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Mike Bifulco: Hello and welcome
back to APIs you won't hate.

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I, of course, am Mike Biko, one
of the founders of APIs you Won't

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Hate, and your podcast host.

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I am sitting down today for a conversation
with a new friend of mine to talk

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through what is a really interesting
API product with kind of a fascinating

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and unique story from inception to
product two, where they're today.

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And I'm really excited to sit down and
talk to Artem Bora from News Catcher.

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Artem is a, like me, a yc founder
and unlike me, has a really, really

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interesting story of the inception of
his company and how he's really built

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something interesting through many, many
interesting little bumps along the way.

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And I'm really excited
to get to chat with you.

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Artem.

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Thank you so much for joining.

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I, I appreciate it.

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How are you doing today?

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Hey, Mike.

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Thanks for having me.

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Yeah, I'm doing, I'm doing great.

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Happy to, happy to share something I've
learned so far as a first time founder.

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Yeah.

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Mike Bifulco: So let's, let's start I
think with, with Tell the World what

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let's tell the world what News Catcher is.

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So what's your elevator
pitch for news catcher?

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): It
is finding my elevator pitch for new

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sketcher changes almost every week, but
I think, I think the latest one, I think

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the latest one based on like all the
latest interactions and changes in the

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in the world is basically new sketcher.

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Think our assumption is, I'm
gonna start with a problem, right?

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So my assumption is that companies
don't really leverage information

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that can be found in news.

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Surely if you ask and, and, and
the most important thing is like,

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I think they do, but they don't.

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But they actually don't.

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If you ask like.

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The company, they're gonna obviously
say like, yeah, CEO management reads

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like Bloomberg or FT, or something else.

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And obviously they like really looking
into how like Trump Biden debate is going.

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Like who's gonna win?

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How the interest rate gonna change, what
the corporate tax, of course that's, and,

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and that's like important for big, it's
important like as, as a big microeconomic

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shift, like as, as a big thing going
on, or like the war and conflict.

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But in reality, like the, that's not
what usually makes company any like.

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Money usually in a day-to-Day business.

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There is like much more like direct
and applicable things that like are

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important and a lot of those actually
can be automated or like semi-automated.

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And so our idea is actually for all
the, at least the largest companies,

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like each department working for
like each industry in each region.

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Usually can benefit a lot by either losing
less money or gaining more money by like

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being able, able to leverage stuff that
can be publicly and openly available,

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not just like a big kind of things.

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So that's where we that, and that's
where we, that's where we are today.

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But in more simple, in more simple terms,
I would say that new sketcher basically.

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Provides a news, API, we aggregate
publicly available news articles from

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over the, over, all over the globe.

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And not just like big media, but
local news industry specific news.

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And then what we do is we
basically take this, we have over

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1 billion or one and a half billion
articles indexed in our database.

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All like index and, and, and
easily and being easy to search.

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And what we do is we kind of try
to meet an enterprise customer.

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Deeply understand what they need and
then say like, look, we have the data

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that you kind of, that has insights
and that has stuff that is important

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for you, but more of that we are gonna
help you really like integrate it.

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We are gonna do like
a bespoke integration.

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So a little bit like paler like approach.

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And I think that's our, that's
our, that's kind of our thing.

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I think one.

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Over the last four years doing new
Sketch, I think the most important

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insight we realized is that the
biggest problem is not like, you

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know, getting data and like getting
articles through the same shape and

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form from like over 70,000 new sources.

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It's rather to be able to actually
integrate it into like workflow

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into day-to-day of, business of some
of, of some specific department in

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a specific, in a specific company.

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So yeah, that's, that's kind of
where we are where we are right now.

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Mike Bifulco: When you and I first
chatted, I was really interested

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diving in on your website, looking
at some of the information on there.

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The, the heading of your website is
something like news intelligence at a

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global scale or something like that.

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And from the sounds of it, so you've got
a database with hundreds of thousands,

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millions, billions articles 70,000
sources and all focused on aggregating

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and providing intelligence around news.

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah.

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Mike Bifulco: One of the first questions
that my mind ran into is like, how

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does that, how do we get there?

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How does that start?

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That is a, a massive undertaking of a
project, and I'm really curious about

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like the story that got you there.

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So can you tell me a little bit
about maybe your career leading

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up to News Catcher and the reason
that, that this came into existence?

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Sure.

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So basically News sketcher
has two founders me and Maxim.

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Maxim is CTO, I'm the CEO, but originally
we are both non CAS degree data geeks.

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Kind

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Mike Bifulco: I like it.

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): yeah.

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So, and, and probably like, I'm gonna
start with like, so I know Maxim already

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for like 15 ish years, since like
schooling back in Ukraine in the next.

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Then we actually studied together
in one university in Ukraine.

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Then we got accepted to the
same university in Strasburg.

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And like, so yeah, we got a lot of
actually years been studying together.

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And then just for the few years, I
think we've been like a little bit

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apart from like doing different master's
degrees and having different our

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first jobs basically, but originally.

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So we got into, so like I said, we
had like no CS degree engineers, so we

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like, we had to do all of it ourselves.

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And it actually started one
day in Strasburg, France, where

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Maxim came to me and he said, I.

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I just like learn about this, like
Titanic dataset, Titanic, like

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machine learning competition on kale.

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Kale is a website for machine learning
people to like compete with each other.

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And it was like, I think 10 maybe, I
think, yeah, I think it was 10, kind

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of 10 or nine or eight years ago.

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And Maxim and I both kind of, we
studied eh, we studied economics

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and I think economics was the
last part we actually enjoyed.

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We enjoyed the most like mathematics
and statistics and like game theory and

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probability and all this kind of stuff.

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And so like these Kaggle and like data
science sounded like a nice trajectory

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for us to, to keep working on.

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And so we, that's how we got
into like programming by.

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Learning RI think we, I think we actually,

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Mike Bifulco: Wow.

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Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
yeah, I think we actually

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like studied on data camp.

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I think there was the website and I
actually remember Maxim one day was

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like waking, I think he, he, at some
point he took all the courses, all the

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courses and, and, and I dunno how much
actually he learned from them, but

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he was like really dedicated to like.

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Studied and doing something with that.

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So yeah, we, we've been basically
slowly just getting into this.

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And for our master's degree, I went to
Toulu School of Economics which is pretty

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solid economic school where the, I think
the dean or the head of it has like

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a Nobel Prize in economics and Jeanti
Hall, and I started the econometrics.

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And that's actually like, you
know, like a, like a, like a

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more like applicable applied.

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Economic economics economic,
like economic statistics mix.

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And Maxim actually started like
something actually that was called,

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I guess, data science in Paris.

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But yeah we've been there and
one thing that happened, I went

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to, after the first year at.

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Doing my masters, I found an
internship in a French company.

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So basically the CEO is a TSE to School
of Economics alum in Dubai, a vendor.

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And, and basically I was like
an, an intern there and then I

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said like, look, I don't want to
really go back to, to university.

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I know how many more years of education
I need to actually to actually work.

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I, I always, I always thought about
it to be fairly honest with you.

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And so I started with my very first
job where I was like, just like, I

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think I had a lot of freedom and I
could like, try to improve a lot.

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And I think that's where like I
understood that like, I really like

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coding and one day I, I had a, I
had to do some web scraping job and

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that's how I said like, okay, it's
finally time to like open Python.

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And I think this, in one day
I started doing something in

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Python and then I came back to r.

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And yeah, and since then I, I was like
really passionate about Python and I was

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trying to do a lot of like side projects
as well as Maxim and we chatted about it.

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We really, we really liked it and I.

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I guess at some point I realized one
thing, I don't know anything about Python.

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I know like Python, but I don't even
know what server is, how internet works.

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And so I had some side project
where I decided to go from zero

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to one, like following like
Y Cator startup school thing.

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And so basically I, I, I've launched like
a, like I was like scraping some news

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actually, like comparing some coverage
for, for the, some something in Ukraine.

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I think the, the, the
presidential election.

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But basically it was like pretty cool
'cause I, I had to learn everything

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and I think I still remember this
evening where I realized that, well,

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database is actually like, you can.

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Get it running with one Linux call.

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Like, it's like Postgres apparently
doesn't have to be like, it's not

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a big building with like data.

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It, it is pretty much, it's
pretty much easier than that.

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And I think that that was like, like
really I was working a lot and like

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I was doing my side project a lot
and for like two months I, I kind of

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learned a lot of stuff about like how
things work, how servers work, what

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AWS is like, how, how everything works.

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And I really kind of enjoyed it.

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And since then I felt like.

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It is pretty cool.

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I should probably do something
I should probably do something

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something of, of my own with that.

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And I guess by the end of 2019
I was just looking for another

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like side project technically.

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Interesting.

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I just found this like other new
EPI and I and I thought like,

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look, it sounds like a good idea.

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Even though I don't really
have any problem with it.

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I don't know anyone who needs
it, but I just thought like.

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It's a really cool technical challenge.

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And so that was like a side new sketch.

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It was like a side project
in the, in the beginning.

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And so I guess if you, if if there's
anyone listening to me like it's having

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a cool technical challenge is a, is a
great reason for the side project and

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it's probably like the worst reason
for like starting actually a company.

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If you dunno, you dunno
what you're doing for who.

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Like, and that's what a lot of people do.

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They kind of like assume, I think.

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I think they assume that.

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Something is needed.

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They build it, they ship
the code, no one uses it.

