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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
00:09
Startup Unscripted, the questions you have with the truths you need to hear. And now your host, Michael Dinsio. Holy smokes, guys. Great episode today. You are in for a treat. I am telling you, mailing works. This episode is all about how to drive new patients to your brand new startup and
00:36
You know, marketing is a mix, a marketing mix. You've heard that, maybe you haven't, but I was a marketing major and it's all about marketing mix. You mix a bunch of stuff together and you get some output. So mailing should be in your marketing mix. And a lot of naysayers about mailing doesn't work. It absolutely does. People that think mailing doesn't work is because they're not tracking it. If you track it, I bet you it works. Now, of course, like anything, you know,
01:06
There's an exception to a lot of roles and yet maybe for some folks, mailing doesn't work. But for the vast majority it does. We talked about like, does it even work? We talk about the technology in print these days. So it's not just slapping ink and sending postcards and hoping and praying. And it's not just putting on a phone number. There's a lot more that goes into it. So the technology, the heat maps, the call listening, the scorecards.
01:34
the off-front office training of what they're doing wrong, technology in print. Talk about ROI and kind of like the average annual patient value and the investment that goes into mail and does it even make sense and what is the definition of success. And then we talk a lot about the percentages, like statistics on like
02:02
what's the average office missed call percentage and, you know, conversion percentages. And we talk a lot about that. And then the last thing we talk about is what promotions work. So if you're gonna do a mailing, what are the best promotions nationally, statistically? There's science behind all this stuff. So guys, listen up, startups, you're trying to figure out how to get new patient flow. Heck, I don't know any dental office that
02:31
doesn't want more new patient flow. And this is Anne Avenue, marketing mix, part of the marketing mix. And Avenue, let's get it going. The Encore series, Startup Unscripted, let's hit it. All right, all right, guys. Welcome, welcome. Another season, or another episode of Startup Unscripted Encore series. We are in the thick of...
02:58
an encore series that really deep dives into now that you're open, because that's what the whole season was about, was getting you guys open for business. anybody that's a startup looking to get into business, start from the top, go to episode one and work your way through. But we are all the way through that. Now you're open. And the big thing is, is how do we get patients? I always say, I always say, man, yeah, like, it's super fun to pick out ADEC and pick out.
03:28
wall coverings and carpet and the vision comes alive and the brand is super fun. But you have an office and it's beautiful, but no one walks through the door. that's what you guys were sweating from day one is how the hell am I going to get new patients? And so today I have a special guest, a friend, a partner in the industry. I'm a big believer in this and we'll get into why, because I have a background in it.
03:55
But Mr. Aaron Boone from MVP Mailhouse owner and founder, and this guy's crushing the dental mail industry. And there's a lot of reasons why. And I'm a super nerd about mail and we'll get into that. But Aaron, welcome brother to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, man. Thanks. Thanks for being a part of it. It's always fun to have great people on the show and learning from.
04:22
your guys's big brains because I truly believe that like if you specialize in one thing and you're great at one thing, then you're going to dominate like the better you are at one thing, you're going to crush on that one day. But if you're like a jack of, had a dentist the other day say I'm a jack of. That's it. I'm a jack of. was funny. But if you're a jack of, then you're just OK at everything.
04:51
So, and I think that's kind of your philosophy, right? So just break it down, like tell me about your company. Yeah. So, uh, very straightforward, simply put MVP stands for most valuable practice. We exclusively work with dentists and we exclusively do direct mail. We are a one trick pony to your point. Uh, my business model when I started this is do one thing for one industry and do it ridiculously better than anybody else. And that's what we've lived by.
05:19
as we've done this ridiculously better than anyone else. And yeah, so I've been doing this for about 12 years. I started my own business, just like a lot of you startups, I decided to chase the American dream, got tired of making other people money. know, corporate America or the big DSOs of the world. you know, took a chance on myself and grew a team and man, it's been a really fun roller coaster ride, you know, through COVID and all those things, but it's been fun. So yeah, that's why I'm excited to talk
05:48
direct malware. This is all we do all day, every day. I think I can really provide some unique insight and some pro tips and things to really help you. Let's get into it, man. I, I, haven't even grew out my beard for this presentation. I normally don't have a beard. I love it. I was just thinking like, man, I got to my game because I don't let it get too, too far. And when it starts getting like ratty, I was just like, yeah.
06:14
You know, but but you're totally pulling it. And I'm just thinking, wish I wish I could do that. That's awesome. And for those that don't follow us on YouTube, get it. Get on it, because these are kind of funny and entertaining. But for those that are watching today, if you don't know Aaron and his his his athletic journey, you're going to have to you have to do some research. But I knew.
