Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part one of my conversation with Jorge
Colon, Associate Professor of Practice at the Center for Veterinary Business
and Entrepreneurship at the College of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University.
More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
My guest today is Jorge Colon, Associate Professor of Practice at
the Center for Veterinary Business and Entrepreneurship at the College of
Veterinary Medicine at Cornell University.
Hi there, Jorge.
How are you?
I'm doing great, Jeff.
Thanks for having me.
Now, you were introduced to us, um, by Pat Graham, uh, from
Cornell University, someone who I have worked with for many years.
He had a lot of, uh, great things to say about you, and I had taken a
look at your bio, and it's really, really, really, really impressive.
Um, I particularly, I really enjoyed seeing your portfolio on Digication,
where I got to learn so much about you.
Um, and once I saw it, I, I thought, wow, we have to, we have to talk to him.
Now, give me, uh, why don't you bring us on that journey a little bit,
perhaps starting literally from you were born and raised in Puerto Rico.
Yeah, so I'm, uh, I'm a Puerto Rico U.
S., uh, I'm born and raised in, in Guaynal, Puerto Rico,
just southwest of San Juan.
And I, I was Um, I grew up there until I finished my high school
education and then I actually came to Ithaca, New York to Cornell
University as an undergrad student.
I studied biology here at Cornell with the goals of going into veterinary
school, something that I did.
I, I went to the Cornell College of Veterinary Medicine.
After my undergraduate years, I graduated in 1995 and I was
an equine trained veterinarian.
I went to Lexington, Kentucky to work as an equine veterinarian
and I did that for about 25 years.
I had a very good professional career down there.
I was pretty much in layman's terms a horse OBGYN and a pediatrician.
So I did that as a self employed veterinarian, but I also had a
passion for business and finance.
So in the process of being a veterinarian, I also Study Finances and I, I received,
uh, I obtained my Master's in Business Administration and during the process
of starting to share information in veterinary business with fellow
colleagues in the veterinary space, an opportunity came here at the College
of Veterinary Medicine at Cornell with the creation of a new center called
the Center for Veterinary Business and Entrepreneurship, which you mentioned.
And there was a position opening, the first position created by the
Center for the Education position.
So I took the, I made a career move and I stopped being a daily
equine veterinarian and I came back.
I came to academia.
I had never been in academia.
So 25 years after I had left Ithaca, New York, I came back.
I moved my whole family across the country to um, start a new career
in education and now I'm tasked with the development and implementation
of veterinary business education for veterinary students within the curriculum
and the creation of our certificate in veterinary business of management.
So I do that now as my full time job but in the meantime when I have time I
still get to go to the barn and teach students how to work with horses and
get some horse hair back on my clothing.
So there you are.
The washer and the dryer have some horse hair, clean horse
hair, but they still have it.
My wife is a very horse person since birth, so not having horse hair
in the washer and dryer has been a weird scenario that we haven't
gotten used to for a while, so.
So that's a very concise description of what I've done.
Um, I, uh, I'm very happy here working with students at Cornell.
It's, uh, it provides great pleasure in helping other people become
better versions of themselves.
And I get to use the skills that I have not only from education,
but also from life experiences.
And so this education platform has served a tremendous purpose for me,
not only for helping students with their growth and personal development.
But also communicating to a people some of the things that I do like you, you
learn a lot about me from my portfolio, which I, I happened to stumble upon what
Digication was during a meeting that I was part of, um, some showcase by, you
mentioned, um, Pat Graham, their, um, center down, down campus, and they had a
showcase of the products that they have available and Digication was one of them.
So very, very long story short, I just stumbled upon Digication and now, uh,
I'm hooked on it, and, and there's all kinds of programs that I have here at
the College that are hooked on it, and, and we kind of, I have some courses
that can't live without it, so, I'm, uh, I'm in for the, for the duration.
Well, that's, that's great to hear.
Uh, you, you said something that I thought was really amazing.
Now, you were, you know, you had a successful career.
You still have it, but you, you started with a successful career for 25 years.
You know, working day to day, full time with horses and animals and, um, and,
um, and of course you had said that you also have an interest in business and
finance and so you got the degree and then you got an opportunity to come back.
