WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.520 So, Jeff, do you want to know my choice? 2 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:02.160 Yes? 3 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:03.919 Hell, no Heaven? 4 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:05.160 Yes, Yes, there you go. 5 00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:08.160 I'm saying no to hell and I'm saying yes to heaven. 6 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:09.080 Do you like what I did there? 7 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.119 That's a good idea. Well, that's what we're talking about 8 00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:13.160 today for sure. He's Chris and I'm Jeff, and we're 9 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:28.039 the Bible guys. Okay, so it can be a big 10 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:28.440 one today. 11 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:30.359 Yeah, yeah, talking about Hell is always a big thing. 12 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.119 But before we get into that, we have a fun 13 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.640 little segment at the beginning that is entitled this or that, 14 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.280 which is really fun. Would you rather Yes? It's a 15 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:43.920 form of would you rather yes? And it's it's formed 16 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:46.359 like it's a question like this, which one would you 17 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:49.759 rather do? So number one we both have to vote, 18 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:56.159 would you rather get stranded in Antarctica or the Sahara Desert? 19 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.439 Oh? Wow, Antarctica? 20 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.799 I think so too, because I think freezing to death 21 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:07.439 is I've heard it's less painful than being scorched to death. 22 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:09.120 Oh I didn't know we were dying. I just thought 23 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:09.920 we were being stranded. 24 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.480 Stranded is dying? Is it? Well, you're not going to 25 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:14.840 get rescued from Antarctica? 26 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.680 Well, I don't know, so for me, the reason why 27 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:20.879 I want to do I haven't been on that continent yet. 28 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:24.040 Oh wow, you're thinking like an explorer. 29 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:28.120 So I've been in the Samari many times. That's fun both, 30 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.480 but I haven't. I haven't been in I haven't been 31 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:33.799 in Antartica yet, So you're just check it off the box. 32 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:38.280 At least if I'm dying, I really do want to go. 33 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:39.040 It's a bucket list. 34 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:44.519 Yeah, that's funny. Okay. Number two, that's hilarious. Would you 35 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:47.920 rather go on a wild vacation full of new experiences 36 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.879 you're already saying yes yes, or go on a super 37 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:54.120 relaxing vacation that leaves you well rested. 38 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:57.560 Oh wild, wild new adventures. 39 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:00.239 No question. Yeah, I'm I'm the first one every day time. 40 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:00.519 Yep. 41 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.799 Okay. Number three? Would you rather be Batman or Superman? 42 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.479 Is this even a question? Who wrote this? They should 43 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:09.039 be shot? 44 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:10.840 Yeah? Batman? 45 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:13.479 Stop it? You should be shot. 46 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:17.159 Yeah. I think Batman's super cool. I think Superman is 47 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:18.120 super nerdy. 48 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:21.120 By the way, if you shoot me and I'm Superman, huh, 49 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.400 it won't matter. Yeah. If you're Bruce Wayne and I 50 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:24.479 shoot you, you're dead. 51 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:25.759 That just means you have to be better. 52 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:28.680 No, it means you're not Superman. 53 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:29.879 Well, you've got a good outfit. 54 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.680 Batman is one of the biggest jokes of a superhero ever. 55 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.520 I think Batman is the best of all the superheroes 56 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:38.120 from the DC side. 57 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:39.439 Do you really? 58 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:42.120 Yeah? I do? Which is super cool? Hey, who doesn't 59 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:44.039 want to be a billionaire with much cool toys? The 60 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.199 rest of it's all fake, you know that, right? Well, 61 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:48.639 but I think I think Elon Musk might be I 62 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:50.599 think he might be a Batman just running around. 63 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:53.039 You're talking about Bruce Wayne. I would love to be 64 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:56.800 Bruce Wayne. Sure, Batman and his cool toys. Huh, it's 65 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:57.759 sort of ridiculous. 66 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.639 It's more, it's more believable than some guy fly around 67 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:03.120 in the sky because he wears a cape but can't 68 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:05.120 fight when somebody has a green rock bi not. 69 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.520 Even close to What are you talking about? If you're 70 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:11.800 going to take me into a world where Avatar exists 71 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.759 on Pandora, then I'm there. I must accept that to 72 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:15.800 enter into that world. 