06:39
He was going to have the Wildcats helmet back there and I had to represent my team, the Buckeyes, the Ohio State Buckeyes. That's right. We're getting ready for football season. I'm excited and I had to represent. So anyways, back to direct mail. So yes, you guys just do this and I think you're doing it really well, but let's get down to the foundation of direct mail in general. And that is, does this crap even work? And I know it does.
07:10
but I wanna hear it from you because I think there's a lot of like ROI conversations. And I actually wanna get into that later on in this episode, like how to track ROI and all that. But I think there's a lot of ROI conversation, but there's also a lot of branding stuff going on too for a startup. And so yeah, direct mail. Why direct mail? Why? Well, let's talk about it. So yeah, my background, I played college football at University of Kentucky.
07:38
I was a walk-on and ended up having a great career. Um, and at Kentucky, got to play professionally for nine years. So my first team was the Cowboys. Uh, I was roommates with Tony Romo. was the only claim to success I have. then I went to the bears and the Carolina Panthers. played in NFL Europe. So this reminds me of the old glory days. Uh, when I come in and look at the helmets, but jokingly, I say that because a lot of this is what led to where I'm at today with direct map. So I retired.
08:08
12 years ago or so I'm 44. So I played a long time, nine years bouncing around, getting paychecks playing football. I created a love for analytics, right? It's just like, it's no different from when you're in high school class, college class, you got to find out what the what the teacher wants and how to get an A. Some are heavy on tests, some are heavy on on homework assignments, right? Whatever you do is going to determine your grade. Then fast forward into football, like what are the metrics that matter?
08:38
right for a receiver. That's what I played. How am I going to get paid? How am going to make this team? And analytics is a big deal in sports. Anyone that does fantasy football or any of those things, you watch any game, they know how many ounces of water you're drinking in the fourth quarter. Like it's crazy. This is like, this is like Billy Bean money ball. didn't think. Yeah. Is this where the episodes go? It's Billy Bean. I'm literally coaching my sixth grade football team and we got like first full play call sheets. We got,
09:08
Over, we got over 75 plays already. only one game in and these guys are probably drinking it. Like it's crazy. I, I'm, yeah, I know, but let's get to direct mail. Okay. So when I retired, uh, from football, no, I never got rich and famous. didn't make bazillion dollars and I don't live on a beach. I had to get a real job. Yes. I had a good headstart. Uh, but I had also some knee surgeries, pay for that shoulder surgeries and stuff like that. But I got into dentistry.
09:37
And I was shocked how little transparency there was, how little accountability there was for marketing companies specifically, because that's kind of where I landed. And what was happening is there's dental offices from startups to long established offices spending literally tens of thousands in marketing. And they had no real accountability or the marketing company or no real way of measuring they were literally when I started
10:04
doing my first couple even even direct mail pieces. I'm calling office up. Hey, Doug Smith. How do you think it's going? Well, I don't know. Let me ask my front desk. Yeah, I literally hear them yell, Hey, Mary, how do you think the marketing's Mary doesn't care if she has one caller 100 calls. So it's just more work for her in a lot of practices because they don't align goals. Amen. Yes. With the company with everything. So right. That's what Mary would yell back.
10:31
She would remember the one call. That's kind of working. It's kind working. would remember the one bad call like, hey, how much for a crown? Yeah. And oh, well, I can't tell you. OK, well, it's fifteen hundred dollars. OK, thanks. Bye. So now in her mind, every person calling from direct mail. Yeah. I shopper because they had one inquiry about she didn't remember the other 20 people that scheduled. Yeah, because they're forgettable because they're forgettable because it was so easy. They're forgettable. Yeah, because they just call and say,
11:00
Hey, I'd like to an appointment. And they never even ask him where they came from or how they heard about it. That's right. Anyway, don't get me started. But the bottom line is there's there was no tracking in place. People are spending a lot of money and still are to this day without some real tracking elements. And I came from a world where if I dropped a touchdown pass, years last your deal. If your contract, if you screw up, you're fired. Like because there is thousands of other people that would love to be in your spot. OK, so.
11:29
I came from a different world. didn't grow up in the dental world, so to speak, or just drink the Kool-Aid of a new marketing company. I started challenging things. Well, why shouldn't an office know exactly how many calls they got, how many appointments they got from their mailing? Also, well, what are their best responding neighborhoods? And if you have multiple people, someone answering the phone, well, they should have some accountability too, because oftentimes it's...
