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In this episode, I'm chatting with Kristen Anderson, a freelance fashion designer specializing

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in lingerie and swim for startup brands. Over the last three years, Kristen's freelance

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career has grown so much, it's transitioned in a big way. She actually wound

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up turning her freelance career into a full fledged fashion design agency.

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Our conversation took many interesting turns, but some of the key things we talked about

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include how she built out her agency and started hiring other

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freelancers to work for her. How she's optimized her LinkedIn

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profile and website so clients can find her easily. How she

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switched to a retainer only pricing model after hourly and project

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based pricing were not working for her. And last, how she's building her own

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intimates brand on the side, which includes spending five weeks in Sri

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Lanka earlier this year. It is a super fun and inspiring

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conversation. You're going to love it. Let's get to it. Kristen, welcome to the podcast

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again. You and I were just chatting before I record. It's been about three years

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since you were on the show and there are a lot of exciting updates

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that I cannot wait to hear with you and your freelance career, your freelance

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business. Let us know. First, we'll point everybody back to the original

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episode where you came on so people can get the full backstory. But

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first, please introduce yourself in a few sentences and let us know who you are

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and what you do in the fashion industry. Sure. My name is Kristen Anderson and

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I've been in the industry for about 14 years now. I work

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with emerging and startup brands to help them build and

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develop their collections from beginning concept through

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production. And that's a little bit about me.

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Yeah, and you're pretty niche because before,

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as soon as we got on the call, I was nerding out on your

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zoom handle, literally says lingerie and

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swim expert. Yeah. You specialize in that

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space. Yes, absolutely. I have been

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pretty much dedicated to the swim and intimate space for my entire career.

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So I decided to cancel any other projects

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in ready to wear and or baby kids, anything like that,

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because it doesn't light me up and I am not very experienced in

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those realms. So anytime I feel like I have that kind of

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job come up, it gives me a lot of stress. And also it's

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not my zone of genius. So I feel like, why would I want to spend

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my time doing the things that are really challenging and don't light me

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up versus the things that I know I'm really talented at and what

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I love doing? Yeah, totally. Okay, so

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as you and I chatted about in your first interview, which I'm going to double

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check here with episode 117, so we'll link

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to that in the show. Notes, everybody, but just

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double checking that now. I had it in my head, of course, yeah, 117,

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you had a career in the industry. You worked in house, you dabbled in

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freelancing. It was a little bit of a mess. You didn't totally know what you

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were doing. Then you kind of figured things out. You started getting a lot of

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traction. You quit your full time job. You leaned into

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freelancing. That was when we chatted three years ago. So

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three years ago, you had left your job. You were

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freelancing exclusively. Now

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you have a team. You work with other freelancers, get

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us up to date on sort of what's happened over the past three years, and

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then I'm going to dig into each of those things. I'm going to ask you

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how you actually got that success. Yeah, absolutely. So last time we

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met yeah, I was pretty much I had one intern

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at the time that we had last spoke, so her name is

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Jasmine. She's actually still part of my team. Yeah, she

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went from being an intern and she was with me for her student

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co op at Drexel, and then

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she stayed on as a part time assistant. And when she graduated, she ended

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up becoming my first full time employee. So that was really amazing.

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But so I only had Jasmine that was helping me as an intern when we

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last spoke. So over that course of time, I

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had hired a virtual assistant. I think actually, no, I had a virtual

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assistant at the time, but I think I went through some transition periods with

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different virtual assistants and trying to figure out what did I actually need when it

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comes to virtual assisting, it's. A serious learning

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curve. Yeah, you just don't know

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until you start dabbling into had. I had my virtual assistant

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and I had Jasmine last time we spoke, but since then we've grown. We have

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a few more people on our team. I traded off the virtual assistant for somebody

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with more of a marketing background. Instead,

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I found that I didn't really need the virtual assistant as it was

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mostly doing things around my personal life schedule that I just

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didn't have a whole lot of time for, like setting up doctors appointments and

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making things that I would not make the time

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for. Doing things that I would not make the time for. But yeah,

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at the end of 2020, I feel like it wasn't

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much different. But by 2021, I had met

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Monica, who is a technical designer that is also part of my team now.

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Okay. And Monica and I have been working together since early

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2021. How'd you guys meet? So it was kind of

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interesting. She replied to

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a job feeler I kind of had put out on LinkedIn for a

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CLO 3D designer. Okay. It was interesting because

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at the time, she didn't have any experience in Clow 3D, but she was

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really keen on technical design and wanted to learn it.

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So she kind of just reached out and told me that she was

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interested, wanted to learn, wanted to see what I thought about that,

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and honestly, we kind of just started

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trying each other out almost immediately. It was like two months

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later, maybe. And she was like, okay, I'm thinking about leaving my full

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time job. Can I have some project based work for

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you at the moment? And we can see how that feels.

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We clicked so immediately, so I just kind of gave her the shot,

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and eventually she actually took some time off and went on

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her own little sabbatical journey because I had done that previously.

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And when Monica came back at the end of 2021, she had

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really known figured out all of Chloe and how to

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use it. And so she left and came back as a

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transformed designer. So it was really cool. That's cool. Okay.

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And I love that this is all happening, like peak Pandemic.

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Okay, so you get Monica and

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keep going. Yeah. So, I mean, Monica came on in March of

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2021. I had also been working with

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Riley, who is now the marketing side of my business.

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She had reached out in October or November of

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2020. People just reach out to me, and

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if I vibe with them, I try to meet them. If I

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feel like Synergy, then I'll tell them like, hey, I don't have anything for you

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right now, but stay close by. Remind me. Don't

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forget that. Tell me you exist every now and then so that I could come

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back to you. And if I could give you a project, and if I could

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throw you a project right away, I mean, I will, but if I can't,

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just don't let me forget you. So Riley had reached out in

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2020, and then she lost her job. At some point through the

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Pandemic, there was like another period, and then it came back.

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So Riley was trying to figure out what she was going to do. She actually

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had taken one of your courses, I believe, which had made her reach out to

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me, which is kind of like a funny full. Oh, is

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she in Fast, my freelance program? I think it was

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fast. Yeah. That's the only program we have that would

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actually initiate someone to do Reach Out. Yeah.

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Otherwise the programs are more technical, like Illustrator

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and tech packs and stuff. I'm pretty sure that is what she

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did. You launched that in the Pandemic at the beginning of it?

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Kind of. I mean, it existed before the Pandemic, so

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yeah, it would have been ongoing then. It would have been available then. Yeah, she

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could have been in it. Okay, yeah. Then definitely that was the one she had

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because she told me about you and how she had

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heard about reaching out to people and all of your thoughts on

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just try just put something out there and see what they say.

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And so she did that, and then

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her full time gig was not lighting her up, so she was working a full

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time job and side hustling with me as much as she could. And she

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was working at a uniform company, and she's a designer and she

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lived in Ohio, so there wasn't a whole lot of opportunities for Riley

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to go out and find new fashion jobs. So

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once we started working together for a little while, a new opportunity kind of

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arose where my virtual assistant at the time was leaving.

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And I was like, I don't know if I actually need another virtual assistant or

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if I need somebody else that actually knows more about fashion

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and knows how to talk the lingo and speak about it

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on social media, because that was kind of what I was struggling with at

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the time. And social media was really important for the business, it seemed.

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Anyways. Lots of different tangents there. Okay, yeah, I

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want to talk about that. Let's just pause and talk

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about that. Social media was really important for the business.

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I mean, it seemed yeah.

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Honestly, I think social media is already, like, going through this

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really weird renaissance of things.

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I don't know what to do with it. I feel like we put time and

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energy into it and it kind of goes into the void. And

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I also recognize that you have to have a presence because

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there's this thought of, like, if I can't find you on social media,

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you're not real. Right? Yeah. So you have to put

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yourself out there. You have to be a content creator if you have a business

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in this kind of space. And it still feels

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very much like you have to do these things even if

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they are sort of devoid of. Payoff,

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even if you're directly not getting the clients through that, it's

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like you feel this higher level obligation to just keep doing

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it. Absolutely. Because if you die on social

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media, are you dead in real life? You die in real

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life. That's literally what I was thinking. Yeah. Are you specifically

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talking instagram? I am semi specifically talking Instagram because

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I think Instagram is like the pits right now, for sure. I mean, I

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was looking at yours right before this call, and I noticed you took some kind

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of breaks off of it too. It seems like six months

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has been the best decision of my life. And guess what? It's not me posting

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on there now. Yeah, I have someone on my team doing it.

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It's a very toxic place for me. I do not

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want to be there. It's not healthy. Yeah, I totally agree. And if it

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was up to me, social media with

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I don't think it's doing benefits for us at this point in a lot of

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ways, and I think it's also not beneficial to brands at the

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moment that much either. I don't feel like they're flourishing because

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of social media. So are you guys still kind of

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trying to actively, regularly post? Yeah. I mean, we have a

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presence, and I think we post like it's our portfolio

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and we show off our clients and we talk about the things we're working

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on and relevant blog posts we have, but we're not.

