WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.560 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where chemical means business. 00:00:05.930 --> 00:00:09.710 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.710 --> 00:00:13.620 from leaders, driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:18.830 Each week, we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.830 --> 00:00:20.580 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:21.959 Let's get started. 00:00:23.445 --> 00:00:24.785 Victoria: Welcome back to The Chemical Show. 00:00:24.825 --> 00:00:30.115 Today, I am speaking with Mark Plamondon, who is the executive director of the 00:00:30.115 --> 00:00:32.285 Alberta Industrial Heartland Association. 00:00:32.605 --> 00:00:36.445 You may remember that Mark is previously a guest on The Chemical 00:00:36.445 --> 00:00:39.715 Show, and we will link to that episode so that you've got access to that. 00:00:40.055 --> 00:00:44.395 And we're going to be talking about the wonderful world of Canada and 00:00:44.395 --> 00:00:48.900 specifically Alberta and the industrial heartland, and just the, the Benefits 00:00:48.930 --> 00:00:50.780 of investing in that region and more. 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:52.890 So Mark, thanks for joining me today. 00:00:53.531 --> 00:00:55.791 Mark: Very nice to see you, Victoria, and thank you once 00:00:55.791 --> 00:00:57.491 again for having me on the show. 00:00:57.501 --> 00:00:57.851 Appreciate 00:00:57.920 --> 00:00:58.670 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:00:58.860 --> 00:01:03.720 So just provide If you would a brief overview to you and what 00:01:03.720 --> 00:01:07.190 your role is within the heartland and also to the heartland itself. 00:01:07.736 --> 00:01:08.816 Mark: Glad to do so, for sure. 00:01:08.816 --> 00:01:10.726 So, so thanks for the introduction. 00:01:10.746 --> 00:01:13.396 Yeah, so I'm Mark Plamondon and I'm the Executive Director here at Alberta's 00:01:13.406 --> 00:01:14.796 Industrial Heartland Association. 00:01:15.556 --> 00:01:19.426 And our association, we represent Municipalities, five municipalities, 00:01:19.436 --> 00:01:22.019 the city of Edmonton, city of Fort Saskatchewan, Strathcona, 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:24.476 Sturgeon, and Lamont counties. 00:01:24.486 --> 00:01:28.726 These all have land in an area called Alberta's Industrial Heartland, 00:01:29.056 --> 00:01:32.896 which sits in the northeast corner of the Edmonton region in Alberta. 00:01:33.201 --> 00:01:36.711 So just for those in the show, if you go to Alberta and then Edmonton 00:01:36.711 --> 00:01:40.961 in the northeast corner of Edmonton, there's a 582 square kilometer heavy 00:01:40.961 --> 00:01:45.331 industrial cluster called Alberta's Industrial Heartland, it is Canada's 00:01:45.351 --> 00:01:47.661 largest hydrocarbon processing region. 00:01:48.331 --> 00:01:52.104 will talk a little bit later about, the competitive advantages are and why 00:01:52.104 --> 00:01:53.824 companies are building projects here. 00:01:53.824 --> 00:01:57.884 But what we do, our association, we're funded by those municipalities and 00:01:57.894 --> 00:02:00.674 we are in sort of three main areas. 00:02:00.674 --> 00:02:02.901 We're focused on, promoting the region. 00:02:02.901 --> 00:02:04.611 So there's a huge marketing component. 00:02:04.611 --> 00:02:06.431 do a fair amount of international travel. 00:02:06.431 --> 00:02:09.841 We work with companies when they're assessing their next capital project. 00:02:09.841 --> 00:02:13.051 We want them assess the industrial heartland and see if their next 00:02:13.051 --> 00:02:15.821 major capital project makes sense in Alberta's industrial heartland. 00:02:16.610 --> 00:02:16.950 Victoria: Yeah 00:02:17.281 --> 00:02:20.986 Mark: we also have a significant effort in improving the region. 00:02:21.026 --> 00:02:24.336 So improving is either from a competitiveness standpoint, an 00:02:24.336 --> 00:02:27.196 infrastructure standpoint, a regulatory streamlining standpoint. 00:02:27.406 --> 00:02:30.396 This is all done through advocacy and partnerships with government and 00:02:30.406 --> 00:02:32.286 with other like minded stakeholders. 00:02:32.646 --> 00:02:37.156 And then we also have somebody focused on, you know, communications, social license, 00:02:37.156 --> 00:02:40.796 making sure that there's good dialogue between industry and community and that 00:02:40.796 --> 00:02:42.296 there's support for growth in the region. 00:02:42.901 --> 00:02:45.751 In a growing region, it's obviously very helpful if you have supportive 00:02:45.771 --> 00:02:47.941 community and strong social license, which we have here. 00:02:47.941 --> 00:02:51.931 So we spend a fair amount of time on that as well in partnership with the, 00:02:52.031 --> 00:02:53.461 with the companies that operate here. 00:02:53.900 --> 00:02:55.280 Victoria: Yeah, and I think that's so critical. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:58.710 I think the role that you guys play is so critical because of course investment 00:02:58.710 --> 00:03:03.660 doesn't just happen It happens with the support of the community, with the support 00:03:03.660 --> 00:03:08.270 of organizations such as yours, the municipality, and also other companies. 00:03:08.270 --> 00:03:11.530 I think it's, it's so critical the role that you play in this area. 00:03:11.871 --> 00:03:14.551 Mark: Yeah, there's so many things that need to line up for a company 00:03:14.551 --> 00:03:16.031 to reach final investment decision. 00:03:16.031 --> 00:03:20.711 And so helping roadblocks out of the way or streamline the process, or just 00:03:20.731 --> 00:03:24.071 getting the information that they need to make a decision or partnering them with 00:03:24.071 --> 00:03:28.111 the right people to get their project moving forward, all part of the process 00:03:28.111 --> 00:03:29.270 here, and that's what we're doing here. 00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:29.920 Victoria: Awesome. 00:03:29.950 --> 00:03:30.310 I love it. 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:34.720 So when we last spoke Dow had just announced its FID for 00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:38.180 its net zero cracker, ethylene cracker in Fort Saskatchewan. 