WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.230 Welcome to a Vision for Learning, where we discuss our vision 00:00:04.410 --> 00:00:05.759 for what learning can be. 00:00:05.940 --> 00:00:08.984 I'm your host, Jethro Jones, and today I'm excited to have Dr. 00:00:08.984 --> 00:00:10.619 Shannon Putman on the show. 00:00:10.890 --> 00:00:15.599 She's the founder and owner of Putman XR Consulting, a company that focuses 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:19.170 on using the most bleeding edge technology to improve instruction. 00:00:19.569 --> 00:00:24.130 She believes that quality instruction transcends subject matter and age, 00:00:24.490 --> 00:00:28.180 so they don't focus on a specific field or content, but on improving 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.900 performance across all disciplines, including educational classrooms, 00:00:31.900 --> 00:00:33.610 athletic fields, and industry. 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.200 I'm very excited about having her on the show because she's been doing 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:44.200 this for a long time, and I even read her dissertation about using 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.700 virtual reality in, pre-service. 00:00:48.075 --> 00:00:49.965 Learning opportunities for teachers. 00:00:50.334 --> 00:00:52.524 super nerdy, but super fascinating. 00:00:52.884 --> 00:00:55.584 And Shannon, welcome to a Vision for learning. 00:00:55.589 --> 00:00:56.274 Thanks for coming. 00:00:56.274 --> 00:00:57.234 Thank you for having me. 00:00:57.239 --> 00:00:59.034 It's exciting. 00:00:59.144 --> 00:01:02.774 So what's the takeaway from our show today that you think everybody 00:01:02.824 --> 00:01:04.189 should listen to it For I. 00:01:05.659 --> 00:01:11.119 I think if anybody's ever had any interest in virtual reality or if there's any 00:01:11.119 --> 00:01:13.699 educators who are like, you know what? 00:01:14.029 --> 00:01:15.889 I need something new, something to switch it up. 00:01:16.189 --> 00:01:17.119 I need some help. 00:01:17.149 --> 00:01:17.749 Then I. 00:01:18.784 --> 00:01:23.014 Coming from a classroom teacher who has been doing it, who understands, 00:01:23.314 --> 00:01:27.724 then they can listen and hear some great ways that they can include 00:01:27.754 --> 00:01:29.464 this technology in their instruction. 00:01:29.609 --> 00:01:32.499 Yeah, I think what I enjoyed the most was hearing your 00:01:32.499 --> 00:01:34.209 vast experience of doing this. 00:01:34.269 --> 00:01:36.609 and we just barely scratched the surface. 00:01:36.609 --> 00:01:36.639 I. 00:01:37.314 --> 00:01:40.944 We're re recording and releasing this the day before the Apple Vision 00:01:40.944 --> 00:01:44.964 Pro comes out, and so we're gonna talk about that first and some of 00:01:44.969 --> 00:01:46.614 your thoughts and ideas around that. 00:01:46.614 --> 00:01:50.374 But the big thing is when Apple enters the field, they're a huge company and 00:01:50.424 --> 00:01:55.754 they're doing a lot in the space, but when they come in, as you say, it makes people 00:01:55.754 --> 00:01:57.464 realize that this thing is here to stay. 00:01:57.514 --> 00:02:01.044 and I think that's very accurate and apt, way to describe it right now. 00:02:01.484 --> 00:02:05.984 For me, the big thing was hearing your vast experience, how you've already 00:02:05.984 --> 00:02:09.644 done this, with the resources that you've had and other VR headsets. 00:02:09.644 --> 00:02:11.259 And I just think that it's really cool. 00:02:11.509 --> 00:02:15.654 To hear what's available already, a different way that people can 00:02:15.654 --> 00:02:19.584 look at this and see how they can apply it to their classrooms and 00:02:19.584 --> 00:02:20.904 to their learning experiences. 00:02:21.214 --> 00:02:24.244 my interview with Shannon is coming up here in just a moment. 00:02:24.724 --> 00:02:26.824 Thanks so much for listening to a Vision for Learning. 00:02:28.218 --> 00:02:33.588 Shannon, I think the best place to start would be talking about the Apple Vision 00:02:33.588 --> 00:02:40.358 Pro and where you see it fitting in this larger virtual reality ecosystem and what 00:02:40.363 --> 00:02:42.278 you've been working in for a long time. 00:02:42.278 --> 00:02:44.618 So what are your thoughts about the Apple Vision Pro itself? 00:02:44.618 --> 00:02:48.778 Yeah, so that's a fantastic question because it's always exciting when you 00:02:48.783 --> 00:02:50.458 see Apple get involved in something. 00:02:50.558 --> 00:02:53.498 I like to say that if Apple's doing it, you know, it's here to stay. 00:02:53.588 --> 00:02:57.518 And as somebody who's been working in VR for 10 plus years and has 00:02:57.518 --> 00:03:01.338 heard the doomsday statement, every year of VR is dead. 00:03:01.998 --> 00:03:04.553 And knowing that that's not true, it's very exciting. 00:03:05.033 --> 00:03:07.733 I love the idea of the wear of it. 00:03:07.868 --> 00:03:10.088 I love the comfort use idea of it. 00:03:10.418 --> 00:03:16.418 The what we call an industry pass through or mixed reality is also fantastic 00:03:16.418 --> 00:03:21.338 because there are people who are very hesitant to try virtual reality. 00:03:21.338 --> 00:03:24.608 They don't like to not be able to see their own environment. 00:03:25.568 --> 00:03:27.908 all of those things are incredibly exciting. 00:03:28.718 --> 00:03:34.058 I love the idea of having multiple onscreen displays. 00:03:34.923 --> 00:03:39.573 I do think depending on the customer, that's going to 00:03:39.573 --> 00:03:43.053 need to be a little bit more. 00:03:43.153 --> 00:03:48.343 if coming from the educational space, there's not a huge demand that I've 00:03:48.343 --> 00:03:50.503 personally seen to have multiple screens. 00:03:51.518 --> 00:03:52.628 That's because we haven't done 00:03:52.733 --> 00:03:53.003 Yeah. 00:03:53.168 --> 00:03:54.758 had the ability, so we haven't tried it. 00:03:55.598 --> 00:03:57.098 I never discount anything. 00:03:57.338 --> 00:04:01.298 I think it just is geared, my initial thoughts are, is it geared 00:04:01.298 --> 00:04:04.538 a little bit more towards your business office type professional, 00:04:04.773 --> 00:04:06.453 But that doesn't mean that it won't translate to 00:04:06.768 --> 00:04:11.628 Exactly, and so the thing that I'm really interested in is using this 00:04:11.628 --> 00:04:14.178 device for learning specifically. 