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Necessarily. There was a point in time where I was making a whole bunch of

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reels and it was

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like I don't think I ever once got business

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from one of my instagram reels either. I think almost

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nothing came back from it. Yeah, not in a

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real fully tangible yes, that came from

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Instagram. Yes, that was 100% from there.

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It's always hard to tell where, but most of my inquiries and most people find

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me on either LinkedIn or Google. Okay, so

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yeah, let's talk about that because I think it's

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easy to get sucked down this like, oh, I have to have this Instagram presence.

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And I teach that you don't I very adamantly say,

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forget it if you really want to be on there, because you

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are going to be reaching out to brands there, or something like set up a

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nine by nine grid or three by three nine square grid that just

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feels like a portfolio. Like you don't need to be posting regularly. Just get that

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presence up there that feels really cohesive and niche and then be done.

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So let's talk about clients then. So clients are

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finding you on LinkedIn and Google. What talk about this

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because I hear the LinkedIn thing sometimes. I don't hear

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a lot of people on Google unless they're super niche, which you

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mean. I think that definitely helps. I think being hyper

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niche is somewhat helpful. I think it's also tricky. I mean,

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Google in general, it's hard when you have a service based

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business and it's also

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tangentially connected to the e commerce space because when

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it is, it actually becomes hard to find people like us.

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Because when you search for a lingerie designer, you

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find designer lingerie, not a lingerie designer.

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Oh, right, okay. I guess unless they're putting

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the qualifier like freelancer in there. Yes,

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you have to have either that word or something else. I did have the

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word freelance in my web page for a long time, but I

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also took it off more recently because it didn't feel

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connected quite to what I am now. Because I'm your business.

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Like an agency. Yeah, I don't know what you call. Yourself, but

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yeah, I call it an agency at this point. But it's

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just so weird because it's like people do find me on Google. I think part

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of why they are able to find me on Google is because I've been building

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a lot of educational content and blog posts over the I think, you

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know, if you look for what are lab dip? That is

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something that almost nobody ever covered on the internet. And that's something

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that people find on my website and they go to it

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and there's just weird little things kind of like those

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that are just like, this is so freaking random. And nobody ever

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talked about it. Totally. So that's so

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interesting. Okay, so you've built out your blog, which sounds like is

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mostly an educational platform. You work with smaller startup brands,

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so you're specifically thinking, like, what types of things

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might they be? Googling? And then you create that resource and then they Google it.

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You come up because like you said, a lot of these topics are stuff that

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a lot of people aren't really blogging. There's not a ton of content out there.

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It's not super saturated. It's not like how to lose weight or how to get

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a six pack that's super saturated. But in our niche, I think there's a lot

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of interesting opportunity. So, okay, you've got these blog posts

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and people are finding you that way, and then they've got some type of

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contact form or something. And is that the funnel? That's part

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of it, yes. We have a contact form for clients. We have a

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contact form for newsletter, like people who just want to sign up and subscribe

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for a newsletter. Sure. We also have a couple of different

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courses available on our website, lead Generation things

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as well, to help people find us and get

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us. We have a checklist for fashion

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founders who are just starting off the fundamentals that you kind of need

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to have for building a brand. Another one we have is

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like an entrepreneur quiz to tell you what kind of fashion entrepreneur

249
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you are. And it gives you guidelines for if this is you, then

250
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you might struggle here. And if you're struggling here, then get help

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with somebody that has this experience or

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yeah, okay. I have to throw out a disclaimer to everyone listening

253
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because I know it could turn into very

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shiny object syndrome or overwhelm of

255
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like, oh, well, then I need to start doing all this blogging, and I need

256
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to start like I need a lead magnet and a quit. It can get really

257
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overwhelming really quickly. So I want to be mindful that this is not how you

258
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started your freelance career. This is how

259
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you've now strategically built it out once you were

260
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established. Now you have a team, you have help. It takes

261
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time to build out this type of a presence and platform.

262
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Absolutely. This is not an overnight thing. I was

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literally just on a call with my team earlier and we're building SOPs

264
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for our whole business, basically, and just trying to streamline things.

265
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And I'm telling them I'm like, guys, this is not something that I expect you

266
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to finish in a day. It's going to be like a long process and that's

267
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what it is like, creating content, creating anything. It's like

268
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a long time before you see the churn of success that actually

269
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comes from it. And you do not need all of this to get started.

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Yeah, no, like, you got started as we talked about,

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doing just basic outreach. Like some, I think cold some

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through your network. But you didn't have this massive presence or anything?

273
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No, I barely had a portfolio

274
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website when I started. Barely. And you were able to build up enough

275
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to quit your job and have this amazing

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so, all right, so you're getting people through Google, and then you said

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LinkedIn to talk to me about that. How's LinkedIn working for

278
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you? Well, I've realized recently that I've become kind

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of more influential on LinkedIn versus Instagram

280
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especially. I cap myself getting a

281
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lot more followers on LinkedIn versus Instagram.

282
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I'm more interested in the content on LinkedIn personally because it's like

283
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business related and I'm always interested in new books and finding

284
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out what's going on in the industry and whatnot. So I just find myself on

285
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there more. And when you're on a platform

286
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and I have a very filled out portfolio

287
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or not portfolio profile on LinkedIn, I tried to

288
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get reviews and recommendations and as much as I could,

289
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I tried to fill out the fullest profile on LinkedIn I

290
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could so that I can be found. And I think at the end

291
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of the day, it's just posting content and putting it out there and

292
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repeatedly asking people, do you need

293
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help? If you're looking for somebody, here's what our team does, and

294
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you just have to put yourself out there again and again. And I know it

295
00:18:00,972 --> 00:18:04,646
feels painful sometimes. Okay, what exactly does

296
00:18:04,668 --> 00:18:07,986
that look like, though? Because you're like, okay, I am posting

297
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content regularly and then saying, hey, if you need help, walk

298
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us through exactly that process. What are you posting? Well,

299
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most often I would say we are posting our blog

300
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posts. That would be like, educational content we share. But

301
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it also might be like, I read a news article and I thought it was

302
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interesting, and I might not necessarily put a clear

303
00:18:30,276 --> 00:18:33,314
call to action, and it might just be like me commenting on it, but people

304
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still see me commenting on stuff about sustainable

305
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fashion and how she in is

306
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,900
disgusting. It's all of the things.

307
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So I think that's part of it. But another example is

308
00:18:49,130 --> 00:18:52,886
a few weeks ago, it was a picture of my

309
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face and it was just me, like, saying, hello. It's been a while since I

310
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put my face out here. I usually am behind the scenes doing

311
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the stuff that you don't ever see. And

312
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:08,234
if you're interested in learning more, we have

313
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an opening in July or something. Like, I put a little thing at the end

314
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of it. We have space available if you're

315
00:19:15,028 --> 00:19:18,878
interested. It works sometimes, and sometimes

316
00:19:18,964 --> 00:19:22,494
it's like a flop on LinkedIn. Your

317
00:19:22,532 --> 00:19:25,982
posts don't always magically take off, but sometimes they're successful.

318
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And usually I find that pictures of your face, people

319
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like seeing faces. So I would definitely

320
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suggest, if you're trying to get your face out there, trying to network, put your

321
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face out there and say who you are and introduce yourself and tell

322
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people what you like. To work on and what you're good at and sell

323
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yourself right there. Yeah. And you're doing this

324
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on your personal profile? This is not a business page.

325
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Yeah, I do it on my personal profile because that's where I have the

326
00:19:55,648 --> 00:19:59,242
following engagement. Yeah. I honestly don't think that a lot of people

327
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interact very much with business pages on LinkedIn either.

328
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They like them and they'll like a post, but they don't comment on things

329
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as often. And I feel like those things end up in the dead zone.

330
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I would comment do it as yourself, try to build

331
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connections, get your face out there. Yeah. It's

332
00:20:18,318 --> 00:20:22,066
really nice when you do it enough because if you are in a

333
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niche and you niche down enough, people actually start

334
00:20:25,848 --> 00:20:29,686
to know you. And they do. Totally. And

335
00:20:29,788 --> 00:20:33,414
yeah, I think it's nice to think about doing a well

336
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rounded having a well rounded type of presence there. Right. Like you said, sometimes

337
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you're maybe commenting on an article or maybe you're sharing it to

338
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begin with and you're sharing some of your opinion like an op ed type of

339
00:20:44,768 --> 00:20:48,406
piece. Right. And then sometimes you're

340
00:20:48,438 --> 00:20:52,262
sharing content of your own that you've created, which is like educational.

