Kevin: Hello, and welcome back to Subspace Radio.
It's me, Kevin,
Rob: and me, Rob,
Kevin: and we're here to talk about Season 2 of Prodigy, episodes 6 through 10.
Rob: Yep.
We are going against the algorithm that has been set up by Netflix.
No, we shall not binge.
We shall go in, uh, incremental, sensible parts and we will not look ahead.
So most of you out there probably gone ahead and watched all 20, but you
can take the slow, more respectable path like Kevin and I are taking.
Kevin: That's right.
We are, we are in no rush to see our futures, uh, as, uh, just as
Wesley Crusher would advise us not to peek at our own futures, that's,
that's, we're taking that advice here
Rob: Excellent work and I'd be very interested to hear if the
mention of said Wesley Crusher was the big spoiler that you were
Kevin: Oh man, it so was.
That, I
Rob: that was mine too.
Kevin: how prominent that was in the episode descriptions.
And I saw it.
I was like, the moment that I saw it, I was like, I don't want to know that.
Rob: You know what would have been a good spoiler?
That thing you just spoiled.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly.
But, uh, yeah, we'll have a lot to talk about Wesley, even
though we knew he was coming.
He was a surprise in some respects, I dare say.
Rob: Yeah, especially like, you know, there's a little piece of me in the
back of my mind, a little bit of, you know, a shard in my heart when
they did the final season of Picard.
You know, with all the old gang back.
I know we had him for a little cameo at the end of season two, but
Kevin: It wasn't great though.
Rob: No, It wasn't a great cameo, it was a shithouse season, pardon my French.
Um.
But, yeah, there was a part of me just going, maybe, just maybe they'll
give, no, but they didn't, so.
But he's back in animated form, beautifully voiced by the patron
saint of nerds, Wil Wheaton.
Kevin: Yeah, and this might be a big call, but I would actually say his acting is
better here than it was in that cameo.
It's like he's, he's figured out how to have fun with the character, or the, the,
the writing has helped him find a fun place with this character that we did
not get in that dour season two of Picard and, and uh, yeah, the cameo was likewise
just weighed down by this sense of seriousness that was pleasantly gone here.
Rob: Very much so, there was a lot of fun, and I mean, you know, I don't know
if Wil Wheaton's done much voiceover work.
I know he was a voice, uh, actor in The Secret of NIMH, one of my
favorite animated films, when he was a young boy, him and Shannon
Doherty, may she rest in peace.
But, um, I don't know how much animated stuff he has done, but he is, you
know, as Kate Mulgrew has been showing, he and her are very accomplished
with their voiceover acting work.
Kevin: All right.
So just like I did last time, uh, I'd like to give us a fast forward
through the summaries of these five episodes, and then we can give our,
our impressions on them as a block.
Sound good?
Rob: Yes.
Yeah.
So we had five episodes, but there were like, there's a two parter in there.
So we've got like, so we've got, so we've got kind of four stories.
Kevin: Oh, and just to tease where we're going with later, in case you haven't seen
it in the episode title already, the thing we picked out of this block of episodes
is planets that are too good to be true.
Rob: Yeah.
Um, uh, I found a little, I was a bit stressed about how could I find it?
Yeah.
I came up with the title and then I went, how am I going to back it up?
You know what you do?
You just find the word "paradise" in a Star Trek title.
And then you know what?
It ain't going to be paradise.
Kevin: No, it's, uh, it's pretty much
Rob: heh heh.
Kevin: We're, we're kicking off this block with season two, episode six, Imposter
Syndrome in which the team plots to borrow the Infinity before it's destroyed.
They create holo doubles that prove to be a little too good, but they
manage to make their escape thanks to a last minute assist from Maj'el.
Then.
in Episode 7, The Fast and the Curious, while using an abandoned
Borg transwarp conduit as a shortcut on their way to Chakotay, the team
is captured by Maje Ekthi, an erratic Kazon who demands that they compete
against trained pilots in a race.
When the Maje is revealed to be a ruler of an army of robots, controlled by
an out of control training computer in pursuit of perfection, Zero
Sacrifices themselves and damages their containment suit beyond repair.
In episode 8, Is There in Beauty No Truth?, Zero makes telepathic
contact with a planet of non corporeal beings from many races.
who promise they can fix Zero's containment suit.
The beings of the planet have all inhabited artificial bodies, enabling
them to experience physical sensations.
The team attends the Feast of Senses, only to discover that it ends with
a lethal celebration of the sense of fear, and that Zero cannot leave
without their new body degrading.
Deciding they belong with their crewmates, though, Zero decides to leave.
In The Devourer of All Things, Part I, arriving at the rendezvous, the
team discover not Chakotay and the Protostar, but a vault belonging to
the Travelers and Wesley Crusher.