00:04:14.538 --> 00:04:19.128 And yes, maybe in the context of a school setting. 00:04:19.218 --> 00:04:22.218 Certainly I'm interested in that, having been a principal myself 00:04:22.218 --> 00:04:26.543 and being interested in technology in the classroom as well, but. 00:04:27.073 --> 00:04:30.913 The thing that I'm really excited to talk with you about is all the work 00:04:30.913 --> 00:04:34.713 that you've done around learning with teachers, with students, and more. 00:04:34.718 --> 00:04:36.303 So we'll get into that in just a moment. 00:04:36.783 --> 00:04:39.853 I think one of the other things that I wanna talk about, we are 00:04:39.853 --> 00:04:42.733 recording this before the Vision Pro is released to the public. 00:04:42.893 --> 00:04:46.973 I'm getting my Vision Pro tomorrow, on Launch Day. 00:04:46.973 --> 00:04:48.293 Pretty excited about that. 00:04:48.473 --> 00:04:50.693 Excited to see what is possible with it. 00:04:51.788 --> 00:04:57.118 But as it relates, to some of these new features, some of these new opportunities, 00:04:57.298 --> 00:05:01.288 is there anything that you see with the Apple Vision Pro that wasn't 00:05:01.288 --> 00:05:05.078 possible before with other, devices? 00:05:05.193 --> 00:05:05.313 I. 00:05:07.478 --> 00:05:12.343 I think we're seeing a real big leap in the ability to interact with, 00:05:12.583 --> 00:05:17.663 whether it be mixed reality, or virtual reality, but being able to interact. 00:05:18.033 --> 00:05:21.903 With the content in a more fluid and natural manner. 00:05:21.903 --> 00:05:26.673 So not having to have controllers utilizing more of that hand and 00:05:26.673 --> 00:05:31.483 eye tracking to update in real time, I think is a big jump. 00:05:31.533 --> 00:05:35.268 and it's very much needed because, yes, we have six degree of freedom 00:05:35.268 --> 00:05:37.248 controllers and that's great. 00:05:37.348 --> 00:05:39.808 but it's always, it's still an extra. 00:05:40.273 --> 00:05:44.043 Appendage basically that, can break presence because in the 00:05:44.043 --> 00:05:47.413 physical world, if I wanna pick up my pen, I just pick up my pen. 00:05:47.503 --> 00:05:51.733 I don't actually have to use a push, a trigger button to pick up my pen. 00:05:51.733 --> 00:05:57.168 So I think that's exciting because it just adds more to the presence the 00:05:57.168 --> 00:05:59.893 ability to stay engaged in the activity. 00:05:59.893 --> 00:06:02.143 I think that's really valuable. 00:06:02.143 --> 00:06:05.833 Also, the other thing that I'm thinking is gonna be really incredible for 00:06:05.833 --> 00:06:08.558 people is that if you already have an. 00:06:08.593 --> 00:06:14.643 Apple ID and you already have Apple devices, then you're gonna have a 00:06:14.643 --> 00:06:18.793 bunch of tools and apps that, that you don't have to go out and find, 00:06:18.793 --> 00:06:20.713 like you already have access to them. 00:06:20.713 --> 00:06:22.868 And I think that part of it is really neat. 00:06:22.868 --> 00:06:25.928 And now, of course, in the school setting, having it tied to your 00:06:25.928 --> 00:06:28.743 own individual Apple ID is a big. 00:06:29.043 --> 00:06:34.323 Complex, challenging thing that we've dealt with for a long time in education. 00:06:34.323 --> 00:06:38.133 But I think that piece of having all that stuff already there and 00:06:38.133 --> 00:06:41.253 not having to go out and find it, I think is gonna be really cool. 00:06:41.258 --> 00:06:42.783 Do you have any thoughts on that aspect? 00:06:44.398 --> 00:06:48.703 Yeah, I think it's just like with any type of, cell phone that we have or, tablet. 00:06:48.703 --> 00:06:50.683 it's, you always have the argument with the green 00:06:50.928 --> 00:06:51.078 Yeah. 00:06:51.373 --> 00:06:55.988 user and the Android user versus the Apple user and it seems to be a very loyal. 00:06:56.318 --> 00:06:58.328 Line between the two. 00:06:58.398 --> 00:07:01.758 and so you've got the pro, all the pros and cons that come with that. 00:07:02.178 --> 00:07:07.518 And I do having that ability to have things right there for you. 00:07:07.918 --> 00:07:12.983 I always caution people in that, thing that comes with that is, if 00:07:13.013 --> 00:07:16.038 you have an app and and you make an education or whatever, it's on there. 00:07:16.038 --> 00:07:17.748 It doesn't necessarily mean it's educational. 00:07:18.198 --> 00:07:19.978 however, for all of the. 00:07:20.593 --> 00:07:23.273 Maximizing, daily work and things like that. 00:07:23.288 --> 00:07:24.338 it's fantastic. 00:07:24.338 --> 00:07:29.318 I'm also interested too, because there is a slight curve and a lot of people 00:07:29.318 --> 00:07:31.568 in general don't quite understand that. 00:07:31.573 --> 00:07:34.778 Like, when you have an iPhone, you're using iOS, you don't 00:07:34.783 --> 00:07:36.758 have a MAC operating system. 00:07:37.038 --> 00:07:40.183 they tend to think, it, it's not a MacBook, it's not the same thing. 00:07:40.183 --> 00:07:44.893 the iOS system is different, Also interested to see how, if there's any 00:07:45.283 --> 00:07:47.203 type of issues with those kind of things. 00:07:47.203 --> 00:07:50.083 Especially because, you got your Chromebook users, you've got 00:07:50.083 --> 00:07:52.833 your, basic laptop user, and then you got your MacBook users. 00:07:52.838 --> 00:07:56.058 And that also seems to be a pretty definitive line with people. 00:07:56.058 --> 00:07:57.678 People either love a MacBook or they don't. 00:07:57.723 --> 00:07:59.863 Yeah, so let's shift a little bit. 00:07:59.863 --> 00:08:04.873 You've been introducing virtual reality to people for years in 00:08:04.873 --> 00:08:06.853 your classroom, in your PhD. 00:08:07.183 --> 00:08:12.733 Can you talk about that learning curve of starting to experience something 00:08:13.003 --> 00:08:17.953 new and what some of the typical challenges are that people face when 00:08:17.953 --> 00:08:20.713 they're interacting in these kind of environments for the first time? 00:08:22.473 --> 00:08:23.793 Teachers are an amazing group. 00:08:23.793 --> 00:08:27.183 we're resilient, especially through COII feel like we've taken a lot of 00:08:27.188 --> 00:08:30.393 hits that people don't quite understand what we go through on a daily basis. 