CFFA Episode 10: Under the Rainbow
===

Claire Fisher: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to Carried Far, Far Away, a podcast project where we are watching and reading everything that Carrie Fisher did during her short life and storied career. I'm Claire Fisher, 

Katie Marinello: I'm Katie Marinello

Claire Fisher: and today we are talking about Under the Rainbow. 

Katie Marinello: under the rainbow. I'm beginning to think it's a conspiracy. 

Claire Fisher: What is?

Katie Marinello: They just keep putting her in these quote unquote Yeah

Claire Fisher: Yeah. I wonder who her agent was at the time, I really do, because, 

Claire Fisher: She was pretty young and not very well mentally, but you'd think she'd get some advice. Yeah. 

Katie Marinello: Princess Leia. Her second movie was the movie and this is?

Katie Marinello: all They could find for her 

Claire Fisher: Alright, before we, bash it, maybe we should tell the audience what movie this is, Katie. Would you like to give them a plot summary, 

Katie Marinello: 54 seconds 

Katie Marinello: would like nothing more.

Katie Marinello: Carrie Fisher plays Annie Clarke a long suffering [00:01:00] employee at 

Katie Marinello: MGM. Louis 

Katie Marinello: B. Mayer says she will finally get a promotion if she manages the little actors who are going to be munchkins 

Katie Marinello: in The 

Katie Marinello: Wizard of Oz. she checks them all into the Culver Hotel, which has recently been abandoned by its owner so he can have an affair with the front 

Katie Marinello: desk clerk and left 

Katie Marinello: with his incompetent nephew.

Katie Marinello: Also checking in is a group of Japanese photographers, a Nazi spy who also happens to be a little person, a Japanese spy, a secret service agent named Bruce Thorpe, an Australian duke and duchess, and a suspiciously shape shifting dog. Mistaken identities abound as a map with key American information goes missing, and something like comedy ensues?

Katie Marinello: And just when you're not sure if they will be able to resolve the plot, they don't. The whole thing is revealed to be a dream of Rolo Sweet, a little person who was seen at the beginning of the movie climbing onto a roof to fix the radio cable at the homeless shelter where he lives, and taking a terrible fall. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, two things. First of all, you meant Austrian Duke and Duchess. 

Katie Marinello: did I say, 

Claire Fisher: Yeah. 

Katie Marinello: Whoops. I wrote Austrian. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, second of all, [00:02:00] yeah, so this plot makes no sense, right? And the reason is supposed to be that it's a dream sequence, but it also makes no sense as a dream. Because how could anybody in 1938 dream about the Munchkins costumes from The Wizard of Oz when the movie hadn't been made? Or 

Claire Fisher: like, Specific lines, we're off to see the wizard, that movie had not been made. Or how could he dream the stereotype 

Claire Fisher: of Japanese tourists taking too many photos? stereotype that wouldn't exist until the 1980s. Like, how could he dream that in 1938? So it doesn't make sense as a dream. It doesn't make sense as an actual plot. 

Claire Fisher: Nothing here makes 

Katie Marinello: the Wizard of 

Katie Marinello: Oz doesn't make sense dream, right? It's possibly Because in the book it's not a dream but 

Katie Marinello: she, 

Katie Marinello: Apparently dreamed scenes that were just between the Wicked Witch and 

Katie Marinello: the Flying Monkeys, it's Yes. 

Claire Fisher: No, Wizard of Oz makes sense as a dream because the entire plot revolves around her. Even when she's not in the scene, she's dreaming of the Witch 

Claire Fisher: [00:03:00] talking about her. And

Katie Marinello: But I don't ever dream things don't, where I'm not in 

Katie Marinello: the scene. 

Claire Fisher: I do 

Claire Fisher: sometimes. 

Katie Marinello: However, The Wizard of Oz is a perfect movie. I will

Katie Marinello: stand by that 

Katie Marinello: 100%. It's probably 

Katie Marinello: It's held up better.

Claire Fisher: The 75 years that

Claire Fisher: in existence, then movies that, for example, were released in 1981. Now, was anything going on in 1981 that we should know about before discussing this that things were going on in 1981. So specifically, this was released July 31st, 1981. The number one 

Claire Fisher: movie in America was Superman II. 

Claire Fisher: Two days before this 

Claire Fisher: movie came out, The future King Charles III had 

Claire Fisher: married 

Claire Fisher: Diana Spencer in 

Claire Fisher: front of a worldwide television audience of over 750 million people. 

Katie Marinello: And they all lived happily ever 

Claire Fisher: Ha. 

Katie Marinello: that worked out for 

Claire Fisher: for pop culture reference, this same [00:04:00] month, The Great Muppet Caper was doing pretty well. 

Katie Marinello: Ooh, love that 

Claire Fisher: And as was Arthur, another comedy movie, so There were good comedies out. Arthur is good. It's got Liza Minnelli, in it. It's, um. yeah, other good comedies of the year, Stripes. It's a 

Claire Fisher: military comedy. Cannonball Run, 

Claire Fisher: which is an action comedy, 



Katie Marinello: Have

Katie Marinello: we mentioned on The podcast yet that 

Katie Marinello: I actually don't watch movies, ever? This 

Claire Fisher: because you don't watch movies 

Claire Fisher: but you just watched Under the Rainbow. 

Katie Marinello: I know. So this, this podcast has made me watch more movies in the 

Katie Marinello: past When did we start? 

Katie Marinello: Like, six months ago? 

Katie Marinello: Fi four months 

Claire Fisher: Whenever we 

Katie Marinello: I've more movies past four months 

Katie Marinello: than I have 

Katie Marinello: probably watched for years and years. 

Katie Marinello: So 

Katie Marinello: tell me all these wonderful other pop culture references that I could be like, well, 

Katie Marinello: [00:05:00] heard of that. 

Katie Marinello: But I have seen The Great 

Katie Marinello: Muppet Caper and I do like movie. Oh, 

Claire Fisher: We have a Carried Far Far Away first. 

Claire Fisher: Fans of the 12 and 24 Network, particularly the Kurt Locker, are probably aware that no 

Claire Fisher: Kurt Locker show is complete without a review from Claire's 

Claire Fisher: mom. Well, Claire's 

Claire Fisher: Mom, Claire, And yours has a review of this movie. 

Katie Marinello: She's seen it. 

Claire Fisher: I know, So 

Claire Fisher: I know, right? 

Katie Marinello: Guys, she's the one who thinks that Yoda was

Katie Marinello: in Star Wars Episode 4 

Katie Marinello: This woman does not hold on to these pop culture memories. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, earlier today I was over at our mother's house, boiling the sap from her maple tree in hopes of maple syrup. 

Katie Marinello: for reference, Claire and my mother live in 1885. 


Claire Fisher: So as we sat [00:06:00] boiling the sap and 

Claire Fisher: reviewing our plans for the evening, 

Claire Fisher: We were going to watch Tracker and then we were going to have this podcast and my husband said, Claire, you're going to have a late night. And I said, how much is there to really say about Under the Rainbow? And mom said, yeah, there's not that much. And I was like, wait. Father, you've seen Under the Rainbow? For a carried far, far away first, listener. listener Claire's mom has sent in her 

Claire Fisher: review. She remembers going to 

Claire Fisher: see this movie for about a dollar and 25 cents,

Katie Marinello: That's about as much as it's worth. 