73 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:17.400 No, No, I get it, I get it. 74 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.439 But here's your world. Your world is Batman is just 75 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.800 a human who knows karate and he does all those things. 76 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.120 With gadgets. That is not a believable one. 77 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:27.080 I think it's super cool. 78 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:31.319 Okay, but okay, I'm angry. What made Chris mad? What 79 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:36.319 made Chris mad today? Okay? Number four? Would you rather 80 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:42.280 be illiterate forever? Or only read dictionaries in your free time? 81 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.919 M that's true. 82 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.639 That's a hard one. Only read dictionaries? 83 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:48.520 I think so too. 84 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:52.280 Yeah, yeah, that's that's but that's that's a really hard one. 85 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:57.159 I don't know. I may change my answer. Only that 86 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:59.639 means that every single waking moment. That's why I read it. 87 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.680 Time of your freaking just stay busy? Oh, I see? 88 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:07.680 Okay, and then at least you're educated, right. 89 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:10.039 Okay, well, all right, staying busy. I guess you'd have 90 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.800 to Okay, I guess. I just don't know what discretionary 91 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:19.519 time is. I guess right. Number five? Would you rather get? Oh? Oh, 92 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:23.120 I think this is written wrong. Would you rather cook 93 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:27.680 a five course meal with Dwayne the Rock Johnson or 94 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.319 get ice cream with Zach e From. 95 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:39.199 They said they said, would you rather don't cook five? 96 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.879 I the fact that they said get ice cream? 97 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.160 I don't even think we have to vote on that one. 98 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:54.560 We hlious. 99 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.079 So if you're new to the podcast. Early on in 100 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:03.079 the podcast, we had asked very early week number three, Yeah, 101 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:06.560 we had asked Chris ninety seven episodes ago, Yeah, who 102 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:10.120 do you want to play Chris Zarba in the Inevitable 103 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:14.040 movie Made of Your Life? And he immediately said He 104 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:18.040 immediately said Zach Efron from when he was in Baywatch, 105 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.120 because he was perfect. And I was like, didn't Dwayne 106 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:21.920 the Rock Johnson? 107 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.000 First? He did not say it that way, because wow, 108 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:27.639 that's the way you heard it when you. 109 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.720 Were objecting about his abs and his muscles. 110 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.319 And I did not say because he was perfect. 111 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:34.560 And then you told us that he can sing and dance. Remember, 112 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.279 I believe so we made him better than you the 113 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.319 rest of us. Yes, yeses, but of course the Rock 114 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.160 isn't made better than us. 115 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.560 He's okay, big huge guys. Anyway. 116 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.399 Uh the uh, so I think we know how to vote? 117 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:51.240 Went which so. 118 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:54.800 Great about this is the cook It's it's the fact 119 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.199 that they said cook a five course meal. And then 120 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:02.360 thentithesis is good, go get ice cream. It's so great. 121 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:10.600 It's so sophisticated, very good to say, really funny, oh funny, okay, 122 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:14.000 so so uh and by the way, given these two 123 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.920 number one, I don't cook right and number two because 124 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:22.199 I would rather meet Zach Effron than Rock Johnson, the 125 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:25.560 answer would legitimately be go to ice cream with Zach Eron. 126 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.959 It would legitimately be that, which is even funnier. 127 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:31.600 Thank you so much for that moment. 128 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.920 Yes, you're welcome, Oh Mercy. Well, let's talk about hell. 129 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:38.680 There's a transition. 130 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:40.639 We just put all of our listeners through it. So 131 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:47.560 that's the well, hey, uh, yesterday for those it's a 132 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:49.600 hard transition. How do we transition out of it? That 133 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:54.120 was so unexpected? Okay, So yesterday we finished up with 134 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:58.720 the Great White Throne judgment, right, that judgment, the ultimate 135 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.759 judgment of God, sorting out those that were believers in 136 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.360 Christ whose name was found written in the Lamb's Book 137 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.720 of Life versus those who had rejected him and their 138 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.639 name was not found, and then he casts death and 139 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.800 hell and the grave all into thinks. So we're going 140 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.079 to summarize that again, and then we're going to unpack 141 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.160 the idea of hell and how do you go there? 