I'm Travis Bader, and this is The
Silvercore Podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
hunting, fishing, and outdoor pursuits
with the people in businesses that comprise
of the community.
If you're new to Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website, www.Silvercore.ca where
you can learn more about courses, services, and
products that we offer as well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club, which includes 10 million
in North American wide liability insurance, to
ensure you are properly covered during your
outdoor adventures.
All right.
I've been receiving some fantastic feedback
from listeners and Silvercore Club members.
And I wanted to take a moment to say, thank you.
It is through your feedback and by sharing
this podcast with others that we're
able to continually grow and evolve.
And for that, I am grateful.
Entries for the firefighter training
package that The Silvercore Club is giving
away in conjunction with the Training
Division in Texas have been rolling in.
If you know someone who has aspirations of
being a firefighter, this life-changing
giveaway will provide them with the necessary
training required to apply with their local
well departments.
Hurry, it ends May 31st.
Today I'm joined by a modern day Thoreau, the
author of Becoming Wild: Living the Primitive Life
on a West Coast Island.
She's a TED Talk graduate and contestant
on History channel's hit TV series, Alone.
Where she survived 51 days in the Arctic
on next to nothing.
Welcome to The Silvercore Podcast,
Nikki van Schyndel.
Oh thanks for having me.
I am so excited to have you.
It's been about what a year there?
Yeah, definitely, at least a year, right?
Yeah.
We've been texting and talking back and forth
and we're finally able to make this connect.
You know, I've got your book, great
book by the way.
Mmm, thanks.
Anybody who's interested in being alone or living
a primitive lifestyle or what it might be like.
I would definitely recommend checking out,
Becoming Wild: Living the Primitive Life on
a West Coast Island.
So when I read through that, I found
a few similarities.
You know, I'm looking at things that you have
done and that you do, and I'm looking back at
some things in my life.
And a few of the similarities I found,
well, one was just kind of a funny one; you
had a cat named Scout.
Yeah.
So I've got a daughter named Scout.
Oh my gosh that's awesome!
Was, was that inspired by Harper Lee's novel?
No actually, uh, it was inspired by,
uh, the ancient, like Apache Scouts.
Ahh, I love it.
Yeah.
She was incredible.
She's still alive, she's actually retired living
in town with my mom now, but she, I think she's
about 20 years old now.
Holy, that's, so I'm not a cat person,
probably because I'm allergic to cats.
That'd be a primary one.
I remember as a kid, I really wanted a
cat and I, I'm doing air quotes here.
I, I found a cat and I clutched it so close
to my chest and it was clawing me up and
anyways, I brought it home and I told my
parents, I said, this cat followed me home,
can we keep it, right?
My parents like, yeah, yeah, followed you home.
And I'm like, I don't know why I'm so itchy and
look, took off my shirt, took a look and sure
enough absolute hives.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I'm not a cat person either,
but I found her slightly similar.
She was abandoned by her feral mother and.
Oh okay.
And, uh, I was going off on this big survival
trek and I said, okay cat, like, you can hang
out with me, but this is what your life's
going to be like.
So you're going to have to be wild.
And she was amazing.
That's not too bad for a cat.
Yeah, she's incredible cat.
So reading through your book.
You make a number of references
to Sam Gribley.
Let me just reach into my bag here.
Oh!
Like wow, one of the original copies.
Look what I got.
Cool.
So if you look on the front cover
there or, sorry.
Yeah, there you go.
Look at your writing, it's like
tiny kid writing.
It hasn't progressed much.
What I just handed Nikki here, is my
original book, My Side of the Mountain.
So cool.
So I think it was what grade four when I got
that book and I loved that book and reading
through your book.
You love that book as well.
Oh yeah.
This was my favorite book of all times.
I mean, I wanted to be Sam Gribley
more than anything.
When I was a kid, I just like after
school, I'd run into the bush and start
making bows and arrows and picking berries.
And I was like, I'm going to be Sam.
And then I grew up obviously and forgot
all about Sam until, you know, I was in my
twenties and started learning all this stuff
about survival and living off the land.
And one day I was at, uh, one of my teacher's
house and I pulled this book off the shelf
and it was this, My Side of the Mountain.
Yeah?
And I thought, oh my gosh, I have
all these crazy skills to go be Sam.
Totally.
Like I'm going to go do it.
And, uh, that's why, uh, yeah, I was really
inspired by this book.
I named my little road book Gribley and
it was really cool.
Yeah, I, for whatever reason, that book
really resonated with me as a kid.
And, uh, so much to the point that I decided
at lunchtime to sneak into the classroom
and steal that book.
And as I'm stealing that book, the teacher comes
in and then I've got to come up with a story
and the teachers are, what are you doing Trav?
I said, oh, you know, I just, um, whatever I came
up with, he says, oh, why do you have that book?
Oh, no, that book, that's my book I
said, total lie.
The teacher says your book is it?
And grabs it from me, opens it up and takes a
look on the inside and sure enough, there's the,
uh, the school stamp on there and looks at me.
He's like, you sure this is your book and
I'm, now I'm fully committed to the lie.
Like, uh, like what do you do when your
in grade four like, yes, that's my book.
The teacher, you can see the rip
on the page there.
The teacher rips a page out and says,
well, if it's your book, you better
put your name in it.
Oh, that's so cool.
And the teacher said, but this is
between you and me.
If anyone asks, essentially,
I'll deny it.
And I thought, holy crow, that's, that's
a cool teacher, so I've held onto that
book ever since.
Cause it's a.
Super cool.
It's an interesting story, about a kid,
lives in the wild.
And I never really liked the ending where
he moved back home.
Yeah, neither did I, neither did I.
That is so cool that she was like, you know what?
He loves this book so much, I'm going
to give it to him.
Have you ever been in touch with that
teacher since?
No, I haven't.
I mean, look your life, you know, just like Sam.
Totally.
Me just like Sam.
I actually contacted, um, Jean Craighead
George, when I got back.
Really?
And said, hey, I got to say your
book has inspired me my whole life.
And I just wanted to say, hey, I became Sam.
And she wrote back immediately said, I've
been waiting for a kid to tell me this.
And I'm going to tell every other kid that
you can be Sam too.
Cause she just constantly gets letters from so many
kids that is inspired by her by her book.
Um, unfortunately she passed away right before
my book was published.
I couldn't send her a copy, but we
chatted all the time.
Christmas cards, sending pictures.
She was actually an extraordinary woman.
Really?
Mhmmm.
Did, was there any bit of.
Yes!
Sam in her?
Oh yeah.
Her father, I think was one of the
first, um, falconers.
Oh really?
Yeah.
And, uh, she spent lots of time in
the bush learning all these things.
Yeah, she was really an amazing woman.
That is so cool.
So you spent, and your book talks about a year
and a half that you spent out living primitively
on an Island here in BC.
Yeah.
Did you want to talk a little bit about.
Sure.
What primitively means?
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, I was a pretty hardcore, I just gotta
be all primitive, so absolutely nothing
modern, no knife, just stone tools
and bows and arrows.
And I was, you know, sleeping in hides and
making everything from baskets to clothing,
to, um, bone hooks and rope, cedar bark rope.
And, and then there became this point where
it was like, you know what a frying pan is an
amazing invention, you know, I love this pot.
Yes.
And so, it just came time to be
like, you know what?
It's okay that I'm going to keep a frying pan.
Like making clay pottery and dealing
with frying on rocks all works, obviously.
But there was more, I wanted to learn about,
you know, living out in the wild and the time it
takes to live absolutely primitively like that.
There's no, no tribe, I don't have
a tribe, I don't have a people to help.
So I made these exceptions where I
would keep, you know, a bunch of rope and
then I would just tie cedar bark onto it.
Okay.
I made thousands of feet of cedar bark rope, but
it became like, wow, I need even more to live.
So I would just tie cedar bark onto
fishing line and have, you know, 40 feet of
cedar bark and then regular fishing line.
And so there was ways that I utilized
some modern gear.
Um, I kept my knife, I kept an ax.
Right.
I mean, try, you know, axing down a
tree with a stone.
Yeah, good luck.
I've tried.
It takes forever.
Yes.
You can do it.
It is doable.
But you know, I'm not trying to prove that
this stuff worked.
So, um, yeah.
And there was this other things I kept a saw and
just some basic stuff.
Um, I got rid of the fish hooks, which was really,
really interesting, uh, made bone hooks
to make them work.
And, um, there was some things that I wasn't
willing to go modern.
Like I made all my bows and arrows and.
I saw that, that's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I did sleep in hides.
Uh, I kept modern clothing.
I did make a bunch of clothing, but like
walking around in a cedar bark skirt
just isn't quite as good as Carhartts.
No kidding.
Well, you, you came from a pretty, you came from a
background, you, you were sponsored snowboarder at
what, 23 I think it was?
Yeah.
Something like that.
Yeah.
In my twenties and yeah, I definitely didn't
come from a family of.
