Good morning, Grid Connections listeners.
On the Grid Connections podcast, we explored the cutting edge of electric transportation, clean energy, and how our electrical grid is tying all of it together.
I'm your host, Chase.
And today we have a returning guest who's been at the forefront of simplifying the EV experience, Matt Teske, the founder of Chargeway.
In this episode, we dive deep into how Chargeway is revolutionizing EV charging with its user-friendly system designed to make EV charging as simple as filling up with gas.
If not simpler.
Matt shares incredible insights on how legacy automakers are struggling to adapt to the world of electrification, the challenges of dealership EV sales, and how a ChargerWay's
innovative solutions are making a real difference, both for drivers and dealers.
We also get into the future of vehicle-to-grid technology, home energy storage, and how ChargerWay is playing a crucial role in helping more people confidently make the switch to
electric vehicles.
This is an episode packed with valuable information for EV owners, potential buyers, and really anyone interested in the future of clean energy.
Before we get started though, I'd like to ask a favor.
If you enjoy today's conversation with Matt Teske, share this episode with at least one other person you think would appreciate it as well.
And don't forget to leave us a pause review on your favorite podcast platform.
Your reviews help more listeners discover the show and stay connected with the latest in electric mobility.
And with that.
Enjoy.
Can you just give us a quick little background on you and the great technology you guys offer?
Definitely.
Well, Chase, great to see you again.
Thanks for the invite.
Yeah, Chargeway, again, Matt Teske, founder of Chargeway.
And Chargeway is a software platform, and we focus on our mobile app for EV drivers to simplify the EV charging experience.
We take all of the engineering data and all of the car side, charging side, and we translate that into simple colors for plug types and simple numbers for power levels so
that you can choose whatever car you want.
And then on the map, you see what aligns with your car based on plug type and plug color.
and the power levels of each station so you know what your wait time will be based on all the engineering by simply looking at a power level on the map.
So at a quick glance, you can get a sense for, I can fill up in maybe 40 minutes at a level six, or maybe an hour and a half at a level five, or maybe two hours at a level
four.
And that way, you can navigate the landscape more easily with your vehicle you've selected.
And it works all throughout North America.
iOS and Android has a built-in trip planner that's automated and suggestion stops for you.
You can filter it however you want to do it.
We've got adapters included.
So all the new adapters coming out for people that can go to different stations, such as Superchargers, we're now GM, Rivian, and Ford.
It's all built in.
So we're just trying to make electric fuel easy for people.
Yeah, no.
I think that's, I mean, that's what you're, you've been talking about for so long really is that focus on electric fuel and not thinking it was like, well, this is 150 kilowatt DC
fast charger versus the seven kilowatt level two.
And all of this kind of just technical fog, if you will, that makes the experience so much more difficult for people trying to either new to electric vehicles or just even curious
that without kind of what you guys are offering and really simplifying the
That jump to electrification for a new buyer really can be kind of daunting if not Just say you know what?
I'm not gonna do it all together and so I think that's really what's been great about your technology and just to see how it's evolved too and there's Obviously some new kind of
things we're gonna talk about today with what you guys are offering But yeah, no, I think I was even talked to someone a couple days ago about this with even all the electric
automators kind of agreeing to Go to the North American charging standard.
There's still so much need for
figuring out like you're even talking about, we still have to deal with adapters and even when five years from now or whenever that this has become fully integrated, I think
there's still so much need for just around figuring out where it is and even looking at the native infotainment and route planners really in electric vehicles today.
think I was using one the other day and.
The Tesla, it's really like you guys, Tesla, and that's about it as far as having a system that really effectively works for route planning right now.
Well, I love to be put in the same conversation as their software because they do do it very well.
But to your point, think that I had a conversation with this about this earlier today, actually.
The issue I think that's happening, especially from the legacy auto brand side is that, you know, they they've built the cars with the big batteries in them.
So now they're building electric cars.
Right.
But the software side is also not their prowess.
So they are seeking out software support wherever and however they can.
whether that's Volkswagen trying it internally with KeriAd and then finally switching over to partner with, I'm sorry, with Rivian for Volkswagen side, but also brands like GM that
are working with Google, for example, they're all going to wherever they think the software can help make it happen for them.
I think the Volkswagen Rivian connection will be, I think it will, in time will work out pretty well, because Rivian is more of a brain trust around kind of the Tesla approach.
There's a lot of Tesla alumni that are there.
Yeah.
But then you look at legacy brands like GM and working with Google, kind of have this issue of GM knows they need a better software solution for in-vehicle software.
And they're going to a very large scale software provider that has a lot of prowess in it.
But you then have Google not really living out the fact that they're building software for cars.
They're building software for a lot of things.
So it's not necessarily that they fully understand what needs to be built.
and they were kind of expecting GM to translate to them or other automakers to say, no, no, no, we need it to do this, you know, and GM and other legacy brands, they may, may
not.
mean, I just don't see that they necessarily fully understand that because we're still seeing things like, like Ford's announcement this last week of, okay, we've got a brand
new announcement about charging again, and we're just going to install your home charger for you and it's going to be free.
And then we've got the blue oval network still.
It's amazing.
And we've got roadside, I was looking at the four talking points that were posted with that announcement.
I was kind of like, okay.
And I thought, sure, this shouldn't, just have been a thing from day one that you were focusing on.
But I think it was kind of more evidence around the fact that when it comes to charging, whether we're talking software or strategy around how we communicated to buyers, there's
just still a ton of gaps that are not fully yet understood, I think from the legacy world.
So yeah.
No, and I think, yeah, I'm really curious to see mentioning the Ford rollout, how that's going to happen, because I think it definitely has a lot of good potential and there's a
lot of great things there, including, but it also kind of shows to me like kind of what you've alluded to some of the gaps still in that knowledge, like, well, it's charging and
there's home charging.
Let's just find a partnership.
Someone else will do it.
Then it's taken care of.
Then they'll buy these electric vehicles.
Right.
Versus kind of like flipping the mentality around like, okay,
or even really just trying to figure out that first principles and going to what is the problem and figuring out what that truly is before you try to solve it.
Well, that's a great point.
I think the first principles idea that you just mentioned, I mean, think the, as we've been saying, I've been, know, charge has been saying, and I've been saying for what now is
like the better part of a decade is, you know, it is about the new fueling experience and how it aligns with the vehicle you select and the lifestyle that you have and how you make
it simple for people to naturally get themselves into that.
And I think this, you know, the announcement from Ford is, think is another example of the disconnect that the automakers are having with how they're being able to train and
leverage the dealers to do a lot of this work on their behalf.
And, you know, the dealers, you know, there's from the dealer side, there's been, you know, some elements of, embracing EVs.
