WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:31.074 --> 00:00:31.954 Kevin Griffin: Welcome back to the show. 00:00:31.954 --> 00:00:32.514 Everyone. 00:00:32.524 --> 00:00:34.114 It's commentary time. 00:00:34.204 --> 00:00:37.104 Hopefully you all had the opportunity to 00:00:37.104 --> 00:00:39.234 listen to our previous episode with Mr. 00:00:39.264 --> 00:00:43.974 Mike Buckby and I know Sean and Chad have 00:00:43.974 --> 00:00:45.874 had a chance to listen to the episode. 00:00:46.914 --> 00:00:48.484 Now, if you didn't get it from 00:00:48.794 --> 00:00:50.714 the episode, I have known Mike 00:00:50.724 --> 00:00:53.354 Buckby for a very long time. 00:00:53.694 --> 00:00:56.004 I have lunch with Mike at least once 00:00:56.194 --> 00:00:58.444 every two weeks, we have a little crew 00:00:58.454 --> 00:01:01.544 that goes out and has a meal, discusses 00:01:01.944 --> 00:01:04.414 our businesses and what we have going on. 00:01:05.014 --> 00:01:07.484 And yeah, it's just a good time. 00:01:07.484 --> 00:01:10.004 So having Mike on the podcast was 00:01:10.044 --> 00:01:13.724 inevitable because He has done so 00:01:13.724 --> 00:01:17.174 much that he is just, he just doesn't 00:01:17.174 --> 00:01:19.494 talk about publicly very, very 00:01:19.494 --> 00:01:22.774 often because he is killing it and 00:01:22.774 --> 00:01:24.794 he would never say that to you that 00:01:24.804 --> 00:01:27.164 he is killing it in so many ways. 00:01:28.044 --> 00:01:29.264 I actually think in the podcast, 00:01:29.264 --> 00:01:32.664 he was so good about going, yeah, 00:01:32.664 --> 00:01:34.284 well, I had this success and I had 00:01:34.284 --> 00:01:35.934 that success and it's all right. 00:01:35.944 --> 00:01:37.394 So, but I'm on to this new thing 00:01:37.844 --> 00:01:40.154 and he's just such a humble guy. 00:01:40.174 --> 00:01:40.954 I love him to death. 00:01:42.584 --> 00:01:44.414 I want to start the conversation 00:01:44.414 --> 00:01:45.954 actually talking about Mike and 00:01:47.014 --> 00:01:48.444 I think Mike made a comment. 00:01:48.909 --> 00:01:51.639 In the episode that he calls everything he 00:01:51.639 --> 00:01:56.649 does project Mike and so if he's working 00:01:56.649 --> 00:01:58.859 on a project, it's working towards project 00:01:58.859 --> 00:02:02.289 Mike and I, I kind of like that concept 00:02:03.169 --> 00:02:07.639 and he used a term in describing project 00:02:07.649 --> 00:02:10.659 Mike called stacking the bricks and. 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.569 Sean, Chad, have, have you ever 00:02:13.569 --> 00:02:15.139 heard the term stack in the bricks, 00:02:16.574 --> 00:02:16.964 Sean Merron: I'm not. 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:19.279 Kevin Griffin: Chad stack in the bricks? 00:02:20.414 --> 00:02:21.054 Chad Carter: No, I've never 00:02:21.054 --> 00:02:22.474 heard that before the episode. 00:02:23.149 --> 00:02:25.279 Kevin Griffin: So I guess it's probably 00:02:25.279 --> 00:02:27.519 useful to you all and listeners to kind of 00:02:27.519 --> 00:02:29.279 describe what stack in the bricks is from. 00:02:29.729 --> 00:02:33.349 That's a term coined by. 00:02:34.384 --> 00:02:37.364 Uh, Amy Hoy and Alex Hillman, they 00:02:37.364 --> 00:02:40.934 are folks who help people start their 00:02:40.934 --> 00:02:43.624 SAS products, uh, start any product is 00:02:43.674 --> 00:02:46.174 very similar to, to what we try to do. 00:02:46.754 --> 00:02:50.504 And they have a course called 30 by 00:02:50.534 --> 00:02:52.744 500, which I think is fascinating. 00:02:52.959 --> 00:02:55.999 And you can really tell the people who 00:02:56.199 --> 00:03:00.289 are giving legitimate good information 00:03:00.789 --> 00:03:02.489 are never get rich quick schemes. 00:03:02.509 --> 00:03:05.949 There are always get rich eventually, if 00:03:05.949 --> 00:03:08.559 you do the proper things and stacking the 00:03:08.569 --> 00:03:11.739 bricks is kind of that process of you do 00:03:11.809 --> 00:03:14.759 little things that eventually build the 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:18.859 wall that becomes your, your product or 00:03:18.859 --> 00:03:21.709 the, the thing that you're most known for. 00:03:22.189 --> 00:03:22.789 So. 00:03:23.079 --> 00:03:29.119 If I'm building a product for selling 00:03:29.149 --> 00:03:32.779 coaching and knowledge for starting a 00:03:32.779 --> 00:03:35.569 side business, one of my bricks might 00:03:35.569 --> 00:03:39.109 be starting a podcast and another brick 00:03:39.109 --> 00:03:41.369 might be starting a YouTube channel. 00:03:41.709 --> 00:03:43.349 Another one might be starting to 00:03:43.349 --> 00:03:45.719 write articles on things that my. 00:03:47.384 --> 00:03:50.504 Listeners and my readers, my followers, 00:03:50.534 --> 00:03:53.034 my community would care about that's 00:03:53.034 --> 00:03:55.204 a brick and then you eventually 00:03:55.204 --> 00:03:56.294 go and start adding other bricks. 00:03:56.294 --> 00:03:57.644 Well, let me add a coaching program 00:03:58.114 --> 00:03:59.934 where I can work with people directly 00:03:59.944 --> 00:04:01.684 and teach them the things that I know 00:04:01.684 --> 00:04:06.224 and help them in whatever ways a brick. 00:04:06.224 --> 00:04:07.594 Actually, before that might be start 00:04:07.594 --> 00:04:11.884 a challenge, so do a challenge series 00:04:11.894 --> 00:04:14.064 where you just get people engaged 00:04:14.064 --> 00:04:15.564 and see what's in their heads. 