit more

01:06:51.701 --> 01:06:53.561
meaningful than a privacy screen.

01:06:53.740 --> 01:06:54.721
Why don't you roll that out?

01:06:55.021 --> 01:06:57.282
Especially because it's built into AOSP as

01:06:57.302 --> 01:06:57.981
far as I understand,

01:06:58.001 --> 01:06:59.001
I could be wrong about that part,

01:06:59.021 --> 01:07:00.822
but like, it's like, why,

01:07:00.922 --> 01:07:02.362
why don't you just do something like that?

01:07:03.103 --> 01:07:05.523
So I don't know.

01:07:05.762 --> 01:07:07.403
I think it might be part of like

01:07:07.463 --> 01:07:10.804
Samsung's proprietary, like one UI thing.

01:07:11.103 --> 01:07:11.664
Is it one UI?

01:07:11.864 --> 01:07:13.405
I can't remember what they call that.

01:07:13.425 --> 01:07:13.905
No, it's one UI.

01:07:15.369 --> 01:07:16.490
When you add eight point five,

01:07:16.510 --> 01:07:17.891
that is now like eight months behind

01:07:17.931 --> 01:07:18.291
schedule.

01:07:19.152 --> 01:07:19.994
Yep.

01:07:20.253 --> 01:07:21.054
Oh, OK.

01:07:21.295 --> 01:07:22.295
I'm excited for you.

01:07:22.376 --> 01:07:22.876
I'm excited.

01:07:22.936 --> 01:07:24.077
I saw you were working on that.

01:07:24.117 --> 01:07:26.260
I'm excited to see what the what the

01:07:26.440 --> 01:07:28.001
what the what you say,

01:07:28.021 --> 01:07:29.563
because I honestly don't know that much

01:07:29.583 --> 01:07:30.284
about Samsung.

01:07:30.344 --> 01:07:30.563
Yeah.

01:07:30.603 --> 01:07:31.204
So definitely.

01:07:31.224 --> 01:07:33.606
I don't know if you want to link

01:07:33.686 --> 01:07:33.927
it or.

01:07:34.987 --> 01:07:37.128
um i i can't i'll ask jonah if

01:07:37.148 --> 01:07:39.148
that's okay but um i will say for

01:07:39.188 --> 01:07:41.407
the record i i found myself corrected on

01:07:41.427 --> 01:07:42.668
a few things there were a few things

01:07:42.688 --> 01:07:44.929
like i um i was gonna bring up

01:07:44.949 --> 01:07:46.568
the one ui eight point five thing because

01:07:46.630 --> 01:07:47.809
i thought it was they were like a

01:07:47.849 --> 01:07:50.150
year behind on android sixteen turns out

01:07:50.190 --> 01:07:52.311
i'm wrong on that they have pushed out

01:07:52.331 --> 01:07:54.891
version eight already had android sixteen

01:07:54.990 --> 01:07:56.831
eight point five is just like the next

01:07:56.891 --> 01:07:58.192
like major build

01:07:58.731 --> 01:07:59.972
And they have been pushing out security

01:08:00.012 --> 01:08:00.472
updates.

01:08:00.612 --> 01:08:01.913
So there was that.

01:08:01.952 --> 01:08:02.793
And I swear to God,

01:08:02.853 --> 01:08:04.494
I remember a story where their source code

01:08:04.514 --> 01:08:06.775
got breached and people looked at it and

01:08:06.815 --> 01:08:07.976
said it was really bad.

01:08:08.635 --> 01:08:09.996
But I cannot for the life of me

01:08:10.056 --> 01:08:10.916
find that anywhere.

01:08:10.956 --> 01:08:12.117
So I dropped that part too.

01:08:12.458 --> 01:08:13.338
So I just want to make the point

01:08:13.358 --> 01:08:15.639
that it's not me just like making up

01:08:15.659 --> 01:08:17.220
things and looking for reasons to hate

01:08:17.239 --> 01:08:17.640
Samsung.

01:08:17.659 --> 01:08:18.680
Like I did my research.

01:08:18.739 --> 01:08:19.520
And if I'm like, okay,

01:08:19.961 --> 01:08:21.180
that wasn't how I remembered it.

01:08:21.661 --> 01:08:23.742
I didn't include it because clearly I was

01:08:23.782 --> 01:08:24.002
wrong.

01:08:24.162 --> 01:08:25.462
So yeah, I don't know.

01:08:27.167 --> 01:08:27.967
Hey, fair enough.

01:08:28.167 --> 01:08:30.349
No, no, no blind hatred here.

01:08:30.529 --> 01:08:32.470
Just, uh, just facts, you know?

01:08:32.489 --> 01:08:32.670
Hopefully.

01:08:32.989 --> 01:08:33.350
Yeah.

01:08:33.810 --> 01:08:37.351
Uh, so, okay.

01:08:37.832 --> 01:08:40.894
Um, what do we, let's, uh,

01:08:41.793 --> 01:08:43.314
I think we'll move into site updates now.

01:08:46.006 --> 01:08:46.608
On that note,

01:08:46.847 --> 01:08:48.389
we are going to talk about RightsCon in

01:08:48.408 --> 01:08:48.969
a little bit,

01:08:49.470 --> 01:08:51.990
because that is an unsettling and chaotic

01:08:52.011 --> 01:08:52.372
story.

01:08:53.072 --> 01:08:53.773
But first,

01:08:54.052 --> 01:08:55.453
we're going to talk about what's new over

01:08:55.474 --> 01:08:56.234
at Privacy Guides.

01:08:56.314 --> 01:08:57.774
And it's actually been a little bit of

01:08:57.835 --> 01:09:01.078
a slower week, at least in terms of...

01:09:01.877 --> 01:09:03.779
visual progress uh there's been a lot of

01:09:03.798 --> 01:09:06.300
work going on behind the scenes um we

01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:09.220
have a new video coming out that um

01:09:09.280 --> 01:09:10.742
i guess jordan's been editing so i don't

01:09:10.761 --> 01:09:12.261
know how far along you are but i

01:09:12.322 --> 01:09:14.243
i'm imagining probably pretty far along by

01:09:14.283 --> 01:09:16.463
now um hopefully we'll have that out to

01:09:16.484 --> 01:09:18.043
you guys what do you think next week

01:09:18.104 --> 01:09:19.204
or is that too ambitious

01:09:20.954 --> 01:09:21.095
Um,

01:09:21.114 --> 01:09:23.337
I'm hoping to get it finished this

01:09:23.356 --> 01:09:25.019
weekend, so we'll see.

01:09:25.158 --> 01:09:25.319
Okay.

01:09:25.338 --> 01:09:25.878
We'll see.

01:09:25.918 --> 01:09:27.359
So potentially next week,

01:09:27.420 --> 01:09:28.461
we'll see how far we get.

01:09:28.701 --> 01:09:29.202
Um,

01:09:29.381 --> 01:09:31.463
I'm already scripting the next video with

01:09:31.484 --> 01:09:32.543
a lot of help from Jonah.

01:09:32.925 --> 01:09:34.626
Um, and I think that's,

01:09:35.226 --> 01:09:36.006
that's going to be a good one.

01:09:36.087 --> 01:09:37.127
I'm excited about that one.

01:09:37.347 --> 01:09:39.250
Um, we're going to revisit,

01:09:40.251 --> 01:09:42.412
we're going to revisit some, uh,

01:09:42.452 --> 01:09:43.533
some basic topics,

01:09:43.592 --> 01:09:45.234
but also it's one of those topics that

01:09:45.253 --> 01:09:46.935
has had a recent update.

01:09:47.917 --> 01:09:48.237
Um, you'll,

01:09:48.277 --> 01:09:49.177
you'll see what I mean when it comes

01:09:49.257 --> 01:09:49.597
out, but.

01:09:50.306 --> 01:09:50.527
Yeah,

01:09:50.988 --> 01:09:52.869
that's kind of all that's been going on

01:09:52.970 --> 01:09:53.671
on the video side.

01:09:53.711 --> 01:09:55.712
Like I said, not a ton to share,

01:09:55.752 --> 01:09:57.555
but it's been good, solid progress,

01:09:57.614 --> 01:10:01.158
I think.

01:10:01.198 --> 01:10:02.640
Cool.

01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:03.020
Yeah.

01:10:03.181 --> 01:10:04.422
Is there anything going on on the site

01:10:04.462 --> 01:10:05.123
side of things, Jordan?

01:10:06.685 --> 01:10:06.944
Yes.

01:10:07.006 --> 01:10:08.886
So there's, like I said before,

01:10:09.046 --> 01:10:10.688
like Free has been working on news

01:10:11.109 --> 01:10:12.470
articles as usual.

01:10:12.829 --> 01:10:14.251
There was another,

01:10:14.791 --> 01:10:16.552
they're currently working on one here

01:10:17.012 --> 01:10:18.054
about the copy file one,

01:10:18.094 --> 01:10:19.215
the one that I mentioned before.

01:10:19.774 --> 01:10:21.676
And there was also another one that they

01:10:21.716 --> 01:10:25.338
posted where apparently Firefox has

01:10:25.418 --> 01:10:28.481
quietly added Brave's Rust-based ad

01:10:28.502 --> 01:10:28.822
blocker.

01:10:29.474 --> 01:10:30.595
So, oh,

01:10:30.916 --> 01:10:34.319
they're taking some inspiration from Brave

01:10:34.340 --> 01:10:34.600
there.

01:10:35.060 --> 01:10:35.720
That's interesting.

01:10:36.181 --> 01:10:37.604
So if that sounds interesting to you,

01:10:37.623 --> 01:10:40.386
you can check it out at privacyguides.org

01:10:40.487 --> 01:10:41.688
forward slash news.

01:10:41.828 --> 01:10:42.869
Do you have something you want to add

01:10:42.909 --> 01:10:43.610
on that one actually?

01:10:44.787 --> 01:10:45.488
I was just going to say,

01:10:45.547 --> 01:10:47.128
I'm super excited for it personally.

01:10:47.689 --> 01:10:49.570
I would love to see Firefox ship by

01:10:49.612 --> 01:10:50.872
default with an ad blocker.

01:10:50.953 --> 01:10:54.195
So we'll have to see what kind of

01:10:54.796 --> 01:10:56.078
lists they enable,

01:10:56.118 --> 01:10:57.158
the block lists and stuff,

01:10:57.198 --> 01:10:58.239
and what it's going to look like for

01:10:58.260 --> 01:10:58.859
the end user.

01:10:58.939 --> 01:11:00.481
But yeah,

01:11:00.542 --> 01:11:01.443
I'm definitely going to try to keep an

01:11:01.483 --> 01:11:02.222
eye on that myself.

01:11:02.524 --> 01:11:04.045
So definitely read that article if you're

01:11:04.064 --> 01:11:04.786
a Firefox user.

01:11:04.826 --> 01:11:05.365
I'm a big fan.

01:11:05.707 --> 01:11:06.006
I like it.

01:11:06.953 --> 01:11:07.873
Yeah, definitely.

01:11:07.953 --> 01:11:08.935
I think Brave is, like,

01:11:08.975 --> 01:11:10.734
that's the one thing that I think Brave

01:11:10.755 --> 01:11:11.876
has absolutely nailed.

01:11:11.916 --> 01:11:14.655
Like, it should be included.

01:11:14.836 --> 01:11:16.216
Like, come on, Firefox.

01:11:16.237 --> 01:11:18.797
Like, it'd be really good if, like,

01:11:18.957 --> 01:11:21.637
you know, there was two different, like,

01:11:21.677 --> 01:11:22.698
we had, like,

01:11:23.298 --> 01:11:25.078
we didn't have to rely on uBlock Origin,

01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:25.260
right?

01:11:25.300 --> 01:11:26.939
Like, if there was, you know,

01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:29.480
Firefox had its own inbuilt ad blocking

01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:30.541
system similar to, like,

01:11:30.581 --> 01:11:33.002
what Brave is doing, it'd be pretty cool.

01:11:33.841 --> 01:11:34.823
And I think, you know,

01:11:34.842 --> 01:11:36.483
it would give people better privacy by

01:11:36.523 --> 01:11:36.863
default,

01:11:36.903 --> 01:11:40.364
which is what we're here for that.

01:11:40.385 --> 01:11:43.105
Like that's exactly what we want.

01:11:43.185 --> 01:11:43.765
And it's also just,

01:11:43.865 --> 01:11:45.426
it makes it such an easier sell.

01:11:45.667 --> 01:11:46.506
Like right now,

01:11:46.667 --> 01:11:48.228
usually when I try to get people to

01:11:48.247 --> 01:11:49.188
switch browsers, I'm like, yeah,

01:11:49.207 --> 01:11:49.967
just switch to Brave.

01:11:50.628 --> 01:11:51.328
And, you know,

01:11:51.649 --> 01:11:52.948
I get why some people may not like

01:11:52.989 --> 01:11:53.149
that.

01:11:53.170 --> 01:11:54.569
And I'm with you on that.

01:11:54.989 --> 01:11:56.030
But also it's like, yeah,

01:11:56.051 --> 01:11:57.871
because I can tell them just switch to

01:11:57.890 --> 01:11:59.492
Brave and it's got the ad blocker.

01:11:59.532 --> 01:12:00.551
It's got good defaults.

01:12:00.572 --> 01:12:01.552
It's like, everything's good to go.

01:12:02.193 --> 01:12:03.594
Not that you can't make it better for

01:12:03.613 --> 01:12:03.993
the record,

01:12:04.054 --> 01:12:05.375
but it's pretty much good to go.

01:12:05.895 --> 01:12:07.115
Versus if I tell somebody, I'm like, yeah,

01:12:07.136 --> 01:12:07.895
switch to Firefox.

01:12:07.916 --> 01:12:09.296
But also you have to download uBlock

01:12:09.337 --> 01:12:09.936
Origin.

01:12:09.957 --> 01:12:12.537
And when you start adding in steps,

01:12:12.597 --> 01:12:14.559
people are just like, oh, dude, I don't.

01:12:14.618 --> 01:12:16.140
And I know it's ridiculous because it

01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:17.261
takes two seconds, right?

01:12:17.301 --> 01:12:17.961
But for some reason,

01:12:18.220 --> 01:12:19.462
it's a mental block for people that

01:12:19.481 --> 01:12:19.902
they're just like,

01:12:20.442 --> 01:12:21.783
I already have to switch browsers.

01:12:21.802 --> 01:12:23.063
Now you're telling me to do more stuff.

01:12:23.082 --> 01:12:24.783
So if it comes built in with an

01:12:24.823 --> 01:12:25.284
ad blocker,

01:12:25.385 --> 01:12:26.225
I think that's going to make it so

01:12:26.244 --> 01:12:27.546
much easier for people to just like...

01:12:28.586 --> 01:12:31.287
Yeah, switch to Firefox or Brave,

01:12:31.667 --> 01:12:32.667
whichever one you prefer.

01:12:33.306 --> 01:12:34.728
And it's just that one click.

01:12:34.948 --> 01:12:36.408
And then maybe later they can go change

01:12:36.448 --> 01:12:38.229
some settings, but yeah.

01:12:38.729 --> 01:12:38.908
Yeah,

01:12:38.969 --> 01:12:40.729
I think that also the thing that I

01:12:40.748 --> 01:12:43.409
think is important with Brave though is,

01:12:43.909 --> 01:12:45.609
or any browser that comes with an ad

01:12:45.631 --> 01:12:46.810
block included is,

01:12:47.451 --> 01:12:49.051
if you give people the choice,

01:12:49.591 --> 01:12:51.652
people are going to use the ad block.

01:12:53.512 --> 01:12:54.792
I feel like not many people would be

01:12:54.832 --> 01:12:55.052
like,

01:12:55.939 --> 01:12:57.560
Yeah, I like ads.

01:12:58.461 --> 01:13:00.981
I like seeing garbage all over every

01:13:01.061 --> 01:13:03.043
webpage and I like watching YouTube ads.

01:13:03.604 --> 01:13:05.604
It's like not many people really enjoy

01:13:05.645 --> 01:13:05.865
that.

01:13:06.485 --> 01:13:07.225
So I agree.

01:13:07.266 --> 01:13:08.646
It's definitely an easy sell.

01:13:08.787 --> 01:13:10.609
Like Brave isn't a super easy sell to

01:13:10.628 --> 01:13:10.908
people.

01:13:12.679 --> 01:13:13.599
I think I will say,

01:13:13.819 --> 01:13:15.220
I don't know if people enjoy that,

01:13:15.260 --> 01:13:16.220
but I know a lot of people will

01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:16.720
just default.

01:13:16.739 --> 01:13:16.859
Like,

01:13:16.899 --> 01:13:17.900
I met so many people that are like,

01:13:17.921 --> 01:13:19.280
oh, yeah, the ads don't really bother me.

01:13:19.701 --> 01:13:21.822
But then once they start seeing life

01:13:21.841 --> 01:13:23.061
without an ad blocker, they're just like,

01:13:23.783 --> 01:13:24.262
wow,

01:13:24.363 --> 01:13:25.823
this is a completely different internet.

01:13:25.842 --> 01:13:26.502
So, yeah.

01:13:27.484 --> 01:13:29.703
Yeah.

01:13:29.804 --> 01:13:30.845
I mean, I don't mind...

01:13:31.770 --> 01:13:32.689
ads per se,

01:13:32.729 --> 01:13:34.650
like if it's like a non-intrusive one,

01:13:34.671 --> 01:13:36.011
but we've gotten to the point where the

01:13:36.051 --> 01:13:36.711
internet is like,

01:13:37.230 --> 01:13:38.372
do you want to accept cookies?

01:13:38.492 --> 01:13:40.072
Do you want to join our newsletter?

01:13:40.112 --> 01:13:42.613
Do you want to watch this auto-playing

01:13:42.653 --> 01:13:43.733
video with audio?

01:13:43.832 --> 01:13:45.814
Like, like, no, I don't.

01:13:45.873 --> 01:13:48.234
Like if it was less intrusive,

01:13:48.314 --> 01:13:51.854
like maybe I would be somewhat more okay

01:13:51.875 --> 01:13:52.135
with it.

01:13:52.194 --> 01:13:52.414
Right.

01:13:52.454 --> 01:13:54.615
Like I'm not completely against it,

01:13:54.775 --> 01:13:55.416
but it's just,

01:13:55.615 --> 01:13:56.976
we've gotten to a point where it's just

01:13:57.016 --> 01:13:58.556
so irritating.

01:13:58.577 --> 01:13:58.657
Yeah.

01:14:00.103 --> 01:14:01.203
I know I've told this story before,

01:14:01.243 --> 01:14:02.564
but my brother was one of those people

01:14:02.604 --> 01:14:03.145
that was like, yeah,

01:14:03.166 --> 01:14:04.287
the ads don't really bother me.

01:14:04.306 --> 01:14:05.387
They got to make money somehow.

01:14:05.828 --> 01:14:08.711
And even he at one point texted me

01:14:08.791 --> 01:14:09.872
and was like, hey,

01:14:09.912 --> 01:14:11.333
what's that ad blocker you always talk

01:14:11.354 --> 01:14:11.573
about?

01:14:11.594 --> 01:14:12.975
Because like these YouTube ads are just

01:14:12.994 --> 01:14:13.676
out of control.

01:14:13.695 --> 01:14:17.298
So it's hitting a point where even the

01:14:17.338 --> 01:14:18.780
people who say they don't mind are getting

01:14:18.801 --> 01:14:19.220
sick of it.

01:14:19.320 --> 01:14:19.981
Yeah, for sure.

01:14:20.770 --> 01:14:22.371
Yeah, like a three-minute video ad.

01:14:22.752 --> 01:14:24.511
Oh, YouTube, what are you doing?

01:14:25.072 --> 01:14:27.733
Anyway, kind of refocusing here.

01:14:28.212 --> 01:14:29.932
So Nate also put together,

01:14:30.252 --> 01:14:31.314
so if you don't know already,

01:14:31.634 --> 01:14:34.413
Nate puts together a data breach roundup

01:14:34.474 --> 01:14:35.975
every week so you can kind of keep

01:14:36.055 --> 01:14:40.036
on top of what is,

01:14:40.475 --> 01:14:41.735
if your information is being breached.

01:14:41.775 --> 01:14:43.417
It's not every data breach, obviously,

01:14:43.436 --> 01:14:44.417
because I feel like that would be

01:14:45.618 --> 01:14:46.418
A lot to cover,

01:14:46.618 --> 01:14:48.460
but it's like basically the biggest ones

01:14:49.081 --> 01:14:50.181
that were this week.