There's been some elements of them saying, you know, no, mean, and again, from rooftop to rooftop, it can differ obviously, you know, showroom to showroom.
I think that is going to still be something that the legacy brands, you know, this is just an example through Ford of just saying, we are going to like smooth the runway so much to
say, we'll pay for it.
We'll just do it.
If you have a home, we'll just take care of it.
We don't even care anymore.
And that's all that has to be translated to the showroom.
think that's just an example of a legacy brand saying, we're just having to resolve some of these hangups for people saying yes to our products.
But I still come back to the fact that, you know, if people don't realize there's another fuel option out there and they're not thinking of, want to buy a car that runs on
electricity because of the benefits around that, then we're still going to have a lot of vehicles sitting at lots now because we've moved beyond the early adopters that did all
their homework.
We are now hitting that chasm and.
in adoption curve.
so that's, I think something that, we're just going to, until we address this to your point, until we ask, what is the problem and address it correctly.
Again, I, I watch football all the time.
I don't see an ad for electric fuel, but boy, do I see fossil fuel commercials.
I mean, there you go.
So, I mean, I don't know.
I feel like a broken record at this point, but damn it.
think I'm right.
Well, I think what's also really interesting about that is I think just looking at legacy automaker There's such a big disconnect I think between the boardroom and then the actual
engineering of the vehicle still it's gone better But like I think a great example of that was kind of just the North American Charging standard Announcements that were kind of
executed by these legacy car companies a little over a year ago now saying just like you know what?
If the CCS thinks the issue is hell with it, we'll just go do what Tesla is doing and that'll solve the problem, And then it would kind of cut off all these engineers actually
building the product, say, wait, what?
Off guard.
I've heard that I've heard those stories from people that are inside the some auto brands saying we had no knowledge of this.
We read the press release just like you did.
And we're like, we decided what you know.
yeah, that was again, that was a bit of I mean, again, I will give credit to Jim Farley, you know, for basically just saying, look, I finally realized I need to address this and
what that then did on behalf of incentivizing and encouraging others to do the same.
So
Again, my opinion is Tesla's plug design here in North America, without a doubt, is more elegant than anything else out there.
It's simple, it's lightweight, it's the same at home, away from home.
mean, the beauty of design in that respect was designed for people.
It wasn't an engineering solution that then was handed to people.
So I think that's a good thing.
But the problem, to your point, is the knee jerk, we'll just do this.
It didn't take into consideration other elements of, okay,
because of software in the background, how do we explain that not every supercharger is accessible via these adapters?
How do we contend with the fact that the plug, know, the connector ports on these vehicles are not uniform and so we're blocking chargers if an F-150 pulls up?
I mean, it just feels like, you know, it's designed chaos still in some ways, even though on paper it sounds like it was a better decision and I think it'll prove to be, but it's
gonna be some pain along the way, so.
When I think the next part of that I was going to go is not only do you have this kind of design, I like that design chaos internally at the organization, but then you have the
dealership level of it.
And I do agree with you where it's like, I've even had some recent experiences with dealerships and I, be honest with you, I thought the sales people themselves were nice,
great and understanding.
anytime I asked about electric vehicles, they wanted nothing to do with it.
partially.
Understandably they have a quota they like there's there isn't a huge incentive for them to go down that path to ask all these questions to figure it out Whereas they know they
can just kind of huck the combustion vehicle but the part that really surprised me too that just was this another level of I think just in the realm of EVs and EV charging the
old saying of like the path to hell or the path to hell is paved with good intentions
yeah.
of the things they were talking about was just like these EV incentives where they're just like well this one qualifies for 3750 this one doesn't qualify at all they qualify if
you've leased them and so there's just like all this like Well intended things that really make at the end of the day for a lot of dealerships now that it doesn't happen But I mean
when you're the salesperson that has to had a quo vote by it Quoted by the end of the month or they lose their job or whatever.
It's just like okay I'm just gonna sell this combustion engine vehicle because I know
they'll at least understand I can go on the next thing.
Yeah, no, I mean, you're very correct in that.
Again, the incentive piece and how it was designed, again, how the politicians got involved with this in the last few years around reimagining the federal rebate and things
of that nature.
Again, best of intentions.
They wanted to, on one hand, maintain giving a financial benefit to consumers.
On the other hand, they wanted to incentivize automakers domestically to produce, mine for minerals and do all that stuff in North America to encourage job development inside the EV
world.
all great with intention.
But yeah, to your point, it's like, how does that translate to a sales experience and an ownership experience?
And the answer is, in both cases, it's like, well, this still is not working out in a way that people are going, yay.
So, you know, I, I don't know.
mean, like, I feel like I've had this conversation with you and others in the industry so many times, where, and there's, and there's, and there's no easy fix to it, aside from
admitting when you've got a problem.
You know, I mean, so to that example for a conversation we just had about like the Naxx connector, that was the legacy automakers admitting they had a problem as it related to
ease of access to electricity as a fuel type away from home.
And that's why they said, we'll just wave a white flag and embrace Tesla's approach.
It then forced the rest of the industry and every other network and hardware manufacturer to say, all right, well, now we have to add the Tesla connector to all of our stuff.
Otherwise we're going to become antiquated immediately.
It then blends into the adapter conversation for, God, how long is that going to last?
And if you ask someone like Gabe Klein at the joint office, I think it was like a year ago now, he did an internal video with, with, where Steve Lommel, one of the guys at the joint
office, they were chatting about some of these challenges and Gabe just said, goes, yeah, adapters are a part of the EV ownership experience in North America for the foreseeable
future.
You know, it's just like, that's the casual of saying like, yeah, this is a decades long issue that doesn't solve itself overnight.
So no, it's, it's, there's no easy answer right now.
And I think it concerns me is the fact that.
The old cliche, if you never get a second chance to make a first impression, we have a lot of the public right now that has just been hearing nothing about nothing, but things about
EVs for the last three, four or five years.
And have we lived up to that hype, whether it's automakers or charging or you name it.
And there's a lot of people that have basically called the industry's bluff and said, I don't think you were ready.
And in reality, the product is ready in so many ways based on who you are and where you live.
could really meet your need in a very
elegant way.
But that hasn't been the narrative.
We've just been approaching selling cars the same way we always have.
It's like, guys, that's not how we can do this now.
So I think we're in some ways, I think the industry has been shooting itself in the foot a little bit.
And we've got to pivot and change some ways about how we're approaching go to market strategy, communicating it to the public.
You know, that's that's what charge was about.
Like we've been saying that for a long time.
segue.
I'll give a shameless pitch to Chargeway.
So I know you guys are working on a lot of new things like Chargeway Plus program.
