WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.773 --> 00:00:07.853 Matt: Hi Um, this is kind of an old school ADHd20 in that, we're 00:00:07.853 --> 00:00:09.693 less prepared than we have been. 00:00:12.503 --> 00:00:13.613 We used to like winging. 00:00:13.953 --> 00:00:18.338 Alison: We do still have one of our primary tenets, which is an outline that 00:00:18.338 --> 00:00:21.038 we're gonna possibly throw out the window. 00:00:21.233 --> 00:00:21.833 Matt: Exactly. 00:00:21.833 --> 00:00:22.133 Yeah. 00:00:22.478 --> 00:00:25.668 Alison: So we just keep getting throwbackier and throwbackier. 00:00:25.688 --> 00:00:26.258 I love it. 00:00:26.408 --> 00:00:27.578 I love the good throwback 00:00:28.398 --> 00:00:29.528 Matt: Throwbackier. 00:00:30.363 --> 00:00:32.443 Alison: Throwbackier! 00:00:33.003 --> 00:00:33.473 Matt: Throwbackier! 00:00:33.496 --> 00:00:37.246 Alison: I often say like if I need assistance, I will find 00:00:37.246 --> 00:00:38.506 myself calling for an adult. 00:00:38.506 --> 00:00:38.896 Like help. 00:00:38.896 --> 00:00:39.616 I need an adult. 00:00:40.096 --> 00:00:43.426 And people try and point out, but Alison, you are an adult. 00:00:43.516 --> 00:00:45.076 To which I reply, right? 00:00:45.076 --> 00:00:46.546 But I need an adultier adult. 00:00:46.626 --> 00:00:49.681 Matt: Adultier adult, yes. 00:00:49.681 --> 00:00:52.336 Alison: Throwbackier throwback is just, fits right into that 00:00:52.366 --> 00:00:53.926 little lexicon I've got going on. 00:00:54.396 --> 00:00:57.751 Matt: Lexiconier lexicon? 00:00:58.002 --> 00:00:58.512 That's true. 00:00:59.712 --> 00:01:02.052 Uh, what are we going to speak, uh, about? 00:01:02.112 --> 00:01:02.592 Oh, yes. 00:01:02.597 --> 00:01:02.952 Sorry. 00:01:02.952 --> 00:01:10.572 First we have to say, Welcome everybody to ADHd20, A podcast where 00:01:10.572 --> 00:01:17.582 we try to find the intersection between ADHD and D&D and or RPGs. 00:01:17.749 --> 00:01:18.979 Alison: In 2023. 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.462 We haven't, settled on if we're saying D&D or RPGs, and 00:01:22.462 --> 00:01:23.992 I'm okay with being unsettled. 00:01:24.742 --> 00:01:24.862 Matt: Yeah. 00:01:24.992 --> 00:01:28.657 I wonder what we're gonna feel like after Gary Con, in just a few short 00:01:28.657 --> 00:01:34.567 weeks where we are going to be playing a ton of foreign RPGs and maybe 00:01:34.567 --> 00:01:37.567 we will just be just swept away. 00:01:38.007 --> 00:01:43.417 Alison: Mattie, we could potentially record the next episode of ADHd20 00:01:43.954 --> 00:01:47.914 live together with our friend Fitz. 00:01:49.531 --> 00:01:50.411 There it is. 00:01:50.544 --> 00:01:52.374 Matt: You absolutely are correct. 00:01:52.374 --> 00:01:53.724 We can definitely do that. 00:01:53.811 --> 00:01:56.421 Alison: Are we gonna just follow Fitz around with that sound effect? 00:01:57.171 --> 00:02:00.411 You know, like we're gonna be together live in person and you're gonna be like, 00:02:00.411 --> 00:02:01.761 Alison, what do you want for dinner? 00:02:01.761 --> 00:02:03.786 And I'm gonna say, I don't know Fitz. 00:02:03.786 --> 00:02:04.821 What are you feeling? 00:02:04.821 --> 00:02:05.211 And 00:02:06.621 --> 00:02:10.491 Matt: I bet you, I bet you I could create a Siri shortcut. 00:02:10.971 --> 00:02:13.311 Alison: I was gonna say, let's creep her out and do it, but this 00:02:13.341 --> 00:02:16.311 episode will be out before that. 00:02:16.311 --> 00:02:16.641 So 00:02:16.761 --> 00:02:17.841 Matt: Yeah, that's true. 00:02:17.981 --> 00:02:18.611 Alison: Surprise, Fitz. 00:02:18.626 --> 00:02:20.661 We're gonna follow you around with your own sound effect. 00:02:20.691 --> 00:02:21.231 You're welcome. 00:02:22.391 --> 00:02:23.001 Matt: Creepy. 00:02:24.411 --> 00:02:25.581 Alison: Creepy, creepy, 00:02:25.581 --> 00:02:26.031 Matt: Creepy 00:02:26.031 --> 00:02:28.551 Alison: Speaking of Fitz, she actually submitted a question that 00:02:28.761 --> 00:02:30.411 we're gonna tackle here in a few. 00:02:30.501 --> 00:02:34.131 But first, shall we ADHd100? 00:02:34.691 --> 00:02:36.791 Matt: Yes, yes. 00:02:38.451 --> 00:02:38.841 All right. 00:02:38.841 --> 00:02:39.891 Who wants to go first? 00:02:40.119 --> 00:02:42.279 Alison: I will this time. 00:02:42.789 --> 00:02:44.769 I'm number 25. 00:02:45.474 --> 00:02:46.044 Matt: 25. 00:02:47.094 --> 00:02:51.054 What items have you crossed off your bucket list? 00:02:51.592 --> 00:02:51.982 Alison: Oh. 00:02:52.702 --> 00:02:55.702 Um, have I crossed any items off my bucket list? 00:02:55.882 --> 00:03:01.162 My current working bucket list is I do I want to see a concert or a show of 00:03:01.162 --> 00:03:04.237 some sort in every state in the country. 00:03:04.297 --> 00:03:08.137 Because I think that there's a lot of cool venues in, in, I mean, all over 00:03:08.137 --> 00:03:10.987 the world, but I think the United States of America is a great place to start. 00:03:11.257 --> 00:03:14.587 Uh, not even close to accomplishing that bucket list, although I 00:03:14.587 --> 00:03:17.797 do have a very strong showing across the eastern seaboard. 00:03:18.037 --> 00:03:20.557 I'm vamping for time here while I try and figure out if there's anything 00:03:20.557 --> 00:03:23.497 cool I can answer this with, um, 00:03:24.787 --> 00:03:25.837 Matt: That's pretty cool. 00:03:25.837 --> 00:03:26.977 You like music? 00:03:27.097 --> 00:03:27.577 That's 00:03:27.817 --> 00:03:29.047 Alison: But, but I haven't done it. 00:03:29.107 --> 00:03:33.597 And so that's not answering the question, which is have you, um, I'm, I don't know 00:03:33.597 --> 00:03:38.187 if it was ever bucket list, but like having a podcast is, is kind of up there. 00:03:38.284 --> 00:03:41.074 I used to wanna be a radio dj, like really super badly. 00:03:41.584 --> 00:03:46.804 So getting, yeah, getting my voice onto the airwaves was, was a big thing for me. 00:03:47.014 --> 00:03:51.394 And I'll also say that going on tour with that fun little band was 00:03:51.784 --> 00:03:55.534 like, I wanted to be, performing on said tour, but I, like, I was, I 00:03:55.534 --> 00:03:56.974 was close enough to count, I think. 00:03:57.274 --> 00:04:01.294 So we'll, consider those two things headway that I've made on the bucket list. 00:04:01.564 --> 00:04:02.644 Matt: Nice. 00:04:03.004 --> 00:04:03.784 I love that. 00:04:04.057 --> 00:04:08.775 Um, Oh my gosh, I got a one. 00:04:09.890 --> 00:04:10.380 Alison: Whoa. 00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:12.930 Okay. 00:04:12.930 --> 00:04:16.170 Tell us about the first D&D character you ever built. 00:04:16.630 --> 00:04:17.220 Do you remember? 00:04:17.275 --> 00:04:19.130 Matt: Oh, Oh no. 00:04:19.395 --> 00:04:23.595 I don't really remember as I was 10 years old. 00:04:25.755 --> 00:04:26.745 And I'm sad about that. 00:04:26.835 --> 00:04:32.048 I spent this summer hoping to find buried treasure in a, in a, storage space. 00:04:32.468 --> 00:04:33.608 And I came up empty. 00:04:33.728 --> 00:04:39.298 I was hoping I was gonna find little Matt Bivins' binder full of D&D 00:04:39.314 --> 00:04:42.138 stuff, but don't know, still missing. 00:04:42.618 --> 00:04:46.802 Um, I guess I could say more about the more recent, right? 