341
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And arguably you could do that without having created that whole blog post in the

342
00:20:55,604 --> 00:20:59,194
first place. So for people that to not get overwhelmed with creating a whole blog

343
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is like, hey, here's a tip on, think

344
00:21:03,028 --> 00:21:06,686
about what is your ideal customer, where they're stuck, right. Or

345
00:21:06,708 --> 00:21:09,378
what's something, a question they ask a lot and then just post that as like

346
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a little educational tip, right, directly in LinkedIn. Yeah,

347
00:21:12,968 --> 00:21:16,738
absolutely. That's a great idea. I've also seen other people and I

348
00:21:16,744 --> 00:21:20,066
just need to take up myself on this, but little image

349
00:21:20,098 --> 00:21:23,846
carousels or galleries of instructions and tips and ideas that they made in

350
00:21:23,868 --> 00:21:27,570
canva stuff that's simple, easy, not super

351
00:21:27,660 --> 00:21:31,510
crazy wordy. Just like big step instructions.

352
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Like do this if you want that. Totally.

353
00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:39,466
And then the third type is being a little bit more

354
00:21:39,488 --> 00:21:43,246
personable and then sharing about who you are, what you do with some type of

355
00:21:43,268 --> 00:21:46,910
soft call to action. So it's a variety of all the different things.

356
00:21:47,060 --> 00:21:50,590
Are you active on there regularly? Are you posting or

357
00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:54,254
doing something every day? I would

358
00:21:54,292 --> 00:21:57,418
say I don't always post things

359
00:21:57,524 --> 00:22:01,054
on my own posts every day, but I would just generally

360
00:22:01,102 --> 00:22:04,850
say I'm poking around there just about every day making

361
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,210
comments. Not always like

362
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,830
commenting though. Sometimes it's just liking things throughout the day.

363
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:15,206
It just depends on my mood too and how much time I have to do

364
00:22:15,228 --> 00:22:18,566
that because I tend to do it in the morning and I also tend to

365
00:22:18,588 --> 00:22:22,134
just post in the morning in general on LinkedIn because I feel like that's

366
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when I actually think I learned something a long time ago. And

367
00:22:25,984 --> 00:22:29,706
it's like something about CEOs are on LinkedIn early because that's when

368
00:22:29,728 --> 00:22:33,326
they wake up and they're like and then the

369
00:22:33,348 --> 00:22:37,086
people who are on LinkedIn at noon and lunchtime, and they're like the

370
00:22:37,108 --> 00:22:39,630
slackers who don't care about oh, my gosh.

371
00:22:40,930 --> 00:22:44,550
Wow. Okay, so you're that CEO

372
00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:48,206
that's up there every morning. Well, I'm an early waker,

373
00:22:48,238 --> 00:22:51,746
and I just find that I'm looking at it for news more

374
00:22:51,768 --> 00:22:55,526
than fashion news and headlines in our space more than

375
00:22:55,548 --> 00:22:58,694
anything. But yeah, I don't know. I think that

376
00:22:58,732 --> 00:23:01,320
commentary got warped in my brain at some.

377
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:08,902
So then you're getting clients through that

378
00:23:08,956 --> 00:23:12,380
various engagement on LinkedIn as well as Google.

379
00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:16,906
Are you doing any more outreach, or is everything pretty much inbound these

380
00:23:16,928 --> 00:23:20,634
days? A lot of it is inbound these days. Although I would have to say

381
00:23:20,672 --> 00:23:24,494
that I probably should be doing more outbound because I

382
00:23:24,532 --> 00:23:28,334
feel like I have totally slacked on that. And we're kind of

383
00:23:28,372 --> 00:23:31,914
in a little bit of a lull where we're not super duper

384
00:23:31,962 --> 00:23:35,566
busy. But I also kind of designed that by nature because I've

385
00:23:35,598 --> 00:23:39,426
been crazy stressed lately, because on top of

386
00:23:39,448 --> 00:23:43,122
this, I also have another business of my own brand that I've been working on

387
00:23:43,176 --> 00:23:46,998
for two and a half years. And it's crazy,

388
00:23:47,084 --> 00:23:50,914
and it's been so hard. Is it lingerie

389
00:23:50,962 --> 00:23:54,386
or swim? Yes, it's lingerie. Well, not lingerie

390
00:23:54,418 --> 00:23:57,702
necessarily, but, like, bras and underwear. Okay. Got you

391
00:23:57,836 --> 00:24:01,626
underwear, dressy. Yeah. Okay. And so what are you

392
00:24:01,648 --> 00:24:05,194
doing with that? Well, it's become this crazy

393
00:24:05,312 --> 00:24:08,986
beast, but I have been trying to

394
00:24:09,088 --> 00:24:12,922
make a more comfortable underwire alternative along

395
00:24:12,976 --> 00:24:16,414
with me and my team, not just me, but I have a co

396
00:24:16,452 --> 00:24:20,126
founder, and we've been working on this for quite some time. We've been

397
00:24:20,148 --> 00:24:23,550
using 3D printing to reengineer what an underwire

398
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:27,346
bra essentially could be and give you the shape of

399
00:24:27,368 --> 00:24:30,546
an underwire without the feeling of an underwire, because

400
00:24:30,648 --> 00:24:34,318
underwires are like they're

401
00:24:34,334 --> 00:24:36,950
garbage. They're garbage.

402
00:24:37,610 --> 00:24:40,870
Also, at the same time, there's a large degree of women

403
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:44,694
who a can't not wear underwires because they

404
00:24:44,732 --> 00:24:48,374
need just like, they want the

405
00:24:48,412 --> 00:24:52,230
look that an underwire gives, you know, because it's

406
00:24:54,010 --> 00:24:57,542
a squishy bralette. Yeah. Shape and round.

407
00:24:57,606 --> 00:25:01,134
Barbie boobs is what we like to call them. Barbie boobs. Yeah.

408
00:25:01,252 --> 00:25:05,086
Okay. I'm like, I don't care how they look. I just need

409
00:25:05,108 --> 00:25:08,718
to be comfortable. I feel you. I

410
00:25:08,724 --> 00:25:11,760
mean, some women are less care.

411
00:25:12,370 --> 00:25:15,646
But I get what you mean. We all have different feelings about our bodies and

412
00:25:15,668 --> 00:25:19,266
shapes and whatnot. Okay, cool. So where are you guys at

413
00:25:19,288 --> 00:25:22,658
with. Actually, it's funny because

414
00:25:22,824 --> 00:25:26,310
Bridget and I, my co founder, we went to Sri Lanka in

415
00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:30,086
March for five. Yeah, it

416
00:25:30,108 --> 00:25:33,906
was crazy pants. We worked directly with a manufacturer

417
00:25:33,938 --> 00:25:37,626
there. We basically found out that the manufacturer that we were working with was not

418
00:25:37,648 --> 00:25:41,370
going to work, which was very disappointing.

419
00:25:42,270 --> 00:25:46,086
We also didn't get quite as far as we had expected,

420
00:25:46,198 --> 00:25:49,674
which was also not the best. But we have

421
00:25:49,712 --> 00:25:53,374
recently engaged with somebody locally that is helping us, and so

422
00:25:53,412 --> 00:25:57,198
we're trying to wrap up what we have in our

423
00:25:57,284 --> 00:26:00,766
roster right now in the next six weeks. By the end of

424
00:26:00,788 --> 00:26:04,574
August, I am hoping that we have something that we can take as

425
00:26:04,612 --> 00:26:08,338
a file and give it to an injection molder so that we can actually make

426
00:26:08,504 --> 00:26:12,242
a physical mold of the thing. We've been 3D printing for two years

427
00:26:12,296 --> 00:26:16,030
because basically we've never seen it in the real material.

428
00:26:16,110 --> 00:26:19,926
We've only seen it in 3D printed materials. And we need to get to this

429
00:26:19,948 --> 00:26:23,542
next step so that we can get there. Oh my gosh. Wow.

430
00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:27,446
Five weeks in Sri Lanka. That's amazing. Were you doing other stuff

431
00:26:27,468 --> 00:26:31,130
for their clients there or was that exclusively for your brand? I was

432
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,922
pretty much exclusively there for the brand iteration, our

433
00:26:34,976 --> 00:26:38,182
brand. But at the same time, I mean, I met with other factories

434
00:26:38,246 --> 00:26:41,290
and I didn't make a waste of the trip.

435
00:26:41,730 --> 00:26:45,438
It's never a waste. Yeah. Okay. Wow.

436
00:26:45,524 --> 00:26:47,630
Crazy. That is wild.

