WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.049 --> 00:00:02.120 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.150 --> 00:00:03.830 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson. 00:00:03.943 --> 00:00:07.033 New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy. 00:00:07.038 --> 00:00:11.027 Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com. 00:00:11.027 --> 00:00:16.644 You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com. 00:00:16.694 --> 00:00:18.614 Here on Equine Assisted World. 00:00:18.614 --> 00:00:23.744 We look at the cutting edge and the best practices currently being developed and, 00:00:23.794 --> 00:00:27.604 established in the equine assisted field. 00:00:27.634 --> 00:00:32.884 This can be psychological, this can be neuropsych, this can be 00:00:33.034 --> 00:00:38.284 physical, this can be all of the conditions that human beings have. 00:00:38.794 --> 00:00:43.204 These lovely equines, these beautiful horses that we work with, help us with. 00:00:43.301 --> 00:00:47.201 Thank you for being part of the adventure and we hope you enjoy today's show 00:00:47.341 --> 00:00:49.351 Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:49.561 --> 00:00:51.631 This is your host, Rupert Isaacson. 00:00:52.134 --> 00:00:56.194 Some of you may already know me from my book and film The Horse Boy, , which 00:00:56.194 --> 00:01:02.584 told the story of how I and my autistic then very severely autistic son Rowan, 00:01:02.764 --> 00:01:07.634 traveled across Mongolia, , in search of healing on horseback because he had 00:01:07.904 --> 00:01:11.024 become, In the saddle in front of me. 00:01:11.504 --> 00:01:16.304 and then a subsequent book called The Long Ride Home, which talked 00:01:16.304 --> 00:01:21.674 about, , three further journeys that we made in Africa and in the Australian 00:01:21.674 --> 00:01:24.554 rainforest and in the Navajo Reservation. 00:01:24.864 --> 00:01:28.264 , again, looking for healing and , finding it, that's the 00:01:28.264 --> 00:01:30.424 irrational side of what we do. 00:01:31.174 --> 00:01:33.154 What happened was there was a rational side as. 00:01:34.249 --> 00:01:39.709 When it became very clear to me that it was certain rhythms on the horse that was 00:01:39.709 --> 00:01:43.959 getting first Rowan, and then more and more and more other kids, communicating. 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.634 And , the brain just seemed to come on. 00:01:47.024 --> 00:01:50.924 , I went to neuroscientists in some different countries and said, please, 00:01:50.924 --> 00:01:52.754 can you explain why this is working? 00:01:53.324 --> 00:01:53.864 The. 00:01:55.229 --> 00:02:00.989 Explanations that they gave me, which were to do with the activation of oxytocin, 00:02:01.019 --> 00:02:08.379 the feel good, and, neuro, neuro calming and communication hormone in the body. 00:02:08.859 --> 00:02:14.169 And that followed by the triggering of a protein in the brain called 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:17.449 B D N F, brain derived neurot. 00:02:17.859 --> 00:02:20.829 Factor, which is the Lego piece, if you like, the building 00:02:20.829 --> 00:02:23.179 blocks of neuroplasticity. 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:27.249 Well, we then realized we could replicate what we were doing and now. 00:02:27.834 --> 00:02:31.924 Many of you may know that we have, a practice called Horse Boy Method, which 00:02:31.924 --> 00:02:36.724 is an equine assisted practice, a practice called Movement Method, which is done 00:02:36.844 --> 00:02:38.314 giving the same results without horses. 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.674 And something called Athena, which delivers it in a similar 00:02:41.674 --> 00:02:43.354 way, but for adults with trauma. 00:02:43.734 --> 00:02:48.864 so that's really how I fell into this world and , what I notice is 00:02:48.864 --> 00:02:53.094 in the 15 years or so that we've been doing it, the whole world of 00:02:53.094 --> 00:02:57.414 equine assisted interventions, If you like, equine assisted human 00:02:57.414 --> 00:03:00.324 development has grown exponentially. 