1 00:00:05,109 --> 00:00:08,119 Nathalie Dowgray: Hello, welcome to the July episode of Chattering with ISFM. 2 00:00:08,510 --> 00:00:11,990 I'm Nathalie Dowgray, Head of ISFM and host of this month's podcast. 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,539 This month we have Dr Yaiza Gomez Meijas speaking with iCatCare's own 4 00:00:16,579 --> 00:00:20,489 Alex Taylor and they're discussing one of our newer carer guides, How 5 00:00:20,490 --> 00:00:22,459 to Increase Water Intake with Cats. 6 00:00:22,990 --> 00:00:27,410 Then we have AAFP's Dr Kelly St Denis and she's speaking with Drs Ilona 7 00:00:27,430 --> 00:00:32,790 Rodin and Daniela Ramos on the new AAFP Inter-cat Tension Guidelines. 8 00:00:38,459 --> 00:00:42,710 Yaiza Gomez Meijas: Why does International Cat Care consider necessary, a caregiver's 9 00:00:42,750 --> 00:00:45,060 guide to encourage cats to drink? 10 00:00:45,089 --> 00:00:47,360 Alex Taylor: Cats traditionally aren't very good drinkers. 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,129 They obviously drink enough to survive because they have to. 12 00:00:50,319 --> 00:00:53,399 But their ancestry lies with the Near Eastern wild cat, which tend 13 00:00:53,399 --> 00:00:57,359 to get a lot of their fluid from the prey that they capture and consume. 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,700 So they don't necessarily have a really big kind of thirst drive. 15 00:01:02,275 --> 00:01:06,195 This is okay for them to survive, but not necessarily when they start 16 00:01:06,195 --> 00:01:10,475 to get certain medical conditions or even just older cats, we need to make 17 00:01:10,475 --> 00:01:12,125 sure that they are drinking enough. 18 00:01:12,565 --> 00:01:16,444 And that can be a little bit problematic for cats that either can't access their 19 00:01:16,444 --> 00:01:21,155 water due to mobility problems, maybe, or for cats in multi cat households 20 00:01:21,155 --> 00:01:24,325 as well, when they can't get to their water bowl because there's other cats 21 00:01:24,595 --> 00:01:26,095 preventing them from getting access. 22 00:01:26,155 --> 00:01:28,445 It's important that we make sure that they are drinking enough. 23 00:01:29,465 --> 00:01:33,675 Yaiza Gomez Meijas: How can vets help to address owners concerns when they worry 24 00:01:33,675 --> 00:01:35,634 about their cats not drinking enough? 25 00:01:35,694 --> 00:01:38,285 This is a common concern I see in general practice. 26 00:01:39,070 --> 00:01:41,759 Alex Taylor: It is, and I think the main thing is to look for 27 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:43,979 any changes in drinking habits. 28 00:01:44,039 --> 00:01:47,919 If they're fed on a wet diet or predominantly wet diet, then owners 29 00:01:47,919 --> 00:01:49,720 might not see them drinking that much. 30 00:01:50,090 --> 00:01:53,149 If they're fed more on a dry diet, they may see them drinking more 31 00:01:53,180 --> 00:01:56,259 at the water bowl or at the water stations a bit more frequently. 32 00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:59,735 But really, what we're looking for are changes in their behaviour. 33 00:02:00,104 --> 00:02:03,935 So for instance, it may be that a caregiver just sees the cat drinking 34 00:02:03,935 --> 00:02:06,805 usually once a day and now they're seeing them at that water station 35 00:02:06,814 --> 00:02:09,894 much more frequently, or perhaps they're starting to drink from the 36 00:02:09,894 --> 00:02:11,485 dog's bowl and they weren't before. 37 00:02:11,495 --> 00:02:15,485 Or I've had one owner that the cat started to drink out of the toilet. 38 00:02:15,565 --> 00:02:21,110 So, those kind of changes in the cat's behaviour can indicate that they're 39 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,840 more thirsty, they need to drink more. 40 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,089 And if that's the case, then there could be an underlying medical 41 00:02:26,179 --> 00:02:30,579 reason for that, such as diabetes or hyperthyroidism or chronic kidney 42 00:02:30,579 --> 00:02:33,670 disease, all those kinds of things that we see in our cats quite commonly. 