Claire Fisher: she defended that as you could find that in the couch cushions at the time. So going out to the movies wasn't as big of an investment.

Claire Fisher: She remembers it as colorful, but not funny. She recalled that it was based on rumors that filming The Wizard of Oz was very difficult. And she remembers thinking, quote, If this is true, it isn't funny. If it's not true, it's wrong that they're making [00:07:00] it funny. Unquote. 

Katie Marinello: Wow. That's, 

Katie Marinello: that sums 

Katie Marinello: it up for me. 

Katie Marinello: Mom's review reminded me of this. So has a 0 percent rating 

Katie Marinello: on Rotten Tomatoes. 


Katie Marinello: It received extremely negative reviews. Many of which condemned the psych gags 

Katie Marinello: involving little people.

Katie Marinello: So, I mean, 

Katie Marinello: the, the stereotypes around little people 

Katie Marinello: Were alive and

Katie Marinello: well in, this movie and it was nominated for two Razzies.

Claire Fisher: Rassi's already existed. 

Katie Marinello: the

Katie Marinello: Razzies already 

Katie Marinello: existed 

Katie Marinello: the film was nominated for Razzie 

Katie Marinello: awards 

Katie Marinello: for worst musical score 

Katie Marinello: and 

Katie Marinello: worst supporting actor 

Katie Marinello: for Billy Barty 

Katie Marinello: who played the little Nazi.

Katie Marinello: Um, 

Claire Fisher: Okay, the little 

Claire Fisher: Nazi. Can I just say. There's no way a little 

Claire Fisher: person

Katie Marinello: know! 

Claire Fisher: was spying for the 

Claire Fisher: Nazis when the Nazis killed so many little people that a generation later Willy [00:08:00] Wonka and the Chocolate Factory had trouble casting Oompa Loompas because there weren't enough little people living in West Germany. 

Katie Marinello: Yes, I also wrote that down. Not funny. 

Katie Marinello: But I did write 

Katie Marinello: that 

Katie Marinello: down. I was like, they experimented on

Katie Marinello: them. They're not going to send one As a spy, but okay. Should we talk a little bit 

Katie Marinello: about. The plot.

Katie Marinello: Cause I'm sure most people have not seen this movie. And, you shouldn't. 

Claire Fisher: No, 

Claire Fisher: don't watch this. Bryan defended it. He said there were 

Claire Fisher: the bones of like a funnier movie, But they didn't make a funny movie. This 

Katie Marinello: I As I was watching it, I see 

Katie Marinello: where the funny 

Katie Marinello: was supposed to 

Katie Marinello: be. 



Claire Fisher: Yeah, it just didn't come across as actually funny 

Claire Fisher: Chevy Chase who starred in this movie. 

Claire Fisher: called it one of the worst movies ever made. Carrie Fisher, who was in this went one better and said it was one of the worst she'd ever been in. 

Claire Fisher: The copy I found to watch was released on 

Claire Fisher: [00:09:00] DVD through the Warner Archive Collection, which is specifically for obscure movies. And this DVD was so basic, it didn't even have scene selection. There was just a note on the homepage saying press forward and back on your remote to navigate through this movie at 10 minute intervals. 

Katie Marinello: 10 minute intervals!?

Katie Marinello: Holy 

Claire Fisher: So every time I wanted to pause to write down a quote, and then we had to find our place again. We were just sitting there clicking around. And by the way, Bryan is building us a DVD player because, he knows I'm watching lots of Carrie Fisher movies. We're also trying to do like a Star Trek watch through and our current DVD player keeps overheating and we're trying not to spend money with corporations right now for important political reasons. So he's in the basement building us a DVD player and I'm upstairs fast forwarding and rewinding looking for the quotes in this stupid movie.

Katie Marinello: For context my in law lives in 1985 [00:10:00] 

Claire Fisher: And the third piece of trivia I will mention is that one of the little people who was in this movie had actually been a munchkin 

Katie Marinello: The Wizard of Oz, yeah, I had that written 

Katie Marinello: down too. I, and did 

Katie Marinello: you recognize Because 

Katie Marinello: I 

Katie Marinello: clocked Yeah, it was the mayor of 

Katie Marinello: Munchkin 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: City. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: like clocked it and then I was like, okay, it 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: makes sense because they're getting into costume. Because at first 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: when they said they were getting into costume, they were all wearing little suits still And I was , very confused.

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: But then they did slowly

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: start to get into the costumes that 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: you know from the Wizard of 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Oz. And, but I was like, Oh, he looks just like him. And I, was right. 

Claire Fisher: He said he 

Claire Fisher: regretted making this movie because it tarnished the reputation of the previous movie and completely misrepresented what making The Wizard of Oz was like 

Katie Marinello: Well, I have very good for Jerry 

Katie Marinello: Marrin 

Claire Fisher: seen 

Katie Marinello: Uh, no, it



Claire Fisher: Do they 

Katie Marinello: Because nobody saw this 

Katie Marinello: movie. 

Claire Fisher: No one has seen [00:11:00] this movie 

Katie Marinello: Your great Seminal Work 

Katie Marinello: is still the most perfect movie ever made. And this movie 

Katie Marinello: has 

Katie Marinello: made no 

Katie Marinello: cultural 

Claire Fisher: Do they still show the Wizard of Oz on TV once a year? 

Katie Marinello: Of course, Isn't Night movie 

Katie Marinello: Oh. Well, it's some other 

Katie Marinello: station's version of the Sunday Night Movie. 

Claire Fisher: I mean, I teach The Wizard of Oz as a text to my English language 

Claire Fisher: learners because of how it introduced idioms like, we're off to see The wizard And pay no 

Claire Fisher: attention to the man behind the Kurtain. I have built lesson plans around The Wizard of Oz. I would not touch this with a ten foot pole.

Katie Marinello: Any good lines it had came from The Wizard of Oz. And honestly, I thought they should 

Katie Marinello: have had 

Katie Marinello: more them. Like, there was not as much reference to The Wizard of 

Katie Marinello: Oz as I

Katie Marinello: thought there should be 

Katie Marinello: if 

Katie Marinello: you're trying to make a comedy out of the making of The Wizard of [00:12:00] Oz 

Claire Fisher: But if it's actually the dream of someone who's never seen The Wizard of Oz, You can't include lines from The Wizard of Oz. 

Katie Marinello: Sure you can, because The whole thing is that everything's gonna inspire the 

Katie Marinello: movie. Is that what they were going I think so, because the dog clearly 

Katie Marinello: Toto, 

Katie Marinello: and, 

Katie Marinello: movie's already cast and written, but I don't think we too hard about the dream logic, because The Wizard of Oz is a 

Katie Marinello: perfect movie. It is also the only story 

Katie Marinello: ever in the 

Katie Marinello: history of storytelling 

Katie Marinello: to successfully pull off, it was all just a dream. 

Katie Marinello: Any other movie.

Katie Marinello: book, whatever that 

Katie Marinello: does that it's 

Katie Marinello: a cop out, I would love 

Katie Marinello: if you guys would send me emails telling me I'm wrong 

Katie Marinello: because, we don't get any emails and we'd love that. But I 

Katie Marinello: can't think of a single one where 

Katie Marinello: that's successfully done and It was very poorly done here. So let's talk about [00:13:00] The in between part. 

Katie Marinello: As if it's its own 

Katie Marinello: story. I think if we try to, put it into Dreamlogic, we're just going to drive ourselves crazy.