00:03:00.624 --> 00:03:04.534 When I first got into this, , there was really just therapeutic riding and 00:03:04.534 --> 00:03:11.164 hippotherapy, and the therapeutic riding was largely and still is largely aimed 00:03:11.164 --> 00:03:12.844 at people with physical disabilities. 00:03:13.034 --> 00:03:13.354 , because. 00:03:13.714 --> 00:03:17.774 The history of it was that after World War ii, there were many people who came 00:03:17.774 --> 00:03:22.724 back from the war to family run riding schools because they tended to be run by 00:03:22.724 --> 00:03:26.864 ex calvary officers who'd come out of the military and did that in their retirement. 00:03:27.284 --> 00:03:30.434 And these guys were coming back with missing limbs and that sort 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.264 of thing, and they wanted to ride. 00:03:32.714 --> 00:03:36.194 And they found that with adapted riding techniques, they could indeed do that. 00:03:36.554 --> 00:03:39.614 And this, of course, became therapeutic riding for the disabled. 00:03:41.129 --> 00:03:45.089 This has been very, very successful and sort of dominated the scene for some 00:03:45.089 --> 00:03:47.319 decades, and then Hippotherapy came. 00:03:48.179 --> 00:03:51.029 Another very good approach, which is looking at it from a slightly 00:03:51.029 --> 00:03:52.499 more neurological point of view. 00:03:53.079 --> 00:03:54.664 and that has been very successful. 00:03:54.874 --> 00:04:00.794 However, the massive upsurge in the last 20 years or so of people 00:04:00.794 --> 00:04:05.964 with autism and people with other neuropsychiatric, conditions, I don't 00:04:05.964 --> 00:04:10.014 want to say disabilities and disorders because what we've found is that 00:04:10.414 --> 00:04:13.014 actually these are perfectly viable ways of going through life and one 00:04:13.014 --> 00:04:16.259 can even be actually very successful, with many of these conditions. 00:04:16.409 --> 00:04:19.109 But there are skillsets that need to be learned as well. 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:23.999 But the message, massive upsurge in these conditions has created a whole 00:04:23.999 --> 00:04:26.579 bunch of new approaches, and it can be. 00:04:27.544 --> 00:04:30.184 Confusing when you're looking at it from the outside. 00:04:30.424 --> 00:04:34.754 Well, now, gosh, it's, it's this whole mosaics, it's like a universe. 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:38.164 It's like there's therapeutic riding over here with Path International and there's 00:04:38.164 --> 00:04:42.064 the Hippotherapy people and there's the Horse boy people, and there's the Igar 00:04:42.064 --> 00:04:46.094 people and there's the Okay corral people and there's these other, , approaches 00:04:46.094 --> 00:04:48.764 and these other approaches and these other approaches of equine interventions. 00:04:49.354 --> 00:04:52.144 And how do I choose, how do I know which is right for me? 00:04:52.149 --> 00:04:53.704 How do I know which is right for my child? 00:04:53.884 --> 00:04:57.874 If I'm a professional, where might I decide to get involved? 00:04:58.154 --> 00:05:00.314 Maybe I want to do a range of different approaches. 00:05:00.854 --> 00:05:05.064 Then of course, I noticed very quickly, and this was made me rather sad. 00:05:05.189 --> 00:05:09.869 as a parent of an autistic child, was that these worlds were very, very factional. 00:05:10.209 --> 00:05:13.149 often the different groups were somewhat at odds with each other 00:05:13.509 --> 00:05:16.869 and often quite viciously at odds with each other, really bad mouthing 00:05:16.869 --> 00:05:18.039 each other and that sort of thing. 00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:21.479 And, even factions within, some of the interventions. 