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,940 Yaiza Gomez Meijas: So what types of water bowl do cats prefer? 44 00:02:37,130 --> 00:02:39,350 And where in the house should they be? 45 00:02:40,365 --> 00:02:42,095 Alex Taylor: That's such a good question because I really think 46 00:02:42,095 --> 00:02:43,565 it depends on the individual. 47 00:02:44,565 --> 00:02:49,525 As a general rule, it's nice to offer cats a nice wide water bowl so that 48 00:02:49,525 --> 00:02:52,154 their whiskers don't touch the side because their whiskers are obviously 49 00:02:52,155 --> 00:02:55,645 very sensitive and if the whiskers are touching the side then that can be 50 00:02:55,675 --> 00:02:57,155 a little bit uncomfortable for them. 51 00:02:57,555 --> 00:03:01,645 So we want a nice wide bowl, ideally the bowl should be full to the top so 52 00:03:01,675 --> 00:03:05,325 that the cat doesn't have to dip their head too low so that they can still 53 00:03:05,325 --> 00:03:06,495 keep an eye on their surroundings. 54 00:03:06,604 --> 00:03:10,060 Remember cats are prey animals as, as well as predators, they always 55 00:03:10,060 --> 00:03:14,520 need to be on high alert really, but it can depend on the individual. 56 00:03:14,570 --> 00:03:18,599 For instance, an older cat might prefer a raised bowl, so they don't 57 00:03:18,660 --> 00:03:21,690 have to crouch down too much to access that water if they've got a bit of 58 00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:24,350 discomfort there from osteoarthritis. 59 00:03:24,890 --> 00:03:27,890 And some cats, I used to have a cat that used to like drinking out of a glass. 60 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,895 So it can depend on the individual, but generally a wide bowl, ideally 61 00:03:33,895 --> 00:03:37,975 something that's made of either glass or ceramic, not a metal bowl. 62 00:03:37,975 --> 00:03:42,055 They can be a bit noisy, a bit reflective, and the plastic bowls can sometimes 63 00:03:42,155 --> 00:03:46,565 harbour bacteria and also carry the smell of things that have been in them before. 64 00:03:46,975 --> 00:03:50,314 So we're really looking at glass or ceramic bowls. 65 00:03:50,905 --> 00:03:54,535 Water fountains as well for some cats if they like running water, they 66 00:03:54,535 --> 00:03:58,985 can be a really good option and just making sure that these water stations 67 00:03:58,985 --> 00:04:03,305 are spread out throughout the home, especially in multi cat households. 68 00:04:03,734 --> 00:04:08,155 So the access is easy without having to encounter another cat. 69 00:04:09,145 --> 00:04:13,445 And also making sure those bowls are not in the corner of the room, not too 70 00:04:13,475 --> 00:04:18,195 enclosed, because if a cat has its back to the room and it's living, again in a 71 00:04:18,195 --> 00:04:21,995 multi cat household, or perhaps there's toddlers running around, or there's a 72 00:04:22,044 --> 00:04:25,145 lively puppy in the room and they feel a bit anxious when they're trying to 73 00:04:25,155 --> 00:04:27,474 access that water, that's not ideal. 74 00:04:27,474 --> 00:04:31,234 So we need to move those water bowls away from the wall so that they've 75 00:04:31,234 --> 00:04:33,375 got kind of 360 degree access. 76 00:04:33,765 --> 00:04:37,395 Yaiza Gomez Meijas: So when water is not enough to encourage the cat to 77 00:04:37,395 --> 00:04:41,525 drink, especially in those cats that you mentioned before with diseases 78 00:04:41,525 --> 00:04:43,044 and dehydration, what can we do? 79 00:04:43,885 --> 00:04:45,265 Alex Taylor: Yeah, there's quite a lot of different things 80 00:04:45,265 --> 00:04:46,875 we can do nowadays, actually. 81 00:04:46,885 --> 00:04:49,294 So again, it's down to the individual preference. 