Claire Fisher: Okay. 

Claire Fisher: Tell us about the actors, besides Carrie Fisher, who are in this movie, 

Katie Marinello: Surprisingly a lot of actors, because there are quite a few characters. 

Claire Fisher: There are a lot of people in this 

Claire Fisher: movie. 

Katie Marinello: there are a lot of people in this movie. And, 

Katie Marinello: obviously, 

Katie Marinello: And by obviously, I mean, this 

Katie Marinello: is a horrible, horrible

Katie Marinello: thing. There's no information about 

Katie Marinello: the other little people in the movie. 

Katie Marinello: But 



Katie Marinello: figure everyone would start with Chevy 

Katie Marinello: Chase.

Katie Marinello: I don't like Chevy Chase. So I'm going to 

Katie Marinello: start with 

Katie Marinello: Kirk Hubbert, 

Katie Marinello: who plays Rollo Sweet, 

Katie Marinello: who is 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: the 

Katie Marinello: dreamer, Who dreamed this movie.

Katie Marinello: I 

Katie Marinello: guess , he's best known for the roles of Luther on the American television show, 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: the 

Katie Marinello: Charmings and Brown 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Tom in the Ridley 

Katie Marinello: Scott film legend, 

Katie Marinello: his 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: struggles as an 

Katie Marinello: actor after under the 

Katie Marinello: rainbow and Magnum PI were chronicled part of a book

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: NBC's 1983 to 

Katie Marinello: 1984 [00:14:00] TV season called the sweeps behind the scenes and network TV. And that's all there was really about 

Katie Marinello: him, sadly. about Chevy Chase. Fun fact, I actually met him in a restaurant once. 

Claire Fisher: Really? 

Katie Marinello: yeah.

Katie Marinello: My

Katie Marinello: friend's parents owned the restaurant in the Hamptons 

Katie Marinello: and we went there for 

Katie Marinello: dinner. And his mother introduced me to 

Katie Marinello: Chevy Chase, 

Katie Marinello: but I didn't really 

Katie Marinello: know who that was, so I wasn't

Katie Marinello: really 

Katie Marinello: that 

Katie Marinello: excited.

Claire Fisher: Okay, 

Katie Marinello: it's just so funny. Like last SNL and, then I watched the SNL 50th

Katie Marinello: anniversary special. And

Katie Marinello: now we're talking about Chevy Chase. so 

Katie Marinello: he was considered, so 

Katie Marinello: interestingly, 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: dan Aykroyd, 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: John Belushi and Chevy Chase, all of their Wikipedia's page say they were the breakout cast member from the first season of Saturday Night Live. the 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Um,

Claire Fisher: Okay, 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Chevy Chase was the first Weekend Update, host though, which is important. 


katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Bill Murray 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: made him, I think, fourth [00:15:00] best in his countdown during the 50th anniversary. then he became a leading man, and I will say that he's much more 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: handsome in this movie than I've ever seen him be.

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: And he starred in some of the most successful comedies, films of 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: all time, including Caddyshack. 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Five National Lampoon vacation 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: films. Did you know there were five of them? 

Claire Fisher: Probably could have 

Claire Fisher: guessed that there were five of them, if I had actually counted them 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: fingers.

Katie Marinello: I know him best 

Katie Marinello: as Pierce Hawthorne in the

Katie Marinello: NBC 

Katie Marinello: sitcom community. he famously left under unpleasant circumstances. I always got the impression that he just didn't get along anybody, but. 

Katie Marinello: I find a ton to back that up in Wikipedia and I didn't feel like it was worth deeply into. I have this bad feeling about

Claire Fisher: in 

Claire Fisher: this movie he's a Secret Service agent who's like super bad at his job

Katie Marinello: So bad at his job. And it's I don't think we're supposed to know that he's bad at his job. It's not like funny. 

Katie Marinello: It's 

Katie Marinello: not like he's a bumbling 

Katie Marinello: secret service agent. 

Katie Marinello: He's just like horrifically bad at [00:16:00] his Eve Arden. 

Katie Marinello: She plays the Duchess. She performed in leading and supporting roles for 

Katie Marinello: nearly six decades. 

Katie Marinello: She

Katie Marinello: received an 

Katie Marinello: Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actress for her role in 

Katie Marinello: Mildred 

Katie Marinello: Pierce in 1945. 

Katie Marinello: where 

Claire Fisher: where I've seen her. 

Katie Marinello: She was also known for being in films noir. she was 

Katie Marinello: So Pierce one of them. The Unfaithful, The Arnullo Affair, 

Katie Marinello: Whiplash, and Anatomy of a Murder. She then became, 

Katie Marinello: A television 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: star for 

Katie Marinello: a while. 

Katie Marinello: She won a primetime 

Katie Marinello: for 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Outstanding 

Katie Marinello: Lead Actress for Our Miss and the one place I think I would have seen her is she was school principal 

Katie Marinello: in Greece, in Greece too. 

Katie Marinello: John Mayer who 

Katie Marinello: plays the Duke 

Katie Marinello: Has like nothing. 

Katie Marinello: So she's The sixth decade actress and he has two lines on Wikipedia. He's best known actually 

Katie Marinello: as a stage actor for 

Katie Marinello: his roles in quote, scandalous, dark comedies, a playwright, Joe Orton, for which three Tony award [00:17:00] nominations. 

Katie Marinello: Robert Donner, oh, I didn't even mention the Assassin. I don't care. 

Claire Fisher: There's an assassin in this movie. He's been repeatedly trying to kill the 

Claire Fisher: Duke for decades 

Claire Fisher: his

Katie Marinello: father killed his father or 

Claire Fisher: Something like that. It is not really satisfactorily 

Claire Fisher: explained because again, this isn't really a plot, 

Katie Marinello: Okay, so his first role 

Katie Marinello: was an uncredited part in a John Wayne western, Rio Bravo. Then he was in the sequels, El Dorado and Rio Lobo. 

Katie Marinello: His 

Katie Marinello: best known television roles, was as Exedor on Mork Mindy. I'm pretty sure he was in like an episode, 

Katie Marinello: but he became an 

Katie Marinello: audience favorite because he was, As funny as Robin Williams, like he was able to spar comedically with Robin Williams again, 

Katie Marinello: I'm sure he is.

Katie Marinello: This 

Katie Marinello: was not the place to showcase that talent, 

Katie Marinello: Billy Barty, our Razzie 

Katie Marinello: nominee. 

Katie Marinello: He appeared in actually [00:18:00] two Elvis Presley films. 

Katie Marinello: And then in 1950s, 

Katie Marinello: he became a 

Katie Marinello: television 

Katie Marinello: actor. 

Katie Marinello: Appearing regularly in the Spike Jones Ensemble 

Katie Marinello: and then in the early 

Katie Marinello: seventies. He appeared often in a variety of roles children's TV 

Katie Marinello: programs. he also founded the Little People of America organization to help people with dwarfism in 

Katie Marinello: 1957. 

Katie Marinello: He called upon people of short stature to join him at a get together in 

Katie Marinello: Reno, Nevada. 21 people showed up. 

Katie Marinello: And 

Katie Marinello: as of 2023, he had more than 7, 500

Katie Marinello: members, , in the that organization, and he is a star on the Hollywood 

Katie Marinello: fame. 

Claire Fisher: Good for him. 

