Howard Bentham: Hello there, and thanks for tuning in.
I'm Howard Bentham, and this is OxTalks, the podcast powered by OxLEP, the local
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In this edition, we'll discuss building a skilled workforce for our care sector.
We'll also explore the key challenges currently facing this critical area of our
economy and society and discovering what opportunities there are to grow a pipeline
of talent to support that future growth.
Most news headlines around the care sector don't make for happy reading.
The chief executive of the King's Fund, the health sector focused
independent think tank, said in July that the current social care system
in England was not fit for purpose.
The UK as a whole has an ageing population with worsening health outcomes in
direct comparison to so many of our neighbours in the developed world.
A staggering 1.
5 million people work in social care in England, in 1.
2 million full time equivalent roles.
That's on a par with numbers employed in the NHS.
Even more bewildering is the fact, according to the ONS, there are 5.
7 million unpaid carers across the UK who are likely caring for a similar number
of people who cannot manage on their own.
Alongside these numbers, Skills for Care's annual State of the Adult Social
Care Sector and Workforce in England report have the number of unfilled
roles in the care sector standing at 152, 000 in March this year.
That means 1 in 10 social care roles remain vacant.
Commentators say that an extra 440, 000 roles in care will likely be
needed by 2035 to cope with the demand.
Many questions persist, how will the care sector cope now and in the future?
How can staff retention be improved?
Will wages have to rise in an industry not renowned for paying high salaries?
And can immigration solve the sector's problems?
Let's get the view from the sharp end of the industry.
Walfinch is a thriving and very successful company providing
bespoke, high quality care at home to individuals and families across the UK.
They run a franchise model that has won national accolades, being
named best for daycare expertise at the recent Home Care Awards.
I'm delighted to welcome brother and sister Amrit Dhaliwal, Chief Executive
of Walfinch, and Kam Gill, Managing Director at Walfinch Oxfordshire.
Great to talk to you both, and thanks for being our guests on OxTalks.
Amrit, can we start with you?
Tell us about Walfinch and what care services you provide for
elderly and disabled people.
Amrit Dhaliwal: Thank you, it's a real pleasure to be on the show today.
Walfinch is, as you said, a home care company.
We've been providing home care for many years and actually started
building through franchising.
We do everything from an hour a week with somebody, where you might
just be going in and checking in to twenty four hours a day, live
in care, and everything in between.
So, sometimes what you find with home care is that a family member, that
might be the next responsible person, lives really far away and they just need
someone to go and check in on mum and dad.
But then there might be others where you're going in three times a day and
helping with medication, and personal care and so on all the way up to really
complex care packages where you're living with somebody who it might be high
risk to falls and so on so it's a really interesting and very varied industry.
Howard Bentham: And why Oxfordshire as a starting point for Walfinch?
Because you started this, what, 2019, I think?
Amrit Dhaliwal: So I actually started my career in restaurants.
I left university, I read economics and history and I was super panicked
as to what the heck I was going to do next and I ended up doing
some headhunting for a bit in IT.
I have no real interest in either one of those things, actually.
So, did that for eight months and I thought, gosh I'm totally unemployable.
I never want to work for anyone and I hate having people tell me what to do.
So, what do I do?
I'm 22, totally unskilled, and very broke.
So I thought, well okay, let's have a think about this.
What could be the next thing?
Now, well, I've seen the Goodfellas.
I can, I can start a restaurant or a bar.
Next thing you know, I've been able to get involved in this Italian deli
in Richmond, and bought that, had no idea how to make a coffee, didn't
drink wine and the only passes I'd had prior to that point were with curry
from our mum and seems pretty easy.
I ran that for a bit with a few other businesses and actually
it was really interesting.
It was very hard to run a business, but I really enjoyed it and learning about and
hiring the right people to do all of that.
But I felt I had loads to give and my, wife, my then girlfriend is a
dentist and running restaurants, I basically saw her on Sunday or Monday
night and I'm having a chat with her Monday afternoon and I was saying,
look, what do you think I could do?
I'm really keen to do something else and really, basically that it doesn't
involve 90 hours a week and so on.
She said, have you thought about domiciliary care?
And I was probably about 25 at the time, and I thought, what the hell
is that ? It was actually my real response that to her and next thing.
You know, I'm speaking to all the franchisors around the country,
this is back in 2012, and I've bought a franchise in home care.
I got my CQC registration, my Care Quality Commission registration, in November 2012.
But by January or February 2013, I'd already realised
that the market was broken.
Home care and franchising for home care in the UK, in my opinion, was totally archaic
and it was only suitable for people that were from the sector and the world, this
is it, this is where my 20 year mission is to change both those things, redefine
home care, redefine franchising for the sector and so I built my business
from zero, I think we took it to around a million pounds in revenue in a very
different model to what was around we were focused on the private market so we could
pay staff well and not kind of reliant on local authority contracts and so on.
Sold that business, I think, in 2018 and then we started Walfinch in 2019.
and basically have taken, I think, we'll, Get to, about 40 odd locations this
year and some national span and just really trying to change the whole thing,
turn it on its head, make it, more user friendly you know, simple things like
being paperless and leveraging technology, being interested in social media, opening
the industry up to people are not from the sector and thinking about, well, the
gen Z's, how do you attract those guys?
so when I'm putting things out on social media, I'm thinking, are Kam's
sons are interested in this, you know, are they interested in this?
And if they're not interested in this, then I probably haven't
pitched this right, as well.
so it's really, it's been a very fun journey, I must say.
Howard Bentham: And you got your sister involved in this journey.