You know, outdoors people.
My dad was into camping a little bit, but you
know, we had a motor home and I just, yeah,
my, my family is not a real big outdoor person.
So I grew up pretty privileged show
jumping horses and.
Yeah.
Just a different life from what I
live now, for sure.
Wasn't there a horse named Ivy at some point?
Yes.
There was a lot of horses and, um, my
family in Holland, uh, raises show jumpers and
I got my start there.
Okay.
And, uh, just, just my life for all of
my teenage years.
And I think I started maybe when I was eight.
Okay.
And I just wanted to go to the Olympics.
That's all I breathed and dreamed was horses.
And, um, yeah, I just want to know
the Olympics, like my trainer.
And then, you know, it's expensive sport.
Totally.
And my mother one day was like, all right,
um, she's going to buy this horse named Ivy.
It was going to be my, you know, big junior
jumper and found this horse that was very
cheap in the world of, uh, show jumpers, but
it was this undiscovered gem, if you will.
So I was like, I'm going to make so much money
on this horse next year.
Mama's gonna be amazing.
And my trainer, not all excited that my mom was
going to buy the horse.
And, uh, she got a flat tire I guess on the way.
And so, okay, I got home from college
that day and I said, Hey, did we buy Ivy?
You know, like is she mine.
And she said, oh yeah, she vetted out well.
But, um, I got a flat tire on the way.
And I was like, Oh, that's a bummer.
She goes, yeah.
I took it as a sign from God that it's time
for you to get a job.
And I was like, what?
A job?
I'd never worked in my life.
Wow.
I was like, fine.
I'll get a job.
So I went down to the bar and I got this job
and I'll never forget the first paycheck I got.
You know, I hadn't even, I wasn't feeding my horse
even or turning it out.
So I was working really hard and it's
all proud of myself.
And I got this check and you know, it was like, so
little, I was like, can't even buy a shirt for
this, let alone buy Ivy.
Wow.
Um, yeah.
I kind of started a different progression
of my life, which I'm super grateful for.
Huh.
So the wise dispensation of divine providence.
I guess so.
Holy crow.
So you go from a pretty privileged
life to wanting to be alone, essentially.
You wanting to have wanting to be
out in the wild.
What was driving that for you?
Because it sounds like you come from a pretty
competitive background if you're going to be.
Super.
Olympic level.
No, yeah.
Horse jumper, a sponsored snowboarder.
Oh yeah, you're number one.
That's all you do is you just work really hard
and train, and that's all you focused on.
Was that just something you're born with or
is that something bred into you?
My dad, definitely.
Okay.
My dad, everything was about winning and, you
know, competition, ever since I can remember.
You know, even playing checkers with them,
wasn't like a fun game with your dad.
You're like finger came off, you lose a turn.
You're like, what?
I'm like four.
Dutch.
Totally the Dutch.
I can say that I'm Dutch.
Totally.
So, um, yeah.
I kind of took that level of intensity,
uh, into training to be a naturalist,
survivalist and tracker.
And, um, just decided, hey, like this is
something, I actually just felt really
compelled to do it.
I started having these incredible experiences
in nature that I just couldn't understand or
even share with people.
They seem so I don't know, magical
and crazy and.
Right.
Um, I just felt compelled by something I couldn't
understand, could make this my life.
It really wasn't a conscious decision of,
hey, this seems neat, I'm going to do it.
It was like something I just, I had to do
it, even though I was like, this is crazy.
Who cares about starting fires with sticks?
Like, I, I shouldn't care about this.
Man, I, you know, as a kid, there was this
group called Friends of the Fort and this
was out in Fort Langley and they'd dress up in
buckskins and moccasin.
Oh yes I've been to it!
You remember that?
Yes!
So there is a fellow there who was making
flintlock rifles and I grew up in a, in
a firearms family.
And so my dad was getting into making his
own kentucky rifle and.
Cool.
Yeah, and I started getting into that
area as well, made my own moccasins and.
Nice!
Got wearing my, my knickers and I'd go
out into Fort Langley.
And when they did portage's and.
Yeah.
I don't know, it was kinda, it was kinda
neat, but I, you, you took that whole thing
to the next level.
I mean, you, you really pushed that, do you
still feel that burning desire in yourself to,
to keep foraging down the primitive path?
Yeah, I do actually, even more so now.
I did take, it's not like it took a break
from it, but I, I did move out into the
wilderness and become an off-grider, which is
a different lifestyle than a primitive
survivalist, if you will.
Right.
I mean, it has elements obviously of both, but
being an off-grider is just a lot of
hard labor work.
Totally is.
Um, building a cabin and all of that took
a lot of me, from just simply hiking around
the forest and trying to touch animals
and doing what I do.
So there was like several years where it was just
more grunt laboring and, you know, taking time
to do those things that I really wanted to do.
But, um, I'm kind of, yeah, I'm just kinda
getting back into the learning more
about the old skills.
I, I've reconnected, I was adopted.
Okay.
And I've reconnected with my birth family,
which has been really exciting and, um,
yeah, really exciting.
I mean, it's been a lot of emotion.
Don't get me wrong.
Totally.
But, um, so I found my family and some cousins
and through that, I've recently found my birth
mother and I'm Ojibwe.
Um, so it's really excited to go back
to Ontario and do a survival treck out there.
Learning with, I've met a man that's going to
teach me how to make a birch bark canoe.
So cool.
And, I know.
I'm going to go out onto the land there where my
ancestors are from and kind of relive that area
and landscape, which I'm really excited about.
Did you know that you were adopted or
did you find that?
Oh yeah, I've known, ever since I was
born, I don't remember not being adopted.
Um, my parents have always been
very open about it.
But it's interesting this whole circle of my life
coming around, you know, when I was a little kid,
all I wanted to do is, you know, live off the
land and, you know, every Halloween I would dress
up as like a native kid.
And, um.
It's just in your blood.
Yeah, so clearly, there is a reason why
I was learning all about it, it's just.
Oh that's interesting.
A part of me.
Yeah.
So it's been really interesting and fun
and to reconnect with that and just start
learning all about just the Anishinaabe.
And I'm really excited about it.
Now, so I wasn't adopted, but I'm just thinking
about it now, did you feel, maybe a sense of
social isolation, as in that, or maybe just a
level of connectedness?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
And I've actually just in the last couple
months have been really delving into that.
I mean, there was definitely a, I
would say, not a separation perhaps,
but just a belonging, I think is the word.
You know, it's not like a don't belong
with my family now.
I love my family.
Sure.
I mean, that's my mom and my dad
and my brother.
Um, but there is a sense as an adopted person
that, you know that you're not related.
Um, and I think that has permeated my whole
life of this, not belonging with other,
you know, I didn't know my heritage, you know,
I'm Scottish and, um.
Cool.
Yeah.
I'm Scottish and Native and, uh, I didn't
know any of that.
So I've spent most of my life studying
Native traditions and Celtic traditions,
which is interesting.
So you have your bannock with your Haigis?
That's right!
Um, yeah, I think, I think that's why I've
been always attracted to nature because I feel
like I belong there.
It's like the one place that, that is truly
my home and my people in a way, you know?
Totally.
Um, So, yeah, I think that's also why I've
been, I love being alone.
I'm totally comfortable being alone.
I think that's why it was great for the
show, because I've always played by
myself as a little kid.
I've no problem, I can always entertain.
I'm never bored.
Do you find it difficult to socialize in groups?
Do you find it maybe particularly, after
you've been alone for a while, that transition
period, is that a difficult transition?
I would say I used to be, uh, I used to, to
be honest, people used to really irritate me.
Um, I just.
I can hear that.
I just, yeah, I'd rather do things myself.
Um, wasn't a great team player.
Um, but once I went on Alone, I honestly,
it was so strange.
I went on TV show Alone, so figure out what
it's like to be alone.
And it turned out when I came back from that,
that I just, I got this incredible love
of humanity out of it.
Um, which made no sense to me, but when
I left and while I was out there, I just, I
don't know, it was just this incredible night.
And just all of a sudden was like, wow,
I love people, where I would never have
said that before.
And if you talk to anybody that was on
that show prior to now, they're like, yeah, I
don't know what happened to Nikki out in the
woods, but something fundamentally changed
about this woman.
Was it like a light switch?
Yeah, it was just like instantaneously
one night I was crawling into my bed.
That's interesting.
I know.
It's like, I was struck by some star
and I'm like, wow.
I feel like an entirely different person.
It took me about a year getting back off
the show to figure out who I was and how to
interact because I was so genuinely concerned
and interested about other people where before
I honestly, I didn't really care too much
about what was going on in other people's
lives, as much as I should have or wanted to.
Was there an event that somehow triggered that
rewiring of the brain?
Yeah, i, I wish I could say what it was and
I've gone back through time and time again and
my journals and stuff.
I mean, you're not allowed to write anything
when you're on Alone.
Okay.
