1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,800 Michael, welcome to the Evolved Radio podcast. Thank you, Todd. Pleasure to be 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,480 here. Excellent to have you. So you have 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,880 a very interesting career in the MSP space. 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,520 To kick things off, do you want to tell us a bit about your journey? 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,480 It's a long adventure. You can give us the shorter version of this, 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,680 where you've been, where you've come to now. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Okay, I'll try to keep it short. I'm an old guy, 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,920 so I'd say I'm an accidental lawyer. 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,640 I graduated law school not knowing what I wanted to do with. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,280 I graduated from college not knowing what I wanted to do with 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,959 myself. I still don't, but that's 12 00:00:44,959 --> 00:00:47,720 another story. And 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,120 enjoyed history, political science, political 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,650 philosophy, and studied and decided to go to law school 15 00:00:56,130 --> 00:00:59,850 like a lot of other people at my, at that phase of 16 00:00:59,850 --> 00:01:01,490 life at that time. And 17 00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:07,730 you realize when you're in the middle of law school that the only thing that 18 00:01:07,730 --> 00:01:11,370 you're, they're training you to do is to go work at a law 19 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:14,770 firm for like five years to learn to actually practice law. 20 00:01:15,250 --> 00:01:19,050 It's like think about a doctor who just gets out of medical school. They're not 21 00:01:19,050 --> 00:01:22,130 ready to practice unsupervised. 22 00:01:23,330 --> 00:01:27,070 And so that's what happened. That's what I realized. And so 23 00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:31,150 I took advantage of that realization, worked 24 00:01:31,150 --> 00:01:34,870 as a lawyer, and then 25 00:01:34,870 --> 00:01:38,030 once you're five years into working as a lawyer, you've got a lot of sunk 26 00:01:38,030 --> 00:01:41,870 costs into the deal. So, so I kept working as a 27 00:01:41,870 --> 00:01:45,710 lawyer. And by the time I was 42 28 00:01:45,870 --> 00:01:46,510 years old, 29 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:53,690 I had practiced law and done a few different things, but 30 00:01:53,690 --> 00:01:57,330 mostly in the legal field, but was really 31 00:01:57,330 --> 00:02:00,810 unsatisfied with the legal career up until that point. Really 32 00:02:02,010 --> 00:02:05,810 very much of a journeyman, I would say, jack of all 33 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:09,610 trades. And just 34 00:02:09,610 --> 00:02:13,290 so happened to be across the old conference room table 35 00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:16,090 with a 27 year old founder named Austin McCord 36 00:02:17,210 --> 00:02:19,400 at the time. This is 2013 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,040 and I was looking for an adventure. He was 38 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,400 on an adventure and needed a, needed a 39 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,120 Sherpa of some kind. He and I, or 40 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,880 caddy, he and I hit it 41 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,680 off quite well. Our personalities 42 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,480 and the, the things that he needed were things that I was 43 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,150 capable of helping him with. And so that 44 00:02:47,150 --> 00:02:48,550 spawned a 45 00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:55,510 interesting partnership. And for me it was the beginning of an adventure in 46 00:02:55,510 --> 00:02:59,350 MSP land. I joined the company as general counsel. 47 00:03:01,350 --> 00:03:05,110 It was about 100 employees at the time. And Datto 48 00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:08,630 grew to be a public company with more than 2,000 49 00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:12,350 employees. I was the general counsel and head of 50 00:03:12,350 --> 00:03:16,070 HR for two different CEOs over the 51 00:03:16,070 --> 00:03:19,630 years and got to be a part of that 52 00:03:19,630 --> 00:03:23,150 entire journey of scale. And 53 00:03:26,110 --> 00:03:29,510 I thought, I mean, I think that that was the best job in America. I 54 00:03:29,510 --> 00:03:33,070 did that for like nine years. When it came to an end, 55 00:03:34,430 --> 00:03:38,150 I pivoted a bit and started 56 00:03:38,150 --> 00:03:42,000 working in venture capital again with Austin and 57 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,000 his, his other partner, Teddy. And 58 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,120 about a year into doing that, we, Austin and I 59 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,040 decided to. That it was time 60 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,440 to rekindle the magic. And 61 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,880 that's how we started Slide. Awesome. 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,480 So we'll. Yeah, we'll, We'll. We'll. We'll jump forward a little bit here. 63 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,160 I want to linger a little on Datto, because it is. 64 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,080 It almost has sort of this mythic status in the MSP ecosystem because 65 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,320 of. I think the timing was so right 66 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,200 and the sort of 67 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,960 meteoric growth that you guys had. And when a company grows 68 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,360 that fast, there's sort of this public narrative of success, 69 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,480 but privately, there's usually some cost in the background. 70 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,520 What did you guys see as a leadership team and as 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,000 individuals, that it sort of cost you or the people around you? 72 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,660 And how did that influence. How were you going to do things differently in Slide? 