WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.049 --> 00:00:02.229 Matt: I wanted to wait until we hit record 00:00:02.409 --> 00:00:02.889 AK: Uhoh. 00:00:02.889 --> 00:00:06.729 Matt: To say that you've picked a hum dinger of a topic today. 00:00:06.979 --> 00:00:07.680 AK: Hum dinger. 00:00:08.399 --> 00:00:12.209 Matt: This is a, what did the kids say? 00:00:13.088 --> 00:00:13.508 Bopper. 00:00:13.728 --> 00:00:14.668 No, that can't be 00:00:14.768 --> 00:00:15.378 AK: It's a bop, 00:00:15.478 --> 00:00:15.768 Matt: Yeah. 00:00:16.068 --> 00:00:17.278 AK: It's, it's bussing. 00:00:17.338 --> 00:00:17.878 No cap 00:00:18.505 --> 00:00:19.285 Matt: No caps. 00:00:19.785 --> 00:00:22.365 The capacity is incredible. 00:00:25.425 --> 00:00:28.925 The capacity for interesting conversation is endless. 00:00:29.141 --> 00:00:29.882 Oh, man. 00:00:30.522 --> 00:00:36.519 I, I was not aware of what this was until you brought it up. 00:00:36.899 --> 00:00:38.559 Um, but we will get to that in a minute. 00:00:38.806 --> 00:00:43.426 Let me, let me just start off by saying that Alison Kendrick. 00:00:44.106 --> 00:00:44.326 AK: Oh. 00:00:45.306 --> 00:00:46.366 Matt: Has a magic power. 00:00:47.011 --> 00:00:47.231 AK: Oh. 00:00:47.906 --> 00:00:54.919 Matt: And that magic power is, coming up with engaging things to talk about. 00:00:55.459 --> 00:00:58.839 And that includes coming up with titles of things. 00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:08.359 You're, you're a good theme-er, you're a really good theme captain. 00:01:09.504 --> 00:01:09.724 AK: Oh. 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:11.519 Matt: I don't know what that means. 00:01:11.844 --> 00:01:11.964 AK: I 00:01:12.279 --> 00:01:12.919 Matt: I like it though. 00:01:12.919 --> 00:01:13.509 AK: I like it. 00:01:13.509 --> 00:01:15.609 I'll be, I'll be the Theme Captain any day. 00:01:15.609 --> 00:01:16.839 Matt: Be be my theme captain. 00:01:16.839 --> 00:01:22.284 AK: You know, thing that I am, uh, supremely proud of us we embark on 00:01:22.344 --> 00:01:27.124 season two, episode 12 of ADHd20, the podcast that tries to find 00:01:27.124 --> 00:01:29.484 the intersection between ADHD 00:01:29.881 --> 00:01:31.481 Matt: and TTRPGs. 00:01:31.481 --> 00:01:32.011 AK: Yes. 00:01:32.081 --> 00:01:32.761 That. 00:01:32.801 --> 00:01:33.351 Matt: There we go. 00:01:34.096 --> 00:01:37.596 AK: Is what a marvelous job the both of us have done. 00:01:37.716 --> 00:01:40.366 I think like finding and playing to our strengths. 00:01:40.826 --> 00:01:41.046 Matt: Mm. 00:01:41.666 --> 00:01:43.006 Better and better every time. 00:01:43.006 --> 00:01:43.286 Yeah. 00:01:43.286 --> 00:01:44.046 Better and better. 00:01:44.316 --> 00:01:45.716 AK: It is fun for me to come up with topics. 00:01:45.816 --> 00:01:47.516 It is fun for me to come up with titles. 00:01:48.176 --> 00:01:53.316 It is no fun for me to make us look or sound good or find the exact 00:01:53.326 --> 00:01:59.846 cross section of technology to bring this sweet little podcast into the, 00:01:59.846 --> 00:02:02.186 into the eyeballs and ear holes. 00:02:02.256 --> 00:02:04.196 Oh, that went weird places of 00:02:06.016 --> 00:02:06.756 Matt: Ear hole. 00:02:07.136 --> 00:02:08.996 AK: of the ADHd20 Faithful. 00:02:10.096 --> 00:02:12.580 Um, and that's where you do an exceptional job. 00:02:12.580 --> 00:02:14.390 And I'm so grateful to you 00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:15.710 Matt: I just like it. 00:02:16.210 --> 00:02:17.450 AK: But you're so good at it too. 00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:21.030 So I'm glad that it sits where you want to sit. 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:21.980 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:02:22.245 --> 00:02:22.785 AK: And that's, 00:02:23.290 --> 00:02:23.780 Matt: Very much. 00:02:23.935 --> 00:02:27.485 AK: That does kind of lead us into what today's topic will be all about. 00:02:27.545 --> 00:02:27.665 But! 00:02:28.045 --> 00:02:29.175 We're not gonna reveal it yet. 00:02:29.175 --> 00:02:31.665 Cause we have a couple, we've got a couple spots to do. 00:02:31.715 --> 00:02:36.905 First of which, Matt, what did you hyper fixate on in the past week or so? 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:39.380 Matt: Oh gosh, I didn't do my homework. 00:02:39.380 --> 00:02:40.780 Do you wanna go first while I think 00:02:41.485 --> 00:02:48.425 AK: Um, I, have been delving into the beautiful, wonderful 00:02:48.425 --> 00:02:51.025 world of, um, Adobe Illustrator. 00:02:51.485 --> 00:02:53.905 So I'm a Photoshop girly. 00:02:54.225 --> 00:02:57.625 I, I have been having fun in Photoshop doing what I call a 00:02:57.625 --> 00:02:59.745 digital decoupage for years now. 00:02:59.845 --> 00:03:04.425 I'm not telling you I'm good at it either, but I, I somewhat understand 00:03:04.425 --> 00:03:05.425 what I'm doing in that program. 00:03:06.140 --> 00:03:06.430 Matt: Yeah. 00:03:06.720 --> 00:03:08.170 AK: Illustrator is 00:03:08.420 --> 00:03:09.890 Matt: Totes diff 00:03:09.910 --> 00:03:10.610 AK: Uh, it is. 00:03:10.760 --> 00:03:11.050 Yeah. 00:03:11.090 --> 00:03:14.970 I, I, and it's funny cuz Evan will help me from time to time and, and he will have 00:03:14.970 --> 00:03:17.730 to kind of correct me and be like, I see why you're doing that cuz that is what you 00:03:17.730 --> 00:03:19.170 would do in Photoshop, but don't do that. 00:03:19.910 --> 00:03:24.250 Um, and so for a really long time, because it was new, I just ignored Illustrator, 00:03:24.650 --> 00:03:26.170 I just pretended it didn't exist. 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.980 But I have been designing a logo, not taking the easy way out and 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:32.710 leaping into Canva, doing it for real. 00:03:32.710 --> 00:03:37.300 And yesterday I, three hours went by and I, in my head I had been 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:40.100 working for maybe five minutes. 00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:42.140 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:43.340 AK: I think that's a hyperfixation, isn't it? 00:03:43.390 --> 00:03:47.520 Time blindness is not the thing that I usually suffer from, but I 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.680 have been lately, every time I've been opening up ye olde Illustrator, 00:03:52.390 --> 00:03:53.080 Matt: Well, that's fun. 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:57.120 At least it's, it's moving you forward to something that's helpful 00:03:57.260 --> 00:03:58.840 for all of us, so that's good. 00:03:59.530 --> 00:03:59.640 yes. 00:03:59.700 --> 00:04:00.500 AK: thought of another mini one. 00:04:00.500 --> 00:04:04.550 ChatGPT, been very hyper fixated on what can do for us lately 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:04.760 Matt: Yeah. 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:09.260 All then I'll, I'll give you two that that are similarly, matched. 00:04:09.640 --> 00:04:16.543 Uh, number one, I did a lot of work on our friend Amy Cox's, um, company's 00:04:16.573 --> 00:04:18.966 website, Deep South Entertainment. 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.596 I'm not the designer of this team, so, I, and I don't want to be, I'm 00:04:23.596 --> 00:04:24.636 not trying to be hard on myself. 00:04:24.716 --> 00:04:27.396 I, I don't need to be, because we have an incredible designer 00:04:27.936 --> 00:04:29.396 and a junior designer as well. 00:04:29.696 --> 00:04:32.716 But I, to make it fun for me, I had to go 00:04:33.456 --> 00:04:33.956 AK: Uh oh, 00:04:34.271 --> 00:04:40.648 Matt: Out of my mind nuts on writing copy for fake copy for this website, 00:04:40.895 --> 00:04:43.185 which should see the light of day. 00:04:43.380 --> 00:04:43.670 Yeah. 00:04:44.205 --> 00:04:51.685 Uh, I also went down a, an AI based experience where I combined two images of 00:04:54.895 --> 00:04:58.435 Elton John and a Porta John 00:04:59.505 --> 00:05:00.425 AK: And the and results! 