Career Conversations | S2 EP6: Managing your Work/Life Environment (part 2)

Show Notes

Managing Your Work/Life Environment
with Rosemary Simmons

Feeling overwhelmed and dissatisfied with your work may be a symptom of an imbalance between your work and your self. Psychologist Rosemary E. Simmons shares helpful tips of taking care of your priorities, being true to your values, and juggling competing demands.

Rosemary E. Simmons, Ph.D. (she/her) is a first-generation, Pell recipient college student who had the privilege of being employed as a licensed psychologist in higher education for over 30 years. She specializes in providing mentoring, training and psychotherapy for young adults and early career professionals. She is honored that she was hired as the inaugural counseling center director for UW Bothell. During her tenure at UW Bothell, she worked closely with the students to assist in the development and opening of the Student Diversity Center, Violence Prevention & Advocacy Program, Health and Wellness Resource Center, and United Way Benefits Hub focused on one-stop services for low-income college students. She worked at UW Bothell for more than seven years before transitioning to semi-retirement at the end of 2021. Rosemary is currently a resident of Kitsap County and provides psychotherapy at Front Street Clinic in Silverdale and consultation and training to university staff, faculty and administrators across the country. She spends her time hiking Kitsap and Olympic Peninsulas, kayaking, reading, cooking, baking and laughing with friends and family, a laugh that startles babies. After all, toddlers should not be the only ones who have belly laughs!

Music by Lesfm from Pixabay

Creators and Guests

Host

Michaela Gormley

Michaela Gormley (she/her) is a proud alum of the University of Washington, graduating in 2009 from the Foster School of Business with a degree in Business Administration – Marketing and a minor in Spanish. She recently started a new role in tech sales after 10+ years in marketing. She served as a member of the UWAA GOLD (Graduates of the Last Decade) Council for two years, including one year leading the diversity, equity and inclusion subcommittee. As a proud member of the UW Alumni community and as a first-generation college student herself, Michaela is passionate about increasing the inclusivity and accessibility of higher education. She is excited to be back for the second round of UWAA Career Conversations and is grateful to be part of a resource that helps others achieve their personal and professional goals. In her free time, Michaela is an avid fan of Husky Athletics and has been a football season ticket holder since graduation. She loves spending time in the sunshine of Eastern Washington with her family and friends and prides herself on being a cool aunt to all of her nieces and nephews.

Guest

Rosemary Simmons

Rosemary E. Simmons, Ph.D. (she/her) is a first-generation, Pell recipient college student who had the privilege of being employed as a licensed psychologist in higher education for over 30 years. She specializes in providing mentoring, training and psychotherapy for young adults and early career professionals. She is honored that she was hired as the inaugural counseling center director for UW Bothell. During her tenure at UW Bothell, she worked closely with the students to assist in the development and opening of the Student Diversity Center, Violence Prevention & Advocacy Program, Health and Wellness Resource Center, and United Way Benefits Hub focused on one-stop services for low-income college students. She worked at UW Bothell for more than seven years before transitioning to semi-retirement at the end of 2021. Rosemary is currently a resident of Kitsap County and provides psychotherapy at Front Street Clinic in Silverdale and consultation and training to university staff, faculty and administrators across the country. She spends her time hiking Kitsap and Olympic Peninsulas, kayaking, reading, cooking, baking and laughing with friends and family, a laugh that startles babies. After all, toddlers should not be the only ones who have belly laughs!

What is Career Conversations ?

Frank conversations to help you take control of your career.

Going beyond resumes, interviews, and cover letters, each conversation brings a unique perspective on relevant topics for you and your professional development.

Presented by Pepsi, Career Conversations is produced by the University of Washington Alumni Association.

Learn more: https://www.washington.edu/alumni/career-conversations/

This is part two of career conversations, a discussion about work life balance. If you haven't listened to part one yet, please start there and then come back here for part two.

Once we've done that and we made sure that our priorities are sort of aligned with values, how do you.

Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is really communicating that plan with our supervisors where it can start as early as the job interview in the end. And also really looking at our job description, too, to make sure that there's oftentimes like that job creep where all of a sudden you're doing a beyond what your job description is. And so our job description can help redefine what we're supposed to be doing. And so those are things to also look at and then come up with that plan of action. So, for example, another person I worked with, she was, you know, and again, early career had been working for about three years and had her first child. And so her priorities changed at that point. All of a sudden, she needed more time at home, wanted more time at home, wanted more time with her family. And so she went in and really started like figuring out, again what her priorities and values were and then made sure that she had a meeting with her supervisor and communicated that before she gave birth about like, this is a big change in my life. I've been here for three years. I absolutely love this job. You know, you know how important this is for me to be a team member. And I realize that I'm going to have to do some shifting around. And I really want to have a discussion and be proactive with you to make sure that we can create that win-win situation where I'm able to continue to contribute just as much as I've always had with the team and at the same time be able to have that balance I need and taking care of a newborn. So let's talk about that. And so for her being that proactive, you know, was also a relief to the supervisor. It ended up because they became yeah, I'm sure. And it really allowed that open dialogue and really negotiation about how, you know, yeah, they could change your job so she could do a little bit more tele work at home, which now, of course this is pre-pandemic, so.

Yeah, sure.

Why wouldn't you be working from home? You know, there's just I mean, that's kind of the Golden lining that came out of the pandemic is that there is a lot more work flexibility where you work, you know, what percentage is at home versus in the office. And so take advantage of those changes that have been created and look at how that can help enhance that work life balance, because there's a lot of ways that can help from little things like, you know, I found like I can throw a load of laundry in between meetings where you can't when you're 20 miles away. And those things seem simple and maybe not very important, but the stress it can relieve in your life really can be important. And so really be creative. And looking at those and having that clear conversation with your employer and knowing kind of what I can negotiate on and what I can't negotiate on.

Right? right. Yeah I can only imagine having a child obviously would affect your priorities. Right um, so being proactive about that. But even if it's smaller changes or just your role has changed or life has changed and being in communication to set up an action plan is. Is huge. I think it is to be able to do that. So how would you kind of have that action plan? How can we put that into play. And maybe. Some roadblocks that you've seen people when they are trying to implement this type of change, obviously it's not always smooth sailing to do that. Can you tell me more about that?

Yeah, I think as when we're in a work setting and if demands increase for everyone on your team, you feel that you need to be a team player and take on more or take on something that normally wasn't part of your job description potentially. But now they want it to be. And so that can be a real push pull for all professionals, but especially young professionals, because it may be the first time you've had to deal with that. And so that can be a real roadblock because this is my first job, or it's like the job that I see myself being able to climb in. And so I really want to be an asset to the organization. And so that can then start helping people kind of feel stuck between two goals of really wanting the company, the organization to think like, yes, we are so happy you're here and we can see your potential growth and we want to promote you to be able to do that. But then here the experiences you need and then at the same time, but I still want my personal life. And so that's a common push pull that I see with professionals. The other one can be kind of economic insecurity or instability or, you know, and that could be because I have no safety net for my family. So like, I either make it or I don't make it. Other things is like, you know, you get employed during a time of recession or when there's high, you know, unemployment or any of those kind of economic factors can really make us feel kind of, again, kind of pinned in like, I just have to keep this job because there are no other jobs for me.

Right? Yeah, that can be definitely challenging someone who as someone who graduated in 2009 in the economic downturn of that time, it was definitely a challenge to say, how can I set some healthy boundaries? But I really need this job and there are not a lot of other options for me. And finding that balance, I think I'm sure lots of other people have had this struggle as well. But one thing for me that I saw, especially early on in my career was having a hard time setting those healthy boundaries when I was also trying to advance. And I think, yes, you touched on that a little bit, but do you have any suggestions for how people can set boundaries but still try to? Advance in their career, whether that's getting promoted internally, finding a new career or a new job. What that looks like and how you kind of balance those two things.

Yeah, I think, you know, because I mean, whenever your supervisor comes and gives you that opportunities, there's that excitement because that this is going to help you move to the next level, which is exactly what you want. And so, I mean, you have several options. Sometimes what we do is, especially if we know the project is time limited, we might say, and kind of negotiate like with our family or whatever else. Our priorities are like, this is a two month project. And so I'm going to need to spend and I would like to spend a little bit more time at work to do this project because it's really going to help advance my career. So how can I negotiate with other areas of my life to make the time for that? So that's doable. If it's not time limited and like this is a whole new responsibility that's going to keep going, then I think it's looking at you again. Your original job description is showing that, yes, this is additional add on, which means there needs to be something that gives and that could be like, what else am I currently doing that someone else in the team and the organization could take on for me, like, you know, I've gotten what I need out of that. I've learned what it is and it's in a stable place where someone else could pick it up and who could we delegate that to so that didn't freeze up time so that I'm still working the same amount of hours, but now I'm doing different tasks that will help me climb that career ladder, that career trajectory. That's really important to me.

Yeah yeah, that's so helpful as opposed to just piling on more and more and more responsibilities.