11:57
You know, you hire me to get the phone to ring. But what if you don't answer it? Yeah. Yeah. We just had we just had Golden Goose interview about picking up. Oh, Then you know all about that. Yeah. Well, if you you've listened to the episodes, but preach it, brother, this is this is 100 percent. OK, so here's just an example. I've personally met over 100 million pieces for dentists all across America. We've tracked every single call. So we put a tracking number on our postcards. It's a local number. It rings right to your office. You guys answer it like any other call.
12:26
The difference is these calls are being recorded. Okay. Call tracking 101. Within hours though, my team listens to the entire recording. So you're Mary at the front desk is now being monitored, so to speak. We actually go to great lengths to listen to that call. We write down who the caller was. Did they ask about an offer on your card? Did they ask about a gift card? They asked about a whitening offer, whatever you may have on there. We track what service they asked about.
12:56
Are they looking for a visit line implants, cosmetic, you name it. We want to track that to find out what's working best and what's not. OK, OK, OK. Aaron, Aaron's Aaron's passionate and he talks fast. Sorry, I'm going to break this down because no, don't don't ever say sorry for for for being passionate, because that's why next level loves your your your your company and what you do for our clients. But to me, I think.
13:24
I think you're heading down the right path if you're working with a mail house or really any marketing company that's slapping on unique phone numbers. Like that's, to me, that's practice life hack number one. But to me, that's like baseline to me. Like that just tells me some numbers, like how many people called. But you and I both know that, actually you taught me this, that
13:53
Maybe they got the postcard or they saw a Facebook ad or whatever and then called from Google. We're not capturing that. So what Aaron is saying here and we're probably going to get into this, but it's not just if they called, it's also listening to your team because you're spending thousands of dollars on mail, on pay per click, on all the different things.
14:21
And if you don't know what's working back to the analytics, then then you're missing out. And anything a consultant or a business owner can do to take out the guesswork of if something's working, you have to get behind that. Because like you just said, hey, Mary, Mary, did it work? Like, no, that shit doesn't work because Mary's making twenty dollars an hour. She's not going to run your business as good as you will run your business or should run your business.
14:51
And you're right. She's only going to give you half the answer. I mean, that that's the next level stuff. And that's what changed. So now when I call Dr. Smith, I say, hey, Dr. Smith, instead of how's it going? It's a hey, how's it going on a personal level? But hey, let's talk about your lesson last mailing. So far, I see 20 calls through the tracking line. It looks like Mary is scheduled 12 of them. She should have scheduled four more, but she left one on hold for eight minutes and they hung up and never called back.
15:20
she gave pricing on that crown to number two and they hung up and went away and she was rude to the third person or whatever it may be. Bam. Bam. now you have real numbers. That's a different conversation right there. That's a different conversation. Exactly. It's totally different. And I can say, you know, the area that I really see we could work on here, I know you're working limited hours because you're a startup, but you guys are missing a lot of calls and they're not leaving voicemails. Let me give you a stat on this.
15:49
100 million cards we've mailed. 33 % of calls are going unanswered or missed back to your case for a golden goose or some sort of answering service, 33 % of calls. that includes established offices. So being a startup with limited hours, you're probably going to miss more. That's your pain for three leads and only answering two of them. Okay. So it gets really expensive, really quick when you're missing these calls. All right. So that's
16:18
That's number one 33 % of calls go missed. Now here's where it gets worse startup docs. When it's unanswered, and it goes to a voicemail, that's what people always tell me, Oh, our voicemail will pick it up, we'll get a voicemail. Listen to this. When your call goes to a voicemail, only 10 % of first time callers will leave a voicemail. 10 % of first time callers leave a voicemail. The rest guess what they do? They Google what other dentists are nearby.
16:44
And you just paid for that person. You got their interest. They called and now they're going somewhere else because you didn't answer the phone call. So those are big numbers for offices and especially a startup, because that one patient, you don't know if that's going to be a $50,000 case or a $500 case or what. You just don't know. Plus their family, their network, their referrals from work. That's why every call is so important. So I literally just, I literally just got off the phone with a guy and
17:14
He's doing a startup and he's building a 10 operatory practice as a startup. I'm not coaching him. Someone referred me on and the guy kind of needs some help in the backend, set up systems, whatever, hiring. And I'm like, wow, 10 ops, that's aggressive. I came from Pacific Dental. Okay. Now, and that makes sense. You go big or go home, right? Like how much did you set aside for marketing? Oh, 20,000.