But I think what is really cool is you guys are much more than just an app Obviously, you do a lot of work with dealerships and kind of getting beacons in the stores.
So maybe you can kind of share, anyone that might not be familiar with what your work there has been at Chargeway and what that can help accomplish with these difficult
conversations.
Well, the first thing we identified five years ago was, if the pain point is we got to help people understand how to buy these and also sell them, these being electric cars.
And the biggest challenge was explaining charging.
So the Chargeway software platform is designed to really live in the customer journey.
So we can put our solution on a dealer website, on a utility website, and show that if you choose this car, we make it easy for you to see where you charge, how you charge, plan a
road trip, et cetera.
But that same solution can then live in a showroom at a dealership in a kiosk format.
And then the same solution can be downloaded in your pocket on an iPhone or an Android phone.
And that means that you keep a consistent visualization, explanation, and experience through the process of hopping through the hoops of, I finally buy the car?
And so the retail experience and the kiosk, the beacon, as we call it, is really meant to be an electric fuel sales expert on the showroom floor at any showroom.
that's dedicated to that brand of vehicle.
So if you're in a Volkswagen showroom, it showcases how that works for Volkswagen EVs.
If you're in a Chevy showroom, same thing.
And we've had a lot of success getting it into showrooms and training and showing dealer sales reps.
Look, if you get this question, here's your response.
You get this question, here's your response.
We had a great quote given to us the other day.
We have a program in the state of Michigan that was funded through the state of Michigan and working with utilities in the state.
to deploy beacons into showrooms throughout the state to get different feedback from different buying geographic areas.
And one of the people from the program went and visited a dealership that has a beacon and they had recently been trained.
And at the end of the conversation, this person from the state of Michigan said, I have to be perfectly honest with you.
At the end of it, it was very clear that that sales rep had really leveraged that tool in their sales experience and the sales process rather.
And by the end of it, I was convinced like I could buy this car.
And I said,
Yeah.
That's the point.
so their response was no, you can tell that sales rep loved using it because it did answer questions easily, visually, and it made it so that I can feel confident.
And so that is it.
That's where we are at.
But as a small company, we have to find the right partners to help us distribute that solution as far and wide as we can.
Utilities have been a great partner in that process.
Obviously states where we've had been able to get grants have been a great part of that process.
But the end of the day, the beacon and the mobile app are designed to show you where you can charge the vehicle you've selected, how long it'll take, and make it simple to
navigate all that design chaos we were talking about.
No, I think it's such a really cool technology because for like the dealership experience and especially for dealer salespeople in dealerships, it's almost kind of like an electric
vehicle Rosetta Stone sort of thing where it really does translate a lot of these different ideas and makes it.
And I mean, for me, even personally being a visual person, I really like that it is not just like another flyer.
You can kind of tap the screen and it kind of just starts kind of changing these.
It's just another level to engage with and really is kind of a helpful sales tool.
Well, the idea is car salespeople, know how to sell the benefits of a car.
They really do.
mean, that's why car sales, they've been around for a long time and people get into it and can be very successful professionally.
That's the catch though, is they're not selling cars anymore.
They're selling a new fueling experience and no one told them that.
And the automakers in their attempt to address it, whether it was GM having their GM EV live website where you could get a walkthrough with something, I did that a few times just
to see what it was like.
And you can just tell that it's an automakers approach to trying to explain something complicated by kind of glossing over the realities of why it's complicated, trying to make
it feel like it's good.
And in reality, it's like, yeah, but you're, you're.
Yeah.
Kind of like, and I mean, I would just, I was, and these are loaded questions.
Right.
It's just like guys, it's well, the Apple product is a closed ecosystem in the way that Tesla is.
And so that's what made the Tesla experience so great.
And I think that.
That's a software minded approach to the product development.
no, I I still think we have, without a doubt, the most effective software and strategy for communication for how to explain charging without question.
We're just finally to a place, I think, where the rest of the industry is finally starting to really feel that pain.
And they're like, got to keep figuring this out.
And we've had more just natural interest from stakeholders contacting us this year who have said,
We think that you have the right strategy and your comment about charge me being the Rosetta stone of the industry in that way.
My brother said the same thing to me years ago.
He said, you literally have developed out like the Rosetta stone of energy when it comes to using it as a fuel for cars.
And so I appreciate hearing that again.
I mean, it lets us know we're on the right path.
Yeah, I think what's really interesting, mean, just kind of stay on that topic.
Obviously there is the some of those Wall Street pressure, I guess that these big auto companies were getting and looking at kind of Tesla success among others and looking at
that platform idea where it's like, you can have a car, you can have a solar on your house that powers the car and then you have just a battery at home that we can also make and
sell to you.
This seems like we're just going to be printing money and this is just an awesome opportunity.
Let's do this too.
And I think there's a reason it's also taken Tesla so long to scale all this stuff because there is a lot of even just for example, and I believe you got a solar system on your
home, I believe, right?
Just how different every house is, how every house is wired in a different way and how if you're trying to get even a solar system work on it, let alone those systems to
communicate.
And then you take it the next level where you want to have like a vehicle to grid or vehicle to home solution.
And it's going to be wickedly expensive unless you kind of know what you're doing.
And I think that was part of reason Tesla took so long to actually kind of market with a vehicle to home solution, because it is, unless you have something really simple and cost
effective, it's a pretty expensive proposition.
It sounds great on paper, the idea to back up your home whenever.
But for a lot of them, kind of the approaches that we've seen, it has been
easily a $10,000 especially if you need like a panel upgrade or anything like that to go to that kind of backup unfortunately.
Well, and everything you just described is the problem that the promise of the EV is.
Is the problem.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And what most people.
Yeah.
Well, that's the problem is the assumptions like, yeah, it'll just work out.
it's like, well, we don't have any evidence of that yet.
And I think that a big part of that issue is we have a population, like a general public, that they're not really educated in how energy or electricity works.
They just have been.
on the receiving end of the fact that industry has made it work.
And so for 100 years, it's like, I flipped the switch, light goes on, I have a TV, I have a computer now that's all powered by this stuff.
Hey, isn't that great?
And all I have to do is pay a bill every month that I don't like paying.
And that's how they think of energy.
They don't actually understand.
I mean, what was the there was a Netflix special who was Zach Efron, I think, or whoever it was, it was him and somebody else like going around and seeing different parts of the
world and how
you know, how they were managing natural resources and everything else.
And there was this one episode about they were in Iceland and it was a whole plant about how they manage their energy.
And he was and they were explaining how it all helped electricity in the country.
He goes, I got to be honest, to me, electricity is just magic.
Like I don't understand how it works, you know.