Wesley explains that the paradox caused by the Protostar's botched
return has created a hole in the fabric of the multiverse, allowing
the Loom, cosmic scavengers, through the hole to feed on all of reality.
Cornered by the creatures, Wesley escapes with the team into a Supervisor hideout.
Janeway and the Voyager A track the team to the planet, which
is now infested with Loom.
And in The Devourer of All Things, Part II, Commander Tysess
leads an away team with Maj'el.
Ensign Middleton is consumed and all record of his existence is erased, Tysess
evacuates but Maj'el stays behind and is barely rescued by Wesley and the team.
Voyager A comes under attack by the Loom and Janeway lures them
off the ship just in time with some extreme shuttle piloting, ending
with her crash landing on the planet.
Maj'el turns out to be the missing variable in Wesley's calculations,
which enables him to send the team to the Protostar and Chakotay.
And that's where we leave it, with Chakotay looking off into
the sunset on some distant
Rob: With a beard!
Kevin: With a beard, yeah.
He's been there for a while, I guess.
Rob: Yes, eloquently put.
Um, for me, there's a lot of other sci fi stuff that just is
screaming out in these episodes.
A lot of stuff going, ooh, that was done in this, ooh, that was done in that.
That's no derogatory comment to these, uh, stories, it's like, it's a good
thing like what with, um Strange New Worlds have done of going let's lean
into good old classic sci fi elements and components and give it a new twist
and sorta like that honoring element.
Kind of like what The Orville did did as well when they figured
out what they wanted to do.
But yeah, there's some like classic sci fi stuff here to
really sink their teeth into and um
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, watching this, thinking of the conversation you and I would have, I could
not help but see Doctor Who all up and down and sideways through these episodes.
Especially with Wesley, uh, you know, wearing a, a coat and running
through hallways with a companion, like, it was very Doctor Who in parts.
Rob: Yes, and especially Wesley Crusher being the patron saint of nerds, as I've
said, has, you know, leaned in heavily, him and his wife have leaned in heavily to
all manner of Doctor Who cosplay and Star Trek cosplay and all manners of cosplay.
Um, but yeah, especially The Loom, The Loom is very much like a modern
Doctor Who story, um, Father's Day in the Christopher Eccleston era, um,
where, you know, Rose, the Doctor's companion, goes back on her own timeline
and saves her dad when she shouldn't.
And so, therefore the Reapers appear, who are these time monsters that eat away the,
the, the time paradox that has happened.
So, with The Loom appearing, I went, yes, that's very, uh,
that's very Doctor Who esque.
Kevin: Uh, starting at the start of this block the, uh, the Imposter
Syndrome episode with all the holograms and which ones are the real ones
or which ones are the fake ones?
Like, I really enjoyed that.
It was extremely entertaining.
It felt like this season's Mindwalk.
Uh, like the episode from season one where Dal and, uh, uh, Janeway swapped
bodies and a lot of comedy came of it.
This felt like a similar, this was the comedy of the season.
And it wasn't maybe quite as successful as that season one episode, but still, I
put it right up there as very effective.
Rob: Yeah, and it's a good old body swap one as well, which is, uh, you know,
they've, as you said, they've kind of returned to, but they give, give it a
little bit of a, a twist at the end.
Kevin: The Fast and the Curious was probably the, one
of the weaker of the bunch.
Like I did enjoy watching the little shuttles zipping around the race course
there, but apart from the eye candy, there wasn't a lot to this episode.
It was a little unclear to me that, that computer seemed very Borg y.
Rob: Yeah!
Kevin: and in motivation and the fact that it had, it was scavenging from
a Borg transwarp conduit further, like, confused me of, is this meant
to be a, uh, an entity of the Borg or a Borg corruption of a Kazon system,
but it was never made explicit.
And so, uh, it was, yeah, just, I was not really sure what box to classify this
computer in other than, evil computers.
Um, and, but, uh, it seems like this episode was basically a means to an end.
And it was, the end was damage Zero's containment, uh, suit in order
to set up the following episode.
Rob: And sets up, um, something that we've kind of been talking about when
it comes to Zero, and sort of like, is there going to be some way to normalize
him if I do an inverted commas?
And this is the thing we were kind of worried about.
So, um, also I mentioned to the Kazon appearing and I went, oh, it's a Kazon.
Yeah, it's a Kazon.
Kevin: Doesn't really matter that it's a Kazon.
Just is a
Rob: it could have been anything, but I'm going, all right,
you're going with the Kazon.
That's interesting.
Kevin: It's the right corner of the galaxy.
It's nice that as we go back into this, you know, Voyager era region that we're
seeing some of the Voyager era races
Rob: Exactly.