00:04:16.669 --> 00:04:19.809 Uh, there's other parts of 35 by 500 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:22.249 that include like the sales safari where 00:04:22.249 --> 00:04:23.819 you go off into your communities and 00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:25.769 find out what their pain points are and 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:27.759 then you try to figure out how you can 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.079 address those pain points in various ways. 00:04:30.894 --> 00:04:32.154 And I know what you're 00:04:32.154 --> 00:04:32.914 probably out there thinking. 00:04:32.914 --> 00:04:34.634 What is 30 by 500 mean? 00:04:34.944 --> 00:04:38.534 And the concept there, if I'm saying this 00:04:38.534 --> 00:04:40.844 correctly, I believe I am, is that can 00:04:40.844 --> 00:04:44.294 you find 500 people to pay you 30 a month? 00:04:44.674 --> 00:04:45.674 And that if you were able 00:04:45.674 --> 00:04:46.674 to do that, that'd be. 00:04:47.004 --> 00:04:50.414 15, 000 reoccurring revenue every month. 00:04:50.464 --> 00:04:54.234 And that's a livable wage for most 00:04:54.234 --> 00:04:55.404 people out there, I would assume. 00:04:55.954 --> 00:04:57.934 And you can just grow from there. 00:04:58.844 --> 00:04:59.844 So that's kind of the idea 00:04:59.844 --> 00:05:00.794 of stacking the bricks. 00:05:00.974 --> 00:05:03.494 Uh, John, does, does that make more sense? 00:05:04.864 --> 00:05:05.934 Sean Merron: Yeah, it does. 00:05:05.964 --> 00:05:08.974 And I love how he used the term. 00:05:08.974 --> 00:05:10.244 I never heard it put like this. 00:05:10.474 --> 00:05:11.694 I mean, I think a friend said it to him. 00:05:11.694 --> 00:05:13.434 You just mentioned it, the whole project. 00:05:13.444 --> 00:05:13.784 Mike. 00:05:13.814 --> 00:05:14.924 Now I'm trying to think of myself like 00:05:14.924 --> 00:05:17.594 project Sean, like everything that I'm 00:05:17.594 --> 00:05:20.494 doing in my career, my personal life, the 00:05:20.494 --> 00:05:22.164 different things I'm learning, different 00:05:22.164 --> 00:05:23.894 side projects I'm starting, it's all a 00:05:23.894 --> 00:05:28.104 part of project Sean, like I have to be. 00:05:29.049 --> 00:05:30.629 almost intentional about kind of stepping 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:31.949 back sometimes and looking at all the 00:05:31.949 --> 00:05:34.829 different things I'm doing that are the 00:05:34.829 --> 00:05:37.069 different threads of, you know, income 00:05:37.069 --> 00:05:39.029 or just even non income threads, threads 00:05:39.029 --> 00:05:40.909 of education and continuous learning. 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.309 He mentioned that how side projects 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:44.789 to him are kind of like continuing 00:05:44.799 --> 00:05:48.389 education in this uncredentialed job of 00:05:48.709 --> 00:05:51.019 software engineer, you know, where in 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:52.369 some other careers they have to actually 00:05:52.369 --> 00:05:53.829 do continue education, we have to make 00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:55.809 the choice to do continuing education. 00:05:56.069 --> 00:05:56.899 And it's all part. 00:05:57.214 --> 00:05:59.664 Of this larger project that we're working 00:05:59.664 --> 00:06:02.064 on that could eventually become the next 00:06:02.504 --> 00:06:04.534 thread, the next big project, you know, 00:06:04.534 --> 00:06:06.614 all the things that you've maybe done 00:06:07.064 --> 00:06:08.884 independently, starting to see those 00:06:08.884 --> 00:06:10.454 maybe a line, something you've learned 00:06:10.454 --> 00:06:11.994 from it, something that you're now 00:06:12.024 --> 00:06:13.634 finding that could be just one degree 00:06:13.634 --> 00:06:16.534 of separation from the other and just. 00:06:16.694 --> 00:06:18.824 The, the next set of income that 00:06:18.824 --> 00:06:20.354 you're looking to go and achieve. 00:06:21.014 --> 00:06:24.254 And I've heard it many times said to 00:06:24.254 --> 00:06:26.394 me, I've said it probably many times, 00:06:26.394 --> 00:06:29.474 how everything we do, we, we, it's 00:06:29.474 --> 00:06:31.274 not win or fail, it's win or learn. 00:06:31.544 --> 00:06:31.934 Right. 00:06:32.104 --> 00:06:34.624 And so many times you hear, I think 00:06:34.624 --> 00:06:36.404 that word failures, it's just, it's 00:06:36.404 --> 00:06:37.574 just has such a negative connotation, 00:06:37.584 --> 00:06:39.904 obviously, but, you know, people 00:06:39.904 --> 00:06:41.294 are like fail fast, fail fast. 00:06:41.294 --> 00:06:42.904 I'm like, learn fast, go test fast. 00:06:43.214 --> 00:06:44.314 That's what you're really doing. 00:06:44.314 --> 00:06:45.624 You're really, you're performing other 00:06:45.624 --> 00:06:46.694 tests to see, figure out what would 00:06:46.704 --> 00:06:48.104 be successful and what would not be. 00:06:48.524 --> 00:06:49.924 And even with our show here, right. 00:06:49.924 --> 00:06:52.254 With the multi threaded income podcast, 00:06:53.154 --> 00:06:54.914 we're, we're learning some new things. 00:06:54.924 --> 00:06:56.404 We're doing we're literally right now. 00:06:56.404 --> 00:06:58.854 Like we're on squad cast, right? 00:06:59.414 --> 00:07:00.934 First time using this all together, 00:07:01.344 --> 00:07:04.454 using Descript to as a tool to, 00:07:04.504 --> 00:07:06.104 uh, chop together videos and create 00:07:06.104 --> 00:07:07.154 YouTube shorts using YouTube. 00:07:07.654 --> 00:07:08.974 Brand new first time I've ever done 00:07:08.974 --> 00:07:10.894 YouTube shorts, we're doing a lot of this 00:07:11.054 --> 00:07:12.724 stuff ourselves, which we'll get probably 00:07:12.724 --> 00:07:15.244 into some DIY stuff later on here and talk 00:07:15.244 --> 00:07:16.534 a little bit about that and bootstrapping 00:07:16.924 --> 00:07:19.344 things, but it's all coming together. 