00:03:38.470 --> 00:03:41.310 And to the extent that you're able to, how is that progressing? 00:03:41.674 --> 00:03:44.024 Mark: yes, it was probably, it was over a year ago. 00:03:44.074 --> 00:03:47.204 Maybe 12 months ago or so, 11, 12, 13 months ago, I think, 00:03:47.333 --> 00:03:47.683 Victoria: Yeah. 00:03:48.064 --> 00:03:51.154 Mark: that Dow reached final investment decision for this. 00:03:51.154 --> 00:03:54.754 They're the world's first net zero, ethylene manufacturing facility here 00:03:54.754 --> 00:03:58.384 in the industrial heartland, which was a, very exciting announcement for our 00:03:58.384 --> 00:03:59.784 region because it's such a large project. 00:03:59.814 --> 00:04:04.964 Not only is it such a large project, it is, of course, that first net zero 00:04:05.324 --> 00:04:08.824 ethylene manufacturing facility that really puts Industrial Heartland on 00:04:08.824 --> 00:04:11.924 the map, I think, because, of course, Dow is a global company and they can 00:04:11.924 --> 00:04:15.604 put capital in a lot of places and they have chosen to do this project 00:04:15.604 --> 00:04:17.004 here in Alberta's Industrial Heartland. 00:04:17.474 --> 00:04:18.234 I can't speak. 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:22.779 to their project, of course, but just in general, in the industrial 00:04:22.779 --> 00:04:24.609 heartland, there's been so much activity. 00:04:24.609 --> 00:04:27.209 And of course, the big project is the Dow project. 00:04:27.239 --> 00:04:31.679 We are seeing ramping up of of traffic through through the region. 00:04:31.929 --> 00:04:35.579 We are seeing workforces grow, to meet the growing construction 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:37.869 profile, primarily at the Dow site. 00:04:37.869 --> 00:04:40.909 We'd expect, you know, peak labor to be reaching here, but probably 00:04:40.909 --> 00:04:42.319 by the of this year, but we're 00:04:42.433 --> 00:04:42.723 Victoria: Wow, 00:04:43.254 --> 00:04:47.004 Mark: Growth their site and then in a number of other areas as well when 00:04:47.004 --> 00:04:51.284 it comes to construction activities, because since the Dow project reached 00:04:51.284 --> 00:04:54.694 FID, there's been a couple other final investment decisions, which 00:04:54.694 --> 00:04:55.904 are in the public domain as well. 00:04:55.954 --> 00:05:00.014 Shell reached final investment decision on their Polaris project, 00:05:00.014 --> 00:05:02.744 which is a carbon capture project at the Shell Scotford site. 00:05:03.123 --> 00:05:03.743 Victoria: that's excellent. 00:05:03.784 --> 00:05:07.484 Mark: about carbon sequestration capability in this region and why that's 00:05:07.484 --> 00:05:08.854 a competitive advantage for us here. 00:05:09.534 --> 00:05:14.544 also Shell, in partnership with ATCO and Power, announced their Atlas project, 00:05:14.584 --> 00:05:16.124 which is a sequestration project. 00:05:16.164 --> 00:05:18.954 So these both these projects were announced final investment 00:05:18.954 --> 00:05:20.054 decisions at the same time. 00:05:20.054 --> 00:05:22.824 So there's activities for that project as well. 00:05:23.321 --> 00:05:26.321 also seeing, um, there's current construction activities 00:05:26.321 --> 00:05:27.581 in fractionation facilities. 00:05:27.581 --> 00:05:29.561 There's fractionation expansions in the region. 00:05:30.061 --> 00:05:35.881 So there's, Lots of activity that we're, approaching a 50 billion, 45 to 50 billion 00:05:36.201 --> 00:05:40.261 of assets in the ground here now, and before the end of the decade will be 00:05:40.261 --> 00:05:46.801 well over 60 billion, in assets, um, 60 to 65 billion in assets, probably with 00:05:46.801 --> 00:05:50.261 growth and fractionation, of course, the net zero ethylene manufacturing. 00:05:50.521 --> 00:05:53.731 There's also, Lindy has announced that they're building a 2 billion hydrogen 00:05:53.731 --> 00:05:59.661 facility on the Dow site to meet the needs of the net zero path to zero project. 00:06:00.131 --> 00:06:01.331 So just, 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:02.330 Victoria: amazing. 00:06:02.330 --> 00:06:04.500 So it is. 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:07.820 I haven't been up to Canada in several years, but I can only 00:06:07.820 --> 00:06:12.790 imagine that it is really hustling and bustling in that region. 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:16.220 Not just because the invest those direct investments, but 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:17.680 of course, we also know that. 00:06:17.785 --> 00:06:20.875 I think ACC had published some data a while ago that says something 00:06:20.875 --> 00:06:24.785 like seven jobs are created for every job that's created inside 00:06:24.785 --> 00:06:26.225 the petrochemical industry, right? 00:06:26.285 --> 00:06:30.995 Whether it be grocery stores and schools and doctors and nurses and all of that. 00:06:30.995 --> 00:06:32.975 So that's a huge impact for your region. 00:06:33.371 --> 00:06:33.581 Mark: Yeah. 00:06:33.581 --> 00:06:34.971 There's both the direct and the indirect. 00:06:35.021 --> 00:06:36.281 There's, there's, there's all that stuff. 00:06:36.281 --> 00:06:40.611 There's the indirect impacts as well, but also the spend that the companies have 00:06:40.611 --> 00:06:42.341 amongst other companies, the supply chain. 00:06:42.841 --> 00:06:46.346 I mean, of course, there's the effects from workers staying in hotels and eating 00:06:46.355 --> 00:06:46.925 Victoria: Yeah. 00:06:46.946 --> 00:06:47.366 Mark: that stuff. 00:06:47.366 --> 00:06:51.896 But, but even the spend of companies in the industrial heartland, a real 00:06:51.896 --> 00:06:55.436 economic engine for the region, for the province and for the country. 00:06:55.755 --> 00:06:56.075 Victoria: Yeah. 00:06:56.105 --> 00:06:59.585 So what about the Heartland makes it such an attractive 00:06:59.585 --> 00:07:01.935 place for companies to invest? 00:07:02.145 --> 00:07:02.165 Yeah. 00:07:02.165 --> 00:07:02.660 Yeah. 00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:03.154 Yeah. 00:07:03.326 --> 00:07:05.386 Mark: you know, really optimistic about the future growth here 00:07:05.386 --> 00:07:06.496 for the industrial heartland. 00:07:06.566 --> 00:07:10.616 And there's, there's a few things have been competitive advantages. 