37signals makes tens of millions in profit every year but
Jason Fried isn’t all that interested in running a business.
Instead, he cares most about making great products—like
Basecamp,
HEY, and
Ruby on Rails—products that are centered around a single, coherent idea. These products are complete wholes, where each piece matters—like a Frank Lloyd Wright house or a vintage car.
But how do you create products like that?
In this conversation, we talk to Jason about what two decades of building 37signals has been like—and how to build products that have soul.
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Timestamps:
00:02:06 - What architecture, watches, and cars teach us about software
00:10:54 - How Jason thinks AI plays into product-building
00:20:58 - How developers at 37signals use AI
00:25:47 - Jason’s biggest realization after 26 years of running 37signals
00:29:58 - Where Jason thinks luck shaped his career
00:32:41 - What Jason would do if he were graduated into the AI boom
00:37:22 - Dan asks for advice on running a non-traditional company like Every
00:46:39 - Why staying true to yourself is the only way to build something lasting
00:49:38 - Wholeness as the north star for building products—and companies
Links to resources mentioned in the episode:
What is AI & I?
Learn how the smartest people in the world are using AI to think, create, and relate. Each week I interview founders, filmmakers, writers, investors, and others about how they use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Midjourney in their work and in their lives. We screen-share through their historical chats and then experiment with AI live on the show. Join us to discover how AI is changing how we think about our world—and ourselves.
For more essays, interviews, and experiments at the forefront of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought?sort=newest.