00:08:30.513 --> 00:08:32.493 And so we're asked to do a lot. 00:08:32.493 --> 00:08:32.793 We're asked. 00:08:32.793 --> 00:08:37.713 To be moms and dads and social workers and nurses and everything else on top of that. 00:08:37.833 --> 00:08:40.773 And so then when I come through with a new piece of technology, 00:08:40.773 --> 00:08:42.363 it's great, something else. 00:08:42.363 --> 00:08:49.383 my 14 years in class experience have really helped me to design my programs 00:08:49.383 --> 00:08:52.803 and my training so that I can make it as easy as possible on teachers. 00:08:53.793 --> 00:08:55.443 that's what we need it to be and getting. 00:08:56.498 --> 00:08:59.108 to understand that it is not a replacement. 00:08:59.528 --> 00:09:02.618 It is not something that they're going to be using all day every day. 00:09:03.668 --> 00:09:05.768 But it is another tool in their toolkit. 00:09:05.888 --> 00:09:08.618 And I talk about it like the, in the beginning, understanding 00:09:08.618 --> 00:09:09.638 how to use the headset. 00:09:09.638 --> 00:09:12.128 That's like when we went from an overhead to a smart board, you're 00:09:12.133 --> 00:09:14.318 gonna have a learning curve, but that's just the next progression. 00:09:14.798 --> 00:09:17.078 But where the real training and the real support and 00:09:17.083 --> 00:09:20.108 collaboration is so crucial is. 00:09:20.848 --> 00:09:21.418 I have it. 00:09:21.418 --> 00:09:25.348 I understand how to use it, but now how do I actually integrate it into instruction? 00:09:25.798 --> 00:09:29.278 Because teachers are a great group, but I say we always want an app for that. 00:09:29.698 --> 00:09:30.748 So they're like, is there an app for that? 00:09:30.748 --> 00:09:31.438 Is there an app for that? 00:09:31.443 --> 00:09:34.383 if I'm teaching money, like where's the Let's Teach Money app. 00:09:34.423 --> 00:09:36.524 there isn't a Let's Teach Money app, but there's. 00:09:37.293 --> 00:09:41.553 fishing game called bait where kids can catch fish and then earn coins. 00:09:41.883 --> 00:09:45.333 So we have to change our way of thinking for what we have. 00:09:45.573 --> 00:09:48.513 We always wanna continue to develop new content, of course, but there 00:09:48.513 --> 00:09:50.313 doesn't have to be an app for 00:09:50.503 --> 00:09:55.928 Shannon, I'm so glad that you said this because this is specifically why 00:09:55.928 --> 00:09:57.878 I am saying that I'm not focused on. 00:09:57.928 --> 00:10:02.488 on education as a system specifically, but rather as learning, because what I 00:10:02.488 --> 00:10:07.638 want people to do is have a different mindset around this, that it's not what's 00:10:07.638 --> 00:10:13.488 the program or the app that I can install into my classroom to meet these standards. 00:10:13.488 --> 00:10:16.483 What I want us to be thinking about is what are the. 00:10:17.108 --> 00:10:22.508 Things that I need to do or the in the opportunities or experiences 00:10:22.508 --> 00:10:26.138 that I can create for my students so that they can learn the 00:10:26.138 --> 00:10:27.578 things that I need them to learn. 00:10:28.058 --> 00:10:34.298 That may be through a dedicated, specific program or app for that thing 00:10:34.298 --> 00:10:37.598 that you're trying to teach, but as you just beautifully illustrated, 00:10:37.628 --> 00:10:42.188 if it's about money, the fishing game where you have to go by bait is 00:10:42.188 --> 00:10:44.168 actually a pretty good thing to teach. 00:10:44.493 --> 00:10:51.033 And a valuable thing for people to, to use to teach that one specific domain. 00:10:51.343 --> 00:10:54.043 and I just, I really appreciate that perspective because I 00:10:54.048 --> 00:10:55.993 think that's really valuable. 00:10:55.993 --> 00:11:00.373 And too often in education, we look for what's the program, the 00:11:00.378 --> 00:11:03.823 research based program that's gonna lead to these outcomes. 00:11:04.183 --> 00:11:06.913 And I think we need to open up our minds a little bit. 00:11:07.458 --> 00:11:11.838 See what other things we can bring in to incorporate and get some 00:11:11.988 --> 00:11:17.088 side benefits from something that is also enjoyable, fun, whatever. 00:11:17.148 --> 00:11:17.808 Does that make sense? 00:11:17.813 --> 00:11:18.563 What are your thoughts there? 00:11:19.963 --> 00:11:20.683 Absolutely. 00:11:20.683 --> 00:11:22.898 And we started to do it with project based learning. 00:11:22.898 --> 00:11:25.058 I was like, when that came out, it was the big thing. 00:11:25.058 --> 00:11:25.358 And I'm like. 00:11:25.793 --> 00:11:27.323 This is what I do every day. 00:11:27.323 --> 00:11:27.383 Yeah. 00:11:27.483 --> 00:11:28.833 is just quality instruction. 00:11:29.193 --> 00:11:31.293 Like project-based learning wasn't anything new. 00:11:31.293 --> 00:11:35.763 It wasn't anything that you had to do different, it was just good lessons. 00:11:36.133 --> 00:11:39.973 when I was teaching, text clues, I actually set up a scene and I 00:11:39.973 --> 00:11:43.063 had my students do CSI and I had a little black light and everything. 00:11:43.063 --> 00:11:47.203 So we did a real world CSI experience looking for text clues like that's sh. 00:11:47.878 --> 00:11:49.828 That's just good lessons. 00:11:50.098 --> 00:11:53.768 So anytime you can have fun in the classroom and create that 00:11:53.768 --> 00:11:56.558 authentic engagement, that's where you see the most success. 00:11:56.678 --> 00:11:59.678 And I think far too many times the nature of sit and get. 00:12:00.008 --> 00:12:03.728 Is put on teachers because we have so many demands on us now with test scores. 00:12:03.788 --> 00:12:06.128 And I don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses. 00:12:06.488 --> 00:12:09.423 I'm just saying with all these test scores, and coming in and 00:12:09.423 --> 00:12:11.943 are your, I can statements up on your wall, blah, blah, blah. 00:12:11.948 --> 00:12:16.203 Like these little things that I don't think are getting at the core of what's 00:12:16.203 --> 00:12:18.588 important, but actually having students. 00:12:19.003 --> 00:12:21.163 Have fun, enjoy what they're doing. 