73 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:50,020 Well, there are so many costs. Most of the costs 74 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:54,500 are, you know, 75 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:58,140 like badges, you know, so they're, they're, 76 00:04:58,140 --> 00:05:01,820 they're less. The generals badges, you mean? Yeah, or like a Cub 77 00:05:01,820 --> 00:05:05,660 Scout or Boy Scout badges or whatever, you know, 78 00:05:05,660 --> 00:05:09,150 I think their lessons learned. 79 00:05:09,630 --> 00:05:13,270 And so as much as they may have cost, they were valuable. 80 00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:17,110 They were worth the cost, I would say. I can't ever regret 81 00:05:17,110 --> 00:05:20,910 any costly mistake or endeavor because 82 00:05:20,910 --> 00:05:24,750 we always learn so much from them. We had a lot of different people 83 00:05:25,710 --> 00:05:29,150 in different leadership roles over the years 84 00:05:30,110 --> 00:05:32,670 in Datto. And I think that the most interesting 85 00:05:33,620 --> 00:05:36,900 observation from looking back on that entire 86 00:05:36,980 --> 00:05:40,620 arc of time was the, the ability 87 00:05:40,620 --> 00:05:44,260 for the business to evolve with different 88 00:05:44,340 --> 00:05:48,100 people who spiked in different areas 89 00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:51,860 at different times in the timeline of the organization and its development. 90 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:56,820 And not everyone is right 91 00:05:57,140 --> 00:06:00,360 at all the right times. And 92 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,360 that's a hard lesson to learn sometimes because 93 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,360 a lot of people that bring you there don't 94 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,120 necessarily 95 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,760 have the experience to do the things that the company needs to do 96 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,600 in the future. And a lot of people that join who have a 97 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,440 lot of experience aren't really set up for the swashbuckling 98 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,980 craziness of a startup. And so timing 99 00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:31,780 is really important throughout the life cycle. When you talked 100 00:06:31,780 --> 00:06:35,380 about timing, I'm thinking to myself, well, you know, at which, 101 00:06:35,380 --> 00:06:38,620 at which era, in my mind, I have many eras 102 00:06:39,580 --> 00:06:41,580 in that adventure. 103 00:06:43,580 --> 00:06:45,980 So the 104 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:51,580 mistakes are 105 00:06:51,580 --> 00:06:54,550 pearls of wisdom. As long as you don't die from them. 106 00:06:55,590 --> 00:06:59,270 And so there's innumerable. But I'd say 107 00:06:59,510 --> 00:07:03,350 the most important takeaways there were that we 108 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:07,110 all have our sort of butter zone. And 109 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:14,310 being able to identify people's butter zones is 110 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:20,070 a learned attribute that I think has helped me 111 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:24,220 in this adventure that I'm on now. Cool. Okay. 112 00:07:25,580 --> 00:07:29,220 That sort of pace of evolution and the changes that you guys saw, 113 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:32,700 I think there's a parallel with MSPs as well, especially now. 114 00:07:33,180 --> 00:07:36,819 I used to joke that the IT industry is a great 115 00:07:36,819 --> 00:07:40,660 industry to be in because the novelty, because the change, like 116 00:07:40,660 --> 00:07:44,300 everything has a shelf life of about six months. And now with 117 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:47,580 a lot of the technology changes we're seeing, it's more like the technology has a 118 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:51,420 shelf life is six weeks. So the pace of change is just so 119 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:55,080 wild. That sort of rate of evolution, 120 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,960 what are you seeing as far as impacts or 121 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,120 questions from the clients that you're dealing with now about how 122 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,920 that is impacting their business or how they need support from 123 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,400 you guys as a vendor? What does that materially change or 124 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,000 what observations do you have about how that evolution is changing 125 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:14,680 the MSP channel? 126 00:08:19,650 --> 00:08:23,490 So I, I think my, that's a 127 00:08:23,490 --> 00:08:25,330 really good and difficult question. 128 00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:32,970 The I, I 129 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:36,770 have a very strong thesis on the value of MSP 130 00:08:37,250 --> 00:08:40,690 as the transit transmission mechanism 131 00:08:41,330 --> 00:08:45,170 for IT services to be delivered to small and to medium 132 00:08:45,170 --> 00:08:48,390 enterprises across the globe. And so as 133 00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:52,150 small to medium enterprises manage 134 00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:55,910 greater complexity in their 135 00:08:56,710 --> 00:09:00,350 digital space, they become more and more reliant 136 00:09:00,350 --> 00:09:03,750 on the effect of MSP to 137 00:09:04,070 --> 00:09:07,830 run their business and not get caught in a, you know, 138 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:11,270 catastrophic cybersecurity event or a similar 139 00:09:11,430 --> 00:09:15,010 disaster or, or 140 00:09:15,010 --> 00:09:18,850 not keep up with modern workflows 141 00:09:19,330 --> 00:09:22,610 and so as not to keep up with their 142 00:09:22,610 --> 00:09:26,410 competitors. So today, this day 143 00:09:26,410 --> 00:09:30,050 and age, well, we've seen waves of technology 144 00:09:31,010 --> 00:09:34,370 fall over the SMB IT 145 00:09:34,530 --> 00:09:38,370 space and we've seen timing be so important 146 00:09:38,610 --> 00:09:42,280 for the growth of the MSP delivery 147 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,000 mechanism. And so I, that's only 148 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,680 strengthened my thesis for the, the, the MSP space. 