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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who

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have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they

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got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.

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How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,

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and most importantly, find joy.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

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New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

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Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

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You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

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Welcome back to Live Free, Ride
Free, where we talk to people who are

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living self actualized lives, living
life on their own terms and making

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a go of it in whichever way they are
interested in following their passions.

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Making a livelihood.

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What can we learn from these people?

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It's what we all aspire to do this week
I've got Suki Baxter now if you don't

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know who she is just go on YouTube and
type her in you're gonna find some videos

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that an awful lot of people watch and
I like many of you I'm always a bit

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Curious about how do these people get
so many people to watch their videos?

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I mean, yes, their content's
amazing and her content is amazing.

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We're going to talk about it.

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So obviously you can't get
that without amazing content.

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How do they take it beyond that?

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How do they make a living from it?

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More than that.

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How did they get to the point
where they were making that

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amazing content in the first place?

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So what is Ziggybax's amazing content?

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Well, it has to do with
your nervous system.

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It has to do with your brain and it
has to do with Feeling better about

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stuff in a real way not in an ephemeral
way I don't want to give too much away

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because Suki's gonna talk us through some
pretty interesting stuff about how to

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live happier Not just to live free ride
free more self actualized, but really

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genuinely some secrets of happiness here
So without further ado welcome Suki.

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Can you tell us please?

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Sukie Baxter: Who you are.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I am an embodiment coach.

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I, as you said, have a YouTube channel
that has gotten quite a few followers.

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And I came into this work
through the door of the body.

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So, I spent about 15 years having a
clinical body work practice where I

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worked 1 on 1 with clients and in the
process of understanding how bodies work.

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A lot of people who came to me had a lot
of physical pain and postural complaints.

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I had to really start asking myself some
questions about where the symptoms were

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coming from and all of my questions.

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Continuously led me back
to the nervous system.

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So, over the course of the 15 years
that I was working on people, I

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just kept coming back to the nervous
system as the foundational piece that

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was contributing to a lot of these
challenges that I was seeing in people.

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And when I really began to delve
into the nervous system, I.

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Discovered that it was related to far
more than just your physical posture

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and pain or lack thereof, but really
to how you were experiencing how person

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experiences life, whether that's in a
positive way, a pleasurable, pleasant

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way, or whether it creates a life that
is challenging and full of struggle.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay, you
said very Quickly there.

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You had a physical therapy practice.

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What did you do?

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What were you doing?

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What was your hands on?

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Were you a massage therapist?

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Were you, what

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Sukie Baxter: were you?

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Yeah, so I am technically a licensed
massage therapist and I practice a form

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of body work that is called rolfing,
which some people may have heard of.

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Some people may not have, it's got
kind of a grassroots following.

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But rolfing is a.

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Way of approaching the body
from a structural perspective.

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So really looking at how all the parts
and pieces of your body work together to

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create optimal posture and, and movement.

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So when a person would come in, I would
do a posture and movement assessment,

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have a conversation with them observe them
walking, standing, moving in various ways.

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And then approach helping them
to be more integrated and to have

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basically less friction in their
movement from a very holistic way.

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So, oftentimes, when we go to a
practitioner, a specialist for

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maybe we have a sore shoulder or a
sore hip a lot of times the work is

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focused on that region of the body.

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So you go in, you say,
I have a sore shoulder.

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Your doctor looks at your shoulder.

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Why is this shoulder sore?

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When someone would come to me,
I would look at their shoulder.

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And also, how is that shoulder
connected to a ribcage?

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And a torso and how is that
rib cage balanced on the

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pelvis and so on and so forth.

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So really backing up and looking
at it from a systems level

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Rupert Isaacson: approach.

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And when you do this Rolfing thing, are
you, is it like a massage and that you're

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going in and you sort of squeeze with your
hands in the way that we think of, or, you

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know, put your elbow on or whatever the
way we think of as a massage therapist?

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Or are you doing something else?

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Something more specific?

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Yeah,

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Sukie Baxter: I think that's
a really great question.

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So, yeah, a lot of times it looks
like classic body work, right?

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So some, you have somebody come in,
they, they're standing in a room,

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you do a movement posture assessment,
and then typically I would get them

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on a table and do various things
that look like massage, right?

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Applying pressure.

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I may have them move while
I'm applying pressure.

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But yeah, there's,
there's physical contact.

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So it is manual manipulation,
manual therapy, however you want

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to classify that which is why
it's classified under massage.

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But the experience of it is
usually a little bit different,

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which is something that's a little
bit hard to verbally convey.

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But when people experience it, they're
like, oh, yeah, this is different.

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But really, I, I think what's
really interesting is that this is

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what led me to the nervous system.

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Right?

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So when somebody gets.

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A body work of any kind.

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What's really going on there?

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And what I was noticing was that I
would have these clients come in.

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Some of these clients, I swear to
you, just being in the room with me,

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they would start to change and shift,
like just having a conversation.

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There was no physical contact whatsoever.

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When these people started to
change, it was so easy to have

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their bodies shift other people.

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I.

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I'm telling you, like no amount
of pressure that I applied

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seemed to have an effect.

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And that's really where I
started asking the question.

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Okay.

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I've been told that what I'm
doing here is like breaking

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up adhesions in their fascia.

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So rolfing uses a lot of myofascial
release, myofascial type techniques.

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And I was, I was told in my training,
like we're, we're doing all these

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things to break up adhesions or
separate different sheets of fascia.

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So they glide, but all
these mechanical things.

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And I was like, but.

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I'm applying pressure to all these
different people with differing results.

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So something else might be going on here.

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And I just, even at the inception, I was
like, I think it's in the nervous system.

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I didn't know.

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I didn't have a lot of you know, this is,
this is BG, as I say, like, before Google.

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So there wasn't nearly as
much information available.

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And I, I didn't know where to go
and who to ask, but I just started

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Thinking that there seems to be
a nervous system component here.

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It seems to have something to
do with how a person senses the

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contact that is being applied.

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And over time, as I learned a lot more
and learned how the body works, I was

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like, yeah, actually, that is true.

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And I filled in many, many, many holes and
gaps and knowledge and I'm still learning

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as we all are, because we're still
discovering how all of this works, but.

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But over and over again, I kept
coming back to, yeah, it's in the

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sensing, it's in the body's ability
to feel and to have that sensory

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information processed by the brain.

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That's what's actually changing the
map of the body and the posture,

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but there's also all these other
wonderful effects as, you know, as you

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mentioned, that make us so much happier.

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When our nervous system is optimally
functioning and that was the other piece

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of it was that some of my clients would
come in and I would just see their entire

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lives change where people would You
know, leave really toxic relationships.

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They would leave careers that
were burning them out and making

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them miserable and unhealthy.

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They would make these dramatic
changes in their lives.

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And it seemed coincidental.

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It seemed to, it seemed to coincide
with the work that we were doing and

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I want us to know, okay, so why are
these people like, really coming into

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their own, really having more agency
over themselves, really Finding a way

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to follow what feels good for them and
create that life that makes them happy.

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Like, how is this physical contact
creating that kind of a change?

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And again, it led me
to the nervous system.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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So before we go to the nervous
system, it's interesting.

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I mean, we, we, this podcast called
Live Free, Ride Free, and it sounds

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like you are helping people to do
that, to liberate themselves and self

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actualize through the nervous system.

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We're going to go back to that.

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And I want to know how, however, there's
some questions I've got based on some

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things that you said, which some terms
I want to clarify, because I'm sure

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that a lot of listeners might not know.

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So we should tell them what is fascia,
what is something that is myofascial, and

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when you talk about sensing, what is that?

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So can we start with fascia?

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What is fascia?

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Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

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So fascia is a type of tissue.

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It's a connective tissue within the body.

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It's one of the most pervasive
tissues within the body.

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You have quite a lot of it.

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Oftentimes you will hear People say
that it wraps around things like

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wraps around the muscle bellies
and kind of is under your skin.

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So it covers things, but it
actually permeates your body

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down to the cellular level.

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So if we could magically put you,
Rupert, into some kind of a solution

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that would dissolve everything in your
body, that was not fascia, we would

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have a 3d imprint of Rupert, which is
different from a lot of things, right?

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So if we just had your skeletal structure,
you know, we would, we would see your

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bones, but we wouldn't actually see your.

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Your facial features and your, you
know, the musculature of your body

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and how all of that was developed.

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If we just had your skin, we would
see the outside, but there'd be no,

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you know, in no inside no innards.

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We wouldn't really be able to know what
the inside organization of your body

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looked like fashion gives us all of that.

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It would give us almost like a spider
web, like, imprint of your body.

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And fascia has been something that people
have been looking at as there's, there's

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quite a lot of cells in fascia that sense.

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So we'll talk about that in a second.

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That sense where we are in space,
that sense stretching and vibration

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and movement in our bodies.

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And so, fascia is kind of the organ of.

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Consciousness or interoception, or
people quantify that differently, but

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it, it's a, it's a type of tissue that
both supports our body and then gives

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us a lot of information about our
body state and our body's movement.

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Rupert Isaacson: So you say an organ,
do you think of it as an organ?

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Sukie Baxter: Well, I don't know
that it classically is considered

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an organ that's just a word
that people use to describe it.

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Right, but do you,

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Rupert Isaacson: do you feel that
that's an apt description with it,

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with the work that you've done?

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Sukie Baxter: I think it's an organ
similarly to the way skin is an organ.

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Okay.

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Rupert Isaacson: Like an internal
skin, an internal sense of skin.

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Sukie Baxter: Exactly.

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But it doesn't it doesn't do
the same things as skin, right?

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It doesn't sweat.

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It doesn't do all of those things,
because that would be awkward if you're

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sweating around your stomach or something.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So I, so I don't know if like, if
we were being like really, you know,

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linear, like Western medicine type of
scientific, is it technically an organ?

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I don't know if but yeah, you could
say it's an organ of consciousness

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or an organ of something.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so consciousness.

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So is it, so when you were describing
it, it sounds, the first thing

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that I thought was it sounds wet.

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It sounds like a watery thing.

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And I remember from the days when
I used to hunt deer and things like

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that, and I would skin them and
you would, you know, peel back the

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skin and then there would be this.

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Jelly like thing that was like a bubble
wrap around things and I presume that

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that is the fascia or part of it.

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Anyway it was pretty wet.

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I suppose our bodies are, you
know, 75 percent water or whatever,

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but it's interesting that you
talk about consciousness there.

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Do you feel that your fascia is a
conductive part of the body that,

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that conducts information from
one part of the body to the other?

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And if so, how does it differ?

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I know I'm going down
a bit of a rabbit hole.

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How does it differ from
your nervous system?

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Or do you think it's part of?

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Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I
think, I think it is.

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I think everything is
everything to be honest.

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So, so, so, and this is kind of, I think a
question that I come up against a lot in a

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lot of different areas where people like,
well, you know, they look at this piece of

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us now, like, this seems really important.

00:12:41.374 --> 00:12:42.644
They get really fixated on that piece.

00:12:42.644 --> 00:12:46.224
Fascia is an important piece, but
it's not important on its own.

00:12:46.224 --> 00:12:46.804
In my opinion.

00:12:46.834 --> 00:12:49.224
I think it's important in that
it's connected to a system.

00:12:49.564 --> 00:12:50.964
It's it's sensing.

00:12:50.964 --> 00:12:51.014
Yeah.

00:12:51.014 --> 00:12:51.021
Yeah.

00:12:51.021 --> 00:12:51.029
Yeah.

00:12:51.609 --> 00:12:54.369
Our internal environment, it's
sensing our external environment,

00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.869
and then it's conveying that to our
brain via nervous system processes.

00:12:59.489 --> 00:13:02.399
If we didn't have those nervous
system processes to receive that

00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.709
information, it wouldn't really
matter that we had the fascia.

00:13:05.369 --> 00:13:08.049
So the whole system is what's important.

00:13:08.979 --> 00:13:10.979
Rupert Isaacson: Is it a bit like
the silica in a master keyboard?

00:13:10.999 --> 00:13:11.852
I don't

00:13:11.852 --> 00:13:12.279
Sukie Baxter: know.

00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:15.969
I don't know how keywords
are put together.

00:13:16.599 --> 00:13:17.029
Maybe.

00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:21.969
But, but I, I think people get sort
of like, aha, this is the thing.

00:13:22.009 --> 00:13:23.279
And they get really fixated on that.

00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:25.759
And that is very it's very science based.

00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.419
It's, you know, science seeks to kind
of take things apart to their smallest

00:13:28.449 --> 00:13:30.009
component, which is really beneficial.

00:13:30.009 --> 00:13:31.249
It helps us to understand things.

00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:35.319
But we, we often kind of get
fixated on these smaller pieces and

00:13:35.319 --> 00:13:38.439
lose sight of the bigger, Picture
so fascia is part of our system.

00:13:38.609 --> 00:13:40.099
You asked about myofascia.

00:13:40.099 --> 00:13:41.889
So when you say myofascial
myo means muscle.

00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:42.919
So it's muscle fascial.

00:13:43.229 --> 00:13:46.629
So you're talking about the, the
muscle and the fascia together.