00:05:00.425 --> 00:05:02.325 Matt: That was, that was part of it, part of the job. 00:05:02.465 --> 00:05:03.645 The results were fantastic, 00:05:03.850 --> 00:05:04.340 AK: Magical. 00:05:04.965 --> 00:05:05.965 Matt: Creepily fantastic. 00:05:06.525 --> 00:05:07.025 Oh yes. 00:05:07.332 --> 00:05:10.212 AK: Why don't we roll some d100s? 00:05:10.746 --> 00:05:11.556 Today's dice. 00:05:11.586 --> 00:05:12.356 Gosh, I love this. 00:05:12.356 --> 00:05:15.996 These are dice that were given to me by our, the other Matt in 00:05:15.996 --> 00:05:18.276 my life, our good friend Matt Williams, that you've heard about. 00:05:18.376 --> 00:05:21.606 I I love the video format that we, I now get to show off my dice. 00:05:22.102 --> 00:05:28.762 Matt: I'm, I'm using my little gorgeous wooden dice that I bought at, um, 00:05:28.762 --> 00:05:29.582 AK: Those are so cool. 00:05:30.342 --> 00:05:34.042 Matt: D and D Dice here in Chicago, Illinois. 00:05:34.042 --> 00:05:35.043 I Good people. 00:05:35.153 --> 00:05:35.763 Good dice. 00:05:35.763 --> 00:05:36.363 Great dice. 00:05:36.543 --> 00:05:37.683 Uh, 57 for me. 00:05:37.753 --> 00:05:38.843 What did you roll again? 00:05:38.843 --> 00:05:39.163 Sorry. 00:05:40.013 --> 00:05:40.853 AK: I hadn't said it yet. 00:05:41.553 --> 00:05:41.833 Matt: Oh, okay. 00:05:42.123 --> 00:05:43.263 AK: Uh, I rolled a 30 00:05:44.193 --> 00:05:44.483 Okay. 00:05:44.513 --> 00:05:45.363 This is a good one. 00:05:46.348 --> 00:05:46.548 Matt: good. 00:05:46.618 --> 00:05:50.083 AK: What D&D class have you not played, but want to try? 00:05:53.305 --> 00:05:53.915 Matt: Barbarian. 00:05:54.970 --> 00:05:55.190 AK: Oh, 00:05:56.085 --> 00:05:57.295 Matt: I've never played a barbarian. 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:02.190 AK: Well, Matt, you are going to be playing in a one shot that I will be 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.750 DMing in July, with our beautiful patrons. 00:06:06.990 --> 00:06:11.100 I would like to openly invite you to bring a barbarian to that melee. 00:06:11.340 --> 00:06:13.300 Matt: Well, perhaps I will. 00:06:13.530 --> 00:06:14.180 Wink, wink. 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:14.580 Nod. 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:14.900 Nod. 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:16.990 Alison. 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:17.500 AK: That's me! 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:21.640 Matt: Money and experience suddenly don't matter. 00:06:22.190 --> 00:06:23.760 What is your profession now? 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:24.540 AK: Mm. 00:06:27.130 --> 00:06:28.750 I'm gonna say something really corny. 00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:29.640 Matt: Go. 00:06:30.287 --> 00:06:31.247 AK: I think this might be it. 00:06:32.267 --> 00:06:32.487 Matt: Wow. 00:06:33.707 --> 00:06:33.927 Wow. 00:06:34.927 --> 00:06:37.431 AK: I like, talking into a mic is really fun. 00:06:38.197 --> 00:06:42.127 So if this could be my full-time gig and money didn't 00:06:42.127 --> 00:06:45.077 matter, that'd be pretty cool. 00:06:46.127 --> 00:06:47.137 Matt: I think I'm right there with 00:06:47.137 --> 00:06:47.197 AK: ya. 00:06:47.197 --> 00:06:47.857 Let's do it. 00:06:47.857 --> 00:06:47.957 Matt: You. 00:06:47.957 --> 00:06:49.087 I think I'm right there with you. 00:06:49.197 --> 00:06:49.487 Yeah. 00:06:49.577 --> 00:06:53.077 Let's you know, we don't need those things. 00:06:53.197 --> 00:06:53.477 AK: Yeah. 00:06:53.757 --> 00:06:54.407 Matt: We don't need those. 00:06:54.417 --> 00:06:58.287 We're still doing it, which is one of the wonderful things about it, but, 00:06:59.090 --> 00:06:59.380 AK: Yeah. 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:00.570 Matt: There is no but, that's it. 00:07:00.590 --> 00:07:01.010 AK: That's 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:04.380 Matt: So thanks everybody for listening cuz you are, you 00:07:04.380 --> 00:07:06.500 are willing us into existence. 00:07:06.730 --> 00:07:08.060 AK: making our dreams come true. 00:07:08.900 --> 00:07:11.500 Matt: I mean, we obviously, I mean, we would still do it without you, but 00:07:12.030 --> 00:07:12.320 AK: It's 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:14.940 Matt: You're, it's way more fun with you. 00:07:15.020 --> 00:07:15.440 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:16.980 Matt: Love it. 00:07:17.207 --> 00:07:17.607 AK: I do. 00:07:18.377 --> 00:07:18.917 All right. 00:07:18.997 --> 00:07:20.207 Well that, was fun. 00:07:21.137 --> 00:07:21.427 Matt: Yeah. 00:07:22.007 --> 00:07:26.247 AK: I feel like we need some like ringing bells to unveil today's topic. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:34.377 So this is one, this is a tenet is the word that we typically use, symptom, side 00:07:34.377 --> 00:07:41.407 effect, of ADHD that caught my attention back when I first got my diagnosis. 00:07:41.587 --> 00:07:45.687 Definitely since we've been doing this podcast, um, that I've been very curious 00:07:45.687 --> 00:07:48.887 about, like what it means and how I apply it, but I didn't know much about 00:07:48.887 --> 00:07:50.437 it and then I started reading about it. 00:07:50.787 --> 00:07:55.167 And the reason, the reason that I brought this up as today's topic is because on 00:07:55.187 --> 00:08:01.087 Sunday, in lieu of our regular Barovia game, we were lucky enough to have our 00:08:01.117 --> 00:08:04.337 good friend Tey insert sound effect, 00:08:10.507 --> 00:08:10.797 Matt: What? 00:08:10.957 --> 00:08:11.177 AK: Hey. 00:08:15.537 --> 00:08:19.517 Matt: We got it under control now it's under control. 00:08:19.617 --> 00:08:21.497 And a two and a three, and a four and a. 00:08:21.577 --> 00:08:21.667 There 00:08:22.037 --> 00:08:24.147 AK: We know what to expect now, and you know how to stop it. 00:08:24.367 --> 00:08:24.587 So 00:08:25.827 --> 00:08:26.777 Matt: Thank God. 00:08:26.817 --> 00:08:27.907 AK: Preparation is key. 00:08:28.107 --> 00:08:28.987 Preparation is key. 00:08:29.147 --> 00:08:33.137 So anyways, our good friend Tey loves you know, kind of taking us by the 00:08:33.137 --> 00:08:36.417 hand and leading us through new and different gaming systems, which of 00:08:36.417 --> 00:08:40.097 course we love because if it were not for the people like Tey, I would 00:08:40.097 --> 00:08:41.217 do the same thing day in a day out. 00:08:41.277 --> 00:08:45.387 So I feel like you, I need those people in my life to like, push me and say 00:08:45.387 --> 00:08:46.737 let's go, let's try this new thing. 00:08:46.797 --> 00:08:49.817 So he said, there is a game I want to play with you. 00:08:50.247 --> 00:08:53.297 It's a game built, is it Powered by the Apocalypse? 00:08:53.297 --> 00:08:54.297 Is that the, the gaming 00:08:54.647 --> 00:08:54.867 Matt: Yes. 00:08:55.217 --> 00:08:56.187 That is the core. 00:08:56.617 --> 00:08:56.907 Yeah. 00:08:58.057 --> 00:08:58.347 yeah. 00:08:58.567 --> 00:08:59.367 AK: It's called Masks. 00:09:00.267 --> 00:09:05.477 And in Masks, you take on one of, I think there's eight or ten 00:09:06.237 --> 00:09:08.717 kind of stereotypical superhero 00:09:08.717 --> 00:09:09.037 Matt: Archetypes. 00:09:09.197 --> 00:09:10.287 AK: Archetype personas. 00:09:11.187 --> 00:09:19.030 Um, and you, in the most beautiful, angsty, teenage fashion, save Halcyon City 00:09:19.100 --> 00:09:19.190 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:09:19.190 --> 00:09:23.880 AK: from certain doom, and other stereotypical superheroes. 00:09:24.470 --> 00:09:24.690 Matt: Yes. 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:30.570 Like, like lunch ladies and crushes and why did I start with lunch ladies? 