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Welcome back to the episode of
the Startup Therapy Podcast.

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This is Ryan Rutan joined
as always by my friend,

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the founder, and CEO of
startups.com will schroeder.

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Well, startups are like the
only place where you cross the

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finish line and immediately
get handed a new race bib

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for the next marathon.

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And are the starter pistol fires

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Uhhuh.

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My English isn't English today.

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You close the round, you're
already raising the next one.

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You hit the milestone,
it resets to zero.

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So will in, in 30 years of, of
startups, how, uh, how often

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do you complete something?

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Dude, I'm still waiting
to complete something.

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Like, I feel like
it's, it's weird to me.

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Yeah.

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It's weird to me that we've all
gravitated toward an industry

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that doesn't really ever end.

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Yeah.

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Because I think, yeah.

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I think about like regular
people with regular like,

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like reasonable people.

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Let's not call 'em
regular reasonable people.

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Reasonable people.

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Yeah.

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Reasonable people
with a reasonable job.

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Their life looks
something like this.

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They wake up in the morning,
they have a place to be,

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let's say their job, right?

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Sure.

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They show up, they do
their work, they go home,

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they forget about work.

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Uhhuh, hopefully, right?

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And then on Friday
they get paid.

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That is a very reasonable
pace and it makes you feel

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like he got something done.

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It makes you feel like
good to go on vacation.

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It makes you feel like when you
go home, it's just done, man.

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Just done.

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But we're in a business where
no matter how well we do,

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all it does is set us up for
a much bigger problem next.

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Right?

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Like if we hire one person,
we got 10 more problems.

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If, if we launch one
more product, we got

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10 more problems.

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Yeah.

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It's endless, man.

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It just never ends.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's funny, I, I
think that part of it for

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me was realizing that there
was, the, the trap wasn't

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that we set goals, right?

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Of course, we need goals.

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We have to have something that
we're actually aiming towards.

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It was that we expected the
goals to deliver fulfillment.

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Instead of just progress.

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Right, right,

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right.

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I think that was the challenge
for me was that it was like I

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expected there to be this sense
of completion or this sense

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of fulfillment when instead it
was just, yeah, it's another,

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it's another goal complete.

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It's another milestone.

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And startups just kind of
tend to be infinite games.

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Right.

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And treating them like,

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yes,

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finite games kind of
guarantees disappointment.

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Well, so that's what I was
hoping to unpack today.

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I, I wanna talk about like, how
do we deal with no completion?

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No lack of, of an end game.

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And if you're new to
this, if you're new to

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the startup game, you are
gonna learn this very well.

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You're gonna learn that
no matter how much you do.

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Yeah.

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There's 10 more
things to replace it.

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It's not just whack-a-mole.

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Yeah.

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It's you, you hit the mole
and 10 more machines show up.

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That's it.

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With a whole bunch
of moles to whack.

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Right?

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Like it's a bit maddening.

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Yeah, and I think there's,
there's some broken psychology

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that's at the, the base of
this that, you know, again,

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I, I kind of wanna unpack.

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The first thing that I
learned about a long time

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ago was something called
the arrival fallacy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And the arrival fallacy
works like this.

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The arrival fallacy works
like I always believe.

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That if I just get to this
insert next step here.

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Yep.

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That everything will be fine.

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Everything else is
good after that,

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and then every time
I do it just resets.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Over and over.

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And for a lot of founders, this
is literally how our lives go.

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If we just get this pre-seed
round, we'll be good.

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Right?

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Everything will be fine.

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We just make payroll.

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Everything will be fine.

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And yet, 10 years later, right?

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It's still going
through the same thing.

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Yeah, that's exactly it, man.

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It's like every arrival is
just a, a costume change

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for the next party, right?

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Like Right,

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right, right.

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That's

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all that's happening.

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Right.

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It just, the goal moves.

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It might change
completely, right?

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Like, oh, the funding
round is the thing.

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Well, okay, yeah.

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Now that we've got the
funds, well now we actually

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have to grow a business.

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Now we have to go hire
a bunch of people.

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Now we have to do whatever.

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Yeah.

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I think it's when we start
to conflate milestones

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with meaning as opposed to
them just being markers.

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Right.

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And that like, yes,
they're, they're necessary.

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Yes, we have to achieve these
things, but I think we put.

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Too much weight on the, the
achievement of them or sort of

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what it's gonna mean to us, or
that there's for sure, for sure.

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There's nothing
after that, right?

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That's, that's the
real, the real problem.

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Your happiness depends
on the next milestone.

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Your happiness has a
subscription model, right?

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So you're just, you're
gonna keep consuming, man.

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You're never gonna cancel.

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But it's not the way this
process is built, which I

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think is, is interesting.

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There was a great, great
onion article, like this

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is like 20 plus years ago.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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And this is like toward
the end of the.com boom.

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And it said something to the
effect of Michael Delta's staff.

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We became the number one
computer manufacturer.

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We're done.

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Everyone go home.

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Right.

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Right.

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It's like, and so
the article, right?

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It was, it was such
a great article.

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In the article.

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It's basically him saying, look,
when we set out to build this

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company, I set out to build
a number one PC manufacturer.

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Right?

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And he's like, and we did it.

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Now everybody can go home.

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Right?

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It like, like, like it
was a perfect example of

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how this is never done.

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Yes.

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And I'll never forget
that the image they had,

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like the photo they had
was of two guys carrying

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out the ping pong tables.

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Like, we don't
need these anymore.

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Right.

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Perfect.

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It was incredible.

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No, this is, those are
the take home prices, man.

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We don't, we don't need this.

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But, but think about that.

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Like we don't get the
benefit that most people

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get of being done.

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Yeah.

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Ever.

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No, no.

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We don't get the
benefits any of them.

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Like it just the rest
that comes from it.

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But like, look, even at
just a very basic level,

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our brains get dopamine
hits for completing things.

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Yep.

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Startups are built to deny
completion, and that mismatch

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for at least, like in my
case, I certainly in your

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case, it creates this sense
of chronic restlessness.

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Right.

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That's why we're
always on the move.

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Even when we're sitting
down, we're like, what's the

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next thing I could be doing?

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What's the next
thing I'd be doing?

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What's the next
thing I'd be doing?

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What was the most
painful arrival?

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In your 30 years where you
got there and you were like,

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yeah, this is the one that,
that didn't actually land.

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I, I would say this is as
equally sad as it is painful.

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Okay.

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When I was in college and
I remember plain as day,

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I remember that if I could
just make enough money to

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cover rent, utilities, I
didn't even have a car.

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Rent, utilities, and food,
which by the way, collectively,

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collectively, was $500.

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Wait every month.

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Every month.

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Not daily.

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Every month.

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Yeah.

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My whole cost of living to
live as a human was $500.

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Yeah.

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In the United States.

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Right?

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If only.

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Anyway, but I remember
thinking that if I could make

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that kind of money, like I
would, I would be good to go.

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And, and honestly
it took a minute.

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Like sure.

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It wasn't that fast.

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And you know, part of that
too is when you're starting

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a business, you're often
losing money on things.

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Yeah.

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You're not just, you know,
instantly making money.

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And so I got there and I was
finally consistently making

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more than $500 per month.

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And I remember
thinking, I'm good.

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Yeah.

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Like, like, what else
could possibly happen?

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What else could there

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be?

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Right.

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And then within like a
week later, we needed to

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hire someone, which by
the way, it was Damon.

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Oh, that's

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hysterical.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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That's amazing.

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I mean, think like
30 years ago, right?

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Right.

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Now we need, have no
idea what I'm saying.

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A thousand dollars.

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That's

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exactly it.

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Uh, so for those of you
listening, uh, Damon, who's

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a great guy, a, a good
old friend of ours, I used

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to be one of the folks
here@startups.com, so when I was

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referring back, I mean, we're
going, yeah, way, way back.

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But I remember it like he
came on and like, I think we

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needed to pay him a thousand
dollars or something like that.

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Oh man.

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Per month.

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Right.

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And I was like, where am I gonna
come up with that kind of money?

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Right?

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Like, and then it
reset everything.

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I'm like, shit, now I'm,
I'm down $500 a month.

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Yeah.

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That's

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right's, right?

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I was good.

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Right.

263
00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:37,250
And I remember how
incredibly I was like.

264
00:07:37,890 --> 00:07:39,030
Is this gonna happen again?

265
00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:39,510
Yeah.

266
00:07:39,869 --> 00:07:41,250
What, like what about you?

267
00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:43,320
What's like the, the one
thing you thought if you

268
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:44,219
could just get there?

269
00:07:44,489 --> 00:07:46,770
You know, it's probably
honestly something similar.

270
00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:49,409
Uh, you know, I think it was,
I'm, I'll aim a little later.

271
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,719
Uh, because there was
definitely that like, let's

272
00:07:51,719 --> 00:07:54,239
just make the ends meet, let's
just figure out, right, like

273
00:07:54,239 --> 00:07:56,849
how they, we keep them from
turning the, the electric off.

274
00:07:56,849 --> 00:08:00,059
Because by the way, the
websites we're selling, they're

275
00:08:00,059 --> 00:08:04,710
hosted on a local server
that lives in my living room.

276
00:08:04,895 --> 00:08:05,224
Right.

277
00:08:05,224 --> 00:08:07,414
So if the, if the lights
go out, it's more than

278
00:08:07,414 --> 00:08:08,674
just getting dark in here.

279
00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:10,085
It was post hiring.

280
00:08:10,115 --> 00:08:10,385
Right.

281
00:08:10,385 --> 00:08:13,984
And it was then like being
able to say that like, not

282
00:08:13,984 --> 00:08:17,465
only do we have enough money
to cover payroll, it was

283
00:08:17,495 --> 00:08:20,284
getting to a cushion and I
set a really specific cushion.

284
00:08:20,284 --> 00:08:23,854
I wanted, I wanted
three months of opex.

285
00:08:24,094 --> 00:08:24,275
Yep.

286
00:08:24,484 --> 00:08:27,784
And we worked like crazy to,
to drive enough sales and

287
00:08:27,784 --> 00:08:29,525
like, which drives more costs.

288
00:08:29,525 --> 00:08:29,645
Right.

289
00:08:30,065 --> 00:08:30,664
Did a lot of things.

290
00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:33,930
Then I remember just thinking
like, once we have that

291
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,200
three months of money in
the bank, where I know that

292
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,750
like nothing, anything that
happens, I've got at least a

293
00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:40,830
couple months to figure it out.

294
00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,650
That is going to be the thing
that just allows this thing to

295
00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:45,000
go into a bit of cruise control.

296
00:08:47,730 --> 00:08:50,220
Oh, the growth that we went
through to get there, like

297
00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:52,920
that, what allowed us to
bank that cash put us on

298
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,930
a growth trajectory that
just kept things moving.