17:41
And I said, that sounds like a budget for your first month for a site for a practice that size, you know, and we started talking about it. And the reason I'm going down this rabbit hole is that we talked about like how much more expensive your new patient acquisition is on a startup. I'm like, you're going to spend so much money getting the first patients in your doors, but
18:09
once you pay for that first 100, then you're going to get hopefully 50 Google reviews or they're going to tell their friends and activity breeds activity. yeah, but the key, right, is obviously knowing where all of the activity is coming from and which dollars are being spent and bringing in. 33 % of calls missed. And then I think at one time you told me, maybe you just said this, but I think you told me that
18:38
like 30 to 40 % of calls aren't calling the phone number on the actual postcard. that's another portion of this. Yeah. So with ours that are missed, we create a missed caller instantly. So you'll get a number right away. Hey, call this number back. They didn't leave a voicemail. They're not calling you just to chit chat, right? You don't call a tire shop just to talk to Bob down tire shop, right? So people, when they call a dental office, they have a genuine dental need or question.
19:08
So these are high quality leads that someone needs to call back quickly. And that's another feature of the call tracking. I know we're spending a great deal on this, but if nothing else. Well, I mean, this is about as it's huge. Like this is it. This is so many things you can control. All right. This is what I say. The audience you hit. Okay. What homes are we going to target? Which is a, is a talk in itself, what neighborhoods? Um, then next is what is the message? What does the design look like?
19:36
What offers do you put on that card, that kind of thing, the design, right? So audience message. And then third is what happens when it hits homes. And this is where the calls come in. This is where your front desk is so key. And then the fourth step is on you docs, what happens when they come into the office?
19:54
Do they accept treatment? Do they enjoy the experience? You're not, you're not like recording people in office, are you? no, but it does some CIA stuff going on here. But it's interesting you say that because what happens is all of this, this audience that you targeted with your message. Okay. Some are going to call this postcard number. Some are going to get the card, go to your website. In fact, we do QR codes all the time on these. So they'll scan it right from their phone. And now they're calling.
20:23
So we're not capturing everybody from that tracking number, just the ones that physically call that. I'm a big fan of the online scheduling from QR. I know, I know that throws off your statistics, but if I can get someone to schedule right then. Right. 100%. No, but I'll catch him on the back end. Yeah. Talk about that. Talk about that. This is how. So these calls come in from the postcard. Some will come in from online. Some will call. We listen to this all the time too. Hey, we listen to a recording. Mary says, Hey, how'd you hear about us?
20:52
Oh, I drive past your office on the way to work every day, but they're literally calling that number. we can, so your front desk doesn't even know in many times. I think the answer is Google almost 90%. Oh, I Googled you Google. They're literally calling from our number, but they'll say Google or my insurance side or whatever it may be. So regardless of how they got to you, what's important is they got to you. Okay. You captured them. So after
21:20
our mailings after our initial round, we do what's called an audit because this is a missing component. Even back, even, even for me to be held accountable, I could tell you, look, I got 20 recordings, 17 people scheduled, but what if they don't show up? Did that bring any gain to you? No. So I want to know from our side and you want to know from your side. So I basically have you run a new patient report after your first couple of months and
21:48
I compare that new patient report right out of your opedental, dentrics, whatever you use. I have instructions for you. You run a quick report and I compare it to all the phone numbers that I have, all the names we heard on the calls, even down to the addresses we mailed to. So my address will match your new patient address and I can literally say, this person got this card. Three days later, they walked into your office. Coincidence? I say no.
22:15
I say no, I say no. I'll show you and that's what's the transparency that I appreciate and my offices appreciate is I'll show you the 100 % matches where there's no question. They call from the number or they said the postcard or they brought it in. But I'll also show you those hot matches that maybe never even mentioned it. But literally they got the card three days before. Yeah, folks, I've had clients that Aaron said, Hey, this doesn't this didn't work. And I know it didn't work because we did our audit. And at the end of the day,
22:44
We scraped it all and it didn't work. And maybe you don't do this again, right? So to me, the analytics, yeah, sure. Maybe mail doesn't work for your area, your location. It doesn't work for 100%. But the fact that you know. Now, instead of six months from now, is. year from now. That's the next level piece because every other marketing.
23:14
approach or whatever product strategy, you don't really know unless you have Aaron's technology. So that was actually going to be one of my questions. And we already answered is like, have you turned direct mail into a technology company? Because at the end of the day, you're just printing it, printing on paper and sending it. Well, look, there's a couple aspects of that. So one, you have 24 seven login access. You can go in and see these calls. You can listen to them. You can see all of our notes.
23:42
You can even see how well your front desk compares to other offices across America. You can see what their closing rate is. You can see what offers people are asking about. One of the things I love about our tech is when I do that audit at the end, I pin drop out all of your new patients. You're gonna see your fastest growing neighborhoods. And the geography is really interesting. What most people do when they start up is they pin drop their office and they draw a big old circle right around the office, okay?