00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:51.329
So, myofascial release,
what that literally means is

00:13:51.329 --> 00:13:52.649
we're releasing the muscle.

00:13:52.929 --> 00:13:58.249
Like lengthening, you know, relaxing,
reducing tension and we're stretching the

00:13:58.249 --> 00:14:02.419
fashion, but that, that brings me full
circle back around to what I was saying,

00:14:02.419 --> 00:14:06.279
which is that what I was taught was, you
know, we're, we're, we're doing that.

00:14:06.289 --> 00:14:10.149
We're stretching, we're mechanically,
like, if you think about like a plastic

00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.699
bag, like a grocery bag, if you stick
your thumb in it and you kind of stretch

00:14:13.699 --> 00:14:18.229
it out how it, how it kind of creates
a pocket or a pucker in the, in the

00:14:18.229 --> 00:14:20.309
plastic, that was how I was taught.

00:14:20.309 --> 00:14:22.179
We were affecting the body.

00:14:22.619 --> 00:14:27.899
But my, my actual clinical experience did
not bear that out because I was like, I'm

00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:29.459
the same person for all of these people.

00:14:29.459 --> 00:14:32.619
I'm applying, you know, pressure
from my body to their body, but

00:14:32.619 --> 00:14:33.799
I'm getting different results.

00:14:33.829 --> 00:14:39.169
So why is it working for this person
with a feather touch and that person

00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:41.079
with extreme amounts of pressure?

00:14:41.079 --> 00:14:42.489
We're not having the same results.

00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:46.189
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, and this
process goes on for how long?

00:14:46.429 --> 00:14:49.859
You're, you're rolfing, you've got
your practice, people are coming

00:14:49.869 --> 00:14:53.259
in, they're lying on your table,
you're, you're, you're noticing

00:14:53.299 --> 00:14:54.069
all these different things.

00:14:54.079 --> 00:14:57.779
Some of them are having these huge
life, positive life changing events.

00:14:58.179 --> 00:15:02.879
Some you don't even have to touch and
you seem to get a positive effect.

00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.989
Some, no matter how much
you touch them, not so much.

00:15:06.469 --> 00:15:09.839
How long is that going on before
you go, I want to do a deep

00:15:09.839 --> 00:15:10.959
dive into the nervous system?

00:15:12.084 --> 00:15:13.454
Sukie Baxter: It was an ongoing process.

00:15:13.674 --> 00:15:16.794
It was more that every time I tried
to learn something new, I sort of

00:15:16.794 --> 00:15:18.154
came back to the nervous system.

00:15:18.174 --> 00:15:21.904
So, I started with studying a lot
of energy work because I was like,

00:15:21.904 --> 00:15:23.714
is there an energy work component?

00:15:23.754 --> 00:15:27.774
And I think there is but it was,
it was ultimately unsatisfying for

00:15:27.784 --> 00:15:29.674
me because I, it still felt like.

00:15:30.464 --> 00:15:30.694
Okay.

00:15:30.694 --> 00:15:31.574
But it's very random.

00:15:31.674 --> 00:15:33.774
How do I actually, yeah, exactly.

00:15:33.774 --> 00:15:34.614
I love energy work.

00:15:34.614 --> 00:15:36.934
I think it's really great, but I
just didn't feel like it was tangible

00:15:36.934 --> 00:15:40.044
enough for me to feel confident
that when a person came into me

00:15:40.044 --> 00:15:42.844
and I also do this work on horses
or have done this work on horses.

00:15:43.264 --> 00:15:45.834
So when, when a human would come in
or when I was working with a horse,

00:15:45.854 --> 00:15:48.204
I was like, how can I kind of.

00:15:48.269 --> 00:15:52.539
I don't know tangibly that
I'm having an impact here.

00:15:52.999 --> 00:15:55.839
And energy work was just, like,
vague is a really good word.

00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.679
And some people are, you know, they
feel it and they're really into it.

00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.989
And other people, it's like,
they can't access at all.

00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:03.684
So, so, so That was a piece of it.

00:16:03.684 --> 00:16:07.984
But then also the nervous system runs on,
you know, electricity, which is energy.

00:16:07.994 --> 00:16:11.164
So again, I was like, okay, let's
go back to the nervous system.

00:16:11.624 --> 00:16:14.924
And I just sort of everything that I
did kept bringing me back to the nervous

00:16:14.924 --> 00:16:18.744
system is our essentially our human or
mammalian really, because not just human,

00:16:18.744 --> 00:16:20.504
but our mammalian operating system.

00:16:21.144 --> 00:16:24.324
And if we're affecting that, if we can
understand how we're affecting the nervous

00:16:24.334 --> 00:16:28.389
system then Like you said, we can really
liberate people because the other thing

00:16:28.389 --> 00:16:33.009
that I kept running into in my studies was
these sort of like limiting blueprints of

00:16:33.009 --> 00:16:38.209
how to, how to control your thoughts or
how to excavate, you know, quote, limiting

00:16:38.209 --> 00:16:43.259
beliefs, or, you know, basically how to
control yourself in a way to be happy.

00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:44.179
And.

00:16:44.609 --> 00:16:46.999
And that didn't seem to really
work for me because, because

00:16:47.019 --> 00:16:48.639
not all people are the same.

00:16:48.689 --> 00:16:53.459
For me, I wanted to strip away all the
layers of what a person isn't so that they

00:16:53.459 --> 00:16:57.759
have the ability to grow into what they
naturally and inherently are, which is

00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.369
going to look different for you than for
me, than, you know, for, for everybody

00:17:01.369 --> 00:17:02.919
out there, we're all individuals.

00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:03.922
So let's

00:17:03.922 --> 00:17:06.429
Rupert Isaacson: go from vague to vagal.

00:17:09.139 --> 00:17:11.699
Tell us what you found out
about the nervous system.

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:16.659
Sukie Baxter: So when I landed on
what is called polyvagal theory,

00:17:16.659 --> 00:17:19.299
and I can define that term, but
it's called polyvagal theory.

00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:20.399
It really My mother's

00:17:20.399 --> 00:17:22.089
Rupert Isaacson: name is Polly
and she can be a bit vague.

00:17:22.099 --> 00:17:22.629
It's true sometimes.

00:17:24.849 --> 00:17:25.939
Sukie Baxter: And probably in many ways.

00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:33.569
When I landed on that, I It
seemed to really map with what

00:17:33.569 --> 00:17:34.879
I was observing in people.

00:17:34.899 --> 00:17:38.289
So, polyvagal theory is a
theory that was put forth by a

00:17:38.289 --> 00:17:39.799
gentleman named Steven Porges.

00:17:40.459 --> 00:17:44.249
And what Steven Porges found is that
there's a very large nerve, which we

00:17:44.249 --> 00:17:47.419
did know about, but he didn't discover
the nerve, but he found that this very

00:17:47.419 --> 00:17:50.889
large nerve called the vagus nerve
it's called the vagus nerve because

00:17:50.909 --> 00:17:52.079
vagus comes from the vagus nerve.

00:17:52.269 --> 00:17:53.829
It's not Las Vegas Vegas.

00:17:54.269 --> 00:17:59.259
It's, I was, I was hoping it's
from the Latin word for wandering

00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:00.469
and it's a very long nerve.

00:18:00.479 --> 00:18:03.569
So it, it wanders from your cranium
down through your neck through

00:18:03.569 --> 00:18:07.239
your upper torso and then into your
viscera deep into your viscera.

00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.449
And so if you look up, you know, an
image of the vagus nerve, it's this,

00:18:10.489 --> 00:18:12.529
this big tangly long wandering thing.

00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:17.949
And what what Stephen Porges found is
that this vagus nerve is it functions

00:18:17.979 --> 00:18:20.589
to help regulate our stress response.

00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.769
And his theory is that there are multiple
branches of this vagus nerve and that

00:18:24.769 --> 00:18:29.059
these branches have different functions,
which is why it's called polyvagal theory.

00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:30.629
So poly coming from many.

00:18:30.989 --> 00:18:34.049
The word for many vagal from
the vagus nerve and then

00:18:34.049 --> 00:18:35.669
theory because it is a theory.

00:18:35.699 --> 00:18:38.469
And I always want to emphasize that
because there's a lot of people

00:18:38.469 --> 00:18:42.549
talking about exactly how this all
works physiologically within the body.

00:18:42.989 --> 00:18:43.969
We're still learning.

00:18:43.979 --> 00:18:46.539
I think in 10 years, we're going
to know a lot more and we may

00:18:46.539 --> 00:18:47.929
have a completely different.

00:18:48.284 --> 00:18:49.294
Map at that time.

00:18:49.294 --> 00:18:49.724
It's growing.

00:18:49.724 --> 00:18:50.444
It's evolving.

00:18:50.814 --> 00:18:51.844
But it's a, it's a theory.

00:18:52.284 --> 00:18:55.784
And so I always like to keep in
mind that the, that it's a map.

00:18:55.794 --> 00:18:59.644
It's not the territory, which is
the common saying in lots of fields,

00:18:59.644 --> 00:19:00.694
but it's common in body work.

00:19:00.694 --> 00:19:01.964
The map is not the territory.

00:19:02.024 --> 00:19:02.284
So.

00:19:03.074 --> 00:19:06.294
It's just, it just gives us a
framework for beginning to understand

00:19:06.294 --> 00:19:08.754
the stress response and it does map.

00:19:09.199 --> 00:19:14.249
very cleanly with what I and a lot of
other practitioners of various fields have

00:19:14.249 --> 00:19:19.169
found observationally in our clients in
terms of how stress functions and what

00:19:19.169 --> 00:19:21.299
it does to us and how that is observed.

00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:26.649
Rupert Isaacson: Can you give us the sort
of breakdown 101 polyvagal for dummies?

00:19:27.134 --> 00:19:27.334
Yeah.

00:19:28.334 --> 00:19:31.084
Sukie Baxter: So the polyvagal theory
the, the simple breakdown is that

00:19:31.084 --> 00:19:34.524
you basically have three states
in polyvagal theory, you have the

00:19:34.524 --> 00:19:36.644
ventral vagal ventral meaning front.

00:19:36.654 --> 00:19:39.464
So this is the front
branch of your vagus nerve.

00:19:39.724 --> 00:19:43.424
Stephen Porges identified this as the
branch of your vagus nerve that is

00:19:43.424 --> 00:19:45.384
responsible for social engagement.

00:19:45.394 --> 00:19:49.014
So the ability to connect to other
people and animals, the ability

00:19:49.014 --> 00:19:53.294
to have empathy, the ability to co
regulate meaning that we can kind of.

00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.329
Symbiotically feel what the
other is feeling and come into

00:19:56.329 --> 00:19:57.879
a similar state as another

00:19:57.929 --> 00:19:58.189
Rupert Isaacson: person.

00:19:58.189 --> 00:20:02.659
And I'm listening to reggae and having
a beer and feeling iry and having a hug.

00:20:03.639 --> 00:20:03.919
I'm in my bedroom.

00:20:03.919 --> 00:20:04.409
There you go.

00:20:04.829 --> 00:20:05.089
Okay.

00:20:05.089 --> 00:20:05.339
Sukie Baxter: Yes.

00:20:05.409 --> 00:20:05.659
Cool.

00:20:05.849 --> 00:20:06.059
Got it.

00:20:06.109 --> 00:20:06.919
Absolutely.

00:20:07.299 --> 00:20:09.269
It's, it's basically where
all the good stuff in life is.

00:20:09.269 --> 00:20:13.019
The, the, the love, the joy, the
happiness, the, you know, the excitement,

00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:16.589
the, all the, all the things that we
think of as things we want to experience.

00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.479
Rupert Isaacson: That's all
down the front of my tummy.

00:20:18.789 --> 00:20:19.169
Sukie Baxter: Ventral.

00:20:19.169 --> 00:20:19.819
Front of your tummy.

00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:21.529
Ventral bagel, according to the, gorgeous.

00:20:21.609 --> 00:20:21.899
Yep.

00:20:22.389 --> 00:20:24.409
Then you have your
sympathetic nervous system.

00:20:24.509 --> 00:20:27.299
So, your sympathetic nervous
system is responsible for your

00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:29.999
fight or flight response, which
a lot of people are Is ventral

00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:30.909
Rupert Isaacson: parasympathetic?

00:20:31.749 --> 00:20:33.829
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so your vagus
nerve is the main nerve of your

00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.319
parasympathetic nervous system.

00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:37.439
Although I will, like,
little asterisk here.

00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:41.749
There is research that is finding
that the vagus nerve can have an

00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.709
activating effect when stimulated.

00:20:45.244 --> 00:20:52.554
So I, I'm still looking into this
because I'm, it's really hard to get

00:20:52.584 --> 00:20:55.564
a grip on what exactly that means.

00:20:55.634 --> 00:20:58.474
Rupert Isaacson: But for
dummies at this stage, front

00:20:58.514 --> 00:21:00.484
ventral parasympathetic, good.

00:21:01.144 --> 00:21:01.464
Yes.

00:21:02.004 --> 00:21:04.224
And then, so the other
one is dorsal, right?