Kevin: that's, that's cool stuff.
Is There in Beauty No Truth?, the heart of our "too-good-to-be-true planets"
themes, I, I didn't really like this one.
Again, the visuals were certainly there, they always are with this
series, but the story irked me a little.
I think we already talked a bit, like, I think you were talking about it
there, is this, this idea that, uh, Zero is attracted to corporeal existence,
expanding that idea to basically all non corporeal entities crave
the seduction of physical sensation.
It, it feels a little, um, to, to borrow a phrase from, uh, Star
Trek VI, it makes the Federation seem like a homo sapiens only club.
Do you remember that line?
It's, it's this, it's, it's an odd thing that, uh, Star Trek, is ostensibly
about embracing diversity in its modern incarnation, and yet there is this,
this, uh, lingering prejudice for a certain form of life, uh, baked into
the fiction, the fictional universe.
I mean, it's hard to get too upset about non corporeal beings being
hard done by given that that is not a thing in, in real life.
But if you accept Star Trek for on its own rule set, then you have
to judge it by those same rules.
And that feels like racism in the future to me.
Rob: Yeah.
It's weird.
I think it's, you know, I think it's more of a, they're getting frustrated with
the fact of, okay, we've created this non corporeal creature and there's so many
possibilities of what we can do with it.
And they've kind of backed themselves into a corner of just going, let's do
something that we've already done before, which is like with Data, like with, um,
the Doctor and Voyager, let's, let's have this trope of, um, you know, what does it
mean to be human, or wanting to be human.
And I know I've talked about there's a lot of big sci fi tropes
repeated here, um, in different franchises and different writing.
But to fall back on something that they have repeated several times
before did seem a bit lazy and, um, there's so much more that you could
explore like they've they've literally contained him in his own shell and
now they've contained him in corporeal form that's gonna, you know, fade off.
It's um, yeah, it's a great concept that they've kind of gone uh, we
don't know what to do with it.
So let's just put him in a let's put him in a let's put him in a round ball and
then let's put him with a couple of legs.
Kevin: it was also just a little bit muddled, this storyline.
The simultaneous reveals of they are going to run through a field and maybe
get themselves killed and if you leave the planet your your body will degrade
and die and those were kind of presented as one atomic surprise, but they're
really two completely different ideas.
Uh, and it's almost like the surprise that your body would degrade was not
enough to drive drama on screen, and so they attached this, this fun run
through the field of dangerous flowers, uh, to it in order to create some
excitement on the screen in the episode.
Rob: Yeah, yeah.
For me it was, um, talking about inspiration from different sci
fi, there's a great sci fi comedy series that you should all know,
everyone, called Red Dwarf.
And there's a great episode, which is a too good to be true, in season six,
called Legion, where they show up and there's this, uh, this humanoid form,
but, you know, entity that's kind of a robot, kind of not, and gives
them all the desires that they want.
And they go, well if, yeah, we're gonna have to leave now.
And he goes, nonsense, you'll stay here until the day you die.
And you go, oh, great.
So I did feel that sense of, here you go Zero, here's your new body.
Oh, but you can't leave, you're staying in this body, but on this
planet, until the day you die.
Kevin: And also every once in a while you have to run through a field and maybe die.
Just to feel something, just to feel something.
Rob: Yes.
But, other than that…
Kevin: The Devourer of All Things, the two parter at the culmination
here felt especially strong to me.
I think the first time through, I was kind of going, I don't know if I'm on
board with this kooky Wesley Crusher.
But on second watch, I just surrendered myself to it, and I have to admit,
it is well written, well performed.
It does a lot of exposition without getting bogged down.
I enjoy it for what it is.
Rob: He walks that balance so beautifully now, Wesley, um, uh, Wil
Wheaton, to be able to be a part of this universe, but also be a fan of it.
There's been many incidents of it, like, uh, Matthew Waterhouse in Doctor Who
appearing as Adric, um, uh, one of the actors in Stargate Universe was a huge
fan, and then became a character like that in the show, where, and, you know,
uh, Wil Wheaton is the perfect embodiment of that, who is, who's like, breathed
so much life into it, and so much life was given to him, especially with his
problems at home, and so Star Trek became his new family, and respected him,
and treated him better than, you know, he's been open and honest about that.
And so to come back into it, um, and hosting like behind the scenes, uh,
documentaries and having talk show panels, um, connected to all these seasons.
And he hosts these things like podcasts and stuff like that with all these
actors, but then to come back into it and his version of Wesley Is like the
all seeing, all knowing, time traveling, dare I say, Doctor Who type character,
but still has that nerdy type love and joy of knowing all these facts.
And it's a beautiful balance of going, He's the Star Trek nerd, but he's
also this multi dimensional, powerful creature manipulating the timelines.