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They select yes, we need more features.

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They add more features.

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Well that, that's not,
that's not how it works.

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But anyway, one thing, but the few things
from startup school that we, so yeah, and

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I, and I asked Maxim to join me and, and
we started like remotely, it was beginning

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of 2020 there was some rumors about this
big kind of flu stuff going on in China.

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And so we thought like, yeah, that,
that's probably like the really.

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Which for people listening us from 2000
55 there was a thing called co covid.

00:11:32.591 --> 00:11:36.401
And so yeah, we, it thought like,
okay, like the whole, the whole plan is

00:11:36.401 --> 00:11:41.651
gonna shut down, but that sounds like
just the right time to quit my job and

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start, start new sketcher, any end.

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So we took the basics of Y
Combin, which is like launch fast.

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Talk to your users, focus on everything.

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What's important.

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So we just said like, okay, we
gonna give ourself two months

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to build some kind of MVP.

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We're gonna release it.

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And that's how it all, that's
how it all kind of started.

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In two months, we
actually released our MVP.

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We actually, I wrote a blog post.

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There was like a blog post.

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How we've done it mostly on like.

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Credits from startups called and AWS and
mostly using just AWS Lambdas and Dynamo.

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So it was like, and,
and AWS Elasticsearch.

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So it was a lot of like cloud
slash serverless solutions.

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So yeah, we just, we just kind of, we
just kind of launched and surprisingly

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it was a really nice, it was a really
nice thing to do because that got us some

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kind of like, attention from the crowd.

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I think I've done a lot of like
passing on Reddit and hack news.

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To figure out like if people like it.

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So I think at this stage we kind of
realized that yeah, like people like it.

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And we thought like, this is an, even
though no one was really like, yeah, take

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my money and, and give me the access.

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But it felt like, yeah, that
there's like some buzz around it.

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Like people, people think it's cool.

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So we should probably, we
should probably keep doing that.

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Mike Bifulco: Sure.

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Yeah.

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You've taken a really interesting path.

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So I, I would guess you may be the
only person I've ever met who started

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coding by learning R and found your
way into building a full on product.

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Like I think there's probably a lot
of data scientists, data engineers,

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whatever they're called in 2024.

00:13:12.896 --> 00:13:15.896
Who, who learned R or Python
or something like it first.

00:13:16.146 --> 00:13:20.286
It's definitely a fully inverted way to,
to get yourself to learning about servers

00:13:20.286 --> 00:13:21.666
and the web and all that from there.

00:13:21.986 --> 00:13:25.856
And I'm, I am really intrigued by your
ability to drum up interest too, right?

00:13:25.856 --> 00:13:28.076
Like, that's always an interesting
part of the story for me as well.

00:13:28.081 --> 00:13:31.426
So you mentioned writing some blog
posts and getting attention for your,

00:13:31.426 --> 00:13:33.196
your MVP and your early prototypes.

00:13:33.296 --> 00:13:36.416
It's the chicken and the egg
problem, especially for something

00:13:36.416 --> 00:13:39.446
like what you've ended up building
is really fascinating to me.

00:13:39.506 --> 00:13:43.176
And it sounds like you found the right,
right ways to get people pointed to it.

00:13:43.206 --> 00:13:47.356
I, I saw earlier I was googling
your name and saw your post

00:13:47.356 --> 00:13:48.746
about your trick to drum up.

00:13:48.746 --> 00:13:51.686
I think it's something like a thousand
plus stars on your GitHub repos.

00:13:51.686 --> 00:13:51.896
Right.

00:13:51.896 --> 00:13:52.286
Things like

00:13:52.466 --> 00:13:52.776
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): yeah.

00:13:53.006 --> 00:13:55.896
Mike Bifulco: you, you've got a
marketing muscle somewhere along the

00:13:55.896 --> 00:13:57.486
lines, and I'm, I'm curious how you.

00:13:58.166 --> 00:13:58.856
Landed on that?

00:13:58.856 --> 00:14:00.446
Like is that just a natural thing for you?

00:14:00.451 --> 00:14:02.906
Is that something that you've
gleaned from people you followed?

00:14:02.906 --> 00:14:03.536
How did that happen?

00:14:04.786 --> 00:14:05.086
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah.

00:14:05.091 --> 00:14:08.176
So I guess the, I, I'm trying to think.

00:14:08.206 --> 00:14:11.236
Yeah, so we have, I think I have
in total like maybe 5K stars.

00:14:11.236 --> 00:14:13.066
I've done two like things, some really.

00:14:13.566 --> 00:14:16.866
Like it's, honestly, it's like a hundred
lines of code in Python, but like

00:14:16.866 --> 00:14:20.136
done something useful, very connected,
basically like the RSS feed of New York

00:14:20.136 --> 00:14:23.616
Times with just name New York Times
and you type New York Times and you get

00:14:23.616 --> 00:14:25.506
all the latest news from our, it's RSS.

00:14:25.511 --> 00:14:29.226
It's something really easy, but
no one thought about like doing,

00:14:29.256 --> 00:14:32.406
doing this, but I guess, yeah.

00:14:32.406 --> 00:14:36.486
So this, this kind of marketing or like,
let's call it like go to market through

00:14:36.486 --> 00:14:40.926
developers is actually not, I, I don't
think it's, it's right now it's not.

00:14:41.436 --> 00:14:47.286
It, it's, it's one of the, honestly, it's
not what you should do in the beginning.

00:14:47.436 --> 00:14:49.896
What you should do is you should
like, call people and like talk

00:14:49.896 --> 00:14:51.216
to them and like email them.

00:14:51.266 --> 00:14:56.006
But I probably started it 'cause I
knew that like, you know, early on I.

00:14:56.351 --> 00:14:59.771
That's the only thing I actually,
I, I, I, I think I thought

00:14:59.771 --> 00:15:00.941
I understand how to write.

00:15:00.971 --> 00:15:01.121
Yeah.

00:15:01.121 --> 00:15:04.331
I was, I was writing some
technical blog posts before, like

00:15:04.331 --> 00:15:05.471
in the last six years and stuff.

00:15:05.531 --> 00:15:09.041
So I thought, like, I feel like I
understand really well how to write

00:15:09.041 --> 00:15:12.011
and how to talk to developers,
and that's actually someone

00:15:12.011 --> 00:15:13.691
who I consider myself to be.

00:15:13.901 --> 00:15:17.081
So that was just the thing that I
thought I will do the best, not.

00:15:18.101 --> 00:15:21.251
Maybe I also thought back then that
this is like the right approach.

00:15:21.431 --> 00:15:25.661
So we were just more into like, you
know, we'll just try, try something

00:15:27.071 --> 00:15:30.281
and let's say it's something that we
probably assume that we know the best.

00:15:30.371 --> 00:15:35.231
So that's kind of why, I think that's
why we decided to talk to like no, try

00:15:35.236 --> 00:15:39.311
to try do like I think it's, you can
call it like the bottom up approach

00:15:39.311 --> 00:15:46.301
or like trying to talk to which, which
actually ended up I think not being.

00:15:48.956 --> 00:15:49.256
I dunno.

00:15:49.256 --> 00:15:52.886
I think, you know, it's really hard to go
and like write emails and talk to people

00:15:52.891 --> 00:15:56.786
and try to get some like decision makers
to talk to you people with real problems.

00:15:57.236 --> 00:16:02.366
And I think, and it didn't help honestly,
the fact that we spoke just to developers.

00:16:02.396 --> 00:16:02.966
'cause usually I.

00:16:03.536 --> 00:16:07.016
A lot of them, they themselves don't know
what they do or what they need is like,

00:16:07.016 --> 00:16:08.546
you know, not really something critical.

00:16:08.546 --> 00:16:10.046
They just wanna play
around with something.

00:16:10.406 --> 00:16:15.686
So I, I guess for some industry, maybe
this works, but for our, that, that's,

00:16:15.691 --> 00:16:20.036
I don't think that's like kind of
the, the right, the right approach.

00:16:20.041 --> 00:16:24.326
And I think like we lost a lot of time
trying to talk to wrong people, basically.

00:16:25.386 --> 00:16:25.806
Mike Bifulco: Yeah.

00:16:25.806 --> 00:16:26.346
that is.

00:16:27.026 --> 00:16:30.836
Also an interesting angle too, and you,
you've said this in a way that a lot

00:16:30.836 --> 00:16:33.806
of founders who have been through the
process and have, have found their way

00:16:33.806 --> 00:16:37.766
into a product, say it, that in hindsight,
there's definitely other things you could

00:16:37.766 --> 00:16:41.036
have done, but really the fundamentals
that we hear a lot of, go talk to as many

00:16:41.036 --> 00:16:44.756
people as you can who you think might be
your customers before you build something.

00:16:44.761 --> 00:16:47.611
Validate the idea, then spend time
building it, and then, you know,

00:16:47.611 --> 00:16:50.071
iterate, keep talking to them over
and over and things like that.

00:16:50.691 --> 00:16:54.651
I'm really interested too, that you came
to this through YC Startup School and then

00:16:54.711 --> 00:16:58.046
from, from our sort of prior chats, I, I
know you had an interesting way of even

00:16:58.046 --> 00:17:00.286
getting into your Y Combinator batch too.

00:17:00.286 --> 00:17:01.396
Can you tell me a little bit about that?