Kam, let's understand your background as well, because you're a dental...
Kam Gil: Dental technician.
So I graduated as a dental technician.
Howard Bentham: Dentists seem to be like the core of this.
Kam Gil: Just by accident.
so I graduated in 2000, got married six months later and then I had my kids.
I was a housewife for a bit.
I was lived in India, then I moved back to the UK, when the kids were at the
schooling age and, I went into retail.
So, I was running a little paper shop, renovated it, done
it up and that was in Wales.
My kids didn't want to live in Wales, so after four years we
moved back to Buckinghamshire and started working in a dental lab.
Obviously, there was an 11 year gap, I was so behind, everything had changed
since I graduated because it's manual dexterity, you know, I was really out
of touch so it's all a practical thing.
I hadn't been in the loop and it's like new technology and I had no idea.
So anyway, I started at the bottom.
I was there for about four years and not happy, didn't have a great boss and then
one Christmas Eve, you know, we always, stay over at my mum and dad's Christmas
Eve, the whole family together and Amrit just, you know, being Amrit said, do
you fancy supporting this Punjabi lady?
We used to call her auntie and, take her to the temple on a, you know, twice a
week and do a bit of cleaning for her, try it out, see how it goes for a bit So,
Christmas Eve we're doing, you know, he's doing me an application form, I'm doing
paperwork, you know, as you do and on Boxing Day, I've done my e learning and
Boxing Day goes, Oh, do you want to try?
I started doing that twice a week, so I cut a day off at work and I was
working six days a week, two days doing this and four days in the lab.
and then Amrit mentioned, he goes, I'm looking for a recruiter.
Do you want to come on board and do a bit of recruitment?
Just try it for six months and then you can move on and do whatever and here I am
still, so I was doing recruitment, then I moved on doing a bit of coordinating and
then Amrit suggested, oh, you're good at this, why don't you do your level five
and then, uh, 2019 set up Walfinch and...
Howard Bentham: So from trip to the Temple with Auntie, as you describe
it, tell us how the franchise works now, because you are the
franchisee for Walfinch Oxfordshire.
Kam Gil: So I want to focus on more of the day to day stuff and, you know,
making sure that, the carers are getting the support from us and the clients are
getting the best service and I don't want to be bogged down with having to make
sure my policies are updated or have I got the correct contract or whatever and if
I have a problem, I've got to deal with a complaint or anything like that, I've got
the National Support Office that are very responsive and give me the best advice.
So, that is really helpful.
You know, your training is updated, you know, we're having regular calls,
regular newsletters, we have regular training, and the training is fun.
Like, you know, the face to face training where everyone, we share ideas, share
experiences, you know, live in care, you know, so, live in carers, it's
sometimes a bit difficult because, you know, if the carer doesn't have work,
they'll go and join another agency.
So with Walfinch, it's nice where we can, you know, say, right,
I've got a live in carer free.
Anybody, needs, a carer to cover this.
So that way we keep our carers within our company.
Howard Bentham: What sort of size are we talking about in terms of the
number of people you've got on board?
Kam Gil: So, we have about 40 care staff.
So we started with just me in the office and now we've got seven.
So we've got somebody focusing on recruitment, scheduler.
we've got a care manager, we've got, supervisors, we've got an
administrator, so, you know, it's a big team and it's nice
Howard Bentham: And that's caring for how many people, Kam?
Kam Gil: We've got about fifty.
Howard Bentham: Fifty, fifty clients that you're looking after.
Is that, Amrit, typical of the franchisees you've got around
the country, which I think is numbering about 300 now, isn't it?
Amrit Dhaliwal: No, so we are, we'll probably get about 40 locations
by the end of this year I expect.
So what you would find with a typical franchisee is year one, it's building
that team, it's yourself and it's a registered manager, and you're sort
of taking it from there and hiring those first few care workers and so on.
With a business that turns over about a million odd pounds in revenue, you'd
probably be looking at about thirty or so care workers with about one and a
half times that in terms of clients, and that business would probably have a
handful of people in the office as well depending on the type of work that you do.
So, we focus predominantly on private work and that's only
because it makes more sense.
It means that we can pay care workers really well, and we can focus on
all that retention activity that you couldn't necessarily do if
you didn't have the margins there.
So businesses like that would need less management staff as well because they're
less, generally speaking, less critical.
So I'd say that Kam's business is probably slightly bigger than
a lot of general locations, but she has very lean care workers.
In fact, I'd think, normally a business like this might have maybe 60 care
workers, but actually you've got a lot of people that are on full time
contracts and so on, which is also not particularly typical of the sector.
So that's one of the other things to sort of think about, but I think the
average business within the sector will do anywhere between half a million
to a million in revenue and will have anywhere between sort of a third
to double the number of staff that Kam's probably got in her location.
Howard Bentham: Your initial growth is pretty quick, really,
from 2019 to where you are now.
What was the sort of the key driver of that?
Was it, was there something that, that made you grow it that quickly?
Amrit Dhaliwal: It was just finding the right people.
always sort of think that and equally they're terrible at other things.
So if you give me, questions prior to this, I still have yet to read
them, I will at some point, right?
I promise.
But I'm just not sort of that way inclined, whereas what I'll then
do is surround myself with the people that are really good at that.
So, Kam's come here with printed notes, I'm sure, so, uh, you know, so, whereas,
uh, One of the things I have become very good at is finding the right
people to fit the right roles and I think one of the reasons that we have
grown well and at a sensible pace has been that we've been able to surround
ourselves with the right people.
