The Modern Hotelier #103: Hospitality Insights from the Independent Lodging Congress Sausalito, CA - Part 2 === Steve Carran: We are now joined by Dan Jacobs from Dan Dan, Esther Ev Restaurant, and All Day. Thank you for joining us. Dan Jacobs: me, guys. This is great. Steve Carran: So I just rattled off two restaurants and then All Day, which is a newer company. Can you tell about these? Dan Jacobs: Yeah, so You know, we opened up Dan Dan Restaurant and SREV in Milwaukee about eight and a half years ago Both restaurants, you know, really well well known in the city got some national press Me and my partner Dan are both five times James Beard semi finalists for Best Chef Midwest and Susan Lucci's of the Midwest region will never win, but hey, who cares? Uh, and then, um, you know, All Day is a new venture that we started with, uh, B& Co, which is a branding agency, and 360 Design, which has done all of our design work, and build work for our restaurants, and it just kind of seemed to make sense. That business is kind of like a one stop shop cohesive collab that, um, produces, you know, a complete package, idea for F& B to a, um, You know, to uh, independent, uh, realtor. David Millili: Is this your first ILC? Dan Jacobs: this is! It's, it's, it's really, really cool. It's way laid back. It's, I thought it was going to be kind of pretentious. Not at all. Like, it is like the most chill laid back thing ever. David Millili: Yeah, that's what, so we wanted to know kind of like what, you know, outside of, how do you feel like with this, you think you'll be coming to Nashville? How did you feel about this, this event in general? Dan Jacobs: I mean, I really, really enjoyed it. I think you get little bits of information, you know. Even sitting in on meetings about branding and thinking about stuff like scalable individuality, which somebody said. And it was like, that to me is just like, it's stuck in my head. Or, you know, taking on projects that have You know, a long, like a long lasting relationship. Not something that's just gonna be real quick and boom, boom, boom. Something that's gonna, you know, that you can cultivate over time. David Millili: Right. Steve Carran: So you were a runner up on Top Chef. Can you tell us about that experience and what that was like? Dan Jacobs: I mean, it was crazy. I kind of gambled hard on myself that, I was going to do well and I did. it was an incredibly rewarding experience. Got to meet a ton of really cool people that I'm going to be friends with for the rest of my life. But also, it was intensely challenging. it really challenged, You're, a mental fortitude, like you're cut off from all of your support systems. You have no outlet at the end of the day, like there's no television, there's no internet, you don't know what's going on in your sports teams, you have nothing. But what it, does is it really forces you to concentrate on who you are as a chef, and be able to tell that story, and I think that's really important. And I think that's really helped me grow, even at the ripe age of 45. Steve Carran: that's awesome. What was the dish that you made for the final, do you remember? Dan Jacobs: Oh, so like we did a four course for the finale and I think the one that I, I, I liked the most was one. So my, my final menu got kind of flipped up. So like, you know, they, they ask you for a list of ingredients and stuff to possibly bring on. and we lost kind of what was going to be my, through line story of all my courses, which was this, uh, cheese from, uh, Wisconsin called Rush Creek. And so we couldn't find the cheese. And so basically I just grabbed most of my menu and kind of start. From scratch, and there were other challenges that kind of go in there, but you learn to adapt and conquer, and I think that we did this dish that was actually an ode to the guy, uh, Dane Garcia, who ended up winning, but it was a, it was a grilled snapper with a, with a sobacha, broth, so we actually made, like, a dashi out of, like, the um, The fishbones, uh, so much of being, um, like a wheat based, uh, tea. Kind of infused that. That was something that me and him would drink like in the morning. Um, it was just kind of like a fun way to, you know, be like, Hey, this is my guy. Steve Carran: in, in the restaurant space and maybe even the hospitality space, what do you see for a challenge coming up for 2025? Dan Jacobs: I mean, it's I think this is stuff that we've seen over the past couple years like you're looking at you're looking at you know the challenges of inflation challenges of staffing and these are things that you know there you just really gotta get creative with and you have to find ways to kind of you know, be very flexible and be like water, be able to be able to kind of like flow without having to, you know, be so rigid. you know, whether it's like changing the menus or just being able to offer, uh, a more sustainable work environment for your team. I think these are the things that really benefited us moving forward in the, you know, in