00:07:19.354 --> 00:07:20.974 It's all adding up to me personally and 00:07:20.974 --> 00:07:22.804 project Sean, and as well as you all. 00:07:23.034 --> 00:07:24.574 And your different overall 00:07:24.804 --> 00:07:26.344 projects that you're working on 00:07:26.751 --> 00:07:28.191 Chad Carter: I also liked the whole 00:07:28.191 --> 00:07:30.671 concept of Project Mike, and 00:07:30.731 --> 00:07:33.081 just the notion of thinking about 00:07:33.161 --> 00:07:34.841 everything that you have learned, 00:07:35.101 --> 00:07:36.721 all these skills that you've built 00:07:36.721 --> 00:07:38.921 up, and seeing where you are today. 00:07:39.336 --> 00:07:40.866 And not so much about the last 00:07:40.866 --> 00:07:42.356 thing that you attempted, and 00:07:42.356 --> 00:07:43.856 maybe it didn't go so well. 00:07:43.926 --> 00:07:45.756 Whether we call it a failure or just 00:07:45.756 --> 00:07:47.306 a learning experience, it obviously 00:07:47.306 --> 00:07:49.106 didn't go, uh, that way we want. 00:07:49.556 --> 00:07:52.736 And we just wrapped up a challenge, and, 00:07:53.416 --> 00:07:55.906 and one of the days, uh, we were actually 00:07:55.906 --> 00:07:57.826 talking about some mindset, uh, items. 00:07:58.256 --> 00:08:00.866 And one of the tasks or items that 00:08:00.866 --> 00:08:02.486 was in there was around, uh, this 00:08:02.486 --> 00:08:05.286 concept of, you know, minding the gap. 00:08:06.161 --> 00:08:08.441 And just the idea is, when you're 00:08:08.441 --> 00:08:11.401 focused on where you want to be, and 00:08:11.571 --> 00:08:12.691 how you're frustrated that you're 00:08:12.691 --> 00:08:15.321 not there yet, um, you know, it 00:08:15.321 --> 00:08:16.951 doesn't actually serve you well. 00:08:17.111 --> 00:08:18.451 Instead, if you look back at all the 00:08:18.451 --> 00:08:20.621 things that you've done, From where 00:08:20.621 --> 00:08:22.301 you started out to where you are today, 00:08:22.621 --> 00:08:23.911 that can actually build a momentum. 00:08:23.911 --> 00:08:25.091 In fact, I actually created a, 00:08:25.261 --> 00:08:27.091 just, uh, was thinking about that. 00:08:27.091 --> 00:08:28.201 Obviously since the challenge, I 00:08:28.201 --> 00:08:30.821 created a, um, a post now I'm just 00:08:30.821 --> 00:08:32.201 going to read here just because it's, 00:08:32.211 --> 00:08:34.741 it's, it's post on Twitter or X now. 00:08:34.771 --> 00:08:36.341 So it's super short, which is, you 00:08:36.341 --> 00:08:37.381 know, if you're working towards a long 00:08:37.381 --> 00:08:38.761 term goal and it's taken longer than 00:08:38.761 --> 00:08:40.861 expected, well, don't dwell on the gap. 00:08:41.391 --> 00:08:43.411 of where you are and where you want to be. 00:08:43.411 --> 00:08:45.021 Instead, think about where you started 00:08:45.021 --> 00:08:47.041 out and how far you've come and then 00:08:47.051 --> 00:08:48.961 use that momentum to close the gap. 00:08:49.291 --> 00:08:50.401 Now, there's anything that's just 00:08:50.431 --> 00:08:52.881 really a good mindset to be in is 00:08:53.021 --> 00:08:55.591 figuring out, you know, how far you've 00:08:55.591 --> 00:08:58.581 come and be happy with yourself. 00:08:58.761 --> 00:09:00.021 You know, if everything 00:09:00.021 --> 00:09:01.681 doesn't go away, go okay. 00:09:01.741 --> 00:09:03.221 Every time you, you know, got out 00:09:03.231 --> 00:09:04.091 the gate and you're trying to start 00:09:04.091 --> 00:09:05.651 something new, that's all right. 00:09:06.001 --> 00:09:06.831 As Sean was just saying, 00:09:07.071 --> 00:09:08.391 we're building skill sets. 00:09:08.441 --> 00:09:09.361 You're learning something. 00:09:09.771 --> 00:09:11.391 And if you have a skill set, 00:09:11.816 --> 00:09:13.266 You are marketable, right? 00:09:13.376 --> 00:09:14.926 You can provide value to somebody 00:09:15.736 --> 00:09:16.906 by building up your skill set. 00:09:17.126 --> 00:09:18.816 And if you can provide value to somebody, 00:09:19.016 --> 00:09:21.226 well, that's how you can get compensated. 00:09:21.446 --> 00:09:23.196 So I think that's kind of my, my big 00:09:23.196 --> 00:09:26.536 thing is if you, if you can provide value 00:09:26.536 --> 00:09:27.936 to somebody, you can get compensated. 00:09:27.996 --> 00:09:29.486 And the way you provide value is 00:09:29.486 --> 00:09:30.536 by building up your skill set. 00:09:32.581 --> 00:09:34.251 Sean Merron: and Chad, also during 00:09:34.251 --> 00:09:35.471 that conversation, our challenge 00:09:35.471 --> 00:09:37.781 about the mindset you had brought 00:09:37.791 --> 00:09:40.531 up a, uh, the concept, they were 00:09:40.581 --> 00:09:42.071 actually, I thought about it as I 00:09:42.071 --> 00:09:44.231 was listening to Buck B talk, you 00:09:44.231 --> 00:09:45.351 mentioned a little bit earlier about 00:09:45.361 --> 00:09:48.031 how humble, uh, Buck B is Kevin, right? 00:09:48.391 --> 00:09:50.881 And it's almost like the, I forget, I 00:09:50.881 --> 00:09:52.041 forget which point it was, Chad, you may 00:09:52.041 --> 00:09:54.691 recall it here as I'm talking, but we're. 00:09:55.201 --> 00:09:56.951 You, there's little wins, you get kind 00:09:56.951 --> 00:09:58.741 of like, uh, minimizing those, you 00:09:58.841 --> 00:10:01.401 know, like not realizing like the, the 00:10:01.411 --> 00:10:02.771 awesome thing you did, I kept finding 00:10:02.771 --> 00:10:03.941 Kevin constantly like, hold on, you just, 00:10:04.391 --> 00:10:06.101 you just, uh, just glaze past something 00:10:06.131 --> 00:10:07.921 like really awesome that a lot of people 00:10:07.921 --> 00:10:09.211 would be pretty stoked about, you know? 00:10:09.611 --> 00:10:11.531 And I know sometimes I might do that 00:10:11.531 --> 00:10:12.611 where I'm like, Oh, it wasn't really 00:10:12.611 --> 00:10:14.251 that much I made on that project. 