00:00
Hello and welcome to the Gay Man's Coaching podcast with me Keegan Hurst. This is the uh podcast for gay men who want to improve their performance across their physique, their mindset, their career  and their life. And we have an amazing guest today.  One of my  OG clients with GMC. I say GMC, it wasn't even called GMC  when Anthony joined. It wasn't even called PTIQ, which was the previous incarnation. It was just me doing some coaching.

00:29
And really interestingly, I have three clients of my original uh cohort that joined me when I started doing online coaching, because I've done some in-person coaching before that.  And I have three of them. And Anthony is one of them. We've worked together for  over six years now.  And Anthony's journey both,  all physically is incredibly impressive, but more so the identity work. And as you guys know,

00:59
Something that I'm really passionate about is the identity work that we do. Not just at GMC, but that people do in general because everything else is downstream of that. How you behave, how you speak, how you act, how you see people, the way you interpret things. It's all done through the lens of your identity. And I remember when me and Anthony first started working together, there were so many things that he said he would never do, couldn't do, that would never be him.

01:29
Things like solo travel, things like being out at work, things like being an advocate at work, things like uh changing job, improving his career,  changing his friendship circle. So many things that he said he didn't feel like he was able to do that he's done  over the last few years. And that's because he's,  not only because he's put the work in, because I'm sure we all appreciate that we all have to take action to make changes.

01:57
But the most important thing before any of that can take place is that you have to be willing to  give something a look from a different angle, a different perspective,  an opportunity for it to become  something.  And often it takes us being around other people who are doing similar things or having people in our lives who  give us the space to be able to do that. That's something that I think happened for a lot of people when we did  our

02:27
retreat last year.  We've got our retreat coming up next month. It's just two weeks,  just a couple of weeks away.  Down in Cornwall  with Josh and Anthony who run it, breath work, yoga, exercising out in nature, spending time together, private chef. Let me tell you, the food is amazing.  If you are on the fence about coming to that, if you are feeling a little bit stuck, feeling a little bit like you're going around in circles and you're looking for  something that is going to shift your perspective and how you see things.

02:57
get yourself to that route retreat. I guarantee it will be the best investment that you make in yourself this year. But  aside from that, let me uh introduce Anthony Dunford, who's one of my longest standing clients, someone who I will consider a friend  and just a great, great man. So here we go with Anthony.

03:21
So here we are with Anthony Dunford. Anthony, thank you for coming on the GMC podcast. Appreciate it. Do you just want to do as a little bit of an introduction? uh Yeah, I'm Anthony. I'm 53 sliding towards 54. I'm a teacher. from the North of England.  I've been in GMC for  quite a while. Quite a while. Are we on six years yet?

03:51
uh Yeah we are.  Yeah yeah.  would have been 2019 wouldn't it? would have been. Yeah you didn't send flowers.  Yeah I forgot. Yeah I  am,  Anthony is  one of one of our longest standing clients um and he's been  with me since basically the beginning since before GMC was called GMC and

04:20
He has seen the evolution  of Game Man's coaching, of the service, I guess,  of me as a coach as well,  as well as going through  his own transformation. So I want to talk to Anthony a bit about his experience and how  GMC has helped him. But I also thought it'd be really cool to get an insight from Anthony about how GMC has changed and how...

04:48
He's  as someone who's been in it on the client side of things. So, Antonio, let's rewind to 2019 when we first started working together. Just paint us a picture of  where you were at, how life was. um It was,  thinking back,  one of the things  was I'd been a teacher for  over 20 years at that point. I'd only ever really taught and  I was in

05:18
the same school I'd always been in.  So I'd been there a long time.  My boss had just left. A new boss was coming in. And I was starting to feel things were, I was going to get swept away. uh You know, the career had stalled.  My mum had started with  dementia as well.  I've got a brother and sister, but they live down south.  And so I was sort of starting to take responsibility there.