00:07:10.887 --> 00:07:14.147 For decades, of course, and then there's really the growth in the, 00:07:14.157 --> 00:07:17.387 in the drive for low carbon products and industrial decarbonization 00:07:17.397 --> 00:07:18.447 that enhances that further. 00:07:18.447 --> 00:07:22.187 But, you know, just to start the main, the main economic driver in this part 00:07:22.187 --> 00:07:24.957 of the world is the low cost feedstocks. 00:07:24.957 --> 00:07:29.337 So low cost methane, propane, ethane, butane, particularly in the petrochemical 00:07:29.337 --> 00:07:34.057 space coming out of natural gas, natural gas liquids, you know, in North America, 00:07:34.057 --> 00:07:39.942 it's the lowest cost feedstocks in North America, your discount rate here versus 00:07:39.942 --> 00:07:42.272 Gulf Coast is typically between 30 to 40%. 00:07:42.732 --> 00:07:46.212 I mean, that, of course, ranges day to day, but on average, 00:07:46.352 --> 00:07:49.982 you're looking 30 to 40 percent discount for those feedstocks here. 00:07:49.992 --> 00:07:50.422 And when your 00:07:50.961 --> 00:07:51.771 Victoria: that's real money. 00:07:52.072 --> 00:07:54.802 Mark: When your largest operating cost is your feedstock, having a 00:07:54.822 --> 00:07:59.532 significant discount for your, your methane or your propane or whatever 00:07:59.532 --> 00:08:02.352 you're using as your feedstock, that's a tremendous competitive advantage. 00:08:02.352 --> 00:08:06.422 And as you know, those feedstock costs in North America are a lot cheaper 00:08:06.422 --> 00:08:07.562 than other parts of the world, too. 00:08:07.572 --> 00:08:10.752 There's, there's a few pockets, of course, that have still have really strong 00:08:10.752 --> 00:08:12.792 advantage, but in general, North American. 00:08:13.152 --> 00:08:17.862 Feedstock costs are low relative to other jurisdictions and here in 00:08:17.862 --> 00:08:20.402 Alberta where we have a discount compared to say the Gulf Coast. 00:08:20.412 --> 00:08:22.912 So there is a tremendous economic advantage and that's driven 00:08:22.912 --> 00:08:24.472 investment here for decades. 00:08:24.601 --> 00:08:28.151 What's really been, I'm going to say, interesting over the last five years, 00:08:28.161 --> 00:08:33.981 five to seven years is the interest in producing lower carbon products. 00:08:33.981 --> 00:08:34.031 Thanks. 00:08:34.516 --> 00:08:34.736 And 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:35.180 Victoria: Right. 00:08:35.326 --> 00:08:39.630 Mark: leads to companies looking at, carbon capture and sequestration is, 00:08:39.640 --> 00:08:44.510 is 1 of the technologies that large emitters would look to this jurisdiction. 00:08:44.855 --> 00:08:46.295 It's world leading when it comes to that. 00:08:46.375 --> 00:08:52.335 You know, we've got region has operating carbon sequestration assets in this 00:08:52.335 --> 00:08:54.235 region been operating since 2015. 00:08:54.605 --> 00:09:00.205 There's the Alberta carbon trunk line is a carbon trunk line that leads to 00:09:00.205 --> 00:09:04.350 additional sequestration capability, That was built with capacity of 14. 00:09:04.700 --> 00:09:07.790 6 million tons a year of CO2 carrying capability. 00:09:07.790 --> 00:09:07.950 It's 00:09:08.219 --> 00:09:08.589 Victoria: Yeah. 00:09:08.850 --> 00:09:10.140 Mark: you know, around 10%. 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:11.029 Victoria: Wow. 00:09:11.205 --> 00:09:16.095 Mark: got 90 percent and capability in that asset that companies can take 00:09:16.095 --> 00:09:18.465 advantage of that that that capital is 00:09:18.569 --> 00:09:19.109 Victoria: Yeah. 00:09:19.225 --> 00:09:23.005 Mark: the ground and companies can come in and work with the 00:09:23.005 --> 00:09:26.655 Alberta carbon trunk line to look to sequester, but that's just one 00:09:27.129 --> 00:09:30.519 Victoria: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's so significant because 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.629 of course we know that there's a lot of companies and and regions talking 00:09:34.629 --> 00:09:39.009 about building carbon capture and sequestration, and it's expensive, right? 00:09:39.009 --> 00:09:42.389 It is an expensive project to build. 00:09:42.389 --> 00:09:46.889 It is time consuming to build any of that, and so for that to be 00:09:46.889 --> 00:09:51.059 part of your core infrastructure is a real significant advantage. 00:09:51.395 --> 00:09:53.985 Mark: Well, it's infrastructure today that's working today. 00:09:53.985 --> 00:09:54.305 So it's 00:09:54.329 --> 00:09:54.959 Victoria: Yeah. 00:09:55.265 --> 00:09:56.575 Mark: It's it's operational today. 00:09:56.575 --> 00:10:00.155 So it's not like it's something that we're hoping to do, or that this region has 00:10:00.925 --> 00:10:02.515 that companies in this region have built. 00:10:02.970 --> 00:10:03.470 pipeline. 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:04.180 That's an example. 00:10:04.190 --> 00:10:06.710 But I also want to elaborate on that a little bit. 00:10:06.810 --> 00:10:08.030 The government of Alberta. 00:10:08.552 --> 00:10:11.642 to three years ago, um, they allocated poor space and they 00:10:11.642 --> 00:10:13.442 identified carbon hub operators. 00:10:13.482 --> 00:10:15.582 They awarded carbon hub operator status. 00:10:15.962 --> 00:10:20.252 So there's 6, 6 of them in the, in the, in the region that are now progressing 00:10:20.252 --> 00:10:24.442 projects for, or at least doing the studies that are necessary and trying 00:10:24.442 --> 00:10:28.322 to understand, if they'll advance their, their, their carbon hub operator 00:10:28.606 --> 00:10:28.786 Victoria: Yeah. 00:10:29.352 --> 00:10:32.292 Mark: Um, one of them is the Atlas project that I mentioned 00:10:32.542 --> 00:10:34.102 earlier, but there's, there's. 00:10:34.347 --> 00:10:36.957 You know, so for those five others that are under study, 00:10:37.107 --> 00:10:38.837 so that would give optionality. 00:10:38.847 --> 00:10:42.177 So you're building a large emitting petrochemical facility. 00:10:42.297 --> 00:10:46.257 You have optionality or you will have optionality as to where you can, 00:10:46.757 --> 00:10:48.227 how you can manage your emissions. 