And I thought to myself, yeah, that's that's how most people do think about it is they don't really comprehend how it works.
And so that's the issue.
We're trying to get people to embrace buying products that reimagine their engagement with a product they've never thought of.
And Tesla, they did make a pretty good ecosystem around that.
did.
I think to your point, I think they didn't jump the gun on the Vita X opportunity.
On one hand, they could make money selling batteries at home.
You know, I get that.
That's, that's capitalism.
But on the other side of it too, I think that what Ford encountered is what Tesla kind of imagined, which was, yes, you can say that your vehicle can be your backup, but that means
your vehicle goes from being a vehicle to just being a battery.
That's it.
And so the idea of then having to hook that up, causing
10 grand or 20 grand for home upgrades.
At that point, it's like, why not just buy home solar and home batteries and still have your vehicle as maybe additional backup, it's still just a vehicle.
So yeah, there's a lot of that to still unpack.
and I think you're spot on.
think it's just so interesting because there have been well-intentioned, guess, advocates and people interested in doing like vehicle to home, vehicle to grid stuff.
yeah, Tesla, know that, and not to like just keep pushing that, know there's, believe Rivian's going to do this with some of their next-gen vehicles, but go to an AC-based
vehicle to grid system versus kind of this DC system we've seen with Ford and others.
Yeah.
requires so many more home upgrades that has really made it expensive.
Whereas with the Tesla solution, it's like a sub thousand dollar gateway that they put in and then it just talks with the panel and keeps it a lot simpler.
And I think it's just kind of that thing.
And you're totally right.
You can sell more batteries.
But what this does also finally unlock, and I mean, I'm personally interested in is like, OK, I don't even buy seven batteries if I can get it to work in my car.
I'm okay to buy one or two when I want to drive the car around and then it's the car's kind main thing, but that's a whole nother discussion.
that strategy is, think, exactly how I view it.
mean, my wife and I have home batteries at our house.
And if inevitably we can unlock our cars to be a supplement to that as well, that's just gravy.
But otherwise, we're off grid here in Portland, where we're based, we're off grid like six, seven months out of the year.
We just solely rely on our solar and home batteries, which is amazing.
We're in Portland.
Imagine if we lived in Scottsdale.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, what is it?
Germany always gets like this was a stat I learned years ago, but it was like Germany was getting like 30 to 40 percent of their energy from solar and their most sunny spot is
still less than than the least sunny spot of Oregon, which is Astoria, Oregon, and that they were still able to get so much solar that kind of just tells me like
There's a lot that need to be figured out in that realm too, but it can work just about anywhere when priced right and kind of figure it out.
no, without a doubt.
mean, that's solar.
mean, again, you've heard people like Elon say it over the years, but there's been plenty of other people saying it longer than him, which is there's this gigantic energy source
just hanging out every day.
And we can draw from it.
Pretty simple.
think energy storage was the was really the breakthrough on how we could really position that from, you know, a personal experience for people.
And that's why I referenced the concept of energy ownership moving forward here in in the US and beyond.
where you have to help people see that they can kind of, especially if they're homeowners, renters, maybe not so much, but homeowners, they can be in many ways, you the master of
their own destiny around how much are we controlling our energy and what does that create for our confidence in either lifetime of, you know, cost savings or energy backup in case
things happen with the grid, as we just saw, you know, with Hurricane Helene and how devastating that was across multiple states, that is going to be something that people are
going to have to start actively thinking about.
But then who is marketing this stuff?
Is it automakers?
Is it utilities?
Well, not really because the PUCs have made it clear that utilities can't just go and say, hey, buy this product.
And so there's a lot of bureaucratic hangups, legacy hangups around messaging, conditioning around the population about how they've been using products.
There's a lot we're working through right now as an industry when it comes to clean energy.
Yeah, and I think that is kind of one of those things.
I'll change the subject here just because it does seem like we keep coming back to the same thing.
Like we don't know.
We don't know what the answer is and it's not great, but it is slowly improving.
And I think what is really interesting is this is just kind of another example of and once again is not to like focus on Ford in negative way.
But when they started doing these kind of vehicle to grid things, they partnered with Sun Run, which does a lot of solar and
home battery backup stuff.
So it seems like that'd be a great partnership.
And I think it's probably changed.
But yeah, it was pretty clear early on at least.
They ran into a lot of issues with trying to get both these systems to talk together.
And it's not just like, we're the auto industry, we've been able to work with using contractors and parts suppliers for years, we'll just find our own supplier for solar and
it'll be fine.
And it kind of is just that unfortunate.
kind of wall that a lot of these companies keep running into around just like a lot more of this has to be done either in either done internally or have a clear plan of how to
execute it internally and so when you do go to suppliers and like like you're kind of saying with Google and the software side you have a clear message that you can say this is
what we need we know we can't do it but we need you to build it and if you don't have that then you do kind of run this cyclical issue
I think what you're defining there is if you don't have a vision for the product experience and you're the decision maker around that, well, then if you just decided to do
a parts bin approach or a partnership approach that you think is gluing together what you're trying to replicate, which is what you're seeing the competition do.
Yeah, you're not going to create an end game for consumers where they'll say, wow, this was really well executed or really well thought out.
They're going to have pain points that will make them say, I wish I hadn't done this.
And that's the last thing you need because then inevitably you create a skeptical buyer in the future.
And I think that that is the, that's the biggest, the biggest challenge right now.
And a big issue and risk right now for the EV industry is we are trying to get product in the hands of the public and we're trying to translate the value proposition, beyond just
financial and whatever ways that make people feel comfortable and confident.
But we are, we don't have the best go to market strategy for every brand out there.
It is unfortunately creating some product skepticism based on experience.
and that's where, you know, again, we just need to, exactly.
said it.
We just need a better strategy on what the vision is as opposed to we just gotta.
And I think there's been billions spent now on the, just gotta, as you said, you're like, these people that were making these decisions in these boardrooms, cause they're like,
look what the competition is.
Do we got to meet and match that?
And, and I, I mean, I recently was on another podcast and they had another conversation with us where I said, wait a minute.
So Jim Farley.
As an example, I credit him for saying we got to make a switch around our charging experience publicly.
But the way that it was framed was I was out with my family.
We're on a road trip with one of our Ford electric vehicles and we're just we were just not having the best of time figuring out the charging experience.
But my kid pointed out, look at the Tesla thing.
It seems to be easier for them.
He's like, gosh, yeah, you know what?
You're right.
Let's just try to partner with them.
I remember saying I was like, wait a minute.
That's when you had that moment.
Like you've spent billions of dollars on this product development and that's when you had that moment.
And that was very, that just shocked me, frankly.
That bowled me over.
