1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,360 Most real core 2 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:02,960 marketing is just lots 3 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,520 and lots of experimentation. 4 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:04,880 Yep. 5 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,720 Assuming you know 6 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,120 nothing about the consumer, 7 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:08,360 you don't know what's going to work. 8 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:09,800 So let's try a lot of different ideas. 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Welcome to Disruption Now. 10 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:25,600 I'm your host, 11 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:26,920 and moderator, Rob Richardson. 12 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,760 With me on the show is Mark 13 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:29,960 Douglas with MNTN 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,520 He's a serial entrepreneur. 15 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:32,720 He's a creative 16 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,520 and he's done lots of interesting things. 17 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,120 And we're going to talk about MNTN 18 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,160 and how that technology now 19 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,600 is using the power of A.I. 20 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,160 and simplicity to make it easy to buy. 21 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:44,600 Ads specifically 22 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,520 on smart TVs and smart channels like Hulu 23 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,280 and others. 24 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,600 So it's an honor to have him on the show. 25 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,080 Mark, how are you doing, brother? 26 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,320 Good. Thanks for inviting me. 27 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,080 I'm happy to be here. 28 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,240 Well, we're happy to have you. 29 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,160 So it's your company is very interesting. 30 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,240 And before we dive down the rabbit 31 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,000 hole of talking 32 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,280 about what you do in your company, 33 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,000 which we certainly want to do that, 34 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,480 I always like to have a conversation 35 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,400 with founders 36 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,240 and really learn about their journey, 37 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,520 learn about their struggles, 38 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,240 and just learn about their learnings. 39 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,600 Essentially. 40 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,680 So I see you used to work 41 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,600 for eHarmony, is that right? 42 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,000 Was that one of your. 43 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:20,600 Started out 44 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,720 I was head of engineering at eHarmony 45 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,680 during 46 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,440 their heyday, pre Tinder pre Bumble 47 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,880 and it was like 48 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,200 Match.com and eHarmony and 49 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,560 essentially inventing online dating. 50 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,400 Yeah, we're going to age ourselves here. 51 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,600 I remember eHarmony, so yeah. 52 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,240 I mean, people did not embrace it. 53 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:41,880 It was like 54 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,080 they felt like dating failures 55 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,080 if they had to go on 56 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,120 an online dating site at the time. 57 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,840 But eHarmony. What did you learn from that I'm curious. 58 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:50,240 That's a 59 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,760 that's a great really entry point, right? 60 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,160 It's 61 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:53,840 because the concept obviously 62 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,040 was the right concept. 63 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,400 It's it still is around. 64 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,840 It's probably booming in some ways. 65 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:01,720 What lesson did that 66 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,120 experience of eHarmony like? 67 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,280 How did that help inform 68 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,400 your experience now of leading a tech 69 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,080 company versus 70 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,080 being an executive at eHarmony? 71 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:12,360 You know, it. 72 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,640 The biggest lesson I learned was the 73 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,520 how subtle changes in your focus and 74 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,280 and your message 75 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:23,280 can really resonate 76 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,320 because eHarmony initially 77 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,920 like wasn't doing that well. 78 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:29,040 Like people just were not that 79 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,800 eHarmony was all about long 80 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,080 term relationships 81 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:33,640 and matching you 82 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:36,400 with that perfect someone and 83 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:37,960 it just wasn't 84 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,200 really resonating 85 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,760 in the context of the word dating. 86 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:42,720 And the company 87 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,200 actually got pretty close 88 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,400 to running out of money and shutting down 89 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,640 and then very close to the end, like 90 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,640 the companies out of money, 91 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,000 the founder Neil Clark Warren, 92 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,880 he went on a radio 93 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,840 show kind of like a podcast. 94 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,520 And instead of talking about dating, 95 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,600 he talked about marriage 96 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,360 and the same, you know, eHarmony 97 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:05,240 is the same thing. 98 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,040 But he's like he was like, 99 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,120 you know, it's just all about creating 100 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,280 like successful marriages lead 101 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,120 to generations of of healthy people. 102 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,200 And that like, literally that 103 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:19,200 like the next day, 104 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,480 the site went from 50 signed 105 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,680 people signing up a day to thousands. 106 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,320 And now the product did not change. 107 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,400 And just 108 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:31,760 you know what 109 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,360 the company was about explaining it 110 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,720 ironically in a more pure sense, 111 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:37,560 because that was 112 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,440 he was a clinical psychologist 113 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:40,960 and marriage counselor 114 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,200 and so he just wanted to 115 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,600 use the Internet to help create 116 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,200 successful relationships. 117 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,600 And that that just exploded from there. 118 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,200 And like 119 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,640 how many like in 120 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,920 you don't have to be a company 121 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,160 that's like close 122 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,120 to running out of money 123 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:57,760 just you launched the product 124 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,720 and it's like relatively subtle 125 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,600 changes can have a very very big impact 126 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,680 on the ultimate outcome 127 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:04,840 and that that was 128 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,800 the single biggest lesson 129 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,960 learned throughout my time there. 130 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,440 We had more things like that 131 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,360 in the product and other things 132 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,720 where was just like 133 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,280 small navigational changes 134 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,040 you can apply to your life 135 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:19,720 can wind up 136 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,360 having very, 137 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,560 very big changes in the outcome. 138 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:23,760 So that that was the basis 139 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:24,880 I think from there 140 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,520 Small changes make big differences. 141 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,080 And that's It's a great point. 142 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:30,760 I would 143 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,320 and, it sounds like it almost 144 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:34,360 happened by accident, 145 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:35,360 but now that you 146 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,280 kind of reverse engineer, 147 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:39,800 what lessons would you have for 148 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,120 how for a founder 149 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,360 like myself, like others 150 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,440 that may be listening to this about. 151 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:44,840 Yeah. 152 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,360 To figure out where where are those. 153 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:47,960 Right. 