the last couple of years and moving forward, you know, for our future. David Millili: Yeah, we've been asking everybody for a prediction for next year, so we've been asking people around kind of the indie vibe and hospitality, but when it comes to food or the restaurant business, what's something you think that we're gonna see next year? Dan Jacobs: You know, I think this is something that I think means a lot to me and it's having, it's having a story and a point of view. And it's not just about, you know, I think the whole, the whole restaurant is an experience. And it has to, from the moment you walk in the door to the moment you leave, you, you're, there's got to be a story behind it. And I think people don't want these cookie cutter, like, Applebee's or Chili's or anything like that anymore. They want something that has, that has a story that has like a point of view. And I think that's, that's what, that's where you're, I think you're going to see the successful brands kind of pivoting towards this year. Steve Carran: Awesome. Great to have a fellow Wisconsinite on and join us. Thank you so much, Dan. And you can bet I'll be stopping by Dan Dan next time I'm in Milwaukee. Thanks, guys. Dan Jacobs: guys. Thanks for having me. It was awesome. Thank you. Now we are joined by a friend of the show, former guest from season one, G. B. Sharma from Mosaic. How you doing, G. B.? GB Sharma: Hey, good menu. Steve Carran: Doing great, doing great, great to have you back. So you're at Mosaic now, new company you started, GB Sharma: how long? Yeah, in 2024, this year. Steve Carran: first year. Tell us more about Mosaic and what you're doing for people that might not be familiar. GB Sharma: Yeah, absolutely. So we started Mosaic with the one thought in mind was to end the tech chaos. We know as hoteliers being in the independent industry, how tough it is when you look at your systems of being outdated, expensive APIs, broken connectivity, and at the end of the day, we are all losing revenue because of it. So how do you create one unified platform that you can find the best solution? That's best in class pricing, best in class technology, and you have the ability to not only bundle it, but also simplify to buy it as an a la carte, as and when you are ready to adopt new technology. So that's the first arm for Mosaic. On the second side of it, we have the whole commercial side of management. That we come in from an owner's perspective, that if tomorrow I had to buy the asset from you, what were all the places would be that I would find those gaps in order to identify that, yeah, I'm going to capitalize that from you, but instead we turn around and we give those to you to A, to capitalize on, or B, that we could put those training wheels for your assets to kind of help you navigate through those. Steve Carran: that's awesome. great. So how many ILCs have you been to? GB Sharma: Uh, this was my third. David Millili: third. Is this your first one outside of New York? GB Sharma: First one outside of David Millili: New York. Alright, good, I knew that. And so tell us, what do you think? So, obviously the New York, Steve and I have been to a lot. It's a different animal. It's New York. There's nothing like it in the States. So, what has this been like for you being in Sausalito? What has this experience been for you? Especially with a new company. GB Sharma: Yeah, first this is my stomping ground because this was my home for 8 years, so I lived in the Bay Area for 8 years, so I absolutely loved it. Absolutely couldn't turn down the fact that I had to be over here. Uh, second, uh, when you look at, like, so for me, I have a student mindset, so I'm always learning. So the collective wisdom and the knowledge that what you get here from so many leaders in the industry, that's absolutely awesome. So that is my biggest takeaway. David Millili: that's cool. That's great. Steve Carran: So looking ahead to 2025, we're almost there. It's October already. What are some challenges that we're going to see next year? GB Sharma: like, I think I can talk to it just back to Mosaic, right? Like, we want to, like, the whole technology stack of what people live with, you are into the budget season now. And everybody's looking at budgets just from a perspective of top line revenue and what that NOI is going to look like. But oftentimes, what really gets missed is, are we going to have the right tech stack when we go into 2025, so we don't have to die by a thousand cuts. We have the ability to say, we are going to figure out our soft seasons to make those right changes, and we understand we have the ability to partner with X companies to bring that pricing. Because it's not only the right tech stack helps you when it comes to, okay, like, more efficiency in terms of label, it's, it's price point, it's labor, and also how do you optimize your revenues beyond the tech stacks. Steve Carran: Absolutely. David Millili: That's great. So we're, we're going into 2025. Give us a prediction on what type of trends