299
00:08:54,930 --> 00:08:56,850
And so then the, the
payroll grew, right?

300
00:08:56,850 --> 00:08:58,770
And then the, the
opex grew, right?

301
00:08:58,770 --> 00:08:59,910
And so then I'm all
of a sudden I'm like.

302
00:09:01,050 --> 00:09:05,730
90 days worth of opex is now
like 15 days worth of opex.

303
00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:06,510
So what did I do?

304
00:09:07,079 --> 00:09:09,840
We gotta get 90 days again
right back into like, did

305
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:10,740
I learn from that lesson?

306
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:11,970
Absolutely not.

307
00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:13,110
Absolutely not.

308
00:09:13,890 --> 00:09:15,990
Let, can we talk about
like where that comes

309
00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:17,069
from a little bit, right?

310
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:17,459
Yeah.

311
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:18,720
Why?

312
00:09:18,780 --> 00:09:20,459
So we, we talked about
the fact that like, you

313
00:09:20,459 --> 00:09:22,050
know, the fact that we're
never getting the dopamine

314
00:09:22,050 --> 00:09:24,600
hit at completion creates
this insane restlessness.

315
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,990
And I think that is,
that's one of the drivers.

316
00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:31,530
But then there's this other
one, which is that we're taught

317
00:09:31,530 --> 00:09:34,860
to despise complacency, right?

318
00:09:34,860 --> 00:09:35,069
Yeah.

319
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,949
Like as founders, it's
not, it's not also, okay.

320
00:09:37,949 --> 00:09:39,719
It wasn't okay to just
sit and say like, we

321
00:09:39,719 --> 00:09:40,680
have 90 days of opex.

322
00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:43,020
Now let's just keep operating
at exactly the same level

323
00:09:43,020 --> 00:09:45,689
we're at and never move,
and everything will be fine.

324
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:46,199
All right.

325
00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:48,510
You are ridiculed Yes.

326
00:09:48,510 --> 00:09:49,290
In this business.

327
00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:49,590
Yes.

328
00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:50,790
And here's why though.

329
00:09:51,270 --> 00:09:55,800
I think because we got into
this business by taking someone

330
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,390
else's lunch who was complacent.

331
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:57,660
Yeah.

332
00:09:57,660 --> 00:09:59,670
You know, and I, I said, you
know, I told you ear earlier,

333
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,910
the disruptors, the apex
predators of complacency.

334
00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:03,150
Right.

335
00:10:03,150 --> 00:10:03,330
That's

336
00:10:03,330 --> 00:10:04,050
exactly it.

337
00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:06,840
The reason we're in this
business is because someone

338
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:07,830
else got complacent.

339
00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:08,280
Right.

340
00:10:08,895 --> 00:10:11,595
I think about it like when you
and I grew up in the nineties,

341
00:10:11,685 --> 00:10:14,145
uh, with our businesses, with
the web design businesses,

342
00:10:14,444 --> 00:10:16,245
we watched this happen Yes.

343
00:10:16,245 --> 00:10:17,595
At a massive scale.

344
00:10:17,985 --> 00:10:19,694
What we'd go in, we'd go
in and we'd talk to these

345
00:10:19,694 --> 00:10:22,814
clients, and it was these
40-year-old men, which to me

346
00:10:22,814 --> 00:10:24,045
were like a hundred at the time.

347
00:10:24,255 --> 00:10:26,175
It's funny that they're like
significantly younger than me

348
00:10:26,175 --> 00:10:28,845
now, but like these 40-year-old
men, deer in headlights,

349
00:10:28,845 --> 00:10:29,865
that the internet was coming,

350
00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:30,040
Uhhuh.

351
00:10:31,095 --> 00:10:35,055
I was like, my entire career
and everything that I have

352
00:10:35,055 --> 00:10:38,025
in front of me is based on
the fact that someone like

353
00:10:38,025 --> 00:10:40,275
you got old, fat and happy.

354
00:10:40,545 --> 00:10:40,755
Yep.

355
00:10:40,875 --> 00:10:41,985
And got complacent.

356
00:10:42,105 --> 00:10:42,345
Yep.

357
00:10:42,435 --> 00:10:44,775
And now someone like
us is gonna come in and

358
00:10:44,775 --> 00:10:45,555
eat your lunch for you.

359
00:10:45,555 --> 00:10:45,795
Yes.

360
00:10:45,990 --> 00:10:49,800
Kind of hard to build your
entire career based on that,

361
00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:52,380
not thinking that you're
gonna be the prey next.

362
00:10:52,385 --> 00:10:54,060
Yeah, yeah, that's
exactly right.

363
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,200
That a day goes by.

364
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:55,680
It's about apex.

365
00:10:56,130 --> 00:10:58,260
It doesn't necessarily know
it's the apex predator, right?

366
00:10:58,260 --> 00:10:59,760
You don't know what's, you
don't know what's hiding

367
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,690
behind you in the shadows.

368
00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:03,120
And I think what's interesting
about that is in our

369
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,015
business where everything
turns over so quickly.

370
00:11:06,910 --> 00:11:09,640
You know, the newest thing
replaces the oldest thing.

371
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,729
We are at the epitome
of it right now with ai.

372
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,314
I mean, it's happening so fast.

373
00:11:14,415 --> 00:11:14,635
Yes.

374
00:11:14,655 --> 00:11:14,885
So fast

375
00:11:15,010 --> 00:11:17,319
that even the leaders
don't understand how

376
00:11:17,319 --> 00:11:17,890
to keep up with it.

377
00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:20,560
Like even Sam Altman
from Open AI Chat, GPT

378
00:11:20,619 --> 00:11:20,800
Yeah.

379
00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:22,900
Is like, we're gonna get
eaten by Gemini or Ina

380
00:11:23,020 --> 00:11:24,310
topic or you know, whatever.

381
00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:26,619
And he is like, dude, even
that guy's got the problem.

382
00:11:26,709 --> 00:11:26,800
Right.

383
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,420
And it's his product
that's eating everybody

384
00:11:28,420 --> 00:11:29,469
else's lunch, right?

385
00:11:29,469 --> 00:11:29,709
Like

386
00:11:29,739 --> 00:11:29,920
Yep.

387
00:11:30,430 --> 00:11:31,089
Tells you something.

388
00:11:31,605 --> 00:11:32,295
It's crazy.

389
00:11:32,295 --> 00:11:34,845
And so I, I think we've
got two things happening

390
00:11:34,845 --> 00:11:35,564
at the same time.

391
00:11:35,685 --> 00:11:39,225
One is that we're yearning for
an endpoint, a chapter save,

392
00:11:39,225 --> 00:11:40,454
like a a, a, finished, we

393
00:11:40,454 --> 00:11:41,505
want that dopamine hit.

394
00:11:41,745 --> 00:11:42,015
Yep.

395
00:11:42,105 --> 00:11:42,405
Right.

396
00:11:42,465 --> 00:11:42,765
Right.

397
00:11:42,824 --> 00:11:44,895
And we keep thinking it's
gonna happen, which is,

398
00:11:44,895 --> 00:11:48,345
which starts to build
this compounding anxiety.

399
00:11:48,645 --> 00:11:51,075
At the same time, we're like,
okay, well maybe I'll take a

400
00:11:51,075 --> 00:11:53,595
beat and celebrate the winning
and, and enjoy the moment and

401
00:11:53,595 --> 00:11:55,215
just be glad we're where we are.

402
00:11:55,545 --> 00:11:55,665
Yeah.

403
00:11:55,665 --> 00:11:59,385
And we are constantly
reminded you do that and

404
00:11:59,385 --> 00:12:01,125
the person behind you
is gonna eat your lunch.

405
00:12:01,125 --> 00:12:03,345
It's, it's not a great
recipe for relaxing.

406
00:12:03,435 --> 00:12:04,545
It's not right.

407
00:12:04,545 --> 00:12:07,065
It, it, it can kind of get,
it can kind of get thrown in.

408
00:12:07,095 --> 00:12:09,765
Like, it looks a little bit like
ambition, but I'd argue it's

409
00:12:09,765 --> 00:12:11,685
just paranoia dressed as virtue.

410
00:12:11,895 --> 00:12:12,015
Right.

411
00:12:12,315 --> 00:12:13,230
Like we don't.

412
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:16,099
We don't have to do that
to ourselves, but we do.

413
00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:16,400
Right.

414
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:16,849
Virtue.

415
00:12:17,235 --> 00:12:17,555
I love that.

416
00:12:17,555 --> 00:12:20,719
And I think we, we confuse
content with complacent.

417
00:12:21,199 --> 00:12:23,510
I think there's, I think there
is a situation where we can

418
00:12:23,510 --> 00:12:27,530
absolutely be satisfied with
progress and be content with

419
00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:30,740
progress and not be complacent,
which to me, like it's always,

420
00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:32,420
I've always put with like
being asleep at the wheel.

421
00:12:32,449 --> 00:12:32,704
Right.

422
00:12:32,704 --> 00:12:34,610
It just means you're, you're
no longer reacting anything.

423
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:35,569
You're no longer
thinking about it.

424
00:12:35,569 --> 00:12:36,949
You're just saying
like, it is what it is.

425
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:38,689
And we'll just, we'll
just see what happens.

426
00:12:38,689 --> 00:12:38,839
Right.

427
00:12:38,839 --> 00:12:39,589
We know what happens.

428
00:12:39,589 --> 00:12:39,680
Right.

429
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:41,420
Um, we do get eaten
by somebody else.

430
00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:44,910
And I picture this over and
over and over, I picture

431
00:12:45,150 --> 00:12:48,300
all the big, fat, dumb, and
happy businesses out there

432
00:12:48,390 --> 00:12:48,600
Yep.

433
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,460
That are about to
get eaten next.

434
00:12:50,465 --> 00:12:50,605
Yeah.

435
00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:50,850
Yeah.

436
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,730
Like one for, for some
reason it just sticks

437
00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:54,930
in my mind is TurboTax.

438
00:12:55,964 --> 00:12:58,094
Here is a piece of
software that's still

439
00:12:58,094 --> 00:12:59,865
sold as box software.

440
00:13:00,194 --> 00:13:00,314
Yeah.

441
00:13:00,314 --> 00:13:00,555
You can

442
00:13:00,555 --> 00:13:02,204
still it buy it 90 on it

443
00:13:02,474 --> 00:13:03,224
on a physical disc.

444
00:13:03,255 --> 00:13:03,555
Yeah.

445
00:13:03,584 --> 00:13:03,885
Right.

446
00:13:03,885 --> 00:13:06,765
It's unbelievable
that, that that product

447
00:13:06,765 --> 00:13:07,935
has made it this far.

448
00:13:07,964 --> 00:13:08,115
Mm-hmm.

449
00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:12,765
Now, in an era of ai, that
product makes no sense,

450
00:13:12,765 --> 00:13:13,425
no sense whatsoever.

