Charlie Loften: The questions we wrestle with as Christians about who God is, how do we live out our faith, what is the Bible, what is the truth of the Bible, what are we supposed to believe, how are we supposed to live, there are really big deep questions that we ask each other, that we ask God, that we wrestle with ourselves. And that's why the Cultivate podcast exists, to help us go deeper in our understanding of who God is, his word, and the way that he's called us to live. Everyone, welcome to the Cultivate Podcast with The Grove Church. I'm Charlie Lofton. I'm the lead pastor there and I'm here with
Abigail Boone: Bagel. Bagel Boom. We tried you saying so I went to the gymnastics meet for Arkansas Mhmm. Last week, and I was reminded of our experiment of you introducing our podcast, like, announcer voice. Mhmm.
And I would like you to do it as bagel. Okay. Not Abigail Boom.
Charlie Loften: Okay. Okay. Well, remind me of that.
Abigail Boone: Okay. And we'll and we'll decide it was too booming for this mic.
Charlie Loften: Oh, we did?
Abigail Boone: We did?
Charlie Loften: So. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know.
Don't know how to do announcer voice
Abigail Boone: without being super loud.
Charlie Loften: Yeah. Like, to me, it I'm I'm I'm imitating a voice. Yeah. The voice when I hear it is loud. Yeah.
I'm sure when he's doing it in the microphone, he is doing it in a softer way.
Abigail Boone: You should ask Jason Sewell.
Charlie Loften: I should. I can try. I'll try. I'll try it next time. I'll try next time.
Anyways, we are we're getting pretty far into the series on parables. There's quite a few. It'll it'll still last us a bit, but we are in the middle of parables. And I decided I was thinking like, was kind of how to phrase it. We're going to take a break, but we're not really taking a break.
We're still doing parables, but we're going to do two that are relatively straightforward.
Abigail Boone: Okay.
Charlie Loften: We'll see.
Abigail Boone: But they are parables.
Charlie Loften: Well, definitely parables, but they're relatively straight forward. They don't have that kind of, really more of that kind of, Oh, gotcha moment. I think you'll be like, Oh, That's what that is. I think that's what that means. And you're going to be waiting for some twists, and it's not a twist.
Abigail Boone: Ain't no twist.
Charlie Loften: But it's just a really good principle to learn. And so if we remember, think about all these parables, right? We need to we need, you know, we're not we don't wanna make them overly complicated, trying to make them say 15 different things when Jesus is really just trying to make a singular point. And really, what that singular point is, is depends on who he's talking to. What he who who's the audience here?
Who's who is listening? Because who is listening and helps us understand what Jesus is trying to communicate. And then, like, which who who's who in the parable? Who is the reader supposed to identify with? Yeah.
And so in this one, we have a perfect little beautiful setup here. We don't have to, I want I wonder who Jesus is talking to. I wonder I wonder what the point is he's trying
Abigail Boone: to make. We
Charlie Loften: have we have a very easy setup here. So we are
Abigail Boone: There's a trend on TikTok right now of rage baiting your mom or rage baiting your dad. Yeah. One's like, if you were athletic, what sport would have you paid played saying that to your dad?
Charlie Loften: I've seen that one.
Abigail Boone: And a few times when I've watched this, I'm like, I wonder if that's what the Pharisees felt like with Jesus. He's just rage baiting.
Charlie Loften: Every now and then, my one of my adult daughters will send me a text that is obviously from some
Abigail Boone: sort of
Charlie Loften: rage rage baiter thing. And I forget what it was. I mean, I think the most recent one was one of my adult daughters sent me. I was like, I I'm thinking about working on an offshore oil rig or something.
Abigail Boone: Yes. That one was awesome. Right. But surely you didn't believe it.
Charlie Loften: No. Mean, is it is possible. I'm not gonna say it is impossible. It would have to be Lauren. It is.
Yeah. It was. It was I'm not saying it's impossible to rage bait me or to trick me, but you're gonna have to work a little bit harder than some
Abigail Boone: It's gonna have to be super specific.