Katie Marinello: Mako plays 

Katie Marinello: the Japanese spy, Nakamori, and he was a

Katie Marinello: Japanese American actor, and he just went by Mako, 

Katie Marinello: which I think is really cool. He was nominated for an 

Katie Marinello: Academy Award for best actor for his role 

Katie Marinello: as engine room worker Pohan 

Katie Marinello: in the film, the sand 

Katie Marinello: pebbles in 1966. 

Katie Marinello: was also, Admiral 

Katie Marinello: Isoroku 

Katie Marinello: Yamamoto in the epic drama of 

Katie Marinello: [00:19:00] Pearl 

Katie Marinello: Harbor, 2001, that's the second time we've mentioned Pearl Harbor on this podcast, which again, never seen, but was, like the obsession of all my friends in middle school.

Katie Marinello: He died in 2006, role on screen was released in 2007. 

Katie Marinello: And he was the voice of master in the film, TMNT, 

Katie Marinello: which stands 

Claire Fisher: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. 

Katie Marinello: he got nomination for being in Steven Sondheim's 1976 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: Broadway 

Katie Marinello: musical Pacific Overtures, never heard of And. 

Katie Marinello: He was Mr. 

Katie Marinello: Yamaguchi in

Katie Marinello: Rugrats in 

Katie Marinello: Paris, the 

Katie Marinello: movie. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, one we've actually seen.

Katie Marinello: I don't know that I've seen that 

Katie Marinello: but yeah, 

Claire Fisher: Seen half of 

Claire Fisher: it on TV 

Claire Fisher: once. 

Katie Marinello: really 

Katie Marinello: interesting career, that one. Pat 

Katie Marinello: McCormick plays Tiny. 

Katie Marinello: Who's that? 

Claire Fisher: He's the fixer at the hotel who keeps, hiding the 

Claire Fisher: bodies. 

Claire Fisher: I think it's get worse and worse and he says I wish I had the meat hook concession [00:20:00] around here, which I laughed at that and Bryan didn't get it. 

Katie Marinello: I did think that was a

Katie Marinello: snort out your nose kind of line. 

Katie Marinello: Okay. So Pat McCormick was an American actor and 

Katie Marinello: comedy He actually went Harvard law school, but decided to become an advertising executive 

Katie Marinello: instead ended up 

Katie Marinello: writing jokes television and standup comedians. Which I, 

Katie Marinello: that's 

Katie Marinello: one of those lines that I'm like, I just need more 

Katie Marinello: information 

Claire Fisher: You're missing a step here. Yeah, 

Katie Marinello: He 

Katie Marinello: wrote 

Katie Marinello: for, 

Katie Marinello: performers as Red Skelton, Phyllis 

Katie Marinello: Diller, Johnny Carson, well shows such as Get Smart, The Jack Parr 

Katie Marinello: Show, and 

Katie Marinello: Danny Kaye Show. March 26, 1974, Johnny Carson's Show monologue was interrupted by McCormick streaking across stage, done on a bet 

Katie Marinello: the rest 

Katie Marinello: the writing staff. 

Katie Marinello: Again, that there, funnier 

Katie Marinello: than this movie. 

Claire Fisher: It's like, a time in the 70s where people would just 

Claire Fisher: freak on television and I feel like we've lost something as a [00:21:00] country. 

Claire Fisher: We 

Katie Marinello: used 

Katie Marinello: to be a society! 

Claire Fisher: We used to 

Claire Fisher: have these things happen, right? You've seen 

Claire Fisher: the clip of the Oscars, and

Katie Marinello: Of course, yeah, 

Katie Marinello: there's whole podcast of You're Wrong About, that 

Katie Marinello: moment.

Claire Fisher: We used to do fun things in this country, and now when people get in trouble on television, it's for protesting. 

Katie Marinello: right. So the last one, I wasn't gonna include Henry because I feel like 

Katie Marinello: a non character, but this is 

Katie Marinello: one. 

Katie Marinello: One of the only 

Katie Marinello: actors appearing in this film who's still alive, and two, 

Katie Marinello: has 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: a 

Katie Marinello: connection to one Of your favorites. 

Claire Fisher: He's the only one I recognized, Adam Arkin. is both a memorable guest turn on MacGyver and a recurring character on Northern Exposure.

Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. We also know 

Katie Marinello: him from The West Wing, where he 

Katie Marinello: was the trauma specialist and psychiatrist, Dr. Stanley Keyworth. 

Claire Fisher: Okay. 

Katie Marinello: he treats 

Katie Marinello: For 

Katie Marinello: his post traumatic stress disorder and the president for daddy [00:22:00] issues. He was also nominated for a primetime Emmy 

Katie Marinello: award for outstanding guest actor for an episode of Frasier.

Katie Marinello: And known for his 

Katie Marinello: directing work, including episodes of Grey's Anatomy, Boston Legal, Ally McBeal, Masters of Sex, and he won an Emmy directing the Showtime television film, 

Katie Marinello: My 

Katie Marinello: Louisiana Scott. 

Katie Marinello: And that's it. 

Katie Marinello: There were a lot 

Katie Marinello: more, but 

Katie Marinello: that's, um, those were the 

Katie Marinello: ones that I thought we needed to go 

Katie Marinello: over.

Claire Fisher: So since this isn't really a plot, I thought that instead of like a plot recap we could just talk about the running gags and like which ones work and which ones don't.

Katie Marinello: Okay, let's talk about the ones that first 

Katie Marinello: because it's a short list. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, it worked for me that 

Claire Fisher: they kept 

Claire Fisher: replacing Strudel with a new dog. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, 

Katie Marinello: but I cannot believe they killed the dog. 

Katie Marinello: There 

Katie Marinello: are entire websites dedicated to does the dog die? The dog dies,

Katie Marinello: guys, in the 

Katie Marinello: first 30 minutes of 

Katie Marinello: this 

Claire Fisher: And then more dogs die through it. [00:23:00] 

Katie Marinello: the 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, so the gag here is the Duchess is very nearsighted, and without her glasses on she can't recognize anybody. So whenever the Duke 

Claire Fisher: accidentally kills Strudel, 

Claire Fisher: He gets another dog. 

Katie Marinello: Any kind. 

Katie Marinello: It more and more, 



Katie Marinello: Uh goes on 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: because the dog looks less and less like the original dog that we meet. And 

Claire Fisher: as it turns out, The dog that we met was the Twelfth? 

It's established early on that was Strudel of the Thirteenth. 


Duke: don't feel bad about Strudel the 13th, because here is Strudel the 14th. 

Thorpe: Oh, how did they all die? 

Duke: Oh, the first Strudel died by assassination. My father fell on him. I have lived in constant fear ever since. I can understand that. What about the rest of the Strudels? Oh, there were some drownings, there were some tramplings, [00:24:00] shootings.

Duke: Oh, and one suicide.


Claire Fisher: and then over the course of the movie, one dog has a quote unquote heart attack after being poisoned. The Duke says, Two heart attacks at the same time?

Claire Fisher: One of those heart attacks must have been meant for me! 

Katie Marinello: Which was true. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, another dog's ball bounces over the balcony of 

Claire Fisher: the top floor and the dog follows it over. That's the hardest I laughed in the entire movie, how off the wall that was. 

Katie Marinello: Claire is going to go 

Katie Marinello: down as the, podcast dog hater. 

Claire Fisher: No, this is the humor of the movie, 

Claire Fisher: the 

Claire Fisher: that the dog is falling, is dying, right? 