What makes you Maybe tell us a little bit more about like that jump, you
know, like from being working, you know, working in a, in the sort of
the professional field, coming back to academia and working with students.
Was it, was teaching something that you'd always wanted?
Because it's, it's really three things.
You are interested in, you know, um, working with horses, but you,
you know, you, you also talked about entrepreneurship and, you
know, business, but also teaching.
Yeah.
I mean, um, let me break it.
Into, down into different parts, because I kind of jumped too quickly into, into
my whole life story in 30 seconds, but as a, as a kid in high school in Puerto Rico,
I was very interested in the sciences and the maths, um, and I started working
at the racetrack with a family friend who was a veterinarian, and I just got
exposed to the horses at the racetrack, and looking to my veterinary years when I,
So all my other classmates in veterinary school who were interested in horses,
they were either riding horses since they were little kids or they grew up
on a farm or I did none of those things.
I, I, I grew up on an island.
I sailed and I snorkel and I scuba dive and I didn't ride horses, but I
developed a love and a passion for The horse as part of my interest in science.
So the science background comes from that.
I pursued biology as a means of achieving something.
I'm the type of person that I did everything that I
recommend my students to not do.
I did not have a plan B.
I had plan A and plan A was the only thing.
And that was, I was going to go to school to become a veterinarian.
I didn't really have plan B, which is a bad idea.
And I teach my students to not do that now, and you know, do as I
say, not as I do type of scenario.
So that's one part.
The teaching part is something that I didn't know I had in me, other than when
I was talking to clients as part of my professional career as a veterinarian,
clients would, you know, I, there's a difference in my mind between
teaching, where it's a one sided, I know something, you don't know it, and
I'm gonna make sure that you are aware of the fact that I know more than you.
That's one way of doing it.
And unfortunately, there's too many people that do it that way.
The way that I prefer to say is I like to share knowledge.
So if I gain knowledge on something from experience or from education, if
part of my cultural bringing to you wanna share that with someone else and
make you a better version of yourself.
Um, one of the statements that I made here that that's, that's been copied by some
of my colleagues is that at one point in time I can't remember what exactly what.
What's after we're talking about confidence.
And I said something, I made something that said, uh, confidence is the
ability to help someone become a better version of themselves, even if that
means they'll become better than you.
And to me, that's what teaching is to me, teaching is sharing knowledge.
And so I started doing that with clients.
We would have students coming by to visit.
I was that student at one point in time working underneath a veterinarian
and just learning to be a better version of that, which I wanted to
be was extremely important for me.
So being able to do that for was something that just became important to me because
A, I enjoyed it and B, I was being told that, you know, I was actually good at it.
And I, they could relate more to me because I wasn't this person
that was trying to make sure that, hey, I know more than you.
I want to teach you some stuff, but at the end of the day, I want to make sure that
you know that I still know more than you.
That, that's just not who the person that I am.
Upbringing, Culture, and everything else.
And so, those two things were combined.
Now, I also combined the fact that I also had a deep passion
for business and finance.
I grew up in a business family.
I'm the ugly duckling of my family that did not pursue a business degree.
Straight out of, you know, as part of my career.
I am the only family member outside of a cousin that's a science background, as a
biochemist, and she was a science teacher.
I'm the only one who has a medical or science degree in my family.
So, in the process of being a veterinarian and running my own business, I started
working with fellow colleagues and friends with helping them with their
business in the process of surviving as a veterinarian, because you need to
have a business to be able to survive.
You can be a great veterinarian, but if you don't take care of your business,
you don't, you don't have a job tomorrow.
And so all things got combined slowly, but surely, and then a passion was
developed for Sharing knowledge about a passion of mine, which was business
within a space that was a passion of mine, which is the veterinary medicine space.
And we're in 2023 now, but back in 2015, 2016, the words veterinary
and business used to never be mentioned in the same sentence.
It's just not a common thing.
I have a job doing this now, but this job did not exist way back, you know,
way back, meaning eight years ago.
I remember clearly when I was in business school, one of my professors
That became a really big mentor for me.
He said, Jorge, you're training for a job that doesn't exist.
What you're, what you're wanting to do with your two passions, Veterinary
Medicine and Business, just a job for that specifically doesn't exist.
And it didn't, until for me, it was the creation of the center.