149 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,520 And as we move into a world of AI and digital 150 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,360 transformation at a pace that no one's ever seen, 151 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,560 the MSPs that are 152 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,230 looking around the corner, looking around the bend, learning 153 00:10:07,790 --> 00:10:11,630 modern workflows, learning modern tools, learning 154 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:15,630 modern security threats and. 155 00:10:20,350 --> 00:10:23,950 Living with that, learning IT for their own businesses so that they can then 156 00:10:23,950 --> 00:10:27,310 translate that into being that for deployed AI 157 00:10:27,550 --> 00:10:31,310 specialist, for the SMBs who are going to need them 158 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:34,620 for that so badly, those MSPs that get that 159 00:10:35,020 --> 00:10:37,180 are going to be exceptionally 160 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:42,380 valued and there's MSPs that are not going 161 00:10:42,380 --> 00:10:46,060 to get that or they'll be behind the curve and they're going to 162 00:10:46,060 --> 00:10:49,780 struggle. Yeah, like one of the sort of the dirty secrets 163 00:10:49,780 --> 00:10:53,460 is the open secret now of the MSP industry and 164 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:56,540 service leadership has talked a lot about this historically of 165 00:10:57,020 --> 00:11:00,790 25% of the industry is break even or losing money. Do you feel like 166 00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:04,510 that curve will get steeper as maybe there's increased 167 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:07,390 consolidation or the threat of 168 00:11:09,310 --> 00:11:13,030 these MSPs needing to adapt as things get harder and harder 169 00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:16,510 for them in the channel? Do you think this is a different 170 00:11:16,510 --> 00:11:20,110 circumstance than it has been through the changes in Cloud and the changes in 171 00:11:20,110 --> 00:11:22,910 security? Does this feel more existential? Maybe. 172 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,840 The greater the reward, 173 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,960 the greater the risk. Right. That is the essence of this Life. 174 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,600 And the 175 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,960 MSPs that don't stay ahead of the curve 176 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,690 with modern technology are, are 177 00:11:53,170 --> 00:11:55,650 going to die 178 00:11:58,450 --> 00:12:02,170 and. But that's always been the case. Is it 179 00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:06,010 more, is it more existential now? I think it may be. It 180 00:12:06,010 --> 00:12:09,850 might move more quickly. But I also 181 00:12:09,850 --> 00:12:13,490 think that there's always, there's always winners and losers in 182 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:17,090 all of these technology transitions. And my 183 00:12:17,090 --> 00:12:20,610 expectation is that this technology transition is going to be so 184 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,200 overwhelming and massive that there's so many opportunities 185 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,680 for winning that I just assume pay 186 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:32,160 attention to that side of the, of the wave, then 187 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,920 worry too much about the backside of the wave. Yeah. 188 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,720 Okay. Both at Datto and with Slide, you guys have 189 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,520 been very intentional about leveraging the channel as 190 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,400 a go to market strategy, not doing direct sales and a 191 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,030 real strong belief in what the MSP channel provides as a 192 00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:57,100 partner for you guys as a vendor. You kind of talked a 193 00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:00,820 bit about this of like a really strong thesis of the importance 194 00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:04,260 of MSPs. But what is sort of the internal discussion, especially as you guys 195 00:13:04,260 --> 00:13:07,420 rebooted with the go to market for slide 196 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:11,580 of why the MSP channel as a delivery and a sell 197 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:14,060 through model is so important. What are your thoughts on that. 198 00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:24,710 Thing has changed in Austin 199 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:28,470 or my philosophy around this? If you go 200 00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:32,310 and read the S1 registration statement from 201 00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:34,630 2020 from the Datto days, 202 00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:39,590 it's long but there, you know, most of it is, is 203 00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:44,670 legalese. But there's some really important provisions in there that really set 204 00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:46,720 out the thesis and 205 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,040 there's just no way for. Well, as, as 206 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,640 SMBs manage more and more complexity in their 207 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,040 businesses related to their digital 208 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,840 transformations that they're all going through and that 209 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,320 complexity relates to how their work gets done, how 210 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,320 secure their environments are, how, 211 00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:15,850 you know, how, how efficient their people are and 212 00:14:16,970 --> 00:14:20,010 that's just getting fat that's just moving more and more quickly because 213 00:14:20,490 --> 00:14:24,330 SMBs have profits that they need to protect, 214 00:14:24,490 --> 00:14:28,010 they have stiff competition, and in order 215 00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:31,850 to stay ahead of the curve, they need to be digitally transforming all 216 00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:35,490 the time. And so that, and again that pace is just 217 00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:39,290 getting faster and the complexity is just growing. And 218 00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:42,850 so that just makes MSP more and more central 219 00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:46,770 to their success. If they're to be successful, 220 00:14:48,530 --> 00:14:52,050 by and large, they will need excellent 221 00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:55,650 IT Sherpas. 