WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:06.230 CJ: Welcome to build and learn. 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:07.289 My name is CJ. 00:00:07.668 --> 00:00:08.538 Colin: And I'm Colin. 00:00:08.538 --> 00:00:12.838 And today we are catching up on a bunch of tech that has dropped recently. 00:00:12.898 --> 00:00:17.768 Sprinkle AI, LLMs, and some new stuff from Facebook. 00:00:18.636 --> 00:00:19.266 CJ: Very cool. 00:00:19.356 --> 00:00:20.276 Let's get into it. 00:00:21.028 --> 00:00:24.188 Colin: So I think when it first came out, you could ask it to get things and 00:00:24.378 --> 00:00:28.058 I don't know if it was a hallucination, but you could like give it a URL and 00:00:28.058 --> 00:00:30.618 sometimes it would give you data back. 00:00:30.648 --> 00:00:34.508 Like I told it to go look at my LinkedIn and I think it kind of 00:00:34.508 --> 00:00:38.888 hallucinated based on what it had already scraped before the cutoff date. 00:00:39.358 --> 00:00:43.618 But yeah, the big news now is that I guess there is no cutoff date for chat GPT. 00:00:44.088 --> 00:00:48.778 So I don't know when that happened or, or if you're going to see better or 00:00:48.778 --> 00:00:53.428 worse results because now you also have data that it's going to start teaching 00:00:53.428 --> 00:00:58.938 itself based on blog posts and stuff that people have been generating with ChatGPT. 00:00:59.813 --> 00:00:59.833 CJ: Yeah. 00:00:59.833 --> 00:01:02.433 It was fun. 00:01:02.443 --> 00:01:05.593 The, that the article that you sent me or the sort of I don't know if it 00:01:05.593 --> 00:01:09.603 was Tik TOK or Instagram where Justin Jackson was like recording, showing a 00:01:09.653 --> 00:01:11.333 podcast recording that was generated. 00:01:11.948 --> 00:01:15.838 And a while ago, like several months ago, I listened to a podcast. 00:01:15.858 --> 00:01:20.538 It was like an AI news podcast that was generated by two AI hosts and they 00:01:20.538 --> 00:01:25.618 still sounded really robotic, but the one that you showed me was pretty legit. 00:01:25.638 --> 00:01:30.198 And this guy, Brad, the video editor that we used to work with at Stripe also 00:01:30.208 --> 00:01:31.898 recently sent me something just like. 00:01:32.313 --> 00:01:33.013 Kind of for fun. 00:01:33.013 --> 00:01:36.473 He was like, Oh, I was working on some videos of yours and needed to 00:01:37.023 --> 00:01:38.583 like change some words that you said. 00:01:38.583 --> 00:01:41.693 So I just generated some stuff just like for fun. 00:01:42.633 --> 00:01:45.763 Colin: And with Justin's example, he said that it was only on 30 00:01:45.773 --> 00:01:47.853 seconds of his voice that was used. 00:01:47.863 --> 00:01:52.843 So I've been playing around with this site called 11 Labs that does 00:01:52.843 --> 00:01:54.893 a bunch of AI generated stuff. 00:01:54.923 --> 00:01:58.643 And like, we just replaced the voicemail for our coworking space with it. 00:01:59.183 --> 00:02:04.213 Because we don't really answer the phone and it's like either spam, a scammer. 00:02:04.793 --> 00:02:07.843 Or it's a legitimate person who wants to come in for the day. 00:02:07.853 --> 00:02:10.413 And so we just made it more obvious. 00:02:10.453 --> 00:02:13.833 And I set up Calendly with Stripe and it was like, if you want to come in for 00:02:13.833 --> 00:02:17.513 the day, like the AI sounds very human. 00:02:17.513 --> 00:02:19.213 And it says to go to the website. 00:02:19.583 --> 00:02:22.613 And we just put that up on Tuesday and we've already had two people 00:02:22.613 --> 00:02:23.823 book through that, which was kind 00:02:23.913 --> 00:02:24.833 CJ: no way. 00:02:24.993 --> 00:02:25.333 Colin: Yeah. 00:02:25.803 --> 00:02:26.803 CJ: That's awesome. 00:02:27.243 --> 00:02:31.633 Does it give you like, what, what is 11 labs doing for you? 00:02:31.633 --> 00:02:34.103 And is it kind of like a one time thing or is it hooked up? 00:02:34.103 --> 00:02:36.233 So now they handle all your calls or 00:02:36.533 --> 00:02:38.423 Colin: So I hacked it a little bit. 00:02:38.453 --> 00:02:41.003 I, if you go to the website and we'll put it in the show notes, you can 00:02:41.003 --> 00:02:44.773 just type in, I think it's like up to, it's like a tweet amount of data like 00:02:44.773 --> 00:02:47.063 a sentence and just as like a demo. 00:02:47.113 --> 00:02:51.463 And what I did was I put what I wanted to say in there and it was longer than that. 00:02:51.463 --> 00:02:53.863 So I actually did a few of them and downloaded them 00:02:53.883 --> 00:02:55.123 and put them into Descript. 00:02:55.773 --> 00:02:58.003 And then I, I use Google voice. 00:02:58.003 --> 00:03:00.143 So we're, we're kind of like DIY hat. 00:03:00.143 --> 00:03:03.493 Like we don't have a Twilio IVR or anything like that. 00:03:03.853 --> 00:03:04.583 And so I. 00:03:04.913 --> 00:03:10.353 I had to play the voice on my computer and record it into Google Voice. 00:03:10.833 --> 00:03:13.903 And so now we just set Google Voice to always default to 00:03:13.903 --> 00:03:16.383 voicemail and there is no IVR. 00:03:16.383 --> 00:03:17.153 There's no phone tree. 00:03:17.153 --> 00:03:20.633 You don't get to hit two if you want to do a day pass or whatever. 00:03:20.843 --> 00:03:22.733 But it just, Tells you what you need to do. 00:03:22.773 --> 00:03:25.253 And if you are trying to get in touch with us for any other 00:03:25.253 --> 00:03:26.533 reasons, send us an email. 00:03:26.993 --> 00:03:30.583 And it's just something we have to do to kind of keep costs down. 00:03:30.583 --> 00:03:34.663 Like we just, every time the phone rings, I'm like either in a meeting or just 00:03:34.663 --> 00:03:38.313 like, Ooh, it's probably going to be a scammer that I just don't want to talk to. 00:03:38.313 --> 00:03:43.313 And so yeah, I mean, I think most of our members prefer the working 00:03:43.363 --> 00:03:44.803 with us on the internet anyway. 00:03:44.803 --> 00:03:47.703 And once they get here, then we get to have the human touch. 00:03:48.318 --> 00:03:48.698 CJ: Yeah. 00:03:48.808 --> 00:03:51.698 It's very different from this home services stuff that we're doing. 00:03:51.698 --> 00:03:54.828 Like a lot of people who want their home painted want to 00:03:54.828 --> 00:03:56.138 talk to somebody on the phone. 00:03:56.738 --> 00:04:00.328 And so we're kind of having the opposite situation where we, we 00:04:00.328 --> 00:04:03.188 have to get on the phone with people like several times a day. 00:04:03.718 --> 00:04:06.578 And that is a problem that we've been trying to solve. 00:04:06.628 --> 00:04:09.088 And we've made some really exciting progress this week. 00:04:09.088 --> 00:04:13.128 Nick on our team is working on this thing where basically if you come to 00:04:13.128 --> 00:04:15.848 the website, you can sort of get an estimate by clicking a bunch of buttons 00:04:15.848 --> 00:04:20.478 and telling us some information about your, like the job that you want to do. 00:04:21.108 --> 00:04:26.088 And that will create this API call that goes to our back end and, you know, 00:04:26.088 --> 00:04:29.328 uses a bunch of data and calculator and gives you back some like structured 00:04:29.338 --> 00:04:32.088 data, but he's doing it from the chat. 00:04:32.098 --> 00:04:37.168 So like using the chat messages and then I think we're using anthropic to 00:04:37.168 --> 00:04:42.368 just extract the features from chat that would be useful in the API call and then 00:04:42.398 --> 00:04:46.668 building the Jason based off of like what people talked about in the thing so that 00:04:46.668 --> 00:04:53.078 you can Create the sort of estimate from what people said, which is, it's so cool. 00:04:53.078 --> 00:04:55.948 Like the, the direction and stuff is going, it's just insane. 00:04:56.138 --> 00:04:56.728 And fun. 00:04:57.048 --> 00:05:00.638 Colin: What's cool about that is it's not really replacing anybody, right? 00:05:00.638 --> 00:05:03.718 Everyone's talking about how we're replacing jobs and things. 00:05:03.718 --> 00:05:07.418 It's like, do you just get to talk to more customers if you can get 00:05:07.418 --> 00:05:12.018 a summary faster, if you can get a quote faster, it's just making you 00:05:12.118 --> 00:05:14.158 more powerful and doing your work. 00:05:14.158 --> 00:05:17.278 And I could see it being like, okay, they had a text with us. 00:05:17.578 --> 00:05:18.508 They had an email. 00:05:18.738 --> 00:05:20.108 They filled out some form. 00:05:20.118 --> 00:05:22.588 We had two calls, but it wasn't with me. 00:05:22.608 --> 00:05:27.658 Just tell me like what this person wants done so that I have context before I give 00:05:27.658 --> 00:05:30.128 them a call is also just super powerful. 00:05:31.978 --> 00:05:32.238 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:32.238 --> 00:05:36.208 My grandmother she, I don't know if I've told the story on the pod, but 00:05:36.848 --> 00:05:40.978 she was like trying to get ahold of some doctor and she called the hospital 00:05:41.008 --> 00:05:43.088 and was on hold for like three hours. 