142 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:19.160 In the idea of heaven and how do you go there? 143 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.000 So let's transition to something more serious. Go here, we go. 144 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.639 Revelation chapter twenty. Let me pick up where we ended yesterday. 145 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:28.160 It says, then death and the grave were thrown into 146 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.800 the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the 147 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:33.839 second death, and anyone whose name was not found recorded 148 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.120 the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire. 149 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:37.079 Yeah. 150 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:42.680 I think my least favorite idea in existence is the 151 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:43.319 idea of hell. 152 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:44.199 Yeah. 153 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.319 I hate sure, I hate the idea of hell. 154 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:51.240 Well, it's actually a tension point for most Christians. In 155 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.240 other words, like, I'm talking about the actual doctrine of hell. Yeah, 156 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:59.040 the doctrine of somebody suffering that God would create it, 157 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:03.680 allow it, that whole thing in my experience, and I've 158 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.600 been a pastor for thirty one years. I'm not sure 159 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.360 what your experience is. But I thought about this coming 160 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:10.920 in because we knew. I knew we were going to 161 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.439 be talking about this, and I actually thought to myself, 162 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.319 I was trying to put a percentage on it. And 163 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:21.959 I think this is true. I think the struggle is real, 164 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.680 and I think that whenever talking about the actual reality 165 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.680 and the doctrine of Hell, I think seventy percent of 166 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.600 the people that I talk with about it struggle with 167 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:38.080 the idea that this is the way things are. They 168 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:41.960 just they're just uncomfortable with like like, like they believe 169 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:45.320 in God. They believe that what God's word says is true, 170 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.639 and if this is how God says things are going 171 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:49.879 to play out, and this is the reality of things, 172 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.080 then they believe in completely accept that, But they just 173 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.120 struggle with the idea that it is that way. And 174 00:08:57.159 --> 00:08:59.840 I got to be honest, I do too, So it 175 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.200 is it is. It is one of those things about 176 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:04.519 you know, you know again, you can you do the 177 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:06.559 flip coin of that. The flip side of the coin 178 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.679 is when you start to understand the righteousness of God, 179 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:12.519 when you understand the goodness of God, the fairness of God, 180 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.360 the patience of God, you know, the the idea of 181 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.720 of good and evil and and I mean all of 182 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:21.840 those things, Like it helps you understand the doctrine of 183 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:25.720 hell more and and and and and it understands you 184 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:29.759 understand it almost completely. But the struggle is still real 185 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:31.440 and it's just the way it is. 186 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:37.200 So I think for me struggling through this this idea 187 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:43.399 of hell, where I kind of came to settling in 188 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:51.720 was logically because my emotions say, no way it's not fair, 189 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.919 it's not reasonable, it's horrific. So that's my emotions. But 190 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.919 my logic brought me to this conclusion, which, by the way, 191 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.240 you know Jeremiah, God says, come, let's reason together, says 192 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.320 the Lord. Right, So God uses logic. My logic came 193 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:11.159 to this either I as a limited human and by 194 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.240 the way, as a human, I can't see very far 195 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:16.480 and I can't see very much. It's one of the 196 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.240 reasons why some of my atheist friends are confusing. To me. 197 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:21.879 It would be much more intellectually honest to be an 198 00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:24.679 agnostic than it would be to be an atheist, because 199 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:26.960 an atheist is claiming to have total knowledge, and it's 200 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.320 just not possible as a human. Even as a Christian 201 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:32.159 who confident that God is true, I don't have total knowledge. 202 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:36.799 I can't know write everything. So with as a person 203 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:42.279 who knows little and can't see very far. Am I 204 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:47.720 really saying that my morality is greater than God's morality? Right? 