So there's no way of recording down what's
happening to you daily.
Um, and so it becomes harder after to get
back those memories and leaving the show in the
way I did, you know, I was pulled out, it was
pretty traumatic for me.
So I had quite a lot of trauma after that
initially for the first couple of weeks back.
And so, not that I've lost memories of it, but
it's hard to get back all of the things that happen
to you on a daily basis on a show like that.
So I don't know what triggered that moment.
I feel like it's my life, you know, just
every little thing, step, had come up to
this moment where I was alone in the Arctic.
And I was like, yay.
Here's who I truly am.
And I'm not afraid to be who I truly
am anymore because I was on that show.
And, um, I think there was just a lot of
things that happened to me emotionally and
spiritually on Alone that I had never dreamed
would have happened.
The universe unfolds as it should.
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Well you talk about a spiritual side, and I
want to touch on that because you talk about
it in your book as well.
And I, and I find a couple of things that you
wrote really interesting, but before we go there,
what were some of the most difficult things
you found about being alone for 51 days?
Um, I really didn't find anything difficult
about being alone.
It was amazing as soon as I stepped off that
helicopter, I just like, couldn't wait to see
that thing disappear.
You know, I was like, yes, I'm finally gonna
know what it's like to truly be alone.
Like we just don't get that.
I don't know if it's a luxury, but we
just don't get that experience in modern
life anymore to be alone.
I mean, it's.
You don't.
It's impossible to find.
Not in the cities anyways, that's for sure.
No and so I was like really excited to feel
what that was going to feel like, and I
had never felt more connected to my friends
and my family and my teachers in my whole life
while I was on alone.
Like it was almost to the point where I just
felt there were so many people around me.
I get goosebumps thinking about it.
I'd be like, look people, back up.
Like I just, I need some space around
like fire pit.
So I, I never missed anybody.
I thought I ,actually thought I felt kind
of bad about it.
I was like, I should probably feel bad,
I don't miss a single person, but.
I felt like I could just reach out to
them and there they were, you know, I had
certain things in place.
Like when the moon, full moon was there,
my grandmother would be thinking about me.
And at night, you know, I had different
things that, my mom would light a candle.
And I don't know if that helped or not, but, um, I
certainly never felt like there wasn't a moment
I could reach out to, uh, even a teacher with
an answer I needed and immediately my mind would
be filled with, hey, that's a great idea where
it came from, I don't know, uh, you know, but.
Really?
It was really, really cool to just have this
incredible sense of connection, even though I
was so far from anything.
That is pretty neat.
So I never, I never had any, just loneliness or
I miss my family so much or anything like that.
I have no, no experience about that., The things
that are painful for people on the show.
Right.
I didn't feel those things that others
went through.
Do you find it hard to quiet the
voices in your head?
I mean, we have so many distractions in
our day-to-day life, living in the city or
living in civilization and with technology and
text messages and social media and all the rest.
I personally find it takes me a few days
anyways, when I'm out in the bush to decompress.
And in those few days, my head is just going crazy.
And all of this stuff that maybe I haven't
thought about in a long time starts popping
in and, uh, arguments I've had in the past
start popping up and you have, all of
this inner dialogue.
If I'm on my own long enough, eventually
that changes.
But it doesn't go away, but it changes.
Yeah.
What's your experience with that?
Because I've never been 51 days alone.
Yeah.
Um, I, I have learned how to control
the inner chatter.
Um, it's I think one of the most important
survival skills we can have is to learn how
to control our mind and our emotions far
more than the skills.
Totally.
Um, and so I've done a lot of work in my life
to, it's not, I think there's a misconception.
It's not turning it off because our mind is our
most powerful thing.
So I don't want to turn my mind off because it
thinks up amazing stuff.
And it's going to save my life in a lot of
instances and harm me in different instances.
So.
Right.
I like, I don't necessarily turn it off.
I just focus it.
And when I don't want all the chatter, I have
figured out how to quiet that out mostly by.
Here, I can hear the, I don't want to say
useless chatter, but you know what I mean?
I totally know what you mean.
Just the useless stuff that you're
like, wow, I just need a break from you.
And I, as soon as that comes in, I'm like,
hey, thanks a lot um, not important to me.
And I just don't continue on with the stories
that we tell ourselves.
It it's, it's a habit that I started that I
worked hard on and it's just become natural
now because it does interfere with your time
and in the wilderness.
Like you have to be able to have, uh,
really open and engaged and focused mind when
you're out in the woods.
Otherwise you're going to miss, you
know, that one plant in the Arctic, right?
The four leaves I managed to find that
were edible, right.
I found six Rose hips walking around a
landscape and noticing one old Rose hip.
I mean, you have to be very aware to
even notice that.
And if your mind's chattering around, it's
like, oh I wonder what people are going to
think of me right now, I wonder how I look holding
this camera up when I have, you know, snot
running down my face.
And I'm sure I look like hell, and if you have
those kinds of thoughts, you're literally not
going to be as successful as you could be, so.
Oh you're done.
Um, and, and, and that I think was the one
thing that, um, I loved about the show was,
I just made it, uh, a personal mission to say,
okay, I'm going to try to make the best show
I can for these people.
And I'm going to film everything the
worst, the best, the in-between, you know,
I'm going to cry if I feel like I need to cry.
I'm going to laugh, I'm going to goof off.
I don't, I'm just going to do that all.
And it was the most freeing thing I've
ever done in my life.
Like to be on national TV and especially my
story, if you've seen, obviously like it
was just a wreck out there, total nightmare.
I have no idea why all that happened, but it
was an incredible story of one thing after the
other happened to me.
Like I've, I am definitely gone
down in history as the most accident
prone participant ever in the history.
I don't know if you really want to
claim that, but I will claim that.
So are you generally accident prone?
No, this was so phenomenal
about the story.
Like I'm not, I'm actually, literally
soon as I stepped off that helicopter, I
mean the whole time you say to yourself,
look, if I cut myself, I could be out of here.
I want that $500,000.
So every time I picked up my ass, I was
like, be careful if you get an ax cut.
Every time, every time I picked up my knife, I
would just remind myself.
And, um, there was just, gosh, you know,
I cut towards myself and like I teach
knife safety, right?
Yes.
Oh, you know, the worst was probably I stabbed
myself with my arr- I've actually never
used modern arrows, they're like razorblades,
obviously you know.
Yes, yes.
I was like, whoa, these are razorblades.
And every time I carried one, I was
like, okay, be careful, this is a razorblade
you could literally damage yourself and.
And you did.
And I did, you know, I was pulling up my
pants coming home late from hunting,
looking for moose.
And I just, you know, did that like jump
up with your pants.
Yes.
And I was holding one arrow and one area was
always on, and when I came down, I just
jabbed the back of my leg with the arrow and I
thought, Oh no, it just probably nicked me, it
was like walking down.
Nope.
I could feel the blood drippin'.
I was like, ah, geez.
And you know, it's, this was like, hey
I'm going to film it.
Like, I'm going to film it.
I mean, you don't have to film everything,
which was the unliving thing for my part of the
story for me personally.
I mean, just to be able to say, hey, it's
not that I don't care what people think.
It's just, this is what happened, this is the
truth of what happened.
I'm willing to own up to that truth.
And, um, I'm willing to learn from it
and it's okay that we make mistakes.
And to be able to be, to the world, your
worst moments, like now in my life I'm
like what isn't there I can say or do that.
Totally.
Like it.
It's liberating.
It was, it was the most freedom I've
ever felt in my life.
Wow.
Yeah, it's really cool.
As long as you can carry that with you
in your mind, as you go forward and carry
that experience, you'll continue with that
freedom I should imagine.
Yes.
Yeah, it was.
I mean, I've, just from my experiences, I've
felt what it is like to be truly free, but
this just added another dimension on to that.
That was really, uh, yeah, life-changing
for me, for sure.
Well, you talk about using sap to heal wounds.
My, uh, you know, I don't think my family has got
the best record with booby traps, but I, uh,
I've never met my uncle.
He, uh, he died before, before I was born, but,
uh, uh, he was in Royal 22nd Regiment and had a
faulty grenade that went off and, but, um, I guess
as a kid, he wanted to make a booby trap and
he found an old rusty lawnmower blade and, and,
uh, put a trip wire up and put this blade out
and laid down beside it, measured it out for about
a kid's head height and.
Oh my.
And figured, ahh this will be perfect, right?
The stupid things that kids do right?
And, uh, I guess, some months later, completely
forgetting about it, ran through and tripped and
cut himself in his head.
And the neighbor came out and found him and
he says, I know what we got to do, use some sap.
We gotta use some sap to heal this up.
Nice.
I guess my grandmother had other ideas and took
him to the hospital.
But, uh, does that work?
Yes!
Yeah?
It's great.
Like when I was out in, uh, for the year
and a half, I used sap exclusively.
That . Particular treck, I decided
to only use plants.