154 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,360 Small differences of 155 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,160 it could be messaging 156 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,760 or other points to focus on 157 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:53,320 so you don't have to 158 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:54,760 almost run out of money. 159 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:55,040 Yeah. 160 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,600 I mean it's interesting 161 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:58,760 because on the one hand 162 00:04:58,760 --> 00:04:59,440 there's that cliche 163 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,400 listen to your customers, 164 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,600 but customers don't 165 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,040 take you to the future, right? 166 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:04,400 They don't. 167 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,040 There's 168 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,320 there's kind of an adage 169 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,840 like if you cut it back in the day. 170 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:09,840 So like VHS 171 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:11,160 tapes and 172 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:12,520 Betamax and all that, 173 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:12,840 if you ask 174 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:14,480 the customer what improvements 175 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:14,920 they wanted. 176 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:16,760 They would say faster rewind 177 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,600 they wouldn't go a DVD player. 178 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,680 So there's no tape. Exactly exactly. 179 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Like they just won't tell you that. 180 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Right. 181 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,960 And so you have to like kind of come up 182 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,360 with the innovation yourself. 183 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,440 But then that product market fit that. 184 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,040 Like what is like 185 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,800 why are people going to want this? 186 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:34,440 Why are they going to 187 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,760 what's going to resonate with them? 188 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,880 You really do have to like assume, 189 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,640 you know, not like like go into 190 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:41,720 and be like I'm going to assume 191 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,000 I don't know anything about that 192 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,680 and just listen to the customer 193 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,440 but do it quickly like that 194 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,160 fail fast 195 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:50,840 mentality like right, 196 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,080 like no one really. 197 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,760 There's no, like, single path to success 198 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,040 and no one really like nails 199 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:58,840 it everything 200 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:00,360 the first time along the way. 201 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,120 So it's like fail fast, 202 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,040 you know, be totally on board for change, 203 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,760 but still somehow stick to the core dish 204 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:09,160 and that's 205 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,400 kind of the key 206 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,000 and it's almost like a quality. 207 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,680 And you as an individual 208 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,200 as in 209 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,440 some ways you can learn it 210 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:18,440 when you see people do it. 211 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,280 But in some ways you just have to like 212 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:22,520 have the right, 213 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,480 the right qualities to be like, 214 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,520 nope, that's not working. 215 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:26,160 We had tried. Yeah, 216 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,200 like and 217 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,200 I've had that experience a company. 218 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,880 I did called Homey 219 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,120 which was in the apartment rental space 220 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,920 we launched in like the biggest apartment 221 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,560 rental market in the country, 222 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,720 which was Houston, Texas. 223 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:44,880 But it turned out 224 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,240 like individual landlords, 225 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,200 weren't the best fit for us. 226 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,280 And so everything 227 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:49,560 we did 228 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,360 to launch the product 229 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:51,440 wound up being like, Nope, 230 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,520 that was the wrong path. 231 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:53,840 We got switched over here. 232 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:54,080 Yeah. 233 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,320 I mean, YouTube started off 234 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,880 as a dating website. People. 235 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,480 A lot of people don't know that, right? 236 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,240 Yeah. 237 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,440 And this is encouraging for me as being 238 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,160 if you don't know 239 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,840 I'm podcasting 240 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:06,200 but I'm also the founder of Disrupt Art, 241 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:06,840 we're an NFT 242 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:07,720 Marketplace focused 243 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,800 on fashion, film and music. 244 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,520 And it's and I'm learning 245 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,640 about those subtleties 246 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,320 you talk about that 247 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:14,720 make a huge difference. 248 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,600 Yeah and as you said earlier, it's 249 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:18,320 not like 250 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,320 you can't say let's see what people want 251 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:21,440 as Henry Ford 252 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,680 said had I asked what people wanted, 253 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,400 they would have said a faster horse. 254 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,200 Right. Right, exactly. Exactly. 255 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,520 So it's you got to have 256 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,560 but I love the part of saying, okay, yes, 257 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,720 what customers are currently doing 258 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,360 can't be how you only focus on things, 259 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:37,320 but the customer experience 260 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:38,600 does have to be 261 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,480 a big focus of what you currently have. 262 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,800 I think that's very well stated. 263 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:43,520 And so. 264 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:43,880 All right, 265 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,840 so you got there, you were at eHarmony, 266 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,440 you pivot around, you learn. 267 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,400 And now, of course, you're launching. 268 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,240 You've launched this current 269 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,560 business MNTN 270 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,240 that is very, very fascinating. 271 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:53,480 You know, 272 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:54,200 so first of all, 273 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,360 I understand 274 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,440 that you've actually acquired a 275 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,520 Ryan Reynolds company Maximum Effort. 276 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Yeah, but 277 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:02,880 I want to talk about that a little bit. 278 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,880 But what does let me ask this question 279 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:07,520 while you don't 280 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,400 focus on the customer, 281 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,560 you do focus on the problem 282 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,320 you're solving with MNTN 283 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,040 What problem 284 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,480 do you feel like MNTN is solving 285 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:15,800 for the current environment? 286 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:16,320 Well, 287 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,440 in some way, well, 288 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,640 the problem with solving is so basically 289 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:20,520 in some ways 290 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,280 just democratize 291 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,480 the television advertising market. 292 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Okay. 293 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,640 So if you if you back up just a little 294 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,640 and you look at television 295 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,560 viewing Netflix 296 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,800 and to some extent Hulu, also, 297 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,160 they just completely led the way 298 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,120 in changing that relationship 299 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,760 between the consumer 300 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,440 and the content and making it on demand. 301 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,240 Netflix 302 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,240 You see all the shows going further 303 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:46,960 and you can see an entire season 304 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,600 the shows on the same day 305 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:49,720 if you want to binge watch it. 306 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,400 And Netflix essentially invented 307 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,520 binge watching. 