The Artist Interrogations Podcast. [heavy metal instrumental] [rock instrumental] Yo.
Hey, how's it going?
It's going, man. How are you?
[laughing] I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much for joining me while you're on tour with Great American Ghost.
Yeah, not a problem, man. Thanks for having me.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You guys are in Toronto right now, right?
Um, no, actually. The Toronto show got canceled.
Oh.
So we had it... We have an off day today in between, uh, what did we play last night? Detroit and Buffalo.
That'd be a weird life to not know where you've been or where you just were, type of thing. Like, just going all over the U.S., you know?
[laughs]
I always feel bad-
Oh, it's been a long tour. [laughs]
[laughs] I, I've talked about it with other artists before, about how, uh, you know, Corey Taylor messed up by saying, "What's up, Oregon?" to Pocatello, Idaho. And I talked with Caleb Shomo of Beartooth about that whole thing too, and, uh, sometimes he has to ask behind the scenes. And I, I would [laughs], I would also mess it up too.
Oh, yeah.
I would feel horrible.
Oh, yeah.
[laughs]
I'd be asking all the time, "Checking master tour? Just making sure."
[laughs]
[laughing]
And you guys are getting close to the end of the tour, which is, uh, almost, like-
Yeah
... perfect timing because, uh, winter i- is kind of here, but also not really here.
[laughs]
Like, everyone here in Idaho is like, "Where's the snow?" I mean, knocking on wood. I'm, I'm kinda glad that-
[laughs]
... we have nothing a- as of yet. But, uh, uh, has the snow been a bother for you guys on tour?
Um, thankfully, not yet. I mean, on... T- Like I said earlier today, we're on an off day. We're, I think, what, just outside of Cleveland and it is snowing. So [laughs], today's the first day we've really had to deal with it. Which, you know, now again, knock on wood, I'm thankful for it.
[laughs] Th- How's the, uh, uh, the, the driver? Who, who's driving the, uh, the vehicle for you guys? [laughs]
Oh, our drummer, Manny, has handled most of the driving shifts on this run.
Ah, man. That-
Yeah, he-
I'm hoping, is he the most skilled?
Uh, yes. He has a CDL. Class A, baby [laughs].
Oh, yeah. He got to 'cause I-
He should... H- He might join us here in a minute. I know he ran inside real quick. He might join us.
Oh, fantastic. That'd be awesome. Yeah, no, I was, uh-
Yeah
... I saw some posts from, uh, the band, Norma Jean. They were [laughing] going down I-80, and it looked like, uh, Hoth from Star Wars. It was just snow-
[laughs]
... it, it, it-
It was everywhere
... they couldn't make the Boise or Salt Lake City show, so I'm, I'm... Uh, you guys were just-
Oh, no.
You guys were just in Salt Lake City towards the end of November, like November 23rd. Yeah.
Yes, we were.
Yeah.
And, uh, like, the weather wasn't that bad. I'm really thankful we've gotten lucky on this run so far.
Y- Do you guys like... Uh, when it comes to touring in the winter-
Yeah, yeah, yeah
... is it somewhat of a gamble to do so? Like, just because you're like, "Well, we could make most of these dates, but also the snow could prevent us from performing and making money." [laughs]
Yeah, I guess, uh, it kind of is weather dependent. I mean, we'll take the tour in winter time. You know what I mean? We're not really gonna turn down a tour just 'cause it's in the winter. But, you know, it is weather dependent. If it starts getting real rough... Oh, here he is, the man.
Oh, perfect.
If it starts getting rough, you know what I mean?-
Yeah.
I feel like Manny can usually handle it.
[laughs]
Of course I can handle it [laughs].
Manny, when you were just bragging about your driving skills, about how you can drive in the snow and all of that, I've been petrified ever since I was in a, uh-
[laughs]
... car accident last winter. I was at a stop light, and you know when you ha- when you stop on snow and you start to slide, you have to pump the brakes?
Mm-hmm.
And that's the scariest-
Yep
... thing for me. So I pumped the brakes. Luckily, I stopped, but the 16-year-old behind me just rear-ended my car.
Ooh.
And ever since then, it, it's been kind of just like, "Okay, I'm not only worried about myself, but I'm also worried about other drivers now wrecking my vehicle again." You know? [laughs]
Yeah, once you get into one wreck, dude, it's like, it's just a mental thing after that. Like, you're just always cautious about every little thing at that point.
I- Is it selfish of me to want to be like, "You know what? I should just get Uber Eats and not go out myself"? Uh, you know? [laughs]
[laughs]
I should just get other people to drive for me [laughing]. That's, that's-
Yeah, I, I feel bad for them sometimes too.
Yeah.
I think I've had them deliver in a snowstorm before, and it's probably, it's probably not the nicest thing to do to somebody.
