WEBVTT 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.180 Matt Abrahams: Your career is more like a climbing wall than a ladder, 00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.440 and your ability to communicate that clearly is critical to your success. 00:00:10.860 --> 00:00:14.010 My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach Strategic communication at 00:00:14.010 --> 00:00:15.780 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:19.259 Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:19.710 --> 00:00:21.810 Today I look forward to speaking with Aneesh Raman. 00:00:22.169 --> 00:00:25.350 Aneesh currently serves as the Chief Economic Opportunity Officer 00:00:25.350 --> 00:00:28.800 at LinkedIn, where he leads global initiatives to navigate the future 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:30.960 of work and expand economic mobility. 00:00:31.380 --> 00:00:34.410 Before this, Aneesh was an award-winning CNN International War 00:00:34.410 --> 00:00:37.665 correspondent and a presidential speech writer for Barack Obama. 00:00:38.290 --> 00:00:43.240 His latest book, written with LinkedIn CEO Ryan Lansky, is Open to Work: 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:45.730 How to Get Ahead in the Age of AI. 00:00:46.120 --> 00:00:46.990 Well, welcome Aneesh. 00:00:47.290 --> 00:00:50.110 I have to share with you, you have the most diverse background 00:00:50.110 --> 00:00:52.840 of any guest we've ever had, and I wanna explore that in a moment. 00:00:53.080 --> 00:00:54.490 But I'm really excited to learn from you today. 00:00:54.490 --> 00:00:55.180 Thanks for being here. 00:00:55.270 --> 00:00:57.820 Aneesh Raman: Well, I'm so excited to be here and I'm grateful for the 00:00:57.820 --> 00:01:01.270 work you do to help everyone be able to tell their story and to impact the 00:01:01.270 --> 00:01:02.920 world in new ways with their story. 00:01:03.070 --> 00:01:03.610 Matt Abrahams: Well, thank you. 00:01:03.610 --> 00:01:04.330 Shall we get started? 00:01:04.629 --> 00:01:05.410 Aneesh Raman: Yeah, let's do it. 00:01:05.670 --> 00:01:07.890 Matt Abrahams: So your career path is fascinating. 00:01:07.890 --> 00:01:10.800 You've been a war correspondent, a presidential speech writer, a 00:01:10.800 --> 00:01:15.600 corporate executive among many roles, communication looms large in all of them. 00:01:15.630 --> 00:01:18.839 I'd love for you to share just some lessons learned, best practices 00:01:18.839 --> 00:01:20.820 you bring to your communication. 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.520 Aneesh Raman: You know, it's funny as you phrase it, my mind is immediately 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:27.090 recalling for a long period of time I ran away from communications 00:01:27.149 --> 00:01:30.990 as a term that I wanted to be defined by, wanted a job around. 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:32.940 I thought it was limiting, confining. 00:01:33.149 --> 00:01:36.539 As you'd say, my career is interesting, but makes no sense by job title. 00:01:36.539 --> 00:01:38.130 It's not a one plus one equals two. 00:01:38.490 --> 00:01:41.414 And a lot of it was me starting as a reporter and then leaving 00:01:41.414 --> 00:01:44.145 reporting because I wanted to do more than report the story. 00:01:44.145 --> 00:01:47.445 I wanted to shape action around it, so I go into government, and then it was 00:01:47.445 --> 00:01:49.035 more than just writing and speaking. 00:01:49.035 --> 00:01:52.095 How do we get action going into growth and policy campaigns? 00:01:52.365 --> 00:01:55.305 When I joined LinkedIn a couple months in, someone came up to me and said, 00:01:55.305 --> 00:01:56.685 you're a really good storyteller. 00:01:56.950 --> 00:02:00.399 And that was this like really important moment because at first, again, this, 00:02:00.429 --> 00:02:04.300 I had this reflexiveness against being like pigeonholed and storytelling 00:02:04.300 --> 00:02:06.250 was like campfire, children's book. 00:02:06.429 --> 00:02:08.949 But I started thinking about it and I said, yeah, that is actually 00:02:08.949 --> 00:02:12.549 something that I really enjoy doing in service of a bunch of other goals. 00:02:12.549 --> 00:02:17.140 And I started researching storytelling and falling in love with it as a thing 00:02:17.140 --> 00:02:20.350 that people can do and get better at and really change the world around. 00:02:20.350 --> 00:02:24.010 I mean, Sapiens, that book talks about storytelling is as important to our 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:26.050 growth and progress as a species as tools. 00:02:26.260 --> 00:02:28.930 As I thought about it more, and to your question, sort of what has 00:02:28.930 --> 00:02:32.110 carried me through, it's really been explanatory storytelling, is like the 00:02:32.110 --> 00:02:36.460 best I can define the longest serving skillset that I have had and honed. 00:02:36.580 --> 00:02:39.370 And to me the key things about that, first of all, you just have to be 00:02:39.430 --> 00:02:43.600 endlessly curious, and if you aren't, put yourself in a space where you are. 00:02:43.750 --> 00:02:47.080 Shift into a sphere where the work itself is feeding it. 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:49.920 Find a way to find ways into that topic. 00:02:50.150 --> 00:02:52.095 But I'm just like endlessly curious. 