So when our franchise development, we've got someone that's super experienced,
really understands that process and I just, I can give that to somebody and
say, right, okay, you know, I come in right at the end of that journey, and
then say, yay or nay, and we say no a lot actually to franchisees that come
in because for me, I think when you're representing the brand that is really
important and I often look at franchisees and think do I want you providing care
for my mum when the time comes and not, it wouldn't be them directly,
but I think leadership says it all.
The other thing is that, we've done, been able to do the same with our
operations team, who are, phenomenal and probably people that I was slightly
surprised that came on board to work with us at this stage in the journey,
where I would have thought, you know, you, I would expect people like this
at this caliber, sort of six or seven years from now, and so, so that's been
quite a sort of interesting piece, but for me, the biggest thing has been
the fundamental thought process really was always about increasing our span.
So the people that you can impact and touch with that journey.
So when you have one location, you can make tremendous difference to somebody
and initially, I thought, well, okay, I'll just build my own locations and
build out my own businesses and frankly, that's probably more profitable,
certainly in the first five to 10 years, but what I wouldn't have been able to
do if we had done that was I wouldn't have been able to impact as many people
and so, if you go nationally at that point, through franchising, you can
really make tremendous change within the sector, even though we're a small
kind of nail in this massive thing, but we can make change, we can make a mark.
It's much harder to do that as a single location provider.
Howard Bentham: To be successful, you obviously need a ready supply of labour.
You've said it's all about the people, let's talk about building a pipeline
of talent and the solutions that you've come up with at Walfinch.
So it sounds like you've got a great operations team at the back,
you're the ideas guy, you've already said you don't really do detail,
you've got no notes!But you've got the ideas, you've got the vision.
So you've got a good team in place, if you like, centrally and then it's finding
the right people to be franchisees and then obviously it's on the franchisee
to find their right stuff locally.
Amrit Dhaliwal: Absolutely.
Howard Bentham: What about the demand that we're going to have?
We've talked about this, in the introduction, 4 million older people,
40 percent of people age 65 and over at the moment with a limiting
long term illness or disability.
That's expected to rise by 2030 to 6 million people.
How are you going to help meet that demand?
Amrit Dhaliwal: I think there is a lot, that needs to be done within the sector.
I think that we're at a sort of crisis point within the sector.
You can look at that in two different ways.
On the one hand, you can think, Oh my goodness, what a huge panic, or you
can think about it as a tremendously exciting opportunity and that's
shockingly, the way I think about it.
For me, I've got a book coming out, hopefully, by the end of the year
called The Homecare Revolution and really it's a small manual for people
that are looking into the sector and thinking am I interested in this?
And it talks about the problems and talks about possible solutions and it talks
about, headlines on how to manage teams and run a business within the sector.
But if we look ahead, we've got really a two tier system
at the moment within the UK.
You've got the pay to play and if you have the finances to buy private
care, you will get very good quality care throughout the UK, there are
some excellent care providers.
Walfinch is one of them.
But I find it slightly saddening that if you don't have the finances and
you're, waiting on local authority and the government, then invariably and
actually Oxfordshire pays pretty well to home care providers comparatively.
So we have a really clear comparison and actually the Home Care Association
do an annual report and they talk about the average pay that local authorities
pay to providers in that area and invariably Oxfordshire is, tends to
be on that, on the higher end of that.
Unless that changes across the country, we're going to have a problem with a lot
of those people because a lot of those people are not going to be people that
can pay to get care themselves and we'll make a huge dent in that market and really
try to focus on that but, I cannot tell branch owners and franchisees to take on
work when they cannot make profit out of that and I think people find profit a very
dirty word within the social care sector.
It isn't.
You can't retain staff or run a good quality care business
without profit and here, I'm not talking about the Ferrari fund.
I'm saying, can we take out care workers for a coffee if they're
going through a divorce, and take the time out for that, or whatever
it might be and it's really thinking about the human side of the thing.
Can we spend an extra hour with Mrs.
Jones because actually she's, going through something and actually it's
not something we're necessarily billing for, but we're able to do that because
that's just something that we want to do.
So you've got all of that part of it, but really I think a lot of this
needs to come from government funding.
So it's all, we have various issues within the sector and as with
many, but one of them is that great care workers are not paid to the
degree that they should be paid.
We're trying to change that within Walfinch, you know, we reward
franchisees that pay well, and we really talk about that and we try to
drive everyone to have a model that allows them to pay their care workers
well, but you can't get that unless the funds are coming in from somewhere.
Howard Bentham: Quite.
Kam, just as a franchisee then, finding people and paying them,
if you like a good wage, how does that work on the ground for you?
Kam Gil: So we get, our carers are quite happy with working with Warfinch
because we do minimum one hour calls generally and in that one hour call,
it's not all task orientated that, you know, sometimes we're the only
people that these people might see.
So it's important that we can give them that fifteen minute, have a coffee with
them, have a chat because they want to, you know, have a moan and groan about
something or they want some help calling the pharmacy because they're getting
frustrated because they can't get through.
So all these little jobs, people don't realise they all take time trying
to get through a doctor surgery.
So I might have four of my staff in the office chasing different, various
GPs because, although the carers has made the call, they're not going to
answer the question there and then, they've got to wait for a call back.
So, there's so many other things.
So, we say a minimum one hour.
That's attractive to the care staff that come on through our recruitment
process because, oh wow, one hour and try and keep them working in areas.
So, not having somebody drive 50 miles between clients.
So, you've got to look at things from the carer's point of view.
Howard Bentham: People are paid by the hour are they?
Kam Gil: By the hour, their mileage, they paid double on bank holidays
and festive days and stuff like that.