00:21:04.874 --> 00:21:07.764
Sukie Baxter: Yes, so your vagus
nerve is parasympathetic, your

00:21:07.764 --> 00:21:09.394
sympathetic is fight or flight.

00:21:09.604 --> 00:21:13.714
Your parasympathetic is rest and digest,
your sympathetic is fight or flight.

00:21:13.744 --> 00:21:17.234
If you can just kind of get that piece
down, that's the simple explanation.

00:21:17.244 --> 00:21:17.434
But

00:21:17.474 --> 00:21:20.034
Rupert Isaacson: are there not two
branches of the vagal nerve doing both?

00:21:20.474 --> 00:21:20.754
Right.

00:21:20.754 --> 00:21:23.074
So front one ventral, back one dorsal.

00:21:23.644 --> 00:21:24.144
Sukie Baxter: Correct.

00:21:24.164 --> 00:21:27.644
So, so if we go down one step from
your ventral vagal, we've got your

00:21:27.644 --> 00:21:30.354
sympathetic nervous system, different
branch of your nervous system,

00:21:30.354 --> 00:21:31.354
but that's your fight or flight.

00:21:31.354 --> 00:21:33.824
This is what people think of when
they think about, I'm stressed.

00:21:33.834 --> 00:21:34.894
This is tension.

00:21:34.894 --> 00:21:35.894
This is anxiety.

00:21:35.894 --> 00:21:38.064
This is agitation.

00:21:38.074 --> 00:21:41.074
This is, you know, like clenching
jaw, tight neck and shoulders, all of

00:21:41.074 --> 00:21:42.614
that stuff lives in the sympathetic.

00:21:42.924 --> 00:21:46.064
It's a, this is a mobilizing
branch of your nervous system.

00:21:46.064 --> 00:21:49.084
So it's what gets us up
and doing stuff basically.

00:21:49.434 --> 00:21:51.174
Hey, there's a threat to your survival.

00:21:51.294 --> 00:21:55.004
You better take action or you're going
to get eaten by the lion which is bad.

00:21:55.374 --> 00:21:59.964
So one step down from that, you have what
you mentioned, which is your dorsal bagel.

00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:03.029
the dorsal branch of your vagus nerve.

00:22:03.139 --> 00:22:06.569
So the dorsal vagal response or
dorsal vagal states dorsal being

00:22:06.569 --> 00:22:08.869
like a dorsal fin, meaning the back.

00:22:09.069 --> 00:22:11.879
So you've got your ventral front
dorsal back of your vagus nerve.

00:22:12.399 --> 00:22:16.279
And this is your shutdown or immobilizing
branch of your nervous system.

00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:18.319
You can think about this
like you're playing possum.

00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.219
And like you mentioned, the vagus
nerve is the parasympathetic nerve.

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:27.419
Parasympathetic can be I'm connected
to another person, but it can also be

00:22:27.419 --> 00:22:30.319
I'm shutting you down because you've
been in sympathetic for so long that

00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:32.649
we need to pull the emergency brake
or your heart's going to explode.

00:22:32.669 --> 00:22:34.469
You cannot live in
sympathetic all the time.

00:22:35.159 --> 00:22:39.119
We are meant to have a sympathetic
response to dispatch the threat.

00:22:39.529 --> 00:22:42.519
You either run away from it
and survive or you fight it.

00:22:42.889 --> 00:22:46.439
And survive, or you die which,
at which point, game over.

00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:47.569
It's supposed to be

00:22:47.569 --> 00:22:48.449
Rupert Isaacson: over pretty quickly.

00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:48.729
It's

00:22:48.729 --> 00:22:51.019
Sukie Baxter: supposed to
end, and then we discharge it.

00:22:51.139 --> 00:22:54.759
Unfortunately for humans, because
of the way we live in this very

00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.829
contrived world we have a lot of
stimulation coming at us all the time.

00:22:59.474 --> 00:23:03.494
Just a lot of noise, a lot of sensory
noise and just a lot, and we even have

00:23:03.504 --> 00:23:07.464
mental stress, which is not, I don't
think zebras sit around worrying about

00:23:07.464 --> 00:23:08.734
how they're going to pay their taxes.

00:23:09.174 --> 00:23:11.414
I don't know, I haven't really
chatted with a lot of zebras, but

00:23:11.414 --> 00:23:12.994
I think it's probably unlikely.

00:23:13.224 --> 00:23:16.654
So these things are all essentially
threats to our survival that keep us.

00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:19.039
In sympathetic quite a lot.

00:23:19.389 --> 00:23:22.359
If you stay in that state over
a prolonged period of time, it

00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:23.639
does a lot of really bad things.

00:23:23.649 --> 00:23:25.449
So short term stress is very beneficial.

00:23:25.449 --> 00:23:27.869
I think that's 1 of the
misnomers of stress is the

00:23:27.939 --> 00:23:29.049
people think it's always bad.

00:23:29.049 --> 00:23:32.129
Short term stress can actually
activate your immune system.

00:23:32.159 --> 00:23:34.689
It's how you you know,
get over being sick.

00:23:34.919 --> 00:23:38.489
It can, it does a lot of really
good things in short duration.

00:23:38.979 --> 00:23:39.359
Right.

00:23:39.399 --> 00:23:43.729
For prolonged or chronic stress is
very, very damaging to our health.

00:23:43.729 --> 00:23:46.489
It decreases our brain matter, it
unravels our telomeres, it does

00:23:46.489 --> 00:23:47.369
all kinds of horrible things.

00:23:47.379 --> 00:23:47.619
What's a telomere?

00:23:48.139 --> 00:23:48.729
A telomere.

00:23:48.729 --> 00:23:49.509
That's a good question.

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:52.409
A telomere is let me find
the actual definition because

00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:53.969
I am going to get it wrong.

00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:58.459
It is a compound structure
at the end of a chromosome.

00:23:58.489 --> 00:24:03.869
So it's a structure inside of our
nervous system that basically They

00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:09.329
protect our body from aging and
they naturally unravel over time.

00:24:09.639 --> 00:24:13.629
But what, when you have chronic
stress, they unravel more quickly.

00:24:13.649 --> 00:24:14.889
So it accelerates aging.

00:24:14.919 --> 00:24:16.949
It accelerates degeneration
within your body.

00:24:16.949 --> 00:24:20.449
It accelerates the, you know, we,
we have a natural degradation over

00:24:20.449 --> 00:24:22.469
time of our body as it copies itself.

00:24:22.659 --> 00:24:23.799
And we produce new cells.

00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.449
Each Xerox copy is a little bit
less accurate, a little more fuzzy.

00:24:27.719 --> 00:24:29.219
But when, when.

00:24:29.779 --> 00:24:30.979
We have chronic stress.

00:24:30.979 --> 00:24:34.009
Those telomeres do, as I
understand it, get shorter.

00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:35.329
How do we spell telomere?

00:24:36.209 --> 00:24:41.419
Telomere is TEL T-E-L-O-M-E-R.

00:24:43.479 --> 00:24:43.509
Rupert Isaacson: Etel.

00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:45.909
T-E-L-O-M-E-R-E?

00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:46.829
Yes.

00:24:46.949 --> 00:24:47.669
Telomere.

00:24:47.939 --> 00:24:48.479
Okay, cool.

00:24:48.569 --> 00:24:48.929
Interesting.

00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:49.409
All right.

00:24:49.469 --> 00:24:49.589
Yes.

00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:50.789
Something I didn't know.

00:24:50.849 --> 00:24:51.449
Okay, good.

00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:54.979
So by the way, just I have
a quick question to clarify.

00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.599
You're saying that the
ventral vagal nerve.

00:24:58.574 --> 00:25:01.144
is a one branch of the vagal nerve.

00:25:01.404 --> 00:25:06.564
But you see, I couldn't tell if you're
talking about the dorsal as something

00:25:06.564 --> 00:25:10.844
that's not the vagal nerve, but surely are
they not two branches of the same nerve?

00:25:11.324 --> 00:25:14.224
One is about feeling good, one is
about feeling bad, effectively.

00:25:14.924 --> 00:25:18.394
Sukie Baxter: It's, yeah, I mean, yes,
there are two branches of the same nerve.

00:25:18.554 --> 00:25:18.904
Okay.

00:25:18.914 --> 00:25:20.604
That's, that's the whole polyvagal, right?

00:25:20.604 --> 00:25:21.514
Multiple branches.

00:25:21.924 --> 00:25:23.984
Rupert Isaacson: And I've got one
down the front, one down the back.

00:25:24.244 --> 00:25:27.234
In general, my front one is
associated with feel good.

00:25:27.504 --> 00:25:31.454
In general, my back one
is associated with not.

00:25:32.044 --> 00:25:32.334
Sukie Baxter: Yes.

00:25:33.584 --> 00:25:37.894
I, I'd say, I, I'm, I'm always
hesitant to use the words good and bad.

00:25:38.334 --> 00:25:43.124
One is a little bit more pleasant and
one is a little bit more unpleasant.

00:25:43.544 --> 00:25:45.374
Rupert Isaacson: But they're
both there to, to serve the

00:25:45.374 --> 00:25:46.484
function to keep you alive.

00:25:46.614 --> 00:25:49.084
Sukie Baxter: And yeah, and,
and, and I, I think it's really

00:25:49.084 --> 00:25:50.654
important to say that there's no.

00:25:50.924 --> 00:25:51.964
State of your nervous system.

00:25:51.964 --> 00:25:52.714
That's wrong or bad.

00:25:52.734 --> 00:25:56.844
And I think this is where like, I get a
lot of people saying, well, I, I've done

00:25:56.854 --> 00:26:00.784
some work to heal my nervous system and
I felt better for a short period of time.

00:26:00.804 --> 00:26:04.394
And then and then I, I felt anxious
again, or I felt depressed again,

00:26:04.404 --> 00:26:08.254
or I felt whatever again or I felt
lethargic or I felt exhausted.

00:26:08.694 --> 00:26:10.034
And this seems wrong.

00:26:10.044 --> 00:26:13.124
Like I I'm doing it wrong, or
it isn't working or whatever.

00:26:13.124 --> 00:26:16.104
They're, you know, whatever they
determine is the story around that.

00:26:16.484 --> 00:26:18.704
We need all of our nervous system states.

00:26:18.714 --> 00:26:20.494
We, they're there for a reason.

00:26:21.104 --> 00:26:24.694
And so the goal is not to get rid of
any of these states or to live, you

00:26:24.694 --> 00:26:26.094
know, eternally in ventral vagal.

00:26:26.354 --> 00:26:27.144
That would be great.

00:26:27.234 --> 00:26:29.554
But when that lion comes around
and you're in ventral vagal,

00:26:29.554 --> 00:26:30.464
you're gonna be like, hey, dude.

00:26:31.184 --> 00:26:32.854
Yeah, pretty kitty.

00:26:32.894 --> 00:26:33.664
Can I pet you?

00:26:33.704 --> 00:26:34.744
And you're gonna get eaten.

00:26:34.754 --> 00:26:36.634
Like we need our sympathetic response.

00:26:36.634 --> 00:26:38.664
We need these aspects
of our nervous system.

00:26:39.249 --> 00:26:40.469
The goal isn't to get rid of them.

00:26:40.469 --> 00:26:41.449
The goal is just to not get

00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:42.059
Rupert Isaacson: stuck in them.

00:26:43.549 --> 00:26:43.899
Right.

00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:44.279
Got it.

00:26:44.849 --> 00:26:49.029
And as you say, you know, a shot
of adrenaline, a shot of cortisol

00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:51.819
to make you act, not think,
get yourself out of trouble.

00:26:52.459 --> 00:26:57.429
Sometimes that could even be fun if you
enjoy a dangerous sport or something like

00:26:57.469 --> 00:26:58.949
that, but you don't want to live there.

00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:04.559
Why, apart from the unraveling of
telomeres, And I also know that

00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.839
cortisol, the stress hormone, is
a neurotoxin, so that obviously is

00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.579
toxic for the body over too much time.

00:27:12.099 --> 00:27:15.429
What else does stress do over time?

00:27:15.909 --> 00:27:18.389
You mentioned this word,
friction, early on.

00:27:21.199 --> 00:27:22.279
Is it tied to that?

00:27:22.679 --> 00:27:24.849
Is stress tied to friction in the body?

00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.909
And is friction tied to this
nervous system response?

00:27:30.399 --> 00:27:35.639
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so this is where,
this is I spent a lot of years trying

00:27:35.639 --> 00:27:39.329
to figure this out because we didn't
have the information we have today.

00:27:39.459 --> 00:27:44.199
It's actually really funny to me to see
how much body mind information is around

00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.539
right now, because for years and years,
I was like, I think there's something

00:27:47.539 --> 00:27:50.829
going on with the body talking to the
mind and people thought it was crazy.

00:27:50.829 --> 00:27:52.739
They were, they just like,
they could not get there.

00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:56.369
And now it's, we take it for
granted, I think by and large

00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:57.919
there's a collective understanding.

00:27:58.379 --> 00:28:00.089
And so when you ask about like.

00:28:00.379 --> 00:28:02.249
Stress and friction.