00:10:14.281 --> 00:10:16.121 Uh, or I, I, I'm even guilty of that 00:10:16.121 --> 00:10:17.341 where maybe I should be a little more 00:10:17.341 --> 00:10:18.861 grateful and like kind of celebrate 00:10:18.891 --> 00:10:19.971 a little bit more of some of the. 00:10:20.111 --> 00:10:21.051 Some of the wins, even if it's 00:10:21.121 --> 00:10:22.341 anything more than zero, right. 00:10:22.341 --> 00:10:23.491 Where I was able to get someone, 00:10:23.711 --> 00:10:25.081 some stranger stranger money. 00:10:25.081 --> 00:10:26.561 You mentioned many times, Kevin, in 00:10:26.571 --> 00:10:28.691 the past that was able to buy something 00:10:28.691 --> 00:10:30.281 that I did and really compensate 00:10:30.281 --> 00:10:32.541 me for a skill that I have and 00:10:32.731 --> 00:10:34.081 produce something for them, a value 00:10:35.551 --> 00:10:36.681 Chad Carter: one of the concepts 00:10:36.681 --> 00:10:37.791 that you were asked about there 00:10:37.791 --> 00:10:38.801 in the challenge, it was, it was 00:10:38.841 --> 00:10:41.281 from the book, um, the big leap. 00:10:41.291 --> 00:10:42.501 So I'd highly recommend that book 00:10:42.501 --> 00:10:44.501 has by a gay Hendricks, but he just 00:10:44.891 --> 00:10:46.261 talks about an upper limit problem. 00:10:46.471 --> 00:10:47.511 And one of the, and he has 00:10:47.511 --> 00:10:48.291 like four different barriers. 00:10:48.291 --> 00:10:49.161 He talks about, you know, one of 00:10:49.191 --> 00:10:51.711 those is the fact that we deflect, we 00:10:51.711 --> 00:10:53.771 don't actually accept appreciation. 00:10:53.961 --> 00:10:55.371 And it's something I struggle with a lot. 00:10:55.411 --> 00:10:56.651 It's like, oh, you did a 00:10:56.651 --> 00:10:57.241 really good job of that. 00:10:57.311 --> 00:10:58.611 Yeah, well, I totally messed this 00:10:58.611 --> 00:10:59.881 thing up and it, you know, and we 00:10:59.881 --> 00:11:01.491 just deflect actually accepting. 00:11:02.036 --> 00:11:05.216 You know, um, praise basically. 00:11:05.556 --> 00:11:09.296 And so when you do that, it's like a 00:11:09.296 --> 00:11:11.446 subconscious thing that you think that 00:11:11.446 --> 00:11:13.256 what you've done, that you, what you 00:11:13.256 --> 00:11:14.776 just accomplished, wasn't all that great. 00:11:15.126 --> 00:11:17.346 And it doesn't actually serve you well. 00:11:17.476 --> 00:11:19.756 So actually, uh, receiving the 00:11:19.756 --> 00:11:21.486 compliment can be good again. 00:11:21.496 --> 00:11:22.836 I'm working on this cause I'm not good at 00:11:22.836 --> 00:11:24.466 it at all, but you receive the compliment, 00:11:25.566 --> 00:11:27.196 you know, actually do accept it. 00:11:27.621 --> 00:11:28.951 And then if there's something that 00:11:28.951 --> 00:11:30.081 you're still thinking in your mind, 00:11:30.081 --> 00:11:31.671 but, but man, this went bad and I 00:11:31.671 --> 00:11:32.901 didn't do this right, and this thing 00:11:32.941 --> 00:11:34.891 wasn't, wasn't good, and you're wanting 00:11:34.891 --> 00:11:36.631 feedback on that, then that's fine. 00:11:36.631 --> 00:11:37.771 You still accept the compliment, but 00:11:37.861 --> 00:11:39.511 then turn around and say, okay, but 00:11:39.541 --> 00:11:41.241 I would like to know this, you know, 00:11:41.441 --> 00:11:43.331 when I said this, I didn't feel like 00:11:43.341 --> 00:11:45.201 that came across well, again, I'm 00:11:45.201 --> 00:11:46.431 not fishing for a compliment here. 00:11:46.431 --> 00:11:47.681 I don't need this, but I 00:11:47.691 --> 00:11:48.541 am looking for feedback. 00:11:48.551 --> 00:11:49.251 What do you think about this? 00:11:49.261 --> 00:11:50.421 And, and that'll actually give 00:11:50.421 --> 00:11:51.861 that person the opportunity 00:11:51.861 --> 00:11:53.141 to give you valid feedback. 00:11:53.801 --> 00:11:54.711 Especially if they just told you 00:11:54.711 --> 00:11:56.091 you did a good job, and if there's 00:11:56.091 --> 00:11:57.091 something you can improve on, you'll 00:11:57.091 --> 00:11:58.441 typically learn something from that. 00:11:58.451 --> 00:11:59.811 So, yeah, that's something I've 00:11:59.811 --> 00:12:01.581 been personally working on a lot, is 00:12:01.581 --> 00:12:03.141 just kind of shutting off somebody's 00:12:03.141 --> 00:12:04.681 compliment instead of accepting it. 00:12:04.711 --> 00:12:06.491 And actually, because that will build 00:12:06.491 --> 00:12:08.501 up momentum to continue to move forward 00:12:08.851 --> 00:12:11.131 and not think about all these failures, 00:12:11.151 --> 00:12:13.041 quote unquote, that, you know, we've had. 00:12:13.041 --> 00:12:14.651 But actually, uh, building 00:12:14.651 --> 00:12:15.861 towards successes, building up 00:12:15.861 --> 00:12:17.831 our toolbox, our skill set, you 00:12:17.831 --> 00:12:19.721 know, our project of our name. 00:12:19.966 --> 00:12:21.106 If you will project Mike. 00:12:21.329 --> 00:12:22.999 Kevin Griffin: One of the other topics we 00:12:23.019 --> 00:12:27.689 wanted to discuss was Buck B is all about 00:12:27.829 --> 00:12:29.839 systems and he was talking about Venn 00:12:29.849 --> 00:12:31.869 diagrams and how does he figure out what 00:12:31.869 --> 00:12:33.369 type of business he wants to work on next? 00:12:34.209 --> 00:12:36.629 And I think it's really 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:38.819 useful to take his. 00:12:39.574 --> 00:12:42.034 His framework into account when picking 00:12:42.034 --> 00:12:43.524 out what type of business you want 00:12:43.524 --> 00:12:45.844 to do, because some businesses are 00:12:45.854 --> 00:12:47.544 better students to make money than 00:12:47.554 --> 00:12:50.604 others are so specifically like B to 00:12:50.614 --> 00:12:52.854 B or I know we're throwing buzzwords 00:12:52.854 --> 00:12:54.364 around, but it's business to business. 