00:17:01.856 --> 00:17:03.626
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Yeah, so we applied to yc, I think

00:17:03.626 --> 00:17:08.066
first time We applied as soon as
we started, and we applied in total

00:17:08.066 --> 00:17:10.076
of four times with new sketcher.

00:17:10.436 --> 00:17:15.356
And we got invited to interview twice
with new sketcher, and we actually

00:17:15.356 --> 00:17:18.116
got accepted, got invited to YC twice.

00:17:18.431 --> 00:17:25.371
With new sketcher in summer 2021,
we had to decline like going to

00:17:25.371 --> 00:17:29.031
Y Combinator because we already
agreed to go to Tiny Seed, a small

00:17:29.031 --> 00:17:31.501
kind of program for Bootstrappers.

00:17:31.931 --> 00:17:37.331
So we took some money from them and took
this like year to basically just like.

00:17:37.916 --> 00:17:41.546
Do our small bootstrap thing as,
as we thought, like it doesn't

00:17:41.546 --> 00:17:43.196
have a big enough kind of market.

00:17:43.886 --> 00:17:49.466
And then basically we reapplied
in 2022 for summer 2022.

00:17:49.806 --> 00:17:51.156
We got into interview again.

00:17:51.206 --> 00:17:55.526
It was with Michael sbo from 2021 to 2022.

00:17:55.531 --> 00:17:57.026
We grew from I think three.

00:17:57.031 --> 00:17:59.906
So we started, when we
started we had like zero MRR.

00:18:00.401 --> 00:18:05.621
Then when we applied in six months,
in 2020, I think we had like, like few

00:18:05.621 --> 00:18:07.181
hundred bucks, maybe a seven bucks.

00:18:07.281 --> 00:18:11.721
MRR then we first accepted to, so it
was our third application in 2021.

00:18:12.191 --> 00:18:17.231
We were at like three KMRR, but,
and then, you know, they kind of

00:18:17.231 --> 00:18:18.701
like accepted us and we said no.

00:18:18.701 --> 00:18:20.591
I said, like, we
explained it was all fine.

00:18:20.591 --> 00:18:24.461
I think big kudos to Brett Flora,
who, who were the partner there.

00:18:25.631 --> 00:18:29.201
And we reapplied one year later and we
kind of was like, kind of really, like,

00:18:29.321 --> 00:18:32.351
I spent on a application, probably like
a day, really, like at this point I

00:18:32.351 --> 00:18:34.151
didn't like spend that much time there.

00:18:34.451 --> 00:18:37.481
But I think we, we got really like,
you know, nervous because like right

00:18:37.481 --> 00:18:41.441
now we already got some money, so
we had to show actually some growth.

00:18:41.441 --> 00:18:43.421
So we grew from three K to 20 K.

00:18:43.701 --> 00:18:47.436
And I guess, I don't know what, but like
why C why C accepted us again and I was

00:18:47.436 --> 00:18:48.846
really happy we are like this Michael.

00:18:48.846 --> 00:18:49.926
'cause I think.

00:18:50.326 --> 00:18:54.946
I was, I'm, I'm a big fan of I'm a big
fan of his and I think few things for

00:18:54.946 --> 00:18:56.896
people who kind of wanna apply to yc.

00:18:56.956 --> 00:18:59.316
I know there's, I actually think
I know why we got accepted, so

00:18:59.316 --> 00:19:02.826
I, I have some like, kind of as
assumption about why we got accepted.

00:19:02.826 --> 00:19:04.836
So a, a, a few things here.

00:19:04.836 --> 00:19:07.386
Like, first of all, we got
really consistent, so we applied.

00:19:07.391 --> 00:19:09.126
First time we said we're gonna work on it.

00:19:09.546 --> 00:19:12.246
We applied Second time we said like,
yeah, we actually worked on it.

00:19:13.206 --> 00:19:14.316
We applied this short time.

00:19:14.316 --> 00:19:16.476
We said like, yeah, you know,
like, you didn't get back to us

00:19:16.476 --> 00:19:20.346
first two times, but look, we get
some progress and so on and so on.

00:19:20.346 --> 00:19:23.256
I guess it's really important
to show kind of, you know, the

00:19:23.261 --> 00:19:25.206
consistency that you, that you have.

00:19:25.206 --> 00:19:26.466
I guess a lot of people think like.

00:19:27.061 --> 00:19:30.271
That's what YC kind of actually assume.

00:19:30.271 --> 00:19:33.991
Like, okay, you have some idea, you
say you want to commit to it, but like

00:19:34.021 --> 00:19:37.891
if we don't get, if we don't accept
you, are you actually gonna work on it?

00:19:37.891 --> 00:19:41.641
'cause like, usually I think you
should, you should work on it.

00:19:41.646 --> 00:19:44.041
Whether you get to YC
or not, YC shouldn't be.

00:19:44.041 --> 00:19:46.171
Or that's not the only way
to start like a startup.

00:19:47.011 --> 00:19:50.161
And I guess, you know, I, I'm,
I'm, I'm, last time there was

00:19:50.161 --> 00:19:51.811
like applied to YC on high canoes.

00:19:51.811 --> 00:19:54.751
There was like a lot of
crowds saying how YC is.

00:19:55.221 --> 00:20:01.401
Bad or how a lot of companies
do like millions of a RR without

00:20:01.401 --> 00:20:03.231
funding, which is again, true.

00:20:03.246 --> 00:20:09.651
I, I don't say anything about it, but
YC is trying to invest into people

00:20:09.651 --> 00:20:12.261
who like, say, like we are gonna build
a billion dollar companies, or like

00:20:12.291 --> 00:20:14.421
trillion dollar companies, and obviously.

00:20:14.856 --> 00:20:18.486
That is a really different path
from like, you know what you can do

00:20:18.486 --> 00:20:23.076
bootstrapping and you know, if you
are solo founder and doing million

00:20:23.076 --> 00:20:27.066
dollars a year and spending on it,
probably like three K bucks in a s bill.

00:20:27.336 --> 00:20:29.916
I mean, honestly that's, that's,
that's absolutely fantastic.

00:20:29.916 --> 00:20:31.236
You just like cashing out all the money.

00:20:31.236 --> 00:20:34.296
But it's not a billion dollar company
still, even though you can get paid

00:20:34.296 --> 00:20:38.526
more than founders that actually
started a billion dollar companies.

00:20:38.736 --> 00:20:41.436
And one thing that stood out to me
on the hack news, there was like,

00:20:41.436 --> 00:20:43.116
I think someone saying like, how.

00:20:43.596 --> 00:20:47.626
People in, in yc they like,
you know, they need to go to

00:20:47.626 --> 00:20:50.926
Harvard or MIT or this or that.

00:20:50.931 --> 00:20:54.616
And, and I thought like, you know,
it's, it, it's, it's probably true.

00:20:54.646 --> 00:20:59.566
It's true because the best kind of
kids get accepted to M-I-T-M-I-T

00:20:59.571 --> 00:21:00.916
doesn't really give them that much.

00:21:00.946 --> 00:21:04.156
Harvard, it's actually like they
have such a high bar that obviously

00:21:04.156 --> 00:21:08.146
doesn't market for like kind of
people, but YCI think has always been

00:21:08.146 --> 00:21:10.516
and still is a place for outsiders.

00:21:10.726 --> 00:21:12.196
And I guess the biggest kind of.

00:21:13.396 --> 00:21:16.616
The biggest biggest companies are
built from outsiders, and I guess

00:21:16.646 --> 00:21:20.546
that's something you can probably tell,
you can probably like say about us.

00:21:20.886 --> 00:21:24.216
Maxim and I are like first time founders.

00:21:24.616 --> 00:21:26.891
We never studied computer science.

00:21:26.941 --> 00:21:28.021
We got into coding.

00:21:28.301 --> 00:21:30.606
We started new schedule
by quitting our jobs.

00:21:30.636 --> 00:21:34.806
We come from, we like kind of, we
come from a country, from a region

00:21:34.806 --> 00:21:36.606
where the war started in 2000.

00:21:36.936 --> 00:21:37.416
14.

00:21:37.416 --> 00:21:41.616
So we are like a typical exam and like we
don't have any like cool kind of degree.

00:21:42.036 --> 00:21:44.796
The, the places we work at were like SMBs.

00:21:44.796 --> 00:21:46.926
We never worked at like Microsoft, apple.

00:21:46.926 --> 00:21:52.416
We had not like no good school, no good
university, no good, like place of work.

00:21:52.416 --> 00:21:54.576
Like none of this is
really like a requirement.

00:21:54.576 --> 00:21:56.826
So it's rather being consistent.

00:21:56.826 --> 00:22:00.426
And I think the last thing I'm
gonna say about YC and people get

00:22:00.426 --> 00:22:01.761
who try to get accepted to yc.

00:22:02.256 --> 00:22:06.036
I recommend a lot of people to YC
and then I, they get to the interview

00:22:06.036 --> 00:22:09.036
and they, they get rejected and I
ask them why, and they tell me like,

00:22:09.036 --> 00:22:11.976
yeah, they told us about because
of this or that, and I'm looking at

00:22:11.976 --> 00:22:13.026
them and say like, look, don't worry.

00:22:13.026 --> 00:22:15.456
Like I don't have this
figure out yet either.

00:22:15.461 --> 00:22:17.526
So that, that's like,
that's one of the reason.

00:22:17.526 --> 00:22:20.856
But I guess the biggest
one is like YC in people.