205 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:51.000 That God is slightly less moral than me because I 206 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:55.399 wouldn't do hell but God does. Or the flip side 207 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:58.919 of that logical coin is or am I missing something? 208 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:03.840 Am I minimizing? Sing? How horrific hell is, I mean sin, 209 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:10.600 how horrific sin is, And then I'm missing how extraordinary 210 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:15.440 God's grace is. He could have just made only hell, 211 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:19.559 but instead to wipe out and judge everything that's evil, 212 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.600 because evil is the antithesis of God. He could have 213 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:27.279 just made Hell be the thing and totally obliterate all 214 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:33.000 things that commit sin. But instead, how extraordinarily good and 215 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.840 beautiful is his grace that he was willing to pay 216 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:37.200 the price for me. He was willing to go to 217 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.919 heal through Hell for me in order for me to 218 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.600 have eternal life with him, even though I'm a sinner. 219 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.559 And that's where Romans five eight is, I'm telling you 220 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.639 one of my favorite verses in the Bible. But God 221 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.240 demonstrates his own love for us, and this while we 222 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:56.120 were still sinners. Christ died for us. So if I 223 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.759 can really appreciate the fact that hell is the only 224 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.600 thing anything that has ever sinned deserves, and yet he 225 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:05.799 demonstrates his love by paying the price so I don't 226 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:09.279 have to go there, that really makes him an extraordinary 227 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.080 hero in this story. Not evil, not not bad, And 228 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.240 it's certainly my morality. A God who's willing to extend 229 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.159 grace has a higher level of morality than I do, 230 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:21.720 because he extends grace far more often than I do. 231 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:23.879 So then I have to just settle in and go, Okay, 232 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.000 what do I do with Hell? And I believe in 233 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.840 hell because Jesus believed in hell. That's that's that's it. 234 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.080 It comes down to that, I'm not more moral than God. Yeah, 235 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.039 and I believe in hell because Jesus does. 236 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:38.399 So there's there's three there's different words for Hell mentioned 237 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.840 all the way throughout the scriptures, and there's sort of 238 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:47.720 three categories. Uh one is known as Shiel, one is Gehenna, 239 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.840 or the lake of fire, and then one is Hades. 240 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:57.279 Hades is almost exclusively referred to as a place not 241 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.360 of torment, but just a place of. 242 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:00.720 Death, of the dead, of the dead. 243 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:03.000 It's just the place of the dead. And when it 244 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:05.759 translates into Hades, that's that's the way that translates. 245 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:10.200 It's sometimes translated in modern translations as the grave. 246 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.879 The grave. That's right, that's it, that's exactly right. I 247 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:14.559 think if that whenever I think of Hades, I think 248 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:18.320 of the grim reaper, that old, that old, fake image. 249 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.879 And then and then there's Gehenna, and Gehenna was a 250 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.120 literal you know place. It was actually southwest, just outside 251 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:32.559 of Jerusalem. And Jeremiah the prophet referred to Gehenna way 252 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:34.559 back then because it used to be a place of 253 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.519 human sacrifice and then and then it became a place 254 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.720 destined to be a place of where they threw their 255 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.919 garbage and their unwanted things, and they constantly burned it, 256 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:49.519 perpetually burning dump. And it was it was, it was. 257 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.519 The flames never went out, and so whenever they referred 258 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.320 to Ghinnah, which is why people have a little bit 259 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.120 different interpretations like oh, jeez, was just using a visual aid, 260 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.120 you know that kind of thing, like you know it. 261 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.519 But there's a lot of debate about that. But but 262 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.000 what is clear is is that it is. It is 263 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.799 a place of fire. It is it is a place 264 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.559 of uh. It seems like it's torment. It's referred to 265 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.000 as you know, weeping and gnashing of teeth. And and 266 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:21.240 then Jesus uses another word uh that says darkness. Right, 267 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.000 he said, there'll be there'll be darkness forever. And by 268 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.480 the way, this is probably a good time because I 269 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.600 mentioned both of those things to talk about how there 270 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.639 are different opinions about hell, like like what like there 271 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.720 there's a minority view that says that they think that 272 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.919 everybody will get be given a chance to repent after 273 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.840 death before hell, right, and that and that people won't 274 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.759 you know, have to be subject to Hell because now 275 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:48.960 they realize who God is, they'll be given a chance. 