00:12:54.464 --> 00:12:55.904 If I'm a business selling a service 00:12:55.914 --> 00:12:58.214 to another business businesses. 00:12:58.644 --> 00:12:59.944 Like spending money. 00:13:00.064 --> 00:13:01.274 If it solves a problem, 00:13:01.274 --> 00:13:02.224 they like to spend money. 00:13:02.834 --> 00:13:05.354 B to C, which is business to 00:13:05.834 --> 00:13:07.654 consumer or business to customer. 00:13:08.164 --> 00:13:10.274 You are dealing with individual people. 00:13:10.514 --> 00:13:12.814 And most individual people I know 00:13:12.814 --> 00:13:14.944 are stingy as heck with their 00:13:14.944 --> 00:13:16.734 money, or at least, you know, at 00:13:16.734 --> 00:13:17.854 least for the stuff I'm selling. 00:13:18.574 --> 00:13:23.264 If it's An ad hoc item in Walmart, they 00:13:23.274 --> 00:13:24.754 might be willing to drop the money on it. 00:13:24.764 --> 00:13:26.754 No problem, but it's harder 00:13:26.754 --> 00:13:28.264 to sell directly to consumers 00:13:28.614 --> 00:13:30.714 than it is to, to businesses. 00:13:31.204 --> 00:13:33.174 And he also threw around some buzzwords 00:13:33.214 --> 00:13:38.664 like DIY and DFY and Chad, I know that was 00:13:38.694 --> 00:13:40.294 one of the items that you kind of went, 00:13:40.364 --> 00:13:43.184 I want, I want to talk more about that. 00:13:43.254 --> 00:13:44.014 So I'm going to give 00:13:44.014 --> 00:13:44.844 you the opportunity now. 00:13:44.954 --> 00:13:45.834 And you said there was some 00:13:45.834 --> 00:13:48.574 stuff missing from, from Mike's 00:13:48.769 --> 00:13:50.149 Chad Carter: he, he just simply had it 00:13:50.149 --> 00:13:52.459 in, uh, a bit of conversation there. 00:13:52.459 --> 00:13:53.239 It wasn't like he was trying 00:13:53.239 --> 00:13:54.409 to go deep into, you know, 00:13:54.414 --> 00:13:55.249 all these different concepts. 00:13:55.249 --> 00:13:56.029 So basically you got three 00:13:56.029 --> 00:13:56.599 different things, right? 00:13:56.599 --> 00:13:59.239 You got, uh, DIY, do it yourself. 00:13:59.269 --> 00:14:02.899 Then you got, uh, DWY done with 00:14:02.899 --> 00:14:04.849 you, and then you got DFY, which 00:14:04.849 --> 00:14:08.139 is done for you, and typically. 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.309 The done, you know, do it yourself 00:14:11.319 --> 00:14:13.729 things are around products and one 00:14:13.869 --> 00:14:15.049 during the challenge and all the stuff 00:14:15.049 --> 00:14:16.909 is fresh in my head since we just ran a 00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:18.589 challenge and one, I think on the very 00:14:18.589 --> 00:14:19.819 first day we talked about all kinds 00:14:19.819 --> 00:14:20.829 of different business types that you 00:14:20.839 --> 00:14:23.709 had and personality types and, um, you 00:14:23.709 --> 00:14:25.079 know, how you'd go about, you know, 00:14:25.149 --> 00:14:26.709 kind of matching things up together 00:14:27.579 --> 00:14:31.499 and the do it yourself approach It's a 00:14:31.499 --> 00:14:32.909 lot with the products because the idea 00:14:32.909 --> 00:14:34.279 is you're making a product and then 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:35.259 somebody's going to buy that product 00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:36.769 and go do something with that product. 00:14:36.849 --> 00:14:38.999 They're doing it themselves versus 00:14:39.109 --> 00:14:42.419 most services Um or more of a done 00:14:42.439 --> 00:14:45.899 for you approach dfy, which is hey. 00:14:45.959 --> 00:14:47.889 Oh, you need an e commerce system Well, 00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:49.759 let me go and actually spin up an e 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:50.639 commerce system Whether i'm building 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:52.999 myself my own set you up on spot shopify 00:14:53.029 --> 00:14:54.749 set up a wordpress Google commerce like 00:14:54.749 --> 00:14:56.299 whatever the case is i'm going to go 00:14:56.339 --> 00:14:57.649 and do this thing for you So at the 00:14:57.649 --> 00:14:59.769 end result you just give me money and 00:14:59.769 --> 00:15:01.279 then you have an e commerce site It's 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:03.379 done for you, and then you can have, 00:15:03.549 --> 00:15:04.779 uh, other things that are more like 00:15:04.839 --> 00:15:07.219 in the middle is a done with you and 00:15:07.219 --> 00:15:09.929 the done with you, um, could be like a 00:15:09.979 --> 00:15:12.409 coaching program, for example, which is. 00:15:13.049 --> 00:15:16.359 You want help trading something or 00:15:16.449 --> 00:15:17.909 creating some milestone in your 00:15:17.909 --> 00:15:19.269 life or doing whatever the case is. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.889 And I'm going to come along beside you 00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:24.059 and actually coach you through that. 00:15:24.829 --> 00:15:26.039 So I'm actually doing this 00:15:26.049 --> 00:15:27.589 with you to begin with, showing 00:15:27.589 --> 00:15:28.809 you the skillsets you need. 00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:30.649 And then ultimately you're going 00:15:30.649 --> 00:15:32.329 to do it yourself, but it's a, it's 00:15:32.329 --> 00:15:33.569 more of like a transitional period. 00:15:33.589 --> 00:15:34.909 So it's not all just done for you. 00:15:34.909 --> 00:15:36.649 Hey, and I was listening to. 00:15:37.909 --> 00:15:41.139 Alex Ramosi over the weekend, um, uh, a 00:15:41.139 --> 00:15:43.019 popular guy, super successful, lots of 00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:45.369 businesses, and he's with acquisition. 