00:02:52.185 --> 00:02:55.335 And in that curiosity, I am compulsively trying to connect dots. 00:02:55.365 --> 00:02:58.785 'Cause for my own sake, I'm trying to make it simple so I understand it. 00:02:59.115 --> 00:03:03.015 And that has just developed into a communication style that is really maybe 00:03:03.015 --> 00:03:07.035 not as descriptive as others, maybe not as gripping as a story to others, 00:03:07.155 --> 00:03:11.445 but it's really the intent is to help you understand something better and 00:03:11.445 --> 00:03:14.415 more and more in a way that gives you a better sense of self and a better 00:03:14.415 --> 00:03:16.035 sense of belief about what's possible. 00:03:16.330 --> 00:03:17.770 Matt Abrahams: It's interesting how you answered the question. 00:03:17.770 --> 00:03:21.460 You talked about yourself internally, the the curiosity is the engine for the 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:25.240 storytelling, and then the connection of ideas is really important, and 00:03:25.450 --> 00:03:28.510 what I have enjoyed in getting to know your work through your writing, and 00:03:28.510 --> 00:03:30.160 through the other ways you communicate. 00:03:30.490 --> 00:03:32.740 I would be remiss if I didn't take this opportunity. 00:03:32.950 --> 00:03:36.670 You will soon find out at the end of our show, I'm gonna ask you three questions. 00:03:36.670 --> 00:03:39.520 One of the questions is, who's a communicator you admire most? 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:43.079 At the top of that list is always Barack Obama. 00:03:43.230 --> 00:03:46.320 Actually, he's beaten by Michelle Obama, more people refer to her 00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:49.799 than him, but you had the job of helping write speeches for him. 00:03:50.130 --> 00:03:54.299 I'm just curious if you can share some insight that others can benefit from 00:03:54.299 --> 00:03:58.290 about his approach to communication, and perhaps your approach in helping 00:03:58.290 --> 00:04:01.109 enable that at communication, that we could all benefit from. 00:04:01.590 --> 00:04:05.609 Aneesh Raman: The first thing I say is to be one of his speech writers is an 00:04:05.609 --> 00:04:08.730 extremely humbling act because you know he's always gonna be better than you. 00:04:09.345 --> 00:04:12.554 That if he had the time and space to write the speech you were working on 00:04:12.614 --> 00:04:16.154 on his own, it would be so much better than anything you were gonna offer up. 00:04:16.575 --> 00:04:19.094 So it was a unique experience to not just be a speechwriter, 00:04:19.094 --> 00:04:20.445 but be a speechwriter for him. 00:04:20.774 --> 00:04:22.905 I think with him it was always audience first. 00:04:22.905 --> 00:04:24.435 That was something that was very clear. 00:04:24.765 --> 00:04:25.784 Who's in front of him? 00:04:26.145 --> 00:04:28.725 What's the story of the folks who are in that audience? 00:04:28.875 --> 00:04:31.665 We would always end with a story of someone in the audience. 00:04:31.755 --> 00:04:35.445 Most of what I take from him is actually as a spouse and a father. 00:04:35.745 --> 00:04:39.975 He has become this role model for me of like feminist husband, feminist dad. 00:04:40.065 --> 00:04:40.785 He has two girls. 00:04:40.785 --> 00:04:41.505 I have two girls. 00:04:41.850 --> 00:04:44.550 So when I think about him, like most of what I think about is how I'm 00:04:44.550 --> 00:04:45.870 trying to model myself as a man. 00:04:46.140 --> 00:04:50.370 But the memory I go back to a lot with him is I was writing a speech and it was after 00:04:50.370 --> 00:04:54.840 a second inaugural, and we were gonna talk about how in that second inaugural, he 00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:59.040 has put his hand on the Bibles of Martin Luther King Jr. and Abraham Lincoln and I 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.390 had written some section there about when they turned to faith, what those moments 00:05:03.390 --> 00:05:05.130 must have felt like, must have been like. 00:05:05.370 --> 00:05:08.100 Lincoln in the midst of the Civil War, walking through 00:05:08.100 --> 00:05:10.080 just fields of fallen soldiers. 00:05:10.470 --> 00:05:13.830 King in the depths of bombings and other things that the civil 00:05:13.830 --> 00:05:14.940 rights movement had provoked. 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.790 And so I'd written something and it was the only time I ever 00:05:17.790 --> 00:05:19.320 got a call from him at my desk. 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.020 'Cause other speech writers who were more in the mix would be, you 00:05:22.020 --> 00:05:22.950 know, interacting with him more. 00:05:22.950 --> 00:05:24.510 I came late into the speech writing group. 00:05:24.840 --> 00:05:27.810 And I remember picking up and thinking, oh, it was just one of his aides 00:05:27.810 --> 00:05:30.480 who was saying, we've got edits or something, some casually picking it 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.300 up, and suddenly he's on the other end. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:36.615 And his call was about that part of the speech and really just 00:05:36.675 --> 00:05:40.995 pushing me to recognize like the human experience of that. 00:05:40.995 --> 00:05:42.945 And so he just stayed human. 00:05:43.005 --> 00:05:45.075 I think that's probably the summary statement. 00:05:45.165 --> 00:05:49.455 And he was able to speak human, think human, be human in ways 00:05:49.455 --> 00:05:52.935 that most people who get to a job like that no longer retain. 00:05:53.325 --> 00:05:56.385 And he fought to keep it throughout and I think keeps it to this day. 00:05:56.385 --> 00:05:57.135 And Michelle too. 00:05:57.135 --> 00:05:59.085 And so that to me is like a role model too. 00:05:59.085 --> 00:06:01.365 It goes to the authenticity of communication. 