WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.030 VictoriaM: Welcome to a special bonus episode of The Chemical Show. 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:05.880 I'm Victoria Meyer, your host. 00:00:05.930 --> 00:00:11.940 And I recently had the opportunity to engage in a series of really enlightening 00:00:11.940 --> 00:00:16.360 discussions at the Marsh North American Energy and Power Symposium. 00:00:16.759 --> 00:00:20.540 Today, I'm excited to share a standout conversation with Mike 00:00:20.610 --> 00:00:25.130 Kolodner, who is the U S Energy and Power Leader at Marsh, as well as 00:00:25.130 --> 00:00:26.970 the Global Renewable Energy Leader. 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:32.699 We dive into the complexities of the energy transition and the pivotal 00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:36.849 role that the chemical industry plays in this transformative period. 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:40.760 In fact, one of the things that really stood out about our conversation is 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:45.489 this realization that as the chemical industry, we We are some of the 00:00:45.500 --> 00:00:49.940 biggest consumers of electricity and we need to be making our voice heard. 00:00:50.199 --> 00:00:53.930 So I felt this conversation was way too important to be kept under 00:00:53.930 --> 00:00:57.779 wraps, which is why I'm bringing it to you as a bonus episode. 00:00:57.789 --> 00:00:59.429 Don't forget to check out the show notes. 00:00:59.549 --> 00:01:03.759 I'm linking the other episodes and interviews that I had at the symposium, 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:09.339 including Peter Huntsman from Huntsman Corporation, Rob Lee CEO of Dragos, 00:01:09.639 --> 00:01:14.539 and of course my compilation of risk insights from the Marsh leaders. 00:01:14.549 --> 00:01:15.929 So stay tuned. 00:01:16.039 --> 00:01:18.079 I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation. 00:01:20.349 --> 00:01:24.739 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where chemical means business. 00:01:25.109 --> 00:01:28.889 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:01:28.889 --> 00:01:32.799 from leaders, driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:01:33.709 --> 00:01:38.009 Each week, we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:01:38.009 --> 00:01:39.759 strategies that make an impact. 00:01:40.059 --> 00:01:41.139 Let's get started. 00:01:42.433 --> 00:01:46.433 VictoriaM: So I am speaking with Mike Kolodner, who is the US 00:01:46.473 --> 00:01:50.053 energy and power leader and global renewable energy leader at Marsh. 00:01:50.053 --> 00:01:53.493 So you're doing a lot of great things across the company. 00:01:53.493 --> 00:01:56.993 I know you're getting ready to lead a session on wildfires, which 00:01:57.033 --> 00:01:59.823 we're not talking about today, although it is certainly in the 00:01:59.823 --> 00:02:04.023 news as we record this with The, um, fire out in California, Pacific 00:02:04.023 --> 00:02:06.803 Palisades and, uh, you know, a lot of 00:02:06.862 --> 00:02:08.192 Loss that's taking place. 00:02:08.192 --> 00:02:09.512 It's pretty, pretty crazy. 00:02:09.552 --> 00:02:13.802 Um, but we're going to be talking a little bit more just about the realities of the 00:02:13.802 --> 00:02:16.202 energy transition because I know that's one of the things that you talk about. 00:02:16.202 --> 00:02:19.632 So before we get into that though, tell us just a little bit about yourself. 00:02:20.112 --> 00:02:20.113 Mike C.: 00:02:20.112 --> 00:02:22.122 Yeah, I'm responsible for Marsha's U. 00:02:22.122 --> 00:02:22.232 S. 00:02:22.232 --> 00:02:23.372 Energy and Power business. 00:02:23.732 --> 00:02:26.112 Um, I sit on our Global Energy and Power Executive. 00:02:26.112 --> 00:02:28.272 We're a little unique in that our energy and power business 00:02:28.282 --> 00:02:30.302 is an actual global business. 00:02:30.322 --> 00:02:32.542 Um, and so we're fully coordinated. 00:02:32.542 --> 00:02:34.382 And many of our clients are multinational. 00:02:34.432 --> 00:02:36.592 Um, so we, you know, that makes a lot of sense for us. 00:02:37.052 --> 00:02:39.612 Um, so in that capacity, I oversee kind of our global 00:02:39.612 --> 00:02:40.982 renewable energy efforts as well. 00:02:41.072 --> 00:02:43.582 Um, which, you know, considering this is a chemical podcast, you 00:02:43.582 --> 00:02:45.512 might say that's not that relevant. 00:02:45.512 --> 00:02:47.562 Sometimes it's, uh, it's helpful to have that title. 