And I think not wanting to say no. And I think we do that all the time, not wanting to say no and also not wanting to turn down possibilities that will get us where we want to go. So I think one thing that we do a lot is we kind of tell ourselves early in our career, well, it's OK, I'll work extra now and then once I kind of arrive, then I'm going to slow down and back off.

Right.

I think more times than not, what it does is it just creates a pattern of us overworking and we then really have a hard time figuring out how to regain that balance. And then the organization can also have more difficulty with it because they're expecting you to put in all this extra. Right.

And then after two years or five years, you want to back off. They're like way where is this coming from?

Right they've grown accustomed to it. Your team, your manager, whoever is accustomed to, well, you do all of this and then to try to back off from it is definitely challenging. I'm thinking through. So if we're wanting to not get into that habit from the beginning or. Or wanting to even change it now, as maybe we're realizing, oh, that's something that I've been doing. I know we talked right at the beginning about being conflict avoidant. Some of us are. How do we communicate that to our supervisors or whoever needs to sort of know about that? Because that's a big challenge for a lot of people. That can be a sticky situation.

That's a great question. And I think we struggle with that so much. And this is another thing that I think, again, that mind shift can really help a little bit, because I think initially when we're conflict avoidant, don't want to say no to people because we're a people pleaser. We want to continue to progress our professional career trajectory. That feels like a roadblock and it feels like a win-lose situation. And so one of the things that I have found that's really helpful is always going like there is always a win-win. Sure and that is just like a phrase and a belief system. I have embraced. Like if we are creative enough, if we're collaborative and laugh, if we can negotiate, we can come up with win-win situations. And so how do I communicate that with my employer, my supervisor? So I'm not going in because that's what I thought initially I had to do. Like I had to go in and take a firm stance, I can't help doing this. I cannot not do this. And this is why I have very valid reasons for it, which you probably which of course. Yeah, but that was scary for me and I didn't want to do that. And so I realized that I could actually still say, I don't want to do this or I don't have time for this, but I could phrase it in a way that has a softer approach, that conveys a win win, conveys that I'm still committed to my work and this organization. And so again, meant taking some downtime to reflect on how do I communicate that effectively so that I can say, you know, I took on this project and I was really excited and it's going really well. But I also realized I had these other three or four projects and I'm drowning now. And in this is like I'm, you know, the only way I can do this is basically make this my life and this is all I'm doing during the week. It's my job or my break there is I'm going to start dropping balls and hurt the organization. And I don't want to do that.

Right right.

So how can we start looking at everything on my plate and figure out, can something be put on hold, can something be delegated, can something be job shared? I really want to continue to do an excellent job for you and I really want that organization to continue to thrive. So how can we work together to make that happen?

Yeah.

And what I found is that when managers, supervisors are approached with that perspective, then they don't get freaked out or worried or defensive. And so it just takes that kind of antagonism, like because if it's a winner or loser, no one wants to be a loser. Right?

But if it's a win win, then we can both benefit from this.

Right. Yeah the idea of. Sometimes I think swallowing a little bit of pride to say, hey, I can't do all of this. So I really I want to do a good job on this new project or this new responsibility, but that means that something's going to give. And like you said, it's either going to be my - life, health, whatever that is or I'm I just don't have the capacity to do everything and going and saying, hey, I want to make sure that I'm doing a good job for our team, for our company, whatever that is. But I can't do all of this. How how can we reprioritize? I think I like that idea of a win-win of saying I really want the team to succeed, but I need help or creative ideas to figure out how to do that.

And and, you know, we're talking about work life balance. And yet, in some ways, there's no right or wrong answer as long as it's consistent with really what's your priority. So I've also worked with people who joined very high powerful law firms or tech industry jobs where they actually can work x many years and make enough money to live the rest of their life. Yeah and so I have also known people who say, you know what, this is going to be my life for the next 15 years, but then I'm going to retire at 48 and be done with it. And so again, if that's really but it's again, you want it to be a mindful choice. You want to know, what am I giving up by doing that? And is that worth the gain of whatever you're seeking? And if your answer is yes, then that's a good plan.

Right. And so I just want to acknowledge that there's more ways to create that work life balance. I had someone who was a film maker, and so that person was like when they were like 100%, 1,000% all. And that's kind of what it needed to be. During the shooting of the film and on location and everything. And so it was just like, you know, everything else in my life is on hold. Everything's about this film. And so they really created what I was thinking like because I was at first thinking like, oh, we need to have these sustainable action shows that can be ongoing. And what she really made me realize is that she created this really beautiful kind of sporadic work schedule, work life balance, where there'd be so many months or a year here or there, where she was just all in on that project. But then she actually built in downtime in between projects so that she really could have that. So that's how she created that balance. So I just wanted to give those examples. So people could realize there's lots of different journeys to get there. The key thing is, is this the journey for me?