It's a, it's a, I think they got the balance beautiful, and you can see,
the age and experience of, um, Wil Wheaton come out in this, yeah, much far
better than his appearance at the dour end of a dour season of a, you know,
dirge, uh, second season of Picard.
Kevin: There were some subtle moments I really liked, like when he said,
when he looked at the jury rigged, you know, time containment device on
Gwyn's arm and said, I just want to, no, no, The Doctor's done a fine job.
You'll be just fine… for now.
It was just, Um, there was something in the writing that made
it feel especially naturalistic.
That moment of I'll almost mess with this, but maybe not.
Like that whole moment could have been dropped and nothing would have been lost,
but they, they created that beat to, I guess, highlight Wesley's fallibility and
self doubt and the fact that he's second guessing everything he's doing point.
And, and I really enjoyed that stuff.
It made it, it lifted him beyond, like you said, this all knowing, all
seeing, uh, super entity into someone who is still flying by the seat of
his pants and, uh, getting stuff wrong and making mistakes along the way.
Rob: The stakes were real.
That's the excellentness of the writing, to actually, I'm there going, no, no, no.
Wesley has all this experience within, you know, different
dimensions and times, but he's just a human, and he can, he's fallible.
So, unlike Doctor Who, who, you know, when you see Doctor Who, uh, scared,
that's when it's a good episode.
Most of the time he's written like he can just solve every problem.
Um, he or she or them.
Um, But to have Wesley there going, I'm improvising here, I've got to struggle,
and getting to the next point, or finding a hiding space, and sorting stuff out,
and then the sheer luck of, you know, another character showing up, and so
therefore going, no, that's the variable, okay, this works here, really working
on his feet, and the believability of going, this could go pear shaped,
and the real threat of the Loom, um, really manifested itself over two
episodes to really keep that tension up.
It was, yeah, really good stuff.
Kevin: I said in our last episode, the fact that they were using the
improbability of what was happening as a plot point, rather than it.
being left uncommented on and therefore, being unbelievable
to the audience was nice.
And this block of episodes, and particularly Wesley's explanation
of what he's trying to achieve, really cements that of, um, This
sequence of events that we are now about to see has been specifically
chosen from infinite possibilities.
It is the single path that makes resolution possible.
And this kind of, I worry a little bit that this, this is now justification for
the most improbable sequence of events to come like anything can happen now.
And if it seems at all unbelievable, they go, of course it is.
This is the one in a million chance that Wesley spoke of.
So I worry a little bit where the drama is going to come from now that we know
that we're on that path where everything will go right, but the writers have
been doing a good job of writing within that frame already this season, so I
kind of trust them to keep the focus on the characters so that even if the
plot is unbelievable, the impact it has on the characters is worth watching.
Rob: And it's, you know, like we've said many times before, and I've quoted,
uh, Dean Pelton from Community many times, writing time travel is very hard.
Um, and to not make it just a cop out or an easy, you know, get out of jail
free card, they've been working very hard on, as you said, you know, using
it as to move the plot forward as opposed to pushing it aside and just,
wishing it away with a wave of the hand.
Kevin: The one thing that I didn't quite like was how quickly Janeway recognized
Wesley Crusher, despite the scruffy beard unusual costume and the fact
that he was a kid on a starship that Janeway had nothing to do with, apart
from its important role in history.
That she would, uh, at a glance from the side go, Wesley Crusher?
I'm like, eh, I don't know.
This, this is again one of those small galaxy problem moments that I think it
would have been nicer to create just a moment of introduction where he said,
where maybe he recognizes her because he knows all of history and she is
a very important historical figure.
Uh, he could have said, Admiral Janeway, it's me, Wesley Crusher.
And she'd say, From the Enterprise?
You know, something like that would have worked better.
Rob: Yeah.
It did seem very much a case of, uh, let's just,
Kevin: Everyone knows each other cause yeah, they're stars on a TV show.
Rob: Exactly.
Kevin: Anything else you wanted to talk about in this, this block of episodes?
Rob: I'm very excited to see where it goes.
Like we're halfway through, so we've still got, you know, a lot to get through.
And, um, and now that we know, cause we have been talking about the fact
of, you know, Chakotay's out there and are we going to get back to him?
And, but now, um, Chakotay is, yeah, they're there.
They're on the top of
Kevin: We're there and there's a whole second half of the season to come.
So yeah, it feels like it's moving along quickly enough that, um, instead of seeing
the inevitable finish line and counting the episodes until we get there, it feels
like we keep getting to things before I expect them, and it throws us into
the unknown beyond, which is exciting.
I'm also really liking the variety of these episodes.
Like, just in this mix, there's some great standalone stories, some like, you know,
adventure of the week sort of things.