00:12:21.193 --> 00:12:24.523 And then as teachers, that allows us to create and develop better 00:12:24.523 --> 00:12:28.123 relationships with our students because we get to have fun with them. 00:12:28.393 --> 00:12:30.853 Like when I did the fishing with my students, I had more 00:12:30.853 --> 00:12:33.343 fun than even some of them did. 00:12:33.733 --> 00:12:36.523 And so they still remember that lesson. 00:12:36.983 --> 00:12:40.343 And, we're talking about students who, a Title one school, 00:12:40.343 --> 00:12:41.963 98% free and reduced lunch. 00:12:41.963 --> 00:12:42.413 And you know what? 00:12:42.413 --> 00:12:44.813 They might, but they might never get the chance to go fishing. 00:12:45.923 --> 00:12:47.663 so that in alone was already fun. 00:12:47.663 --> 00:12:52.523 But then how all the creativity that came out of it what was shocking. 00:12:53.238 --> 00:12:56.448 So when we did it and the students, were fishing like they had to, 00:12:56.958 --> 00:12:59.768 I just made a quick, Excel sheet and they had to track every fish. 00:12:59.768 --> 00:13:03.308 They caught the name, the weight, and the stars they earned, and 00:13:03.308 --> 00:13:04.598 how much money they earned. 00:13:04.878 --> 00:13:07.788 we took it from that, and then we talked about, okay, this fish was 00:13:07.788 --> 00:13:09.618 10 pounds and you got 50 coins. 00:13:09.918 --> 00:13:12.828 How heavy do you think it would need to be to get you a hundred coins? 00:13:13.008 --> 00:13:15.078 So now we're talking about estimation. 00:13:15.378 --> 00:13:16.848 Then through the lesson. 00:13:17.003 --> 00:13:20.303 One of the students said, I went, I, I tried to fish in the deeper water. 00:13:20.303 --> 00:13:21.143 And I said, why? 00:13:21.293 --> 00:13:23.813 And she said, because that's where the bigger fish are. 00:13:23.843 --> 00:13:26.313 And I said, why are the bigger fish in the deeper water? 00:13:26.523 --> 00:13:29.073 She said, 'cause they can handle the cold and the other. 00:13:29.223 --> 00:13:31.803 And then we talked about how, why is the water colder? 00:13:31.833 --> 00:13:33.903 'cause it's deeper and the sun can't get to it. 00:13:33.908 --> 00:13:37.113 So it was amazing of a teacher as I am, and I'm pretty awesome. 00:13:37.413 --> 00:13:38.943 I would've never predicted where 00:13:38.943 --> 00:13:42.058 that and then also too, like in the game, I don't know if bait 00:13:42.058 --> 00:13:43.468 ever got them but in the game. 00:13:43.813 --> 00:13:45.943 If you catch a can, you don't get anything. 00:13:45.943 --> 00:13:47.743 And they were like, you're cleaning up the environment, you 00:13:47.743 --> 00:13:48.823 should get something for that. 00:13:49.093 --> 00:13:50.263 And I said, you're absolutely right. 00:13:50.263 --> 00:13:53.683 And so then the classroom teacher had them do their writing piece as a 00:13:53.683 --> 00:13:57.703 persuasive writing piece to the game company to make a change to the game, 00:13:57.943 --> 00:13:59.113 to help clean up the environment. 00:14:00.313 --> 00:14:03.703 So all of that stemmed off of one 30 minute VR lesson. 00:14:04.003 --> 00:14:06.253 And that's what I try to tell people, you don't know the power 00:14:06.253 --> 00:14:07.513 of it until you actually do it. 00:14:07.953 --> 00:14:12.303 so why did all those things stem from that one VR lesson? 00:14:12.303 --> 00:14:15.483 Is that just because you're an amazing teacher or because 00:14:15.483 --> 00:14:17.493 the kids were more engaged? 00:14:17.548 --> 00:14:21.868 what's your hypothesis on why you made so many other connections. 00:14:21.868 --> 00:14:22.288 I joke 00:14:22.393 --> 00:14:22.453 Yeah. 00:14:22.528 --> 00:14:24.778 an awesome teacher 'cause I am, but no, it's because. 00:14:25.768 --> 00:14:29.788 We got to spend that lesson learning, playing and having fun. 00:14:30.058 --> 00:14:33.688 So I didn't have to spend time on behavior and behavior management. 00:14:33.778 --> 00:14:36.088 And the teacher said to me, 'cause she, there was a pretty 00:14:36.088 --> 00:14:38.398 tough class, and she goes, you didn't have any behavior problems. 00:14:38.398 --> 00:14:39.178 And I said, I know. 00:14:39.238 --> 00:14:40.498 And she goes, no. 00:14:40.498 --> 00:14:41.428 Like the whole time. 00:14:41.548 --> 00:14:42.118 And I said. 00:14:42.793 --> 00:14:47.803 I know because the kids were having so much fun, they were enjoying it and 00:14:47.803 --> 00:14:52.873 there were so many authentic social conversational exchanges that I, as 00:14:52.873 --> 00:14:58.573 an adult, could not have scripted for them that it was just fun. 00:14:58.573 --> 00:15:00.703 So it was like we almost forgot that we were learning. 00:15:00.703 --> 00:15:03.253 And then like kids that like weren't allowed to stand next to each other in 00:15:03.253 --> 00:15:06.793 line, they were talking to each other about what fish they caught, didn't 00:15:06.793 --> 00:15:10.903 make 'em best friends or anything like that, but for that one hour. 00:15:11.503 --> 00:15:12.703 They weren't fighting each other. 00:15:13.903 --> 00:15:16.993 So that's the other missing piece that I think in education 00:15:16.993 --> 00:15:18.793 we always get too far away from. 00:15:18.793 --> 00:15:21.103 They're like, the kids need to be intrinsically motivated, 00:15:21.103 --> 00:15:22.363 intrinsic motivation. 00:15:22.573 --> 00:15:23.953 We're just not gonna give 'em a cookie. 00:15:24.173 --> 00:15:25.313 I understand that. 00:15:25.433 --> 00:15:30.368 However, having an external motivation doesn't necessarily mean we're giving 00:15:30.368 --> 00:15:36.443 them a cookie, and VR allows them to have fun and learn at the same time. 00:15:36.653 --> 00:15:41.593 and it takes them out of the learning environment and puts them 00:15:41.598 --> 00:15:45.623 into a virtual environment that is different from what they are used to. 00:15:45.803 --> 00:15:46.223 and I. 00:15:46.718 --> 00:15:49.178 My opinion on this, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. 