Kevin Griffin: Welcome back to the show.
Everyone.
It's commentary time.
Hopefully you all had the opportunity to
listen to our previous episode with Mr.
Mike Buckby and I know Sean and Chad have
had a chance to listen to the episode.
Now, if you didn't get it from
the episode, I have known Mike
Buckby for a very long time.
I have lunch with Mike at least once
every two weeks, we have a little crew
that goes out and has a meal, discusses
our businesses and what we have going on.
And yeah, it's just a good time.
So having Mike on the podcast was
inevitable because He has done so
much that he is just, he just doesn't
talk about publicly very, very
often because he is killing it and
he would never say that to you that
he is killing it in so many ways.
I actually think in the podcast,
he was so good about going, yeah,
well, I had this success and I had
that success and it's all right.
So, but I'm on to this new thing
and he's just such a humble guy.
I love him to death.
I want to start the conversation
actually talking about Mike and
I think Mike made a comment.
In the episode that he calls everything he
does project Mike and so if he's working
on a project, it's working towards project
Mike and I, I kind of like that concept
and he used a term in describing project
Mike called stacking the bricks and.
Sean, Chad, have, have you ever
heard the term stack in the bricks,
Sean Merron: I'm not.
Kevin Griffin: Chad stack in the bricks?
Chad Carter: No, I've never
heard that before the episode.
Kevin Griffin: So I guess it's probably
useful to you all and listeners to kind of
describe what stack in the bricks is from.
That's a term coined by.
Uh, Amy Hoy and Alex Hillman, they
are folks who help people start their
SAS products, uh, start any product is
very similar to, to what we try to do.
And they have a course called 30 by
500, which I think is fascinating.
And you can really tell the people who
are giving legitimate good information
are never get rich quick schemes.
There are always get rich eventually, if
you do the proper things and stacking the
bricks is kind of that process of you do
little things that eventually build the
wall that becomes your, your product or
the, the thing that you're most known for.
So.
If I'm building a product for selling
coaching and knowledge for starting a
side business, one of my bricks might
be starting a podcast and another brick
might be starting a YouTube channel.
Another one might be starting to
write articles on things that my.
Listeners and my readers, my followers,
my community would care about that's
a brick and then you eventually
go and start adding other bricks.
Well, let me add a coaching program
where I can work with people directly
and teach them the things that I know
and help them in whatever ways a brick.
Actually, before that might be start
a challenge, so do a challenge series
where you just get people engaged
and see what's in their heads.
Uh, there's other parts of 35 by 500
that include like the sales safari where
you go off into your communities and
find out what their pain points are and
then you try to figure out how you can
address those pain points in various ways.
And I know what you're
probably out there thinking.
What is 30 by 500 mean?
And the concept there, if I'm saying this
correctly, I believe I am, is that can
you find 500 people to pay you 30 a month?
And that if you were able
to do that, that'd be.
15, 000 reoccurring revenue every month.
And that's a livable wage for most
people out there, I would assume.
And you can just grow from there.
So that's kind of the idea
of stacking the bricks.
Uh, John, does, does that make more sense?
Sean Merron: Yeah, it does.
And I love how he used the term.
I never heard it put like this.
I mean, I think a friend said it to him.
You just mentioned it, the whole project.
Mike.
Now I'm trying to think of myself like
project Sean, like everything that I'm
doing in my career, my personal life, the
different things I'm learning, different
side projects I'm starting, it's all a
part of project Sean, like I have to be.
almost intentional about kind of stepping
back sometimes and looking at all the
different things I'm doing that are the
different threads of, you know, income
or just even non income threads, threads
of education and continuous learning.
He mentioned that how side projects
to him are kind of like continuing
education in this uncredentialed job of
software engineer, you know, where in
some other careers they have to actually
do continue education, we have to make
the choice to do continuing education.
And it's all part.
Of this larger project that we're working
on that could eventually become the next
thread, the next big project, you know,
all the things that you've maybe done
independently, starting to see those
maybe a line, something you've learned
from it, something that you're now
finding that could be just one degree
of separation from the other and just.