00:06:01.935 --> 00:06:03.974 Matt Abrahams: It sounds to me like part of what was important 00:06:03.974 --> 00:06:07.365 in that job for you and for him was understanding your audience. 00:06:07.625 --> 00:06:12.075 Bringing in managing the emotion and really respecting the impact that you can 00:06:12.075 --> 00:06:14.385 have and that the words have on people. 00:06:14.385 --> 00:06:17.594 And, and I think all of us can think about how do we bring our authentic 00:06:17.594 --> 00:06:19.995 self, how do we think about our audience, and how do we think about 00:06:19.995 --> 00:06:21.405 emotion and how we can connect? 00:06:21.405 --> 00:06:22.134 I appreciate that. 00:06:22.464 --> 00:06:23.410 I wanna turn to your book. 00:06:23.440 --> 00:06:28.060 In your book, you argue that careers are no longer predictable ladders, 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:30.100 but they're dynamic climbing walls. 00:06:30.100 --> 00:06:32.290 As somebody who likes to climb, I love this analogy. 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.390 Can you share what you mean by this? 00:06:34.450 --> 00:06:38.770 And what advice do you give to people who then need to explain or 00:06:38.770 --> 00:06:41.260 pitch their career climbing wall? 00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:42.480 Aneesh Raman: There'll be a theme. 00:06:42.510 --> 00:06:45.390 It starts with self is the most important thing I would tell everyone. 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:47.940 We are living through what I think is the greatest disruption 00:06:47.940 --> 00:06:49.080 of work in human history. 00:06:49.320 --> 00:06:53.130 What work is gonna look like in 5, definitely 10 years, is gonna look very 00:06:53.130 --> 00:06:57.540 different, if not nothing like what work has looked like for the past 300 years. 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:01.290 As we've been in the industrial age work had a certain predictability, 00:07:01.290 --> 00:07:03.030 clarity, stability to it. 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:05.370 The industrial age was entirely about efficiency. 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:08.040 It was the speed and scale of production of goods and services. 00:07:08.490 --> 00:07:12.630 So since the steam engine to now, all of us humans at work have just been 00:07:12.630 --> 00:07:16.860 about efficiency, supporting these machines in doing more, better, faster. 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:20.160 And that doesn't matter whether you are on the factory floor, on an assembly 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.230 line, or in a cubicle on your laptop. 00:07:22.230 --> 00:07:24.240 It was more, better, faster, more, better, faster. 00:07:24.690 --> 00:07:26.790 We now have this technology that's gonna do more, better, 00:07:26.790 --> 00:07:28.005 faster, more, better, faster. 00:07:28.260 --> 00:07:29.700 It will out efficiency us. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.270 And at first, I think a lot of people are really freaked out about that. 00:07:33.599 --> 00:07:36.390 But when you recognize that humans aren't meant to be machine-like, 00:07:36.390 --> 00:07:40.125 and that machines will eventually out machine us, our brain existed 00:07:40.125 --> 00:07:41.715 far longer than the industrial age. 00:07:41.715 --> 00:07:44.805 I mean, the brain that we have is about 40,000 years old, at least, 00:07:44.805 --> 00:07:48.225 in terms of not just shape and size, which is like 300,000 years old, 00:07:48.405 --> 00:07:49.755 but ability of complex thought. 00:07:49.755 --> 00:07:52.875 We created nation states, we created the monetary order, the 00:07:52.875 --> 00:07:55.395 beginnings of all these things before the steam engine showed up. 00:07:55.635 --> 00:07:56.625 So we're gonna go back to that. 00:07:56.625 --> 00:08:00.195 It's gonna be a more entrepreneurial era where we're gonna rely on our unique 00:08:00.195 --> 00:08:02.265 ability to imagine, to invent, to create. 00:08:02.595 --> 00:08:03.885 So what does that mean for your career? 00:08:03.885 --> 00:08:07.950 Well, in that efficiency age, or predictability reign, you had a 00:08:07.950 --> 00:08:10.020 career ladder and you knew what to do. 00:08:10.140 --> 00:08:13.140 If you could get on one with the right degree or get into the right 00:08:13.140 --> 00:08:16.110 job at the right company, you're just climbing to the next rung. 00:08:16.169 --> 00:08:19.020 You're trying to get your boss's job, your boss's boss's job. 00:08:19.530 --> 00:08:23.609 And I know that sort of clarity has been comforting for people, even as it's been 00:08:24.090 --> 00:08:27.870 limiting for so many people who didn't have the right pedigree signals of the 00:08:27.870 --> 00:08:31.170 right degree or the right zip code they grew up on to actually get on that ladder. 00:08:31.530 --> 00:08:35.280 But that ladder is done because organizations now cannot build around 00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:37.650 stability, predictability, efficiency. 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.030 Companies are gonna have to build around innovation, agility, dynamism. 00:08:41.400 --> 00:08:44.845 And so we use the wall as something you're climbing to signal that. 00:08:45.115 --> 00:08:48.145 The chapter opens with the story of Mo Beck, who's a one-handed climber. 00:08:48.475 --> 00:08:51.445 And Mo talks about how she climbs routes. 00:08:51.445 --> 00:08:55.165 And if you're a climber like you, you know, you don't just go up, you sometimes 00:08:55.165 --> 00:08:57.835 go down, you go sideways, all to go up. 00:08:58.045 --> 00:09:00.145 But there's multiple ways that you can get there. 