00:15:45.889 --> 00:15:46.079 com. 00:15:46.079 --> 00:15:46.929 He actually acquires a lot 00:15:46.929 --> 00:15:48.089 of businesses and things. 00:15:48.089 --> 00:15:49.909 What Alex was saying in 00:15:49.909 --> 00:15:52.229 this, uh, commentary I was 00:15:52.229 --> 00:15:53.739 listening to was the fact of. 00:15:54.294 --> 00:15:56.154 You know, when he, when he buys these 00:15:56.194 --> 00:15:58.444 companies, he does these acquisitions, 00:15:58.834 --> 00:16:01.244 um, he actually will bring in agencies 00:16:01.914 --> 00:16:04.714 and while he's doing everything, he'll 00:16:04.714 --> 00:16:06.734 actually say, okay, I need this agency. 00:16:06.944 --> 00:16:08.344 I'm going to pay this agency. 00:16:08.709 --> 00:16:10.479 Uh, certain amount of money, not just 00:16:10.479 --> 00:16:12.579 to do it for me, but to actually teach 00:16:12.579 --> 00:16:13.989 me what it is that they're doing. 00:16:14.219 --> 00:16:15.909 So maybe it's a editing. 00:16:15.909 --> 00:16:16.979 So let's say we want to bring 00:16:16.979 --> 00:16:18.689 in somebody to edit our videos. 00:16:18.969 --> 00:16:20.109 Then if you instead of just getting 00:16:20.109 --> 00:16:21.699 an agency to, I want you to hire you 00:16:21.699 --> 00:16:23.299 from here till the end of time to 00:16:23.299 --> 00:16:25.779 edit our videos, it's, I want to build 00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:27.609 the skillset of editing the video. 00:16:27.609 --> 00:16:28.979 So I'm going to hire this agency 00:16:29.259 --> 00:16:31.649 that does the editing for us. 00:16:32.029 --> 00:16:34.059 And but during the process, I'm not going 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:35.829 to pay them more, but it's a six months in 00:16:35.829 --> 00:16:37.259 the game to teach me everything they know. 00:16:37.524 --> 00:16:39.724 Or for example, what if you were trying 00:16:39.724 --> 00:16:41.824 to start your own development agency 00:16:42.154 --> 00:16:44.724 and you had a project, you know, so 00:16:44.724 --> 00:16:45.824 Sean, I know you're actually working 00:16:45.824 --> 00:16:47.494 on a project right now and you have 00:16:47.494 --> 00:16:48.434 them bringing in, you know, some 00:16:48.434 --> 00:16:49.724 contractors to help you with this. 00:16:50.034 --> 00:16:51.904 So an approach that could have 00:16:51.904 --> 00:16:54.684 been taken is actually hire a 00:16:54.734 --> 00:16:56.894 development agency to do it, but 00:16:56.944 --> 00:16:59.064 pay them a little bit more with. 00:16:59.434 --> 00:17:00.794 I want to understand your processes. 00:17:00.874 --> 00:17:02.334 How do you go about hiring people? 00:17:02.374 --> 00:17:03.854 How do you go about building up your 00:17:03.854 --> 00:17:05.754 own stuff so that I can turn around 00:17:05.784 --> 00:17:06.884 and do the same thing and build my 00:17:06.884 --> 00:17:08.534 own development agency, basically. 00:17:08.554 --> 00:17:10.194 Or if I didn't want to build my own 00:17:10.234 --> 00:17:12.234 development agency, bring in developers 00:17:12.244 --> 00:17:13.724 and train them in such a way that they can 00:17:13.724 --> 00:17:15.894 be I would say profitable, but more like 00:17:15.894 --> 00:17:17.064 productive is the word I was looking for. 00:17:17.064 --> 00:17:18.394 So they'd be extremely productive 00:17:18.394 --> 00:17:20.164 as soon as they get into the 00:17:20.164 --> 00:17:21.134 door hitting the ground running. 00:17:21.134 --> 00:17:23.204 So it's all about, uh, leveraging 00:17:23.214 --> 00:17:25.784 somebody else's talents up front. 00:17:26.104 --> 00:17:27.734 So it's almost like a done for you, 00:17:27.994 --> 00:17:30.114 but by the time it's all done, sit and 00:17:30.114 --> 00:17:31.794 done, you'll do it yourself because 00:17:31.874 --> 00:17:33.184 it really wasn't a done for you. 00:17:33.184 --> 00:17:34.024 It was a done with you. 00:17:36.164 --> 00:17:36.554 Sean Merron: That's neat. 00:17:36.554 --> 00:17:37.124 I hadn't even heard of 00:17:37.124 --> 00:17:38.924 those other terms before. 00:17:39.014 --> 00:17:40.304 I haven't heard of df, uh, 00:17:40.334 --> 00:17:43.754 DFY or D four UDD with you. 00:17:43.754 --> 00:17:45.614 DWI I've only heard of do it 00:17:45.614 --> 00:17:47.444 yourself, so that was new to me. 00:17:47.444 --> 00:17:48.434 Interesting to hear about those. 00:17:48.794 --> 00:17:49.634 And yeah, it kind of scares 00:17:49.634 --> 00:17:51.014 me with the work that I'm 00:17:51.014 --> 00:17:52.214 subcontracting out right now. 00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:53.894 The, the one thing that keeps 00:17:53.894 --> 00:17:55.154 me up at night with that is 00:17:55.154 --> 00:17:56.069 the whole, when it's done. 00:17:56.854 --> 00:17:58.324 If something needs to get updated 00:17:58.334 --> 00:17:59.614 after the fact, who's going to do 00:17:59.614 --> 00:18:00.584 it, how's it going to get done? 00:18:00.664 --> 00:18:01.744 I'm going to have to go find someone else. 00:18:01.744 --> 00:18:03.064 What if this person is not around anymore? 00:18:03.064 --> 00:18:04.204 What if something happens to them? 00:18:04.524 --> 00:18:05.464 They're not available because of 00:18:05.464 --> 00:18:06.874 another contract they're working on. 00:18:07.394 --> 00:18:08.534 So, yeah, that's one, one way to 00:18:08.534 --> 00:18:10.624 either learn it myself or another way 00:18:11.014 --> 00:18:13.364 is to make sure they're building some 00:18:13.364 --> 00:18:15.164 architectural diagrams and document 00:18:15.184 --> 00:18:16.474 documentation along with that. 00:18:16.534 --> 00:18:18.344 Getting access to the source control as 00:18:18.344 --> 00:18:19.884 much as I can to try and alleviate that 00:18:19.884 --> 00:18:21.274 risk a little bit to make it easier. 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.649 But, but Buckby, it was interesting. 