00:09:30.590 --> 00:09:30.710 AK: I 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:33.530 Matt: Yeah. 00:09:33.590 --> 00:09:37.410 Anyway, well, you know, crushes and, and bullies and, and teen it zits 00:09:37.510 --> 00:09:38.830 and you know, teenage stuff too. 00:09:38.880 --> 00:09:38.940 Yeah. 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.760 AK: People trying to take your lunch money before you get to the lunch lady 00:09:42.180 --> 00:09:42.850 Matt: There we go. 00:09:42.920 --> 00:09:44.650 That, there we go. 00:09:46.550 --> 00:09:49.890 The lunch lady's trying to take your lunch money before you get to the lunch ladies. 00:09:51.338 --> 00:09:54.428 AK: Exactly, boy, we're really making people wanna play this game. 00:09:54.853 --> 00:09:55.143 Matt: Yeah. 00:09:55.203 --> 00:09:55.983 Anyway, yeah. 00:09:56.068 --> 00:09:58.128 AK: We played this superhero game called Masks. 00:09:58.418 --> 00:10:00.208 We're hoping the first of many sessions. 00:10:00.208 --> 00:10:02.808 And so we wanted to talk about our experience with that, 00:10:02.808 --> 00:10:03.728 of course, on this episode. 00:10:04.228 --> 00:10:09.615 But then I said, but wait, behind the mask is the secret identity and how does 00:10:09.615 --> 00:10:16.835 that play into ADHD and being neurospicy and it plays in so well because, to 00:10:16.862 --> 00:10:19.538 like I mentioned, we did, you know, the quickest amount of research on this and 00:10:19.538 --> 00:10:25.722 basically to sum it up, masking is when somebody who is neurodivergent, whether 00:10:25.782 --> 00:10:31.202 or not they're aware, the actions that they take to try to, and I'm gonna 00:10:31.202 --> 00:10:33.242 air quote this, appear more normal. 00:10:34.112 --> 00:10:34.532 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:10:35.322 --> 00:10:39.592 AK: You and I are two people that have been diagnosed as adults. 00:10:39.902 --> 00:10:40.942 that we have shared a lot. 00:10:42.042 --> 00:10:48.202 Um, But I think, correct me if I'm wrong, we were both aware long before 00:10:48.202 --> 00:10:52.002 either of us were diagnosed that there was something spicy about us 00:10:52.142 --> 00:10:53.402 and our sweet little brains, right? 00:10:54.232 --> 00:10:54.452 Matt: Mm. 00:10:54.752 --> 00:10:59.132 In that we spent an inordinate amount of energy masking, 00:10:59.442 --> 00:11:01.302 masking the hell out of our lives 00:11:01.302 --> 00:11:02.002 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:11:02.112 --> 00:11:02.852 Matt: 100%. 00:11:02.852 --> 00:11:04.632 AK: So as to appear normal. 00:11:05.022 --> 00:11:05.442 Mm-hmm. 00:11:05.992 --> 00:11:08.912 I know, like I have always thrived in the chaos. 00:11:09.272 --> 00:11:13.672 I have always been a fairly messy and, and disorganized person. 00:11:14.612 --> 00:11:20.415 And I remember the horror in high school of my locker and, and like 00:11:20.475 --> 00:11:23.295 it was one of those lockers that you open and just like exploded. 00:11:23.555 --> 00:11:28.135 And I remember, I remember being embarrassed knowing that that wasn't 00:11:28.135 --> 00:11:31.375 normal, knowing that like you're, you know, especially all the little girls 00:11:31.435 --> 00:11:35.775 in Alabama in the nineties, you know, they had all of their like beautiful 00:11:36.115 --> 00:11:37.855 floral, you know, matchy matchy. 00:11:38.925 --> 00:11:41.545 And I just, I didn't have those things and I didn't >really>< have 00:11:41.545 --> 00:11:42.738 much interest in those things. 00:11:42.758 --> 00:11:47.368 But I will never forget, I was in 10th grade and some older girls that were 00:11:47.368 --> 00:11:51.678 popular and that I admired were sitting in our, our common area was called the Mall. 00:11:51.678 --> 00:11:53.808 They were sitting in the mall next to my locker. 00:11:54.988 --> 00:11:59.368 And, um, I, you know, had to like, you know, hi, can I, you know, nerdy 00:11:59.368 --> 00:12:01.928 little Alison needed to get through and get her chemistry book or whatever. 00:12:02.228 --> 00:12:05.928 And I remember opening my locker and the explosion happening and one of the girls 00:12:05.928 --> 00:12:08.208 saying to me, I thought you were neat. 00:12:09.038 --> 00:12:14.408 Like, that surprises me that your locker looks like that cuz you seem like the 00:12:14.408 --> 00:12:17.428 kind of person who would be more neat. 00:12:17.608 --> 00:12:23.708 And I remember like the shame that I felt, um, in that moment and, and, and, 00:12:23.728 --> 00:12:26.988 and being acutely aware of the fact that like, I should hide my messiness. 00:12:27.188 --> 00:12:32.828 I should hide my chaos from the world and basically spent the rest of high 00:12:32.828 --> 00:12:34.308 school and college doing exactly that. 00:12:35.013 --> 00:12:37.873 Matt: You had to make an RSD check and you failed. 00:12:38.108 --> 00:12:38.508 AK: I failed. 00:12:38.978 --> 00:12:39.558 Big time. 00:12:39.738 --> 00:12:40.028 Yeah. 00:12:40.293 --> 00:12:40.513 Matt: Yes. 00:12:41.288 --> 00:12:44.868 AK: Um, I've also learned in the research, and this is something that that has been 00:12:44.868 --> 00:12:50.188 brought up by some of our friends, in our ADHd20 community since starting this. 00:12:50.628 --> 00:12:53.348 Some of these things just are more prevalent in women than men. 00:12:54.948 --> 00:12:58.428 Apparently masking is a big one of those things because, you know, there's 00:12:58.448 --> 00:13:03.468 the expectation of women we're gonna be kind of the planners and the ones 00:13:03.488 --> 00:13:06.628 you know, that are a little bit more with it and together not to be sexist. 00:13:07.393 --> 00:13:07.813 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:13:08.613 --> 00:13:14.073 AK: One of the big reasons that women often are either not diagnosed or are 00:13:14.073 --> 00:13:18.273 diagnosed later in life is because they, I'm not saying that they do a better 00:13:18.373 --> 00:13:24.563 job of masking, but they are more apt to mask, to try and cover those symptoms 00:13:24.563 --> 00:13:27.593 Matt: and willing, yeah, more willing, more patient about it. 00:13:27.770 --> 00:13:33.803 According to Russell Barkley who coined this term masking, he also 00:13:33.803 --> 00:13:35.363 calls it impression management. 00:13:35.773 --> 00:13:37.163 Impression management. 00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:43.880 It happens in one third of people with ADHD, but I will immediately say that I 00:13:43.880 --> 00:13:46.120 believe that that number is far higher. 00:13:46.150 --> 00:13:46.570 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:13:46.880 --> 00:13:52.560 Matt: I think to your point, there's probably a ton of women, especially 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:59.040 who just, I mean, generally women have a higher tolerance to pain, and and 00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:04.190 acceptance of, of social injustices. 00:14:04.660 --> 00:14:06.440 And, and, uh, yeah. 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:08.360 Yeah, that's what I, that's my vote. 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:13.200 That's my vote, is that there's a whole lot more masking going on, but yes. 00:14:13.735 --> 00:14:20.225 AK: Well, and I found that, so I, um, you had turned me on to, ADDitude, A-D-D-itude 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:20.660 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:21.500 Mm-hmm. 00:14:21.865 --> 00:14:25.265 AK: I found this one, this quote really kind of stuck out to me cuz 00:14:25.425 --> 00:14:29.185 I was like, oh, I feel called out, "...From constructing highly structured 00:14:29.185 --> 00:14:33.265 environments to obsessively avoiding specific situations and people." 00:14:33.728 --> 00:14:37.148 So like, the part that made me feel called out was the obsessively 00:14:37.348 --> 00:14:39.228 avoiding specific situations. 00:14:40.028 --> 00:14:43.468 I think that I don't think that I am a control freak. 00:14:43.778 --> 00:14:45.268 This is not, these are not words. 00:14:45.488 --> 00:14:46.308 I'm not type A. 