00:10:48.237 --> 00:10:52.487 And so carbon management is another key advantage here that I'm going 00:10:52.487 --> 00:10:55.097 to say that over the last 5 to 7 years is really maybe the. 00:10:55.897 --> 00:10:59.157 10 years on the outset but has really come to the forefront 00:10:59.157 --> 00:11:00.207 here as a competitive advantage. 00:11:00.207 --> 00:11:03.427 So you've got low cost feedstocks, carbon management capability. 00:11:03.757 --> 00:11:08.277 Then you have logistics here with respect to proximity or getting the markets. 00:11:08.417 --> 00:11:12.427 So you know, two class one railways, service the area, moving products 00:11:12.427 --> 00:11:14.987 out to the West Coast or the East Coast or down to the Gulf Coast, 00:11:15.357 --> 00:11:18.357 good accessibility into the United States markets with the rail networks. 00:11:18.697 --> 00:11:22.087 And then, of course, you know, we've got 582 square kilometers of flat 00:11:22.097 --> 00:11:23.737 pre zone, heavy industrial land, 00:11:24.106 --> 00:11:24.576 Victoria: yeah, 00:11:24.737 --> 00:11:25.627 Mark: workforce here. 00:11:25.717 --> 00:11:27.407 You come and look at the industrial cluster here. 00:11:27.407 --> 00:11:29.837 We encourage companies to come and have a look here. 00:11:30.156 --> 00:11:30.656 Victoria: yeah. 00:11:30.797 --> 00:11:34.947 Mark: the cluster and you'll realize that the skilled workforce that's here 00:11:34.947 --> 00:11:37.267 to operate and build these facilities. 00:11:37.317 --> 00:11:40.817 It's a bonafide cluster as skilled workforce to do what needs to be done. 00:11:40.817 --> 00:11:43.117 And I'm really excited and optimistic about the future 00:11:43.186 --> 00:11:44.106 Victoria: I think that's exciting. 00:11:44.116 --> 00:11:46.076 And I think a few points of that are so critical. 00:11:46.086 --> 00:11:50.256 So number one, I think just the natural gas backbone from a feedstock perspective 00:11:50.549 --> 00:11:56.039 on a relative basis, it's already a relatively clean feedstock as compared 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:01.099 to heavy oils as a pairs compared to coal, which, uh, you know, again, is 00:12:01.149 --> 00:12:03.879 being utilized as a feedstock for some chemical products elsewhere. 00:12:04.149 --> 00:12:08.049 So I think just starting with that and then layering in the carbon capture, 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:12.189 layering in the infrastructure and, in the workforce becomes compelling. 00:12:12.189 --> 00:12:14.579 Cause you know, as you know, and we've talked about this before, I've 00:12:14.929 --> 00:12:19.656 spent some time developing projects, back in my corporate days and, you 00:12:19.656 --> 00:12:21.003 know, location, location, location. 00:12:22.133 --> 00:12:27.113 Close to the customer, close to the feed stocks and close to your transportation 00:12:27.113 --> 00:12:32.063 is, is critical, but also being in a friendly, and well skilled business 00:12:32.063 --> 00:12:33.763 environment is really critical. 00:12:34.105 --> 00:12:36.605 Mark: I just want to add one more thing to Victoria's is, you know, we've 00:12:36.605 --> 00:12:38.935 done some work over the last year. 00:12:39.255 --> 00:12:42.705 We will be rolling that out probably here in the first quarters. 00:12:43.005 --> 00:12:46.375 We've done some work benchmarking our industrial cluster here versus 00:12:46.415 --> 00:12:50.095 other some other global industrial clusters from a because you 00:12:50.095 --> 00:12:51.855 mentioned, you know, carbon intensity. 00:12:51.855 --> 00:12:56.060 And so we're doing that from a nESG lens basically. 00:12:56.110 --> 00:12:59.450 And so that, you know, the carbon intensity of your feedstocks, 00:12:59.460 --> 00:13:03.140 your grid, the capability or the diversity of your workforce and 00:13:03.380 --> 00:13:06.000 skill set and proximity of workforce. 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:08.710 Like there's a whole bunch of measures between the environment and social 00:13:08.710 --> 00:13:11.800 and governance range that we've used to benchmark the industrial 00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:13.230 heartland versus other jurisdictions. 00:13:13.420 --> 00:13:17.690 And, you know, really for a functioning industrial cluster, it's 00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:18.950 world leading from that standpoint. 00:13:18.950 --> 00:13:22.085 So for companies globally where that matters, this will 00:13:22.085 --> 00:13:23.165 be a jurisdiction for them. 00:13:23.674 --> 00:13:24.941 Victoria: We're in a changing world, right? 00:13:24.951 --> 00:13:25.681 In a lot of ways. 00:13:25.681 --> 00:13:29.191 When I think about just the global economics and the geopolitical 00:13:29.191 --> 00:13:33.041 climate, the U S has just inaugurated a new president. 00:13:33.041 --> 00:13:35.541 Canada's poised for another federal election. 00:13:36.021 --> 00:13:37.611 There's just a lot going on. 00:13:37.881 --> 00:13:41.651 How does this influence investment in Alberta? 00:13:41.661 --> 00:13:46.111 How, how are you managing and navigating some of those changes? 00:13:46.362 --> 00:13:46.512 Mark: Yeah. 00:13:46.512 --> 00:13:47.262 So it's a good question. 00:13:47.262 --> 00:13:50.542 I mean, You'll hear often and when you're talking with business 00:13:50.542 --> 00:13:54.562 leaders and others, like, you know, uncertainty is, is always a headwind for 00:13:54.562 --> 00:13:56.202 investment and you can understand why. 00:13:56.242 --> 00:13:59.932 I mean, when you're investing other people's money and lots of it, hundreds 00:13:59.932 --> 00:14:03.552 of millions or billions of dollars, you know, boards of directors and 00:14:03.552 --> 00:14:07.642 executives, or there'll be, there'll be a tendency to wait and see what the, if 00:14:07.642 --> 00:14:10.662 the uncertainty is going to become more certain before you can make a decision. 00:14:10.662 --> 00:14:10.782 And 00:14:10.906 --> 00:14:11.356 Victoria: Yeah. 00:14:11.492 --> 00:14:12.852 Mark: typically uncertainty. 00:14:13.162 --> 00:14:16.792 Leads to bit of a pause in capital investment. 00:14:16.792 --> 00:14:19.812 And so there's not much we can do about the uncertainty, but what 00:14:19.812 --> 00:14:22.742 we can do is a few pillars, a few things that we, that we focus on. 00:14:22.742 --> 00:14:25.952 So of course we have an advocacy component that we work with like 00:14:25.952 --> 00:14:29.812 minus stakeholders on where we're advocating for specific policies. 