WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.820 Matt: Brian Kortz, welcome back to the WP Minute. 00:00:02.530 --> 00:00:03.430 Brian: Thank you for having me. 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:07.290 Matt: It's going to be the longest or shortest video we've ever recorded. 00:00:07.540 --> 00:00:08.079 Podcast. 00:00:09.970 --> 00:00:13.140 Brian: Hopefully shortest because it's a, it's a busy day. 00:00:13.170 --> 00:00:18.400 I'm being punished for taking Monday off by just constant scheduled meetings. 00:00:18.570 --> 00:00:19.640 I don't know if that happens to you. 00:00:20.319 --> 00:00:24.119 Matt: I had pneumonia for a week, and uh, I can, like, today's the first day that I 00:00:24.119 --> 00:00:28.159 can, like, actually breathe a little bit better, so I've had to push all my content 00:00:28.159 --> 00:00:30.869 creation from last week to this week, so it's been, it's been pretty tight. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:32.370 Brian: Yeah. 00:00:32.430 --> 00:00:36.100 Well, you, you did miss a release, you know, a big WordPress release, 00:00:36.985 --> 00:00:38.945 Matt: I was watching our last video that you and I did. 00:00:39.015 --> 00:00:42.105 Uh, I'm already forgetting what the topic was. 00:00:43.050 --> 00:00:43.370 Brian: the tech. 00:00:44.375 --> 00:00:44.625 Matt: Oh yeah. 00:00:44.625 --> 00:00:46.085 The tech crunch one, the tech crunch one. 00:00:46.394 --> 00:00:49.815 And I, there was a, there was a visual discernible. 00:00:49.815 --> 00:00:52.244 Like when I said, Hey Brian, welcome back to the show. 00:00:52.875 --> 00:00:54.565 You look down and you're like, Oh, thanks for having me. 00:00:57.060 --> 00:01:02.040 I think you knew mentally we were about to get into, uh, with the content. 00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:03.100 Hopefully today's a little bit better. 00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:04.180 We're going to talk about 6. 00:01:04.199 --> 00:01:05.386 7, WordPress 6. 00:01:05.386 --> 00:01:06.089 7 was released. 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:09.170 Um, I started to play around with 2025 this morning. 00:01:09.260 --> 00:01:11.140 Well, I started playing with it when it was first announced. 00:01:12.005 --> 00:01:13.465 And started to play with the final version. 00:01:13.465 --> 00:01:14.665 I got some thoughts on that today. 00:01:14.935 --> 00:01:16.655 I haven't got a chance to get to block bindings. 00:01:16.725 --> 00:01:19.555 This episode that we're recording right now is going to be about 00:01:19.555 --> 00:01:23.654 a two week ish lag from when we record to when we publish. 00:01:23.654 --> 00:01:26.105 So things might change when you're listening to this right now. 00:01:26.135 --> 00:01:26.895 It doesn't mean we're wrong. 00:01:26.895 --> 00:01:29.655 It just, man, maybe things change, uh, over the course of that time. 00:01:29.665 --> 00:01:31.245 But, uh, we're going to share our thoughts on 6. 00:01:31.245 --> 00:01:31.665 7. 00:01:31.695 --> 00:01:33.815 Maybe we'll dive into a little bit of, uh, some AI stuff. 00:01:33.865 --> 00:01:37.515 I've been addicted coding with cursor 00:01:38.025 --> 00:01:38.405 Brian: Okay. 00:01:38.975 --> 00:01:40.045 Matt: Well, we can talk about it. 00:01:40.045 --> 00:01:40.404 We can talk 00:01:41.244 --> 00:01:42.094 uh, as we progress. 00:01:42.105 --> 00:01:43.335 So let's start with six, seven. 00:01:43.365 --> 00:01:48.335 Um, not a, I mean, it's a lot of people like saying they're excited, 00:01:48.345 --> 00:01:52.375 but I didn't see it as like a major release, but I say that a lot. 00:01:52.724 --> 00:01:57.135 I feel, and it's like the iterations of iPhones where I go, eh, not that big. 00:01:57.154 --> 00:02:01.044 But when you look back from, you know, three years ago, it is a big jump. 00:02:01.275 --> 00:02:03.354 It's just not big in that iterative jump. 00:02:03.645 --> 00:02:05.835 I see it as not a big, big deal. 00:02:05.844 --> 00:02:06.585 What do you think? 00:02:07.685 --> 00:02:11.825 Brian: Well, I think, yeah, I mean, I think there's not like a standout 00:02:11.985 --> 00:02:15.925 feature that you can get excited about that like font, like the font 00:02:17.095 --> 00:02:20.445 Google font installer was like a few releases ago that got people excited. 00:02:20.445 --> 00:02:23.470 Like when you have some kind of big, exciting, shiny thing. 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.010 You know, that's usually the thing there. 00:02:26.030 --> 00:02:31.530 I feel like this whole year and especially this one is a lot of like under the hood. 00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:36.020 Like these are going to lead to great things just in a few more releases. 00:02:36.260 --> 00:02:37.010 It's a lot of. 00:02:37.500 --> 00:02:42.850 APIs, a lot of under the hood stuff, a lot of like cleanup, a lot of, uh, 00:02:43.180 --> 00:02:48.410 getting all the blocks to kind of match, you know, and, and get all the 00:02:48.750 --> 00:02:51.390 little settings on, you know, all the design settings on all the blocks to 00:02:51.390 --> 00:02:52.800 kind of match each other and stuff. 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:56.820 So like nothing big and exciting, um, except for the default theme, I guess, you 00:02:56.820 --> 00:02:58.620 know, this is that default theme release. 00:02:58.630 --> 00:03:03.150 So, but yeah, I, not a lot to like dive into maybe. 00:03:04.154 --> 00:03:08.314 Matt: Now, I saw a demo video, which has been getting high praise, uh, produced, 00:03:08.625 --> 00:03:13.844 uh, I assume by, uh, Jamie Marsland in the back end and, uh, starring Richard Tabor, 00:03:14.184 --> 00:03:19.474 uh, who you and I shared a, uh, a few beverages with at WordCamp US, uh, I saw 00:03:19.475 --> 00:03:25.765 him actually like clicking and assigning a custom field into, uh, a blocker pattern. 00:03:25.945 --> 00:03:26.415 So that UI. 00:03:27.820 --> 00:03:31.369 Is there for, for the block bindings and the custom fields, or am I 00:03:31.390 --> 00:03:33.039 mixing up the technology terms here? 00:03:33.790 --> 00:03:35.190 Brian: Yeah, no, that's, that's it. 00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:40.400 So yeah, the block bindings is basically like, can I take a block 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:46.550 like a paragraph and can the content of that block come from somewhere else? 00:03:46.670 --> 00:03:51.170 So could I take a button, but the link in that button, could it pull from, 00:03:51.210 --> 00:03:54.440 you know, the permalink of the article or a custom field that I've added? 00:03:54.450 --> 00:03:55.210 So it's about. 00:03:55.825 --> 00:03:59.375 Like connecting other data into your blocks. 00:03:59.435 --> 00:04:01.415 And so that part is really exciting. 00:04:01.665 --> 00:04:05.355 And the, what they released this time is you can actually like see 00:04:05.355 --> 00:04:09.695 it in the sidebar and you can pick, okay, I want the URL of my button to 00:04:09.695 --> 00:04:11.805 pull from here and stuff like that. 00:04:12.095 --> 00:04:16.885 The only downside is you have to actually have custom fields to pull from. 00:04:17.175 --> 00:04:20.475 And that's not something you can do in WordPress without writing code. 00:04:20.485 --> 00:04:20.945 So. 00:04:21.350 --> 00:04:24.000 You can't go to playground as far as I can tell. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.570 I don't think you can go to playground and just try it because you kind 00:04:27.570 --> 00:04:29.120 of have to have custom fields. 00:04:29.130 --> 00:04:32.810 So it's, it's, it's, it's a feature that's going to get us somewhere. 00:04:33.020 --> 00:04:36.150 It's a feature that developers I think are going to be a little more excited about. 00:04:36.340 --> 00:04:40.220 It's probably not a feature that 90 percent of WordPress users 00:04:40.220 --> 00:04:41.810 are, are, are going to use. 00:04:42.455 --> 00:04:44.764 Matt: It's almost like you are watching my screen because that's exactly 00:04:44.764 --> 00:04:45.734 what I'm doing while you're talking. 