[laughs]
Hey, you gotta eat, man. You gotta eat.
Yeah, you have to. You have to. But, uh, l- l- l- I wanna talk about the album with you guys, obviously. I mean, uh, I heard, For What It's Worth, um, I forgot exactly when. I think when it first came out, and I just was immediately hooked. Um, and then, um, I played it for my, uh, my feature, Peaches Pick of the Day, I do at 2:00 PM to kickstart The Afternoon Show. I just had to start... 'Cause it's such a nice heavy track that you're like, "Okay, let's just start off The Afternoon Show with something that just gets people going." I don't know if they were on the afternoon commutes.
[laughs]
If people in the... If people driving around were just, you know [laughing], like, all of a sudden-
[laughs]
... flooring it out there. But yeah, uh, people seem to enjoy it, and the entire album and everything was dark. Uh, just how long did it take you guys to put this whole album together?
It was a while.
A long time. [laughs] A long time.
I, I, I think the writing process was... I mean, it was ongoing, but I would say it was probably around like three years from like start to finish. Some of these songs were written a long time ago and they were just reworked several times until we really got to, uh, to the finishing product. Like, For What It's Worth was one of those songs that we wrote, like, the main riffs to that song probably two and a half, three years ago.
So long. So long.
And, uh, and not... It wasn't until we got to the studio that we really, like, finished the chorus part of it and, and things like that where, you know, it finally came together after all this time. But it was, it was a long process, for sure.
But when it comes to that process and rewriting the whole thing, who makes that like, uh... Well, I mean, like, when you have the original chorus and you go, "Okay, let's just chuck that out and, like, sort of put in this new one." Like, how, how... Is that like a, like a majority rules type of voting process? Or how... Like, how does that, like... How does the whole songwriting thing go?
I would say, i- if I'm being honest, a lot of it comes down to just, like, me and Manny will be bouncing ideas off of each other. We'll s- we... You know, we'll put down a chorus and we'll sit on it for a week or two. And, you know, at the time we record it, we might be like, "Oh, this is totally fucking sick. That's the one." But after we sit on it for a little bit, we'll come back and we're like, "Eh, you know what? We feel like we could do a little bit better."
[laughs]
And then just trying to up the bar a little bit. So it...... you know, it really comes down to just like sitting on it for a few minutes, and just like, you know, coming to terms with like, "Okay, what can we do better? Can it be better?" And you know, yeah, yeah-
I, I guess-
... it's just like a... Oh, sorry, go ahead.
No, no, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. I can only imagine you guys write a song, and then another band comes out with a song that sort of sounds similar, and they just get trashed by the, uh, by the, by the fan base. You're like, "Okay, you know what? Let's redo this entire track overall," type thing. [laughs] Oh, that'd be funny.
Honestly, I mean, ah, I want, I wanted to say like, ah, for this record specifically, we were not trying to appease anybody. This record was for ourselves. We wanted to like go back and just write whatever we felt like writing for this record is what it was. It wasn't like, "Oh, we need to be more of this, or we need to do this, and you know-
Mm-hmm
... we don't sound like this anymore." It was literally just like, "What are we like, and-
Let's write what we wanna write
... we're gonna, we're gonna record that."
Yeah.
That's what you have to do though, kind of. It's like you almost, I- it would be completely horrible just to be like that, uh, like radio rock band. I hate the, the whole term, but you know, it, it, I would hate to be that like-
[laughs]
... octane core type band, where like I'm being told what to write as an artist type of thing. So I'm glad you guys honestly just went with what you wanted to do because the whole album, I've been listening to it on repeat this entire time, and just-
Thank you. Thank you man
... uh, the, the, the whole, like, you literally start the album with No God to Me, it just goes from zero to 60 in like three seconds, and I hear that like-
[laughs]
Oh, I don't wanna say this as an insult, but it ha- it has like that Wage War sound to it. Like it's, uh, it's really, it's really, really good. Did you guys want as a whole, w- when you were talking about how you wanted to write what you wanted to write, did you want to make it as angry and aggressive as you could?
Yeah, I mean, I mean, a lot of Harrison's lyrics, and I don't wanna speak for him-
[laughs]
... but a lot of them are just like about being angry about the world right now and kinda the state that everything is in.
Yeah.
And it just kinda fit the instrumentals that I was writing, and they kinda just went together hand in hand. It was pretty, it was pretty like seamless the way that we linked together on it.
Yes, sir.
That's-
Yeah, most of the, most of the lyrical content is a lot of like venting, a lot of like personal head space type stuff. You know, I've been saying like, with the state of the world, you know, within the last five, six, seven years, you know what I mean? I've got a lot of pent up aggression about it. [laughs] So I just tried to put pen to paper, and, uh, yeah, and like he's, I don't take an insult to being compared to Wage War. I don't see what the problem is. I really liked the last Wage War record.