Amrit Dhaliwal: Yeah, and actually more and more because of sponsorship
licenses and so on, you end up paying salaries and so on as well.
I think just sort of answering the principal question, you've got pay is
actually, yes, it's one of the problems and if you can find solutions around that,
you'll absolutely attract more people.
That won't help you keep the people.
I think most people that have left a job recently in any industry will
say they probably left their boss as opposed to going, across the road to
do the same job for 10 percent more.
You know, Yes, the money helps at that point, but invariably you leave leaders.
We focus a lot on leadership and leadership training and that EQ part
of it, because I think more and more people are interested in building
relationships at work as opposed to just having it as a transactional thing.
We look at marketing for care workers all over, so it's not just
in one space, right, we're going to put a job ad out on Indeed, it's
really getting into the communities.
You know, Kam's got, I think, six classes, or she will have by the end
of next month, that are open to care workers if they want to come in,
but focused to elderly people within the area and they are, you know, art
classes and exercise classes and so on.
So they're really open, donation based, so basically free to come
into and it's really kind of getting into the community, then it's a
whole spectrum of other things.
How do you build your local profile?
And I think if you just want to put an advert out and hope for the best,
It doesn't really work anymore.
I think it's really difficult to operate businesses like that
and sorry, just one other thing.
This is actually for providers that might be listening.
It's a wonderful book by a gentleman called Neil Eastwood called Saving
Social Care and it's basically the blueprint of how to recruit
and how to retain care workers.
Howard Bentham: Finding the right kind of person, be that as a carer
or as a franchisee, that's crucial.
Kam, let's hear it from the ground up, what is it that
makes the right kind of person?
Kam Gil: So, when somebody comes in for an interview, I think you can really
tell whether that person's going to be the right person for the, the role.
If somebody comes in saying, how much you going to pay?
I'm not working this day and just really like, there's no like soft
skills there and whatever, you know, we sort of vet the personality
and all of those sorts of things.
It's not just about how qualified somebody might be.
It's looking at the whole big picture.
We make a big deal when somebody comes through those doors for an interview,
we want to be different to anybody else, we'll check in with them, send
a little voice recording and, really make it personalised and we want
people to know that we are different too, and we're very creative, I
think, in doing those sort of things.
and we tell them about all of the things that we do in the community,
which I think is nice and we have care staff that go out and assist and they
really enjoy that because, you know, the other companies that they work for
might not be doing those sort of things.
So, I think it's about telling them all the things that we're doing that are very
different to a normal standard care job.
You know, we want them to be able to make a difference.
So when we do an assessment, we're finding out a lot of information about a client.
So, for example, if somebody is interested in playing golf, that was something they
did, we want to continue that with them.
So, we have clients and we take them to the driving range.
It's fun for the carers, it's fun for the clients.
Somebody really cherishes a garden, we speak to the OTs, right, okay, we want the
bed facing the garden in the conservatory or where they can see the garden.
So, you know, we have this client and he was bossing his wife around, she goes,
he's doing my head in, I'm not doing this right, not doing that right, you
know, if the carers are coming out of a care call satisfied, they're going
to want to come back to work tomorrow.
If they're really like, oh, you've got 30 minutes to give medication, personal
care, do the meals and that day the client is not in great form, they're
depressed, not getting a bed, they're not going to be satisfied, they're not
going to want to come back to work.
So it's important that, when we are devising a care package, we're honest
about everything, because if the carers are happy, we've got happy clients.
Howard Bentham: And finding the franchisees, then Amrit, Obviously,
your sister was the first one.
Kam Gil: Guinea pig.
Howard Bentham: I wasn't going to say that, definitely your words!
words You can't go around finding 40 of your sisters, can you?
So...
Amrit Dhaliwal: Have you met many Indian families?
Howard Bentham: Again, those are your words!
Again, not everyone is going to be the right fit.
So what is it that you're looking for?
Amrit Dhaliwal: As I said earlier, we say no a lot, and I recently had a
very interesting but slightly awkward conversation with someone who went
through the whole vetting process.
We got together, the finance ready to go and all that as in they were able to and
I just it didn't feel right to me and I didn't feel like they were doing it for
the right reasons and yes, you know on one hand, it's phenomenal we're building
our business It's someone paying a license fee and so on but actually if they don't
have the right values and ethics it's I think that's not a long term relationship.
So I think identifying that is very important.
So I speak to everyone that a franchisee will speak to along their
journey before they meet me and get their thoughts and opinions on these
people and say, well, okay, do they show up on time to your Zoom call?
Were they, in bed when they were talking to you or whatever it is and
so really trying to understand that and how did you feel about them?
Now, they will be scored along that journey with us as well
on various different areas.
Same with the franchisee.
so I'm huge on a Prospective franchisee speaking to other current
franchisees, because they need to know outside of us, we're always a
wonderful shop front, but you need to know on the ground, what's it like?
What does it feel like?
What are the complexities?
Where's the hardship and so on and then do you still want to do it?
So my job, a lot of it is about putting people off, actually, once, once they
make an inquiry and the key thing for me is you've got the values and the
ethics piece of does that fit the bill?
Are they going to uphold the brand?
Because it's a different relationship, franchisee and franchise always a
slightly different relationship to just saying I'm starting a care business
on my own, it does need to then fit the mold, you know, you wouldn't go to
McDonald's and say actually I think the chips from down the road are better I'm
just gonna buy those frozen chips and fry them, they are McDonald's chips.
So it's really kind of saying, would this person follow a model?
Are they a team player and really contribute to the rest of the network?