So, the combination of, Those three things, science, finances, business, and
the desire to share knowledge and teach in the way that I like to do, just came
together like a perfect storm and all combined at a moment in time in my career
where I was I had spent enough time doing one of the things that I really had a
passion for and I still love and loved what I was doing, but I just had another
passion that I had the opportunity to pursue, which I love and I love doing.
I did not abandon one for the other.
I think in my mind, I still get to do a little bit of both.
So that's, that's, that's a combination all in put together to,
to create the space where I'm at now.
You're an amazing example of what, um, what's, uh, what, uh, I, I, I think what.
What a lot of people actually like, but are scared to or have been, they've had
to suppress that because of societal norms or what's expected of them.
Or maybe it's for other reasons, maybe financially they need to take a job and
then they take them in certain directions.
But even in those cases, you know, like now people have many
careers, you know, most people, um, uh, you know, don't try to.
You know, have this very linear, pre planned path where they go, I studied
this and I want to work in this firm for the next 40 years and I'm
going to retire and then that's it.
Um, in fact, I think, you know, students today would think of that
concept as being unimaginable.
Like how, how boring, how How, how single sided, you know, that would be to a
single, you know, so single dimension, singly, singly dimensional to, to life.
You know, they want to do all kinds of things.
They want to have all kinds of experiences.
And the fact of the matter is that Um, I, I feel like that you are a perfect
example of it, but you know, we are all have a special blend in a way, right?
You have this passion for, um, for, for the, for the, for the three
things that you talked about and that you are good at them, right?
You have aptitude for them and you have developed passion and developed
a way to get, to put them together.
Um, but our students do the same things too, don't you think?
You know, I'm sure you see a lot of that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I tell the students all the time that as much as it seems
like I have life completely under control because I'm this Mentorship
figure that they now see, right?
Because in my mind, I'm still like one of them But really they could be my children
because they're the age of my children.
So I'm much older.
My mind just doesn't want to accept it Um, as much as it sounds in my
head, like I, uh, everything in my life under control, my life really has
been taking advantage of opportunities that have just presented to me.
You just gotta be prepared to take advantage of them.
When I, when I left school, I was never going to be working with
mayors and foals, with moms and babies in the Thoroughbred industry.
I was not gonna do that.
I wanted to be an equine surgeon.
And one thing led to the other, and something that I said I'm never
gonna do again became what I did.
for a career.
And that's what I did in my professional career as a veterinarian.
I worked in something that was not part of the plan.
Um, coming to academia was never part of the plan at all.
Not even a thought process of I want to someday become a
faculty member at a university.
That was not a thought process at all, but an opportunity presented itself
that The right place, the right time.
It was just perfect for, so, so life has been just a continuous
zigzag for an opportunities.
You have to be prepared to be able to take advantage of them, but I don't
care what plan I had when I was younger.
That plan went out the window a long, long, long time ago.
And still to this day, every plan that I have, you know, it's not
that I'm just throwing plants out the window left and right, but.
Opportunities are presented in front of me based on the accomplishments of the
different things that you're doing and so you just follow them and you pursue
them and then you have a passion for them and some things you get good at and
you follow those some things you're not that good at and then you find someone
else that's better than you at those and then you follow the ones worth pursuing
and, and that's where we end up at.
But yeah, the concept of staying for your whole career doing one thing that
is just not the norm in today's Society, and I guess I'm a little bit of an
example that even though I grew up in a, uh, uh, longer ago society, um, I, I
still live by the present day scenario of, hey, uh, things change, and you
gotta be, you better be ready for it.
And I think that's actually one of the things that I have found.
I want to go into sort of the idea of higher education for a minute, because I
think you are such a great example of it.
There are.
You know, I, I, I talk to a lot of people, sometimes some of them parents,
some of them are just pundits who talk about what, what's the value of
higher education, you know, and higher education, in fact, is under attack a lot
of the times, you know, Is it expensive?
Is it worth it?
And then some people start to make all kinds of, um, assumptions that I think
are just, is incredibly incorrect.
You know, assumptions such as, well, if I just wanted the skills, why is the school
teaching me all kinds of, all these, you know, things that are, The liberal
arts classes, the general education classes, et cetera, that doesn't matter.