00:05:21.539 --> 00:05:24.809 And this made me sad because I thought, well, gosh, you know, surely 00:05:24.809 --> 00:05:26.069 we're all here for the same reason. 00:05:26.249 --> 00:05:31.009 Surely we're all here to, you know, try to, make better a challenging situation. 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:31.619 nobody. 00:05:31.814 --> 00:05:34.604 Get into equine assisted work to get rich. 00:05:34.604 --> 00:05:36.974 I mean, that's, you know, if you're gonna do that, just go to law school. 00:05:37.304 --> 00:05:39.254 so everyone is in here for the right reasons. 00:05:39.354 --> 00:05:44.574 so with this podcast, Equine assisted world. 00:05:45.114 --> 00:05:50.184 What we are doing is we are looking at all of the interventions and we're 00:05:50.454 --> 00:05:55.404 looking to find the best practices, the stuff that's really on the cutting edge. 00:05:55.524 --> 00:05:58.614 We're looking at the science, we're looking at the studies, but we're 00:05:58.619 --> 00:06:02.034 also looking at what just seems to work for people on the ground and 00:06:02.034 --> 00:06:05.544 where people's passions lie and how the whole world is developing in. 00:06:06.604 --> 00:06:08.254 Interesting and dispassionate sort of a way. 00:06:08.434 --> 00:06:10.834 We're not on one side and we're not on the other side. 00:06:11.074 --> 00:06:15.704 We are as interested in the, physical, interventions as we are in the 00:06:15.914 --> 00:06:18.224 emotional and psychiatric interventions. 00:06:18.434 --> 00:06:22.094 We are as interested in the ones that are unmounted as we are interested 00:06:22.099 --> 00:06:23.804 in the ones that are done unmounted. 00:06:24.014 --> 00:06:26.924 We are interested in the ones that are done with TAC and the 00:06:26.924 --> 00:06:28.784 ones that are done without tac. 00:06:28.844 --> 00:06:31.304 There is no faction to which we belong. 00:06:32.869 --> 00:06:38.269 Equine assisted world is here to look at this entire world and help those of 00:06:38.269 --> 00:06:44.149 us who are interested and fascinated by this amazing work to discern where 00:06:44.149 --> 00:06:46.699 the really interesting stuff lies. 00:06:47.449 --> 00:06:49.579 So, what's our approach here? 00:06:50.179 --> 00:06:54.079 , Equine assisted world more and more is no longer looking at, if 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.769 you like the client base as saying you are a problem to be fixed. 00:06:58.069 --> 00:07:00.679 That is something that really belongs to the past. 00:07:00.859 --> 00:07:07.129 I think what we are looking for here is how do we enhance someone's 00:07:07.129 --> 00:07:12.589 existing awesomeness and at the same time give them new skills. 00:07:12.949 --> 00:07:16.049 So let's take me for example, you know, Rupert, okay, well I now live in. 00:07:17.234 --> 00:07:18.914 So I have to learn some German. 00:07:19.274 --> 00:07:23.774 This doesn't mean that I have to give up being born an England Englishman. 00:07:24.014 --> 00:07:26.444 And this doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to be an Englishman. 00:07:26.814 --> 00:07:30.594 it just simply means that I can be an Englishman who also learns to speak 00:07:30.599 --> 00:07:35.004 German, or I can be a neurotypical person who also has a driving license. 00:07:35.334 --> 00:07:39.184 Or I can be somebody that learns how to scuba dive, you 00:07:39.184 --> 00:07:40.084 know, something like this. 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:44.479 If we take this sort of approach and more and more people in the equine 00:07:44.479 --> 00:07:49.129 assisted world are doing this, then instead of going at conditions as 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:53.839 if they are some sort of enemy, some sort of dragon to slay, what 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:55.069 we are doing is we actually honor. 00:07:55.819 --> 00:07:59.859 The, often the superpowers that come along with many of these 00:07:59.859 --> 00:08:01.959 conditions take autism, for example. 