00:22:20.976 --> 00:22:24.876
They kind of, if you are like a great
founder with like the, honestly, what

00:22:24.876 --> 00:22:26.436
you're gonna think is like the stupidest.

00:22:26.826 --> 00:22:27.876
Idea that never gonna work.

00:22:27.876 --> 00:22:28.866
They still gonna fund you.

00:22:28.896 --> 00:22:32.346
'cause they know that like you are
smart enough to like validate it,

00:22:32.406 --> 00:22:33.546
understand that it doesn't work.

00:22:33.546 --> 00:22:35.736
Change your mind and
build something great.

00:22:36.066 --> 00:22:40.356
So YC really invest in people,
not ideas or anything like that.

00:22:41.586 --> 00:22:44.346
Mike Bifulco: I concur and
it's a hard thing to convey.

00:22:44.346 --> 00:22:44.376
I.

00:22:44.876 --> 00:22:47.756
You will see a lot of things online
about people applying to YC and

00:22:47.936 --> 00:22:50.726
getting no message back, but getting
rejected, not hearing back, getting

00:22:50.726 --> 00:22:52.076
an interview, and getting rejected.

00:22:52.076 --> 00:22:56.486
And I think the, the through line in
your story, and from what I've seen and

00:22:56.486 --> 00:22:59.401
observed with my company and with others
that have been through the program, is

00:22:59.401 --> 00:23:03.161
that not only is consistency important
and people being invested in the problem

00:23:03.161 --> 00:23:08.341
they're looking to solve, but showing
some, penchant to listen to feedback

00:23:08.341 --> 00:23:09.811
and make change based on your business.

00:23:09.811 --> 00:23:12.901
So when they say they're, they're
investing in founders, it is really

00:23:12.961 --> 00:23:16.141
like the type of person who wants
to build a company that the company

00:23:16.141 --> 00:23:18.811
will be successful and not the
type of person who has an idea.

00:23:18.811 --> 00:23:20.401
And it has to be that idea.

00:23:20.451 --> 00:23:23.961
Many YC companies have been through
pretty wild, like 180 degree pivots

00:23:23.961 --> 00:23:26.901
that have moved them from, you
know, one, one area of the world

00:23:26.901 --> 00:23:28.101
to something completely different.

00:23:28.101 --> 00:23:29.811
And, it's a subtle, weird thing.

00:23:29.811 --> 00:23:30.621
I like you.

00:23:30.621 --> 00:23:34.791
I'm also not an MIT or Stanford or Harvard
or, you know, wherever Carnegie Mellon

00:23:34.791 --> 00:23:38.991
grad I went to a humble public state
school here in the US and have stumbled

00:23:38.996 --> 00:23:40.791
through a lucky career at since then.

00:23:40.841 --> 00:23:43.841
But I, I, I think a lot of the folks who I
met, especially going through, the summer

00:23:43.841 --> 00:23:47.341
program at yc at the very beginning,
last summer, we kicked off with a an

00:23:47.341 --> 00:23:50.571
outing, a week long weekend where all
of the YC founders for the batch went.

00:23:50.571 --> 00:23:53.331
And one of the things that was
consistently true with every founder

00:23:53.331 --> 00:23:55.131
that I met was imposter syndrome.

00:23:55.371 --> 00:23:57.651
Everyone thought they didn't belong
there for one reason or another.

00:23:57.651 --> 00:23:58.881
I'm too young, I'm too old.

00:23:58.886 --> 00:24:00.021
I haven't finished college.

00:24:00.241 --> 00:24:01.616
I don't know if my idea is good.

00:24:01.616 --> 00:24:02.576
I'm not smart enough.

00:24:02.576 --> 00:24:03.476
All these things.

00:24:03.716 --> 00:24:07.166
That's, that's maybe hopefully a happy
thing to hear for a lot of people.

00:24:07.166 --> 00:24:09.296
Like nobody really thinks
they can do these things.

00:24:09.686 --> 00:24:12.926
And it's an important thing to
realize that we're all fallible

00:24:12.926 --> 00:24:15.846
in some way and we're all you
know, just, just trying our best.

00:24:15.846 --> 00:24:17.496
It's not like there's some
secret handshake that.

00:24:17.496 --> 00:24:17.826
makes.

00:24:18.146 --> 00:24:21.086
YC founders better or different
or whatever than everyone else?

00:24:21.316 --> 00:24:21.586
Yeah.

00:24:21.586 --> 00:24:21.886
I don't know.

00:24:21.886 --> 00:24:23.836
Maybe I should get off
my high horse there too.

00:24:23.866 --> 00:24:26.926
There's definitely a lot of privilege
wrapped up in what I'm saying, so yeah.

00:24:26.956 --> 00:24:27.136
Okay.

00:24:27.136 --> 00:24:29.766
So Artem you went through the YC
program, that was your, your, you

00:24:29.766 --> 00:24:33.276
were summer of 2021 was your batch,
so that was a few years ago now.

00:24:33.466 --> 00:24:35.446
Tell me about where news catcher is now.

00:24:36.111 --> 00:24:36.291
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah.

00:24:36.291 --> 00:24:38.871
So we in summer 2022, we went to yc.

00:24:39.376 --> 00:24:39.736
Mike Bifulco: 22.

00:24:39.741 --> 00:24:40.071
Sorry.

00:24:40.221 --> 00:24:40.461
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): yeah.

00:24:40.461 --> 00:24:42.261
So two years, yeah, two years ago.

00:24:42.261 --> 00:24:46.411
So so yeah, when we went to
yc, we didn't, we had a lot of.

00:24:46.896 --> 00:24:50.706
Different types of customers, basically,
like people doing probably like the,

00:24:51.516 --> 00:24:55.296
like a lot of platforms who need an
integrated news or something like that.

00:24:55.626 --> 00:24:58.116
And I guess when I first meeting
with Michael Sebel, he was like, okay

00:24:58.116 --> 00:24:59.586
guys, I like doing like, what is this?

00:24:59.591 --> 00:25:01.146
Like, is it like for enterprises?

00:25:01.506 --> 00:25:03.576
And we said like, yeah, it's
probably should be for enterprises.

00:25:04.566 --> 00:25:07.386
And he's like, okay, so what is your,
like what are we trying to, like how many

00:25:07.386 --> 00:25:08.946
like calls and sales calls do you have?

00:25:08.946 --> 00:25:10.296
And I'm like, well, we, we don't.

00:25:10.301 --> 00:25:10.716
And he's like.

00:25:11.871 --> 00:25:17.121
Yeah, so you should probably go and find
four and, and get four pilots before YCR.

00:25:17.121 --> 00:25:20.181
So you have pilots with real
companies, with enterprises.

00:25:21.051 --> 00:25:25.281
And I kind of, I thought I, I did
actually that, but then I realized

00:25:25.286 --> 00:25:29.811
that I have practically like four
people interested enough, but not

00:25:29.841 --> 00:25:32.961
actually like, signed anything or like,
not even like agreeing on the price.

00:25:33.201 --> 00:25:37.731
Well, long story short, it ended up
really well we, we closed a few big

00:25:37.731 --> 00:25:43.201
contracts, I actually like, got into
full y like I I, I flew to one guy to

00:25:43.201 --> 00:25:47.031
his like villa in Italy for like one day.

00:25:47.031 --> 00:25:50.211
And it was actually ended up being a
lot of partying and then like next day,

00:25:50.631 --> 00:25:55.461
fortunately we, we got all him and I
well, we both like woke up actually

00:25:55.461 --> 00:25:58.371
early, so we actually have like 20
minutes to discuss the business.

00:25:58.731 --> 00:26:01.901
We did some kind of like handshake
agreement that they're gonna

00:26:01.901 --> 00:26:05.471
become our customers and yeah,
by demo day we basically like.

00:26:05.921 --> 00:26:11.051
Had like, nothing much changed, but we
just had more customers and like more kind

00:26:11.051 --> 00:26:13.061
of idea that, that it should be working.

00:26:13.061 --> 00:26:18.002
So by our demo day, we
already had like 400 450 KARR.

00:26:18.341 --> 00:26:21.101
Which, which isn't actually
honestly that, that good.

00:26:21.101 --> 00:26:21.881
If anyone listen to me.

00:26:21.881 --> 00:26:25.481
It's really good if you have that
after you, like just started yc.

00:26:25.811 --> 00:26:28.751
But if your company already exists for
quite a while, that's also like, I don't

00:26:28.751 --> 00:26:30.761
know if, if that's a good result or not.

00:26:31.241 --> 00:26:34.841
But then basically we got
we got great investors.

00:26:34.841 --> 00:26:39.551
Like we, I spent fundraising like two days
actually, that's one of the magic of yc.

00:26:40.511 --> 00:26:45.101
And yeah, we got, we got, we, we got
a small round that we just needed

00:26:45.341 --> 00:26:46.991
really fast and get back to work.

00:26:47.231 --> 00:26:52.361
And I think we kind of,
I'd say, didn't do that.

00:26:53.591 --> 00:26:56.861
I think what we should have done,
we, we didn't, we didn't do that.

00:26:57.101 --> 00:27:03.011
And so the 2023 was somewhat like
us being like adding more customers,

00:27:03.011 --> 00:27:07.961
but struggling to find like, where
is the market, where is the product?

00:27:08.651 --> 00:27:10.121
Product, what is the problem?

00:27:10.121 --> 00:27:11.981
Where is the kind of feed?

00:27:12.881 --> 00:27:14.411
And I think only now.