82 00:04:49,294 --> 00:04:52,195 There might be a little bit of trial and error, but it could just be a case 83 00:04:52,195 --> 00:04:56,934 of introducing more wet food and less of the dry food if you want to increase 84 00:04:56,934 --> 00:04:58,635 a little bit more of that fluid intake. 85 00:04:59,164 --> 00:05:03,374 Or it may be that we need to offer different types of wet or fluid 86 00:05:03,454 --> 00:05:06,934 food or complementary food as well, which you can also get now for cats. 87 00:05:06,944 --> 00:05:10,374 So sometimes with my cats, for instance, in the summer, I will 88 00:05:10,374 --> 00:05:13,575 offer them the liquid treats that are frozen because they like to lick 89 00:05:13,685 --> 00:05:15,075 those and it helps to keep them cool. 90 00:05:15,075 --> 00:05:18,335 And it just, it increases their, their fluid intake a little bit. 91 00:05:18,635 --> 00:05:22,484 It may be that if a caregiver has the time, they might want to cook something 92 00:05:22,514 --> 00:05:26,335 nice and tasty, like some chicken or some fish and let the water cool and 93 00:05:26,335 --> 00:05:29,485 then offer that water to their cat so it's got a bit of a flavour, if 94 00:05:29,485 --> 00:05:31,494 you like, some sort of meaty flavour. 95 00:05:31,999 --> 00:05:35,960 Just avoid using anything with obviously spices or salt especially, we don't 96 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,939 want to be doing that with cats because that's not going to be healthy for them. 97 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:42,939 Another thing we can try is to get, say for instance, some tuna, a can 98 00:05:42,939 --> 00:05:45,580 of tuna that's in spring water. 99 00:05:45,629 --> 00:05:49,340 Make sure again it's not brine because that's salty and offer them 100 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,559 the water from that because that has that nice sort of fishy flavour. 101 00:05:53,309 --> 00:05:58,010 Or I really like nowadays you can just get like the soups or the 102 00:05:58,039 --> 00:05:59,750 complementary hydration foods. 103 00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:03,835 So these aren't a complete diet, so we need to be mindful that the 104 00:06:03,835 --> 00:06:07,565 cats getting other foods as well, but they can be really useful. 105 00:06:07,625 --> 00:06:09,165 They're mostly liquid. 106 00:06:09,225 --> 00:06:12,114 They have that kind of meaty flavour and they're already pre prepared. 107 00:06:12,115 --> 00:06:15,854 So they're quite easy for owners to get hold of and offer to their cats if they 108 00:06:15,854 --> 00:06:17,395 want to increase their water intake. 109 00:06:17,474 --> 00:06:18,034 Yaiza Gomez Meijas: Brilliant. 110 00:06:18,035 --> 00:06:18,524 Brilliant. 111 00:06:18,525 --> 00:06:19,275 Thank you very much. 112 00:06:19,855 --> 00:06:21,045 Nathalie Dowgray: And now Dr Kelly St. 113 00:06:21,045 --> 00:06:25,975 Denis is speaking with Drs Ilona Rodin and Daniela Ramos on the latest guidelines 114 00:06:25,975 --> 00:06:28,995 from AAFP on managing inter-cat tension. 115 00:06:29,104 --> 00:06:32,295 Kelly St Denis: What was the drive behind making a full guideline on 116 00:06:32,295 --> 00:06:34,005 the topic of inter-cat tension? 117 00:06:34,015 --> 00:06:37,134 What makes this such an important topic to veterinarians? 118 00:06:37,175 --> 00:06:41,085 Ilona Rodan: It's such an important topic because most veterinary professionals do 119 00:06:41,085 --> 00:06:43,845 not understand social behaviour in cats. 120 00:06:44,510 --> 00:06:50,289 Or, how to address inter-cat tension, which is such a common problem in cats. 121 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,570 The most common problems occur when introducing a new cat. 122 00:06:54,079 --> 00:07:00,039 The guidelines have, step by step, how to set up the home beforehand, make good 123 00:07:00,039 --> 00:07:05,229 decisions about adoptions, and then go through the steps of introducing the cats. 124 00:07:05,895 --> 00:07:09,225 Challenging cases will definitely need to go to board certified 125 00:07:09,225 --> 00:07:10,265 veterinary behaviourists. 