451
00:13:13,425 --> 00:13:14,834
It couldn't be less intuitive.

452
00:13:14,895 --> 00:13:14,954
Yeah.

453
00:13:14,954 --> 00:13:17,714
Ironically, coming from
Intuit, it could not be less

454
00:13:17,714 --> 00:13:19,875
like a dynamic or updated.

455
00:13:20,265 --> 00:13:20,324
Yeah.

456
00:13:20,324 --> 00:13:20,890
It is slow as shit.

457
00:13:21,395 --> 00:13:22,445
I use it every year, by the way.

458
00:13:22,445 --> 00:13:22,565
Yeah.

459
00:13:22,745 --> 00:13:23,285
And it's, it's

460
00:13:23,285 --> 00:13:24,545
still it every, every year,

461
00:13:24,695 --> 00:13:25,055
right?

462
00:13:25,055 --> 00:13:27,665
I am like, how is this
product still in market?

463
00:13:28,295 --> 00:13:31,355
And I've gotta imagine within
the next 18 months somebody

464
00:13:31,355 --> 00:13:33,455
comes up with something that
just sucks in all your stuff,

465
00:13:33,455 --> 00:13:35,945
figures it all out for you, and
puts in the, the perfect doc.

466
00:13:36,065 --> 00:13:36,905
I don't know how you couldn't.

467
00:13:37,565 --> 00:13:39,665
And I think about that
and I think there's

468
00:13:39,695 --> 00:13:41,645
someone add into it.

469
00:13:41,945 --> 00:13:44,045
That's the, the, you
know, EVP of that product

470
00:13:44,045 --> 00:13:48,305
division, et cetera, that
has gotten paid so much

471
00:13:48,515 --> 00:13:48,815
Yes.

472
00:13:48,815 --> 00:13:49,955
For so long.

473
00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:50,790
Right.

474
00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:53,310
And you know, big,
fat, dumb, and happy.

475
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:53,880
Right.

476
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,849
And all of a sudden, all of
a sudden everything changes.

477
00:13:56,849 --> 00:14:00,719
Now on the one hand, kudos
to that guy for enjoying

478
00:14:00,719 --> 00:14:01,530
the hell out of his career.

479
00:14:02,130 --> 00:14:02,969
Really long of time.

480
00:14:02,969 --> 00:14:04,079
He's probably
lived a great life.

481
00:14:04,349 --> 00:14:04,589
Yeah.

482
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,150
But for the rest of us,
like I am constantly worried

483
00:14:09,209 --> 00:14:11,790
that tomorrow the other shoe
drops and I lose everything.

484
00:14:11,819 --> 00:14:14,610
Like I don't have that,
that moment of arrival.

485
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:15,150
Yeah.

486
00:14:15,150 --> 00:14:17,250
Well, and I think it's
interesting, like even kind

487
00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:19,709
of regardless of where you
are, even if you are like.

488
00:14:20,145 --> 00:14:21,375
Winning, let's say.

489
00:14:21,405 --> 00:14:21,584
Yeah,

490
00:14:21,855 --> 00:14:22,185
right.

491
00:14:22,365 --> 00:14:25,844
In a Darwinian game, even
success can feel a bit like

492
00:14:25,844 --> 00:14:26,685
a countdown time, right?

493
00:14:26,685 --> 00:14:28,485
Like I, I remember there's
times where like, oh, we're

494
00:14:28,485 --> 00:14:30,584
doing well enough now that we
start to gain some notoriety.

495
00:14:30,584 --> 00:14:32,175
Like, sometimes that just
feels like painting a

496
00:14:32,175 --> 00:14:33,100
target on your back, right?

497
00:14:33,314 --> 00:14:33,464
Right.

498
00:14:33,464 --> 00:14:34,694
Now people are gonna come
out, they're gonna try to

499
00:14:34,694 --> 00:14:36,405
copy, they're gonna try to
jump into the market, right?

500
00:14:36,405 --> 00:14:37,545
We saw this with crowdfunding.

501
00:14:37,905 --> 00:14:39,194
Uh, we saw this with
advice networks.

502
00:14:39,194 --> 00:14:42,194
We've seen this happen over
time with some of the businesses

503
00:14:42,194 --> 00:14:45,525
that we've built, and, you
know, it never feels good.

504
00:14:45,715 --> 00:14:45,925
Right.

505
00:14:45,925 --> 00:14:48,145
It never feels good to know
that there, there's somebody

506
00:14:48,325 --> 00:14:50,335
even just know there's somebody
trying to eat your lunch.

507
00:14:50,665 --> 00:14:50,725
Yeah.

508
00:14:50,725 --> 00:14:50,935
Right.

509
00:14:50,935 --> 00:14:53,215
Whether they succeed or
not, it just, there's always

510
00:14:53,215 --> 00:14:55,045
that little bit of fear.

511
00:14:55,905 --> 00:14:57,525
At the back of
your mind that it's

512
00:14:57,645 --> 00:14:57,915
Yeah.

513
00:14:58,155 --> 00:14:59,115
Drives other anxiety, right?

514
00:14:59,115 --> 00:15:01,665
We're we're reaching for,
for dopamine with one hand

515
00:15:01,665 --> 00:15:03,825
and trying to shove back
cortisol with the other.

516
00:15:04,305 --> 00:15:06,675
It's a great recipe for
a long-term healthy life,

517
00:15:07,005 --> 00:15:09,015
and it's interesting because
depending on how you look

518
00:15:09,015 --> 00:15:11,625
at the spectrum of types of
companies that get started

519
00:15:11,625 --> 00:15:12,975
in our world, okay, yeah.

520
00:15:12,975 --> 00:15:14,655
And the one hand
you've got the most.

521
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,210
Innovative companies, and
when I say innovative, I

522
00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:19,520
mean by like high turnover.

523
00:15:19,550 --> 00:15:21,380
The latest and greatest
is changing all the time.

524
00:15:21,380 --> 00:15:21,470
Sure.

525
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:21,740
Right?

526
00:15:21,770 --> 00:15:21,920
Yep.

527
00:15:21,950 --> 00:15:22,550
Exactly.

528
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:25,220
Where like the, the top three
AI companies are right now.

529
00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:25,310
Yep.

530
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:28,100
We're just like, every
day there's a chance that

531
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:29,420
something comes out Yes.

532
00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:30,800
That eliminates your market.

533
00:15:31,010 --> 00:15:31,160
Yep.

534
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,410
On the other end of the
spectrum is a restaurant.

535
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:33,850
Yes.

536
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:34,120
Right.

537
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:36,400
Other than serving shitty pizza.

538
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:36,460
Yeah.

539
00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:38,350
There's nothing that
is going to be made

540
00:15:38,350 --> 00:15:39,730
obsolete in your business.

541
00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:40,000
Right.

542
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:40,900
Anytime soon.

543
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,600
So long as you show up in a good
product, give cus good customer

544
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,770
service, you'll be okay.

545
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:45,370
Right.

546
00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:46,380
Now.

547
00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:49,230
So those folks, I'd like to
believe, other than, you know,

548
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,630
the perils of making payroll,
just the nature of running a

549
00:15:51,630 --> 00:15:53,190
business, maybe sleep better.

550
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,670
But most of the folks that
show up in our world Yeah.

551
00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:58,410
Are more toward the other
end of the spectrum.

552
00:15:58,680 --> 00:15:58,830
Oh, a

553
00:15:58,830 --> 00:15:59,160
hundred percent.

554
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,500
Where their actual entire
business can go away.

555
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:01,560
Yeah.

556
00:16:01,950 --> 00:16:03,300
Like fairly quickly.

557
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:03,810
Fairly quickly.

558
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:05,430
Within a couple
years, sometimes less.

559
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,030
And that becomes a very
hard place to be complace.

560
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:09,090
Yeah,

561
00:16:09,150 --> 00:16:09,420
for sure.

562
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,390
How much do you think that the,
the fact that we are sort of.

563
00:16:12,925 --> 00:16:15,475
Brutalized into chasing metrics.

564
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:16,020
Does, does, yeah.

565
00:16:16,105 --> 00:16:17,305
Does that, how much does
that feed into this?

566
00:16:17,305 --> 00:16:20,905
Because I feel like part of
the startup culture idolizes

567
00:16:20,905 --> 00:16:23,845
grind simply because it's
really easy to measure, right?

568
00:16:23,845 --> 00:16:23,905
Yeah.

569
00:16:23,905 --> 00:16:26,305
It's, it's hard to put
peace on a dashboard,

570
00:16:27,205 --> 00:16:27,295
right?

571
00:16:27,301 --> 00:16:27,535
Yeah.

572
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:27,780
Well, yeah.

573
00:16:27,925 --> 00:16:30,325
What is our inner peace
quotient this month?

574
00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:30,460
Right?

575
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:31,100
Nobody knows.

576
00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:32,180
I gotta tell you, man.

577
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,960
You and I are, you know, pretty
introspective pers people.

578
00:16:35,050 --> 00:16:37,660
And, and I think over the years
we've tried to do a better and

579
00:16:37,660 --> 00:16:39,730
better job of saying like, you
know, where's my happiness?

580
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:41,230
Where's, where's
my contentedness?

581
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,220
And I think for myself,
I've found that my

582
00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:47,950
contentedness has never, ever.

583
00:16:48,245 --> 00:16:49,475
Ever come from my jobing.

584
00:16:49,895 --> 00:16:53,405
Now a sense of validation,
you know, I do something

585
00:16:53,405 --> 00:16:54,395
big or something like that.

586
00:16:54,425 --> 00:16:54,905
Yes.

587
00:16:54,905 --> 00:16:56,585
You know, a, a win, you
and I have been celebrating

588
00:16:56,585 --> 00:16:57,425
all kinds of wins later.

589
00:16:57,425 --> 00:16:57,485
Yeah.

590
00:16:57,575 --> 00:16:58,355
Fucking feels great.

591
00:16:58,715 --> 00:16:59,105
Right?

592
00:16:59,375 --> 00:17:00,695
But I've never been Content.

593
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:01,775
Content, yeah, yeah, yeah.

594
00:17:01,775 --> 00:17:04,095
Content like content is
how I feel about my wife.

595
00:17:05,025 --> 00:17:05,355
Right.

596
00:17:05,565 --> 00:17:05,715
Yeah.

597
00:17:05,715 --> 00:17:07,694
Like I don't want anything
different from her.

598
00:17:07,725 --> 00:17:07,815
Mm-hmm.

599
00:17:08,055 --> 00:17:12,525
Like I am very content with like
where things are in our life and

600
00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:13,815
I don't want things to change.

601
00:17:13,905 --> 00:17:14,985
Like I don't want
anything to change.

602
00:17:14,985 --> 00:17:15,285
Right.

603
00:17:15,705 --> 00:17:16,935
Content is where I
feel with my kids.