Katie Marinello: it is a bold choice to the dog dying 

Katie Marinello: a key point of humor, because again, 


There's entire websites dedicated to dies and people won't watch movies where the dog dies. 

Claire Fisher: By the end of the 

Claire Fisher: movie, we're up to Strudel the 

Claire Fisher: [00:25:00] 16th.

Claire Fisher: And, Chevy Chase's character, Thorpe, claims to the assassin and the two spies, the Japanese spy and the Nazi spy, that he 

Claire Fisher: has hidden the map that they've all been chasing in the locket that's around Strudel's 

Claire Fisher: neck. Which leads to everybody chasing the dog, except that that exact moment, Louis B.

Claire Fisher: Mayer 

Claire Fisher: is auditioning dogs to play Toto. so 10 dogs, plus 150 little people, are stampeding through the lot. They go through the sets of some pretty famous movies, including God with the Wind, 

Katie Marinello: did like the Clark Gable line. 

Katie Marinello: They all 

Katie Marinello: run through 

Katie Marinello: and, one of the little people is underneath 

Katie Marinello: O'Hara's, hoop skirt, trying to catch the dog.

Katie Marinello: and Clark 

Katie Marinello: Gable says, 




Claire Fisher: for me, the best line was, 
[00:26:00] 


Claire Fisher: but it's actually

Claire Fisher: ten 

Claire Fisher: dogs and a hundred and fifty little people.

Katie Marinello: Yes. 

Claire Fisher: It turns out Strudel didn't have the map at all. So that whole sequence, Totally 

Katie Marinello: Totally 

Claire Fisher: But yeah, the the dogs keep dying then there's 

Claire Fisher: a chase scene with a bunch of dogs. 

Katie Marinello: Now, when the first

Katie Marinello: Strudel 

Katie Marinello: was revealed to 

Katie Marinello: have died because someone fell on top of him, I did have a thought.

Katie Marinello: That this would be an excellent time for you to tell 

Katie Marinello: peacock story. 

Claire Fisher: Oh god, the peacock story. 

Katie Marinello: the peacock story. 

Claire Fisher: You really want me to digress from the podcast to tell the peacock 

Katie Marinello: I don't know, I just wrote excellent excuse tell peacock story. 

Claire Fisher: I'm not telling the peacock story in the middle of telling about this movie.

Katie Marinello: fine. Maybe make it 

Katie Marinello: bonus content at some point. 

Claire Fisher: not going to interrupt the podcast with Peacock story. We have [00:27:00] to talk about this actual movie. Running gags. Carrie Fisher and Chevy Chase keep having meet cutes, 

Claire Fisher: which in, a more traditional movie 

Claire Fisher: would lead to them having a relationship. They bump into each other three times in a train station, and then she has to ask him for help at the hotel because, her past room reservations got lost, and she has to try to ask him.

Claire Fisher: They get locked in a freezer together, but, no matter what happens, they don't start a relationship. 

Katie Marinello: Was that what it 

Katie Marinello: was supposed to be 

Claire Fisher: I assume so. That's 

Katie Marinello: I thought it was just that 

Katie Marinello: she kept taking her clothes off. 

Claire Fisher: Okay, that, alright, running gag, Carrie Fisher keeps taking your clothes off, let's talk 

Claire Fisher: about that. 

Claire Fisher: to be in a state of undress like kind of a 

There's a 

Claire Fisher: scene where, He is looking for the spies, because he thinks they're trying to assassinate the Duke. They aren't, they're actually trying to find a map that was accidentally put in a copy of the script of The Wizard of

Claire Fisher: Oz. And Thorpe ends up coming into her room, 

Claire Fisher: and she thinks he's a rapist, so [00:28:00] She screams rape, and he jumps on top of her, covers 

Claire Fisher: her mouth, and shouts, No, no 

Claire Fisher: rape. 

Claire Fisher: This is not funny. This running gag does not work. 

Katie Marinello: even remotely funny. 

Claire Fisher: and when she stops screaming, she says, Oh, and I suppose that's your gun. And he says, No, I wear a shoulder holster. 

Claire Fisher: Which 

Claire Fisher: means he got turned on by a woman who was screaming rape. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, Not funny.



Claire Fisher: However, immediately after that, he asks her, Did anything unusual happen to you today? 

Katie Marinello: I wrote that one 

Katie Marinello: down too. 


Thorpe: Has anything, uh, unusual happened to you today? 

Clarke: Well, I've been dealing with 150 little actors. I haven't slept, I haven't eaten. I got into a wrestling match with the government. Rallo tells me someone's trying to steal my script. I haven't had time to change my dress.

Thorpe: Well, I can certainly help out with the dress part. 

Clarke: I'm sure you can. 

Katie Marinello: Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, Was there ever a time where people just talked like this? Certainly. 

Katie Marinello: Sexual 

Katie Marinello: banter is not new. [00:29:00] But 

Katie Marinello: In the movies it just seems Oh, there's a attractive woman and attractive man. Clearly he 

Katie Marinello: has to 

Katie Marinello: start hitting on her immediately, despite the fact that he is literally a member of the Secret Service who is 

Katie Marinello: charged with 

Katie Marinello: protecting a foreign dignitary and is doing a 

Katie Marinello: terrible job of it.



Claire Fisher: Where 

Claire Fisher: the her and her underpants really does get kind of 

Claire Fisher: funny is, she's in the kitchens trying to break up a party that some of the actors are throwing. When the Nazi 

Claire Fisher: spy starts a Sword fight with Rolo, they happen to be wearing the same costume. And the 

Claire Fisher: Nazi cuts her dress off so she's in her underpants and a bra. 


Bryan says a bunch of kids who had crushes on Carrie Fisher Absolutely made this their favorite movie as a result of the fact that then for about 20 minutes of the movie, she's in her underpants in a bra. 

Katie Marinello: Yeah, and it's not obscene. It's 

Like a short slip and a 

Katie Marinello: bra. It looks like it could be an outfit, but not. [00:30:00] 

Claire Fisher: The only thing is, this falls flat because she does nothing. She just stands there and watches a sword fight. She doesn't shout for 

Katie Marinello: react to it. doesn't 

Claire Fisher: to run. She doesn't try to defend her friend. She doesn't try to put clothes back on. She just stands there staring and then eventually gets trapped in a freezer. 

Katie Marinello: Right. 

Claire Fisher: Not funny. 

Katie Marinello: to the party. is that one of your running gags? 

Claire Fisher: so the things that are actually funnier than the plot is that in the background, the people who have been hired to play the munchkins are throwing increasingly rowdy parties all over this hotel. 

Katie Marinello: I didn't find it funny though. 

Katie Marinello: There's never any explanation for why

Katie Marinello: it's quite as raucous it I could understand they're like, Hey, we've never seen this many people who look like us before and get really excited 

Katie Marinello: or there's parties and then parties.

Katie Marinello: This is some, a team in Philadelphia either won or lost level a 

Katie Marinello: party. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, 

Claire Fisher: they're 

Katie Marinello: from the 

Katie Marinello: hanging other. [00:31:00] Yeah. Like 

Katie Marinello: literally. 

Claire Fisher: people are tying 

Claire Fisher: up Tiny apparently for sex games. 

Claire Fisher: Oh. 

Claire Fisher: Two people are carrying a third person who's, slung over a rail. Yeah, Adam Arkin is shouting, the chandelier cannot hold the weight of free people. 