00:04:45.794 --> 00:04:46.304 I booted up 00:04:46.540 --> 00:04:47.030 Brian: Do you try? 00:04:47.834 --> 00:04:50.265 Matt: which is my favorite place to, uh, if you don't know, dear 00:04:50.265 --> 00:04:51.744 listener or viewer, playground. 00:04:51.744 --> 00:04:52.465 wordpress. 00:04:52.494 --> 00:04:56.484 net, a great way to spin up WordPress, um, to play, uh, use 00:04:56.484 --> 00:04:57.125 it for free in your browser. 00:04:57.405 --> 00:04:58.615 Without installing it anywhere else. 00:04:58.975 --> 00:05:00.105 Uh, so yeah, I was trying to do that. 00:05:00.125 --> 00:05:00.655 Can't do it. 00:05:00.685 --> 00:05:01.465 Don't know how to do it. 00:05:01.465 --> 00:05:04.255 But like you said, you probably have to have some custom fields activated 00:05:04.255 --> 00:05:08.315 and installed and, um, you know, to, registered so that it actually pulls 00:05:08.315 --> 00:05:11.454 from, uh, otherwise I don't know how to, I don't know how to pull it up. 00:05:12.450 --> 00:05:12.920 Brian: Yeah. 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:19.040 And if you use ACF or SCF as it is also called, um, the advanced custom 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:22.650 fields plugin, it's not fully integrated with that yet because advanced custom 00:05:22.650 --> 00:05:27.490 fields are advanced and they're not really quite one to one with. 00:05:28.505 --> 00:05:34.025 So I think you'll see ACF probably is working on, you know, getting that. 00:05:34.025 --> 00:05:36.155 And I think that's where most people are familiar with 00:05:36.155 --> 00:05:37.525 registering their custom fields. 00:05:37.865 --> 00:05:42.345 Um, there is talk about in a few years, getting to a place where 00:05:42.345 --> 00:05:45.935 you can make custom post types and custom fields in WordPress core. 00:05:45.935 --> 00:05:46.855 So, I mean, I think. 00:05:47.210 --> 00:05:48.370 Like, so it's like foundational. 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:50.070 It's going to get somewhere. 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:51.660 Developers are going to get excited about it. 00:05:52.010 --> 00:05:55.100 But, um, I was even just talking to somebody, a contributor, and it was 00:05:55.100 --> 00:06:00.220 kind of like cool, but like not yet ready to be functionally used, but, 00:06:00.220 --> 00:06:01.500 uh, you know, you see potential. 00:06:02.489 --> 00:06:05.080 Matt: There is one feature that was added that I, I am really excited 00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:08.359 about, which I literally just learned about 30 minutes before we started 00:06:08.359 --> 00:06:11.650 recording, uh, from somebody I think you know, Jessica Lischick, Lischick? 00:06:11.650 --> 00:06:12.540 Is that how you say her last name? 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:17.570 she introduced a feature inside of the preferences window. 00:06:17.830 --> 00:06:18.229 Panel. 00:06:18.390 --> 00:06:22.409 So if you're in the site editor or WordPress editor or page post 00:06:22.409 --> 00:06:27.800 editor, and you go to preferences, uh, under the general screen, there's 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:31.479 a little toggle to show patterns. 00:06:31.509 --> 00:06:33.129 I can toggle that on or off. 00:06:33.139 --> 00:06:33.879 So every time you create a 00:06:34.095 --> 00:06:34.715 Brian: To 00:06:35.049 --> 00:06:36.989 Matt: things pops up and I'm like, just get it out of my 00:06:36.999 --> 00:06:38.359 way, man, I don't need it. 00:06:38.820 --> 00:06:44.650 Uh, we can now disable it and do it except for the fact, I learned today, uh, that 00:06:44.650 --> 00:06:48.310 20, today, I learned yesterday that 2025. 00:06:49.635 --> 00:06:52.925 need that turned on in order to slap the, uh, business 00:06:53.675 --> 00:06:56.895 template on, which, which blows my mind because it's a huge departure 00:06:57.305 --> 00:07:04.584 from 2024 where 20, 24 had that air quotes, business template loaded in 00:07:04.584 --> 00:07:07.894 templates, and you would, uh, assign it, uh, by creating a blank page 00:07:07.894 --> 00:07:10.474 and then selecting that template or just actually loaded by default. 00:07:10.474 --> 00:07:14.974 So when you pulled up a fresh install of WordPress, ah, there's my homepage. 00:07:15.295 --> 00:07:20.624 It's It's a placeholder content, might not be what I exactly want, 00:07:20.815 --> 00:07:24.164 but at least as the end user, you knew this is a starting point. 00:07:24.215 --> 00:07:25.584 This is where you can go with this thing. 00:07:25.875 --> 00:07:29.724 Um, but that's gone in 2025, which was weird for me. 00:07:30.765 --> 00:07:37.375 Brian: it's a weird philosophical choice this time that 2025 loads so blank. 00:07:37.515 --> 00:07:42.665 Um, it's, it, it reminds me of 2023, which was the really stark black and 00:07:42.665 --> 00:07:45.145 white one with like the neon green button. 00:07:45.475 --> 00:07:49.215 But this one is even less placeholder content. 00:07:49.705 --> 00:07:52.545 And I guess in a sense, that's maybe useful in certain 00:07:52.545 --> 00:07:54.595 situations, but I loved 2024. 00:07:54.595 --> 00:07:57.095 I felt like all that placeholder content really. 00:07:57.415 --> 00:08:01.055 Made you feel optimistic that you could build something 00:08:01.055 --> 00:08:02.715 really cool for your homepage. 00:08:03.045 --> 00:08:06.915 And now we're back to WordPress as a blog and here's your single 00:08:06.925 --> 00:08:09.385 posts with the picture of a boat or whatever it's going to be. 00:08:09.695 --> 00:08:11.725 And it's not, it's, I don't know. 00:08:11.725 --> 00:08:13.745 It's not, it's not as exciting. 00:08:14.155 --> 00:08:14.895 I don't know why. 00:08:15.485 --> 00:08:19.204 Matt: I was chatting about this with, uh, Frank Klein on Twitter. 00:08:19.234 --> 00:08:20.144 Do people still use Twitter? 00:08:20.445 --> 00:08:24.950 Uh, and Mike McAllister jumped in and he said, debatably, 2024 is little trick of 00:08:24.950 --> 00:08:28.630 putting the homepage design on the blog homepage template broke a longstanding 00:08:28.919 --> 00:08:31.430 quote, no content in templates guideline. 00:08:31.830 --> 00:08:33.530 It's a bandaid for a much bigger issue. 00:08:33.539 --> 00:08:36.649 I'm not against it per se, but it sets a bad example for many 00:08:36.649 --> 00:08:39.299 folks, uh, who now do this. 00:08:39.719 --> 00:08:44.149 Um, Frank also came back and mentioned, uh, it could be easy as WordPress 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:47.980 a homepage dot HTML template. 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:52.190 So front page covers, both cases home covers, the blog homepage covers. 00:08:53.025 --> 00:08:56.075 The page on front, uh, up for changing the name, but the, 00:08:56.085 --> 00:08:57.185 the idea makes a lot of sense. 00:08:57.555 --> 00:08:57.765 Yeah. 00:08:57.765 --> 00:09:00.045 It's from the end user experience. 00:09:00.085 --> 00:09:05.254 I think, um, the, just the hello world single blog post has always been something 00:09:05.255 --> 00:09:12.105 that has stumped end users since I was making themes back in 2007, they 00:09:12.105 --> 00:09:13.415 were just like, what the heck is this? 00:09:13.415 --> 00:09:14.645 Where's the homepage? 00:09:15.965 --> 00:09:19.355 Brian: It's a, there are perennial issues that WordPress 00:09:19.375 --> 00:09:20.665 people like to complain about. 00:09:20.695 --> 00:09:26.045 Onboarding is one of them and defaulting to posts over pages is one of them. 00:09:26.055 --> 00:09:30.695 And, uh, you know, it, this one kind of falls back on it, but to go back to what 00:09:30.715 --> 00:09:34.725 you were saying about the, the pop up where you get to pick your page pattern. 00:09:34.745 --> 00:09:38.435 Um, When you start a new page and it shows you here's some default 00:09:38.445 --> 00:09:44.555 patterns, that feature, when it came out, went from everyone loved it to 00:09:44.655 --> 00:09:48.595 living with it for about 48 hours and everybody suddenly hated it. 00:09:48.625 --> 00:09:49.345 It was like. 00:09:49.665 --> 00:09:50.545 So cool. 00:09:50.565 --> 00:09:51.845 I can't believe this is great. 