00:09:00.205 --> 00:09:02.755 And if you're Mo Beck and you only have one hand, there are a 00:09:02.755 --> 00:09:03.985 bunch of ways only you can go. 00:09:04.469 --> 00:09:06.870 There's some ways you can't go, but there are ways only you can go. 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:10.469 And we talk about how she used that reality to her advantage to climb 00:09:10.469 --> 00:09:11.880 climbs that only she could climb. 00:09:12.060 --> 00:09:15.449 So we're all gonna have to do that now, and that can be really stressful at 00:09:15.449 --> 00:09:18.870 first, if you feel like the role you had to build your career was to check the 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:22.829 tickets and get on the ladder to now you get to decide, but you get to decide. 00:09:23.069 --> 00:09:26.069 And so we talk in the book about, and we have different like frameworks for 00:09:26.069 --> 00:09:28.770 people to use, but you know, it starts at the core with why do you work? 00:09:28.890 --> 00:09:31.089 And for most of us, that's a paycheck to earn a living. 00:09:31.469 --> 00:09:34.505 But as you do that or beyond that, is it about the impact you want? 00:09:34.505 --> 00:09:37.025 Is it about the type of organization you want to build? 00:09:37.265 --> 00:09:38.224 And then what do you do? 00:09:38.285 --> 00:09:41.074 And I think Reese Witherspoon had a great line recently where she said, 00:09:41.074 --> 00:09:42.724 chase your talent, not your dreams. 00:09:43.145 --> 00:09:47.285 There's something you do instinctively, well, something you love to do that you 00:09:47.285 --> 00:09:48.785 just want to keep getting better at it. 00:09:48.785 --> 00:09:49.895 You're curious about it. 00:09:49.895 --> 00:09:52.115 You don't have to push yourself to want to push yourself. 00:09:52.605 --> 00:09:55.665 If anything in that realm is something that the world wants and will pay you 00:09:55.665 --> 00:09:59.115 for and that organizations need and will promote you for, that's your core. 00:09:59.145 --> 00:10:00.255 That's your, what do I do? 00:10:00.255 --> 00:10:00.975 So why do I work? 00:10:00.975 --> 00:10:01.365 What do I do? 00:10:01.365 --> 00:10:02.415 And then where do I want to be? 00:10:02.415 --> 00:10:03.855 And that's gonna change constantly. 00:10:03.855 --> 00:10:06.675 But am I an environment that I'm learning in the right way? 00:10:06.675 --> 00:10:10.065 Am I an environment where I'm delivering at the impact level I want? 00:10:10.395 --> 00:10:14.355 It's really meant to give you this sense of optionality, which is gonna 00:10:14.355 --> 00:10:17.925 be fear inducing for a lot of people 'cause they won't know where to start. 00:10:17.925 --> 00:10:20.085 And so, I don't know, maybe even in your own experience, those 00:10:20.085 --> 00:10:23.790 first climbs, when you could go anywhere, how you think about it. 00:10:23.790 --> 00:10:26.880 And I think ultimately for all of us, and maybe you can validate this, 00:10:27.060 --> 00:10:28.199 just think about the next step. 00:10:28.859 --> 00:10:29.939 Matt Abrahams: So many rich things in there. 00:10:29.939 --> 00:10:32.069 I want to explore and we will in a few moments. 00:10:32.130 --> 00:10:36.930 The figuring out why we work and what makes us unique is really important. 00:10:36.930 --> 00:10:39.569 And that provides the beginning part of the story that we have 00:10:39.569 --> 00:10:41.189 to tell so people can understand. 00:10:41.430 --> 00:10:45.060 The freedom can be, as you said, daunting, but it can also be liberating as well. 00:10:45.615 --> 00:10:50.355 You argue that in this new age of work and the AI age, that soft skills, 00:10:50.355 --> 00:10:51.645 I'm not a big fan of that term. 00:10:51.645 --> 00:10:54.194 But, but things like curiosity, creativity, and communication are 00:10:54.194 --> 00:10:56.055 actually the hardest and most valuable. 00:10:56.520 --> 00:10:58.680 I agree, absolutely, 100%. 00:10:59.010 --> 00:11:03.120 I'd love to hear your perspective on how can people develop these skills and most 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.200 importantly, how can they demonstrate and communicate them to help those who 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.300 might employ them see that as valuable? 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:11.310 Aneesh Raman: One of the interesting things about the book, 'cause 00:11:11.310 --> 00:11:13.810 it's not a how to AI book, it's a how to human with AI. 00:11:14.150 --> 00:11:19.385 And so much of the conversation is almost entirely about AI alone, its capabilities, 00:11:19.685 --> 00:11:24.245 its future capabilities, and it concedes a lot of the conversation this, I think, 00:11:24.245 --> 00:11:28.444 very diminished view of what humans can do based on, again, this efficiency focus 00:11:28.444 --> 00:11:29.685 of the industrial age and what we've done. 00:11:30.435 --> 00:11:33.435 So as we were writing this book, one of the first things we had to do is 00:11:33.435 --> 00:11:38.355 articulate what makes us us, as humans, what is unique human capability. 00:11:38.595 --> 00:11:43.515 And it actually isn't a mature conversation in humanity because in 00:11:43.515 --> 00:11:47.745 the industrial age, we focus entirely on IQ, technical analytic skills. 00:11:47.745 --> 00:11:50.325 We built teaching, training, credentialing, assessing 00:11:50.355 --> 00:11:51.375 everything around that. 00:11:51.915 --> 00:11:54.375 And so we talked to neuroscientists, we talked to organizational 00:11:54.375 --> 00:11:56.095 psychologists, behavioral economists. 