00:04:47.352 --> 00:04:51.703 Uh, I, created a half drow elf who... 00:04:51.903 --> 00:04:59.988 name was Feilimid and Feilimid was female, but had spent many, many years in hiding, 00:05:00.468 --> 00:05:04.085 uh, being hunted by her Drow family. 00:05:04.170 --> 00:05:08.903 And, so Feilimid in to go into hiding presented as a boy. 00:05:09.083 --> 00:05:13.943 So when we started playing, uh, my character was male, and then there 00:05:13.943 --> 00:05:19.523 was this big reveal where Feidlimid Oh no, actually Feilimid was female. 00:05:20.653 --> 00:05:21.143 Alison: What? 00:05:21.683 --> 00:05:22.173 Matt: What? 00:05:24.113 --> 00:05:25.313 So that was really fun though. 00:05:25.313 --> 00:05:27.503 And Feilimid was a bard. 00:05:27.567 --> 00:05:28.107 Oh 00:05:28.107 --> 00:05:28.987 Alison: So fun. 00:05:29.762 --> 00:05:30.637 love Fei. 00:05:30.897 --> 00:05:31.467 Matt: I know. 00:05:31.767 --> 00:05:32.687 Good old Fei 00:05:33.030 --> 00:05:36.705 Alison: Look how far we have come from our first characters to now. 00:05:36.705 --> 00:05:38.090 Matt: Look how wise we are. 00:05:38.880 --> 00:05:40.300 Alison: Wizened! 00:05:40.590 --> 00:05:40.700 Sage! 00:05:40.700 --> 00:05:41.670 Matt: So wizened. 00:05:42.227 --> 00:05:43.067 Alison: What a great word. 00:05:43.067 --> 00:05:45.068 Matt: I know, I know. 00:05:45.068 --> 00:05:47.378 I was about to say this same word, which is amazing. 00:05:48.578 --> 00:05:50.048 All right, well that was fun. 00:05:50.163 --> 00:05:50.773 Alison: Always. 00:05:51.058 --> 00:05:52.288 Matt: Got a couple of topics today. 00:05:52.418 --> 00:05:55.648 I think we should start with Fitz's perhaps. 00:05:56.028 --> 00:06:00.648 Alison: So we have a sweet little Discord server that we grow more 00:06:00.648 --> 00:06:02.208 and more obsessed with by the day. 00:06:02.718 --> 00:06:06.408 Uh, and like to kind of poll the crowd from time to time and see if 00:06:06.408 --> 00:06:12.288 there's any ADHD or TTRPG things that we haven't brought up or haven't, 00:06:12.678 --> 00:06:15.378 haven't delved enough into detail yet. 00:06:15.858 --> 00:06:21.748 So, Fitz asked a great question, and that is, I'd love to know if y'all are hit by 00:06:21.753 --> 00:06:24.718 the ADHD tax, and if so, in what ways? 00:06:25.168 --> 00:06:26.788 Are they the same or different? 00:06:26.878 --> 00:06:29.428 Are there hidden costs that you've been hit up with 00:06:29.638 --> 00:06:31.918 specifically in the TTRPG space? 00:06:31.948 --> 00:06:33.658 Because of the ADHD tax? 00:06:33.678 --> 00:06:34.258 Matt: I love it. 00:06:34.371 --> 00:06:39.051 Okay, so first let's go over what the ADHD tax is. 00:06:39.171 --> 00:06:39.861 Um, 00:06:39.951 --> 00:06:40.761 Alison: My suggestion too 00:06:41.391 --> 00:06:48.098 Matt: Yeah, so okay from ADDitude, the website, ADDitude, which is 00:06:48.098 --> 00:06:50.918 actually, you know, one of the, one of the main ADHD websites. 00:06:51.848 --> 00:06:57.625 Uh, It says the tax is why people with ADHD compared to non ADHD 00:06:57.630 --> 00:07:01.728 peers, they're poorer in financial situations and exhibit difficulties 00:07:01.728 --> 00:07:03.288 with financial decision making. 00:07:03.348 --> 00:07:08.238 Number one, they exhibit poorer financial competency and capacity. 00:07:08.718 --> 00:07:12.618 They are more financially dependent on family members and they earn 00:07:12.618 --> 00:07:18.471 less and attain lower socioeconomic standing over their lifetimes. 00:07:18.775 --> 00:07:23.365 It's the obvious and the hidden costs of living with the condition. 00:07:23.425 --> 00:07:28.465 And so like they, they give examples of I had to go to the city 00:07:28.465 --> 00:07:30.595 courthouse for overdue library books. 00:07:30.595 --> 00:07:32.485 The library books were in the trunk of my car. 00:07:32.485 --> 00:07:33.685 They belonged to the library. 00:07:33.690 --> 00:07:37.015 I drove by every day on my way to work, accruing fines. 00:07:37.275 --> 00:07:39.175 I'm years behind on taxes. 00:07:39.338 --> 00:07:41.678 Because doing the taxes is difficult. 00:07:42.518 --> 00:07:45.851 I waste so much time shopping for groceries that only end up going bad. 00:07:45.941 --> 00:07:48.971 I waste even more money buying fast food. 00:07:49.105 --> 00:07:49.715 Alison: Mm-hmm. 00:07:50.155 --> 00:07:51.115 Matt: those kinds of things. 00:07:51.311 --> 00:07:51.551 Alison: Yep. 00:07:51.551 --> 00:07:51.921 We 00:07:51.921 --> 00:07:53.711 Matt: pay for that and I, we do, I do. 00:07:53.921 --> 00:07:54.401 I don't know about 00:07:54.566 --> 00:07:55.496 Alison: Oh, I definitely do. 00:07:55.736 --> 00:08:00.053 I, the grocery one is huge to the point where I, I have rearranged my 00:08:00.053 --> 00:08:06.323 refrigerator so that, like, one of the popular TikTok trends for ADHD and other 00:08:06.323 --> 00:08:12.863 executive dysfunction management thereof is putting your condiments in the, uh, 00:08:12.863 --> 00:08:15.023 in the, the fruit and veggie drawers. 00:08:15.113 --> 00:08:15.953 Yeah, the crisper. 00:08:16.163 --> 00:08:18.653 Cuz you're gonna, like, if you want mustard for your sandwich, you're gonna go 00:08:18.653 --> 00:08:24.053 find the mustard, but you have to put the asparagus and the apples front and center. 00:08:24.053 --> 00:08:27.803 So every time you open that, and I have done that and it really does help. 00:08:28.126 --> 00:08:28.606 Um, 00:08:28.636 --> 00:08:30.461 Matt: I have found a problem with that though. 00:08:30.671 --> 00:08:33.041 Uh, now my vegetables are not as crisp. 00:08:36.324 --> 00:08:39.618 Alison: Maybe you just need to do like more short bursts more 00:08:40.048 --> 00:08:41.178 frequently to the grocery store. 00:08:41.208 --> 00:08:44.568 I've also written myself notes, you know, so maybe you could put 00:08:44.568 --> 00:08:47.628 everything back in the crisper but write yourself a little love note on 00:08:47.658 --> 00:08:49.578 the door and say, Matt, don't forget. 00:08:50.241 --> 00:08:54.891 My favorite, uh, part of the ADHD tax is how willfully ignorant the 00:08:54.896 --> 00:08:59.251 rest of the population is about it, case in point, I, use HelloFresh. 00:09:00.021 --> 00:09:05.661 So subscription-based meal boxes and subscription-based things are terrible 00:09:05.661 --> 00:09:07.611 for people with ADHD cuz we forget. 00:09:08.151 --> 00:09:10.588 I forgot I had, skipped several weeks in a row. 00:09:10.588 --> 00:09:13.798 So I, I wasn't thinking about it since it had been so long since I'd ordered 00:09:13.798 --> 00:09:16.258 a box that somehow a week crept in. 00:09:16.588 --> 00:09:19.758 Suddenly I got charged the same day I went to the grocery store and 00:09:19.758 --> 00:09:20.858 bought a week's worth of groceries. 00:09:20.858 --> 00:09:24.858 So then it was like double burn that I had just gone and spent the fortune 00:09:24.858 --> 00:09:28.398 that now groceries cost, and then also got charged again for a box that 00:09:28.398 --> 00:09:33.315 was coming, So I tried to chat their help line and say, could, could you 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:35.535 give me a a hall pass on this, please? 00:09:35.941 --> 00:09:39.541 And they had all these excuses for why, well, we've already printed the slip 00:09:39.541 --> 00:09:43.441 and in the end I got half the cost of the box back and still received the box. 00:09:43.441 --> 00:09:45.091 So it wasn't the end of the world. 