00:02:47.882 --> 00:02:51.322 Sometimes it's, um, it can be a burden, but I would say, um, you 00:02:51.322 --> 00:02:52.622 know, I'm, I'm generally agnostic. 00:02:52.622 --> 00:02:55.592 I was trained as a nuclear engineer, um, I was in the submarine 00:02:55.592 --> 00:02:56.822 force for a couple of years. 00:02:56.822 --> 00:03:01.092 And, and when I came into risk management, I came in through kind 00:03:01.092 --> 00:03:02.602 of the nuclear energy door, if you 00:03:02.602 --> 00:03:03.992 will, um, to 00:03:03.992 --> 00:03:06.722 be a, uh, an advisor and consultant to the nuclear industry. 00:03:06.752 --> 00:03:12.047 So You know, I'm now, I've held a bunch of different roles, uh, joined Marsh in 2006. 00:03:12.487 --> 00:03:15.697 I've left twice to go work full time, uh, for clients. 00:03:15.777 --> 00:03:18.727 Um, so I've been, uh, you know, I've been 00:03:18.822 --> 00:03:19.942 VictoriaM: And they've hired you back. 00:03:20.137 --> 00:03:20.138 Mike C.: 00:03:20.137 --> 00:03:21.867 Yeah, I would say it's, um, 00:03:21.887 --> 00:03:23.717 well It was in the best interest of 00:03:23.717 --> 00:03:24.187 VictoriaM: the client 00:03:24.277 --> 00:03:24.278 Mike C.: 00:03:24.277 --> 00:03:28.387 and my career and, uh, Marsh, I would think, uh, you know, that I 00:03:28.387 --> 00:03:29.427 take those roles, but it was good. 00:03:29.627 --> 00:03:33.307 I worked for, um, a company called, uh, Exelon Corp, which was, uh, 00:03:33.707 --> 00:03:35.907 you know, we acquired a company called Constellation Energy, which 00:03:35.907 --> 00:03:37.097 is also in the news today, but, 00:03:37.137 --> 00:03:38.837 VictoriaM: uh Oh, I missed that, okay. 00:03:38.917 --> 00:03:39.107 I'll have 00:03:39.107 --> 00:03:39.108 Mike C.: 00:03:39.107 --> 00:03:43.422 they've got, uh, there's, uh, there's a, uh, potential, uh, Merger 00:03:43.692 --> 00:03:46.082 that's pretty significant in the energy space that's that's happening. 00:03:46.082 --> 00:03:46.322 Anyway, 00:03:47.102 --> 00:03:48.112 so I spent five years there. 00:03:48.112 --> 00:03:54.212 It was fantastic Came back to Marsh Left again to go essentially be the chief 00:03:54.212 --> 00:03:58.122 underwriting officer and head of member relations for an industry mutual insurance 00:03:58.122 --> 00:03:58.472 company 00:03:58.987 --> 00:03:59.547 VictoriaM: Um, 00:03:59.642 --> 00:03:59.643 Mike C.: 00:03:59.642 --> 00:04:02.607 So yeah, I mean I've kind of but I've Basically, I'd like to say 00:04:02.627 --> 00:04:04.057 I've been at Marsh since 2006. 00:04:04.467 --> 00:04:06.477 Um, yeah, and that's, that's what I do. 00:04:06.517 --> 00:04:08.797 VictoriaM: what's interesting is a number of the people I've spoken with, 00:04:08.897 --> 00:04:13.217 both for the podcast, but just, um, in the conference, uh, these last couple 00:04:13.217 --> 00:04:15.737 of days, have a military background. 00:04:15.987 --> 00:04:16.127 Really? 00:04:16.127 --> 00:04:17.042 Yeah. 00:04:17.042 --> 00:04:17.957 Interesting. 00:04:17.967 --> 00:04:17.968 Mike C.: 00:04:17.967 --> 00:04:18.497 Interesting. 00:04:18.497 --> 00:04:18.707 Yeah. 00:04:18.737 --> 00:04:18.837 VictoriaM: I 00:04:18.837 --> 00:04:20.127 was gonna, is there a connection? 00:04:20.167 --> 00:04:20.237 I 00:04:20.337 --> 00:04:20.338 Mike C.: 00:04:20.337 --> 00:04:20.477 there's 00:04:20.537 --> 00:04:25.937 definitely, I mean, I would say it's, uh, within the energy space, broadly 00:04:25.937 --> 00:04:31.472 defined, you know, The, the, the military, the navy in particular, it's um, you 00:04:31.472 --> 00:04:35.072 know, but really all Branches of military service, they're incredibly technical. 00:04:35.392 --> 00:04:39.952 So, you know, engineers tend to do really well, a lot of discipline, 00:04:40.232 --> 00:04:44.962 but also I think the energy industry broadly defined has always been a 00:04:44.962 --> 00:04:50.402 place that has attracted and gone out of their way to make opportunities 00:04:50.402 --> 00:04:51.802 available for transitioning veterans. 00:04:51.822 --> 00:04:53.982 So, we do see a high concentration of it. 00:04:54.232 --> 00:04:58.132 Um, yeah, I run into folks, I run into folks from, from my Navy community all 00:04:58.142 --> 00:04:58.262 VictoriaM: the time. 00:04:58.562 --> 00:04:58.762 That's 00:04:58.762 --> 00:04:58.982 cool. 00:04:59.082 --> 00:04:59.722 That's really cool. 00:04:59.972 --> 00:05:02.842 So I know one of the things we were talking about as we were teeing up 00:05:02.842 --> 00:05:06.512 for this conversation here was, uh, Peter Huntsman was the keynote speaker 00:05:06.552 --> 00:05:08.602 yesterday, um, to kick off the event. 00:05:08.612 --> 00:05:09.452 Really great. 