126 00:07:10,545 --> 00:07:14,115 Daniela Ramos: When we look at the behaviour caseloads from behaviourists 127 00:07:14,135 --> 00:07:20,355 around the globe, inter cat tension and conflict is becoming the top one 128 00:07:20,635 --> 00:07:22,945 main complaint by the caregivers. 129 00:07:23,184 --> 00:07:25,385 It used to be house soiling. 130 00:07:25,755 --> 00:07:30,245 The current caseloads are showing that cat tension and conflict 131 00:07:30,315 --> 00:07:32,385 is getting the first position. 132 00:07:32,705 --> 00:07:38,990 So this means that caregivers are starting not only to seek assistance 133 00:07:38,990 --> 00:07:43,709 from veterinary behaviourists, but also to general clinicians. 134 00:07:43,709 --> 00:07:50,119 So veterinarians in general must know more to understand this problem. 135 00:07:50,199 --> 00:07:50,589 Kelly St Denis: Yes. 136 00:07:50,619 --> 00:07:55,390 And I love that you pointed out that inter cat tensions are becoming more 137 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:56,740 of the issue than house soiling. 138 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,409 And I know even in my practice, when I see cats, if there's more than one cat in 139 00:08:00,419 --> 00:08:03,619 the household, in most of my appointments, they're preventive care appointments. 140 00:08:04,184 --> 00:08:06,694 I'm going to identify something that's happening between those cats 141 00:08:06,694 --> 00:08:08,464 that the caregivers didn't recognise. 142 00:08:09,065 --> 00:08:12,434 And then the other aspect of the house soiling versus cat tension is 143 00:08:12,434 --> 00:08:16,534 that a lot of house soiling probably falls back on inter-cat tension. 144 00:08:16,825 --> 00:08:21,445 And maybe we're really starting to see caregivers are more aware of 145 00:08:21,445 --> 00:08:22,915 what's going on between their cats. 146 00:08:22,925 --> 00:08:25,355 And now they're not just coming in and saying, 'Oh, he's, he's peeing on my 147 00:08:25,355 --> 00:08:28,075 stuff because he's mad at me.' They're actually recognising that there's 148 00:08:28,075 --> 00:08:29,855 something going on between the cats. 149 00:08:29,945 --> 00:08:33,034 Ilona Rodan: And when they think, Oh, we were gone for the weekend. 150 00:08:33,044 --> 00:08:36,105 And now all of a sudden my cats urinating out of the litter box. 151 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:39,330 It's probably because I went away for the weekend. 152 00:08:39,570 --> 00:08:42,630 But they don't recognise it could be inter-cat tension. 153 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,690 It could be something else that was causing distress for the cat. 154 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:49,370 Kelly St Denis: In the beginning of your inter-cat tension guidelines 155 00:08:49,390 --> 00:08:54,019 is this 10 myths that you guys talk about for feline social behaviour. 156 00:08:54,359 --> 00:08:56,019 And that's one of my favourite ones, right? 157 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:57,740 Because I hear it all the time. 158 00:08:57,740 --> 00:08:59,120 He did it on purpose. 159 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,310 He was mad at me. 160 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:04,965 Why are these important with regards to inter-cat tension? 161 00:09:05,035 --> 00:09:10,964 Daniela Ramos: Our clients, they believe in so many myths and those myths, most 162 00:09:10,964 --> 00:09:18,475 of the times make the clients think the cats are all sorts of negative things. 