00:11:56.555 --> 00:12:00.405 And so we came up with what we call the five Cs, and it's our offer of 00:12:00.405 --> 00:12:04.275 what sits at the intersection of IQ and EQ, of consciousness and conscience. 00:12:04.515 --> 00:12:08.295 Courage, curiosity, creativity, compassion and communication. 00:12:08.655 --> 00:12:11.595 That gave us a kind of foundation of what makes us us. 00:12:11.835 --> 00:12:15.225 And then you build from that with resilience, adaptability, 00:12:15.405 --> 00:12:17.565 ability to fail, handle hard well. 00:12:17.565 --> 00:12:19.425 And you get to this entrepreneurialism that we think 00:12:19.425 --> 00:12:20.745 is actually the relevance at work. 00:12:21.150 --> 00:12:25.290 But those five C's and we go into each in the book, first of all, if you're a human, 00:12:25.560 --> 00:12:28.000 you have innate ability on these five C's. 00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:30.750 It comes with your brain, and so you start. 00:12:31.125 --> 00:12:32.055 With that skill. 00:12:32.175 --> 00:12:36.224 Now, if you've been in a job or lived a life that led you to be less curious 00:12:36.224 --> 00:12:38.145 than you wish you were less creative. 00:12:38.145 --> 00:12:41.204 We think of creativity as a talent, not a skill that people can develop. 00:12:41.385 --> 00:12:43.875 Although there's a ton of neuroscience research now on that. 00:12:44.115 --> 00:12:46.935 Communication, some people are gifted in it, some people haven't. 00:12:46.935 --> 00:12:48.765 Storytelling is mystical and magical. 00:12:49.465 --> 00:12:52.915 They're all just skills, and so whatever you do have is skills, if they're 00:12:52.915 --> 00:12:57.025 technical skills, analytic skills, operational skills, it's the same thing. 00:12:57.175 --> 00:13:00.955 It's how do I identify what I wanna get better at and how do I push myself 00:13:00.985 --> 00:13:05.415 in small ways, but in daily ways to test it and try it and learn from it. 00:13:05.505 --> 00:13:09.435 I often tell folks who feel overwhelmed by the idea they could be a good storyteller, 00:13:09.645 --> 00:13:10.875 the attempt is the achievement. 00:13:11.085 --> 00:13:13.425 I mean, it's a stoicism line, but that's all you're going for. 00:13:13.425 --> 00:13:15.285 You're just going for that deliberate practice. 00:13:15.285 --> 00:13:18.255 So we talk about it in the book as you bring it into your day-to-day, we 00:13:18.255 --> 00:13:21.405 have a framework for how to break your job down into three buckets of tasks. 00:13:21.645 --> 00:13:24.915 And as you think about the tasks that are gonna require these kind of human 00:13:24.915 --> 00:13:27.390 skills, push yourself on some of them. 00:13:27.390 --> 00:13:31.050 Be courageous in a small way, but in a way that pushes yourself. 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:34.620 Communicate something bigger or bolder in a small way, but 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:35.580 a way that pushes yourself. 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:37.860 Post something on LinkedIn, see what happens. 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:41.550 But so much of it is the attempt is the achievement, but you start with 00:13:41.550 --> 00:13:43.290 the ability, 'cause you're human. 00:13:43.800 --> 00:13:47.175 And the best things we do as humans are with others, go find other 00:13:47.175 --> 00:13:48.525 people you want to get better with. 00:13:48.795 --> 00:13:52.215 When I was speech writing, one of the things I always did, especially in 00:13:52.215 --> 00:13:55.215 moments where I was most overwhelmed, is I called my wife and I just say like, 00:13:55.215 --> 00:13:56.895 Hey, I'm trying to explain this policy. 00:13:57.345 --> 00:14:00.675 So the great thing about being human is we're surrounded by other humans 00:14:00.675 --> 00:14:02.265 who can be a feedback loop for us. 00:14:02.265 --> 00:14:03.824 So make sure you're taking advantage of that. 00:14:04.290 --> 00:14:06.930 Matt Abrahams: The collaborative nature in all of this is important. 00:14:07.260 --> 00:14:09.600 I appreciate that we all have these abilities. 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.240 You said something there that hearkens back to some things we've 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.939 talked about, which is the notion of find what's right for you. 00:14:15.390 --> 00:14:18.540 So it's this introspection and you might not have that skill right 00:14:18.540 --> 00:14:21.240 now, but you know that's the passion and something you wanna work for. 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.110 So finding what's right is really about understanding yourself and 00:14:25.110 --> 00:14:28.020 seeing where you want to take that, and I appreciate that very much. 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:32.580 Break down for us the three buckets, and then articulate, once we find 00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:36.420 the things that you'll tell us is in bucket three, how do we then really 00:14:36.420 --> 00:14:40.020 lean into our bucket three skills? 00:14:40.725 --> 00:14:43.155 Aneesh Raman: One of the things we noticed early on, Ryan and I, is that 00:14:43.155 --> 00:14:47.324 the conversation about AI and work was becoming entirely about job titles. 00:14:47.595 --> 00:14:51.045 What's gonna happen to software engineers, as if all software engineers 00:14:51.375 --> 00:14:55.905 engineer in the same way, and where one goes all will go, or entry level work? 00:14:55.905 --> 00:14:59.055 What's gonna happen to this entire category of jobs as if they're 00:14:59.055 --> 00:15:02.165 all the same and they're all gonna stay or they're all gonna go. 00:15:02.694 --> 00:15:06.480 And our view was how do we start engaging with this change as it happens? 