00:09:45.901 --> 00:09:48.991 Um, And the, the agent's, you know, fix for it was, just 00:09:48.991 --> 00:09:50.101 set a calendar reminder for 00:09:50.171 --> 00:09:51.601 Matt: No, they actually said 00:09:51.691 --> 00:09:52.681 Alison: They said that. 00:09:52.741 --> 00:09:53.251 Yeah. 00:09:54.041 --> 00:09:54.531 Matt: Rude. 00:09:55.641 --> 00:09:59.249 Alison: Yeah, I had tweeted, uh, a couple of weeks ago, I am notoriously 00:09:59.249 --> 00:10:04.199 bad at putting a soda in the freezer to get it really icy cold. 00:10:06.479 --> 00:10:10.949 99 times out of a hundred I forget about it, and come back to an exploded soda. 00:10:10.954 --> 00:10:14.189 And so I, I, I wrote a very quippy tweet of like, I'm just a girl 00:10:14.189 --> 00:10:17.626 standing in front of future versions of herself, asking her to please 00:10:17.626 --> 00:10:19.786 stop putting sodas in the freezer. 00:10:20.086 --> 00:10:20.406 Matt: The freezer. 00:10:21.301 --> 00:10:24.091 Alison: So many well-meaning people were like, oh, set a timer. 00:10:25.081 --> 00:10:26.041 Oh, oh. 00:10:26.041 --> 00:10:27.091 If it was that easy. 00:10:27.241 --> 00:10:27.841 Okay. 00:10:28.261 --> 00:10:31.501 Um, so, and I know that these are real things that a lot of people 00:10:31.501 --> 00:10:36.121 do, so they don't do exactly that, but it is, it is not my, you have 00:10:36.121 --> 00:10:37.291 to get into the flow state with it. 00:10:37.291 --> 00:10:37.441 Right. 00:10:37.441 --> 00:10:40.891 You have to remember, drink goes in freezer, timer goes on phone, and I just 00:10:40.891 --> 00:10:44.191 have yet to figure out part B of that. 00:10:44.191 --> 00:10:44.551 So yeah. 00:10:44.551 --> 00:10:46.681 ADHD tax all over the place here. 00:10:46.891 --> 00:10:50.051 I've been trying this whole time to think of though, cuz Fitz's question 00:10:50.056 --> 00:10:53.461 was, are there hidden costs you've been hit up specifically in the 00:10:53.466 --> 00:10:55.396 tabletop role playing game space? 00:10:55.426 --> 00:10:56.016 Matt: Yes. 00:10:56.076 --> 00:11:03.420 Um, right now, currently my tax is supporting all of the, 00:11:03.420 --> 00:11:05.980 incredible Patreon artists. 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:08.591 I have to, okay. 00:11:08.591 --> 00:11:14.051 I have to actually set a monthly task that keeps vomiting up, that 00:11:14.051 --> 00:11:19.631 says, check your subscriptions on Patreon, because I usually join them 00:11:19.631 --> 00:11:21.911 to get something, which is fine. 00:11:21.916 --> 00:11:23.171 You can, you're allowed to do that. 00:11:23.171 --> 00:11:25.511 That's the thing about You can jump on and off. 00:11:26.021 --> 00:11:29.910 Uh, so I get on and I get what I want and then, you know, but I have 00:11:29.910 --> 00:11:32.760 to remember to move things around. 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:34.350 So I'm definitely hit by that. 00:11:34.355 --> 00:11:42.350 I would say 95% of my Patreon, the people that I'm supporting at Patreon are RPG. 00:11:42.770 --> 00:11:49.746 I also have a problem with buying rules and, adventures 00:11:49.836 --> 00:11:53.776 and just guides of all kind. 00:11:53.926 --> 00:11:56.596 I just can't seem to not do that. 00:11:57.016 --> 00:11:58.366 And they're all great. 00:11:58.426 --> 00:12:03.073 I'm never disappointed, but it's a tax because it's not necessary 00:12:03.073 --> 00:12:05.803 and it's difficult for me to, um, 00:12:05.928 --> 00:12:06.618 Alison: Oh yeah. 00:12:07.338 --> 00:12:11.658 I was very convinced that I needed the newly released hardcover 00:12:11.658 --> 00:12:14.448 Taldori Reborn campaign setting. 00:12:15.108 --> 00:12:18.168 You wanna guess how many times I have flipped open that beautiful book? 00:12:18.168 --> 00:12:21.168 Pretty sure it's sitting on my bedroom floor where I took it out of it's box 00:12:21.413 --> 00:12:22.023 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:12:22.413 --> 00:12:23.433 so much of that. 00:12:23.438 --> 00:12:24.453 So much of that. 00:12:24.647 --> 00:12:28.967 Alison: I I was limiting my ADHD tax to subscription based things, 00:12:28.967 --> 00:12:31.157 but now that I think about it, yeah, there's a lot of stuff 00:12:31.157 --> 00:12:32.177 Matt: That's it too, right? 00:12:32.177 --> 00:12:33.257 Like that's, uh, 00:12:33.692 --> 00:12:40.742 Alison: My dice bag is just full of full of shinies I had to 00:12:40.742 --> 00:12:42.662 have, I could not live without. 00:12:42.962 --> 00:12:45.722 Matt: Right, because that's the impulsive part, right? 00:12:45.722 --> 00:12:47.815 That's the impulsive part of, ADHD. 00:12:48.025 --> 00:12:51.805 And yes, someone could also say, well, just don't do that. 00:12:51.833 --> 00:12:56.423 But it's, you know, even when we do put it on our calendar, cuz I do, I'll set 00:12:56.428 --> 00:13:01.066 up a subscription to watch something on a channel that we don't usually subscribe 00:13:01.066 --> 00:13:07.006 to when we watch, when I watch the series, I have to put five alarms that 00:13:07.011 --> 00:13:13.756 start five days before, and sometimes even then I don't do it even then. 00:13:14.306 --> 00:13:17.246 Alison: There is for the record, for anybody wondering though, if I can 00:13:17.246 --> 00:13:23.096 change, there is a weekly recurring Hello Fresh reminder in my calendar. 00:13:23.186 --> 00:13:23.906 Matt: That's good. 00:13:24.926 --> 00:13:26.306 Alison: I'm learning, I'm growing 00:13:26.743 --> 00:13:32.593 Matt: There's a doctor named Russell Barkley, and he, he's one, you know, we, 00:13:32.598 --> 00:13:38.234 we've talked about how ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is a 00:13:38.634 --> 00:13:45.174 terrible name for how our brains work, but he calls it intention deficit disorder. 00:13:45.314 --> 00:13:46.534 Alison: Ooh. 00:13:47.019 --> 00:13:50.466 Matt: I still don't think that that covers all of it, but Intention 00:13:50.471 --> 00:13:55.855 Deficit Disorder, It, it's so funny because I've met, I've met people 00:13:55.855 --> 00:14:01.120 who are not motivated to do things. 00:14:01.267 --> 00:14:05.287 And, and I see that that is different from what I go through. 00:14:06.097 --> 00:14:10.117 I have every intention to do well. 00:14:10.117 --> 00:14:14.482 I have every intention to remember, I have every intention to do that 00:14:14.482 --> 00:14:18.142 thing on my list, cancel that subscription, whatever it is. 00:14:18.667 --> 00:14:19.067 Alison: Mm-hmm. 00:14:19.522 --> 00:14:22.612 Matt: But there is literally something broken in the doing. 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:23.150 Alison: Yep. 00:14:23.272 --> 00:14:26.572 Matt: It's not laziness and it's so hard to describe that. 00:14:26.572 --> 00:14:29.482 And the, and the sad thing and the frustrating thing is that so many 00:14:29.482 --> 00:14:36.679 people who have ADHD and don't know it, myself included at one point, just so, 00:14:36.979 --> 00:14:38.779 because you're like, I guess I'm lazy. 00:14:38.899 --> 00:14:40.789 I guess I'm just lazy because... 00:14:40.999 --> 00:14:41.329 Alison: yeah. 00:14:41.465 --> 00:14:46.145 I bought for a really long time that I was lazy while simultaneously bouncing 00:14:46.145 --> 00:14:50.765 off of walls because I absolutely have the hyperactive part of ADHD and 00:14:50.765 --> 00:14:55.025 always have, and I remember there being like, even as a child, me being like, 00:14:55.025 --> 00:15:00.245 I don't feel lazy, but I am exhibiting the symptoms that others, of course, I 00:15:00.245 --> 00:15:04.085 didn't think it in that eloquent of a way, but yeah, absolutely intentioned. 