00:28:02.959 --> 00:28:08.759
1 of so our bodies are not these just
machines that carry our brains around.

00:28:08.769 --> 00:28:12.249
They are expressing our
state of being all the time.

00:28:12.899 --> 00:28:16.259
But they are also communicating
inwardly to our brain.

00:28:16.369 --> 00:28:20.659
So the state of your body tells your brain
something about what's going on for you.

00:28:20.659 --> 00:28:23.219
It tells you, it tells
your it tells your brain.

00:28:23.229 --> 00:28:23.669
I'm safe.

00:28:23.709 --> 00:28:24.349
I'm not safe.

00:28:24.394 --> 00:28:25.044
At its essence.

00:28:25.044 --> 00:28:26.024
I'm either safe or I'm not safe.

00:28:26.024 --> 00:28:26.234
And that's

00:28:26.234 --> 00:28:29.324
Rupert Isaacson: what the brain needs to
know moment to moment as a bottom line.

00:28:29.834 --> 00:28:30.234
Sukie Baxter: Correct.

00:28:30.254 --> 00:28:32.464
And that's how it determines
your nervous system state.

00:28:32.494 --> 00:28:34.084
We don't choose our nervous system states.

00:28:34.194 --> 00:28:38.764
Our brain, it's in a non conscious
process, assesses a whole bunch of data

00:28:39.014 --> 00:28:41.194
that it's getting beneath our awareness.

00:28:41.494 --> 00:28:44.854
And it then measures that
with your past experience.

00:28:45.669 --> 00:28:49.429
Past experiences and any conditioning
you may have and kind of, you get

00:28:49.429 --> 00:28:53.239
this, like, I think of it like a little
computer printout, like, not safe, you

00:28:53.239 --> 00:28:56.369
know, so, and then there's like, someone
pushes the panic button and that's your

00:28:56.369 --> 00:28:58.089
sympathetic nervous system or safe.

00:28:58.109 --> 00:29:00.259
And someone's like, okay, we
can go into rest and digest.

00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:04.469
Let's get a good night's sleep
at a very, very basic level.

00:29:04.469 --> 00:29:10.569
It's, it's more complex than that,
but, but I just want to say, go ahead.

00:29:11.084 --> 00:29:16.404
So on the, on the question of like tension
and stress and friction, if your body is

00:29:16.414 --> 00:29:20.044
tense, which is what happens when you're
in sympathetic, then you're sort of in

00:29:20.044 --> 00:29:24.744
this like feedback loop where the tension
in your body creates a lot of friction.

00:29:24.744 --> 00:29:27.844
You're having to use a lot more
energy to literally move your body.

00:29:27.844 --> 00:29:28.084
Right?

00:29:28.084 --> 00:29:32.014
So, like, lifting your arm, you're
actually pulling against yourself.

00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.419
You're actually, you're literally
holding yourself back by having these

00:29:36.449 --> 00:29:40.239
tight muscles that create a joint that
doesn't move in a free way, so you

00:29:40.239 --> 00:29:45.219
have to use more, you have to, you
have to actually burn more calories

00:29:45.219 --> 00:29:49.009
in essence to move that arm because
you're pulling against resistance,

00:29:49.009 --> 00:29:50.899
which is your own internal resistance.

00:29:51.329 --> 00:29:53.929
Rupert Isaacson: And presumably put
more stress on the joints as well.

00:29:55.719 --> 00:29:57.849
the tendons and sinews to, yeah,

00:29:57.849 --> 00:29:59.249
Sukie Baxter: potentially, absolutely.

00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:02.779
And, and what I noticed in working with
people is that we just tend to move

00:30:02.779 --> 00:30:04.309
in these very limited patterns, right?

00:30:04.309 --> 00:30:09.269
So we only move in ways that we
habitually move in, which is because

00:30:09.269 --> 00:30:11.869
of the kind of environment we
live in, usually fairly limited.

00:30:12.209 --> 00:30:15.219
So we get these very narrow pathways
and anything outside that pathway

00:30:15.219 --> 00:30:18.759
becomes almost inaccessible,
sometimes completely inaccessible.

00:30:19.129 --> 00:30:22.909
And then that limits the amount of sensory
information that's sent to our brain and

00:30:22.909 --> 00:30:26.259
the sensory information that is sent to
our brain is one of tension and stress,

00:30:26.749 --> 00:30:29.839
which then creates more tension and
stress, which then sends more information

00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:30.999
about tension and stress, right?

00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:33.479
So it's, you're, you're getting
this kind of loop, not safe

00:30:33.909 --> 00:30:35.099
you know, not safe information.

00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:35.989
Your brain's like, I'm not safe.

00:30:36.019 --> 00:30:36.599
Let's be tense.

00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.709
We got to be prepared for,
to deal with this threat.

00:30:38.959 --> 00:30:39.419
Okay.

00:30:39.509 --> 00:30:42.249
But now we're getting more not safe
information and it's just this cycle.

00:30:42.709 --> 00:30:43.139
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:30:43.169 --> 00:30:47.479
So if I come to you with
my tense shoulders but I'm.

00:30:48.764 --> 00:30:55.504
In a state of tension internally because
I'm afraid of my neighbors because

00:30:55.524 --> 00:31:01.154
I'm reading a lot of negative social
media stuff because I'm, I've been

00:31:01.154 --> 00:31:08.784
brought up in a, in a conflicty sort
of a culture, household, blah, blah.

00:31:08.954 --> 00:31:12.114
And this has all been going on for so many
years and I don't even know any different

00:31:12.124 --> 00:31:13.624
because I've just been raised that way.

00:31:14.164 --> 00:31:17.534
And I come to you and I say, Hey Suki
can you work on my shoulder please?

00:31:17.824 --> 00:31:18.444
And.

00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:22.689
You start massaging me
and that stays tense.

00:31:22.689 --> 00:31:24.999
And then you put your elbow
on me and it stays tense.

00:31:24.999 --> 00:31:30.919
And then you and then I get up at the
end of the thing and I'm still tense.

00:31:32.459 --> 00:31:37.219
Is is that the sort of experience of
a client like that where you're going?

00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:40.649
Okay, look, something
internally now needs to change.

00:31:41.059 --> 00:31:44.269
We need to understand what
this stress response is.

00:31:44.269 --> 00:31:47.579
How do we, how do we guide
this person internally?

00:31:48.209 --> 00:31:52.929
To release that stress in
a way that's not external.

00:31:52.939 --> 00:31:56.529
No amount of, as you said, no amount
of me backing my truck repeatedly over

00:31:56.529 --> 00:32:00.979
that guy's shoulder is going to release
that shoulder, even though that's

00:32:01.449 --> 00:32:03.089
exactly what I'd be asking you to do.

00:32:03.499 --> 00:32:05.379
And then you have to charge me
for wear and tear on the truck.

00:32:08.074 --> 00:32:13.174
I can see how you would come
to need to do this research.

00:32:14.744 --> 00:32:24.224
When you then began to tell people
in your practice about this, did

00:32:24.224 --> 00:32:26.904
you find that it made sense to them?

00:32:26.904 --> 00:32:32.754
Did you find that sometimes even perhaps
hearing about this and understanding this

00:32:33.234 --> 00:32:39.124
mechanism within their own bodies, did
you find that it helped them to release

00:32:39.124 --> 00:32:44.584
their stress without you necessarily
having to manipulate physically?

00:32:45.249 --> 00:32:45.919
What was going on?

00:32:46.129 --> 00:32:49.209
Or at least, did you find that if
you did manipulate physically once

00:32:49.209 --> 00:32:53.439
you gave them this information, they
could release more meaningfully?

00:32:54.809 --> 00:32:55.429
To an extent.

00:32:55.964 --> 00:33:00.744
Sukie Baxter: I ultimately have moved away
from doing hands on work because there

00:33:00.764 --> 00:33:02.344
is just so much that needs to happen.

00:33:02.344 --> 00:33:07.524
Like, you just described so well
internally for a person in terms of

00:33:07.574 --> 00:33:11.804
them understanding their own physical
body responses, life circumstances.

00:33:11.804 --> 00:33:13.404
And this is, it can be
very complex, right?

00:33:13.404 --> 00:33:14.904
It's not, it's not a simple thing.

00:33:14.914 --> 00:33:19.474
There's a lot of circles of influence here
that that combined to affect a person's,

00:33:19.979 --> 00:33:24.039
State internal state and not all of them
are the fault of that person, right?

00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:25.749
We live within these systems as well.

00:33:25.769 --> 00:33:27.069
So there's there's personal stuff.

00:33:27.069 --> 00:33:27.909
There's cultural stuff.

00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:33.939
Anyway so I I moved away from doing the
the hands on work because I found that

00:33:33.939 --> 00:33:39.419
the context of a bodywork session is
So it's so entrenched in people's heads

00:33:39.419 --> 00:33:44.334
that i'm going to go in and basically
deposit my body In the office of this

00:33:44.334 --> 00:33:48.374
person, my brain can go on vacation
for a little while, thinking about

00:33:48.374 --> 00:33:53.594
whatever and this person will fix me
and it, it works to, to an extent.

00:33:55.044 --> 00:33:58.544
the people who are available for
it, for whatever reason, this is,

00:33:58.564 --> 00:33:59.674
this is not a judgment, right?

00:33:59.674 --> 00:34:03.044
It's because I, I do hear people say like,
Oh, well, they just weren't ready for it.

00:34:03.054 --> 00:34:06.064
You know, and it's in sort of a
judgmental way of like, Oh, this

00:34:06.074 --> 00:34:07.584
person is more evolved and more ready.

00:34:07.634 --> 00:34:08.654
That's not it at all.

00:34:09.064 --> 00:34:11.954
For whatever reason, a person
is in the, in the state to be

00:34:11.954 --> 00:34:14.814
able to receive it and actually
integrate that work and take it on.

00:34:14.824 --> 00:34:15.484
That's great.

00:34:15.784 --> 00:34:19.824
Other people aren't for whatever reason
due to no fault of their own most likely.

00:34:20.684 --> 00:34:25.184
And And when people would come in,
there was so much backing up I had

00:34:25.184 --> 00:34:30.324
to do to explain that your body and
your brain are this integrated system.

00:34:30.364 --> 00:34:32.534
And that it's not just a muscle.

00:34:32.534 --> 00:34:34.864
It's this, this muscle that's
tight in your shoulder is not just

00:34:34.864 --> 00:34:36.824
a rubber band that is too short.

00:34:36.834 --> 00:34:37.964
That needs to be pulled longer.

00:34:37.974 --> 00:34:43.244
Like, there's a whole culture in that
muscle, as you just described, right?

00:34:43.244 --> 00:34:45.204
There's a whole belief
system in your body.

00:34:45.619 --> 00:34:49.419
And there's a whole lifetime and
actually multiple lifetimes because we,

00:34:49.429 --> 00:34:52.779
we take on a lot of these things from
other generations, both from a genetic

00:34:52.779 --> 00:34:55.819
standpoint, but also from a just a
mirroring and a learning standpoint.

00:34:56.389 --> 00:35:00.299
So there's, there's whole belief systems
living in your body and my elbow in

00:35:00.299 --> 00:35:05.539
your shoulder may help if you're at
that state where you're able to release

00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.059
this tension and integrate that.

00:35:07.059 --> 00:35:08.059
But if you are not.

00:35:08.564 --> 00:35:11.394
Then we could be here all day.

00:35:11.404 --> 00:35:13.514
It's, you know, you're, and
you, most people do feel

00:35:13.514 --> 00:35:14.744
better at the end of a session.

00:35:14.764 --> 00:35:16.024
It's whether or not that work stays.

00:35:16.489 --> 00:35:16.769
Yeah.

00:35:16.889 --> 00:35:19.909
So my, my goal wasn't to have people come
in every week for the rest of their lives.

00:35:19.909 --> 00:35:22.339
My goal was to actually help people
get to where they want it to go.

00:35:22.659 --> 00:35:25.939
And I saw that for some people, the
body work was the missing piece, but

00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.179
by and large, there was so much more
education that needed to happen.

00:35:30.189 --> 00:35:36.469
And so I really transitioned into teaching
this information and, and, and helpful

00:35:36.469 --> 00:35:40.289
tools to people so that they could start
to integrate this in a different way.

00:35:40.839 --> 00:35:44.829
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so now there you
are, your livelihood is putting hands

00:35:44.829 --> 00:35:49.209
on people, so you actually rely on these
people to come trooping into your studio

00:35:49.929 --> 00:35:52.729
so that you can pay rent and so on.

00:35:53.439 --> 00:35:57.439
And then you start thinking, oh
gosh, you know, I've got to really

00:35:57.529 --> 00:35:59.589
tackle this in a different way.

00:36:00.139 --> 00:36:02.589
You go off and learn
about the nervous system.

00:36:03.109 --> 00:36:06.809
And then there you are on YouTube
with like 6 million, 5 million,

00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:08.069
4 million people looking at us.

00:36:09.699 --> 00:36:10.749
Was it that sudden?

00:36:11.499 --> 00:36:12.299
Dot, dot, dot?