604
00:17:16,935 --> 00:17:18,194
I want them to do better
things, but I like

605
00:17:18,194 --> 00:17:19,425
they're incredible kids.

606
00:17:19,425 --> 00:17:19,725
Yeah.

607
00:17:19,965 --> 00:17:21,530
Like that level of contentment.

608
00:17:22,395 --> 00:17:24,194
Just does not
exist in my career.

609
00:17:24,464 --> 00:17:25,395
What is it like for you?

610
00:17:25,395 --> 00:17:26,145
Like how do you see it?

611
00:17:26,444 --> 00:17:28,575
I hadn't thought about it
in that regard, but I think

612
00:17:28,575 --> 00:17:30,105
you're, you're spot on.

613
00:17:30,165 --> 00:17:30,465
Right?

614
00:17:30,465 --> 00:17:32,295
There are things
that make me happy.

615
00:17:32,355 --> 00:17:34,425
There are things that we
celebrate, but in terms of

616
00:17:34,425 --> 00:17:36,735
contentment, again, I think
to some degree it's just

617
00:17:36,735 --> 00:17:38,325
like it's beaten out of you.

618
00:17:38,415 --> 00:17:42,915
We think of slowing down
is equal to death, right?

619
00:17:42,975 --> 00:17:44,025
And so.

620
00:17:44,375 --> 00:17:47,465
It's now making me wonder
how many things I've sought

621
00:17:47,465 --> 00:17:52,655
out outside of, outside of
work that do have like a, a

622
00:17:52,655 --> 00:17:55,925
sense of completion so that I
can achieve some contentment

623
00:17:55,925 --> 00:17:58,445
in life that doesn't come
from this thing that we

624
00:17:58,445 --> 00:17:59,765
spend most of our day doing.

625
00:18:00,185 --> 00:18:00,725
That's interesting.

626
00:18:00,725 --> 00:18:01,745
But now I think I'm probably.

627
00:18:02,565 --> 00:18:07,485
Pretty much same page, which
is that, yeah, I'm not content.

628
00:18:07,485 --> 00:18:09,135
There's always some other thing.

629
00:18:09,135 --> 00:18:10,155
There's some other way.

630
00:18:10,155 --> 00:18:14,865
There's always more or better
or faster or cheaper, or there's

631
00:18:14,925 --> 00:18:18,585
some, there's always one more
dial you can adjust, right?

632
00:18:18,735 --> 00:18:21,225
There is this, it's a
dashboard with an endless

633
00:18:21,225 --> 00:18:23,055
number of buttons that can
be pushed and optimized.

634
00:18:23,295 --> 00:18:24,330
You know, something
that's really.

635
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,700
Funny about everything
we talk about here is

636
00:18:27,700 --> 00:18:29,470
that none of it is new.

637
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,260
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a

638
00:18:32,260 --> 00:18:36,100
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.

639
00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:37,990
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.

640
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:40,180
That's kind of what
we're here to do.

641
00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:42,820
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually

642
00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:44,350
solve these problems all

643
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:46,960
dayLong@groups.startups.com.

644
00:18:47,020 --> 00:18:50,320
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing

645
00:18:50,379 --> 00:18:51,370
about what to do.

646
00:18:51,450 --> 00:18:54,870
Let us just give you the answers
to the test and be done with it.

647
00:18:55,470 --> 00:18:56,400
I've always traded.

648
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,240
Need to get it with,
don't wanna lose it.

649
00:18:59,010 --> 00:18:59,160
Yeah.

650
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:02,100
So like for me, like I remember
specifically, I've told you this

651
00:19:02,100 --> 00:19:04,740
story before, but like when I
was, my dates are all getting

652
00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:06,060
messed up, let's say 25, right?

653
00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:06,270
Sure.

654
00:19:06,450 --> 00:19:08,610
And I go to the, the car
dealership and I bought

655
00:19:08,610 --> 00:19:10,020
a red Lamborghini, right?

656
00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:12,150
And I remember, I, I go to
the finance manager in the

657
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:15,780
back room and he slides me
the, the payment and it's

658
00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:18,450
like $6,000 a month Uhhuh.

659
00:19:18,451 --> 00:19:18,461
Okay?

660
00:19:18,780 --> 00:19:21,630
My mortgage was $1,500
a month at the time.

661
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:22,230
Right?

662
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:23,220
So to give you an idea

663
00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:23,490
adds

664
00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:25,410
up of this, of
this delta, right?

665
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,540
That checks out in, in
retrospect, what's that?

666
00:19:27,945 --> 00:19:28,905
That checks out.

667
00:19:28,905 --> 00:19:29,205
I, it totally

668
00:19:29,505 --> 00:19:29,895
makes sense.

669
00:19:29,925 --> 00:19:30,045
Yeah.

670
00:19:30,045 --> 00:19:30,055
Right.

671
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,315
In retrospect, I think maybe
$2,000 of that was principled.

672
00:19:33,315 --> 00:19:35,085
The other $4,000
was finance fee.

673
00:19:35,145 --> 00:19:35,325
Yeah.

674
00:19:35,355 --> 00:19:37,305
Because they were like, dude,
if this idiot pays this,

675
00:19:37,455 --> 00:19:37,665
yes.

676
00:19:37,665 --> 00:19:39,615
Even if we get paid for two
months, we're gonna make money.

677
00:19:40,155 --> 00:19:40,215
Huh.

678
00:19:40,215 --> 00:19:43,245
Anyway, while I was doing the
paperwork, the only thing I was

679
00:19:43,245 --> 00:19:45,595
thinking was this will last for.

680
00:19:46,304 --> 00:19:48,975
A month, two months
before someone comes and

681
00:19:48,975 --> 00:19:50,175
repossess this vehicle.

682
00:19:50,264 --> 00:19:50,325
Yeah.

683
00:19:50,325 --> 00:19:51,314
And it gets taken away from me.

684
00:19:51,314 --> 00:19:53,925
Like, there's just no way a guy
like me, like will get, and, and

685
00:19:53,925 --> 00:19:55,304
that was a very serious thought.

686
00:19:55,304 --> 00:19:57,195
That wasn't like, like
a flippant ha ha, but

687
00:19:57,195 --> 00:19:57,945
I don't really mean it.

688
00:19:57,945 --> 00:19:59,475
Uh, I absolutely meant it.

689
00:20:00,284 --> 00:20:02,264
It's like, yeah, there's no
way there's staying around.

690
00:20:02,504 --> 00:20:05,085
And like every time in my
life when something went

691
00:20:05,085 --> 00:20:08,115
well, my first thought
is I'm gonna lose it.

692
00:20:08,564 --> 00:20:08,865
Uhhuh.

693
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:08,919
Right?

694
00:20:08,955 --> 00:20:11,955
Like the, when I look
back, I never have.

695
00:20:12,645 --> 00:20:13,035
That's weird.

696
00:20:13,095 --> 00:20:13,995
I never really
thought about that.

697
00:20:14,295 --> 00:20:15,375
Yeah, like I never actually
did lose something.

698
00:20:15,525 --> 00:20:17,085
Maybe because I was so paranoid.

699
00:20:17,175 --> 00:20:17,655
Maybe.

700
00:20:17,835 --> 00:20:19,665
Or maybe that's just
not how it works.

701
00:20:19,935 --> 00:20:20,595
But how about this?

702
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,250
How about spend the next
couple of months, try not

703
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:25,950
to be paranoid and see if
everything gets taken away.

704
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,600
And then if it does,
then you'll, then

705
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:28,320
you'll know for sure.

706
00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:30,270
I am so hard coded
on this one, man.

707
00:20:30,270 --> 00:20:33,090
I like, so, you know, a lot
of times we give people like

708
00:20:33,090 --> 00:20:35,310
life advice or you know,
startup advice, et cetera.

709
00:20:35,310 --> 00:20:35,370
Yeah.

710
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:36,000
But.

711
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,460
I dunno about you, but I
often tell people, here's my

712
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:41,050
experience, here's my bias.

713
00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:42,100
And guess what?

714
00:20:42,340 --> 00:20:43,780
What worked for me or
didn't work for me?

715
00:20:43,780 --> 00:20:44,740
Has nothing to do with you.

716
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:45,070
Just you.

717
00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:45,129
Yeah,

718
00:20:45,129 --> 00:20:45,610
exactly.

719
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:46,570
Take with us what you will.

720
00:20:46,570 --> 00:20:47,379
Don't use it verbatim.

721
00:20:47,649 --> 00:20:47,740
Yeah.

722
00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:50,860
And I always tell people, I'm
like, A lot of what made things

723
00:20:50,860 --> 00:20:54,429
work for me are behaviors I'd
highly recommend not pursuing.

724
00:20:54,639 --> 00:20:54,879
Yeah.

725
00:20:54,879 --> 00:20:55,480
That's the thing.

726
00:20:55,659 --> 00:20:56,200
That's a thing.

727
00:20:56,260 --> 00:20:56,679
Yeah.

728
00:20:56,770 --> 00:20:58,629
When I look back at the
trajectory, they're like, so

729
00:20:58,899 --> 00:21:00,970
what was your path to this
like, and I'm like, let me

730
00:21:00,970 --> 00:21:03,220
not tell you 'cause I don't
want you to try to repeat it.

731
00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:03,615
There are easier.

732
00:21:03,620 --> 00:21:03,909
Easier please ways.

733
00:21:04,525 --> 00:21:06,685
Getting and doing the thing
that you wanna do than, than

734
00:21:06,685 --> 00:21:08,695
what I did before we move on.

735
00:21:08,965 --> 00:21:14,875
How do we stay hungry without
making our team live with

736
00:21:14,875 --> 00:21:16,885
like perpetual scarcity brain?

737
00:21:16,885 --> 00:21:17,875
Let's just pretend for a minute.

738
00:21:17,875 --> 00:21:18,985
We can't avoid it as founders.

739
00:21:18,985 --> 00:21:20,425
Like it is just, we're,
we're stuck with it.

740
00:21:20,905 --> 00:21:23,635
How do we keep that from
becoming pervasive in

741
00:21:23,755 --> 00:21:24,685
the, in the organization?

742
00:21:25,135 --> 00:21:26,605
You know, it's interesting, man.

743
00:21:26,965 --> 00:21:30,325
I don't know if everyone
else feels the same way.

744
00:21:30,355 --> 00:21:32,725
I don't, I, I, like,
I haven't seen it.

745
00:21:33,105 --> 00:21:35,745
At like a persistent
level over 30 years.

746
00:21:35,955 --> 00:21:36,255
Right.

747
00:21:36,465 --> 00:21:37,875
And I think it's because
for a lot of other

748
00:21:37,875 --> 00:21:38,685
people it's just a job.

749
00:21:39,105 --> 00:21:39,165
Yeah.

750
00:21:39,165 --> 00:21:39,255
Right.