01:14:50.242 --> 01:14:52.484
So kind of giving a quick overview.

01:14:53.784 --> 01:14:57.167
Vimeo had a third party breached.

01:14:59.149 --> 01:15:02.350
Hackers have threatened to leak over nine

01:15:02.411 --> 01:15:04.273
million Amtrak records.

01:15:04.533 --> 01:15:06.675
Medtronic confirms a breach after hackers

01:15:06.694 --> 01:15:08.536
claim nine million records theft.

01:15:09.176 --> 01:15:12.559
And ADT confirms a data breach after shiny

01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:13.180
hunters leaked.

01:15:13.894 --> 01:15:16.796
leak threats so check out that um if

01:15:16.836 --> 01:15:18.537
there's like stuff you want to kind of

01:15:18.577 --> 01:15:21.037
know about those specific things or if you

01:15:21.057 --> 01:15:22.998
want to see if you've had a breach

01:15:23.599 --> 01:15:26.180
or not um that'll be good uh to

01:15:26.201 --> 01:15:29.362
check out and i'd also recommend if you

01:15:29.421 --> 01:15:33.465
do enjoy these podcasts you can go to

01:15:33.645 --> 01:15:37.846
privacyguides.org slash live streams and

01:15:37.867 --> 01:15:39.568
you can subscribe to get those into your

01:15:39.648 --> 01:15:41.689
inbox and you can also um

01:15:43.506 --> 01:15:46.371
find this news updates section.

01:15:46.470 --> 01:15:48.212
You can also subscribe to that to get

01:15:48.233 --> 01:15:49.414
that to your inbox as well.

01:15:50.896 --> 01:15:52.259
Basically gives you an option to choose

01:15:52.298 --> 01:15:53.862
what you'd like to get to your inbox.

01:15:53.881 --> 01:15:55.885
So if you do appreciate that,

01:15:56.045 --> 01:15:59.430
definitely check that out.

01:16:01.470 --> 01:16:02.411
All right.

01:16:02.430 --> 01:16:03.731
So I just want to mention, oh,

01:16:03.771 --> 01:16:04.131
do you want to,

01:16:04.152 --> 01:16:05.452
do you want to add something?

01:16:05.471 --> 01:16:07.091
I was just going to say it's, yeah,

01:16:07.452 --> 01:16:09.172
it's whatever data breaches I find.

01:16:09.252 --> 01:16:10.693
So that's the caveat I give people is

01:16:10.712 --> 01:16:12.154
there may be more that didn't come across

01:16:12.194 --> 01:16:12.873
my newsfeed.

01:16:13.854 --> 01:16:14.993
We always find out about a lot of

01:16:15.014 --> 01:16:15.833
them after the fact.

01:16:15.914 --> 01:16:17.935
So I wouldn't rely on it as a

01:16:17.975 --> 01:16:18.354
Bible,

01:16:18.435 --> 01:16:19.814
but hopefully it'll let you guys know if

01:16:19.854 --> 01:16:21.756
something you use had a breach.

01:16:21.916 --> 01:16:21.996
So.

01:16:23.072 --> 01:16:23.412
Yeah,

01:16:23.532 --> 01:16:25.472
especially because not every company,

01:16:25.893 --> 01:16:26.472
sadly,

01:16:26.773 --> 01:16:28.533
is disclosing this to their users

01:16:28.573 --> 01:16:29.592
properly.

01:16:29.653 --> 01:16:31.713
We hope that most companies are doing the

01:16:31.774 --> 01:16:32.253
right thing,

01:16:32.333 --> 01:16:34.573
but a lot of companies will try and

01:16:34.634 --> 01:16:35.715
minimize the damage.

01:16:36.715 --> 01:16:38.734
So it is kind of important to keep

01:16:38.795 --> 01:16:39.795
up to date on that stuff.

01:16:40.234 --> 01:16:41.475
But I do want to mention all this

01:16:41.515 --> 01:16:43.235
is made possible by our supporters,

01:16:43.456 --> 01:16:44.775
and you can sign up for a membership

01:16:44.876 --> 01:16:48.957
or donate at privacyguides.org or pick up

01:16:48.997 --> 01:16:52.738
some swag at shop.privacyguides.org.

01:16:53.177 --> 01:16:54.838
And you can see that Nate's got one

01:16:54.859 --> 01:16:57.159
of those water bottles you can check out.

01:16:58.341 --> 01:16:59.242
And basically,

01:16:59.381 --> 01:17:01.222
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

01:17:01.283 --> 01:17:03.104
researches and shares privacy-related

01:17:03.144 --> 01:17:05.225
information and facilitates a community on

01:17:05.284 --> 01:17:08.087
our forum and matrix where people can ask

01:17:08.106 --> 01:17:11.108
questions and get advice about staying

01:17:11.149 --> 01:17:13.890
private online and preserving their

01:17:13.930 --> 01:17:14.730
digital rights.

01:17:15.030 --> 01:17:15.331
Now,

01:17:15.831 --> 01:17:17.832
let's dive into this story about

01:17:17.971 --> 01:17:18.693
Talkspace.

01:17:20.619 --> 01:17:21.801
Alrighty, yes.

01:17:22.121 --> 01:17:23.201
So Talkspace.

01:17:24.881 --> 01:17:26.422
Ooh, I hit a button.

01:17:26.563 --> 01:17:27.243
Talkspace,

01:17:27.903 --> 01:17:29.064
many of you have probably heard of

01:17:29.104 --> 01:17:32.425
Talkspace or similar apps to Talkspace.

01:17:32.545 --> 01:17:32.944
It's a...

01:17:34.608 --> 01:17:35.649
It's an online therapy app,

01:17:35.689 --> 01:17:37.048
kind of like BetterHelp or one of those.

01:17:38.329 --> 01:17:39.890
I have mixed opinions on those personally.

01:17:40.230 --> 01:17:42.533
I'm a big proponent of therapy, very open.

01:17:42.693 --> 01:17:43.632
I have depression.

01:17:44.092 --> 01:17:45.413
I've been in and out of therapy.

01:17:45.533 --> 01:17:47.095
I've been on and off medication over the

01:17:47.114 --> 01:17:47.414
years.

01:17:48.376 --> 01:17:49.475
It's been really great for me.

01:17:49.636 --> 01:17:50.337
And I also,

01:17:50.936 --> 01:17:52.518
growing up as a teenager in the days

01:17:52.578 --> 01:17:53.939
of instant messaging and stuff,

01:17:54.118 --> 01:17:56.319
I understand how sometimes it can be a

01:17:56.340 --> 01:17:57.640
little bit easier to open up to a

01:17:57.701 --> 01:17:58.881
screen instead of a person.

01:17:59.282 --> 01:18:01.302
That is actually a known psychological

01:18:01.323 --> 01:18:02.184
phenomenon where like,

01:18:03.377 --> 01:18:04.699
When, ironically,

01:18:04.739 --> 01:18:06.042
when there's not a face in front of

01:18:06.061 --> 01:18:07.082
you, it goes both ways.

01:18:07.103 --> 01:18:08.805
Sometimes having a face humanizes it and

01:18:08.824 --> 01:18:10.306
makes the emotional connection better.

01:18:10.766 --> 01:18:11.847
Other times it makes it a little more

01:18:11.887 --> 01:18:13.409
anonymous so it's easier to open up.

01:18:15.244 --> 01:18:15.845
But unfortunately,

01:18:15.864 --> 01:18:18.305
a lot of these apps are riddled with

01:18:18.506 --> 01:18:19.466
privacy concerns.

01:18:20.787 --> 01:18:21.487
And I mean,

01:18:22.606 --> 01:18:24.007
the headline of this article kind of

01:18:24.047 --> 01:18:24.667
really says it all.

01:18:24.688 --> 01:18:27.788
So this woman, I believe there was a,

01:18:29.288 --> 01:18:30.810
is this, let me double check here.

01:18:30.829 --> 01:18:32.069
Was this the same story I was thinking

01:18:32.090 --> 01:18:32.229
of?

01:18:33.211 --> 01:18:35.230
I believe this woman was let go from

01:18:35.251 --> 01:18:35.951
a job.

01:18:35.970 --> 01:18:38.311
I'm trying to scroll down and find that

01:18:38.332 --> 01:18:39.432
part to make sure I have the story

01:18:39.472 --> 01:18:39.653
right.

01:18:41.992 --> 01:18:42.594
But basically,

01:18:42.895 --> 01:18:44.962
I'm trying to explain why her stuff came

01:18:45.021 --> 01:18:46.485
up in a court case.

01:18:48.752 --> 01:18:49.094
But...

01:18:50.713 --> 01:18:52.274
I'll find it while I'm talking, but yeah,

01:18:52.335 --> 01:18:53.657
I think she, she was, um,

01:18:53.676 --> 01:18:55.118
she was involved in, uh,

01:18:55.137 --> 01:18:56.219
she was let go from a job and

01:18:56.238 --> 01:18:57.800
she tried to sue for discrimination and

01:18:57.840 --> 01:19:00.502
basically say that she was wrongfully let

01:19:00.523 --> 01:19:00.662
go.

01:19:00.722 --> 01:19:00.983
Yes.

01:19:01.182 --> 01:19:01.384
Okay.

01:19:01.663 --> 01:19:02.064
Um,

01:19:02.083 --> 01:19:03.485
so she tried to sue for pregnancy

01:19:03.525 --> 01:19:04.707
discrimination cause she was almost nine

01:19:04.747 --> 01:19:05.247
months pregnant.

01:19:05.887 --> 01:19:06.627
And, um,

01:19:06.728 --> 01:19:08.390
ultimately the judge decided that that

01:19:08.770 --> 01:19:09.791
wasn't what happened here.

01:19:09.850 --> 01:19:11.051
The company said they shut down her

01:19:11.091 --> 01:19:12.974
location just for financial reasons.

01:19:13.373 --> 01:19:16.837
Um, which is really unfortunate, but, uh,

01:19:17.753 --> 01:19:19.114
as a part of this court case,

01:19:19.295 --> 01:19:20.055
for some reason, uh,

01:19:20.095 --> 01:19:23.457
or backtracking a little bit when she was

01:19:23.497 --> 01:19:25.158
let go, she turned to talk space.

01:19:25.219 --> 01:19:25.538
Cause again,

01:19:25.578 --> 01:19:26.819
she was like almost nine months pregnant.

01:19:27.380 --> 01:19:27.840
And, uh,

01:19:27.859 --> 01:19:29.341
she was opening up to this therapist about

01:19:29.381 --> 01:19:31.601
like how worried she is that she may

01:19:31.641 --> 01:19:32.743
not be able to find a job when

01:19:32.762 --> 01:19:34.743
she's so close to going into labor.

01:19:35.465 --> 01:19:37.065
And for some reason,

01:19:38.145 --> 01:19:39.806
this was considered part of the evidence

01:19:39.846 --> 01:19:40.787
that was entered into court.

01:19:41.708 --> 01:19:42.309
And, um,

01:19:43.569 --> 01:19:45.130
I think – I mean as far as

01:19:45.170 --> 01:19:45.751
that story goes,

01:19:45.831 --> 01:19:46.990
it's very straightforward.

01:19:47.251 --> 01:19:49.952
But what this article really – and I

01:19:49.971 --> 01:19:51.952
don't mean like – there's no story here,

01:19:51.992 --> 01:19:52.832
but let me explain.

01:19:53.672 --> 01:19:55.432
What the article really explored a lot

01:19:55.472 --> 01:19:57.493
more and focused on was the idea that

01:19:58.993 --> 01:20:04.755
these online chat apps are really –

01:20:03.105 --> 01:20:04.487
kind of dangerous, unfortunately.

01:20:05.667 --> 01:20:06.828
Because, you know, one, one,

01:20:07.329 --> 01:20:09.792
one therapist that they talked to found or

01:20:09.811 --> 01:20:11.132
kind of pointed out that it's like most

01:20:11.172 --> 01:20:13.614
therapists don't keep transcripts.

01:20:13.895 --> 01:20:15.777
Like when you go in person and talk

01:20:15.817 --> 01:20:16.377
to a therapist,

01:20:16.777 --> 01:20:17.778
they might write some notes.

01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:19.539
And a lot of them,

01:20:19.579 --> 01:20:21.341
like after the session will, again,

01:20:21.381 --> 01:20:22.922
they'll summarize what happened,

01:20:23.422 --> 01:20:25.305
but they don't keep a word for word

01:20:25.345 --> 01:20:27.166
transcript of everything that happened.

01:20:28.787 --> 01:20:30.328
And there is a lot of like,

01:20:31.604 --> 01:20:33.006
Kind of branching out from there,

01:20:33.105 --> 01:20:33.326
you know,

01:20:33.466 --> 01:20:38.030
actual therapy is protected by a lot of

01:20:38.110 --> 01:20:38.650
legal things.

01:20:38.690 --> 01:20:39.131
And obviously,

01:20:39.171 --> 01:20:40.393
like when it comes to a court order,

01:20:40.552 --> 01:20:41.895
a lot of these legal protections in any

01:20:41.935 --> 01:20:43.275
situation kind of go off the table.

01:20:44.056 --> 01:20:45.939
But the problem is a lot of these

01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:47.801
these apps are.

01:20:48.341 --> 01:20:49.762
Don't even offer that basic level of

01:20:49.802 --> 01:20:50.264
protection.

01:20:51.944 --> 01:20:53.145
This article does mention HIPAA,

01:20:53.207 --> 01:20:55.148
which is the worst thing in the world

01:20:55.167 --> 01:20:56.590
that we could possibly cite when it comes

01:20:56.609 --> 01:20:57.810
to these kind of stories because HIPAA

01:20:57.850 --> 01:21:00.313
does not have really hardly anything to do

01:21:00.332 --> 01:21:00.913
with privacy.

01:21:01.493 --> 01:21:02.595
They said that it requires people's

01:21:02.614 --> 01:21:04.117
information to be de-identified,

01:21:04.216 --> 01:21:07.198
but that's probably about it.

01:21:07.779 --> 01:21:09.041
HIPAA is not really about privacy.

01:21:10.521 --> 01:21:12.203
It's really a lot more about privacy.

01:21:12.500 --> 01:21:13.039
I don't know.

01:21:13.060 --> 01:21:14.261
It's just, yeah.

01:21:14.381 --> 01:21:15.041
So anyways,

01:21:16.301 --> 01:21:17.242
a lot of these apps have it in

01:21:17.261 --> 01:21:18.823
their terms of service that basically once

01:21:18.842 --> 01:21:19.502
you start using them,

01:21:19.523 --> 01:21:20.382
they can do whatever they want.

01:21:20.483 --> 01:21:21.804
And I mean, that's how all apps are,

01:21:21.863 --> 01:21:22.083
right?

01:21:22.503 --> 01:21:23.444
Except I think a lot of people don't

01:21:23.484 --> 01:21:24.404
realize that going in.

01:21:25.404 --> 01:21:26.746
And so this company specifically,

01:21:26.786 --> 01:21:27.265
Talkspace,

01:21:27.286 --> 01:21:29.226
they're very proud of the fact that they

01:21:29.247 --> 01:21:30.728
have one of the largest mental health

01:21:30.768 --> 01:21:32.108
databanks in the world containing a

01:21:32.188 --> 01:21:33.769
hundred and forty million message

01:21:33.809 --> 01:21:34.328
exchanges.

01:21:35.029 --> 01:21:37.170
And they're going to use that to build

01:21:37.210 --> 01:21:38.551
an AI therapy chatbot.

01:21:39.846 --> 01:21:40.988
And I'm sure that'll go great.

01:21:41.127 --> 01:21:43.730
And we have definitely not seen any

01:21:43.791 --> 01:21:45.552
extremely tragic stories in the news,

01:21:46.173 --> 01:21:47.055
thanks to chatbots.

01:21:47.255 --> 01:21:48.655
So I'm sure that'll go awesome.

01:21:49.356 --> 01:21:50.859
But I mean,

01:21:50.878 --> 01:21:51.819
these things are just riddled with

01:21:51.859 --> 01:21:52.220
problems.

01:21:52.579 --> 01:21:54.301
We have seen, there was,

01:21:54.421 --> 01:21:55.063
I believe in the UK,

01:21:56.411 --> 01:21:57.891
there was a very similar app that got

01:21:57.912 --> 01:22:01.835
caught selling actual transcripts to

01:22:01.895 --> 01:22:02.494
advertisers.

01:22:02.675 --> 01:22:04.615
So like not even the inferred data,

01:22:04.655 --> 01:22:07.118
like the actual chat logs to advertisers,

01:22:07.177 --> 01:22:07.979
not even to the court.

01:22:09.259 --> 01:22:10.220
I know this app,

01:22:10.239 --> 01:22:11.581
because I checked them on Wikipedia very

01:22:11.621 --> 01:22:13.702
briefly, this app and BetterHelp,

01:22:13.761 --> 01:22:15.023
I think BetterHelp was accused,

01:22:15.463 --> 01:22:16.163
but I could be wrong.

01:22:16.243 --> 01:22:17.904
This app was, or like BetterHelp,

01:22:17.944 --> 01:22:18.565
we proved it.

01:22:18.645 --> 01:22:20.006
This app, I don't think we proved it.

01:22:20.966 --> 01:22:23.168
But they had both been accused of

01:22:24.233 --> 01:22:26.515
Not using licensed therapists and playing

01:22:26.576 --> 01:22:28.056
really fast and loose on like maybe you're

01:22:28.077 --> 01:22:29.878
talking with a volunteer or something like

01:22:29.899 --> 01:22:30.100
that.

01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:32.702
And I don't know how they get away

01:22:32.721 --> 01:22:33.622
with that one because there are very

01:22:33.682 --> 01:22:34.423
strict rules,

01:22:35.145 --> 01:22:36.646
even in between states here in the US.

01:22:36.686 --> 01:22:37.807
Like when my wife and I moved out

01:22:37.847 --> 01:22:38.087
of state,

01:22:38.108 --> 01:22:40.430
she couldn't keep her old therapist and

01:22:40.451 --> 01:22:41.492
they were very upset about that because

01:22:41.511 --> 01:22:42.733
they had a great relationship and they

01:22:43.092 --> 01:22:43.814
were doing really well.

01:22:43.873 --> 01:22:45.515
But yeah, it's like...

01:22:46.944 --> 01:22:47.864
It's just crazy stuff.

01:22:47.885 --> 01:22:48.966
And it's, it's really unfortunate.

01:22:48.985 --> 01:22:49.905
I don't know if we have too much

01:22:49.926 --> 01:22:50.806
to say about this story,

01:22:50.846 --> 01:22:51.846
but I think it's really important to

01:22:51.867 --> 01:22:52.207
highlight.

01:22:52.268 --> 01:22:53.228
Cause again, I,

01:22:54.229 --> 01:22:55.710
this frustrates me because therapy is

01:22:55.989 --> 01:22:57.831
freaking expensive, right?

01:22:57.952 --> 01:22:59.653
Like I think everybody knows that it's a

01:22:59.693 --> 01:23:01.413
form of healthcare and at least here in

01:23:01.434 --> 01:23:03.314
the U S our healthcare system is

01:23:03.354 --> 01:23:05.636
incredibly broken and it's,

01:23:05.756 --> 01:23:08.979
it's so expensive, but it's so valuable,

01:23:09.078 --> 01:23:10.380
especially in today's day and age.

01:23:10.899 --> 01:23:12.541
And it's really unfortunate that this

01:23:12.560 --> 01:23:13.721
stuff is not being protected.

01:23:13.761 --> 01:23:14.962
There's no laws around this.

01:23:15.582 --> 01:23:16.224
It's, it's not,

01:23:17.185 --> 01:23:18.386
I mean, I guess there's HIPAA, but again,

01:23:18.405 --> 01:23:19.287
that doesn't have anything to do with

01:23:19.328 --> 01:23:19.728
privacy.

01:23:19.807 --> 01:23:21.770
So it's really unfortunate that this is

01:23:21.831 --> 01:23:24.434
being abused the way that it is.

01:23:24.654 --> 01:23:28.579
And I will say, in my personal opinion,

01:23:28.659 --> 01:23:29.661
if your choices are...

01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:32.039
I'm not going to go to therapy and

01:23:32.100 --> 01:23:34.501
I'm probably going to suffer or I can

01:23:34.541 --> 01:23:35.661
take advantage of one of these apps.