Katie Marinello: I

Katie Marinello: always they make, 

Katie Marinello: on male rape Yeah, 

Katie Marinello: So that and that's a whole scene that, like, away from plot has 

Katie Marinello: nothing do with the plot.

Claire Fisher: Okay, nothing has anything to do with the because there is no plot. This is 

Katie Marinello: Right. 

Katie Marinello: Okay, it doesn't have anything to do with the Nazi spy, the Duke and the Duchess, Chevy Chase, Carrie Fisher, or the movie that they're trying to make.

Katie Marinello: It 

Katie Marinello: has nothing to do with any of that. 

Claire Fisher: No, 

Katie Marinello: just, like a gag, isn't it funny that 

Katie Marinello: little 

Katie Marinello: people might be like sexual, 

Claire Fisher: Tiny's running gag is that he keeps having to hide bodies because people keep dying at this hotel and with the manager out of 

Claire Fisher: town for the weekend, they're afraid to call the 

Claire Fisher: police. 

Katie Marinello: they don't want the 

Katie Marinello: bad publicity. the premise of this hotel is that it's been dead for a while, [00:32:00] right? There's been nobody coming in or out. 

Katie Marinello: And it is actually 

Katie Marinello: the 

Katie Marinello: hotel that the Munchkins did stay in. 

Claire Fisher: This is a real 

Claire Fisher: place?

Katie Marinello: This is a real hotel. It's called the Culver city or Culver hotel, 

Katie Marinello: close to the MGM lot. And parts movie were filmed at that 

Katie Marinello: hotel can you imagine give your permission for your beautiful hotel be part of a movie? And 

Katie Marinello: it's this 

Katie Marinello: yeah, 

Claire Fisher: movie where, the manager's on the chandelier looking down and says, 

Henry: Perfect. A midget posse. That's what was missing. 

Katie Marinello: that was 

Katie Marinello: Possibly the only line, 

Katie Marinello: I mean, 

Katie Marinello: obviously I don't approve of the language, 

Katie Marinello: but I did think his kind of, well, 

Katie Marinello: all right, going to lose my 

Katie Marinello: job anyway. 

Katie Marinello: Kind of throw up his hands. Like his lack of reaction started, made 

Katie Marinello: sense he made those, whereas like the other actor's lack 

Katie Marinello: [00:33:00] of reaction to literally 

Katie Marinello: anything 

Katie Marinello: to be just because they didn't know what was happening. 

Claire Fisher: The hotel staff being in over their head, kind of counts as a running gag. The elevator operator is totally nonplussed by everything that's happening around him. Including getting, shot at with a machine gun by the assassin. All he says is, I would have held the elevator, sir. But at one point, the little people have stolen the elevator's cable to hang decorations.

Claire Fisher: So when he tries to operate the elevator, it crashes into the basement. And when he climbs out, he is a little person. He's been compressed by the crash. And this reminded me of, there's a story in which, a tiger is chasing the protagonist, but the tiger runs so fast it overheats and melts into butter. That ending makes as much sense as this one. What else for running gags? Besides Japanese accents, ha. 

Katie Marinello: [00:34:00] Right. 

Claire Fisher: The pearl is in the river is supposed to be the spy's passphrase, but the duchess's pearl has fallen into some foie gras, and a different Japanese person says your pearl is in your liver. And those two are mistaken for each other. 

Katie Marinello: Terrible. Just stupid all around. 

Katie Marinello: What is the stereotype with Japanese tourists and photography? 

Claire Fisher: In the 1970s and 1980s, Japan was doing pretty well economically, and they were producing newer and more efficient cameras than ever before. Like point and shoot cameras. Tour groups from Japan 

Claire Fisher: started touring the world and taking lots of 

Claire Fisher: photos, in a way that, tourists of earlier generations couldn't do because photography used to be difficult. 

Claire Fisher: The stereotype of crowds of Japanese people standing around, taking pictures of things comes out of a 1980s thing and it inspired among other things. The 1st, the earliest Terry Pratchett [00:35:00] Discworld novels feature a guy who has the world's first camera. It runs with a little demon inside of it painting sketches.

Claire Fisher: And he wears bright hawaiian shirts and walks around having his demon paint sketches. It's a dated stereotype now because now everybody takes pictures of everything

Katie Marinello: the

Claire Fisher: all of the time. 

Katie Marinello: I remember being to it other spectrum, not funny end of the spectrum, in The Handmaid's Tale. There's a group of Japanese tourists who are visiting Gilead and taking pictures the handmaids. 

Claire Fisher: I remember it happening in real life that time you and I and grandmother and our great aunt and mom and dad and uncle Mike were trying to do a k turn in a bicycle surrey on the 

Claire Fisher: Santa Barbara boardwalk and a Japanese tour group took pictures. I've always wondered how many albums we ended up getting. 

Katie Marinello: That did happen.

Claire Fisher: Anyway, now that everybody takes pictures of everything all the time, this stereotype doesn't mean as 

Katie Marinello: So it [00:36:00] makes no sense in 1938 because they wouldn't have had cameras like 

Claire Fisher: And they wouldn't have had Japanese tourists like that, because Asian exclusion was still in effect, and there weren't really that many people traveling between Japan and the United States. 

Katie Marinello: Oh, yeah, good point. 

Claire Fisher: Also, Japan and the United States were on the point of going to war with one another, so why would there 

Claire Fisher: be 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, I don't know when that whole thing 

The reason why there are many 

Claire Fisher: Japanese tourists in the United States from the 70s onwards is that the US and Japan became very good friends. After we beat them in a war and occupied their country for a few years, and then somehow along the way, we. Became good friends. That's international diplomacy for you some days.

Katie Marinello: There's 

Katie Marinello: something sweet and 

Katie Marinello: almost kind of he was mean was coarse and unrefined. 

Claire Fisher: And he bombed 

Claire Fisher: two of our cities. 

Katie Marinello: Possibly without military tactics. 

Claire Fisher: [00:37:00] Yeah, not even mentioning the firebombing of Tokyo. So, in the 1930s, although some Japanese people had visited the United States, for example, as international students, or as diplomats, or as, business people, there certainly were not organized tour groups checking into the Culver Hotel 

Claire Fisher: with their cameras clicking 

Katie Marinello: Okay, but it California and there 

Katie Marinello: was sizable Japanese population in 

Claire Fisher: Japanese American population. 



Claire Fisher: They weren't Japanese tourists. This is the other thing. I don't know if this counts as a running gag or not, the politically incorrect language, stuff that was already politically incorrect in 1981. The name of the tour group is the Japanese Amateur Photographic Society. And the 

Claire Fisher: acronym is spelled out on the side of the 

Claire Fisher: bus.

Katie Marinello: Oh. Yeah, we don't have to 

Katie Marinello: Yeah 

Claire Fisher: I'm not going to say it.

Claire Fisher: out loud, 

Claire Fisher: y'all J A P S, y'all know what that means, 


Claire Fisher: So yeah, it doesn't make any sense in the context of when the movie is supposed to be set. [00:38:00] It was a joke in 1981, but I just don't think It's really that funny.

Katie Marinello: It's just not. 

But if I were a Japanese spy in the 80s, I certainly would make my camera into a gun. 

Claire Fisher: Sure. 