00:05:43.518 --> 00:05:47.863 And then Like the other line rang and she thought maybe it was the doctor calling 00:05:47.863 --> 00:05:52.343 her back and she like went to go pick up the other line accidentally hung up and 00:05:52.343 --> 00:05:58.113 then in a cry because she was just like so frustrated with Having to wait this 00:05:58.113 --> 00:06:02.388 long and I was like Grandma, that's not going to be like a thing in 12 months. 00:06:02.388 --> 00:06:04.338 Like people are not going to talk to you on the phone. 00:06:04.338 --> 00:06:07.028 Like you're going to talk to a computer that's going to seem just like a 00:06:07.028 --> 00:06:10.518 human and we'll be able to scale these just infinitely and trying to 00:06:10.518 --> 00:06:15.018 explain that to her was, it was tricky, but yeah, I think that's definitely 00:06:15.018 --> 00:06:16.098 the direction we're going, right? 00:06:16.098 --> 00:06:20.098 Like make it so that people can interface with your company and your 00:06:20.108 --> 00:06:22.318 data in whichever way they want. 00:06:22.348 --> 00:06:27.698 And then you can kind of like build these abstractions that make it so that you can. 00:06:28.173 --> 00:06:31.743 Automate processes without having to have, yeah, without having to pay 00:06:31.743 --> 00:06:34.343 someone to pick up the phone and answer questions that can be done automated. 00:06:35.118 --> 00:06:35.538 Colin: Yeah. 00:06:35.958 --> 00:06:38.728 There's definitely a humanness that we can talk to a little bit with 00:06:38.728 --> 00:06:42.038 like this this other thing that just happened today, the meta smart glasses. 00:06:42.498 --> 00:06:47.318 Some people have been kind of lamenting the loss of human humanness or human 00:06:47.318 --> 00:06:51.458 connection and that you have this, Potentially this piece of glass between 00:06:51.458 --> 00:06:56.068 you and everything you experience, literally, like you know, what is 00:06:56.068 --> 00:06:59.628 the wandering around town and just wondering what a thing is versus 00:06:59.628 --> 00:07:03.758 like having this, you know digital assistant that's like trying to tell 00:07:03.758 --> 00:07:05.458 you what everything is as you're going. 00:07:05.958 --> 00:07:07.218 I didn't watch the announcement. 00:07:07.218 --> 00:07:10.228 I saw some stuff go by and like saw some screenshots and stuff. 00:07:10.238 --> 00:07:12.198 How did you follow up on this? 00:07:12.733 --> 00:07:17.133 CJ: I just watched a few clips from the announcement and. 00:07:17.908 --> 00:07:19.428 I am really impressed. 00:07:19.488 --> 00:07:24.778 I was not into the Google Glass thing, but the fact that they partnered 00:07:24.808 --> 00:07:29.808 with Ray Ban and the glasses look dope and also like the camera that's 00:07:29.808 --> 00:07:35.448 in them is I think pretty close to the same 12 megapixel ultra wide 00:07:35.448 --> 00:07:36.808 camera that's like in an iPhone. 00:07:37.328 --> 00:07:42.248 Not the main camera, but like, it's a pretty good camera and it has, you 00:07:42.248 --> 00:07:46.628 know I think it has like the speakers and it has The Qualcomm chips and 00:07:46.628 --> 00:07:50.898 everything like I am blown away, especially at like a 300 price point. 00:07:50.928 --> 00:07:52.308 It's just mind blowing. 00:07:52.718 --> 00:07:56.398 So I am, I'm definitely intrigued. 00:07:56.408 --> 00:07:59.998 Like I know there's, there's like, I don't know, questions about 00:08:00.798 --> 00:08:04.298 how it's going to impact our like psychology and society and stuff. 00:08:04.648 --> 00:08:08.958 But just from like a tech perspective, I was pretty impressed and like excited. 00:08:08.958 --> 00:08:09.288 So, 00:08:09.638 --> 00:08:12.578 Colin: I haven't seen the form factor for like batteries and 00:08:12.588 --> 00:08:13.818 battery life and all that. 00:08:13.858 --> 00:08:17.388 Like, are you holding like a little thing in your pocket that's your battery? 00:08:17.648 --> 00:08:22.848 CJ: so the glasses case, Looks just like a glasses case, except it has 00:08:22.848 --> 00:08:24.928 like a USB plug in the bottom and 00:08:25.068 --> 00:08:25.548 Colin: So it's 00:08:25.798 --> 00:08:26.418 CJ: a button. 00:08:27.338 --> 00:08:28.208 Yeah, exactly. 00:08:28.218 --> 00:08:28.788 Exactly. 00:08:28.808 --> 00:08:32.048 So it'll be just kind of like, oh, and it's supposedly they 00:08:32.048 --> 00:08:33.638 have 36 hours of battery. 00:08:33.838 --> 00:08:38.538 I'm sure it's going to be like 10, but like that's what, yeah, exactly. 00:08:38.538 --> 00:08:40.808 You know, they're going to claim more than whatever. 00:08:40.828 --> 00:08:46.328 And I'm sure right now too, they're not promising that the. 00:08:46.763 --> 00:08:50.193 You'll be able to like, you get the all the AI features right away. 00:08:50.503 --> 00:08:52.753 They're like, it's going to come down the road and you'll be able to 00:08:52.753 --> 00:08:55.803 sort of upgrade and use this, like the new software as it comes out. 00:08:55.803 --> 00:08:59.013 But even just for the camera feature, I think it's pretty sweet. 00:08:59.043 --> 00:09:01.793 It's like not like mission impossible, but there's definitely 00:09:01.793 --> 00:09:04.403 spy movies where people had like, you know, cameras in the glasses, 00:09:04.403 --> 00:09:05.663 maybe like James Bond or something. 00:09:05.663 --> 00:09:06.003 And I'm like, 00:09:06.203 --> 00:09:08.263 Colin: Well, Snapchat had glasses. 00:09:08.603 --> 00:09:09.693 CJ: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:09:09.703 --> 00:09:14.043 But it's still, it's still like, I feel like the, the, they look cool too. 00:09:14.063 --> 00:09:17.033 They look like, like actual glasses that I would buy. 00:09:17.033 --> 00:09:17.843 Like, I don't know. 00:09:18.213 --> 00:09:18.473 Colin: yeah. 00:09:18.573 --> 00:09:22.703 And they're not 3, 000 like the Apple vision pro, which I know is 00:09:22.703 --> 00:09:27.343 a very, very different product, but there's that, that kind of valley 00:09:27.353 --> 00:09:30.103 that we have to cross when you start pricing something that expensive. 00:09:30.103 --> 00:09:33.313 And even what you're talking about, like, I kind of just wish Apple 00:09:33.313 --> 00:09:38.193 would give us a webcam, like take the camera out of the iPhone. 00:09:38.583 --> 00:09:41.933 I know you can pair your iPhone as a webcam, but I don't, I 00:09:41.933 --> 00:09:44.213 like, I want my phone, not on my. 00:09:44.453 --> 00:09:48.513 Computer necessarily, like just give me a really good webcam because 00:09:48.523 --> 00:09:49.683 we've talked about this before. 00:09:49.683 --> 00:09:53.903 There's the opal and there's the logitech's and the brio's and the cam 00:09:53.903 --> 00:09:55.923 links with the DSLR and all that stuff. 00:09:55.923 --> 00:09:59.463 It's just like a lot of stuff that I don't really want to have to have. 00:09:59.983 --> 00:10:05.183 And it'd be nice to just throw up, you know, the new iPhone 15 camera with all 00:10:05.183 --> 00:10:08.033 of its crazy features and call it good. 00:10:08.683 --> 00:10:09.253 CJ: 100%. 00:10:09.363 --> 00:10:10.373 Yeah, fully agree. 00:10:10.413 --> 00:10:16.853 I, when I started at craftwork, I tore down like all my dev rel gear, all my 00:10:16.853 --> 00:10:19.263 recording gear and like, put it away. 00:10:19.263 --> 00:10:22.733 And I was like, Oh, if I recording more videos, I'll just do it with no camera. 00:10:23.138 --> 00:10:27.358 And then I was like, Oh, I want to record this one video. 00:10:27.358 --> 00:10:30.188 So let me start getting some pieces, like bits and pieces out. 00:10:30.198 --> 00:10:31.778 And then I was like, Oh, I need my stand. 00:10:31.778 --> 00:10:33.328 And I need my like this, that, and the other. 00:10:33.328 --> 00:10:36.848 And now I'm like almost back to having like all my stuff. 00:10:36.978 --> 00:10:41.538 I don't have as many like lighting lights or whatever, but yeah, it 00:10:41.538 --> 00:10:44.808 would be amazing if they just had like a killer opal replacement. 00:10:45.318 --> 00:10:45.708 Colin: Yeah. 00:10:46.238 --> 00:10:48.758 Well, and I was looking at screencasting. 00:10:48.758 --> 00:10:49.038 com. 00:10:49.038 --> 00:10:50.488 Did you see that come out? 00:10:50.578 --> 00:10:51.328 CJ: that was launched. 00:10:51.328 --> 00:10:51.598 Yeah. 00:10:51.598 --> 00:10:52.468 That looks exciting. 00:10:52.768 --> 00:10:57.448 Colin: Yeah, I might sign up for that because One I mean his his camera and 00:10:57.448 --> 00:11:01.898 lighting setup is just so good, but i've also seen what it looks like It's a lot of 00:11:02.033 --> 00:11:04.863 stuff on, you know, outside of the frame. 00:11:04.913 --> 00:11:08.583 But very cool if you're interested in creating really professional 00:11:08.633 --> 00:11:11.773 screencasts, what I like about what he's teaching is also just the tips 00:11:11.773 --> 00:11:15.863 and tricks around how to iterate and make, put out videos in a quick way. 00:11:15.863 --> 00:11:18.943 So, you know, how to think about your content and then. 00:11:19.228 --> 00:11:24.128 How to create these workflows so that every single one of you know, every 00:11:24.128 --> 00:11:27.778 30 minute video or every 10 minute video doesn't take an hour to produce. 