05:48
Which was difficult. I mean, that's difficult organization. It was difficult emotionally.  That was that was really hard because I live about  an hour and a half away from them.  So there was a lot of  a lot of that was going on.  I was.  Yeah, I was I was still in the closet. I, you know, I hadn't I was, whereas I'd sort of tried to come out to friends.  It was  difficult and I hadn't really.

06:18
made a good effort with that.  And so I was  I was starting as well to think  my experiences in my job were, you know, I was a terrible role model. wasn't I wasn't being there for the students. I wasn't the right,  you know,  they needed something better from me than I was able to give them.  And then the real  this sounds terrible. I've said this before, but the thing that pushed me  most

06:48
over the edge, I suppose, was that I paid off my mortgage. And that that sounds like it's a really positive thing. But that afternoon, I got a letter from the bank and it was just a cold, gray October afternoon. And it just felt like the end of that was it, you know, what 25 years and what had you done? Was that it? You know, you open this envelope and there's no there's no explosion of glitter. There's nobody there. So who?

07:14
It's just that line from Death of a Salesman about 25 years to pay off the house and nobody to live in it. It just felt like everything was sort of closing in and coming to an end. the to me, it was just I was going to know that was it. was just going to sit on the sofa for the next 30 years. And then cut to you. You joined GMC. You've been with James. You're a GMC Hall of Famer.

07:42
you are a big part of the community. Like from my side of things, I don't know if this will make you squirm, but you your physical, mental, and transformation has been nothing short of incredible. I mean, just you've kind of painted as a pretty bleak picture of where you were at, you know, in 2019. Paint as a picture of where you're at now. What's different? Yeah, I'm happier, I'm more confident.

08:13
The other thing that  I  got a new job  after 30 years in the same school, I got a new job. got a promotion um to a senior teacher in a sixth form college dream, absolute dream job, something I never thought possible. um And in my leaving speech. m

08:38
My friend had written a leaving speech. We've known each other for 30 years. We talked together. And she wrote my leaving speech. And she said,  one of the lines was, he's the only person who's got better looking as he's got older.  It just stuck with me because I did it.  One of the many changes, I just start getting a bit more interested in the way I dress and make myself look smart, being a better role model.

09:07
I still have a slightly  awkward relationship, I suppose, with being gay,  I'm much happier in own skin. I'm much, I am open.  I wear a Pirate Pride  pin badge. I've just got a  just got a new Pride pin badge which says, hello, I'm super gay. Which  is, you  know, I think that's been like  a theme  of our coaching relationship and your.

09:35
challenges and this is not exclusive to you. I think it's something that a lot of people, I always remember a conversation that I had with somebody who joined GMC years ago and they said, would be the reason that I would fail at this? And the answer came to me straight away and I said,  without sounding horrible, it's you.  It's you getting in your own way. It's  overcoming limiting beliefs that we instill and I know.

10:03
Like when we started working together, it was, can't run this distance. And then it was, can never get a different job and I can't ever look like that. I can't, and you have overcome those. I know we've been in your corner and we've helped you, but you have done the work and you've overcome those. And you have, I remember challenging you a couple of years ago and said, I feel like we've stalled a little bit here. And you came back with an amazing line that I've never forgotten was,

10:32
I thought because that was the best that I've been, it was the best that I could be. That you'd hit that ceiling and that was as good as it got. And I think once you kind of got past that, then you've gone on to challenge yourself at work, outside of work, being a role model, even stuff that you used to say, oh, it doesn't matter, I'm not bothered about how I dress, I'm bothered about how I'm perceived. And I think that was indicative of where you were in the headspace at the time.

11:00
I think it would be remiss of us to just  say six years has passed and Amelie has an amazing life and that's that. What have been some of the things that have allowed you to  build that new version of you  and the kind of daily, weekly, regular habits that  have helped you make that transformation?  lots. I  think  because I've...

11:29
I mean, we started when it was really small, wasn't it?  sometimes there was just two of us on the weekly calls. Yeah. Then I think I felt a sense of duty. Do know what it was actually? It comes from when I first contact you, it was just sort of on a whim and it was about em getting a sort of you know, you're offering a free exercise plan or something. And then suddenly you said, right, we'll have an interview. I'll interview you on the phone.  It's like, what?