437
00:26:49,090 --> 00:26:52,734
I'm sure the date is fluctuating, but when do you

438
00:26:52,772 --> 00:26:55,438
hope to try to launch this? Are you going to do like a Kickstarter? How

439
00:26:55,444 --> 00:26:59,026
are you going to launch this? Originally, a long time ago, we thought about doing

440
00:26:59,048 --> 00:27:02,894
a Kickstarter, but we learned that Kickstarter is actually really fundamentally

441
00:27:02,942 --> 00:27:06,534
difficult these days just because you need to have like $2

442
00:27:06,572 --> 00:27:10,386
million basically in the bank for your advertising

443
00:27:10,418 --> 00:27:14,118
of a Kickstarter to be monumentally successful. It does.

444
00:27:14,284 --> 00:27:17,954
It takes a really big backing to actually have it be successful

445
00:27:18,002 --> 00:27:21,386
on paper. And you're like, oh, but I spent all this money. Yeah,

446
00:27:21,568 --> 00:27:25,274
it's very challenging. But no. As of right now,

447
00:27:25,392 --> 00:27:28,380
I believe that we are probably on the path for

448
00:27:28,990 --> 00:27:32,746
if our summer plans work out, we should be able to jump into

449
00:27:32,768 --> 00:27:36,350
wear tests before the end of the year with our community

450
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:40,126
of users. We have around 1200 users right now in

451
00:27:40,148 --> 00:27:43,914
the community that we created to help us build this product. That's

452
00:27:43,962 --> 00:27:47,602
amazing to do. Bring them behind the scenes with you and

453
00:27:47,656 --> 00:27:51,458
actually develop it collectively to get real input from a bunch of

454
00:27:51,464 --> 00:27:54,946
different people. Wow. Creation. How did you get

455
00:27:54,968 --> 00:27:58,742
1200 people? I mean, it's been working on the community

456
00:27:58,876 --> 00:28:02,486
since last summer. I would say we launched it about a

457
00:28:02,508 --> 00:28:06,040
year ago, maybe eleven months ago. Okay.

458
00:28:07,450 --> 00:28:11,270
A lot of it's just been grit and heads down.

459
00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:14,986
My co founder has done a lot of outreach and trying to get

460
00:28:15,008 --> 00:28:18,794
people interested in this from other communities and different groups and

461
00:28:18,832 --> 00:28:22,282
whatnot. We were also part of Everlane's next

462
00:28:22,336 --> 00:28:26,006
collective last year. So that was part know,

463
00:28:26,048 --> 00:28:29,200
something that helped get us some traction last year, I would say.

464
00:28:29,730 --> 00:28:32,560
And that helped get us a few people in our community too.

465
00:28:33,330 --> 00:28:37,018
But yeah, a lot of it's like. It'S hard work, it's

466
00:28:37,034 --> 00:28:40,830
a mean and look at you're running an agency

467
00:28:40,910 --> 00:28:44,306
and doing this really big undertaking. You're not like, oh, let

468
00:28:44,328 --> 00:28:47,478
me not just but go cut and sew another

469
00:28:47,564 --> 00:28:50,966
bra. It's like a really

470
00:28:51,068 --> 00:28:54,870
massive technological. Undertaking. But that's really exciting.

471
00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:59,062
It is. It's massive. It's exciting. It's also so

472
00:28:59,116 --> 00:29:02,634
crazy. And I think that's part of why I've been like, I need to take

473
00:29:02,672 --> 00:29:06,058
some chill, time, a break, and not

474
00:29:06,224 --> 00:29:09,770
feel. So I don't know. I think the interesting

475
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,630
thing about it, having felt it as myself as a founder, and also having

476
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:17,454
seen it from other founders, is that there is this pressure and

477
00:29:17,492 --> 00:29:20,910
this desire to go as fast as you

478
00:29:20,980 --> 00:29:24,666
can no matter what. And why can't

479
00:29:24,698 --> 00:29:28,538
I just keep going fast? You want to control the situation so much and you

480
00:29:28,564 --> 00:29:31,506
want to be the one who says this is when it's going to happen and

481
00:29:31,528 --> 00:29:34,994
this is when it's going to be done. And honestly, the reality of things is

482
00:29:35,112 --> 00:29:38,726
when there's projects like this and you're trying to do something really different

483
00:29:38,908 --> 00:29:42,678
and not just like the standard fabric cut

484
00:29:42,764 --> 00:29:46,262
make into something. You never know when the end

485
00:29:46,316 --> 00:29:50,154
is. I keep telling I use the analogy of

486
00:29:50,192 --> 00:29:53,926
climbing the mountain all the time and I'm like, I feel like I'm

487
00:29:53,958 --> 00:29:57,738
at the top. I'm near the top of the mountain. It's starting to get like

488
00:29:57,824 --> 00:30:01,670
cloudy and not sure. False summit

489
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:05,326
again. No, it's not the one. But I feel like when I do get to

490
00:30:05,348 --> 00:30:08,942
the top, eventually it will be okay and the sky will clear and I'll know

491
00:30:08,996 --> 00:30:10,480
my way down. But

492
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:16,802
there's no other explanation other than you have this

493
00:30:16,856 --> 00:30:20,674
idea that you want to bring into the world and

494
00:30:20,872 --> 00:30:24,500
you know that you are the person that is meant to do it. And

495
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:28,694
the fact that you have it just sitting on the back of your brain, just

496
00:30:28,732 --> 00:30:31,880
like, get it out there, get it out there. Do it, do it, do it.

497
00:30:32,250 --> 00:30:36,086
It's just mind boggling. Okay, so I

498
00:30:36,108 --> 00:30:39,238
have two questions leading off of that, and I know this conversation is taking a

499
00:30:39,244 --> 00:30:42,698
whole different turn. I don't like to really prepare stuff in advance, and I know

500
00:30:42,704 --> 00:30:45,718
you had sent me a few talking points in advance, but how are you funding

501
00:30:45,734 --> 00:30:48,620
all this? I got to ask self.

502
00:30:49,150 --> 00:30:52,782
Okay. Yeah. So I don't want to plant any

503
00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:56,574
seeds, but one of the benefits of freelancing or

504
00:30:56,612 --> 00:31:00,330
running your own business agency, however you have it structured,

505
00:31:00,490 --> 00:31:04,142
is you have this foundation where you're able to still make

506
00:31:04,196 --> 00:31:08,046
money, right? But then you have the freedom and flexibility to then also do this

507
00:31:08,068 --> 00:31:10,706
project on the side. Like, could you do this if you were working full time

508
00:31:10,808 --> 00:31:14,626
in house? I mean, how would you go to Sri Lanka for five weeks? I

509
00:31:14,648 --> 00:31:17,838
don't think I would. Yeah, I don't think I would be able to do what

510
00:31:17,864 --> 00:31:21,698
I had done if I had been working full time. Yeah, I'm a big proponent

511
00:31:21,714 --> 00:31:24,920
of freelancing. And so what I'm trying to say here is

512
00:31:26,650 --> 00:31:30,470
and I think for some people who want to do their own brand,

513
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:34,346
freelancing is a great companion to that. Right. Because you

514
00:31:34,368 --> 00:31:38,074
have that income, but you also have all the flexibility to do

515
00:31:38,112 --> 00:31:41,910
what you want. Oh, absolutely. I definitely

516
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,630
hear you on that. And I think that is exactly how I went into this

517
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,374
with that mindset. Because when I started my

518
00:31:49,412 --> 00:31:53,006
very first business brand, I did everything by myself.

519
00:31:53,108 --> 00:31:56,690
It sucked, it was hard. I tried so much

520
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,610
and I failed miserably. And then I realized that I do really good design

521
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,386
stuff. Why don't I just do that for people who need it? And

522
00:32:04,568 --> 00:32:07,960
it was so clear that

523
00:32:08,490 --> 00:32:12,214
that's what I should be doing. But also when I

524
00:32:12,252 --> 00:32:16,038
had the idea for iteration, when I decided I wanted to work on this company

525
00:32:16,124 --> 00:32:19,814
and I was like, well, I had

526
00:32:19,852 --> 00:32:23,514
already tried my own brand at one point a few years back and I was

527
00:32:23,552 --> 00:32:26,714
like, but I've now been doing this for other people. I have more confidence now

528
00:32:26,752 --> 00:32:30,426
because I've been doing it again for more people again. And

529
00:32:30,448 --> 00:32:33,978
I'm like, I don't actually have to do it quickly. I could do it at

530
00:32:33,984 --> 00:32:36,558
the pace that it takes and I could do it on the side and I

531
00:32:36,564 --> 00:32:40,266
can go whatever time it takes, it just takes and I don't

532
00:32:40,298 --> 00:32:43,306
really need to make it go fast. That was my original

533
00:32:43,418 --> 00:32:47,246
inclination when I had started it. So take it

534
00:32:47,268 --> 00:32:49,458
for what it is. I also now have a co founder. I didn't have a

535
00:32:49,464 --> 00:32:52,114
co founder when I started it and when I had told myself I could go

536
00:32:52,152 --> 00:32:55,854
slow. And when you have another person that's also depending on you, things change.