00:14:30.102 --> 00:14:32.762 Over the years, we've been fortunate that there's been good traction in 00:14:32.812 --> 00:14:35.892 a lot of things that have improved competitiveness and improved the 00:14:35.892 --> 00:14:37.772 regulatory streamlining here in Alberta. 00:14:38.310 --> 00:14:42.450 So, you know, we put in our best efforts to work with like minded partners and 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:47.256 governments to try to, improve the region from a number of fronts, that 00:14:47.266 --> 00:14:51.736 hopefully improves the certainty for, for companies that are looking to invest. 00:14:51.736 --> 00:14:54.526 So that's, so that's, um, one. 00:14:54.566 --> 00:14:58.826 We also, Help companies navigate the system here, the regulatory framework, or 00:14:58.965 --> 00:14:59.515 Victoria: Hmm. 00:14:59.696 --> 00:15:01.596 Mark: right people in the government to navigate so that they can 00:15:01.596 --> 00:15:03.886 understand the complexities of the system a little bit better. 00:15:04.366 --> 00:15:07.326 The actual uncertainty itself, though, it's at very top 00:15:07.326 --> 00:15:08.476 levels of governments, that's. 00:15:09.191 --> 00:15:10.451 You know, it'll be what it'll be. 00:15:10.591 --> 00:15:10.801 And I 00:15:10.975 --> 00:15:11.305 Victoria: Yeah. 00:15:11.341 --> 00:15:12.131 Mark: will figure it out. 00:15:12.161 --> 00:15:14.691 It's a bit of a wait and see, I think, at the moment, and we'll figure out 00:15:14.695 --> 00:15:14.975 Victoria: Hmm. 00:15:15.141 --> 00:15:17.451 Mark: the world's going to look like from a policy standpoint and 00:15:17.451 --> 00:15:18.861 make the appropriate decisions. 00:15:19.505 --> 00:15:20.315 Victoria: Yeah, makes sense. 00:15:20.515 --> 00:15:24.565 And I know we've also seen, a few, uh, supply chain challenges recently. 00:15:24.565 --> 00:15:25.945 In fact, the, the U. 00:15:25.945 --> 00:15:26.215 S., 00:15:26.645 --> 00:15:31.635 somehow all of our ports have decided that this was the year to strike. 00:15:31.655 --> 00:15:32.525 We saw it in Canada. 00:15:32.555 --> 00:15:33.225 We saw it in the U. 00:15:33.225 --> 00:15:33.555 S. 00:15:33.915 --> 00:15:35.965 How do you see that playing out going forward? 00:15:35.965 --> 00:15:40.205 And did, did you have any role in, uh, or were you also watching on 00:15:40.205 --> 00:15:41.935 the sidelines like the rest of us? 00:15:42.501 --> 00:15:47.641 Mark: Well, again, the message around, you know, stable, certain logistic 00:15:47.641 --> 00:15:49.561 supply chains is so important for 00:15:49.785 --> 00:15:50.355 Victoria: Yeah. 00:15:50.521 --> 00:15:50.651 Mark: in 00:15:50.945 --> 00:15:51.355 Victoria: Yeah. 00:15:51.726 --> 00:15:53.016 Mark: Being landlocked. 00:15:53.016 --> 00:15:56.246 It's so important for us to be able to move products and not not only just being 00:15:56.246 --> 00:16:00.816 landlocked, but also the majority of the products in this region are exported. 00:16:00.816 --> 00:16:02.526 So we need access to export markets. 00:16:02.526 --> 00:16:02.926 And so, 00:16:03.145 --> 00:16:03.515 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:04.076 --> 00:16:08.176 Mark: that uncertainty again is is significant headwind for investment, 00:16:08.176 --> 00:16:09.636 especially from an international investor. 00:16:09.636 --> 00:16:13.331 So just being a voice there, of course, is what the best that we can do and 00:16:13.331 --> 00:16:16.827 trying to really raise awareness that look from an international standpoint, 00:16:17.207 --> 00:16:22.417 any hiccup or interruption to logistics, supply chains, logistics to getting 00:16:22.417 --> 00:16:26.097 products to international markets that would cause international investors in 00:16:26.097 --> 00:16:29.567 their overall assessment, that would probably be a strike against this 00:16:29.651 --> 00:16:30.201 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:30.431 --> 00:16:32.701 But they're also, but it's also temporary, right? 00:16:32.701 --> 00:16:34.181 Those things have gotten resolved. 00:16:34.191 --> 00:16:36.541 Those are temporary, I guess blips in the system. 00:16:36.791 --> 00:16:40.661 And in fact, I spoke with Kevin Yttre, who's a investment banker a 00:16:40.731 --> 00:16:42.731 few weeks ago on the chemical show. 00:16:43.111 --> 00:16:46.301 And he really talked about the U S being a very attractive market for 00:16:46.301 --> 00:16:51.171 Asian investors, because they're looking for secure and growing markets. 00:16:51.761 --> 00:16:54.221 I would assume the same is true in Canada. 00:16:54.576 --> 00:16:57.156 Are you seeing the same interest in international investment? 00:16:57.587 --> 00:16:59.517 Mark: So for our region, absolutely. 00:16:59.627 --> 00:17:03.371 There's a lot of interest from Asian companies primarily looking 00:17:03.371 --> 00:17:07.101 to invest in projects that would export the products to their markets. 00:17:07.470 --> 00:17:08.040 Victoria: Hmm. 00:17:08.191 --> 00:17:10.611 Mark: I mean, there are some companies that are looking, they want to access 00:17:10.611 --> 00:17:13.871 North American markets and build a facility here get a foothold into 00:17:13.871 --> 00:17:16.151 the North American markets that there's some interest there too. 00:17:16.151 --> 00:17:20.081 But I'd say a lot of our interest from Asian customers or Asian clients, 00:17:20.411 --> 00:17:22.811 companies that are looking to build projects or look at petrochemical 00:17:22.811 --> 00:17:26.141 projects, I'd say the largest interest is building a facility in the 00:17:26.141 --> 00:17:27.921 industrial heartland and then accessing. 00:17:28.040 --> 00:17:29.215 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:29.215 --> 00:17:30.390 Yeah. 00:17:30.491 --> 00:17:30.771 Mark: here. 00:17:31.141 --> 00:17:35.475 Now, proximity and the connectivity from here is really attractive more so than 00:17:35.475 --> 00:17:37.155 I'd say from the Gulf Coast in the U. 00:17:37.155 --> 00:17:37.315 S. 00:17:37.315 --> 00:17:41.315 Because getting our product to the West Coast Port of Prince Rupert, for example, 00:17:41.555 --> 00:17:45.915 that shipping time from the Port of Prince Rupert into Let's say Japan, for example, 00:17:46.095 --> 00:17:49.105 that shipping time is about half than if you came out of the Gulf Coast, had 00:17:49.124 --> 00:17:49.644 Victoria: No kidding. 