11:57
You're to do what? said, oh, this is a bit serious. I've got to take this a bit more seriously. that just made me start to sort of, oh, well, I may as well throw everything at it then. then it became, it just became a change of identity that I suddenly became a person who did measure what food they were eating. But I did get.

12:28
10,000 steps in that I did  get to the gym and try and log things accurately and all those  sorts of things.  And  it was just that sense that,  oh, I should take this seriously if I want to make something of it, if I'm genuinely serious about making that change, I need to make something, I need to take it seriously and not be  sort of flippant about things. So it  became a...

12:54
a thing to make sure I did that seriously and  make sure it was there. I think that's such an important point about  you have to be deliberate if you want change you have to be deliberate is the word I've actually written down a few words in front of me which are my kind of words for the year and one of them is deliberate to make sure that when I do things it's not passive because so many people

13:22
find themselves in the position that they're in, not because they're lazy or they're unmotivated, it's because they're passive and they let things happen.  And then when you start being deliberate and you start taking action, like, you know, whether that's reaching out, whether that's logging things, whether that's coming to the calls, even when there was only a couple of us on back in the day,  or even like the events,  because I know that you were a little bit cagey about the community side of things and coming to the events and it was pushing you out of your comfort zone.

13:50
Talk about that, because I think that's been a big part of your growth is that you've always been willing to push yourself out of your comfort zone. And I know the in-person events that we do at GMC have been a part of that for you. And I know you've been  to many over the years now. So talk us a little bit through how that was then and how it's helped. We did one in London, didn't we? And I remember going into the room and sort of scanning the room and finding, this is just so ridiculous, but finding a seat.

14:20
that I couldn't get near the door in case I needed to get out. So I thought, all right, there's one by the window there. And then if need to be, this is genuine, it sounds so ridiculous, but I just thought, I can flip the chair backwards, dash out through the window, off the window sill and be away before anybody sees me. I don't know what I thought anybody was going to do, but it was a genuine, a genuine, I need an escape just in case. And I still find crowds.

14:49
or large gatherings difficult, but m I think I've got into the habit now. know that  going to a GMC event is just full of people who are pleased to see you,  endlessly pleased to see you, no matter how many times.  There are,  you know,  there's a number of people who know that  when I've reached my limits,  I think that's an interesting point actually about GMC is that  you also

15:18
You know, when your limits have been reached and I know that once I've done, you know, I've done the day, sometimes the evening going out to a bar, I just can't do that. I can't. It just makes me too tense. can't. I don't. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think that is a that is a that is a part that enables me to enjoy, enjoy the day more and get the most out of the day, because I'm not worrying that, you know, I need to I need to do that to make myself feel like I've learned properly. can.

15:48
I can get the most out of it. I get more out of the socials that way. Yeah, I think  Andy,  another client of GMC has said before that GMC is like the room of requirements. You can take what you need as and when you need it. It's like a buffet, right? You don't need to do everything. You  can take and pick what you need when you need it. And that's going to change as your evolution progresses. You're going to need different things at different times.

16:18
I think I had to realise that I could go into room and people would be pleased to see me. And people in GMC are just so endlessly pleased to see everybody else in GMC that that wasn't something maybe maybe as a teacher, you know, everybody's pleased to see you. But that was something I had to learn about GMC that you can go into it, you know, you can go into a room, you can call it. Everybody is pleased to see you. There's no

16:45
you know,  I've never experienced any kind of undercurrent. Everybody's just happy that you're there. Yeah,  I think that's a really interesting point there about you have to recalibrate your own expectations of what life is and what life can be as you evolve and as you grow.  What if we were to  speak to Anthony from six years ago and we were to ask him what he doesn't recognize?

17:14
what he thinks  of the new Anthony, of you now sitting here on this call, what would he say is different or what would he not recognize or  what would stand out to him? Ooh, he certainly won't recognize the suit.  think,  well, I mean, that's  flippin', but actually he wouldn't recognize the fact that I was in a different job, doing a completely different role.