Katie Marinello: And so, I didn't hate that coming back. So the Japanese spy and the assassin. end up shooting each other, 

Katie Marinello: We didn't even mention that Hitler makes an appearance in 

Katie Marinello: this 

Claire Fisher: really was not expecting Hitler to be in this movie.

Katie Marinello: You never 

Katie Marinello: expect Hitler. 

Claire Fisher: No, you do expect Hitler if you're 

Claire Fisher: watching, Downfall, or Valkyrie, There are movies where having Hitler makes sense. 

Katie Marinello: this 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: is

Claire Fisher: This isn't one of

Katie Marinello: them. 

I don't know if this is a running gag, or just costuming, but all the bad people in this movie have a mustache, 

Katie Marinello: little person, has a Hitler mustache, And the assassin has like a

Katie Marinello: dastardly like goatee 

Katie Marinello: situation happening. 

Claire Fisher: It's not a great 

Claire Fisher: joke.[00:39:00] 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: a joke.

Claire Fisher: a joke. 

Katie Marinello: This is our second 

Katie Marinello: movie in a row 

Katie Marinello: with Nazis in it. And I feel it's, 

Claire Fisher: came up in the news this week, actually. 

Katie Marinello: Yeah. And I, I'm going to get deeper than we probably

Katie Marinello: should on this movie, but, we already talked about Asian Exclusion Act.


Katie Marinello: We used to 

katie--she-her-_1_02-23-2025_211126: make fun 

Katie Marinello: of Nazis a lot. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, we thought that by making fun of them we would defang them and they wouldn't come back. 

Katie Marinello: We all remember that the 

Katie Marinello: Germans were like the default.

Katie Marinello: Villain for a while in movie 

Katie Marinello: history. 

Katie Marinello: This is 

Katie Marinello: the second comedy 

Katie Marinello: quote 

Katie Marinello: unquote, that we've watched where 

Katie Marinello: the Nazis are like, 

Katie Marinello: A punchline. 

Katie Marinello: How do we feel about that in the 

Katie Marinello: year 2025 when the Nazis are making an truly impressive 

Katie Marinello: resurgence?

Claire Fisher: I think the world suffered from what I've heard called irony poisoning. 

Claire Fisher: Eventually, what we thought we were laughing 

Claire Fisher: at, turns out some people were using the jokes as a way to slip their actual 

Claire Fisher: ideology in 

Claire Fisher: and radicalize 

Katie Marinello: Reddit [00:40:00] thing. 

Claire Fisher: 4chan, 

Claire Fisher: 8chan, 8kun, the persistence of memes that were supposed to be making fun of things like white supremacy or, incel ideology.

Claire Fisher: Eventually, people who weren't in on the joke, or at least didn't see it as very funny adopted that symbolism and that messaging style to sincerely discuss things like eugenics, femicide. Another very dark, outcomes. I remember being a kid in the 90s mom and dad having to explain a little of the geopolitical context of Sound of Music, which when it was made World War 2 was within living memory.

Katie Marinello: Von Trapps have been in the 

Claire Fisher: country, less than 20 years at 

People remembered that Germany took over Austria and, some Austrians were okay with it. Including for a little while, Captain Von Trapp, until he realized where this was going. Famously, he rips up the swastika flag when he realizes he can't go along with this after all, I remember being a little kid and my [00:41:00] parents explaining a little 

Claire Fisher: bit of the context here, who the Nazis were, why we hate them so much. And that they still exist, 

Claire Fisher: but they weren't strong anymore and there weren't very many left. And so we didn't have to be afraid of them anymore. Which is the speech your parents give you if you're the kind of kid who has a history of not sleeping after watching movies. Granted, I think I was six at the time of this conversation, and then I was in school, reading Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. a book written 

Claire Fisher: a movie that scared the crap out of 

The book is much different than the movie! It's actually much funnier than the movie, and it inspired, my most favorite exchange ever with Mom, where I told her that the kids are being kidnapped and the car wakes up the parents by going, Ooga, ooga!

Claire Fisher: She said, if you're ever being kidnapped and you make that noise, I'm gonna let them take you. That's, [00:42:00] my favorite mom punchline of

Claire Fisher: all 

Katie Marinello: was my God. 

Claire Fisher: This was more than 25 years ago and I love that line that's a great line anyway, when we were discussing Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, I was in the advanced reader group of second grade, which was literally 

Claire Fisher: just me and this little boy named Louis Cohen. And so our teacher was talking to just the two of us about whether we thought this book was scary. And Lewis 

Claire Fisher: Cohen said, I'm not scared of things that aren't real. And she said, well, what are you scared of And she said Nazis. And I was like, Nazis? But there 

Claire Fisher: aren't that many Nazis left. We don't have to be scared of the Nazis anymore, Lewis Cohen. even then I knew that there was a difference because he was Jewish 

Claire Fisher: and I am 

Claire Fisher: little blonde girl 

Claire Fisher: telling 

Claire Fisher: the Jewish boy not to be 

Claire Fisher: the 

Claire Fisher: of the Nazis because they're gone. It turns out they're not. 

Katie Marinello: Nope. They were reproducing this whole time and, uh, now they run our government. 

Claire Fisher: Nazis are still [00:43:00] stupid, they're still bumbling, they're still idiots, they're still worth making fun of. But it's harder to laugh now that you realize all those 

Claire Fisher: years that we were laughing, they were 

Rebuilding. 

Katie Marinello: They're not calling 

Katie Marinello: themselves the American Nazi Party, they're 

Katie Marinello: themselves Republicans.

Claire Fisher: The American Nazi Party worked very hard to come up with a version of their message that

Claire Fisher: Just seemed like it was anti communist, just seemed like it was pro family values, seemed platable to a segment of the Republican party, the same segment that, benefited from Resistance to desegregation and now we have a party that's openly racist as part of its platform. 

Claire Fisher: And making the 

Claire Fisher: Nazi salute. Turns out you don't have to wear a swastika to be a 

Claire Fisher: Nazi. Also turns out the Nazis look a lot like everybody else. 

Katie Marinello: They don't all have mustaches. It's 

Claire Fisher: Yeah. And that even inspired a line in [00:44:00] Inglourious Basterds, which is now like a 16 year old movie, where a Nazi foot soldier says he's gonna burn his uniform when the war is over. A Brad Pitt's character says, we don't like people who burn their uniforms. We like to know who the Nazis are. And carves a swastika into his face.

Claire Fisher: I would like some advance warning if you're going to be a Nazi. 

Claire Fisher: So I wish they were all wearing 

Claire Fisher: their uniforms.

Katie Marinello: Okay, so This got

Claire Fisher: Listen, this is a pop culture podcast. That doesn't mean it'll always be just funny.

Katie Marinello: We are both 

Katie Marinello: very strongly of the opinion that pop culture is real life that our movies tell us a lot about what we're going through and we're still about

Katie Marinello: seven chronological years away from my birth. So we're learning a little bit about, where the culture 

Katie Marinello: was at before we were around to see 

Claire Fisher: So what this tells me about 1981 is a couple of things that first of all, the U. S. was [00:45:00] pretty smug about having won World War II. 

Claire Fisher: The 

Claire Fisher: U. S. was pretty smug about having, rehabilitated Japan 

Claire Fisher: into a friend.

Claire Fisher: And the U. S. was very much not ready to admit that you need more of a premise to a movie 

Claire Fisher: than just 

Claire Fisher: many little people are in the same place.