Would I want them to provide care for my own family?
And do they have the grit and resilience?
that I think it takes.
It's really hard.
You know, I've had many sleepless nights running businesses over
the last, whatever, years.
and a lot of those in the early days were when you were starting off, you
just didn't have the capital, the cash flows running dry and whatever and every
business owner will have had this at some point or another and it is painful
and then at that point, a choice of, do I carry on, or do I just put a pin
in this right now and what we want are people that will get up, dust off,
go again and it's that resilience that is required to operate businesses.
We've got cross sector, I think most people would probably agree with that,
that if you don't have that fundamentally, everything else, it will lack.
I mean, so passion and resilience are super important to collide
in order to be successful in this sector and any, in my opinion.
Howard Bentham: And what about training, Kam?
When you get prospective employees coming to you, do they ask you
about, what's the training?
What will I learn in this job?
Especially, people right at the start of their work career.
Kam Gil: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So we've had a number of people that come that not from a care background, so
totally, you know, new, yeah, totally new to care and, it's important that you're
very open and honest about there's a lot of training involved, you know, I think
people have sort of stopped saying, oh, they're just a carer because there's so
much involved to become a care worker.
So there's, mandatory training that they do online.
There's, face to face training that they do.
They, you know, have competency checks.
They've got to go out in the field and shadow professional experienced
care workers and then they go out independently and then the first few
weeks they have competency checks, spot checks, all sorts of things.
so that we are happy, we get feedback from clients, how they're finding it, feedback
from the carers, how are they feeling?
So there's, a lot involved and a lot of them are getting enrolled on
qualifications as well as they go along.
cause that really helps.
and telling them about the career progression, you know,
they come in as a care worker, there's lots of different avenues.
Howard Bentham: Amrit, how important are organisations like OxLEP,
particularly offering help to SMEs in the health and social care
sector, because help is out there and sometimes you don't know where to turn.
Amrit Dhaliwal: No, it's, so true.
I think organisations like are super important for the sector
and for smaller businesses.
I think what could probably be better, and, and this is overall is, is really
better marketing of that and I wonder if there's some sort of way that accountants
could have some sort of place where they could say, Oh, here's all of the
local funding that's available and I think that's actually quite difficult
because what I tend to do throughout Walfich is navigate all these different
places around the country and everyone's got different organisations, the way
they operate is slightly different, the application forms might be slightly
different or, the amount of funding, what they'll fund for and so on.
So having that sort of almost centralised approach would be really
useful, but I think we need it.
small businesses cannot take, often cannot take, risk in testing new things.
They can't do the R& D, that research and development, they cannot do it because
they cannot afford for things not to work.
You quite literally cannot afford it and so when you've got people like OxLEP
around to say, well here's some capital for an apprenticeship and so on, or
this might work and that, you know, wow, yeah, that is game changing if we use
it properly, but actually, what we find is that you often don't even know it's
there, or you do know it's there and you kind of scratch the surface and you really
need to kind of get into these things.
I think that's, from my perspective, the answer there.
Howard Bentham: Let's bring in OxLEP's Oxfordshire Apprenticeship Advisor,
Leah Brian, into the conversation.
Leah, good to see you.
Just, do you want to just pick up on what Amrit's saying there, because
that is meat and drink for OxLEP.
Leah Brian: So, within OxLEP Skills, we are running a social contract project.
We received 1.
7 million worth of funding that has helped to support this.
So we're working with and identifying those large levy paying businesses within
Oxfordshire and opening up conversations with them about how they are using and
utilising that apprenticeship levy and particularly what you might know or
might not know or what other businesses might not know is that if they're not
utilising all of their apprenticeship levy, they can actually gift and pass
on up to 50 percent of that allowance.
Amrit Dhaliwal: Wow.
Leah Brian: So that really does support people like yourselves and the SMEs.
With that levy transfer system, that will support you in
covering the full apprenticeship training costs of an apprentice.
So if you recognise that conversation about covering the five percent
co investment fee that you would ordinarily receive from a training
provider, you would not need to pay that fee through being connected
to a levy paying organisation.
Kam Gil: Wow.
Howard Bentham: You sound like...
Kam Gil: That's really good.
Howard Bentham: Kam, that's like going to change your game!
Kam Gil: That is going to, we'll have a chat afterwards.
Leah Brian: Definitely, definitely.
Howard Bentham: How would it change things for you?
Kam Gil: Well, it just, makes you, obviously it's still 5%, still
quite a large sum as well, isn't it?
And then sometimes if care workers due to personal reason, whatever are not
then able to continue, we still have to pay majority of that fee, don't we?
So I think, that would be helpful and what happens with like sponsored, I
know sponsored carers, they have to be in the country for three years.
Is there anything that you can help with on that side of things?
Leah Brian: With the funding for apprenticeships, you're right
that a person that's taking it, the apprentice, does need to be
resident in the UK for three years.
At the moment, I'm not aware of any funding changes there.
But in terms of who can be kind of funded and what levels of apprenticeships,
it would cover all levels from Level 2 right up to Level 7, Master's Degree.
So it's a great way of taking your kind of employees through a journey, but
potentially, so they come in and start as a Level 2 Adult Care Worker, potentially
they could progress through to Level 3 and then to the Level 5 Lead Practitioner.
Howard Bentham: And the care sector is a real key sector for you, isn't
it really, as an apprenticeship advisor and big business really
supporting that as well with this levy.
Leah Brian: Yeah, I would say that, we have a lot of Oxfordshire levy payers
that are supporting the care sector.