00:09:52.095 --> 00:09:55.925 Immediately just could not get rid of it fast enough. 00:09:56.295 --> 00:10:00.915 Um, so I feel like they need to take the extra step and make you opt into 00:10:01.175 --> 00:10:05.305 turning it on or make theme developers have to turn it on or something because, 00:10:05.305 --> 00:10:08.205 uh, because that one isn't as good. 00:10:08.275 --> 00:10:10.975 Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's a weird workflow. 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:13.210 Matt: Here's what I don't understand. 00:10:13.765 --> 00:10:19.205 Um, and maybe it's just because a weird thing. 00:10:19.205 --> 00:10:20.565 I haven't noticed yet in WordPress. 00:10:20.585 --> 00:10:22.165 I'm actively searching for it right now. 00:10:23.385 --> 00:10:25.365 First of all, what, what do we call those? 00:10:25.555 --> 00:10:30.335 Do we call those templates or are they patterned templates? 00:10:31.285 --> 00:10:32.555 Brian: They're technically patterns. 00:10:32.595 --> 00:10:34.655 They're patterns where you can. 00:10:34.935 --> 00:10:39.555 There's a thing you can put in your pattern file if you save your patterns 00:10:39.555 --> 00:10:44.005 as like PHP files that says, you know, show in this for this post type. 00:10:45.865 --> 00:10:46.135 Matt: Okay. 00:10:46.135 --> 00:10:50.685 So there's that, but they're not accessible anywhere else, but in that 00:10:50.685 --> 00:10:53.795 modal, like I can't see those designs. 00:10:53.795 --> 00:10:55.995 Like I can't go into the site editor, which you would assume 00:10:55.995 --> 00:10:58.185 you would do, because that's what I did when I first installed it. 00:10:58.505 --> 00:11:02.465 I've been, I've been watching the design development of 2025 through the Figma. 00:11:04.010 --> 00:11:06.550 Link project that, you know, they actively develop on. 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:08.150 I've been watching those things are pretty cool. 00:11:08.150 --> 00:11:08.620 These are nice. 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:09.950 of these things are nice. 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:14.300 So I was just in my brain going, okay, I'm going to make my 2025 video. 00:11:14.479 --> 00:11:15.400 I'm going to pull up the templates. 00:11:15.570 --> 00:11:16.399 templates. 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:17.050 I'm going to apply this time. 00:11:17.050 --> 00:11:17.950 I would teach people how to use it. 00:11:18.430 --> 00:11:21.400 Uh, then it didn't exist in the traditional templates. 00:11:23.030 --> 00:11:24.710 Direct view directory. 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:25.820 I don't even know what called the screen. 00:11:26.180 --> 00:11:27.850 Uh, but now you can't even get to them. 00:11:27.850 --> 00:11:29.440 It's not like they're compiled anywhere to go. 00:11:29.470 --> 00:11:30.300 Oh, I want that. 00:11:30.785 --> 00:11:32.265 Let me click it and add it to my page. 00:11:32.285 --> 00:11:37.705 It has to come from that modal, uh, where feature themes to contrast. 00:11:37.705 --> 00:11:39.585 This is like a cadence. 00:11:39.855 --> 00:11:44.064 If I click on the cadence library, I can see all those patterns and I can 00:11:44.065 --> 00:11:45.085 click on, yeah, this is the pattern. 00:11:45.195 --> 00:11:46.304 This is the collection I want. 00:11:46.305 --> 00:11:46.575 Boom. 00:11:46.615 --> 00:11:47.645 Insert it into the page. 00:11:48.384 --> 00:11:49.885 There's no other way to activate this. 00:11:49.895 --> 00:11:50.565 If you. 00:11:51.350 --> 00:11:53.270 you're not loading the page for the first time, 00:11:53.870 --> 00:11:55.200 Brian: No, no, you can find them. 00:11:55.210 --> 00:12:01.500 So if you're on a page, you go to add, like, you're going to add a block and 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:05.490 then you jump over to the patterns tab where you can see all the patterns 00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:09.480 and it shows the, you'll get that nice zoom out view activated, which we can 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.040 talk about then under there, there's something called, there's all the 00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:14.220 categories and there is one called pages. 00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:17.390 And I see some of them in there. 00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:21.880 I see a business homepage, a coming soon page. 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:23.030 So 00:12:23.750 --> 00:12:24.040 Matt: got 00:12:24.190 --> 00:12:25.730 Brian: they're, they're in there 00:12:26.140 --> 00:12:26.460 Matt: yes. 00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:27.040 It's pages. 00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:29.050 I was, as I did not see that. 00:12:29.089 --> 00:12:29.669 Um, 00:12:29.930 --> 00:12:31.690 Brian: because they're, they're basically, they're not, 00:12:32.630 --> 00:12:34.250 they're not technically templates. 00:12:34.460 --> 00:12:38.250 They're starter patterns, like they're patterns to start you off on a page, 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:40.405 but they're not templates like. 00:12:41.350 --> 00:12:41.840 Matt: Got it. 00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:42.619 Yeah. 00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:43.730 So that makes sense. 00:12:43.750 --> 00:12:47.919 Um, design wise, this is what I said in my video and I'll link up. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.480 Uh, my video on YouTube that I did earlier today. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.800 It's a nice theme, I, I have no problems with it. 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.940 It's not particularly a starting point, I think, for most businesses. 00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:05.160 is subjective, of course. 00:13:06.139 --> 00:13:14.395 but I see this design and I think photography, Art, you know, digital media. 00:13:14.425 --> 00:13:17.455 If you're doing like video and like production and stuff like that, like 00:13:17.465 --> 00:13:20.815 that's where I say, or just blog, like you just want a nice clean looking blog. 00:13:20.845 --> 00:13:26.174 I think it's good for that, but like, if I'm going to stamp this as a, kind 00:13:26.174 --> 00:13:31.395 of WordPress theme is this I'm going photography, art, digital media. 00:13:31.435 --> 00:13:32.545 That's how I see this. 00:13:32.575 --> 00:13:32.905 What's your 00:13:32.995 --> 00:13:36.365 Brian: I would say like a magazine is like, it's like a magazine theme. 00:13:36.375 --> 00:13:40.685 Like it looks like a fashion or art blog or something like that. 00:13:40.735 --> 00:13:46.545 It's so it's a little more opinionated in that sense, you know, than 2023, 00:13:46.555 --> 00:13:50.615 which really did feel like, I don't know, just generic in a good way. 00:13:50.615 --> 00:13:53.725 Like generic in a, it could be a small business site. 00:13:53.725 --> 00:13:54.715 It could be something like that. 00:13:55.265 --> 00:13:58.960 Um, The other thing I was actually thinking, I just talked to, I think you 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.500 mentioned Mike Kallister who has Holly WP. 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:05.260 I don't know if you've used his, but his theme is protein. 00:14:05.260 --> 00:14:09.980 Like has a way where when you're in a page, you go like, you're going 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:14.270 to add a block, but you can actually add his pattern library and it opens 00:14:14.270 --> 00:14:16.275 this pattern library and it's like. 00:14:16.495 --> 00:14:18.495 Categorized and very visual. 00:14:18.495 --> 00:14:20.575 And you can see everything at different screen sizes. 