And, you, and they feed and lead back into our big finish.
Uh, it sure feels like these five episode blocks really is how this
season was conceived because that, that, rhythm, uh, is, is even
stronger here after episode 10.
So I wouldn't be surprised if, uh, episode 15 is a similar, big beat finish.
Rob: Definitely.
There's some nice little moments in there as well, like with the Loom's
just taking away one of the crew members and everyone else not remembering
the, but, um, that was, yeah, that type of sci fi, um, chilling type
of an entire life is gone and no one
Kevin: Yeah.
Bit of trivia there, Ensign Middleton is named for and
voiced by one of the producers of season one of Star Trek Prodigy.
So cameo, cameo disappearance,
Rob: Wow.
He's very much aware of, uh, uh, a, a, a major streamer, you know, forgetting
you and wiping you from their existence.
Um, and yeah, and there, and there's a bit of a hotness building up between
our now corporeal character and a certain, um, Vulcan character, dare I
Kevin: Yeah.
Maj'el is, uh, more and more charming, I'd say.
It feels like the, the actor and the character are finding, finding their
feet and, um, There's starting to be more than that Vulcan chill, but like a
personality beyond it that is enjoyable.
Um, and, uh, yeah, that, that moment, um, in the, in the Supervisors'
office, by the way, an amazingly faithful recreation of Gary Seven's
office from Assignment: Earth, uh, the, uh, TOS episode in the 1960s.
is amazing what they've done with CG there.
Um, but yeah, when, when they're on the couch and Maj'el's in their
lap, and she smiles up like a barely Vulcan quirky smile up at Zero.
It's, it's, uh, very charming.
Rob: is.
It's very charming.
And, um, especially because they've been trying to push, you
know, Dal and Gwyn, uh, on and off for the last season and a half.
Um, yeah.
So this is, this is done in a
Kevin: There's actual chemistry here.
I feel like Dal and Gwyn, I have yet to see the chemistry between Dal and Gwyn.
Rob: I keep on saying, Gwyn, you're too good for him, okay?
Liked, um, like Dal grew on me in those five episodes, again,
um, but I'm there going come on Gwyn, you can do better, come on.
Kevin: Well, let's talk about, uh, not quite paradise.
Rob: quite paradise, if it's in Star Trek, if the colony or the planet
looks too good to be true, the truth of the matter is, it probably is.
Kevin: So based on the word paradise, I'm guessing you've got
an original series episode for
Rob: Um, well that was one that you kind of talked about, the, with, uh, yes, so
I skipped ahead to, uh, my old faithful.
Kevin: I was thinking of This Side of Paradise, which is, uh, a different
original series paradise episode.
That's the one, uh, where Spock, gets, uh, drugged by spores and gets all lovey
dovey emotional and he's hanging from the trees and I, I have not watched this
episode lately, so we won't dive into it deeply, uh, long story short, it is a
colony on which everyone is deliriously happy and apparently immortal, um, but
you can never leave because the the spores that make you happy and immortal don't
last if you leave everyone stays on it.
And there's radiation it bad idea to stay as
Rob: Very 60s sci fi.
What is it?
Radiation!
Kevin: It's one of these Spock gets emotional episodes that the fans really
loved back in the day, and Spock is insubordinate to the captain when the
captain tries to, uh, reason with him.
And, uh, yeah, it's, it's very enjoyable.
It's a good episode, I think, worth a rewatch, but I haven't watched it lately.
But definitely matches our template of, uh, too good to be true colonies
with Paradise in the episode name.
Rob: Excellent.
Kevin: That's, uh, Season 1, Episode 25, for anyone who wants to go looking for it.
Rob: Wonderful.
Well, I'll jump ahead to my show, uh, Deep Space Nine.
We're going season two episode 15 and it's just called Paradise.
Kevin: Ooh, I don't remember this one, so refresh my memory,
Rob: I remember this one because it's, uh, the one episode on my, uh,
DVD disc collection that skipped and I can't watch that episode, so I had
Kevin: Oh
Rob: and watch it on Netflix.
So like all, like a couple of, there's a scratch on it, so like a couple of my
discs of The West Wing, I have to go watch it when it's on one of the streamers,
and so I was going through Deep Space Nine on, I got all seven on DVD, through
like a really cheap deal through Sanity.
Anybody remember, everybody remember Sanity?
Wow.
Uh, but I got to episode 15 and the disc started skipping and I went, noooo!
So I had to go watch it.
Anyway, so this is, um, uh, Sisko and O'Brien end up on a colony of people
living all rustic and all, uh, peaceful and harmonious and stuff like that,
but someone there is sick and they go to help them with their technology and
the person in charge of the ship, of the colony goes, no, we have rejected
all forms of technology and modern, uh, science and all that type of stuff and
you will contaminate our person, so they will leave it to whatever to heal them.