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:52.410 But I realized other, a, a lot of people in my life have called me a control 00:14:52.410 --> 00:14:55.210 freak and would happily label me that. 00:14:56.130 --> 00:15:03.310 I realized in reading that, that I have specifically avoided or specifically 00:15:03.310 --> 00:15:08.530 taken control in an effort to avoid situations that make me uncomfortable. 00:15:09.230 --> 00:15:13.730 And that my mask, therefore, is one who wants to be in charge. 00:15:14.550 --> 00:15:18.570 The leader or the bossy pants control freak. 00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:20.970 Um, which is interesting. 00:15:21.865 --> 00:15:23.315 Matt: I've got a bunch of examples 00:15:23.315 --> 00:15:24.955 here I would like to share. 00:15:25.695 --> 00:15:25.915 Um, 00:15:26.026 --> 00:15:27.706 AK: I, we did our research. 00:15:27.766 --> 00:15:28.866 We came with our little notes. 00:15:28.966 --> 00:15:29.506 We were little 00:15:29.921 --> 00:15:30.211 Matt: yeah. 00:15:30.391 --> 00:15:30.671 Oh yeah. 00:15:30.731 --> 00:15:31.786 AK: gophers in name of science. 00:15:34.271 --> 00:15:35.411 Matt: Uh, yeah. 00:15:35.511 --> 00:15:37.171 Here's some really good ones here. 00:15:37.171 --> 00:15:39.811 I'll try to pick out the ones that, that have always applied to me. 00:15:39.911 --> 00:15:40.201 AK: Okay. 00:15:41.491 --> 00:15:45.301 Matt: Obsessively checking belongings to make sure you don't lose things. 00:15:46.556 --> 00:15:47.566 Bing, bing, bing, bing. 00:15:48.106 --> 00:15:49.086 1000%. 00:15:49.151 --> 00:15:49.691 AK: God, yes. 00:15:50.596 --> 00:15:50.886 Matt: Yeah. 00:15:51.346 --> 00:15:52.046 Uh, let's see. 00:15:52.876 --> 00:15:57.646 Seeming fine, acting, quote unquote fine when you're struggling to stay afloat. 00:15:58.706 --> 00:16:00.326 In my case, saying that I'm fine. 00:16:00.746 --> 00:16:05.446 In my case, going on stage and acting 00:16:06.071 --> 00:16:06.361 AK: fine. 00:16:07.506 --> 00:16:12.206 Matt: Uh, going out and, and talking to people after a show or something. 00:16:13.106 --> 00:16:13.806 Uh, let's see. 00:16:14.086 --> 00:16:15.006 Arriving way too early. 00:16:15.146 --> 00:16:15.366 Yes. 00:16:15.386 --> 00:16:18.966 To ensure that you're not late to an appointment due to time blindness. 00:16:20.026 --> 00:16:21.606 Uh, here's a good one. 00:16:22.236 --> 00:16:25.486 Excessively writing things down so you don't forget things later. 00:16:26.566 --> 00:16:27.466 Bing bing bing bing! 00:16:27.906 --> 00:16:28.766 Uh, obsess 00:16:29.371 --> 00:16:29.871 AK: Oh, no. 00:16:30.236 --> 00:16:31.126 Matt: This one, this one. 00:16:31.126 --> 00:16:34.086 Really, I, I actually had to take a breath after this one. 00:16:34.487 --> 00:16:38.417 Obsessively organizing paperwork and systems. 00:16:44.802 --> 00:16:45.022 AK: Oh, 00:16:45.877 --> 00:16:46.417 Matt: Oh God. 00:16:47.117 --> 00:16:47.997 Oh my God. 00:16:48.437 --> 00:16:49.017 AK: It's you! 00:16:49.187 --> 00:16:53.137 Matt: If people only knew, if people only knew, and I tried to talk about 00:16:53.137 --> 00:16:57.297 it, and that's not, that's just the tip of the iceberg, uh, bottling intense 00:16:57.297 --> 00:17:01.377 emotions until you're sick inside Yeah. 00:17:01.377 --> 00:17:02.497 And that's, that's a terrible one. 00:17:02.497 --> 00:17:07.297 Calling in sick to avoid being put in stressful or anxiety inducing 00:17:07.297 --> 00:17:09.377 situations, which I have done a lot. 00:17:09.852 --> 00:17:10.072 AK: Ooh. 00:17:10.597 --> 00:17:14.777 Matt: Uh, not necessarily work, but just like social engagements. 00:17:14.857 --> 00:17:15.857 I do that unfortunately. 00:17:16.007 --> 00:17:17.737 Anybody who's listening this, that's my friend. 00:17:17.757 --> 00:17:18.097 I'm sorry. 00:17:18.097 --> 00:17:22.057 I've probably done it to you and I apologize, uh, but 00:17:22.057 --> 00:17:23.017 you know, now I know why. 00:17:23.867 --> 00:17:24.377 Let's see. 00:17:24.387 --> 00:17:26.577 Being irritable when you force yourself to concentrate on 00:17:26.577 --> 00:17:28.407 things that don't interest you. 00:17:28.467 --> 00:17:28.987 AK: Ouch ouch! 00:17:29.037 --> 00:17:29.657 Matt: Uh oh. 00:17:30.127 --> 00:17:30.207 Uh 00:17:30.287 --> 00:17:30.757 AK: Called 00:17:31.227 --> 00:17:34.902 Matt: Uh, Developing perfectionistic tendencies. 00:17:36.322 --> 00:17:36.542 Ooh, 00:17:37.132 --> 00:17:37.422 AK: Yeah. 00:17:37.422 --> 00:17:39.262 If it's not perfect, I want nothing to do with it. 00:17:39.362 --> 00:17:43.972 And that's so gross cuz I don't, I don't hold anybody else to that standard. 00:17:44.772 --> 00:17:46.952 Matt: Yes, yes, yes. 00:17:47.032 --> 00:17:47.152 I 00:17:47.292 --> 00:17:47.962 AK: Ridiculous. 00:17:48.272 --> 00:17:49.152 Matt: We about it all the time. 00:17:49.342 --> 00:17:53.432 Overdoing things until exhaustion sets in so that others can see how capable 00:17:53.692 --> 00:17:55.592 you are even when you're struggling. 00:17:57.892 --> 00:17:58.992 Uh, and here's another one. 00:17:59.252 --> 00:17:59.466 Here's 00:17:59.576 --> 00:18:02.506 Mimicking or copying other people in social situations. 00:18:03.106 --> 00:18:05.156 AK: That is a big one that I at least was aware of. 00:18:06.006 --> 00:18:10.556 Again, out of that desire to make other people feel more comfortable. 00:18:10.976 --> 00:18:11.396 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:18:12.006 --> 00:18:17.546 AK: And again, it all goes back to that in order to hide this aspect of yourself 00:18:17.546 --> 00:18:20.386 that you have not grown comfortable with. 00:18:21.226 --> 00:18:24.246 Matt: So we're talking, we're literally talking about secret identities. 00:18:24.376 --> 00:18:30.006 We're literally talking about this and it, this just blew my mind 00:18:30.146 --> 00:18:30.566 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:18:30.916 --> 00:18:39.896 Matt: Because the impact of doing this your entire life is, I mean for those 00:18:39.956 --> 00:18:45.136 of us that realize it, get help, get diagnosed and try to understand, try to 00:18:45.136 --> 00:18:47.616 forgive, go to therapy, whatever you need. 00:18:48.556 --> 00:18:49.496 Uh, okay. 00:18:49.566 --> 00:18:50.536 It's still difficult. 00:18:50.956 --> 00:18:52.896 It could be full on dangerous. 00:18:53.106 --> 00:18:53.456 Right. 00:18:54.276 --> 00:18:58.108 Um, certainly masking can lead to depression, anxiety, as it did me. 00:18:59.208 --> 00:19:03.268 Uh, you learn, you, you've just become exhausted from trying to fit in. 00:19:03.328 --> 00:19:08.788 You just, you and, and you just constantly think that you are a failure or whatever. 00:19:09.648 --> 00:19:15.588 Uh, people don't believe that you have ADHD when you really, really, really do. 00:19:16.648 --> 00:19:21.588 Um, my mom, not, not throwing her under the bus, but when I first told her, I've, 00:19:21.588 --> 00:19:25.028 I've mentioned this, when I first told her and she said, no, you have great grades. 00:19:25.529 --> 00:19:29.559 AK: Those great grades were the result, the consequence of you masking 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:33.439 because I'm betting those great grades didn't come easily for you, and you 00:19:33.459 --> 00:19:37.959 had to bend over backwards and twist yourself into ways that were really 00:19:37.959 --> 00:19:42.699 unnatural for your brain and body to be in order to have those grades. 00:19:42.829 --> 00:19:42.889 Matt: Yeah. 00:19:42.889 --> 00:19:45.639 AK: Which is exactly the point you were trying to make in sharing with her. 00:19:46.499 --> 00:19:47.159 That's the thing. 00:19:47.189 --> 00:19:47.479 Yeah. 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:53.990 I'm so proud of, you know, we'll say Gen X down embracing this, but Boomer 00:19:53.990 --> 00:19:57.510 Generations, Greatest Generation, like y'all need therapy and like 00:19:58.370 --> 00:20:00.420 you're dragging the rest of us down. 00:20:00.950 --> 00:20:05.110 Um, it, I mentioned this now, several episodes in a row, but, 00:20:05.110 --> 00:20:07.730 you know, the, the, my family vacation that didn't go well. 00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:11.790 A lot of that is my dad's refusal to accept his neuro spiciness. 