24:12
Oh, let's do the two mile radius. The four. How many times you guys heard that four mile radius? Yeah. Okay. Listen to my demographics report said this. Yes. Please, please listen to this one statement. People don't come to your office in a perfect circle. Okay. They just don't. They don't. Oh, I'm at 2.4 miles. I'm going to that. That is obvious, right? It doesn't happen. So as I've analyzed, I do heat maps. We built some really cool mapping technology where we pin drop out your patients as you grow. So you can see you're growing.
24:42
community neighborhoods and areas. Vice versa, you're going to see where not to mail, where not to target and you're going to save thousands of pieces by taking those areas off as you go. But as a startup, you don't have patience to pin drop out. So leverage our experience of seeing how interstates, rivers, lakes,
25:03
stop people. don't, say another side of the tracks is a real thing and then it is a real thing, You don't migrate to your practice in a perfect circle. I'll be the first one to tell you that, that, uh, kind of where I live, um, there's a highway and the bigger city, uh, is blocking, um, well that, that, highway's separating us. So I subconsciously, I don't want to go to the grocery store. That's one mile down the road, but cause I have to go through the
25:33
you know, underneath the overpass. I go to the two mile one. That makes no sense. No, it's totally true. So I've literally done thousands of heat maps for existing offices. And I love it because when a startup comes to me, I can say, hey, this is where I'll predict in a year from now or two years from now. Let me pin drop all of your patients in two years. And we're pretty darn good as of knowing where people are going to come from. Just because I've done this thousands of times for existing practices.
26:02
who already have the data. They've already done this startup. so it is super helpful. One, it'll help you save money because you're not over mailing, over reaching where people are going to come from at a high percentage. And one last thing on that, I tend to see people migrate towards cities. So just like you said, you'd rather go maybe out two miles this way rather than one mile in. It's hard to pull people in or sorry, out of a city to your practice.
26:30
over beltways or over extension roads to come to you, it's a lot easier because they flow towards. Once they're in the little city bubble, they don't want to leave the city bubble. That's interesting. Aaron, we covered call tracking. I just think that's next level. We've covered some of the technology. It clearly works. I really want to spend kind of like the back end of this episode in
26:59
just really tapping into like your knowledge and statistics and best practices. Let's spend some time on just in general ROI. What should someone expect out of you know, out of millions of cards that you've sent across the entire country? And we can't folks, we can't predict what your market would do. I'm getting all crazy here with my hands.
27:23
We, we, yeah, these, these mic booms and stuff. We can't predict what's going to happen in your market, but, if we were going to play the averages, what's, what's the average patient acquisition? Because you're looking at production as it relates to dollar spend, I assume. Right. So what should we expect? I have a number of it. What should we expect? Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. All right. So let's break that down just a little and see how we agree on a patient. So
27:52
In my experience, you read these, what is a patient worth, number one? And it varies, pediatric practice versus Medicaid practice, they're gonna be on the lower end. But in general, I typically say 750 to 1250. What is your number that you always tell? Over the first year, sorry. Yeah, good that we're staying on the startup. Dental Intel, they're an authority that I use, because they're in 10,000 offices.
28:23
$600 is kind of the median range that I've heard. Yeah. Perfect. So when I see these and even as I've done a lot of startups, think that if you're looking over 10,000 offices, it'll skew a little lower. in general, let's say, let's go with that 700. That's assuming the first call. Let's go, yeah, go 700. That's good. And I normally say a thousand and even a lot of your customers will be there because
28:51
What happens is you have your initial one, you have your six month and your 12 month, right? So even if they just come in for cleanings, you can see how the value increases a lot. So when that back to why that phone rings, when that phone rings, that's money calling right there. Look at it as a $700 or a $1,000 phone call every time the phone rings. I guarantee you will answer the phone differently if you think of it like that, right? So, all right.
29:15
Well, the doctor would I don't know about. I don't know about that. yeah, some some. right. So talking through numbers, so direct mail and there's some really bad misconceptions. If you Google what is direct mail response, guess what? You're going to get results for a dominoes and some really inflated numbers and other marketing companies, direct mail companies are going to tell you higher numbers, frankly, because they're not tracking it. They don't have any accountability.
29:45
We started this whole conversation off about accountability. I don't want to over promise and under deliver. So to the data, it does vary a hundred percent, but I'll give you in general. if you were mailing to 10,000 homes, so typically our offices will mail 5,000 or 10,000 per drop. On a 10,000 drop, when we do that audit, we normally see somewhere between 12 and 24 new patients.