163 00:09:18,904 --> 00:09:25,414 And before they understand the reason why cats behave in certain way, if we don't 164 00:09:25,724 --> 00:09:32,055 break this myth then their action towards managing the problem doesn't fit with the 165 00:09:32,055 --> 00:09:35,275 management we need to provide to this cat. 166 00:09:35,305 --> 00:09:42,245 So before any treatment plan, we need to help clients to understand 167 00:09:42,444 --> 00:09:46,944 what is cat interaction and why they have tension and conflict. 168 00:09:47,004 --> 00:09:50,314 Ilona Rodan: Veterinarian professionals, as well as caregivers, 169 00:09:50,645 --> 00:09:54,715 we need to stop thinking that cats are behaving to spite them. 170 00:09:54,815 --> 00:09:59,395 They're just in the moment, and okay, I'm fearful, I'm anxious 171 00:09:59,415 --> 00:10:00,985 because my caregivers are away. 172 00:10:01,275 --> 00:10:03,034 There's all kinds of reasons. 173 00:10:03,165 --> 00:10:08,604 And also to help veterinarians understand, cats are social animals, 174 00:10:08,734 --> 00:10:10,875 but they're socially flexible. 175 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:18,959 It really depends on their parents, their genetics, their parents sociability, their 176 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:21,069 experiences, especially early in life. 177 00:10:21,099 --> 00:10:21,420 Kelly St Denis: Yeah. 178 00:10:21,599 --> 00:10:24,859 And that's just something that we have to keep talking to people about 179 00:10:24,859 --> 00:10:26,280 and getting them to understand. 180 00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:29,250 There's no dominance hierarchy with cats. 181 00:10:29,449 --> 00:10:33,199 How can we help cats that live in the same household avoid competition? 182 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:37,569 Ilona Rodan: So we made a point of talking about the five pillars and 183 00:10:37,569 --> 00:10:41,910 that was an important section of the guidelines to explain to clients, 184 00:10:42,180 --> 00:10:46,380 what are the essential needs of a cat, of a feline healthy environment. 185 00:10:46,830 --> 00:10:50,220 And then when you put multiple cats together in the household, 186 00:10:50,569 --> 00:10:52,619 you need to think about resources. 187 00:10:53,089 --> 00:10:57,790 So the core territory is where cats want food, water, safe 188 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,630 places to rest, and also play. 189 00:11:02,180 --> 00:11:07,239 At the same time, they need to be separated so they don't have to be in the 190 00:11:07,239 --> 00:11:09,589 same exact place if they don't choose to. 191 00:11:10,364 --> 00:11:15,844 Daniela Ramos: People tend to think that cats occupy their space randomly. 192 00:11:15,925 --> 00:11:20,734 And then when we think about cats living in groups, they may think that 193 00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:26,184 it's a question of increasing the amount of resources and that's all. 194 00:11:26,664 --> 00:11:29,485 And it's not only about quantities. 195 00:11:29,785 --> 00:11:35,895 We have to understand how cats follow their feline rules when occupying 196 00:11:35,895 --> 00:11:38,355 the space, cats are not random. 197 00:11:38,765 --> 00:11:39,705 There are rules. 198 00:11:39,905 --> 00:11:44,765 This will help them decide about quantities and how 199 00:11:44,765 --> 00:11:46,505 to spread all this stuff. 200 00:11:46,964 --> 00:11:52,864 Ilona Rodan: Watch where blocking occurs, or where staring occurs, so that you can 201 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,590 tell, oh no, I need to move the litter box, or I need to move the food station. 202 00:11:57,830 --> 00:12:00,720 Kelly St Denis: Do you have anything else to add about how the five pillars 203 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,740 can be impacted by inter-cat tension? 204 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:08,629 Ilona Rodan: Introducing a new cat can lead to the resident cats 205 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,230 feeling threatened by this cat taking over some of their resources. 