00:20:12.405 --> 00:20:12.755 Matt: Right. 00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:18.140 AK: Um, Yeah, and so it's interesting that you bring up, so one of the other 00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:21.420 things from the article that I pulled up from ADDitude that stood out to me 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.540 was the consequence of ADHD masking. 00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:28.140 It says, ADHD masking, as we know, may delay or sabotage diagnosis, 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:29.260 especially in girls or women. 00:20:29.300 --> 00:20:34.300 Internalized conditions including anxiety or depression, might develop 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.100 as a consequence of undiagnosed, untreated and hidden ADHD. 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.020 It also interferes with a person's ability to accept the brain they have. 00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:46.050 This go, comes right back to what we were talking about earlier, take pride in 00:20:46.050 --> 00:20:47.980 their strengths and do more of what works. 00:20:48.810 --> 00:20:53.380 So what if you and I spent our time producing this podcast that 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:59.460 we love, jamming ourselves into the roles that we did not belong in? 00:20:59.850 --> 00:21:01.260 What if, you know, I said no. 00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:05.140 It is so important for Matt to see me an excellent video 00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:07.900 editor, as as a sound engineer 00:21:08.860 --> 00:21:09.660 Matt: I, I, yes. 00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:10.380 I see. 00:21:10.540 --> 00:21:11.900 I I see what you're saying. 00:21:12.130 --> 00:21:13.300 Yeah, exactly. 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:19.547 And, this is one of those that, that is, is a major breakthrough for me 00:21:19.547 --> 00:21:24.609 because, these things, these impacts for masking, there have been times 00:21:24.819 --> 00:21:28.289 where, uh, it feels like a burden. 00:21:29.239 --> 00:21:31.674 ADHD feels like a heavy, heavy burden. 00:21:31.817 --> 00:21:37.511 This is so good to learn about because I think this is actually truly the 00:21:37.571 --> 00:21:40.111 way out of those kinds of feelings. 00:21:40.571 --> 00:21:41.311 Not okay. 00:21:41.611 --> 00:21:45.431 Uh, you know, I'm not, I'm not diminishing ADHD by saying it's not a burden, 00:21:45.491 --> 00:21:50.991 but I'm also saying this is the way that you can try to turn that frown 00:21:50.991 --> 00:21:53.031 upside down in your darkest moments. 00:21:54.251 --> 00:21:59.431 You're not going to, you're not going to get rid of the symptoms. 00:22:00.091 --> 00:22:01.991 We cannot change the brains. 00:22:02.531 --> 00:22:07.601 But this awareness of, uh, uh, that was masking, I'm, I'm masking. 00:22:08.351 --> 00:22:09.671 I am playing a role. 00:22:10.131 --> 00:22:14.671 I'm playing a part right now, and it's only making, it's only going 00:22:14.671 --> 00:22:19.831 to make me upset later when I realize, or people around me, right? 00:22:19.941 --> 00:22:23.951 Like I, you know, whatever it is, replacing outward stress, 00:22:25.061 --> 00:22:28.651 which everyone should deal with better, with inward stress. 00:22:29.021 --> 00:22:30.971 Let's not, let's try not to do that. 00:22:31.231 --> 00:22:35.011 But those things, you can focus on, those things you can try to 00:22:35.011 --> 00:22:37.971 replace with better habits and stuff. 00:22:38.351 --> 00:22:40.131 So this is, this is good. 00:22:40.161 --> 00:22:40.811 This is good. 00:22:41.276 --> 00:22:46.576 AK: So ready for me to, now I'm gonna reveal my, like, glass shatter 00:22:46.666 --> 00:22:48.496 brain break moment in all of this. 00:22:48.796 --> 00:22:54.496 And also connect the dots between the TTRPG that we played how I used it 00:22:54.516 --> 00:22:56.216 to, to, to reach this realization. 00:22:56.476 --> 00:23:02.759 So, uh, so Tey fed us all of the source material for this wonderful game, Masks. 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:10.796 Matt and the other, Matt and Evan, and Fitz and I all chose 00:23:10.796 --> 00:23:12.499 our they're called playbooks. 00:23:13.199 --> 00:23:14.459 Our, um, our archetypes 00:23:14.884 --> 00:23:15.174 Matt: Yeah. 00:23:15.474 --> 00:23:15.894 Mm-hmm. 00:23:16.399 --> 00:23:19.339 AK: And you kind of have a choice in your playbook of is your 00:23:19.699 --> 00:23:21.279 identity going to be secret or not? 00:23:21.749 --> 00:23:23.619 And so we were pretty split down the middle. 00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:25.659 A couple chose secret identity. 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:29.912 A couple of us chose no, kind of out and proud with my, my superhero. 00:23:30.752 --> 00:23:33.392 I thought the most interesting one in the game that we played was the, 00:23:33.392 --> 00:23:34.992 the character choice that Fitz made. 00:23:35.812 --> 00:23:42.482 Um, she hides her identity of her, of her super, hero, uh, who is, uh, 00:23:42.592 --> 00:23:44.242 Critter Captain, which I just love. 00:23:44.902 --> 00:23:48.882 Uh, and then her real, the girl behind Critter Captain, uh, is named Reggie. 00:23:49.307 --> 00:23:50.227 Reggie is the real part. 00:23:50.687 --> 00:23:52.997 The masking is not the superhero. 00:23:52.997 --> 00:23:53.447 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:23:53.447 --> 00:23:55.387 AK: The masking is not Superman. 00:23:55.847 --> 00:23:57.307 The masking is Clark Kent. 00:23:57.477 --> 00:24:01.837 And so it's so remarkable to me that we're hiding some of the best parts 00:24:01.857 --> 00:24:06.957 of ourselves because of our perception of others', perceptions of us. 00:24:08.017 --> 00:24:09.477 Um, and it seems backwards. 00:24:09.617 --> 00:24:12.977 You think, you think of superheroes as putting on a mask, right? 00:24:12.977 --> 00:24:16.597 That like in order for like Clark Kent to go find a telephone booth 00:24:16.737 --> 00:24:20.597 and, you know, whirl into Superman mode, that's him donning his mask. 00:24:20.777 --> 00:24:24.157 But his biggest mask is him trying to fit in. 00:24:24.217 --> 00:24:26.907 And why would you wanna fit in with the normies? 00:24:26.907 --> 00:24:27.347 Matt: Right, right. 00:24:27.417 --> 00:24:33.497 AK: Why, you know, like, Stand out, you know, and 00:24:33.497 --> 00:24:38.257 Matt: I thought Fitz did a really, really beautiful job in game of, of playing to 00:24:38.257 --> 00:24:42.657 both sides of playing Critter Captain and Reggie, and forging relationships 00:24:42.677 --> 00:24:48.461 and alliances on both sides of that mask, but, but Alison with the Meta Knowledge, 00:24:48.901 --> 00:24:49.091 Mm-hmm. 00:24:49.091 --> 00:24:52.411 AK: versus Alison's character, um, I don't know. 00:24:52.411 --> 00:24:54.571 It was just, it was kind of surreal because I had this like 00:24:54.911 --> 00:24:58.571 aha moment, I guess is what I'm trying to say of like, Masking is 00:24:58.571 --> 00:25:00.171 backwards from what you think it is. 00:25:00.211 --> 00:25:05.771 It's not you, you know, trying to make other people feel like you're 00:25:05.771 --> 00:25:07.751 cooler or have some superpower. 00:25:08.011 --> 00:25:12.571 It's you hiding the real you, the thing that makes you special and unique. 00:25:12.951 --> 00:25:16.191 You know, and that's, that's why we have these conversations, I guess, 00:25:16.386 --> 00:25:16.611 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:25:16.611 --> 00:25:16.761 Mm-hmm 00:25:16.761 --> 00:25:19.771 AK: to convince people to, I mean, you can be both sides. 