I mean, I had a first aid kit that I had brought
out, it was pretty meager to be honest when I look
back at it, but, um, I never had to use it.
I only used plants to, um, heal any of the
injuries and even the biggest gashes, if you
use really clean sap, um, and kinda, I warm
it up and then pour it into the wound.
It, it actually lets the wound heal
from the inside out.
So it acts like a band-aid for one.
Stuff sticks to it at first, but then it
becomes less sticky and then it just kind of
heals from the inside.
So it doesn't get infected because sap
has antibacterial properties in it.
And you don't have to worry about it again.
You don't have to keep changing
dressings or whatever.
Um, just sticks on there.
Does it matter what kind of tree you get it from?
Well, so I had good success with the
firs, uh, Douglas fir.
When I was in the Arctic, I really, I don't know
what was going on there.
Honestly, it was so cold, I would heat up
the pitch and by the time I would even try to get
it on some of my wounds.
It would, it would just, harden right away
cause it was so cold and that's practically
burned my hand, trying to get the pitch in there.
And it would just always kind of fall
out as it would freeze.
So I'm not sure if it's more of a climate
or if it was just different pitch.
I mean, I tried different pitches in the Arctic.
I couldn't quite give you a perfect answer
on that, but the pitch really didn't help.
I was trying to use pitch to heal all the
cracks in my fingers in the Arctic cause
it was really painful.
I could imagine.
And it just never worked.
You know, I've got another story about
booby traps, but I think I'll say that for
a different podcast.
Booby traps are the best.
Booby traps.
It's like that, uh, what was it Goonies?
What was that kid's name with the slick shoes?
Oh my God, I can't remember.
Booby traps.
Totally.
Data!
Yes!
yes.
Data.
That was his name.
So, and I'm not being cheeky here,
but I gotta ask.
Oh, you can be cheeky.
Is Sasquatch real?
Oh great!
Oh.
And not necessarily Sasquatch.
And the reason I ask this is because, and am
I pronouncing this right?
Dzunukwa.
Yeah.
Dzunukwa.
Female Sasquatch.
Yeah, the wild woman of the woods.
Yes.
So this is an incredible question.
It's one of those questions that
you're saying, okay, like, how am I going
to answer this?
Because just the, I don't know, the culture around
Sasquatch is, it's nutty.
Um, but I have to say the native communities,
indigenous people all over the world, there
is some supernatural being, if you will, as
a Sasquatch, whether it's the Yetis and the
Sasquatchs, the Dzunukwa.
I mean, there's so many cultures around the world
that have this being in their, uh, history.
Right.
10,000 years of storytelling of Bakwas
and Dzunukwa for the Northwest people.
I mean, I'm not, obviously can't speak
to their traditions on that being, but
it's alive and well energy that is talked
about where I live.
Um, amongst the people that I have had,
I have to say some pretty incredible,
unexplainable, experiences with things
in the woods that I don't know how to
explain with tracks.
Um, and I've definitely been chased and heard
something coming at me with a friend of mine.
That was extraordinarily scary.
Yeah?
That I have no idea what I was, shaking huge
Alder trees that were about a foot and a half
probably wide making this horrid yelling, screaming
kind of noise and.
Really?
Charging through this thick brush.
I mean, my friend and I just looked at her like,
I have no idea what that is like, is that a bear?
Or like, it wasn't, unlike any sound I've
ever heard a bear make.
I've been around a bears a long time.
Yeah you have.
And I got to say, I don't know what it
was, but my friend and I didn't wait around.
My dog was already like 500 feet down.
See ya!
The trail, just left me.
My friend and I just like ran miles back to
our truck and we never talked about it again.
It was just one of those things like,
hey, you know, years later we'd be like,
hey, remember that hike we took at last lake.
And you're like, Oh yeah.
What do you think that was?
I have no idea.
Okay, well have a good life.
I'll talk to you in a year.
Um,
I like that definition of an energy or
a spirit or a.
Yeah I mean.
A feeling.
There's something.
I mean, I know personally a lot of people who have
claimed to see them.
Um, some old timers that honestly, just
come from a different generation, then they're
not really storytellers in the way people
are storytellers now.
I also have a tracking teacher of mine that
I have asked and said, hey, you know, you've
been out on, you know, investigations.
And he's like, oh yeah, lots of big
foot investigations.
Like, well, what, what do you got for me?
Right.
And he's like, you know, I got to say every single
one of them was faked.
Okay.
And I was like, wow, really?
Like people are putting big feet on and walking
around in the woods and putting on suits.
Like, I don't know why, just to discredit
this potential being out there.
I, I, I, I mean, I, I just don't know
enough, but I will say that indigenous people
around the world have always believed in them.
And I have seen things and know some really
dear friends of mine who have seen things.
I haven't, I can't say I've seen a Sasquatch,
but, um, I've seen some crazy tracks.
And so it was a friend of mine.
Uh, maybe there is some big old, hairy beast out
there that maybe lives in between the worlds.
You know, maybe it can live in between these
two worlds of reality.
And that's what I've heard as well, trans-
dimensional being.
Yeah and hey, you know, science is
proving this stuff.
This isn't spiritual woo-hoo stuff anymore.
I mean, physics and.
A multi-verse.
Yes.
Right.
It's totally proving it with science.
What mystics and you know, medicine men
and women have been saying for eons.
So this is a really exciting time where,
you know, people who are talking about these
spiritual things can be backed up by science
now, and maybe one day we'll find them.
It, it does seem weird to me that we
don't have really definitive proof yet.
Right.
That was so many people in the woods, you know?
And there's so many people in the wilderness.
So I don't know.
It's a hard, it's a hard topic.
Well, apparently Washington has a law
that it is illegal to shoot a Sasquatch.
Oh wow.
And I guess people laughed about it and,
but the reality was is that they were trying to
protect anybody who might be out there dressed
up as a Sasquatch.
Totally!
Cause isn't there a million dollar, uh.
Is there?
There's like a million dollar prize,
or, I don't know if it's a prize, but
a million dollar.
Reward.
Reward for bringing in a Sasquatch body.
Someone will pay a million dollars.
Wow.
I was asked that on a hunting trip one time,
if you saw a Sasquatch, would you shoot it?
No!
I don't know everyone's different, but for
me the answer is no.
If I saw a Sasquatch, no, I would not shoot it.
So.
But they were alive and well, like I'm not
saying alive and, well, I shouldn't say that,
but when I lived out for a year and a half, just
out in the wilderness of BC there, I got to say
all the stories and if I'd run into, you know,
some clam diggers on the beach, you know, we'd
gather around a fire and they'd start telling
stories about Sasquatch.
For sure.
I mean, it was one of the first questions
someone would roll up and you hadn't seen anybody
for like three months and like, hey, have
you seen the big fella?
You're like, no, not yet.
And I'm like, whoa, because you know, my
cousin was here, you know, a couple of years
ago and the Sas was hucking out clams at him.
I've heard that.
Yeah.
And I was like, well, and just all the
stories, you know, some nights, just going to
the, your outhouse or something in the pitch
black and I don't.
Course.
We didn't have headlamps, they didn't
bring a headlamp.
So you're kind of like, Ooh, you know,
I'm hearing strange whistling noises.
You're like, oh, that was, I dreamed about
Dzunukwa a lot out there and it was kinda spooked.
I have to say, I'll be honest, I was spooked.
I didn't want to see a Sasquatch or definitely
not Dzunukwa, you know, with the pierce red
lips and whistling and I mean, she's known
to steal people and.
I've read the stories.
It's not like a, you know, friendly
forest spirit.
Well the reason I asked about that is because
I thought it would be a good segue into, there's
a whole spiritual side in your book and to you
about being outdoors.
And I thought that was a really interesting take
that you have on it.
And some of this stuff that people might look
at it, if they're casual observers would say,
hey, that's really kooky.
Oh, totally.
But there's also, there's a, there is an
inner truth essentially to, to all of this.
And you're talking about birds, essentially
talking to you.
Yeah.
Not like I would imagine, not like saying, Hey
Nikki, come over here.
Yeah, I haven't heard that.
Well, I've heard a tree actually, which is a
crazy story, but no animals haven't just
come out and be like, Nikki what's up as well.
I wish they would, that'd be awesome.
Cinderella doing all your chores for you.
I wish!
So you've, I think it was a Raven, was it?
That you followed and you just felt a bit
of a connection to the Raven and listening
to different animals and the different
noises that they make out in the wild,
would have different meanings behind them.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you can learn, anybody can learn the
language of, I don't just mean nature, I
mean the language of animals, for sure.
I mean, bird language is a very, I'm not
gonna say easy thing to get into, but it's
very well-documented now from teachers that
I've learned from, um, they do have a language
and there is, like you said something deeper.
There's something deeper there.
And I, I just, I can't dismiss it anymore.
I've seen it happen and had these experiences
that there is no doubt that there is
something deeper and beyond of what I can
understand going on.