00:11:29.188 --> 00:11:33.348 CJ: Are you, is there any news on the content slash video 00:11:33.348 --> 00:11:36.268 front for your current role? 00:11:36.918 --> 00:11:38.108 Colin: It's something we want to do. 00:11:38.138 --> 00:11:39.638 It's still something we're looking at. 00:11:39.688 --> 00:11:43.008 We're focused a little bit more on docs and getting all 00:11:43.008 --> 00:11:45.018 that stuff figured out first. 00:11:45.068 --> 00:11:47.808 But yeah, text is easier. 00:11:47.918 --> 00:11:49.788 It's easier to update, easier to diff. 00:11:50.618 --> 00:11:51.198 CJ: Yes. 00:11:51.288 --> 00:11:51.828 Totally. 00:11:51.928 --> 00:11:52.418 Totally. 00:11:53.138 --> 00:11:53.418 Yeah. 00:11:53.448 --> 00:11:55.028 Are going back to the iPhone thing. 00:11:55.028 --> 00:11:57.898 Are you gonna, what do you think about that announcement 00:11:57.928 --> 00:11:59.388 and you're going to upgrade? 00:12:00.058 --> 00:12:03.478 Colin: Yeah, I guess we've had a bunch of tech updates since we last recorded. 00:12:03.578 --> 00:12:04.838 I'm rocking the 12. 00:12:04.888 --> 00:12:06.458 I think the phone's fine. 00:12:06.778 --> 00:12:08.798 But the USB C is tempting. 00:12:09.648 --> 00:12:11.368 My physical charger doesn't work. 00:12:11.368 --> 00:12:12.898 So I have to use a MagSafe charger. 00:12:12.898 --> 00:12:15.408 So like it's, it's on its last legs. 00:12:15.408 --> 00:12:18.948 I think I know some people who are still rocking the eight and the 00:12:18.948 --> 00:12:22.928 six, which is amazing that they're still supported and still work. 00:12:23.028 --> 00:12:27.258 Like my grandma still wants the home button, which I actually just discovered. 00:12:27.278 --> 00:12:31.328 I think the SE, iPhone SE still has a home button. 00:12:31.328 --> 00:12:32.098 So, which is good. 00:12:32.098 --> 00:12:37.158 Cause I think she would not, she would figure it out, but I don't think we 00:12:37.158 --> 00:12:39.168 need to go down that path with her. 00:12:39.228 --> 00:12:40.838 Like she wants the button. 00:12:40.848 --> 00:12:43.358 She wants to know when she can, you know, always press it and 00:12:43.358 --> 00:12:44.738 go home and stuff like that. 00:12:44.738 --> 00:12:47.448 So I think I'll probably upgrade eventually. 00:12:47.608 --> 00:12:48.038 How about you? 00:12:49.023 --> 00:12:54.183 CJ: I upgraded my phone was like insanely old and broken. 00:12:54.253 --> 00:12:55.393 Like the back was shattered. 00:12:55.403 --> 00:12:59.993 The front was shattered and yeah, the battery life was abysmal. 00:12:59.993 --> 00:13:01.783 And so it's nice. 00:13:01.833 --> 00:13:04.053 I think it's basically the same phone. 00:13:04.123 --> 00:13:08.253 The, like the unboxing and update experience. 00:13:08.888 --> 00:13:10.888 Was the best I've ever had with Apple. 00:13:10.888 --> 00:13:15.008 Like it was literally just, I pushed like five buttons and then I have the 00:13:15.008 --> 00:13:16.988 exact same, like everything is the same. 00:13:17.218 --> 00:13:18.318 All the apps are the same. 00:13:18.338 --> 00:13:20.998 I was logged into like almost everything already. 00:13:21.418 --> 00:13:24.068 Yeah, swapping over the eSIM was super easy. 00:13:24.078 --> 00:13:25.048 It's fast. 00:13:25.608 --> 00:13:27.328 It's lighter than my old phone. 00:13:27.928 --> 00:13:29.978 So I'm really happy about it. 00:13:30.483 --> 00:13:32.223 Colin: You probably don't even have a sim slot. 00:13:32.233 --> 00:13:32.623 Do you? 00:13:33.318 --> 00:13:34.548 CJ: I don't think there's a SIM slot. 00:13:34.578 --> 00:13:36.908 There's like a, there is some sort of slot, but. 00:13:37.823 --> 00:13:38.723 I don't know what it's for. 00:13:39.163 --> 00:13:42.553 Colin: Yeah, because they're I mean They're all unlocked eSIMs now Which 00:13:43.063 --> 00:13:48.293 if you travel internationally the eSIMs are just like huge unlock. 00:13:48.413 --> 00:13:49.243 Have you used that 00:13:49.903 --> 00:13:50.433 CJ: No. 00:13:50.473 --> 00:13:51.023 Colin: countries? 00:13:51.713 --> 00:13:52.163 CJ: No. 00:13:53.143 --> 00:13:56.303 Colin: Yeah, I guess we're kind of just rambling here today, but There's a, 00:13:56.353 --> 00:13:59.863 there's a few apps where you can just buy, like it used to be, if you're like 00:13:59.863 --> 00:14:04.353 going to Italy or going to Portugal, you'd have to like go find a SIM 00:14:04.353 --> 00:14:06.683 card at the airport or gas station. 00:14:07.113 --> 00:14:09.823 And now you can just be like, I'm going to be in Portugal, download 00:14:09.823 --> 00:14:13.133 a SIM card for Portugal, and it just shows up on your phone. 00:14:13.133 --> 00:14:15.643 And when you're there, you're online. 00:14:15.643 --> 00:14:19.563 So, you know, you got to be able to use, you know, transport or whatever 00:14:19.563 --> 00:14:21.153 you have your phone ready to go. 00:14:21.803 --> 00:14:22.763 CJ: That's super cool. 00:14:22.923 --> 00:14:26.563 Yeah, I usually just leave it off and try to get Wi Fi wherever I can go. 00:14:27.593 --> 00:14:29.123 Colin: Yeah, there's that too. 00:14:29.463 --> 00:14:29.843 CJ: yeah. 00:14:30.423 --> 00:14:31.653 But yeah, I like it so far. 00:14:31.743 --> 00:14:32.573 I think I don't know. 00:14:33.653 --> 00:14:34.013 We'll see. 00:14:34.033 --> 00:14:34.693 We'll see how it goes. 00:14:34.713 --> 00:14:35.263 It's a phone. 00:14:35.673 --> 00:14:36.013 So. 00:14:37.633 --> 00:14:37.873 Yeah. 00:14:37.873 --> 00:14:39.323 What is what do we got going on here? 00:14:39.363 --> 00:14:40.483 Oh, I guess once, yeah. 00:14:40.483 --> 00:14:43.643 We talked a little bit about this a while ago, but kind of an 00:14:43.643 --> 00:14:46.153 interesting business model, right? 00:14:46.153 --> 00:14:46.593 Like 00:14:47.208 --> 00:14:48.798 Colin: Yeah, you want to tee this up for everybody? 00:14:49.073 --> 00:14:49.713 CJ: sure. 00:14:50.303 --> 00:14:50.573 Yeah. 00:14:50.573 --> 00:14:53.293 So 37 signals launched once. 00:14:53.563 --> 00:14:54.103 com. 00:14:54.763 --> 00:15:00.643 And the idea is that instead of the, like having these SAS sort of offerings 00:15:00.643 --> 00:15:01.783 where you have to kind of like. 00:15:02.883 --> 00:15:07.903 Always host and provide access to something and go give ongoing support. 00:15:08.143 --> 00:15:14.433 Instead, you kind of just give someone the code, they get to see it and buy 00:15:14.433 --> 00:15:20.103 it for one amount, one time fixed price, and then they own the code. 00:15:20.103 --> 00:15:26.253 And yeah, it is definitely like a lifetime trying to get like the lifetime value 00:15:26.283 --> 00:15:28.843 upfront instead of over the course of. 00:15:29.533 --> 00:15:34.013 Many months, but it's definitely flipping kind of the SAS, the concept 00:15:34.013 --> 00:15:37.753 of SAS on its head, because now you're, you no longer have to deal with things 00:15:37.753 --> 00:15:40.613 like churn and cost of acquisition. 00:15:40.613 --> 00:15:44.283 And I don't know, there's like a bunch of like stuff that goes into 00:15:44.283 --> 00:15:50.393 running a SAS that you kind of get to leave behind you, but I don't 00:15:50.403 --> 00:15:51.603 know, it's definitely very different. 00:15:51.753 --> 00:15:56.033 Colin: Yeah, it'll be interesting because they have, I mean, over 10 years of, 00:15:56.273 --> 00:15:58.753 I mean, 15 plus years of SaaS data. 00:15:58.753 --> 00:16:01.863 So, I'd be curious to see what the pricing is. 00:16:01.903 --> 00:16:05.863 I think everyone's, like, up in arms with, like, SaaS is recurring and 00:16:05.863 --> 00:16:09.183 you can predict, like, once you hit a good flywheel, you can predict 00:16:09.183 --> 00:16:10.103 what you're going to be making. 00:16:10.103 --> 00:16:14.933 And churn could kill you, but also reasonably, once you really hit product 00:16:14.933 --> 00:16:20.298 market fit, like, you're not, Going to lose so much that you can't estimate 00:16:20.298 --> 00:16:24.938 hiring and paying yourself and things like that how much of this do you think is 00:16:24.938 --> 00:16:30.488 like 37 signals just like doing something very Out there to get attention though. 00:16:30.728 --> 00:16:34.478 That's kind of what it feels like It's like they like kind of created and 00:16:34.478 --> 00:16:38.278 popularized sass and then they're like we're gonna go the other direction 00:16:38.378 --> 00:16:38.738 CJ: isn't it? 00:16:38.848 --> 00:16:39.288 Yeah. 00:16:39.328 --> 00:16:44.058 I feel like they are good at being loud about the stuff that they're doing. 00:16:44.068 --> 00:16:48.778 Because if you think about it, like there are a lot of things that work 00:16:48.778 --> 00:16:53.098 like this already, like the tailwind UI stuff, that's not a SAS thing you 00:16:53.098 --> 00:16:57.798 pay one time and you get access to the templates and the kits and the whatever. 00:16:58.998 --> 00:17:03.588 Another example is I think in terms of community mega maker was like a one 00:17:03.588 --> 00:17:07.278 time thing when I signed up, you just pay one time you get in, it's a big 00:17:07.288 --> 00:17:11.498 chunk up front, but like, then you're in another example would be like these, 00:17:11.598 --> 00:17:16.648 the the starter templates for jumpstart pro that's like a one time thing you pay 00:17:16.648 --> 00:17:20.388 money and then you get you get access to the code and yeah, I think there's 00:17:20.478 --> 00:17:21.708 Colin: Do you get updates? 