00:25:19.771 --> 00:25:21.811 You can be multifaceted as a person. 00:25:22.591 --> 00:25:26.451 You can have special abilities and be entirely mundane, and that's okay. 00:25:26.826 --> 00:25:28.966 Matt: Uh, uh, well, gosh. 00:25:29.876 --> 00:25:31.806 Yeah, it's, hmm. 00:25:31.826 --> 00:25:32.526 That's amazing. 00:25:32.906 --> 00:25:36.246 Uh, all right, let's, let's talk about some of the other characters too, because 00:25:36.246 --> 00:25:37.566 there's, there's some stuff in there. 00:25:38.186 --> 00:25:46.982 So your character, is basically out loud and proud, uh, as a super creature, right? 00:25:47.162 --> 00:25:53.302 She has an immense power, and does have like a cool hero name, which is French. 00:25:53.822 --> 00:25:54.862 I don't even remember it. 00:25:55.112 --> 00:25:58.462 AK: La Douleur Exquise! 00:25:58.672 --> 00:26:01.972 Because we were playing angsty teenagers, I created this character. 00:26:01.992 --> 00:26:04.792 Her name is, uh, Ciel Lavoie. 00:26:04.812 --> 00:26:07.492 Her parents are all, are also superheroes. 00:26:07.672 --> 00:26:09.532 She is very privileged and knows it. 00:26:10.512 --> 00:26:14.092 Um, and she kind of, the mask that she wears, and I did this very intentionally, 00:26:14.112 --> 00:26:18.032 is she tries so hard to be cool. 00:26:18.072 --> 00:26:22.292 So everything she's doing is, she's only doing so other people will 00:26:22.292 --> 00:26:24.252 look at her and go, wow, she's cool. 00:26:24.442 --> 00:26:28.292 So she chooses this completely, "The Exquisite Pain", like this 00:26:29.072 --> 00:26:34.422 stupid, stupid superhero name cuz she thinks it sounds cool. 00:26:34.422 --> 00:26:35.972 She thinks it sounds punk. 00:26:36.742 --> 00:26:37.032 Matt: Exactly. 00:26:37.047 --> 00:26:41.087 That's what I was gonna say is like, I, uh, you know, your, your superhero was 00:26:41.147 --> 00:26:47.257 out, uh, in the open but then, but then Ciel still masks is still masking things. 00:26:48.357 --> 00:26:53.372 Uh, And then my character actually had sort of a, an 00:26:53.532 --> 00:26:56.172 affliction, like a curse sorts. 00:26:56.952 --> 00:27:02.221 And, only wants to be normal, because she transforms into 00:27:02.221 --> 00:27:04.621 something that is horrific. 00:27:04.621 --> 00:27:05.421 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:27:05.491 --> 00:27:06.981 Matt: This wraith, this, 00:27:07.161 --> 00:27:07.581 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:27:08.361 --> 00:27:14.271 Matt: um, I mean powerful and, you know, strong but scary. 00:27:14.271 --> 00:27:14.871 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:27:15.171 --> 00:27:15.891 Matt: Just scary. 00:27:15.951 --> 00:27:18.021 And she does not like that. 00:27:18.176 --> 00:27:20.882 she, she also wears all these bright colors to try to get 00:27:20.882 --> 00:27:26.192 attention maybe to bring attention to the human parts of her, right. 00:27:26.342 --> 00:27:31.272 When, why, when she's human, that she can, she can kind of feel 00:27:31.532 --> 00:27:33.192 normal and that's all she wants. 00:27:34.742 --> 00:27:41.352 it's a great game because it is not about, uh, so Lindsay and I, we describe 00:27:41.352 --> 00:27:47.472 everything that's either combat or star fighting or anything is pew, pew, pew. 00:27:47.612 --> 00:27:50.512 So this is not a pew, pew, pew game, right? 00:27:50.542 --> 00:27:52.915 Like this is, there's no, there's no hit points. 00:27:53.475 --> 00:27:53.895 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:27:54.290 --> 00:28:00.390 Matt: You, you can be in a fight with a super villain, but, uh, the roll of 00:28:00.390 --> 00:28:05.790 the dice kind of dictates whether or not you or the super villain become 00:28:06.040 --> 00:28:11.670 angry or ashamed, or afraid based on the hits that you make, which is amazing. 00:28:11.930 --> 00:28:17.870 And, uh, instead of, instead of attributes like wisdom, charisma, strength, 00:28:17.950 --> 00:28:24.350 intelligence, you've got things like, how dangerous do you feel right now? 00:28:24.450 --> 00:28:26.230 What's your, what's your danger level? 00:28:26.250 --> 00:28:27.910 What's your superiority level? 00:28:28.050 --> 00:28:28.750 What's your 00:28:29.145 --> 00:28:29.495 AK: Freak. 00:28:30.210 --> 00:28:31.030 Matt: What's your freak? 00:28:31.290 --> 00:28:32.500 And then what's your, what's your 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.240 AK: Get your on! 00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:38.550 Matt: And that's so fun because it starts off, as, you know, it really speaks 00:28:38.550 --> 00:28:44.750 to teenagerness and, and the levels of, of, of, of heightened emotion and 00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:46.736 experience that you have every day. 00:28:46.876 --> 00:28:50.856 But, but just the, the knowing that those things are just constantly shifting 00:28:51.156 --> 00:28:54.936 and I just wanna feel normal or I just wanna be different, you know, like, 00:28:55.876 --> 00:29:01.856 and, and I remember, I, I remember in high school I would just vacillate, I 00:29:01.856 --> 00:29:07.016 talk all the time about what I, what a proto hipster I was, and that I hated 00:29:07.016 --> 00:29:09.376 everything that was popular and cool. 00:29:09.516 --> 00:29:14.136 And yet at the same time, no one liked me in part because of that. 00:29:14.836 --> 00:29:16.896 And so I would be like, I don't have any friends. 00:29:17.256 --> 00:29:20.456 I can't have a both, I can't have a both ways, but I would 00:29:20.456 --> 00:29:22.696 go bong bong B, trying to who? 00:29:23.506 --> 00:29:23.796 AK: Yeah. 00:29:24.366 --> 00:29:27.616 Matt: Well, it was just a bunch of masking is what it really was. 00:29:28.036 --> 00:29:29.246 AK: It's, it is interesting. 00:29:30.126 --> 00:29:33.406 I never had thought about this before, but I was, I was not a hipster. 00:29:33.556 --> 00:29:34.606 I've never been a hipster. 00:29:35.586 --> 00:29:41.946 Um, but I was trying very hard to play to two very, like, disparate sides, right? 00:29:42.206 --> 00:29:46.226 So, on one hand I had embraced my, my geekiness. 00:29:46.466 --> 00:29:48.776 I, I knew that I was weird from the jump. 00:29:48.806 --> 00:29:48.896 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:29:49.156 --> 00:29:52.676 AK: I knew from day one of kindergarten that I was not like 00:29:52.836 --> 00:29:54.226 the kids I was going to school with. 00:29:54.906 --> 00:29:55.866 I knew I was a nerd. 00:29:55.946 --> 00:29:56.826 I knew I was a freak. 00:29:56.986 --> 00:29:59.306 I, you know, I've loved music and theater and all these 00:29:59.306 --> 00:30:00.546 things from a very young age. 00:30:00.686 --> 00:30:02.266 So I was in all of the choirs. 00:30:02.386 --> 00:30:03.826 I was in all of the theater productions. 00:30:03.906 --> 00:30:05.106 I was in all of the bands. 00:30:05.731 --> 00:30:06.021 Matt: Yeah. 00:30:06.081 --> 00:30:07.221 You leaned into it, 00:30:07.346 --> 00:30:11.346 AK: I was also in a sorority and like, cared very much what 00:30:11.486 --> 00:30:15.026 the general populace of Mountain Brook High School thought of me. 00:30:15.721 --> 00:30:16.141 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:30:16.321 --> 00:30:16.741 Sports 00:30:17.266 --> 00:30:18.206 AK: Yes, and, and, and 00:30:18.206 --> 00:30:18.346 Matt: Church. 00:30:18.346 --> 00:30:21.046 AK: In some weird way managed to. 00:30:22.206 --> 00:30:25.366 I don't even know how I did this, but I managed to be successful on both sides. 00:30:26.346 --> 00:30:29.206 Um, it, I, I was in band, I was a band geek. 00:30:29.286 --> 00:30:32.006 I mean, there's no two ways around this, but I was also in the most 00:30:32.006 --> 00:30:34.332 popular sorority and though that's what I wanted, right? 00:30:34.452 --> 00:30:36.412 I wanted to be in the band and I wanted to be popular. 