And animals definitely have shown me that
and opened me up to this kind of spiritual
world that we live in, whether it's in this
room or in nature.
And nature just is the purest place I find to
find it or experience it because it's just
all truthful out there.
There, there, isn't all these other things
that come involved with people and our
society and cultures and our belief systems.
So you can be stripped down to something and
have these experiences out in nature.
Do you have any examples?
Yeah.
Gosh, so many examples.
Um, gosh, um, yeah, just with every
animal, I can't, really simply, like when I
was first learning it.
And this is why I'm sitting here
talking to you today.
I mean, these kinds of ma I use the word magic.
I feel like just, I love it because I'm part,
I haven't really grown up, so magic to me, I'm
just like a little kid.
I love magic.
That was my first job.
I performed magic at kids' birthday
parties when I was in elementary school.
Nice!
And so I feel like magic is just
when you're really connected to something
. Yes, yes.
So, um, just little things, you know,
I'd be sitting in the woods going, Oh,
I don't know what that bird is singing.
Wouldn't it be great, could you just come
and sit on this branch right in front of me
and then sing so then I can actually see you and
I can hear your song.
And literally within seconds, this bird
would fly out of a tree somewhere land on
that exact stick I was imagining and scream
out at song to me and be like, oh my gosh,
did you just hear me?
And it just made me go, wow, that was, you know,
synchronicity or whatever you want to call it.
But there was other, so many more examples.
You know, my book I talk about with the Cougar
that came by and that's been a really powerful
story, a teaching story for me, for sure.
You know, having my greatest fear of being
the dark and cougars and then deciding to
go and sleep outside with a sleeping bag to
try to overcome those fears and lying there.
And, you know, having this animal walk up to me
and then plop down beside me and start purring.
Woah.
You know what I mean?
Just that, I mean, animals don't just
come and lie with you in general.
You know, it happens to some people.
Sure.
Um, but to be actually trying to face that
fear, you know, and then the animal comes and
sleeps right next to me all night, you know,
purring and who was.
It just opened me up to this world that I was
like, wow, some other things are going on here
that I don't know about.
And it's happened to me every time I can go into
the woods, I can have those experiences, small
land and large, you know, we want to have these big
experiences, but there are so many small little
ones that can build up to you being able
to be open, to receive these kinds of things.
And I think one of the things that helped me
was, I have this mentor in my life and he'd
always say, Nikki, when you just go anywhere,
you know, you're out, you're in the forest.
Just say, hi forest, it's Nikki, I'm just here
and he's just the most beautiful man I know.
He'd always be like, hi, this is, you know,
it's Nikki, I'm here.
I'm just letting you know, I'm happy to
be here, whatever, just have this little
minute conversation.
And, uh, I've always done that from him and
you know, whenever I want a question answered
and I need help, you know, going on Alone
was the same thing.
I didn't just make this decision instantaneous.
I was like, hey, I need to go sit in the woods
and I'll get back to you in a few hours.
Right.
And, you know, I went out there and, um, I always
do that and animals will show up or there'll
be some sort of thing.
I mean, I've even, been lost in the woods
legitimately, not very little skills too.
And, um, been like, hey, you know, nature,
I really need some help, like if you can
send me a direction to walk to like, I
gotta get outta here.
And I just sat down quietly and like you were
talking about, I kind of just let go of all the
yacking so I can just really, I see everything
and listen with all my senses in that moment.
So then it does quiet out all those yakking,
if you really use and are looking everywhere
and not moving your head necessarily,
but wide angle vision and listening and
feeling in that moment.
And, um, a bird came and landed right beside me.
This very thrush.
And I was like, oh, like, I'm not saying
anything to it.
I don't want it to fly away, but I'm just like,
okay, there's a bird.
And then it looked at me and then it jumped on the
perch and faced another direction and just
started singing and then jumped back, looked at
me and it jumped, it did this like three times.
And I was like, wow, like, I don't know what
that means, but I'm going to like run in
that direction of like a few minutes before dark.
And I was like, I want to give it 10 minutes.
I'm just going to run that way and popped
out and found my car.
Holy crow!
Yeah.
It was amazing.
You know, there's, there is definitely
a lot of things out there that science
just can't lock down.
And there's like, you're saying
quantum physics and.
Yes.
All of the quantum realities that, uh, being
open to experiencing these things and being
able to either interpret prior to, or interpret
afterwards in a, in a way that I find that
really interesting.
Yeah.
It is about being open.
It's not a judgemental thing.
You know, when you bring in all of the things from
city and your life and your past experiences
into nature, it, they will expose nature,
will expose all of those things, everything.
Your, your strengths, your weaknesses,
everything becomes open.
And so when you can actually be very open
to experiences out there without bringing
all of that with you, then I think you can
have this different connection with nature
that goes much deeper than just the name of
a plant, or this is the behavior of this animal,
but it becomes like a relationship with them.
Instead of just feeling slightly connected
or knowing the facts about something.
There's just this deeper level of relationship
that I've been able to build over the years,
just by being me and being open to even things
I didn't believe in.
You know, just being like, hey, could just
like Sasquatch, could be.
Could be.
You know, I'm not willing to say no or
a hundred percent yes.
Like, um, but hey could be.
So everyone's locked down with, COVID a social
isolation, not being able to see their friends,
but they are encouraging people to be outside.
That's an aspect that I bet a lot of people
don't think about, is that relationship with
the outdoors, would you have any advice for
people to strengthen their relationship with
the outdoors or even just start to appreciate
and allow the, the outdoors to heal them?
Yeah, I do.
And I have been really working on that a lot
in the past month.
I'm designing this business based
around this idea called Luminaria
Wilderness Ventures.
And I do, I want to have people be able to come
out with myself and my team and experience what
I experience to be able to see nature in the
wilderness how I see it.
In a way, not to say that the way I see it
as right, but just as a more of a relationship
building experience, rather than, you know,
we hiked to the top of the mountains and we
get to the view and we take some Instagrammable
pictures, and then we go home and you miss all
the things along the way.
Like I rarely get to the end of a trail.
I just, I, for me right now being in the city,
you know, I'm trying to hike like everybody
and get some exercise and it's all I can do
you to force myself to stay on that trail.
And so I think the one thing that I would say
to people is to slow down, you know, this
idea of slow travel, you know, use you're getting
exercise as one exercise.
You know, if you want to get in shape, that's one
way, but you need to just sit and find a spot that
you go to all the time.
And this idea of the secret spot, you know,
Sam Gribley had it like, um, my teachers have
always taught me about it and to find a place
in nature, even if it's your backyard or your
window or your balcony, and you just sit there,
just sit there for 20 minutes is about what
it'll take people, it's a lot easier or quicker
the more you learn your area and animals
respond to differently.
As you know, like the first three days when
you're on a hunting trip all over the place and.
Yep.
Animals are like running.
Every bird is like, hey, they're coming through.
And then eventually, no, one's caring, not caring
about it, but they're like, Oh, hey, yeah,
they're there, it's not a big deal they're, you
know, you've, you've let go of all of that chatter
in your mind, which is what scares animals away.
So I just slow down, you know.
Slow down.
Just sit in the forest, just go to the park
and sit there and see what you can see.
And eventually all those animals are
going to use, not just used to you there, but
they'll accept you.
You know, pretty soon the squirrel is not going
to be like alarming you for 15 minutes, right?
Yes.
All the little Brown birds will be quiet when
you're walking through the trail, eventually
they're not going to be like human coming, human
coming, and the next bird picks it up and you'll
eventually get that energy about yourself.
That's with nature rather than I'm just
visiting, you know?
And that's what I want to teach people
is how to become, not just a visitor to
the wild spaces, but.
I'm really looking forward to seeing
that business develop.
Mhmm.
You know, I had a, there's an Indigenous
woman who wants told me, she said if the
squirrels started setting their alarm off, quit
hunting that area.
Oh yeah, got to.
They're, they're talking.
The squirrels are talking to the elk, they're
talking to the deer, they're telling them
to stay away and yeah.
I'm like, you know, there's probably some
wisdom to that one.
Oh yeah, they will the birds especially too.
Get to know all the Brown birds.
Yeah?
The birds that live in the tree top,
they don't to care.
They don't care that much about you
because they more live in the tree tops.
So they're more concerned about hey Hawks coming
in, I found the owl, whatever, but the little
Brown birds that live on the ground, the wrens
and the sparrows, man, get to know those guys.
Even the Robbins, because they feed on the ground
because those are the ones that are going to
send all of the alarming.
They can go for miles.
Every bird in the next territory will pick up
a call if it's intense enough and then they'll
spread it that way.
And every deer, every game animal, if you
will, is keyed into bird language, every
single one of them.
And if you're, you know, I mean, you've,
I'm sure seen this.
When I'm trying to get up close to a deer, you
know, when they stop, I stop moving, they look
at you like, hey, if you're still moving, when
this guy's telling us this, you clearly have
no idea what's going on in the woods, you know?