537
00:32:55,912 --> 00:32:59,618
But sure, at the end of the day, it creates

538
00:32:59,714 --> 00:33:03,254
an amazing basis for you to do your

539
00:33:03,292 --> 00:33:07,094
freelance and also build your brand because you've got some sort

540
00:33:07,132 --> 00:33:10,794
of income coming in that helps you stabilize. And you

541
00:33:10,832 --> 00:33:14,646
also have the idea that I can still work on something that lights

542
00:33:14,678 --> 00:33:17,802
me up and is totally, fully mine at the end of the day.

543
00:33:17,856 --> 00:33:21,594
Because I think we all want ownership

544
00:33:21,642 --> 00:33:25,486
of something at the end of the day because it's how you

545
00:33:25,508 --> 00:33:29,322
become wealthy and how you develop money or compensation

546
00:33:29,386 --> 00:33:32,480
for yourself is like ownership. Everybody knows that

547
00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:36,894
if you can own that and make something that you can own, that's

548
00:33:36,942 --> 00:33:40,594
magical and even if it takes ten years, at least

549
00:33:40,632 --> 00:33:44,402
it's yours and you've done it. And that's kind of how I have always

550
00:33:44,456 --> 00:33:47,654
been thinking about both of my businesses in the sense just

551
00:33:47,692 --> 00:33:51,174
like, it's never going to be somebody else's, so

552
00:33:51,372 --> 00:33:55,046
it's going to be mine and I'm going to sit through the consequences of

553
00:33:55,068 --> 00:33:58,262
it and any of the challenges and also

554
00:33:58,316 --> 00:34:02,090
enjoy the benefits and the rewards. Totally.

555
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:06,826
Okay. So that whole conversation kind of leads me to something else that you had

556
00:34:06,848 --> 00:34:10,602
brought up that you thought could be insightful for listeners was

557
00:34:10,656 --> 00:34:14,390
like working with startup brands and people that are kind

558
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,926
of sew to the industry because that's a lot of the brands that you work

559
00:34:16,948 --> 00:34:20,622
with. You said interestingly enough, and this is something I

560
00:34:20,676 --> 00:34:24,494
talk about is like I don't want you to mislead your clients in any

561
00:34:24,532 --> 00:34:28,354
way, but oftentimes working with a bunch of clients, you

562
00:34:28,392 --> 00:34:32,082
can use that as a learning curve to then do your own

563
00:34:32,136 --> 00:34:35,986
brand a little bit with a little bit more intelligence, right? You can

564
00:34:36,008 --> 00:34:39,382
kind of see the mistakes that they're making firsthand and you can learn

565
00:34:39,516 --> 00:34:43,318
while getting paid. You can't go into it completely blind, right? Obviously you have to

566
00:34:43,324 --> 00:34:46,962
have some skills and some knowledge and a base. And again, don't

567
00:34:47,026 --> 00:34:50,426
mislead your clients about what you are capable of, but it's always going to be

568
00:34:50,448 --> 00:34:54,266
a learning opportunity. And so, like you said, you've worked with so

569
00:34:54,288 --> 00:34:58,074
many startups and small brands over the past few years that

570
00:34:58,112 --> 00:35:01,760
it's helped you in developing your own brand. So

571
00:35:02,530 --> 00:35:06,366
can you talk a little bit about some of the lessons that

572
00:35:06,388 --> 00:35:09,598
you've learned and maybe even challenges too of

573
00:35:09,764 --> 00:35:13,370
working with these small brands

574
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:16,930
that haven't launched yet that maybe don't know much about the fashion industry?

575
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:20,946
What does that look like from a freelancer or like an

576
00:35:20,968 --> 00:35:23,620
agency perspective? That whole process.

577
00:35:25,590 --> 00:35:29,254
I think you have to realize that most people who are

578
00:35:29,292 --> 00:35:33,094
coming into it, at least for me, most

579
00:35:33,132 --> 00:35:36,934
people who are coming into it and are really interested in being

580
00:35:36,972 --> 00:35:40,266
successful as a brand owner, they're going to

581
00:35:40,288 --> 00:35:43,754
be somewhat curious about the whole

582
00:35:43,792 --> 00:35:47,450
process. And we have to honor that

583
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,990
curiosity in some way and teach them

584
00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:53,040
about what they're doing because

585
00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:59,086
I don't want to help build the brand and put

586
00:35:59,108 --> 00:36:02,798
something into the universe. And then at the end of the day, still not

587
00:36:02,884 --> 00:36:06,466
have fully educated the person who's owning the brand on

588
00:36:06,568 --> 00:36:10,340
what they're selling. At the end of the day, I'm not expecting to

589
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:14,398
give her or him my full set of experience because I can't

590
00:36:14,414 --> 00:36:18,214
do that in the time we work together. But the idea that we

591
00:36:18,252 --> 00:36:21,510
have to be people who can help

592
00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:25,414
others to learn the lingo and to understand what they're doing so

593
00:36:25,452 --> 00:36:29,178
that they don't look silly if they had an interview with a

594
00:36:29,184 --> 00:36:32,874
magazine or something so that they can talk right about

595
00:36:32,912 --> 00:36:36,266
it. You don't want them to be like, I don't know, we made

596
00:36:36,288 --> 00:36:40,138
that. Yeah, it could just be

597
00:36:40,224 --> 00:36:43,726
so bad for them if they don't know what they're saying. And so

598
00:36:43,908 --> 00:36:47,162
I think understanding that, most of it comes from a curious

599
00:36:47,226 --> 00:36:50,958
place and if you don't think it comes from a

600
00:36:50,964 --> 00:36:54,160
curious place, try to remember it comes from a curious place. Because

601
00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:58,990
sometimes I think that clients will like, I've done it so many times,

602
00:36:59,060 --> 00:37:01,666
I've done this so many times and they'll be like, well, why are we doing

603
00:37:01,688 --> 00:37:04,194
this and why are we doing that? And I'll be like, well, that's a good

604
00:37:04,232 --> 00:37:07,960
question and I should absolutely be able to tell you why. But

605
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:13,126
initially, years ago, I would get sort of frustrated by those and I'm like, why

606
00:37:13,148 --> 00:37:16,486
am I getting frustrated. It's like things they don't know,

607
00:37:16,668 --> 00:37:20,426
they can't learn from thin air. So part of it

608
00:37:20,448 --> 00:37:24,186
is just letting people be educated, giving them the

609
00:37:24,208 --> 00:37:27,562
education when they need it, being open and honest and

610
00:37:27,696 --> 00:37:31,430
transparent with your feedback so that you're not like if you're having issues with a

611
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,146
client or if a brand is not clear on what you're

612
00:37:35,178 --> 00:37:38,926
doing and how you're helping them conversation. It's like talk to

613
00:37:38,948 --> 00:37:42,446
them. Empathy. And just looking at people and

614
00:37:42,468 --> 00:37:46,194
saying, this is what I'm thinking you're meaning by this? Is this what you

615
00:37:46,232 --> 00:37:50,066
mean? That can go a long way. Just communication. Yeah. How

616
00:37:50,088 --> 00:37:53,620
do you manage? Because I know this is where people

617
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:59,046
get stuck here, is like when you're working with these

618
00:37:59,068 --> 00:38:02,662
smaller, independent brands and they do have a lot of questions, right.

619
00:38:02,716 --> 00:38:06,486
And it's coming from a place of curiosity. And again, they just don't have the

620
00:38:06,508 --> 00:38:09,530
knowledge, but building

621
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,466
time into the project to make

622
00:38:13,488 --> 00:38:16,778
sure that you're getting compensated for.

623
00:38:16,944 --> 00:38:20,618
Because and I don't know if you're doing any projects that

624
00:38:20,624 --> 00:38:23,950
are quite this small, but let's say someone hires you to do one tech pack,

625
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:27,806
right? And so it's like hourly, maybe, or

626
00:38:27,828 --> 00:38:31,246
like a set price, right? But then they have like 800 questions, and they want

627
00:38:31,268 --> 00:38:35,046
to spend an hour on the phone. And that could arguably scale

628
00:38:35,098 --> 00:38:38,386
up with a twelve tech pack project or I don't know, whatever it might look

629
00:38:38,408 --> 00:38:41,650
like, right. But managing that balance between

630
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,346
here's kind of what I had originally quoted and

631
00:38:45,448 --> 00:38:49,186
then Scope Creep, where we are now, getting sort of I

632
00:38:49,208 --> 00:38:51,558
get that you're curious and stuff, but at the end of the day, it's taking

633
00:38:51,644 --> 00:38:55,254
a lot of time. How do you manage all that? It's a good

634
00:38:55,292 --> 00:38:59,126
question. I don't know that it's ever been in so much excess

635
00:38:59,238 --> 00:39:02,762
that I felt like I couldn't answer the questions.