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.610 We have a data point that I think is a key signal. 00:15:08.880 --> 00:15:14.070 70% of the average skills in a job are gonna have changed by 2030, 7 0. 00:15:14.310 --> 00:15:17.220 So even if you're not changing jobs, your job is changing on 00:15:17.220 --> 00:15:18.690 you into an entirely new job. 00:15:19.170 --> 00:15:23.100 Now if you hear that and you're like, oh gosh, okay, I gotta just bear through 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:26.520 this, as if that change is coming to you as if AI has already figured out what 00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:29.700 it's gonna change about your job, or your boss has figured it out and is gonna 00:15:29.700 --> 00:15:33.210 come one day and say, here's the 70% that's different about your job, that's 00:15:33.210 --> 00:15:34.530 actually not how it's gonna play out. 00:15:34.530 --> 00:15:38.820 You're gonna decide how that job changes, by that 70%, in what 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:40.860 way, in what order, at what pace. 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:42.270 And so how do you do that? 00:15:42.270 --> 00:15:44.160 That's by seeing jobs as tasks. 00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:47.955 And the lived experience for me here is when I tell you that the three things I 00:15:47.955 --> 00:15:52.185 do best are explanatory storytelling to build coalitions around an expertise of 00:15:52.185 --> 00:15:56.595 economic opportunity, you would never get that from a description of my career by 00:15:56.595 --> 00:15:58.875 job title, like never in a million years. 00:15:59.265 --> 00:16:02.115 But if you look at the tasks of what I did in those jobs and how they built 00:16:02.115 --> 00:16:05.475 and reorganized and I built from them, you would get to that pretty easily. 00:16:05.475 --> 00:16:09.405 So take your job, it doesn't matter if you're a CEO, you just got hired, you're 00:16:09.405 --> 00:16:10.725 in marketing, you're in engineering. 00:16:11.175 --> 00:16:13.060 Put aside your title, put aside your goals. 00:16:13.430 --> 00:16:15.315 Every week you do about a dozen things. 00:16:15.615 --> 00:16:17.085 Call 'em tasks, list them down. 00:16:17.145 --> 00:16:17.805 What are they? 00:16:18.255 --> 00:16:19.335 I do a lot of coding. 00:16:19.335 --> 00:16:20.595 I talk to customers. 00:16:20.595 --> 00:16:21.915 I organize team meetings. 00:16:21.915 --> 00:16:23.115 Whatever it is, you list them out. 00:16:23.295 --> 00:16:24.585 And you're gonna put 'em in three buckets. 00:16:24.585 --> 00:16:27.495 The first bucket is, well, stuff that AI can kind of already do is 00:16:27.495 --> 00:16:31.275 quickly gonna be able to do coding, summarizing, quick analytics, quick 00:16:31.275 --> 00:16:33.105 research, that goes in bucket one. 00:16:33.435 --> 00:16:35.505 Bucket two is stuff you're doing with these tools. 00:16:35.895 --> 00:16:37.425 This is actually the most important bucket. 00:16:37.425 --> 00:16:41.325 This is where high performers are emerging from new corners in new ways. 00:16:41.625 --> 00:16:44.475 'Cause they're leveraging the tools to quickly close an experience gap. 00:16:44.475 --> 00:16:47.355 I don't speak sales, but I really wanna partner with them on that. 00:16:47.355 --> 00:16:48.615 Oh, this is how they talk about it. 00:16:48.615 --> 00:16:53.204 This is, or I have this idea, but when I visualize it, no one gets excited. 00:16:53.204 --> 00:16:56.745 Let me turn it into a video or turn it into this whole PowerPoint I never 00:16:56.745 --> 00:16:58.365 could have done, okay, closes that gap. 00:16:58.724 --> 00:17:03.344 So bucket two is how do I liberate myself from the efficiency machine-like 00:17:03.344 --> 00:17:06.915 tasks that I don't have to do and how do I do more of what I'm into 00:17:06.915 --> 00:17:08.085 and what I get excited about? 00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:10.335 And then bucket three is the stuff with other humans. 00:17:10.514 --> 00:17:13.544 I mean, there are a lot of conversations that you just see it end with 00:17:13.875 --> 00:17:15.524 humans running a bunch of agents. 00:17:15.800 --> 00:17:16.879 That isn't the end state. 00:17:16.909 --> 00:17:21.050 It's humans with a bunch of tools working with other humans with a bunch of tools, 00:17:21.050 --> 00:17:24.199 doing all sorts of cool new things that humans have never done before, 00:17:24.199 --> 00:17:27.230 across a broader set of areas where we can be entrepreneurial and innovate. 00:17:27.679 --> 00:17:29.000 That's partnering in new ways. 00:17:29.360 --> 00:17:31.550 That's thinking about ethics in new ways. 00:17:31.550 --> 00:17:34.550 That's thinking about community building or organizing in new ways, 00:17:35.030 --> 00:17:37.010 ideation and brainstorming in new ways. 00:17:37.370 --> 00:17:39.530 Matt Abrahams: I appreciate how you delineated the different buckets. 00:17:39.530 --> 00:17:42.260 So there's the things that AI can do that's bucket one, the things that we 00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:45.229 can do in partnership together, and then the things that are uniquely human. 00:17:45.689 --> 00:17:49.365 And as you look at your tasks and you itemize and figure out where they are, you 00:17:49.365 --> 00:17:53.895 see how you can move them towards bucket three, and then that helps pinpoint the 00:17:53.925 --> 00:17:56.075 work you need to do, and to lean into it. 00:17:57.135 --> 00:17:59.685 Before we end, I like to ask everybody three questions. 