00:17:49.785 --> 00:17:50.435 Mark: the canal and then over. 00:17:50.435 --> 00:17:50.705 So 00:17:51.084 --> 00:17:51.454 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:51.695 --> 00:17:54.225 Mark: we've got really good proximity to Asian markets from 00:17:54.225 --> 00:17:55.435 West Coast, British Columbia, 00:17:55.804 --> 00:17:56.164 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:56.205 --> 00:17:59.435 Mark: Coast of Canada, and we've got good rail connectivity to the West Coast. 00:17:59.435 --> 00:18:04.455 So we do have a lot of companies, a lot of interest in looking at 00:18:04.455 --> 00:18:08.205 building facilities in the industrial heartland, moving products to meet 00:18:08.225 --> 00:18:09.595 the growing needs in Asian markets. 00:18:10.134 --> 00:18:10.374 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:10.414 --> 00:18:10.844 Makes sense. 00:18:10.844 --> 00:18:14.804 And again, as we talked about with the infrastructure, feedstock costs, skilled 00:18:14.804 --> 00:18:20.644 workforce, it becomes really cost effective as well to build and export. 00:18:20.985 --> 00:18:22.515 Mark: Well, definitely. 00:18:22.535 --> 00:18:22.955 I mean, 00:18:23.189 --> 00:18:23.529 Victoria: Yeah, 00:18:23.575 --> 00:18:25.781 Mark: know, clustering has advantages. 00:18:26.241 --> 00:18:27.711 There's a skill set here. 00:18:27.711 --> 00:18:30.081 Some outputs from one become inputs to another. 00:18:30.241 --> 00:18:32.971 So when you have a bona fide cluster like you have in the industrial heartland 00:18:32.971 --> 00:18:36.811 and you have the connectivity like we have here, think that's a, gives a 00:18:36.811 --> 00:18:40.351 lot of confidence to foreign investors when they're looking to invest and see, 00:18:40.351 --> 00:18:43.881 okay, this is a function of cluster world class companies operate here. 00:18:44.445 --> 00:18:44.985 Victoria: yeah, 00:18:45.061 --> 00:18:46.081 Mark: here that we need to understand. 00:18:46.435 --> 00:18:49.435 Victoria: So I know that you are gearing up for the Canadian 00:18:49.435 --> 00:18:51.475 Petrochemical Summit in June. 00:18:51.525 --> 00:18:54.375 And this is, I guess the second time you guys have hosted this event, and 00:18:54.375 --> 00:18:58.995 it's really, an opportunity to showcase the heartland, and what it can do. 00:18:59.015 --> 00:19:01.885 So can you tell us just a little bit more about that event? 00:19:02.048 --> 00:19:02.688 Mark: Absolutely. 00:19:02.688 --> 00:19:04.435 So I believe it's their third time, to be 00:19:04.809 --> 00:19:06.269 Victoria: Okay, third, yeah. 00:19:06.825 --> 00:19:08.565 Mark: may even be fourth, but I, I have to 00:19:08.979 --> 00:19:10.339 Victoria: Alright, so I haven't been counting. 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:11.549 That's okay, we'll fix it. 00:19:11.549 --> 00:19:13.058 Ha ha ha. 00:19:13.205 --> 00:19:17.105 Mark: it's a, it's a very focused Canadian petrochemical summit, but we're really, 00:19:17.225 --> 00:19:23.255 it's really, small group intended to really have the decision makers and key 00:19:23.255 --> 00:19:25.135 participants in the petrochemical sector. 00:19:25.495 --> 00:19:29.165 So it's so that it'll be high value for them to be in such an 00:19:29.165 --> 00:19:32.865 intimate setting, having discussions around the petrochemical industry 00:19:32.905 --> 00:19:37.605 issues of the day, potential opportunities to work together, etc. 00:19:37.875 --> 00:19:40.595 So, this, this year is June 17th to 19th. 00:19:41.075 --> 00:19:42.905 It'll be in Lake Louise. 00:19:42.925 --> 00:19:44.485 It's the first time we're doing it out at Lake 00:19:44.629 --> 00:19:45.269 Victoria: Nice. 00:19:45.335 --> 00:19:45.875 Mark: in the mountains. 00:19:45.885 --> 00:19:47.705 So think about the setting, right? 00:19:47.705 --> 00:19:47.895 You've 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:48.689 Victoria: Yeah. 00:19:48.795 --> 00:19:53.515 Mark: a fairly, small focus group in the mountains. 00:19:53.655 --> 00:19:55.045 You're there for 2 to 3 days. 00:19:55.315 --> 00:19:56.515 You're not going anywhere from there. 00:19:56.515 --> 00:19:58.705 You're, you're doing some wonderful things out in the mountains. 00:19:58.715 --> 00:19:59.095 You're either. 00:19:59.405 --> 00:20:02.005 You're enjoying maybe some golf or hiking, etc. 00:20:02.025 --> 00:20:03.875 before the conference happens. 00:20:03.875 --> 00:20:06.925 But, but it's not like at the end of the afternoon, you're 00:20:06.925 --> 00:20:08.195 going for dinner somewhere else. 00:20:08.225 --> 00:20:10.305 No, you're all, you're there at Lake Louise. 00:20:10.625 --> 00:20:11.625 It's very focused. 00:20:11.635 --> 00:20:15.531 It's a great networking opportunity, really focused on having decision 00:20:15.531 --> 00:20:17.841 makers and participants in the petrochemical sector there. 00:20:17.841 --> 00:20:19.781 So that's what this event is all about. 00:20:19.781 --> 00:20:22.811 And it's in Lake Louise in the middle of June, June 17th and 19th. 00:20:23.235 --> 00:20:23.775 Victoria: I like that. 00:20:23.965 --> 00:20:26.595 Well, and it's, and it's, you know, I've, I've got my own conference 00:20:26.595 --> 00:20:29.965 that I run in the fall, the chemical summit, but, different focus. 00:20:29.965 --> 00:20:35.345 But yet I also recognize the uniqueness of having a small event focused just on 00:20:35.345 --> 00:20:40.075 leaders and building those relationships, having the right conversations is so 00:20:40.075 --> 00:20:44.065 critical because it doesn't necessarily happen a lot in our industry. 00:20:44.085 --> 00:20:45.945 A lot of the events are big. 00:20:46.185 --> 00:20:50.675 Dine and dash meet and greets where you're running all day long. 00:20:50.685 --> 00:20:54.595 And so having the opportunity to spend time together and connect and 00:20:54.595 --> 00:20:56.775 reflect and grow is really critical. 