636
00:39:02,896 --> 00:39:06,170
I'm also like, a super people pleaser, so

637
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,820
I don't know if that's part of that, too.

638
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:14,746
I would say that as far as requests

639
00:39:14,778 --> 00:39:15,360
go,

640
00:39:18,450 --> 00:39:21,662
this will probably be a different tangent that we go down. But I don't do

641
00:39:21,716 --> 00:39:25,218
project based pricing, and I don't do hourly based pricing anymore. Oh, good.

642
00:39:25,304 --> 00:39:28,562
Packages. I basically have a retainer based

643
00:39:28,616 --> 00:39:32,334
pricing. Okay. It's really based on the number of styles

644
00:39:32,382 --> 00:39:36,098
that you're developing and how many you're doing at once. Are you

645
00:39:36,104 --> 00:39:39,666
working on different categories? Are you working on one category? Is it like one

646
00:39:39,688 --> 00:39:43,362
delivery? Three? It just depends on the client.

647
00:39:43,426 --> 00:39:46,760
But at the end of the day, Scope Creep is so hard.

648
00:39:47,930 --> 00:39:51,560
Pricing by project is hard. Pricing by hour is hard because

649
00:39:53,390 --> 00:39:56,778
it's a race to the bottom for pricing by hour because they want you to

650
00:39:56,784 --> 00:39:59,946
be as fast as you possibly can be. And you're like, I need to put

651
00:39:59,968 --> 00:40:03,690
time and energy and effort into this to make it good. And project

652
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,438
based pricing, you're hoping that you can get it done in the completed amount of

653
00:40:07,444 --> 00:40:10,430
time. So that you make a decent bottom line on it. But it's also just

654
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:14,254
like a fairy wish right now. I don't know how much is and

655
00:40:14,292 --> 00:40:18,066
it always ends up being bigger than it is. So for me, I found that

656
00:40:18,088 --> 00:40:21,886
retainer based monthly project sort of linked

657
00:40:21,918 --> 00:40:25,646
to projects is the best way for us to limit

658
00:40:25,678 --> 00:40:29,522
that. And so we have our smallest package.

659
00:40:29,586 --> 00:40:33,126
It still comes with unlimited questions, basically.

660
00:40:33,308 --> 00:40:37,046
Okay. And that's never turned into a problem. It's never turned into a problem. And

661
00:40:37,068 --> 00:40:40,642
honestly, I think part of it is just how I

662
00:40:40,796 --> 00:40:44,586
manage my own systems, is I am very upfront with everybody. When

663
00:40:44,608 --> 00:40:48,426
we start working together, we have rules of engagement. We explain that what

664
00:40:48,448 --> 00:40:52,266
our communication is like in our rules of engagement, and you can

665
00:40:52,288 --> 00:40:56,046
expect a reply from me within 24 to 48 business hours if you send

666
00:40:56,068 --> 00:40:59,806
me an email. And I'm not going to race to send you a reply to

667
00:40:59,828 --> 00:41:03,646
your question. So that's part of it. I will get to it as

668
00:41:03,668 --> 00:41:07,038
soon as I can, but that might not be my top priority. The other you're

669
00:41:07,054 --> 00:41:10,834
setting those expectations up front. Yes. And one of

670
00:41:10,872 --> 00:41:14,514
my last one for my rules of engagement is that I don't work with

671
00:41:14,552 --> 00:41:18,142
assholes. So if you are an asshole, I won't work with you. So

672
00:41:18,216 --> 00:41:21,474
honestly, I think it's fun. I think it's cheeky.

673
00:41:21,602 --> 00:41:25,346
Totally. People don't need to I don't need to pretend like I'm

674
00:41:25,378 --> 00:41:28,986
somebody who's just going to be stomped around. I'm not going to work with you

675
00:41:29,008 --> 00:41:32,540
if you're a jerk. No jerks, please. So

676
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:36,746
this is really interesting. When do you present

677
00:41:36,848 --> 00:41:40,438
the rules of engagement? It's as part of a contract.

678
00:41:40,534 --> 00:41:44,070
So once they want the contract and they're ready to sign,

679
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,870
I send it along with like a schedule of here's what you can expect

680
00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:51,706
in month one, month two, month three. If we're doing the development

681
00:41:51,738 --> 00:41:54,306
of something, it usually takes about a year. So we just kind of map out

682
00:41:54,328 --> 00:41:58,114
all the things. Okay. And I've never had somebody not

683
00:41:58,152 --> 00:42:01,410
sign it because they thought I'm an asshole.

684
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:07,154
I'm really curious about that. And I want to talk about the retainer model, too,

685
00:42:07,192 --> 00:42:10,998
because I love retainer models, but they can be a little bit more advanced. I

686
00:42:11,004 --> 00:42:14,706
don't think it's great when you're first starting, necessarily. There's a lot of nuances

687
00:42:14,738 --> 00:42:18,162
to it. Yeah. But for sure, the rules of engagement,

688
00:42:18,226 --> 00:42:21,974
so it's setting expectations for your

689
00:42:22,012 --> 00:42:25,658
response time. Yeah. Don't be an asshole. What else you got in there? I'm going

690
00:42:25,664 --> 00:42:28,906
to pull it up right now. Pull it up. I don't know what I have

691
00:42:28,928 --> 00:42:32,586
in there right now. This is so interesting to me. I've never

692
00:42:32,608 --> 00:42:36,346
heard this before. You're the first person. It's like one of my favorite

693
00:42:36,378 --> 00:42:39,694
things. I also shared it with my team because I was like, I want you

694
00:42:39,732 --> 00:42:43,454
guys to know what I request of our clients so

695
00:42:43,492 --> 00:42:47,122
that you know what I am. The standards are of you

696
00:42:47,176 --> 00:42:50,946
too. I love it so much because one

697
00:42:50,968 --> 00:42:54,078
of the things I talk a lot about is communication and setting expectations. Because here's

698
00:42:54,094 --> 00:42:57,686
the thing. If you are that freelancer that replies in like five minutes to

699
00:42:57,708 --> 00:43:01,334
everything and then the next week or the next month, you're really

700
00:43:01,372 --> 00:43:05,026
busy and you're not replying so quickly. Your client, you've trained

701
00:43:05,058 --> 00:43:08,614
them to expect that you respond really

702
00:43:08,652 --> 00:43:12,298
quickly, and as soon as you don't, they're feeling like

703
00:43:12,384 --> 00:43:16,218
abandoned. Oh my gosh, she's letting the ball drop on

704
00:43:16,224 --> 00:43:19,482
the project. Like she's not performing and stuff. So setting these

705
00:43:19,536 --> 00:43:22,842
expectations, and I hate to say this way, but you're kind of our training people

706
00:43:22,976 --> 00:43:26,606
that this is how it works. Totally. You say much more nightly rules of

707
00:43:26,628 --> 00:43:30,238
engagement. Not like training, but okay. Did you get it pulled up? I want to

708
00:43:30,244 --> 00:43:33,806
hear. Yes, I've got them. So number one is trust and

709
00:43:33,828 --> 00:43:37,554
mutual respect. Pretty straightforward there. I outline these

710
00:43:37,592 --> 00:43:40,258
a little detailed too. I'm not going to give you the whole thing. These are

711
00:43:40,264 --> 00:43:43,710
just the headers. Okay. Yeah. Trust and mutual respect, shared values,

712
00:43:43,790 --> 00:43:47,614
timeliness, communication, forward thinking and playing

713
00:43:47,662 --> 00:43:51,094
nice. Okay. I like this. I also like the

714
00:43:51,132 --> 00:43:54,886
timeliness one because it's not just about how quickly you respond, but we all

715
00:43:54,908 --> 00:43:58,198
know how annoying it is to be nagging a client for the thing and you

716
00:43:58,204 --> 00:44:01,914
can't get the thing. Yeah, I'll read you

717
00:44:01,952 --> 00:44:05,754
these two because I do think they're good. Okay. For timeliness, I wrote, the design

718
00:44:05,792 --> 00:44:09,386
and development process are incredibly deadline driven. We commit to

719
00:44:09,408 --> 00:44:12,998
responding to questions and emails promptly within 24 to 48 business hours to

720
00:44:13,024 --> 00:44:16,654
continue moving things forward. That's basically them

721
00:44:16,692 --> 00:44:20,174
agreeing to it and. Us agreeing we commit too. Yeah. I love how you

722
00:44:20,212 --> 00:44:23,726
totally position this as like a very team effort. Yeah. Okay. And

723
00:44:23,748 --> 00:44:27,534
then the communication is communication. We believe in communicating well

724
00:44:27,572 --> 00:44:31,026
is essential. If something isn't working, let's talk. Having partnerships where we can speak our

725
00:44:31,048 --> 00:44:34,254
minds without worry is part of what makes us great at working together. We prefer

726
00:44:34,302 --> 00:44:37,874
using email whenever possible to allow for easy searchability. Okay.