Charlie Loften: Dumb TikTok trend because I'm a I'm I'm not chronically online, but I'm online enough That
Abigail Boone: you see it.
Charlie Loften: That I that I see things like that. Right. Or at least can I I can sniff it out? Can
Abigail Boone: sniff really, really were concerned, though.
Charlie Loften: Right. One of my favorites, and now we are way off topic now, one of my favorites is kid, mom, and dad in the room, and mom says something, and the kid says back to the mom, shut up, mom.
Abigail Boone: Yes. Just to see how
Charlie Loften: the dad is gonna react. Yeah.
Abigail Boone: It's a joke. Joke. It's joke. It's a joke. But take it back and take it back.
Take it back. There's one right now going around of husband and wife being out to dinner and the wife's about to order and she looks at her husband is like, is it okay if I get French fries tonight instead of salad? And the husband is just like frozen and he's like, I I don't tell talking to the witch and I don't tell her what she see. I never yeah. You have whatever you want.
It's awesome. That's So Jesus rage baiting. Yeah. Well, that that sounds like,
Charlie Loften: where did we end up here? Okay. Okay. Luke chapter seven starting with verse 36. When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisees' house and reclined at the table.
A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisees' house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them, and poured perfume on them. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, if this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is, that she is a sinner. So obviously, there's not a parable there yet, but that's that's our setup.
I
Abigail Boone: wanna Quick question. Yep. So in the past parables, the Pharisees seem pretty riled up about Jesus sitting with sinners.
Charlie Loften: Mhmm.
Abigail Boone: Was it, like, controversial that he was sitting with them? That Jesus was sitting with Pharisees?
Charlie Loften: Was it who would it be controversial to?
Abigail Boone: Like, what have they considered him a sinner?
Charlie Loften: I think they were curious about him. I think that they knew they think deep down that they knew he wasn't like a sinner sinner, but there was definitely something off about him, but there was also something right about him. So it really does kind of beg the question a little bit, like, what is the nature of this invite? By point in the story, I mean, the Pharisees have definitely set themselves up as antagonists to Jesus.
Abigail Boone: Yes.
Charlie Loften: They're not bros like, dude, you like God. I like God. You teach the Bible. We teach the Bible. We should hang and dinner.
Right? They're not grooving. Right? So they're they're not they're not they're not bros. And so what is what is this?
What is the setup here? Right? Why is Jesus invited to dinner? And obviously, now the word has gotten out That He's there. In the neighborhood to where, you know, likely, like, you know, probably, you know, some sort of prostitute finds out about it.
And now comes into the house, which again, now there's just a handful of things that are just difficult to understand about the culture.
Abigail Boone: Like, how did she get in?
Charlie Loften: How'd she get in? Or why would she get in? Like, she probably knew whose house this was. Right? But, I mean, so
Abigail Boone: She must have been desperate.
Charlie Loften: Right. So there's a desperation there that is obviously demonstrated by having the jar and pouring it out and wiping with the hair and everything. You just imagine the setups of these houses are not like what you think of where it's like, you know, a locked door.
Abigail Boone: Right.
Charlie Loften: You know, you got a in lock to come in.
Abigail Boone: I've always imagined, like, entering a garden.
Charlie Loften: Well, I imagine, like, this is this is gonna sound more like a almost more like a barn where there's just kinda like the door is just kind of there's not really a there is a door, but mostly we're just kind of
Abigail Boone: An archway.
Charlie Loften: Yeah. And there's a door that could be closed if need be, but really, we're not really we're not talking about windows and doors being closed. We need a lot of air circulation in here. So we're not Yeah. You know
Abigail Boone: my concern about sanitation. Right.
Charlie Loften: And it could be the dinner was happening outside. Regardless, it was accessible enough For her to get in. And so knowing that the Pharisee is an antagonist, he probably had some sort of setup planned anyway.
Abigail Boone: Yeah.
Charlie Loften: Well, Jesus, while I've got you here, let me ask you a quick question.