751
00:21:39,255 --> 00:21:41,445
It's kinda what we said before,
like, Hey, if this doesn't

752
00:21:41,445 --> 00:21:43,185
work out, it would suck that
I have to get another job,

753
00:21:43,185 --> 00:21:44,115
but I can get another job.

754
00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:47,520
So like everyone's worried
about losing their job, but

755
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,640
at the same time, we've talked
about this before, they don't

756
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,910
have the liability of losing
everyone else's job too.

757
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:55,410
Like you and I talk about
this all the time, like

758
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,990
even in our own company,
like if we make mistakes,

759
00:21:58,290 --> 00:21:59,610
it costs everyone their job.

760
00:22:00,255 --> 00:22:01,215
Right, not just us.

761
00:22:01,425 --> 00:22:04,335
That's a way different
like level of anxiety to

762
00:22:04,335 --> 00:22:06,585
live with than just having
to deal with yourself.

763
00:22:06,915 --> 00:22:10,065
Also, like if you're on
payroll, let's say right at

764
00:22:10,065 --> 00:22:13,335
whatever company and you did
what you're supposed to do,

765
00:22:13,575 --> 00:22:17,085
you get high fived and you
go home, you can reasonably

766
00:22:17,085 --> 00:22:18,345
expect to get paid next week.

767
00:22:18,675 --> 00:22:18,765
Yeah.

768
00:22:18,765 --> 00:22:18,915
Right?

769
00:22:18,915 --> 00:22:20,985
Like again, unless you've
done, you're a salesperson.

770
00:22:21,315 --> 00:22:22,785
If you're a salesperson,
you're hitting your quota.

771
00:22:23,115 --> 00:22:25,125
You can reasonably expect,
I mean, yeah, and I say

772
00:22:25,125 --> 00:22:26,085
that because it's numeric.

773
00:22:26,145 --> 00:22:27,585
You can look at it and
say, Hey, you know, I did

774
00:22:27,585 --> 00:22:29,325
exactly what you said and
I'm gonna get paid, whatever.

775
00:22:29,805 --> 00:22:31,875
But founders don't really
get that, that luxury.

776
00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:34,800
We could do everything
right and still get the, the

777
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,670
rug pulled out from under.

778
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:37,770
It happens like every
frigging day, right?

779
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:40,050
Like, like people think,
oh, you're your own boss.

780
00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:41,790
They're like, no, I just get
fired for different reasons.

781
00:22:41,910 --> 00:22:42,570
Yeah, right.

782
00:22:43,139 --> 00:22:43,889
It's not that easy.

783
00:22:43,950 --> 00:22:44,190
Yeah.

784
00:22:44,399 --> 00:22:45,990
And we gonna have
to fire myself.

785
00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:46,320
Right?

786
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,129
Even worse.

787
00:22:47,550 --> 00:22:48,780
So what do we do
about all this, man?

788
00:22:48,810 --> 00:22:50,670
How do we feel better
about all this?

789
00:22:50,730 --> 00:22:53,580
What we offer a little ray
of sunshine for founders.

790
00:22:53,585 --> 00:22:53,815
Okay.

791
00:22:53,815 --> 00:22:53,895
So.

792
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,510
The first time it happened for
me, the first time that, that

793
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:59,610
I felt a sense of completion.

794
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:00,240
Mm,

795
00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:01,920
had nothing to do
with work whatsoever.

796
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,710
So when I was traveling
back and forth between

797
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:06,630
Columbus and uh, la.

798
00:23:07,215 --> 00:23:09,135
I was, uh, back at
the house in Columbus.

799
00:23:09,405 --> 00:23:11,085
We had, and you already know
the story, so I'm telling

800
00:23:11,085 --> 00:23:13,695
the audience, we had this,
uh, three car garage at our

801
00:23:13,695 --> 00:23:14,955
house that was totally empty.

802
00:23:14,955 --> 00:23:17,115
Like it was, it was nothing
but, uh, studs in plywood.

803
00:23:17,595 --> 00:23:19,814
And I went in there and I, I,
one weekend, for some reason,

804
00:23:19,814 --> 00:23:22,155
I had it in me that I wanted to
build a, a workbench in there.

805
00:23:22,754 --> 00:23:24,855
I remember, I don't know
why I did this first, but

806
00:23:24,855 --> 00:23:26,415
it was genius in retrospect.

807
00:23:26,895 --> 00:23:29,324
I put like an old
flat screen tv.

808
00:23:29,595 --> 00:23:31,304
It's funny, I'm calling
it flat screen tv.

809
00:23:33,135 --> 00:23:34,665
What was it gonna put
a tube TV up there?

810
00:23:35,115 --> 00:23:36,135
Was it plasma?

811
00:23:37,215 --> 00:23:39,675
Anyway, so anyway, so I, I put
it up there and I hooked it

812
00:23:39,675 --> 00:23:42,225
up to the internet so I could
have YouTube and I was watching

813
00:23:42,314 --> 00:23:44,745
a YouTube guy show like how
to build a certain kind of

814
00:23:44,745 --> 00:23:46,784
workbench uhhuh, and I was
just following along, right?

815
00:23:46,784 --> 00:23:46,875
Yep.

816
00:23:46,875 --> 00:23:48,915
Again, I, I was handy,
but I wasn't a carpenter.

817
00:23:49,334 --> 00:23:51,074
And so after I built
the bench and I'd spent

818
00:23:51,074 --> 00:23:51,975
like four days doing it.

819
00:23:52,815 --> 00:23:55,815
I was like, huh, it's done.

820
00:23:56,115 --> 00:23:56,325
Yep.

821
00:23:56,385 --> 00:23:58,665
Like I worked really hard
on something that I cared

822
00:23:58,665 --> 00:24:01,155
about, but it's actually done.

823
00:24:01,155 --> 00:24:01,245
Yes.

824
00:24:02,535 --> 00:24:05,505
And it was this weird feeling
that I had never had before,

825
00:24:06,105 --> 00:24:07,365
which was called completion.

826
00:24:07,635 --> 00:24:08,025
Yeah.

827
00:24:08,235 --> 00:24:10,395
And I say like a lot of
times I'll talk to founders

828
00:24:10,395 --> 00:24:12,975
and they'll say, yeah, this
weekend I just like cleaned

829
00:24:12,975 --> 00:24:14,925
up my yard or cleaned
up my house or whatever.

830
00:24:14,985 --> 00:24:16,365
And they're like, I
just needed to do it.

831
00:24:16,515 --> 00:24:18,195
And I was like, there's
a reason for that.

832
00:24:18,615 --> 00:24:18,735
Yes.

833
00:24:18,735 --> 00:24:21,075
Your mind needed to
complete something.

834
00:24:21,285 --> 00:24:23,505
You needed to, to to
take order to chaos.

835
00:24:23,655 --> 00:24:26,745
And I think that action,
cleaning your living room or

836
00:24:26,745 --> 00:24:28,335
gardening or whatever Yeah.

837
00:24:28,335 --> 00:24:30,045
Was something you
could actually finish.

838
00:24:30,195 --> 00:24:30,555
Yes.

839
00:24:31,170 --> 00:24:32,910
And it brings a
sense of completion.

840
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,040
And dude, as you know.

841
00:24:35,415 --> 00:24:37,455
Once I started, the
irony is that I never,

842
00:24:37,455 --> 00:24:38,535
it never ended, right?

843
00:24:38,535 --> 00:24:40,785
Like after that I just like
never stopped doing carpentry.

844
00:24:40,935 --> 00:24:41,295
Yeah.

845
00:24:41,385 --> 00:24:44,565
You turned that completion into
a never ending train of other

846
00:24:44,565 --> 00:24:46,935
completions, but there's a
bunch of completions in there.

847
00:24:46,935 --> 00:24:47,265
At least

848
00:24:47,505 --> 00:24:48,945
when you and I were working
together, it'd be like a

849
00:24:48,945 --> 00:24:50,505
year or two ago, and we
were like building drawers,

850
00:24:50,505 --> 00:24:51,255
I think for For the house.

851
00:24:51,255 --> 00:24:51,525
Yeah.

852
00:24:51,945 --> 00:24:52,545
It was cool.

853
00:24:52,575 --> 00:24:52,785
Right.

854
00:24:52,785 --> 00:24:54,015
At the end of the day,
we had a whole stack

855
00:24:54,015 --> 00:24:54,675
of drawers everywhere.

856
00:24:54,675 --> 00:24:56,115
We had 64 drawers.

857
00:24:56,145 --> 00:24:56,355
Yeah.

858
00:24:56,355 --> 00:24:58,050
I was like, we made
some drawers today.

859
00:24:58,685 --> 00:25:00,125
And it's like in, in
the drawers, there's

860
00:25:00,125 --> 00:25:00,905
a freaking drawer.

861
00:25:00,905 --> 00:25:04,175
But the point is like it
felt so they're done unusual.

862
00:25:04,175 --> 00:25:04,264
They're

863
00:25:04,325 --> 00:25:04,595
right.

864
00:25:04,625 --> 00:25:07,325
You don't ever have to build
those 64 drawers again.

865
00:25:07,415 --> 00:25:07,625
Well,

866
00:25:07,625 --> 00:25:09,395
and it was tactile, right?

867
00:25:09,514 --> 00:25:09,575
Yeah.

868
00:25:09,754 --> 00:25:12,605
I remember Jamie Simoff, you,
the, the, the founder of Ring

869
00:25:12,845 --> 00:25:15,125
told me, he's like, I've never
built something that prior

870
00:25:15,125 --> 00:25:16,415
to this kid in six companies.

871
00:25:16,625 --> 00:25:18,335
He's like, I've never built
something prior to that.

872
00:25:18,335 --> 00:25:19,325
It was ever in a landfill.

873
00:25:19,715 --> 00:25:19,895
Right.

874
00:25:19,895 --> 00:25:21,185
Which I always thought was
an interesting like way

875
00:25:21,185 --> 00:25:21,935
to describe his product.

876
00:25:21,935 --> 00:25:22,504
That is interesting.

877
00:25:22,774 --> 00:25:24,155
But he is like, I never
had something physical

878
00:25:24,155 --> 00:25:25,024
that could be thrown away.

879
00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:25,385
Yeah.

880
00:25:25,415 --> 00:25:26,145
There's something to that.

881
00:25:26,804 --> 00:25:29,205
But I think there's, yeah, from
a, from a business perspective,

882
00:25:29,205 --> 00:25:30,945
I think that's absolutely true.

883
00:25:31,335 --> 00:25:33,314
And, you know, completion
is such a, it's a

884
00:25:33,314 --> 00:25:35,564
psychological nutrient, right?

885
00:25:35,835 --> 00:25:36,014
Yeah.

886
00:25:36,014 --> 00:25:38,504
Without it, I get
twitchy, irritable, right?