01:23:35.761 --> 01:23:37.002
I would say it's still probably worth

01:23:37.021 --> 01:23:37.962
taking advantage of the app,

01:23:38.521 --> 01:23:40.542
but unfortunately it's, you know,

01:23:40.601 --> 01:23:41.042
me personally,

01:23:41.182 --> 01:23:42.002
I always give the advice of like,

01:23:42.042 --> 01:23:43.042
don't lie to your doctor, right?

01:23:43.063 --> 01:23:45.484
We talk about like data breaches and, um,

01:23:45.524 --> 01:23:46.203
how do you keep your,

01:23:46.323 --> 01:23:47.743
your data from being swept up?

01:23:47.884 --> 01:23:49.444
And in a lot of cases you can

01:23:49.505 --> 01:23:50.864
use PO box, which for the record,

01:23:50.885 --> 01:23:51.984
you should still do this with your doctor.

01:23:52.005 --> 01:23:52.905
You can use a PO box,

01:23:52.926 --> 01:23:54.225
you can use a forwarding email address,

01:23:54.246 --> 01:23:54.666
but

01:23:54.985 --> 01:23:56.867
But when I order something on Amazon,

01:23:57.046 --> 01:23:58.028
I can get it sent to a locker.

01:23:58.148 --> 01:23:59.148
I can use a fake name,

01:23:59.228 --> 01:23:59.929
something like that.

01:24:00.288 --> 01:24:01.270
When I talk to my doctor,

01:24:01.369 --> 01:24:03.131
I kind of have to be real about

01:24:03.171 --> 01:24:03.871
what's going on.

01:24:03.911 --> 01:24:04.971
They have to be able to treat me,

01:24:05.011 --> 01:24:06.853
whether that's a medical doctor or a

01:24:06.893 --> 01:24:07.372
therapist.

01:24:07.993 --> 01:24:09.293
And so it's really unfortunate that these

01:24:09.314 --> 01:24:13.195
things are just not being treated with the

01:24:13.235 --> 01:24:15.278
level of protection legally and

01:24:15.318 --> 01:24:16.677
technologically that they deserve.

01:24:16.779 --> 01:24:17.599
And I think that's just –

01:24:19.118 --> 01:24:20.380
It's unfortunate because again, you know,

01:24:20.399 --> 01:24:22.762
we talked earlier about when you're being

01:24:22.823 --> 01:24:24.463
surveilled, it changes your behavior.

01:24:24.564 --> 01:24:25.585
And so if I had to use one

01:24:25.604 --> 01:24:26.466
of these apps, like again,

01:24:26.485 --> 01:24:27.627
if I'm in a situation where it's like,

01:24:27.747 --> 01:24:29.788
I can either not get treatment and things

01:24:29.809 --> 01:24:30.609
are not going to go well,

01:24:30.710 --> 01:24:31.951
or I can go get treatment through one

01:24:31.970 --> 01:24:32.471
of these apps,

01:24:33.511 --> 01:24:35.755
just using the app is going to change

01:24:35.895 --> 01:24:38.056
how I talk and what I open up

01:24:38.096 --> 01:24:38.337
about.

01:24:38.457 --> 01:24:40.878
And that's just, it's so tragic,

01:24:40.899 --> 01:24:42.000
but unfortunately it's something we have

01:24:42.020 --> 01:24:43.041
to let people know about because this is

01:24:43.081 --> 01:24:44.242
something you have to be aware of.

01:24:44.301 --> 01:24:44.722
So yeah.

01:24:45.400 --> 01:24:45.701
Um,

01:24:46.381 --> 01:24:47.242
I don't think I have much more to

01:24:47.282 --> 01:24:49.122
say about that without going in circles,

01:24:49.203 --> 01:24:50.603
but that is a,

01:24:51.984 --> 01:24:53.505
that is what's going on with these apps

01:24:53.524 --> 01:24:53.885
there.

01:24:54.085 --> 01:24:56.246
Um, if you can go to in-person therapy,

01:24:56.286 --> 01:24:57.527
that would probably always be better,

01:24:57.867 --> 01:24:59.427
unfortunately, or even telehealth,

01:24:59.547 --> 01:25:01.248
even if it's recorded or not recorded,

01:25:01.269 --> 01:25:03.369
but even if it's takes place over zoom

01:25:03.409 --> 01:25:03.869
or something,

01:25:03.890 --> 01:25:05.090
that's still probably better than these,

01:25:05.149 --> 01:25:06.211
unfortunately.

01:25:06.251 --> 01:25:06.350
So.

01:25:10.841 --> 01:25:13.042
I think one thing that's also kind of

01:25:14.944 --> 01:25:16.484
like an issue with these telehealth apps,

01:25:16.503 --> 01:25:17.545
like we've seen in the past,

01:25:17.645 --> 01:25:19.386
I don't know if anyone remembers,

01:25:19.445 --> 01:25:25.828
but BetterHelp was also an online very,

01:25:25.887 --> 01:25:27.128
it's actually extremely,

01:25:27.988 --> 01:25:30.189
like it's promoted a lot everywhere on

01:25:30.250 --> 01:25:31.951
podcasts, on YouTube,

01:25:32.451 --> 01:25:33.211
basically everywhere.

01:25:33.230 --> 01:25:35.452
Like I've seen like probably hundreds of

01:25:35.532 --> 01:25:38.833
ads for BetterHelp at this point where,

01:25:38.873 --> 01:25:39.113
you know,

01:25:40.614 --> 01:25:43.016
they were sharing sensitive health data.

01:25:44.759 --> 01:25:45.859
And I think they were fined.

01:25:45.899 --> 01:25:45.979
Yeah,

01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:47.661
they were fined seven point eight million

01:25:48.622 --> 01:25:50.823
by the Federal Trade Commission in the US.

01:25:50.884 --> 01:25:53.426
So, you know,

01:25:53.626 --> 01:25:57.449
I think it's I do have some questions

01:25:57.489 --> 01:25:59.551
about this article in particular, though,

01:25:59.610 --> 01:26:05.555
like how how exactly like it's it's

01:26:07.578 --> 01:26:09.599
How is it allowed that these records could

01:26:09.639 --> 01:26:10.680
become public, though?

01:26:10.760 --> 01:26:16.082
Like, isn't there some sort of, like...

01:26:16.502 --> 01:26:17.323
I don't think so,

01:26:17.382 --> 01:26:18.783
because according to the article,

01:26:19.583 --> 01:26:21.524
really one of the only stipulations that

01:26:21.585 --> 01:26:23.666
HIPAA has is that the medical information

01:26:23.706 --> 01:26:26.207
needs to be anonymized,

01:26:27.487 --> 01:26:28.627
which is one of those things that, like,

01:26:30.009 --> 01:26:31.369
We always point out it doesn't take a

01:26:31.409 --> 01:26:32.891
lot of information to de-anonymize

01:26:32.931 --> 01:26:33.292
somebody.

01:26:33.391 --> 01:26:34.833
Like location is a really good example.

01:26:34.913 --> 01:26:36.854
How many people in the world spend eight

01:26:36.875 --> 01:26:38.917
hours a day at one location and then

01:26:39.016 --> 01:26:40.878
eight hours a day at another location?

01:26:41.439 --> 01:26:42.480
Probably not a lot.

01:26:43.020 --> 01:26:44.922
So it's the same thing with like a

01:26:44.962 --> 01:26:45.603
lot of therapy.

01:26:45.644 --> 01:26:46.925
Like how many people have that specific

01:26:46.944 --> 01:26:47.564
backstory,

01:26:47.604 --> 01:26:49.686
have that specific combination of

01:26:49.747 --> 01:26:51.149
symptoms, have this specific...

01:26:51.588 --> 01:26:52.109
And I mean,

01:26:52.229 --> 01:26:53.631
also like when you're going through the

01:26:53.711 --> 01:26:54.452
log, like...

01:26:55.265 --> 01:26:56.666
or like when you're talking to your

01:26:56.706 --> 01:26:57.065
therapist,

01:26:57.086 --> 01:26:58.387
you're not gonna use like made up names

01:26:58.427 --> 01:26:59.228
most of the time, right?

01:26:59.247 --> 01:27:00.208
You're not gonna be like, yeah,

01:27:00.248 --> 01:27:03.251
so my ex, let's call her,

01:27:03.551 --> 01:27:06.753
I'm trying to think of a name, Alice,

01:27:06.833 --> 01:27:07.033
right?

01:27:07.073 --> 01:27:07.935
Let's call her Alice.

01:27:08.175 --> 01:27:08.895
You're not gonna do that.

01:27:08.916 --> 01:27:10.197
You're gonna use the actual name.

01:27:10.898 --> 01:27:13.118
And so it's just, yeah,

01:27:13.338 --> 01:27:14.500
I don't understand how,

01:27:14.980 --> 01:27:15.962
I think it's just one of those cases

01:27:16.002 --> 01:27:19.444
where like legislation has not caught up

01:27:19.784 --> 01:27:21.326
to the situation that we're in right now

01:27:21.966 --> 01:27:22.806
is what I think it is.

01:27:22.907 --> 01:27:23.887
I think it worked back,

01:27:24.466 --> 01:27:25.447
in the nineteen eighties,

01:27:25.506 --> 01:27:26.506
but I don't know if it would work

01:27:26.567 --> 01:27:26.766
now.

01:27:27.908 --> 01:27:28.148
Yeah,

01:27:28.287 --> 01:27:29.667
I don't think they I don't think they

01:27:29.707 --> 01:27:32.329
thought we'd all be seeing therapists on

01:27:32.430 --> 01:27:37.692
our glass slabs and typing everything our

01:27:37.771 --> 01:27:38.872
entire life into it.

01:27:39.712 --> 01:27:43.435
So HIPAA was passed in nineteen ninety

01:27:43.534 --> 01:27:43.954
six.

01:27:45.274 --> 01:27:45.595
Yeah,

01:27:45.636 --> 01:27:47.636
definitely before any sort of it was not

01:27:47.655 --> 01:27:49.556
when The Matrix came out.

01:27:49.577 --> 01:27:50.497
When did The Matrix come out?

01:27:50.978 --> 01:27:52.439
Oh, nineteen ninety ninety ninety nine.

01:27:52.719 --> 01:27:53.219
But yeah.

01:27:54.246 --> 01:27:55.426
I don't pay attention to this stuff.

01:27:56.327 --> 01:27:57.087
Yeah.

01:27:57.146 --> 01:27:57.407
Anyway,

01:27:57.487 --> 01:28:01.469
so I guess the thing with this is

01:28:01.529 --> 01:28:03.429
I think it's kind of – this is

01:28:03.469 --> 01:28:04.850
kind of a clear breach of people's

01:28:04.869 --> 01:28:05.750
consent, right?

01:28:05.770 --> 01:28:07.751
Because when you're talking to a

01:28:07.791 --> 01:28:08.270
therapist,

01:28:08.310 --> 01:28:11.572
you consent to sharing very sensitive,

01:28:11.692 --> 01:28:13.073
sometimes things you would never tell

01:28:13.113 --> 01:28:13.932
anyone else, right?

01:28:13.953 --> 01:28:15.774
You're –

01:28:16.442 --> 01:28:18.162
This is information and things you're

01:28:18.182 --> 01:28:20.503
telling somebody that you would never want

01:28:20.564 --> 01:28:21.283
to be public.

01:28:23.005 --> 01:28:27.186
So I think this is basically a it's

01:28:27.226 --> 01:28:29.587
breaching the trust of everyone that uses

01:28:29.627 --> 01:28:30.688
the platform, I think.

01:28:33.229 --> 01:28:34.409
Obviously, there should be more.

01:28:36.724 --> 01:28:37.826
protection, like, I mean,

01:28:38.046 --> 01:28:40.189
I think that if there's these sort of

01:28:40.229 --> 01:28:41.610
telehealth apps, right.

01:28:42.292 --> 01:28:44.094
I think they shouldn't be saving the

01:28:44.134 --> 01:28:45.114
conversations.

01:28:45.296 --> 01:28:47.018
It should be end to end encrypted.

01:28:47.057 --> 01:28:47.498
It should be.

01:28:49.021 --> 01:28:51.243
deleted after a certain period of time.

01:28:51.323 --> 01:28:52.543
Like, you know,

01:28:52.564 --> 01:28:54.505
there should be more stuff than that.

01:28:54.586 --> 01:28:55.565
And apparently according to this,

01:28:55.586 --> 01:28:57.426
it was saying there was, you know,

01:28:57.908 --> 01:29:00.248
a hundred and forty million message

01:29:00.309 --> 01:29:01.029
exchanges.

01:29:01.710 --> 01:29:04.332
Like that is a ridiculous amount of

01:29:04.391 --> 01:29:05.011
information.

01:29:06.193 --> 01:29:08.054
And even if it was like,

01:29:08.213 --> 01:29:10.416
like Nate said, de-anonymized,

01:29:10.735 --> 01:29:13.597
like if I'm talking about something

01:29:13.917 --> 01:29:15.078
specific to my life,

01:29:15.118 --> 01:29:16.779
I think it wouldn't be that hard to

01:29:16.859 --> 01:29:17.260
find

01:29:19.021 --> 01:29:20.002
that person.

01:29:20.042 --> 01:29:20.603
Like if you're,

01:29:20.643 --> 01:29:21.882
if you're talking about something pretty

01:29:21.922 --> 01:29:23.203
specific to you, right.

01:29:24.083 --> 01:29:25.224
So, uh,

01:29:25.385 --> 01:29:28.865
this is just kind of disgusting and yeah,

01:29:29.126 --> 01:29:31.426
it's, I think that, yeah, you're right.

01:29:31.466 --> 01:29:31.686
The,

01:29:31.747 --> 01:29:33.828
the laws definitely haven't caught up to

01:29:33.868 --> 01:29:36.769
this globally even.

01:29:36.788 --> 01:29:38.609
Well, and just to, to, um,

01:29:38.989 --> 01:29:40.470
to add onto one thing you said, you,

01:29:40.591 --> 01:29:41.390
you mentioned like,

01:29:41.411 --> 01:29:41.690
this is a

01:29:44.778 --> 01:29:46.779
it's quote unquote not because it was in

01:29:46.800 --> 01:29:47.820
the terms of service, right?

01:29:47.900 --> 01:29:50.063
The terms of service that nobody reads and

01:29:50.082 --> 01:29:51.844
that are also like super vague anyways.

01:29:51.884 --> 01:29:54.206
Like we will share your data with trusted

01:29:54.246 --> 01:29:56.228
business partners for legitimate business

01:29:56.268 --> 01:29:56.689
reasons.

01:29:56.729 --> 01:29:57.429
And it's like, Oh cool.

01:29:57.448 --> 01:29:59.430
That's, that's really specific.

01:29:59.470 --> 01:29:59.951
Thanks bro.

01:30:00.412 --> 01:30:01.693
So yeah, it's, I mean,

01:30:01.712 --> 01:30:03.073
that's another major problem that

01:30:03.113 --> 01:30:04.735
everybody's identified for years is just

01:30:04.756 --> 01:30:05.435
these,

01:30:05.456 --> 01:30:07.118
these terms of service are so broad and

01:30:07.158 --> 01:30:09.099
so vague that they allow the company to

01:30:09.139 --> 01:30:10.581
do basically anything they want.

01:30:11.261 --> 01:30:11.742
And, um,

01:30:12.704 --> 01:30:13.645
It's just, yeah,

01:30:13.926 --> 01:30:15.226
unfortunately that's another, I mean,

01:30:15.247 --> 01:30:16.427
there's so many things that need to be

01:30:16.467 --> 01:30:17.269
fixed about our system,

01:30:17.288 --> 01:30:19.631
but that's a big one, I think so.

01:30:20.511 --> 01:30:20.993
Yeah, no,

01:30:21.073 --> 01:30:24.055
it's definitely someone said in the chat,

01:30:24.195 --> 01:30:25.577
wait, what is happening?

01:30:26.845 --> 01:30:27.046
Yeah,

01:30:27.086 --> 01:30:28.186
there's kind of a random time to join.

01:30:28.226 --> 01:30:28.306
Yeah,

01:30:28.327 --> 01:30:33.551
so there was this app called Women's

01:30:33.591 --> 01:30:35.672
Talkspace, which is like a therapy app,

01:30:35.712 --> 01:30:37.875
which breached a bunch of people's

01:30:37.914 --> 01:30:38.515
information.

01:30:39.115 --> 01:30:40.216
I guess if you want to learn more

01:30:40.256 --> 01:30:42.557
about it, check out the articles about it,

01:30:42.597 --> 01:30:44.380
because we did kind of talk about it

01:30:44.420 --> 01:30:44.720
already.

01:30:47.542 --> 01:30:48.023
Yeah, coming,

01:30:48.342 --> 01:30:51.125
so there was another person whose name is

01:30:51.845 --> 01:30:54.025
T, thank you for your podcast.

01:30:54.206 --> 01:30:54.826
And then they said,

01:30:55.527 --> 01:30:58.247
coming from mental health,

01:30:58.347 --> 01:31:00.828
a lack of privacy absolutely destroys the

01:31:00.868 --> 01:31:02.810
therapeutic alliance with the client.

01:31:03.869 --> 01:31:04.730
Pretty much, yeah.

01:31:04.990 --> 01:31:07.971
Like if my therapist or psychologist

01:31:08.011 --> 01:31:11.293
started telling random people what I was

01:31:11.373 --> 01:31:11.873
telling them,

01:31:12.014 --> 01:31:14.675
I would be kind of disgusted and I

01:31:14.694 --> 01:31:15.595
would never see them again.

01:31:15.775 --> 01:31:15.855
Yeah.

01:31:16.597 --> 01:31:17.639
That's exactly what I was thinking.

01:31:17.658 --> 01:31:17.798
Like,

01:31:17.838 --> 01:31:19.520
imagine you walk in and your therapist is

01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:20.862
just like chatting with the receptionist.

01:31:20.881 --> 01:31:21.662
They're like, yeah.

01:31:21.742 --> 01:31:23.042
And then they said this and they said

01:31:23.082 --> 01:31:24.585
this and it's like, what the fuck?

01:31:24.645 --> 01:31:25.845
I'm never coming back here.

01:31:25.985 --> 01:31:28.167
Like that's basically what they're doing.

01:31:28.207 --> 01:31:28.728
It's crazy.

01:31:29.007 --> 01:31:29.349
Yeah.

01:31:29.368 --> 01:31:30.970
But apparently because it's a digital

01:31:30.989 --> 01:31:32.291
platform, it's suddenly,

01:31:32.810 --> 01:31:34.051
it's suddenly acceptable.

01:31:34.292 --> 01:31:38.095
But yeah, this was really awful.

01:31:39.248 --> 01:31:39.810
What were we...

01:31:40.609 --> 01:31:41.650
We're talking about something.

01:31:42.311 --> 01:31:43.252
Oh, I think it's coming up still.

01:31:43.292 --> 01:31:46.216
But we were mentioning some of the issues

01:31:46.235 --> 01:31:47.976
with the laws in America as far as

01:31:48.037 --> 01:31:49.719
privacy is that a lot of them are

01:31:49.779 --> 01:31:51.740
really solid in the real world but haven't

01:31:51.780 --> 01:31:52.742
moved online.

01:31:52.782 --> 01:31:54.304
So things like the third-party doctrine

01:31:54.323 --> 01:31:55.545
where it's like, oh,

01:31:55.585 --> 01:31:57.046
when you hand your data to a third

01:31:57.086 --> 01:31:57.426
party...

01:31:57.947 --> 01:31:59.347
you lose control of that data.

01:31:59.747 --> 01:32:00.349
So like if you,

01:32:00.569 --> 01:32:02.250
trying to think of an example that would

01:32:02.270 --> 01:32:03.569
have applied under the third party

01:32:03.609 --> 01:32:04.930
doctrine, I don't know,

01:32:04.951 --> 01:32:06.993
if you bought something at a store, right?

01:32:07.472 --> 01:32:08.833
Then of course they're gonna have like

01:32:08.894 --> 01:32:10.534
that transaction, the receipt,

01:32:10.555 --> 01:32:11.595
they're gonna have you on the security

01:32:11.635 --> 01:32:12.256
camera or whatever.