00:20:57.316 --> 00:20:59.656 Mark: Yeah, both styles have a role for sure. 00:20:59.656 --> 00:21:00.086 We just 00:21:00.095 --> 00:21:00.585 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:00.726 --> 00:21:04.776 Mark: that this focused event specifically on petrochemicals, we 00:21:04.776 --> 00:21:09.003 think that's adding value in the end, like we're not in the business like 00:21:09.112 --> 00:21:09.742 Victoria: No, 00:21:10.083 --> 00:21:10.333 Mark: We're in 00:21:10.392 --> 00:21:10.642 Victoria: no. 00:21:11.253 --> 00:21:13.560 Mark: of facilitating development and 00:21:13.739 --> 00:21:14.069 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:14.270 --> 00:21:15.220 Mark: advance projects. 00:21:15.639 --> 00:21:16.009 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:16.340 --> 00:21:18.540 Mark: we just want to the end result is that right? 00:21:18.540 --> 00:21:23.210 We want companies to be able to connect and advanced conversations and ideas. 00:21:23.210 --> 00:21:25.840 And so having a focus conference, we think helps with 00:21:25.939 --> 00:21:29.199 Victoria: And I, and I know that the theme this year is navigating global markets. 00:21:29.874 --> 00:21:33.064 What can you tell us about the theme and some of the speak speakers or 00:21:33.064 --> 00:21:34.854 topics that, people will expect? 00:21:35.325 --> 00:21:38.855 Mark: know, navigating global markets really just highlights that, you know, the 00:21:38.855 --> 00:21:43.335 petrochemical sector here, it is a global conversation, particularly what we just 00:21:43.345 --> 00:21:44.805 talked about with some of the geopolitics. 00:21:44.805 --> 00:21:48.135 So, you know, the types of themes that we talk about and speakers 00:21:48.135 --> 00:21:48.955 we get in, we'll get experts. 00:21:48.955 --> 00:21:52.775 We usually start off with, you know, global market trends in the petrochemical 00:21:52.775 --> 00:21:56.795 sector and then drill down into, you know, specific feedstock outlooks, 00:21:56.995 --> 00:21:58.725 in Western Canada and North America. 00:21:59.085 --> 00:22:01.525 And then there's conversations around supply chain. 00:22:01.525 --> 00:22:02.195 And we talked about. 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:04.670 some supply chain challenges. 00:22:04.940 --> 00:22:09.010 It's always useful to have a conversation on on geopolitics and world politics and 00:22:09.020 --> 00:22:11.010 get experts in on that and that as well. 00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:12.940 I think that's interesting for some of the 00:22:13.244 --> 00:22:13.984 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:22:14.090 --> 00:22:15.925 Mark: So, we found it. 00:22:16.015 --> 00:22:17.165 We've had really good feedback. 00:22:17.175 --> 00:22:18.405 It's a very 00:22:18.459 --> 00:22:18.789 Victoria: Cool. 00:22:18.795 --> 00:22:19.545 Mark: couple of days. 00:22:19.575 --> 00:22:19.975 And, 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:20.399 Victoria: Good. 00:22:20.655 --> 00:22:21.775 Mark: so, you know, 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:22.329 Victoria: I love it. 00:22:23.395 --> 00:22:27.115 Mark: com or Canadian cdn, cdn petrochemicalsummit. 00:22:27.145 --> 00:22:28.325 com to get more information. 00:22:28.659 --> 00:22:28.989 Victoria: Okay. 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.399 Awesome. 00:22:29.399 --> 00:22:32.889 We'll include a link so that people can find it as well. 00:22:33.162 --> 00:22:37.882 So final question for you, Mark, you have worked with a lot of global leaders, 00:22:37.922 --> 00:22:42.882 both in the public sector, in the private sector, What characteristics 00:22:42.912 --> 00:22:44.852 really stand out about a great leader? 00:22:44.852 --> 00:22:48.132 Mark: I mean, business schools look at leadership all the time and there's 00:22:48.132 --> 00:22:52.342 courses on leadership and, know, at least in my experience, and first of all, let's 00:22:52.342 --> 00:22:53.722 talk from personal experience and then 00:22:53.786 --> 00:22:54.196 Victoria: Yeah. 00:22:54.332 --> 00:22:54.972 Mark: from what I've seen. 00:22:54.972 --> 00:22:57.802 That leadership position, of course, the first and foremost thing is you 00:22:57.802 --> 00:23:01.027 need to actually, Take a leadership position because in the absence 00:23:01.027 --> 00:23:04.117 of taking a leadership position, there's a void and then people fill 00:23:04.117 --> 00:23:05.517 that void with their own narratives. 00:23:05.937 --> 00:23:06.287 So, 00:23:06.406 --> 00:23:07.026 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:07.127 --> 00:23:09.187 Mark: before you say whether they're a great leader, just to 00:23:09.197 --> 00:23:12.017 be a leader, it sounds trivial and maybe a little bit trite. 00:23:12.017 --> 00:23:16.302 But, that leadership position where you're out front saying this is, How I think we 00:23:16.302 --> 00:23:20.342 need to go and get people to rally behind you taking that leadership positions. 00:23:20.352 --> 00:23:23.712 First and foremost, whether you're a great leader or not, the differences 00:23:23.712 --> 00:23:25.522 between what that leadership position is. 00:23:25.522 --> 00:23:29.106 Are you doing it with integrity and conviction and driving that forward? 00:23:29.106 --> 00:23:33.366 So, I guess from what I've seen, when I look at that I've worked for, 00:23:33.366 --> 00:23:34.706 who I think have been great leaders 00:23:34.770 --> 00:23:35.210 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:35.316 --> 00:23:38.846 Mark: have been great leaders is, is you're driving that leadership position, 00:23:38.846 --> 00:23:42.329 but you're doing so with integrity and conviction you're convincing 00:23:42.329 --> 00:23:46.009 people that you're coming from the right place and then you, you have 00:23:46.033 --> 00:23:46.333 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:46.739 --> 00:23:48.389 Mark: to say that this is, this is the way forward. 00:23:48.389 --> 00:23:51.469 And those two things, coupled with that, just stepping out 00:23:51.469 --> 00:23:52.529 front and being the leaders. 00:23:53.147 --> 00:23:57.247 I know it's, it's a bit of a circular conversation because in order to be a 00:23:57.247 --> 00:24:00.547 leader, you got to take a leadership position, of course, but you've seen 00:24:00.547 --> 00:24:05.377 in politics in, in, in some cases where you have a void, like if, if you 00:24:05.377 --> 00:24:09.507 don't have your, your leader coming forward and saying this, then there's 00:24:09.517 --> 00:24:11.097 a void and others and others fill it, 00:24:11.306 --> 00:24:11.606 Victoria: Yeah. 00:24:11.646 --> 00:24:15.806 I mean, this whole thing around owning your space, you got to own your space. 