00:18:24.959 --> 00:18:25.969 I've heard this twice now. 00:18:25.979 --> 00:18:26.519 We've heard this. 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:27.969 We have heard this really twice 00:18:27.969 --> 00:18:30.719 now from two really successful 00:18:30.939 --> 00:18:31.909 entrepreneurs out there with 00:18:31.939 --> 00:18:34.269 Buckby and also, uh, Brett Fisher. 00:18:34.659 --> 00:18:36.879 The next concept of this Venn diagram. 00:18:36.919 --> 00:18:38.339 They both use that term and I think 00:18:38.349 --> 00:18:39.959 they then both kind of transition is 00:18:39.969 --> 00:18:41.494 saying the word framework as well. 00:18:41.824 --> 00:18:44.034 When they go into assessing new 00:18:44.034 --> 00:18:45.924 business ideas or new projects and such. 00:18:46.534 --> 00:18:48.364 And so it's cool to see how they, they 00:18:48.394 --> 00:18:49.804 each have like kind of figured out 00:18:49.814 --> 00:18:51.794 over time, the things that are really 00:18:51.794 --> 00:18:53.584 important to learning about what would 00:18:53.594 --> 00:18:55.574 be a successful project or engagement. 00:18:56.384 --> 00:18:58.184 So the one that stood out to me the 00:18:58.184 --> 00:19:01.144 most was the whole B2C versus B2B and 00:19:01.144 --> 00:19:04.334 how both of them, uh, been a little 00:19:04.334 --> 00:19:07.194 more successful in the B2B realm, at 00:19:07.194 --> 00:19:08.684 least initially I know it's consulting. 00:19:08.934 --> 00:19:09.564 I know they've done some 00:19:09.564 --> 00:19:11.434 stuff with Docker and Heroku. 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:12.919 And it's kind of like, okay, maybe 00:19:12.919 --> 00:19:13.919 some independent developers are 00:19:13.929 --> 00:19:15.469 doing some of that stuff as well. 00:19:15.469 --> 00:19:16.479 But I also know there's a lot of big 00:19:16.479 --> 00:19:18.799 businesses that are really doing a lot 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.109 of work and maybe where those engineers 00:19:20.109 --> 00:19:22.249 work for that are probably benefiting 00:19:22.249 --> 00:19:23.419 from a lot of material that they're both 00:19:23.419 --> 00:19:26.799 producing and I see this a lot and just. 00:19:27.554 --> 00:19:29.764 The, the industry I'm in as well, uh, 00:19:29.914 --> 00:19:31.554 currently I do a lot in the auto industry 00:19:31.554 --> 00:19:32.734 and it's a lot with other dealerships, 00:19:33.084 --> 00:19:35.734 um, or OEM manufacturers, these big, 00:19:35.744 --> 00:19:38.384 large enterprises that have had success 00:19:38.414 --> 00:19:40.624 with consumers directly are now needing 00:19:40.624 --> 00:19:42.584 to streamline their processes, automate. 00:19:42.624 --> 00:19:44.294 So we have an opportunity as engineers, 00:19:44.574 --> 00:19:46.254 obviously not only be hired directly 00:19:46.254 --> 00:19:50.214 as employees, B2B fashion, and it's, 00:19:50.224 --> 00:19:52.344 it's neat how Buck B realized like. 00:19:52.864 --> 00:19:54.054 The more, more successful I'll 00:19:54.054 --> 00:19:55.654 probably be is going to be somewhat 00:19:55.654 --> 00:19:57.544 tied in the relation of how close 00:19:57.544 --> 00:19:59.894 it is to a B2B versus a B2C, right? 00:20:00.864 --> 00:20:03.594 And something for everybody, everybody 00:20:03.594 --> 00:20:04.704 really to be mindful and listening. 00:20:04.704 --> 00:20:06.604 I've tried a lot of B2C products, 00:20:07.314 --> 00:20:10.424 um, and have not been as successful. 00:20:10.774 --> 00:20:12.364 Uh, content creation. 00:20:12.364 --> 00:20:13.184 We're doing that here. 00:20:13.184 --> 00:20:14.824 We're trying to teach engineers, right? 00:20:15.504 --> 00:20:16.954 Things about starting their own business. 00:20:17.284 --> 00:20:17.984 It's difficult. 00:20:17.994 --> 00:20:19.094 Like there's so many people 00:20:19.114 --> 00:20:20.094 paying a lot of money. 00:20:20.344 --> 00:20:22.204 To get into your ears and get in 00:20:22.204 --> 00:20:23.394 front of you with advertisements. 00:20:23.834 --> 00:20:26.404 And for one of us or anyone 00:20:26.404 --> 00:20:27.664 listening that right now, that 00:20:27.674 --> 00:20:28.964 much might just be independent. 00:20:28.964 --> 00:20:30.084 It's going to, it's very difficult to 00:20:30.084 --> 00:20:32.044 get in front of that consumer directly 00:20:32.044 --> 00:20:33.424 with all that competition you have. 00:20:33.974 --> 00:20:35.414 And it also kind of makes me realize 00:20:35.414 --> 00:20:39.604 the, the, I guess, low amount, low volume 00:20:39.654 --> 00:20:41.644 of things that people actually buy. 00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:43.539 You mentioned earlier, Kevin, like 00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:45.229 how stringent someone might be with 00:20:45.229 --> 00:20:46.219 their money, with their finances. 00:20:46.219 --> 00:20:47.619 I mean, yes, engineers, but 00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:48.489 we're guilty of it as well. 00:20:48.489 --> 00:20:49.529 You know, I have to be really 00:20:49.649 --> 00:20:50.799 mindful of the things I buy. 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.419 I don't probably buy a lot of things 00:20:52.469 --> 00:20:54.629 for myself, to be honest, outside 00:20:54.629 --> 00:20:57.159 of the things I need, um, with 00:20:57.179 --> 00:20:58.779 my, you know, house car, and maybe 00:20:58.779 --> 00:21:00.339 there's a few little things I buy. 00:21:00.899 --> 00:21:02.949 So really the opportunities for 00:21:02.969 --> 00:21:05.339 B2C, you know, the, the large 00:21:05.449 --> 00:21:06.769 enterprise companies, right. 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.019 I've taken and scooped up a lot of those. 