Now, I'm not, by the way, saying that that's the only way to do it, but people
have this sort of immense sort of, you know, sort of oversimplification
of education could be done.
But just by saying straight line, you wanna learn this skill, take this
class, do this exercise, you learn the skill, now you're ready to go.
Um, and, and I think that it's actually.
Um, you are sort of that proof, which is, no, actually you, you kind of need
all kinds of other padding, all kinds of other support structure that allows
you to veer off and take advantage of opportunities should they come your way.
And guess what?
If you have all the padding to do that stuff, they will
come and you can get them.
You can catch them.
Um, otherwise, you do actually corner yourself into a very singularly minded
path that I think one could feel extremely trapped, actually, if anything.
You know, you, you, you train to this one thing, you have no, you know, it doesn't
feel like you have the skills to do all these other things, and you yourself
had said, look, even if I just want to practice, it's a business I have to run.
I have to figure out how to bill people, I have to figure out the
market, I have to figure out how to.
You know, communicate with people.
So, just being able to be that, you know, surgeon doesn't,
is not good enough, right?
Yeah, all of this, you know, I, there's a motivational speaker, Jim Rohn.
Was a key component of some of the decision making process that,
uh, that had me switch careers midlife by following two passions.
And one of the most important things that I learned from him is a phrase that he
uses where he says, To succeed in life, you have to have more than one skill.
And so, I agree with you, there's people who have a single set of skills and
they can actually have a pretty good life based on that one set of skills.
The issue, not a problem, but the issue with that is that there could
be other opportunities for different scenarios, there could be betterment,
there could be anything, but they might not be able to take advantage of them
because they don't have the skills to be prepared to take advantage,
even to recognize the opportunity.
Not only can they not take advantage of the opportunity, but they might not even
recognize that there's an opportunity.
So, if you have more than one skill, if you have multiple skills, you actually
end up having different opportunities.
So you can do that zig and zagging associated with life changes that
we just talked about a second ago, based on how life evolves.
It doesn't mean that one person is better than the other person, it's
that one person might be providing themselves with better opportunities
to address opportunities that come by, which is exactly what you said.
And that's exactly what's happened with my career.
The, the wanting to have more than one skill is an essential concept that,
that Jim Rohn made me think about, you know, probably I was driving in my
vehicle, driving from farm A to farm B with, you know, we used to call it
windshield time and that time spent on the vehicle during farm calls.
And it's, you know, it starts gets you thinking, you know,
I already speak Spanish.
I grew up speaking Spanish, I speak English, I speak Spanglish, I speak
barn Spanish, I, you know, I have multiple language skills, but now
I speak the language of finance.
I speak the language of business.
Now I can speak the language of those things in the education side, like
how do I communicate with students learning the differences between.
When I was a student here at the college versus the students that we have here
now, their, their cultural upbringing is different, the, um, mentality, the, um,
it's just a different type of student.
So, so you adapt to that and you have to develop a skill to be able
to adapt to the changes, even though the scenario is the same thing,
they're learning veterinary medicine.
And so, as you're saying, Not one person is necessarily better than another, but,
but having multiple skills just allows you to be more a jack of all trades, to
be able to adapt to different scenarios.
Now, you had said that current students mentality is different, and I, I agree.
I, I have observed it myself as well, and I am, by the way, a little bit like you,
where I, I kept thinking I'm like them, and, and then, and then I, um, Just last
week, I was at a dentist and the dentist said, I won't share too much details here,
but the dentist said, you know, you're, you have this issue, but generally,
you know, we would, we would treat it, but at your age, we can just moderate.
I'm only at my age.
I, I don't think I'm like at the, at my age conversation.
Um, but I, sometimes I, you know, catch myself with that and I have,
you know, teenager, you know, children who Who keep telling me, you know,
like at your age, um, and, and, um, and I, I have noticed though, the
mentality is, it really is different.
What is your observation when you talk to your students?
How it compares to when you were their age and that you were also a
student at the undergraduate level?
Well, I'll be careful here with my words because I don't want to make it sound
like, yeah, when we were younger, we were uphill both ways and all that stuff.
I don't want to say that, but.
Just, um, the mentality of the student is different, um, uh, these
are real things that obviously we had when we were younger.