And, uh, Sisko and O'Brien kind of fight back, um, and they are punished
for it and they have to sort of like help out around the colony,
um, to be a part of this process.
Kevin: I have vivid memories of Sisko being forced to work the
fields and the optics of that being especially disturbing.
Rob: Yes, and they've also got a, um, a hotbox, like, you know, so out
in the blazing sun and you locked in box and, uh, Sisko is like, you know,
you have to remove your uniform and put on our clothes and, uh, reject
where you come from, and Sisko refuses and puts himself back in the box.
Kevin: How did they end up on this?
Did they go to the colony to provide aid or was it a crash
Rob: um, uh, they're on a reconnaissance, uh, they beam down to the planet,
and then, you know, uh, radiation!
Or, you know, something interferes with the technology so they can't beam back up.
So they have they destroy a relay that's been set up that buffers everything.
So, O'Brien destroys that, and so they can use their phasers and stuff at the end.
But, um, they take the people who, like, cause the, you know, the death of the
woman who died and they take them back up and the others say no, we're staying
here because this is better than what we have, so it's that poetic, grim ending
of going, you can go back into society and they go, no, no, no, we've, you
know, whether it's brainwashing or, yeah, indoctrination or whatever, but they,
the rest of the colony decide to stay.
Kevin: It's an especially TNG ish story.
Like this is early in Deep Space Nine before I feel like it had really found
its identity and the types of stories that it is especially good at telling.
This almost feels like a leftover Next Gen script.
I don't know if you agree.
Rob: They do a lot of those in season one and two.
It isn't until like near the end of season two where they go, Let's
try this thing called the Dominion.
So like the season, there's a big thing at the end of season two.
Um, when I went to back and re watch I went, Oh, I thought they came in
later, but no, it's that early on.
But definitely in season one and two they haven't, they've gone,
yeah, let's do a space station.
But then they do a lot of episodes where they go, Oh, let's get in a
runabout and go onto a different planet.
Kevin: Yeah.
We, we, we, we can do ships too.
We how to that.
Rob: But yeah, this very much feels like a Next Generation leftover as
opposed to the identity it found itself.
Kevin: Yeah, they're on a Runabout and they find an M class planet
that would be great to colonize.
That is not a Deep Space Nine set up.
Rob: That is not Sisko's job.
He's got something else to do.
Kevin: Report it and move on.
on.
cause O'Brien was there.
He was like, Oh, we used to do this all the time the Enterprise.
Let me show you how it's
Rob: Come on.
This is how we did things for seven seasons.
Well, he stayed for five seasons, I think.
Kevin: The leader of the colony, Alixus, is played by Gail Strickland
and, uh, one of those thankless villain roles where she seems Kind of strong
but welcoming at the beginning and very quickly shows a dark side and is
absolutely irredeemable by the end.
Quite a, quite a nice, quite a nice job I thought she does of walking that balance.
Rob: Yeah, early days of Sisko of, um, you know, really showing his, uh,
strength and defiance and, you know, uh, the will of being put into, you
know, putting his body and his mind in harrowing situations and he has to,
um, stay firm to what he believes in.
Kevin: anything else about paradise aspect of this?
Like how, how long does that last where it's like, Ooh, this could be a nice
Rob: Yeah, it, it, it's, it's, it's a weird one because it's not sort of
like, it's not completely paradise, as in you have everything you desire.
It's more the paradise of the simple life of going back to, you know, join
the simple pleasures of, of just farming and living on the land and not having
to worry about the hustle and bustle.
So it's that sort of like, almost Norman Rockwell version
Kevin: Yeah.
It's a nice questioning of that, uh, that fetish, if you will, that
so often in modern life, we're like things used to be better, you
know, back when we had tetanus.
Rob: You know, where we, you know, where the minorities that were
persecuted didn't speak up so much.
Kevin: That's right.
Rob: gosh.
But yeah, so it's not completely paradise in the sense of you
can have everything you desire.
It's this case of, Yeah, living the simple life is, you know, isn't that beautiful?
Um, but you can never leave.
It's not one of the best episodes, but it's one of the most memorable ones.
It's not, as you said, it's not quintessentially Deep Space Nine.
It's very much generic.
Uh, You know, travel to a planet, find out that planet isn't as beautiful as they
say it is, and then try and get off that planet, which is very un-Deep Space Nine.
Kevin: Yeah, it's funny.
I've picked one from early next gen as well that is similarly a somewhat
janky episode, but charming for it.
Um, and I think it's also probably no coincidence that the episode of Prodigy
that we're inspired by, Is There in Beauty No Truth, is also a not quite
right episode that doesn't quite work.