00:21:09.169 --> 00:21:10.719 And now it's kind of like, we're kind of 00:21:10.719 --> 00:21:12.209 getting that secondhand trying to get an, 00:21:12.659 --> 00:21:14.019 our own cut of that right through some 00:21:14.019 --> 00:21:15.779 of this B2B stuff we're trying to do. 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:16.959 And you could be more successful 00:21:16.959 --> 00:21:19.139 in getting, getting a client 00:21:19.139 --> 00:21:20.029 or a project that way. 00:21:20.029 --> 00:21:22.249 And then maybe from there you can start to 00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:25.799 find ways then to merge from B2B into B2C 00:21:26.169 --> 00:21:28.019 or start to tap into a little bit of that 00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:30.029 revenue that's in that similar industry 00:21:30.029 --> 00:21:31.699 or only in one degree of separation. 00:21:32.959 --> 00:21:33.949 Kevin Griffin: I think a really 00:21:33.949 --> 00:21:36.309 good analogy to this conversation 00:21:36.309 --> 00:21:39.259 is when I was much younger. 00:21:39.259 --> 00:21:43.249 So let's say college and I really needed 00:21:43.899 --> 00:21:47.664 an imaging Our image editing program 00:21:47.924 --> 00:21:49.944 and Photoshop was what everyone used. 00:21:50.284 --> 00:21:51.434 And I was in college and I was 00:21:51.464 --> 00:21:53.714 like, I can't afford Photoshop. 00:21:54.064 --> 00:21:57.414 And I might have gotten my hand on 00:21:57.414 --> 00:22:01.654 Photoshop in non moral ways, but. 00:22:02.424 --> 00:22:05.764 I remember trying to look for alternatives 00:22:06.064 --> 00:22:09.984 to Photoshop that would solve my problem. 00:22:10.314 --> 00:22:12.174 And in a lot of cases they did, 00:22:12.184 --> 00:22:14.214 but the tools available were 00:22:14.794 --> 00:22:17.064 not as polished as Photoshop. 00:22:17.064 --> 00:22:18.164 So it took me more time to, 00:22:18.414 --> 00:22:19.434 to accomplish the result. 00:22:19.814 --> 00:22:21.074 Whereas I could have just paid for 00:22:21.074 --> 00:22:23.444 Photoshop and have the job done for me. 00:22:23.774 --> 00:22:25.844 So I went the free route, took longer. 00:22:26.304 --> 00:22:27.694 And it was more painful. 00:22:28.434 --> 00:22:32.114 And as I got into my first professional 00:22:32.124 --> 00:22:33.724 gigs, it was still kind of the same way. 00:22:33.724 --> 00:22:34.844 I'm like, well, if the business 00:22:34.844 --> 00:22:36.044 provides it to me, awesome. 00:22:36.054 --> 00:22:37.914 If not, I'll still try to use 00:22:37.914 --> 00:22:39.624 these free open source approaches. 00:22:40.064 --> 00:22:41.224 And then when I started my business 00:22:41.704 --> 00:22:43.724 and I had regular money came in and I. 00:22:44.229 --> 00:22:45.949 I actually don't remember when it 00:22:45.949 --> 00:22:47.649 was, but it was very long time ago. 00:22:47.679 --> 00:22:49.379 I went, I'm just gonna pay for Photoshop 00:22:50.189 --> 00:22:52.059 and I'm just gonna pay for Premiere. 00:22:52.059 --> 00:22:53.349 I'm gonna pay for the tools that I 00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:55.679 know do the job very well, very easily. 00:22:55.679 --> 00:22:58.669 They have the good experiences, and now 00:22:58.679 --> 00:23:00.669 the fees I pay for those tools are drops 00:23:01.059 --> 00:23:05.399 in the bucket compared to, I guess, 00:23:05.789 --> 00:23:07.959 the amount of time I would have spent 00:23:07.979 --> 00:23:10.089 trying to use the free open source tools. 00:23:10.624 --> 00:23:11.674 So I know someone out there is going 00:23:11.674 --> 00:23:12.694 to say, well, the free open source 00:23:12.694 --> 00:23:13.764 tools have gotten so much better and 00:23:13.764 --> 00:23:15.664 you're right, but they're still not 00:23:16.064 --> 00:23:19.244 nearly as good as the Adobe products. 00:23:19.384 --> 00:23:22.054 And I don't, we're not here to talk 00:23:22.064 --> 00:23:23.144 about that, but there's just kind of an 00:23:23.144 --> 00:23:25.694 analogy is when I moved from a consumer 00:23:25.694 --> 00:23:27.524 mindset to a business mindset, it was 00:23:27.524 --> 00:23:28.984 much easier for me to spend money on 00:23:28.984 --> 00:23:30.394 the things that solved my problems. 00:23:30.904 --> 00:23:34.314 And I say this as my Adobe renewals 00:23:34.334 --> 00:23:35.924 coming up and I got the email and went 00:23:36.284 --> 00:23:37.734 and they're raising the price again. 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.349 My first thought was, well, 00:23:40.349 --> 00:23:41.779 do I really need these tools? 00:23:41.989 --> 00:23:43.069 But the handful of times throughout 00:23:43.069 --> 00:23:45.249 the year where I use the tools and 00:23:45.249 --> 00:23:46.339 they do exactly what I need them 00:23:46.339 --> 00:23:48.369 to do, they pay for themselves. 00:23:48.509 --> 00:23:52.549 So I think that's a good analogy for the 00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:56.599 mindset and of consumers, the businesses. 00:23:56.868 --> 00:23:58.108 Well, gentlemen, it's been fun 00:23:58.338 --> 00:24:01.058 chatting about Mike's interview. 00:24:01.078 --> 00:24:02.198 I think there were a lot of 00:24:02.198 --> 00:24:04.198 good tidbits and we, we should. 00:24:04.528 --> 00:24:05.928 Like transition the show just 00:24:05.938 --> 00:24:07.308 to talk about each individual 00:24:07.318 --> 00:24:08.678 thing for half an hour. 00:24:08.908 --> 00:24:11.178 So one episode creates 10 00:24:11.188 --> 00:24:12.308 hours worth of content. 00:24:12.618 --> 00:24:14.718 We're not going to do that yet, but it's a 00:24:14.718 --> 00:24:16.578 good idea, but thank you guys for hanging 00:24:16.578 --> 00:24:18.398 out with me and thanks everyone for 00:24:18.398 --> 00:24:20.038 listening and we'll see you all next time.