00:05:09.732 --> 00:05:14.682 And, and he talked a lot about, Energy and just the realities of where we 00:05:14.712 --> 00:05:20.522 are from an energy usage perspective, how it ties into climate and, uh, 00:05:20.572 --> 00:05:24.102 in carbon emissions, et cetera, but also just the energy transition and 00:05:24.102 --> 00:05:26.812 what's really where we really are. 00:05:27.037 --> 00:05:29.117 So, can you just talk about that a little bit, from 00:05:29.167 --> 00:05:29.168 Mike C.: 00:05:29.167 --> 00:05:31.267 no, I, I think he was, well, one, he 00:05:31.367 --> 00:05:31.640 VictoriaM: he 00:05:31.867 --> 00:05:31.868 Mike C.: 00:05:31.867 --> 00:05:32.647 fantastic. 00:05:32.647 --> 00:05:32.767 I 00:05:32.767 --> 00:05:36.247 think, um, initially, I mean, this is a, this is an energy and power. 00:05:36.817 --> 00:05:37.387 VictoriaM: conference. 00:05:37.857 --> 00:05:37.858 Mike C.: 00:05:37.857 --> 00:05:38.347 So, 00:05:38.377 --> 00:05:39.047 for, for the 00:05:39.127 --> 00:05:39.947 VictoriaM: chemical, a little bit of 00:05:40.107 --> 00:05:40.108 Mike C.: 00:05:40.107 --> 00:05:42.817 well, so this thing, so for the layperson, it's like, so, so again, 00:05:42.817 --> 00:05:44.027 what, where's chemical fit in this? 00:05:44.027 --> 00:05:47.147 And it's, well, no, chemical is energy. 00:05:47.247 --> 00:05:49.117 It is, I mean, chemical is energy, right? 00:05:49.117 --> 00:05:51.892 So when we think about, What, the words we're using here, I would 00:05:51.892 --> 00:05:54.432 just say, there were a lot of folks who were initially kind of like, 00:05:55.152 --> 00:05:57.652 all right, so Peter Huntsman's your keynote at an Energy Empowered Well, 00:05:57.662 --> 00:05:58.882 I don't understand that a little bit. 00:05:58.882 --> 00:05:59.182 Okay. 00:05:59.182 --> 00:05:59.722 The second 00:05:59.722 --> 00:06:02.372 he got up, but the second he got up and started talking, 00:06:02.527 --> 00:06:03.803 VictoriaM: and started talking, you 00:06:03.842 --> 00:06:03.843 Mike C.: 00:06:03.842 --> 00:06:08.692 500 people now have a full appreciation for why this is so critical to talk about. 00:06:08.712 --> 00:06:10.242 And I think the best part about his. 00:06:10.312 --> 00:06:14.902 entire conversation was it was grounded in the realities, you know, 00:06:15.402 --> 00:06:20.472 Huntsman is a business that does incredibly important things for all 00:06:20.487 --> 00:06:20.587 VictoriaM: of 00:06:20.587 --> 00:06:21.577 us. 00:06:21.577 --> 00:06:21.917 And 00:06:22.092 --> 00:06:22.093 Mike C.: 00:06:22.092 --> 00:06:24.022 we are making it really difficult 00:06:24.037 --> 00:06:24.267 VictoriaM: for 00:06:24.592 --> 00:06:24.593 Mike C.: 00:06:24.592 --> 00:06:28.362 for him to continue to compete and for his business to be successful 00:06:28.632 --> 00:06:31.842 in support of many of the very things that we are claiming to want. 00:06:32.232 --> 00:06:36.392 And I was comments around, you know, the, the, the carbon footprint associated with. 00:06:36.607 --> 00:06:38.257 building and deploying a wind turbine, for 00:06:38.257 --> 00:06:38.717 example. 00:06:39.137 --> 00:06:40.377 he is not wrong. 00:06:40.387 --> 00:06:41.717 That is reality, right? 00:06:41.717 --> 00:06:42.257 So 00:06:42.257 --> 00:06:42.567 VictoriaM: Right. 00:06:42.677 --> 00:06:46.597 And the, and the number of chemical products that are needed for it. 00:06:46.897 --> 00:06:47.947 Um, and then 00:06:48.017 --> 00:06:48.018 Mike C.: 00:06:48.017 --> 00:06:49.427 And don't even get me started on batteries 00:06:49.427 --> 00:06:50.257 and solar panels cause 00:06:50.347 --> 00:06:52.537 VictoriaM: going to say, and that, and then the end of life. 00:06:52.627 --> 00:06:57.147 aspects of it, which, which shows up, but it's, um, it does, it's not 00:06:57.147 --> 00:07:00.117 really showing up from a regulatory perspective as far as I can tell. 00:07:00.127 --> 00:07:00.817 From where I sit. 00:07:00.847 --> 00:07:01.557 I don't really know. 00:07:01.597 --> 00:07:02.227 Uh, you 00:07:02.382 --> 00:07:02.383 Mike C.: 00:07:02.382 --> 00:07:04.762 it is, but I would say the other one though, and this is the one 00:07:04.762 --> 00:07:07.992 that, um, it didn't really occur to me until I was really kind of. 00:07:08.857 --> 00:07:12.157 Digesting his comments with, with some folks last night over, over dinner. 00:07:12.157 --> 00:07:15.507 But actually, um, one of the things that I learned when I was, when I 00:07:15.507 --> 00:07:19.177 was at Exelon was like, I got kind of deep in, um, utility holding 00:07:19.177 --> 00:07:20.967 company and utility operations. 