00:15:49.178 --> 00:15:53.258 Also, my opinion on this is that by being in that different environment, 00:15:53.768 --> 00:15:59.498 you are able to let your guard down a little bit and you, especially 00:15:59.498 --> 00:16:02.738 with students who struggle in school with the academic stuff, 00:16:03.048 --> 00:16:08.118 like the idea of estimating how much they'd get if they caught a hundred pound 00:16:08.118 --> 00:16:10.218 fish or whatever your example, there was. 00:16:10.938 --> 00:16:17.538 That example could be really challenging for a student in a typical 00:16:17.568 --> 00:16:19.368 classroom to try to estimate that. 00:16:19.758 --> 00:16:23.808 But in this situation, they're just playing a game. 00:16:23.838 --> 00:16:28.098 They're just having fun and the risk of looking dumb. 00:16:28.533 --> 00:16:29.853 Falls away a bit. 00:16:29.903 --> 00:16:31.243 and so what are your thoughts on that? 00:16:32.913 --> 00:16:33.933 Yeah, absolutely. 00:16:33.933 --> 00:16:38.223 And the reason I always say that VR is so effective is because it takes those 00:16:38.223 --> 00:16:40.623 higher order concepts and it makes it. 00:16:41.493 --> 00:16:42.033 Possible. 00:16:42.033 --> 00:16:42.783 It makes it real. 00:16:42.993 --> 00:16:45.763 So we're always asking kids to imagine things, like estimation 00:16:45.768 --> 00:16:47.173 is an, is a is imagined. 00:16:47.173 --> 00:16:50.323 he didn't have to imagine because he could catch a bigger fish. 00:16:50.413 --> 00:16:52.633 And the best part about the game was when you squeezed the 00:16:52.638 --> 00:16:56.173 trigger, it actually pulled back like the fish was pulling back. 00:16:56.178 --> 00:16:58.663 So you felt the weight of it pulling. 00:16:58.663 --> 00:17:01.693 So if it was a heavier fish you had to hold on a little 00:17:01.693 --> 00:17:03.703 bit longer and everything else. 00:17:03.703 --> 00:17:07.953 So they could physically feel what it was like to catch a heavier fish. 00:17:08.403 --> 00:17:08.853 And. 00:17:10.068 --> 00:17:14.838 allows us to consume 3D content in a 3D medium, which is another 00:17:14.838 --> 00:17:16.098 reason for its effectiveness. 00:17:16.228 --> 00:17:19.498 so many times we ask kids to learn volume by showing 'em a picture of a 00:17:19.498 --> 00:17:22.738 cube and being like, okay, now imagine there's three more blocks behind it. 00:17:22.818 --> 00:17:27.288 that's incredibly challenging and there's are adults that still struggle with it. 00:17:27.288 --> 00:17:28.908 I myself am horrible. 00:17:29.183 --> 00:17:30.143 Spatial awareness. 00:17:30.353 --> 00:17:33.293 And if you look at my car, you'll know because I hit a lot of stuff. 00:17:33.443 --> 00:17:34.943 'cause I think I have room and I don't. 00:17:35.243 --> 00:17:39.143 So then we get out the unifix cubes, and that works because it's 00:17:39.148 --> 00:17:43.038 3D and they can actually see the makeup of the volume of the cube. 00:17:43.518 --> 00:17:45.348 So VR allows 'em to do that. 00:17:45.348 --> 00:17:47.508 But we don't have to have all these different, cubes 00:17:47.508 --> 00:17:48.588 and everything else around. 00:17:48.588 --> 00:17:54.228 But to physically feel how much heavier something is adds in 00:17:54.228 --> 00:17:55.758 those higher order concepts. 00:17:55.808 --> 00:17:58.298 so with, for example, the Apple Vision Pro, you're not gonna 00:17:58.298 --> 00:18:01.078 have, handsets to feel that. 00:18:01.228 --> 00:18:02.188 Kind of resistance. 00:18:02.188 --> 00:18:05.668 So I'm curious what those kinds of experiences are gonna look like, but I 00:18:05.668 --> 00:18:10.498 wanna shift just a little bit and talk about this idea of a teacher having an 00:18:10.498 --> 00:18:13.708 idea and then being able to create it. 00:18:14.188 --> 00:18:18.448 In a virtual reality environment, and how challenging is that? 00:18:18.453 --> 00:18:19.438 What does that take? 00:18:19.468 --> 00:18:22.738 How much effort and time and energy needs to go into that? 00:18:22.743 --> 00:18:26.488 Because what you're describing with the fishing game, like that's just one 00:18:26.493 --> 00:18:28.228 of many that I know that you've done. 00:18:28.708 --> 00:18:29.758 but that's not. 00:18:30.403 --> 00:18:34.303 that's a different game that somebody else created, but you've also created things. 00:18:34.303 --> 00:18:38.413 And so I wanna talk a little bit about what the creation aspect is like and 00:18:38.413 --> 00:18:42.613 how difficult and challenging that is for a teacher to create resources 00:18:42.913 --> 00:18:44.653 or to just have to find resources. 00:18:44.653 --> 00:18:47.383 Is it possible for a teacher to create their own resources? 00:18:49.023 --> 00:18:49.743 Absolutely. 00:18:49.743 --> 00:18:52.623 So there's every level of support. 00:18:52.623 --> 00:18:56.673 you can have your standard, unreal unity, scripting, coding, all that kind of stuff. 00:18:57.003 --> 00:18:59.943 However, I was not an am, not a programmer. 00:18:59.943 --> 00:19:04.403 And I created my entire dissertation experience, which, was actually 00:19:04.403 --> 00:19:07.373 where you've relive the life of Representative John Lewis. 00:19:07.373 --> 00:19:10.523 And you start with him preaching to his chickens on his farm in 00:19:10.523 --> 00:19:12.893 Troy, and it goes all the way up through the Edmund Pettus Bridge. 00:19:12.953 --> 00:19:16.213 And I created all of that in, a software called In Engage. 00:19:16.663 --> 00:19:20.893 And Engage has been a fantastic piece of education because it allows 00:19:20.893 --> 00:19:25.033 us to create instantly and not have any programming or coding needed. 00:19:26.288 --> 00:19:30.488 And so we're starting to see, more programs that allow that, this no code 00:19:30.788 --> 00:19:32.858 type programming and things like that. 00:19:32.888 --> 00:19:35.498 And, we're going to need to continue to have those. 00:19:35.498 --> 00:19:39.438 And then what's exciting as well is ai, everybody, it's a big buzz term 00:19:39.438 --> 00:19:43.038 and stuff like that, and people, either are afraid of it or they love it, 00:19:43.038 --> 00:19:46.548 but understanding how we can actually integrate that into instruction. 00:19:46.638 --> 00:19:49.998 So like with X reps, the football simulation. 00:19:51.293 --> 00:19:55.913 where you actually play as the quarterback and you do cognitive based 00:19:55.913 --> 00:20:01.313 drills and students are learning, all those concrete tasks that they need. 00:20:01.313 --> 00:20:04.043 one of the updates in the future is gonna be your own coach. 00:20:04.313 --> 00:20:06.803 So the teacher could get in there in the morning and say, Hey coach, we're 00:20:06.808 --> 00:20:08.693 gonna be working on chemical bonds today. 00:20:08.798 --> 00:20:11.273 I want their drills to be focused around chemical bonds. 