01:32:12.655 --> 01:32:14.277
But that one hasn't really translated very

01:32:14.317 --> 01:32:16.979
well into the digital world where you're

01:32:16.998 --> 01:32:18.979
handing over data to like everybody all

01:32:19.020 --> 01:32:19.420
the time.

01:32:19.460 --> 01:32:20.640
There's all these advertisers and

01:32:20.761 --> 01:32:22.962
analytics and your ISP counts as a third

01:32:23.021 --> 01:32:23.341
party.

01:32:23.362 --> 01:32:23.983
And it's just like,

01:32:24.382 --> 01:32:25.543
but that's not the same.

01:32:25.684 --> 01:32:27.484
So yeah, it's crazy.

01:32:29.490 --> 01:32:29.810
Yeah.

01:32:29.831 --> 01:32:32.313
There's definitely, uh,

01:32:32.353 --> 01:32:33.975
some interesting discussions that we're

01:32:33.994 --> 01:32:35.136
going to have to work out a lot

01:32:35.176 --> 01:32:37.578
of things to fix this.

01:32:37.698 --> 01:32:39.319
Cause, uh, yeah,

01:32:39.338 --> 01:32:40.881
this shouldn't be happening, but, uh,

01:32:40.900 --> 01:32:42.242
I guess we can move on here to

01:32:42.421 --> 01:32:45.283
the next and final story today.

01:32:46.005 --> 01:32:48.747
And, uh, so this one is about RightsCon.

01:32:49.427 --> 01:32:50.387
Um, if you're not familiar,

01:32:50.467 --> 01:32:53.650
it's basically one of the largest like

01:32:53.690 --> 01:32:55.893
digital rights conferences, uh,

01:32:56.511 --> 01:32:58.752
And last year it was held in Taipei,

01:32:58.792 --> 01:32:59.351
Taiwan.

01:32:59.792 --> 01:33:03.594
But this year it's being held in Zambia,

01:33:04.073 --> 01:33:06.293
which I'm not exactly sure where Zambia

01:33:06.435 --> 01:33:06.614
is.

01:33:06.854 --> 01:33:09.296
I'm going to sound like a silly Australian

01:33:09.336 --> 01:33:09.735
right now.

01:33:10.496 --> 01:33:15.297
I want to say Southern Africa, but oh,

01:33:15.398 --> 01:33:16.497
yeah, I'm not too far off.

01:33:17.478 --> 01:33:18.719
Yeah, I was going to say South Africa,

01:33:18.798 --> 01:33:19.918
but okay.

01:33:19.979 --> 01:33:21.439
Okay.

01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:21.760
Okay.

01:33:22.070 --> 01:33:23.231
Yeah, there we go.

01:33:23.252 --> 01:33:24.012
Sorry, sorry.

01:33:25.033 --> 01:33:26.354
I'm not too familiar with that part of

01:33:26.375 --> 01:33:26.815
the world.

01:33:27.336 --> 01:33:28.677
But yeah, RightsCon,

01:33:28.717 --> 01:33:30.479
a global conference of thousands of

01:33:30.579 --> 01:33:32.381
advocates, technologists, academics,

01:33:32.440 --> 01:33:33.101
policymakers,

01:33:33.181 --> 01:33:35.965
and others concerned with issues at the

01:33:36.005 --> 01:33:37.426
intersection of human rights and

01:33:37.466 --> 01:33:38.027
technology,

01:33:38.426 --> 01:33:41.510
was scheduled to kick off at Wasaka,

01:33:41.671 --> 01:33:43.511
Zambia on May fifth.

01:33:44.273 --> 01:33:46.895
But with just days remaining and with many

01:33:46.914 --> 01:33:48.435
participants already en route,

01:33:49.176 --> 01:33:51.976
the Zambian government officials announced

01:33:51.997 --> 01:33:54.498
that they would postpone the conference in

01:33:54.559 --> 01:33:56.399
order to, in quotes,

01:33:56.819 --> 01:33:59.360
ensure full alignment with Zambia's

01:33:59.461 --> 01:34:00.502
national values,

01:34:00.601 --> 01:34:03.342
policy priorities and broader public

01:34:03.483 --> 01:34:06.685
interest considerations, unquote.

01:34:07.326 --> 01:34:11.028
So that does sound slightly red flaggy.

01:34:11.268 --> 01:34:11.587
You know,

01:34:11.608 --> 01:34:13.088
this is like a conference where they're

01:34:13.109 --> 01:34:13.609
discussing

01:34:14.976 --> 01:34:17.537
people's right to free press,

01:34:17.578 --> 01:34:19.658
people's right to free speech,

01:34:19.717 --> 01:34:21.438
people's right to privacy in their own

01:34:21.478 --> 01:34:21.858
home.

01:34:21.898 --> 01:34:24.658
Like this is definitely like a human

01:34:24.719 --> 01:34:25.779
rights conference, right?

01:34:25.798 --> 01:34:29.140
So this is like extremely sus already.

01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:33.520
And basically on Wednesday,

01:34:33.661 --> 01:34:35.581
after attempting to negotiate a solution,

01:34:35.720 --> 01:34:37.641
rights con organizers announced that the

01:34:37.702 --> 01:34:41.181
event in quotes would not proceed.

01:34:41.582 --> 01:34:44.582
So yeah, basically the event is,

01:34:45.659 --> 01:34:48.721
Not going to happen according to what our

01:34:48.943 --> 01:34:50.063
latest information is.

01:34:50.703 --> 01:34:51.545
On Thursday,

01:34:51.645 --> 01:34:53.445
the Zambian news site News Diggers

01:34:53.506 --> 01:34:55.747
published a report citing well-placed

01:34:55.787 --> 01:34:58.210
sources that told the outlet the summit

01:34:58.250 --> 01:34:59.831
has actually been cancelled because the

01:34:59.871 --> 01:35:02.974
program involves Taiwanese delegates who

01:35:02.993 --> 01:35:05.456
would potentially speak against China at a

01:35:05.475 --> 01:35:09.399
venue donated by the Chinese government.

01:35:09.719 --> 01:35:10.219
Ah, I see.

01:35:10.259 --> 01:35:11.539
So there's like some political...

01:35:12.461 --> 01:35:14.442
There's some political issues going on.

01:35:14.582 --> 01:35:15.903
So I guess that could make sense.

01:35:19.805 --> 01:35:20.046
Yes,

01:35:20.086 --> 01:35:23.967
so there was a statement issued Thursday

01:35:24.029 --> 01:35:25.789
by the advocacy organization.

01:35:27.050 --> 01:35:29.872
Article XIX noted, we are aware of claims,

01:35:29.952 --> 01:35:31.052
many of them well-founded,

01:35:31.092 --> 01:35:32.753
that pressure from foreign governments

01:35:32.793 --> 01:35:35.576
contributed to the Zambian government's

01:35:35.595 --> 01:35:36.055
decision.

01:35:37.737 --> 01:35:39.679
So, yeah, this is...

01:35:40.529 --> 01:35:43.149
I guess not great that there was like

01:35:43.211 --> 01:35:44.992
some pressure to get this canceled

01:35:45.032 --> 01:35:48.153
because, uh, I guess we can know that,

01:35:48.472 --> 01:35:48.673
you know,

01:35:48.734 --> 01:35:50.795
China is sort of one of the largest

01:35:50.835 --> 01:35:53.336
countries in the world that has a pretty

01:35:53.376 --> 01:35:55.938
elaborate censorship scheme and, uh,

01:35:56.837 --> 01:35:58.840
I guess, opposition to digital rights.

01:35:59.980 --> 01:36:00.820
They have, you know,

01:36:00.841 --> 01:36:02.502
the Great Firewall of China that's

01:36:02.523 --> 01:36:04.604
blocking a lot of traffic outside the

01:36:04.644 --> 01:36:04.965
country,

01:36:05.005 --> 01:36:06.945
which does limit the free flow of

01:36:06.985 --> 01:36:07.606
information.

01:36:08.306 --> 01:36:13.470
And also the large scale camera systems

01:36:13.490 --> 01:36:14.692
that they have in the country, which,

01:36:14.792 --> 01:36:15.493
you know,

01:36:15.533 --> 01:36:17.234
they have like a ridiculous amount of

01:36:17.274 --> 01:36:17.694
cameras.

01:36:18.774 --> 01:36:21.096
So I can see how, you know,

01:36:21.136 --> 01:36:24.560
there might be some friction there.

01:36:26.396 --> 01:36:27.898
And there was also this update here.

01:36:28.438 --> 01:36:34.601
The Tor project actually did a little toot

01:36:35.042 --> 01:36:39.104
on Mastodon and they said basically they

01:36:39.264 --> 01:36:41.966
are standing in solidarity with RightsCon

01:36:42.565 --> 01:36:45.847
and AccessNow local organizers basically

01:36:45.887 --> 01:36:46.127
to

01:36:48.453 --> 01:36:49.715
they wanted to highlight it because the

01:36:49.755 --> 01:36:51.675
circumstances behind the cancellation

01:36:51.814 --> 01:36:53.435
underscore the urgent fight against

01:36:53.456 --> 01:36:54.055
censorship,

01:36:54.076 --> 01:36:56.556
surveillance and restrictions on civic

01:36:57.176 --> 01:36:58.137
participation.

01:36:58.318 --> 01:37:00.518
And they also released like this blog post

01:37:00.578 --> 01:37:01.319
along with that.

01:37:04.220 --> 01:37:04.619
And yeah,

01:37:04.659 --> 01:37:06.440
so RightsCon is basically about the right

01:37:06.461 --> 01:37:08.541
to assemble, associate and speak freely.

01:37:08.980 --> 01:37:11.162
And this conference being cancelled is

01:37:12.323 --> 01:37:14.023
kind of like a slap in the face

01:37:14.222 --> 01:37:15.463
of that particularly.

01:37:16.123 --> 01:37:16.363
I think

01:37:18.190 --> 01:37:19.631
everyone in this community is kind of on

01:37:19.652 --> 01:37:20.912
the same page when it comes to this

01:37:20.932 --> 01:37:21.313
stuff.

01:37:22.113 --> 01:37:24.255
Uh, people should be able to assemble,

01:37:24.314 --> 01:37:26.996
associate and speak freely and, you know,

01:37:27.036 --> 01:37:28.577
people's digital rights are important.

01:37:28.716 --> 01:37:32.680
So it's not great that this is being

01:37:32.699 --> 01:37:33.359
canceled.

01:37:33.961 --> 01:37:36.721
Um, because, you know,

01:37:36.902 --> 01:37:39.543
human rights are important like online and

01:37:39.623 --> 01:37:40.144
offline.

01:37:40.984 --> 01:37:44.506
Um, but yeah, that's sort of,

01:37:46.090 --> 01:37:47.751
what I thought of this.

01:37:48.230 --> 01:37:49.372
I think this is just concerning.

01:37:49.412 --> 01:37:51.332
We can see like the control that foreign

01:37:51.372 --> 01:37:54.375
governments have over stuff like this,

01:37:54.475 --> 01:37:55.954
but it's unfortunate to see this

01:37:55.994 --> 01:37:57.015
conference cancelled.

01:38:00.494 --> 01:38:00.835
Yeah,

01:38:00.935 --> 01:38:02.176
I don't think I have much to add

01:38:02.195 --> 01:38:02.515
to that.

01:38:02.855 --> 01:38:04.976
It's very – it reminds me a lot

01:38:05.197 --> 01:38:06.457
of – well, I mean, first of all,

01:38:06.476 --> 01:38:08.917
I think it's important to note that this

01:38:09.337 --> 01:38:11.038
first article that we quoted from said

01:38:11.078 --> 01:38:13.579
that according to the nonprofit watchdog

01:38:13.619 --> 01:38:14.399
Freedom House,

01:38:14.859 --> 01:38:16.780
Zambia ranks as partly free,

01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:20.122
and they know – and that's on digital

01:38:20.162 --> 01:38:21.181
rights and free expression.

01:38:21.582 --> 01:38:23.243
The government has imprisoned individuals

01:38:23.283 --> 01:38:24.823
for online speech critical of the current

01:38:24.844 --> 01:38:25.224
government,

01:38:25.283 --> 01:38:26.963
and journalists are experiencing increased

01:38:27.024 --> 01:38:27.543
harassment.

01:38:27.564 --> 01:38:28.404
Okay.

01:38:29.671 --> 01:38:30.631
So to me,

01:38:31.434 --> 01:38:32.835
for any sci-fi fans in the room,

01:38:33.336 --> 01:38:34.778
this reminds me of a few years ago

01:38:34.818 --> 01:38:36.539
when they decided to host the Hugo Awards

01:38:36.701 --> 01:38:37.261
in China.

01:38:38.042 --> 01:38:40.845
And one specific author who my wife really

01:38:40.886 --> 01:38:42.007
likes – I have her book actually,

01:38:42.028 --> 01:38:43.358
and I need to read it –

01:38:44.671 --> 01:38:46.032
I think it was the book Iron Widow.

01:38:46.351 --> 01:38:46.872
I could be wrong.

01:38:47.112 --> 01:38:48.073
I can't remember the author's name.

01:38:48.512 --> 01:38:48.893
I'll look it up.

01:38:49.453 --> 01:38:52.274
Um, but, uh, she was like shortlist,

01:38:52.295 --> 01:38:54.837
like everybody knew like this, this woman,

01:38:54.936 --> 01:38:56.216
actually, I may have their gender wrong.

01:38:56.237 --> 01:38:56.497
I'm sorry.

01:38:56.516 --> 01:38:57.618
This person, um,

01:38:57.738 --> 01:38:59.798
everybody knew that this person was like

01:38:59.958 --> 01:39:00.840
guaranteed, uh,

01:39:01.439 --> 01:39:05.923
to be at least nominated and did not

01:39:06.203 --> 01:39:07.524
so much as get a nomination.

01:39:07.966 --> 01:39:09.726
And then it turned out later that the

01:39:09.747 --> 01:39:11.708
government had pressured the Hugo Awards

01:39:12.029 --> 01:39:14.350
not to nominate this person or like pay

01:39:14.430 --> 01:39:16.212
any attention to this person because they

01:39:16.233 --> 01:39:18.094
were of Chinese descent and the government

01:39:18.134 --> 01:39:19.595
didn't like whatever their political

01:39:19.615 --> 01:39:20.896
positions were or something like that.

01:39:21.396 --> 01:39:22.898
And I remember when that happened,

01:39:22.997 --> 01:39:24.059
I remember I sat there and I'm like,

01:39:24.460 --> 01:39:26.201
so whose genius idea was it to host

01:39:26.220 --> 01:39:27.261
the Hugo Awards in China?

01:39:27.662 --> 01:39:29.162
Like if we knew this was a possibility,

01:39:29.444 --> 01:39:30.484
like not even this specifically,

01:39:30.524 --> 01:39:31.805
I'm sure they didn't know that

01:39:31.845 --> 01:39:33.266
specifically was going to happen until

01:39:33.287 --> 01:39:34.887
like a week before or something.

01:39:35.268 --> 01:39:35.929
But also like,

01:39:36.349 --> 01:39:39.511
why would you willingly choose to host a

01:39:39.551 --> 01:39:41.934
convention in a country that is

01:39:41.993 --> 01:39:44.595
notoriously critical of anything that

01:39:44.636 --> 01:39:45.837
casts it in a negative light?

01:39:46.898 --> 01:39:47.878
Just knowing that

01:39:48.889 --> 01:39:51.291
literature and sci-fi included is like one

01:39:51.310 --> 01:39:52.231
of those things where you,

01:39:52.412 --> 01:39:53.412
you kind of push the envelope.

01:39:53.432 --> 01:39:55.474
Sometimes you present new ideas that may

01:39:55.514 --> 01:39:56.395
not always be popular.

01:39:56.755 --> 01:39:57.735
And I just remember thinking, I'm like,

01:39:57.775 --> 01:39:58.436
why would you do that?

01:39:58.476 --> 01:39:58.596
Like,

01:39:58.636 --> 01:40:00.297
why would you even tempt fate like that?

01:40:00.719 --> 01:40:01.939
And this feels the exact same way to

01:40:01.979 --> 01:40:02.119
me.

01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:02.920
It's like you,

01:40:03.020 --> 01:40:04.362
you decided to host a human rights

01:40:04.381 --> 01:40:07.283
convention in a country where the

01:40:07.323 --> 01:40:09.085
government has currently imprisoned people

01:40:09.185 --> 01:40:10.046
for online speech,

01:40:10.065 --> 01:40:11.667
critical of the government journalists are

01:40:11.686 --> 01:40:13.368
experiencing increased harassment.

01:40:13.448 --> 01:40:14.569
Like, why would you do that?

01:40:14.590 --> 01:40:15.690
I don't know.

01:40:15.711 --> 01:40:17.372
That just blows my mind, but yeah.

01:40:17.931 --> 01:40:19.233
That's kind of my only thought is I,

01:40:19.332 --> 01:40:19.773
I don't, I don't,

01:40:19.872 --> 01:40:21.194
I don't like want to like victim blame

01:40:21.213 --> 01:40:22.354
anybody here, but like,

01:40:22.414 --> 01:40:23.694
I feel like the organizers should have

01:40:23.734 --> 01:40:25.055
known better than to do that.

01:40:25.095 --> 01:40:26.056
That's kind of my main thought.

01:40:27.578 --> 01:40:27.877
Yeah.

01:40:27.997 --> 01:40:28.318
I mean,

01:40:28.438 --> 01:40:29.958
that is one way of looking at it,

01:40:30.038 --> 01:40:31.079
but I think, you know,

01:40:31.100 --> 01:40:33.961
this could have been a good platform to

01:40:34.001 --> 01:40:35.582
discuss a lot of these issues in the

01:40:35.601 --> 01:40:36.323
country, right?

01:40:36.403 --> 01:40:38.024
Like, you know, there's obviously,

01:40:38.804 --> 01:40:40.944
I think we didn't really know,

01:40:41.164 --> 01:40:42.305
you don't really know what is going to

01:40:42.345 --> 01:40:42.685
happen.

01:40:43.226 --> 01:40:44.747
Uh, I think reading down to the,

01:40:45.188 --> 01:40:46.668
to the end of this, uh,

01:40:47.563 --> 01:40:49.326
of the article here from Tech Policy

01:40:49.345 --> 01:40:49.766
Press.

01:40:50.788 --> 01:40:52.712
China has significant leverage in Zambia,

01:40:52.733 --> 01:40:55.356
according to a database of Chinese foreign

01:40:55.417 --> 01:40:56.579
investments maintained

01:40:57.730 --> 01:40:59.893
by at the college of william and mary

01:40:59.932 --> 01:41:01.913
china donated thirty million dollars for

01:41:01.934 --> 01:41:04.355
the construction of the mulangashi

01:41:04.416 --> 01:41:05.957
international conference center where

01:41:06.016 --> 01:41:08.979
rights con was to take place it represents

01:41:09.038 --> 01:41:11.780
just one of hundreds of investments in

01:41:11.841 --> 01:41:13.782
zambian infrastructure totaling nearly

01:41:14.203 --> 01:41:16.344
thirteen billion over the past decade

01:41:16.384 --> 01:41:18.445
according to the william and mary

01:41:18.485 --> 01:41:22.167
researchers so i think this was less to

01:41:22.188 --> 01:41:25.511
do with uh this was more like a

01:41:25.591 --> 01:41:27.351
political thing right like they're

01:41:28.533 --> 01:41:30.432
I think just so you know,

01:41:30.453 --> 01:41:32.713
like the last conference was held in

01:41:32.753 --> 01:41:33.314
Taiwan.

01:41:33.873 --> 01:41:35.255
There was clearly people that were,

01:41:35.515 --> 01:41:40.275
you know, supportive of, you know,

01:41:40.296 --> 01:41:41.695
people's right to a free assembly,

01:41:41.735 --> 01:41:44.877
which isn't always guaranteed in China.

01:41:44.976 --> 01:41:48.177
So I think it kind of goes against

01:41:49.917 --> 01:41:50.819
the values there.

01:41:50.859 --> 01:41:52.298
And I think that's kind of the reason

01:41:52.319 --> 01:41:53.439
why this was cancelled.

01:41:54.460 --> 01:41:55.680
But I think, you know,

01:41:57.346 --> 01:41:59.707
I definitely see your argument that like,

01:41:59.787 --> 01:42:01.228
why would we host it there?