We just didn't talk about it or think about it or it wasn't a societal
issue, but mental health for example.
Um, I was just talking to some students this morning.
Um, they are in their fourth year clinical rotation here through the hospital.
They rotate through the different sections within the hospital, large
animals, small animal, multiple things.
And I was talking to some students who are in large animal and they were working
with some horses and some cows and pigs.
And they were talking about the fact that they were on their second week of their
rotation and they were physically tired of the tremendous amount of work that
they have to do as students working and the long hours required by the rotation.
And I was stopping by because I was doing something in the barn and they said, Dr.
Colon, how did you do this when you were in practice?
Because at one point in time, you told us that we're at, at one point in
your career, you were starting at the farm at five o'clock in the morning.
What time were you making it home?
And my answer was, well, whenever the last emergency was taken care of.
Sometimes it was five o'clock in the afternoon and sometimes it
was two o'clock in the morning.
And they're like, well, what time did you go to work the next day?
I'm like, well, I was at the first farm at five o'clock in the morning.
But you just said you went to bed at two.
I'm like, well, sometimes I didn't go to bed because I
had to be at the farm at five.
So we, we had a mentality about work that is not trying to say anything
that is superior to what they have now.
I'm not trying to say that at all.
But the component of mental health comes now into the equation, something
that Again, not that we didn't have that, but it's, it's in the
forefront of conversations today in work life balance, for example.
The words work life balance exist as individual words, but they were
not part of the same sentence back when I graduated back in 1995, right?
And so So, so some of the approaches to workload and need for time off for
the compression and the ability to have self time and all the things,
it's different now than it was then.
Um, and so some of the things translate to the components
of in the classroom scenario.
Um, I remember when I was a student, um, and it didn't, it didn't matter
how long of a night you not had the night before because you were
studying or you were having a really good time with your friends.
For the most part, most of us just showed up to class the next day.
Like you didn't skip a class.
Not attending classes in person now is actually a very, very common scenario.
People now have the opportunity because of things that happened with COVID.
All classes, most of the foundation classes are recorded for many
different reasons, um, students that need, um, special services needs that
need classes, recording, et cetera.
So people are taking advantage of that.
And then they just don't show up to class.
And that's something that I would have never done when I was in their shoes.
So, so the method of learning is even different.
Um, because of the technology that they have available, when you and I were
probably in school recording class was never even a component of anything unless
somebody had a VHS camera and that would have been like brand new technology.
So, so there's things that are different and they translate into changes in the way
that students learn or students approach learning and the way that these people
approach the work that needs to be done.
So all these things are different.
Not that we were climbing uphill both ways, but it's just different
in a different way for them.
It's difficult for them the way it is for them now.
It was difficult for us the way that it was for us back then.
I mean, it's just a different scenario.
I, as a mentor for them now and a teacher for them, now I have to adapt
to their system and not let those Thoughts in my head of what it was like
when I was here influence how I think they should be feeling because now
I gotta adapt to what they're doing.
So there's just changes.
It's just different.
I think that's amazing that you're able to talk about those things so,
um, you know, you simplified it.
So it's very easy to understand and see those scenarios.
Because I feel the same way.
I mean, I'm one of the creators of Digication.
And when we created Digication, there's a certain pedagogical There's a lot of
pedagogical goals that we try to reach, but I will say that some of the ways
that I see how people use it today.
Those are not the ways that I had thought that I, how I would have used it when I
was, you know, a student at their age.
Um, when I was thinking about things like people are reflecting on things
kind of similar to your windshield time.
Um, it's not to that level of sort of reflection.
It's always about the work itself.
You know, so I studied, I had studied to be an architect.
So I'm using that time to think about deeply on the architectural
concepts or ideas I might have or different solutions to a problem.
But you know what I have discovered today, as much as we, you know, you just talked
about work life balance, but I also think that it comes with people now starting
to talk about meaning and purpose.
And meaning and purpose was not something that me or my classmates talked about.
We would talk about the rigor of the work itself.
You know, like how, how brilliant this solution could be, et cetera.
It gets actually almost like overly nerdy and philosophical sometimes,
but it doesn't go into the.
Meaning and purpose so much.
Today, I hear architecture students talk about how does architecture and the space
that we build create justice for society.