308 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:53,920 Yes, they did. Yeah. 309 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:55,680 And so that relates 310 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,200 and consumers responded 311 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,040 and then the industry followed. Right 312 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,040 now, it seems normal 313 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,720 that every TV network 314 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:03,440 has essentially 315 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:03,920 all of that 316 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,440 content available on demand, but 317 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:07,400 three years ago, 318 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:08,840 even that wasn't the case. 319 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,240 I mean, it was still like like that. 320 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,520 That wasn't the way it was. 321 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,400 So then we looked at 322 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:14,720 and said, 323 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,320 okay, the whole television 324 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,440 viewing experience has been transformed, 325 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,760 but now I still got to do an upfront, 326 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:21,960 I still have to at, 327 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:22,280 you know, 328 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,560 all the advertising 329 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,040 that essentially bundles most 330 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,040 this content is still stuck in a 50 331 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,800 maybe even 70 year old business model. 332 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,080 So we said 333 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,200 everything that people 334 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:33,920 consider normal 335 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:34,760 about television 336 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,880 advertising, high cost of creative, 337 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,360 you know, basically long lead times. 338 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,320 on planning 339 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,240 the high minimums upfronts. 340 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,160 All of that is really not that normal. 341 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,520 No one would go in it 342 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,920 as customers say, yeah, 343 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,240 that's what I want. 344 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,240 I want, you know. 345 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:53,960 And so we're like, 346 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:54,200 Well, 347 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,280 let's just reinvent all that to let in. 348 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,960 In the end, we did. 349 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:00,840 But then what? 350 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:01,360 You know what 351 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:02,200 the interesting thing 352 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,200 that's another entrepreneurial lesson 353 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,280 is when you read, 354 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,120 when you attempt 355 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,680 to reinvent an existing market, 356 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:09,560 the people 357 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,160 currently operating in the market 358 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,560 are usually the slowest to embrace that those changes 359 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,480 Oh, yes and yes. 360 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:16,600 Right, right. 361 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:17,960 And so we set so 362 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:19,280 our goal was, well, let's 363 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,680 bring a whole new set of customers 364 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,200 into television advertising, 365 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,280 market. Mid-sized companies 366 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,600 or large companies 367 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:27,400 that are more like 368 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,520 the direct response 369 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,280 advertisers that Google and 370 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:31,920 and Meta their thrive on 371 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,040 and let's bring television to them 372 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,400 they haven't been 373 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,880 your average ecommerce site 374 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,760 just never advertised on TV 375 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,960 As a matter of fact just tech companies. 376 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,680 If you look at any tech company 377 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:44,160 in general, 378 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,680 you don't see a ton of the tech 379 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:46,840 television ads right now. 380 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,360 Because they've got 381 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,120 they're going to advertise on Google, 382 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,520 Facebook, targeted ads. 383 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,920 You know, they want data. 384 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:52,720 They want. 385 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,200 Absolutely. Targeted advertising. 386 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,480 They want lots of data 387 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,080 to inform the amount of money 388 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:58,960 they're spending. 389 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,640 And so we set out 390 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,400 so we said, look, 391 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,680 we can reinvent all this, 392 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:04,040 we can modernize it, 393 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:04,720 but let's 394 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:05,360 we're going to have to 395 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,760 find a new customer. 396 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,960 And it wasn't as 397 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,400 thought out as it is now. 398 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:11,000 Yeah. Explain. 399 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,800 Now, like, oh, I had this all mapped out. 400 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,280 Yeah, yeah. 401 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,320 Look, I get it 402 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,120 It did go pretty well. 403 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:17,720 I will say 404 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,760 that it wasn't a lot of changes, 405 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,480 but you know, you kind of kind of stumble 406 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,360 along a bit, right? 407 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:24,160 And we have 408 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,680 we went to those customers 409 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,600 and they were fully on board. 410 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:28,880 The idea is like, 411 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,280 Oh, wait, I'm 412 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,080 doing like a ton on paid service. 413 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,720 I spent a ton on paid social 414 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,000 So now potentially 415 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,320 I can use television and have, 416 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:36,800 you know, 417 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,360 audience first targeting, 418 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,760 you know, basics like digital targeting. 419 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,000 But now in television 420 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,640 it resonated really well 421 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:44,120 and that 422 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,000 that's that 423 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,200 became performance television. 424 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,680 And so we essentially created the market 425 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,280 for Performance TV. 426 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,520 I said something, my team, 427 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,960 that's another entrepreneur. 428 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,840 The easiest way to win a market 429 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,680 is to create that market. 430 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:58,320 Oh, that's a mic drop 431 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,040 The easiest way to create a market. 432 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,720 To win a market is to create that market. 433 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,560 I mean, it's also a classic. 434 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:08,440 The easiest way to win a market is to create it 435 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,640 That's what Elon Musk said, 436 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:10,720 which 437 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:13,560 essentially created the market 438 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,080 for electric cars. 439 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,920 And then like you, 440 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,160 you're inherently the market leader 441 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,000 like you, 442 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,280 you're now dominating 443 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,240 the market, you're created. 444 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,320 And that's what we do with performance today 445 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:26,280 and I'm going to ask a question 446 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,040 about that because it's 447 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,360 it's yes, that's great. 448 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,440 How does one go about doing that? 449 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:34,920 So I'm looking at it 450 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:35,800 from this point of view. 451 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:36,200 It's like, 452 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,520 all right, yes, you're absolutely right. 453 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,560 You 454 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:40,520 the traditional people 455 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,080 that are doing this 456 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,080 are slowest to change because they have 457 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:45,760 their big boards. 458 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,760 They have to do studies. 