I think, I mean, and maybe that's just a fun example or kind of like, because I've heard that same story too.
And I kind of got the same thing.
And I was like, well, maybe that's, I don't know, maybe just sounds better than our analysts showed me all the state and we'd realize we have to do this.
no, I think that's another thing that we unfortunately talk about a lot on this show where you have people making decisions and not just even in
companies, but just like around policy that don't actually drive electric vehicles.
And so it can be so puzzling from the outside in of like, doesn't this just work?
Or it's we're just plugging.
It's literally just plugging something like I do my phone.
Why doesn't that work?
And it really does.
You really do need that day to day, maybe pain of trying to do it yourself to realize how big of an issue and how serious this is to be solved correctly.
Yeah, no, that's so important that you have to have a lived experience with the product that you're trying to get the mass market to buy.
but in again, as I said, like with regards to like, Jim Farley and Ford, on one hand, I give them full credit for having the self awareness and actually having the balls as a CEO
of a major company to go pivot, pivot, we're making a pivot.
But then on the other hand, I'm like, why on earth did it require that?
Like, how is it you didn't have the team or again, and I think it's your point is the living it out.
And I think that that's because they were approaching and how they always have a product development, which is we make cars and trucks.
We build them in the way that we think is going to be marketable to the public.
We've heard that electric vehicles are the future.
We've been mandated in some ways, so let's figure it out.
And so their approach was how they've always done it, which is drawing board, get the vehicle designed.
Now we got to put a big battery in it.
Where do we get the software from?
We source it as we always have.
And then like when Mary Barra was interviewed now seven years ago, when the bolt came out.
And was asked, what's your plan for infrastructure?
And on that day, she said, we don't do that.
Now their tune has obviously changed.
They got partnerships with EB go and go down the list.
But the fact that there was not, again, this gets back to the vision point.
There was no one internally that was embracing the vision of that evolution.
They were, and still are being very reactionary.
And this is where, you know, people like John, macro who's been on your podcast before, and I enjoy chatting with him, hearing him explain.
what he sees and product differences between like what he's testing from China and what he's seeing domestically or from Europe and how he's just like, you can tell there's a
different vision here.
You can just tell they understand it differently.
And I think that that you then couple that with the fact that we now have tariffs keeping the public from experiencing these products.
And I think, yeah, the American public is going to be sheltered and insulated from maybe seeing what the future of their energy and transportation world can be.
because of these things and I don't think that's the right path forward to keep domestic brands competitive.
I don't think it's a good strategy.
sure.
No, I agree with there and that I guess that's kind of an interesting thing that we talked about a little bit before the show was just kind of the scale back we're now seeing
indirectly kind of with the tariffs too.
But yeah, the scale back from OEMs and I'd be just kind of curious maybe what you're seeing in that regards or just what even your thoughts are about that right now.
I think the tariffs that we're seeing are with kind of, again, with the path the hell is laid, with pay with the best of intentions kind of thing.
We're looking at a situation by which policy has been driving a lot of these decisions around, how are we trying to help industry create jobs, compete, improve?
But if industry is not embracing those policies and saying, we do want to compete, we do want to improve, we do want to evolve, I think that the pullback we're seeing is based on
the fact
On one hand, they're being protected.
They don't really need to be as competitive as they should be.
And on the other hand, they're looking at it saying, well, practically speaking, what's happening at our showrooms where we're trying to sell these products and we're starting to
see that EVs are starting to pile up at showrooms and we're seeing various brands talk about it.
Let's be very clear, though.
EV sales are still going up.
I mean, they're not flatlining.
They're not going down.
They're just not this crazy spike of a sale that I think some people might have anticipated.
Yeah.
seeing sales.
again, if you're in an urban city center, you're seeing the fact that, there's more EVs and more models on the road.
Variety's hitting more.
We're seeing the GM with the Equinox, the Blazer, the Silverado, the Denali.
Those are good things, right?
So my concern then is as to what we're seeing on these pullbacks, again, it gets back to what I've often said, which is an EV is just a car.
People need to see it as that's a reliable car.
And it is coupled with a fuel that they can, they know what it is and they know how to use it they can trust it it doesn't overwhelm them.
And I think that we're, we're now seeing that real pain point live out, which is, you know, why would the public rush into the dealerships to buy a car that they perceive that
they can't trust?
And that's not because it's a car.
Yeah.
It's because of how they understand how they use it with the fuel.
And so, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll keep saying that until it sinks into the industry.
feel like I, know, but does that, is that the only problem with what we're seeing in the industry?
No, it's a collection of problems.
It's a, you I, can't, you can't sell vision.
the amount of times, I how many companies have basically put on market what they want to do and others that attempted to copy it and they just didn't get it right.
I mean, good example is the iPod.
The iPod comes out and every major like Microsoft Dell at, you have to have an MP3 player and they come up with this brick that has songs in it.
And then you go, okay, but
Why would I buy yours when I have access to this store that has all these agreements with all this music that it syncs right to my computer and gosh, it's a seamless.
Wow.
Jobs really thought that one out.
Whereas everyone else was like, here's a thing that plays songs that are digital.
It's no different than what we see happening in the industry right now, which is here's a car with a big battery in it that runs on electricity.
It's like, yeah, but you didn't think about the software, the charging, the mobile app, the energy connection, and they're reacting in real time to try to figure that out.
Well, you also brought up really interesting point about EV sales aren't skyrocketing, but they're still growing.
Yeah, yeah.
And when you look at the actual kind of speaking on John McRoy, this one of the things we talked about was the actual auto market's actually shrinking pretty considerably compared
to what they had expected it to be even earlier this year for this year's total auto sales.
So it is, I think, definitely one area to still be optimistic that sure it's not growing as fast, but when you look at the larger automotive market, the fact that's even growing
at all this year, if you're kind of paying attention to what else is going on is actually still pretty impressive.
And I completely agree with you on the vision part of it.
versus just like, here's a competitive product, here's a widget.
People are buying widgets, right?
And not understanding that there's kind of the platform or overall experience that attaches with that.
Yep.
No, I think, it's interesting too, is the latest graph I saw about this, and I forget who shared it, but the data effectively expressing that peak combustion vehicle sales actually
happened in 2017.
And from that year, we have been seeing combustion vehicle sales go down and plug-in hybrid, hybrid and electric vehicle sales go up.
mean, hybrids still just run on gasoline.
I'm not a huge fan of lumping them in.
If it doesn't run on electricity where you can actually fill it up with electricity, I'm like, that's not an electric car.
But at the same time, it's true.
We are seeing the variety of fuel sources being electric and how that pairs to sales.
It is that those sales are going up incrementally.