00:20:11.278 --> 00:20:13.943 And then the coach can create it right away and they don't have to do anything. 00:20:14.773 --> 00:20:19.123 So that's the verge of what we're on, and that's where it's exciting for me 00:20:19.123 --> 00:20:21.493 and exciting to use those kind of things. 00:20:22.158 --> 00:20:25.488 The X reps thing, that sounds pretty cool. 00:20:25.758 --> 00:20:33.318 that is specifically for a quarterback to learn how to get better at passing, right? 00:20:33.648 --> 00:20:36.888 So what in the world are you doing using this, Shannon? 00:20:36.898 --> 00:20:40.138 I'm originally from Syracuse, New York, so I'm a lifelong Bills fan. 00:20:40.168 --> 00:20:43.018 it's been horrible and wonderful all at the same time. 00:20:43.208 --> 00:20:46.058 so I've played sports my whole life, football being one of them. 00:20:46.058 --> 00:20:47.478 And, I've always. 00:20:47.648 --> 00:20:48.158 Loved it. 00:20:48.163 --> 00:20:51.518 I've loved sports and everything, but in my classroom I never did 00:20:51.518 --> 00:20:53.168 things the same as everybody else. 00:20:53.218 --> 00:20:58.488 I always, I didn't like worksheets, so I created a drill, where I went 00:20:58.488 --> 00:21:01.308 to the dollar store and I got pool noodles and I made 'em into a ring and 00:21:01.668 --> 00:21:04.668 I slapped a piece of dry erase tape on there and I hung them from my ceiling. 00:21:04.788 --> 00:21:07.488 And so then I would have my students, they'd have to run over. 00:21:07.488 --> 00:21:10.933 Solve a math problem, run over to the line, pick up the football, and 00:21:10.933 --> 00:21:13.903 then throw it through the ring with the correct answer instead of sitting 00:21:13.903 --> 00:21:16.663 and looking at a worksheet and making an array and doing it that way. 00:21:16.993 --> 00:21:20.053 And so I always had more success 'cause my students were engaged, they were 00:21:20.053 --> 00:21:23.803 activating both sides of their brain, crossing, midline, doing all this stuff. 00:21:23.863 --> 00:21:27.553 So I found X reps and they were a quarterback simulation system. 00:21:27.553 --> 00:21:28.048 And I said, Hey. 00:21:28.628 --> 00:21:32.618 kinda got these ideas and I said, why don't you make a smarter quarterback? 00:21:32.738 --> 00:21:35.248 And so that's where we developed it from there. 00:21:35.338 --> 00:21:38.218 And then basically taking what I did in the classroom and putting it in VR 00:21:38.218 --> 00:21:40.258 and bringing it back to the classroom. 00:21:40.618 --> 00:21:44.638 And one exciting thing about X Reps is we focus on a skill 00:21:44.643 --> 00:21:45.928 called spatial awareness that I. 00:21:46.213 --> 00:21:47.503 Mentioned a little bit earlier. 00:21:47.873 --> 00:21:50.693 and it's a skill that everybody needs, but nobody teaches. 00:21:50.693 --> 00:21:52.103 And we think we do, but we don't. 00:21:52.133 --> 00:21:55.853 It's not a cognitive ability, it's the ability to understand my body and 00:21:55.858 --> 00:21:58.943 space, how it takes up space, and how. 00:21:59.723 --> 00:22:01.193 objects interact in space. 00:22:01.193 --> 00:22:02.213 And I had mentioned my car. 00:22:02.463 --> 00:22:05.463 if you look at my forearms too, they're always bruised because I always run 00:22:05.463 --> 00:22:06.663 into the door, handle with my arm. 00:22:06.693 --> 00:22:09.003 'cause I just am, I'm just not good. 00:22:09.043 --> 00:22:12.673 that's incredibly important for any person in life. 00:22:13.568 --> 00:22:16.478 a quarterback needs to be able to survey the field and then look and see 00:22:16.478 --> 00:22:20.168 if there somebody's, if a receiver is open, and they have to know how big of 00:22:20.168 --> 00:22:22.418 a space they have to fit that ball in. 00:22:22.628 --> 00:22:26.198 But then they also need to know how hard they can throw it and how, with what 00:22:26.203 --> 00:22:30.788 velocity and what angle, and to know, and I'll process this in a 10th of a second, 00:22:30.818 --> 00:22:32.918 if they can fit that ball through that. 00:22:34.288 --> 00:22:37.678 Some quarterbacks can, some quarterbacks think they can and some maybe don't. 00:22:38.018 --> 00:22:43.358 but that's a spatial awareness skill that is not a cognitive ability, so in order to 00:22:43.358 --> 00:22:45.608 train that, that's what these drills do. 00:22:45.788 --> 00:22:47.888 And when that translates into education, that goes to 00:22:47.888 --> 00:22:49.358 everything that goes into welding. 00:22:49.358 --> 00:22:52.568 you have to have your torch at the right distance, otherwise your 00:22:52.568 --> 00:22:54.398 weld is going to be ineffective. 00:22:54.758 --> 00:22:55.838 All those kinds of things. 00:22:55.838 --> 00:22:56.228 So it. 00:22:56.408 --> 00:22:59.528 Translates to every aspect of life. 00:22:59.528 --> 00:23:02.378 And that's why I tell teachers too, like there doesn't have to be an app for that. 00:23:02.428 --> 00:23:05.968 yes, you teach carpentry, however, they're going to need spatial 00:23:05.968 --> 00:23:07.468 awareness and math skills. 00:23:07.678 --> 00:23:11.098 So we can do those things to also reach that same end goal. 00:23:11.233 --> 00:23:11.743 Yeah. 00:23:11.833 --> 00:23:12.073 Yeah. 00:23:12.073 --> 00:23:13.123 That's really fascinating. 00:23:13.513 --> 00:23:17.753 So one of the things that, you had talked about, and I don't remember how much you 00:23:17.753 --> 00:23:22.573 said, on this call compared to the last call we had, but the idea of using this 00:23:22.603 --> 00:23:25.893 tool to help you, have kids say this is. 00:23:26.338 --> 00:23:29.968 Do some math work or whatever and be able to throw the ball through the correct, 00:23:30.418 --> 00:23:33.988 hoop in the sky basically in, in the room. 00:23:33.988 --> 00:23:36.868 Will you talk a little bit more about that, because I thought that was a really 00:23:36.868 --> 00:23:42.418 fascinating way and a fascinating idea of how to combine these things like 00:23:42.418 --> 00:23:43.918 we've been talking about the whole time. 00:23:45.573 --> 00:23:46.833 Yeah, it's just fun. 00:23:46.883 --> 00:23:50.323 I have adult, people, adults, male females that love to play 00:23:50.323 --> 00:23:51.253 it, and they don't care that they. 00:23:51.458 --> 00:23:55.078 Have to answer a simple math problem, because they get to be a quarterback. 