00:14:20.575 --> 00:14:22.995 And it's, you know, do you want a full page? 00:14:22.995 --> 00:14:23.645 Do you want all this stuff? 00:14:23.645 --> 00:14:28.525 And it's, I really hope that one day they'll look at what is happening in 00:14:28.525 --> 00:14:30.415 places like that and see, Oh, wow. 00:14:30.445 --> 00:14:34.125 Patterns are maybe need a little more attention. 00:14:34.135 --> 00:14:37.555 Like people really more easier way to get to these patterns, to see 00:14:37.555 --> 00:14:39.115 patterns, to see full page patterns. 00:14:39.115 --> 00:14:41.485 Cause yeah, a lot of this stuff, it's like, it's there, but 00:14:41.485 --> 00:14:42.825 it's kind of, kind of hidden. 00:14:43.055 --> 00:14:44.175 It's kind of hard to find. 00:14:44.710 --> 00:14:45.010 Matt: yeah. 00:14:45.950 --> 00:14:46.420 Yeah, I agree. 00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:48.680 Um, I've haven't used all in a while. 00:14:48.680 --> 00:14:51.090 I obviously looked at it when it first came out. 00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:56.920 Um, though I do, I do if I ever have time want to redo the WP minute. 00:14:57.260 --> 00:15:03.890 Um, Just for the sake of just trying something new really, uh, is nothing 00:15:03.890 --> 00:15:05.270 really wrong with my cadence theme. 00:15:05.270 --> 00:15:08.280 It's not the best looking thing, but I'm not a designer, nor do I have time. 00:15:08.660 --> 00:15:13.839 And all he is on the top of my list, um, to maybe check out, uh, that, and I 00:15:13.839 --> 00:15:19.240 know generate press it's coming out with some of their new, um, functionality. 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.589 Uh, I don't know about their themes, uh, but, uh, yeah, all he would definitely 00:15:23.589 --> 00:15:24.980 be on the top of my charts for. 00:15:25.735 --> 00:15:26.635 A big media site. 00:15:26.835 --> 00:15:27.545 Here's the issue. 00:15:27.625 --> 00:15:29.204 This is not against you, but you mentioned it. 00:15:30.445 --> 00:15:32.375 Uh, Magazine theme. 00:15:32.415 --> 00:15:33.125 And, and I actually 00:15:33.135 --> 00:15:33.325 Brian: Yes. 00:15:33.465 --> 00:15:36.761 So, uh, Yeah. 00:15:36.761 --> 00:15:37.859 Yeah. 00:15:37.859 --> 00:15:38.958 Yeah. 00:15:38.958 --> 00:15:40.056 Yeah. 00:15:40.056 --> 00:15:41.155 Yeah. 00:15:41.155 --> 00:15:42.254 Yeah. 00:15:42.254 --> 00:15:45.549 Um, All right. 00:15:45.549 --> 00:15:47.746 Um, Okay. 00:15:47.746 --> 00:15:52.141 Let's take a break. 00:15:52.141 --> 00:15:53.239 Okay. 00:15:53.239 --> 00:15:54.338 Yeah. 00:15:54.338 --> 00:15:55.436 Yeah. 00:15:55.436 --> 00:15:56.535 Uh, 00:15:56.595 --> 00:15:57.765 Matt: sponsorship packages. 00:15:57.765 --> 00:16:03.615 I have memberships that people can sign up for, uh, maybe get into courses in 2025. 00:16:04.075 --> 00:16:11.124 Um, like, I require a lot from my theme, which is largely why I'm just like, it's 00:16:11.124 --> 00:16:12.764 hamstrung and I don't do anything with it. 00:16:13.105 --> 00:16:17.785 Uh, but like a media site, a magazine site, it's always just one thing. 00:16:17.785 --> 00:16:19.095 It's like, here's the homepage. 00:16:19.095 --> 00:16:22.085 This homepage looks like a magazine, therefore it's a magazine theme. 00:16:22.285 --> 00:16:24.075 But I think the business of. 00:16:24.855 --> 00:16:31.155 magazine or a digital thing requires so much more, designed and styled 00:16:31.395 --> 00:16:32.685 for somebody like me to use it. 00:16:32.685 --> 00:16:33.745 And I would pay. 00:16:34.920 --> 00:16:37.240 400 for a theme, 00:16:39.330 --> 00:16:44.490 10, whatever that is, 10, eight times what the average single site license costs, 00:16:44.920 --> 00:16:52.020 um, to, to have a complete theme with all the business things I need probably pipe 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.235 dream, but, um, From a media perspective, I think, and maybe everyone, like, I 00:16:56.245 --> 00:16:58.115 think everyone needs a newsletter page. 00:16:58.245 --> 00:17:00.795 I think anyone who's doing anything online, trying to make a difference, 00:17:01.085 --> 00:17:04.225 uh, and get their brand out there, they're going to have YouTube channel, 00:17:04.415 --> 00:17:07.515 they're going to have all this stuff and it's going to go beyond these 00:17:07.515 --> 00:17:12.034 theme companies need to go beyond like designing that homepage and 00:17:12.034 --> 00:17:15.455 say, that's the, that's what makes this, that's what defines this theme. 00:17:15.535 --> 00:17:17.615 Like, I think we're going to need more in the future, 00:17:18.335 --> 00:17:21.285 Brian: Yeah, it's funny because that's what I was just talking about with Mike, 00:17:21.285 --> 00:17:25.295 which is this idea that patterns really are going to be like the new currency 00:17:25.335 --> 00:17:30.480 of WordPress sites and WordPress themes because, um, You know, even if you go 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.900 off and pay for something, like you said, there's so many things you like. 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:33.980 I need a pricing table. 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.090 I need a, uh, landing page. 00:17:36.090 --> 00:17:38.170 I need a splash page for a coming soon section. 00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:39.130 I need a newsletter signup. 00:17:39.130 --> 00:17:40.010 I need all these. 00:17:40.395 --> 00:17:40.995 Different things. 00:17:40.995 --> 00:17:42.275 I need to compare services. 00:17:42.275 --> 00:17:44.305 I need checklists and feature comparisons. 00:17:44.315 --> 00:17:49.295 Like there's a lot of really common things that people put on websites. 00:17:49.345 --> 00:17:54.435 And this one is very much, you know, a magazine theme is very much for. 00:17:54.795 --> 00:17:57.265 Publishing content, but not for. 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:02.860 Business e commerce selling things and, uh, you know, and especially if, if we're 00:18:02.860 --> 00:18:09.900 going to lean into block themes, uh, there needs to be, yeah, just maybe a better 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:13.200 approach to getting some of these in there because you can take patterns from other 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:15.340 themes and stuff, but it's not super easy. 00:18:15.340 --> 00:18:19.595 So maybe, you know, what if instead of another core theme, they just Released 00:18:19.595 --> 00:18:24.505 a whole set of business patterns, 2025 business pattern pack or something. 00:18:24.825 --> 00:18:27.405 It's a plugin and it comes installed and you can turn it off if you don't want 00:18:27.405 --> 00:18:28.635 the patterns or something like that. 00:18:28.635 --> 00:18:32.805 You know, things they could do without redesigning re theming, 00:18:32.845 --> 00:18:36.125 just give me the patterns and the way WordPress works now, they'll, 00:18:36.165 --> 00:18:37.485 they'll fit into my theme pretty well. 00:18:37.515 --> 00:18:38.545 Like they'll look pretty good. 00:18:38.905 --> 00:18:40.065 I don't actually need a whole new theme. 00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:45.460 Matt: You know, it brings up the, um, that age old debate of like, 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:48.410 do we need a new theme every year? 00:18:48.449 --> 00:18:50.950 Uh, that was on my mind with 2025. 00:18:51.569 --> 00:18:52.239 had a couple of comments. 00:18:52.239 --> 00:18:55.509 I think maybe you and I talked about this on another live stream or a podcast. 00:18:56.149 --> 00:18:58.570 had a couple of questions come in on YouTube and folks were like, Oh, do 00:18:58.570 --> 00:19:02.250 I need to upgrade from 2024 to 2025? 00:19:02.915 --> 00:19:05.215 Uh, and I think you and I chatted a little bit about it in a DM. 00:19:05.215 --> 00:19:07.695 I know that and then I started to test it myself and my God, 00:19:07.695 --> 00:19:09.505 it's, it's just not even possible. 00:19:09.705 --> 00:19:09.975 Right. 