00:08:02.019 --> 00:08:05.179 There are many gifts of autism, but you have to be a little bit on the inside 00:08:05.179 --> 00:08:06.559 of it to really know what they are. 00:08:06.739 --> 00:08:09.499 There's this incredible ability to focus. 00:08:09.559 --> 00:08:15.289 There's this wonderful, , ability to not judge yourself next to other people, which 00:08:15.289 --> 00:08:18.409 creates a very quiet ego, which means. 00:08:18.979 --> 00:08:19.459 One. 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:23.179 People with autism, particularly classic autism, really turn their attention 00:08:23.179 --> 00:08:27.229 to something they're often extremely effective at it because they're not 00:08:27.529 --> 00:08:30.649 having to listen to a silly little voice in their head telling them they're not 00:08:30.649 --> 00:08:32.449 as good as the person at the next desk. 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:35.399 being neurotypical isn't a holy grail at all. 00:08:35.589 --> 00:08:38.229 there are plenty of neurotypical people disappearing down bottles 00:08:38.229 --> 00:08:39.639 and jumping off bridges and. 00:08:40.164 --> 00:08:42.624 Beating up their wives and kids and that sort of thing because 00:08:42.624 --> 00:08:45.144 of this horrible little voice in their head, constantly telling us 00:08:45.144 --> 00:08:46.944 that then they're not good enough. 00:08:46.974 --> 00:08:52.134 So we want to honor the advantages of each condition. 00:08:52.479 --> 00:08:54.609 As well as look squarely at. 00:08:54.609 --> 00:08:59.179 Okay, well, perhaps, it is necessary to learn how to interact with the world. 00:08:59.179 --> 00:09:02.839 It is necessary to learn how to get control of your emotions. 00:09:02.989 --> 00:09:07.009 It is necessary to, if you are physically compromised, to get as 00:09:07.009 --> 00:09:10.729 much range of movement as you possibly can for your health and wellbeing. 00:09:11.179 --> 00:09:13.429 but we're not telling you to be any different to who you. 00:09:14.534 --> 00:09:18.734 so we're gonna be interviewing people who are really at the leading edge of this. 00:09:19.334 --> 00:09:20.654 who have we got coming up for you? 00:09:21.524 --> 00:09:23.864 , we've got the amazing Joel Dunlap. 00:09:24.044 --> 00:09:27.974 If you don't know who she is in the, equine assisted world, you should, 00:09:28.154 --> 00:09:32.744 her square peg foundation in Northern California started with autism. 00:09:33.334 --> 00:09:40.324 and then, Branching out into just about every area of neuropsychiatric work and 00:09:40.324 --> 00:09:45.024 is now, , a certified health provider of San Mateo County, which is Silicon Valley, 00:09:45.394 --> 00:09:48.634 , for those of you know, the area with, and she's creating multiple campuses. 00:09:48.724 --> 00:09:52.484 And she bootstrapped this, , from standing in a field with some quirky 00:09:52.484 --> 00:09:55.604 clients while she was just trying to run a writing school and has brought 00:09:55.609 --> 00:10:01.084 this to, , an international community, , and is now working with, , scientists 00:10:01.089 --> 00:10:06.584 and, , doctors and, , all sorts of interesting people to create better. 00:10:07.389 --> 00:10:08.919 , for people all over the usa. 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:14.109 , she also interestingly does this largely with off the track thoroughbreds and 00:10:14.109 --> 00:10:18.189 rehabs these guys into the therapeutic work in ways that you would think 00:10:18.189 --> 00:10:20.649 would not be possible given that a lot of the work is done mounted. 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:21.909 How's she doing this? 00:10:22.119 --> 00:10:26.749 Well, she's gonna tell us, we're also gonna talk, , to the amazing joy o'. 00:10:27.964 --> 00:10:31.969 Of, , red Barn in Alabama, , who deals a lot with trauma 00:10:31.969 --> 00:10:34.029 work, , works very closely with. 00:10:34.749 --> 00:10:39.399 The Polyvagal Institute, equine Polyvagal Institute, and, , JC Dugard. 