00:07:21.497 --> 00:07:22.577 And it was fascinating to me. 00:07:22.577 --> 00:07:25.887 One of the things I learned, which I did not know going into it, and I found it so 00:07:25.887 --> 00:07:30.497 fascinating, was it's not what you and I use or consume from an energy perspective 00:07:30.497 --> 00:07:33.327 that really drives the engine of these 00:07:33.347 --> 00:07:33.857 VictoriaM: these large 00:07:33.867 --> 00:07:33.977 companies, right? 00:07:34.217 --> 00:07:34.218 Mike C.: 00:07:34.217 --> 00:07:34.917 companies, right? 00:07:34.967 --> 00:07:36.107 What drives it 00:07:36.707 --> 00:07:37.497 VictoriaM: is our. 00:07:37.652 --> 00:07:37.653 Mike C.: 00:07:37.652 --> 00:07:39.292 commercial and industrial 00:07:39.487 --> 00:07:42.247 VictoriaM: Yes, but the industrial complex, so to 00:07:42.342 --> 00:07:42.343 Mike C.: 00:07:42.342 --> 00:07:45.402 and like if you look at uh, Lawrence Livermore Labs puts out every year the 00:07:45.402 --> 00:07:48.362 sources and uses of energy, you know, where it's generated from, how it's 00:07:48.362 --> 00:07:51.272 consumed, um, and it's a fascinating, it's a very simple chart, I 00:07:51.272 --> 00:07:51.462 use 00:07:51.462 --> 00:07:51.572 it. 00:07:51.572 --> 00:07:53.672 like with my kids, it's awesome, yeah, it's very cool. 00:07:53.962 --> 00:07:57.112 Um, but when you look at who the consumers are, right, so industry, 00:07:57.592 --> 00:07:59.682 whether it's tech or chemical, right? 00:08:00.107 --> 00:08:02.057 That's who we create the energy for. 00:08:02.527 --> 00:08:03.147 They're the ones who 00:08:03.147 --> 00:08:03.697 need it. 00:08:03.987 --> 00:08:07.967 So I thought that was fascinating that he really attacked it because we had 00:08:07.977 --> 00:08:12.967 later on on a panel We had a couple of risk managers one from Total Energy We 00:08:12.967 --> 00:08:14.857 also had one from Next Air Energy, right? 00:08:14.897 --> 00:08:15.707 And we also had one from Air 00:08:15.722 --> 00:08:16.892 VictoriaM: Promise. 00:08:16.917 --> 00:08:16.918 Mike C.: 00:08:16.917 --> 00:08:17.437 So you had this 00:08:17.437 --> 00:08:18.267 great mix of people. 00:08:18.367 --> 00:08:19.107 But I was 00:08:19.107 --> 00:08:21.637 listening to the Next Air Energy comments and one of the things that 00:08:21.683 --> 00:08:22.785 VictoriaM: things that, uh, that 00:08:22.797 --> 00:08:22.798 Mike C.: 00:08:22.797 --> 00:08:26.167 That they said was you know We're in this business and I know it may be tough 00:08:26.167 --> 00:08:27.517 over here, but we're really doing well. 00:08:27.527 --> 00:08:29.087 And I was like, of course you are. 00:08:29.527 --> 00:08:30.467 Energy demand is 00:08:30.472 --> 00:08:30.742 VictoriaM: high. 00:08:31.277 --> 00:08:31.278 Mike C.: 00:08:31.277 --> 00:08:31.507 And 00:08:31.507 --> 00:08:32.347 you're good at what you do. 00:08:32.357 --> 00:08:33.477 So next year is great at what they do. 00:08:33.477 --> 00:08:34.567 And yeah, so they're doing great. 00:08:34.817 --> 00:08:35.847 That was not the issue. 00:08:36.717 --> 00:08:39.607 It made me think of Huntsman, 00:08:40.347 --> 00:08:41.207 Not as 00:08:41.437 --> 00:08:42.727 an energy company. 00:08:43.357 --> 00:08:43.497 No, 00:08:43.497 --> 00:08:43.867 no, no. 00:08:43.937 --> 00:08:45.557 They're a consumer of energy. 00:08:45.687 --> 00:08:46.617 They're the, they're the. 00:08:47.042 --> 00:08:49.372 They're the, not, not, I mean, obviously Huntsman's a client 00:08:49.372 --> 00:08:50.182 of Marsh's but it's not, 00:08:50.942 --> 00:08:51.262 they're 00:08:51.262 --> 00:08:51.752 the client. 00:08:51.812 --> 00:08:52.152 They're 00:08:52.152 --> 00:08:52.752 the customer. 00:08:53.062 --> 00:08:53.222 The 00:08:53.252 --> 00:08:56.022 customer is telling the energy industry, 00:08:56.562 --> 00:08:57.022 These 00:08:57.022 --> 00:08:58.712 are the realities of the world I live in. 00:08:59.512 --> 00:09:00.302 It's wonderful 00:09:00.302 --> 00:09:00.432 that 00:09:00.432 --> 00:09:01.742 you guys want to do all this stuff. 00:09:02.217 --> 00:09:02.547 And you 00:09:02.547 --> 00:09:05.217 could feel it in the room that Mr. 00:09:05.217 --> 00:09:08.457 Huntsman was like, I am the customer, I am telling 00:09:08.457 --> 00:09:09.287 you, this 00:09:09.347 --> 00:09:09.687 is 00:09:09.687 --> 00:09:09.967 my 00:09:09.967 --> 00:09:10.597 reality. 00:09:10.621 --> 00:09:14.467 VictoriaM: Well, and I think, as a global business leader, um, of 00:09:14.467 --> 00:09:17.137 which, Peter Huntsman is obviously leading a global business. 00:09:17.157 --> 00:09:19.217 There's a lot of global businesses across chemicals. 00:09:19.217 --> 00:09:21.757 And one of the real challenges, and that came up yesterday, 00:09:21.767 --> 00:09:24.267 is, um, is European policy. 