459 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,000 They take two years to make a decision 460 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,400 and they wait for everyone else 461 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,320 to go that way 462 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:52,880 because they are large institutions 463 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,080 with lots of runway 464 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,120 and lots of time and lots of bureaucracy, 465 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,240 they can do those things. It's 466 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:00,120 it was the right pivot 467 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:00,880 that it sounds like you 468 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:01,640 it sounds like that 469 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,320 you made was going to institutions 470 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,720 that are more midsized, 471 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,160 smaller, innovative, growing 472 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,800 those who use 473 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,400 Facebook ads, Instagram ads, 474 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,880 it sounds like. Exactly. 475 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,520 You know, Google ads, things like that. 476 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,520 But how do you convince that group still 477 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,600 that may be your target market, 478 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:20,880 that they need something 479 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:21,560 that they don't know 480 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,640 that they actually need either? 481 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,000 How does one go about doing that? 482 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:26,480 You can speak from 483 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,480 your practical experience 484 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,000 is just kind of give some general advice 485 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,640 I think would be very helpful. Yeah. 486 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,560 So the nice thing for us 487 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,200 is that that segment of market, 488 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,000 what's called direct response 489 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,800 marketing, are very data driven. 490 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,200 And so because they're so data driven, 491 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,560 they tend to be very open to new ideas 492 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,880 and they're like, 493 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:47,560 Yeah, I'll try it, 494 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,640 but we'll just look at the data and see 495 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,000 you know, let's see what it looks like. 496 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,200 So you still have to find 497 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,400 the early adopters. 498 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,040 They're the ones that but they the 499 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,600 they it just 500 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,440 we just happen to be fortunate 501 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,280 that we were going into market 502 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,000 with the marketers 503 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,560 are that our customer 504 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,960 which they're the marketers 505 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,600 were very open to trying new things. 506 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,600 And so the existing kind of brand 507 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:14,800 advertising market, 508 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,880 they were not open to try new things, 509 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,240 but in the direct response market 510 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,120 they were very open to try new things. 511 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,560 They also felt very dependent on Google 512 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,520 and at the time Facebook. 513 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:25,960 You know, 514 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:27,280 I never know 515 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,000 whether I should call it Meta or Facebook. 516 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,320 Oh, you. Probably know it. 517 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,360 You know, they want to rebrand. 518 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,520 No one knows it as Meta 519 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,280 I think they're hoping 520 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,160 that people will forget that 521 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,600 they were Facebook at one point. 522 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,160 So but 523 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,200 but we're seeing about where we remember 524 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,280 we remember them as Facebook. 525 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,040 Facebook. Yeah. 526 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,200 And so they 527 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,240 so you had this 528 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,680 you had this set of customers 529 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,760 that were very beholden 530 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,600 to Google and Facebook at the same time, 531 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,120 which made them very eager 532 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,800 to find alternatives 533 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,320 or, you know, 534 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,120 additional avenues 535 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,120 to reach to find new consumers. 536 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,360 And at the same time, 537 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,880 they were super data driven. 538 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,760 So there's very little emotion 539 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,680 involved in the decision process. 540 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:05,600 It was just like, Yeah, 541 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,680 I have a test budget, let's try it. 542 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,320 Let's see what the data shows. 543 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,240 And now we're continue to expand 544 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,200 beyond what you can think of 545 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,400 as that early group. 546 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,520 A customer in that group is fairly large. 547 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:19,880 So yeah, 548 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,840 we didn't struggled to find people. 549 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,200 It was, 550 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,960 it was just all about getting a 551 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,040 the biggest obstacle 552 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,000 we had in our sales process 553 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:27,520 when we launched. 554 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:28,760 Is just getting people 555 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:29,840 to believe it. 556 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,760 Like we literally 557 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,400 have people on the phone going, Wait, 558 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,280 what you can now, 559 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,240 like I don't have to call an agency. 560 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:37,160 It was to me, 561 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,680 it was like E-Trade in the mid-nineties, 562 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,160 like, like, 563 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,160 like when the internet 564 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,040 was just taking off. 565 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:43,520 Like what? 566 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,520 I don't have to call a stockbroker 567 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:46,400 if I want to 568 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,120 like just democratizing 569 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,000 investing essentially. 570 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,840 And it was a very similar thing 571 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,240 that, yeah. 572 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,400 I'm a Web3 person. 573 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,480 It's about democratizing 574 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,640 the creative and people, 575 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,880 and a lot of creatives don't believe it. 576 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,880 Like, what are people going to pay me to 577 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,160 just to have access to digital images 578 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,760 and digital ownership like, yeah, 579 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:07,560 it is, yeah. 580 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:09,960 Yeah. 581 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,560 So we, we follow that path and it worked 582 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:13,480 really well. 583 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,880 The company has grown pretty nicely 584 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,320 That's, that's great to hear. 585 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,800 I think I'd like to explore something 586 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,120 with it. 587 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,360 I'm curious to see how it works 588 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:21,800 now because 589 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,320 as we look toward marketing, I'm interested 590 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:25,520 to figure it out. 591 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,960 How do you help people 592 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:27,960 determine their 593 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,520 do you actually help them? 594 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:30,680 It sounds like you help determine 595 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,120 their their customers 596 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,840 and everything else like that. 597 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,400 How do you go about stepping 598 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,280 through that process 599 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,120 in terms of just basic, just high level? 600 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,040 If you're helping people, 601 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:40,720 I guess, 602 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,520 target the right customers 603 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:43,840 and then using your technology 604 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,240 to do that, 605 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,760 like what would be like a really high 606 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,240 level basic walk through of that. 607 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,080 Well so one our customers again 608 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,000 tend to be marketers doing okay. 609 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:54,920 So they know it already. 610 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:55,560 They know their customer. 611 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,920 They have knowledge 612 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,480 and it's bringing those 613 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,160 kinds of tools where they 614 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:02,120 they can 615 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:03,760 figure out who their audience is. 616 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,360 So we're a software solution. 