Combustion sales are going down.
Even if we're seeing a tapering of vehicle sales overall in the market, yeah, we're still seeing that EVs are gaining traction.
And maybe, I don't know, maybe that's a soft skepticism from the public.
And there's a consumer psychology piece to that where
People are, well, on top of it, this is where John would just step right in and go, these cars cost you fucking much.
You know?
You know, and I would say like...
think what you're saying is also true.
It's just like, it's a smorgasbord.
Like, pick one issue of many as to why.
Yeah.
the overall cost is still pretty damn high.
Yeah.
Interest rates are not conducive to someone buying a new car right now.
And so I think those factors and what John, I'm pretty sure was on your podcast, made an interesting comment about how the prices skyrocketed in the last four years for cars.
I mean, it went up in a, what's it, 30 % or something ridiculous.
was just like, and that they did that to the public.
But so we're not going to see them reduce the prices.
They're hoping that the cost of living and wages will somehow catch up to the fact that, that's what a car costs now.
And I thought that was a very interesting, you know, like, you know, take and also explanation about the challenge that the industry faces, because we don't necessarily know
how that's going to go from a wage perspective.
And on top of that, if the only thing they can do is start giving more incentives back to the customer in some fashion.
Well, the cars that have built in incentives will probably be the ones that
you know, arguably could sell better, which are electrics.
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot to unpack with that.
But I just think that overall, the industry is still going in the right direction.
It's just that there's so much of it that on a day to day basis, it can it can create a conversation around, you know, consumer confidence, sales confidence, you name it.
For sure, and I think that is kind of an interesting point too of where the tariffs come back in.
It's like, well, the advantage of these cheaper electric Chinese cars, obviously there'd be safety standards they have to pass, but we are seeing that with some of the ones going
to Europe.
That would come in and kind of meet that need for the lower point.
in some ways, the fact that...
I gave her trying to protect workers and stuff, but it's also kind of unfortunately hurting the American consumer that they can't have access to a cheaper vehicle when yeah,
there's just been this focus on kind of staying at this price point.
We're starting to see a couple come down, but a lot of the time that has been electric vehicles and that's only after they've qualified for like $10,000 worth of credits, which.
I think if you can qualify and get that great, but it just also doesn't seem sustainable.
And I can also get the argument from people who kind of want to hate on it.
It's like, well, it only makes sense if you have to give them all these credits, which I don't think is true, but it's like, unfortunately a fair point, or you can see why people
are kind of getting to that mindset with just how the current status quo has been.
Well, and we've have subsidized fossil fuels to the tune of billions of dollars a year, you know, and but no one.
Yeah, no one actively talks about it because.
Yeah, it's it's not yeah, it's not yeah, it's not at the point of sale that, by the way, we've subsidized the hell out of this.
It's just that we've all been on the receiving end of the benefits of that happening behind the scenes, which has helped basically hold up the auto industry through combustion
vehicles for a long time.
And we've benefited as consumers for having cheap gas.
But it's it's.
You know, I mean, people will learn that over time.
just think that, you know, we've, we've come to a place where, know, there's, there's just, again, there's no easy answer.
We have a lot left to do, but if you compare to where we were 10 years ago, it's like, holy cow.
Like for all the difficulties that exist in the marketplace and with society and politics and go down the list of everything.
It is incredible that the EVs have been able to get through what they've gotten through.
And at the end of the day, lessons will be learned through automakers and everybody from a go-to-market strategy as well.
I hope the lessons are learned.
And I think the pain points that we're now seeing that are happening to be more obvious, that frankly, in Chargeways world, we look at it and say, hey, this is something that we
can help solve in a lot of ways for a lot of different stakeholders and obviously for the public.
I think it's good thing.
But again, we're at the beginning of this.
We're all going to be old and I've got gray hair already, but we're going be old and gray haired at one point long in the future.
be like,
Man, that was a challenge, but boy, we got through it, so.
For sure, I mean, it's kind of funny even looking, I was talking to someone else about this.
I think they were kind of complaining about CCS and I kind of had to put like my grandpa voice on or something and say, well, back in my day 10 years ago, we were just happy to
find level two chargers, let alone the concept of anything charging over 50 kilowatts.
And even a decade ago, it was like you had the Model S at the high end and then there was like a Nissan Leaf and an i3 and...
It was such a small portion of the actual auto market or I guess auto buying market that EVs could even be a thing for.
now to see how many more models and areas that are covered by not just different EVs, but different automakers too is definitely something to be also optimistic about.
yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's, going the right direction.
I think the fact that we're seeing more people that are joining owners groups on social media, for example, you'll hear them ask a question.
You'll hear them talk about their EV buying or ownership experience.
And you can genuinely tell us like, this is not a person who's an early adopter or innovator.
They, they really, really wanted to give this a shot.
And I think that's where there's positive evidence around we're going the right direction.
It then just turns into how great of an experience can we actually give these people.
so that they will say to their friends and family and even for a future purchase, they'll say, yeah, I'm gonna do that again.
And we've still got some ways that they might say no, that we're working through.
But at the end of the day, yeah, they have over a hundred vehicle options to choose from now that have a plug from dozens of brands.
That's a big deal.
That's a move in the right direction.
that seems unfathomable.
I still kind of find that hard to believe which is crazy But yeah, I guess one of the things since we have yawn I know I'm not sure how much you can share with us but looking
at charge way and you're talking about charge way plus before we went on and just I think that became an interesting thing to talk about with the time we have right now just what
you can share about that and For those listening what they can might who might already be using charge way what they could be looking forward to as well
Yeah, Chargeway Plus, I mean, it's designed to really just elevate the experience that people have within the Chargeway mobile app.
So the Chargeway mobile app is free to use on iOS and Android.
Chargeway Plus allows you to connect your vehicle directly to Chargeway.
And so the telematics of your car, the state of charge, starting and stopping the charge, basically allows you to have a more automated experience with Chargeway so that when you
are looking at public stations, for example, you don't have to go in and set what your battery is or what your charge limit is.
You can just go right to the map and say, okay, what's my charge time going to be at any given station?
We wanted to remove some barriers of the manual process of understanding how it all works and just automate it more.
And we're getting some great feedback around that.
And that's, launched it as a pilot with Austin energy back in the spring.
We then launched it to all of North America in the summertime.
And really we're just trying to give people the opportunity to give it a test drive.
So you can try it for 30 days for free and see what it does for your experience based on your ownership.
In time, we're going to build out.
more features as it relates directly to your home charging management experience, how you can see what's going on with your home charging, you know, sessions and what that's
looking like for energy usage on a regular basis.
We're adding in those features so that it's not just about having an easier public charging experience for what your wait time might be.