887
00:25:38,625 --> 00:25:41,024
Compulsive I, I'll go
looking for something to

888
00:25:41,024 --> 00:25:42,105
go just to complete, right?

889
00:25:42,105 --> 00:25:42,705
I think that's what it is.

890
00:25:42,705 --> 00:25:43,784
Like, I'm gonna
go clean the room.

891
00:25:43,784 --> 00:25:44,264
I'm go do this.

892
00:25:44,595 --> 00:25:48,615
One of the things I realized
that I started to do was not

893
00:25:48,615 --> 00:25:51,585
only did I want things that,
that had completion to them,

894
00:25:52,064 --> 00:25:53,625
but that were sort of like.

895
00:25:53,875 --> 00:25:57,715
Monuments or some in some way
memorialized things, right?

896
00:25:57,715 --> 00:25:57,804
Mm-hmm.

897
00:25:57,804 --> 00:26:00,445
So like the, you know,
building the playhouse

898
00:26:00,445 --> 00:26:01,254
for the kids, right?

899
00:26:01,254 --> 00:26:03,355
Has a completion and
it's, then it's there.

900
00:26:03,355 --> 00:26:04,794
I see the damn thing, right?

901
00:26:04,794 --> 00:26:05,935
I watch them play in it.

902
00:26:05,935 --> 00:26:06,595
They enjoy it.

903
00:26:06,895 --> 00:26:09,715
The, the chicken coops,
guests physical, I can see it.

904
00:26:09,715 --> 00:26:11,064
There's a whole, there's
an ecosystem that

905
00:26:11,064 --> 00:26:11,754
gets built around it.

906
00:26:12,085 --> 00:26:13,435
The pond, right?

907
00:26:13,435 --> 00:26:14,784
I walk and I can sit by it.

908
00:26:14,784 --> 00:26:17,814
So it wasn't just that I
needed completion, I actually

909
00:26:17,814 --> 00:26:19,975
really enjoyed when I had
something I completed.

910
00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:20,970
That.

911
00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:23,820
Then I could also like go and
just be near like, so there's

912
00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:26,400
a constant reminder essentially
of the completion, right?

913
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,010
It's like I needed it to be just
pasted there in front of me.

914
00:26:29,010 --> 00:26:30,360
It was like, yeah, you did that.

915
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:30,810
It's done.

916
00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:31,680
Now you're okay.

917
00:26:32,220 --> 00:26:35,460
Well, I tell you what though,
what it unlocked for me was

918
00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:38,760
realizing that the lack of
completion was an issue.

919
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,190
Again, up until that point,
I'm like, by the time I

920
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:43,080
start doing this, I'm like
20 years into my career.

921
00:26:43,170 --> 00:26:43,410
Yeah,

922
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:45,540
and I remember like a
little bit prior to that,

923
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:46,500
we had launched fundable.

924
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:49,290
So just you, you kind of
timestamped that for you.

925
00:26:49,770 --> 00:26:51,510
I remember the day we
launched fundable, it

926
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:53,879
was May 22nd, uh, 2012.

927
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,210
Yep.

928
00:26:54,330 --> 00:26:59,010
And it was such a run to
get to that milestone.

929
00:26:59,310 --> 00:26:59,670
Right.

930
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,010
And, you know, we just
went through, uh, endless

931
00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:02,760
hell to get there.

932
00:27:03,030 --> 00:27:05,370
But I remember the day
we launched it, it was

933
00:27:05,370 --> 00:27:07,139
like this, this muffled.

934
00:27:07,860 --> 00:27:09,595
Scream, Uhhuh, and
then that was it.

935
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,480
And then like, it
was so uneventful.

936
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:12,540
Yeah.

937
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:14,370
It was so incredibly uneventful.

938
00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:16,530
And now nothing happened.

939
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:17,160
Nothing wrong.

940
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:18,150
Right.

941
00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:21,240
And like a lot of what we
do is particularly, you

942
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,100
know, in startups and web
startups and stuff like that,

943
00:27:23,490 --> 00:27:27,960
has so little like, like
visceral completion to it.

944
00:27:28,290 --> 00:27:28,500
Yep.

945
00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:31,860
And even the wins just
don't feel like anything.

946
00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:34,440
I remember years ago hearing
Mark Cuban talk about when he

947
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,400
sold broadcast.com and he got
a a billion dollars wired into

948
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,480
his bank account, so to speak.

949
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:39,540
Yeah.

950
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,420
And he said it was the
most unfulfilling thing

951
00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:43,050
you could imagine.

952
00:27:43,050 --> 00:27:45,330
He's like, I just sat there
hitting the refresh button

953
00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:47,550
over and over and over on
my browser until it hit.

954
00:27:47,850 --> 00:27:49,530
And when it did, I was like.

955
00:27:49,949 --> 00:27:50,250
Huh.

956
00:27:50,639 --> 00:27:51,149
Now what do I do?

957
00:27:51,155 --> 00:27:52,770
And, and that's a
billion dollars, dude.

958
00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:53,040
Right?

959
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,290
Like, I mean, it doesn't
get bigger than that.

960
00:27:55,290 --> 00:27:56,850
And I hear this all the time.

961
00:27:57,030 --> 00:27:57,270
Yeah.

962
00:27:57,419 --> 00:28:01,500
It's very possible to work on
something that just doesn't

963
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,560
give completion or fulfillment
the way we expect it to.

964
00:28:04,889 --> 00:28:04,979
Yeah.

965
00:28:04,979 --> 00:28:06,750
And dude, we spend an awful
lot of hours working on

966
00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:08,489
something that, that doesn't
give us that, you know?

967
00:28:08,705 --> 00:28:09,995
Yeah, it's tough.

968
00:28:09,995 --> 00:28:13,325
And I mean, startups really
just don't give closure.

969
00:28:13,355 --> 00:28:14,420
It's not part of what Right.

970
00:28:14,420 --> 00:28:16,115
They, what they're
able to provide.

971
00:28:16,115 --> 00:28:17,260
They provide a lot of other
things, but you need it, I

972
00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:18,095
guess we have to figure out.

973
00:28:18,095 --> 00:28:18,365
Right.

974
00:28:18,365 --> 00:28:20,735
So to me, the startups
are the engine.

975
00:28:20,735 --> 00:28:21,005
Right.

976
00:28:21,005 --> 00:28:22,295
They're the things
that constantly moving.

977
00:28:22,295 --> 00:28:25,325
Our life has to be those,
those kind of stop points and

978
00:28:25,325 --> 00:28:28,260
provide that for us because
if nothing ever ends, like

979
00:28:28,385 --> 00:28:29,615
we never get to exhale.

980
00:28:29,675 --> 00:28:30,005
Right?

981
00:28:30,005 --> 00:28:30,275
Right.

982
00:28:30,275 --> 00:28:31,380
Our poor brains,
our body's just.

983
00:28:31,730 --> 00:28:32,330
All of it.

984
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:32,630
Right.

985
00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:35,900
And to me, like completion isn't
luxury, it's it's maintenance.

986
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:36,830
We do need it.

987
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:37,460
Yep.

988
00:28:37,460 --> 00:28:39,320
To your point, like you didn't
know that you needed it and then

989
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,810
you, then you felt it and you're
like, oh yeah, that was good.

990
00:28:41,810 --> 00:28:42,110
Right.

991
00:28:42,350 --> 00:28:42,890
And so,

992
00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:43,250
right.

993
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,950
I can come in and come in
all kinds of forms, right?

994
00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:48,890
Like for me, cooking a
meal, I love the process.

995
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:50,330
I love the creation of it.

996
00:28:50,330 --> 00:28:51,830
I love every bit of it.

997
00:28:52,649 --> 00:28:54,060
But it also has an end.

998
00:28:54,095 --> 00:28:54,445
Right?

999
00:28:54,449 --> 00:28:54,600
Right.

1000
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,399
There's also, you know,
sometimes there's a day or

1001
00:28:56,399 --> 00:28:59,070
two of it left over in the
fridge, but, um, there's,

1002
00:28:59,070 --> 00:28:59,820
there's an end to it.

1003
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,960
Finishing a workout.

1004
00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:01,470
Awesome.

1005
00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:01,980
Right.

1006
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:04,649
Going on a hike, writing
something we can publish and

1007
00:29:04,649 --> 00:29:06,840
walk away from cool woodworking.

1008
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:07,260
Right.

1009
00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:08,370
And so, yeah.

1010
00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:11,129
To me the magic isn't the
hobby itself, it's the

1011
00:29:11,129 --> 00:29:12,179
definitive finish line.

1012
00:29:12,270 --> 00:29:12,480
Right.

1013
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,929
The fact that there is a,
like, there it was, we did it.

1014
00:29:15,495 --> 00:29:16,485
I think it's two stages.

1015
00:29:16,575 --> 00:29:19,875
One stage is recognizing
that our work doesn't have

1016
00:29:20,055 --> 00:29:21,435
that fulfillment moment.

1017
00:29:21,945 --> 00:29:22,005
Yeah.

1018
00:29:22,005 --> 00:29:22,155
Right.

1019
00:29:22,305 --> 00:29:25,665
That completion, it's done,
it's eternal kind of moment.

1020
00:29:25,905 --> 00:29:27,555
It's not that like, you know,
people like, go, well you,

1021
00:29:27,555 --> 00:29:29,475
you built and sold a company,
or something like that.

1022
00:29:29,775 --> 00:29:32,055
I'm gonna tell you that way less
rewarding than you think it is.

1023
00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:35,265
And, and I, and I hate when
people say stuff about like,

1024
00:29:35,415 --> 00:29:37,455
like Mark Cuban, you know,
getting a billion dollars and

1025
00:29:37,455 --> 00:29:38,355
saying it was unfulfilling.

1026
00:29:38,355 --> 00:29:39,435
It's like, fuck you, mark Cuban.

1027
00:29:39,705 --> 00:29:40,005
Right?

1028
00:29:40,185 --> 00:29:40,245
Yeah.

1029
00:29:40,245 --> 00:29:41,055
But he's not wrong.

1030
00:29:41,570 --> 00:29:42,169
He's not wrong.

1031
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:42,350
Right.

1032
00:29:42,350 --> 00:29:43,459
I don't feel bad for the guy.

1033
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:43,760
Yeah.

1034
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,110
And he's not saying
feel bad for me.

1035
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:46,399
He's, his point is,

1036
00:29:46,459 --> 00:29:46,909
his point is,

1037
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:47,270
dude

1038
00:29:47,389 --> 00:29:48,709
didn't do what I
thought it would do.

1039
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:49,340
Yeah.

1040
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:51,139
Like, how is that possible?

1041
00:29:51,199 --> 00:29:53,240
Like, he's like, I, I see
it the same way you do, and

1042
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,139
I still can't believe it.

1043
00:29:54,350 --> 00:29:54,560
Yep.