276 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:53.480 And then another another minority belief is that Hell will 277 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:57.159 eventually be evacuated and that it is a temporary torment 278 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:59.440 and that people will be given a chance to respond 279 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:01.879 and and then you know, God and his grace and 280 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:06.159 his mercy will eventually evacuate all of Hell. And then 281 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:10.720 then there's another minority view, uh because because the majority 282 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.000 of view is the literal things that we just talked about. 283 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.960 But another minority view says that that Jesus wasn't talking 284 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.200 about like almost like there is a place, but it's 285 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.399 not quite literally a place of torment because Jesus, you know, 286 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.120 I talked about fire and total darkness and those things 287 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:34.360 cannot coexist. And so he's using metaphorical examples in the 288 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.440 same way that he's using you know, uh, you know, 289 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:42.559 other other landmarks that he would often refer to, and uh, 290 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.600 you know, like just just like in Revelation we just 291 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.720 read about like grape juice flowing from a wine press 292 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:51.679 and and things like that, and so, uh, those are 293 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.639 those are different views of Hell. And I believe that 294 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.960 those those are people trying to take the limited information 295 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:00.440 that we are given and they're trying to reckon the 296 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.039 goodness of God. They're trying to reconcile you know, the 297 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.600 logic of it, like you said, and the emotions of it. 298 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:14.240 But most theologians believe what is written, which is Hell 299 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.279 is a literal place. Either way, whether it's fire and 300 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.559 darkness going existing or not, it is very clear that 301 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.639 you don't want to go there. And it's a it's 302 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.600 a definite separation of God, and it is a place 303 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:33.840 of misery and eternal torment, an internal torment. Yeah. 304 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.600 Yeah, So I believe in Hell because Jesus believed in Hell. 305 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:39.080 Yep. 306 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.159 And in Luke chapter sixteen, Jesus tells the famous story 307 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:45.799 of rich Man and Lazarus, and he says, and he 308 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.080 went to the place of the dead, and there in torment, 309 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.559 he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at 310 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.480 his side. Rich Man shouted, Father, Abraham, have some pity, 311 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.519 send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his 312 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.960 finger in water and cool my tongue. I'm in anguish 313 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:02.919 in these flames now here. He's talking about out pre crucifixion, 314 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.920 all these kinds of things. So there was a concept 315 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.599 of two sides to Haites. There's the torment side and 316 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.160 the paradise side, right, Yeah, it was just the sheel 317 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:14.839 version right right, right. And some people believe that when 318 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.000 the Bible says that Jesus went and took the captivity 319 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:19.680 captive after his death, that that's what he did, is 320 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:22.319 he cleaned out the paradise side, right, So who knows that. 321 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.240 But Jesus does describe this eternal consequence for evil versus good. 322 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.279 Jesus said that hell wasn't for us, it was for 323 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.200 the devil and his demons, right, he says, But in 324 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:38.400 what is this Matthew twenty five, Yep, Matthew twenty five. 325 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.240 Jesus says, but when the Son of Man came in 326 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:43.160 his glory and all the angels with him, then he 327 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.599 will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations 328 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.960 will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate 329 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.440 the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 330 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:52.839 He placed the sheep at his right hand and the 331 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.079 goats at his left. And then the King will say 332 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.880 to those on his right, come, you are blessed by 333 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:00.839 my father and inherit the King, and prepared for you 334 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.640 from the creation of the world. And then in verse 335 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.000 twenty four, it says, then the King will turn to 336 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.079 those on the left and say, away with you, you 337 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.680 cursed ones, into the eternal fire, prepared for the devil 338 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:12.400 and his demons. 