222 00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:59,530 And that's just a 223 00:14:59,530 --> 00:15:02,370 virtuous cycle for me. That's an exceptionally 224 00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:08,140 exciting marketplace to 225 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:12,300 have an opportunity to participate in. Yeah, I think we 226 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,900 agree pretty strongly on this point about the, the importance 227 00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:19,820 of MSPs leveraging what they're learning and 228 00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:23,500 how they're adapting their businesses and what they can actually teach their customers 229 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:27,460 about those lessons. I don't feel like this is something that a lot of 230 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:30,780 them recognize in themselves of the, 231 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:34,940 the necessity for competition and understanding all the aspects 232 00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:38,300 of business are pretty universal. Like they, they tend to be 233 00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:42,890 technically led organizations, so they do focus a lot on 234 00:15:42,890 --> 00:15:46,490 technology, but as they continue to grow, they focus a lot more 235 00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:50,250 on the traditional HR functions and management and scale, 236 00:15:50,810 --> 00:15:54,609 the marketing and sales functions, which don't come naturally to a lot of the 237 00:15:54,609 --> 00:15:58,370 technical founders. And I think that there's a lot that they can turn and 238 00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:02,210 lend to their customers around digital transformation of the things that 239 00:16:02,210 --> 00:16:06,050 they've learned about their business, but are probably 80% applicable to 240 00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:09,730 their customers as well. This is sort of that evolution of how 241 00:16:09,730 --> 00:16:13,270 people are consulting to their customers and 242 00:16:13,270 --> 00:16:16,750 moving more to a business consultant rather than just purely a 243 00:16:16,750 --> 00:16:18,150 technical consultant. Right. 244 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:23,590 MSPs that I talk to, that I 245 00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:27,190 listen to most carefully, whom I learned the most from 246 00:16:28,390 --> 00:16:31,550 are ones that are digitally 247 00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:35,270 transforming their own businesses. And 248 00:16:35,270 --> 00:16:38,940 they are taking the learnings from that 249 00:16:38,940 --> 00:16:42,780 process and then being able 250 00:16:42,780 --> 00:16:46,180 to translate those learnings into tangible results 251 00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:50,540 for end clients. And at the end of the day, if 252 00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:51,940 there are no tangible results, 253 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:57,780 this ain't gonna work. And so the only 254 00:16:57,780 --> 00:17:01,420 way for one to obtain tangible results is to know it and live 255 00:17:01,420 --> 00:17:05,140 it. In my view, eating our own dog food. And so there's 256 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:08,399 no room for the cobbler whose kids 257 00:17:08,639 --> 00:17:10,399 shoes are shoddy or whatever that 258 00:17:11,999 --> 00:17:14,639 metaphor that I just mixed 259 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,879 really means. But the MSP 260 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,879 cannot be that effective for deployed 261 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,279 AI and security engineer, 262 00:17:30,159 --> 00:17:33,990 digital transformation consultant, without 263 00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:37,950 having really understood it and lived it 264 00:17:37,950 --> 00:17:41,110 themselves. And so the ones that, 265 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:45,510 at least that's my takeaway from my learnings 266 00:17:45,670 --> 00:17:49,270 to talking to MSPs whose opinion I value 267 00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:53,910 more than others. Perfect. The other part I'm 268 00:17:53,910 --> 00:17:57,630 interested In it's just a bit of your guys's view of market 269 00:17:57,630 --> 00:18:00,950 dynamics. Right. I think 270 00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:03,670 Slide, do you go. Maybe I'll ask this a different way 271 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,480 to sort of get sideways into this question. 272 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,480 Do you guys view Slide as a bit of a rebel in the industry? Is 273 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,320 that part of what you would identify as sort of the 274 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:20,840 hallmark of how you guys are participating in the channel at all? Or 275 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,840 is that maybe me extrapolating things onto you? 276 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,680 We're really not seeking to embody any image other than 277 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,520 a partner, a 278 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,360 true partner. And maybe that 279 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,280 is a rebellious part. Is that the rebellious part? Maybe, 280 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,319 I don't know. Our job is to help MSPS build their business 281 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,680 and I think there are a lot of 282 