00:15:04.085 --> 00:15:04.895 I like that a lot. 00:15:05.105 --> 00:15:11.285 I did just think of another one, um, that I think ties into RSD is how many times 00:15:11.285 --> 00:15:16.745 as neurodivergent types have we not asked for something that we deserved because 00:15:16.745 --> 00:15:19.565 we were afraid of the fear of rejection. 00:15:20.285 --> 00:15:21.755 That's an ADHD tax. 00:15:21.755 --> 00:15:27.755 You know, I, I just, for one of my clients just asked for a new hourly rate 00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:29.885 for the first time in five plus years. 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:34.640 Because I had myself convinced that I, it's, it's not even that 00:15:34.640 --> 00:15:37.430 I thought I was undeserving, but I just had talked myself out of it 00:15:37.430 --> 00:15:39.260 before I ever asked the question. 00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:42.110 I didn't give the client the chance to respond. 00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:46.010 And as soon as I said, Hey, I, I, I hate to have to do this, but you 00:15:46.015 --> 00:15:47.450 know, my rate's gotta increase. 00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:48.950 They said, okay, great. 00:15:48.950 --> 00:15:49.940 Tell us what the new rate is. 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:51.620 Easy peasy lemon squeezy. 00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:57.200 How many times have I, just the fear of rejection has paralyzed me to the point. 00:15:57.770 --> 00:16:00.650 And is that an ADHD tax or is that just living? 00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:03.590 Um, we could ponder that one all day. 00:16:03.670 --> 00:16:06.280 Matt: Yes, I think it's absolutely a part of it. 00:16:06.310 --> 00:16:12.130 And then going back to you, you know, contacting Hello Fresh and, 00:16:12.130 --> 00:16:15.820 and saying, Hey, look, I, I did this and you know, let's pretend that they 00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:19.600 didn't, they didn't condescend to you and say, put it on your calendar. 00:16:20.170 --> 00:16:22.270 Uh, you know, let's pretend that that didn't happen. 00:16:22.270 --> 00:16:27.665 But there have been so many times where I've had to force myself to, 00:16:27.995 --> 00:16:29.585 to say, oh, I missed the thing. 00:16:30.185 --> 00:16:31.745 I missed, I missed the deadline. 00:16:31.745 --> 00:16:32.705 They charged me. 00:16:33.395 --> 00:16:34.715 Guess what happens? 00:16:34.775 --> 00:16:37.895 Most of the time they say, oh yes, sorry. 00:16:37.895 --> 00:16:38.495 No problem. 00:16:38.555 --> 00:16:39.545 Yeah, you missed the deadline. 00:16:39.545 --> 00:16:39.875 That's okay. 00:16:39.875 --> 00:16:40.625 I'll take it off. 00:16:41.135 --> 00:16:43.415 So, so many times. 00:16:44.405 --> 00:16:46.775 But I'm afraid, I'm afraid for them to say no. 00:16:47.555 --> 00:16:49.985 I'm afraid for them to say, ah, no, you missed the time. 00:16:50.375 --> 00:16:50.795 Go to hell. 00:16:51.035 --> 00:16:51.335 Alison: Yep. 00:16:51.875 --> 00:16:53.615 Matt: But yeah, 00:16:53.645 --> 00:16:54.625 Alison: ADHD tax!. 00:16:55.955 --> 00:16:56.765 Matt: Yeah. 00:16:56.962 --> 00:16:57.784 uh, 00:16:57.955 --> 00:17:00.485 Alison: Shall we dive into the big 00:17:00.785 --> 00:17:01.065 Matt: a good one. 00:17:01.065 --> 00:17:01.755 Alison: chewy topic now? 00:17:02.115 --> 00:17:02.325 Matt: Yeah. 00:17:02.345 --> 00:17:04.055 Let's dive into the chewy topic. 00:17:04.055 --> 00:17:05.015 That was a really good one though. 00:17:05.015 --> 00:17:05.635 Thank you, Fitz. 00:17:05.635 --> 00:17:06.875 Alison: Thank you, Fitz. 00:17:07.585 --> 00:17:08.165 Matt: Yeah. 00:17:08.705 --> 00:17:09.155 was, fun. 00:17:09.995 --> 00:17:12.585 Um, but yes, this other topic, came up. 00:17:12.795 --> 00:17:17.854 Uh, my brother and I we were giving advice to someone in the Bivins Brothers Show. 00:17:17.854 --> 00:17:21.659 We were asked if we had Any tips and tricks to someone's first 00:17:21.659 --> 00:17:23.339 time playing Dungeons and Dragons. 00:17:23.489 --> 00:17:27.732 And, we had so much fun for almost an hour talking about it. 00:17:27.732 --> 00:17:31.522 We had professional, Dungeon Masters in the, in the chat that were helping 00:17:31.522 --> 00:17:33.413 us out and, and, it was so fun. 00:17:33.530 --> 00:17:37.455 But here's the thing, the way that we were talking about it, I kind of stepped 00:17:37.485 --> 00:17:39.315 back and I was like, okay, wait a minute. 00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:42.910 Do I sound super freaking culty right now? 00:17:43.090 --> 00:17:44.410 Are we talking about a cult? 00:17:44.800 --> 00:17:47.860 Are we talking about the cult of Dungeons and Dragons? 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:50.380 And it really started sticking with me. 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:55.852 And a little bit of backstory is, I have a lot of experience with cults. 00:17:55.992 --> 00:18:02.039 I've not joined one myself, but I've had two beloved people in my life join them. 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.909 And, one is still in a cult. 00:18:06.749 --> 00:18:11.489 And then one is, well, depending on who you talk to, is also possibly 00:18:11.489 --> 00:18:14.639 still in the cult a different kind. 00:18:14.639 --> 00:18:19.569 But anyway, um, I had a friend that, I knew since he, he was eight 00:18:19.629 --> 00:18:20.889 and we kind of grew up together. 00:18:20.889 --> 00:18:26.979 We were neighbors and went to a high school together and art school together, 00:18:26.979 --> 00:18:33.832 and then we started a band together and we moved up to Boston eventually. 00:18:33.832 --> 00:18:37.582 Cause we played Irish music and we went to Ireland and we then we said, 00:18:37.612 --> 00:18:39.662 okay, we're going to move up to Boston. 00:18:39.662 --> 00:18:43.982 So we moved to Boston and before I even got there, I was 00:18:43.982 --> 00:18:46.262 finishing up work in the south. 00:18:46.262 --> 00:18:48.348 He Was approached by some people. 00:18:48.353 --> 00:18:54.198 He was busking in the subway and they said, oh, we also play Irish flute. 00:18:54.348 --> 00:18:55.758 You should come and have dinner. 00:18:56.058 --> 00:18:56.748 And he did. 00:18:56.868 --> 00:18:58.491 And he is still there. 00:18:58.491 --> 00:18:59.991 He's got five kids. 00:18:59.991 --> 00:19:04.731 They moved him to England because he was actually from ireland, but his 00:19:04.731 --> 00:19:06.861 father is English is very complicated. 00:19:07.523 --> 00:19:10.814 They have very strong beliefs about, your father's origin is where 00:19:10.814 --> 00:19:13.814 you are supposed to live, which I don't, I don't really get it. 00:19:13.814 --> 00:19:18.224 Um, But it was really, really hard and weird. 00:19:18.229 --> 00:19:22.424 And, what I did was, I was at Emerson College at that point, 00:19:22.621 --> 00:19:25.321 and I was going to be a writer. 00:19:25.651 --> 00:19:30.691 I was taking writing classes, every single creative writing task 00:19:30.691 --> 00:19:32.281 I was given, I wrote about cults. 