The, the next set of income that
you're looking to go and achieve.
And I've heard it many times said to
me, I've said it probably many times,
how everything we do, we, we, it's
not win or fail, it's win or learn.
Right.
And so many times you hear, I think
that word failures, it's just, it's
just has such a negative connotation,
obviously, but, you know, people
are like fail fast, fail fast.
I'm like, learn fast, go test fast.
That's what you're really doing.
You're really, you're performing other
tests to see, figure out what would
be successful and what would not be.
And even with our show here, right.
With the multi threaded income podcast,
we're, we're learning some new things.
We're doing we're literally right now.
Like we're on squad cast, right?
First time using this all together,
using Descript to as a tool to,
uh, chop together videos and create
YouTube shorts using YouTube.
Brand new first time I've ever done
YouTube shorts, we're doing a lot of this
stuff ourselves, which we'll get probably
into some DIY stuff later on here and talk
a little bit about that and bootstrapping
things, but it's all coming together.
It's all adding up to me personally and
project Sean, and as well as you all.
And your different overall
projects that you're working on
Chad Carter: I also liked the whole
concept of Project Mike, and
just the notion of thinking about
everything that you have learned,
all these skills that you've built
up, and seeing where you are today.
And not so much about the last
thing that you attempted, and
maybe it didn't go so well.
Whether we call it a failure or just
a learning experience, it obviously
didn't go, uh, that way we want.
And we just wrapped up a challenge, and,
and one of the days, uh, we were actually
talking about some mindset, uh, items.
And one of the tasks or items that
was in there was around, uh, this
concept of, you know, minding the gap.
And just the idea is, when you're
focused on where you want to be, and
how you're frustrated that you're
not there yet, um, you know, it
doesn't actually serve you well.
Instead, if you look back at all the
things that you've done, From where
you started out to where you are today,
that can actually build a momentum.
In fact, I actually created a,
just, uh, was thinking about that.
Obviously since the challenge, I
created a, um, a post now I'm just
going to read here just because it's,
it's, it's post on Twitter or X now.
So it's super short, which is, you
know, if you're working towards a long
term goal and it's taken longer than
expected, well, don't dwell on the gap.
of where you are and where you want to be.
Instead, think about where you started
out and how far you've come and then
use that momentum to close the gap.
Now, there's anything that's just
really a good mindset to be in is
figuring out, you know, how far you've
come and be happy with yourself.
You know, if everything
doesn't go away, go okay.
Every time you, you know, got out
the gate and you're trying to start
something new, that's all right.
As Sean was just saying,
we're building skill sets.
You're learning something.
And if you have a skill set,
You are marketable, right?
You can provide value to somebody
by building up your skill set.
And if you can provide value to somebody,
well, that's how you can get compensated.
So I think that's kind of my, my big
thing is if you, if you can provide value
to somebody, you can get compensated.
And the way you provide value is
by building up your skill set.
Sean Merron: and Chad, also during
that conversation, our challenge
about the mindset you had brought
up a, uh, the concept, they were
actually, I thought about it as I
was listening to Buck B talk, you
mentioned a little bit earlier about
how humble, uh, Buck B is Kevin, right?
And it's almost like the, I forget, I
forget which point it was, Chad, you may
recall it here as I'm talking, but we're.
You, there's little wins, you get kind
of like, uh, minimizing those, you
know, like not realizing like the, the
awesome thing you did, I kept finding
Kevin constantly like, hold on, you just,
you just, uh, just glaze past something
like really awesome that a lot of people
would be pretty stoked about, you know?
And I know sometimes I might do that
where I'm like, Oh, it wasn't really
that much I made on that project.
Uh, or I, I, I'm even guilty of that
where maybe I should be a little more
grateful and like kind of celebrate
a little bit more of some of the.
Some of the wins, even if it's
anything more than zero, right.
Where I was able to get someone,
some stranger stranger money.
You mentioned many times, Kevin, in
the past that was able to buy something
that I did and really compensate
me for a skill that I have and
produce something for them, a value
Chad Carter: one of the concepts
that you were asked about there
in the challenge, it was, it was
from the book, um, the big leap.