1044
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:57,649
So I look at it and I say,
man, the first step, I wish I

1045
00:29:57,649 --> 00:29:59,179
had known this 30 years ago.

1046
00:29:59,389 --> 00:30:02,149
The first step is recognizing
that we're in a business.

1047
00:30:02,804 --> 00:30:04,665
That doesn't have completion.

1048
00:30:04,665 --> 00:30:05,235
Milestones.

1049
00:30:05,504 --> 00:30:05,745
Yes.

1050
00:30:05,745 --> 00:30:08,145
It doesn't have full
like finalized, right?

1051
00:30:08,145 --> 00:30:08,534
It's done.

1052
00:30:08,534 --> 00:30:08,955
It's done.

1053
00:30:08,955 --> 00:30:10,215
We don't have to
do that ever again.

1054
00:30:10,455 --> 00:30:12,435
You raise round of capital
the moment you're done,

1055
00:30:12,524 --> 00:30:14,595
you gotta be back out
raising more capital, right?

1056
00:30:14,655 --> 00:30:15,794
You hire another employee.

1057
00:30:15,885 --> 00:30:18,435
The moment you do that, you now
have another liability that you

1058
00:30:18,435 --> 00:30:21,794
have to go service with more
revenue, like it never ends.

1059
00:30:22,575 --> 00:30:27,105
Now, if that's the case and your
work doesn't have, you know,

1060
00:30:27,105 --> 00:30:31,845
that kind of final completion,
relax, you still need that.

1061
00:30:32,295 --> 00:30:32,445
Yeah,

1062
00:30:32,445 --> 00:30:32,595
for sure.

1063
00:30:32,595 --> 00:30:34,275
You're just not gonna
get it from work.

1064
00:30:34,755 --> 00:30:37,215
And that's what never
occurred to me, Ryan.

1065
00:30:37,215 --> 00:30:39,135
It never occurred to
me that like, I need

1066
00:30:39,135 --> 00:30:40,785
that That was one Yeah.

1067
00:30:40,785 --> 00:30:41,325
In second.

1068
00:30:41,535 --> 00:30:42,975
And it wouldn't come from work.

1069
00:30:42,980 --> 00:30:43,290
Right.

1070
00:30:44,415 --> 00:30:48,045
Once I put those two together,
I mean, my paranoia isn't

1071
00:30:48,045 --> 00:30:49,274
gone, but like, yeah.

1072
00:30:49,335 --> 00:30:52,395
But, but man, when I'm doing,

1073
00:30:52,399 --> 00:30:54,315
but, but it gets at least a
little bit of a rest period

1074
00:30:54,465 --> 00:30:57,165
when I'm doing fulfillment
work, and that is straight

1075
00:30:57,165 --> 00:30:59,115
up hardcore labor, right?

1076
00:30:59,115 --> 00:31:00,585
Yeah, that's, that's me
building stuff, you know?

1077
00:31:00,585 --> 00:31:00,645
Yeah.

1078
00:31:00,645 --> 00:31:01,695
Just being an insane carpenter.

1079
00:31:02,205 --> 00:31:07,455
I do it more so than anything
because I love being done.

1080
00:31:07,860 --> 00:31:10,860
This past weekend I was building
a catwalk of all weird things.

1081
00:31:10,860 --> 00:31:11,040
Right.

1082
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,360
You know, like the
catwalk is my living room.

1083
00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:12,600
Yes.

1084
00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:14,400
And I was doing like
all the trim pieces.

1085
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:15,420
It sucked.

1086
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,910
I actually don't, don't
enjoy doing that whatsoever.

1087
00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:18,180
Yeah.

1088
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:20,100
But when it was done,
it looked badass.

1089
00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:20,400
Yeah.

1090
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,030
It looked awesome.

1091
00:31:21,035 --> 00:31:21,335
Right.

1092
00:31:21,435 --> 00:31:21,935
And, and it's

1093
00:31:22,215 --> 00:31:22,255
complete.

1094
00:31:22,255 --> 00:31:22,375
Yeah.

1095
00:31:22,375 --> 00:31:23,220
Man, I Right.

1096
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:25,140
I was like, it felt so complete.

1097
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,920
Also, particularly in this case,
when I'm building something that

1098
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,120
I know could be there forever.

1099
00:31:30,705 --> 00:31:32,685
That has like an
incredible field.

1100
00:31:32,715 --> 00:31:32,985
Yes.

1101
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,815
That's that, that's what I
was getting at before, right?

1102
00:31:34,815 --> 00:31:35,895
It's memorialized, right?

1103
00:31:35,895 --> 00:31:35,955
Yeah.

1104
00:31:35,955 --> 00:31:37,875
Like I did this thing and
I'll be able to look at this.

1105
00:31:37,875 --> 00:31:40,815
I'll be able to run my hand
along that trim work forever.

1106
00:31:40,815 --> 00:31:41,325
Exactly.

1107
00:31:41,685 --> 00:31:43,545
And, and to that end, like, you
know, these are, these are all

1108
00:31:43,545 --> 00:31:46,514
little things and I think one
of the challenges that I had

1109
00:31:46,545 --> 00:31:49,284
early on when I was trying to
figure all this out was that.

1110
00:31:49,949 --> 00:31:53,879
I kept looking for things that
would have a completion that

1111
00:31:53,879 --> 00:31:56,850
was equal to the whole, that
was left by sort of the, the

1112
00:31:56,850 --> 00:31:58,080
lack of it in the startup.

1113
00:31:58,350 --> 00:31:58,500
Oh,

1114
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:58,679
yeah.

1115
00:31:58,679 --> 00:31:58,860
Right.

1116
00:31:58,860 --> 00:31:59,820
In like a single event.

1117
00:31:59,820 --> 00:32:00,720
Love that, right?

1118
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,064
Yeah, yeah,

1119
00:32:01,064 --> 00:32:01,264
yeah.

1120
00:32:01,270 --> 00:32:03,750
Like, okay, what can I do that
will then be that thing, right?

1121
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:04,679
Is it start the family?

1122
00:32:04,679 --> 00:32:05,490
Is it build the house?

1123
00:32:05,490 --> 00:32:06,179
Is it whatever?

1124
00:32:06,210 --> 00:32:06,389
Right.

1125
00:32:06,629 --> 00:32:08,850
And instead, what I
realized over time was.

1126
00:32:09,405 --> 00:32:12,045
Just plenty of little
completions is fine.

1127
00:32:12,195 --> 00:32:12,465
Right.

1128
00:32:12,465 --> 00:32:12,825
Because

1129
00:32:13,245 --> 00:32:13,575
Right.

1130
00:32:13,575 --> 00:32:16,395
That relief compounds
just like stress does.

1131
00:32:16,455 --> 00:32:16,785
Right.

1132
00:32:16,785 --> 00:32:20,565
So for me, small finishes were
more than enough to refill the

1133
00:32:20,565 --> 00:32:23,565
tank and I think that's what
I've started to, to focus on.

1134
00:32:23,685 --> 00:32:26,085
It's not what you finish,
it's that you finish.

1135
00:32:26,295 --> 00:32:26,865
That's exactly

1136
00:32:27,105 --> 00:32:27,285
it.

1137
00:32:27,285 --> 00:32:28,605
Is that you finish it all in.

1138
00:32:28,665 --> 00:32:28,815
Yep.

1139
00:32:29,055 --> 00:32:31,035
If I stop, say doing
carpentry, as you know,

1140
00:32:31,485 --> 00:32:34,755
my hobby and my completion
mechanic, I don't actually

1141
00:32:34,755 --> 00:32:36,075
have other things that I do.

1142
00:32:36,705 --> 00:32:39,795
Give me that sense of, of
completion and fulfillment,

1143
00:32:40,365 --> 00:32:42,735
even though I literally
build things for a living.

1144
00:32:42,915 --> 00:32:43,275
Yeah.

1145
00:32:43,605 --> 00:32:46,215
Like, and what's nice about,
you know, doing anything

1146
00:32:46,215 --> 00:32:47,895
like that, or even like you
were talking about making a

1147
00:32:47,895 --> 00:32:50,504
meal, getting a good workout
in, playing a sport, you

1148
00:32:50,504 --> 00:32:52,545
know, whatever your thing is.

1149
00:32:52,725 --> 00:32:55,754
What I'm saying is don't
look at that as trite

1150
00:32:55,785 --> 00:32:57,015
compared to your startup.

1151
00:32:57,075 --> 00:32:57,345
Correct.

1152
00:32:58,185 --> 00:33:00,885
Because the dopamine
hit that you get out of

1153
00:33:00,885 --> 00:33:04,185
that is meaningful, the
sense of completion.

1154
00:33:04,830 --> 00:33:05,610
It resets.

1155
00:33:05,610 --> 00:33:05,670
Yeah.

1156
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:06,090
Right.

1157
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:08,220
Like it puts stuff
like back in the tank.

1158
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:08,760
Yep.

1159
00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:11,010
And I think for so long,
for so many years, like

1160
00:33:11,010 --> 00:33:14,700
decades, I kept taking it
out and I could never figure

1161
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:15,780
out how to put any back in.

1162
00:33:16,170 --> 00:33:18,300
I hear a lot of people talk
about this with, uh, with wealth

1163
00:33:18,660 --> 00:33:21,210
where they say, you know, I
made some money and I bought a

1164
00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:23,850
thing, you know, like to car,
you know, house or whatever.

1165
00:33:24,210 --> 00:33:25,860
And then the novelty wore off.

1166
00:33:26,110 --> 00:33:27,070
That's nature of it.

1167
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:28,090
Novelty wore off.

1168
00:33:28,150 --> 00:33:31,900
And so I tried to buy another
thing to replace that feeling

1169
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,580
of accomplishment, whatever.

1170
00:33:33,850 --> 00:33:34,720
And then that novelty.

1171
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,620
Novelty wore off.

1172
00:33:35,625 --> 00:33:35,755
Yeah.

1173
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,950
And then what happened is
every single time I tried

1174
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:41,020
to spend more go outdo it.

1175
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:41,410
Yep.

1176
00:33:41,470 --> 00:33:45,550
To get that feeling back of
finality and it just got worse.

1177
00:33:45,550 --> 00:33:47,715
And it's actually like a
legit problem for people.

1178
00:33:48,419 --> 00:33:48,690
Yep.

1179
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:50,730
It's like we all know
an adrenaline junkie.

1180
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:51,030
Right.

1181
00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:54,120
And like, it's like whatever
it took to, to shake them

1182
00:33:54,125 --> 00:33:56,520
and, and to satisfy that
need, it just becomes more

1183
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,050
and more and more each time.

1184
00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,159
Well, right.

1185
00:33:59,159 --> 00:34:02,669
Where that becomes an issue is
we're trying to solve a problem.

1186
00:34:02,850 --> 00:34:02,940
Yeah.

1187
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:04,770
With a mechanism that
doesn't solve that problem.