00:27:14.411 --> 00:27:17.711
So we getting kind of
hell of a year in 2024.

00:27:17.921 --> 00:27:18.221
I think.

00:27:18.221 --> 00:27:21.431
Partially because like largely,
which models got like much more.

00:27:22.316 --> 00:27:26.456
A lot of people right now understand
that like how easy it is to work with tax

00:27:26.696 --> 00:27:29.006
and now they need great sources of data.

00:27:29.126 --> 00:27:32.756
And one thing about us, we got really
lucky 'cause we always doubled down on

00:27:32.756 --> 00:27:37.106
data quality while a lot of competitors
like did on like NLP and stuff.

00:27:37.106 --> 00:27:40.466
And like with large language models,
basically all UNLP is like now,

00:27:40.946 --> 00:27:43.346
like everyone is at the same level.

00:27:43.346 --> 00:27:44.546
You need to start from zero.

00:27:45.386 --> 00:27:46.976
And it got really easy.

00:27:46.976 --> 00:27:51.146
And I think we recently,
like we are hopefully like I.

00:27:51.611 --> 00:27:56.171
Soon gonna end up on like, having
almost already a hundred percent

00:27:56.171 --> 00:27:59.901
growth since the beginning of 2024.

00:28:00.181 --> 00:28:04.411
And I think we, we, at the stage where
I realized that what we should do is

00:28:04.501 --> 00:28:08.791
basically we should do like plenty of
like deployments, more like onboardings.

00:28:09.001 --> 00:28:10.291
We have great data.

00:28:10.576 --> 00:28:13.186
We know that in this data,
there is a lot of value for a

00:28:13.186 --> 00:28:14.716
lot of enterprise customers.

00:28:15.026 --> 00:28:18.986
We know that no one does those like
bespoke kind of integration, well,

00:28:18.991 --> 00:28:21.926
especially big companies that can't
afford it for the same price as we do.

00:28:21.926 --> 00:28:25.886
Even though we charge like six digits,
like, you know, Microsoft engineer

00:28:25.916 --> 00:28:27.266
with like a million dollar salary.

00:28:27.266 --> 00:28:30.836
Like, you never gonna be able to like,
you know, to, to afford the same stuff.

00:28:31.826 --> 00:28:35.506
And so basically what we do is like,
we take our data we take a lot of

00:28:35.506 --> 00:28:38.446
like different LLM based like models.

00:28:38.756 --> 00:28:41.516
We take our customer's data,
which is usually the, the trick

00:28:41.521 --> 00:28:43.976
is like, it's usually like
different from, for each customer.

00:28:44.066 --> 00:28:47.246
And we say like, look, based on
the data you have and the data

00:28:47.246 --> 00:28:50.516
that we have, we're gonna try to
build like a, like a connection.

00:28:50.936 --> 00:28:55.166
Then we will try to make sure that like
our data, like it was really work like.

00:28:55.746 --> 00:28:57.936
In the most like excellent way possible.

00:28:58.146 --> 00:29:02.316
And so you actually can have, can
have something that works really

00:29:02.316 --> 00:29:04.776
great and works really great for you.

00:29:04.781 --> 00:29:09.006
And the thing is like, and it's, and
I don't see other way, like some of

00:29:09.011 --> 00:29:13.536
our competitors trying to build like
kind of NLP and Reach news API and.

00:29:14.046 --> 00:29:17.976
What we hear from our customers, like,
yeah, we try, we try this, but it doesn't

00:29:17.976 --> 00:29:21.336
work because like, yeah, it has a lot
of different tools, but it's, it's

00:29:21.336 --> 00:29:23.226
never enough to like perfectly feed.

00:29:23.706 --> 00:29:26.556
And so we said like, like,
look, just try to believe us.

00:29:26.556 --> 00:29:29.376
We have the more accurate, like
the coolest data that you need.

00:29:29.796 --> 00:29:33.876
And we actually gonna spend a little bit
of time making sure that like we like.

00:29:34.161 --> 00:29:38.031
To do the integration initially
and then it's gonna work.

00:29:38.031 --> 00:29:40.671
And I guess that's our,
that's our plan right now.

00:29:40.671 --> 00:29:44.211
And one of the beauty of this is like,
it actually works really well because

00:29:44.211 --> 00:29:46.731
like, one, we can charge a lot for that.

00:29:48.201 --> 00:29:51.501
And like we can, we, you
know, we can have, I.

00:29:51.501 --> 00:29:54.681
Like this onboarding, we can actually
spend a lot of time and resources to make

00:29:54.681 --> 00:29:57.861
sure that it works, because again, we
need to do it once and then it's like,

00:29:57.861 --> 00:30:01.311
you know, it, it, it, it just working,
doing the same thing with obviously

00:30:01.371 --> 00:30:05.361
doing some kind of like supporting and
maintenance in between, but it works.

00:30:05.691 --> 00:30:09.981
And two, that's like, I think like the
only, like the big superpower that we

00:30:09.981 --> 00:30:12.951
have is that we can invest all those like.

00:30:14.046 --> 00:30:19.686
Custom thing and like a lot of like our
time to actually make those connections.

00:30:19.686 --> 00:30:23.376
And that's one of the things that
like the big companies can do.

00:30:23.376 --> 00:30:27.066
And that's one of the very
few, that's what YC says.

00:30:27.071 --> 00:30:28.176
Like you need to do.

00:30:28.176 --> 00:30:32.016
Like really, you need to make your
customers really, really, really happy

00:30:32.046 --> 00:30:34.146
because you can and no one else can.

00:30:34.386 --> 00:30:36.126
And one of the best thing is like.

00:30:36.486 --> 00:30:40.986
It makes much more sense when you do
like big checks because if you build in

00:30:40.986 --> 00:30:43.776
something that like, technically you'll
have to scale to like, let's say like

00:30:43.776 --> 00:30:48.196
million of users you know, custom, you
still need to like do a lot of like talk

00:30:48.196 --> 00:30:50.326
to your customers e each and every one.

00:30:50.626 --> 00:30:56.056
But it's, it's really hard economically to
do for really long when they pay you five

00:30:56.056 --> 00:31:01.361
bucks or like 50 bucks or 500 bucks and
it's much easier when they pay you half.

00:31:01.411 --> 00:31:05.556
You can, you can extend this like kind
of, you can extend this period of time

00:31:05.556 --> 00:31:09.726
for much, much longer if you, if your
customers pay you much more and like

00:31:09.731 --> 00:31:13.476
continuously learn and any end, we are
at this stage where we're like trying to

00:31:13.481 --> 00:31:15.216
build a lot of those different connectors.

00:31:15.441 --> 00:31:19.821
For a lot of different use cases, but
at some point we, like, it's know every

00:31:19.821 --> 00:31:24.831
additional customer get like, it, it, it
becomes easier and easier for us to do so.

00:31:25.101 --> 00:31:28.251
So hopefully at some point, which
is actually like I, I do this, I

00:31:28.256 --> 00:31:31.101
just recently started to learn about
like Palantir and that's what, like

00:31:31.131 --> 00:31:34.671
Palantir have been doing this for
like 10 plus years and only recently

00:31:34.671 --> 00:31:37.821
they started doing actually products
that kind of like somewhat scalable.

00:31:38.061 --> 00:31:42.501
So I think Palantir is like a
great, great example of like how.

00:31:43.101 --> 00:31:47.211
Given those bespoke integration,
actually can, can still make

00:31:47.216 --> 00:31:50.886
you like, I don't know, like a,
a multi-billion dollar company.

00:31:53.496 --> 00:31:56.576
Mike Bifulco: It is a the economic
match there is really interesting.

00:31:56.576 --> 00:32:00.546
Like the Palantir is a, is a quiet
giant I think for a lot of people.

00:32:00.546 --> 00:32:04.506
Like I, I, I think possibly the audience
of this podcast is, is more familiar with

00:32:04.506 --> 00:32:07.236
Palantir than let's say 95% of the world.

00:32:07.336 --> 00:32:11.176
But the way that businesses like that
grow and become successful has a lot to

00:32:11.176 --> 00:32:15.146
do with their early plans and like the
targets that they, they try and land and.

00:32:15.511 --> 00:32:18.311
Getting, getting your business to a
state where you know, you're growing

00:32:18.311 --> 00:32:21.101
by leaps and bounds is also something
that requires that level of strategy.

00:32:21.101 --> 00:32:24.601
And as what I would imagine is,
is a, a scrappy little company

00:32:24.601 --> 00:32:25.891
in comparison to Palantir.

00:32:25.941 --> 00:32:27.021
There's different ways to do that.

00:32:27.021 --> 00:32:28.991
Definitely a different
ends to those means.

00:32:28.991 --> 00:32:30.281
But it's certainly possible too.

00:32:30.281 --> 00:32:32.861
And, and I think it's a fantastic
story and a really cool thing to see.

00:32:32.861 --> 00:32:36.291
Like, just, just how you've grown from
like you know, a project in your flat

00:32:36.296 --> 00:32:39.881
and, and suffering through learning r
and moving to Dubai and all these things.

00:32:40.656 --> 00:32:44.696
To something that's really a, a growing
and inertia gaining project over the

00:32:44.696 --> 00:32:48.896
years and especially now, I would
imagine being in a season where news

00:32:48.896 --> 00:32:50.246
is going to be more and more important.

00:32:50.306 --> 00:32:54.506
And LLM certainly have gained an
impossible amount of popularity.