Abigail Boone: And
Charlie Loften: now we're switching to the Pharisee trying to rage bait Jesus in some way. Right? Or just try to trap him in some way, but he doesn't have to. The the setup happens organically, at least from Jesus and the Pharisees' perspective, where the woman who has, quote, lived a sinful life, who comes in and does this, and now he looks at it and says, you know, if this guy were a prophet, if he really were close to God, He would know that she is a sinner, and therefore there's an implication there. I mean, maybe Jesus does know she's a sinner, but the way that He's behaving is showing He doesn't know.
Because if He were a prophet, He would know she was a sinner, and if He knew she were a sinner, then He wouldn't be letting her touch His feet. I mean, you can't, know, Ugh. No, you, no.
Abigail Boone: Really gross.
Charlie Loften: It's really gross for you because I will get your center cooties?
Abigail Boone: Mhmm. It's a cooties vibe for sure.
Charlie Loften: Allowing a a sinner to touch me in such an intimate way is condoning it, you know, know, again, just kind of getting you know, whatever it is you are is going to get on me. Right? Maybe crossed. You ever have that back in the day? Of course.
Behind
Abigail Boone: your back?
Charlie Loften: Yeah. I didn't I didn't know how that I didn't know if that's universal where it's like, well, I'll try to give
Abigail Boone: you the cooties, but I have fingers crossed.
Charlie Loften: Fingers crossed. Yeah. Actually, my toes are crossed in my shoe. Yeah. Okay.
Shut
Abigail Boone: up. Nanana boo boo.
Charlie Loften: Alright. So it ends with him saying, you know, and then we gotta make sure we get this part to you, make sure we understand it, where he says, the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself
Abigail Boone: Like thinking.
Charlie Loften: Right. So this is not something that has been said out loud. However, which and which isn't really interesting that Jesus is gonna respond to him because he's doubting that Jesus is a prophet in his own brain.
Abigail Boone: It's kinda like the mattress thing where his friends put him through the roof and he, like, knows that they're doubting or whatever.
Charlie Loften: Yeah. Yeah. And so I I this guy's I think I think to myself, this dude's not even a prophet. And Jesus goes, Interesting that you think that. Right.
He's both already showing that he is a prophet. And then it says this, Verse 40 now. Jesus answered him, Simon, I have something to tell you. Tell me, teacher, he said. Two people owed money to a certain money lender.
One owed him 500 denarii and the other 50. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more? Simon replied, I suppose, bro, I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven. You have judged correctly, Jesus said.
Then he turned towards the woman and said to Simon, do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman from the time I entered has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet.
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven as her great love has shown. Therefore I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little. Then Jesus said to her, your sins are forgiven. The other guests began to say among themselves, who is this who even forgives sins?
Jesus said to the woman, your faith has saved you. Go in peace.
Abigail Boone: Sometimes whenever I'm reading the Bible, I have a thought, and then that's what the thought is that the Pharisees have, and I'm like, oh.
Charlie Loften: So what what was that here?
Abigail Boone: Like, that's crazy that he said, I forgive your sins. It is. It is. It is. Not doubting that, but, like, that was a big statement.
Charlie Loften: Right. And so in the overarching narrative of the story, there is an absolute, there's just a lot going on
Abigail Boone: here. Mhmm.
Charlie Loften: But, again, by starting with the idea that Jesus is responding to the guy's inner thoughts. Right. So this Feels like a movie moment. This passage that includes the small parable, this passage really is a it's a Christology moment of we're learning a lot about Jesus. You can respond to thoughts in your head, who forgives sins, etcetera.
Right? And him just kind of and the foil, the contrast between Jesus and the Pharisees. So we can get to kind of some of those broader ideas, but let's just kind of focus in on the parable. Okay. Two people owe
Abigail Boone: A denarii.
Charlie Loften: What was it? 50 and 500? Is that what it is? Yeah. And one owes 500.
Essentially, that's, you know, when you hear denarii, just write this down in your brain. Just think of a day's wage. How much you would make in a day.