1188
00:34:04,770 --> 00:34:04,780
Correct.

1189
00:34:05,505 --> 00:34:07,185
We're, we're trying to
buy more stuff and then,

1190
00:34:07,245 --> 00:34:08,055
then we'll be happy.

1191
00:34:08,175 --> 00:34:10,875
Well, it turns out buying stuff
doesn't sustain happiness.

1192
00:34:11,055 --> 00:34:11,175
Yeah.

1193
00:34:11,205 --> 00:34:12,705
It gives you a short
bit of happiness.

1194
00:34:12,705 --> 00:34:13,065
Short terms.

1195
00:34:13,335 --> 00:34:15,315
There's something really
cool about rolling off the

1196
00:34:15,315 --> 00:34:16,455
lot in a new car, right?

1197
00:34:16,455 --> 00:34:16,605
Yeah.

1198
00:34:17,085 --> 00:34:19,995
But within three weeks,
you just can't sustain like

1199
00:34:19,995 --> 00:34:20,925
that level of happiness,

1200
00:34:20,925 --> 00:34:21,315
maintenance bill.

1201
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,560
Exactly.

1202
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,259
And then you're, you're, you're
trying to, to buy the feeling

1203
00:34:25,259 --> 00:34:27,270
of rolling off the, the, the
lot in the new car again.

1204
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:27,330
Yeah.

1205
00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:28,679
And it just kind of
doesn't work that way.

1206
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:29,759
Doesn't come with the car.

1207
00:34:30,509 --> 00:34:34,380
Um, I always thought, okay, so
this was me like again, early

1208
00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:36,779
in my career, in my life, I
thought that once you could

1209
00:34:36,779 --> 00:34:40,259
get like a few of the staples
of life, car, house furniture,

1210
00:34:40,259 --> 00:34:42,090
so to speak, that you're done.

1211
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:42,659
Yeah.

1212
00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:45,270
I remember there's this
quote by, uh, Edward

1213
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:45,844
Norton and Fight Club.

1214
00:34:46,905 --> 00:34:48,435
Remember when he was going
through the IKEA catalog?

1215
00:34:48,705 --> 00:34:49,125
Oh, yes.

1216
00:34:49,185 --> 00:34:51,465
And he says something to the
effect of, he is like, I just

1217
00:34:51,465 --> 00:34:54,014
assumed, you know, I, I had the
couch, I had, you know, this.

1218
00:34:54,014 --> 00:34:55,815
He's like, so that
problem was taken care of.

1219
00:34:55,815 --> 00:34:57,615
I'd never have to deal
with that problem again.

1220
00:34:57,615 --> 00:34:57,795
Right.

1221
00:34:57,795 --> 00:34:59,110
And I was like, that's
exactly how I was, was

1222
00:34:59,115 --> 00:34:59,805
thinking at the time.

1223
00:35:00,045 --> 00:35:03,630
Uhhuh like, you know, once I got
the IKEA couch, I, I'm the nan.

1224
00:35:04,095 --> 00:35:04,935
I would be fine.

1225
00:35:04,935 --> 00:35:05,295
Right.

1226
00:35:05,595 --> 00:35:07,425
But it turns out that burns off.

1227
00:35:07,725 --> 00:35:09,435
And you need the next
thing and the next thing

1228
00:35:09,435 --> 00:35:10,065
and the next thing.

1229
00:35:10,425 --> 00:35:14,385
Whenever we're trying to
fulfill ourselves with these

1230
00:35:14,625 --> 00:35:16,575
bottomless pits, it ends poorly.

1231
00:35:17,175 --> 00:35:19,815
So again, I wish somebody
told me, dude, find something

1232
00:35:19,815 --> 00:35:20,685
else to fulfill yourself.

1233
00:35:20,685 --> 00:35:21,435
'cause this ain't it.

1234
00:35:21,765 --> 00:35:22,065
Yeah.

1235
00:35:22,065 --> 00:35:22,635
And it's true.

1236
00:35:23,175 --> 00:35:25,035
You know, I think it's a
piece of advice I started

1237
00:35:25,035 --> 00:35:28,575
giving myself was stop
obsessing about the next

1238
00:35:28,575 --> 00:35:29,595
thing you're gonna start.

1239
00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:33,089
Start obsessing about the next
thing you're gonna finish.

1240
00:35:33,420 --> 00:35:35,430
And that helped me a lot,
I guess, like, look, as

1241
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:37,770
founders as creative people,
as, as people who like to

1242
00:35:37,770 --> 00:35:40,529
build and, and are, are
capable of doing it, it's

1243
00:35:40,529 --> 00:35:44,069
really hard to avoid that,
that trigger and that urge.

1244
00:35:44,430 --> 00:35:47,009
But I think that as I've, as
I've gotten a little older, a

1245
00:35:47,009 --> 00:35:49,649
little slower, a little more
mature, I've figured out it's

1246
00:35:49,649 --> 00:35:51,955
like, look, just there's,
it goes back, like there's

1247
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:52,770
that sense of completion.

1248
00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:55,259
Like, let's finish this
off before we, before

1249
00:35:55,259 --> 00:35:57,234
we start playing around
with what's, what's next.

1250
00:35:57,839 --> 00:36:01,589
My ratio of earning things
to, uh, appreciating

1251
00:36:01,589 --> 00:36:03,750
them is one to 99.

1252
00:36:04,860 --> 00:36:07,770
I I will spend 99% of
my time earning things.

1253
00:36:07,775 --> 00:36:07,955
Yeah.

1254
00:36:08,134 --> 00:36:09,660
And at best, yeah.

1255
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:11,460
1% of my time appreciating them.

1256
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:11,520
Yeah.

1257
00:36:11,730 --> 00:36:14,220
Now, when I say earning
things, I mean, it could

1258
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:14,790
be literally anything.

1259
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:16,920
It could be a sport that
I played, it could be, you

1260
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:17,790
know, something that I built.

1261
00:36:17,790 --> 00:36:17,819
A

1262
00:36:17,819 --> 00:36:18,720
skill that you've learned.

1263
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:19,140
Yeah.

1264
00:36:19,140 --> 00:36:19,150
Yeah.

1265
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:22,500
I will work so hard to win
at a hockey game, but when

1266
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:23,355
I win, I won't give a shit.

1267
00:36:24,330 --> 00:36:27,660
Like it has no, like the,
the effort pays me nothing.

1268
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:28,049
Right?

1269
00:36:28,049 --> 00:36:28,980
Like I just, oh yeah, okay.

1270
00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:29,279
We won.

1271
00:36:29,310 --> 00:36:29,669
Whatever.

1272
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:35,310
I would love to have this like
inner compass that said, I will

1273
00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:38,850
only work on things if I spend
an equal amount of time getting

1274
00:36:38,850 --> 00:36:40,589
them as I do appreciating them.

1275
00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:41,549
Ooh, ooh.

1276
00:36:43,024 --> 00:36:44,254
Which means I work on nothing.

1277
00:36:44,254 --> 00:36:45,335
There's a complicated calculus.

1278
00:36:45,335 --> 00:36:45,615
Yeah.

1279
00:36:45,774 --> 00:36:46,649
I can't do it.

1280
00:36:46,649 --> 00:36:49,109
But that seems like
a really cool goal.

1281
00:36:49,259 --> 00:36:49,500
It does.

1282
00:36:50,235 --> 00:36:53,505
I will say this, the only
thing in in my life that I

1283
00:36:53,505 --> 00:36:55,845
would say I've spent more
time appreciating than

1284
00:36:55,845 --> 00:36:58,065
working for, and this is gonna
sound wrong, is my family.

1285
00:36:58,770 --> 00:36:58,980
Yeah.

1286
00:36:58,980 --> 00:36:59,220
No.

1287
00:36:59,220 --> 00:36:59,520
I mean,

1288
00:36:59,850 --> 00:37:02,310
yes, not because I don't work
for it because I spend so

1289
00:37:02,310 --> 00:37:03,390
much time appreciating, yeah.

1290
00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:04,350
Being appreciated
for, for my family.

1291
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:04,740
Yep.

1292
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,160
Same.

1293
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,860
And they don't require
like some like life

1294
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:08,970
sucking effort out of me.

1295
00:37:08,970 --> 00:37:09,030
No.

1296
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:10,200
I mean, just have great family.

1297
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,870
So do you, Jason k said
this once, he said kids are

1298
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:15,120
the only thing that that
isn't under underrated.

1299
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:15,830
Yeah,

1300
00:37:16,250 --> 00:37:17,840
because it's the one thing
that can give you back

1301
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:18,470
that's depending your kids.

1302
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:18,590
That's

1303
00:37:18,590 --> 00:37:19,130
so true.

1304
00:37:19,580 --> 00:37:20,990
Uh, it's the one thing
that can give you back

1305
00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:21,980
more than you give to them.

1306
00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:22,400
Yeah.

1307
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,200
Not that that needs to
be the ratio, but it's,

1308
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,070
it's pretty incredible.

1309
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,040
I haven't been able to find
that many kind of sources

1310
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,290
of completion, of certainty,
of like being able to

1311
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:33,020
appreciate that are like so
polar opposite, you know,

1312
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:33,920
from what we do in startups.

1313
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:34,100
Yeah.

1314
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:37,070
I guess what we're saying is
that startups are marathons

1315
00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:38,600
with zero finish tape.

1316
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:39,020
Right?

1317
00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:39,560
So.

1318
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,030
Expect them to deliver.

1319
00:37:42,030 --> 00:37:45,810
A permanent sense of rival
is a rigged game, right?

1320
00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:47,520
Like we can't have
that expectation.

1321
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,380
So if you, it's a Rigg
game, do want fulfillment,

1322
00:37:49,830 --> 00:37:51,840
you have to manufacture
some kind of completion

1323
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,190
outside the company, right?

1324
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:56,490
For will, it's building things
for me, it's playing sports,

1325
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:59,730
sometimes building things, uh,
but they have to exist for us.

1326
00:37:59,730 --> 00:38:01,980
So don't worry about
the next thing.

1327
00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,450
You're gonna start, worry
more about the next thing

1328
00:38:03,450 --> 00:38:05,910
you're gonna finish, and
if it feels ridiculously

1329
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:09,330
good, and it will also make
you better at the marathon.

1330
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:12,300
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone.

1331
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,550
You don't have to, and
honestly, you shouldn't

1332
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:17,730
because instead, you can learn
directly from peers who've been

1333
00:38:17,730 --> 00:38:18,720
in your shoes.

1334
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:21,120
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors

1335
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,550
helping them win in the
startups.com community.

1336
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:28,350
Check out the startups.com
community@www.startups.com

1337
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:29,370
to see if it's for you.

1338
00:38:29,610 --> 00:38:30,660
Could be just the
thing you need.

1339
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:31,860
I hope to see you inside.