00:32:54.566 --> 00:32:56.936
It's probably an interesting
year for you is, is so.

00:32:57.321 --> 00:33:00.021
I should couch this in the fact that
you and I are recording this the morning

00:33:00.021 --> 00:33:04.441
after the very first US presidential
debate which I could not watch last night.

00:33:04.441 --> 00:33:07.461
I just didn't have it in me to turn it
on for, for a million different reasons.

00:33:07.461 --> 00:33:10.851
But do you, do you imagine that
the sort of political the, the

00:33:10.856 --> 00:33:14.091
election season in the United States
will ratchet up user base for you?

00:33:14.091 --> 00:33:16.131
Do you think that'll have
an impact on your end users?

00:33:17.426 --> 00:33:19.341
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
I think not really.

00:33:19.491 --> 00:33:22.071
And the reason for that is like, it's
exactly what I was talking about.

00:33:22.071 --> 00:33:26.781
Like our customers, like,
I think such thing as like.

00:33:27.366 --> 00:33:31.146
Like, you know, the presidential
debate is, is usually something

00:33:31.146 --> 00:33:36.546
that like stakeholders, like chiefs
should just read and understand.

00:33:36.546 --> 00:33:38.886
There's like nothing that
much that you should do.

00:33:39.276 --> 00:33:40.296
However, if.

00:33:40.641 --> 00:33:45.771
A company that owes your company money,
has some small news that their branch

00:33:45.771 --> 00:33:49.311
getting closed, that they like, kind
of had a fire or something, or that

00:33:49.311 --> 00:33:55.011
they actually like a five news local
news this year that they are changing.

00:33:55.041 --> 00:34:00.411
The c or that's what you kind of,
that's what is like a, like a, like a

00:34:00.411 --> 00:34:04.221
stuff that people really don't think
about, but then they, but one, but

00:34:04.221 --> 00:34:06.231
one day it like hits back on them and.

00:34:06.686 --> 00:34:09.506
And then they come and see like, okay,
look, every time someone doesn't pay

00:34:09.506 --> 00:34:13.166
us, we actually, so where one bank
says like, they, they don't pay us.

00:34:13.466 --> 00:34:16.346
And we go and check like why this
happened, how could we know this

00:34:16.386 --> 00:34:16.506
Mike Bifulco: Hmm.

00:34:17.276 --> 00:34:18.776
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): And
they go, we go and check the news.

00:34:18.776 --> 00:34:21.746
And we realize that like, okay, probably
if we were reading like the local

00:34:21.746 --> 00:34:26.186
newspapers, we would knew that months
ahead that probably they not doing right.

00:34:26.246 --> 00:34:29.426
And like, and sometimes, sometimes
they're like, and we even give them

00:34:29.426 --> 00:34:34.046
more money when they ask, but like
financial reports were like, fine, but.

00:34:34.686 --> 00:34:38.706
Financial reports are not something you
get on like every day and like, you know,

00:34:39.096 --> 00:34:43.896
probably if, like, yeah, if, if if company
changes management like really frequently,

00:34:43.896 --> 00:34:48.546
maybe there is like, something wrong
with it or, or like, all of those facts.

00:34:48.546 --> 00:34:51.066
So like all of those things
like, it, it can like, you know.

00:34:52.376 --> 00:34:56.696
It's not probably like going to be
like a billion dollar change for each

00:34:56.696 --> 00:35:01.406
company, but there is a lot of those
small, small little things that can

00:35:01.411 --> 00:35:07.586
be, that can be captured and like
you honestly like missing those or.

00:35:08.346 --> 00:35:12.306
Directly, or like indirectly can, can
cost like tens of millions of dollars

00:35:12.306 --> 00:35:15.126
for, for per department of big companies.

00:35:15.126 --> 00:35:17.976
And that's kind of where we're
trying to, where we're trying, but

00:35:17.976 --> 00:35:20.406
obviously like there's always gonna
be like people trying to build like

00:35:20.436 --> 00:35:24.666
news, website coverage, comparisons,
sentiment or, or Trump and Biden.

00:35:24.946 --> 00:35:28.036
And it never, and it never kind
of like, it never monetizes

00:35:28.041 --> 00:35:28.996
into anything I feel like.

00:35:29.396 --> 00:35:32.546
But yeah, so we are like trying
to do a little bit more like.

00:35:33.626 --> 00:35:34.976
Not mainstream stuff.

00:35:34.976 --> 00:35:39.626
And that's why I say like, you know, some
companies think that they follow news

00:35:39.626 --> 00:35:43.406
while invalidate, they follow like the
biggest news that everyone follows, but

00:35:43.406 --> 00:35:47.846
they don't really follow news that can
affect their business in a day to day.

00:35:48.641 --> 00:35:49.211
Mike Bifulco: Of course.

00:35:49.211 --> 00:35:52.511
And for you, having, having this
strategy must have a leveling effect

00:35:52.851 --> 00:35:56.086
where seasonality is not something that
you have to deal with quite as much.

00:35:56.086 --> 00:35:59.556
And from, from a founder's perspective,
it's nice to have predictability and

00:35:59.556 --> 00:36:02.176
growth and stability maybe in, in ups and

00:36:02.191 --> 00:36:02.551
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah.

00:36:02.821 --> 00:36:03.001
Yeah.

00:36:03.001 --> 00:36:06.361
And that's, that's, that's another
really nice thing about like enterprises

00:36:06.366 --> 00:36:07.771
and like doing deep integration.

00:36:07.801 --> 00:36:12.691
'cause like, honestly, if we succeed
and if it works, I don't know what has

00:36:12.691 --> 00:36:17.311
to happen for, for them to like go to
someone else or like to do something else.

00:36:17.311 --> 00:36:21.721
'cause like, even like, because then
even just to change it to someone,

00:36:21.721 --> 00:36:23.491
it is like already gonna be like a.

00:36:24.001 --> 00:36:26.791
Like maybe a half a million investment
for company, like in terms of

00:36:26.791 --> 00:36:28.741
like salaries and change and all.

00:36:28.741 --> 00:36:32.971
They, they will like customers, if you
do something that fits like a glove

00:36:33.481 --> 00:36:36.481
and it works for them, customers,
like they're gonna stick with you.

00:36:36.481 --> 00:36:40.951
Like your LTV is gonna be like huge
because like, unless they, unless

00:36:40.951 --> 00:36:44.581
it doesn't bring them real value
or unless they kind of run out of

00:36:44.581 --> 00:36:48.781
business, run out of money, you are
kind of like you are married forever.

00:36:49.366 --> 00:36:50.536
Mike Bifulco: Yeah, no doubt.

00:36:50.566 --> 00:36:50.896
Yeah.

00:36:51.346 --> 00:36:51.556
Okay.

00:36:51.556 --> 00:36:53.266
So let's, let's jump into
the nitty gritty of it.

00:36:53.266 --> 00:36:55.726
Tell me about the, your, your tech stack.

00:36:55.726 --> 00:37:00.846
Like the API developers are, are
thirsty for nerdy details at this point.

00:37:00.846 --> 00:37:04.731
So tell me what how you've built news
catcher in the the bits and pieces

00:37:04.731 --> 00:37:06.216
you've tied together to make it all work.

00:37:06.891 --> 00:37:07.401
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Okay.

00:37:08.091 --> 00:37:08.751
That's funny.

00:37:08.781 --> 00:37:14.931
So long story short, we
have everything is like.

00:37:15.651 --> 00:37:18.411
Deployed in the, on-prem on Kubernetes.

00:37:19.311 --> 00:37:20.121
Mostly.

00:37:20.121 --> 00:37:23.301
One thing I wanna say is like, it's
not something really you should

00:37:23.421 --> 00:37:26.301
worry about is, especially when
you're like a small startup, you,

00:37:26.526 --> 00:37:29.571
you have to start as fast as you can.

00:37:29.576 --> 00:37:32.421
And that's why we started
with AWS and Lambda function.

00:37:32.426 --> 00:37:37.821
But then one thing we found out
is like, if we get, like, if for,

00:37:37.821 --> 00:37:40.551
for whatever reason, you know,
we are like a small customer to

00:37:41.091 --> 00:37:43.131
or GCP or anyone else, if we get.

00:37:43.461 --> 00:37:44.511
Kicked out of them.

00:37:45.321 --> 00:37:47.901
Not only are we gonna have a problem
that like we just need to find other

00:37:47.901 --> 00:37:54.411
servers, but also gonna get bounded to
like, like proprietary like services.

00:37:54.441 --> 00:37:56.661
And it's sometimes really
hard to like change those.

00:37:56.931 --> 00:37:59.631
So we said like, look, we're gonna do
everything open source, everything's

00:37:59.636 --> 00:38:00.921
gonna be infrastructure as a code.

00:38:01.251 --> 00:38:04.881
And you know, if something happens or like
we need to scale, we can just like deploy

00:38:04.881 --> 00:38:09.171
the same kind of stuff on other clusters,
on other, like on other hardware.

00:38:09.531 --> 00:38:10.461
And that's what we do.

00:38:10.671 --> 00:38:14.641
So it's all Kubernetes and like a
lot of dockers a lot of different

00:38:14.761 --> 00:38:17.341
microservices, I assume that
like, are connected together.

00:38:17.761 --> 00:38:21.421
And our main stack is like Python
MQ for like event processing.

00:38:21.871 --> 00:38:24.751
Elasticsearch for indexing the data.