And you can't just freeze all of a sudden
when an animal sees you, then it's like,
why are you frozen still, like, I see you.
You're like, no, I'm just a tree and you're
like, no, I saw you move and now you're not.
So you better pick up and start grazing or
start nibbling on leaves.
And then the deer will be like, okay,
you're a grazer.
Okay, I get that, cause I'm a grazer.
Okay, awesome.
Now, now you're picking up that berry and eating
it, like, okay, like I feel a lot less sketched
of you now because you're showing signs
of doing what I do.
That's interesting.
See, when I was younger, I was taught
a 45 degree trick for getting rabbits.
Never go right towards a rabbit.
Pretend you're not interested at all.
Go at about 45 degrees and play around on the,
but for some reason I never actually put a
correlation between that and any other animals.
Absolutely.
Dear, I mean, I can get just like touchin'
dear, because you can, if you stop when
they stop and they're looking, you're like,
oh, I'm looking over in that direction too.
I don't often know what, you know, what
they saw or hear.
I mean, they have huge ears, I can't possibly
hear what they're hearing on a level, but
I can look in the same direction and stop and
they're like, Oh, sweet.
Nikki stopped too.
That's great, um, perfect.
Because if you don't and you're still
oblivious, then they get all nervous, you know?
And if you're like, hey, don't worry about me.
I mean, when I'm stocking up and I don't want
them to see me, it's different, but once
they have seen you or you screwed up and
they're like, oh, hey, I see you over there.
You're like, oh right, well, I'm just, you
know, eating too.
Um, and then they're like, oh, okay.
Um, yeah, and it's, it's a really fun way
of learning different types of animal
behavior, for sure.
Do you have any tips for stalking an
animal if you don't want them to see you?
Yeah.
If you don't want them to see you, for sure.
Like, so, uh, yeah, I mean kind
of still hunting.
Yeah.
It's my, obviously the only way I know how,
um, I mean, I can sit in a blind as anybody,
but I, I get too fidgety after a while.
I'm like you.
I just am like, oh, okay, this is
getting a little, um.
So yeah, like I, um, I definitely, I learned
this from my cat, actually that I took
in the bush with me.
Okay.
Um.
Scout.
Yes.
Uh, she's all time stalker.
So she would always, um, she always stops in
the shadows, obviously.
She would never go across an open space ever.
I mean, if she did, she was just skirting
or on her belly.
I mean, it was amazing to watch her and open
spots and she would wait until there was some
sound or movement in nature and then move.
Like she would never move when there wasn't
either a leaf falling or a bit of a rustle
and then she would move.
And she would, and I learned this too, from
a class of mine and camouflage, cause it's
my favorite thing to do.
And um, it's like imagining you are that,
that you're hiding behind or it goes on
to what we've just been talking kind of this
spiritual invisibility.
There's something different about
camouflaging your mind than just your body.
Right.
You know, I, I can be in full pink whatever,
bright red clothing and can have the same
results as if, when I'm fully camouflage, when
I'm really good at just camouflaging my mind.
All the thoughts that pop in there, fear,
especially, or like aggressive feelings.
Um, I've seen this with a lot with cougars,
um, when you're in a situation being really
close to them, if you just take this really you
know, gentle breath and let it out immediately,
they will let it out that coming together.
So close to animals for so many times in my
life, I've seen my body reaction in them and
it's been able to make me instantaneously, be
able to let go of any fear, any emotion, any
kind of, besides just peace, you know, and
just this calmness, um, otherwise you're dead.
So you gotta kind of learn it pretty quickly,
but, um, there's ways of practicing
it with animals that aren't dangerous.
You know, like you can practice it with
Robbins, are great.
I mean, Robbins are hard.
Okay.
Herons are amazing animals stalk.
If you can stalk up to a Heron, I mean, you can
get any animal because they are the ultimate in
silence and slow movement and that, and so practice
on these other animals that aren't dangerous.
And then you can learn and see how you can
control your emotions better in those moments.
Because as soon as you go, oh my gosh, I don't
have my knife on me and there's a Cougar four
feet from you, that rise immediately, I've
seen cougars, just turn their head and look
at me with the most intense eyes that you're
like, I'm about to die.
And then you're like, oh no, I love you,
like, everything's good, everything's calm.
And then immediately they go back to
what they're doing.
And then as soon as you get that feeling of like
that moment where you're about to take a shot and
you're getting, you know, you gotta just they'll
feel sense that they, they, they sense more
than I think people, um, really give them credit
for on this, I don't know, energetic level.
I believe it, you know, when I was younger
being taught cam and concealment and one of
the trixie instructor said was if your
camouflage and somebody is walking by, don't
make eye contact, don't look at them, right?
Look to the side, use the periphery of your vision.
Yes.
He says, don't ask me why it's hoodoo
voodoo kinda thing.
Totally it is!
But you look at them and more often than
not, they'll just turn and stare right at you.
Right at you!
Exactly.
I mean one time I was practicing this.
I'll never forget, so cool.
You've reminded me of the story.
I haven't thought about it for years, but I was
practicing invisibility and I was sitting on a
park bench and it wasn't a lot of people around,
but I was sitting on this park bench and, you know,
watching these ducks in front of me or whatever.
And I noticed some people coming down the trail.
And I was like, okay, like, um, I'd been
there, sitting there quite a while and the
person came up and I thought they were just
going to walk by me, but they didn't, they
started slowing down.
I was like, Oh, maybe they're
coming to sit here.
So I just stayed in this space.
And one lady almost sat on me, until
I was like, hey.
And she tried to like, Oh my God, you just
appeared, you literally were not there and I
was like, no, I've been here the whole time.
Just like, no you weren't.
I was like, yes!
This lady almost sat on me.
Like it was so good.
Mission accomplished!
Mission accomplished.
Um, yeah, that was fun.
So yeah, I mean, camouflage is,
is so much fun.
I just, I love it.
There's such a depth to it, rather than
just smearing stuff on your face that people
think it is, you know?
Totally.
Yeah.
So in 2011, you mentioned a traumatic experience
where you nearly died and it mimicked in many
ways, your dream of Dzunukwa, but a barred
owl saved your life.
Afterwards, after the event from what you
described, looks like you were suffering from a
form of PTSD essentially.
Oh, definitely.
Definitely.
I have no problem saying, Hey, I've lived through
some traumas and have suffered through PTSD.
If you think that's valid for your listeners.
Well it just, it was an interesting thing that
came up and I don't want to be taking the podcast
in a certain direction if it's not a place you're
comfortable with, but with people who have
been through trauma.
Yeah.
I did a podcast with a, a fellow who runs
a, an outfit in Alberta and it's called Veteran
Hunters and they do.
They take veterans out hunting and they use,
it's sort of like the Japanese have nature
bathing, but he takes an activity which some
people would, uh, ascribe violence and, uh, sort
of a negative energy too.
He says, no, no, no, no, no.
You're, you're out there, you're
stalking the animal.
You're with like-minded people who've been
through like experiences and using nature in,
in a hunting situation.
Yeah but I mean, you need to learn all
kinds of things to be a great hunter.
So, I mean, it is much more than just
killing animals.
Absolutely.
It's a great program.
And he uses that to assist people to work
through their PTSD.
And I guess with mental health being
on the forefront with everybody in lockdown
and with COVID, and I guess the question
that I was asking you there, was essentially
from an interest side in the story, but why
don't we keep that as a personal story for you?
And.
Yeah, no, I have no problem, I love talking
about this stuff.
You know, my, my new, my new company is, is part
of its foundation is based on our emotional
state that we're in.
Um, I personally have lived through quite
a lot of traumas and PTSD events.
So I really want to bring that as part of
my business as well.
I'm going to hire, um, different
alternative therapists and things as well.
Um, I'm not gonna go into great detail
with my company in it.
Right.
But I do believe that nature is an amazing
place for healing and to work through just
common issues that we're all going through during
COVID, especially.
I mean, it doesn't need to be PTSD levels,
but you know, our depression is, you know,
a growing concern, um, in youth and in adults.
And so, yeah, I do believe that wilderness
places are a way for us to be able to be free
enough and be who we truly are to deal with
these kinds of, um, mental problems that
we're having in our lives, in our, in our,
in our culture for sure.
Um, I know for a fact, especially with Alone,
uh, I'll be very honest.
It was very traumatizing for me to be pulled
out, um, how I was on the show.
Tell me about that.
Um, yeah, I mean, it did traumatize me.
There was no doubt.
I mean, I was feeling the happiest and most joyous
I can ever remember being on, on a survival treck.
I never felt pain and suffering and I was never
tired and exhausted.
And just all those things that come with
survival that you have to work through.
Somehow I have no idea how this happened, but
somehow I just, I never felt those things.
I was never hungry, even though it
was barely eating.
Um, I had, I could hike for miles on my trapline
and not feel tired.
I mean, it just felt amazing.