00:17:22.028 --> 00:17:22.318 Do you 00:17:22.713 --> 00:17:23.813 CJ: do get updates. 00:17:23.833 --> 00:17:27.273 I don't know what all like the, the licensing and stuff looks like, but yeah, 00:17:27.273 --> 00:17:31.513 you, you kind of like get access to the GitHub repo and then you can continue sort 00:17:31.513 --> 00:17:33.383 of backporting and getting those updates. 00:17:33.443 --> 00:17:33.983 I don't know. 00:17:33.983 --> 00:17:39.623 I'm sure that I feel like 37 signals in the base camp product. 00:17:39.623 --> 00:17:44.863 They've, they've also done this like crazy thing where they rewrite the entire thing. 00:17:44.873 --> 00:17:48.353 They like rewrite the entire code base every so often. 00:17:48.353 --> 00:17:51.583 I don't know if it's every year, every several years, but every time they 00:17:51.583 --> 00:17:54.303 launched a new one, that would have been an opportunity to be like, okay, 00:17:54.783 --> 00:17:58.523 we launched a brand new, like, you know, version seven or whatever of base camp. 00:17:58.563 --> 00:18:01.933 Now you can buy that and download and install it. 00:18:02.543 --> 00:18:06.243 The other one that comes to mind is ScreenFlow, like this, this, the video 00:18:06.273 --> 00:18:10.123 editing software I use, they just give you a version and you can have all 00:18:10.123 --> 00:18:12.553 of the, the minor versions of that. 00:18:12.593 --> 00:18:16.363 Like you can buy ScreenFlow 10 and get all the minor patches or whatever, 00:18:16.363 --> 00:18:17.783 or the patches in the minors. 00:18:17.803 --> 00:18:21.723 But if you want ScreenFlow 11, which I think they release once a year, if you 00:18:21.723 --> 00:18:26.593 want the next one, you got to like pony up for another year's worth of a license or 00:18:26.953 --> 00:18:29.933 Colin: This is like going back to the Adobe model before subscriptions. 00:18:29.963 --> 00:18:30.173 Right. 00:18:30.173 --> 00:18:33.463 And I, I get it like Adobe paying as much as we do. 00:18:33.493 --> 00:18:34.733 I don't pay for it anymore. 00:18:34.733 --> 00:18:38.903 But when I used to use all those tools, it feels like a lot. 00:18:38.913 --> 00:18:41.703 But then if you're, like, if you're a creative professional, it's like 50 00:18:41.703 --> 00:18:45.383 bucks a month for everything makes sense and you don't have to worry about it. 00:18:45.383 --> 00:18:46.443 You don't have to worry about upgrading. 00:18:47.043 --> 00:18:49.583 I know that it doesn't work for hardware, hardware, right? 00:18:49.583 --> 00:18:52.733 So pebble is the thing that comes to mind for me. 00:18:52.733 --> 00:18:56.083 It's like you bought it once and they were really popular, but 00:18:56.083 --> 00:18:59.013 they got all their money at once and they had to pay for hardware. 00:18:59.373 --> 00:19:02.573 And then everyone wants the software updates and then the service went away 00:19:02.573 --> 00:19:05.383 and people can now self hosts rebel. 00:19:05.793 --> 00:19:08.663 Which is like a DIY version of the software. 00:19:08.663 --> 00:19:12.743 But I use a whoop band and like, I pay monthly for that. 00:19:12.793 --> 00:19:17.623 And I'm kind of happy to just because I know it's not going to go anywhere. 00:19:17.733 --> 00:19:21.293 I guess like Apple watches, you buy them once, but Apple's making 00:19:21.293 --> 00:19:24.223 lots of money on your AirPods and everything else that you buy, 00:19:25.583 --> 00:19:29.683 CJ: And usually like for Apple, you have to have the the iPhone to 00:19:29.683 --> 00:19:31.073 go with it for it to make sense. 00:19:31.083 --> 00:19:33.863 And then, so it's kind of just like an add on or expansion revenue. 00:19:34.563 --> 00:19:36.333 Another one that comes to mind is Peloton, right? 00:19:36.333 --> 00:19:39.153 Like you have a big upfront cost to buy the bike. 00:19:39.793 --> 00:19:41.993 And then you also have a recurring cost. 00:19:41.993 --> 00:19:43.373 And so they've kind of like split it. 00:19:43.873 --> 00:19:49.973 So I don't imagine wanting to like rent the bike and, but I do feel 00:19:49.983 --> 00:19:53.953 fine, like paying the monthly fee for the, to get access to the classes. 00:19:54.363 --> 00:19:57.383 So yeah, it's, they're kind of like selling two different things 00:19:57.383 --> 00:19:59.403 there, but yeah, I don't know. 00:19:59.403 --> 00:19:59.993 It's interesting. 00:19:59.993 --> 00:20:03.773 I think one thing that I really like about the idea is that. 00:20:04.593 --> 00:20:09.443 For me, one of the hardest things to swallow with building a SAS and 00:20:09.603 --> 00:20:15.103 charging a recurring subscription is that you kind of are signing up for a 00:20:15.103 --> 00:20:18.423 commitment to those users that you're going to stick around and you're going to 00:20:18.433 --> 00:20:20.263 support them, especially if they start. 00:20:20.718 --> 00:20:22.258 Buying annual subscriptions. 00:20:22.688 --> 00:20:28.788 When I built that that little tool a while ago, the that little SAS product 00:20:28.798 --> 00:20:33.848 that did Facebook integration, I had some people sign up on, on annual 00:20:33.858 --> 00:20:35.748 memberships and I didn't even like. 00:20:36.768 --> 00:20:38.438 Like keep the thing for a year. 00:20:38.458 --> 00:20:41.608 Like I built it and I had it for like nine months and I sold it off to 00:20:41.608 --> 00:20:45.288 someone else and then like they ran with it, but there were customers that 00:20:45.288 --> 00:20:49.138 signed up for a year and I like wasn't even around after, after I sold it. 00:20:49.138 --> 00:20:51.628 And so it, it does, you feel, I don't know. 00:20:51.648 --> 00:20:55.318 I felt a lot of pressure, like, okay, if someone signs up and pays for a year, 00:20:55.318 --> 00:20:57.008 you gotta like support them for the year. 00:20:57.678 --> 00:21:01.548 Obviously there's ways around that, but the buy once and you get some 00:21:01.548 --> 00:21:05.298 code that's seems pretty attractive from the business side, at least. 00:21:05.853 --> 00:21:07.903 Colin: and they haven't announced what products they're 00:21:07.903 --> 00:21:09.183 going to do this with, right? 00:21:09.193 --> 00:21:11.523 Like, are they going to do a CRM? 00:21:11.573 --> 00:21:14.633 And when you think about what it costs to have Basecamp or whatever, 00:21:14.633 --> 00:21:16.183 I don't know if we don't know, right? 00:21:16.193 --> 00:21:17.653 They just put out this statement. 00:21:18.143 --> 00:21:22.413 But like, I don't think people should expect that it's going to be 200, right? 00:21:22.423 --> 00:21:27.663 If it's business software for small businesses, it's not Salesforce, but it's 00:21:28.158 --> 00:21:31.988 The new base camp or high rise or whatever it is that they're going to do again, 00:21:32.628 --> 00:21:35.358 is it 20, 000 and you own it forever? 00:21:35.788 --> 00:21:38.568 And now business is just like, Oh yeah, we're going to invest in this thing. 00:21:38.568 --> 00:21:40.558 And we own the code and we're going to get the updates. 00:21:40.558 --> 00:21:44.898 And you can reasonably expect that if enough people buy that at 20, 000, you're, 00:21:44.948 --> 00:21:46.318 you've got a really strong business. 00:21:46.338 --> 00:21:51.028 And you come up with that number based on like how long the average customer. 00:21:51.343 --> 00:21:55.673 You know, sticks around times, whatever you would have charged for a monthly SAS. 00:21:55.673 --> 00:21:58.683 And, you know, like you said, get rid of churn and some of these 00:21:58.683 --> 00:21:59.803 other things that you have to do. 00:21:59.803 --> 00:22:02.733 And pulling all the revenue forward is also huge. 00:22:02.733 --> 00:22:07.393 Like you can hire, you can plan around having that versus like with SAS, you 00:22:07.393 --> 00:22:08.713 don't know when people are going to leave. 00:22:10.403 --> 00:22:13.433 CJ: even with a SaaS, like you have to try to calculate the lifetime 00:22:13.433 --> 00:22:15.533 value of the customer and then 00:22:16.653 --> 00:22:20.003 Colin: while you're while you're moving like you're on a train 00:22:21.458 --> 00:22:21.818 CJ: Yeah, 00:22:21.993 --> 00:22:24.383 Colin: to figure out how long the train track is and you're like, well, we 00:22:24.383 --> 00:22:27.493 don't really know We're just gonna keep putting more railing in front of us and 00:22:27.493 --> 00:22:29.553 hope the train doesn't go off a cliff 00:22:30.148 --> 00:22:30.658 CJ: Totally. 00:22:30.778 --> 00:22:31.258 Totally. 00:22:32.308 --> 00:22:32.608 Yeah. 00:22:32.668 --> 00:22:33.118 I don't know. 00:22:33.178 --> 00:22:33.778 It's interesting. 00:22:33.808 --> 00:22:36.108 We'll see how it goes, but I would encourage people to 00:22:36.108 --> 00:22:37.938 just think about it, I guess. 00:22:38.928 --> 00:22:43.228 So are, I think you were, you were doing some Terraform stuff. 00:22:44.088 --> 00:22:45.528 At work, right? 00:22:45.548 --> 00:22:48.638 Was that like part of the calendaring thing or something 00:22:48.763 --> 00:22:49.503 Colin: Just playing with it. 00:22:49.523 --> 00:22:54.943 We use some terraform templates for like Doing well, what do we 00:22:54.943 --> 00:22:56.473 do it for mostly for Google Cloud? 00:22:57.113 --> 00:22:58.783 Orchestration stuff. 