00:09:24.277 --> 00:09:24.307 Yes. 00:09:24.987 --> 00:09:32.852 European, uh manufacturing and energy policy, which is basically encouraging 00:09:32.852 --> 00:09:34.552 companies to shut, stop manufacturing. 00:09:34.792 --> 00:09:37.002 And it's, and it's actually, it's a little bit of this not in 00:09:37.047 --> 00:09:37.048 Mike C.: 00:09:37.047 --> 00:09:38.047 my backyard 00:09:38.092 --> 00:09:39.342 VictoriaM: because the 00:09:39.347 --> 00:09:39.348 Mike C.: 00:09:39.347 --> 00:09:39.807 other piece is, 00:09:41.142 --> 00:09:44.052 VictoriaM: and, and I heard this before, I heard this from Peter's 00:09:44.062 --> 00:09:45.762 talk, which is around the, um, 00:09:45.987 --> 00:09:45.988 Mike C.: 00:09:45.987 --> 00:09:46.237 China 00:09:47.307 --> 00:09:47.957 continues 00:09:47.962 --> 00:09:50.937 VictoriaM: to build coal fired Electricity. 00:09:50.967 --> 00:09:53.627 It is the most efficient way for them to get what they want, 00:09:53.632 --> 00:09:53.633 Mike C.: 00:09:53.632 --> 00:09:56.412 Well, and he did, he did sneak in to, you know, Germany, they, they 00:09:56.412 --> 00:09:58.422 turned off the nuclear plants and they 00:09:58.422 --> 00:10:00.282 started building renewables and they too are 00:10:00.282 --> 00:10:01.032 burning more coal 00:10:01.062 --> 00:10:02.032 today than they were before. 00:10:02.032 --> 00:10:02.402 So it's 00:10:02.402 --> 00:10:03.352 not just China. 00:10:03.912 --> 00:10:05.702 It's, it's the unintended outcome 00:10:06.302 --> 00:10:06.812 of policy. 00:10:06.812 --> 00:10:10.772 Yeah. 00:10:10.772 --> 00:10:10.942 My 00:10:10.942 --> 00:10:12.942 VictoriaM: father worked for Exelon, 00:10:13.132 --> 00:10:16.862 a predecessor ComEd in, uh, in Illinois, right? 00:10:16.872 --> 00:10:17.692 So that's where I grew up. 00:10:17.702 --> 00:10:19.362 My dad's a, a ComEd guy. 00:10:19.362 --> 00:10:23.472 I was a, you know, appreciative of, really appreciative of electricity 00:10:23.472 --> 00:10:25.882 growing up, um, and of nuclear power. 00:10:25.922 --> 00:10:28.232 And right, so, cause, cause they had nuclear power 00:10:28.232 --> 00:10:28.602 up there. 00:10:28.602 --> 00:10:28.952 I think, 00:10:29.317 --> 00:10:29.318 Mike C.: 00:10:29.317 --> 00:10:29.807 Illinois, 00:10:29.837 --> 00:10:30.297 Illinois 00:10:30.302 --> 00:10:31.162 VictoriaM: still operating, 00:10:31.287 --> 00:10:31.288 Mike C.: 00:10:31.287 --> 00:10:32.107 it is, It is. 00:10:32.277 --> 00:10:32.567 VictoriaM: Great. 00:10:32.837 --> 00:10:36.017 Uh, there was a, you know, so fully appreciative of that. 00:10:36.017 --> 00:10:39.207 And I think actually when you look at nuclear power today and what's 00:10:39.207 --> 00:10:43.767 available, it's super efficient when we're trying to achieve the goals 00:10:43.767 --> 00:10:46.367 that we're trying to achieve, we should be encouraging more nuclear. 00:10:46.717 --> 00:10:48.832 Um, Rather than discouraging it. 00:10:48.872 --> 00:10:49.252 Um, 00:10:49.372 --> 00:10:49.692 but, 00:10:50.292 --> 00:10:54.162 but I think it is, the transition is a transition, right? 00:10:54.162 --> 00:11:00.242 Because when you talk about, he talked about the amount of energy that's 00:11:00.242 --> 00:11:02.712 still consumed from wood, right? 00:11:02.712 --> 00:11:06.832 So if people are using wood to heat and to cook, well, moving 00:11:06.832 --> 00:11:08.422 from wood to coal is efficient. 00:11:08.872 --> 00:11:12.362 Moving from coal to gas is an efficiency gain. 00:11:12.862 --> 00:11:17.932 Moving from gas to, let's just say, hydroelectric is an efficiency gain, 00:11:17.942 --> 00:11:21.382 or at least a, uh, carbon gain, right? 00:11:21.382 --> 00:11:23.232 So I think it's 00:11:23.582 --> 00:11:26.112 all about transition and relativity. 00:11:26.242 --> 00:11:26.292 I 00:11:26.336 --> 00:11:26.337 Mike C.: 00:11:26.336 --> 00:11:27.077 a defunct 00:11:27.292 --> 00:11:27.482 VictoriaM: whaling 00:11:27.482 --> 00:11:27.512 town. 00:11:27.977 --> 00:11:27.978 Mike C.: 00:11:27.977 --> 00:11:28.817 You know, we used to 00:11:28.832 --> 00:11:29.062 VictoriaM: burn 00:11:29.062 --> 00:11:29.732 that for a living. 00:11:29.837 --> 00:11:29.838 Mike C.: 00:11:29.837 --> 00:11:30.617 know, whale oil, right? 00:11:30.617 --> 00:11:31.217 Like it's a, 00:11:31.312 --> 00:11:32.112 VictoriaM: blubber, yeah, was a 00:11:32.657 --> 00:11:32.658 Mike C.: 00:11:32.657 --> 00:11:32.927 yep. 00:11:33.237 --> 00:11:34.337 Oh no, it was huge, yeah. 00:11:34.417 --> 00:11:37.247 Um, I, I think the um, You know, it's fast. 00:11:37.257 --> 00:11:38.187 It is a transition. 