30:13
Now, I you'd say, yeah. And 12 to 24. Well, we'll even break that down a little more. What is that percentage wise? You're talking about a quarter of a percent. So if someone tells you you're going to get one or two percent, they're crazy. That's a hundred calls or 200 calls. Now, have I had to happen for sure? Yeah. But do I expect it? some clients that have had it. Yeah, for sure. They're just gangbusters. But in general, I like keeping conservative numbers, but even at those numbers.
30:42
12 to 24, the math works really well. That's why direct mail works so well. You mail to 10,000 homes and people say, well, it's junk mail. Well, for many people, yeah, they're gonna throw it away. It doesn't apply to them. It's just like if you got a tire ad today and you don't need tires, is it gonna jump out to you? No, but those that are in that bucket. So you can literally have 9,980 people throw this away. The 20 that don't,
31:10
just made you tens of thousands of dollars. Plus they're going to bring their families if you take care of them. So by my math, that's somewhere between 7,000 to 14,000 annual patient value on just those patients. Then you get a Google review out of them. Then like you said, you get the referral source, but that's just one drop.
31:37
Um, and most of our tracking is just on that first patient too. So when I redo this audit in six months from now, guess what? That household now reports 2.3 patients per household or 2.7 paid because they bring in a spouse later or a kid. So my tracking initially is just the first person that called Bob calls and schedules his appointment, but in six months, well guess what? His wife also now came in and their two kids.
32:04
If you do a good job patient experience. Exactly. It's almost like, you know, it happens for sure. I I've had a, yeah, you know, cults and schedule six, but normally it's, it's honestly, it normally will be one person and it's almost like they're testing you out. They want to give you a test drive to see if they like you. usually there's a promotion. So, okay. So, so you kind of answered it as like that percentage is going to be very low. You know, response rate, but that's to me, that's that's perfect. That's
32:34
It should be low. One last thing on that is the dollar amount. OK, what should you expect to pay for a new patient in the seat? Not a lead, a new patient, but in your chair. Right. So when I look at that number for a startup, it's going to be on the higher end. Normally, I'll see two to four hundred dollars. It's going to cost you if you really look at like a true cost. But when you look at this down the road, that cost is dropping down between one hundred or less than that. Under two hundred is kind of the goal.
33:03
If you can pay under 200 bucks for a patient, you're going to be rolling because they are going to continue to refer, take care of you and bring dollars. That's right. And I just said that to the caller that before this was that you're in the beginning, the patient acquisition cost is going to be so much higher. But activity breeds activity, breeds activity. Your first 100 patients is going to drive your next four or 500 patients. And that could be like I said, keep saying Google reviews.
33:32
referring a friend, whatever it is. So just the ROI of the actual campaign that you're facilitating, it either break evens or you make great money, but then the back audit is multiple families, the Google reviews, the add-ons. So it does work. In short term, say two to four times return on your money. In the short term. I've heard three. audit within a few months, you should start having...
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you know, return. From other mail houses, I've heard a one to $3. So that's a three times on gross production, not net production, gross production. So great, Aaron. Thank you for that. So other statistics, like I love asking you statistics because you're an analytical guy and you're dropping footballs in end zone type stuff. 33 % of calls are missed. I said 30.
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30, you taught me this 30 to 40 % people don't call the number on the postcard. Throw out some more statistics, Mr. Analytics. I love this stuff. It's great. So yeah, I have a whole kind of like a chart here that we continue to track, but I would say one thing that I wanna talk about a little bit on statistic is offers. So offers work 100 % of the time.
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and I don't have an exact amount on those offers. can tell you what kind of I see as some of our top responding offers in general. What are those? But in general, has worked really well for your clients is a gift card type incentive. Free whitening is still the number one offer in the country. It's not exciting, put yourself here's why it works historically. And there's different ways to do it, right? If you don't want chair time, you can do a take home kit. You can do different things, but let me just present this to you. If a new patient,
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Possible new patient gets an advertising in the mail. They like what they see Let's say and I always say play to your strengths. Look at this guy. Good old boy put his cowboy hat Look at that face. Look at that fakes. Yeah, and he still mails to this day two years later every month emails crushes It he just he's authentic. So be authentic find your strengths whatever it may be Okay, if you have a cool office a nice looking office put it on there if you have a great team and energetic team
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Put it on crazy on the front. Yeah. Yeah. Play to your strength. You got a big family and your pediatric dentist. Put it on it on there. A hundred percent reviews. Put it on there. Right. Like all those things. So play to your strengths. Identify your brain. And OK. So next is offers. The reason why free lightning works really well historically. And there's different scenarios of it. Free lightning for life and one time or, you know, in office. But the reason why is simply this is if I have dental insurance.