00:36:12.919 --> 00:36:14.909
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it was one
of those overnight successes

00:36:14.969 --> 00:36:16.255
that took 20 years to get there.

00:36:16.255 --> 00:36:16.966
Oh good, I'm glad we can stop

00:36:16.966 --> 00:36:19.299
Rupert Isaacson: the podcast right here.

00:36:19.649 --> 00:36:24.819
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it actually, that
was a long journey because I, I was

00:36:24.819 --> 00:36:26.179
trying to teach this stuff forever.

00:36:26.179 --> 00:36:28.529
I've been trying to teach
this stuff since like 2000.

00:36:28.579 --> 00:36:31.379
I mean, honestly, since the day I started
my practice and I started figuring this

00:36:31.379 --> 00:36:32.739
out, I was trying to find the words.

00:36:33.009 --> 00:36:35.099
I was so very new and also so very young.

00:36:35.109 --> 00:36:38.879
I really didn't know how to,
you know, how to convey this.

00:36:38.889 --> 00:36:41.499
It took a while to figure out
what I Was even trying to say.

00:36:41.779 --> 00:36:45.439
So there was that journey of just
getting proficient at what I was doing

00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.869
and having enough experience with
putting my hands on people to be like,

00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:50.219
I think there's some patterns here.

00:36:50.619 --> 00:36:53.309
But then there was the experience
of trying to explain what it was.

00:36:53.309 --> 00:36:55.489
I even did with people.

00:36:55.709 --> 00:36:57.809
So there was that segment
of my journey, which as.

00:36:58.114 --> 00:37:01.004
As you've probably noticed in this
podcast, it's not easy to quantify

00:37:01.214 --> 00:37:03.924
what, because a lot of this stuff
is just not, it doesn't fit in the

00:37:03.924 --> 00:37:07.864
boxes we already have for body work
and psychology and all of that.

00:37:07.864 --> 00:37:09.484
I was like, no, they're the same thing.

00:37:09.494 --> 00:37:11.884
You know, actually a body worker
is a mental health practitioner.

00:37:11.924 --> 00:37:14.004
People were like, no, I have no
idea what you're talking about.

00:37:14.494 --> 00:37:18.254
So there was that journey of kind of
figuring out how to even talk about this.

00:37:18.584 --> 00:37:22.369
And then there was the journey
of, Trying to share this, as you

00:37:22.369 --> 00:37:23.449
said, this was my livelihood.

00:37:23.449 --> 00:37:26.689
And so, you know, I would work with
mentors and business mentors and people

00:37:26.689 --> 00:37:31.129
who were kind of helping me to get, you
know, get the word out and talk to people.

00:37:31.129 --> 00:37:32.809
And how do I, how do I communicate this?

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:34.639
And I had a lot of setbacks.

00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:39.409
I, I had a mentor who really
said something very hurtful.

00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:42.159
Where I was trying to talk about,
you know, the connection between

00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.779
pain and stress and the mind and
the psychology and the culture

00:37:44.779 --> 00:37:46.069
and all of these different things.

00:37:46.419 --> 00:37:49.039
And I was pretty far into my nervous
system journey at this point.

00:37:49.069 --> 00:37:52.649
And I was pretty sure that I was
on to something, but I also didn't

00:37:52.649 --> 00:37:54.909
know of anyone else who was really
talking about it at that time.

00:37:54.909 --> 00:37:58.869
So it was, it was, I felt like I was
bumping into a wall a lot when I talk

00:37:58.879 --> 00:38:03.249
about it and this mentor said, well, I
don't even know why a physical therapist

00:38:03.249 --> 00:38:04.629
is talking to me about my emotions.

00:38:04.629 --> 00:38:07.089
Why don't you just stick to
telling people what height to

00:38:07.089 --> 00:38:08.389
set their computer monitor at?

00:38:09.409 --> 00:38:14.309
And I was so just distraught.

00:38:14.329 --> 00:38:17.139
And I just felt so much despair
at that because for one that.

00:38:18.164 --> 00:38:20.194
It's just so it doesn't matter.

00:38:20.644 --> 00:38:21.414
It doesn't matter.

00:38:22.654 --> 00:38:25.444
If setting our computer
monitors at the right height

00:38:25.454 --> 00:38:27.124
was the solution, we'd be fine.

00:38:27.124 --> 00:38:29.754
We wouldn't need this work,
you know, because I think

00:38:29.754 --> 00:38:30.924
that information is out there.

00:38:30.924 --> 00:38:32.444
I think we can find that at this point.

00:38:32.444 --> 00:38:33.304
It's accessible.

00:38:33.614 --> 00:38:37.534
And what I wanted to do was so much
more in my, you know, in my opinion,

00:38:37.584 --> 00:38:40.154
much more profound than that, which
was really get to the core of people

00:38:40.154 --> 00:38:43.784
and really help them to live more
self actualized lives not just.

00:38:44.354 --> 00:38:47.224
To eradicate the pain that they were
feeling so they could go on living

00:38:47.224 --> 00:38:51.244
lives that they didn't really enjoy
living in unhealthy ways, which is

00:38:51.484 --> 00:38:53.714
kind of what a lot of pain relief type.

00:38:54.229 --> 00:38:56.169
Practices do is like allows

00:38:56.339 --> 00:38:58.469
Rupert Isaacson: you to keep going
with what's still hurting you.

00:38:58.889 --> 00:38:59.639
Sukie Baxter: Exactly.

00:38:59.889 --> 00:39:00.499
Exactly.

00:39:00.579 --> 00:39:04.849
Yeah It's it's basically it puts you on
this spectrum of of pain to like numbness

00:39:05.249 --> 00:39:09.689
where it's like we don't we don't then
replace the pain with joy or fulfillment

00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:11.979
or Desire or anything pleasant.

00:39:12.009 --> 00:39:14.269
Rupert Isaacson: We're just or
even a way of of moving away

00:39:14.269 --> 00:39:15.689
from that pain towards something.

00:39:15.739 --> 00:39:15.969
Yeah.

00:39:15.969 --> 00:39:16.239
Yeah.

00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:17.259
Yeah Healing.

00:39:17.269 --> 00:39:17.499
Yeah.

00:39:17.549 --> 00:39:20.379
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, so
so I was very distraught.

00:39:20.419 --> 00:39:23.749
I struggled for a long time I tried
very hard to talk about posture

00:39:23.759 --> 00:39:26.394
in a very Posture y sort of way.

00:39:26.754 --> 00:39:28.714
And it Really didn't work.

00:39:28.724 --> 00:39:31.474
I, I wrote a book, a
little ebook that I have.

00:39:31.534 --> 00:39:34.624
And I found myself like, I'm going
to write this book about posture.

00:39:35.364 --> 00:39:37.904
And as I'm writing this book, I kept
coming back to the nervous system

00:39:37.904 --> 00:39:39.324
and I was like, I can't do it.

00:39:39.324 --> 00:39:40.974
It's like, it's physically impossible.

00:39:41.094 --> 00:39:45.204
I can't talk about how to sit in a chair
without talking about your nervous system.

00:39:45.734 --> 00:39:50.194
And so I, I had started putting things
out on YouTube and I was kind of like

00:39:50.214 --> 00:39:53.524
dabbling in it here and there and when did

00:39:53.524 --> 00:39:54.684
Rupert Isaacson: you start
messing around with YouTube?

00:39:55.364 --> 00:39:59.114
Sukie Baxter: So I actually put a couple
videos out, like, way, way back in 2009

00:39:59.674 --> 00:40:03.104
and then I abandoned it for a very long
time, like, a decade, and then I was like,

00:40:03.304 --> 00:40:07.474
maybe I'll go back to that YouTube thing
maybe around 2018, I want to say, ish,

00:40:07.864 --> 00:40:10.174
and kind of was dabbling in it and then.

00:40:11.434 --> 00:40:16.504
I just sort of started to decide that
I wanted to experiment a little bit.

00:40:16.524 --> 00:40:20.524
So I was like, I'm going to put out videos
that are more on the nervous system side.

00:40:21.074 --> 00:40:22.524
I just, I need to get this out.

00:40:22.544 --> 00:40:25.354
I'm having these conversations one on
one, like these conversations would

00:40:25.354 --> 00:40:26.474
come up with my body work clients.

00:40:26.474 --> 00:40:26.974
They would come up.

00:40:27.384 --> 00:40:30.864
While I was working on horses and I
was talking to the owner about nervous

00:40:30.874 --> 00:40:34.584
systems and why I didn't need to pound
on their horse to get actual change, why

00:40:34.584 --> 00:40:38.194
their horses movement would change with
what looked like me, just kind of gently

00:40:38.194 --> 00:40:40.514
touching their, you know, their animal.

00:40:40.514 --> 00:40:42.454
And they're like, well, how is this,
you know, how is this happening in

00:40:42.454 --> 00:40:45.374
their horse's eyes or, you know,
doing that third eyelid blank and big

00:40:45.374 --> 00:40:47.184
yawns and, you know, signs of release.

00:40:48.014 --> 00:40:51.814
So these conversations were coming up over
and over and I was like, I just want to,

00:40:52.104 --> 00:40:57.224
I want to try having this conversation,
not on a quiet secret one to one level.

00:40:57.629 --> 00:41:00.069
But like, let's just try
putting it out there more

00:41:00.069 --> 00:41:02.389
widely and it was an experiment.

00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:09.429
And I found that there actually was
quite a lot of interest in that material.

00:41:09.509 --> 00:41:15.729
So, to my surprise, it was exactly what
everyone told me not to talk about.

00:41:16.849 --> 00:41:20.229
Don't talk about the connection
between the body and trauma and.

00:41:20.764 --> 00:41:24.814
anxiety and mental health and
your physical self and all of

00:41:24.814 --> 00:41:25.844
these things that are connected.

00:41:26.124 --> 00:41:26.674
Don't do that.

00:41:26.674 --> 00:41:27.674
No one's going to understand it.

00:41:27.714 --> 00:41:33.034
And it was when I did that exact thing
that everyone told me not to do, that

00:41:34.344 --> 00:41:36.144
it actually connected with people.

00:41:36.824 --> 00:41:39.674
Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting
how many people on this podcast

00:41:40.504 --> 00:41:42.154
say something similar to that.

00:41:42.214 --> 00:41:49.074
It was when I did what everyone said
not to do that things began to move.

00:41:49.514 --> 00:41:50.984
I, I know that's been true in my life.

00:41:53.234 --> 00:41:55.544
When I was going to go across
Mongolia with my kid and everyone

00:41:55.544 --> 00:41:56.694
said he was completely nuts.

00:41:57.284 --> 00:41:59.894
And it's just in my gut, it's like,
no, no, it's, it's the right thing,

00:41:59.914 --> 00:42:03.094
but I totally understand why you think
it's nuts, because on the face of it,

00:42:03.214 --> 00:42:05.434
it is a bit nuts, but life is nuts.

00:42:05.474 --> 00:42:12.244
So, you know, I, that, that bold step it
seems that perhaps your own sympathetic

00:42:12.344 --> 00:42:17.714
nervous system had gotten to a point
where you were feeling maybe that you

00:42:17.724 --> 00:42:21.554
had Your foot on the brake and the
accelerator at the same time just like

00:42:21.554 --> 00:42:29.794
these clients who were in distress with
you were and Do you think it's true

00:42:29.794 --> 00:42:34.604
that you felt in some way even if that
was instinctive and unconscious that?

00:42:35.334 --> 00:42:36.974
Until you sorted that out in yourself.

00:42:36.984 --> 00:42:44.584
You couldn't really help them in
the way that you would like to And

00:42:44.584 --> 00:42:53.704
then that happened on a public forum
Do you think that that was also

00:42:53.704 --> 00:42:55.414
part of what was motivating you?

00:42:56.814 --> 00:43:00.124
A sort of feeling of, well,
physician heal thyself sort of thing.

00:43:00.344 --> 00:43:05.004
If I can't, how can I tell
these people how to set

00:43:05.004 --> 00:43:06.254
themselves free from the inside?

00:43:06.974 --> 00:43:09.544
If I myself, I'm sort of
feeling frustrated like this.

00:43:11.204 --> 00:43:11.484
Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

00:43:11.574 --> 00:43:14.274
If I'm not letting myself be
who I am, then how can I tell

00:43:14.304 --> 00:43:15.424
other people how to do that?

00:43:16.874 --> 00:43:20.824
So, yeah, you know, there's a
really great saying, and I don't

00:43:20.824 --> 00:43:21.814
know who originally said it.

00:43:21.824 --> 00:43:23.564
I'm sure it wasn't the
person I heard it from.

00:43:24.139 --> 00:43:25.779
But it's don't talk about it, be about it.

00:43:27.139 --> 00:43:30.609
And I, I really, I find it That was God,

00:43:30.609 --> 00:43:31.239
Rupert Isaacson: wasn't that God?

00:43:31.279 --> 00:43:32.219
Didn't God say that?

00:43:32.259 --> 00:43:33.149
I have no idea,

00:43:33.249 --> 00:43:33.779
Sukie Baxter: possibly.