00:19:32.581 --> 00:19:37.321 I went to the Scientology Place, and I, and I kind of went in 00:19:37.321 --> 00:19:41.191 and talked to the people at the Scientology Center in Boston. 00:19:41.611 --> 00:19:47.014 I did all this research on the Moonies, and I mean, name 'em, Kool-Aid kids, 00:19:49.264 --> 00:19:51.094 whatever they were called, Jim Jones. 00:19:51.494 --> 00:19:53.714 And here's what, okay, here was my takeaway. 00:19:53.891 --> 00:19:57.954 Which I think was pretty adult for me as a 22 year old or whatever. 00:19:58.644 --> 00:20:00.954 The word cult is not inherently bad. 00:20:00.954 --> 00:20:02.904 It is not a bad word. 00:20:03.354 --> 00:20:08.841 It has been given a negative connotation over the years and there certainly 00:20:08.841 --> 00:20:12.471 have been dangerous, scary cults. 00:20:12.551 --> 00:20:17.928 But, uh, a couple of the definitions of cult are, a great devotion to a 00:20:17.928 --> 00:20:20.418 person idea, object, movement or work. 00:20:20.798 --> 00:20:24.068 The object of such a devotion. 00:20:24.634 --> 00:20:28.444 At its simplest form, a system of religious beliefs and ritual. 00:20:29.104 --> 00:20:33.351 And I think when I got to a definition like that, I said, oh, yeah, yeah, right. 00:20:33.741 --> 00:20:34.191 So. 00:20:35.286 --> 00:20:39.801 when Christianity started, when Judaism started, when every 00:20:39.831 --> 00:20:42.651 religion started, it was a cult. 00:20:43.371 --> 00:20:47.691 It still is, I guess because it is a system of religious beliefs and ritual. 00:20:47.721 --> 00:20:48.051 Right? 00:20:48.398 --> 00:20:54.764 So that really helped me with my friend cuz I was like, okay, well 00:20:55.051 --> 00:21:00.241 there are religions that literally run the world in, in certain areas. 00:21:00.451 --> 00:21:04.111 Those are, you know, they have to start somewhere. 00:21:04.111 --> 00:21:05.671 So maybe he's going to be okay. 00:21:05.731 --> 00:21:06.571 And he is, he's fine. 00:21:06.661 --> 00:21:07.021 He's fine. 00:21:07.361 --> 00:21:08.401 I think, I don't know. 00:21:09.411 --> 00:21:10.131 I think he's okay. 00:21:10.681 --> 00:21:13.861 Uh, But then the definitions get a little scarier. 00:21:13.861 --> 00:21:17.281 A situation in which people admire and care about something 00:21:17.431 --> 00:21:21.051 or someone very much or too much. 00:21:21.711 --> 00:21:23.341 Alison: Or too much. 00:21:24.246 --> 00:21:26.166 Matt: And that's where I started worrying. 00:21:26.171 --> 00:21:29.346 I was like, my, my, my cult trigger's like, yeah. 00:21:29.376 --> 00:21:30.996 So what do you think, Alison? 00:21:31.046 --> 00:21:35.353 You have to talk about D&D as like, you know, the game that you might try 00:21:35.353 --> 00:21:39.703 once in your life, uh, you know, a couple of buds wanna try something new 00:21:39.973 --> 00:21:41.873 and say, okay, cool, we'll try D&D. 00:21:41.893 --> 00:21:42.463 And you play it. 00:21:42.463 --> 00:21:43.033 You move on. 00:21:43.363 --> 00:21:44.533 Obviously not a cult. 00:21:45.103 --> 00:21:49.063 But hearing you and me talk about it, is it, a cult? 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:52.555 Alison: So everything that you've just mentioned, uh, taken, you 00:21:52.555 --> 00:21:55.975 know, kind of from various, by the book definitions of a cult. 00:21:55.975 --> 00:21:59.525 And also, yes, to answer your question as uh, someone who identifies as 00:21:59.525 --> 00:22:04.720 Christian, there are culty things about it that I will go ahead and admit 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.100 out loud and speak into the world. 00:22:06.580 --> 00:22:11.530 I think Alison's definition of a cult, like the things I think about that 00:22:11.530 --> 00:22:14.950 we haven't really, like, we've talked about the object of devotion, right? 00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:17.530 We've talked about a great devotion to a person, right? 00:22:18.100 --> 00:22:23.230 For me, the thing that separates a cult from a group of friends 00:22:23.230 --> 00:22:24.550 enjoying a hobby together. 00:22:24.685 --> 00:22:25.295 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:22:25.600 --> 00:22:28.430 Alison: One, there is always a very charismatic leader. 00:22:28.930 --> 00:22:31.510 In D&D call this a Game Master. 00:22:36.825 --> 00:22:37.285 Matt: Uh, oh. 00:22:37.285 --> 00:22:38.455 Where are you going with this? 00:22:38.545 --> 00:22:38.785 Okay. 00:22:38.785 --> 00:22:39.325 Keep going. 00:22:39.375 --> 00:22:39.855 Yeah. 00:22:40.045 --> 00:22:40.655 Mm-hmm. 00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:45.490 Alison: The other part of that is if there is a leader, there must be disciples. 00:22:45.490 --> 00:22:46.810 There must be followers. 00:22:46.975 --> 00:22:47.545 Matt: Yes. 00:22:47.890 --> 00:22:52.060 Alison: And see, here's the thing, here's where I, I, I would start to argue on the 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:57.730 pro could be considered a cult, could be considered not black and white is a cult. 00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:02.060 Okay, let me choose my words carefully here, but could be considered a cult 00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:05.930 because there is someone charismatic, something charismatic, drawing 00:23:05.930 --> 00:23:08.000 you in and holding you in place. 00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:12.050 Uh, and it is a group of people who might not find their way into each other's 00:23:12.050 --> 00:23:16.704 lives otherwise, and might, I don't wanna say, might be preyed upon that's a little 00:23:16.709 --> 00:23:20.193 bit more serious than, I mean, although that is a facet of some cults, right? 00:23:21.003 --> 00:23:21.663 Um, 00:23:21.858 --> 00:23:26.105 but I mean, those are, those are kind of the two big facets for 00:23:26.105 --> 00:23:30.055 me that, that do check the boxes here in a non treacherous way. 00:23:30.275 --> 00:23:31.685 Matt: And I, I think you just said it. 00:23:31.805 --> 00:23:33.135 That, that is a big part of it. 00:23:33.195 --> 00:23:39.331 Like, my friend Christopher, he, he was preyed upon in, in the sense that 00:23:39.511 --> 00:23:45.601 there were techniques used by his group, and I, I'm sure he uses them now too. 00:23:45.941 --> 00:23:47.891 It's the love bombing, right? 00:23:47.896 --> 00:23:48.131 Like 00:23:48.161 --> 00:23:48.771 Alison: Mm-hmm. 00:23:49.131 --> 00:23:52.878 Matt: And the, certain techniques that, those charismatic leaders 00:23:52.878 --> 00:23:55.248 kind of bring about and, and. 00:23:56.020 --> 00:23:59.160 I don't see that so much in D&D. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:00.490 I don't see that. 00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:02.260 I definitely see this seclusion. 00:24:02.260 --> 00:24:06.190 I definitely see the, there's, room for cattiness, there's 00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:09.803 room for holier than thou-ness. 00:24:09.823 --> 00:24:13.273 There's definitely factions that don't agree. 00:24:13.273 --> 00:24:18.080 There's like, rules as written, home brew, you know, there's 00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:19.498 all, there's all of that. 00:24:19.498 --> 00:24:21.718 Alison: Yeah, we're a group of people who want you to be 00:24:21.718 --> 00:24:22.708 here cuz you want to be here. 00:24:22.708 --> 00:24:24.898 We don't want to hold you in place. 