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and I can go to this office, I can go to five offices within three miles of me, but you are giving me free whitening with a paid new patient exam, x-ray cleaning. Well, those are already free to me in my mind, right? The exam, x-ray cleaning. I can go any dentist with my insurance and do that. You're going to give me free whitening initially. Boom. I'm going to give you a shot. Now it's your job to earn my business long-term, right? That's where free whitening for life comes into play is some people will
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at six months, I'm going to give you another syringe of whitening as long as you keep your appointment. And that's kind of where that philosophy has came from. You get them hooked on something every six months. They're there for their appointment. Now, does it work longer term? I don't have the data on that, but I will say that gets if I'm just tracking offers in general. Now, it is also used the most. So that would. Yeah, I was, you know, my brain went to that. That would be the results of it. OK, so free whitening definitely works. Gift cards definitely work.
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I've gotten the free electric toothbrush thing. Is that a common deal? Does that work? It's I would say probably 10 % of the time. It's not a surprise. It's a huge of a draw. Hey, what else? What else works? If you are doing any sort of orthodontic care, Invisalign or orthodontic, 100 % you need to have an offer. And this you're already doing it. So it's not anything you're giving away. It's literally a free Invisalign consultation. And if you want
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then add a dollar amount off on that. 250 off, more aggressive 500 off, something like that to get some cases going. But always show a free consultation for that. For big cases, implants, Invisalign, I recommend to offer a free consultation. I know it's going to take a little bit of chair time, but the case value is such that it can justify that in a lot of cases. Aaron, one of the things that my clients struggle with on some of the initial designs
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And I don't want to go down a rat hole here, but there there's a lot of like, hey, there's a lot of offers on here. My my my I've got cats in my brain when I look at this postcard. What are you what's your data on that? Like I I say that in that everybody has different needs. Some people have insurance, some people don't. That's why I like the membership plan. And we just we just put out a dental menu episode and
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we talk about dental menu and memberships all the time. You know, we all of our clients do that with you. But I guess to that point is like everybody has different needs. So is the theory put a lot of offers, hopefully that one of them sticks to the audience or, or should you do an offer that speaks to all and make it more laser focused? how do we get? Yeah, good question. I, I prefer the lay or the, the, the first with
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more offers. Typically, I'll recommend two offers to three offers on the higher end. Do I have some that have more? Yeah, but I don't want as a startup, especially guys. All right, put yourself in this mindset. You're a new kid in school, so to speak, the way you dress yourself, the way you present yourself to these neighborhoods is the type of practice they're going to interpret. Okay. So if you plan on being the low price leader in dentistry in your area,
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then you should absolutely market that the cheapest prices, the best things you can do. If you're more on the wrong with that, by the way. Yeah, there's nothing wrong. If that's your angle, embrace it. The problem is when someone is that but they're or vice versa, they come across as this boutique spa, high end dentistry, but they're really the low end version of it, know, cheaper dentistry, stuff like that. So understanding that as part of the stuff that they go through with you early on is understand this identity.
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and embrace it, like play to your strengths. the design, you're that new kid in school and how you present yourself is really important. So if you get too crazy with these big flashy offers, well, that's kind of how they're maybe interpret it. And they're also going to try to make you live up to that for a long, time. If someone remembers that, if they see this flashy, hey, all new patients, free, free, free, free, free. Well, if they come to you in seven months from now and it's not free,
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They're, you know, they're, they're not necessarily happy. Yeah. Yeah. We, have a lot of conversations with that, with my clients and most of my docs just don't like the word free because it just gives them that impression. You could be fishing for the wrong, the wrong patient, but, um, there's a big, there's a big difference. I think it's worth it.
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Well, maybe the... The consultation. Yeah, the consult. Yeah, that's totally fine. I get that. But, I find that the gift cards is a nice neutral place to go because whether I have insurance or I don't, I'd love an Amazon gift card. Whether I'm a cheap ass trying to find the next best deal interested in postcard, whether I'm not a cheap ass and I have a family and I'm just, you know, responsible with money.
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I'd like a gift card. I think that to me, that's a great play and a safe play. It sounds like it does pretty well. And it goes both ways. It really does. And when you guys see those $49, $79 new patient special, those are obviously very common and very popular. Those are driving cash people. Okay. So the reason why I like multiple offers is one, I want an offer that resonates with the cash world. One that resonates with the insurance world. We might need, for example,
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the dollar amount, but the gift card to your point really can incorporate everybody. It's a bottom. So for startups, last thought on this is keep a broader net initially. Even if you really want to do a lot of Invisalign cases, well, what about the person that needs four crowns and they think, oh, they're just an orthodontist. initially, especially now as you get going and you see what's resonating, what's responding, you can be more niche and we can start fine tuning some of the designs. initially keep it broader.