Yeah, I, we're all, like Wage War is like at the top of, uh, I would say all of our influences. They're up there for us. Like, we are big Wage War fan, Fit For A King fan, like we just love-
Yeah
... like metal core, uh, honestly at this point. Like, that is like our, that's our thing.
And yeah, the whole, the whole sound, like I mentioned, is just awesome, awesome. And I- I was gonna ask 'cause I believe one of you guys, I was, I think I was t-... Was it Manny that just bought... You, Manny, you just bought like your first home? Or was it somebody else in the band that just bought their first home?
Yeah.
It was you, right?
Yeah, I bought my, I bought my first home, uh, about three weeks before we left for tour, and I said, "Good luck, wife."
[laughs]
Hold it down.
I, I was just, I saw that, and I was like, is this, is that too stalker-ish to talk about on the interview? Because I don't want to have a Nardwaur moment where I'm just like, I know exactly these things or like asking personal details, you know? But, uh-
Yeah, no, dude, it's, it's, it's crazy to buy a house. I mean, uh, I mean, it's been years of saving up. It, it took a lot to buy a house, you know, in this economy and everything that's going on. So, uh, I, I got lucky, my mortgage is like barely more expensive than my rent was, so it just, I, it made sense, and it got, I got lucky.
And I-
With that-
I, I can't imagine as somebody who's making a living touring in an era of like merch cuts and low streaming payouts, and now also AI coming into play as well, I don't wanna be like "the future's doomed for you guys", but at the same time, like it, it's-
It's bleak, man, it's bleak, yeah
... it's like, it's, it's bleak with, with how AI is sort of making its way into the, into the music industry. And then you have people like Teddy Swims who are like, uh, "You know, it's a beautiful tool to use." Are you guys entirely against AI? How concerned are you about AI's impact on the industry?
I just think like, I think it's a little bit unfair to the artists that really put a lot of effort into their stuff. Like, we'll listen to it and we'll make jokes about it. Like, there's some funny stuff out there, there's some, like, serious stuff, but I feel like anybody could really go and, like, AI create an entire album, put it up on Spotify, and I mean, we've seen it firsthand. There's been, like, AI projects where, like, within a span of a month, they have, like, millions of monthly listeners, and whoever made that's getting paid from that, you know what I mean? So it's like, I, I just think it's a little bit unfair to the artists that are actually putting a lot of time and effort into their music. I don't know how it'll work out long term. I don't, I don't know, [laughs] you know, I don't think that far ahead, but...
I, I think AI, if you use it as a tool instead of like a crutch, it could be useful. You know, uh, if you use AI, say you're, you're coming up with melodies, and you're, and you know, you hear something, uh, you put it into AI, it ge- spits you out a melody, you shouldn't take that melody and just go, "All right, this is it, 100%" But if it gives you an idea to run with, I don't think that that's a problem. But I think when, when people use it as, "Yeah, let me start an entire AI band and upload this," then I think that's an issue.
Yeah.
For sure.
I can feel like with copying like the melody or do- or like working off that is like almost copying off the smartest kid in class type of thing, where you're like, "Okay, that's a good idea. Let me use that real quick and sort of work my way off of that." What I've been using the AI for is hilarious 'cause I, sometimes if I don't like somebody, I'll just like write a whole ChatGPT prompt, and I'll be like, "Give me a diss track based off of these details I just gave you," and then I just send that diss track to that person 'cause I can't rap for crap, you know? [laughs]
And then boom, it's done.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean like, we all take influence from bands. I mean, if you like, if, if, if something AI wrote gives you an idea to write something better, then that's cool, because we all listen to, to, you know, let's say we're listening to Wage War, they give us an idea for a song, that's kinda the same thing.... but when you take the whole thing and you copy it, yeah, then, then it's not really doing what it should be doing, used for.
Right, right. Well, yeah, I wanted to talk also about, um, I jumped in you guys' AMA on the Metalcore subreddit about a month ago, and someone was asked, "How were you able to get Chris from like, Moths to Flames on the record?" And you mentioned that you were selecting features as you went. How did you approach writing a song and deciding, "Yeah, you know what? We would love to have Chris on this specific track"?
I think it was more so we, we just had like, a list of people that we were like, "Okay, let's shoot for this person." You know what I mean? I don't think... I mean, I don't know. I don't think it was necessarily song specific. I mean, maybe, uh, Travis from Colorblind on For What It's Worth was kind of song specific, but
other than that, I, I really think it was just having a list of people that we've always wanted on one of our songs, and just trying to get them on there.