00:43:34.369 --> 00:43:38.369
But I think that I had to be,
you know, be that example.

00:43:38.369 --> 00:43:41.519
I had to go out and do the thing and
it was, it was really terrifying.

00:43:41.539 --> 00:43:44.069
I, you know, I get a calm, I
get lots of comments on YouTube

00:43:44.069 --> 00:43:45.509
because YouTube is YouTube.

00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:48.069
Many, many, many, many
wonderful positive comments.

00:43:48.069 --> 00:43:48.669
And I love those.

00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.489
But of course, as many people
do, I see the negative ones and

00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.529
they hit me more intensely than.

00:43:55.154 --> 00:43:55.954
The positive ones.

00:43:56.004 --> 00:43:58.014
Rupert Isaacson: The old
sympathetic nervous system reaction.

00:43:58.894 --> 00:43:59.944
Sukie Baxter: Looking for those threats.

00:44:00.304 --> 00:44:03.584
And one of the comments that I get that
does make me laugh is people say, well,

00:44:03.584 --> 00:44:05.214
she really likes to hear herself talk.

00:44:05.224 --> 00:44:09.244
And I just, I always chuckle to
myself because the reality is I hate

00:44:09.324 --> 00:44:10.784
watching those videos of myself.

00:44:10.794 --> 00:44:13.604
I don't actually love being
the center of attention.

00:44:13.984 --> 00:44:16.564
I don't love a big crowd around me.

00:44:16.564 --> 00:44:19.694
I'm kind of a, like not a hermit,
but I'm, I'm an introvert.

00:44:19.734 --> 00:44:22.504
I, you know, I, I'm not
somebody to go in and.

00:44:22.834 --> 00:44:24.684
You know, take over a party or something.

00:44:24.704 --> 00:44:28.574
And so it was hard to get out there
and start talking about this stuff,

00:44:28.584 --> 00:44:33.374
especially at a time where it really
wasn't like, so this is about 4 years ago.

00:44:33.374 --> 00:44:35.434
Now that I really started
talking about this.

00:44:35.434 --> 00:44:40.134
I've been talking about it for like, 10
years or more, but that I really kind of

00:44:40.144 --> 00:44:41.504
was like, okay, I'm going to do the thing.

00:44:42.034 --> 00:44:45.714
It was about four years ago and
things have dramatically changed.

00:44:45.714 --> 00:44:47.594
There's so much more content out there.

00:44:47.594 --> 00:44:51.624
That's really similar in tone and, you
know, and in material, like where we're

00:44:51.624 --> 00:44:55.524
talking about how the body and the
mind are interconnected and related.

00:44:55.984 --> 00:44:58.804
But at that time, no one
was really talking about it.

00:44:58.924 --> 00:45:01.964
And I didn't know if everyone
was going to tell me I was crazy.

00:45:02.609 --> 00:45:05.669
I mean, I could have made those YouTube
videos and we could be sitting here and

00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:07.329
like three people could have watched them.

00:45:07.329 --> 00:45:08.209
I have no idea.

00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:13.629
Rupert Isaacson: Were you surprised
by how many people flocked to them?

00:45:14.089 --> 00:45:15.399
And why do you think they did?

00:45:15.399 --> 00:45:17.339
Sukie Baxter: Well, I think
it's a combination of things.

00:45:17.349 --> 00:45:21.099
I think one, the timing was right because
it was in the middle of the pandemic.

00:45:21.649 --> 00:45:24.349
So we were all very stressed and
people were looking for help and

00:45:24.349 --> 00:45:26.979
we didn't have a lot of resources
because we couldn't go to our, you

00:45:26.979 --> 00:45:28.279
know, I mean, you could get therapy.

00:45:28.589 --> 00:45:30.979
From zoom, but you couldn't
go to your therapist.

00:45:30.979 --> 00:45:33.289
You couldn't go to your
massage therapist by and large.

00:45:33.339 --> 00:45:35.359
There was a lot of, you know,
things were shut down or very

00:45:35.359 --> 00:45:37.429
limited staffing was very low.

00:45:37.499 --> 00:45:38.799
Everyone was, you know, freaking out.

00:45:38.799 --> 00:45:40.079
It was a huge pattern interrupt.

00:45:40.089 --> 00:45:41.949
You know, our whole lives
got turned upside down.

00:45:42.379 --> 00:45:47.399
And I was no exception to that, but so,
so people were looking for resources.

00:45:47.709 --> 00:45:51.199
So that was 1 thing, but you, you
mentioned, I think, at the beginning

00:45:51.209 --> 00:45:52.899
that your content can be good.

00:45:53.364 --> 00:45:55.554
And then people don't see it, right?

00:45:55.554 --> 00:45:57.884
So you can have really great
videos and there are people who

00:45:57.884 --> 00:46:00.364
have really great videos out
there, but no one's watched them.

00:46:00.744 --> 00:46:05.674
And the reasoning is that there are
ways to figure out what people are

00:46:05.674 --> 00:46:09.354
looking for and position your video
so that it's the thing that they

00:46:09.354 --> 00:46:10.484
find when they're looking for it.

00:46:11.524 --> 00:46:13.734
And I was able to, to do that.

00:46:13.744 --> 00:46:14.684
And I, Thanks.

00:46:14.934 --> 00:46:17.914
You know, I, I did it strategically
and I was fortunate in that.

00:46:17.914 --> 00:46:20.714
I happened to land on some
things that people were actually

00:46:20.724 --> 00:46:22.184
looking for at that time.

00:46:22.194 --> 00:46:23.214
So it, it kind of

00:46:23.214 --> 00:46:23.844
Rupert Isaacson: blew up.

00:46:24.349 --> 00:46:25.839
So you say you did it strategically.

00:46:25.839 --> 00:46:27.819
Did you do it strategically
from the get go?

00:46:28.209 --> 00:46:31.769
Like, did you sit there
I looked at a wiki of Mr.

00:46:31.789 --> 00:46:33.859
Beast the other day and
if you don't know who Mr.

00:46:33.889 --> 00:46:37.569
Beast is these days, I mean,
you're probably, like, one of three

00:46:37.589 --> 00:46:39.509
on the planet, but nonetheless,
if you don't know who Mr.

00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:44.394
Beast is, he's this incredibly successful
YouTuber who has made billions and

00:46:44.474 --> 00:46:45.944
given a lot of it away, actually.

00:46:46.454 --> 00:46:47.574
Planted lots of trees and things.

00:46:47.574 --> 00:46:51.344
And I remember him reading this thing
where he said, I sat for five years in a

00:46:51.344 --> 00:46:57.304
room eating Uber Eats, only figuring out,
learning how to make videos go viral.

00:46:57.334 --> 00:47:00.164
I became obsessed with it in an
unhealthy way, but it sort of paid off.

00:47:00.324 --> 00:47:00.964
That's what he said.

00:47:01.264 --> 00:47:02.614
Did you do something like that?

00:47:02.654 --> 00:47:07.144
Or did you just start putting stuff
out there that you were interested

00:47:07.144 --> 00:47:10.424
in and thought other people should
mention or was it something in between?

00:47:11.724 --> 00:47:13.104
Sukie Baxter: It was a
little bit in between.

00:47:13.474 --> 00:47:16.034
I had a strategy of I'm going
to, I'm going to put different

00:47:16.054 --> 00:47:17.154
things out and see what hits.

00:47:17.184 --> 00:47:21.314
So I would make videos on different
topics because I didn't know what

00:47:21.324 --> 00:47:22.554
people were gravitating towards.

00:47:22.564 --> 00:47:25.284
So, I would do some research
and there, there are ways.

00:47:25.294 --> 00:47:26.234
So there are tools.

00:47:26.254 --> 00:47:29.404
If I think people don't know that
these things exist, there are tools.

00:47:29.894 --> 00:47:32.604
That will tell you what people
are searching for on Google and

00:47:32.854 --> 00:47:34.204
YouTube is a Google product.

00:47:34.614 --> 00:47:37.704
So there are tools to, to become
aware of, like, how many people are

00:47:37.704 --> 00:47:44.274
looking for a term on, you know, on
social media or on Google and that

00:47:44.274 --> 00:47:45.724
tells you what the interest level is.

00:47:45.754 --> 00:47:46.744
And then there are.

00:47:47.274 --> 00:47:51.014
People who figured out
ways to name your video.

00:47:51.014 --> 00:47:54.064
Well, so basically there's, there's lots
of elements, but like the title is one of

00:47:54.064 --> 00:47:58.494
them and there's other elements as well to
position your video in a way that YouTube

00:47:58.504 --> 00:48:02.934
knows Hey, when someone's searching for
this thing, this video is kind of like,

00:48:02.934 --> 00:48:04.684
I can, I can do the matchmaker here.

00:48:04.874 --> 00:48:06.644
Like I can, I can give them.

00:48:06.994 --> 00:48:09.334
This video content, because
that's what they're looking for.

00:48:10.104 --> 00:48:13.834
Now, if your video is terrible or like
you spend, you know, five minutes of

00:48:13.834 --> 00:48:16.714
rambling on maybe the last part of
your video is great, but five minutes

00:48:16.714 --> 00:48:19.014
at the beginning, are you rambling
on about something irrelevant?

00:48:19.674 --> 00:48:20.634
People aren't going to watch it.

00:48:20.634 --> 00:48:22.054
And YouTube's going to be
like, ah, that didn't work.

00:48:22.094 --> 00:48:22.674
Let's try it.

00:48:22.814 --> 00:48:24.874
Let's serve them up a different video.

00:48:24.874 --> 00:48:25.044
Right?

00:48:25.044 --> 00:48:26.794
So there there's lots of elements here.

00:48:27.084 --> 00:48:31.644
But there are ways to be strategic
about when you make your video, making

00:48:31.644 --> 00:48:34.724
sure that you're actually creating a
resource that people are looking for.

00:48:35.094 --> 00:48:38.744
So I, I was looking to balance
that when I would do my research.

00:48:38.754 --> 00:48:41.194
I was like, okay, I have
something I want to share.

00:48:41.934 --> 00:48:44.364
How does it match with what
people are looking for?

00:48:44.364 --> 00:48:46.014
What's the Venn diagram here?

00:48:46.194 --> 00:48:46.464
And you

00:48:46.464 --> 00:48:47.634
Rupert Isaacson: did that from the get go.

00:48:47.634 --> 00:48:53.194
You, you, you thought, I actually want
this to go out as wide as possible.

00:48:53.524 --> 00:48:57.484
I'm going to research how to make
a video go out as wide as possible

00:48:57.484 --> 00:48:58.864
on YouTube before I make it.

00:48:59.329 --> 00:49:00.369
Sukie Baxter: Not exactly.

00:49:00.399 --> 00:49:02.969
I didn't really want it to
go out as wide as possible.

00:49:03.049 --> 00:49:04.419
I wanted people to see it.

00:49:04.439 --> 00:49:07.999
I wanted to know, you know, I thought,
I thought a few hundred people, maybe

00:49:07.999 --> 00:49:10.279
a few thousand people would watch it.

00:49:10.629 --> 00:49:13.319
I didn't think, you know,
5 million people would

00:49:13.319 --> 00:49:14.019
Rupert Isaacson: watch a video.

00:49:14.019 --> 00:49:15.767
Why do you think 5
million people did watch

00:49:15.767 --> 00:49:15.994
Sukie Baxter: it?

00:49:16.384 --> 00:49:20.164
Because it was the thing they were
looking for and because they watched

00:49:20.394 --> 00:49:23.614
because of the way so I I actually
worked with mentors like so when

00:49:23.614 --> 00:49:25.854
I want to learn something, I find
a mentor and I learn it from them.

00:49:25.854 --> 00:49:27.494
And this is true in every area of my life.

00:49:27.504 --> 00:49:28.694
I go find somebody and learn.

00:49:28.914 --> 00:49:30.744
I'm like way past the point.

00:49:30.884 --> 00:49:34.134
Well, I still read books, but I'm way past
the point of self study at this point.

00:49:34.484 --> 00:49:35.234
I want to learn something.

00:49:35.244 --> 00:49:36.814
I'm like, you seem to
know what you're doing.

00:49:36.884 --> 00:49:37.314
Teach me.

00:49:38.034 --> 00:49:40.024
So I found people who are
really good at YouTube.

00:49:40.909 --> 00:49:42.199
And they taught me us.

00:49:42.404 --> 00:49:42.864
How did you find them?

00:49:43.054 --> 00:49:44.344
They use, how did you find them?

00:49:44.374 --> 00:49:48.439
They, they were a referral from somebody
else that I knew, from somebody else.

00:49:48.439 --> 00:49:49.444
Like I So you

00:49:49.984 --> 00:49:52.549
Rupert Isaacson: did, you know some people
who, who had been successful on YouTube

00:49:52.549 --> 00:49:54.589
and say, who do you, who would I talk

00:49:54.589 --> 00:49:54.649
Sukie Baxter: to?

00:49:54.664 --> 00:49:57.289
They, they were, they are successful.

00:49:57.294 --> 00:50:00.319
The people that I followed,
I liked their ethos.