617 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:07,080 We're not their agency. 618 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:08,280 We 619 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,520 if they have an agency, 620 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:10,760 most of our customers don't but if 621 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,960 They have an agency 622 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,760 we'll partner with that agency. 623 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,560 But it's bringing those same kind 624 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:16,760 of digital tools 625 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,320 to television in this self-serve platform 626 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,840 where they can be comfortable 627 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,160 experimenting, 628 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,560 trying different audiences 629 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:25,280 they want to reach, 630 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,840 trying different creative 631 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,400 and having all this data 632 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,480 available to measure how that's going 633 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,120 that that's what we're doing for them. 634 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:33,800 Then we partner, 635 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,320 we have a customer success team 636 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,240 that gives a lot of advice 637 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:36,920 and will partner 638 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,720 with any agencies 639 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,840 that they might be working with also, but 640 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,360 it's those kind of marketers are not 641 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,080 everyone thinks of marketing 642 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:47,640 tend to think 643 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,560 like mad men where you know you come up. 644 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,240 Yeah yeah. 645 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,800 Incredible, incredible idea. 646 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,640 But most real core 647 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,240 marketing is just lots 648 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,800 and lots of experimentation. 649 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,160 Yep. 650 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,000 Assuming you know 651 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,400 nothing about the consumer, 652 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,640 you don't know what's going to work. 653 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,760 So let's try a lot of different ideas. 654 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,000 And again, it's that fail fast mentality 655 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:06,600 that didn't work. 656 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:07,920 Let's try this one 657 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,080 that's working pretty well. 658 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,600 Let's see if we can get it even better. 659 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,360 That's kind of the cycle that that most, 660 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:14,760 most marketers 661 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,400 really spend their days doing. 662 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,000 Yeah, that's well-stated. 663 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:19,880 Yeah. 664 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,040 I want to pivot a little bit 665 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,320 to talk about Ryan Reynolds. 666 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:23,560 I mean, I can't have an interview 667 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,080 and not talk about how your company 668 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,960 as I understand it, MNTN 669 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,640 actually bought Maximum Effort, 670 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,760 which is a company of Ryan Reynolds like. 671 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:34,760 And my understanding is Ryan 672 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,680 Reynolds has a 673 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:37,320 it's like a 674 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,680 it was a like creative 675 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:39,800 almost like they were 676 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,400 they made creative content 677 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,200 and you bought them. 678 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,760 Walk me through 679 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:44,720 what that was like, 680 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,000 that process in general. 681 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:46,840 What what's it like to work 682 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:47,120 to work 683 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,640 with to work with Ryan 684 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,840 he is he as funny as he seems on TV? 685 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:51,760 He seems funny 686 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,160 So I was asked this question 687 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,280 a few months ago 688 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,440 that literally that question 689 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,160 what's it like to work with Ryan? 690 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,960 And I said, well, the first month 691 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:01,280 you try not to laugh 692 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:02,400 at everything he says, 693 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:03,800 because then you just seem like a 694 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,200 giggling schoolgirl. 695 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,320 I think a schoolboy I guess 696 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,640 so he is very the Ryan you see on screen 697 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,240 is Ryan. 698 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,640 I mean he's just a very genuine guy. 699 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,840 He is very quick witted. 700 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,600 You know, it's a that's a superpower. 701 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,840 I wish I was as quick witted as he is. 702 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,480 Just whatever you say, 703 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,000 he knows what to say 704 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,640 next he's also just a really nice person. 705 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,000 How this came about is I think for Ryan 706 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,920 and creating maximum effort 707 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,320 that came out of Deadpool 708 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,480 because the movie studio 709 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,520 when they made Deadpool 710 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,680 they gave him virtually 711 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,120 no marketing budget. 712 00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:46,880 So he created his own agency 713 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,560 to market the film 714 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,680 and to do it at very, very low cost. 715 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,120 And obviously, 716 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,760 I think that Deadpool went on to make more 717 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,400 than $1,000,000,000 at the box office. 718 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,800 So it was 719 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,480 if I'm getting those numbers right. 720 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,560 So and then he told me, you know, 721 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,840 he said when we first met, 722 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:05,920 we met last April. 723 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:06,720 He said, 724 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:07,280 it took me 725 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320 eight years to make Deadpool, 726 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,880 but I can make a commercial 727 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,040 in a weekend and more people see it 728 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:14,480 and more 729 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,760 people wind up seeing it might go viral 730 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,560 if you like it. 731 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:19,440 And he's like, 732 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,280 I'd rather do lots of those. 733 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,760 I've done it. Yeah, he said. 734 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:24,760 He says. 735 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:25,760 I asked him 736 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,200 more than 50 movies 737 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,160 like I could create 50 commercials 738 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,360 this year, you know, like, 739 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:31,040 and just 740 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,240 make people laugh 741 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:32,920 and then attain 742 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,000 but at the same time connect them 743 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,080 with products 744 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:36,960 and services 745 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,080 that hopefully they would like. 746 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,600 So that's how it came about. 747 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,080 We met because we would think 748 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,600 someone recommended that we connect 749 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,640 and luckily some people 750 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,120 we both knew kind of connected us. 751 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,560 And I showed him what we were doing. 752 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,640 I gave him a product demo, 753 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:54,240 said, like we're 754 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,640 Reinventing television 755 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,720 advertising and democratizing, 756 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,400 just making it 757 00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,760 so anyone can approach this. 758 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,600 And he immediately was like, Wow, 759 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,400 I want to be a part of this. And 760 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,480 and it literally only took a few day. 761 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,120 I think it took two days to go from first 762 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,400 hi to let's team up and. 763 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:15,360 Wow. 764 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,400 Yeah so legally yeah MNTN did acquire 765 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,640 the agency Maximum Effort 766 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,360 but I mean obviously it's Ryan 767 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:25,480 Reynolds it's a it's a partnership right 768 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,640 and they 769 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,760 he and he's a smart guy 770 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,840 he works incredibly hard. 771 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,480 It's actually hard to keep up with 772 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:33,920 how hard he works. 