Abigail Boone: Okay.
Charlie Loften: So 50 is like, you know, almost two months' worth of work. Okay. And then 500 is a year and a half. Yeah. So one person owes a month and a half's worth of salary, two months worth of salary, and the other person owes a year and a half's worth of salary.
Abigail Boone: People in Parables are horrible with money management.
Charlie Loften: Well, Ten Thousand Talents guy, he's crazy. But if you imagine yourself where you're in an oppressed society, and maybe you have a large family or something like that, or you're having to take in a disabled uncle or aunt or you're having to take in your parents and really only one of you is able to work, then one day's wage is not gonna Get you by. Is not gonna get you by. Yeah. And so you're hoping things will turn around and maybe something will happen, but it costs more than a day's worth of wages to keep your family going.
Abigail Boone: Yeah.
Charlie Loften: And this is just kind of the way these systems work. I mean, this is going to sound more political than I mean for it to you, but it's like, we're only going to pay you this much, but we know that it costs you one and a half times that to be able to live, which now you'll come to me, the person who's paying you, because I've got money, you're going to come to me and have me Ask
Abigail Boone: for more.
Charlie Loften: Ask for more, which I will quote lend to you to the point to where at some point then I'll collect the debt, You can't pay me back, and now I own you. Mhmm. Now you can do the same amount of work for me, and I don't have to pay you at all. Yeah. Not a
Abigail Boone: Pretty sad.
Charlie Loften: It was not a good society. No. So, anyways, so we got two people, one who owes them a couple months' salary, one who owes them a year and a half's worth of salary, and they both they can't pay back, and the person that owns the debt just forgives
Abigail Boone: them. Mhmm.
Charlie Loften: And says, and then it's like, asked the Pharisee, well, who is going to be more grateful?
Abigail Boone: Yeah. No. It says who's gonna love him more? Okay. That is big.
Charlie Loften: That is big. That's big. And then and then his his his response is great. I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven. Yeah.
Abigail Boone: That's like your little kid that is learning a lesson, and they're like, I don't wanna say what dad I wanna say he's right.
Charlie Loften: I guess. Yeah. Yes. I guess I should forgive my sister. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so then then Jesus so Jesus, hey. You're actually correct.
And then he kind of explains the point, which I'm now gonna ask you to explain to me. So how does how does does he how does he then take that parable, and what does he teach the
Abigail Boone: Well, it's basically, like, the rituals of welcoming someone. Mhmm. And, like, he didn't do anything to host Right. Like, at all, seemingly, and kinda felt like a bait and switch invite. Right.
But then the other girl was just, like, couldn't get over, like, a insane amount of humility of being in his presence and going she didn't have anything to offer as a ritual to welcome him, but still did anyways.
Charlie Loften: Yeah. So she look at all of what she did, the way that she has shown this love towards me, and you haven't done any of that.
Abigail Boone: And she has nothing to give.
Charlie Loften: So maybe I lied. So this is where we kind of maybe get kind of a bit of an moment from. Because it's pretty straight it's pretty straightforward. If the idea was you got somebody who's sinned a little versus someone who sinned a lot, this person is gonna be more grateful, or again, as Jesus says, gonna love them more. The Pharisee, which one of those people does he identify with?
Abigail Boone: That one.
Charlie Loften: Either one. Oh. Certainly not with respect to his relationship with Jesus.
Abigail Boone: Yeah.
Charlie Loften: Jesus, even if I am one, I don't think of myself as a sinner. She's a sinner, I'm not a sinner. I don't think of myself that way. And second, even if I am a small amount of sinner, what does that have to do with what's happening here? You're just some dude.
You're just a dude, and she's wiping your feet, and that's kind of weird and overly intimate, especially from someone who is a sinner. And, like, what is like, even if I do need to be forgiven, it doesn't have anything to do with Jesus. Yeah. Like, I mean, yeah, okay, if we're talking about God, maybe, but we're not talking about God. What does that have to do with our relationship?