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.079 Some of you may know JC Dugard. 00:10:41.289 --> 00:10:47.469 She was abducted, , as a teenager and kept as a sex slave, , for a couple 00:10:47.469 --> 00:10:51.799 of decades and then escaped, , and now has an amazing foundation, dealing 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:55.879 with trauma and forgiveness and recovery and resilience and this work. 00:10:56.564 --> 00:11:01.524 At Red Barn goes very, very closely with this, in an equine assisted manner. 00:11:01.614 --> 00:11:03.564 Absolutely fascinating work. 00:11:03.998 --> 00:11:05.548 We're gonna be talking with, dr. 00:11:05.548 --> 00:11:08.258 Megan McGavin of Virginia, , is a 00:11:08.262 --> 00:11:11.932 very successful doctor on the East coast in Virginia, , who happens to 00:11:11.932 --> 00:11:14.012 also have a very severely autistic. 00:11:15.097 --> 00:11:18.697 Who, it wasn't just autism, it was, it was physical failure to thrive. 00:11:18.997 --> 00:11:22.967 And she has started, , a really extraordinary, , program there. 00:11:23.117 --> 00:11:25.817 not just dealing with autism now, but dealing with all sorts 00:11:25.817 --> 00:11:27.477 of other, , related issues. 00:11:27.482 --> 00:11:29.727 And she brings the medical perspective to it. 00:11:30.117 --> 00:11:33.567 And she's also very active in the medical conference world, bringing the work 00:11:33.567 --> 00:11:37.737 that we do in equine intervention out to the medical mainstream and getting 00:11:37.742 --> 00:11:43.407 more and more doctors, , referring clients to, , equine assisted centers. 00:11:43.407 --> 00:11:44.487 Absolutely amazing work. 00:11:44.767 --> 00:11:49.807 , we're gonna be heading over to Ireland, , to talk to Terry Brosnan of Child 00:11:49.807 --> 00:11:51.747 Vision in Dublin, , where they work. 00:11:52.077 --> 00:11:54.147 It started with just visually impaired kids. 00:11:54.337 --> 00:11:55.117 , then it moved. 00:11:55.662 --> 00:11:59.112 Kids who were visually impaired with autism, and then it moved to 00:11:59.112 --> 00:12:02.782 kids who were visually impaired with autism and other , physic. 00:12:03.432 --> 00:12:06.042 , challenges and now it's absolutely everybody. 00:12:06.322 --> 00:12:09.862 , and she's right there in the middle of the inner city, , in a place called 00:12:09.862 --> 00:12:14.632 Drum condre serving the kids who are coming out of apartments in the, , less 00:12:14.632 --> 00:12:18.442 moneyed end of Dublin, who would never normally get access to this stuff. 00:12:18.722 --> 00:12:19.742 , with an incredible team. 00:12:19.862 --> 00:12:20.792 How's she doing it? 00:12:20.792 --> 00:12:21.242 What's she. 00:12:22.142 --> 00:12:24.722 We're gonna be talking with Alex Vaughn, Dr. 00:12:24.722 --> 00:12:27.212 Alex Vaughn, who's fascinating man. 00:12:27.212 --> 00:12:33.372 He's, he is a half German, half American ardian, in fact, soldier. 00:12:33.747 --> 00:12:39.397 Well, psychologist, for the German army, the Bundes Fair, but he also works very 00:12:39.397 --> 00:12:44.717 closely with the US Air Force, with their veterans coming back from, hot zones and 00:12:44.717 --> 00:12:46.127 working with them and their families. 00:12:46.127 --> 00:12:49.757 And we are gonna be talking about the, the healing and resilience and trauma work 00:12:49.907 --> 00:12:55.827 that they do, with these personnel, both in Germany and in, the USA and many more. 00:12:56.477 --> 00:12:56.927 what's the. 00:12:58.172 --> 00:13:00.872 Okay, we're gonna do this as a double whammy. 00:13:01.242 --> 00:13:04.812 First we're just gonna interview these people and find out who they are, what 00:13:04.812 --> 00:13:08.712 they do, how they evolved, what they do, and where they want to take it from here. 00:13:09.192 --> 00:13:11.802 But then we're gonna do a follow up interview with each person in 00:13:11.802 --> 00:13:13.542 which you can ask them questions. 