206 00:12:14,260 --> 00:12:17,770 Food should always be fed separately with the visual separation. 207 00:12:18,149 --> 00:12:22,550 And even food preparation should be done separately, in 208 00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:24,170 a separate room from the cats. 209 00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:29,050 Because often the cats are distressed during food preparation. 210 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:35,239 Other things, a cat blocking a litter box, or a cat blocking a cat bed, like 211 00:12:35,239 --> 00:12:37,499 they'll push another cat out of a cat bed. 212 00:12:37,769 --> 00:12:39,879 It's because they're insufficient resources. 213 00:12:40,060 --> 00:12:42,279 The five pillars are not just a checklist. 214 00:12:42,519 --> 00:12:48,769 They need to be reassessed and changed to meet the needs of every single cat. 215 00:12:49,790 --> 00:12:50,020 Daniela Ramos: Yes. 216 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:55,679 One of the pillars that I think it's very important, but in many occasions are not 217 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:02,199 so much discussed, is pillar four about providing the with positive, consistent, 218 00:13:02,249 --> 00:13:05,685 and predictable interactions with people. 219 00:13:06,104 --> 00:13:12,994 It's very common caregivers use verbal reprimands or water sprays. 220 00:13:13,025 --> 00:13:14,354 They don't know what to do. 221 00:13:14,354 --> 00:13:18,464 And sometimes they get very nervous with the situation and they shout. 222 00:13:18,895 --> 00:13:24,815 So the quality of the relationship between human and cats in that household, 223 00:13:25,315 --> 00:13:30,405 it deteriorates because not only the cats that are involved in tension, 224 00:13:30,405 --> 00:13:36,584 but all the others, all of a sudden is they start to listen to loud voice and 225 00:13:36,585 --> 00:13:39,445 the caregiver is not acting as before. 226 00:13:39,715 --> 00:13:43,795 So this creates even more tension for everyone. 227 00:13:44,015 --> 00:13:49,990 So this is something that it's very important to emphasise so the caregivers 228 00:13:50,210 --> 00:13:56,250 start right at the beginning, talking and acting in an appropriate way, at 229 00:13:56,250 --> 00:13:58,749 least to prevent the tension to increase. 230 00:13:59,625 --> 00:14:00,885 Kelly St Denis: That's an excellent point. 231 00:14:00,905 --> 00:14:05,295 These things come up every day, and I'm sure everyone also has lots of questions 232 00:14:05,295 --> 00:14:06,755 that they're thinking of in their minds. 233 00:14:06,765 --> 00:14:11,995 Please go and check out the 2024 AAFP Inter-cat Tension Guidelines on 234 00:14:11,995 --> 00:14:13,965 Recognition, Prevention, and Management. 235 00:14:14,015 --> 00:14:15,365 This is an amazing resource. 236 00:14:15,404 --> 00:14:17,285 There's lots of supplemental material also. 237 00:14:17,314 --> 00:14:22,205 I want to thank Dr Ilona Rodan and Dr Daniela Ramos for joining me today and 238 00:14:22,225 --> 00:14:26,665 also for all of their hard work put into being co chairs for these guidelines. 239 00:14:31,944 --> 00:14:32,864 Nathalie Dowgray: Thank you for listening. 240 00:14:32,935 --> 00:14:36,444 If you're an ISFM member, don't forget you can access the full version of 241 00:14:36,444 --> 00:14:40,744 the podcast and all the other ISFM member benefits, including Congress 242 00:14:40,745 --> 00:14:45,145 recordings, monthly webinars, our clinical club, the discussion forum, and 243 00:14:45,145 --> 00:14:48,225 much, much more at portal.icatcare.org. 244 00:14:48,675 --> 00:14:51,014 We'll be back again next month with another episode. 245 00:14:51,055 --> 00:14:53,805 If you don't want to miss out, do make sure you're signed up to Chattering with 246 00:14:53,805 --> 00:14:56,859 ISFM on your preferred podcast platform.