727
00:44:38,072 --> 00:44:40,966
I don't want people to text me and stuff and that's why I put that

728
00:44:40,988 --> 00:44:44,694
one. No. Yeah. Okay. Oh, this is beautiful.

729
00:44:44,892 --> 00:44:48,200
I love this. I'm really nerding out on this right here.

730
00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:52,474
Okay. So the rules of engagement set a really

731
00:44:52,512 --> 00:44:56,362
get tone and expectation for the project. So everybody's on the same page.

732
00:44:56,416 --> 00:44:59,878
That's fabulous. Talk to us a little bit more about the retainer

733
00:44:59,974 --> 00:45:03,674
because you said it's typically a year. So

734
00:45:03,712 --> 00:45:06,894
are you getting most brands to sign on to working with you for a full

735
00:45:06,932 --> 00:45:10,734
year? I would say that no, it's not

736
00:45:10,772 --> 00:45:14,574
necessarily that they sign up for a full year. I think it's something right

737
00:45:14,612 --> 00:45:18,338
now where I think it's like a three month period of sign on. Okay. But

738
00:45:18,344 --> 00:45:21,540
that's still great. Yeah. Because

739
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:25,474
we don't want to start a project and then stop or keep

740
00:45:25,512 --> 00:45:29,140
that press stop. Generally speaking.

741
00:45:30,010 --> 00:45:33,334
I've never had somebody come on and sign off halfway through, so

742
00:45:33,372 --> 00:45:37,158
I've always retained a client when we start the process.

743
00:45:37,244 --> 00:45:40,954
Unless I was the one to fire them. I've only done it once. But

744
00:45:40,992 --> 00:45:44,746
you did do it just once. Do

745
00:45:44,768 --> 00:45:48,554
you know who you are? I

746
00:45:48,592 --> 00:45:52,186
hope you're not listening. Awkward. I'm just

747
00:45:52,208 --> 00:45:55,360
kidding. They probably have no idea. They probably have no idea.

748
00:45:55,890 --> 00:45:59,360
It was a project very early into it. Okay.

749
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:03,182
They got no clue. Okay, but three months?

750
00:46:03,236 --> 00:46:06,978
And how do you structure these packages? You said it's kind of based on

751
00:46:07,064 --> 00:46:10,866
a number of styles or something. Yeah. So we have our

752
00:46:10,888 --> 00:46:14,354
baby package is like a bootstrapping package, and it's just like, one to three

753
00:46:14,392 --> 00:46:17,906
styles. So it's like if you're working on a Hero product and

754
00:46:18,088 --> 00:46:21,414
this is the thing you want, and that's it. But

755
00:46:21,532 --> 00:46:24,774
basically, we kind of have a baby package, and then we have all the way

756
00:46:24,812 --> 00:46:28,586
up four package levels, all the way up to Enterprise, which is, like, if

757
00:46:28,608 --> 00:46:32,346
you're doing a lot of stuff, making stuff.

758
00:46:32,528 --> 00:46:35,914
But basically we just kind of they're slightly different based

759
00:46:35,952 --> 00:46:39,802
on roughly. I mean, I have a calculation of something

760
00:46:39,856 --> 00:46:43,470
like around $1200 to $1,000 per

761
00:46:43,540 --> 00:46:47,246
style per month, basically, if I'm being fully transparent, which I

762
00:46:47,268 --> 00:46:50,798
clearly am. Okay, so roughly $1,000

763
00:46:50,884 --> 00:46:54,418
per style per month to work with them? Roughly, yeah. I

764
00:46:54,424 --> 00:46:58,142
mean, it changes based on how much volume you have. If you have more volume,

765
00:46:58,206 --> 00:47:01,940
it's more or less. So then how do you

766
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:07,142
manage that workload wise? Because arguably, you

767
00:47:07,196 --> 00:47:10,934
could certain parts of the process

768
00:47:11,052 --> 00:47:14,582
go faster, and then others, like

769
00:47:14,716 --> 00:47:18,118
design and tech packs, is totally in your control, and you can

770
00:47:18,204 --> 00:47:22,038
perhaps bust those out pretty quickly. Then you send it off to the

771
00:47:22,044 --> 00:47:25,834
factory, and you're just sitting there waiting for samples to come back. Right. And then

772
00:47:25,872 --> 00:47:28,698
you send the proto and the comments back, and then you're waiting, and there's a

773
00:47:28,704 --> 00:47:32,170
lot more downtime. But how do you really

774
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,934
think about how to manage that from a workload perspective from your

775
00:47:35,972 --> 00:47:39,658
team? How much time are we actually putting into this for that? Let's

776
00:47:39,674 --> 00:47:43,070
just say $1,000 per style per month. It's probably

777
00:47:43,220 --> 00:47:46,974
not a good answer because I

778
00:47:47,012 --> 00:47:50,798
don't really have a great way to fully manage it other than I've

779
00:47:50,814 --> 00:47:54,146
been doing it for a while, and I kind of know what it's like to

780
00:47:54,168 --> 00:47:57,826
have the push and pull of, like, okay, we've sent out samples. Okay. Now we're

781
00:47:57,858 --> 00:48:01,286
waiting for them. And my team is

782
00:48:01,308 --> 00:48:05,126
constantly developing their skill set as well. So I would say that in the

783
00:48:05,148 --> 00:48:08,674
times that we're low or down or we're not as busy,

784
00:48:08,802 --> 00:48:12,154
they're working on teaching themselves. Chloe and becoming more

785
00:48:12,192 --> 00:48:15,814
useful and working on making block

786
00:48:15,862 --> 00:48:19,530
patterns. And we try to use the space

787
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,362
in between to make it more helpful for the times that we're busy.

788
00:48:23,446 --> 00:48:26,826
So even right now, one of the things that we're

789
00:48:26,858 --> 00:48:30,254
sprinting on in the next month is that we're mapping out all those,

790
00:48:30,292 --> 00:48:33,998
SOPs we're going to have a database of all the SOPs we

791
00:48:34,004 --> 00:48:37,266
had somebody come on a new designer came on in February of this year. Her

792
00:48:37,288 --> 00:48:40,930
name is Trudy Gardner and she's a 3D designer. She's a fast

793
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,786
student. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wait, I think

794
00:48:44,808 --> 00:48:48,214
you put this in the email and I totally forgot. Yeah.

795
00:48:48,332 --> 00:48:52,098
Okay, hold on. Shut the front door because I'm interviewing

796
00:48:52,114 --> 00:48:55,526
her on the podcast, like, tomorrow. Oh, my God. Amazing.

797
00:48:55,708 --> 00:48:59,062
No, Thursday amazing. Thursday. Oh, my God.

798
00:48:59,116 --> 00:49:02,714
Wild. So someone told me you guys were working

799
00:49:02,752 --> 00:49:06,138
together. Either you told me or she told me, but she's one of my yeah.

800
00:49:06,224 --> 00:49:10,042
Yeah, it was probably her that told you because you and I haven't talked

801
00:49:10,096 --> 00:49:13,166
too much lately. I thought maybe you put it in one of the emails or

802
00:49:13,188 --> 00:49:16,222
something and I read the email chain. Yeah. Anyways, that's fine. Okay. I don't know.

803
00:49:16,276 --> 00:49:19,950
Yeah. Trudy, how'd you guys connect? Same story

804
00:49:20,020 --> 00:49:23,754
as basically everyone else. Like, Trudy somehow found

805
00:49:23,812 --> 00:49:27,380
me on the Internet okay. Emailed me, and she basically

806
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:32,626
well, she wanted to understand she emailed me like a

807
00:49:32,648 --> 00:49:35,922
year and a half, almost two years ago now, and she was

808
00:49:35,976 --> 00:49:39,638
just learning intimates design, and she was like, I

809
00:49:39,724 --> 00:49:43,414
know you're in the intimates world. And she wanted to know what she should work

810
00:49:43,452 --> 00:49:47,234
on because she's like an. Air pilot, like an Air Force

811
00:49:47,282 --> 00:49:50,890
pilot or something. Like she comes from a whole different yeah.

812
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,794
Yeah. Canadian Air Force. Crazy. I know. And then got

813
00:49:54,832 --> 00:49:58,634
into fashion, like totally DIY. Yeah. Okay. So she wanted

814
00:49:58,672 --> 00:50:02,362
to learn about intimates. Okay. Yeah. And so she reached out.