00:19:09.975 --> 00:19:15.195 So like, you know, in my, from the end user perspective, I hear things like, 00:19:15.434 --> 00:19:20.255 Oh, you can just copy paste patterns from one WordPress site to the next. 00:19:20.664 --> 00:19:23.544 Um, but sorely, like it just does not work. 00:19:23.815 --> 00:19:25.835 Work that seamlessly. 00:19:25.875 --> 00:19:29.705 I ran a couple of demos, uh, locally to just see what would happen if I 00:19:29.725 --> 00:19:35.185 upgraded from 2024 to 2025 or copy pasted patterns content from my 20. 00:19:35.185 --> 00:19:36.375 It's just, it's not even happening. 00:19:36.475 --> 00:19:37.025 It's not happening. 00:19:37.025 --> 00:19:37.714 Don't even try it. 00:19:37.925 --> 00:19:40.595 Uh, you know, at the end of the day, and I wonder. 00:19:40.845 --> 00:19:45.785 How many people actually think about that when they see like the layman 00:19:45.785 --> 00:19:49.465 person who's using WordPress looks at the new update and they go, Oh, it's 2025. 00:19:49.525 --> 00:19:52.234 Like, do they have to upgrade in the back of their head? 00:19:52.234 --> 00:19:53.314 Are they thinking they have to upgrade? 00:19:53.314 --> 00:19:55.965 And if they do, are they just like blowing their site up? 00:19:56.335 --> 00:20:00.135 Um, because of that, I, you know, I don't have the answer, but it's 00:20:00.135 --> 00:20:02.805 just something I think about when I see these new themes roll out. 00:20:03.865 --> 00:20:04.085 Brian: Yeah. 00:20:04.085 --> 00:20:07.785 And if there's like a push to be more, they call it composable, where your 00:20:07.785 --> 00:20:11.445 fonts are here, your colors are here, your patterns are here, your templates 00:20:11.445 --> 00:20:13.645 are here, and you can mix and match. 00:20:13.645 --> 00:20:14.495 Like we're not there yet. 00:20:14.495 --> 00:20:19.415 You should never change your theme unless you are ready for like a weekend of work. 00:20:19.415 --> 00:20:21.385 Like it's not a simple task. 00:20:21.515 --> 00:20:24.935 Um, but yeah, that's why I think like. 00:20:25.215 --> 00:20:28.515 I don't know that we need, I'm, I'm on the team, like no more default themes 00:20:28.785 --> 00:20:32.245 or figure out a way to break these things apart a little bit more so 00:20:32.245 --> 00:20:36.625 that I can get, I almost don't really need a new design, but I would love 00:20:36.735 --> 00:20:40.745 new types of content, new, different things like that to, to bring it in, 00:20:40.745 --> 00:20:44.445 but no, don't definitely don't change your theme unless you, uh, want to lose 00:20:44.445 --> 00:20:48.045 everything, but you can, um, go to a. 00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:52.950 2024 site and copy paste patterns, or you can go to the pattern browser. 00:20:52.950 --> 00:20:55.510 You can, you can kind of move stuff around, but you're not, 00:20:55.620 --> 00:20:58.500 you're not going to get all the same bells and whistles and stuff. 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:00.450 So it doesn't, it's not a perfect process. 00:21:00.540 --> 00:21:01.120 That's what I'll say. 00:21:02.015 --> 00:21:05.235 Matt: Yeah, uh, I'm looking at the Figma file. 00:21:05.235 --> 00:21:08.105 I'm just going to slow down just for a second because I think we might be 00:21:08.105 --> 00:21:12.725 dipping in and out of, uh, internet connection in this descript rooms beta. 00:21:12.725 --> 00:21:15.605 So I'll just give it a second here to, uh, catch up. 00:21:16.135 --> 00:21:22.825 Um, I'm looking at the Figma project for 2025 and I'm seeing 00:21:22.825 --> 00:21:27.754 these and this is what really got me, uh, Thinking about liking 2025. 00:21:27.765 --> 00:21:29.765 So I know if you're just listening, you can't see this. 00:21:29.765 --> 00:21:33.985 I'm not sharing it on video either, but, um, there's a complex news blog 00:21:34.245 --> 00:21:37.524 template section in the 2025 Figma file. 00:21:37.524 --> 00:21:38.125 It was awesome. 00:21:38.125 --> 00:21:43.970 Like this layout is what I was thinking for, Like perfect for 00:21:43.970 --> 00:21:45.630 a layout for the WP minute. 00:21:45.630 --> 00:21:51.640 Like I was like, okay, I could, I could get behind this kind of layout, but I 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.950 don't see this blog layout anywhere. 00:21:55.849 --> 00:21:59.790 Um, not in that pages pattern and certainly not in templates. 00:22:00.169 --> 00:22:03.209 So I'm just curious if they maybe left some of these behind there's 00:22:03.210 --> 00:22:07.440 a label, uh, in the project Figma project that says ready for dev. 00:22:07.820 --> 00:22:09.460 I don't know if it's actually gonna get. 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:15.640 Developed, um, but they have personal blog, which also says ready for dev. 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.490 So something tells me none of this other stuff's getting developed, photo 00:22:18.490 --> 00:22:22.260 blog and personal blog alternative. 00:22:22.310 --> 00:22:26.879 But yeah, it's just weird that this one just felt like maybe it just didn't get 00:22:26.879 --> 00:22:28.849 everything it needed to get out the door. 00:22:29.245 --> 00:22:30.695 Or just a bare minimum, I should say. 00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:36.050 Brian: I know there was a lot of call for support to build it. 00:22:36.070 --> 00:22:41.890 So I, I don't know if they didn't finish it or what, like you said, it's just in 00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:43.990 some, it's just an interesting theme. 00:22:44.510 --> 00:22:48.660 It's, It's, uh, you, I didn't even know about the thing where you. 00:22:48.730 --> 00:22:55.040 You can switch out the template of your blog with that sidebar kind of drawer 00:22:55.040 --> 00:22:56.880 that opens up and it says design. 00:22:57.460 --> 00:23:00.180 I don't, you know, the sidebar, it's like your header, your footer. 00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.310 And then there's like this accordion with all these other templates in there. 00:23:03.350 --> 00:23:05.050 I had never seen that before. 00:23:05.465 --> 00:23:05.915 Matt: Right. 00:23:05.930 --> 00:23:07.570 Brian: I learned that from you on Twitter. 00:23:08.315 --> 00:23:08.685 Matt: Yep. 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:09.970 Brian: some of them are in there. 00:23:10.134 --> 00:23:11.835 Matt: laugh, like you learn something from me, Brian. 00:23:11.875 --> 00:23:13.805 That's just, that's just not nice. 00:23:14.155 --> 00:23:14.524 Uh, yeah. 00:23:14.525 --> 00:23:17.675 I mean, there's always some, some sort of surprise, uh, you 00:23:18.204 --> 00:23:20.385 of this stuff, uh, zoom out is nice. 00:23:20.425 --> 00:23:22.065 Uh, we talked about that for a second. 00:23:22.105 --> 00:23:22.805 Zoom out's nice. 00:23:22.845 --> 00:23:26.145 Um, on from 2025, anything else? 00:23:27.485 --> 00:23:29.285 Interesting to you from for six seven. 00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:35.690 Brian: Um, well, no, I mean, you can upload photos from your iPhone. 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:37.100 I actually really liked that one. 00:23:38.080 --> 00:23:38.450 don't know. 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.720 Do you use ever like. 00:23:40.295 --> 00:23:41.595 WordPress on your phone or no? 00:23:41.814 --> 00:23:43.865 Matt: I don't can't say I do. 00:23:44.545 --> 00:23:45.325 Brian: Yeah, no. 00:23:45.375 --> 00:23:47.175 Well, you can do that. 00:23:47.205 --> 00:23:49.705 Um, no, it's, it's really a lot of under the hood stuff. 00:23:49.765 --> 00:23:51.025 There's really not like. 00:23:51.805 --> 00:23:55.335 An exciting showcase thing, but I, you know, there's some cool stuff that I 00:23:55.345 --> 00:23:57.845 think will one day lead to something cool. 00:23:58.754 --> 00:24:02.115 Matt: Yes for sure for sure wordpress at six point seven. 00:24:02.115 --> 00:24:03.485 That's that in a bag again. 