01:42:01.408 --> 01:42:02.689
Like if it's going to get,

01:42:02.788 --> 01:42:04.509
if there's a possibility that the Chinese

01:42:04.529 --> 01:42:05.849
government isn't going to like that,

01:42:06.569 --> 01:42:08.109
is it really a good idea to like

01:42:08.130 --> 01:42:09.810
do it in the backyard of them?

01:42:09.869 --> 01:42:11.551
Like, is that really like there?

01:42:12.110 --> 01:42:13.190
Is that really a great idea?

01:42:13.810 --> 01:42:14.011
I mean,

01:42:14.171 --> 01:42:15.412
I think it would have been interesting

01:42:15.452 --> 01:42:16.671
though, because like,

01:42:17.076 --> 01:42:17.296
You know,

01:42:17.315 --> 01:42:19.460
maybe it could have been a good time

01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:21.403
to discuss a lot of those issues,

01:42:21.502 --> 01:42:26.771
but I guess they overestimated the

01:42:26.811 --> 01:42:27.894
allowance of that to happen.

01:42:29.761 --> 01:42:31.921
Yeah, and that's a really good point.

01:42:31.962 --> 01:42:33.483
You do make a solid point where it's

01:42:33.502 --> 01:42:35.043
like, why not go...

01:42:36.744 --> 01:42:37.404
I grew up in the church,

01:42:37.425 --> 01:42:38.886
so I know a few Bible verses.

01:42:38.905 --> 01:42:40.966
And one of them is where they were

01:42:40.987 --> 01:42:42.448
criticizing Jesus for hanging out with

01:42:42.467 --> 01:42:42.787
sinners.

01:42:42.807 --> 01:42:43.547
And he's like, well, yeah,

01:42:43.587 --> 01:42:45.048
the healthy people don't need a doctor.

01:42:45.088 --> 01:42:46.850
So I kind of see that argument of

01:42:46.869 --> 01:42:47.250
like, yeah,

01:42:47.289 --> 01:42:48.751
why not go to the country where these

01:42:48.791 --> 01:42:49.230
are happening?

01:42:49.251 --> 01:42:51.231
And User Zero made a good point too.

01:42:51.912 --> 01:42:53.052
Is there any country where this stuff

01:42:53.132 --> 01:42:53.813
isn't happening?

01:42:53.853 --> 01:42:54.253
And I mean...

01:42:55.329 --> 01:42:56.150
objectively, yes,

01:42:56.190 --> 01:42:58.091
there's places that are much more open and

01:42:58.131 --> 01:43:00.134
free and accepting of that kind of stuff.

01:43:00.173 --> 01:43:01.314
But I hear your point.

01:43:01.354 --> 01:43:02.414
It's not exactly like, yeah,

01:43:02.435 --> 01:43:03.836
just throw a dart and anywhere it lands

01:43:03.877 --> 01:43:04.837
is good.

01:43:06.497 --> 01:43:07.979
The choices are relatively limited.

01:43:08.399 --> 01:43:10.320
So that's a fair argument.

01:43:11.561 --> 01:43:11.782
Yeah.

01:43:12.042 --> 01:43:16.765
I do think it's also important for people

01:43:16.826 --> 01:43:18.466
in the global South to have these

01:43:18.507 --> 01:43:20.408
conferences there as well, right?

01:43:20.448 --> 01:43:22.871
Because not everybody can

01:43:23.637 --> 01:43:25.579
afford to travel all the way to the

01:43:25.659 --> 01:43:28.822
united states or well i guess europe or

01:43:29.743 --> 01:43:32.585
any any sort of country that's in the

01:43:32.625 --> 01:43:34.806
west i guess or like the global north

01:43:35.207 --> 01:43:37.789
um so a lot and even a lot

01:43:37.810 --> 01:43:39.770
of those countries i would be i probably

01:43:39.791 --> 01:43:41.953
wouldn't travel there um so you know

01:43:42.012 --> 01:43:43.555
there's there's all sorts of things like

01:43:43.595 --> 01:43:47.358
that um but yeah this was just like

01:43:47.377 --> 01:43:48.779
an important little one that we wanted to

01:43:48.798 --> 01:43:52.462
cover um it's unfortunate but uh

01:43:53.212 --> 01:43:55.327
It is surprising that this was,

01:43:57.560 --> 01:44:00.101
it happened so like this seemed like it

01:44:00.141 --> 01:44:01.301
was going to go forward and then it

01:44:01.362 --> 01:44:02.323
suddenly was canceled,

01:44:02.363 --> 01:44:04.123
which I think if it had just been,

01:44:04.384 --> 01:44:06.605
if it had just been like immediately they,

01:44:06.966 --> 01:44:08.827
the Zambian government said, no,

01:44:08.846 --> 01:44:09.707
that would have been fine.

01:44:09.728 --> 01:44:11.389
But since it happened so close to the

01:44:11.448 --> 01:44:11.809
start,

01:44:11.849 --> 01:44:13.569
it was like kind of a big story.

01:44:13.949 --> 01:44:15.591
Um, at least on Marston,

01:44:15.650 --> 01:44:16.851
I saw a lot of people talking about

01:44:16.912 --> 01:44:17.011
it.

01:44:17.271 --> 01:44:18.993
Um, so yeah.

01:44:19.154 --> 01:44:19.434
Yeah.

01:44:19.453 --> 01:44:19.713
And, um,

01:44:19.833 --> 01:44:21.395
four Oh four wrote a couple articles about

01:44:21.435 --> 01:44:21.475
it.

01:44:21.494 --> 01:44:22.855
They actually just published another one

01:44:22.895 --> 01:44:24.976
right before we went live with like the

01:44:24.997 --> 01:44:25.658
latest update.

01:44:25.698 --> 01:44:25.837
So.

01:44:26.277 --> 01:44:26.497
Yeah.

01:44:26.877 --> 01:44:27.719
Oh, okay.

01:44:29.239 --> 01:44:29.701
Interesting.

01:44:29.780 --> 01:44:30.280
Was there any,

01:44:30.381 --> 01:44:32.002
did you notice there was anything to add

01:44:32.103 --> 01:44:32.283
or?

01:44:33.284 --> 01:44:34.386
I didn't really have a chance to read

01:44:34.426 --> 01:44:34.485
it,

01:44:34.506 --> 01:44:35.747
which is why I didn't include it in

01:44:35.766 --> 01:44:37.168
the links, but I'm sure it's good.

01:44:37.448 --> 01:44:37.930
It's, you know,

01:44:37.949 --> 01:44:39.070
four or four does great work.

01:44:39.150 --> 01:44:40.453
So.

01:44:40.512 --> 01:44:41.172
Yeah, cool.

01:44:41.413 --> 01:44:43.275
I guess go check that out then if

01:44:43.296 --> 01:44:44.676
you're interested in learning more about

01:44:44.697 --> 01:44:45.137
this story.

01:44:46.811 --> 01:44:48.212
Also, just in case anyone is curious,

01:44:48.273 --> 01:44:49.314
it's Zhiran.

01:44:49.993 --> 01:44:51.314
I'm totally going to pronounce this wrong.

01:44:51.494 --> 01:44:52.496
Zhiran Jiao.

01:44:52.996 --> 01:44:53.655
I don't know.

01:44:53.695 --> 01:44:54.756
The book is called Iron Widow.

01:44:54.777 --> 01:44:56.257
But yeah, in twenty twenty two,

01:44:56.917 --> 01:44:58.338
twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three,

01:44:58.399 --> 01:45:00.079
they were a finalist for astounding award

01:45:00.100 --> 01:45:00.940
for best new writer.

01:45:00.961 --> 01:45:02.082
They received enough votes to be a

01:45:02.122 --> 01:45:02.542
finalist,

01:45:02.841 --> 01:45:04.283
but were declared ineligible and removed

01:45:04.302 --> 01:45:04.842
from the ballot.

01:45:05.123 --> 01:45:06.344
It later emerged that this was due to

01:45:06.384 --> 01:45:07.685
self-censorship by the Hugo Award

01:45:07.704 --> 01:45:08.386
administrators,

01:45:08.826 --> 01:45:10.106
which was held in China in order to

01:45:10.146 --> 01:45:11.106
appease the Chinese government.

01:45:11.367 --> 01:45:14.349
So, yay.

01:45:14.368 --> 01:45:15.149
This kind of stuff happens.

01:45:16.979 --> 01:45:19.042
Anyways,

01:45:19.363 --> 01:45:20.743
just in case anyone else was curious for

01:45:20.764 --> 01:45:24.908
me to wrap that earlier thing up.

01:45:26.470 --> 01:45:27.152
So I think in a minute,

01:45:27.252 --> 01:45:28.592
we're going to start taking viewer

01:45:28.632 --> 01:45:29.113
questions.

01:45:29.173 --> 01:45:31.716
I know we had somebody leave a question

01:45:31.817 --> 01:45:32.256
earlier,

01:45:32.497 --> 01:45:34.100
and we'll definitely go back to check that

01:45:34.180 --> 01:45:34.279
out.

01:45:34.819 --> 01:45:36.081
If you're holding on to any questions,

01:45:36.121 --> 01:45:37.060
go ahead and start leaving them in the

01:45:37.121 --> 01:45:37.582
chat.

01:45:38.202 --> 01:45:39.082
But for now,

01:45:39.202 --> 01:45:43.265
we're going to head over to our community

01:45:43.305 --> 01:45:45.485
forum where there is always a lot of

01:45:45.525 --> 01:45:45.985
activity.

01:45:46.386 --> 01:45:46.786
This week,

01:45:47.447 --> 01:45:48.527
there was a lot of activity when I

01:45:48.587 --> 01:45:52.248
sorted by the latest chats this week.

01:45:52.710 --> 01:45:53.630
Busy week in the forum.

01:45:53.689 --> 01:45:55.690
But specifically,

01:45:56.190 --> 01:45:57.591
I think we were going to focus on

01:45:57.712 --> 01:46:00.713
a post here that...

01:46:02.675 --> 01:46:04.615
again, was almost a finalist for the news.

01:46:04.676 --> 01:46:04.916
It's just,

01:46:04.935 --> 01:46:06.195
there's so much happening this week.

01:46:06.657 --> 01:46:08.657
But there's a rumor that Signal is working

01:46:08.716 --> 01:46:11.118
on a standalone version of a desktop app

01:46:11.217 --> 01:46:13.698
that does not require a mobile phone.

01:46:14.639 --> 01:46:15.259
Now, to be clear,

01:46:15.420 --> 01:46:16.840
it will still require a phone number.

01:46:17.399 --> 01:46:18.280
That's not going away.

01:46:19.180 --> 01:46:21.801
And I know that's a very controversial

01:46:23.301 --> 01:46:27.144
requirement, but let's see here.

01:46:27.203 --> 01:46:27.823
So there's,

01:46:27.844 --> 01:46:29.203
I'm gonna switch over and show this

01:46:29.304 --> 01:46:30.784
article on screen real quick.

01:46:31.871 --> 01:46:32.091
Oh,

01:46:32.150 --> 01:46:33.332
if I can remember to share my screen.

01:46:35.271 --> 01:46:35.631
But yeah,

01:46:35.652 --> 01:46:37.832
somebody spotted this in one of the latest

01:46:37.972 --> 01:46:40.734
Git commits on GitHub.

01:46:41.094 --> 01:46:43.454
There we go.

01:46:43.614 --> 01:46:45.095
Oh, come on.

01:46:45.114 --> 01:46:46.536
This is a very difficult program to work

01:46:46.555 --> 01:46:46.876
sometimes.

01:46:46.895 --> 01:46:47.235
There we go.

01:46:48.317 --> 01:46:49.737
So yeah, going back to the top,

01:46:49.777 --> 01:46:51.757
this comes from a website called About

01:46:51.818 --> 01:46:52.118
Signal.

01:46:53.496 --> 01:46:55.537
And it says that it was on the

01:46:55.577 --> 01:46:58.819
latest Signal Desktop commit history and

01:46:59.059 --> 01:47:00.279
makes several improvements to the

01:47:00.319 --> 01:47:01.380
registration flow.

01:47:01.439 --> 01:47:02.860
The feature has not been officially

01:47:02.881 --> 01:47:03.280
announced,

01:47:03.341 --> 01:47:04.702
but since we saw it in the commit

01:47:04.742 --> 01:47:05.181
history,

01:47:05.603 --> 01:47:06.662
I'm not going to say it's official,

01:47:06.682 --> 01:47:07.644
but it's kind of one of those, like,

01:47:07.663 --> 01:47:07.823
you know,

01:47:07.844 --> 01:47:09.345
there's always rumors going around, but...

01:47:10.265 --> 01:47:11.305
I think since we, again,

01:47:11.345 --> 01:47:12.546
since we see some evidence of this in

01:47:12.565 --> 01:47:14.065
the gate commits, it's like, okay, let's,

01:47:14.365 --> 01:47:14.405
uh,

01:47:14.445 --> 01:47:16.027
let's maybe pay attention to this a little

01:47:16.046 --> 01:47:16.747
bit more than usual.

01:47:17.407 --> 01:47:18.387
And it says that, uh,

01:47:18.467 --> 01:47:19.988
users may soon no longer be forced to

01:47:20.047 --> 01:47:22.069
use a smartphone such as Android or iOS.

01:47:22.689 --> 01:47:23.429
And, uh,

01:47:23.509 --> 01:47:25.050
instead you will be able to sign up

01:47:25.229 --> 01:47:27.689
on signal desktop and you can use just

01:47:27.710 --> 01:47:29.650
a regular mobile number or a landline,

01:47:29.671 --> 01:47:31.532
which includes basic mobile phones or dumb

01:47:31.572 --> 01:47:31.952
phones.

01:47:32.851 --> 01:47:33.091
Um,

01:47:33.112 --> 01:47:38.033
which I think is kind of new and

01:47:38.213 --> 01:47:38.474
old.

01:47:39.054 --> 01:47:39.213
Um,

01:47:40.796 --> 01:47:43.337
In the sense that I think Joseph Cox

01:47:43.577 --> 01:47:45.016
or somebody wrote a blog post one time

01:47:45.037 --> 01:47:46.377
about how they managed to sign up for

01:47:46.438 --> 01:47:48.478
Signal without using a smartphone.

01:47:48.917 --> 01:47:50.798
And basically they found one of the last

01:47:51.259 --> 01:47:54.020
pay phones in America and had Signal call

01:47:54.060 --> 01:47:57.900
them and deliver a sign-up code over the

01:47:57.940 --> 01:47:58.240
phone.

01:47:58.661 --> 01:47:59.640
I don't think it was a person from

01:47:59.701 --> 01:47:59.940
Signal,

01:47:59.961 --> 01:48:00.981
but I think this was a feature they

01:48:01.101 --> 01:48:01.721
used to offer.

01:48:02.082 --> 01:48:04.762
So it seems like it's kind of coming

01:48:04.783 --> 01:48:05.203
back now.

01:48:06.623 --> 01:48:07.585
And then I think they go on to

01:48:07.604 --> 01:48:09.046
talk about some of the other updates

01:48:09.105 --> 01:48:09.907
coming into that app.

01:48:10.067 --> 01:48:12.347
But yeah, I mean,

01:48:12.587 --> 01:48:14.048
that's kind of the exciting part that I

01:48:14.069 --> 01:48:15.550
think we're super interested in.

01:48:15.569 --> 01:48:18.471
Did you have any thoughts on this one,

01:48:18.511 --> 01:48:18.773
Jordan?

01:48:18.813 --> 01:48:19.912
I mean, I'm excited about it.

01:48:20.974 --> 01:48:23.194
I know the phone number requirement is

01:48:23.275 --> 01:48:24.615
very controversial in general,

01:48:24.636 --> 01:48:26.217
but I think anything we can do to

01:48:26.278 --> 01:48:27.698
lower that barrier to entry and give

01:48:27.719 --> 01:48:33.641
people more access to secure

01:48:33.662 --> 01:48:34.903
communication, I think is good.

01:48:35.423 --> 01:48:35.804
What do you think?

01:48:37.492 --> 01:48:37.771
Yeah,

01:48:37.912 --> 01:48:39.974
I think like a lot of times I

01:48:40.014 --> 01:48:43.296
think having a mobile phone requirement is

01:48:43.315 --> 01:48:44.155
a bit frustrating.

01:48:44.237 --> 01:48:45.837
Like, for instance,

01:48:46.018 --> 01:48:47.618
I've got two Signal accounts.

01:48:47.639 --> 01:48:48.779
Like I have one that I use for

01:48:48.819 --> 01:48:51.220
work and then another one that I use

01:48:51.240 --> 01:48:52.362
for personal stuff.

01:48:52.601 --> 01:48:54.063
And now I have to have a second

01:48:54.103 --> 01:48:56.265
phone that just has to be on to

01:48:56.524 --> 01:48:56.744
like...

01:48:57.045 --> 01:48:58.287
has to have the account on it.

01:48:58.847 --> 01:49:00.631
So it is kind of annoying that you

01:49:00.650 --> 01:49:01.351
have to have like a,

01:49:02.213 --> 01:49:03.735
or I guess if you had an Android,

01:49:03.756 --> 01:49:05.559
you could maybe use a different profile.

01:49:05.819 --> 01:49:08.724
But it's kind of frustrating that that's

01:49:08.765 --> 01:49:10.167
been a requirement when, you know,

01:49:11.778 --> 01:49:12.859
I think you could do that with an

01:49:13.019 --> 01:49:13.378
iPad.

01:49:13.559 --> 01:49:13.698
Yeah.

01:49:13.719 --> 01:49:14.720
You could do that with an iPad.

01:49:14.739 --> 01:49:17.341
You could have an iPad as your main

01:49:17.462 --> 01:49:18.141
device.

01:49:18.523 --> 01:49:18.863
Um,

01:49:18.903 --> 01:49:20.764
so it kind of makes sense that they

01:49:20.783 --> 01:49:22.064
would allow this on desktop,

01:49:22.164 --> 01:49:25.466
but it's kind of been an ongoing thing.

01:49:26.047 --> 01:49:26.087
Um,

01:49:26.127 --> 01:49:27.207
and I think when it comes to these

01:49:27.247 --> 01:49:28.989
like source code leaks as well,

01:49:29.050 --> 01:49:32.612
like we saw like, Oh, username, uh,

01:49:32.992 --> 01:49:33.893
username support.

01:49:34.436 --> 01:49:36.158
leaked through the same way, right?

01:49:36.179 --> 01:49:37.619
We were like looking at the source code

01:49:37.659 --> 01:49:38.980
and we saw, oh,

01:49:39.121 --> 01:49:40.842
there's like this mention of usernames in

01:49:40.863 --> 01:49:41.563
the source code,

01:49:41.603 --> 01:49:42.604
but they're not added yet.

01:49:42.684 --> 01:49:42.944
So,

01:49:43.604 --> 01:49:45.146
and we did end up getting that feature

01:49:45.287 --> 01:49:49.109
eventually kind of took a while, um,

01:49:49.170 --> 01:49:49.770
which is.

01:49:51.640 --> 01:49:53.143
kind of the usual with Signal.

01:49:53.523 --> 01:49:55.685
I kind of appreciate Signal's slower

01:49:55.706 --> 01:49:56.766
rollout of features though.

01:49:57.006 --> 01:49:58.108
Whereas, you know,

01:49:58.127 --> 01:50:01.112
I feel like a lot of projects or

01:50:02.172 --> 01:50:05.336
I guess products are sort of taking the

01:50:06.157 --> 01:50:08.238
move fast and break things approach,

01:50:08.319 --> 01:50:08.579
which

01:50:09.426 --> 01:50:10.827
isn't super great, uh,

01:50:10.867 --> 01:50:13.029
from a stability standpoint.

01:50:13.909 --> 01:50:14.710
Um, but yeah,

01:50:14.729 --> 01:50:17.412
I'm kind of excited to just be able

01:50:17.432 --> 01:50:19.835
to use this instead of having to have

01:50:19.895 --> 01:50:21.155
a second phone.

01:50:21.796 --> 01:50:23.157
Um, because yeah,

01:50:23.216 --> 01:50:25.038
it's kind of been an ongoing issue.

01:50:25.158 --> 01:50:26.859
I know that a lot of people are

01:50:26.880 --> 01:50:28.121
going to like this, uh,

01:50:28.220 --> 01:50:30.143
once it finally releases, if it releases,

01:50:30.203 --> 01:50:33.645
which all signs point towards yes,

01:50:33.805 --> 01:50:36.387
but there's always a possibility of it,

01:50:36.849 --> 01:50:37.429
uh, not coming.