00:13:13.547 --> 00:13:16.692 And a certain number of you we're gonna c invite to come on live. 00:13:16.992 --> 00:13:21.272 You can ask your questions live and everyone else, you can, email 00:13:21.272 --> 00:13:25.182 your questions in and, we are gonna have them answer your questions. 00:13:25.562 --> 00:13:26.222 Direct. 00:13:26.372 --> 00:13:28.922 So this is gonna be absolutely fascinating. 00:13:29.042 --> 00:13:30.602 So there's a follow up for each interview. 00:13:30.701 --> 00:13:33.041 so why listen to Equine Assisted World? 00:13:33.161 --> 00:13:37.211 Well, are you already an equine professional looking to get 00:13:37.211 --> 00:13:38.531 into the equine assisted world? 00:13:38.966 --> 00:13:41.876 And you're just confused by the array of choice out there. 00:13:42.446 --> 00:13:46.346 , are you already an equine assisted professional looking for just more 00:13:46.346 --> 00:13:47.696 development in your profession? 00:13:47.701 --> 00:13:51.336 And again, just looking for what's, what's out there on the leading edge, so that 00:13:51.336 --> 00:13:53.076 you can develop your practice even better. 00:13:53.496 --> 00:13:54.576 Are you a parent? 00:13:54.966 --> 00:13:55.986 Are you a carer? 00:13:56.256 --> 00:13:57.546 Are you a therapist? 00:13:59.466 --> 00:14:02.316 No matter who you are in this rather like me, and you're just 00:14:02.316 --> 00:14:06.906 interested, you're going to learn from these people, what's out there. 00:14:07.086 --> 00:14:11.796 And crucially how we can take some of this work and apply it not just 00:14:11.796 --> 00:14:15.576 with the horses, but give it to people to take home into their daily 00:14:15.576 --> 00:14:21.516 lives, to apply even without the horse and how that crosses over. 00:14:21.586 --> 00:14:23.956 Okay, so that's equine assisted world. 00:14:24.226 --> 00:14:26.746 We hope you're gonna join us on this journey into this 00:14:26.746 --> 00:14:28.846 fascinating, fascinating universe. 00:14:28.896 --> 00:14:33.696 Don't forget to look us up on ntls.co. 00:14:33.966 --> 00:14:37.686 That's where you'll find Horse Boy Method Movement Method Athena. 00:14:38.046 --> 00:14:39.216 And we're gonna be feature. 00:14:39.906 --> 00:14:42.066 All of the people that we're talking to as well on there. 00:14:42.216 --> 00:14:48.216 And also long ride home.com, which is our Shamanism Personal Development 00:14:48.216 --> 00:14:49.626 and horse training website. 00:14:50.046 --> 00:14:53.346 And of course we are gonna be giving you the links to everybody that we're 00:14:53.406 --> 00:14:56.856 interviewing so that you can follow up with them directly yourself. 00:14:57.160 --> 00:15:01.060 Also, check out our other podcast, live Free, ride Free, in which we 00:15:01.060 --> 00:15:05.230 talk to people who are managing to lead self-actualized lives, 00:15:05.510 --> 00:15:07.850 doing things that everyone said you couldn't do for a living. 00:15:07.850 --> 00:15:09.590 Fascinating people over on that one. 00:15:09.650 --> 00:15:10.820 come with us on the adventure. 00:15:10.965 --> 00:15:12.075 thank you for joining us. 00:15:12.105 --> 00:15:13.935 We hope you enjoyed today's podcast. 00:15:14.174 --> 00:15:19.214 Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online 00:15:19.214 --> 00:15:24.404 courses and live workshops in Horse Boy Method, movement Method, and Athena. 00:15:25.111 --> 00:15:29.759 These evidence-based programs have helped children, veterans, and people 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.769 dealing with trauma around the world. 00:15:32.097 --> 00:15:35.847 We also offer a horse training program and self-care program 00:15:35.847 --> 00:15:39.087 for riders on long ride home.com. 00:15:39.385 --> 00:15:43.435 These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that 00:15:43.435 --> 00:15:45.355 bring you and your horse joy. 00:15:45.892 --> 00:15:50.452 For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com. 00:15:50.782 --> 00:15:51.712 See you on the next show. 00:15:52.124 --> 00:15:54.814 And please remember to press, subscribe and share.