Which then Jesus immediately goes to her and says, I forgive your sins, and then He is establishing Himself with that Pharisee and everybody in the room. That's why that parable makes sense because she is showing her gratitude of the grace that me as the Son of God is extending. You have not shown any of that. It's not only just because he imagines himself as you know, maybe a smallest sinner at best, but probably not even thinking of himself as needing really any sort of level of forgiveness at all, but also does not recognize at all the person sitting next to him as the one who is the arbiter of whether or not
Abigail Boone: they're I'm forgiving assuming from their question of who is this guy to forgive sin. Like, they saw that as like a deity type statement?
Charlie Loften: Yeah. That there only God can forgive sins.
Abigail Boone: Okay.
Charlie Loften: This is not a they did not have mean, even though we use the same word, priests or whatever, this is not kind of a pre Catholic system where the priest can forgive sin in some way. You know, the priest might would be able to tell you, okay, you have committed these sins. If you want God to forgive you, you need to follow these steps, and they follow these steps and do the certain sacrifices, but then the priest doesn't then come in, okay, well, based on this now, your sins are forgiven. That was not for the priest to declare. Only God can forgive sins.
And so at a minimum, Jesus is claiming a unique relationship with God.
Abigail Boone: He's not even or He's not only considering them a sinner, but He's also like, but I'm also above you.
Charlie Loften: Yeah. And, yeah, so what He's doing here with this Pharisee, He's not just simply saying, okay, you guys both recognize me as having the power to forgive sin. You've only been forgiven a little bit, so you're only a little bit thankful to me. She's been forgiven a lot, so she's a lot thankful to me. So it's now his, I suppose, kind of makes a little more sense.
Yeah. Who's gonna be more grateful? I I suppose
Abigail Boone: But the he's not attributing that
Charlie Loften: to Jesus yet. Does this even have to do with you and her washing your feet? Mhmm. Okay. She's grateful that God has forgiven you.
Theoretically, someone like that, if they've been forgiven, would be very grateful, but one, has she been forgiven? And if so, still, what does that even have to do with you? And so, again, at its very surface level, parable is pretty straightforward. People who've been forgiven a lot will love more deeply. But really, the whole thing is just, again, in the context of the story and what happens in the aftermath, it is also tacked onto that, this huge setup of I am I am the forgiver of sins.
Your sins are forgiven.
Abigail Boone: And you are sinful.
Charlie Loften: Yeah, and so now then, he walks away then with the implication of, if he thinks he's the one that forgives sins, and her response is, wait, he is also implying that I'm a sinner.
Abigail Boone: Mhmm. I mean, it feels like it kinda would've broke his mold of the law to some extent.
Charlie Loften: It breaks his mold of the law, it most certainly breaks his idea of who Jesus is, or at least a minimum of who Jesus thinks that he is. And so then, now for us, two thousand years later, it's actually a little bit easier and a little more straightforward for us because we are in a position where we recognize Jesus as the one who forgives sin, and we get all judgy about, I can't believe they let that person come into this church. I can't believe they let them worship. Do they not know? Like, you know, and this has happened several times in the history of The Grove where someone with a known reputation comes in, or they come in in such a way where it is very obvious that they have or practice a certain type of sin, and it becomes, it can become, scandal's not the right word, but it becomes a thing where people come to me, you did you see that couple was there?
I'm like, yeah, I I I did. Or in the case of kind of some larger scale things, I'll get a call from somebody from another church. I hear so and so visited your church today. It's like, oh, yeah. Maybe I think I met them.
Well, do you know? Like, uh-oh. Okay. Right? And so we we can very easily place ourselves in the position of the Pharisee where it's like, there is a certain amount of sin where ostracization is appropriate.
Abigail Boone: Right. Which is interesting because whenever he finishes the parable and takes it back into how they're treating him, he's basically saying, like, which one would love me more? Obviously, perpetuate some type of different reaction, but you haven't been forgiven as much, but you should have still had the same reaction. Like, it doesn't matter what's great sin, you should be propelled to respond in the same way.