Katie Marinello: So did you come across 

Katie Marinello: anything about little people and little people's rights as you were researching trivia for this movie? 

Claire Fisher: Just what you found about one of the stars here being a founder of little people of America, 

Katie Marinello: it's still one of the minority groups that's still kind of used as a punchline. 

Claire Fisher: Yeah, to an extent. I 

Claire Fisher: think that I I may be misquoting this but one source I saw said that the inspiration for the movie under the rainbow was somebody saying that when they made the Wizard of Oz, that was the most little people who had ever been gathered in one place, ever.

Claire Fisher: And it was because Louis B. Mayer did

Claire Fisher: have people going all over the country looking for people who would play [00:46:00] Munchkins, now, you could just hire children, but that wasn't the vision that Louis B. Mayer had, And Louis B. Meyer is also responsible for insisting that it turned out to be, it was all just a dream, even though in the book, Oz was a real place. 

Claire Fisher: Interesting. 

I recently was stuck in a doctor's office waiting room where they had TLC on and there was like a little people big world. 

Katie Marinello: was going to bring up Little People Big World. Yeah. 

Claire Fisher: I found myself stuck watching it and I was kind of like, aren't freak shows illegal? You know that I wrote my undergraduate thesis about human zoos, 

Katie Marinello: and someday I'm 

Katie Marinello: gonna write a thesis about reality shows as human


Claire Fisher: In times gone by, these people toured with the circus and people bought tickets to see the shortest man in the World. 

Claire Fisher: or little Tom to 

Katie Marinello: But also freak shows aren't illegal. There's one in Coney Island 


Claire Fisher: today, they make a reality show 

Katie Marinello: And, to be 

Katie Marinello: fair, 

Katie Marinello: That family, they've been doing that show for a long time. [00:47:00] And, they have profited from it immensely. 

Katie Marinello: It's different than, I would say, it's different than when P. T. Barnum would like, buy a 

Katie Marinello: child from 

Katie Marinello: its family. 

Claire Fisher: I think we're kind of getting off the track of what this movie is about though. This movie is not actually making fun of people's medical problems, 

Claire Fisher: giving people who share a condition the 

Claire Fisher: stereotype that they, all would if given a chance, wreak absolute havoc. So the joke isn't necessarily, ha ha, people with a medical condition. The joke is, look at these people who we would traditionally not think are fun loving partiers partying. 

Claire Fisher: There's an extended gag with One of them, ogling women, stuffing things down their décolletage, and at the end, when they're chasing the spy through the movie lot, they run through a woman's dressing room and he stays behind while the rest of the posse runs on, to hit on the dancers who are getting [00:48:00] dressed.

Claire Fisher: Ha Ha, people with a disability are also sexual 

Claire Fisher: It's not in very good taste, and it wasn't even in the 80's what 

Katie Marinello: I like all the reviews basically said, that gags involving people were just gross. 

Claire Fisher: I don't like this movie. It's not funny. It's not interesting. It's not cute, doesn't have a good redemption arc. And Carrie Fisher's character, , 

Katie Marinello: thought It had so much promise when she's introduced 

Oh, wow. She's the casting director. She's going to be the special coordinator, They walk down the yellow brick 

Katie Marinello: road with Louis B. Mayer. I thought it pretty cool. And then she just isn't? She's 

Claire Fisher: of a sword fight. Like, when 

Katie Marinello: Or, Or, like when the manager comes to her and says, this.

Claire Fisher: This 

Claire Fisher: party, that's getting 

Katie Marinello: this it's destroying my hotel.

Katie Marinello: And oh, I'm sure the studio will reimburse you. Okay, but people are getting killed.[00:49:00] 

Claire Fisher: Right, 

Claire Fisher: they broke the elevator, 

Katie Marinello: people are being permanently 

Katie Marinello: disabled and there's several bodies hanging in the meat locker, which is

Katie Marinello: not the 

Katie Marinello: fault of the little people, but 

Claire Fisher: It just goes nowhere. I'm gonna give her zero Hetzlayers,

Katie Marinello: I gotta 

Katie Marinello: go zero. 

Claire Fisher: she, doesn't act at 

Claire Fisher: all to affect anything. She is a cutout of a woman who ends up in her underwear 

Claire Fisher: multiple times. 

Claire Fisher: We do have something better coming up. Return of the Jedi is her next movie. So let's find out who her agent was, but also Let's look forward to a movie that has a DVD with actual, navigation features. And, even special features. And, um, you know, a plot.

Claire Fisher: And, memorable lines. And, a good score. Not nominated for any Razzies, to the best of my recollection. And [00:50:00] a bare minimum of animals dying from assassination, trampling, drowning, suicide, etc. A few Ewoks die, but they get theirs. They triumph. They eat the stormtroopers. 


Katie Marinello: If my life weren't funny, it would just be true.

Claire Fisher: And that is unacceptable.


Claire Fisher: Stay tuned for a special presentation of The Peacock Story. 

Katie Marinello: Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, Far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited, and re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod. You can email us awaycarriedpod@gmail.com. You can follow Claire @deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie @katiedaway. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week and may the force be with you. 

Claire Fisher: And now the peacock story. 

Claire Fisher: It was 1968, and our grandmother was a business partner of a guy who ran a couple of [00:51:00] businesses, but among other things, a horse boarding and breeding farm. It was actually a pretty popular horse boarding and breeding farm. It had been the final home of a Kentucky Derby winner who was buried under the barn and on whose grave I once made out with my childhood sweetheart.

Claire Fisher: And on this farm, there were a wide variety of animals, including, for reasons that have been lost to history, a peacock. And this peacock didn't really have many responsibilities on the farm, so it had free range. It just wandered around. peacocking and waving its tail feathers and cawing and that kind of thing.

Claire Fisher: It was arguably a guard animal because it would have kicked up a ruckus if anybody had tried to mess with the place. But anyway, on this farm there was also a horse that had developed tetanus and it had unfortunately gone unnoticed until the horse already had lockjaw. At that point, unfortunately, it's too late to treat the tetanus.

Claire Fisher: So they knew this horse was going to die. And they're waiting for the [00:52:00] veterinarian to come over and give this horse a shot. And in the interim, they thought they'd let this horse wander around in the sunshine and enjoy a little fresh air on its final hours on this earth. And while it was doing that, unfortunately, it came to pass that the horse could not wait for the veterinarian.

Claire Fisher: It keeled over and died during a tetanic seizure. And it landed On the peacock.

Claire Fisher: And the moral of the story is that when your horse has lockjaw, you should lock up your peacock.

Claire Fisher: Also, get your test shots. Somehow I became famous for telling this story because I told it at the knitting club of my college and then someone who was in the knitting club told everyone else on campus, ask Claire about the peacock.

Claire Fisher: And so I became the teller of the peacock story. All over creation, including, I told this to a tour guide in Cairns, Australia 1 time, because I was with someone I'd [00:53:00] gone to college with and. In 2019, my grandmother passed away. Christmas of 2020, I was opening presents and in there was a framed peacock feather.

Claire Fisher: And I looked up to my mother and she said, no, it's a framed feather from the peacock. Because my grandmother had been so upset that the horse with lockjaw landed on the peacock that she had saved some of its tail feathers and my mother had found them in the attic while cleaning out the house.

Claire Fisher: And framed 1 for me, so I now have hanging on my wall. A peacock feather with a little caption that says, Ask Claire what happened to the peacock. ​