00:24:25.258 --> 00:24:26.308 Um, that is, you're right. 00:24:26.308 --> 00:24:31.101 A very important distinction to make is that I've never, felt like if I 00:24:31.101 --> 00:24:35.301 were to come to you and Fitz and Evan tomorrow and say, I love you guys, 00:24:35.301 --> 00:24:37.691 I'm gonna need to pull back from D&D. 00:24:38.036 --> 00:24:38.646 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:24:38.871 --> 00:24:41.601 Alison: I like, I think that you guys would be honestly shocked because 00:24:41.601 --> 00:24:43.791 of my level of, you know, passion. 00:24:44.151 --> 00:24:46.911 But I don't, I don't think it would be, you know, a, a a 00:24:46.916 --> 00:24:50.571 game ender for our friendships. 00:24:50.841 --> 00:24:51.261 Right? 00:24:51.321 --> 00:24:54.501 And I get that sense of that in cults that when you, when you leave, 00:24:54.501 --> 00:24:56.961 you have to break away entirely. 00:24:56.991 --> 00:25:00.531 There's no, let's just be friends after this relationship. 00:25:00.771 --> 00:25:02.751 It's either all in or all out. 00:25:02.811 --> 00:25:07.851 So in that way, I would say D&D is very not culty because we're very much a come 00:25:07.851 --> 00:25:10.611 as you are, stay as long as you like. 00:25:11.271 --> 00:25:14.815 And you know, with cults you tend to think there's, there can be one leader, right? 00:25:14.820 --> 00:25:15.865 There has to be this hierarchy. 00:25:16.570 --> 00:25:16.690 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:17.560 Mm-hmm. 00:25:18.355 --> 00:25:19.935 Alison: I don't feel that way about D&D. 00:25:19.951 --> 00:25:24.745 Like, I think, you know, you love being a GM and are gifted at it, but I, I 00:25:24.745 --> 00:25:28.975 think anytime that I have showed any kind of interest, you have been nothing but 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:32.695 supportive and never no, this is my game. 00:25:32.755 --> 00:25:35.755 Sit down, peon, or anything like that. 00:25:36.285 --> 00:25:38.155 Matt: "Sit down peon." 00:25:38.525 --> 00:25:40.735 Alison: Things that Matt, you know, would never say. 00:25:42.955 --> 00:25:45.590 It's just, it was interesting though to hear you talk about, 00:25:45.811 --> 00:25:47.186 your early experience with cults. 00:25:47.191 --> 00:25:47.576 Right. 00:25:48.236 --> 00:25:51.806 I was talking with a group of friends last week and one of them was telling 00:25:51.806 --> 00:25:55.316 me about some Hulu documentary that they had watched on a cult that had 00:25:55.316 --> 00:25:57.716 preyed on young women in college. 00:25:58.063 --> 00:26:00.643 And as they're telling me the story and as they're telling me about 00:26:00.643 --> 00:26:04.573 what this cult leader did, to prey upon these young women. 00:26:04.573 --> 00:26:09.733 I, I was struck with the realization that like, at the wrong place and time, that 00:26:09.733 --> 00:26:16.093 could have been me, there was a, a prior version of Alison that needed that love 00:26:16.093 --> 00:26:17.593 bombing and all of those different things. 00:26:17.598 --> 00:26:20.803 And I'm like, I'm really glad that I was never in that situation cuz I 00:26:20.808 --> 00:26:22.213 I probably would've fallen for it. 00:26:22.548 --> 00:26:23.038 Matt: Yeah. 00:26:23.353 --> 00:26:23.923 Alison: Right? 00:26:24.223 --> 00:26:27.163 Because somebody would've been loving me and giving me something. 00:26:27.163 --> 00:26:31.408 And It's kind of like narcissists where they make you feel, you know, 00:26:31.408 --> 00:26:33.958 and we've talked about even with us, like making people feel seen 00:26:33.958 --> 00:26:36.388 and heard and stuff like that, but that could also be used as a really 00:26:36.388 --> 00:26:38.308 dangerous instrument of manipulation. 00:26:38.848 --> 00:26:42.388 Um, so it's interesting to hear about you, you know, like I had this sliding 00:26:42.393 --> 00:26:45.508 doors moment when you were telling, I'm like, but Matt, you, you know, started 00:26:45.508 --> 00:26:48.688 out playing, you know, tin whistle and pan flute and all of these things. 00:26:49.018 --> 00:26:54.568 What if you had been in the subway that day instead of Christopher? 00:26:54.688 --> 00:26:58.828 Would that have, it doesn't sound like it, but I'm here saying, oh, if I had been in 00:26:58.828 --> 00:27:03.208 the wrong place at the wrong time, this podcast would not exist because I would 00:27:03.208 --> 00:27:04.708 be too busy living in a cult somewhere. 00:27:05.668 --> 00:27:06.988 Matt: That's interesting that you say that. 00:27:06.988 --> 00:27:08.018 That's real talk, because... 00:27:09.029 --> 00:27:14.249 I, I could see that about you, but I have to say, that would 00:27:14.249 --> 00:27:16.269 definitely be young Alison. 00:27:16.679 --> 00:27:19.229 Like, I don't, I don't, I wouldn't see that now. 00:27:19.289 --> 00:27:20.699 I definitely would not see that now. 00:27:21.149 --> 00:27:29.126 And the people that I've known, there is something in them that needs it, that 00:27:29.126 --> 00:27:33.836 needs it real bad, whatever it is that... 00:27:34.656 --> 00:27:36.786 Okay, here's, here's what I've thought is the difference. 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:38.230 And this is just my own opinion. 00:27:38.310 --> 00:27:44.702 But in my mind, the people who are really, really susceptible to joining 00:27:44.702 --> 00:27:51.185 cults are ones that do not enjoy the process of thinking for themselves. 00:27:52.275 --> 00:27:52.695 Alison: Hmm. 00:27:53.165 --> 00:27:54.785 Matt: Of being for themselves. 00:27:54.785 --> 00:27:56.915 I'm not saying that they don't have thoughts, and I'm definitely not 00:27:56.915 --> 00:27:58.235 saying they're not intelligent. 00:27:58.565 --> 00:28:04.415 Christopher was very intelligent, but there was always a, a need for him to 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:08.045 join so that he could just have it go. 00:28:08.125 --> 00:28:15.909 You know, before the cult, he either wanted to be a monk or be in a band. 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.959 Honestly, both of those pretty culty, I will admit. 00:28:20.239 --> 00:28:21.778 Because the band is a secular group. 00:28:21.778 --> 00:28:22.888 You have to depend on each other. 00:28:22.888 --> 00:28:23.878 You have to do things. 00:28:23.998 --> 00:28:26.935 Except, the difference is you know, it's a very small group. 00:28:26.985 --> 00:28:31.065 Not everybody can join, but I think that the, the people who are really 00:28:31.065 --> 00:28:36.165 drawn are, are the people who have a harder time thinking for themselves. 00:28:36.195 --> 00:28:38.628 And I don't think, think of you as that way. 00:28:38.733 --> 00:28:40.883 Alison: Okay, so let me Yes, and that. 00:28:41.208 --> 00:28:41.818 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:28:41.978 --> 00:28:42.938 Alison: With this. 00:28:42.938 --> 00:28:46.088 I think that there comes a time in everybody's life when you 00:28:46.088 --> 00:28:48.758 realize, nobody's coming for me. 00:28:48.968 --> 00:28:50.228 Nobody's coming to save me. 00:28:50.598 --> 00:28:50.948 Matt: Mm. 00:28:51.335 --> 00:28:52.415 Alison: I gotta do this myself. 