00:24:03.495 --> 00:24:07.764 You're probably listening to this a week and a half ish From when it launched 00:24:07.765 --> 00:24:11.545 so maybe some cool things happen since hopefully we're not regretting this like 00:24:11.545 --> 00:24:19.399 we have other pieces of content We've published But let's talk Quick here about, 00:24:19.430 --> 00:24:27.760 um, um, I've been using it recently uh, something called cursor, uh, which I guess 00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:33.050 is, uh, forked from VS code and, um, how I was learning how to build these things, 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:36.339 uh, which you'll hear in another episode with Mark Szymanski and I talk about, 00:24:36.339 --> 00:24:38.930 but I was just throwing things at Claude. 00:24:39.820 --> 00:24:43.350 in the web browser of Claude and just like smashing my head against it. 00:24:43.350 --> 00:24:46.190 Like, yeah, build this thing, do this, this doesn't work, try it again. 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:49.349 I was just burning through credits and I just felt like I 00:24:49.349 --> 00:24:51.439 didn't know what I was doing. 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:56.459 I still don't, uh, but then I found Cursor and it would allow me to do 00:24:56.459 --> 00:25:01.289 the prompts to Claude through Cursor without eating up my pro account. 00:25:01.749 --> 00:25:03.155 Um, tokens. 00:25:03.495 --> 00:25:10.105 And, uh, the beauty of all of this is it brings me back to like when I first 00:25:10.175 --> 00:25:13.174 started unlocking some of the magic with custom post types and gravity 00:25:13.174 --> 00:25:14.894 forms and WordPress and custom fields. 00:25:15.155 --> 00:25:17.334 I'm like, Oh, shit, I can build these cool things now. 00:25:17.714 --> 00:25:20.794 And I'm having that same feeling like building with cursor. 00:25:21.215 --> 00:25:24.335 Um, again, I don't know what the code is doing, but I'm learning a lot. 00:25:24.365 --> 00:25:28.650 Like I'm learning API endpoints, passing data. 00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:31.430 Um, I'm learning a little bit more about JavaScript. 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.910 Uh, you know, I'm learning about new environments, uh, new coding, like 00:25:35.910 --> 00:25:40.600 frameworks, front end frameworks, like Svelte, uh, you know, using cloud 00:25:40.600 --> 00:25:44.800 flare, like I'm in this whole, like absorption mode of learning again. 00:25:45.239 --> 00:25:49.478 And it feels kind of fun, but then it also makes me appreciate everything 00:25:49.478 --> 00:25:50.909 that's baked into WordPress. 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.090 As like a complete application. 00:25:54.090 --> 00:25:55.640 Like, holy crap. 00:25:55.990 --> 00:25:58.440 Uh, you know, there is a lot here. 00:25:58.770 --> 00:26:03.560 Um, while I'm just like making one massive file to make up an entire app. 00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:08.399 Um, it's a, it's a, it's a weird, it's a, it's an interesting time, uh, to be 00:26:08.399 --> 00:26:11.350 the kind of like learning this stuff and being able to have this, this power. 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:14.200 Um, you know, I don't know where to lead me, but it's been fun. 00:26:15.545 --> 00:26:19.895 Brian: I think that I, it's funny cause I'm, I'm doing the exact 00:26:19.895 --> 00:26:22.625 opposite thing, but I think we should talk about this first. 00:26:22.685 --> 00:26:28.405 And it's, I like, I really do think that these AI tools, when it comes to like 00:26:28.455 --> 00:26:32.915 coding, I think, first of all, coding is the perfect thing for AI because it's 00:26:33.555 --> 00:26:36.505 their language models that are pretty different language, but they're But 00:26:36.505 --> 00:26:40.145 they're machines and coding is like a language written for machines and it's. 00:26:40.935 --> 00:26:45.965 The best so far, what I've seen, the best thing that AI can do is write code 00:26:46.205 --> 00:26:49.715 and then explain it to you and teach it to you, um, while you're writing it. 00:26:50.255 --> 00:26:55.085 And so, you know, I think, I don't think people should be, if you're 00:26:55.095 --> 00:26:57.065 really into coding and that's where you make your money, I don't 00:26:57.075 --> 00:26:58.285 think you need to be worried. 00:26:58.285 --> 00:27:02.965 I don't think Matt Madaris is going to AI his way to replacing you, but 00:27:02.965 --> 00:27:04.835 instead I do think you'll probably. 00:27:05.180 --> 00:27:05.590 Matt: Brian. 00:27:06.725 --> 00:27:09.715 Brian: Well, I mean, if you learn all this stuff, then you learn it. 00:27:09.715 --> 00:27:14.185 And that's the same, you know, whether you learn it from a AI or not, uh, 00:27:14.185 --> 00:27:15.625 that's, that that's irrelevant. 00:27:15.895 --> 00:27:21.685 Um, but I do think like people's ability to have an idea and have 00:27:21.685 --> 00:27:24.095 that idea exist in the world. 00:27:24.625 --> 00:27:26.305 Is going to be a lot faster. 00:27:26.305 --> 00:27:30.765 I even had a call recently with a person who hired a bunch of developers 00:27:30.785 --> 00:27:33.925 to build a thing, the kind of work that we used to do for years. 00:27:34.365 --> 00:27:37.275 And then talked through it and was kind of like, I think I could just 00:27:37.275 --> 00:27:42.485 do this with a spreadsheet and AI and not do, you know, not hire a bunch of 00:27:42.485 --> 00:27:46.825 developers to, you know, take six months and build me this complicated thing. 00:27:47.085 --> 00:27:49.405 And then if it works and I make a bunch of money, then I'll go 00:27:49.405 --> 00:27:50.675 get the developers and they'll 00:27:51.025 --> 00:27:52.265 turn it into the nicer thing. 00:27:52.515 --> 00:27:54.325 But like idea to. 00:27:54.635 --> 00:27:58.365 MVP, I think like that gap is like going way down with these tools. 00:28:00.095 --> 00:28:03.544 Matt: It also has me thinking, and this is the scary part, and this is 00:28:03.544 --> 00:28:06.014 where we could get in trouble again, but that's what you and I like to do. 00:28:06.455 --> 00:28:13.884 Um, you know, amidst all this stuff in the WordPress community, it really 00:28:13.884 --> 00:28:19.605 has me worried about, like, the impact of the situation that we're in. 00:28:19.615 --> 00:28:22.305 In other words, like, yeah, we love WordPress. 00:28:22.795 --> 00:28:29.165 I think a lot of us love the idea of like open source and and being sort 00:28:29.165 --> 00:28:31.504 of, uh, the north star for that, right? 00:28:31.504 --> 00:28:33.115 Well, you know, hey, you should use WordPress. 00:28:33.115 --> 00:28:33.564 It's open source. 00:28:33.564 --> 00:28:34.034 It's good. 00:28:34.365 --> 00:28:35.004 It's good. 00:28:35.395 --> 00:28:37.285 Uh, it's good to use open source. 00:28:37.294 --> 00:28:38.355 It's good to spread that. 00:28:38.645 --> 00:28:43.405 Um, and you know, you should vote, you know, with the complexities of WordPress 00:28:43.405 --> 00:28:45.665 and the challenges it has, you should also vote because it is open source 00:28:45.665 --> 00:28:47.464 and you control it, yada, yada, yada. 00:28:47.465 --> 00:28:51.024 Um, but this stuff. 00:28:51.840 --> 00:28:59.190 really gonna take away that excuse, um, or that hurdle, where people are like, 00:28:59.190 --> 00:29:02.459 you know what, I hear what you're saying over there, I hear that you want me to 00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:06.409 use WordPress, glad it's open source, but I'm just gonna whip together this 00:29:06.409 --> 00:29:10.790 thing with AI, you know, and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna connect up to a Google 00:29:10.790 --> 00:29:13.660 spreadsheet, and I'm just gonna, yeah, I'm just gonna string along a couple 00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:17.975 of proprietary sources, uh, to put this thing together, I'm sorry, but at the end 00:29:17.975 --> 00:29:21.455 of the day, I just need this thing done like I don't need to wrestle with it just 00:29:21.455 --> 00:29:27.115 because you want me to have this thing that, uh, is is good for, uh, you know, 00:29:27.254 --> 00:29:29.485 uh, for for the open source world, right? 