815
00:50:02,416 --> 00:50:06,140
We had like a zoom call. She explained what she know? Trying to

816
00:50:06,750 --> 00:50:10,574
kind of I'm pretty sure at the time I told her, you should work

817
00:50:10,612 --> 00:50:14,014
on Chloe if you're not working on it already, because I had already been working

818
00:50:14,052 --> 00:50:17,746
in Chloe since 2021. And so I

819
00:50:17,768 --> 00:50:21,618
was like, it's the thing or no, 2020. I started working in

820
00:50:21,624 --> 00:50:25,378
it, not myself, but having things done in Chloe for me. And

821
00:50:25,464 --> 00:50:29,238
I'm just like, this is crazy. You need to be working in

822
00:50:29,244 --> 00:50:32,534
it if you're not already. And she did end up start she got

823
00:50:32,572 --> 00:50:36,326
into really into Chloe after our conversation. She's been

824
00:50:36,428 --> 00:50:39,500
basically Cloing up a storm. And

825
00:50:40,990 --> 00:50:44,582
she's also part of the Intimate Apparel

826
00:50:44,646 --> 00:50:48,394
Collective, and so she is part

827
00:50:48,432 --> 00:50:51,930
of that, and I'm part of that as well. And so I've been seeing her

828
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,382
participating in that for the past year and a half. Okay.

829
00:50:55,536 --> 00:50:59,358
And then recently at the beginning of this year, I was we one of

830
00:50:59,364 --> 00:51:03,006
my clients was expanding their size range, and we were kind of

831
00:51:03,028 --> 00:51:06,306
going deeper into grading and stuff. And I was like, Trudy might be somebody I

832
00:51:06,328 --> 00:51:09,618
should think about having. Come on and see if she could help us with this.

833
00:51:09,784 --> 00:51:13,346
And so she joined in February of this

834
00:51:13,368 --> 00:51:17,126
year right before I went to Sri Lanka for five weeks. And

835
00:51:17,148 --> 00:51:20,726
so it was a hot mess expressed. And

836
00:51:20,748 --> 00:51:24,582
that's part of why we're making the SOPs now because when she get.

837
00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:26,200
On okay to come.

838
00:51:29,870 --> 00:51:33,386
It was a hot mess. This conversation makes me so happy.

839
00:51:33,488 --> 00:51:36,826
I love hearing too, like the whole story and

840
00:51:36,848 --> 00:51:40,262
evolution of like, she reached out,

841
00:51:40,416 --> 00:51:44,074
you told her Chloe, then you saw her active. What is this? Intimate

842
00:51:44,122 --> 00:51:47,902
collective? It's like a slack channel and

843
00:51:48,036 --> 00:51:51,886
community that meets via zoom calls like once

844
00:51:51,908 --> 00:51:55,498
a month. It's run by Nicola

845
00:51:55,594 --> 00:51:58,020
now I'm like blanking on her last name

846
00:51:59,110 --> 00:52:01,780
and I don't know where her name is on. My

847
00:52:03,110 --> 00:52:05,938
have to I'm going to find out about this from you. I'll email you to

848
00:52:05,944 --> 00:52:09,638
follow up. Okay, so okay. It's a slack community. Wow, that's the first time I've

849
00:52:09,644 --> 00:52:13,302
ever heard someone say slack in the fashion industry. I love slack. Oh,

850
00:52:13,356 --> 00:52:15,080
I love slack. I love

851
00:52:17,290 --> 00:52:20,626
so you get so then you kind of saw her in there being engaged. You're

852
00:52:20,658 --> 00:52:23,846
like, oh, look, she took this seriously. She's actually doing it. She's building her skills

853
00:52:23,878 --> 00:52:27,580
out and now she's working with you guys. Yeah. How cool.

854
00:52:28,190 --> 00:52:31,962
Honestly, I really do. I love

855
00:52:32,016 --> 00:52:35,806
people who are motivated and want to really want something. I love

856
00:52:35,828 --> 00:52:39,614
that. That is so inspiring to me and as somebody who has done that

857
00:52:39,652 --> 00:52:43,454
in my life, when I see people who just go for

858
00:52:43,492 --> 00:52:47,220
what they want, I'm going to try and help them get it. Because

859
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:51,698
if we're vibing and I can help you and I can get you to the

860
00:52:51,704 --> 00:52:55,230
next level, I want to do that. I love that. If you are curious

861
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:58,742
about anything in the industry, I'm a good person to connect with because I'm very

862
00:52:58,796 --> 00:53:02,626
friendly and I'm very happy to mentor and teach younger

863
00:53:02,658 --> 00:53:06,246
designers. And it's not ever like a guarantee or

864
00:53:06,268 --> 00:53:10,040
anything, but things lead from one thing to another.

865
00:53:10,970 --> 00:53:14,666
Basically everyone was hired the same way. So if you

866
00:53:14,688 --> 00:53:18,154
need something, if you want to learn about it, let's talk and we can figure

867
00:53:18,192 --> 00:53:21,646
it out. Fabulous. I was just thinking another of my students,

868
00:53:21,828 --> 00:53:25,354
Ashika, she does custom lace

869
00:53:25,402 --> 00:53:28,110
design for lingerie. Is her last name

870
00:53:28,260 --> 00:53:31,934
Chakrabarti? Yeah. She's in this community, actually. I

871
00:53:31,972 --> 00:53:35,810
sew. She's amazing. She's like super.

872
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,746
She she lives in India, but she travels to the States periodically. I don't

873
00:53:39,768 --> 00:53:43,314
know the exact logistics, but yeah. And she has

874
00:53:43,352 --> 00:53:46,020
designed custom lace for lingerie for a really long

875
00:53:48,070 --> 00:53:50,214
I don't I just thought of her because I was like, if any of your

876
00:53:50,252 --> 00:53:52,902
clients ever like if you have any high end clients that want to do something

877
00:53:52,956 --> 00:53:56,310
really special, that's her specialty. That's pretty cool.

878
00:53:56,380 --> 00:53:59,900
Yeah. Oh, what a small world she's in there. Of course she is. That's amazing.

879
00:54:01,390 --> 00:54:05,146
Yeah. It's called the Intimate Apparel Technical Collective. As

880
00:54:05,168 --> 00:54:08,300
a full name. I kind of janked that up earlier. Just.

881
00:54:10,350 --> 00:54:13,840
Collective. Okay, I'm going to figure this out. I love that.

882
00:54:14,770 --> 00:54:18,206
Amazing. Kristen, it's been so fun catching up with you and hearing all the

883
00:54:18,228 --> 00:54:21,918
things so much going on, it's really exciting. What's the name of your

884
00:54:21,924 --> 00:54:25,486
brand? I want to follow that. It's called iteration. Our

885
00:54:25,508 --> 00:54:29,202
domain is iterationera.com. Iterationera.com,

886
00:54:29,256 --> 00:54:33,106
okay. Building a new era of intimate. Yeah. Amazing. Okay, we'll link

887
00:54:33,128 --> 00:54:36,342
to all this in the show notes. Where can people find you and your design

888
00:54:36,396 --> 00:54:38,214
services? At my website,

889
00:54:38,332 --> 00:54:41,974
Kndrsn.com. That's the best way,

890
00:54:42,012 --> 00:54:45,734
because social media. Is it is the pitch. And

891
00:54:45,772 --> 00:54:49,186
don't text her, guys. Don't text her. Not giving out your phone number, but don't

892
00:54:49,218 --> 00:54:52,986
text her. This has been so wonderful. Thank you

893
00:54:53,008 --> 00:54:56,682
so much. Yeah. I have one final question.

894
00:54:56,816 --> 00:55:00,606
The question I always ask at the end. What is one thing people never ask

895
00:55:00,628 --> 00:55:04,110
you about freelancing and fashion that you wish they would? Or

896
00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:07,550
running an agency. When do you sleep?

897
00:55:09,890 --> 00:55:13,626
Yeah. You're also, like, launching this whole brand,

898
00:55:13,738 --> 00:55:16,080
but okay. No,

899
00:55:17,410 --> 00:55:20,850
I wish people would ask me probably what makes

900
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,546
you motivated to keep going and doing this? Because I think

901
00:55:24,648 --> 00:55:28,360
the answer is why I keep doing it. And that's because I love

902
00:55:28,810 --> 00:55:32,486
making women and everyone feel good in their

903
00:55:32,508 --> 00:55:36,134
skin. Everyone deserves to feel beautiful.

904
00:55:36,332 --> 00:55:40,006
For so long of my life, I struggled with feeling good in my own

905
00:55:40,028 --> 00:55:43,606
body, and I don't think people deserve that. So if I

906
00:55:43,628 --> 00:55:47,094
can influence people and make a positive impact on how they feel about

907
00:55:47,132 --> 00:55:49,720
themselves, then I'm doing my job. And

908
00:55:50,290 --> 00:55:54,126
so I would like people to know what motivates us, actually, to

909
00:55:54,148 --> 00:55:57,998
make beautiful clothes. Yeah. I love that. That's a fabulous answer. Thank you

910
00:55:58,004 --> 00:56:01,102
so much, Kristen, for sharing and coming on the show. Again, thank you so much.

911
00:56:01,156 --> 00:56:03,100
It was so wonderful. Heidi, have a great one.