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,920 technology companies in the MSP space who 283 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,600 may not view their jobs that way. They may view their jobs as to extract 284 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,750 as much value out of msps. 285 00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:10,870 We're trying to sort of, you know, make 286 00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:14,550 the, the tide rise rather than, you know, 287 00:19:14,550 --> 00:19:18,270 suck the, suck the water out of the, out of the bay. We really 288 00:19:18,270 --> 00:19:21,950 want MSPS to be successful. We think we're going to have the best 289 00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:26,270 solutions to help them become successful. And so we think that's going to help 290 00:19:26,270 --> 00:19:29,550 us in the long run. But I, but if you think about the values that 291 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,960 this crew of individuals carry 292 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,800 with them, it is aligned with 293 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,800 doing the right thing, doing what's best for the msp, not 294 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,640 looking after short term gain, doing your life's work. And 295 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:49,480 so we don't really think about how that might 296 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:54,120 impact our image across the landscape other 297 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,580 than as a strong partner and a great technology 298 00:19:57,740 --> 00:20:01,540 company. Okay. And part of the reason that I'm curious is like I 299 00:20:01,540 --> 00:20:05,060 do feel like there is an intention to do things differently. Right. Like you guys 300 00:20:05,060 --> 00:20:07,580 had some type of magic with Datto 301 00:20:08,620 --> 00:20:11,980 and you know, the post acquisition and maybe things 302 00:20:12,140 --> 00:20:15,740 felt or looked different, not what was imagined in the 303 00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:19,540 earlier days. And Slide as an opportunity to sort of 304 00:20:19,540 --> 00:20:23,340 revisit what made the, the sort of, the, the earlier days of 305 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:27,100 Datto magical. Is, is, am I again, am I applying something 306 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:30,120 that isn't there to you guys or that there's some truth to that? 307 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,360 Yeah, I think the whole idea here is 308 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,720 that there is a need in 309 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,120 the market that we identified, I believe 310 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,960 for a couple things. One, 311 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,600 technology that is developed 312 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,280 in the very recent past, you know, modern 313 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,120 technology using modern tools to solve business problems 314 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,680 using the freshest, best 315 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,040 people and tools and technologies underlying them. And 316 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,440 it's, you know, when we challenged this team 317 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,680 to build a modern BCDR infrastructure, 318 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,680 we asked them to go to first principles and 319 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,560 build something that was. 320 00:21:28,570 --> 00:21:31,290 Markedly better than, than what was there before. 321 00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:36,290 That was always our pedigree. But you know, it's hard 322 00:21:36,290 --> 00:21:39,530 to, you know when you, when something is 323 00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,770 rests on a 20 year old foundation, there's only 324 00:21:43,770 --> 00:21:47,370 so much you can do with it. When you start from 325 00:21:47,370 --> 00:21:51,130 scratch and you spend a year and a half, two years in the 326 00:21:51,130 --> 00:21:54,980 lab, you have the ability 327 00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:58,820 to be inspired and to create that inspiration that we 328 00:21:58,820 --> 00:22:02,580 always sought in the old days. The 329 00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:05,020 other piece that is super important is 330 00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:10,220 I alluded to this a little bit before. The values 331 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:17,540 to us, it shouldn't be 332 00:22:17,540 --> 00:22:21,150 thought of as doing things differently as you described. It should be 333 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:22,310 described as doing things, 334 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:28,430 doing the right thing, taking care of your partner, 335 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:32,070 being a true partner, valuing the long 336 00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:35,750 term relationship over short term gain, doing, you know, 337 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:39,550 encouraging, inspiring. Hopefully your, your. The people around 338 00:22:39,550 --> 00:22:40,870 you to do their lives work. 339 00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:46,800 That's, that's different. Okay. I 340 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,360 mean I don't know. I mean I think that that's the best, 341 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,760 the best I can be the best I know how to. Those are the only 342 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,080 tools I have in my quiver. Only arrows I have in my quiver. 343 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,960 And so the fact that those values 344 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,520 carry on from one 345 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,480 organization into a new organization, well that's just a 346 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,640 reflection of the human beings who've, you know, who've 347 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,510 assembled together to form that organization. 