We also have some national employers that are really happy to support
and pledge into Oxfordshire as well, so I'm really happy with that.
Howard Bentham: The care sector though, is a real focus.
Does that surprise you, that's the focus?
Leah Brian: I think it kind of echoes what you were saying that there really
is a great need to support this sector.
It's been amazing that we've been able to secure £3.
6 million of unused levy funding.
So far we have utilised and matched £2.
3 million.
That has been 245 apprenticeship starts across the Oxfordshire region
and about a third of those I would say are supporting the care sector.
So we have apprenticeship matches where they're supporting your adult care workers
in domiciliary care and care homes.
We're also supporting the NHS.
So we've supported nurse associate apprentices that are working in GP
surgeries and medical centres and our most recent match is with the
South Central Ambulance Service where we've been able to match and
support 12 paramedic apprenticeships.
So it's got a real kind of huge spectrum, but the healthcare sector has really
benefited greatly from these levy batches.
Howard Bentham: And just picking up on what you're saying there,
that there is over a million pounds of levy that isn't being spent.
Leah Brian: Yep, I still have.
I wish it was in my pocket, but there's about £1.
3 million there that is still yet to be used within Oxfordshire and
we've still got levy payers that want to continue supporting us.
So those funds can and will grow as well.
Kam Gil: there is a critical gap there, isn't it?
With like, obviously there's lots of people who do the Level 2, but
we're, you know, progressing and upskilling to the managerial side of
things, you know, there's a shortage of supervisory roles, there's not
enough people doing those roles.
So trying to upskill your current care staff to those roles, I
think, would be really beneficial.
Leah Brian: Absolutely and I think it's important to kind of also know
that the levy isn't just for bringing in new apprentices and young people.
It is about the upskilling journey.
Kam Gil: Because there's so many people and if you're really happy, like we
have a really good retention rate within Walfinch in general and upskilling your
staff it shows them that you appreciate them and you're happy with their work
and they're happy there with you.
You know, they know the clients, they know the background, they know the
team and they want to stay there.
So if we can, you know, career progression it's a really big deal for us.
You know, we've had people, my colleague, I'm sure she won't mind me mentioning,
Sarah, who started as an admin role and then she did recruitment, coordinating,
she did some care work, marketing, and then she's now gone off and set
up her own branch in Swindon Walfinch.
So, you know, we're neighbours, we still work together and refer clients
and stuff and then we've got a scheduler who started as a care worker,
now she's been doing coordinating and now working on her Level 5.
Another carer who came on as a care worker, not from a care background, from
hospitality, still uses his charming skills, which have helped, but he's also
came on as a care worker, did his Level 3 and now he's our deputy care manager.
So it's all about, career progression, upskilling and telling them their
worth, you know, because it's important.
Leah Brian: And recognising their skills as well, where they are going to...
Kam Gil: And there's so many gaps there to fill and, you know, like we
had, one of my care workers came on.
we supported her mother with End of Life Care, and she's a TA and she was
so happy with the short period of time that we supported her mum, that she
came on board as a care worker on a part time basis and then left her teaching
assistant job and came on as a carer, working 30 hours a week and then has
now become our events coordinator.
So, you know, it's great.
Howard Bentham: Kam, Amrit and Leah will chat about
apprenticeships in detail shortly.
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Howard Bentham: Let's pick up on the subject of training and development
as well as apprenticeships, of course.
Kam, tell us about the opportunities that you offer those entering the workforce.
Kam Gil: So, we, give them lots of options.
So obviously, you know, there's companionship visits that we might
do, end of life care, mental health.
So we're trying to find out when we recruit a person what they would be
comfortable going into because some people might come in and say, well,
I'm not going to do personal care.
You've got to respect that or there might be some people that come in
and say, well, I'm not going to support a male client or whatever.
So we've got to find out exactly what they want to do and then go down that
route and it's important that whoever you send out to a certain client,
you've got to make sure that they're going to be the right fit because
if they're not, they're not going to be happy, they're not going to stay.
So it's really important to figure out and understand what they want to do.
So I think it's looking at, really looking in detail and one thing
I've learned from Amrit is he always looks at the little details.
So, we have, Walfinch look at the small details about what the carer's
needs are, what the client's needs are.
It's not always just about the client's needs, it's about
the carer's needs as well.
Howard Bentham: That's interesting.
Do you hire apprentices and work experience students?
Do they get taken on?
Kam Gil: So we haven't really had work experience students,
but we have had apprentices.
We're in the process of actually, developing a job description for a couple
of roles and we're working with a college.
So yeah, we do take on apprentices
Amrit Dhaliwal: I think after this I might be taking on some apprentices for the
franchising piece which is also based in Oxfordshire and it's very interesting.
I've never really thought about it from the other side, from the non social care
bit, which is the franchising piece.
But actually some really interesting talent that you could probably
get and test people out and say, well, does this work, does it not?
we've actually just, launched an accounting business, which is also in
Oxfordshire and you think, well, that would be so wonderful for somebody
to do some work experience, do an apprenticeship, maybe we send them on
and say, look, okay, do you charter the, sort of exams and so on and really go on
a journey with someone and then you can really, in a very focused way, develop
the sort of person that you want, and sort of go on that long term thing with them.
So I think it's very interesting.
Kam Gil: To fit in with our values, right?
Yeah.
Cause it's really, you know, it's,
Amrit Dhaliwal: Gets you thinking!
Kam Gil: Think.
Yeah.
Leah Brian: If I could offer my support, so as part of my role as an
apprenticeship advisor, I work with small businesses to help them identify
what their skills needs are and then to signpost to training providers.