You know, how do we do this to reflect on, you know, climate change
and, you know, change in, you know, whatever the issues that are in the
world, maybe locally or globally.
Those are the kind of things that I felt like we didn't even have
the language to even talk about.
And I don't know, maybe I was just super naive and was just my hand in
the, you know, in the sand too much.
I couldn't tell what's going on in the rest of the world and now
maybe that's just more amplified.
So I, I do think that, you know, as much as, you know, these changes
also had brought in some really interesting components that,
that to me is really different.
I see students portfolios these days, you know.
The, it's almost like it takes, I also, by the way, was traded as an architect
and look what I, you know, I'm like doing all completely different things.
So sort of multiple career and, you know, taking on the opportunities.
I felt really lucky about that.
I almost feel like some students when I see their portfolios.
You know, they're, they're, they're in college.
They already have had those experiences in life.
You know, they tried internships, they tried, they did study abroad.
They did, you know, um, you know, uh, had certain opportunities
when they were young, etc.
And they already taking the time to have those moments.
And I really felt like I didn't have that, you know?
Yeah, when, I agree with everything you just said and, and just going
back slightly, um, I agree with you.
I, in my mind, I want to think that these things that we're experiencing
today did not exist when we were them.
But they did, they just weren't amplified, just like you say, it's more a forefront
within today's culture than it was back then, it cannot be something that
just was created brand new, it just existed all along, we either did not pay
attention even though it was around us, so I think you and I are very similar
in that way, or it was just not part of, it was not amplified within the society
that we lived in, I don't think it's new, I just think that it was just Not
that big of a factor when back when.
I think you're absolutely right.
I mean, I, I did remember clearly that it was a lot about like, I need to find
a job and career and, and, and, and survive and make money and pay rent.
You know, but it was not, um, I guess that, you know, all of us would have
wanted something that we like doing, you know, but, but that was not as important,
you know, it was, it was almost like, I just wanted to make it, it, it didn't,
didn't matter, give me a job and I'll do it, you know, at least that's how I
felt, you know, we didn't have the, you know, it just, um, you know, sometimes
you also don't know enough, right?
Um, you don't know enough, like we weren't exposed, climate change exists.
You know, Al Gore wasn't there to talk about it, and so unless you are
really, uh, uh, really niche into understanding, you know, as a climate
scientist, you wouldn't be aware.
Um, right?
You know, I'm very much like you in that regards.
Um, completely agree.
And to touch on a point you said on the latter part of your previous statement,
where you talked about what you see on the students Digication portfolios
today, I'm living this exact same thing that you're describing, because now I'm
afraid actually that this usage of the portfolio with my veterinary students,
you know, we talk about imposter syndrome within the veterinary space, because
it's a big, really big deal, you know, imposter syndrome is a It's a very
real scenario and more so in the, the healthcare scenario where one day you're
Joel or Jane Doe and next day you're Dr.
Joel or Jane Doe, right?
And so you have these responsibilities and so, um, I, I help students to understand
how to, you cannot eliminate it, but you can, how do you, how do you handle it?
How do you cope with it?
How do you conquer it?
Et cetera.
As I look at these students portfolio and I see exactly what you're saying, The
things that they have accomplished, the things that they have done, the languages
they speak, the places that they've been, the research that they've done, at, at
their age, I hadn't done, like, I hadn't even dreamed of doing those things.
So I'm like, I'm feeling more and more like an imposter because I'm
their teacher for this course.
And so the more and more I read these portfolios, the more and more blown away
I am by the fact that when I was them.
I was nowhere close to being the quality of the people that these people are
when I was at that stage of their life, so, so I need to, uh, always try to
prevent them from seeing me as, uh, completely an imposter for, for being
the quote unquote teacher of their class, but, but I'm seeing the exact
same thing that you're mentioning.
The things that these students are accomplishing at a much younger age.
Age in their career is incredible, incredible.
And to me, that's one of the biggest values of the portfolio, the
ability to showcase these things.
Um, and when we get to talking about the portfolio, I can share more on it, but.
But it's what's creating the difference and how the portfolio
within the way that I use it here at the college has just taken off like
a wildfire in the process of creating a difference for these students.
This concludes part one of our conversation.
To hear part two.
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