00:22:58.853 --> 00:23:05.423 But yeah, I guess in this same vein is, are you kind of referring to the 00:23:05.423 --> 00:23:07.093 HashiCorp changes and stuff that they've 00:23:07.158 --> 00:23:07.658 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:07.658 --> 00:23:07.898 Yeah. 00:23:07.898 --> 00:23:08.278 Yeah 00:23:08.833 --> 00:23:11.793 Colin: Yeah, I guess this is a little bit different than the once model but 00:23:11.803 --> 00:23:15.443 it's similar to relying on your tools. 00:23:15.533 --> 00:23:20.323 And so HashiCorp is, I think they already have rolled out the BSL, the 00:23:20.333 --> 00:23:24.093 business software license and they're moving away from a Mozilla license. 00:23:24.783 --> 00:23:27.363 And so I just kind of wanted to throw this in here as, as 00:23:27.363 --> 00:23:29.863 an aside to so many companies. 00:23:30.048 --> 00:23:33.428 Building and relying on your tooling, whether it's software or 00:23:33.438 --> 00:23:36.208 open source code and how that looks. 00:23:36.228 --> 00:23:39.928 Because I, like, I'd be curious, what is the licensing for the 00:23:39.928 --> 00:23:42.648 code that you buy for once, right? 00:23:42.878 --> 00:23:45.838 I'm assuming you don't get to, it's going to be like some sort of 00:23:45.868 --> 00:23:47.718 proprietary license, most likely. 00:23:48.258 --> 00:23:48.508 Right. 00:23:48.508 --> 00:23:50.898 You're not going to be able to make, well, I mean, you will be 00:23:50.898 --> 00:23:53.628 able to make changes to it, but can you distribute those changes? 00:23:54.148 --> 00:23:57.988 Can you then sell plugins to this software and stuff like that? 00:23:58.308 --> 00:23:59.878 That will be interesting to see. 00:23:59.978 --> 00:24:04.698 The BSL was kind of contentious in the community because they 00:24:04.698 --> 00:24:05.938 just didn't feel as open. 00:24:06.078 --> 00:24:11.278 From my perspective, it seems like they did it to prevent like Amazon from just 00:24:11.308 --> 00:24:13.278 taking the code and saying, we now have. 00:24:13.518 --> 00:24:17.278 Our own version of Terraform using all the stuff that HashiCorp 00:24:17.298 --> 00:24:19.148 and all of the contributors did. 00:24:19.708 --> 00:24:23.848 But now there's this initiative from the Linux Foundation and 00:24:23.848 --> 00:24:28.738 a bunch of contributors called OpenTofu which is an open Terraform 00:24:28.818 --> 00:24:34.348 alternative, backwards compatible and like kind of neutral leadership. 00:24:35.498 --> 00:24:35.818 CJ: Cool. 00:24:36.758 --> 00:24:41.348 Yeah, all all of the infrastructure stuff is just so terrifying 00:24:41.348 --> 00:24:44.118 to me and like I don't know. 00:24:44.118 --> 00:24:50.318 It's just so fiddly and just kind of like, intimidates me a lot and I find that kind 00:24:50.318 --> 00:24:55.588 of work very Frustrating, like working with NGINX or working with like setting up 00:24:55.588 --> 00:24:57.328 a Terraform thing and getting it deployed. 00:24:57.348 --> 00:25:01.018 And I'm like, just give me my Heroku or like, you know, just like, I just want 00:25:01.018 --> 00:25:05.428 like a nice tidy little sandbox for sell or whatever that I can deploy to. 00:25:05.428 --> 00:25:09.318 And I don't have to worry about, you know, certain services and their versions 00:25:09.328 --> 00:25:14.438 and their box sizes and the whatever, you know, and fallback conditions and 00:25:14.948 --> 00:25:17.098 certificates and all this other business. 00:25:17.108 --> 00:25:17.408 So, 00:25:18.203 --> 00:25:20.203 Colin: this is the stuff that AI can take from us. 00:25:20.203 --> 00:25:21.693 Please, please take this away. 00:25:22.503 --> 00:25:28.163 And ChatGBT is actually pretty good at Terraform templates, like, because they're 00:25:28.163 --> 00:25:32.333 so role based, and I'd be curious to see if they've gotten better since the, the 00:25:32.353 --> 00:25:38.553 backdated The kind of date line has moved forward is that now all the new data 00:25:38.593 --> 00:25:42.683 that's in there should be able to help, but like, you can give it the structure 00:25:42.683 --> 00:25:47.053 and it'll be like, well, that doesn't have access to that, or like, I'll give 00:25:47.053 --> 00:25:49.773 it the error message and the terraform. 00:25:49.803 --> 00:25:52.093 And it'll be like, yeah, you totally missed this piece in this 00:25:52.093 --> 00:25:55.323 piece, because like in the case of Google Cloud, it also knows about 00:25:55.323 --> 00:25:57.753 the Google Cloud APIs and Docs. 00:25:57.753 --> 00:26:00.723 And so it's able to just say like, yeah, you totally missed this, like. 00:26:01.273 --> 00:26:03.233 Permission ACL or whatever. 00:26:03.313 --> 00:26:04.413 That's usually what it is. 00:26:04.453 --> 00:26:05.813 It's like permissions all the way down. 00:26:06.338 --> 00:26:06.808 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:07.038 --> 00:26:07.498 Okay. 00:26:08.268 --> 00:26:12.538 Are you, when you say when you give it to chat, GBT, is that like in, you're talking 00:26:12.538 --> 00:26:16.898 about like in your editor with Copilot recently, or are you just like pasting it 00:26:16.908 --> 00:26:18.038 in or kind of like what's your workflow? 00:26:19.243 --> 00:26:22.473 Colin: I actually don't have copilot in my VS code. 00:26:22.673 --> 00:26:25.253 I need to figure like we use coder at work. 00:26:25.253 --> 00:26:27.503 So we have like virtual instances and stuff. 00:26:28.133 --> 00:26:29.533 I know I can figure it out. 00:26:29.533 --> 00:26:30.383 I just haven't. 00:26:31.008 --> 00:26:31.588 Done it yet. 00:26:32.098 --> 00:26:37.578 And then, so I, sometimes I'll just pop open chat GPT and paste in 00:26:38.218 --> 00:26:39.908 anything that's like not sensitive. 00:26:39.908 --> 00:26:42.988 I'll just do like, this is what it looks like to deploy a box 00:26:43.008 --> 00:26:44.538 to GCP, regardless of who you 00:26:44.678 --> 00:26:45.058 CJ: Mm 00:26:45.378 --> 00:26:48.398 Colin: And then I also have my own personal GCP account that I'll 00:26:48.398 --> 00:26:52.728 like go do it myself on my own box, just to make sure it's like 00:26:52.738 --> 00:26:54.188 actually does what I want it to do. 00:26:54.188 --> 00:26:55.908 And then I'll replicate it at work. 00:26:56.553 --> 00:26:57.013 CJ: Nice. 00:26:57.053 --> 00:27:01.653 Yeah, I find myself kind of jumping between the editor and the browser, 00:27:01.683 --> 00:27:05.043 like the chat GPT browser and just kind of like messing around. 00:27:05.093 --> 00:27:08.973 But I have also noticed, I don't know if it's just me hallucinating that now, but 00:27:08.973 --> 00:27:10.903 like, I feel like it's getting better. 00:27:11.423 --> 00:27:17.073 Like the autocomplete from co pilot, it has been just so freaking good the 00:27:17.073 --> 00:27:21.483 last couple of weeks, or I'm like, man, I don't know if it's part of the, maybe 00:27:21.483 --> 00:27:23.173 it was the change related to, Thank you. 00:27:23.998 --> 00:27:27.008 The cutoff or something, but it feels so good. 00:27:27.008 --> 00:27:31.408 Now, like, I don't know, maybe I'm also just doing a lot of stuff that 00:27:31.408 --> 00:27:35.288 is repetitive and conventional and not like too far off the beaten path. 00:27:35.288 --> 00:27:35.818 And so 00:27:36.548 --> 00:27:38.888 Colin: I'll have to look at it again because I've mostly been writing 00:27:40.078 --> 00:27:43.568 markdown So not as much like I'm like, I don't want you to try to 00:27:43.618 --> 00:27:45.038 tell me what I'm about to write 00:27:45.548 --> 00:27:45.848 CJ: Yeah. 00:27:46.598 --> 00:27:50.538 Colin: we just Kind of speaking of things that we're working on this week. 00:27:50.968 --> 00:27:56.573 We just launched documentation around being able to Have premium apps in 00:27:56.573 --> 00:28:01.293 discord so you can have an app and then you can charge subscriptions for your 00:28:01.303 --> 00:28:06.333 app And it's all stripe under the hood, but you as a developer don't need to 00:28:06.623 --> 00:28:12.393 touch stripe so we do all the payouts and all that kind of stuff So that's still 00:28:12.403 --> 00:28:14.783 very new and only available in the u. 00:28:14.783 --> 00:28:19.193 s but that was like my first big documentation project was just documenting 00:28:19.193 --> 00:28:23.018 like What are the endpoints and how do you use this thing and what are the 00:28:23.018 --> 00:28:24.688 best practices and stuff like that. 00:28:24.688 --> 00:28:28.738 So, chat GPT is not going to be super helpful with something like that. 00:28:28.868 --> 00:28:29.628 At least not yet. 00:28:30.373 --> 00:28:30.753 CJ: Yeah. 00:28:30.753 --> 00:28:34.543 Like you've, you've got to be the one who is creating the original content 00:28:34.553 --> 00:28:39.683 that will answer all future questions by chat about that sounds awesome. 00:28:39.693 --> 00:28:48.413 So like yeah, anyone building apps on discord can now collect money for 00:28:49.888 --> 00:28:52.588 Colin: A little bit opposite of the one time purchase model, but 00:28:52.618 --> 00:28:55.658 if you want to build a SaaS on top of Discord, you can do it. 00:28:56.173 --> 00:28:56.563 CJ: All right. 