Even though I was losing a lot of weight and I
had lost an extraordinary amount of weight.
How much weight did you lose?
Um, I, it was over 30 pounds.
I came in, I think at about 126 pounds, which
wasn't a lot, I really should try to fatten up.
My body's like, I don't do this.
And you're like, no, please, I'm going on a
show about being fat, I need extra weight.
Um, and I think I got down to 97 . Pounds.
Wow.
I mean, it was a lot.
And so really there was concern of my
weight loss, there was no doubt about it.
And, um, I was concerned to a certain point.
Um, I certainly had never seen my body.
I knew that there was concern in the
producers, I could tell.
I mean, they're very, you know, straight face.
I mean, they're not yakking into your
ear and it's just very like, Hey, I'm
doing my job here.
I'm taking your vitals and blah,
blah, blah, blah.
I could tell sometimes when I would lift up
my shirt as much as they were, I was like,
ooh, they looked a little concern there.
Um, and so yeah, when I got taken off the
show, um, it was, was like, as if I was being
kidnapped is how I felt.
My mind made it seem like I was being kidnapped
against my will.
And I spent about two weeks, um, trying to
heal from that, uh, out in the field.
And the production was incredible.
They gave me every resource and people
to talk to and psychiatrists and.
Wow.
Amazing food and a recovery program.
And they did everything they could to help me.
But going from this experience where I'm
like living as happy as I could ever be in my life,
to quickly, getting on an airplane and flying
into a hospital to be tested for something
that I was like, there's nothing with me.
Um, and then it's like, ah, we're just going
to have to monitor you in town and then
being in town and just my mind just snapped.
And I was like, I need to get out to
the woods again.
And, um, so I got back out to the woods and
took about two weeks in this little cabin
and they were really great and letting me
kind of go out of my cabin when I wanted to.
And I started talking and doing just
like what I said.
I'm like, wow, I really feel terrible about the
last, you know, hare that I trapped, um,
on the day that I was taken out a hare that I
found on the trap line, as I was taking my trap
line before I left.
I was like, I'm not leaving here until
I take all my traps down like, so they
hiked around with me.
Good for you.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, just, it was a slow process and
I realized how important nature was for me.
And I think for other people too, can be
a place to really be able to you know, see
the patterns in your life from your past
experiences that are still with us and
into our future that we still live from.
And there are mostly these false beliefs
systems that we have about ourselves.
These stories that we tell ourselves that
is a complete lie.
Um, you know, especially from traumatic
situations, we, we make up all kinds of coping
mechanisms and, um, these things can really come to
light in the wilderness because it's just such
a pure place to be.
And safe, you know, as much as we're, can be
afraid of big game and wildlife and spiders and
the dark and all these other things like in a
safe environment with safe people that know how
to take care of you and teaching you to take care
of yourself in nature, I think is a great space
for, um, helping to heal ourselves and the planet.
I really feel like now that the way to
save our planet is by healing ourselves.
I mean, and that's kind of the mission of my
new company is just.
Woah.
Trying to help people have this relationship
with nature in a different way.
Um, through look, I'm a big adventure fan.
So I'm all about pushing the edge, whether it's
pushing the edge of adventure or pushing the
edge of self-discovery.
And that's kind of what my new company
is going to be about.
That's a very ambitious goal.
It is.
It's all going to be, uh, really customized
to each individual group or person, um, so that
it can be fine tuned to what your fears are
potentially or what your, what animals you
want to, you know, make better relationships
with or see, or so it'll be really customized
to like your interests and nature, so it's.
Very cool.
Um, it's not just going to be like a
one-stop shop for sure.
Well, I'm going to put some links up in
the, in the bio and on the YouTube page.
I know it's a, uh, a fledging business.
Yes.
Do you have a website for it?
I don't have the website.
I just was a-okayed by the name, which
I can't believe the process that I went
through through that.
I finally decided to make a phone call
and say, look, it's impossible to name a
company in 2021, that isn't already out there.
I'm sorry.
Right.
Like I'm looking up Sanskrit dictionary
just to come up with some words.
Come on!
They finally a-okayed it and I've incorporated it.
And so I'm just moving into the next steps of
getting the website out.
And I have a great team of people
already ready and.
Well, that's.
I'm excited about it.
Hugely helpful.
Yeah, trying to get a business started in
this day and age in some ways, like if you
want an internet based business or something
online, incredibly easy.
Yes.
Low barrier to entry.
If you want to have a physical boots on the
ground, bricks and mortar type of a business,
holy crow, the number of barriers that you
have to work through.
Oh, I had no idea and I, I'm way over my head
in this, you know, my skills are actually in
the forest, not sitting like trying to design
those corporation.
But I'm hiring great people that are
experts in their own worlds and to help me.
And, um, yeah, I it's, it's, uh, it's one of
those things, you know, I've always said, um,
I'm always doing what scares me the most and
I got to say, starting this business is pretty
scary, so I know I must be on the right track.
Good for you, Nikki.
Well, is there anything else that
we should chat about?
What other, what are things for your
listeners, would they be interested in?
This whole thing is a figment of my ADHD mind
because The Silvercore Podcast, is on paper
about hunting, firearms, foraging, fishing,
outdoor pursuits, and the people in businesses that
comprise the community.
Yeah.
But in reality, I've had the inventor of the
invisible cloak on here.
Nice!
Really cool guy.
And I would have called BS, unless I had,
I've got a picture in here holding it up.
Sick.
And the, the guy, Guy Cramer, brilliant fellow.
And I thought, well, you know, camouflage,
that's that that's a hunting thing.
We'll fit that in, right.
Yeah.
We've had a fellow came top of his class on
FBI, Virginia Quantico, firearms instructor, and
a suffered a horrific motorcycle accident
and another fellow who was mauled by a grizzly
bear and fought it off of this pocket knife.
I mean.
Yeah.
The idea behind this podcast is I want to
talk with people who I find interesting and.
Yeah.
I want to have fun.
So if the listeners don't like what I'm talking
about, they could tune into something else.
I'm not, I'm not doing it for likes and listens
or anything like that.
This is just me having fun.
Yeah.
I'm trying to think of, um, everybody wants to
hear some of the stories.
That never get published, you know,
you know what I mean?
Um, I love talking about things that
obviously all the big events that happen you
have to share, because those are so cool.
Sure.
But there's always these other underlining
stories that happen to any of us in the woods
that don't get shared.
And especially on a television show, um, you
know, someone else is telling your story and.
Yeah.
It's hard to, like, there's not much time to,
they'll tell your story.
So it has to be the big events or whatever.
Um, and yeah, I, I, I'd never thought that going
on a reality TV show for one and a game show, be
anything that I would, you know, want to do.
But you're competitive.
But I'm super competitive.
And I finally realized that there was
$500,000 on the line.
I did not know in the previous
years I was asked.
So.
Really?
Yeah I was asked for like five years, every
year since it started.
And I was like, oh yeah, I'm not really into that.
I'm kind of doing stuff or whatever.
And then on season six, they're like,
yeah, you don't want to win the $500,000.
I was like, what?
Half a million.
Sign me up.
Yes!
Where are we going?
And I remember she said, uh, yeah, we're
going to the Arctic.
And I was like, ooh, yeah, I don't really
know anything about snowy locations or
been in the snow.
Um, is there trees and cause all I thought was
polar bears and you know.
Icebergs, penguins.
Icebergs, ice and polar bears that eat you.
And she's like, oh yeah, I think so.
I was like, how about I need a hundred percent
definition, there's some trees and then
they'll get back to you.
So anyways, she was like, yeah, there'll be trees.
And so I was like, okay.
Um, but yeah, I think one of the things I learned
about, um, hunting when I was on Alone was,
you know, I'm not, I'm not a big game hunter.
I've only shot animals, bows and arrows,
I don't think of myself as a hunter.
Um, I'm a trapper, I have a trap line.
I really don't think of myself as a
trapper much either.
Sure.
But it was so amazing to learn how to
be a hare trapper.
It was, I think the best part of
my time out there.
And I would never have believed that that would
have been something I would have been
that excited about.
And it was so incredible to learn about an
animal really didn't know anything about,
I've never lived with hares or rabbits,
um, and to, you know, have to ditch fishing
because it's just, I didn't have a spot I
needed to wait till it froze over and I was
wasting too much time.
So I was like, okay, I'm switching, I'm gonna just
get me a hare trapper.
And so walk the landscape and try to find sign
that I would, you know, I'd read about,
but it wasn't really have that experience
in the woods with and setting up the traps.
Like really learning from every rabbit that
I trapped, like to be able to learn on the go
like that, for your very existence and the money,
you know, I was there.
Sure.
Not for the experience.
The only thing I was there for was that money.
Right.
I gotta say, I didn't have these other things
that most people do going on the show, like, yeah,
I want to test myself.
I was like, no, kind of already done that.
Been there, done that.
I was like, I just want the money.
Like, that's it.