00:30:37.252 --> 00:30:41.302 I was constantly feeling tugged, so I wasn't happy. 00:30:41.742 --> 00:30:41.812 Matt: Yeah. 00:30:41.842 --> 00:30:45.452 AK: I had my real friends, you know, basically saying like, what are you 00:30:45.452 --> 00:30:50.652 putting on these airs for, you know, and then I had the popular kids doing what 00:30:50.652 --> 00:30:56.332 popular kids do, peer pressuring and, you know, trying to help make me cooler 00:30:57.122 --> 00:30:57.402 Matt: Yeah. 00:30:57.402 --> 00:30:58.312 AK: than I was 00:30:58.432 --> 00:31:02.167 Matt: Let's, let's talk about that actually, because that is, that is 00:31:02.167 --> 00:31:08.047 an endless amount of fascination for me as someone who was born in 00:31:08.047 --> 00:31:15.767 the early seventies, uh, my, my high school experience was identical to 00:31:15.767 --> 00:31:22.857 Freaks and Geeks, the show where there were very very clear lines, 00:31:23.007 --> 00:31:23.167 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:31:23.167 --> 00:31:30.133 Matt: wide lines between the nerds, the jocks, the cool people, the 00:31:30.203 --> 00:31:33.213 unpopular, the freaks, the blank. 00:31:34.013 --> 00:31:38.293 really, it's difficult for me to watch that show even, though I love 00:31:38.293 --> 00:31:40.453 it because it is so real to me. 00:31:40.553 --> 00:31:52.013 And then I, it seems to me that 10 years later, you and Lindsay, my 00:31:52.013 --> 00:31:56.173 wife, who is profoundly deaf, and you would think, I mean, how many movies 00:31:56.203 --> 00:32:01.773 have you seen where the disabled kid gets made fun of all the time? 00:32:01.953 --> 00:32:04.333 I'm not saying that she wasn't made fun of necessarily. 00:32:04.878 --> 00:32:05.168 Yeah. 00:32:05.271 --> 00:32:07.651 She didn't go through these things the way that I did. 00:32:08.031 --> 00:32:12.731 And, and so, you know, for, for a while I thought, well, okay, because she's 00:32:12.731 --> 00:32:14.891 a mid westerner, let's say, but no. 00:32:15.261 --> 00:32:18.791 Because you, you didn't have as much trauma in high school. 00:32:19.261 --> 00:32:22.391 AK: Oh, I had trauma, but from something completely different. 00:32:22.431 --> 00:32:22.531 Matt: Okay. 00:32:22.981 --> 00:32:26.577 AK: My trauma was not from my geekiness. 00:32:26.577 --> 00:32:28.187 Because I was loud about it. 00:32:28.377 --> 00:32:30.667 From an early age was kind of like, this is how I am. 00:32:30.727 --> 00:32:31.947 You're gonna take it or leave it. 00:32:32.357 --> 00:32:34.827 But I had an immense amount of trauma because of my weight, 00:32:34.827 --> 00:32:36.947 because teenage boys are assholes. 00:32:37.347 --> 00:32:37.647 Matt: Okay. 00:32:37.747 --> 00:32:38.187 AK: So, so 00:32:38.727 --> 00:32:39.017 Yeah. 00:32:39.087 --> 00:32:39.577 They are, 00:32:40.307 --> 00:32:42.187 I think that, no, and it's totally fine. 00:32:42.587 --> 00:32:45.827 I think that shaped, I mean, and this is a whole other can of worms to open, 00:32:45.867 --> 00:32:47.227 I think that shaped my personality. 00:32:47.987 --> 00:32:53.612 You've got, a woman, a girl, a female with ADHD who is overweight in the 00:32:53.612 --> 00:32:55.772 south where we are, looks obsessed, 00:32:57.232 --> 00:32:59.652 So I have all of those factors working against each other. 00:32:59.712 --> 00:33:06.212 And what I have noticed about girls who had weight issues from a young age, we, 00:33:06.212 --> 00:33:08.092 we go one of two ways and they're extreme. 00:33:08.172 --> 00:33:09.492 They're never middle grounds. 00:33:09.492 --> 00:33:10.682 You were either wallflower, 00:33:10.682 --> 00:33:10.772 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:33:10.772 --> 00:33:16.652 AK: Shy, do not speak, or you are, guess which one I turned out to be you guys? 00:33:17.837 --> 00:33:18.317 Matt: I dunno. 00:33:22.677 --> 00:33:23.517 I think you're right though. 00:33:23.657 --> 00:33:27.077 And I, I'm not allowed to speak on that in any way, shape or form, but 00:33:27.267 --> 00:33:27.707 AK: yeah. 00:33:28.077 --> 00:33:31.037 Matt: From just experience of knowing people, it seems to be 00:33:31.227 --> 00:33:32.957 that, that makes a lot of sense. 00:33:33.322 --> 00:33:33.612 AK: Yeah. 00:33:34.137 --> 00:33:35.357 Matt: Uh, okay. 00:33:35.612 --> 00:33:39.539 AK: But, I think that, you know, so we're talking about my neurodiversity and your 00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:42.979 neurodiversity and, you know, now high school archetypes and things like that. 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.579 But I think, I think both of those parts of my personality, the, the overweight and 00:33:47.709 --> 00:33:56.779 the ADHD fueled my mask because it just sent me on this quest to prove something 00:33:56.899 --> 00:33:57.159 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:01.849 AK: Which not good, but, you know, but to, desperate to fit in because 00:34:01.849 --> 00:34:06.029 I didn't, I didn't look like what people wanted me to, and I didn't 00:34:06.109 --> 00:34:07.449 act like what people wanted me to. 00:34:07.749 --> 00:34:13.289 So I was in a state of constant overdrive 00:34:14.064 --> 00:34:14.354 Matt: Yeah. 00:34:14.969 --> 00:34:17.029 AK: To control what I could control, I guess. 00:34:17.854 --> 00:34:20.234 Matt: And you say that you had some success though, and that's what 00:34:20.254 --> 00:34:23.834 I'm, that's what I'm getting at is, is what happened in those 10 00:34:23.834 --> 00:34:27.034 years because I did the same things. 00:34:27.282 --> 00:34:30.240 what happened in those years where I get beat up 00:34:30.700 --> 00:34:30.990 AK: Yeah, 00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:36.840 Matt: and you, no matter how hard I'm trying, and you you can, you can rise 00:34:36.850 --> 00:34:39.430 above, Lindsay can rise above and 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:41.150 AK: I have a hypothesis there. 00:34:41.510 --> 00:34:42.840 Matt: okay, please. 00:34:43.390 --> 00:34:46.390 AK: I think, first of all, I've long thought this, that you 00:34:46.390 --> 00:34:47.590 were born in the wrong era. 00:34:47.870 --> 00:34:51.390 I am very curious what Matthew Bivins been like if he too had have 00:34:51.390 --> 00:34:55.310 been born somewhere in the early to late eighties, for example. 00:34:55.640 --> 00:34:56.530 Matt: Yeah, me too. 00:34:56.670 --> 00:34:57.010 Me too. 00:34:57.170 --> 00:34:59.630 AK: You are a thousand percent a Gen Xer. 00:34:59.850 --> 00:35:03.870 I'm not trying to pull you in it, but I, I do wonder what, what 00:35:03.870 --> 00:35:04.910 that would've been like for you. 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:09.711 But I think something happened between, I think it started in the seventies and 00:35:09.711 --> 00:35:13.071 I think we started to really deconstruct it as children of the eighties. 00:35:13.091 --> 00:35:15.831 And then children of the nineties, two thousands and beyond are 00:35:15.831 --> 00:35:18.631 like full on bashing it down. 00:35:18.931 --> 00:35:23.951 Is this concept of a binary that there is you know, there's 00:35:24.871 --> 00:35:26.551 are as black or it is white. 00:35:27.151 --> 00:35:31.991 I think that the further into the 21st century, we have gotten, and I have 00:35:31.991 --> 00:35:36.395 this, opinion because of my work with teens, uh, over the past couple of 00:35:36.395 --> 00:35:41.035 decades as a sorority advisor for, uh, college and as a youth advisor for, 00:35:41.215 --> 00:35:43.435 uh, middle school and high schoolers. 00:35:44.265 --> 00:35:47.265 They just don't see the world the same way. 00:35:47.465 --> 00:35:47.525 Matt: Yeah. 00:35:47.855 --> 00:35:48.125 Right. 00:35:48.515 --> 00:35:53.415 AK: And I think that, that there was like, you were just like the tiniest glimmer 00:35:53.605 --> 00:35:58.415 back in the seventies with that of like, hey, there's, you know, nothing is binary. 00:35:58.415 --> 00:36:00.015 Nothing is one thing or another. 