It's also about what your home charging management can look like, because those are really the two lifestyles, homeowner and non-homeowner.
And we want people that are using our platform to feel that we've been mindful of their experience, regardless of what their lifestyle might be.
And we are going to integrate more things over time that make the Chargeway Plus experience just more feature fulfilled in the sense of what else can we add in that gives
you real time around pricing, activation of charging sessions, things of that nature.
Those will be elements we roll in over time that we really think is going to make a comprehensive tool that everybody's going to look at and say, well, depending on my
lifestyle, this is a great fit because it gives me these features and it's great.
And then how do we use that to connect people back to
experiences that matter to their lifestyle.
So that's where we can partner with utility companies.
We recently partnered with A to Z adapters for basically allowing a user to say, I don't have to go shopping for what adapter works for me.
Chargeway just tells me I added my car and it says, these are your adapters you can use.
And so little stuff like that for how we tailor the experience is what we're really focused on.
So I do invite everybody to download Chargeway.
You can try Chargeway Plus for free for 30 days, connect your car, and obviously give us as much feedback as possible because we love knowing how we can be better.
Yeah, I guess for anyone listening the link to charge away is always in the show notes whenever we have Matt on so definitely check it out and give it a try if you haven't
already.
One of the things I guess from a more technical standpoint I know it's been a little while since I played around with it in a car that is the CarPlay integration with what you guys
are doing and is that still part of the free one or is that now going to be kind of more
Or I guess maybe with the Chargeway Pro does that start unlocking some kind of additional cool things that you can do with that integration?
Yeah, so Chargeway Plus, I mean, basically, Apple integration for Apple CarPlay, it's free to use with Chargeway.
Inevitably, the Chargeway Plus integration will allow us to create a more immersive interaction with what you can do with Chargeway via CarPlay, via Android Auto, whenever we
can release that.
We've been working on it for a while, but we've got to get that out.
But that's the idea is that whatever you're doing in your mobile device, can then, obviously, if you're saying, I want to...
get real-time pricing for what this might be at a location.
I want to get an activated session here.
That's what Plus will be able to provide you, whether it's in mobile or in CarPlay.
The issue with CarPlay and Android Auto from an emulation perspective is they just reduce through the functionality of the in-car screen from a safety perspective what features you
can have in the screen.
So we have to be very thoughtful around what would someone want just for a quick glance and doing inside of the screen of the vehicle.
You just don't have as rich of an experience through CarPlay or Android Auto, but...
But it's funny you say that because I remember I was playing a ride, I forgot what car I was in.
Okay, now I won't say it on here, but let's just say the native experience provided by the automaker was not great.
And even the more limited just like functionality I could use with Chargeway on the IOET, like just using it through CarPlay was still a much better and like clearer experience
than what was being provided.
Yeah.
who talked to a software provider and said, just help us solve this.
They weren't really providing the roadmap of how they knew it would be effective for a driver and their customer.
And the beauty of this is because we've got that in an app that anybody can use either for free or they can upgrade to Chargeway Plus, but they can also use that for CarPlay today.
That's the beauty of the fact that we, again, we had the right vision.
I'm happy and very proud of what we've built.
But at the same time, I don't want it to just live in charge way.
If we can work and partner with some of these companies, whether it's an automaker or someone else, we want to, we want to help them improve this experience because our mission
was always make the electric vehicle experience more enjoyable for everyone, regardless of who they are, what they drive.
And whoever we can work with on making that possible, that's what we want to do.
Yeah, I guess for anyone who is listening, whether they be an automaker or work in a like DC fast charging company, I guess what could you share some examples of maybe what you've
either done or would like to do to kind of help those kinds of people make their end all product be a lot better by incorporating charge away.
Well, the cool thing about our software is, we can overlay it onto any other mapping solution.
Right.
So for example, I think that's, that's, that's one of the hiccups we keep seeing is that it's this afterthought component.
For example, we've, we've had adapters built into our UI and interface for five years.
And we knew that that was going to be an element of ownership moving forward, even five years ago.
So now there's all this in-car interface where they're trying to figure out, okay, what's the best way for us to apply adapters, turn them on.
How does that change what's happening on the map?
How it, this is the best part about Chargeway.
is at a glance, you can look at the map and know that plug color means I can just plug in natively or I've got to use my adapter.
And that number means I'm going to be there for 15 minutes or maybe an hour just by glancing at the map.
That's what our system provides.
And so if you're in a vehicle, that's what you want for ease of use.
The fewer times you have to stare at the screen to figure something out or go through a menu or doing a filter.
It's like, how about you just use something that was designed with intent and it had vision around.
How do we make this easy for everyone based on what we know they need to know?
That's an example of where I know we could really help and work with a lot of these in-car experiences that various OEMs are working on.
We could help make that and improve that in a variety of ways.
And that translates right back to in-vehicle experiences for using things like push-to-talk and communicating to your car.
Instead of saying, find me a CCS combo SAE standard 150 kilowatt DC fast charger within five miles, it's like,
Hey, find me a green six within five miles.
You know, I mean, like basic stuff like that.
And how does that translate to more customers that maybe are bilingual or don't speak English?
And how do we translate that for them?
These are things that we were very mindful of and that via our software, how it can be applied to user experience is where we can really, really help a lot of different
stakeholders improve what the experience can be.
And I'm sure it's been a little while since I've used the app because I was playing around with it on a road trip about a year ago.
And I'm sure I remember you guys and maybe it depends on the actual DC fast charging provider and what information they share.
Does it show what like the availability of chargers is for certain companies or not?
I can remember.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
yeah, so we do have real time status for most of the major networks in North America.
Yeah, yeah, EVgo, Electrify America, Tesla Supercharging, Blink, and some of the regional like EVCS is mostly West Coast, we have real time integrated for them.
And we're integrating more real time status for more networks on a regular basis.
They're contacting us saying, how do do this?
So there's ways in which we've maintained wanting to give, again, empower
drivers, give them agency in their decision making, but also provide networks the ability to have, again, provide much better information via our platform.
And so, yeah, the real time status piece is important.
And that's something that, again, we've integrated with as many networks as we can, and we're going to keep improving on that as we go down the line.
You know, I think one of the things I've always said about electrification is like for it to be successful, it doesn't have to be just as good.
I mean, this is true with any technology.
For it to be like the new standard, it can't be just as good, to be better.
And I think that's where some of these kind of real time functionality things are really cool, especially when you're on a road trip.
If you can see proactively where you can skip or it's gonna, if you just go a little bit farther, it's gonna be cheaper or quicker overall.
That's just not, I mean, technically you could, but it's...
It's just something you don't really have available to you in a combustion vehicle and it's requires so much more work.