773 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:34,840 I mean, it's 774 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,760 I think I thought I worked a lot of hours 775 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,720 until I saw his work. Yeah. 776 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,720 Same. 777 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,600 So he's incredible work ethic, 778 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,920 very smart and ready to do 779 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,560 whatever it takes to win. 780 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,280 Nothing is off limits. 781 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,880 And but at the same time, I mean, he's 782 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,640 obviously one of the biggest 783 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,080 celebrities in the world. 784 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:55,880 So and that 785 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,320 and that does offer a lot of advantages. 786 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,200 The biggest advantage is he never 787 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,320 has to show his ID 788 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,760 It must be nice that your face is your ID 789 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,000 when you walk in 790 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,600 like we walk in the building in that 791 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,840 it's like he knows that 792 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,680 he doesn't have to show his ID 793 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,040 They just say, We know who you are. 794 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:12,800 You. 795 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,880 You can head upstairs. 796 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:15,720 What? 797 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,520 Hey, come on. It's not fair 798 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,440 like they look at me suspiciously. 799 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,680 That's hilarious. 800 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,600 I'm curious. 801 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,520 As you said, 802 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:28,160 you're combining 803 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,320 with a brilliant creative 804 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,720 like Ryan Reynolds, 805 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,600 and we have this new creative economy 806 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,760 and what we focus on. 807 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,440 We do a lot of Web3 808 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,000 thoughts about the intersection between 809 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,560 Web3 810 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,560 blockchain, what's 811 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,840 maybe what's happening with data 812 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,600 in entertainment there, 813 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,080 and then what's happening 814 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,240 with what you're doing with data in this 815 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,320 and the direct TV, do you see 816 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,600 what do you see as the future there 817 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,720 or have you thought 818 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,640 about the intersection 819 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,360 between the next evolution 820 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:57,320 of the Internet 821 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:58,040 and what's what 822 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,480 and where you currently are now? 823 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,200 Well, definitely, 824 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,840 in terms of things like Metaverse and 825 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,840 and those kinds of aspects 826 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,120 and being very receptive 827 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,800 to where that goes. 828 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,640 And I think every new medium. 829 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,160 creates new forms of content. 830 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,480 And generally a lot of content 831 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:20,960 is funded 832 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,920 by advertising, by companies 833 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,000 wanting to connect with that consumer, 834 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,160 and it tends to reinvent the formats 835 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,200 for that advertising. 836 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:28,880 Also, 837 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,440 even avenues like what 838 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,760 Netflix is doing right now, 839 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,640 they entered the television market. 840 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,960 Like I've said to them, 841 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:35,680 like your ads don't 842 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,000 have to be 30 second TV ads. 843 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,040 No legacy? 844 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,560 They could be something entirely like Snapchat 845 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,480 They could be immersive ads. 846 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,080 Right, right. 847 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,320 Snapchat and Instagram. 848 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,800 They don't have the same ad formats. 849 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,640 They're very, very different. 850 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,080 And the fact that I'm wearing my 851 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,920 UC brand 852 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,240 and this is an advertisement period 853 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,280 the advertisement itself 854 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,360 doesn't have to be blah blah blah 855 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:02,960 that when people actually 856 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:03,800 culture has 857 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,520 shown this with, hip hop, right, 858 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,080 things become famous. 859 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,440 Someone says a line in a hip hop ad 860 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,760 and show it has a has a beverage with them. 861 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:12,360 All of a sudden 862 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:13,880 that beverage sells everywhere because. 863 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:15,160 Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. 864 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,120 So you're making the point. 865 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:17,720 I mean, that's a good point. 866 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,200 I mean, ultimately, 867 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,280 like the idea that consumers are marketed 868 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,920 to that to me ended with the Internet. 869 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,920 Like if you buy a product 870 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,680 you don't like, 871 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,880 you are lazy as a consumer 872 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,200 because it's so easy 873 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,320 to check reviews, it's so easy 874 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,480 to see what other people think. 875 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,400 So it's not about marketing to you. 876 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,160 It's just about like 877 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,960 there's a lot of innovation in the world 878 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,360 and a lot of emerging 879 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,000 companies trying to, 880 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,600 you know, connect with consumers 881 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,000 or bigger companies 882 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,280 trying to connect with consumers. 883 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,080 It's just about like, 884 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,120 here's what we have. 885 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:53,320 And if this interests you, 886 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,520 like reach out, go to our website, 887 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,240 go to our Instagram 888 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,160 And that's what marketing 889 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,680 has really become. 890 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,160 And going back to Ryan, 891 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,320 I mean, a lot of the things he does 892 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,840 from an average of the ads 893 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,960 he's created, 894 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960 there's like this, this like sincerity. 895 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,160 Like I'm just I'm 896 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,640 I'm just showing you 897 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,640 what like he's 898 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,240 just introducing you to something. 899 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,880 He's not marketing to you. 900 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,240 And that sincerity 901 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,600 and that transparency, 902 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,560 I think resonates with consumers. 903 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,600 Whenever he posts something, 904 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,400 whether it's an ad he did from MNTN 905 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,440 or ads he's done 906 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,040 with one of our customers, 907 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,360 the comments always say, 908 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,840 I don't understand why 909 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,320 I enjoy Ryan Reynolds, 910 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,480 like having me watch his ads so much. 911 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:37,880 And it's 912 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,440 like, Yeah, because they're just 913 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,800 because he's not marketing to you. 914 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,080 He's just being himself. 915 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,320 It's just being himself. 916 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,920 And that's going back to why 917 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,880 we acquired Maximum Effort 918 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,840 and swing back to like Web3 919 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,280 and stuff like that. 920 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,000 It was to so many of our customers, 921 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,080 were new to TV advertising 922 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,720 and Maximum Effort like kind of shows 923 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,720 that like 924 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,640 you don't need a half a million dollars 925 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,240 to get its TV ad like you don't fit. 926 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,680 It can be something that was literally 927 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,760 created over a weekend 928 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,120 because Maximum Effort has done 929 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,560 that multiple times. 