00:17:59.685 --> 00:18:03.705 One, I'm gonna create just for you and two that are similar across all the episodes. 00:18:04.145 --> 00:18:08.115 You write about the value in all of this of your peer network. 00:18:08.175 --> 00:18:10.095 And that's not surprising, you work at LinkedIn. 00:18:10.544 --> 00:18:13.845 Beyond LinkedIn as a tool for this, what are other ways that we can 00:18:13.845 --> 00:18:17.655 leverage our peer network to help us as we grow and redefine our careers? 00:18:18.629 --> 00:18:20.550 Aneesh Raman: I think for a lot of folks it starts with just 00:18:20.550 --> 00:18:22.199 building it and maintaining it. 00:18:22.379 --> 00:18:26.070 Again, if you're insatiably curious and you're curious about humans, 00:18:26.129 --> 00:18:29.429 which has been a through line for me, whether it was, what is it like to be a 00:18:29.429 --> 00:18:34.199 human in a war zone or a human that is living in an economy where they don't 00:18:34.199 --> 00:18:37.020 have a mobility, a lot of our Obama speeches are about the American dream. 00:18:37.260 --> 00:18:39.629 You're just constantly curious about what other people are up to, 00:18:39.629 --> 00:18:40.830 and you're connecting with people. 00:18:40.830 --> 00:18:45.765 You're keeping in touch with people, and so I think starting with who you know 00:18:45.765 --> 00:18:50.115 and who you like to go to is really key because a lot of times people think your 00:18:50.115 --> 00:18:53.625 network has to be really established people who are really successful and are 00:18:53.625 --> 00:18:57.885 gonna help you open doors and mentor you, and yes, that's like a key part of it. 00:18:57.885 --> 00:19:00.735 And in the industrial age, in the org chart, in the latter, that was 00:19:00.735 --> 00:19:02.055 probably the most important part. 00:19:02.445 --> 00:19:04.845 Also very limiting if you didn't have access to those folks. 00:19:04.845 --> 00:19:06.465 But if you did, that was the most important part. 00:19:06.825 --> 00:19:09.975 The reasons we think about what you're climbing as a wall is because in 00:19:09.975 --> 00:19:12.195 climbing, your peer group is a network. 00:19:12.254 --> 00:19:14.805 'Cause they have visibility into routes that, that you want to know, 00:19:14.805 --> 00:19:16.335 beta information I think it's called. 00:19:16.605 --> 00:19:18.135 Stuff that they've seen when they've gone. 00:19:18.135 --> 00:19:21.825 So it's not just who's done it and been really good at it, it's other people 00:19:21.825 --> 00:19:24.580 who are failing at doing it and why are they failing and what are they learning? 00:19:25.304 --> 00:19:27.645 It's people that you're giving advice to 'cause they're gonna give you 00:19:27.645 --> 00:19:29.264 advice too about how they're coming up. 00:19:29.264 --> 00:19:31.935 And you're going to have this sort of weird reverse mentorship, 00:19:32.084 --> 00:19:33.824 asymmetric relationship going. 00:19:33.824 --> 00:19:37.784 So if you think you have a limited network, start with pro 00:19:37.854 --> 00:19:41.024 you and then it's just as simple as human to human interaction. 00:19:41.024 --> 00:19:43.145 And this is where you can practice all those five C's. 00:19:43.304 --> 00:19:44.324 Talk to folks. 00:19:44.324 --> 00:19:45.375 Get on the phone. 00:19:45.584 --> 00:19:49.395 So much about our day-to-day right now is about texting over talking. 00:19:49.395 --> 00:19:54.330 It's about quick summary over long exploratory, winding, 00:19:54.330 --> 00:19:55.590 you know, brainstorms. 00:19:55.830 --> 00:19:59.250 Let me be the one to tell you, no, this stuff that life right now doesn't feel 00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:02.040 like it's valuing is gonna matter a ton. 00:20:02.040 --> 00:20:05.970 So go give yourself the time and space and permission to do that work. 00:20:06.510 --> 00:20:09.090 So the simple thing I'd say is, I mean, obviously LinkedIn's a great tool, 00:20:09.090 --> 00:20:13.590 but pick up the phone, go meet people, go for a walk, just go experience 00:20:13.830 --> 00:20:16.650 whatever the question is you're trying to figure out with another human. 00:20:17.610 --> 00:20:20.970 Matt Abrahams: Question number two, who is a communicator you admire and why? 00:20:21.555 --> 00:20:24.825 Aneesh Raman: Joan Didion is the person I am going to every once in a while 00:20:24.825 --> 00:20:26.385 because, there are a bunch of writers. 00:20:26.385 --> 00:20:29.415 But it's the writing where you're like, oh my God, that sentence 00:20:29.415 --> 00:20:34.845 is like 7 words, but it speaks volumes, like, how did she do that? 00:20:35.265 --> 00:20:37.545 And a lot of what I'm trying to do, even in the selling of a book, 00:20:37.545 --> 00:20:38.745 you have to simplify the book. 00:20:39.135 --> 00:20:42.265 So the book is about the past, present, and future of work for humans. 00:20:42.265 --> 00:20:46.380 There's an unlimited number of themes and topics and I've been 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.390 working on a list of just one-liners. 00:20:48.750 --> 00:20:51.690 Like everything we've just said about fear and all that's coming, 00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:54.690 AI to me is summarized by if you know one thing and one thing only, 00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:56.460 work is changing, not ending. 00:20:56.790 --> 00:21:00.960 Like that simplicity I find seductive, and still hard. 