If even if you were to try and find some of this information, I think that's just some of the cool things that we're really seeing with what you guys do.
And obviously like Tesla kind of offers some of this information natively for their system, but having a much more just cross.
charge provider solution is such a cool thing to see and is really what EV drivers need and I think kind of goes back to like how do you create an experience that's better and
just more of a honestly easier and I think that example you just had about like trying to find like what's near me versus like I need to know a CCS between 150 to 250 kilowatt
within a certain like just making it more user friendly than over complicating it.
that's a beauty of it is, is, is if you give people a way to navigate the kit, the design chaos, like we were talking about earlier, if you give people the, like a system by which
they can navigate based on their own personal experiences, where they can look at it and say, all right, I've connected my, whatever vehicle it is, my Volkswagen ID4 to Chargeway
Plus.
And I know my vehicle's level six, that's the maximum, my vehicle's level six car.
I go to green stations, my current state of charge is 4%.
It says I want to go to 80.
I'm going go look at the map.
They can easily then tap on a pin and go, I know instantaneously based on the engineering information in the background, the charger has helped me with that's a 40 minute charge at
that station there, or maybe it's an hour charge there, or maybe it's 30 minutes here.
And that beauty of simplicity around personalization is what we designed to be holistic and agnostic in the sense that you can choose any automaker you want.
And we will make that experience that way for any brand of vehicle or any model you choose.
But then we're holistic in the sense that it is based on the landscape of what you have as options based on charging out there in the wild.
And it's a lot to manage, it's a lot to curate.
But I think drivers, as they become exposed to what they know they need to know over time, will appreciate the approach that we've had.
No, for sure.
No, I think that's what's really cool about it too is it is not only super approachable for new people, but it does kind of have those kind of pro features, if you will, that can
like as you start kind of learning and kind of playing with this and getting that confidence of driving a road trip and EV more, you're like, okay, how can I hack this
better?
That that tool really does allow.
I realize we're also coming up on the hour here.
So I want to be respectful of your time, but I know you've been also
Among all the things you're doing at Chargeway, you've also been kind of the MC at some of the Electrify Expo events.
Are you the one at New York City coming up?
Do you know what the dates are for that?
I was just going to say, if there's anyone that's listening to this and wants to meet you in person, I think that'd be a great event to not just meet you, but obviously learn more
about what Chargeway and the team does there.
Definitely, yeah.
And no, if you want to meet me at the New York Electrify Expo, October 12th and 13th, I will be at that event.
And the partnership we have at Electrify Expo has been a lot of fun.
the founder of expo, name is BJ Birtwell.
got a chance to know him, early on in my career over 20.
Yeah.
BJ is fantastic.
And I met him over 20 years ago, in my, started my career in the auto world and the auto aftermarket.
And, you know, he's been in the world of marketing for a long time and events, obviously has a, a, a very good skillset for it and knows how to do it.
we met and talked about his vision for expo, before COVID.
And I was like, God, man, of all people, yeah, you could do this and boy does the industry need it.
And so it's been really great to work with them.
You know, and his vision has always been, well, how do we make the experience easy for people at the expo event?
And how do we make it so that they will decide with confidence to buy an electric car?
And he saw what we were doing the chargeway and he just said, look, I recognize that you are talking about the other side of the conversation.
It's not just the vehicle, it's the fueling.
And how do we, how do we roll that in?
So we've been a partner to the expo since day one.
and my involvement with the, with the event this year,
has been, you know, there's an Amazon booth called the Amazon Recharge Zone and Amazon is a partner.
for you while at the San Francisco one.
So I had some big shoes to fill.
Now that was great.
I think it's such a great thing that you've been doing for just as of the many things you're doing right now.
It's been such a great addition to the Expos and having that there.
It's been fun.
mean, every city, every time we talk to people that are at the event, we get a chance to chat with industry professionals.
We're kind of like this.
I just have a conversation with folks about what they're working on.
Oftentimes local people could be solar installers, could be local level two charging installers.
Obviously other big players from the industry we've talked with that are at every event.
But it really is a chance for those who are at the event in person to hear these conversations.
And we invite them in to say, if you've got questions.
Like you just heard a 10 minute conversation about something.
What's your question?
And it's really fun because it personalizes and I think it removes a little bit of that layer of intimidation that some people might have.
And when we're saying, no, this is about having an open conversation, no dumb questions, come on by.
It's been a ton of fun.
And we get to showcase Chargeway inside of the booth through our mini beacon tablets that are there.
And it's really a way for us to, again, have a narrative around, it's not just about the car, it's about the fueling experience.
like our conversation has shown, where does that branch to in the energy experience that you might have based on your lifestyle?
It's where Chargeway wants to be.
And it's been a lot of fun working with BJ and his team on just having that happen.
No, and I think both Electrify Xp and What Charge We Do are very complimentary in having that kind of very welcoming and also just kind of like total full package of kind of...
learning more about, I mean, what's cool about electrify Expos, it's not just electric vehicles, they got electric vehicles, electric vehicle charging, and then e-bikes, you
name it, anything kind of mobility for anyone and everyone for the family is great.
But then obviously how you guys approach it for just charging across the board at Chargeway 2 on kind of like the digital and software side of being an EV driver is such a
much more streamlined and just overall much better experience than unfortunately still what we're seeing from the native stuff.
So it's really great to have that and I hope more
partner with what you guys are doing at Chargeway.
Matt, just want to say as we come up at the end of this hour, thank you again so much for coming on today.
Always a blast to talk with you and look forward to chatting with you again soon.
Perfect.
Well, again, thanks for the invite, Chase.
Always enjoy the chats.
Again, at the end of the day, things are progressing in the right direction.
I think it's awesome.
Yep.
Yeah.
And I'm psyched about where things are going to go, both for the industry and obviously for we're helping the industry do.
So thanks again for the invite today.
Great, thanks Matt.
That wraps up another episode of the Grid Connections podcast.
Huge thanks again to Matt Teske, founder of Chargeway for joining us again today and sharing his invaluable insights on how a Chargeway is making the EV experience smoother,
smarter, and more accessible for drivers everywhere.
If you're as excited as we are about the future of electric vehicles and the innovations happening in the charging space, be sure to download the Chargeway app and give it a try.
And don't forget to explore how Chargeway solutions are already helping EV owners navigate the electric fueling landscape with ease.
especially for those who work in dealerships and are just generally curious about electric vehicles and how to go on road trips with them.
I've used the app plenty of times and personally, I'm a very big fan.
think it's great to have more options like this out there.
As always, we love hearing from you.
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Thanks again for tuning in and until next week, this is the Great Connections podcast signing off.