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because you don't know how your practice is going to grow just yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of like first, if you're going to get aggressive with your offers, maybe you do first 100 patients type of a thing if you're going to get aggressive because it kind of sets the tone, create some scarcity. That's a golden goose principle from Chaldini. Create some scarcity so that maybe it gets people off the couch. I will say offers work because because the ADA, I'm not sure if this is a 2020 statistic.
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That's when I heard it. But they said 40 % of people did not see a dentist last year. And I don't know if that was a 2020 or a 2021. But 40 % that seems pretty accurate to me. And if you're trying to get 40 % off the couch, and they didn't go to a dentist last year, why are they going to go to a dentist this year, you're trying to get them off the couch. Yeah, and they literally can go to a dentist for basically free. If you would if they really look and they still don't go so
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Yeah, you've got to get them off the couch. And that's where when you work with us, too, we kind of talk about some seasonality, some different starbursts that work well. End of year, use your benefits before you lose them. And there's different messages, right? Back to school, beat the back school, blah, blah. There's different timings even around tax return. You'll start to some bigger cases come in. So those are just kind of like that next level of how to continue to keep your direct mail effective. Dude, this could be a 15 hour conversation.
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I love talking print with you, man, because I used to be a print rep. That's the funny thing. I called Aaron up one day and said, so I used to sell this stuff. So let's look at prices because I'm looking at it a little bit different. So big picture. If you are doing direct mail or if you're considering direct mail, would highly recommend these guys. it's mainly, sorry, Aaron, it's not the print quality.
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It's it's customer service is great, but it's not even it's not even all that. It's the fact that I know if it worked or didn't. To me, that's worth whatever you're charging because you could do a pay per click campaign and get fifteen thousand, twenty thousand impressions. I don't know what even what that even means impressions. Maybe someone from the Google world can tell me, but like.
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I don't even know how to comprehend. How did 15,000 people land on my website and I got 10 calls this week? Like, that doesn't even make sense to me. So I just love the fact that I know with Aaron and anyways. If you're going to start counting impressions, maybe I just said, well, 10,000 impressions, we hit 10,000. That's right. Good point. Good point. All right, guys. Well, Aaron, thanks, man. I appreciate it. Thanks for always being a good sport.
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And, you know, we can even get into some, some how to pick up the phone, right? He, he trains front office people all the time. Yeah. We provide feedback just United in a minute. It's part of our service for free. I want Mary to be the best Mary for you because it's going to make you more money longer term. So all of this data is back for you. We give free front desk tips and training as we go. Yeah. I mean, the bottom line. So I, just, the reason why I really resonate with this too is I consider myself a startup a few years ago. I left.
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a job, I was making big corporate America a lot of money, do it make you know, just like a lot of you guys that worked for some of these other DSOs and these big players out there. But you took a leap of faith and I did too. And I took a chance to start my own business and and trust it. So I really have a soft spot for startups. I love to see them grow. Some of my favorite ever most rewarding things that I've done over these 12 years of doing direct mail is when I get an email from, you know, Dr. Fan.
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Dr. Smith, whoever it might be that says, Hey, you know, I had did this startup. I'm still working here two days a week and at my old place for three at the DSO for three days a week. But today's my last day. I finally have enough that I'm reading that and I'm all in here. And those are, I have dozens of those and they're the most rewarding emails I get. Like you can see the change and that's, that's what you're doing, trying to help put dentists in a position to be successful with good sound advice.
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and recommendations that are going to eliminate a lot of costly mistakes that so many people make. Right. And that's my closing words. Closing closing arguments. I love it. If you doubt and direct mail, don't talk to Aaron to see if you can fit into your budget, because I think it does a lot for you and it can be tracked. And so I guess without further ado, thanks again, man, for being on the program. And folks, we're going to have all of Aaron's stuff below. So.
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Please go to the description in this episode with iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, whatever you're doing. Click below and reach out. Just have a conversation. The guy's not a salesman, even though he's passionate. He'll just educate like he just did today. like I said, he has walked away from some of my clients where programs didn't work. I mean, that's what it's all about. So I highly suggest you reach out and just learn a little bit about.
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So thanks again, Aaron. Appreciate you. We will talk to you another day. Talk to you later.
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Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another truth-filled episode of Startup Unscripted.