This feels like it's such a, a template for Star Trek that it is
almost a cliché by definition, and makes it really hard to rise above
that cliché and tell a completely functional story on, on that framework.
So the one I chose is Justice, uh, Season 1, Episode 8 of The
Next Generation, which, um, fans will remember as the orgy planet.
Rob: Is that where they, where they're barely dressed and they go
Kevin: They're barely dressed.
Everyone runs.
Rob: Yes, I remember Riker running, very, yeah, very happy to be running
with half naked men and women.
Kevin: They all wear, uh, white outfits with lots of cutouts
and lots of skin showing.
The all have their nipples
Rob: Yeah, I do remember a lot of side boob.
Kevin: There's a lot of side boob.
A lot of conspicuous massaging with oils in the council chamber.
Like they say, let's go to the council chambers.
And when they get there, it is a literal orgy going on.
Uh, and it, it's, I feel like this is the peak of Gene Roddenberry showing
everything he wanted to do with Star Trek, but usually couldn't get away with.
Um, so not only does this have like the sexually freed culture, uh, that
seemed to be Gene's fantasy way back to the 1960s, but it also had a god thing.
They actually used the words god thing in this episode, and this, this planet
is overseen by a transdimensional being that exists in orbit and feels
responsibility for the wellbeing of the natives on the planet below
who worship it as a god thing.
And that, that idea of what is a god, what is worship of a god, what
if god is just an alien being with science beyond our understanding,
that is also a continual fascination for Gene Roddenberry over the years
that he comes back to again and again, perhaps most poignantly in Star Trek V.
What we have here is basically the same building blocks of Star Trek V, plus
orgies, or at least as close as you could get away with on primetime TV in 1987.
Rob: I'm trying not to overthink it too much about, like, but it is that
thing in Star Trek, which we talked about before, with sex, um, is that, you
know, it seems like the dangers of sex.
So it seems, you know, I don't want to be befouling the name of Roddenberry, but you
know, he seemed to have a lot of issues with sex and sexuality and making it sort
of like something that was sinister, as opposed to, you know, Oh, it's free, it's,
it's free love here, but at what cost?
Kevin: I'm interesting in querying that, because I, I want to say
that the, the sexual freedom of the inhabitants of this planet is
almost beside the point to the plot.
The plot could have happened entirely without it.
It is just there for set dressing, or set undressing, as the case may be.
They beam down, there's lots of, like, close hugs, and, you know,
Worf is, is hugged by, uh, this, the strange woman, he goes, Nice planet.
And Wesley Crusher, this is a very much a Wesley Crusher episode, which is
part of why I chose it, Wesley Crusher is intensely uncomfortable, uh, as,
as he tries to navigate just how much should he be leaning into the native
culture here and doing as the Romans do?
And how much should he be, you know, being, a 16 year old boy, as
he is at this point in the series.
There, there is a lot of, you know, people writhing together
on the bench in the background, none of that plays into the plot.
The plot here is very much about justice, just like the title
of the episode would suggest.
And Wesley accidentally falls into a bed of flowers, um, and this breaks
a minor law, but it turns out that the peace that they have found in
this culture is a result of extremely draconian law where if you break any
law, no matter how minor, uh, you run the risk of being executed for it.
There is a part of the planet at any given time that is an enforcement zone,
and if you break any law in one of those zones at the time you are put to death.
Rob: He's playing a ball game and, you know, despite, he wasn't
in the council chambers, so it wasn't that type of ball game.
It was outside.
Kevin: Yes.
He tries to explain baseball to people who've never heard of baseball
and he talks about how you need a long stick about this wide and,
and the hand gestures are a little uncomfortable in the context as well.
But, um, it's all completely innocent, um, I, I stand by that.
Rob: Ha ha ha!
Kevin: Look, I will stipulate to Gene Roddenberry having an uncomfortable and at
times problematic relationship with sex.
I think he managed to keep that out of this script, mostly, and
mostly used it as set dressing in this script to make a planet of
the week more titillating to visit.
Rob: I can see a writer's room of them there going, maybe, uh, D.
C.
Fontana was there, and she goes, well, maybe we can do one about draconian
laws and about an idyllic world, and they're all doing this, but,
you know, they do something minor, and they have to be executed, and
Gene just comes and goes, uh, sex.
Sex.
It's got to be sex.
Kevin: I've already bought all of the lube.
So everyone get started.
Rob: I've got it, okay?
It's out of the budget.
It's all, it's got to be in this now.
Kevin: I think what's charming about this show or this episode is just
the fact that it is quite a, um, a compact, straightforward morality tale.
Like Wesley gets into trouble, the planet maintains its paradise by
enforcing laws without question.