Yeah, we, uh, we played a couple shows with like, Moths to Flames, uh, five, six years ago now. Uh, and that was the first time we met Chris in person. He was a super nice dude. And I mean, we all grew up listening to like, Moth, so like, it was, it was just a cool kind of bucket list thing to have on our record. Uh, just somebody that we grew up to as an influence and looked up to him, so it was cool to have him on a song.
I can only imagine having that list, and you have that first person that you want, and then you have like, four other people behind that person.
[laughs]
And you're like, "Okay, the, the first four people said no, well, you, you are our plan E." Like, you know [laughs] like, it's just being like the last-
Yeah, when James Hetfield said no, then we kind of had to move on.
Yeah, you should definitely just like, send a letter to James Hetfield to be like, "Please, just, maybe if you could." I-
Please. [laughs]
[laughs] Just to see if like, somehow, some way, you just shoot your shot with like, every legend in the business, just to see if they would maybe team up with you.
[laughs] We might land one of them, maybe.
Yeah.
If we get lucky.
I would l- I would love to hear a Downswing song with Brian Johnson of AC/DC. Like, just please make that happen. [laughs]
[laughs] Yeah.
[laughs]
Just him out of nowhere.
That'd be interesting.
And y- you have to like, slow the song down to kind of, you know, just kind of make it easier for him.
[laughs] Get the drums to four on the floor.
Yeah. [laughs] Oh, that's, that's great. Um, I also wanted to talk about the, uh, production for the latest album. I don't wanna butcher this guy's name. I c- I see his last name. Is it DeLees? Is that how you say it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
Jonathon, Jonathon DeLees? 'Cause I, I know... I was looking him up, and I was like, "What oth- what other stuff has he worked on?" And I saw it was 156 SILENCE, People Watching, like, LEVELZ: Pulse and all that.
Yeah. [laughs]
And a whole bunch of crazy projects. I mean, wh- you, you guys have been working with Jonathon for how long? Like, for the, for this, um... You know, 'cause I th- I thought I saw something about like, you guys have been working with him for like, five years?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, it's been about that. Our last, I think, three releases have been through Jonathon, so it's been a while now.
Yeah.
That's, that's awesome. Because-
He's really helped us- Oh, he's really helped us kind of work out the kinks when it comes to the songs and stuff like that. He's kind of pushed us to find who we are and like, what we really want, and then like, accentuate the little details of our songs. Which, you know, I, we, I feel like five years ago when we were writing, we didn't really think about that in like, true depth. And with his help, I mean, it's, it's been incredible working with him. He absolutely kills it.
Yeah, he, he's a, he's a producer too that will really push you. I mean, if there's a part that he doesn't think is good, he's gonna tell you that it's not good, and we need to rewrite it.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, so having somebody like that in the studio is, uh, really helpful because I mean, every musician's gonna think their song is perfect until you show it to somebody else.
Yeah.
And then they're gonna be able to help you elevate it.
Yeah, and 156 SILENCE, when they, when they released People Watching, that, it received a lot of great feedback. And then also, your guys' album, And Everything Was Dark also received a lot of awesome feedback. And so, it's, it's awesome to see you guys also gaining that recognition for, you know, the hard work you've put in for the past couple of years for this album. And I'm just glad that also-
Thank you.
... I, I've been able to play a couple of the tracks. I'm playing the one... I'm now drawing a blank when it comes to the title. It's the w- it's the one with, uh, Cain Hill.
Oh, Letting Go.
Yes, I'm playing that one today for my pick of the day today, just 'cause it's like, I've-
Play Letting Go, man
... I was listening to the full album. Like, I wanna play something different 'cause I've already played For What It's Worth and, uh, I think a f- a few other tracks that... But this one, I, I really also en- enjoy Cain Hill, so I'm like, I had, I had to put this on the air too to really spread the word, so ...
Yeah, thank you for playing it, man.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, no, of course. Uh, I was kind of, uh... [laughs] I was gonna make a joke too, trying to do, uh, research for this interview. When you look up Downswing on Spotify or Google, you get a whole bunch of like, golf podcasts and tutorials.
[laughs] Yep.
And it sucks. [laughs]
Let's go through one of those first, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, [laughs] but well, thank you guys for joining me on the, on your off day. Um, uh, we can't wait to just, you know, like... I'm actually gonna try to buy the record on vinyl 'cause I really wanna play this on my, my record player at home, And Everything Was Dark. I'm hoping to spread the word also about that album to everybody in the K-Bear Rock army, so ...
Thank you.
Thank you so much, man.
Yeah,
Thanks for having us.
Yeah. [instrumental music] The Artist Interrogations Podcast is a production of Riverbend Media Group. For more information or to contact the show, visit riverbendmediagroup.com.