00:36:00.145 --> 00:36:01.415 Everything is a spectrum. 00:36:01.801 --> 00:36:02.091 Yeah. 00:36:02.091 --> 00:36:04.601 Matt: That's what I, that's used to say everyday at recess. 00:36:04.791 --> 00:36:05.011 Yeah. 00:36:06.591 --> 00:36:08.031 Everything is spectrum. 00:36:08.431 --> 00:36:09.945 No, but seriously, I did feel that. 00:36:10.105 --> 00:36:11.345 I was always confused by that. 00:36:11.345 --> 00:36:11.625 Yeah. 00:36:11.865 --> 00:36:12.385 Continue, please. 00:36:12.595 --> 00:36:12.945 Right? 00:36:12.975 --> 00:36:15.905 AK: It's funny, my, uh, my best friend's oldest daughter, uh, when 00:36:15.905 --> 00:36:19.785 she was little, she used to say, but I just have a sparkly brain. 00:36:20.545 --> 00:36:26.185 I think just more accepted, you know, for, for people to have sparkly brains now. 00:36:26.185 --> 00:36:29.185 And the problem is, is that you had a sparkly brain when you were coming 00:36:29.185 --> 00:36:30.665 of age, and I had a sparkly brain. 00:36:31.465 --> 00:36:34.225 I think I do, I think that that's what happened between when you came of age 00:36:34.225 --> 00:36:36.985 when Lindsay and I came of age, and then now whatever the hell's going on 00:36:37.005 --> 00:36:39.145 now we're just like, we are who we are. 00:36:39.145 --> 00:36:42.145 And we can be that way as early as we want to be that way. 00:36:42.205 --> 00:36:46.225 And we hundred different things at once and nothing has to be constrained. 00:36:46.510 --> 00:36:46.800 Matt: Yeah. 00:36:47.335 --> 00:36:47.615 AK: I don't 00:36:47.870 --> 00:36:48.880 Matt: Well, uh, well, I love it. 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:49.880 That's, that's a great theory. 00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:53.600 And I especially love the part where it is, it continues to get better 00:36:55.160 --> 00:36:55.760 I see it too. 00:36:56.160 --> 00:36:56.880 I see it too, 00:36:56.910 --> 00:36:57.980 AK: The kids are all right, 00:36:58.500 --> 00:36:58.920 Matt: Mm-hmm. 00:36:59.240 --> 00:37:01.040 , I think the kids are really alright. 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:03.359 When I talk to our friend Nathan about this. 00:37:03.687 --> 00:37:06.897 Because he has a son and he's so in love with his son. 00:37:07.047 --> 00:37:11.897 He's so proud of him and so amazed at how much healing had, has happened 00:37:12.477 --> 00:37:18.097 , how much, how much Gabe is, is able to Gabe's whole generation, not just 00:37:18.097 --> 00:37:19.577 Gabe, but his friends and everybody. 00:37:19.577 --> 00:37:22.657 He's always just, Nate's just glowing about these kids. 00:37:22.797 --> 00:37:28.537 And, and, but we do talk about like, damn man, we did have that sparkly 00:37:28.537 --> 00:37:30.497 brain and we were out of time. 00:37:30.707 --> 00:37:37.197 AK: And then somehow from the ashes, we've got Gen Z flying in on their unicorns 00:37:37.247 --> 00:37:41.577 and Falcore dragon from The Neverending Story cuz they're into retro things now 00:37:42.067 --> 00:37:42.337 Matt: Yes. 00:37:42.337 --> 00:37:46.007 AK: And saving the fricking day by presenting a spectrum 00:37:46.387 --> 00:37:47.967 in literally all that they do. 00:37:48.257 --> 00:37:51.317 It, it's a whole new generation of superheroes 00:37:52.107 --> 00:37:53.727 Matt: Uh, yeah, it is, it is. 00:37:53.867 --> 00:37:55.007 I'm living through y'all. 00:37:55.167 --> 00:37:56.247 I am living through y'all. 00:37:56.307 --> 00:37:59.247 And, and instead of being jealous, okay, I'm a little bit envious. 00:37:59.267 --> 00:38:03.331 I'm a little envious, but Okay, so let's, one, one more thing I'll say 00:38:03.391 --> 00:38:09.314 is that a side effect of masking can mean that you are developing, 00:38:09.461 --> 00:38:12.114 systems and skills that help you 00:38:12.284 --> 00:38:12.404 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:38:12.404 --> 00:38:13.334 Matt: In life. 00:38:13.944 --> 00:38:17.284 You know, I am early now to the airport. 00:38:17.514 --> 00:38:18.764 That is actually a good thing. 00:38:18.784 --> 00:38:20.404 That's a pretty, that's a pretty good thing. 00:38:20.904 --> 00:38:24.884 Uh, and, and I, the only problem is that I now have to dismantle the anxiety 00:38:24.884 --> 00:38:28.324 and depression, um, the comorbidities, 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:28.939 AK: Yes. 00:38:29.384 --> 00:38:33.284 Matt: uh, from those actions late, late, late in life. 00:38:33.744 --> 00:38:37.484 But it is kind of, it's cool that I've developed them, a lot of them. 00:38:38.344 --> 00:38:47.164 Uh, but yeah, j just to be able to be able to have that clean slate and. 00:38:48.299 --> 00:38:52.159 And have the doctors, and have the moms and have the dads around you to be able 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:54.999 to say, okay, you don't have to mask. 00:38:55.680 --> 00:38:58.530 AK: I love how all of this just kind of weaves this web of 00:38:58.720 --> 00:38:59.340 Matt: Me too 00:38:59.370 --> 00:39:03.060 AK: Thought strands us pull at, grabbing at 'em. 00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:04.800 Matt: I, you know what? 00:39:05.150 --> 00:39:08.960 This, even if there's nobody listening to this right now, 00:39:09.110 --> 00:39:10.760 this is still a great podcast. 00:39:11.083 --> 00:39:14.726 Because it's so much to learn, so much to learn 00:39:14.936 --> 00:39:15.356 AK: Mm-hmm. 00:39:16.136 --> 00:39:18.356 We we, we got people listening though. 00:39:18.616 --> 00:39:20.336 We got some of the best people listening. 00:39:20.366 --> 00:39:20.656 I'll 00:39:20.896 --> 00:39:21.196 Matt: We do. 00:39:21.376 --> 00:39:21.766 Thank you. 00:39:22.376 --> 00:39:23.886 Thank y'all for doing so. 00:39:24.531 --> 00:39:25.821 AK: Well, Matt, thanks 00:39:26.196 --> 00:39:27.386 Matt: Well, Alison, 00:39:27.426 --> 00:39:28.636 AK: Coming on my podcast. 00:39:28.936 --> 00:39:30.366 Matt: Thank you for being on my podcast. 00:39:30.781 --> 00:39:35.021 AK: I, I love our journey there that we went from me th profusely thanking 00:39:35.021 --> 00:39:36.341 you for having me on your podcast. 00:39:36.911 --> 00:39:37.781 Every episode. 00:39:39.621 --> 00:39:42.841 to me, having the gumption to say, thanks for being on my podcast, 00:39:45.241 --> 00:39:52.591 To the freaks and the geeks 00:40:04.306 --> 00:40:04.856 Matt: Until next 00:40:04.856 --> 00:40:10.465 week, Oh shit. 00:40:11.979 --> 00:40:16.302 AK: Um, all right, well, glad, glad that we have another banger out there. 00:40:17.577 --> 00:40:18.067 Matt: Banging. 00:40:19.257 --> 00:40:21.387 Yeah, that was actually the word I was looking for. 00:40:21.387 --> 00:40:23.187 Banger I, what did I say? 00:40:23.327 --> 00:40:23.747 Bopper. 00:40:25.357 --> 00:40:26.167 AK: Okay, boomer. 00:40:26.937 --> 00:40:27.227 Matt: Okay. 00:40:27.247 --> 00:40:27.667 Boomer. 00:40:32.862 --> 00:40:36.064 Thank you for listening and being a part of our ADHd20 family. 00:40:36.334 --> 00:40:39.720 If you're looking for more, we'd love to see you in our public Discord server. 00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:44.114 Look for the link in our show notes and come join the chatter about all things 00:40:44.114 --> 00:40:50.981 TTRPG and ADHD, but also TV, music, pretty much anything on our minds. 00:40:51.108 --> 00:40:54.462 Alison: We also have a Patreon where you can get access to bonus content 00:40:54.562 --> 00:40:58.462 and outtakes, be the first to hear new episodes, join us for live streamed 00:40:58.462 --> 00:41:03.477 recording sessions, and even play Dungeons and Dragons with us and our friends. 00:41:03.511 --> 00:41:07.131 Matt: The best way you can help us though, is just to share this podcast 00:41:07.321 --> 00:41:09.371 with people you think will like it. 00:41:09.391 --> 00:41:10.581 Alison: Thank you for being a pal! 00:41:10.721 --> 00:41:15.381 To us as people, to ADHd20 the podcast, and to the greater Bivins Brothers 00:41:15.621 --> 00:41:17.247 Creative Commonwealth of Nerds.