00:50:00.989 --> 00:50:03.479
I, I like them as people, there's lots of

00:50:03.829 --> 00:50:06.569
Rupert Isaacson: people that you were, you
were subscribing to their YouTube channel.

00:50:07.489 --> 00:50:08.539
Sukie Baxter: Actually I wasn't.

00:50:08.709 --> 00:50:13.609
They were, I was referred to them, so
I had not subscribed to their channel.

00:50:13.889 --> 00:50:21.119
I was referred to them by a, it was
somebody in another community of creators

00:50:21.219 --> 00:50:25.279
and business people that they were
like, this is, it was somebody else.

00:50:25.944 --> 00:50:29.574
In that community had done YouTube had
taught YouTube previously and doesn't

00:50:29.574 --> 00:50:33.554
anymore and they were like, this is the
person I send people to now and I went

00:50:33.784 --> 00:50:37.234
Rupert Isaacson: online or this was
someone you knew in your up there in the

00:50:37.234 --> 00:50:38.674
Pacific Northwest where you live where

00:50:38.674 --> 00:50:39.704
Sukie Baxter: people go online.

00:50:40.004 --> 00:50:40.864
Okay, it's all online.

00:50:40.894 --> 00:50:42.104
Yeah, it's an online community.

00:50:42.634 --> 00:50:42.944
Okay,

00:50:42.944 --> 00:50:47.154
Rupert Isaacson: so you joined
an online community of people

00:50:47.434 --> 00:50:50.204
interested in creating videos around.

00:50:51.549 --> 00:50:54.989
the subjects that you were interested in
or was it some different online community?

00:50:55.219 --> 00:50:56.849
Sukie Baxter: It was a
different online community.

00:50:56.869 --> 00:50:59.809
It was a more of like a business
online community where people

00:50:59.889 --> 00:51:03.539
who have who have businesses get
together and share resources and

00:51:03.549 --> 00:51:07.519
information and help each other out
with, you know, I need to do this.

00:51:07.859 --> 00:51:08.999
I need to do X, Y, Z thing.

00:51:08.999 --> 00:51:11.949
What tools do I use or who
knows somebody I can hire to

00:51:11.949 --> 00:51:12.979
do this, that kind of a thing.

00:51:13.219 --> 00:51:14.839
Is that still exist?

00:51:15.429 --> 00:51:15.839
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, yeah.

00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:16.679
What's it?

00:51:16.709 --> 00:51:17.279
What's it called?

00:51:18.389 --> 00:51:21.799
Sukie Baxter: It's somebody's private
community, so I wouldn't necessarily share

00:51:21.799 --> 00:51:26.589
it, but I've been a member of many, many,
many, I've always, but you must've found

00:51:26.589 --> 00:51:28.189
Rupert Isaacson: your
way there somehow, right?

00:51:28.259 --> 00:51:32.759
So how did you, if someone's listening
and going, well, gosh, I would like

00:51:32.759 --> 00:51:37.249
to become, you know, part of a mentor
community like that, a mentoring community

00:51:37.429 --> 00:51:40.509
like that, what would be the steps that
they would need to take in order to

00:51:40.509 --> 00:51:41.924
find their way to something like that?

00:51:42.534 --> 00:51:44.464
Sukie Baxter: That's a,
that's a really good question.

00:51:44.554 --> 00:51:48.634
And the reason I'm so hesitant
to say more is because the online

00:51:48.634 --> 00:51:53.014
community, the online business
coaching and mentoring community is

00:51:53.064 --> 00:51:55.944
it's a bit of a minefield to navigate.

00:51:55.954 --> 00:52:01.534
There's a lot of really manipulative
practices that happen in that space.

00:52:01.574 --> 00:52:03.504
There's a lot of people
calling that out right now too.

00:52:03.504 --> 00:52:05.004
So there's some really good conversations.

00:52:05.234 --> 00:52:09.564
But like you, you can, on the internet,
you can find a business coach and like.

00:52:11.134 --> 00:52:13.834
So, so they're, they're out there.

00:52:13.854 --> 00:52:14.594
It's just that,

00:52:14.594 --> 00:52:19.964
Rupert Isaacson: so what's the, well,
let's, let's stick around on this topic.

00:52:19.964 --> 00:52:22.004
Cause it's, I think
it's useful for people.

00:52:22.004 --> 00:52:24.694
There'll be people driving their
cars right now that want to do this.

00:52:24.694 --> 00:52:29.734
And, but don't know how if you were
to, what, what, what would be the.

00:52:31.194 --> 00:52:34.784
Way to know if it's a good business
coach, what would be your test questions?

00:52:35.074 --> 00:52:39.604
For example, i'll give you people often
ask me about two things that they'll say

00:52:39.604 --> 00:52:43.754
to me because you know, I teach dressage
with Horses and so people will say how do

00:52:43.754 --> 00:52:47.824
I know if it's a good dressage teacher and
i'll say well There's two test questions.

00:52:48.084 --> 00:52:49.904
How do you teach your horse?

00:52:50.274 --> 00:52:54.774
The language is important piaf, which is
a particular movement that's important in

00:52:54.774 --> 00:52:59.754
that thing, and they must be able to tell
you in a more or less understandable way.

00:53:00.364 --> 00:53:01.694
And can I ride him?

00:53:02.194 --> 00:53:03.314
Meaning, can I sit on him?

00:53:03.644 --> 00:53:05.344
Have you got a horse that can show me?

00:53:05.344 --> 00:53:09.584
And if the answer is something vague and
no, you need to keep going until you find

00:53:09.584 --> 00:53:11.054
someone who says, Oh, I did it like this.

00:53:11.054 --> 00:53:11.714
And yes, you can.

00:53:11.714 --> 00:53:12.284
He's over here.

00:53:12.944 --> 00:53:17.174
Similarly, people know my background
with, you know, shamans and healing.

00:53:17.464 --> 00:53:19.184
And they say, well, how do
you, how do you find your way?

00:53:19.184 --> 00:53:23.559
Not, you know, how do you not get
Involved with the charlatan and I'll say,

00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:28.779
well, usually the really good shamans
are in very remote areas of the world.

00:53:29.309 --> 00:53:32.309
And they're so busy
healing their communities.

00:53:32.309 --> 00:53:35.229
You, you wouldn't necessarily,
you wouldn't find them online.

00:53:35.619 --> 00:53:39.439
But what I often do if I'm going to
a place where there's places, parts

00:53:39.439 --> 00:53:42.979
of the world where I just know the
people because I was partly brought

00:53:42.979 --> 00:53:46.529
up there and partly because of my
work with journalism and human rights.

00:53:46.809 --> 00:53:47.589
And then I might.

00:53:48.234 --> 00:53:52.274
Actually give someone a contact but
let's say I need to go to a part of

00:53:52.274 --> 00:53:55.774
the world where I don't know anybody
I take a counterintuitive process.

00:53:56.044 --> 00:54:00.864
I will often contact a Listen up guys if
you're looking for a shaman I will often

00:54:00.864 --> 00:54:08.414
contact a hospital or a clinic in a remote
tribal area Like let's say I wanted to

00:54:08.454 --> 00:54:13.624
go up to alaska and find a healer I would
look for a hospital in a native american

00:54:13.624 --> 00:54:20.419
reservation up there and I would contact
The administrator and I would say by email

00:54:20.549 --> 00:54:24.109
and I'd send an email saying have you
got a funny old guy or a funny old lady

00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:29.459
who comes on the wards from the local
community and does odd things and the

00:54:29.459 --> 00:54:30.929
people just seem to sort of get better.

00:54:31.269 --> 00:54:34.229
And frequently I'll get a
response from the hospital

00:54:34.229 --> 00:54:35.999
administrator saying actually yes.

00:54:36.409 --> 00:54:38.139
I mean sometimes they won't
come back to me at all.

00:54:38.319 --> 00:54:41.519
Sometimes they'll tell me to bugger off
but sometimes they'll say actually yes.

00:54:42.434 --> 00:54:45.394
And then I'll say, oh, and then
we'll begin a conversation and I'll

00:54:45.394 --> 00:54:49.914
find my way to something that way,
but there's a sort of step by step

00:54:50.584 --> 00:54:54.594
onion peeling back thing happening.

00:54:54.924 --> 00:54:58.074
So if someone is wanting to find
their way through that minefield that

00:54:58.074 --> 00:55:01.574
you're talking about what do you think
would be some sound steps for them to

00:55:01.574 --> 00:55:02.794
follow and questions for them to ask?

00:55:04.504 --> 00:55:07.864
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, I don't think it's
a straight at least I haven't figured

00:55:07.864 --> 00:55:12.564
out is a straight ahead way for them
to figure it out as clear as that.

00:55:13.244 --> 00:55:17.134
I think that it can be really
helpful to speak to their students.

00:55:18.134 --> 00:55:23.114
I personally, if I'm looking at
someone, I will kind of stalk

00:55:23.134 --> 00:55:25.034
their social media for a while.

00:55:25.034 --> 00:55:30.614
I like to look at the testimonials on
their pages and then Google those people

00:55:30.614 --> 00:55:34.184
and go and, and kind of investigate
like what those people are up to.

00:55:34.544 --> 00:55:34.634
Mm-Hmm.

00:55:34.874 --> 00:55:38.204
, in particular to find out like,
you know, are, are all of their

00:55:38.204 --> 00:55:42.014
clients kind of the same , you know,
are they all doing the same thing?

00:55:42.424 --> 00:55:42.514
Yeah.

00:55:42.594 --> 00:55:45.624
And then one of the biggest things
is if you come across a business

00:55:45.624 --> 00:55:49.104
coach who has a lot of clients
who are also business coaches.

00:55:49.854 --> 00:55:51.904
And everyone's kind of teaching
people how to make money.

00:55:52.154 --> 00:55:53.014
That's a big red flag.

00:55:53.534 --> 00:55:57.114
Because there's sort of this weird,
it's not MLM, but it's MLM like.

00:55:57.224 --> 00:55:58.114
It's a bit MLM y.

00:55:58.144 --> 00:55:58.394
Yeah.

00:55:58.414 --> 00:55:58.784
Yeah.

00:55:58.814 --> 00:56:03.744
Where it's like somebody who wasn't,
wasn't very successful often.

00:56:03.774 --> 00:56:04.184
Not always.

00:56:04.184 --> 00:56:05.054
Sounds

00:56:05.054 --> 00:56:05.854
Rupert Isaacson: like a midlife rapper.

00:56:05.964 --> 00:56:06.004
Sorry.

00:56:06.054 --> 00:56:09.644
Sukie Baxter: Somebody who wasn't maybe
that great at building their own, you

00:56:09.644 --> 00:56:13.104
know, business then decides to teach other
people how to build their businesses.

00:56:13.104 --> 00:56:15.474
But the only thing they really know
how to do is how to teach people how to

00:56:15.474 --> 00:56:17.034
teach people how to build businesses.

00:56:17.044 --> 00:56:20.754
So then their clients start to
teach people how to make money too.

00:56:21.014 --> 00:56:23.584
And it just becomes like, everyone's
almost saying the same thing.

00:56:23.584 --> 00:56:26.484
So if you, if you start looking
around somebody's, you know,

00:56:26.484 --> 00:56:29.314
business and at their clients, and
it seems like a big echo chamber and

00:56:29.314 --> 00:56:30.874
everyone's kind of saying the same.

00:56:31.694 --> 00:56:36.084
thing in that regard, then
that's, it's not necessarily a

00:56:36.104 --> 00:56:38.094
solid no, but it's a red flag.

00:56:38.304 --> 00:56:43.514
And then for me, I am at this point
in my work, really intentional about

00:56:43.514 --> 00:56:47.264
choosing people who acknowledge
the systems in which we live.

00:56:47.334 --> 00:56:52.434
So I will not work with people who
have this sort of ethos of like,

00:56:52.564 --> 00:56:55.144
if you just change your thoughts,
the whole, you know, like all of

00:56:55.144 --> 00:56:56.264
your problems are in your thoughts.

00:56:57.044 --> 00:56:58.594
Because that's just simply not true.

00:56:58.634 --> 00:57:01.514
We, you know, there are
limitations and, and situations

00:57:01.514 --> 00:57:02.664
that people find themselves in.

00:57:02.664 --> 00:57:05.094
There's, there's all kinds of
things that happen to people.

00:57:05.314 --> 00:57:07.884
There's all kinds of different
circumstances that people find themselves

00:57:07.954 --> 00:57:11.987
in that mean that their resources and
ability to do something are important.

00:57:12.384 --> 00:57:14.124
You know, different than somebody else's.

00:57:14.154 --> 00:57:16.414
So if someone just has this
sort of like, well, if you have

00:57:16.414 --> 00:57:18.464
problems, it's all in your thoughts
and you just need to journal.

00:57:19.004 --> 00:57:20.654
It's not for me at this point.

00:57:21.774 --> 00:57:22.274
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:57:22.284 --> 00:57:26.554
So, you through these researchers,
you found your way to some mentors.

00:57:28.014 --> 00:57:35.594
What if you were mentoring the
listeners now, what is the way that

00:57:35.654 --> 00:57:41.714
you create a title for your YouTube
video that will position it, as

00:57:41.714 --> 00:57:46.064
you said, in a way that people have
a sporting chance of finding it.