So I'd highly recommend that book
has by a gay Hendricks, but he just
talks about an upper limit problem.
And one of the, and he has
like four different barriers.
He talks about, you know, one of
those is the fact that we deflect, we
don't actually accept appreciation.
And it's something I struggle with a lot.
It's like, oh, you did a
really good job of that.
Yeah, well, I totally messed this
thing up and it, you know, and we
just deflect actually accepting.
You know, um, praise basically.
And so when you do that, it's like a
subconscious thing that you think that
what you've done, that you, what you
just accomplished, wasn't all that great.
And it doesn't actually serve you well.
So actually, uh, receiving the
compliment can be good again.
I'm working on this cause I'm not good at
it at all, but you receive the compliment,
you know, actually do accept it.
And then if there's something that
you're still thinking in your mind,
but, but man, this went bad and I
didn't do this right, and this thing
wasn't, wasn't good, and you're wanting
feedback on that, then that's fine.
You still accept the compliment, but
then turn around and say, okay, but
I would like to know this, you know,
when I said this, I didn't feel like
that came across well, again, I'm
not fishing for a compliment here.
I don't need this, but I
am looking for feedback.
What do you think about this?
And, and that'll actually give
that person the opportunity
to give you valid feedback.
Especially if they just told you
you did a good job, and if there's
something you can improve on, you'll
typically learn something from that.
So, yeah, that's something I've
been personally working on a lot, is
just kind of shutting off somebody's
compliment instead of accepting it.
And actually, because that will build
up momentum to continue to move forward
and not think about all these failures,
quote unquote, that, you know, we've had.
But actually, uh, building
towards successes, building up
our toolbox, our skill set, you
know, our project of our name.
If you will project Mike.
Kevin Griffin: One of the other topics we
wanted to discuss was Buck B is all about
systems and he was talking about Venn
diagrams and how does he figure out what
type of business he wants to work on next?
And I think it's really
useful to take his.
His framework into account when picking
out what type of business you want
to do, because some businesses are
better students to make money than
others are so specifically like B to
B or I know we're throwing buzzwords
around, but it's business to business.
If I'm a business selling a service
to another business businesses.
Like spending money.
If it solves a problem,
they like to spend money.
B to C, which is business to
consumer or business to customer.
You are dealing with individual people.
And most individual people I know
are stingy as heck with their
money, or at least, you know, at
least for the stuff I'm selling.
If it's An ad hoc item in Walmart, they
might be willing to drop the money on it.
No problem, but it's harder
to sell directly to consumers
than it is to, to businesses.
And he also threw around some buzzwords
like DIY and DFY and Chad, I know that was
one of the items that you kind of went,
I want, I want to talk more about that.
So I'm going to give
you the opportunity now.
And you said there was some
stuff missing from, from Mike's
Chad Carter: he, he just simply had it
in, uh, a bit of conversation there.
It wasn't like he was trying
to go deep into, you know,
all these different concepts.
So basically you got three
different things, right?
You got, uh, DIY, do it yourself.
Then you got, uh, DWY done with
you, and then you got DFY, which
is done for you, and typically.
The done, you know, do it yourself
things are around products and one
during the challenge and all the stuff
is fresh in my head since we just ran a
challenge and one, I think on the very
first day we talked about all kinds
of different business types that you
had and personality types and, um, you
know, how you'd go about, you know,
kind of matching things up together
and the do it yourself approach It's a
lot with the products because the idea
is you're making a product and then
somebody's going to buy that product
and go do something with that product.
They're doing it themselves versus
most services Um or more of a done
for you approach dfy, which is hey.
Oh, you need an e commerce system Well,
let me go and actually spin up an e
commerce system Whether i'm building
myself my own set you up on spot shopify
set up a wordpress Google commerce like
whatever the case is i'm going to go
and do this thing for you So at the
end result you just give me money and
then you have an e commerce site It's
done for you, and then you can have,
uh, other things that are more like
in the middle is a done with you and
the done with you, um, could be like a
coaching program, for example, which is.