00:28:52.475 --> 00:28:55.985 And I think that that's when your life truly begins is when you have 00:28:55.985 --> 00:28:59.975 that moment of I and I alone am responsible for my own happiness. 00:29:00.205 --> 00:29:00.765 Right? 00:29:01.535 --> 00:29:06.365 So put another way, it's not that somebody is requiring someone else to 00:29:06.365 --> 00:29:10.895 think for them, but it does suggest to me that they are in a thought pattern 00:29:10.955 --> 00:29:17.735 of I'm relying on outside forces to fulfill me, to make me happy, to drive me 00:29:18.110 --> 00:29:18.290 Matt: Yeah, 00:29:18.905 --> 00:29:21.455 Alison: is how I would, I would look at that. 00:29:22.550 --> 00:29:23.120 Matt: That's better. 00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:23.930 Yeah. 00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:25.490 Let's not bring intelligence into it. 00:29:25.955 --> 00:29:26.915 Alison: Yeah, exactly. 00:29:26.915 --> 00:29:32.675 Prior versions of Alison definitely relied heavily on outside stimuli. 00:29:32.735 --> 00:29:36.005 Is that, is it stimuluses stimulusi, stimuli? 00:29:36.030 --> 00:29:36.190 Matt: Hmm. 00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:37.860 Alison: Anywho? 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:38.060 I, 00:29:39.380 --> 00:29:43.430 Yeah, Younger versions of myself wanted to be, I want you to feed 00:29:43.430 --> 00:29:44.930 me, I want you to entertain me. 00:29:44.930 --> 00:29:47.300 I want you to provide me my happiness. 00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:52.550 40 year old Alison understands nobody but me is responsible for that. 00:29:52.790 --> 00:29:54.950 Not my partner, not my friends. 00:29:55.460 --> 00:29:56.460 You know, nothing. 00:29:57.230 --> 00:29:58.460 Matt: I mean, you're still a fan. 00:29:58.460 --> 00:30:02.510 You are still exceedingly good at being a fan of things like. 00:30:02.570 --> 00:30:03.740 But, but it's different. 00:30:03.795 --> 00:30:10.675 There is a level of, of scariness and again, I'm talking about when I saw 00:30:10.675 --> 00:30:15.235 my friend go, Hmm, no, I'm making this decision you are not a part of it. 00:30:15.235 --> 00:30:16.705 I'm giving away all of my things. 00:30:16.855 --> 00:30:18.625 That is, that's not just being a fan. 00:30:18.715 --> 00:30:20.665 That is, that is what you're talking about. 00:30:20.665 --> 00:30:25.025 That is like a, I'm going to dive off a cliff and these 00:30:25.025 --> 00:30:26.075 people are going to catch me. 00:30:26.225 --> 00:30:26.495 Yeah. 00:30:26.795 --> 00:30:29.285 Alison: Well, and it's the, it's the separation point. 00:30:29.285 --> 00:30:32.855 I think that is maybe the defining crux of, is it a cult or isn't it. 00:30:32.855 --> 00:30:38.506 A, a fandom, if we wanna use that word, is people who enjoy and share the same things 00:30:39.166 --> 00:30:44.476 and are still encouraged to go about their lives with their normal day to days 00:30:44.476 --> 00:30:46.426 and have other loves and other fandoms. 00:30:46.426 --> 00:30:50.926 Whereas cults seem to be, I own you, you only belong to me. 00:30:50.931 --> 00:30:55.666 You must dissociate with everything that you were previously and level up. 00:30:55.724 --> 00:30:59.504 so, my wheels are now turning as to how we can bring all things 00:30:59.504 --> 00:31:01.964 ADHD back to all things RPGs. 00:31:02.444 --> 00:31:09.014 What classes of D&D are most likely to become members of a cult? 00:31:09.044 --> 00:31:10.964 Obviously Paladin, obviously Monk. 00:31:12.164 --> 00:31:12.774 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:31:13.304 --> 00:31:13.904 . Yes. 00:31:14.174 --> 00:31:14.744 Clerics. 00:31:14.749 --> 00:31:15.884 I would even go as... 00:31:16.184 --> 00:31:17.864 Alison: about say or, or warlocks. 00:31:17.894 --> 00:31:21.974 You know, if you are given your powers by a higher power 00:31:22.214 --> 00:31:22.574 Matt: Yes. 00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:26.114 Is your higher power that that beautiful leader, yeah. 00:31:26.134 --> 00:31:26.744 Mm-hmm. 00:31:26.744 --> 00:31:28.874 Alison: The culty culty culty leader 00:31:31.944 --> 00:31:34.927 Matt: Ooh, And, and then the second question is what classes 00:31:34.927 --> 00:31:36.067 would be the cult leader? 00:31:36.067 --> 00:31:37.807 And that would definitely be Warlock, right? 00:31:37.987 --> 00:31:40.717 That would definitely be clerics and warlocks. 00:31:40.864 --> 00:31:41.044 Alison: Yeah. 00:31:41.044 --> 00:31:43.294 I would see it as clerics first. 00:31:43.714 --> 00:31:44.854 Matt: Yeah, clerics first. 00:31:44.854 --> 00:31:45.228 Cuz they're 00:31:45.228 --> 00:31:46.518 Alison: Paladins be cultists. 00:31:46.878 --> 00:31:47.448 Matt: Yes. 00:31:47.453 --> 00:31:47.948 Mm-hmm. 00:31:47.998 --> 00:31:50.638 . Monks are Cultists part of the fandom? 00:31:50.638 --> 00:31:51.388 They're part of the, yeah. 00:31:51.778 --> 00:31:52.018 Yeah. 00:31:52.018 --> 00:31:52.288 They're, 00:31:52.408 --> 00:31:52.678 Alison: they're, 00:31:52.678 --> 00:31:53.068 part of 00:31:53.158 --> 00:31:53.578 Matt: yeah. 00:31:57.868 --> 00:31:59.098 Alison: Are we bad people, Matt? 00:31:59.998 --> 00:32:00.748 Matt: I don't know. 00:32:00.838 --> 00:32:02.968 I knew this was gonna be a touchy subject. 00:32:03.538 --> 00:32:08.218 I, I tried to warn you, like, I don't know if I have a f a fully formulated 00:32:08.338 --> 00:32:12.391 concept of this, but I like where we've gotten to though, because, I 00:32:12.391 --> 00:32:17.311 think we've made points that prove that Dungeons and Dragons is not a cult. 00:32:17.361 --> 00:32:19.471 That it's way too big. 00:32:19.561 --> 00:32:21.451 It's way too broad. 00:32:21.451 --> 00:32:24.461 Especially if you open it up, to role playing games, then 00:32:24.466 --> 00:32:26.141 it's like endlessly large. 00:32:26.141 --> 00:32:33.168 It is, it is definitely something that you can fall prey to intense fandom for, 00:32:34.361 --> 00:32:36.791 like us, you could definitely do that. 00:32:37.011 --> 00:32:40.620 Alison: I think though that this has been a really important discussion 00:32:40.620 --> 00:32:44.116 for us to have of, reminding ourselves and hopefully any listeners, that 00:32:44.116 --> 00:32:49.546 not every fanatical group is a cult. 00:32:49.956 --> 00:32:50.446 Matt: Yeah. 00:32:51.066 --> 00:32:51.486 Yes. 00:32:52.621 --> 00:32:55.261 Alison: So we learned something through doing this that we, you know, 00:32:56.401 --> 00:32:59.731 can be kinder and gentler with our words and our labeling of things. 00:32:59.911 --> 00:33:02.341 Cuz I think anytime it's something that you don't understand, it's 00:33:02.341 --> 00:33:05.431 just like people saying like, oh, Alison is all about manifestation 00:33:05.491 --> 00:33:07.471 and spiritual shit now, she's woowoo. 00:33:07.771 --> 00:33:10.921 Well, not really like, but you don't understand it. 00:33:10.921 --> 00:33:13.441 And so instead of taking the time to get to know what's actually going 00:33:13.441 --> 00:33:17.401 on and making assumptions about what I do and don't believe, you know, 00:33:17.406 --> 00:33:20.071 you're just gonna label it as Alison's being fanatical about something. 00:33:20.101 --> 00:33:20.971 Not you by the way. 00:33:20.971 --> 00:33:23.221 And certainly not any listeners, but people in my life. 00:33:23.596 --> 00:33:23.956 Matt: Right? 