00:11:38.187 --> 00:11:40.727 It's also one that doesn't play out over like, you know, one 00:11:40.847 --> 00:11:41.417 VictoriaM: administration 00:11:41.457 --> 00:11:41.727 cycle, 00:11:41.917 --> 00:11:42.607 No, 00:11:42.617 --> 00:11:42.618 Mike C.: 00:11:42.617 --> 00:11:43.717 definitely doesn't play out. 00:11:43.747 --> 00:11:43.987 Yeah, 00:11:43.997 --> 00:11:47.157 I mean, exactly as you said, we're still burning wood like we did 00:11:47.157 --> 00:11:47.697 a thousand years 00:11:47.697 --> 00:11:48.397 ago, right? 00:11:48.397 --> 00:11:49.587 And two thousand years ago, whatever. 00:11:49.887 --> 00:11:52.287 Um, so there, it's not like there's an end state. 00:11:52.597 --> 00:11:56.667 Um, I do think that the thing that is worth talking about though is, 00:11:56.667 --> 00:11:59.957 and this, I need to touch on this too, is, you know, if you just look 00:11:59.957 --> 00:12:03.467 at, And we make, make this as simple as possible supply and demand. 00:12:04.707 --> 00:12:05.407 VictoriaM: reality 00:12:05.507 --> 00:12:05.508 Mike C.: 00:12:05.507 --> 00:12:10.497 is we're putting constraints on supply and we are driving demand up exponentially 00:12:10.617 --> 00:12:13.717 at a rate that we probably haven't seen, um, in multiple generations. 00:12:13.727 --> 00:12:17.727 So there isn't really even humans on the planet who have firsthand 00:12:17.727 --> 00:12:19.937 experience of seeing the kind of. 00:12:20.377 --> 00:12:24.747 Transition, transformation, energy additions that are going to be needed 00:12:25.017 --> 00:12:26.827 just to support where we're going. 00:12:26.887 --> 00:12:29.037 We've decided, we've let AI out of the box. 00:12:29.467 --> 00:12:30.907 It's going to consume an enormous amount of 00:12:31.195 --> 00:12:31.509 VictoriaM: energy. 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:34.477 It's a, it is a enormous consumer, right? 00:12:34.517 --> 00:12:35.267 Enormous. 00:12:35.607 --> 00:12:37.467 Consumer of energy and of water. 00:12:37.487 --> 00:12:37.488 Mike C.: 00:12:37.487 --> 00:12:37.897 Right. 00:12:38.067 --> 00:12:41.297 And his comments around, uh, you know, he used the, he used the, 00:12:41.307 --> 00:12:44.982 the He talked a little bit about, you know, we once thought That 00:12:44.982 --> 00:12:46.302 we'd run out of food here, right? 00:12:46.302 --> 00:12:46.422 And 00:12:46.422 --> 00:12:47.512 then we made advance with there, right? 00:12:47.512 --> 00:12:49.902 Yeah, so okay So, you know, it's it's a similar 00:12:49.902 --> 00:12:50.762 thing I do think 00:12:50.762 --> 00:12:53.932 we will solve the problem of how do we some how do we supply this 00:12:53.972 --> 00:12:55.662 increasingly exponential demand? 00:12:56.152 --> 00:12:56.762 but 00:12:57.777 --> 00:12:58.377 I think his 00:12:58.377 --> 00:12:59.857 key message, the thing I took away 00:12:59.977 --> 00:13:00.057 VictoriaM: is, 00:13:00.687 --> 00:13:00.688 Mike C.: 00:13:00.687 --> 00:13:01.817 it's not as simple. 00:13:01.817 --> 00:13:04.077 We got to stop pretending that you can just build 00:13:04.077 --> 00:13:04.127 a 00:13:04.127 --> 00:13:04.307 bunch 00:13:04.307 --> 00:13:04.427 of 00:13:04.427 --> 00:13:04.877 stuff 00:13:05.157 --> 00:13:05.297 and 00:13:05.297 --> 00:13:06.637 it's all going to be fine. 00:13:06.697 --> 00:13:11.077 There are unintended consequences and it's a far more complex ecosystem when we 00:13:11.077 --> 00:13:16.987 talk about global energy infrastructure, energy security, um, then I think a lot 00:13:16.987 --> 00:13:20.227 of folks are prepared to acknowledge, but anyone who was in that room yesterday. 00:13:20.467 --> 00:13:21.807 VictoriaM: room yesterday, well, it was 00:13:21.807 --> 00:13:22.397 a wake up call. 00:13:22.927 --> 00:13:25.287 Well, and I would say it was a wake up call at the beginning of the day and a 00:13:25.287 --> 00:13:28.147 wake up call at the end of the day when we talked about, uh, cyber security. 00:13:28.297 --> 00:13:28.298 Mike C.: 00:13:28.297 --> 00:13:29.297 Yes, that was a good one 00:13:29.347 --> 00:13:30.257 VictoriaM: That was a good one as well. 00:13:30.567 --> 00:13:31.207 Um, so. 00:13:31.367 --> 00:13:35.667 But when we come back and think about the energy and the energy transition, what's 00:13:35.687 --> 00:13:38.177 your role and what's Marsh's role in this? 00:13:38.177 --> 00:13:42.517 How are you engaging players across that, that system? 00:13:42.530 --> 00:13:42.531 Mike C.: 00:13:42.530 --> 00:13:45.827 because it's the simplest answer I can give you, which 00:13:45.827 --> 00:13:47.827 is Marsh's role is the same 00:13:47.992 --> 00:13:48.303 VictoriaM: the 00:13:48.527 --> 00:13:48.528 Mike C.: 00:13:48.527 --> 00:13:49.717 as it ever was, right? 