we're going to see or a trend you think that's going to kind of stand out in the forefront for next year? GB Sharma: Yeah, I think when you look at the words, uh, back like five years ago, the word of disruption was very big, right? And everybody said, yeah, we have like, we are doing machine learning and we are being disruptive. And now the new word is just AI, right? And how we are doing that adoption of AI. But the reality is there's a lot of garbage out there and there's a lot of good. How do you be, again, and like how, how do you use AI as your own tailwinds going into the year, whether be it on a very basic level of groups that you, that what is your minimum acceptable standard and how do you use AI to kind of get through it? How do you use AI for better guest communications, for loyalty programs, for understanding your own guests? I think all of those things are getting much better as we are seeing industry learn from it. Because really we are not at the, like we are not the folks in our industry for hospitality that we do things first and others copy. We are really the copycat adopters, right? So we are learning from other industries on what they do well and hopefully we can really catch up to it fast. David Millili: No, well Steve Carran: said. I have a follow up question for this. What industry do you think people in hospitality should. Pay attention to, to stay ahead of the curve and in the trends. GB Sharma: That's a good question. Uh, I really look at apparel very closely because, yeah, because when you look at retail, like it's the same modeling, right? You have a static price of one thing and then everything is based on the perception of discounts, right? And then you look at, and then when it comes to marketing side of it. You look at the travel industry, right? When you look at either airlines or when you look at the Ubers of the world and you look at how the marketing is so geared to you based on the offers that you get when you're looking at that Uber app versus what you look at when you get. It is really targeted to you based on your behavior. So that behavior aspect hasn't yet caught up in our own industry. Because in our industry, you both get the same offer, right? it's not really targeted. So I think that side of it, when you look at the travel industry and the apparel industry, it's really something for us to take a lot more learnings from. David Millili: That's Steve Carran: a hundred percent. Awesome. Well, thank you for stopping by GB. Great to see you and catch up once again. David Millili: Thanks, man. Thank you. GB Sharma: Cheers. David Millili: pleasure, man. GB Sharma: Thanks. Steve Carran: Now we are joined by Audrey Yates from Stash Rewards. Thanks for stopping by, Audrey. How are you doing this morning? Audrey Yates: good. good. The sun is shining. It's a little bit of a long night, but it was so much fun. Steve Carran: Gotta have them when you're at ILC, Audrey Yates: right? Yeah. Steve Carran: So you're with Stash Rewards. For those that might not be familiar, tell us a little bit about Stash Rewards and what y'all do. Audrey Yates: Yeah. So we are a, essentially a loyalty program for independent hotels. we only work with 100 percent full independents. So, nothing that has like a, you can't do like a curio or a tribute or an autograph, right? we also only work with highly rated independent hotels. So, we are one of the only programs that has really rigorous standards for those hotels we partner with. We have 340 partner hotels in North America. So, we're also, heavily focused here in North America, Central America. we haven't quite crossed the pond yet, but one of the reasons for that is we love being kind of the top program for this, This area of the country, or, of the world. we have 1. 2 million members. So, we have kind of two sides. We have the partner hotels and then we have the guests that we're bringing to them. So, 1. 2 million independent hotel lovers that come to us to sort of find the very best in the independent world. Yeah, David Millili: and then they earn points Audrey Yates: so they can use to stay at another independent hotel. Steve Carran: Nice. David Millili: great. So is this your first ILC? Audrey Yates: No, this is my third. Yeah, third. Congress, too. So, I haven't done any of the other, like, the Cultivate or any of that, but I always, this is my favorite one, David Millili: So, tell us a little bit about what you like about Audrey Yates: ILC. Oh, um, well, I actually went on, like, the record on a podcast, another one, saying that this is my absolute favorite conference of the entire year. It really is. It's, um, Every year you think, well, maybe I'm going to see the same people and maybe it'll be, it's every year it's so great. I love the networking aspect of it. I love the casual. I love how everybody feels included, right? Like Andrew said yesterday, it's about inclusion, not exclusion here. Um, you can wear what you're comfortable in. You can talk about what you're comfortable. Yeah. Steve Carran: right? Um, you know Audrey Yates: I have tennis shoes on and I was like, this does not happen usually. Um, but it's, it's important because I think that that then creates everybody feeling comfortable enough to have some really serious conversations and some lighthearted ones. So. Steve Carran: I I, was saying this yesterday, I feel like when you come here, like compared to other events where people have their guard up a little bit more because they're being sold, people here just are more relaxed and it's just you have more, I guess, free flowing conversations and really get to know people and you create a Audrey Yates: relationship. Like, I mean, my title is Vice President of Sales, right? Steve Carran: didn't introduce that. Okay, sorry. No, Audrey Yates: but what I'm but what's interesting about that is like, my job is to sell. I don't let I don't like selling. I love selling, but I don't like salespeople and things like that or really get a bad rap. That's why I love this conference because I've never come in here feeling like I'm, I don't bring materials, I don't bring, I just create conversations and I talked with people last night who are very big in this industry and we just do it. You know, like text each other now. You know, like you, you create this like relationship. There is no hard selling. I'm not handing you a pamphlet. I'm not handing you a book. I'm not, I'm creating, or you're setting up like, Hey, let's chat next week, like outside of here, it's no pressure and it's really, you get to connect with people from every aspect and there's no, you're not feeling intimidated or anything like that. Steve Carran: Right. Yeah. And I've heard that when you're singing with people on a bus, that really creates these solid foundations. I don't know who did that. Yeah, I don't either. Um, but anyways, what do you think is one of the big challenges coming for next year for independent hotels? Audrey Yates: Oh man. Um, there's been a lot of talk about AI. one of the things that we do at Stash is because we work with really highly rated hotels, we look at a lot of reviews. So we are very heavy focused on Google and TripAdvisor and, and really getting a good grasp of the hotel. A lot of our hotels have said they're concerned with how much AI are writing reviews and what is correct and what is not and what is authentic and what is not. so there has been a little bit of buzz about that and also what. What does that take away from the hospitable part of hospitality, right? and then of course there's always the amount of independents that have to jump ship and brand, and that breaks my heart every time. I, I, and I feel, yeah, I feel like every morning my news, my inbox is, is different articles, and then there's a so and so just flagged to this, and that, it's like a David Millili: every Audrey Yates: time. Steve Carran: We do a section called Hospitality Hot Topics once a month. And I think for the past four months, the number one story we've covered is an independent being bought by a brand. And I feel like a little part of David and I just dies every Audrey Yates: time Every time. Like, and I always feel like the bearer of bad news because I'm usually the first one that sees it because I get these emails and I will like put it into our like company Slack and it's like, another one bites the dust. And then here comes this David Millili: article and everyone's Audrey Yates: like, why? You know, I'm sorry Steve Carran: morning. Audrey Yates: 7 30. I'm David Millili: the day. Audrey Yates: I know. I know, So, but it is becoming more and more. I mean, it does, Um, my hope is that it also opens up the ability for new companies to come in and create something they've seen emulated from those who have then moved on and, and branded. but we'll see. I think there's a lot of opportunity for, you know, standalone independent hotels to really thrive too. So, Steve Carran: yeah. Agree. David Millili: in the independent sector, give us a prediction for 2025. Give us something you think, maybe not an acquisition, maybe just something like a trend or something that's going on. Audrey Yates: any more acquisitions. I David Millili: would Audrey Yates: like a 2025 with nobody going to Steve Carran: Milton, right? Yeah. Please, Audrey Yates: can we take a break? David Millili: break? Yeah. I should Audrey Yates: watch my audience. No, um, oh gosh, let me try and think. I think, I, well, I will say I think that, Sustainability is a really big thing that we're seeing. Um, a lot of our owner operator properties are really digging into that. They're trying to figure out how do they, um, participate in that space because a lot of them don't have the backing of a big brand or of, um, even a management company that is helping them to facilitate that. And there's a lot of, you know, Like, experience travel that people want, um, they want to know, you know, when they come to a, they want to, one of the reasons we choose independence, right, is because we want to be immersed in the world. The city, or