Yeah, that's. These people are so smart. Like, what? What what creative ways to think of finding that balance for. However, it works for them. I love that there are so many different, different ways to get there.

It is. And that's what I've always loved about my job, because I learned so much from all the clients I work with. It's like, Oh my gosh, that's brilliant. I never would have thought of that.

Isn't that funny. You're like, I know I'm you're coming to me, but then you're learning to let them do. That is a very cool concept. And it really goes back to what you mentioned at the very beginning about figuring out what your priorities are and then setting a plan accordingly. Right? Means everyone's plans are going to look different. But as long as they're in line with that person's priorities for what's important to them, then it works or it can work.

Right? Yeah. Sometimes, though, as we say, the best laid plans. Right things you can set a great plan and it doesn't go the way that you intend or. Life happens. Change happens. What do we do and what do we do then? Do we scrap it all and just start over? How can we try to be flexible with our plans that we've set up for ourselves?

Yeah, I think one of the things that I've learned is to just assume that at some point it's not going to go to those plans.

(laughter), a safe plan.

And so, again, kind of building in and being proactive, as we talked about before. And so one of the things I always encourage people to do is set up a time to check in with themselves. And sometimes the organizations have that like they have an, you know, semi-annual check in or review or performance evaluation or an annual one. So those are like natural ways that you and your supervisor manager can relook at that schedule, look at that work life balance. Is it still working for the organization and for you as the employee. The other time is really listening to yourself. You know how we all have that inner voice in our head, like that conversation we have with ourselves throughout the day and look at when that starts to change.

Yeah.

Like the excitement's not there anymore. I wake up in like, oh, I've got to go to work. Um, you know, I just feel like I'm kind of there doing the work, but kind of robotically. I mean, just look for those Warning signs, that thing. You're not where you used to be that things have changed. And again, get curious about that, because I think sometimes what we do is we just beat ourselves up for it, like, you know, just work harder or have a better attitude. Just do it. Yeah and so I always encourage people to just be curious about that because that's information, that's data for us. And if we can get curious about it versus judgmental, it will actually inform us and give us really good information that we can then act on.

Yeah oh, my gosh. I just I love all of this conversation. I wish I could have talked to you 10 years ago, Rosemary. It would have been so helpful for me when I was first starting in my career. But I know it's going to be so helpful for people who are listening, and I definitely am going to probably listen back to our conversation and just remind myself of a lot of these things that we've talked about as we're wrapping up. What's something maybe one thing, or an idea that you really want people to take away from our conversation today?

I think the two things that I really want to emphasize is there is never one plan that fits all. So be creative and original and give yourself permission to do that. And then the other thing is really embrace the win-win philosophy. It's just it just opens up so many roads for you in your future and both your personal and professional life. And it just makes you more content with life and people in your life, more content if we really take that win-win philosophy.

Oh I love that. I love that so much.

Rosemary, Thank you so much for chatting with me today. It has been wonderful talking to you and learning from you. And if people want to continue learning from you, supporting your work or working with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Sure and they can contact me through my professional email. I'm happy to respond to any questions they have or any clarifications, they want. And my email is Rosemary at Front Street clinic dot com ([e-mail]). Or you can reach out to me in my LinkedIn account and I'm happy to have received your message and have a dialogue with you that way as well.

Awesome Thank you so much. Well, I. I will personally be connecting with you on LinkedIn. I'm excited to keep chatting with you more and I'm really, really grateful for the time today. So thank you so much.

Well, Michaela, it's been a joy to talk to you. And Thanks for, I really appreciate that. I wasn't the only one who really stumbled with this in my early career. And continue to have that people pleaser conflict of late. And it's nice to know that, yeah, there's others of us out there.

We're all just working on it all the time, I think.

Thanks for having me.

I'll talk to you soon.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to career conversations, an audio series created for the University of Washington alumni community that focuses on deeper topics to help you create and sustain a fulfilling career. This series is one of many programs and events created and supported by the UW Alumni Association to keep alumni, students and friends connected to the University and to each other. To explore more ways the Alumni Association can support you in your career, or for you to mentor and support other UW alumni and students. Visit UW alum dot com (uwalumn.com) to learn more about programs like UW Husky Landing and Huskies at work. You are a Husky for life and there are so many ways to stay connected and be more involved in your Husky community. Join us at UW I'm your host, Mikaela Gormley. Thanks so much for listening and Go Dawgs!