00:33:24.001 --> 00:33:24.811 Alison: Continue to do that. 00:33:25.306 --> 00:33:25.756 Matt: I'm sorry. 00:33:25.896 --> 00:33:28.571 Alison: To, clarify, I'm using you very broadly here. 00:33:29.756 --> 00:33:33.110 Matt: But yeah, I, I think it is the broadness, it, it does have 00:33:33.110 --> 00:33:38.396 to do with the, extent that it has permeated culture, right? 00:33:38.996 --> 00:33:45.416 So we know that meditation and yoga, it is proven scientifically that those things 00:33:45.416 --> 00:33:50.711 are good for human beings like, Was there a time where no one would have done that 00:33:50.711 --> 00:33:53.741 in the United States of America, and they would've called it woo woo, and it 00:33:53.741 --> 00:33:55.691 would've made more people uncomfortable. 00:33:55.751 --> 00:33:56.591 I am sure. 00:33:56.651 --> 00:33:57.161 Sure. 00:33:57.521 --> 00:34:00.341 But now it's just too broad. 00:34:00.791 --> 00:34:03.251 Christianity's way too broad to be a cult. 00:34:03.435 --> 00:34:09.955 And it was very important for me when I lost Christopher, to come to that in my 00:34:09.955 --> 00:34:15.575 twenties, that cult is not a bad word, it's not inherently bad, it is just, uh, 00:34:15.605 --> 00:34:21.081 you know, it just has some parameters attached that, sure could be dangerous in 00:34:21.081 --> 00:34:23.331 the hands of any charismatic leader, but. 00:34:23.491 --> 00:34:24.101 Alison: Mm-hmm. 00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:27.413 Matt: Let's focus on the good things and the good outcomes. 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.493 And if, you find yourself in a group, let's say you are someone who 00:34:31.493 --> 00:34:32.693 has not played Dungeons & Dragons. 00:34:32.698 --> 00:34:34.373 Maybe you are listening to this podcast. 00:34:34.378 --> 00:34:36.203 Maybe you're like, God, I really want to try it. 00:34:36.293 --> 00:34:42.028 And then you, you find a group and it feels weird and you don't like it. 00:34:42.058 --> 00:34:45.126 You don't like them, and they're saying things you don't like and they 00:34:45.126 --> 00:34:47.436 don't have any X cards for safety. 00:34:47.441 --> 00:34:50.660 And you, you just genuinely feel it's creep town. 00:34:50.736 --> 00:34:51.906 You've entered creep town. 00:34:52.114 --> 00:34:54.094 You can get out, you come play with us. 00:34:54.334 --> 00:34:55.264 And we're not creepy. 00:34:55.744 --> 00:34:56.344 I don't think. 00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:57.559 I don't think I'm creepy. 00:34:57.589 --> 00:35:00.919 I mean, I, I can be creepy sometimes, but not, not like that. 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:02.539 Alison: You? 00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:03.079 Never. 00:35:03.289 --> 00:35:05.429 There are ghosts next door, Alison 00:35:05.799 --> 00:35:07.943 Matt: There's a ghost next door, Alison. 00:35:07.943 --> 00:35:11.036 Alison: I think this is a really good time to remind everybody though 00:35:11.036 --> 00:35:15.596 that like anything else, you should take things for a spin before... 00:35:16.016 --> 00:35:19.946 In dating, in friendship, and find, you know, one of my friends was, uh, going 00:35:19.946 --> 00:35:24.346 to therapy for the first time in their and I had to tell them it is okay if you 00:35:24.351 --> 00:35:25.696 do not click with your first therapist. 00:35:25.696 --> 00:35:28.396 It is okay if you do not click with your first three therapists, like 00:35:28.726 --> 00:35:31.876 give it a session or two cuz you know, the whole getting to know 00:35:31.876 --> 00:35:35.146 you thing can be awkward, but you should click with who you're working 00:35:35.146 --> 00:35:36.586 with on that personal level, level. 00:35:36.796 --> 00:35:38.146 Same thing with your D&D group. 00:35:38.146 --> 00:35:41.686 So if it's not clicking, there are other offerings out there and it 00:35:41.686 --> 00:35:51.586 is okay to test drive hairstylists, therapists, cars, D&D, you know, 00:35:51.643 --> 00:35:52.023 Matt: Yeah. 00:35:52.263 --> 00:35:55.558 Alison: We tend to Look at every move we make as potentially permanent and 00:35:55.918 --> 00:36:00.388 like with very few exceptions, like for, I don't know, having kids or dying. 00:36:00.688 --> 00:36:02.818 Most decisions that we make day to day. 00:36:03.328 --> 00:36:04.108 Not permanent. 00:36:04.258 --> 00:36:05.878 So you can get a new job, 00:36:05.999 --> 00:36:06.149 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:36:06.451 --> 00:36:09.349 Alison: You know, A new lawn guy, a new cult. 00:36:09.904 --> 00:36:11.524 Matt: Yeah, Anytime you want. 00:36:11.854 --> 00:36:12.844 You have our permission. 00:36:13.444 --> 00:36:15.574 Your cult leaders give you permission. 00:36:17.749 --> 00:36:19.099 Alison: Brought it right back around, didn't we? 00:36:19.504 --> 00:36:20.534 Matt: We sure did. 00:36:21.132 --> 00:36:23.237 Alison: We rolled high on the charisma. 00:36:23.732 --> 00:36:24.032 Matt: Yeah. 00:36:24.257 --> 00:36:24.767 Alison: Yeah. 00:36:25.052 --> 00:36:25.532 Matt: We did. 00:36:25.532 --> 00:36:25.982 We did. 00:36:25.982 --> 00:36:26.522 We're pretty glad. 00:36:27.342 --> 00:36:30.312 Alison, thank you for being on, on my podcast. 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:36.069 Alison: Whoa, 00:36:37.374 --> 00:36:37.674 Matt: Creepy. 00:36:44.411 --> 00:36:48.341 Thank you for listening and being a part of our ADHd20 and larger 00:36:48.401 --> 00:36:50.378 Bivins Brothers Creative community. 00:36:50.378 --> 00:36:53.798 If you're looking for more, we have a hoppin' Discord that 00:36:53.798 --> 00:36:57.668 a couple of us affectionately call the Honeycomb Kill Room. 00:36:57.731 --> 00:36:59.651 Look for the join link in the show notes. 00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:04.170 Alison: We talk about all kinds of things, TTRPGs and ADHD for sure, 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.400 but also TV, comics, video games, movies, theater, our pets, and 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:09.840 really anything else on our minds. 00:37:10.050 --> 00:37:12.120 Come be nerds with us and all our friends. 00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:13.560 Matt: We also have a Patreon 00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:18.420 every day work on a Bivins Brothers Original is senselessly ignored 00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:20.670 for the sake of billable hours. 00:37:20.670 --> 00:37:25.061 And those podcasts, videos, and live streams are crying out for help. 00:37:25.061 --> 00:37:29.261 Alison: For just $2 a month, you too can be a Bivins Brothers Angel, 00:37:29.411 --> 00:37:31.961 ensuring this content is seen and heard. 00:37:32.321 --> 00:37:36.821 By supporting our Patreon, you are helping more Bivins Brothers Originals like this 00:37:36.826 --> 00:37:39.771 very podcast, see the clear light of day. 00:37:39.823 --> 00:37:42.973 Matt: The best way you can help us though, is just to share this cast 00:37:42.973 --> 00:37:44.953 with the people you think will like it. 00:37:44.953 --> 00:37:49.243 Alison: Thank you for being a pal, to us as people, to ADHd20 the Podcast, 00:37:49.423 --> 00:37:53.023 and to the Greater Bivins Brothers Creative Commonwealth of Nerds.