00:38:25.141 --> 00:38:28.111
And to be fairly honest, there's
probably like 50 other different

00:38:28.111 --> 00:38:29.131
technologies, but they like.

00:38:29.731 --> 00:38:29.971
Small

00:38:30.076 --> 00:38:30.976
Mike Bifulco: That makes sense.

00:38:31.201 --> 00:38:33.901
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Like
fast API and, and we do, you know, like

00:38:33.901 --> 00:38:39.781
a lot of right now, like basic LLM,
we've like fine tuned, we fine tune

00:38:39.831 --> 00:38:42.051
like mis trial seven B for example.

00:38:42.151 --> 00:38:45.721
Actually one, one thing I would, I
would, okay, we know their customers.

00:38:45.726 --> 00:38:47.401
I think we're using their open
source service, but I think

00:38:47.401 --> 00:38:48.571
they're really great company.

00:38:48.881 --> 00:38:51.341
Open, open pipe by.

00:38:53.351 --> 00:38:56.491
It's a great company
for help you fine tune

00:38:56.511 --> 00:38:56.811
Mike Bifulco: cool.

00:38:56.811 --> 00:38:57.081
Open

00:38:57.246 --> 00:38:57.336
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): yeah.

00:38:58.056 --> 00:38:58.566
Open pipe.

00:38:58.776 --> 00:38:58.986
Yeah.

00:38:58.986 --> 00:38:59.316
Yeah.

00:38:59.556 --> 00:39:03.216
I think the guy, the founder,
he's actually an ex y Combinator.

00:39:03.706 --> 00:39:06.166
He's an ex XY Combinator
software engineer.

00:39:06.666 --> 00:39:06.676
Yeah.

00:39:06.676 --> 00:39:08.911
Oh, he has a, basically a great lending.

00:39:08.916 --> 00:39:10.261
He has a great lending page.

00:39:10.261 --> 00:39:14.581
It, it has some great ROI numbers,
25 times cheaper than Gvd four.

00:39:14.836 --> 00:39:19.396
5 million to start and $17 million
saved by our customers this year.

00:39:19.396 --> 00:39:20.626
That's a great, great, great.

00:39:20.926 --> 00:39:21.856
Mike Bifulco: That's a solid pitch.

00:39:22.336 --> 00:39:23.447
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
So to be That's what I like.

00:39:23.447 --> 00:39:25.546
I, I like people like trying
to understand the value.

00:39:25.996 --> 00:39:26.386
Yeah.

00:39:26.391 --> 00:39:32.336
So we use an open pipe, for example,
for, for fine tuning some stuff and

00:39:32.336 --> 00:39:34.706
yeah, it's, it's all kind of open source.

00:39:34.706 --> 00:39:38.276
No, no kind of proprietary
not much proprietary stuff.

00:39:39.086 --> 00:39:39.416
Mike Bifulco: Okay.

00:39:39.536 --> 00:39:44.036
And tell me about news catcher's
story from a open source perspective.

00:39:44.036 --> 00:39:47.191
Have you, you made any of your software
available for people to peek at?

00:39:48.086 --> 00:39:49.376
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Yeah, we don't really have other

00:39:49.376 --> 00:39:52.616
software available just because
it's not really kind of possible.

00:39:52.886 --> 00:39:53.726
But we have two things.

00:39:53.726 --> 00:39:56.366
I have a few open source project.

00:39:56.366 --> 00:39:59.216
One is actually called New Sketcher,
the one that we done while we are

00:39:59.216 --> 00:40:02.996
just like doing our MVP, which
kind of gives you, and I don't

00:40:02.996 --> 00:40:04.376
maintain either of them by the way.

00:40:04.836 --> 00:40:08.731
So News Sketch and I one py, Google
News, like is basically like a, like

00:40:08.731 --> 00:40:14.031
RSS feed documentation of Google News,
which I had to like hack around myself

00:40:14.031 --> 00:40:15.141
'cause there was like no documentation.

00:40:15.141 --> 00:40:18.561
So basically Google News has r ss feed
and it doesn't have documentation.

00:40:18.566 --> 00:40:21.831
There's like a lot of parameters that
I had to like, kind of deduct and try

00:40:21.831 --> 00:40:26.091
to like, just hard, like try one after
another one to see what is actually

00:40:26.091 --> 00:40:27.441
exists, what works, what doesn't work.

00:40:28.071 --> 00:40:32.176
And another thing, we actually
have free access for researchers.

00:40:33.016 --> 00:40:35.656
We have a bunch of research papers.

00:40:35.686 --> 00:40:38.476
I think the most interesting is
one of the recent one by Berkeley

00:40:38.786 --> 00:40:43.946
where they see how well LLM can
forecast the future using like news.

00:40:44.486 --> 00:40:46.616
And they use our, our API there.

00:40:47.846 --> 00:40:49.466
So that's like an interesting one.

00:40:49.471 --> 00:40:54.206
So yeah, if you are like a researcher,
if you're a student and you wanna mess

00:40:54.206 --> 00:40:58.646
around with like news and that's going
to be your research, just go to us.

00:40:58.646 --> 00:41:02.666
We have free access for researchers and
we are really proud that we, that we do

00:41:02.666 --> 00:41:07.316
that and like, yeah, we, for example,
also help to big nonprofit organizations,

00:41:07.316 --> 00:41:13.586
NGOs, like we should, I dunno, like, so
we sign that we have like, we're gonna

00:41:13.591 --> 00:41:19.601
help Transparency International, catching
all the news coverage about corruption

00:41:19.661 --> 00:41:21.776
and briberies and stuff like that.

00:41:22.046 --> 00:41:25.316
So there's like a lot of
cool stuff we do for free.

00:41:25.836 --> 00:41:26.496
Mike Bifulco: I love that.

00:41:27.031 --> 00:41:31.016
I think it's really an important thing
to have some access to folks who can

00:41:31.016 --> 00:41:33.996
benefit from your product, who never
could afford it, and that it speaks a

00:41:33.996 --> 00:41:36.306
lot to what you've built and certainly
the value that you've provided for

00:41:36.306 --> 00:41:38.946
your customers that you can, you know,
in some way subsidize people who are

00:41:38.951 --> 00:41:40.266
doing research and things like that.

00:41:40.626 --> 00:41:43.926
Artem, I'll make sure to, to reach
out to you and grab links to the

00:41:43.926 --> 00:41:45.036
research papers that you mentioned.

00:41:45.066 --> 00:41:47.946
'cause I think that'd be something that'd
be one fascinating to read through and

00:41:47.946 --> 00:41:49.506
I'm sure listeners would like to get to.

00:41:49.796 --> 00:41:52.136
But I think it may also give some
indication for some of the folks who

00:41:52.141 --> 00:41:55.951
listen the sorts of projects that might
be interesting for people to pursue if

00:41:55.951 --> 00:41:59.921
they're looking at news catcher or if they
might be a good fit as a user of yours.

00:41:59.971 --> 00:42:00.961
I'm curious then.

00:42:01.816 --> 00:42:04.996
For the folks in the audience listening,
how would they know that news catcher

00:42:04.996 --> 00:42:08.296
might be something that they should
explore as a use case for their company?

00:42:08.716 --> 00:42:10.366
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Gosh, that's a, that's a great, that's

00:42:10.366 --> 00:42:14.991
a great thing to, that we actually
don't know answer yet really well.

00:42:15.131 --> 00:42:20.926
But, so globally, what I say is like is,
is every industry has really different

00:42:20.926 --> 00:42:25.396
things like, some industries have to like
do adverse media checks, for example.

00:42:25.396 --> 00:42:27.886
You know, like you open a bank
account, they probably need to run

00:42:28.396 --> 00:42:29.926
like an adverse, like check that.

00:42:29.986 --> 00:42:34.336
Like there's no news about you doing
like, I don't know what, but, and there

00:42:34.341 --> 00:42:39.526
are some companies that just like can
benefit and sometimes they just like don't

00:42:39.526 --> 00:42:43.576
know what they like, it, it just like,
they use too much manual time for that.

00:42:43.576 --> 00:42:46.426
So what usually I try to say
to everyone is like, look,

00:42:46.966 --> 00:42:48.136
if there is, like if you can.

00:42:48.195 --> 00:42:52.155
If there are any news that are happening
either locally or globally or in other

00:42:52.155 --> 00:42:56.925
countries, whatever it is on your
industry that you, you know, like your

00:42:56.925 --> 00:42:59.535
business can directly benefit from.

00:43:00.025 --> 00:43:03.295
For example, I don't know, like we have
companies who like sales intelligence,

00:43:03.295 --> 00:43:07.915
they say like, like, look, we just need to
know where, when our customers raise more

00:43:07.915 --> 00:43:13.555
money, open new business or something like
that, and they say, we do it manually.

00:43:13.555 --> 00:43:14.755
We lose a lot of time on this.

00:43:15.580 --> 00:43:20.890
As long as you can like articulate clearly
what kind of news you have and like, as

00:43:20.890 --> 00:43:24.190
long as you can say like what kind of
answers you need from each news article,

00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:29.270
we basically gonna make sure that you kind
of receive those at the right kind of,

00:43:29.780 --> 00:43:31.160
at the right time, at the right place.

00:43:31.165 --> 00:43:34.340
And a lot of people just
like don't know how.

00:43:35.585 --> 00:43:36.365
A lot of stuff is possible.