00:13:49.757 --> 00:13:53.757 Which is supporting our clients in being more successful in 00:13:53.757 --> 00:13:55.157 what they want to do, right? 00:13:56.032 --> 00:14:00.302 We just happened, like our job is to support them in the risk space, right? 00:14:00.302 --> 00:14:04.382 So we're global leaders in the risk and insurance space. 00:14:05.352 --> 00:14:09.252 If it falls in that ecosystem and we do our things right and we make Marsh 00:14:09.252 --> 00:14:12.932 work for a client, then ultimately our clients are more successful as a result. 00:14:12.952 --> 00:14:14.832 They get great advice, great counsel. 00:14:14.832 --> 00:14:16.052 They optimize cost of risk. 00:14:16.072 --> 00:14:16.892 They do lots of things. 00:14:16.902 --> 00:14:18.012 They make the insurance market. 00:14:18.012 --> 00:14:19.702 If they buy insurance, some of them don't even buy it. 00:14:19.992 --> 00:14:21.892 Some of our clients aren't actually insurance buyers, right? 00:14:22.232 --> 00:14:22.862 Um, but. 00:14:23.242 --> 00:14:25.592 insurance, risk, that's the ecosystem. 00:14:25.592 --> 00:14:27.772 So, you know, I look at the energy transition. 00:14:27.782 --> 00:14:32.572 All Marsh is here to do is help our clients thrive through it. 00:14:32.862 --> 00:14:35.722 You know, if it is indeed a start and a finish, 00:14:36.117 --> 00:14:36.387 VictoriaM: right? 00:14:36.692 --> 00:14:36.693 Mike C.: 00:14:36.692 --> 00:14:39.462 I imagine I want every single one of my Marsh clients to 00:14:39.472 --> 00:14:40.552 be there at the finish line. 00:14:41.192 --> 00:14:41.542 And 00:14:41.572 --> 00:14:45.322 frankly, to the extent they have competitors who are not Marsh clients, 00:14:45.782 --> 00:14:45.932 I'd 00:14:45.932 --> 00:14:46.272 rather they 00:14:46.272 --> 00:14:46.432 not 00:14:46.432 --> 00:14:46.822 be there. 00:14:46.972 --> 00:14:47.292 Right. 00:14:47.302 --> 00:14:49.292 And then I think, so I, you know, and I think we share 00:14:49.292 --> 00:14:49.562 that with 00:14:49.562 --> 00:14:49.942 our clients. 00:14:49.942 --> 00:14:50.072 Right. 00:14:50.072 --> 00:14:51.942 So we just want our clients to be successful. 00:14:52.232 --> 00:14:53.332 Um, and we want. 00:14:53.487 --> 00:14:55.587 Uh, to create value for them. 00:14:55.937 --> 00:15:00.287 Uh, it's less about selling them stuff and more about helping them create value. 00:15:00.347 --> 00:15:02.267 And I think this is a really challenging 00:15:02.267 --> 00:15:02.927 time fraught with 00:15:02.927 --> 00:15:03.347 risk. 00:15:03.737 --> 00:15:04.727 So this is a place 00:15:04.727 --> 00:15:07.967 where we can be really, really impactful for our clients, and that's what 00:15:07.967 --> 00:15:09.107 we wanna do during this transition. 00:15:09.107 --> 00:15:11.407 We just wanna be helpful and we wanna 00:15:11.417 --> 00:15:11.860 VictoriaM: help them thrive. 00:15:11.860 --> 00:15:12.007 Yeah. 00:15:12.007 --> 00:15:12.367 I love it. 00:15:12.967 --> 00:15:18.017 So, um, if you were advising a chemical executive on, you know, sitting here 00:15:18.017 --> 00:15:22.962 today or tomorrow when you go back to your day job, um, What's one thing they 00:15:22.962 --> 00:15:28.162 can be doing and should be doing or thinking about here in 2025 as it relates 00:15:28.242 --> 00:15:31.342 to energy, energy transition risk, etc. 00:15:31.647 --> 00:15:31.648 Mike C.: 00:15:31.647 --> 00:15:32.667 Yeah, I, I think, 00:15:32.727 --> 00:15:33.088 um, I 00:15:33.093 --> 00:15:33.382 mean it's a. 00:15:33.997 --> 00:15:34.917 One, I always 00:15:34.917 --> 00:15:35.267 say, 00:15:35.807 --> 00:15:36.137 it always 00:15:36.137 --> 00:15:36.507 depends 00:15:36.507 --> 00:15:36.847 on who we're 00:15:36.847 --> 00:15:38.267 talking to and what their issues are. 00:15:38.317 --> 00:15:40.737 Every single one of our clients presents different issues. 00:15:40.737 --> 00:15:44.437 But at a high level, you know, for the chemical industry, I would say 00:15:44.467 --> 00:15:46.767 probably one of the most important things that they could be doing, 00:15:46.837 --> 00:15:50.057 particularly executives, is exactly what Peter Huntsman did yesterday. 00:15:50.517 --> 00:15:51.047 We have to. 00:15:51.222 --> 00:15:52.282 to be communicating 00:15:52.292 --> 00:15:55.612 across multi, multi, in a multi dimensional fashion. 00:15:55.622 --> 00:15:59.002 It is not enough to stay in the chemical industry bubble and 00:15:59.002 --> 00:16:00.312 just talk about these things. 00:16:00.712 --> 00:16:04.972 What Huntsman did yesterday was tell a bunch of traditional energy, 00:16:05.102 --> 00:16:05.692 including 00:16:05.792 --> 00:16:06.242 companies 00:16:06.242 --> 00:16:06.412 that are 00:16:06.412 --> 00:16:07.132 making their living 00:16:07.132 --> 00:16:10.462 building solar and wind and creating problems ultimately for him, 00:16:11.062 --> 00:16:11.332 VictoriaM: right? 