17:43
the very thought of me being senior management because I did a short stint as senior management in my old job as well. And that was something that was something I remember speaking to you, sort of speaking to you about it and  taking that opportunity.  He would never have seen himself as somebody who could do that.  And what has changed internally for you, for you to now do that and love it as well?

18:12
Not only do it, but love it.

18:17
On the interview I had for the job I've got now, I remember going, I'd done, I'd done, I just had the big interview left to do. done the student panels. I'd done all those sorts of things. Now can talk to students. I can do a lesson. I can go into a classroom and talk about literature endlessly. But I had the interview to do and the interview were the things that.

18:44
six years ago, I wouldn't have thought were the things that I could do. So the management side of things, the analysis of data and all that sort of thing. I remember going into the bathroom just before the interview and just having to look at myself in the face and say, you deserve this, you can do it. And you're going to and I did. I was so big headed to say I smashed the interview, but I did smash the interview. did.

19:10
I took off my, I literally, I was so embarrassed. I took off my jacket, rolled up my sleeves and just  did the interview and did it, did it properly and did it well.  The presentation and the chat.  And  I think 60 years ago, I'd never have  seen myself push myself out of  the comfort zone that way. Do know what as well? Six years ago, I don't think I would have ever heard you say the words, I deserve this as well. So that it's funny how

19:40
when we start to look after ourself, our self-respect  grows massively and we appreciate what we deserve and  what we won't put up with. And this is why boundaries is such a big thing that we always come up with when we work with you guys is because you start to think, actually, I'm not going to put up with that anymore. I'm not going to go without that or not do that or do do that or whatever it may be. From  your experience as someone who's been in the trenches at GMC, talk us through

20:10
how GMC has grown for some of our newer guys or maybe guys who are listening to this who are not part of GMC. What is different with GMC now to five years ago? I'd say, well, I was gonna say everything in the sense that there's more of it. is more information, there are more events, there's more opportunities to get involved.

20:39
and get yourself out of there. I think the heart of it has stayed the same. I don't want this to become a loving keen, but that is you, isn't it? That is the driving force. And I think that that.

20:54
sense that you have of choosing people very well, like John and the coaches and so on has  stayed constant so that the  sort of the feeling of it is the same.  the professionalism perhaps,  I don't suggest that you are unprofessional,  but  you know,  the quality of the content, the  way to become more wide ranging the content as well. we've, you you branched out into

21:24
lifestyle and  all those sorts of things. And then we've got  the in-person events are  just amazing, they? uh You always come away from them energized and excited and thinking about what you can do. And  they're a big part of what's kept me  going over the years. So I think that sense of growth, with a stable

21:53
element running through through the middle of it really. Yeah I think this yeah I think you're right like the scope  has changed. I think something that I've learned as a coach and as a business owner is I know this sounds really obvious but nothing stays the same you know the world changes, technology changes, people's needs change, people are everything is in a constant state of flux and you have to be

22:22
willing to  roll, you have to be able to roll with the punches and  give the people what they need but want of a better phrase. And I think, you know,  I am passionate about being,  feeling like a person first thing, it'd be so easy for us to just flood it,  GMC with loads of numbers and it become a numbers game.  But, you know, I think it is important to be able to have that connection and that we have.

22:49
You've mentioned the events in the community a few times and I think that, I know you've said I'm the driving force behind it, but I think that the community is  the GMC's secret power.  What would be your advice to people who, because sometimes you get people who come in, or you uh see people on the sidelines and they go,  I'd like to, but I'm not really a community person or I'm not really, that's not really been me.

23:19
Because I know you were kind of like that and I know you've said that you take what need when you want but you're like...  definitely wouldn't have you down as that now. So what would you say to someone who kind of had that outlook who was maybe a little bit skeptical or was a little bit apprehensive?  Because like what are some of the benefits that you've taken away from the community?  Well, inspiration for one.  You know, you see people with the most...