So if you're thinking of going down a slightly different avenue and
I can support there, that is all fully funded at no cost to yourself.
Amrit Dhaliwal: We'll take it!
Howard Bentham: In terms of job opportunities Amrit, are
they managed by a central team?
Is it very formalised or is this left to the franchisees to figure
stuff out in the various places they are around the country?
Amrit Dhaliwal: Yeah, so it's a great question so there's the paperwork side
of that, the policy and the how to is managed by the franchisor and we teach
that to Franchisees and we, that's a kind of lifelong journey that we
go on and then the doing it is left to the franchisees in the local area.
So they will do the interviews and drive the job ads and speak
to whoever the member of staff is and take them through the process.
We also connect franchisees up, we have a panel of HR teams and so we connect
our franchisees up there to make sure that there's safe practice happening
from an HR perspective, because that can be very tricky, to be polite.
So...
Howard Bentham: Just in terms of talk about training, Kam, what about
mentoring and how you mentor your staff?
Give us an indication of how that works because again, that's a real crucial
element in retaining people, listening to what the issues are of a day.
Kam Gil: So I've always been mentored by Amrit, so I sort of
take some of that away on how I...
Howard Bentham: And that's a
Kam Gil: thing?
It is a good thing.
Howard Bentham: Right.
Amrit Dhaliwal: It did start off as a good thing!
Kam Gil: It took some, yeah, you know, getting used to, but yeah, I think it's
first finding out how each person wants to be mentored and then working with that.
So, you know, like Amrit said, everybody has a different way of, learning and
stuff, somebody might not be very good at time management, so you've got to sort
of work with them in a different way.
So, right, okay, something that might work for me doesn't work for them.
So, it's trying to figure out, okay, how can I help this person, you know, do that?
Then monitor it, see right, in the next couple of weeks, did that work?
So I think it's just figuring out what's going to work for each individual,
because everyone's different, everyone has a different skill set that they bring
And teamwork.
So sometimes, you know, things might not work, sometimes people
don't want me to mentor them.
So they might want somebody else because they click with them better
or think, you know, sometimes I feel a bit frightened, you know, like I'm
a very easygoing person, but you know, somebody who's come new onto the team,
where like my, my sort of, I'm a bit more distanced to the care staff now,
because I've got people in place that will support them on a one to one basis.
But I'm, I still want to be involved in that, but you know,
somebody might feel more comfortable working with somebody else.
So I think it's seeing what works and how we can change.
Amrit Dhaliwal: An intuitive leader, I think is important and sort of
understanding actually, I'm not the right person to speak to X person.
Kam Gil: And sometimes it might be with other branches.
You know, we work, you know, we tag team with other branches.
Somebody might be new, that's come on from another branch, might come
in and do something with us and we might think, oh, they're doing
something a different way, we go in and tag team and see what works and...
Howard Bentham: How is the care sector going to cope with the demand
now, which is pretty huge and in the future where the forecast is massive?
Amrit Dhaliwal: I think that the care sector is extremely robust.
We are surrounded by really phenomenal entrepreneurs and actually the sector
is really led by entrepreneurs and really phenomenal entrepreneurs
that want to make a difference.
These are people that want to make social impact and so on and these are,
Entrepreneurs that will make it happen and it's unfortunate that I feel often
they are running that journey on their own and I think that's the kind of general
sentiment often certainly in my opinion.
So, how will it sort of resolve itself right now?
It will resolve itself right now because people just work
damn hard to do what they can.
I don't think that in our sector, you would necessarily have providers and
care workers that would go on strike and say, actually, we need to be paid better.
Probably ought to, quite frankly, but they probably won't do that and so
we'll just keep running and keep going.
But the problem with that is the long term issue and the long term issue then becomes
well, you know, you're just running this car out and it's gassed out and the
wheel will fall off at some point and so really what it needs is a total shake up.
It needs a shake up on how we provide funding, and the amount of funding and
level of funding, you know, it's all good and well that we're talking about
the government sort of making sure that care workers are paid better, but
that needs to come from somewhere and right now, as far as I can see, we're
asking providers to foot the bill and that can work with a certain type of
provider that is focused on private work.
I mean we can stomach that and actually we already are probably outside of that
because we pay care workers really well.
But then there's other providers and colleagues of ours that run wonderful
businesses but run them on local authority and government contracts and
there just isn't the margin to do that.
so that whole funding aspect needs changing and the career pathways,
we need to create more clear career pathways and I think that's a really
important thing that we're not just saying you're just a care worker.
Howard Bentham: Kam, I mean, on that point, staff
retention needs to be improved.
I mean, in 2022/23 130,000 people left the care profession.
That's a phenomenal number.
Obviously there'll be a number that joined, but that's an awful lot
of people that were for whatever reason not happy with their job.
Kam Gil: I think after COVID, a lot of people left the care industry and I
mean, there was a lot of burnout, you know, I felt a lot of people felt they
weren't supported in the right way.
But there are a lot of people coming in to the care industry as well.
because Everyone's needs are different.
Some carers come in saying, I'm only going to work between nine and three or nine
and two thirty because I've got to do the school pick up, we've got to respect that.
So I think it's ensuring the little details and making sure that we're
respecting them and doing all those things and also spending one to one time
with them, you know, I'd like to do it more often, but I don't always get the
time, but, having a one to one catch up when I'm told that, oh, so and so
is going through a bit of a difficult time or they're a bit short this month
with money, you know, we will support them and doing things, spending time
with carers, you know, arranging an event, going bowling and arranging,
a team building exercise or stuff.