00:28:56.613 --> 00:28:58.093 Is there, do you have like. 00:28:58.478 --> 00:29:01.408 Business ideas that you could share or like app ideas that you could 00:29:01.408 --> 00:29:04.658 share with the audience that are like, Oh, people would probably 00:29:04.658 --> 00:29:05.828 pay for this if you built it. 00:29:06.348 --> 00:29:09.528 Colin: Oh man, yeah, I mean, we kind of take that stance with most things 00:29:09.538 --> 00:29:13.258 like we would rather the community build the apps than us build them. 00:29:13.258 --> 00:29:17.238 So if it's something that you've used in Slack and you don't see 00:29:17.238 --> 00:29:20.468 it in Discord It's probably a good chance that it's a good one. 00:29:20.928 --> 00:29:25.503 I think the most popular one That's like kind of more of like a business case. 00:29:25.503 --> 00:29:29.323 This is called ticket tool and they will turn they'll like do 00:29:29.323 --> 00:29:33.163 ticket syncing and like case management type stuff and discord. 00:29:33.163 --> 00:29:37.763 So I know they're using the new premium app stuff, but yeah 00:29:38.818 --> 00:29:39.228 CJ: Awesome. 00:29:39.268 --> 00:29:39.508 Yeah. 00:29:39.508 --> 00:29:42.758 I would imagine there's going to be a billion AI things that are like, 00:29:42.768 --> 00:29:46.088 look at your discord channel and then try to predict the answers to 00:29:46.088 --> 00:29:47.838 questions from customers or whatever. 00:29:48.738 --> 00:29:53.008 Colin: I mean you guys used it at stripe you guys use discord for support but 00:29:53.008 --> 00:29:56.248 not in like a bot or ai type of way. 00:29:56.248 --> 00:30:01.038 It was very Human generated but could be could be interesting. 00:30:01.068 --> 00:30:04.518 There's a lot of answers in that discord that could help 00:30:05.163 --> 00:30:08.473 CJ: And in IRC history, cause you can go back to like the beginning 00:30:08.473 --> 00:30:13.403 of Stripe time in the IRC logs and see like every question ever asked 00:30:13.733 --> 00:30:18.623 and answer ever answered in the public forum and use that to train. 00:30:19.053 --> 00:30:23.503 In fact, I tried this like 2019 ish and I had no idea what I was doing, so it 00:30:23.503 --> 00:30:26.203 didn't work, but you could theoretically. 00:30:26.338 --> 00:30:27.358 Colin: in ai days. 00:30:27.758 --> 00:30:28.268 CJ: Yeah. 00:30:29.018 --> 00:30:29.888 Yeah, you can get there. 00:30:29.938 --> 00:30:31.388 You can get there for sure. 00:30:31.628 --> 00:30:34.348 So your calendaring app, is that going to be the new hit app? 00:30:34.898 --> 00:30:36.778 The new hit premium app on discord. 00:30:36.928 --> 00:30:41.828 Colin: I have not touched that in I guess it feels like months, but a few weeks 00:30:41.828 --> 00:30:44.508 now So we'll see that's still very much. 00:30:44.588 --> 00:30:49.198 Close to the chest app not available yet, but we'll get it working first, then i'll 00:30:49.198 --> 00:30:53.078 start thinking it's like do you want to charge a subscription to create events? 00:30:53.293 --> 00:30:53.923 In your calendar? 00:30:53.943 --> 00:30:54.443 Probably not. 00:30:55.043 --> 00:30:57.803 I think you have to, you have to pay me if you want to book some time. 00:30:58.323 --> 00:31:03.573 CJ: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I guess maybe we did a little handoff 00:31:03.603 --> 00:31:06.773 then I've been doing a lot of calendaring stuff lately in our app. 00:31:07.373 --> 00:31:11.753 Yeah, we're building out a view so you can see all the projects 00:31:11.753 --> 00:31:15.673 that are upcoming breakdowns by like, you know, what project type. 00:31:16.128 --> 00:31:19.438 So we have certain teams that can do different kinds of stuff. 00:31:19.458 --> 00:31:23.018 If it's interior exteriors, we have like Gantt charts and all these resource 00:31:23.018 --> 00:31:28.848 calendars and all of the like drag and drops, dragging an event from one day 00:31:28.848 --> 00:31:32.338 to another day, or like extending it by dragging it, all the things that you would 00:31:32.338 --> 00:31:34.958 expect from Google calendar are just. 00:31:35.558 --> 00:31:41.048 So crazy hard to implement, but full calendar is this library that we're using. 00:31:41.358 --> 00:31:45.638 And so we're using like this react component and we have a couple 00:31:45.638 --> 00:31:48.948 of API endpoints for giving you the list of events and giving you 00:31:48.948 --> 00:31:54.138 the list of properties or like resources or whatever, and then. 00:31:54.508 --> 00:31:59.498 Those end points can be filtered based on a start and end and then full calendar 00:31:59.498 --> 00:32:02.738 just does everything for you so it's fetching like exactly what it needs and 00:32:02.738 --> 00:32:09.268 just so it's a little bit of rendering a little bit of CSS hacking and Yeah, 00:32:09.278 --> 00:32:10.408 it seems to be working pretty well. 00:32:10.448 --> 00:32:12.308 So that was pretty pretty fun to build 00:32:13.033 --> 00:32:13.393 Colin: Nice. 00:32:13.443 --> 00:32:17.763 I was going to ask what you use for that because Tailwind has really cool 00:32:18.453 --> 00:32:20.593 UI for it, but it's no JavaScript. 00:32:20.613 --> 00:32:23.003 It's like just the CSS and it's beautiful. 00:32:23.003 --> 00:32:24.473 And I was like, oh, I really want this. 00:32:25.183 --> 00:32:28.423 But then I was like, do I want to implement the clicking and 00:32:28.423 --> 00:32:29.943 dragging and all this stuff. 00:32:30.043 --> 00:32:30.803 No, I don't. 00:32:31.073 --> 00:32:31.713 CJ: noop. 00:32:31.923 --> 00:32:32.243 Noop. 00:32:32.333 --> 00:32:32.493 Noop. 00:32:32.553 --> 00:32:32.753 Noop. 00:32:32.793 --> 00:32:33.443 Yeah, we use 00:32:33.563 --> 00:32:35.933 Colin: out there's a whole team at Google that does this. 00:32:36.218 --> 00:32:37.098 CJ: Not surprised. 00:32:37.108 --> 00:32:37.368 Yeah. 00:32:38.338 --> 00:32:42.618 We use the, the tailwind UI calendar view when our calendar was just static. 00:32:42.678 --> 00:32:47.388 And then when we were like, okay, this needs to be, you know, higher 00:32:47.388 --> 00:32:48.968 fidelity and more interactive. 00:32:48.998 --> 00:32:51.598 Then we're like, okay, what are some libraries that do this? 00:32:51.608 --> 00:32:52.918 So full calendar worked. 00:32:53.728 --> 00:32:54.178 And then 00:32:54.423 --> 00:32:57.193 Colin: has a Tailwind, like, theme or something. 00:32:57.193 --> 00:32:57.863 That would be cool. 00:32:58.378 --> 00:33:02.218 CJ: I don't think so, at least it's not documented, but they do 00:33:02.228 --> 00:33:05.168 have bootstrap and material UI. 00:33:05.238 --> 00:33:08.358 It's like, yeah, I think it's a bit of an older library, but. 00:33:10.213 --> 00:33:15.528 Works well, I mean, I think they could probably Benefit from an 00:33:15.628 --> 00:33:17.838 another theme, the tailwind theme, 00:33:17.933 --> 00:33:21.153 Colin: that might be easier than me implementing all the other stuff. 00:33:21.908 --> 00:33:24.368 CJ: yeah, it's, it's really not that bad. 00:33:24.378 --> 00:33:28.718 And like, there are tons of classes, so you can kind of say like, Oh, 00:33:28.718 --> 00:33:33.248 I want to modify the background color of the weekends or something. 00:33:33.248 --> 00:33:39.048 And so you can you can target like FC dash day dash sun or whatever. 00:33:39.058 --> 00:33:41.888 And that'll like, lets you get access to all the Sunday. 00:33:42.543 --> 00:33:43.723 Day cells or whatever. 00:33:43.723 --> 00:33:47.913 And so they have like tons of classes around that you can just target with CSS. 00:33:48.403 --> 00:33:48.693 And then 00:33:48.943 --> 00:33:51.373 Colin: little counter to the Tailwind 00:33:51.623 --> 00:33:54.283 CJ: it's opposite of tailwind for sure, but it lets you get like 00:33:54.283 --> 00:33:57.373 the same results of like, you know, styling it how you need to. 00:33:57.533 --> 00:34:00.083 Which yeah, works fine. 00:34:00.743 --> 00:34:05.473 And then this week has been super fun, bunch of API and webhook stuff. 00:34:06.003 --> 00:34:09.613 And inside of the jumpstart pro starter kit. 00:34:10.168 --> 00:34:14.218 There is a generator for making these little API wrappers so 00:34:14.218 --> 00:34:17.308 that you don't have to install like full gems for third parties. 00:34:17.728 --> 00:34:22.008 So you just say like rails, G API client, and then, you know, whatever third party. 00:34:23.038 --> 00:34:26.768 And I wanted to like extend that a little bit to make it. 00:34:27.623 --> 00:34:28.793 Generate even more. 00:34:28.823 --> 00:34:33.333 So I like this week I've been learning a ton about rails generators and just 00:34:33.333 --> 00:34:40.073 trying to like wrap my head around all the hooks that are built by the rail side 00:34:40.083 --> 00:34:45.423 versus the hooks that are built by Thor, which is the command line interface gem. 00:34:45.993 --> 00:34:46.633 And. 00:34:47.468 --> 00:34:51.358 So I wanted to like improve that, the API client generator for us so 00:34:51.358 --> 00:34:52.718 that we can move a little bit faster. 00:34:53.258 --> 00:34:55.328 And so I made like a little video of that. 00:34:55.378 --> 00:34:57.778 It'll be up next, next Friday. 00:34:58.238 --> 00:35:01.218 And then also I want to do it for enums too, because something 00:35:01.218 --> 00:35:02.548 that we do a ton in our. 00:35:02.878 --> 00:35:07.868 Application is like, we'll put a column in the database that is an integer, 00:35:07.928 --> 00:35:11.838 and then we add the enum field to the model and then add a couple of 00:35:11.838 --> 00:35:13.518 different, you know, enum values. 