01:50:38.944 --> 01:50:40.385
Okay, so someone in the chat said,

01:50:40.944 --> 01:50:42.725
is X the only way to watch the

01:50:42.765 --> 01:50:43.125
stream?

01:50:43.225 --> 01:50:46.845
It feels uncomfortable.

01:50:46.926 --> 01:50:47.747
Yeah, so I think,

01:50:47.987 --> 01:50:49.987
I'm not exactly sure because I don't have

01:50:50.766 --> 01:50:51.667
a Twitter account.

01:50:52.467 --> 01:50:54.167
I don't know what it looks like,

01:50:54.268 --> 01:50:57.649
but you can also watch this on StreamYard,

01:50:57.708 --> 01:51:01.850
which is basically a platform agnostic

01:51:01.911 --> 01:51:03.791
way.

01:51:03.810 --> 01:51:05.311
You can also watch this on YouTube.

01:51:05.351 --> 01:51:06.452
You can watch this on

01:51:07.798 --> 01:51:09.663
TikTok, wouldn't recommend it,

01:51:11.087 --> 01:51:11.630
but you can.

01:51:11.649 --> 01:51:11.770
Twitch.

01:51:12.011 --> 01:51:14.597
Twitch, Kik, LinkedIn.

01:51:17.886 --> 01:51:19.146
Yeah, all those platforms.

01:51:19.226 --> 01:51:21.667
So it's across all those if you want

01:51:21.688 --> 01:51:22.288
to switch.

01:51:23.288 --> 01:51:25.069
But if you want to find our YouTube

01:51:25.088 --> 01:51:26.689
channel, it's just Privacy Guides.

01:51:27.029 --> 01:51:29.530
It's an easy way to find that.

01:51:29.551 --> 01:51:32.131
It's whatever platform you prefer.

01:51:32.212 --> 01:51:34.712
We just find that there's at least some,

01:51:35.533 --> 01:51:37.713
we get quite a decent amount of traction

01:51:37.854 --> 01:51:38.474
on Twitter.

01:51:38.554 --> 01:51:40.975
So that's why we broadcast there.

01:51:40.994 --> 01:51:43.336
It's important to get this message out to

01:51:43.376 --> 01:51:44.496
as many people as possible.

01:51:48.833 --> 01:51:49.134
Cool.

01:51:49.154 --> 01:51:49.395
Yeah.

01:51:49.414 --> 01:51:49.534
Sorry.

01:51:49.555 --> 01:51:50.615
I'm going through some of the comments

01:51:50.636 --> 01:51:50.775
here.

01:51:50.815 --> 01:51:51.817
Cause some people were like, Oh,

01:51:51.856 --> 01:51:53.318
I wish it worked with voice over IP.

01:51:53.337 --> 01:51:54.640
And I'm like, Hey, did they change that?

01:51:54.659 --> 01:51:56.320
But then further down, people were like,

01:51:56.402 --> 01:51:56.881
yeah, it does.

01:51:56.981 --> 01:51:57.943
Okay.

01:51:57.962 --> 01:51:58.783
So yeah, it does.

01:51:58.804 --> 01:52:01.046
It definitely does.

01:52:01.086 --> 01:52:01.407
Yeah.

01:52:01.426 --> 01:52:02.448
I was like, did they change that?

01:52:02.467 --> 01:52:03.809
Cause I definitely signed up with voice

01:52:03.868 --> 01:52:06.652
over IP, but, um, yeah.

01:52:06.752 --> 01:52:06.851
And,

01:52:06.872 --> 01:52:08.594
and real quick on the topic of other

01:52:08.613 --> 01:52:09.373
places to watch,

01:52:09.434 --> 01:52:11.376
if you go to privacyguides.org slash live

01:52:11.416 --> 01:52:12.578
streams, I think, um,

01:52:13.682 --> 01:52:15.404
I think that'll take you, well,

01:52:15.423 --> 01:52:16.725
it'll take you to the latest newsletter

01:52:16.744 --> 01:52:17.905
and that'll take you to the, uh, the,

01:52:18.206 --> 01:52:19.707
the stream yard link.

01:52:20.268 --> 01:52:23.289
Um, the forum, we usually pin, um,

01:52:23.369 --> 01:52:24.551
once we pick the headline story,

01:52:24.610 --> 01:52:26.631
we pin a post that has all the

01:52:26.671 --> 01:52:28.873
other places that we stream for sure.

01:52:28.913 --> 01:52:31.435
So, Oh,

01:52:31.456 --> 01:52:32.516
somebody went and posted them all here.

01:52:32.537 --> 01:52:34.637
So cool.

01:52:34.677 --> 01:52:35.198
Yeah.

01:52:35.219 --> 01:52:35.698
Probably Jordan.

01:52:37.386 --> 01:52:38.787
That was me.

01:52:38.847 --> 01:52:40.609
I think it's time to move on to

01:52:40.810 --> 01:52:42.371
viewer questions.

01:52:44.332 --> 01:52:46.454
I have the forum post up here.

01:52:46.494 --> 01:52:47.636
Let me take a look.

01:52:50.056 --> 01:52:50.737
Not really a question,

01:52:50.756 --> 01:52:52.939
but somebody on the forum mentioned when

01:52:52.958 --> 01:52:55.000
we posted the headline story, which is,

01:52:55.039 --> 01:52:55.279
you know,

01:52:55.359 --> 01:52:56.820
is Ubuntu becoming the new Windows?

01:52:57.341 --> 01:52:58.582
They said, speaking of Ubuntu,

01:52:58.601 --> 01:53:00.182
they are the first Linux OS option to

01:53:00.203 --> 01:53:02.224
come preloaded onto framework laptops.

01:53:02.444 --> 01:53:05.185
So if you are interested in framework or

01:53:05.286 --> 01:53:06.426
you are a framework user,

01:53:07.106 --> 01:53:09.368
definitely be aware of that next time you

01:53:09.389 --> 01:53:09.769
go to buy one.

01:53:14.162 --> 01:53:15.622
I'm checking through here to see any

01:53:15.703 --> 01:53:20.345
other... Oh, somebody posted here.

01:53:20.365 --> 01:53:20.605
They said,

01:53:20.626 --> 01:53:21.466
I don't know if this will still be

01:53:21.506 --> 01:53:22.587
relevant by the time the live stream

01:53:22.608 --> 01:53:22.868
happens,

01:53:22.887 --> 01:53:24.309
but at the time of posting this comment,

01:53:24.628 --> 01:53:26.409
much if not all of Ubuntu and Canonical's

01:53:26.470 --> 01:53:29.011
infrastructure appears to be down via a

01:53:29.032 --> 01:53:29.773
DDoS attack.

01:53:29.813 --> 01:53:30.153
Yes,

01:53:30.972 --> 01:53:32.474
I discovered that this morning when I went

01:53:32.493 --> 01:53:32.713
to do...

01:53:32.755 --> 01:53:34.956
So I have automatic updates on all my

01:53:34.996 --> 01:53:35.395
servers,

01:53:35.976 --> 01:53:38.278
but Fridays or weekends are kind of when

01:53:38.337 --> 01:53:40.359
I sit down to manually make sure I

01:53:40.380 --> 01:53:41.399
didn't miss any updates,

01:53:42.301 --> 01:53:43.662
run my backups and stuff like that.

01:53:44.242 --> 01:53:45.143
I know I shouldn't do it manually.

01:53:45.182 --> 01:53:46.104
I haven't had time to get around to

01:53:46.123 --> 01:53:46.845
making them automated,

01:53:46.904 --> 01:53:49.167
but I had that issue too.

01:53:49.186 --> 01:53:51.809
Cause like all my servers were like not

01:53:51.849 --> 01:53:52.289
hitting.

01:53:52.909 --> 01:53:54.212
And then on cubes,

01:53:54.252 --> 01:53:55.712
I went to do snap refresh and I

01:53:55.733 --> 01:53:56.953
couldn't connect to the snap store.

01:53:57.694 --> 01:53:59.296
And I literally posted in the group chat.

01:53:59.315 --> 01:54:01.658
I was like, is FOSS broken today?

01:54:01.698 --> 01:54:02.739
Like what's happening?

01:54:02.800 --> 01:54:03.000
Yeah.

01:54:03.559 --> 01:54:05.039
And then like immediately after I asked

01:54:05.060 --> 01:54:06.761
that I opened up my next cloud with

01:54:06.801 --> 01:54:07.841
my RSS feeder.

01:54:07.981 --> 01:54:08.662
And as I saw,

01:54:08.703 --> 01:54:11.064
like Ubuntu has been having like a DDoS

01:54:11.083 --> 01:54:12.085
attack for the last like,

01:54:12.125 --> 01:54:12.645
hours or whatever.

01:54:12.666 --> 01:54:15.247
And I'm just like, ah, okay.

01:54:15.447 --> 01:54:16.047
That explains it.

01:54:16.528 --> 01:54:19.449
So need to read more often.

01:54:20.411 --> 01:54:20.831
Definitely.

01:54:20.951 --> 01:54:21.771
There's definitely been,

01:54:21.931 --> 01:54:23.653
it's been causing quite a lot of issues,

01:54:23.813 --> 01:54:24.173
I think,

01:54:24.354 --> 01:54:27.336
but I think one awesome thing about like,

01:54:27.836 --> 01:54:29.596
at least when it comes to the apps,

01:54:29.938 --> 01:54:30.137
like,

01:54:30.717 --> 01:54:32.198
and when we talk about Linux package

01:54:32.219 --> 01:54:33.119
managers is, you know,

01:54:33.564 --> 01:54:34.465
they have mirrors.

01:54:34.505 --> 01:54:35.345
So, you know,

01:54:35.706 --> 01:54:38.448
I personally don't use the official like

01:54:38.667 --> 01:54:39.108
repos.

01:54:39.148 --> 01:54:40.969
Like I would prefer a local one, right?

01:54:40.988 --> 01:54:43.091
You can, you can do that instead.

01:54:43.131 --> 01:54:44.511
You can still get updates that way.

01:54:44.931 --> 01:54:47.354
You could even set up your own, uh,

01:54:47.793 --> 01:54:48.875
local, uh,

01:54:48.994 --> 01:54:51.396
mirror on your own server in your home.

01:54:51.938 --> 01:54:55.239
Uh, if you're, if you're nerdy like that.

01:54:55.619 --> 01:54:56.640
Um, but yeah,

01:54:58.345 --> 01:55:00.185
Yeah, it is kind of a random,

01:55:00.627 --> 01:55:01.867
unfortunate thing, the story.

01:55:02.228 --> 01:55:03.667
I think people kind of got a little

01:55:03.688 --> 01:55:05.789
bit confused by the title.

01:55:05.890 --> 01:55:07.291
I was kind of not really sure what

01:55:07.331 --> 01:55:11.212
to put as the title to give away

01:55:11.252 --> 01:55:12.154
the entire thing.

01:55:13.654 --> 01:55:14.255
I thought it was good.

01:55:14.354 --> 01:55:14.796
I liked it.

01:55:15.560 --> 01:55:18.204
But yeah, on that note, in the thread,

01:55:18.244 --> 01:55:19.246
I thought it was actually kind of cool.

01:55:19.286 --> 01:55:21.088
People started talking about what distros

01:55:21.128 --> 01:55:22.150
they prefer,

01:55:22.412 --> 01:55:24.014
and a lot of people talked about gaming.

01:55:24.314 --> 01:55:25.697
A lot of people said they like to

01:55:25.737 --> 01:55:26.478
game on Linux.

01:55:26.559 --> 01:55:29.063
So if you're a gamer, I'm told...

01:55:30.317 --> 01:55:32.498
um i'm told that gaming has come really

01:55:32.559 --> 01:55:34.619
really far on linux and is kind of

01:55:34.840 --> 01:55:38.141
almost at the point where like unless

01:55:38.162 --> 01:55:39.923
you're like a pro gamer or like there's

01:55:39.984 --> 01:55:42.005
certain uh like i know a lot of

01:55:42.045 --> 01:55:43.985
uh the anti-cheat games won't work very

01:55:44.025 --> 01:55:45.887
well but if you're just like a casual

01:55:45.908 --> 01:55:48.128
gamer um definitely look into linux

01:55:48.149 --> 01:55:49.649
because i've heard it's really come a long

01:55:49.689 --> 01:55:51.511
way and it's a lot more gaming friendly

01:55:51.530 --> 01:55:52.612
than it used to be and it's almost

01:55:52.631 --> 01:55:53.712
a one-to-one so

01:55:55.532 --> 01:55:55.931
Yeah,

01:55:56.072 --> 01:55:57.193
it's really frustrating with the

01:55:57.273 --> 01:55:58.314
anti-cheat stuff,

01:55:58.514 --> 01:55:59.795
and it doesn't really seem like the

01:55:59.854 --> 01:56:01.515
industry is moving in the right direction.

01:56:02.617 --> 01:56:03.237
If you remember,

01:56:04.297 --> 01:56:08.961
Apex Legends did allow Linux Easy

01:56:09.060 --> 01:56:10.841
Anti-Cheat to work on Linux,

01:56:11.061 --> 01:56:11.262
and

01:56:12.511 --> 01:56:13.953
they eventually just threw the towel in.

01:56:13.972 --> 01:56:14.313
They said,

01:56:14.372 --> 01:56:15.773
we've had too many people cheating.

01:56:16.292 --> 01:56:17.814
So we're blocking Linux.

01:56:19.114 --> 01:56:19.614
And that was it.

01:56:19.635 --> 01:56:20.914
You can't play it on Linux anymore,

01:56:20.954 --> 01:56:23.916
which is really unfortunate because,

01:56:23.956 --> 01:56:26.176
you know, I guess, you know,

01:56:26.237 --> 01:56:28.278
games have got to balance the player

01:56:28.318 --> 01:56:30.538
experience with that sort of stuff.

01:56:32.739 --> 01:56:35.220
So I have seen NVIDIA performance is bad

01:56:35.280 --> 01:56:35.780
compared to

01:56:36.350 --> 01:56:39.132
AMD, that's what Lusso One said.

01:56:40.354 --> 01:56:40.654
I mean,

01:56:41.493 --> 01:56:44.555
I would say Nvidia cards are generally

01:56:44.595 --> 01:56:45.237
more powerful,

01:56:45.337 --> 01:56:47.658
but there's a bunch of issues with drivers

01:56:48.359 --> 01:56:48.838
in Linux,

01:56:48.899 --> 01:56:51.279
which is a whole nother can of worms,

01:56:51.319 --> 01:56:52.881
which you probably won't have as much of

01:56:52.921 --> 01:56:54.481
an issue with if you're using an AMD

01:56:54.502 --> 01:56:54.842
GPU.

01:56:55.842 --> 01:56:58.465
um because basically i have to install

01:56:58.484 --> 01:57:01.407
proprietary drivers um i think it's been

01:57:01.886 --> 01:57:04.088
remedied somewhat now that we do have like

01:57:04.208 --> 01:57:05.909
open source kernel drivers but there's

01:57:05.930 --> 01:57:09.493
still a proprietary part to it which is

01:57:09.733 --> 01:57:11.873
another you know it's another barrier to

01:57:12.413 --> 01:57:13.996
getting people to switch because it's like

01:57:14.155 --> 01:57:15.856
oh why isn't my graphics card working

01:57:15.877 --> 01:57:17.457
correctly it's because you didn't install

01:57:17.497 --> 01:57:19.599
the drivers which is a whole process right

01:57:20.020 --> 01:57:20.140
um

01:57:21.569 --> 01:57:26.292
So I think that's also another issue,

01:57:26.393 --> 01:57:30.416
I guess, that NVIDIA causes.

01:57:30.435 --> 01:57:31.917
This is not an official recommendation

01:57:31.957 --> 01:57:32.818
from Privacy Guides.

01:57:32.898 --> 01:57:34.918
But if you are interested in gaming on

01:57:34.958 --> 01:57:35.260
Linux,

01:57:35.439 --> 01:57:37.201
I highly recommend The Linux Experiment.

01:57:37.862 --> 01:57:39.582
I listen to his weekly podcast.

01:57:40.443 --> 01:57:42.465
And he focuses mostly on open source

01:57:42.484 --> 01:57:42.645
stuff.

01:57:42.704 --> 01:57:43.204
Every once in a while,

01:57:43.225 --> 01:57:44.305
there's some privacy overlap.

01:57:44.345 --> 01:57:45.127
But for the most part,

01:57:45.167 --> 01:57:46.908
he talks about open source specifically.

01:57:47.528 --> 01:57:48.969
And at the end of each episode,

01:57:49.009 --> 01:57:50.770
he specifically talks about gaming news.

01:57:51.470 --> 01:57:53.552
And he digs into like the drivers and

01:57:54.474 --> 01:57:56.275
there's this new driver being released and

01:57:56.296 --> 01:57:57.976
this one versus this proprietary one and

01:57:57.997 --> 01:57:58.738
the benchmarks.

01:57:58.797 --> 01:57:59.979
And so, I mean,

01:57:59.998 --> 01:58:00.960
if you're really into that stuff,

01:58:01.039 --> 01:58:02.201
I would say definitely check him out.

01:58:02.240 --> 01:58:03.742
He's a really good source of information

01:58:03.782 --> 01:58:06.265
for that, in my opinion.

01:58:06.505 --> 01:58:06.725
Yeah,

01:58:06.904 --> 01:58:08.886
I think Linux gaming is like we saw

01:58:08.907 --> 01:58:12.831
like even recently that like Linux is like

01:58:12.890 --> 01:58:15.073
cracking five percent on the Steam

01:58:15.472 --> 01:58:17.194
hardware survey, which is.

01:58:18.524 --> 01:58:21.126
quite substantial like when we talk about

01:58:21.185 --> 01:58:23.627
the amount of users on their desktop it's

01:58:23.787 --> 01:58:26.369
it's a lot of people i think it's

01:58:26.449 --> 01:58:28.051
largely driven by the steam deck because

01:58:28.091 --> 01:58:29.311
the steam deck i believe is based on

01:58:29.432 --> 01:58:33.775
arch um but i mean it's super user

01:58:33.796 --> 01:58:35.277
friendly my wife has one she loves it

01:58:35.858 --> 01:58:37.378
she put brave on it so she can

01:58:37.599 --> 01:58:38.699
use it like a desktop now if she

01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:41.341
wants to but yeah it's uh

01:58:42.440 --> 01:58:43.501
I think I'm going to get one of

01:58:43.521 --> 01:58:43.841
those.

01:58:44.101 --> 01:58:45.322
I've got a Nintendo Switch,

01:58:45.362 --> 01:58:47.222
but I'm so done with Nintendo.

01:58:47.323 --> 01:58:48.023
Oh my goodness.

01:58:48.344 --> 01:58:52.204
I think I can give up some Nintendo

01:58:52.324 --> 01:58:54.805
first party games and switch to something

01:58:54.867 --> 01:58:55.806
that's a little bit better.

01:58:57.761 --> 01:58:58.582
I'm very casual,

01:58:58.682 --> 01:59:00.625
so I mostly stick to PC games,

01:59:00.685 --> 01:59:01.805
especially because then I can take them

01:59:01.826 --> 01:59:02.707
with me when I travel,

01:59:02.747 --> 01:59:05.489
but I do have my wife's...

01:59:06.211 --> 01:59:08.233
So my wife bought a Switch Lite back

01:59:08.252 --> 01:59:09.154
when they first came out,

01:59:09.994 --> 01:59:11.537
and then years later,

01:59:11.596 --> 01:59:13.338
she decided that she wanted to start

01:59:13.399 --> 01:59:14.100
streaming Switch,

01:59:14.140 --> 01:59:16.202
so we upgraded to an actual proper Switch,

01:59:16.641 --> 01:59:16.862
and

01:59:17.582 --> 01:59:19.264
i like inherited the hand-me-down switch

01:59:19.304 --> 01:59:20.805
light so technically i have a switch light

01:59:21.305 --> 01:59:22.506
i think i have like star wars knights

01:59:22.525 --> 01:59:24.087
the old republic is the only game i

01:59:24.146 --> 01:59:26.828
bought for it so far because i just

01:59:26.908 --> 01:59:27.889
you know a lot of the time i'm

01:59:27.929 --> 01:59:30.310
either at this point when i do have

01:59:30.369 --> 01:59:31.831
downtime i'm trying to get caught up on

01:59:31.850 --> 01:59:33.612
like tv shows and movies and stuff so

01:59:33.671 --> 01:59:36.134
like i just i think i just finally

01:59:36.154 --> 01:59:37.514
watched the latest season of wednesday

01:59:37.573 --> 01:59:40.136
like that's how backlogged i am on stuff

01:59:40.155 --> 01:59:40.256
but

01:59:40.728 --> 01:59:41.408
Oh, geez.