930 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,640 So and just giving a vehicle 931 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,680 for emerging brands, 932 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,360 larger brands 933 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:19,120 to be able to do fast 934 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,320 advertising on this new fast 935 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,760 self-serve medium on the Web3 936 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320 I think there's definitely going to be 937 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,200 it's hard to predict the future. 938 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,280 But I 939 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:31,720 you know, 940 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,280 one thing 941 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,240 that's easy to predict 942 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,720 wherever consumers go, 943 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,160 brands, companies will follow. 944 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,880 The consumers are more in control 945 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,120 and they realize 946 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:42,360 that brands are following you're 947 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,160 they're following your journey. 948 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,280 You're not following their journey. 949 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,000 That can be 30, 40 years ago. 950 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,240 Maybe you were following their journey 951 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,640 because you were getting marketed to, 952 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,680 and you had No choice you didn't have. 953 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:55,520 It was. Like. 954 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,440 Exactly. Yeah. 955 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,000 But now they're just following you 956 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,080 wherever you go 957 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,880 and, you know, 958 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,200 and take advantage of it. 959 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,080 I think consumers right 960 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,280 now, I know we're jumping around topics. 961 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:08,680 No. 962 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,960 They're making themselves 963 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,240 way too hard to find. Well. 964 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,240 That was my next question, though. 965 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,120 Yes, we have more information 966 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:16,920 than we've ever had. 967 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,640 And some would argue 968 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,560 maybe we're less informed 969 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:19,680 than we've been. Yeah. 970 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,600 And there's this kind of 971 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,400 opposite side 972 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:24,120 of what 973 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:24,800 what we just said 974 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,280 certainly is better to have more choice. 975 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,360 Also, the research says 976 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,080 when people have too much choice, 977 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,000 they don't know what choice to make. 978 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:32,800 Right. 979 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,800 So how do you think 980 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:35,760 how do we operate that? 981 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,920 And I got a couple of rapid 982 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,800 fire questions I want to get to you. 983 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:39,320 Yeah. 984 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,600 Why in terms of the one part of that, 985 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,280 when you have to make choices 986 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,560 since the pandemic, 987 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,920 I kind of live everywhere 988 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,160 because I can't decide where 989 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:48,880 I want to live 990 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,200 because you know when you go into the office. 991 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,040 Right. 992 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:52,600 I'm actually 993 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:53,920 in Newport, Rhode Island, 994 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,280 right now of all places. 995 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,160 Okay. 996 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,560 Enjoying Newport in the summer? 997 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,920 No chance that I was going to be here 998 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,800 if, you know, two years ago, 999 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,040 because I'm like, 1000 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,120 I can't decide where to go, 1001 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:05,520 so I'm going to go 1002 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,440 someplace I've never been. 1003 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,880 But the consumer is going back to 1004 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,480 the consumer journey. 1005 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,560 And I think for consumers, 1006 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,040 what they don't realize 1007 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,520 is one of the dominant costs 1008 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,120 of every product you buy 1009 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,120 is, is the cost of buying you 1010 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:24,760 as a consumer. 1011 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,080 This is why once you buy from a company 1012 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,240 of like 25% off emails 1013 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,080 because they no longer have to pay to market 1014 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,120 they don't have to 1015 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,360 they don't have to pay all this cost 1016 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,560 to connect with you anymore. 1017 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,200 So you as a consumer, 1018 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,640 if you make yourself easy to find, 1019 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,720 you will literally save money. 1020 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:43,400 Like I'll give you 1021 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,720 a really concrete example. 1022 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:45,960 If you pay $800. 1023 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:46,640 Let's say you go online. 1024 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,200 That is. Fascinating thought. 1025 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,120 Yeah. 1026 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,240 They if you go online to buy a matress 1027 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:51,680 and let's say a 1028 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 matress costs, you know, $800, $600, 1029 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,480 at least 40% of the cost of that 1030 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,120 mattress was finding out that 1031 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,520 you were moving. Mm. 1032 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,320 If you just literally said 1033 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,880 hey I'm moving made yourself easy to identify 1034 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,280 those companies would 1035 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,000 gladly give you 25% off but they, 1036 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:11,680 you know once 1037 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,120 they spent expended all these dollars. 1038 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:14,880 Yeah. 1039 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,920 To 1040 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,720 to connect with you like that 1041 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,920 money is sunk costs 1042 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,760 and you have to 1043 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,760 unfortunately we as consumers pay it 1044 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:23,720 this idea 1045 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,960 I'm a little being a little esoteric now 1046 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,640 the idea that companies 1047 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,760 pay anything companies pay nothing, 1048 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,880 consumers pay everything. 1049 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,200 That's how it works 1050 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,600 There's nothing a company pays for. 1051 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,120 Consumers pay everything. 1052 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,360 The company just turns what the consumer 1053 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,920 paid into. 1054 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,080 I got to buy marketing, 1055 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,400 I got to buy production, 1056 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,080 I got to buy HR 1057 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,920 you know, stuff, stuff like that. 1058 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,440 So I think consumers 1059 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,960 are when I say easy to find. 1060 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,120 I think a lot of the 1061 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,960 privacy debates right now are 1062 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,360 are a little irrational. 1063 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,160 And they're just 1064 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,240 they're just raising 1065 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,480 the cost of the products 1066 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,440 that everyone buys. 1067 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,880 So we could do a whole topic. 1068 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:07,440 I mean, that's 1069 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:08,480 a fascinating point of view 1070 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,040 that you make. 1071 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:09,680 And it's and it's 1072 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,640 when people talk about Web3 1073 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,800 part of the 1074 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,880 I think the narrative is like everybody's 1075 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,080 going to own their own data, 1076 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,720 which is the powerful, powerful 1077 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,600 part of it to some folks. 