00:35:13.528 --> 00:35:19.648 But then in the form and in a couple other places, like we have to go in and change 00:35:19.648 --> 00:35:24.778 it from being like a number input or a text input to being like a select dropdown 00:35:24.778 --> 00:35:26.828 and like titilize the enum and like do 00:35:26.963 --> 00:35:27.143 Colin: it. 00:35:27.213 --> 00:35:27.533 Yeah. 00:35:27.673 --> 00:35:28.663 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:35:28.663 --> 00:35:32.943 And so I want to make it so that you can say like rails G model, and then 00:35:32.943 --> 00:35:37.013 instead of giving it a status integer, I want to give it status like integer 00:35:37.023 --> 00:35:42.703 enum or something, or maybe just enum and then have it generate the mod, like 00:35:42.703 --> 00:35:46.943 the, the model and the forms for us with. 00:35:47.518 --> 00:35:48.698 The, the defaults. 00:35:49.098 --> 00:35:52.958 And so, yeah, it was like deep diving into the rails code base 00:35:52.958 --> 00:35:55.308 this week, just trying to figure out how, like all that stuff works. 00:35:55.308 --> 00:35:56.738 And yeah, it's exciting. 00:35:56.748 --> 00:36:01.268 I think like generators and rails have always been one of those things 00:36:01.268 --> 00:36:03.688 that are kind of magical a little bit. 00:36:03.698 --> 00:36:05.428 Cause it's just like, how did that happen? 00:36:05.428 --> 00:36:09.288 Like it made 20 files for me, like controllers and tests and 00:36:09.288 --> 00:36:10.408 fixtures and all this stuff. 00:36:11.088 --> 00:36:11.758 And Yeah. 00:36:11.758 --> 00:36:16.198 So it's, it's kind of fun to demystify that a bit and make our team faster. 00:36:16.208 --> 00:36:20.158 And so hopefully we'll upstream that too, back into jumpstart. 00:36:20.158 --> 00:36:25.028 So other people who use it in the future can make their API wrappers faster. 00:36:25.258 --> 00:36:25.588 So 00:36:25.983 --> 00:36:26.423 Colin: Nice. 00:36:26.773 --> 00:36:27.303 That's cool. 00:36:28.033 --> 00:36:32.413 Yeah, I played with generators a tiny bit, but they're super powerful. 00:36:32.413 --> 00:36:36.793 It's just a lot of templates and boilerplate and all of that. 00:36:37.718 --> 00:36:38.088 CJ: Yeah. 00:36:38.708 --> 00:36:41.488 One of the things that's cool too, about jumpstart, how gosh, I'm 00:36:41.658 --> 00:36:46.718 becoming such a jumpstart fan boy is the Chris has added, I mean, like in 00:36:46.718 --> 00:36:48.838 the template itself, it has its own. 00:36:49.493 --> 00:36:53.653 Generator customizations, but there's a bunch of stuff in there 00:36:54.673 --> 00:36:58.743 that he kind of shows examples for certain patterns within rails. 00:36:58.773 --> 00:37:00.143 And you're like, Oh, that's how that works. 00:37:00.443 --> 00:37:00.963 Cool. 00:37:00.973 --> 00:37:01.553 Let me just. 00:37:01.978 --> 00:37:04.588 Make my own, or let me just extend that a little bit, or let 00:37:04.588 --> 00:37:06.378 me just tweak that a little bit. 00:37:06.378 --> 00:37:11.478 And then I feel like it's kind of like having a, a rails app with 00:37:11.478 --> 00:37:13.428 like a little bit there already. 00:37:13.468 --> 00:37:18.168 So you can see how other people might access different features and it kind 00:37:18.168 --> 00:37:21.328 of, it's, it's both sort of like a jumping off point, but also like a. 00:37:21.728 --> 00:37:22.728 A learning tool. 00:37:22.748 --> 00:37:28.928 Whereas when you just like rails knew something, you kind of have to understand 00:37:29.148 --> 00:37:31.638 a lot about rails to figure out, you know, 00:37:32.123 --> 00:37:32.423 Colin: Right. 00:37:32.708 --> 00:37:36.668 Which is interesting because Rails, right, right, Rails was extracted from 00:37:37.068 --> 00:37:42.448 the OG Basecamp as like a tool for building apps and potentially businesses, 00:37:42.448 --> 00:37:46.898 whereas Jumpstart's like, yeah, here's your Rails, but also here's all these 00:37:46.908 --> 00:37:48.978 things that like over time we've seen. 00:37:49.438 --> 00:37:50.718 Everyone tries to do this. 00:37:50.888 --> 00:37:52.758 And does it 10 different ways. 00:37:52.758 --> 00:37:53.848 This is a jumpstart way. 00:37:54.378 --> 00:37:56.038 Or here's a way you could think about it. 00:37:56.038 --> 00:37:57.078 If you like it, use it. 00:37:57.078 --> 00:37:58.688 If you don't like it, do it your own way. 00:37:59.278 --> 00:38:03.138 And I feel like gems are always another way to, to customize all that stuff too. 00:38:03.138 --> 00:38:06.298 But yeah, that's pretty cool. 00:38:07.018 --> 00:38:07.858 CJ: Yeah, it's fun. 00:38:08.488 --> 00:38:08.748 I don't know. 00:38:08.748 --> 00:38:12.068 Maybe the, the enum generator thing will be a gem first. 00:38:12.278 --> 00:38:15.048 But there isn't like proper support. 00:38:15.078 --> 00:38:18.328 There's like full support for enums in Postgres. 00:38:18.658 --> 00:38:22.668 So you can have like an enum data type in your database table. 00:38:23.328 --> 00:38:27.668 And in your database, like what's it called? 00:38:27.868 --> 00:38:28.988 Not, not your like. 00:38:29.968 --> 00:38:36.498 Not your SQL, but like the, the language that you use to change tables and stuff. 00:38:36.698 --> 00:38:39.698 I can't remember anyways, when you're doing like an create table 00:38:39.698 --> 00:38:42.558 statement or whatever, you have to do like a create enum statement 00:38:42.568 --> 00:38:44.738 and tell it here's the values. 00:38:44.768 --> 00:38:48.788 And then that almost creates kind of like a mini it's, I kind of think 00:38:48.788 --> 00:38:51.978 of it as like a mini table inside of Postgres that you're joining against 00:38:51.998 --> 00:38:55.288 versus just having like the integers in there mapped to something else. 00:38:55.318 --> 00:38:57.588 But one of the things that I'm finding is. 00:38:59.353 --> 00:39:02.563 We're using this other gem called blazer, which is kind of like this BI tool 00:39:02.563 --> 00:39:05.363 that lets you write SQL queries and. 00:39:06.283 --> 00:39:13.833 I want to add like a chat GPT integration where you can just use natural language to 00:39:13.843 --> 00:39:20.593 ask it questions and it'll send the schema and give you back SQL that will run. 00:39:20.903 --> 00:39:26.333 But the problem is that the SQL statements don't know about the, 00:39:26.353 --> 00:39:29.583 all the enum values because they're just numbers in the database. 00:39:29.613 --> 00:39:33.443 And so like, if you're looking at, for example, like the 00:39:33.443 --> 00:39:35.123 sales status on a project. 00:39:35.653 --> 00:39:38.843 It's just going to be a number between zero and 10 or something, but if you 00:39:38.843 --> 00:39:42.873 want to know, Oh, show me all the projects that are in the one state, 00:39:43.283 --> 00:39:46.543 then like, you know, or the lost state, then you need to know like, 00:39:46.563 --> 00:39:48.513 Oh, that's number two or number three. 00:39:48.853 --> 00:39:50.643 So like as part of the. 00:39:52.033 --> 00:39:53.853 Yeah, as part of the query. 00:39:53.853 --> 00:39:56.633 Yeah, you need to do like a bunch of these, you know, like the SQL statement 00:39:56.633 --> 00:40:00.163 will just have like case when, when it's one, it's like pending when it's 00:40:00.163 --> 00:40:03.573 two, it's delivered when it's three, it's one when it's four, it's hold 00:40:03.573 --> 00:40:07.093 or whatever, you know, kind of like figuring out all the different statuses. 00:40:07.423 --> 00:40:10.673 Which isn't as nice as just being able to say like where the 00:40:10.673 --> 00:40:12.513 status equals one as a string. 00:40:12.943 --> 00:40:13.423 So 00:40:13.743 --> 00:40:16.563 Colin: inject those enums in the, like, prompt? 00:40:17.303 --> 00:40:17.993 Automatically? 00:40:18.433 --> 00:40:21.003 CJ: yeah, so the usually the way that I construct the prompt right 00:40:21.003 --> 00:40:22.223 now, I'm doing it all like manually. 00:40:22.223 --> 00:40:25.143 So I'll just paste in parts of the schema that I know I want 00:40:25.143 --> 00:40:26.913 to write a query against into. 00:40:27.468 --> 00:40:31.818 The code like, or a chat GPT, and then I'll also copy parts of the 00:40:31.818 --> 00:40:33.628 model that have the enum things. 00:40:34.108 --> 00:40:37.068 And then I'll say, okay, this is, you know, from the model, this is 00:40:37.068 --> 00:40:39.438 my schema prepared to write a query. 00:40:39.498 --> 00:40:44.368 Then I just say like, okay, show me, you know, sales week by week, grouped 00:40:44.368 --> 00:40:48.498 by project type you know, split out the revenue this way or that way or whatever. 00:40:48.588 --> 00:40:51.078 And so I don't know, I guess I'm. 00:40:52.468 --> 00:40:54.698 Kind of convincing myself that I should have used string values 00:40:54.698 --> 00:40:56.938 for enums, but it's what I work. 00:40:56.983 --> 00:40:59.613 Colin: That's a, that's another holy waller for a different day. 00:41:00.028 --> 00:41:00.618 CJ: Yes. 00:41:00.638 --> 00:41:01.038 Yes. 00:41:01.078 --> 00:41:01.348 Yes. 00:41:01.348 --> 00:41:01.768 Yes. 00:41:04.258 --> 00:41:08.648 Cool Yeah, anything you're learning this week? 00:41:09.753 --> 00:41:12.443 Colin: Kind of go back to the docs for a second. 