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.740 And so like Didion is an example of someone I go to just to be in awe 00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:07.050 of how she got there to push myself. 00:21:07.455 --> 00:21:09.945 Matt Abrahams: The ability to leverage language to communicate 00:21:09.945 --> 00:21:13.095 effectively is a true gift and skill, and one we can all work at. 00:21:13.605 --> 00:21:16.605 Final question, what are the first three ingredients that go into a 00:21:16.605 --> 00:21:18.645 successful communication recipe? 00:21:19.215 --> 00:21:21.795 Aneesh Raman: Well, I was gonna say there's no right answer 'cause 00:21:22.125 --> 00:21:23.115 it's all about the audience. 00:21:23.115 --> 00:21:26.445 But I guess that makes that number one, the audience matters most. 00:21:26.475 --> 00:21:29.685 And again, that audience is you every day, all day in terms of the thoughts 00:21:29.685 --> 00:21:33.255 in your head, but in any moment where you're communicating with a purpose. 00:21:33.255 --> 00:21:37.635 So the audience matters in terms of who they are, why they are, what's 00:21:37.635 --> 00:21:40.574 going on in their head on that day, and so you have to start there. 00:21:41.205 --> 00:21:43.754 The second is, I think, intent, that purpose. 00:21:43.845 --> 00:21:46.665 You're not just up there in front of that audience to speak for the sake of 00:21:46.665 --> 00:21:48.315 speaking, but you've got a purpose there. 00:21:48.315 --> 00:21:50.385 There's something you're trying to mobilize or whatnot. 00:21:50.655 --> 00:21:54.135 And the third thing, I mean, I have recent bias on it, but I think it's emotion. 00:21:54.254 --> 00:21:55.545 It's something in that belief. 00:21:55.545 --> 00:21:58.875 It's what do you want them to feel, which is different than who is the audience. 00:21:58.875 --> 00:22:02.085 You can have a sense of who's in the room, what's on their mind, 00:22:02.145 --> 00:22:06.014 what you're trying to convince them of based on what's on their mind. 00:22:06.345 --> 00:22:08.385 But when you get to, what do you want them to feel? 00:22:08.925 --> 00:22:12.585 That goes beyond the audience in front of you, that goes to the human condition. 00:22:12.855 --> 00:22:15.945 Because that audience, they're all human and they might think what they 00:22:15.945 --> 00:22:19.365 think and you're thinking about that, but they're underneath that, they might 00:22:19.365 --> 00:22:21.225 not even realize what they're feeling. 00:22:21.225 --> 00:22:23.835 So an example I guess would be like, even with this story, you're 00:22:23.835 --> 00:22:25.754 talking about AI and work AI tools. 00:22:25.754 --> 00:22:27.435 You're coming into a corporate setting. 00:22:27.764 --> 00:22:31.215 These people are eager to know what these tools are, 'cause they know that 00:22:31.215 --> 00:22:32.805 they've gotta shift their jobs around it. 00:22:32.985 --> 00:22:35.504 They work at a tech company, so I'm assuming they're pretty excited about 00:22:35.504 --> 00:22:36.975 the tools or knowledge about the tools. 00:22:37.155 --> 00:22:40.695 My point of view is to try and help them appreciate these tools. 00:22:40.695 --> 00:22:44.024 So you're gonna come in with a story about isn't AI amazing and 00:22:44.024 --> 00:22:46.305 everyone's trying to figure it out and I'm here to help you figure it 00:22:46.305 --> 00:22:47.685 out and here's why our tool's amazing. 00:22:48.105 --> 00:22:52.274 And you might miss it underneath all that existential fear across that 00:22:52.274 --> 00:22:56.205 room that this tool you're talking about, even as it helps them, is just 00:22:56.205 --> 00:22:57.915 helping them help it replace them. 00:22:58.574 --> 00:23:02.115 And if you don't feel that, understand that, if you haven't tapped into 00:23:02.115 --> 00:23:05.895 that in your own gut, then I don't think you land that story. 00:23:06.615 --> 00:23:08.625 Matt Abrahams: As you've mentioned earlier, it's really 00:23:08.625 --> 00:23:10.305 about the internal focus first. 00:23:10.635 --> 00:23:14.445 The first audience and foremost audience is you, understanding your purpose 00:23:14.445 --> 00:23:19.305 and understanding the emotion that might be underlying the communication. 00:23:19.305 --> 00:23:23.265 And then from there, craft a purpose and a message that connects. 00:23:23.685 --> 00:23:26.504 I really appreciate not only the insight into what makes for effective 00:23:26.504 --> 00:23:30.015 communication from your point of view in various roles that you've had, but 00:23:30.015 --> 00:23:33.525 I appreciate the detailed advice and guidance on how we can all prepare 00:23:33.525 --> 00:23:38.415 our careers and ourselves for this new way of working, which after listening 00:23:38.415 --> 00:23:39.915 to you, sounds pretty exciting. 00:23:40.095 --> 00:23:40.485 Thank you. 00:23:42.135 --> 00:23:44.024 Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think 00:23:44.024 --> 00:23:45.615 Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:23:45.764 --> 00:23:48.135 To learn more about portfolio career building, listen to 00:23:48.135 --> 00:23:50.175 episode 226 with Ilana Golan. 00:23:50.415 --> 00:23:54.695 This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:23:55.004 --> 00:23:56.504 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:23:56.835 --> 00:23:59.325 With special thanks to the Podium Podcast Company. 00:23:59.625 --> 00:24:02.835 Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:24:02.925 --> 00:24:04.605 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:24:04.695 --> 00:24:09.415 Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram and check out fastersmarter.io 00:24:09.815 --> 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