01:59:41.469 --> 01:59:41.948
Yeah.

01:59:41.969 --> 01:59:42.609
I'm backlogged.

01:59:42.770 --> 01:59:44.931
I'm backlogged on video games and I'm also

01:59:44.992 --> 01:59:46.354
backlogged on TV shows,

01:59:46.394 --> 01:59:47.774
like obscenely backlogged.

01:59:47.814 --> 01:59:49.636
I've got so many things to get through.

01:59:49.856 --> 01:59:51.798
So I am going to make time for

01:59:51.859 --> 01:59:52.340
silo though.

01:59:52.699 --> 01:59:55.162
I'm so excited for that, but yeah,

01:59:56.774 --> 01:59:57.735
Anyways,

01:59:57.756 --> 01:59:58.997
getting back to questions that people are

01:59:59.056 --> 01:59:59.317
asking.

01:59:59.976 --> 02:00:01.337
Nobody's asking about silos, sadly.

02:00:01.358 --> 02:00:03.119
So Lucas said,

02:00:03.180 --> 02:00:04.440
what's your view on sharing personal

02:00:04.461 --> 02:00:05.680
information with companies when applying

02:00:05.702 --> 02:00:06.082
for jobs,

02:00:06.141 --> 02:00:07.443
knowing that third parties are building a

02:00:07.462 --> 02:00:08.363
database for marketing?

02:00:09.524 --> 02:00:10.284
I mean, unfortunately,

02:00:10.305 --> 02:00:11.326
I think personal opinion,

02:00:11.365 --> 02:00:12.225
I think this is just kind of one

02:00:12.265 --> 02:00:14.268
of those things where we don't have a

02:00:14.307 --> 02:00:14.887
lot of choice.

02:00:16.587 --> 02:00:17.347
Like, okay.

02:00:17.608 --> 02:00:19.850
So the best way to get a job

02:00:19.949 --> 02:00:22.632
still remains who, you know, right?

02:00:22.693 --> 02:00:24.734
Like if you know somebody who's working in

02:00:24.755 --> 02:00:25.234
a company,

02:00:25.694 --> 02:00:26.655
they can put in a good word for

02:00:26.695 --> 02:00:26.856
you,

02:00:27.556 --> 02:00:29.038
but you still have to go through the

02:00:29.059 --> 02:00:30.640
official process, which means applying.

02:00:30.779 --> 02:00:32.841
And a lot of companies do have like

02:00:32.862 --> 02:00:33.762
a first party portal.

02:00:33.823 --> 02:00:34.743
So I guess that's pretty good.

02:00:35.384 --> 02:00:37.426
But even then that like first party portal

02:00:37.466 --> 02:00:38.726
really is like administered by someone

02:00:38.847 --> 02:00:39.608
like, and my last job,

02:00:39.627 --> 02:00:40.929
I think it was day force, um,

02:00:41.729 --> 02:00:43.391
i just i just had a co-worker who

02:00:43.412 --> 02:00:45.273
was like hey i need a job are

02:00:45.313 --> 02:00:47.614
they hiring uh or a friend who was

02:00:47.635 --> 02:00:49.015
a co-worker so we were in the same

02:00:49.036 --> 02:00:51.057
industry and i sent him the link and

02:00:51.097 --> 02:00:52.458
i texted my old boss i'm like hey

02:00:52.498 --> 02:00:53.260
you know you should give this guy an

02:00:53.279 --> 02:00:55.481
interview he's a really hard worker but i

02:00:55.521 --> 02:00:56.722
still noticed when i sent him the link

02:00:56.743 --> 02:00:58.463
i'm like oh this is just day force

02:00:58.824 --> 02:01:02.488
so it's um unfortunately i think it's what

02:01:02.547 --> 02:01:03.309
i try to do is i try to

02:01:03.368 --> 02:01:05.029
minimize things so like i use a voice

02:01:05.069 --> 02:01:07.032
over ip number i have an email dedicated

02:01:07.072 --> 02:01:08.033
specifically for work

02:01:09.052 --> 02:01:10.694
I do still use like Brave and,

02:01:10.793 --> 02:01:12.395
you know, all my usual privacy browsers.

02:01:12.414 --> 02:01:13.395
I try to use VPN.

02:01:14.255 --> 02:01:16.336
I think, I don't know.

02:01:16.456 --> 02:01:18.136
I think it's also like how sensitive is

02:01:18.157 --> 02:01:18.896
this data really?

02:01:18.957 --> 02:01:20.278
Like, yes, it identifies you,

02:01:20.318 --> 02:01:21.618
like how many people have worked at that

02:01:21.639 --> 02:01:24.140
same specific set of jobs, but it's,

02:01:24.439 --> 02:01:25.520
I guess it's like a threat model thing.

02:01:25.579 --> 02:01:25.840
Like, okay,

02:01:25.859 --> 02:01:26.881
they're going to build it for marketing.

02:01:27.753 --> 02:01:29.274
I mostly block ads anyways, right?

02:01:29.335 --> 02:01:30.595
So I'm not super worried about that.

02:01:31.117 --> 02:01:33.118
And also like in terms of a data

02:01:33.137 --> 02:01:35.380
breach, again, voice over IP number,

02:01:35.520 --> 02:01:36.581
I use a PO box.

02:01:37.180 --> 02:01:37.561
I actually,

02:01:37.641 --> 02:01:39.283
one thing I do is I don't put

02:01:39.363 --> 02:01:41.324
in, at least on the resume,

02:01:41.404 --> 02:01:42.546
I don't put it in an actual street

02:01:42.605 --> 02:01:42.886
address.

02:01:42.985 --> 02:01:44.167
I just put in like a city,

02:01:44.207 --> 02:01:44.747
state and zip.

02:01:45.927 --> 02:01:47.029
And then if they want to hire me,

02:01:47.088 --> 02:01:48.090
I'll give them a PO box.

02:01:48.791 --> 02:01:52.233
So I think it's like anything,

02:01:52.453 --> 02:01:53.314
it's about threat model, right?

02:01:53.333 --> 02:01:54.215
Like what are you trying to protect

02:01:54.255 --> 02:01:54.475
against?

02:01:54.515 --> 02:01:54.734
For me,

02:01:54.774 --> 02:01:56.015
I'm mostly trying to protect against data

02:01:56.036 --> 02:01:56.436
breaches,

02:01:57.770 --> 02:01:58.954
And I think there's only so much you

02:01:58.994 --> 02:02:00.238
can do to be totally honest.

02:02:00.279 --> 02:02:00.439
I mean,

02:02:00.479 --> 02:02:01.623
unfortunately we still need to pay the

02:02:01.644 --> 02:02:02.006
bills.

02:02:02.386 --> 02:02:03.652
So that's kind of my take.

02:02:05.416 --> 02:02:08.556
yeah i mean i think it's also interesting

02:02:08.636 --> 02:02:10.516
i mean i come from uh i come

02:02:10.537 --> 02:02:12.717
from like not working for companies i come

02:02:12.757 --> 02:02:15.997
from like being a contractor and working

02:02:16.018 --> 02:02:17.538
for myself so i mean i don't know

02:02:17.639 --> 02:02:19.979
not everyone has that opportunity like not

02:02:20.038 --> 02:02:22.739
everyone can do that um but i think

02:02:23.300 --> 02:02:25.460
that does give you somewhat more control

02:02:25.500 --> 02:02:28.161
because you are your own employer like i

02:02:28.201 --> 02:02:31.001
guess um which you know not every job

02:02:31.180 --> 02:02:32.761
has the ability to do that but i

02:02:32.782 --> 02:02:33.622
think that is one

02:02:34.608 --> 02:02:38.951
area that you can have slightly more

02:02:38.970 --> 02:02:41.771
control I guess um but yeah I don't

02:02:41.792 --> 02:02:44.993
really have I've never really had a a

02:02:45.074 --> 02:02:47.855
real job question in quotes like whatever

02:02:48.015 --> 02:02:49.737
you know what I'm talking about but yeah

02:02:50.537 --> 02:02:53.899
um so I don't know maybe that's something

02:02:53.939 --> 02:02:55.881
else to consider but it's obviously it's

02:02:55.900 --> 02:02:57.921
very applicable it's very depends on your

02:02:57.962 --> 02:02:58.462
situation

02:03:00.662 --> 02:03:00.903
Yeah.

02:03:01.082 --> 02:03:01.484
I, um,

02:03:01.623 --> 02:03:02.925
I was a freelancer for a lot of

02:03:02.944 --> 02:03:04.565
years and ideally that's the way to go,

02:03:04.685 --> 02:03:06.106
especially once I got into privacy.

02:03:06.127 --> 02:03:08.207
Cause originally I was a freelancer before

02:03:08.247 --> 02:03:09.088
I was into privacy.

02:03:09.229 --> 02:03:10.550
And then once I got into privacy and

02:03:10.569 --> 02:03:11.729
I realized I'm like, oh yeah,

02:03:11.871 --> 02:03:14.192
I could totally like put my PO box

02:03:14.292 --> 02:03:16.132
on all these invoices and set up a

02:03:16.373 --> 02:03:16.993
separate email.

02:03:17.054 --> 02:03:19.376
And, um, like it's,

02:03:19.515 --> 02:03:21.777
it's pretty cool how much flexibility you

02:03:21.837 --> 02:03:24.059
have as a freelancer in that regard.

02:03:24.158 --> 02:03:27.381
But, um, yeah, not everybody has that.

02:03:28.402 --> 02:03:28.921
Unfortunately.

02:03:29.579 --> 02:03:30.746
And the taxes are awful.

02:03:32.152 --> 02:03:32.814
Oh, my God.

02:03:36.731 --> 02:03:38.153
My other project, the new oil,

02:03:38.472 --> 02:03:39.493
for intents and purposes,

02:03:39.533 --> 02:03:40.354
the government treats it,

02:03:40.413 --> 02:03:42.435
the company that I structured it as for

02:03:42.475 --> 02:03:43.255
privacy reasons,

02:03:43.735 --> 02:03:45.976
the government basically views it as my

02:03:46.016 --> 02:03:46.697
personal money.

02:03:46.936 --> 02:03:48.898
So I have to pay taxes every year.

02:03:49.037 --> 02:03:50.458
I haven't gotten a tax return in years,

02:03:50.498 --> 02:03:52.039
which to be fair is a good problem

02:03:52.060 --> 02:03:52.500
to have.

02:03:52.920 --> 02:03:53.460
But boy,

02:03:53.479 --> 02:03:54.801
do I have an attitude every time I

02:03:54.820 --> 02:03:56.442
have to file taxes because I'm like, damn,

02:03:56.801 --> 02:03:58.643
I don't remember Uncle Sam filing any pull

02:03:58.682 --> 02:04:01.783
requests or writing any blog posts or

02:04:01.844 --> 02:04:02.645
editing any videos.

02:04:03.045 --> 02:04:03.125
Yeah.

02:04:05.527 --> 02:04:06.868
don't get me started on the taxes i'm

02:04:06.948 --> 02:04:11.354
so pissed but anyways yeah i mean yeah

02:04:11.573 --> 02:04:14.077
that's uh that's definitely a downside of

02:04:14.096 --> 02:04:15.979
that um kind of happy that i'm an

02:04:15.998 --> 02:04:17.680
employee now i don't have to worry about

02:04:17.780 --> 02:04:21.546
all the ridiculous tax structures um but

02:04:21.586 --> 02:04:22.807
yeah there's uh there's

02:04:24.059 --> 02:04:25.420
There's ways to do that.

02:04:25.880 --> 02:04:28.582
Oh, someone in the chat has asked, Tam,

02:04:28.681 --> 02:04:29.842
seven, four, eight, asks,

02:04:29.922 --> 02:04:32.805
what's Silo about?

02:04:32.824 --> 02:04:33.685
I was going to get to that one.

02:04:35.006 --> 02:04:35.806
Not to get off topic.

02:04:36.587 --> 02:04:38.988
Silo is a post-apocalyptic sci-fi show.

02:04:39.710 --> 02:04:40.810
Think of it kind of like Fallout,

02:04:40.829 --> 02:04:41.770
but a lot more serious.

02:04:41.970 --> 02:04:45.092
It's humanity is now living in an

02:04:45.172 --> 02:04:46.753
underground silo and they cannot go

02:04:46.814 --> 02:04:48.956
outside and they don't know why.

02:04:49.555 --> 02:04:51.637
That's kind of the elevator pitch I would

02:04:51.677 --> 02:04:51.898
give.

02:04:52.855 --> 02:04:53.195
I love it.

02:04:53.475 --> 02:04:54.497
I got my sister into it.

02:04:54.856 --> 02:04:56.238
My sister actually watched it twice,

02:04:56.278 --> 02:04:57.057
which was wild.

02:04:57.918 --> 02:04:58.458
I forget what it was,

02:04:58.479 --> 02:04:59.800
but I texted her something one time and

02:04:59.819 --> 02:05:01.121
she's like, Oh yeah, I'm rewatching silo.

02:05:01.140 --> 02:05:01.841
And I'm like, wait, what?

02:05:03.082 --> 02:05:03.902
So my next goal is I want to

02:05:03.921 --> 02:05:06.524
get my wife into it next, but yeah.

02:05:06.623 --> 02:05:07.264
Well,

02:05:07.323 --> 02:05:09.506
that does sound pretty interesting

02:05:09.525 --> 02:05:09.685
actually.

02:05:09.706 --> 02:05:10.345
Stairs and more stairs.

02:05:10.685 --> 02:05:11.025
Yeah.

02:05:11.787 --> 02:05:12.806
Lesser one has seen it.

02:05:13.087 --> 02:05:13.627
He's not wrong.

02:05:14.228 --> 02:05:14.788
Lots of stairs.

02:05:18.069 --> 02:05:19.289
i guess we'll uh we'll go back to

02:05:19.409 --> 02:05:21.110
we got one more how private are messages

02:05:21.171 --> 02:05:22.490
on signal i heard people had their

02:05:22.511 --> 02:05:24.771
messages leaked or something like that um

02:05:24.811 --> 02:05:26.671
so every single story i've ever heard

02:05:26.712 --> 02:05:27.813
about somebody getting their messages

02:05:27.853 --> 02:05:31.173
leaked on signal has come from the end

02:05:31.213 --> 02:05:32.873
point being vulnerable in the sense of

02:05:32.934 --> 02:05:35.095
like um several i think it was during

02:05:35.135 --> 02:05:37.215
the first trump administration somebody

02:05:37.274 --> 02:05:39.036
had their their signal hacked quote

02:05:39.055 --> 02:05:42.157
unquote because the fbi sees their phone

02:05:42.176 --> 02:05:43.296
and unlocked their phone and looked at

02:05:43.317 --> 02:05:44.856
their messages like obviously there's no

02:05:44.896 --> 02:05:46.278
amount of encryption in the world that can

02:05:46.318 --> 02:05:46.978
save you from that

02:05:47.793 --> 02:05:48.114
Um,

02:05:48.175 --> 02:05:49.515
I know there have been right now in

02:05:49.595 --> 02:05:49.836
Europe,

02:05:49.855 --> 02:05:51.157
there's actually been a lot of phishing

02:05:51.197 --> 02:05:54.140
attacks on politicians to get access to

02:05:54.180 --> 02:05:55.301
their signal and their WhatsApp.

02:05:56.061 --> 02:05:57.783
Um, so if they manage to,

02:05:58.043 --> 02:05:59.265
and a lot of the time what they'll

02:05:59.305 --> 02:05:59.604
do with,

02:05:59.845 --> 02:06:01.067
in the case of signal specifically,

02:06:01.087 --> 02:06:02.988
I don't know how WhatsApp works, but, um,

02:06:03.769 --> 02:06:04.590
a lot of the time what they try

02:06:04.609 --> 02:06:06.690
to do is basically try to trick users

02:06:06.810 --> 02:06:10.412
into linking the attacker's device.

02:06:10.552 --> 02:06:12.033
Like basically it's a really clever way to

02:06:12.052 --> 02:06:13.514
get them to scan the QR code without

02:06:13.554 --> 02:06:14.055
realizing it.

02:06:14.574 --> 02:06:17.176
And so now the attacker over in Moscow

02:06:17.216 --> 02:06:18.016
or Beijing or wherever

02:06:18.697 --> 02:06:21.136
has a Signal desktop linked to your phone

02:06:21.176 --> 02:06:22.137
and they get a copy of all your

02:06:22.158 --> 02:06:22.637
messages.

02:06:23.358 --> 02:06:24.597
And so those are the kind of things

02:06:24.637 --> 02:06:26.958
like Signal has rolled out some things to

02:06:26.998 --> 02:06:28.798
try and slow down those kind of attacks.

02:06:28.838 --> 02:06:29.939
But those are things that are not

02:06:30.399 --> 02:06:32.579
vulnerabilities in the Signal protocol.

02:06:32.760 --> 02:06:35.039
Those are like phishing attacks.

02:06:35.199 --> 02:06:36.939
And again, like your phone was unlocked.

02:06:36.960 --> 02:06:38.341
Like those are things that we would expect

02:06:38.360 --> 02:06:39.900
to see with anything.

02:06:39.961 --> 02:06:41.520
So at this time,

02:06:41.820 --> 02:06:42.600
as far as we know,

02:06:42.761 --> 02:06:44.521
Signal is the most private and secure

02:06:44.561 --> 02:06:45.181
messenger out there.

02:06:45.905 --> 02:06:47.667
or at least like top five,

02:06:47.967 --> 02:06:48.847
like point blank.

02:06:49.028 --> 02:06:50.328
I mean, there's really no arguing that.

02:06:50.368 --> 02:06:53.051
There have been so many experts from so

02:06:53.070 --> 02:06:54.832
many different political leanings,

02:06:54.912 --> 02:06:55.632
countries,

02:06:56.434 --> 02:06:58.114
fields of expertise who have looked at the

02:06:58.135 --> 02:06:59.336
code and been like, yeah,

02:06:59.376 --> 02:07:00.377
this looks amazing.

02:07:00.457 --> 02:07:01.957
This is really solid and secure.

02:07:02.497 --> 02:07:03.399
So-

02:07:03.759 --> 02:07:05.020
They don't log any metadata.

02:07:06.060 --> 02:07:07.622
They're designed to be trustless,

02:07:07.881 --> 02:07:09.743
where it doesn't really matter if the

02:07:09.783 --> 02:07:11.423
server is compromised.

02:07:11.503 --> 02:07:11.725
I mean,

02:07:12.265 --> 02:07:13.506
I guess you could argue maybe the server

02:07:13.525 --> 02:07:14.747
would be able to record some metadata in

02:07:14.806 --> 02:07:15.247
real time,

02:07:15.287 --> 02:07:16.547
but they won't be able to get access

02:07:16.568 --> 02:07:17.207
to your messages.

02:07:18.288 --> 02:07:19.789
They've had multiple court cases where

02:07:19.810 --> 02:07:21.751
they've had authorities request data,

02:07:21.890 --> 02:07:23.912
and the only data they ever have is

02:07:25.854 --> 02:07:27.435
when the account was created and the last

02:07:27.454 --> 02:07:28.775
time you connected to their server.

02:07:29.015 --> 02:07:29.216
So...

02:07:30.279 --> 02:07:31.198
I mean, yeah.

02:07:31.338 --> 02:07:32.960
How private are messages on Signal?

02:07:34.079 --> 02:07:35.940
Governments around the world rely on it.

02:07:36.301 --> 02:07:40.023
And then Roy caught what I said.

02:07:40.323 --> 02:07:41.082
What about SimpleX?

02:07:41.283 --> 02:07:42.703
I'm less familiar with SimpleX,

02:07:42.724 --> 02:07:43.524
to be totally honest,

02:07:43.663 --> 02:07:49.966
but we do recommend it on Privacy Guides.

02:07:50.186 --> 02:07:52.327
It is very secure as far as I

02:07:52.346 --> 02:07:52.527
know.

02:07:52.667 --> 02:07:53.807
I think they are

02:07:54.528 --> 02:07:56.230
also working on post-quantum encryption.