You want help trading something or
creating some milestone in your
life or doing whatever the case is.
And I'm going to come along beside you
and actually coach you through that.
So I'm actually doing this
with you to begin with, showing
you the skillsets you need.
And then ultimately you're going
to do it yourself, but it's a, it's
more of like a transitional period.
So it's not all just done for you.
Hey, and I was listening to.
Alex Ramosi over the weekend, um, uh, a
popular guy, super successful, lots of
businesses, and he's with acquisition.
com.
He actually acquires a lot
of businesses and things.
What Alex was saying in
this, uh, commentary I was
listening to was the fact of.
You know, when he, when he buys these
companies, he does these acquisitions,
um, he actually will bring in agencies
and while he's doing everything, he'll
actually say, okay, I need this agency.
I'm going to pay this agency.
Uh, certain amount of money, not just
to do it for me, but to actually teach
me what it is that they're doing.
So maybe it's a editing.
So let's say we want to bring
in somebody to edit our videos.
Then if you instead of just getting
an agency to, I want you to hire you
from here till the end of time to
edit our videos, it's, I want to build
the skillset of editing the video.
So I'm going to hire this agency
that does the editing for us.
And but during the process, I'm not going
to pay them more, but it's a six months in
the game to teach me everything they know.
Or for example, what if you were trying
to start your own development agency
and you had a project, you know, so
Sean, I know you're actually working
on a project right now and you have
them bringing in, you know, some
contractors to help you with this.
So an approach that could have
been taken is actually hire a
development agency to do it, but
pay them a little bit more with.
I want to understand your processes.
How do you go about hiring people?
How do you go about building up your
own stuff so that I can turn around
and do the same thing and build my
own development agency, basically.
Or if I didn't want to build my own
development agency, bring in developers
and train them in such a way that they can
be I would say profitable, but more like
productive is the word I was looking for.
So they'd be extremely productive
as soon as they get into the
door hitting the ground running.
So it's all about, uh, leveraging
somebody else's talents up front.
So it's almost like a done for you,
but by the time it's all done, sit and
done, you'll do it yourself because
it really wasn't a done for you.
It was a done with you.
Sean Merron: That's neat.
I hadn't even heard of
those other terms before.
I haven't heard of df, uh,
DFY or D four UDD with you.
DWI I've only heard of do it
yourself, so that was new to me.
Interesting to hear about those.
And yeah, it kind of scares
me with the work that I'm
subcontracting out right now.
The, the one thing that keeps
me up at night with that is
the whole, when it's done.
If something needs to get updated
after the fact, who's going to do
it, how's it going to get done?
I'm going to have to go find someone else.
What if this person is not around anymore?
What if something happens to them?
They're not available because of
another contract they're working on.
So, yeah, that's one, one way to
either learn it myself or another way
is to make sure they're building some
architectural diagrams and document
documentation along with that.
Getting access to the source control as
much as I can to try and alleviate that
risk a little bit to make it easier.
But, but Buckby, it was interesting.
I've heard this twice now.
We've heard this.
We have heard this really twice
now from two really successful
entrepreneurs out there with
Buckby and also, uh, Brett Fisher.
The next concept of this Venn diagram.
They both use that term and I think
they then both kind of transition is
saying the word framework as well.
When they go into assessing new
business ideas or new projects and such.
And so it's cool to see how they, they
each have like kind of figured out
over time, the things that are really
important to learning about what would
be a successful project or engagement.
So the one that stood out to me the
most was the whole B2C versus B2B and
how both of them, uh, been a little
more successful in the B2B realm, at
least initially I know it's consulting.
I know they've done some
stuff with Docker and Heroku.
And it's kind of like, okay, maybe
some independent developers are
doing some of that stuff as well.
But I also know there's a lot of big
businesses that are really doing a lot
of work and maybe where those engineers
work for that are probably benefiting
from a lot of material that they're both
producing and I see this a lot and just.