00:23:55.078 --> 00:23:58.468 And as we come out with more developments, to make it even more exciting and things 00:23:58.468 --> 00:24:00.148 like that, it's gonna be even better. 00:24:00.458 --> 00:24:02.553 but it goes back to that arm share quarterback, everybody 00:24:02.553 --> 00:24:03.483 thinks they can do it. 00:24:03.488 --> 00:24:05.033 And then, might as well. 00:24:05.483 --> 00:24:08.393 Make it educational and have some fun with it. 00:24:08.393 --> 00:24:10.623 But what's neat too is you actually have to clap your 00:24:10.623 --> 00:24:12.063 hands together to snap the ball. 00:24:12.063 --> 00:24:15.483 And then some quarterbacks don't know that the right answer isn't always there. 00:24:15.483 --> 00:24:19.983 So at times during the drills, the right answer is not in one of the rings. 00:24:20.013 --> 00:24:22.893 So you actually have to throw the ball away to the sideline. 00:24:23.313 --> 00:24:25.923 'cause in football, sometimes throwing the ball away is the right answer. 00:24:26.133 --> 00:24:30.723 So we try to make it as like real as possible so that people. 00:24:31.193 --> 00:24:35.038 They, can just enjoy and have fun and again, step out of 00:24:35.038 --> 00:24:36.148 themselves for a little bit. 00:24:36.148 --> 00:24:39.897 And I've had, I have kids that, don't even like football and they'll play it. 00:24:40.907 --> 00:24:42.007 and, and adults too. 00:24:42.367 --> 00:24:47.067 because it, like I said, it allows us just to some fun and, and I 00:24:47.067 --> 00:24:51.007 always, like I said, I always liked movement and things because it. 00:24:51.292 --> 00:24:55.732 Any time we can activate more parts of our brain and more parts of our 00:24:55.732 --> 00:25:00.632 body and get those engaged in our learning, we're going to see more 00:25:00.707 --> 00:25:01.157 Yeah. 00:25:01.862 --> 00:25:04.262 Al also, the last thing too is it allows. 00:25:05.162 --> 00:25:08.732 people, anybody that does it, it allows you to get multiple repetitions 00:25:08.732 --> 00:25:10.652 in a very short period of time. 00:25:10.922 --> 00:25:14.492 So we know there's some kids that it takes them five exposures to learn the content. 00:25:14.492 --> 00:25:15.812 Others, it takes 500. 00:25:16.062 --> 00:25:20.472 in one three minute game of X reps, you can get 50 to 80 repetitions of 00:25:20.477 --> 00:25:22.722 a subject, and that's invaluable. 00:25:23.402 --> 00:25:27.522 I was, in, in doing some research for this, it was looking at another, 00:25:28.052 --> 00:25:29.372 company and what they're doing and they. 00:25:29.912 --> 00:25:34.752 They train employees and their onboarding, processes and they said 00:25:34.752 --> 00:25:38.912 that the onboarding process for one company they worked with went from 00:25:39.372 --> 00:25:43.212 eight hours down to 15 minutes and 00:25:43.752 --> 00:25:44.172 Right. 00:25:44.252 --> 00:25:47.967 crazy for them to learn and know how to do what they need to do at their job. 00:25:48.417 --> 00:25:52.707 It only took 15 minutes of training with a VR headset on and they were able to. 00:25:53.277 --> 00:25:55.017 to be proficient at their job. 00:25:55.387 --> 00:25:56.377 last question. 00:25:56.617 --> 00:25:59.277 what, what are you excited about for the future? 00:25:59.747 --> 00:26:01.817 anything that, it can be anything you want. 00:26:02.117 --> 00:26:05.957 No, no limits on time, space, money, anything. 00:26:06.007 --> 00:26:08.617 what's something that you see that's exciting that you would say, 00:26:08.707 --> 00:26:12.927 man, if I had all the money, time, expertise, whatever in the world, 00:26:12.927 --> 00:26:14.337 this is what I do, what would that be? 00:26:16.302 --> 00:26:18.642 Outside of the bills winning the Super Bowl. 00:26:18.642 --> 00:26:21.762 I'm assuming you mean so, okay. 00:26:21.852 --> 00:26:22.092 All right. 00:26:23.777 --> 00:26:26.852 I honestly, I started saying five years ago when I. 00:26:27.517 --> 00:26:32.707 started my PhD journey that within five to eight years we're gonna see VR headsets 00:26:32.707 --> 00:26:34.867 in schools like we have Chromebooks now. 00:26:34.957 --> 00:26:39.697 And I've been bang on with that and I'm trying to continue to ensure that happens. 00:26:39.967 --> 00:26:45.067 So what I, if money and everything wasn't an option, then every student 00:26:45.067 --> 00:26:50.977 would have the accessibility to be able to hop into a headset and. 00:26:52.132 --> 00:26:55.822 However that looks, whether that's, mixed reality, whether that is, 00:26:55.922 --> 00:27:00.212 full on immersive virtual reality, but have the ability to learn. 00:27:01.187 --> 00:27:02.807 In the manner that suits them. 00:27:02.937 --> 00:27:05.757 I've always said that I never changed the way my kids learn. 00:27:05.757 --> 00:27:07.047 I changed the way I teach. 00:27:07.377 --> 00:27:12.632 So if we could see teachers starting to embrace the fun and excitement 00:27:12.637 --> 00:27:17.792 of education again, I think it, it's gotten so contentious lately. 00:27:17.862 --> 00:27:21.972 and so the more fun that we can have and the more students that can. 00:27:22.542 --> 00:27:25.662 Can learn to be successful and survive in this world. 00:27:25.872 --> 00:27:27.132 Man, that, that's it right there. 00:27:27.142 --> 00:27:30.082 that's the money shot because that's what we're trying to do. 00:27:30.172 --> 00:27:35.752 And I love also that VR gives accessibility to students who are 00:27:35.752 --> 00:27:39.802 typically, often overlooked, or the last ones included, my special education 00:27:39.832 --> 00:27:44.202 students, using pass through with deaf students so they can enjoy the experience 00:27:44.202 --> 00:27:45.552 and still see their interpreter. 00:27:45.952 --> 00:27:49.012 Not just slapping closed captioning on there and thinking that's gonna work. 00:27:49.062 --> 00:27:53.592 that is also what I think really gets me excited is the 00:27:53.597 --> 00:27:56.952 accessibility and representation and access that can be provided 00:27:56.952 --> 00:27:58.392 for people who otherwise have been 00:27:58.562 --> 00:27:59.642 Yeah, for sure. 00:27:59.642 --> 00:28:01.137 I think that's really amazing too. 00:28:01.547 --> 00:28:07.087 on, on that piece, career View xr, which, Matt Choi was just on this 00:28:07.087 --> 00:28:09.037 show and he connected me with you. 00:28:09.367 --> 00:28:10.717 They are donating I. 00:28:10.967 --> 00:28:15.427 A HCC Vive to every, public and private secondary school 00:28:15.427 --> 00:28:16.777 in the state of North Dakota. 