02:07:56.271 --> 02:07:58.274
So I mean, SimpleX is also really secure.

02:07:59.077 --> 02:08:00.739
It's a harder sell for people because

02:08:00.760 --> 02:08:02.743
there's less users, there's less features.

02:08:04.764 --> 02:08:05.323
I hate to say it,

02:08:05.344 --> 02:08:06.644
but when we're trying to make these tools

02:08:06.684 --> 02:08:07.543
accessible to people,

02:08:07.984 --> 02:08:09.984
people really care about the features.

02:08:10.185 --> 02:08:11.265
Signal got a lot of flack when they

02:08:11.305 --> 02:08:12.164
rolled out GIF support,

02:08:12.444 --> 02:08:13.565
but that's what gets people around.

02:08:13.605 --> 02:08:14.865
The group chats, the attachments,

02:08:14.886 --> 02:08:16.506
the GIF support, the user friendliness.

02:08:17.666 --> 02:08:18.405
SimpleX is great.

02:08:18.605 --> 02:08:19.587
I have a SimpleX account,

02:08:19.747 --> 02:08:22.726
but it's just a hard sell.

02:08:22.766 --> 02:08:23.747
If you can find people to use it,

02:08:23.766 --> 02:08:24.346
go ahead and use it.

02:08:24.466 --> 02:08:25.307
I'm not saying not to.

02:08:25.768 --> 02:08:26.768
You're just probably going to have a hard

02:08:26.807 --> 02:08:28.967
time getting your friends and family on

02:08:29.028 --> 02:08:29.127
it.

02:08:29.148 --> 02:08:32.769
I don't know what I would do without

02:08:32.788 --> 02:08:33.368
my stickers.

02:08:35.216 --> 02:08:36.657
I'm slowly getting more and more into

02:08:36.676 --> 02:08:36.917
gifts.

02:08:36.997 --> 02:08:37.658
I hate to say it,

02:08:37.717 --> 02:08:39.217
but I'm really getting into gifts.

02:08:40.037 --> 02:08:40.978
I'm starting to use a lot of gifts.

02:08:40.997 --> 02:08:43.359
And then the last thing that, you know,

02:08:43.399 --> 02:08:44.679
you don't even need a phone number for

02:08:44.719 --> 02:08:45.139
simple X.

02:08:45.519 --> 02:08:46.519
I think now we're kind of getting into

02:08:46.538 --> 02:08:48.020
like privacy versus anonymity.

02:08:48.939 --> 02:08:50.260
And I think it's also worth noting that

02:08:50.300 --> 02:08:50.979
signal does,

02:08:52.060 --> 02:08:53.581
they save a hash of your phone number,

02:08:53.680 --> 02:08:54.841
not your actual phone number,

02:08:54.860 --> 02:08:55.680
if I remember correctly.

02:08:55.761 --> 02:08:59.122
So like in theory, the, the cops can't,

02:09:00.393 --> 02:09:01.413
I mean I guess the cops could give

02:09:01.434 --> 02:09:02.434
them a phone number and be like,

02:09:02.474 --> 02:09:03.494
do you have this user?

02:09:03.555 --> 02:09:04.735
But they're not really going to get much

02:09:04.756 --> 02:09:05.155
from that.

02:09:06.337 --> 02:09:07.698
So I don't know.

02:09:07.797 --> 02:09:11.980
I think personally I see the complaint.

02:09:12.001 --> 02:09:12.720
We just talked about this.

02:09:12.801 --> 02:09:15.882
I think I see the complaint with the

02:09:15.922 --> 02:09:16.963
phone number requirement.

02:09:17.823 --> 02:09:18.845
I think –

02:09:19.225 --> 02:09:21.166
Most people make it a bigger deal than

02:09:21.206 --> 02:09:21.805
it needs to be.

02:09:23.046 --> 02:09:24.828
Are there people who absolutely cannot use

02:09:24.847 --> 02:09:25.387
their phone number?

02:09:25.729 --> 02:09:26.069
Yes.

02:09:26.229 --> 02:09:27.208
I'm not going to argue that.

02:09:27.710 --> 02:09:29.130
Is that ninety percent of people?

02:09:29.631 --> 02:09:30.030
No.

02:09:30.551 --> 02:09:32.131
I'm glad that tools like simple X exist

02:09:32.152 --> 02:09:33.712
for people who are in that situation.

02:09:33.813 --> 02:09:35.594
But I think for people to just like

02:09:35.634 --> 02:09:37.175
completely throw away signal and be like,

02:09:37.255 --> 02:09:38.074
oh, it requires phone number.

02:09:38.114 --> 02:09:38.654
It's trash.

02:09:38.715 --> 02:09:38.935
Like,

02:09:39.456 --> 02:09:40.716
I think that's a really strong

02:09:40.756 --> 02:09:42.256
overreaction in my opinion.

02:09:42.277 --> 02:09:43.578
But I'll be honest.

02:09:43.637 --> 02:09:44.778
I'm a little bit of a signal fanboy.

02:09:44.797 --> 02:09:45.618
So maybe I'm just biased.

02:09:47.947 --> 02:09:50.328
Yeah, I mean, I think as well,

02:09:50.389 --> 02:09:53.872
like I don't want to throw simplex chat

02:09:54.653 --> 02:09:56.673
under the bus or anything,

02:09:56.753 --> 02:09:58.815
but it definitely seems like it's

02:09:59.235 --> 02:10:01.377
technically sound.

02:10:02.338 --> 02:10:04.460
It's got a good foundation, right?

02:10:05.740 --> 02:10:07.903
I think the main thing, and again,

02:10:08.002 --> 02:10:09.885
this is my experience.

02:10:10.024 --> 02:10:13.287
I tried it like probably a year or

02:10:13.328 --> 02:10:16.569
two ago maybe and my, yeah,

02:10:16.590 --> 02:10:17.411
maybe a year ago.

02:10:17.966 --> 02:10:18.648
um,

02:10:18.667 --> 02:10:21.329
the setup process wasn't quite as smooth

02:10:21.510 --> 02:10:23.952
as, uh, as Signal.

02:10:24.671 --> 02:10:25.353
So, you know,

02:10:25.393 --> 02:10:29.336
I think Signal does kind of have an

02:10:29.475 --> 02:10:31.237
edge in terms of usability,

02:10:31.417 --> 02:10:34.960
but I think SimpleX does seem to be

02:10:35.060 --> 02:10:39.323
more of this, uh, like you said, uh,

02:10:40.743 --> 02:10:45.007
privacy first solution, right?

02:10:45.028 --> 02:10:46.649
They're not requiring, uh,

02:10:47.994 --> 02:10:50.777
They're not requiring user identifiers at

02:10:50.817 --> 02:10:50.997
all.

02:10:52.917 --> 02:10:54.899
Yeah, and I think if I remember correctly,

02:10:55.219 --> 02:10:56.979
the founder of SimpleX said that one time

02:10:57.039 --> 02:10:59.421
is basically like when they started,

02:10:59.502 --> 02:11:01.903
they were really putting all their focus

02:11:02.184 --> 02:11:03.444
on security.

02:11:04.125 --> 02:11:05.466
And now they're at a point where like

02:11:05.506 --> 02:11:06.905
we feel comfortable with security and

02:11:06.926 --> 02:11:08.747
they're trying to put more emphasis on

02:11:09.768 --> 02:11:10.309
usability.

02:11:10.408 --> 02:11:11.229
And he's acknowledged that.

02:11:11.269 --> 02:11:12.529
He's acknowledged it's a shortcoming.

02:11:12.590 --> 02:11:14.631
That's just the particular roadmap that

02:11:14.650 --> 02:11:15.471
they decided to take.

02:11:16.375 --> 02:11:17.194
Um, so I think,

02:11:18.136 --> 02:11:19.756
I know we've already seen a lot of

02:11:19.796 --> 02:11:21.556
improvement in simple X in terms of things

02:11:21.577 --> 02:11:22.757
like battery life, for example.

02:11:23.257 --> 02:11:24.519
And I think in the coming years,

02:11:24.538 --> 02:11:25.578
we're probably going to continue to see

02:11:25.618 --> 02:11:25.998
more improvement.

02:11:26.019 --> 02:11:27.239
They actually just rolled out channels,

02:11:27.479 --> 02:11:28.880
um, similar to like telegram channels.

02:11:28.939 --> 02:11:30.520
So I'm really, um,

02:11:30.761 --> 02:11:32.402
interested to check that out personally,

02:11:32.481 --> 02:11:33.983
but yeah, I mean, I,

02:11:34.063 --> 02:11:35.082
I think in the coming years we're going

02:11:35.122 --> 02:11:36.503
to see, hopefully we're going to see some,

02:11:36.684 --> 02:11:37.743
some real improvement on the user

02:11:37.783 --> 02:11:40.064
friendliness side of simple X, but yeah.

02:11:40.805 --> 02:11:40.966
Yeah.

02:11:43.065 --> 02:11:44.546
We got one more question from Tim.

02:11:44.567 --> 02:11:46.046
Should we be using post-quantum

02:11:46.087 --> 02:11:46.768
cryptography?

02:11:46.908 --> 02:11:48.047
I feel like I've been talking a lot.

02:11:48.768 --> 02:11:52.569
Do you want to tackle this one first?

02:11:53.130 --> 02:11:57.371
We already did a video about post-quantum

02:11:58.070 --> 02:12:02.153
encryption algorithms and what the threat

02:12:02.252 --> 02:12:03.092
actually is.

02:12:03.773 --> 02:12:04.634
If you want to check that out,

02:12:04.673 --> 02:12:05.354
you can.

02:12:05.734 --> 02:12:08.555
I can give you the TLDR here if

02:12:08.595 --> 02:12:09.875
you don't want to watch that.

02:12:09.975 --> 02:12:10.855
Basically, it's

02:12:12.139 --> 02:12:16.881
A concern in the way that if your

02:12:16.942 --> 02:12:19.002
information and data is being collected,

02:12:19.103 --> 02:12:21.005
it could possibly be decrypted in the

02:12:21.045 --> 02:12:21.444
future.

02:12:22.145 --> 02:12:23.386
So, you know,

02:12:23.445 --> 02:12:26.068
we're not at a point where quantum

02:12:26.127 --> 02:12:27.988
computers are at a point where they can,

02:12:28.750 --> 02:12:29.710
or even if we don't even,

02:12:29.789 --> 02:12:31.230
and we also don't even know if quantum

02:12:31.270 --> 02:12:33.932
computers will ever reach a point where

02:12:34.052 --> 02:12:35.533
they will be able to decrypt data.

02:12:35.814 --> 02:12:36.795
these encryption algorithms,

02:12:36.854 --> 02:12:40.356
because I think there's it's kind of like

02:12:40.497 --> 02:12:43.198
AI, like there's so much hype behind this.

02:12:43.319 --> 02:12:47.041
It's like it's just hype everywhere.

02:12:50.002 --> 02:12:51.063
So I think, you know,

02:12:51.542 --> 02:12:53.243
take it with a massive grain of salt

02:12:53.864 --> 02:12:55.345
when when companies are saying, you know,

02:12:55.365 --> 02:12:56.805
we've made our encryption quantum

02:12:56.846 --> 02:12:59.167
resistant or quantum safe.

02:12:59.747 --> 02:13:00.288
I think it's

02:13:01.445 --> 02:13:02.167
It's useful.

02:13:02.386 --> 02:13:04.149
It's a good thing that most people should

02:13:04.168 --> 02:13:05.050
be doing at this point.

02:13:05.069 --> 02:13:07.112
This is like a positive step in the

02:13:07.152 --> 02:13:07.813
right direction.

02:13:07.912 --> 02:13:14.921
But I think the main thing you should

02:13:14.940 --> 02:13:18.425
be focusing on is using tools that respect

02:13:18.465 --> 02:13:21.207
your privacy that aren't going to be

02:13:23.185 --> 02:13:25.247
having the information in the first place.

02:13:25.367 --> 02:13:26.646
Like we were talking about with Signal,

02:13:26.686 --> 02:13:26.886
right?

02:13:26.926 --> 02:13:30.069
Like it would be better if the service

02:13:30.109 --> 02:13:31.849
wasn't collecting the information at all,

02:13:31.988 --> 02:13:34.350
if the connection,

02:13:34.449 --> 02:13:36.411
it didn't even matter if the connection

02:13:36.451 --> 02:13:42.033
was encrypted or not because they're not

02:13:42.052 --> 02:13:43.552
collecting the information in the first

02:13:43.594 --> 02:13:43.913
place.

02:13:44.713 --> 02:13:48.515
So I think it should be in every

02:13:48.694 --> 02:13:50.735
privacy tool's best interest to implement

02:13:50.775 --> 02:13:53.016
it, and we've already seen that now.

02:13:53.783 --> 02:13:55.364
Molvad and Proton,

02:13:55.385 --> 02:13:56.686
and they've been rolling out these

02:13:56.747 --> 02:13:58.608
post-quantum encryption tunnels.

02:13:59.309 --> 02:14:00.590
And, you know,

02:14:00.710 --> 02:14:02.011
it's good to see that this is being

02:14:02.030 --> 02:14:03.171
adopted more widely,

02:14:03.252 --> 02:14:06.795
but I think it's not a major concern

02:14:07.154 --> 02:14:07.795
at this point.

02:14:08.036 --> 02:14:09.556
But I think it's definitely something that

02:14:09.737 --> 02:14:12.698
we need to see pushed forward in the

02:14:12.719 --> 02:14:13.520
next couple of years.

02:14:15.768 --> 02:14:16.988
Yeah, I agree with all of that.

02:14:17.748 --> 02:14:19.609
There's a lot of debate even among experts

02:14:19.630 --> 02:14:21.310
about whether or not quantum computers

02:14:21.331 --> 02:14:23.393
will ever achieve their promised

02:14:23.432 --> 02:14:24.012
potential.

02:14:25.033 --> 02:14:26.014
I think right now it's one of those

02:14:26.033 --> 02:14:26.715
things where like,

02:14:27.509 --> 02:14:28.869
we have the capability.

02:14:29.409 --> 02:14:30.609
So let's do it out of an abundance

02:14:30.630 --> 02:14:31.911
of caution, which God,

02:14:31.951 --> 02:14:33.131
I wish more companies would do that.

02:14:33.171 --> 02:14:33.372
Right.

02:14:33.391 --> 02:14:36.332
We'd have so many fewer data breaches and

02:14:36.372 --> 02:14:37.793
we'd have so much better privacy if

02:14:37.854 --> 02:14:38.934
everybody was just like, well,

02:14:39.014 --> 02:14:40.835
technically we can do it this way.

02:14:40.935 --> 02:14:43.256
So let's do it just to be safe.

02:14:43.296 --> 02:14:44.355
But, um, yeah,

02:14:44.395 --> 02:14:45.296
I don't think it should be a deal

02:14:45.337 --> 02:14:45.716
breaker.

02:14:45.837 --> 02:14:45.997
Like,

02:14:46.037 --> 02:14:47.198
I don't think you should avoid a tool

02:14:47.217 --> 02:14:48.858
if it's not post quantum encrypted, but,

02:14:49.179 --> 02:14:49.819
um,

02:14:49.878 --> 02:14:51.179
I think if they've got it on their

02:14:51.219 --> 02:14:52.359
roadmap or they've, um,

02:14:53.277 --> 02:14:54.938
they're expressing an interest in it or

02:14:54.957 --> 02:14:55.778
they're working toward it,

02:14:55.837 --> 02:14:57.019
or they've already implemented it.

02:14:57.059 --> 02:14:58.739
I think that's definitely a plus for sure.

02:14:58.960 --> 02:15:00.800
True.

02:15:00.980 --> 02:15:01.161
Yeah.

02:15:01.240 --> 02:15:03.122
So Roy actually gave another comment here.

02:15:03.141 --> 02:15:04.622
It's so cool and super fast to open

02:15:04.662 --> 02:15:05.082
account,

02:15:05.203 --> 02:15:07.042
an account with simple acts very handy

02:15:07.063 --> 02:15:09.123
when you have many profiles on Graphene

02:15:09.144 --> 02:15:09.363
OS.

02:15:09.404 --> 02:15:09.604
Yeah.

02:15:10.024 --> 02:15:12.985
So yeah, I mean, I could be wrong.

02:15:13.105 --> 02:15:14.247
I could actually be a hundred percent

02:15:14.266 --> 02:15:14.766
wrong on that.

02:15:14.806 --> 02:15:16.948
Maybe they've re they've re they've

02:15:17.007 --> 02:15:19.168
rejigged their, their setup flow.

02:15:19.701 --> 02:15:21.162
Um, so yeah,

02:15:21.181 --> 02:15:22.603
take what I say with a massive grain

02:15:22.643 --> 02:15:22.962
of salt.

02:15:22.983 --> 02:15:24.323
I haven't used it in a long time.

02:15:24.344 --> 02:15:26.305
Uh, maybe I guess Nate,

02:15:26.345 --> 02:15:28.787
you haven't set up a new account probably

02:15:29.207 --> 02:15:29.948
in a long time.

02:15:30.109 --> 02:15:31.449
So it's probably not helpful either,

02:15:31.590 --> 02:15:34.712
but not, not super recently, to be honest.

02:15:34.832 --> 02:15:34.912
Um,

02:15:34.952 --> 02:15:36.172
I think a few months ago I set

02:15:36.233 --> 02:15:36.394
up a,

02:15:36.673 --> 02:15:38.375
cause one of the only things I don't

02:15:38.395 --> 02:15:40.235
like is, um, they don't,

02:15:41.077 --> 02:15:42.618
there is no like cloud sync of your

02:15:42.637 --> 02:15:43.198
database.

02:15:43.378 --> 02:15:44.619
So if you, um,

02:15:46.476 --> 02:15:46.657
Oh,

02:15:46.737 --> 02:15:47.957
I don't know if you have a phone

02:15:47.976 --> 02:15:49.537
that literally explodes or something like

02:15:49.578 --> 02:15:49.858
that.

02:15:50.658 --> 02:15:53.158
You might accidentally lose your account

02:15:53.439 --> 02:15:54.878
and all your contacts and everything.

02:15:54.998 --> 02:15:56.520
So it's on you to keep really good

02:15:56.539 --> 02:15:57.000
backups,

02:15:57.039 --> 02:16:00.220
which I don't always keep as good of

02:16:00.240 --> 02:16:01.201
backups as I should.

02:16:01.961 --> 02:16:02.261
Actually,

02:16:02.560 --> 02:16:03.501
I'll tell you exactly what happened.

02:16:04.782 --> 02:16:06.662
When I left Surveillance Report,

02:16:06.942 --> 02:16:08.342
I think we shut down our...

02:16:09.561 --> 02:16:12.103
We had a business account and I was

02:16:12.143 --> 02:16:13.783
trying to shut that down and I

02:16:13.904 --> 02:16:16.364
accidentally deleted all of my accounts on

02:16:16.404 --> 02:16:17.345
some on Siblex.

02:16:17.625 --> 02:16:17.845
Um,

02:16:17.885 --> 02:16:18.786
so I had to make a new one,

02:16:18.886 --> 02:16:20.025
but yeah,

02:16:20.046 --> 02:16:21.286
that was like end of last year,

02:16:21.326 --> 02:16:22.546
beginning of this year or something.

02:16:22.966 --> 02:16:24.127
Um, so not recent,

02:16:24.228 --> 02:16:25.547
I don't remember it being like crazy

02:16:25.587 --> 02:16:26.028
difficult,

02:16:26.087 --> 02:16:28.649
but it's certainly not like something like

02:16:28.689 --> 02:16:30.350
session or signal where it's just like,

02:16:30.390 --> 02:16:30.569
yeah,

02:16:30.590 --> 02:16:31.689
basically just keep clicking and

02:16:31.710 --> 02:16:32.611
eventually you'll get there.

02:16:32.671 --> 02:16:33.691
Like you do have to put a little

02:16:33.710 --> 02:16:34.592
bit of thought into it, so.

02:16:34.611 --> 02:16:34.711
Okay.

02:16:34.731 --> 02:16:38.313
Yeah, that's cool.

02:16:41.293 --> 02:16:41.655
Alrighty,

02:16:42.637 --> 02:16:44.681
I think since that was all our questions

02:16:44.700 --> 02:16:45.102
so far,

02:16:45.963 --> 02:16:49.271
I think we'll go ahead and call it

02:16:49.531 --> 02:16:49.871
a week.

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