00:16:11.987 --> 00:16:11.988 Mike C.: 00:16:11.987 --> 00:16:13.957 He said what he said, and he got that word out. 00:16:13.957 --> 00:16:17.797 And I think the more, the more that executives, um, in what I'll say is 00:16:17.827 --> 00:16:20.857 energy adjacent industries, appreciate the complexity of the situation, 00:16:21.377 --> 00:16:21.567 the 00:16:21.577 --> 00:16:25.177 better informed we'll be when we tell policy makers what it is we're looking 00:16:25.177 --> 00:16:29.687 for, um, you know, a lot of what Marsh does is help build consensus. 00:16:30.402 --> 00:16:31.192 Um, so that we 00:16:31.192 --> 00:16:31.812 get effective 00:16:31.812 --> 00:16:34.262 policy making, I mean it's a huge thing, whether I think it's, you know, 00:16:34.262 --> 00:16:34.842 like, uh, 00:16:34.852 --> 00:16:35.782 the TRIA legislation 00:16:35.782 --> 00:16:36.362 that was passed 00:16:36.362 --> 00:16:37.042 after September 00:16:37.042 --> 00:16:37.412 11th, 00:16:37.762 --> 00:16:38.202 you know, it's a 00:16:38.202 --> 00:16:38.432 great 00:16:38.432 --> 00:16:40.262 example of where, you know, we help our 00:16:40.262 --> 00:16:41.562 clients shape 00:16:41.632 --> 00:16:42.401 VictoriaM: with policy, 00:16:42.481 --> 00:16:42.747 um, 00:16:42.785 --> 00:16:43.169 but, 00:16:43.169 --> 00:16:43.554 I 00:16:43.712 --> 00:16:43.713 Mike C.: 00:16:43.712 --> 00:16:44.982 I think that to me is the 00:16:44.982 --> 00:16:48.732 most important one, uh, some of the underwriters who dared to raise their 00:16:48.732 --> 00:16:52.122 hand and challenged him yesterday, uh, interestingly enough, one of 00:16:52.122 --> 00:16:55.062 them in particular was, you know, was a renewable energy underwriter, 00:16:55.543 --> 00:16:57.607 VictoriaM: Yeah Like 00:16:57.697 --> 00:16:58.087 we've got 00:16:58.087 --> 00:16:58.467 to pierce 00:16:58.467 --> 00:16:58.468 Mike C.: 00:16:58.467 --> 00:16:59.067 the veil. 00:16:59.407 --> 00:16:59.627 We've 00:16:59.627 --> 00:16:59.817 got 00:16:59.817 --> 00:16:59.927 to 00:16:59.927 --> 00:17:00.227 accept 00:17:00.227 --> 00:17:00.407 some 00:17:00.407 --> 00:17:01.227 hard truths 00:17:01.507 --> 00:17:05.237 We can be passionate about our role in the transition, but we've got to 00:17:05.247 --> 00:17:07.227 acknowledge the reality of the broader. 00:17:07.417 --> 00:17:08.737 And so I just love that 00:17:08.737 --> 00:17:10.477 we he pulled people out of their 00:17:10.477 --> 00:17:10.837 silos 00:17:10.837 --> 00:17:11.347 yesterday. 00:17:11.367 --> 00:17:12.337 And I think we've got to do that. 00:17:12.347 --> 00:17:13.697 And that's what I would say, you know, 00:17:13.697 --> 00:17:13.787 for 00:17:13.787 --> 00:17:14.687 executives in the chemical 00:17:14.969 --> 00:17:15.280 VictoriaM: space, 00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:15.902 They're the 00:17:15.902 --> 00:17:16.213 largest 00:17:16.213 --> 00:17:16.524 consumers 00:17:16.677 --> 00:17:16.678 Mike C.: 00:17:16.677 --> 00:17:17.137 of energy. 00:17:17.217 --> 00:17:17.907 They're out there 00:17:17.907 --> 00:17:18.357 using it. 00:17:18.367 --> 00:17:19.297 They got a stake in it. 00:17:19.637 --> 00:17:20.427 They need to be part of the 00:17:20.427 --> 00:17:22.197 conversation, um, 00:17:22.277 --> 00:17:22.697 around. 00:17:22.807 --> 00:17:24.337 around what we're using and how. 00:17:24.517 --> 00:17:25.137 Um, so 00:17:25.227 --> 00:17:25.648 VictoriaM: about. 00:17:25.648 --> 00:17:26.070 Yeah. 00:17:26.070 --> 00:17:26.913 Love it. 00:17:27.297 --> 00:17:27.298 Mike C.: 00:17:27.297 --> 00:17:28.357 thank you so much. 00:17:28.598 --> 00:17:29.441 VictoriaM: appreciate your 00:17:29.441 --> 00:17:29.863 time. 00:17:29.863 --> 00:17:30.705 It's been 00:17:30.705 --> 00:17:31.127 great. 00:17:32.127 --> 00:17:34.287 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:17:34.627 --> 00:17:39.087 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:17:39.357 --> 00:17:42.917 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:17:43.747 --> 00:17:46.637 For more insights, visit TheChemicalShow. 00:17:46.647 --> 00:17:49.167 com and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:17:49.817 --> 00:17:53.767 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:17:53.767 --> 00:17:55.717 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:17:56.127 --> 00:17:59.357 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:17:59.617 --> 00:18:01.407 shaping the future of the industry. 00:18:01.777 --> 00:18:02.487 We'll see you soon.