So I think all of those things are really important and, we've got so many,
people from different cultures, it's a learning experience, you know, so
we've got so much there to offer now.
So I think having that diverse, care team has really helped as well.
Howard Bentham: Immigration's got a role to play here then.
I mean, one in four care workers were born outside the UK.
Kam Gil: Oh yeah.
Howard Bentham: what, is the solution there then?
What does the government need to do?
Kam Gil: I think more education.
So from my experience, you know, when I go, I spend a lot of time with my
kids in school and what subjects are going to pick and stuff and when you
go to these open evenings or after results day and they're picking their
subjects, you know, the number of people saying, Oh, well, you haven't got the
grades, just do health and social care.
They've just done it as a subject just in order to tick a box, so they've
got three subjects, but there's not enough education, Health and social
care, it's not just health and social care, there's so much to it.
You know, there's so many different areas that, people can progress in.
So, I think a lot more education needs to be done.
For example, I was at a roundtable meeting a little while ago and They
were saying the nursing staff are really great, you know, people going in and
becoming nurses, but they don't have any bedside skills, like bedside manner.
So you know, they want to have them out, come out in the community and, you know,
working as a carer for some, so they can learn those sort of skills as well.
So there's so many things that we could collaboratively work together and build
on and I think that's where the future is.
Howard Bentham: Do you want to to that?
Leah Brian: Yeah, I was just nodding my head because I think this is where
apprenticeships are great and the fact that you are learning on the job and
building up those skills and also the fact that care is really inclusive, isn't it?
There's so many different people that, that can work within the care area.
Kam Gil: Yeah, flexibility, you know, people, the mums, they can't work during
the day because their husband's at work and they've got young kids, but then they
can go out and work in the evening because it's important to be out there working,
you know, just for your own mental health.
I remember my sister after she had her second child, she goes,
I haven't worked for five years.
I'm going crazy, I need adult talk and, you know, being a carer, you know, I mean,
I've done care visits and I love going out seeing clients and whatever, you know,
it's so fulfilling, you know, there's bad days and sometimes you have a day where,
every client is, difficult on that day and it's just one of those things, but
you know, going out and putting a smile on a person's face, can change your day.
Howard Bentham: Let's get a final word from each of you and we'll go with
you first, Kam, if you could on that.
So your advice for someone considering a career that this is what I want to do.
They've either come in as an apprentice or they've just thought
this is what I need to do with the rest of my life, what's your advice?
Kam Gil: I think people need to come out and have a look and spend some time
with a care provider and a care worker before they make a drastic change,
because a lot of people who initially come in to care who are not from a care
background will just do some part time ad hoc work and they love it so much
that they'll come back right away or there might be someone that comes in and
actually tried it, I did the shadowing, did all the training, I thought I'd be
able to do it but I can't cope, it's too much, it's too stressful, or it
reminds me of when my mum passed away, it's too much, it's brought it all back.
So I think, people need to be able to come out and spend some time,
with people in the care sector to understand and learn, you know, there's
going to be good days and bad days, are they able to cope with that?
Come back and ask questions, what do you do if that happened?
What do you do?
You might get all the training in the world, but you turn up
at a client and they're on the floor and you're like panicked.
Oh my gosh, what was my training?
What was my training?
You know, you've got to be able to be calm, right?
Okay, they're on the floor, right?
I'm going to call 999 and then I'm going to call my manager
or the office or whatever.
So I think, we've got to understand.
each individual, what they're going to be good at.
But I think they need to come out and see, because especially the younger
generation, they don't know, if I told my kids to come in and come and be
a carer, they wouldn't have no idea.
But my kids have come in, and done a bit of recruitment, been in the
office environment, they've come to our events because I think it's
important to expose them to that.
You know, you never know when my son's doing, my youngest son's doing psychology,
and I'd love him to come in and be able to help us, we've got people, you know,
whether the care staff or clients, you know, the mental health side of things.
I think there's so much scope in health and social care, that has been missed.
Howard Bentham: And what's your advice Amrit for somebody wanting to start a
career or run a business in this sector?
Amrit Dhaliwal: Obviously just call Walfinch.
What else is there to do?
The end.
So I think just do it, go with the Nike attitude of it, you know, just get on
with it and shut out the white noise.
It is a thriving sector, let's forget about what we're reading in the papers
and the news and so on just for a second.
You've got a tremendously thriving sector when you flip what you're saying on
the other side is the demand will carry on increasing in this sector for the
next 20 years, we know that for a fact.
All we need to do is meet the supply and figure out how
do we slot into this sector?
There are tremendous opportunities from all different angles, whether that's
management, whether that's care work, whether that's recruitment, technology.
It's a whole space that hasn't even been scratched in the sector really yet.
There's so many different ways of contributing to the sector and I
think apprenticeships will absolutely help that and to providers and people
are looking at businesses, having an apprenticeship, for example, or having
a levy that will allow you to do that is just phenomenal because really for the
first time you're able to hire somebody, test something out and say, Oh, actually,
you know, I maybe don't need that hire.
I'm not going to do that.
Let's try this.
Oh, great, this has just changed my life.
Let's invest in this and see what the return on that is.
How great is that?
You know, this is a great time to be in the sector.
We've done it, we've hit rock bottom and the only way is up.
So, so, you know, let's get on with it, I think.
Howard Bentham: Positive thought.
Huge thanks to Amrit Dhaliwal, Chief.
Executive at Walfinch, and Kam Gill, Managing Director at Walfinch
Oxfordshire, and thank you also to OxLEPs Leah Brian too and thank
you for listening to OxTalks.
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