348 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:18,910 Cool. And like related but not related more on sort of the technology 349 00:23:19,150 --> 00:23:22,190 and the sort of the, the idea of the 350 00:23:22,510 --> 00:23:26,190 direction for the organization. I feel like the era of 351 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:29,990 platforms is very pervasive in msps and there's 352 00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:33,710 sort of a strong pull for a lot of the vendors to 353 00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:36,990 create a one stop shop in everything that they do. 354 00:23:37,310 --> 00:23:41,150 And you guys have been obviously very intentional about the 355 00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:46,430 solution that you provide and doing it really well. Has there 356 00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:50,230 been temptation to do other things as you start to scale 357 00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:53,630 up and grow or what do you guys talk about internally of 358 00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:57,430 maintaining that sort of deliberate focus on. This is what we do. We 359 00:23:57,430 --> 00:24:00,590 do this really well in enabling our customers to 360 00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:04,830 have the best platform or the best solution possible for 361 00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:08,630 go to market. Is that a temptation based on market 362 00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:11,630 dynamics or how do you guys think about your, 363 00:24:12,750 --> 00:24:15,470 your deliberate focus on what you guys do? Currently 364 00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:22,350 we're pretty, we're pretty deliberate in our passion for 365 00:24:22,590 --> 00:24:26,429 our chosen field. Right. 366 00:24:26,429 --> 00:24:30,190 So we are a backup company. We, we are 367 00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:33,550 MSP only. Right Channel only. And so 368 00:24:34,110 --> 00:24:36,110 MSPS backup and our 369 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,840 have the privilege of protecting data on behalf of their end 370 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,840 clients that lives in lots of different places 371 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720 and that's laptops and desktops and mobile 372 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,440 devices and Azure Workloads and workloads 373 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,760 that sit in O365 applications like that, 374 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,600 additional servers, virtual servers, et cetera, of Linux 375 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,080 boxes, Microsoft environments. 376 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,800 We have a massive 377 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,560 field to cover. We have only, 378 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,600 we've only touched on one piece of that so far. 379 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,760 We will be the backup company for MSP's period 380 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,440 paragraph. Our first shot out of the Canon is the 381 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,110 BCDR piece. There's a few different reasons why we chose that. First, 382 00:25:32,110 --> 00:25:35,710 it wasn't obvious originally. A lot of 383 00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:38,670 investors and other people say to me, why would you do that? Why did you 384 00:25:38,670 --> 00:25:42,470 do that? And we were very deliberate about that choice. One, 385 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:46,550 this is BCDR is 386 00:25:47,030 --> 00:25:50,790 an extraordinarily hard technical problem to solve, believe it or not. 387 00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:53,510 Many moving parts and 388 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,160 low level access to some really 389 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,400 dense stuff. And then you have to, 390 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,360 you have to coordinate all these, all these data flows. You have to 391 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,159 present them in an elegant way. You have to keep them secure. 392 00:26:11,159 --> 00:26:14,080 You have. And so 393 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,640 that technology in MSP land 394 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,530 rests on 20 year old tech for 395 00:26:22,530 --> 00:26:26,290 the most part. And it's so, 396 00:26:26,290 --> 00:26:30,130 it's the most neglected piece of tech out there in our view. It's 397 00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:33,610 a big piece of the market in our view, in our experience, 398 00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:38,330 and it's not going anywhere. As it moves, it evolves. 399 00:26:39,290 --> 00:26:43,090 Some workloads go here, they go there, they come back, 400 00:26:43,090 --> 00:26:46,900 they navigate, they migrate. At the end of 401 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:50,620 the day there's a massive need out there to back up server 402 00:26:50,620 --> 00:26:54,340 workloads on prem server workloads. And the tech is old. 403 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,180 And so we thought, well, that's also the basis for backing up 404 00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:02,980 on a direct to cloud basis. It's also the basis for backing up 405 00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:06,420 a workload that lives in a virtual server 406 00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:09,940 in Microsoft Azure. There are so many 407 00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:14,180 foundational pieces of our future stack that are 408 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,200 based on the big BCDR product. 