00:28:17.117 --> 00:28:21.077 and that is a really exciting thing that, like that fulfills 00:28:21.077 --> 00:28:23.262 your vision right there, that I. 00:28:23.322 --> 00:28:25.842 we're starting out with just one, and that's okay. 00:28:25.992 --> 00:28:29.417 everybody talks about, this is too expensive to have one for every student. 00:28:29.717 --> 00:28:32.267 as you explained in this episode, so clearly it doesn't 00:28:32.267 --> 00:28:33.797 have to be one per student. 00:28:34.127 --> 00:28:35.087 You can take turns. 00:28:35.087 --> 00:28:38.717 You can, when everybody has this shared experience, then it's a, a. 00:28:39.002 --> 00:28:44.672 A unique new experience for everybody that was personalized to them and how their 00:28:44.672 --> 00:28:47.252 success was or not within that system. 00:28:47.252 --> 00:28:48.777 And I just think that is pretty cool. 00:28:48.777 --> 00:28:52.587 So congrats to Matt on making that happen and having that 00:28:52.587 --> 00:28:53.607 experience in North Dakota. 00:28:53.607 --> 00:28:54.357 That's pretty cool. 00:28:55.542 --> 00:28:56.712 That's amazing. 00:28:56.712 --> 00:28:58.782 And another shout out to Matt in Career View. 00:28:58.782 --> 00:29:02.217 So what I do love about, being my own boss now, is that I get to pick and 00:29:02.217 --> 00:29:07.097 choose who I want to work with and who I think, has the same values like. 00:29:07.262 --> 00:29:10.667 That I do and has that same guiding question of what's best for students. 00:29:10.817 --> 00:29:15.737 And so career view of their own dime is actually working with me and the Kentucky 00:29:15.737 --> 00:29:20.597 School for the Deaf, and we are going to film interpreters, on green screen, and 00:29:20.597 --> 00:29:25.307 they're going to actually add interpreters into all of their experiences so that. 00:29:25.632 --> 00:29:29.592 the deaf students don't have to take the headset off to be able to experience 00:29:29.622 --> 00:29:31.152 everything in the same manner. 00:29:31.152 --> 00:29:34.212 And then what's also exciting is we're gonna be making companion videos 00:29:34.452 --> 00:29:38.232 with the students at KSD, and they're gonna, they're going to teach the. 00:29:38.232 --> 00:29:41.442 and most important signs from the experience so that now our hearing 00:29:41.442 --> 00:29:45.342 community can learn the signs with them and learn to communicate with them, 00:29:45.342 --> 00:29:47.362 which is that crucial final component. 00:29:47.417 --> 00:29:50.027 couldn't be more excited to be working with career view and the 00:29:50.027 --> 00:29:52.277 fantastic work that they're doing and. 00:29:52.642 --> 00:29:55.342 And the last thing is, I'll say, I promise to that point 00:29:55.372 --> 00:29:57.862 of I loved Google Expeditions. 00:29:57.862 --> 00:29:58.522 Don't get me wrong. 00:29:58.522 --> 00:29:59.692 It was fantastic. 00:29:59.722 --> 00:30:02.362 It got teachers to actually try to start to use vr. 00:30:03.172 --> 00:30:06.022 however, it set up this narrative that I have to have all my 00:30:06.022 --> 00:30:07.432 students on at the same time. 00:30:07.482 --> 00:30:08.892 and you absolutely do not. 00:30:08.892 --> 00:30:10.092 You can, and I've done it. 00:30:10.092 --> 00:30:13.482 I've had 40 students on a headset in one room at the same 00:30:13.482 --> 00:30:14.682 time, and did it successfully. 00:30:14.682 --> 00:30:16.482 But it doesn't have to be that way. 00:30:16.487 --> 00:30:17.442 There are so many funds. 00:30:17.462 --> 00:30:18.452 Things you can do. 00:30:19.592 --> 00:30:24.382 so I always say I would, if I can only get one VR headset, I'd get one all 00:30:24.382 --> 00:30:25.982 day, every day and twice on Sunday. 00:30:27.692 --> 00:30:30.612 I think it's fantastic the work that's being done by career view and 00:30:30.612 --> 00:30:33.992 everybody that you know, is in this field and has been in this field 00:30:34.022 --> 00:30:35.252 in the trenches, putting the work 00:30:35.267 --> 00:30:35.497 Yeah. 00:30:35.792 --> 00:30:39.032 where everybody else is finally starting to get it, which is beyond 00:30:39.247 --> 00:30:40.552 Yeah, it's very cool. 00:30:40.862 --> 00:30:42.837 so you've been doing this for a long time. 00:30:42.867 --> 00:30:44.157 This is not new to you. 00:30:44.162 --> 00:30:47.617 How do people get in touch with you and learn, how to work with you to bring 00:30:47.617 --> 00:30:49.102 these experiences into their classrooms? 00:30:49.582 --> 00:30:49.702 I. 00:30:50.692 --> 00:30:52.282 Yeah, absolutely they can. 00:30:52.372 --> 00:30:54.352 they, I, they can email me, which I. 00:30:55.297 --> 00:30:58.937 When I was, I'll admit I'm a noob, when I was starting my business and 00:30:58.937 --> 00:31:04.327 so my email's a little bit long, but, it's shannon@putmanxrconsulting.com 00:31:04.687 --> 00:31:09.717 or I'm on LinkedIn and I'm currently, about to launch my website, 00:31:09.722 --> 00:31:10.977 which will be very exciting. 00:31:11.407 --> 00:31:14.077 so that will be coming soon and I can definitely follow 00:31:14.077 --> 00:31:15.967 up with you when I have that 00:31:16.312 --> 00:31:19.567 Yeah, I think people will be listening to this later when that is launched. 00:31:19.567 --> 00:31:24.067 So putnam@putmanxrconsulting.com. 00:31:24.072 --> 00:31:27.947 We'll put a link to that in the show notes, as well as your LinkedIn profile 00:31:27.947 --> 00:31:29.267 so that people can reach out to you. 00:31:29.267 --> 00:31:31.677 And I think, you've been doing this for a long time. 00:31:31.677 --> 00:31:35.037 I, and the good thing about Apple entering the space is that it's 00:31:35.037 --> 00:31:37.677 bringing awareness to something that you've already been doing. 00:31:37.682 --> 00:31:41.427 So you're already an expert and can help people get moving in the right. 00:31:41.567 --> 00:31:42.647 Direction with that. 00:31:42.647 --> 00:31:44.687 So thanks again, Shannon, for being here. 00:31:44.687 --> 00:31:45.797 Appreciate your time today. 00:31:47.142 --> 00:31:47.832 No thank you. 00:31:47.832 --> 00:31:48.762 I couldn't have had more fun. 00:31:48.762 --> 00:31:49.692 I really appreciate it.