00:29:29.675 --> 00:29:30.685 And for humanity. 00:29:30.764 --> 00:29:33.794 I don't know how we're going to wrestle with that packaging. 00:29:34.590 --> 00:29:37.100 Of that message, you know, moving forward. 00:29:37.600 --> 00:29:41.140 Technically you can make arguments, but I think from the layperson who has 00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:44.310 this, this power in front of him, is gonna be like, yeah, you know what? 00:29:45.260 --> 00:29:47.829 I don't care if I have to pay five bucks a month to Wix, and I just, I 00:29:47.860 --> 00:29:51.050 make this AI script, and it shoots off this database thing, and it stores 00:29:51.050 --> 00:29:52.349 it in Wix, and it displays in Wix. 00:29:52.790 --> 00:29:53.320 I can do it. 00:29:53.709 --> 00:29:57.140 Uh, versus You know, wrestling with WordPress. 00:29:57.290 --> 00:30:00.700 No direct question there, but like, these are the feelings I'm starting to see as 00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:02.910 I get outside of the walls of WordPress. 00:30:02.910 --> 00:30:05.610 And it only took me a week to start to see like, oh shit, like, 00:30:05.610 --> 00:30:08.010 this is what people are talking about on this side of the fence. 00:30:09.370 --> 00:30:10.600 Brian: I mean, I think two things. 00:30:10.610 --> 00:30:14.800 One is I think, think about when like Snapchat came out and it was like 00:30:14.800 --> 00:30:19.000 the idea that you would post content and it would delete after 24 hours. 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:20.150 And that was like this novel thing. 00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:24.580 And now it's pretty common in social media that you make content that disappears. 00:30:24.670 --> 00:30:25.380 And I think. 00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:29.900 This idea that everything you make online has to be so permanent and 00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:32.580 you want to own it is going to just does feel like less and less. 00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:35.020 You're like, no, I don't actually don't really care if this is 00:30:35.020 --> 00:30:35.940 going to be around in five years. 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:39.020 I just want to try to make something and see what happens and see if I 00:30:39.020 --> 00:30:42.890 could solve this immediate need and make something cool and then move on. 00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:44.465 And like, that is. 00:30:45.395 --> 00:30:47.175 Solved by a lot of these tools. 00:30:47.395 --> 00:30:51.445 And then I think the other thing is if people hadn't watched it's 00:30:51.585 --> 00:30:59.055 the word camp year, no Asia speech from Noel talk, who talks all about 00:30:59.065 --> 00:31:03.045 the future of WordPress and he really harps on this idea that like. 00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:06.350 What makes WordPress powerful is how you integrate it with other things. 00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:09.330 And we used to always have to say, everything goes in WordPress. 00:31:09.330 --> 00:31:12.890 I'm going to make my emails in here and my customer database in here. 00:31:12.890 --> 00:31:15.190 And I'm going to build everything inside my WordPress site. 00:31:15.220 --> 00:31:17.510 Whereas now what people really want is integrations. 00:31:17.510 --> 00:31:21.200 And they just like, I want a central hub to connect this and this and this. 00:31:21.490 --> 00:31:26.380 And if WordPress could still be that, that would be amazing. 00:31:26.390 --> 00:31:28.110 Cause it would be this kind of piece you own. 00:31:28.110 --> 00:31:29.430 That's at the heart of everything. 00:31:29.710 --> 00:31:33.390 Um, but if it doesn't, then yeah, I'm going to go pay. 00:31:33.635 --> 00:31:35.375 20 bucks a month to like make. 00:31:35.575 --> 00:31:38.815 com or something and kind of get a database and everything else 00:31:38.815 --> 00:31:40.085 that I needed from WordPress. 00:31:40.105 --> 00:31:43.115 And it's going to have all the integrations and it has a little AI 00:31:43.325 --> 00:31:46.715 where I just say like, I want this to do this and it'll just make it for me. 00:31:46.715 --> 00:31:51.375 And yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, very different than I think the internet 00:31:51.695 --> 00:31:53.815 expectations we all had 15 years ago. 00:31:54.705 --> 00:31:57.455 Matt: WordPress as the operating system of the web is what we were talking 00:31:57.455 --> 00:32:03.304 about what we collective we mostly Matt many years ago, and that was the 00:32:03.304 --> 00:32:04.249 tagline that always stuck with me. 00:32:04.570 --> 00:32:08.890 You know, bought, bought me into this whole thing is like, yeah, 00:32:08.890 --> 00:32:09.960 that sounds really interesting. 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.089 And again, this is like 15, 16, 17 years ago when he was saying stuff like that. 00:32:14.090 --> 00:32:17.540 And I was like, wow, I can really see this really see WordPress as that 00:32:17.540 --> 00:32:19.060 central hub to do all these things. 00:32:19.689 --> 00:32:23.599 You know, and we're seeing it now, like, um, yeah, whatever this big rush 00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:25.400 to blue sky, uh, you know, whatever. 00:32:25.705 --> 00:32:26.495 Whatever. 00:32:26.565 --> 00:32:31.375 It's another social media thing, uh, which is owned by the same guy who 00:32:31.375 --> 00:32:38.315 started Twitter, um, and it's like, when are humans going to learn, right? 00:32:38.315 --> 00:32:40.495 Yeah, everything's great now, man. 00:32:40.504 --> 00:32:42.054 Like, yeah, yeah, this algorithm's great. 00:32:42.064 --> 00:32:43.184 There's no ads, there's nothing here. 00:32:43.185 --> 00:32:43.619 Yeah. 00:32:44.830 --> 00:32:45.420 there is, 00:32:46.260 --> 00:32:47.930 know, and look what happened with Twitter. 00:32:47.930 --> 00:32:51.540 Twitter wasn't like amazing, um, before Elon got it. 00:32:51.540 --> 00:32:53.820 Twitter wasn't, hadn't been amazing since like the first 00:32:54.070 --> 00:32:55.619 three years of its inception. 00:32:55.959 --> 00:32:59.750 Um, you know, uh, so whatever, it's just another social network, but it 00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:03.929 also has me now going, fuck, and now I have to watch and post over here. 00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:07.190 I just want one place that posts everywhere, uh, which is 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:11.220 literally, you know, people should just be doing mastodon, right? 00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.760 But people don't like it because they're just like what? 00:33:14.050 --> 00:33:18.349 Uh this technique technique techie geek thing that I have to load up and there 00:33:18.349 --> 00:33:22.170 is no algorithm to surface any content There's nothing that drives me back to it 00:33:22.609 --> 00:33:26.500 Uh, you know people will live and die by this this engagement algorithm that all 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:30.440 these social media tools will eventually have um, i'd love to be able to go to 00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:32.650 wordpress and just be like Here's my post. 00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:36.280 It saves it as a blog, and then it also goes out to all the freaking 00:33:36.280 --> 00:33:38.200 platforms and posts to all of them. 00:33:38.470 --> 00:33:38.920 And that's it. 00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:39.820 And it leads it right back. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.050 And, and we're kind of getting that with like the Macon add-on. 00:33:43.050 --> 00:33:45.800 But I need it to go across all social media sites and I need the 00:33:45.800 --> 00:33:50.440 experience of on my phone to just be, I don't wanna log in, admin 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.120 dashboard, see it, navigate, click. 