00:24:16.207 --> 00:24:16.917 Mark: business as well. 00:24:16.917 --> 00:24:17.167 You're going to 00:24:17.326 --> 00:24:17.786 Victoria: Yeah. 00:24:18.446 --> 00:24:21.466 Mark: my view, anyway, your leader needs to be Communicating up front that this 00:24:21.466 --> 00:24:25.346 is the position you've got integrity and conviction and then your workers and 00:24:25.346 --> 00:24:27.096 your company and everyone will see that. 00:24:27.326 --> 00:24:31.056 And I'm going to follow this because it's coming from the right place. 00:24:31.066 --> 00:24:34.426 It's got conviction and that's at least off the top of my head. 00:24:34.426 --> 00:24:34.986 What I've seen. 00:24:34.986 --> 00:24:38.516 I know that when I was initially put into in the leadership roles. 00:24:38.775 --> 00:24:39.265 Victoria: Yeah. 00:24:39.291 --> 00:24:41.731 Mark: I remember that being sort of the initial stress was something's 00:24:41.731 --> 00:24:46.158 happened and you need to be taking a leadership position up front and, and 00:24:46.158 --> 00:24:47.868 that's, that's the step you need to take. 00:24:47.918 --> 00:24:51.068 That was the first real big learning for me when I was in my, put in 00:24:51.068 --> 00:24:52.128 my first leadership position. 00:24:52.138 --> 00:24:52.578 It's like, wait a second. 00:24:52.578 --> 00:24:52.838 Okay. 00:24:52.838 --> 00:24:53.458 This is on me. 00:24:53.458 --> 00:24:54.868 This isn't, I can't wait for someone else. 00:24:54.918 --> 00:24:56.778 I've got to be out front taking that position. 00:24:57.278 --> 00:24:59.828 And, and sure you're in conversation with the people that you work 00:24:59.828 --> 00:25:02.658 with, but you've got to be the one up front taking that position 00:25:02.688 --> 00:25:04.028 and with integrity and conviction. 00:25:04.888 --> 00:25:05.628 off the top of my head. 00:25:05.628 --> 00:25:06.058 Victoria. 00:25:06.058 --> 00:25:06.068 I 00:25:06.132 --> 00:25:06.592 Victoria: That's good. 00:25:06.592 --> 00:25:07.592 I really love that though. 00:25:07.592 --> 00:25:09.642 And I think it, I think it's great. 00:25:09.652 --> 00:25:12.952 And I think first of all, the integrity and conviction are really critical. 00:25:13.182 --> 00:25:17.392 But to your point that making that switch into a leadership position, I 00:25:17.392 --> 00:25:21.615 used to sometimes tell people, I'm like, it's now your turn to define the work. 00:25:22.025 --> 00:25:25.595 And the path like we go along in our careers so long as being 00:25:25.615 --> 00:25:27.485 worker bees, if you will, right? 00:25:27.495 --> 00:25:30.375 Like letting somebody else lead and set direction. 00:25:30.745 --> 00:25:35.425 And that first flip into a leadership role when it's like, oh no, I'm 00:25:35.435 --> 00:25:38.115 setting the direction is so critical. 00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:40.695 People are people expected of you. 00:25:41.155 --> 00:25:42.915 And that's also how you define yourself. 00:25:43.381 --> 00:25:46.491 Mark: so it's really interesting because until you put in that position, or 00:25:46.491 --> 00:25:49.561 at least for me, until I was put in that position, you don't really think 00:25:49.561 --> 00:25:50.881 of it that way until you're in it. 00:25:50.891 --> 00:25:51.201 So the 00:25:51.325 --> 00:25:51.835 Victoria: Yeah, 00:25:51.941 --> 00:25:54.311 Mark: me in my career, you know, I sort of had a pretty 00:25:54.441 --> 00:25:56.151 big jump into a leadership role 00:25:56.295 --> 00:25:56.915 Victoria: yeah, 00:25:57.871 --> 00:26:01.321 Mark: So I'm now leading a foreign operation. 00:26:01.321 --> 00:26:03.831 You know, and everyone's looking to you. 00:26:04.235 --> 00:26:04.825 Victoria: yeah, 00:26:05.076 --> 00:26:07.386 Mark: need to be up front taking that position. 00:26:07.666 --> 00:26:10.436 I remember that specifically, it was like, okay, I'm, I'm, everyone's 00:26:10.436 --> 00:26:12.226 looking to me to set direction and, and 00:26:12.305 --> 00:26:12.795 Victoria: yeah. 00:26:12.846 --> 00:26:13.346 Mark: up and do it. 00:26:13.366 --> 00:26:16.526 And so great leaders for me of you're not leaving a void. 00:26:16.526 --> 00:26:19.646 You're taking a leadership position with, with, again, with 00:26:19.646 --> 00:26:20.896 integrity and conviction to try 00:26:21.020 --> 00:26:21.490 Victoria: I love it. 00:26:21.620 --> 00:26:24.250 I think it makes a lot of sense and I know that's what you do 00:26:24.760 --> 00:26:26.240 every day at the Heartland. 00:26:26.756 --> 00:26:29.186 Mark: Well, hopefully my team thinks so. 00:26:30.470 --> 00:26:31.350 Victoria: I'm sure they do. 00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:32.690 I'll ask them afterwards. 00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:33.180 How's that? 00:26:34.990 --> 00:26:37.650 Well, Mark, this has been a great conversation. 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.130 Thank you so much for joining me on the chemical show. 00:26:40.851 --> 00:26:42.991 Mark: Victoria, thanks for having me again, and I really 00:26:42.991 --> 00:26:43.881 appreciate the conversation. 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.890 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:26:44.890 --> 00:26:46.290 And thank you everybody for listening. 00:26:46.290 --> 00:26:49.610 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will talk again soon. 00:26:50.908 --> 00:26:53.068 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:26:53.408 --> 00:26:57.868 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:26:58.138 --> 00:27:01.698 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:27:02.528 --> 00:27:05.418 For more insights, visit TheChemicalShow. 00:27:05.428 --> 00:27:07.948 com and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:27:08.598 --> 00:27:12.548 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:27:12.548 --> 00:27:14.498 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:27:14.908 --> 00:27:18.138 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:27:18.398 --> 00:27:20.188 shaping the future of the industry. 00:27:20.558 --> 00:27:21.268 We'll see you soon.