the town, or the culture, or the history, right? Like, here at Cavallo Point, the history, or where, you know, Presidio, which is a partner of ours, that's where I was staying, and I, I mean, it's incredible. I could have spent an entire week just in the park over there, and there would have been something I could learn, and so those are the kind of things that I think independents get to do better, is, and I think we'll see a lot more of that, of like, here's why we're staying independent, here's the reasons we get to do these things, we get to showcase certain things, and we So yeah, I think that's, we'll see that, I hope, Steve Carran: Yeah, same. Audrey Yates: Yeah. David Millili: That's great. Thank you. We appreciate it. Steve Carran: Audrey. Aw, David Millili: so fun. I'm glad I Audrey Yates: glad I finally got to do it. Yeah. absolutely. That's Thank you. Great. Steve Carran: Now we are joined by Brian Polster from 360. Thanks for sitting down, Brian. How are we doing today? great. So for those not familiar with 360, can you tell us a little bit more about that? Brian Polster: Yep, yep. We're a design build company out of Milwaukee. we have a 25, 000 square foot facility, uh, just 15 minutes north of the city. we design interiors and then build them out in house and install them. And so, ultimately started in Milwaukee and we've started to really kind of spread our wings. We've got, uh, projects throughout, uh, throughout the region, um, and we're just, uh, basically in the, uh, F& B industry. Steve Carran: Very cool. David Millili: That's great. So have you been to ILC before? Brian Polster: This is my first time. David Millili: First one. So what are your thoughts? Is it what you expected or have you been to anything like Brian Polster: so, uh, I sent our um, business development manager to ILC last, uh, at Asheville, um, and, uh, he basically told me I had to go. Right. And, uh, he is not wrong. So, it has been a great experience. Um, I would say that the people that I've met, the things that I've heard, the discussions that I've been have, have been very, uh, inspiring, and, uh, the ideas of what we are considering for our collaborative business. It is, uh, seemingly something that could be receptive David Millili: to all. That's great. Steve Carran: So, looking at the food and beverage and hospitality industry as a whole, what are some challenges do you think that are on the rise for 2025? Brian Polster: I would say that challenges in F& B are going to be creating spaces that people are drawn to from an experiential standpoint. so ultimately, uh, we have always been about a branded interior, and so it, you know, as a design company, we are not trying to design our spaces, but we're designing our clients spaces. We're telling their story. And I think that the more that you can tell that story and get other people that are coming to these spaces involved in that, they're going to keep coming back. They're going to come back for the food, they're going to come back for the experience. And so, you know, some of the spaces that we have recently redone and brought some of these elevated experiences into, there's also a response from even the employees that are working in these spaces that are like, they're taking better care of these things, which is like, okay, I don't have to go and repair everything that we've built, right? And so it's exciting to see that more and more people are. So we are excited in these experiences and a place that they can go to that takes them away from their everyday. That's David Millili: That's great. So you're seeing, so as we look, we've been asking everyone to next year kind of piggybacking on the challenges, but are there, is there a trend or something along that lines? We know everyone's been kind of honing in on the experience side of it, but is there any particular trend that you think we're going to see more of next Brian Polster: year? I don't know. I don't know that I'd say there's a trend necessarily. I think that the biggest trend that I'm seeing is that people love to take their pictures in spaces, And be seen somewhere. And so how do you give somebody a place that they want to be seen in? That basically markets itself. ultimately these photos and these shares are driving people to these locations, not only for that experience, but then the food. And so, again, people are getting away from showing beautiful pictures of food, and they're showing the process, and they're showing the experience. And so, I think that because of the social media network that's out there, and the fact that you can be engulfed in all of these experiences just by flipping through your phone, you have to be able to contribute to that. David Millili: That's a great point. Excellent point. that. Steve Carran: is great. Well, thank you so much for stopping by. It was great to learn a little bit more about 360 and, uh, get to know you a little bit. So, it. thanks so David Millili: much, Brian. All right. Thank you. Great to meet you. Thank you.