00:41:12.483 --> 00:41:16.923 I'm playing around with some, like, text linting, like, 00:41:17.268 --> 00:41:18.518 CJ: Oh Nice. 00:41:19.053 --> 00:41:24.593 Colin: standardizing How we format our tables, but also like when you refer 00:41:24.593 --> 00:41:28.503 to a certain feature as uppercase or lowercase, is it consistent? 00:41:28.933 --> 00:41:32.633 So I found some blog posts from like Netlify and some others who do this pretty 00:41:32.633 --> 00:41:37.833 well And we're trying to work on a style guide there because right now we do PRs 00:41:37.853 --> 00:41:43.203 against our docs like we allow people to do PRs against the docs publicly and style 00:41:43.203 --> 00:41:45.783 is All over the place, which is fine. 00:41:46.083 --> 00:41:49.883 It'd be nice to lint on it and just that way they can fix it themselves instead of 00:41:49.883 --> 00:41:52.223 us, you know, punting it back in a review. 00:41:53.033 --> 00:41:53.513 And then it helps 00:41:53.568 --> 00:41:54.018 CJ: you do? 00:41:54.558 --> 00:41:55.448 Yeah, how do you do? 00:41:55.458 --> 00:41:59.028 Like the code samples in the docs. 00:42:00.043 --> 00:42:00.603 Colin: right now. 00:42:00.603 --> 00:42:02.733 They are just code blocks in Markdown. 00:42:02.943 --> 00:42:04.763 Like we have like an MDX. 00:42:05.073 --> 00:42:06.483 like component for code. 00:42:06.953 --> 00:42:12.143 But yeah, we're looking at eventually how do we like pull in each of those? 00:42:12.163 --> 00:42:15.583 Cause I think we've talked about like, how do you have the code samples? 00:42:15.763 --> 00:42:18.073 We have less code samples and more like just. 00:42:19.123 --> 00:42:23.833 Json responses and stuff in our tutorials we have some code samples, but we 00:42:23.833 --> 00:42:29.193 usually just link out to the github repo which then have tests and things but 00:42:29.193 --> 00:42:33.843 it'd be nice to have tests against the code samples when we try to do prettier 00:42:33.843 --> 00:42:38.253 against our markdown it like Formats the code and then also formats the markdown. 00:42:38.263 --> 00:42:42.823 And then like some of our MDX components, it does not like it breaks like 00:42:42.823 --> 00:42:44.713 collapsible menus and stuff like that. 00:42:44.713 --> 00:42:46.583 So we're playing around with that. 00:42:46.583 --> 00:42:48.543 And I would love to see us use markdocs. 00:42:48.553 --> 00:42:53.023 So that's also on the table, but kind of just like tooling around 00:42:53.033 --> 00:42:54.343 docs, which is really interesting. 00:42:54.343 --> 00:42:57.783 There's like ones that are kind of like grammarly too, where it's like, 00:42:57.783 --> 00:43:00.363 this doesn't quite read like it should. 00:43:01.008 --> 00:43:02.298 And that's all just for English. 00:43:02.318 --> 00:43:07.098 Like, I think it'll be interesting to see, like, do we translate all the docs? 00:43:07.108 --> 00:43:10.488 We, we released like our getting started guide in eight languages. 00:43:11.078 --> 00:43:15.908 But we've been finding the, the translations are difficult when 00:43:15.908 --> 00:43:20.418 you're talking about technical things and then writing the code and using 00:43:20.428 --> 00:43:25.228 English strings and things too, because they're written in English first, so 00:43:25.938 --> 00:43:31.628 CJ: Yeah, is it so I didn't realize that the public could make changes to the 00:43:31.628 --> 00:43:37.173 docs So is there like a docs czar that kind of oversees all those PRs and tries 00:43:37.173 --> 00:43:39.663 to maybe like act as like an editor? 00:43:39.763 --> 00:43:40.483 Is that you 00:43:40.588 --> 00:43:43.808 Colin: That is that is DevRel at least it is right now. 00:43:43.818 --> 00:43:48.238 So we can talk about this cause we just did it, but yesterday we had, we just 00:43:48.238 --> 00:43:52.178 went through, we had 50 open ones and we got it down to like 30 something. 00:43:52.238 --> 00:43:55.468 Some of them are people trying to document things that aren't released yet. 00:43:56.108 --> 00:43:59.148 So we keep those ones open until like the team's like, yeah, those 00:43:59.148 --> 00:44:00.978 features rolled out and it's done. 00:44:00.988 --> 00:44:01.918 We can talk about it. 00:44:02.378 --> 00:44:05.698 That does mean like with the premium app stuff, we just released, like it had 00:44:05.708 --> 00:44:08.698 to be done in my version of the docs. 00:44:08.698 --> 00:44:12.108 Like I have a fork that's technically public, but I do it over there. 00:44:12.108 --> 00:44:13.838 And then when I'm ready, I merge it in. 00:44:13.858 --> 00:44:17.168 So you know, we're not trying to hide it from the world, but there's no way for 00:44:17.168 --> 00:44:20.058 us to have like a branch that's private. 00:44:20.518 --> 00:44:25.078 Of the docs right now we could in the future, but yeah, so we we kind of look 00:44:25.078 --> 00:44:28.218 at them Some of them are things that we just don't agree with and that's we're 00:44:28.228 --> 00:44:32.868 having a style guide to point to and some linting around this will help so that it 00:44:32.878 --> 00:44:37.128 doesn't have to be like Sorry, we don't want your pr but we do want this one. 00:44:37.128 --> 00:44:41.298 It'll be more like okay cool This is technically missing or technically 00:44:41.298 --> 00:44:46.318 incorrect and then this the linting will be on the style take care of most of that 00:44:46.883 --> 00:44:48.233 CJ: Yeah, that'd be awesome. 00:44:48.663 --> 00:44:54.253 That, yeah, I think maintaining docs is just really freaking hard. 00:44:54.603 --> 00:44:58.313 Like it's, it's, it's like legit, a very, very challenging 00:44:58.553 --> 00:45:05.443 problem, especially because there isn't a like solid standard for. 00:45:05.818 --> 00:45:08.258 The guides and tutorials side of things. 00:45:08.288 --> 00:45:10.988 Like everyone's kind of rolling their own still. 00:45:11.378 --> 00:45:19.078 And MDX and Markdoc both provide a framework, but like they don't provide too 00:45:19.078 --> 00:45:23.203 many Things there needs to be like, kind of like the jumpstart for docs, right. 00:45:23.213 --> 00:45:23.893 Or something, right. 00:45:23.893 --> 00:45:29.543 Where it gives you the text linter and the, all the code blocks and code 00:45:29.553 --> 00:45:35.453 generation and separate, like API reference versus you know, a client 00:45:35.453 --> 00:45:38.953 and SDK reference versus here's your guides and here's your tutorials. 00:45:38.953 --> 00:45:39.963 And does it have video? 00:45:39.963 --> 00:45:40.393 Does it not? 00:45:40.393 --> 00:45:40.653 It's like, 00:45:41.273 --> 00:45:44.393 Colin: Yeah, well, and you guys were doing a lot of that at Stripe. 00:45:44.403 --> 00:45:47.143 Stainless is trying to do that with SDKs. 00:45:47.373 --> 00:45:47.903 CJ: Mm hmm. 00:45:48.013 --> 00:45:51.083 Colin: know, there's, there's a lot of new docs companies popping up. 00:45:51.083 --> 00:45:55.183 I remember, like, Readme was like the doc startup of their time, and they're 00:45:55.183 --> 00:45:57.053 still really big and really popular. 00:45:57.053 --> 00:46:00.453 But there's now things like Redocly and some of these 00:46:00.453 --> 00:46:01.713 other ones that are coming out. 00:46:01.713 --> 00:46:03.173 So it's, it's cool to watch. 00:46:05.083 --> 00:46:09.753 CJ: Are you planning to go to RubyConf in November in San Diego? 00:46:10.163 --> 00:46:11.233 Colin: I am not. 00:46:11.413 --> 00:46:11.773 Are you? 00:46:12.713 --> 00:46:19.543 CJ: I am thinking about it, but yeah, maybe or like most, most 00:46:19.543 --> 00:46:24.453 likely RailsConf in May, but I think tomorrow or like this week is Rails 00:46:24.453 --> 00:46:27.103 world and I'm feeling some FOMO. 00:46:27.173 --> 00:46:27.993 I'm feeling some FOMO. 00:46:28.843 --> 00:46:30.743 Colin: There's only like 200 people going to that. 00:46:30.743 --> 00:46:31.933 So there's a lot of FOMO. 00:46:32.613 --> 00:46:34.683 CJ: Yeah, but it's all good. 00:46:35.128 --> 00:46:38.408 I wanted to mention before we close too, that we are hiring. 00:46:38.578 --> 00:46:39.618 We're hiring a craft work. 00:46:39.668 --> 00:46:43.778 We're hiring a full stack rails engineer and we're hiring a react native engineers. 00:46:43.788 --> 00:46:45.778 So hit me up. 00:46:46.198 --> 00:46:51.038 And then also I was thinking about trying that dynamic ad insertion from transistor 00:46:51.088 --> 00:46:52.318 to tell people that we're hiring. 00:46:52.528 --> 00:46:55.938 Colin: You'd like to go for it, would do that. 00:46:55.938 --> 00:47:00.198 And then if you haven't plugged it in the, the Reno developers group yet, I would 00:47:00.243 --> 00:47:01.503 CJ: Oh yeah, definitely. 00:47:01.723 --> 00:47:02.643 Yeah, for sure. 00:47:03.298 --> 00:47:03.858 Great idea. 00:47:04.498 --> 00:47:04.848 Cool. 00:47:05.078 --> 00:47:06.138 Yeah, I think that's a wrap. 00:47:07.358 --> 00:47:10.248 As always, you can head over to buildandlearn. 00:47:10.248 --> 00:47:12.638 dev to check out all the links and resources we mentioned. 00:47:13.498 --> 00:47:14.768 And yeah, we'll see you online. 00:47:15.348 --> 00:47:15.728 Colin: All right. 00:47:15.748 --> 00:47:16.418 Bye friends.