And, um, to have something like
that, fueling you is really odd too.
Um, And so that I think the learning how to
trap that the hares was this really incredible
way to, has what we've been talking about
the whole afternoon of getting a relationship
with that land, was through the rabbits
and through trapping.
It wasn't me wandering around and, you
know, sitting there and getting berries.
It was actually hunting animals that,
um, connected me with that land in a
much more deeper way.
And I think that's something that people
don't often think about as far as the
hunting world, you know.
But I learned so much about that land and
the history and the other animals that were
living there through those rabbits and the
rabbits that I was successful in getting.
And, um, it was a really profound kind
of realization for me that, wow, this is one
path to developing this relationship that I'm
talking about, which you wouldn't imagine
necessarily to be.
But it brings a whole wholeness to the story
by utilizing that animal for my own life.
It does.
Um.
You know, non-hunters will have a difficult
time understanding that.
Yeah.
Because they look at the act of hunting,
quite, the initial imagery is typically
male dominated, firearm and shooting an animal.
And that's hunting in the non hunter and
most non hunters mind.
When the diversity in hunters is growing
on a daily basis.
Yeah.
The act of actually, if you're using a firearm
to hunt, of shooting is only just a minuscule
portion of everything that's involved.
And hunters share and understanding of the land
and an understanding of the animals, in a way
that non-hunters would have a very difficult
time to, to appreciate.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And I will say there was, there's so many
moments where, you know what I mean, having a
hare in your trap was like, this is another
day I get to live out in this amazing space.
I mean, when I would find an animal or shoot
a squirrel, it was like, yes, like couple more
days out here I got.
Like, just everyday I woke up thinking that
like, yes, like I'm so excited for life,
this intensity and joy for life every day out
there was so incredible.
And to be able to bring that back into
my life now has changed my life completely.
And, um, I have to say sometimes I'd be
walking my trap line and you know, you'd
see the rabbit off in the distance and I'm
like, okay, come on.
At least just this one time don't cry.
Okay, just come on, you can do it.
You know?
And I walk up there like, yes, like, you
know, I don't have to just, and then all of
a sudden I'd see it.
I'd just be like so grateful and you know,
the sense of gratitude that happens to you out
there in a real survival situation like that.
Gosh, this, this gratitude is
overwhelms me.
And I just said like, Oh gosh, okay.
Well I definitely, after crying, it's so fun.
And then eating rabbit, that was
your primary source of protein, was it?
Yeah.
Rabbits and squirrels.
Uh, and wow.
I'd never I've tasted hare before, but
wow, it was so good.
I can't believe it.
Uh, people always are laughing.
Cause my favorite part, like my dessert was
always the eyeballs.
I can't believe how good those rabbits, the
bunny eyeballs were.
It was so good.
I just saved them to the end and the tongue.
You and Bear Grylls, eh?
So ridiculous.
I was like, Oh wow.
You know, it's the classic drama
of television.
I was like, no, wait, this is gourmet,
I have to say.
Eyeballs.
I'm elevating these guys to gourmet.
I've had fish eyeballs.
Oh yeah.
They're pretty good.
Yeah.
These are better.
Better?
I don't know why, but yeah.
I'm all about making, you know, gourmet wild meals.
Forget those like disgusting gray
soups with ash and charcoal bits in there.
Yes.
It's like Bear Grylls episode where he had
Will Ferrell out in the whole celebrity take.
Yeah, yeah.
And, uh, they just ate the eyeball off.
I forget what creature, but then later on
there's a, I think it was an eagle flying
above and Will Ferrells, hmm I wonder what it's
eyeballs taste like.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
He's classic for eating just gross stuff.
Oh totally.
That's his claim to fame.
Totally.
But I guess if you're just eating squirrels and
rabbits, isn't there, so, the lack of fat that's
required in order for you to keep the pounds
on, but isn't there a craziness, what's the
word I'm looking for?
Isn't there supposed to be like rabbit fever?
Yeah.
It's like a rabbit starvation or
rabbit poisoning.
There's an actual term for it.
I should know it.
Um, but you do and you can't live off rabbit.
Right.
We proved that on Alone um.
Sure.
You literally can't, there's no fat, so
that's why fish is pretty important.
Right.
Because they do have a lot of fat on them and
you know, there's fat around the kidneys or
whatever, but it's so minuscule that, um, yeah,
you will die from eating rabbit after awhile.
It's just too high in protein.
I've heard that you have some sort of a,
uh, you can go a little nutty before dying.
Or am I off base on this one?
Pretty sure you go nutty, once you start
starving to death.
Yeah, I guess so.
Yeah definitely.
Your functions of your brain start going down.
Knew a fellow.
His name was Mike Gallon and he owned a
place years ago called Mike's Musket Shop.
Uh, he was a multimillionaire who
decided to leave his mansion and all of
his property to his wife and his son.
And he went up to Lillooet and they called
them the grape rancher.
He built himself a little cinderblock
house, and I think he could speak those five
different languages, a very eccentric fellow.
And he was talking about, uh, when he was in the
concentration camps and the amount of weight
that he lost and some of the atrocities of
the rest, but his first meal that he had when
he was out was a very high, fat content meal.
And he would always tell me that meal
almost killed them.
Yes.
Well, um, the production team of Alone, they have
a very strict re-feeding program for the, for
that exact reason.
Um, because we are starving to
death out there, literally, literally.
I mean, there's been some serious cases of
people being pretty sick, um, and pushing
yourself to that point of like, wow, like I can
barely walk, you know.
I know on my first treck I got to the point
I could barely walk.
Uh, I know what that feels like.
You can barely move around, like
picking up any pot.
You're like, can't even, you're just
skin and bones.
Right.
Um, but yeah, so Alone does do that.
They have an incredible re-feeding program
so that you don't just shock your body.
And it sucks, you know, for most participants
because they're like, dude, I just.
Fill me up!
Really haven't eaten anything for two weeks.
Um, I just want to eat, you know, chocolate
and candy and whatever.
And so there's just this very long procedure
that goes on when you get out of the field,
which is fantastic.
Otherwise, yeah, there's a lot of problems
that can happen.
So do you have a, you have a nutritionalist
there, um, that you talk to and she makes
up all the meals based on your story out there.
So if you hadn't last, you know, if you weren't
out there as long, then it's different
for people who have gone to a certain stage
and certain of their, you know, bodies.
Yeah.
Their weight to their cardio.
I mean, you're all, you have all kinds of
tests done on you to determine where you're
at in your re-feeding.
What was your re-feeding process?
What did that look like?
You know, gosh, I was so caught up in my mind.
I literally don't really remember much.
I remember them, you know, they see, yeah.
It's broth mostly a broth.
Um, there's no solid foods right away.
So it's just mostly soup with just a broth.
Bone broth is um, and then once you get through
the bone broth, um, you start getting, I
don't know, there would be, maybe a Cracker.
I think crackers came pretty late actually.
I think the breads and stuff were
very late in it.
Um, I, I honestly hardly remember.
I remember just eating, um, and just journaling.
Like I journaled for four days straight without
leaving, doing anything.
I never slept, I probably didn't sleep for nine
days or something.
Seven or nine days when I came out.
Really?
Oh yeah.
It was just like.
Just wired.
Yeah.
Journaling and just like, so, oh my gosh,
there was so much going on and being, I don't
just out of that wild setting into, you know,
modern, I guess, world, if you will, was just so
overwhelming with your senses being so expanded.
Yes.
And it just drove me crazy.
You can hear every single thing.
So, um, I just journaled and was just like, I'm
just gonna write like how I felt out there and
why don't I feel like that now, like I need
to get back and then I would just tell them,
like, I just want to get back to how I was
feeling in the woods and then I'll be ready to go
home and call my family.
I mean, I didn't call my family for a couple
of weeks probably until I was like, hey, I
figured everything out.
I'm ready to go.
Did, did you actually have to figure it out?
Yeah, I did.
Did you?
I, um, they were great.
I said, uh, you know, I need some crayons
and some big paper and I just turned
my cabin into this.
It kind of looked like that reminds me of that
movie um, beautiful mind.
Yes.
You know, where he's got all that, like
that's what this cabin looks like.
And it was so amazing when they would come
in to, you know, the doctors would be
there or whatever.
And they're like, okay.
It looks like you're doing a lot
of work in here.
As they're looking around like, crazy town.
I'm really got my stuff together.
Like I'm just figuring everything out.
And, um, so he.
You can just bring me a typewriter and a
whole bunch of stamps.
They got me a journal
book and I just started writing and, um, it
was really amazing.
I started venturing out nature obviously and had
some incredible, magical experiences on my healing
and the Arctic to that, the animals just were
like, hey, we're here.
Like, um, it was really neat.
Wow.
Really, really neat.
Well, Nikki, thank you very much for being on
this Silvercore Podcast.
I really appreciate you coming out here talking.
It's been really fun.
I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
Thank you so much for having me.