Charlie Loften: But again, the Pharisees' reaction to it would be Jesus is you're not involved in that transaction at all. But to us, we're like but I think I think then we need to take it, then we'll take it another level and be like, I don't know that there is a huge gap between my sinfulness and the sinfulness of the person that right now I'm currently judging. I mean, just take all the anger that exists out there in the world between one group and another, and we're better and you're better. Why? Well, look at what they're doing.
Look at what they believe. Look at what they're saying. But I but you but you what? But me what? I mean, it's just some people wear their sin in a more obvious way, and some people may be sinning in a way that is also, in Christian society, viewed as worse.
Abigail Boone: Right. You know? Which is just such a focus on the sin though, and not a focus on the person who's holy and set like like, you could compare all day long, but it's kinda a big mystery of how God sees it all the same, You know? Because there are some that's like, well, surely that is worse. But it's like, he seems sees pride and anger as the same thing, but it's like you're focusing on the sinner, not the person who has forgiven much.
Charlie Loften: I think poison is a really good metaphor. Mhmm. How much poison needs to be in your drink before it's bad? Yeah. I mean, if if if three drops will kill you, what's the difference between three drops and ten drops?
You've got three times more poison in you than I did. Well, it's killing you either way.
Abigail Boone: And
Charlie Loften: again, I think the reality of it is, it's the gap between you and a holy God, and that gap is insurmountable. And so we should not be comparing on relative scales anyway, but even if we did I was like, I should always be the grateful one because it begs the question, and again, this is not necessarily something the Pharisee's gonna take away more of a Christology. But our takeaway is like, I'm a sinner. I'm a sinner, and I should be acting as someone who is incredibly grateful. And when I meet another sinner, no matter how my relative perspective on them, when I meet another sinner who seems to be at least taking a step towards repentance, I should be like, on them.
Hope they make it all the way. I hope they do. And I remember when I was lost in my sins. This Pharisee has no sense of having been lost in his sins, but we do. Well, mean, as well as I think sometimes, and we need to wrap this up because I could rant about this all day, but there's other parables too that this is going to transition us very well into the next one actually, but we kind of, you know, you start to think of yourselves, and this, again, this will bridge us to the next parable, which is the Pharisee and the tax collector, Pharisee and the sinner praying, of just like, I begin to think of myself more in terms of who I am after I've been forgiven, and I'm like, God should be really fired up that I'm on his team.
And I lose sight of the fact that I am a sinner forgiven. And I think this Pharisee has no sense of it at all.
Abigail Boone: Yeah. Well, you know, AA is like the best people at creating little sayings and stuff, it feels like. And one of their sayings is I'm a thousand miles away from my last drink, but right around the corner from my next, which not the exact same sentiment, but I feel like it's just keeping in right check of, like, yes, I'm great, and I've done all these movements, but I need to remember the humility that comes with what I come from. And it's just like, it feels like a right sizing of both that, like, be excited the progress that you've made and the life that you've lived since then, but don't forget that you are human.
Charlie Loften: I love that. Yeah. We're gonna let that really insightful thing. We're gonna let
Abigail Boone: that be what closes it out.
Charlie Loften: Alright. Thank you so much for sharing that. That was really good. Thanks as always for for being a part. You're great.
Love it. As always.
Abigail Boone: Love it.
Charlie Loften: And thank you guys for joining us, and encourage you to come back as we will continue working our way through the parables. And as always, if you are not connected with us as a church, you can find us at thegrovechurch.org. You go to our connect page and there's a little form you can fill out where you can ask us questions or you can learn, ask us, you know, ask about the podcast or about our church, our services. There's information on that page about when we meet, where we meet. You can join us in person online.
Anyway, we would love to help you connect you. Again, thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to the Cultivate Podcast. Our hope is that you are taking steps to go deeper in your faith, that you are asking big questions and you're looking for answers. We hope that we can be a resource for you through our podcast and any other way that we can help you.
You can find all our episodes anywhere that you can find podcasts, including YouTube. And, thank you so much for joining us.