339 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.279 Yeah. Verse forty one you said twenty four. 340 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.039 Yeah, oh, I'm sorry forty one. Yeah. 341 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.720 Yeah, and so and that sounds pretty clear to me. 342 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:20.240 Yeah, Jesus is pretty clear on this. 343 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.200 Yeah. So it's it's so regardless of the details of 344 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:28.440 how exactly you know the environment is, yeah, you know, 345 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.319 the end result seems to be very clear. 346 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:32.920 And this is Jesus' version of what we talked about 347 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.240 yesterday at the Great White Throne. Jesus is saying, I'm 348 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.079 going to be the judge and I'm sorting them out. Right. 349 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.319 So the one who paid the price for us is 350 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.279 the one with the Lamb's book of life. He's the lamb, 351 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.400 and he's saying, either your name is in the Lamb's 352 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.440 Book of Life, or it's not. And so he separates 353 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.839 a sheet from the goats. And then, as we mentioned yesterday, 354 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:54.279 there's no middle ground. Right at the final judgment. The 355 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:56.720 Lord isn't really being slow about his promise as some 356 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.079 people think. No, he's being patient for your sake. He 357 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.799 doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 358 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.640 God's allowing time to play out because he wants us 359 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:08.200 to be able to go to heaven, which is the 360 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.519 other side of this conversation, right, which leads us into 361 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.079 Revelation Chapter twenty two. Said the Spirit and the bride 362 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.920 say come. Let anyone who hears this say come. Let 363 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:21.039 anyone who's thirsty come, and let anyone who desires drink 364 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.599 freely from the water of life. Jesus said, he is 365 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.680 the water of life, right, And so the Bible is 366 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.119 just saying anybody who will come, whosoever will may come. 367 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:31.319 Is what the King James would say. 368 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.799 I think of what he said to the woman at 369 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.799 the well when he says, the water that I give 370 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.279 anybody who drinks will never thirst again. Yeah, And he 371 00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:41.640 talks about, you know, the well spring coming up and 372 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.359 I love how in Revelation and we have this image 373 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:47.559 of Jesus, you know, the conquering hero at the end, 374 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.559 and he's still referred to well, you know, well not him, 375 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.480 he's not referred to that. But but the eternity, the 376 00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:58.200 invitation of Jesus through Jesus refer to the water of life. 377 00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.480 That's right, which is so cool. 378 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.839 So it literally says, let anyone who's thirsty come, whosoever 379 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.319 will may come. And so then, which. 380 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.839 Means the invitation of hope is offered to every single 381 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:09.319 one of us. 382 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.319 Evil will be judged, and that's a good thing. We 383 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.519 all want evil to be judged. We just don't want 384 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:17.880 our evil to be judged. And so he's saying, listen, 385 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:20.640 whosoever will may come. So then, Jesus says in John three, 386 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.039 remember when he's talking to Nicodemus, Jesus replied, I tell 387 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.160 you the truth. Unless you're born again, you cannot see 388 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.319 the Kingdom of God. He's saying, there's a moment when 389 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.200 you go from death to being born again. You are 390 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.039 dead in your sins, and then you can be born 391 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.160 again in Christ, as you're saying. And unless this happens, 392 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.759 unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom 393 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:43.240 of God. So then the question is how. In John 394 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:46.039 fourteen six, Jesus said, I am the Way, I'm the Truth, 395 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.279 I'm the Life. No one comes to the Father except 396 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.440 through me. So Jesus is making it clear. Heaven and 397 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.440 Hell are a choice. Hell was never made for humanity. 398 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.680 It was made for the devil and his demons. But 399 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.119 if we reject Christ, our name's not it found in 400 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:02.599 the Book of Life, then there is no hope. 401 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.599