1078 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,360 The powerful part I see is that creatives 1079 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,760 and people 1080 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,680 that are making content 1081 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,120 can have another way to monetize 1082 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,720 and kind of co-create with their fans. 1083 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,240 But data still is data like it's 1084 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,240 blockchain is a ledger. 1085 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,080 People can follow data. 1086 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,360 We can figure that part out too. 1087 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,120 Like it's 1088 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,040 it's like just because 1089 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:34,960 it's on a blockchain, 1090 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:35,960 it doesn't mean you can't see 1091 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:36,520 what's happening. 1092 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,880 You literally can. Yeah. 1093 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:38,800 In a world 1094 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,400 where you own your own data, I would 1095 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,800 sell all of mine 1096 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,600 and just. 1097 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,080 Not that your biased 1098 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,400 and I'd buy products 1099 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,280 for less I feel like here's who I am 1100 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,200 this is where I currently reside. 1101 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,760 This is what I'm currently interested in. 1102 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,280 This is what I'm currently doing 1103 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,240 whoever gives me product offers 1104 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,560 a good products at the cheapest prices 1105 00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,600 is who I'm going to buy for 1106 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:00,960 and I'm making it easy 1107 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,080 to make that decision that like, 1108 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,240 like I would own the data 1109 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,440 but then release it because like, 1110 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,560 I don't know it's not a big secret 1111 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,680 that like 1112 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:13,520 I need to 1113 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,160 whatever that I want to buy 1114 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,760 clothes today, like with how 1115 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,400 I that's not something. 1116 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,200 I tend to agree with you. Yeah. 1117 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Because I believe 1118 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,080 people want their lives to be easier 1119 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,880 and enjoy the trade off. 1120 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,560 What I 1121 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,400 the only point I would make 1122 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,080 is that 1123 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,960 there just needs to be informed consent. 1124 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,960 Like it needs to be clear 1125 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,880 about what you're disclosing. 1126 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,880 And I think 1127 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,240 and I think most people will say yes 1128 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,120 because they want the trade off 1129 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,640 of the things you just said they want. 1130 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,240 Yeah, they want access to their product. 1131 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,640 They want to know 1132 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,000 they want Spotify 1133 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,120 to know and understand 1134 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,000 their favorite songs. 1135 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,880 So they can listen to it. 1136 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:45,200 I've heard people say they love Spotify. 1137 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,560 It can read their mind 1138 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,560 and they think of it 1139 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,520 some people as a little creepy. 1140 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,960 But if we're honest, people 1141 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,200 like not 1142 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,000 having to think about those things 1143 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,840 they like. 1144 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:54,480 They like that. 1145 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,320 I mean, it's the vast majority. 1146 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,720 There are some that don't, 1147 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,400 but they tend to be 1148 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,000 the outliers in the mass. 1149 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,720 So that's a really good point. 1150 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,880 My single biggest complaint 1151 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,000 about Spotify is 1152 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,080 how come I don't know 1153 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,920 when there's concerts for the artists, 1154 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,240 you know, I'm listening 1155 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,080 and you know, I'm listening to them. 1156 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,160 But somehow how 1157 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,080 come I'm not getting alerted that 1158 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,360 that artist is touring 1159 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,440 Well, I'm going to help you with that. 1160 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,080 That's exactly 1161 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,360 what Disrupt Art's about we'll 1162 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:17,800 an offline 1163 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:18,840 conversation about that 1164 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,720 this is that's the whole point of this 1165 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:21,800 like I think 1166 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,360 I think they have a model 1167 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,400 that I think works for mass consumption. 1168 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,840 But then for the superfans and others, 1169 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:27,480 that really want to know 1170 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,160 about a more intimate experience. 1171 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:29,600 Then there's a 1172 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:30,560 there's an audience for that. 1173 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,000 But I don't think 1174 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,440 from I don't think Web3 1175 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,440 is replacing all of Web2 1176 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,160 I think people like 1177 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,760 the distribution model 1178 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,920 of getting to be able to listen 1179 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,600 to their favorite song and understand it. 1180 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,080 But I also think people want to know 1181 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:43,840 what you just said. 1182 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,440 Oh, here's my favorite artist. 1183 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,600 Can I do something to learn about alerts 1184 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,520 coming in and tying those two together? 1185 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,000 I think it's very, very powerful. Okay. 1186 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,880 A couple of quick rounds. 1187 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,440 I want to talk to you briefly after this. 1188 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:54,800 All right. 1189 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,240 The future of 1190 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,400 advertising and 1191 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,400 media is just one sentence completed 1192 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,040 You caught me off 1193 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,800 guard with that 1194 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,920 the future of advertising and media is 1195 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,480 definitely more immersive, 1196 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,240 definitely more 1197 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,440 in the near term, less it's 1 to 1. 1198 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,280 But in the long term, 1199 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:16,520 I think 1200 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,120 it's definitely more 1 to 1 1201 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,280 for the reasons we've been talking about. 1202 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,520 So it's very personalized. 1203 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:23,960 All right. 1204 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320 One slogan that describes your business 1205 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,320 or who you are personally, 1206 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,200 what with that slogan, be. 1207 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,200 The hardest 1208 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,160 working software in advertising. 1209 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,840 So that's our tagline right now. 1210 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,240 But they also like just empowering 1211 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,440 the marketer 1212 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,880 to finally fully 1213 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,680 have access to television. 1214 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,960 And what's your personal slogan? 1215 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,840 Wow, the ambition, trust and ambition, 1216 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,240 that that's a culture 1217 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,840 I've created in my company. 1218 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,160 It's just all about trusting everyone. 1219 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,640 that's a part of the team 1220 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,480 and but still combining that 1221 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:03,880 with a lot of ambition. 1222 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,920 And that's my personal like kind of 1223 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,680 credo, I guess you could say. 1224 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:09,880 Mark Douglass, CEO of 1225 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,240 MNTN, it's a pleasure having you on. 1226 00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:11,920 Disruption Now. 1227 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:12,840 Definitely don't make yourself 1228 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,320 a stranger. Thanks.