00:33:52.450 --> 00:33:53.110 I just wanna do it. 00:33:53.730 --> 00:33:54.810 Post it, send it, 00:33:55.710 --> 00:33:56.700 save the post, and let's move. 00:33:57.900 --> 00:34:01.600 Brian: I mean, I think blue sky did come from Twitter originally. 00:34:01.610 --> 00:34:06.330 It was a program in Twitter that he spun out right before they got taken over. 00:34:06.630 --> 00:34:10.240 And he, and he, and, uh, you know, what's his name, Dorsey 00:34:10.240 --> 00:34:11.340 doesn't even own it anymore. 00:34:11.370 --> 00:34:14.490 It's like, you know, and it's a little independent, but it is almost 00:34:14.490 --> 00:34:16.020 actually the same as a mastodon. 00:34:16.020 --> 00:34:16.820 It's the same where. 00:34:17.245 --> 00:34:18.095 It's open source. 00:34:18.115 --> 00:34:19.465 You can see all the code for it. 00:34:19.925 --> 00:34:24.305 Um, your, you can always export all of your content and data. 00:34:24.325 --> 00:34:27.005 Cause you have full access to your handle. 00:34:27.025 --> 00:34:30.315 You can take your username with you, which you can't do in Mastodon. 00:34:30.725 --> 00:34:33.155 Um, and it's federated, so you can make your own. 00:34:33.525 --> 00:34:36.965 Little standalone blue sky and connect it with that. 00:34:36.965 --> 00:34:40.565 So it's, it's kind of the same thing and it's got a lot of those same principles. 00:34:40.585 --> 00:34:44.635 And then yes, of course it has taken money from big companies and including 00:34:44.635 --> 00:34:46.085 automatic and other big companies. 00:34:46.335 --> 00:34:48.535 Um, but there are people working on. 00:34:49.570 --> 00:34:53.590 Doing for WordPress, what they did for Macedon, you know, but doing it for blue 00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:56.170 sky, like getting, figuring that out. 00:34:56.170 --> 00:34:57.150 I've seen people already do. 00:34:57.150 --> 00:35:01.250 They can post from WordPress to blue sky and the next one will 00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:02.760 be, I think, comments and stuff. 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:07.860 So I feel like all we really want is RSS and comments to work together 00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:09.370 and not have social media at all. 00:35:09.380 --> 00:35:12.080 Like we all want that golden era to come back. 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:17.570 We want social networks to work the same way email works where I just can sign up 00:35:17.570 --> 00:35:20.780 wherever I want and you sign up wherever you want and we communicate and it works 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.420 and I don't care that I'm on Google and you're not, you know, that's all we want. 00:35:25.254 --> 00:35:25.534 Matt: Yeah. 00:35:25.685 --> 00:35:34.735 I mean, and again, I still see it as could be, be that cornerstone RSS, uh, 00:35:34.774 --> 00:35:37.685 all your data, one place, everybody just subscribe to your RSS feed. 00:35:38.110 --> 00:35:39.690 RSS must continue to win. 00:35:40.160 --> 00:35:44.350 This is why I'm so, uh, about it, especially when it comes to podcasting. 00:35:44.350 --> 00:35:46.660 And people are like, Oh, yeah, Spotify's gonna do it. 00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:47.639 Spotify didn't do it. 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:48.849 Now everyone's like, Oh, YouTube's gonna do it. 00:35:48.849 --> 00:35:52.969 Well, watch what you wish, because YouTube killed, or Google killed their 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:54.940 podcast player on all Android devices. 00:35:54.949 --> 00:35:56.270 So do you think they actually care? 00:35:56.610 --> 00:35:58.369 Uh, you know, about podcasting and RSS? 00:35:58.370 --> 00:35:58.620 No. 00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.360 They just want you to go right into YouTube and feed that machine. 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:06.140 Um, RSS man is, is the way if everyone had an RSS feed, like 00:36:06.140 --> 00:36:10.120 everyone can have a domain, all your information would be there. 00:36:10.120 --> 00:36:12.480 You'd, you'd know how many subscribers you would have. 00:36:12.490 --> 00:36:14.820 You just post your information, everybody would get it. 00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:20.770 Uh, and the social sites just, you know, destroy it, but I'm willing to try. 00:36:21.490 --> 00:36:24.610 willing to try blue sky, uh, kicking and screaming. 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.690 Brian: I mean, I, there's two reasons I've really struggled with Mastodon and one is 00:36:31.110 --> 00:36:32.930 the technology and the user experience. 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:36.620 And I've even tried the fancy apps and I just, I don't know, it's hard. 00:36:36.720 --> 00:36:40.700 I don't feel like I, it doesn't feel as snappy as something like 00:36:40.700 --> 00:36:44.260 Twitter, but I think the other thing too, is they all start growing their 00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:46.010 own culture based on when they got. 00:36:46.295 --> 00:36:47.205 Big and popular. 00:36:47.235 --> 00:36:51.715 And so I think there's a definite culture that happened when Mastodon 00:36:51.725 --> 00:36:55.185 really like hit that last stride and it has a certain vibe to it. 00:36:55.625 --> 00:36:57.835 And I think blue sky is right now hitting that. 00:36:58.075 --> 00:37:02.685 And I really hope it's not like just a reactive political vibe, but it 00:37:02.685 --> 00:37:06.475 actually is just like a, it needs to be more than that because that's 00:37:06.475 --> 00:37:07.675 kind of what Mastodon felt like. 00:37:07.675 --> 00:37:10.385 And then it was like, well, if we're all just here, because we're 00:37:10.425 --> 00:37:12.785 against an idea and not here to. 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:15.880 Constructively, you know, that's not as helpful. 00:37:16.140 --> 00:37:21.600 So if you're going to try blue sky, come in constructive and like, make 00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:22.970 something that people are excited for. 00:37:22.970 --> 00:37:25.000 Not just mad about something else. 00:37:25.895 --> 00:37:26.165 Matt: hundred, 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:26.700 Brian: take. 00:37:26.700 --> 00:37:29.320 Uh, 00:37:29.455 --> 00:37:31.705 Matt: WordPress 6.7 2025 theme. 00:37:31.705 --> 00:37:32.815 We can zoom out now. 00:37:32.815 --> 00:37:34.195 It's fun, it's exciting. 00:37:34.225 --> 00:37:36.145 ai, uh, social media sites. 00:37:36.145 --> 00:37:40.945 What a grab bag, uh, today, Brian, what are, what are you up to, uh, these days? 00:37:40.945 --> 00:37:41.515 What are you working on? 00:37:41.515 --> 00:37:42.265 What can you tell folks? 00:37:42.265 --> 00:37:43.675 Remember, this is gonna go out in about a week and a half, 00:37:45.040 --> 00:37:48.090 Brian: hopefully by then I have a bunch of interviews I've been doing with WordPress 00:37:48.100 --> 00:37:51.880 developers, and we're talking about like Gutenberg, full site editing, agency life. 00:37:52.190 --> 00:37:54.060 Um, I've already been racking them up. 00:37:54.060 --> 00:37:55.550 So hopefully by the time this comes out. 00:37:56.080 --> 00:38:00.060 There will be one at least out or at least scheduled and, and those will be on 00:38:00.060 --> 00:38:02.790 YouTube like on a weekly semi weekly basis 00:38:03.495 --> 00:38:05.535 Matt: uh, YouTube, uh, at, at Brian 00:38:05.790 --> 00:38:06.280 Brian: records. 00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:06.370 Yep. 00:38:07.325 --> 00:38:08.095 Matt: Fantastic stuff. 00:38:08.095 --> 00:38:09.715 Everybody else is the WP minute, the WP minute. 00:38:09.815 --> 00:38:10.695 com slash subscribes. 00:38:10.695 --> 00:38:12.825 The number one way to stay connected. 00:38:13.375 --> 00:38:14.445 We'll see you in the next episode. 00:38:15.965 --> 00:38:17.245 Boom, boom, boom. 00:38:17.595 --> 00:38:17.884 All right.