Picard beams down and makes a speech that says justice cannot
exist as long as laws are absolute.
The powerful alien is swayed by the speech and they are allowed to
beam up and go on their merry way.
The end.
And they throw in a lot of sex in the background to pad out the
remaining 20 minutes of the episode.
But it's, it's, it's a fun, like, the nice thing about early episodes of
Star Trek is they are often simple and straightforward and it is a very
pure example of Star Trek on paper.
It's a morality tale wrapped in a science fiction premise.
Rob: Very much so.
And it's a case of judging somebody else from our standards as opposed from theirs.
Kevin: Gates McFadden does some nice work as Wesley's mum, obviously.
She's on the ship and gets news that her son is, uh, going to be executed
and does a nice job of, like, trying to maintain her professionalism and
work through the situation while choking back tears, and she snaps
at Picard on a couple of occasions.
She snaps at Data, who, who admits, wow, I'm, uh, you're right,
Captain, I do tend to babble.
It's just like, good, good early character building stuff here as well.
Rob: Excellent.
Yeah.
And especially in that this, you know, this is a season one.
So Picard is still very, you know, very stiff and stern
and, and a little bit crusty.
So to have Gates be able to, you know, let loose a bit and go, you
know, show some emotion to everybody.
That's a, a great step.
I do remember, I do remember that episode very much when I was a
young man watching Star Trek.
I'm going,
Kevin: Yeah, it would be seared into your synapses.
Rob: is seared into somewhere.
That's for sure.
Kevin: And look, just in case there was any doubt that this episode belongs on
our list of too good to be true planets, the final line in the cold open of
this episode is Picard saying about the planet, Well, let's just hope this doesn't
turn out to be too good to be true.
Rob: To quote Andre Braugher in Brooklyn Nine Nine, VINDICATION!
Kevin: That's the only one I brought.
Did you bring…?
Rob: I've got one more.
I know it's not really classic, but it is, and it is one we have talked
about before, but god, it's a doozy.
It's an amazing one.
So we'll just talk about it briefly.
Um, the first season of Strange New Worlds, episode six, let's talk
about the masterpiece that is Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach.
Uh, incredible episode that is, you know, it is too good to be true.
This perfect society that is founded on the most horrifying of sacrifices,
um, and, the worst, you know, the worst sacrifice, we have to watch it.
We are just as helpless as Pike watching this young person being,
you know, put to their death to energize and save an entire planet.
It is the quintessential too good to be true, and see the cost of it
is played out beautifully in this strong opening for Strange New Worlds.
Kevin: I have to go back and watch this one, uh, and I don't know if you've
watched it lately, but I do remember enjoying it at the time, but when I
think back on it, the broad strokes of it, are a little suspect to me.
What made this society so good, so too good to be true?
I only have vague memories of, like, platforms suspended in air, and it's
a very kind of, liberal artsy sort of society, where, where people get to
be scientists, and artists and things.
And I don't remember quite what the nature of this utopia was.
Can
Rob: Yeah.
It was that very much a case of, you know, science is forward, art is forward.
Um, you know, there was medicine and culture and all that type of stuff was
quite advanced and, you know, people lived and were healthy, healthy living
and, uh, you know, lived past the usual time and all that type of stuff.
Kevin: I think what bothered me is, if as is revealed in that episode,
and spoilers for season one of Strange New Worlds, if you are going to power
your planet by stealing the life of innocent young people every now and
then, you should do, you should be a little more judicious with your use of
power than suspending all your buildings in midair for no apparent reason.
Like, it just seemed wasteful.
It seemed uneconomical.
You could stretch those young person sacrifices a lot further
than I felt like they were.
Rob: Instead of yeah, you could expand the amount of time between each
if suspens Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're being
Kevin: They clearly didn't feel bad about it.
They were taking it for granted as a power
Rob: Oh, I think we can remember, they did not take it there's You know,
those people rebelling trying to free the kids, but the majority of the
population, oh yeah, they'd signed their, they'd signed their life away.
They'd made their deal with the devil.
They were very happy with, to sacrifice quite a lot of children so they
could keep their floating buildings.
Kevin: Well, there you go.
Yeah, that is, that is definitely a modern incarnation of the
too good to be true planet.
Rob: Yeah, and that's, um, we've
Kevin: There's always something wrong.
If they don't have problems, they just have secret problems.
Yeah, why are we there?
Rob: Exactly.
Exactly.
Relate back to Doctor Who as well.
If they have a beautiful time, why is it being shown?
It's not going to be shown.
That's all the adventures they have off screen.
Kevin: To explore strange new worlds, find out what's wrong with them,
and destroy their evil computers.
That's, that's what is really
Rob: And have weird ideas of sexual liberalism.