409 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,600 So that's why we started with the hardest problem first. We had the time that 410 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,440 we needed, we had very talented people and we, we were 411 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,120 looking to be audacious. So long 412 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,160 story longer, we, we have a 413 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,720 massive field to cover before we start getting cute 414 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,360 and doing other things. That said, 415 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:47,140 we're also entrepreneurs and stuff 416 00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:50,180 happens, like opportunities 417 00:27:50,740 --> 00:27:54,580 happen that you don't know. You're walking on the ground. You 418 00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:56,500 see a $20 bill in the park, 419 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:01,980 it's a $20 bill, you pick it up. Sometimes there are opportunities that you 420 00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:05,780 don't expect. And so I'm never going to be dogmatic about all that stuff, but 421 00:28:06,270 --> 00:28:09,870 we're very clear eyed on all the things 422 00:28:09,870 --> 00:28:13,510 our partners are asking us for and all the things we feel 423 00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:15,950 like we can help them with. So 424 00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:20,390 fantastic. You've had a really interesting seat, I think, 425 00:28:20,390 --> 00:28:23,870 like because being in the early days of Datto through sort of the days 426 00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:27,470 of, you know, the funding run up to going 427 00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:31,270 public and then the sale and the transition, all 428 00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:34,560 that, that, that history I think is really fascinating. 429 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,240 I'd love your perspective on how sort of different 430 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,320 funding vehicles and money in the MSP ecosystem is sort 431 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,040 of reshaping things. So there's obviously the private equity both on the 432 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,840 MSP acquisition side as well as private equity in the vendor side. 433 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,200 And there's obviously some mixed opinions on. Now we're actually seeing 434 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,840 VC money coming in as well and there's mixed opinions 435 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,800 on the pros and the cons of the PE 436 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,700 involvement with both MSPs. And there's 437 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:08,300 been some great wins and there's been some 438 00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:12,380 eroded trust as well. And I'm curious, sort of what you think about 439 00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:17,700 PE money in the industry as a whole, where it's been acquisitive 440 00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:21,380 or helpful or, and some areas where it's 441 00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:24,620 maybe created some rifts or some 442 00:29:25,180 --> 00:29:29,020 broken trust and what sort of those 443 00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:32,300 money vehicles mean for Slide and how you think about 444 00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:35,340 approaching or taking on investors, those sorts of things. 445 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:42,910 Very good questions. It's, it's a very complicated 446 00:29:42,910 --> 00:29:43,910 question because. 447 00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:51,749 There's, there's a great VC 448 00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:55,270 behind some of these companies, right? And 449 00:29:55,270 --> 00:29:59,030 there's VCs that are, I wouldn't qualify characterize as great 450 00:29:59,350 --> 00:30:03,100 behind some of these companies, right. There's private equity 451 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:05,020 sponsors that are, 452 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:10,780 are doing great things, they're 453 00:30:10,780 --> 00:30:14,580 building great businesses that are going to be very valuable and that are 454 00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:18,380 delivering value to their, their customers. 455 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:22,460 And there are private equity shops that are 456 00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:27,180 not, I'll say, and I'm 457 00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:30,750 not really trying to be political here. I'm trying to just be. As I've seen 458 00:30:30,750 --> 00:30:33,830 it. I'll give you two examples. One, when 459 00:30:34,150 --> 00:30:37,990 Datto originally we were planning on going public 460 00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:41,750 back in 2017 and we made a 461 00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:45,190 strategic decision to, to, 462 00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:49,030 to sell the company, a majority of the company to a large private 463 00:30:49,030 --> 00:30:52,710 equity firm that the private equity firm merged us 464 00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:56,390 with Autotask and what emerged from that 465 00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:58,690 was a private equity backed 466 00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:04,130 monolithic, if you, if you will. That's a term that I use a lot of 467 00:31:04,130 --> 00:31:07,730 the time. Platform is a term you use 468 00:31:10,530 --> 00:31:13,570 that from my point of view for several years 469 00:31:14,850 --> 00:31:16,450 continued the magic. 470 00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:22,610 I mean I really, I feel like that last four years of 471 00:31:23,230 --> 00:31:27,070 running Datto as we went and became a publicly traded company and then, 472 00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:31,070 you know, hooked in, given the fact that we were now 473 00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:34,710 A platform. We had to fill out the platform. Right. And so we did some 474 00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:38,550 interesting tuck in acquisitions and it was an incredible adventure. And 475 00:31:38,550 --> 00:31:42,270 at the end of the day, throughout that process, those values 476 00:31:42,270 --> 00:31:46,030 were etched on the walls. It doesn't matter who owned the majority of the company. 