00:43:36.365 --> 00:43:40.205
Like even one, one of my latest
discoveries, like, like financial like,

00:43:40.205 --> 00:43:42.095
or like where people invest money.

00:43:42.575 --> 00:43:45.485
We have customer right now with like
private equity in real estate and

00:43:45.485 --> 00:43:46.830
they wanna know if there's like any.

00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.900
Transport, public transportation
infrastructure expansion going like,

00:43:50.900 --> 00:43:53.630
if, you know, like, if there's like
a bus station opening somewhere,

00:43:53.630 --> 00:43:56.970
like the prices of the multifamily
apartments gonna go up there.

00:43:56.970 --> 00:43:57.870
So they want to know that.

00:43:57.870 --> 00:44:00.600
And there's like hundreds of those
news, like every day, for example,

00:44:01.020 --> 00:44:02.400
or like a financial institution.

00:44:02.405 --> 00:44:06.155
They not always invest in Apple
and Microsoft or Palantir.

00:44:06.465 --> 00:44:10.200
Sometimes they buy bonds from like.

00:44:10.605 --> 00:44:14.355
Hospitals and universities and
schools, and they kind of need to

00:44:14.355 --> 00:44:17.985
know local news about the schools,
like if everything is happening there,

00:44:17.985 --> 00:44:19.785
if they're gonna fail on this bond.

00:44:20.115 --> 00:44:24.525
And there's like a lot of those stuff
where kind of, I guess people know that

00:44:24.645 --> 00:44:26.325
like there are news and they just like.

00:44:26.715 --> 00:44:30.195
Don't know how to scale it or they
just never thought that they could do.

00:44:30.495 --> 00:44:34.425
And so we kind of try to help those
that like figure out that there was

00:44:34.425 --> 00:44:37.485
like something in the news that is
like important to their business and

00:44:37.485 --> 00:44:40.575
they come to us and we try to like
make sure that like we integrate it

00:44:40.575 --> 00:44:44.025
like into their existing workforce,
into the systems perfectly.

00:44:44.035 --> 00:44:47.335
.
Mike Bifulco: The summary I'm hearing
perhaps is that if you, if your

00:44:47.335 --> 00:44:49.555
business or your strategy is swayed by.

00:44:50.075 --> 00:44:52.895
Signals in the news and, and
you want to trigger some sort of

00:44:52.895 --> 00:44:56.555
reporting or workflows or decision
making or whatever it may be.

00:44:56.835 --> 00:44:59.590
This is a good use case for plugging
in the news catcher and trying

00:44:59.590 --> 00:45:03.040
to listen to the, the broad swath
of places where news can come

00:45:03.145 --> 00:45:04.585
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Yeah, and I, and I would say, I would

00:45:04.585 --> 00:45:07.045
say like the only thing is like, it
doesn't have to be some, like we work

00:45:07.050 --> 00:45:08.665
with some like Foresight Trends team.

00:45:08.905 --> 00:45:11.935
It can be that, but it's
usually like much, much more.

00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.635
Specific, but which is still for some
kind of, you know, companies is like,

00:45:16.635 --> 00:45:21.140
you know, like a hundred million dollars
line of business that gets like affected

00:45:21.145 --> 00:45:24.650
by small news every day and they just
like do, don't do anything about that.

00:45:24.650 --> 00:45:28.610
And so just by changing this, just
like a slightest beat can, can save

00:45:28.610 --> 00:45:30.170
you millions of dollars every year.

00:45:31.029 --> 00:45:32.739
Mike Bifulco: Well, Artem
thank you so much for joining.

00:45:32.739 --> 00:45:35.769
Before I let you go, I have a couple
of important questions for you.

00:45:35.769 --> 00:45:38.169
First of all, are you hiring, are you
guys looking for anyone at the moment?

00:45:38.434 --> 00:45:40.524
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah,
we kind of always hiring right now.

00:45:40.529 --> 00:45:44.394
So we are looking for, I think right
now we're gonna look for two positions.

00:45:44.794 --> 00:45:47.825
We just hired a first technical like
kind of account executives and we're

00:45:47.825 --> 00:45:50.165
gonna probably look for one more, so I.

00:45:50.464 --> 00:45:54.095
What I'm trying to do, like we do, like I
said, a lot of like bespoke integrations.

00:45:54.095 --> 00:45:56.254
So you need to be
really, really technical.

00:45:56.714 --> 00:46:00.435
You need to, you're not gonna
have a sales engineer with you.

00:46:00.435 --> 00:46:03.045
You are actually gonna have to
understand like how things work.

00:46:03.045 --> 00:46:05.924
You need to understand like customer
problems and try to like come up

00:46:05.924 --> 00:46:08.235
with some smart solutions and things.

00:46:08.235 --> 00:46:13.664
So we are looking for technical account
executive, AKA, the closer, the guy

00:46:13.664 --> 00:46:16.614
who, who actually does the sale.

00:46:17.259 --> 00:46:21.609
And then we probably gonna look
for very first, like LLM AI

00:46:21.609 --> 00:46:24.369
engineer slash data scientist,
I dunno how you call them today.

00:46:24.969 --> 00:46:29.379
We do a lot of like, so basically we do
a bunch of like fine tuning and stuff.

00:46:29.379 --> 00:46:30.669
We do really basic things.

00:46:30.669 --> 00:46:33.309
Surprisingly they work and
probably right now it's the time

00:46:33.309 --> 00:46:35.109
for us to take it more seriously.

00:46:35.649 --> 00:46:41.629
So, I don't know if you are
passionate about AI and LLMs, we

00:46:41.629 --> 00:46:45.399
know, I cannot promise you like
a million dollar Nvidia cluster.

00:46:45.849 --> 00:46:49.304
, actually, I can promise we're not
gonna have that, but we can deliver

00:46:49.304 --> 00:46:51.924
something like zero to one with just.

00:46:52.729 --> 00:46:57.019
Little resources, but , measure the
output, and just, you know, we have a

00:46:57.019 --> 00:47:00.949
lot of, you know, one thing I learned
is like working with enterprises, really

00:47:00.949 --> 00:47:04.699
few of them actually need this, like
a hundred millisecond latency stuff.

00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:07.099
Some of them can wait
day or like 15 minutes.

00:47:07.429 --> 00:47:11.059
You can do a lot of right now with LMS,
if you have like 15 minutes windows.

00:47:11.359 --> 00:47:15.399
So yeah, we are looking for like,
for a great like AI engineer.

00:47:15.399 --> 00:47:16.779
We don't have those posts together.

00:47:16.779 --> 00:47:19.439
Probably by the time this podcast is live.

00:47:19.829 --> 00:47:21.719
You can, you can kind of apply.

00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:21.989
Yeah.

00:47:21.994 --> 00:47:25.499
We are looking, we are looking for, and
yeah, we mostly, I'm sorry for folks

00:47:25.499 --> 00:47:29.399
in the US who I think like the majority
of the crowd, but we must likely need

00:47:29.404 --> 00:47:33.989
someone to work around the European
time zone as we are all in, in Europe.

00:47:33.989 --> 00:47:34.319
Yeah.

00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:36.139
.
Mike Bifulco: Amazing.

00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:36.859
Artem, of course.

00:47:36.859 --> 00:47:40.089
, I'll throw those in the links to any job
openings you have in the description here.

00:47:40.509 --> 00:47:42.549
The other thing I wanted to ask,
and I don't actually think we've

00:47:42.549 --> 00:47:45.799
said it out loud on the podcast yet
news Catcher, what's your website?

00:47:45.849 --> 00:47:49.269
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Yeah, it's news catcher api.com.

00:47:50.364 --> 00:47:50.724
Mike Bifulco: Love it.

00:47:50.784 --> 00:47:53.964
And where's the best place for
people to find you if they're

00:47:53.994 --> 00:47:54.744
looking to chat with you?

00:47:54.744 --> 00:47:55.044
Artem.

00:47:55.419 --> 00:47:55.659
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO): Yeah.

00:47:55.664 --> 00:47:58.059
If you are ever in Warsaw, Poland.

00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:01.179
Please, like really reach out to me.

00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:05.799
I don't have, like, it's not,
not that many people here I know.

00:48:05.799 --> 00:48:08.559
So I'd be happy to ask you
out for a coffee or something.

00:48:09.429 --> 00:48:09.879
Mike Bifulco: Cool.

00:48:09.939 --> 00:48:10.569
, that's amazing.

00:48:10.569 --> 00:48:13.169
I would hope that people
take you up on that.

00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:14.699
I've heard Warsaw's an amazing place too.

00:48:14.704 --> 00:48:16.079
I'd, I'd love to visit sometime.

00:48:16.609 --> 00:48:18.649
Artem, thanks so much for
joining, . I really appreciate it.

00:48:18.649 --> 00:48:20.784
It's been fantastic chatting with
you and , what an interesting

00:48:20.784 --> 00:48:21.804
product journey you've had.

00:48:22.164 --> 00:48:25.313
Anytime you're you're interested in coming
back on the show, we'd love to have you.

00:48:25.373 --> 00:48:26.273
Thanks so much for joining.

00:48:27.098 --> 00:48:27.758
Artem Bugara (NewsCatcher, CEO):
Thanks a lot.

00:48:27.818 --> 00:48:28.028
Thanks

00:48:28.163 --> 00:48:28.643
Mike Bifulco: All right.

00:48:28.733 --> 00:48:29.243
Take care.