23:49
amazing stories, people who've been through proper struggles and you've come through the other side. So the inspiration side of things is really, really important. I think that's key because then if they can do it, so can I. It's that kind of point. I've lost myself there.

24:16
uh Just some benefits that you've taken from it. Yeah,  think I mean what I'd say to somebody if you're skeptical is slightly different.  I think if you're skeptical you need to get yourself on and speak to people because there aren't any skeptics in in GMC. People are honest and people are  out there and people wear their hearts on their sleeve, which  I  am a big skeptic about everything.

24:44
Yeah, I cloak everything in irony. mean, it's one of the coping mechanisms that  I still have from being closeted, I suppose.  You distance yourself.  But people in GMC have helped me become a lot more honest and lot more open.  And  I think if you're skeptical, you need to get in there because there aren't any skeptics in GMC. There genuinely aren't. And  I think  if you're apprehensive, again,

25:15
I found that there's  absolutely no need to be. You can be as vulnerable or as  reserved as you like, and people will respect you for it. I  think the more that you always say there shouldn't be anybody on the sidelines. And if you start on the sidelines, you can move yourself in and ease yourself in and take the step where you can start posting and where you can start  sharing.  And you will find that support. There won't be anybody who will. um

25:43
who will argue with you, everybody will be utterly supportive. I think it is about... Basically, I my approach was to throw myself into everything and then to see what stuck. And some things didn't stick, but lots did, far more stuck than did. Yeah. I think that's a great point about the community and it being...

26:11
Something I always say, the events, it? That there isn't a place where you're going to find that everybody wants you to succeed. uh And I think that that's the beauty about the community. You know, whether you're going through it and you need support, you need encouragement,  you need to soundboard something. You know, there's so many things in there that you can take from um it.  Just to kind of wrap this up because we've... uh

26:41
I think it's important that we keep things nice and grounded and in reality. And it's not like, you know, life is now perfect and everything's amazing. But obviously there's been a stark change and life is a hell of a lot better. What are you, what are some of the things that you maybe still struggle with or what are you working on at the minute? I w well, the thing I don't struggle with is steps. I have a morning routine. My morning routine is great. The evening routine is generally good. Um,

27:11
But I just love going out, getting steps first in the morning, coffee when I come back, crossword and then off to work. um I struggle now.  The biggest struggle actually is that  now I have a longer commute  and I work slightly more regular hours than I did. So time is a bit pressing. So there's been a number of occasions when getting workouts done has been.

27:39
um either impossible or, you know, they've been very brief. They haven't quite been  as thorough as I would have liked. m But that's settling down now. I'm back into new routines and I'm getting into things. And  Pada and I have planned the year. There's a beach holiday planned for August. So there's some getting in proper shape for that. m

28:07
I mean, even that, like that's just made me smile because I remember like back in the day you would just never book a beach holiday. No. Never book a beach holiday.  So if we were to wrap this up here then, if you could talk to Anthony from six years ago,  what would you say to him? What would you say to him? uh Well, if I think about myself sitting on that sofa with the mortgage,

28:36
letter and thinking everything was over. I think I would just say you need to trust in yourself. You need to trust in others that you don't have to be by yourself. You don't have to work your own way out and that you can actually. You might be getting older, but the world is still there for you. There's there's there's new things to be found, whether that's that was work that was, you know.

29:06
going out on holiday, uh meeting new people, doing new things.  There's new challenges to be had. I think all of those things would be something that he,  six years ago, just thought weren't.

29:22
weren't available to him. Yeah, I love that man. I love that. I know we didn't want to turn this into a loving, but I am incredibly proud of you. I know you're incredibly proud of yourself as you should be and you've worked really hard. And I love seeing the growth that you've achieved, the change in your life.

29:47
and long may it continue. So big well done mate. Thank you for sharing with us and thank you for  being so open and so candid.  Guys, if you've enjoyed that, please let us know.  Thank you for listening to the Game Man's Coaching podcast. We'll be back next week.  So in the meantime, look after yourself, stay safe and don't eat and drink and behave at the expense of how you wanna look and feel. And I will see you next week.