477 00:31:46,510 --> 00:31:50,260 We ran the business the way that we 478 00:31:50,260 --> 00:31:53,780 wanted to and that was successful. That was a rising tides 479 00:31:54,660 --> 00:31:58,420 scenario. I have seen other scenarios where private 480 00:31:58,420 --> 00:32:02,140 equity, and again when private equity comes in, depending on where 481 00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:05,739 they are in their journey, they usually pay top 482 00:32:05,739 --> 00:32:08,740 dollar for the business. So their 483 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:12,860 opportunity is both grow the 484 00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:15,620 business but also make the business more efficient. 485 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,040 And so they will seek to do both really strongly. And 486 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,200 some firms are more focused on cutting the 487 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,840 costs and getting 488 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,520 the most out of getting the most out of that business 489 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,840 in cash. Some of them are more focused on building a bigger 490 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,360 business and reinvesting some of that cash into the business. 491 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,840 I've seen both. I happen to believe that 492 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,760 right now in MSP land there is 493 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,960 a glut of 494 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,600 platforms, as you would call them, that 495 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,520 in my view are 496 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,760 running largely outdated technology 497 00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:12,190 that are not great at any of the things they 498 00:33:12,190 --> 00:33:15,990 do, that are not differentiated in any of 499 00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:19,470 those things, that are not 500 00:33:20,350 --> 00:33:22,510 focused on necessarily 501 00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:27,590 the kinds of values that make us successful, in my 502 00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:31,390 view. And so we're seeing a lot of 503 00:33:31,390 --> 00:33:35,200 MSPs look to non 504 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,000 platform vendors to get the best products in the space and 505 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,840 expecting those, those best of breed vendors 506 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,680 to play nice together and to have strong 507 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,440 APIs and have modern tool stacks and to integrate with 508 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,160 one another and to enable them to grow their businesses and do 509 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,440 that in an efficient way. And that's sort of where I stand in this whole 510 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,090 thing. Fantastic. I guess just 511 00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:04,770 looking to wrap up. I'm curious, given 512 00:34:05,730 --> 00:34:09,570 the different levels of exposure that you've had to all sorts of 513 00:34:09,890 --> 00:34:13,490 parts of the industry, both on the client side as well as the vendor side 514 00:34:14,450 --> 00:34:18,090 and the different funding vehicles and all the adventures that 515 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:21,090 you've had. Any general advice for 516 00:34:21,730 --> 00:34:25,570 both the MSPs themselves 517 00:34:25,650 --> 00:34:29,330 as well as maybe some smaller vendors? We're seeing a lot of 518 00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:33,890 sort of stuff bubbling up from the surface as people are 519 00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:37,330 breaking away and kind of doing their own thing. A lot of 520 00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:41,770 constant entrepreneurial spirit in the msp. And 521 00:34:41,770 --> 00:34:45,569 what would you sort of suggest given your experience for both of those parties with 522 00:34:45,569 --> 00:34:49,130 those MSPs looking to digitally transform and the vendors looking 523 00:34:49,130 --> 00:34:52,770 to break into the market and grow their companies? 524 00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:58,480 Get out there. MSP land is the best. MSP land is 525 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,640 the best. There is nothing like being 526 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,560 on the in a boardroom or in 527 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,120 a. On a conference, you know, 528 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,960 expo floor. When you have curious 529 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,840 MSPs wandering around that floor and seeing you and 530 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,600 your competitors going at each other trying to, trying 531 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,410 to compete for business, 532 00:35:26,570 --> 00:35:30,410 that's where great ideas come from. That's where the competitive 533 00:35:30,650 --> 00:35:34,490 juices emerge. That's where MSPs go to learn 534 00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:37,850 this stuff. That's where. That's where vendors 535 00:35:39,369 --> 00:35:42,570 either rise to the occasion or wilt. 536 00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:47,530 You have to be out there, get out there. This is a unique space where 537 00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:51,000 anyone can get out there. There are more opportunities 538 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,440 than you can imagine to get out there and just 539 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600 whoever you are, if you're an msp, go to an event 540 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,200 where your vendors that you're interested in are present. 541 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,040 If you're an MSP. I'm sorry, if you're a vendor, 542 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,880 go to where MSPs are hanging out and get as much 543 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,080 feedback as you can from them and talk to them, learn from them 544 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,580 and your business will be better for it. 545 00:36:17,850 --> 00:36:20,730 Fantastic. I appreciate your time, Michael. It's 546 00:36:21,610 --> 00:36:25,210 always interesting to catch up on what 547 00:36:25,210 --> 00:36:28,210 you've seen and the insights that you have. So I appreciate you sharing and coming 548 00:36:28,210 --> 00:36:31,530 on. Pleasure. Thank you, Todd. Great to see.