The, the industry I'm in as well, uh,
currently I do a lot in the auto industry
and it's a lot with other dealerships,
um, or OEM manufacturers, these big,
large enterprises that have had success
with consumers directly are now needing
to streamline their processes, automate.
So we have an opportunity as engineers,
obviously not only be hired directly
as employees, B2B fashion, and it's,
it's neat how Buck B realized like.
The more, more successful I'll
probably be is going to be somewhat
tied in the relation of how close
it is to a B2B versus a B2C, right?
And something for everybody, everybody
really to be mindful and listening.
I've tried a lot of B2C products,
um, and have not been as successful.
Uh, content creation.
We're doing that here.
We're trying to teach engineers, right?
Things about starting their own business.
It's difficult.
Like there's so many people
paying a lot of money.
To get into your ears and get in
front of you with advertisements.
And for one of us or anyone
listening that right now, that
much might just be independent.
It's going to, it's very difficult to
get in front of that consumer directly
with all that competition you have.
And it also kind of makes me realize
the, the, I guess, low amount, low volume
of things that people actually buy.
You mentioned earlier, Kevin, like
how stringent someone might be with
their money, with their finances.
I mean, yes, engineers, but
we're guilty of it as well.
You know, I have to be really
mindful of the things I buy.
I don't probably buy a lot of things
for myself, to be honest, outside
of the things I need, um, with
my, you know, house car, and maybe
there's a few little things I buy.
So really the opportunities for
B2C, you know, the, the large
enterprise companies, right.
I've taken and scooped up a lot of those.
And now it's kind of like, we're kind of
getting that secondhand trying to get an,
our own cut of that right through some
of this B2B stuff we're trying to do.
And you could be more successful
in getting, getting a client
or a project that way.
And then maybe from there you can start to
find ways then to merge from B2B into B2C
or start to tap into a little bit of that
revenue that's in that similar industry
or only in one degree of separation.
Kevin Griffin: I think a really
good analogy to this conversation
is when I was much younger.
So let's say college and I really needed
an imaging Our image editing program
and Photoshop was what everyone used.
And I was in college and I was
like, I can't afford Photoshop.
And I might have gotten my hand on
Photoshop in non moral ways, but.
I remember trying to look for alternatives
to Photoshop that would solve my problem.
And in a lot of cases they did,
but the tools available were
not as polished as Photoshop.
So it took me more time to,
to accomplish the result.
Whereas I could have just paid for
Photoshop and have the job done for me.
So I went the free route, took longer.
And it was more painful.
And as I got into my first professional
gigs, it was still kind of the same way.
I'm like, well, if the business
provides it to me, awesome.
If not, I'll still try to use
these free open source approaches.
And then when I started my business
and I had regular money came in and I.
I actually don't remember when it
was, but it was very long time ago.
I went, I'm just gonna pay for Photoshop
and I'm just gonna pay for Premiere.
I'm gonna pay for the tools that I
know do the job very well, very easily.
They have the good experiences, and now
the fees I pay for those tools are drops
in the bucket compared to, I guess,
the amount of time I would have spent
trying to use the free open source tools.
So I know someone out there is going
to say, well, the free open source
tools have gotten so much better and
you're right, but they're still not
nearly as good as the Adobe products.
And I don't, we're not here to talk
about that, but there's just kind of an
analogy is when I moved from a consumer
mindset to a business mindset, it was
much easier for me to spend money on
the things that solved my problems.
And I say this as my Adobe renewals
coming up and I got the email and went
and they're raising the price again.
My first thought was, well,
do I really need these tools?
But the handful of times throughout
the year where I use the tools and
they do exactly what I need them
to do, they pay for themselves.
So I think that's a good analogy for the
mindset and of consumers, the businesses.
Well, gentlemen, it's been fun
chatting about Mike's interview.
I think there were a lot of
good tidbits and we, we should.
Like transition the show just
to talk about each individual
thing for half an hour.
So one episode creates 10
hours worth of content.
We're not going to do that yet, but it's a
good idea, but thank you guys for hanging
out with me and thanks everyone for
listening and we'll see you all next time.