00:57:47.574 --> 00:57:51.764
Sukie Baxter: So there is something
called search engine optimization.

00:57:52.364 --> 00:57:53.774
It's been around for a long time.

00:57:53.814 --> 00:57:54.524
It's not new.

00:57:54.534 --> 00:57:56.144
It's been around since
Google has been around.

00:57:56.754 --> 00:58:00.974
Basically it is figuring out what
people are searching for on Google.

00:58:01.264 --> 00:58:03.714
It's people don't lie to Google, right?

00:58:03.714 --> 00:58:06.044
So they type their actual
questions into the search bar.

00:58:06.314 --> 00:58:08.804
And the funny thing is that a lot of
people have the exact same question

00:58:08.804 --> 00:58:09.834
and they type it in the same way.

00:58:10.314 --> 00:58:15.544
Okay, and so there are tools that that you
can use, as I mentioned to know how many

00:58:15.544 --> 00:58:16.924
people are searching for these things.

00:58:16.954 --> 00:58:19.164
So the 1st thing that I
do is I try to figure out.

00:58:19.529 --> 00:58:23.479
I might have an idea, a
general concept for a video.

00:58:23.769 --> 00:58:26.959
Okay, so I'm going to take that
general concept and I'm going to go

00:58:26.989 --> 00:58:29.969
look at Google to see what are the
questions that people are actually

00:58:29.969 --> 00:58:35.829
asking about this, and then I will
use that information to craft a title.

00:58:35.989 --> 00:58:36.819
There's no guarantee.

00:58:37.289 --> 00:58:37.459
Right.

00:58:37.459 --> 00:58:40.709
We none of us actually knows what
the algorithm is that YouTube uses.

00:58:40.959 --> 00:58:44.259
So you might have what seems like a
bang up title and it doesn't get picked

00:58:44.259 --> 00:58:47.129
up or sometimes it doesn't get picked
up for three months or six months.

00:58:47.129 --> 00:58:47.899
And then all of a sudden it just.

00:58:48.044 --> 00:58:56.134
That's where it starts.

00:58:56.614 --> 00:59:02.894
And then, then from there, once you've
got your title, you want to take

00:59:02.894 --> 00:59:05.694
into account the related questions
that people are asking about that

00:59:05.714 --> 00:59:09.464
and make sure you incorporate that
into the actual body of the video.

00:59:09.464 --> 00:59:12.914
So the things you're saying, So, some of
my videos, I literally write them out.

00:59:13.229 --> 00:59:17.329
a script word for word and say them
because I can't necessarily think

00:59:17.329 --> 00:59:20.169
when a camera is pointed at me so it's
helpful for me to just have it there.

00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:24.819
Sometimes I will do bullet points
and I will, I will present that way.

00:59:25.069 --> 00:59:29.259
But in all, whether I do bullet points
or script it word for word, I'm making

00:59:29.259 --> 00:59:33.129
sure that the way that I've structured
the outline of this video is to answer

00:59:33.129 --> 00:59:35.229
the kinds of questions that people have.

00:59:35.409 --> 00:59:39.134
And that doesn't mean That I won't say
something like, well, people ask this

00:59:39.134 --> 00:59:42.044
question and actually I want to say, I
want to tell you why that question is

00:59:42.044 --> 00:59:45.354
not helpful, or I want to tell you why we
need to be asking a different question,

00:59:45.384 --> 00:59:48.344
because if you understand this, then
it changes the way you understand the

00:59:48.344 --> 00:59:50.264
whole challenge or something like that.

00:59:50.444 --> 00:59:53.934
But I want to address the fact that
people have that question so that

00:59:53.944 --> 00:59:56.564
they're, they're getting their,
they're getting the resource they need.

00:59:57.024 --> 00:59:58.024
Rupert Isaacson: What is the tool?

00:59:58.034 --> 01:00:02.614
What are, what are these search engine
optimization tools that people can access?

01:00:03.229 --> 01:00:05.239
Sukie Baxter: The two that I use are key.

01:00:05.509 --> 01:00:07.129
Is it keywords anywhere
or keywords everywhere?

01:00:07.129 --> 01:00:08.479
I think it's keywords everywhere.

01:00:08.629 --> 01:00:09.379
Let me make sure.

01:00:12.529 --> 01:00:13.579
Keywords everywhere.

01:00:13.684 --> 01:00:14.764
Keywords everywhere.

01:00:15.164 --> 01:00:15.324
Interesting.

01:00:15.324 --> 01:00:15.564
Yeah.

01:00:15.674 --> 01:00:15.964
Okay.

01:00:16.044 --> 01:00:16.924
Keywords everywhere.

01:00:16.969 --> 01:00:17.929
It's a plugin.

01:00:17.989 --> 01:00:19.844
I believe it only works on Chrome.

01:00:20.494 --> 01:00:24.274
And the other one that I
use is called Tube Buddy.

01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:26.509
They're both very affordable tools.

01:00:26.899 --> 01:00:27.269
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:00:27.629 --> 01:00:28.539
Why those two?

01:00:28.539 --> 01:00:30.489
I'm, I'm sure there's
other tools out there.

01:00:30.819 --> 01:00:33.639
What is it about those two that
works better than the others

01:00:34.149 --> 01:00:34.619
Sukie Baxter: that you found?

01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:38.249
Well, Keywords Everywhere tells
you, it gives you psychic abilities.

01:00:38.289 --> 01:00:40.659
It tells you how many people
are searching for something.

01:00:41.279 --> 01:00:42.229
You can use it on YouTube.

01:00:42.229 --> 01:00:43.119
You can use it on Google.

01:00:43.349 --> 01:00:46.419
It does cost it does cost a little bit
of money to, you know, every time you

01:00:46.419 --> 01:00:50.449
do a search, it'll give you these little
numbers next to your search term that tell

01:00:50.449 --> 01:00:52.129
you how many people are searching for it.

01:00:52.329 --> 01:00:54.359
And every time you do that, it
costs you a little bit of money, but

01:00:54.359 --> 01:00:58.559
it's, it's so, I mean, I think it
was like, I don't know, 20 bucks.

01:00:59.034 --> 01:01:00.964
And I've been using it for
like a year or something.

01:01:00.964 --> 01:01:03.564
It's not, I don't remember exactly,
but it's really affordable.

01:01:04.024 --> 01:01:08.124
But I, I turn it off when I'm not using it
just so I'm not running down my credits.

01:01:08.514 --> 01:01:10.924
And then TubeBuddy, I don't use as much.

01:01:10.924 --> 01:01:12.074
I use keywords everywhere more.

01:01:12.084 --> 01:01:15.664
TubeBuddy has a bunch of tools that
you can use that will allow you to

01:01:15.744 --> 01:01:18.104
see comparisons with other channels.

01:01:18.114 --> 01:01:20.134
So if you have somebody who's
like got a similar channel, you

01:01:20.134 --> 01:01:22.514
can see like how their videos
are performing compared to yours.

01:01:22.844 --> 01:01:24.134
It gives you some.

01:01:24.489 --> 01:01:25.609
Weighted search predictions.

01:01:25.609 --> 01:01:27.899
So like when you're popping a
title into youtube, like maybe i'm

01:01:27.899 --> 01:01:30.519
going to consider this title It'll
kind of tell you for your channel.

01:01:30.779 --> 01:01:33.769
We think this is a really good one
It gives you data like how many

01:01:33.779 --> 01:01:35.699
other videos are in that search?

01:01:35.699 --> 01:01:38.069
So you kind of know what your
competition is So it just it gives

01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:41.659
these two tools Between the two you
get enough data to be able to make

01:01:41.659 --> 01:01:43.479
an educated guess about a solid title

01:01:44.569 --> 01:01:46.099
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
this is really useful.

01:01:46.659 --> 01:01:52.464
So, okay, so you are Putting out this
content through the pandemic about the

01:01:52.464 --> 01:01:58.364
nervous system and stress and what people
can do, what, apart from understanding

01:01:58.824 --> 01:02:01.814
They're vagal reactions to things.

01:02:01.964 --> 01:02:06.284
How, what, what tools are you giving
them in these videos that you're

01:02:06.284 --> 01:02:11.134
putting out back then that are like
the 1, 2, 3 steps that people can take?

01:02:11.134 --> 01:02:14.824
And it, if you are someone, again
listening to this podcast right

01:02:14.824 --> 01:02:18.024
now, you're driving, you're feeling
stressed, you've got adrenaline and

01:02:18.024 --> 01:02:21.884
cortisol waring around in you, you
feel your sympathetic nervous system

01:02:21.884 --> 01:02:23.684
even is not being sympathetic to you.

01:02:23.779 --> 01:02:27.494
, I dunno why it's called sympathetic when
it seems to behave so unsympathetically.

01:02:27.494 --> 01:02:28.094
But there you go.

01:02:28.704 --> 01:02:36.044
What's your 1 2 3 that any of us
should do to begin to bring our

01:02:36.084 --> 01:02:41.184
nervous systems back into a sort of a
coherent state when we're all jangled?

01:02:41.594 --> 01:02:44.194
What's, what do we,
what do we need to know?

01:02:44.894 --> 01:02:45.324
Yeah.

01:02:45.994 --> 01:02:48.324
Sukie Baxter: Well, the information
in the YouTube videos is a lot of

01:02:48.324 --> 01:02:51.534
education because as I mentioned, a
lot of times people are just asking

01:02:51.544 --> 01:02:54.294
through no fault of their own, but
people are asking the wrong questions

01:02:54.304 --> 01:02:57.874
simply because of the way that we've
been taught to conceptualize ourselves

01:02:57.904 --> 01:03:01.954
as like this sort of disembodied brain
that, that is, you know, this is where

01:03:01.954 --> 01:03:03.654
we live is like in our brain over here.

01:03:03.894 --> 01:03:04.024
What's the wrong

01:03:04.064 --> 01:03:04.484
Rupert Isaacson: question?

01:03:04.644 --> 01:03:04.844
Yeah.

01:03:04.904 --> 01:03:06.844
What's an example of a wrong
question that I might ask?

01:03:07.784 --> 01:03:09.634
Sukie Baxter: What's the best
way to stretch my hamstrings?

01:03:10.034 --> 01:03:10.414
Okay.

01:03:11.004 --> 01:03:11.374
Right.

01:03:11.934 --> 01:03:16.384
Because How many people stretch their
hamstrings every day and get marginal

01:03:16.384 --> 01:03:20.274
or no, you know, maybe you get some,
some benefits to an extent, but then

01:03:20.274 --> 01:03:22.494
you hit this wall and that they,
you know, you never get beyond that.

01:03:22.494 --> 01:03:22.654
Right.

01:03:22.654 --> 01:03:26.644
So, so then the education has to
happen around understanding that.

01:03:27.099 --> 01:03:30.929
It's not that your hamstring muscles
are physically too short, it's that

01:03:30.929 --> 01:03:35.269
your brain is literally sending a signal
to your hamstrings to contract them to

01:03:35.269 --> 01:03:38.919
protect you from going into a range of
motion where you don't have control.

01:03:39.109 --> 01:03:40.199
Why is it sending that signal?

01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:41.429
Well, that's the million dollar question.

01:03:41.429 --> 01:03:44.029
Could be a simple physical issue that
you don't have enough strength and

01:03:44.029 --> 01:03:46.989
mobility, or it could be that you have
a trauma response in your body that

01:03:46.989 --> 01:03:48.959
you've been living in sympathetic,
so you're gripping and protecting.

01:03:48.959 --> 01:03:50.059
I mean, there's so many different things.

01:03:50.099 --> 01:03:51.409
Why are you living in sympathetic?

01:03:51.739 --> 01:03:53.699
And this, this is what got me
out of body work because I was

01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:55.189
like, this is, it's a rabbit hole.

01:03:55.309 --> 01:03:56.374
You know, I would say.

01:03:56.484 --> 01:03:56.904
This is not

01:03:56.904 --> 01:03:57.214
Rupert Isaacson: a conversation.

01:03:57.214 --> 01:04:00.314
Yeah, but that actually was a very nice
one, two, three that you just said.

01:04:00.324 --> 01:04:03.484
So you got, okay, why
are my hamstrings tight?

01:04:04.134 --> 01:04:05.914
Because I've been
stretching them every day.

01:04:06.344 --> 01:04:09.834
Is it because my body thinks
I'm not safe if I do that?

01:04:10.284 --> 01:04:14.324
If it thinks I'm not safe and,
and contracts when I do that,

01:04:14.484 --> 01:04:16.474
why does it think I'm not safe?

01:04:16.644 --> 01:04:18.924
Well, that is a very good one, two, three.

01:04:19.524 --> 01:04:20.454
Yeah, exactly.

01:04:20.584 --> 01:04:20.864
Yeah.

01:04:20.914 --> 01:04:21.184
Yeah.

01:04:21.724 --> 01:04:22.094
Why?

01:04:22.134 --> 01:04:24.294
Why does my body think
it's unsafe when I do that?

01:04:24.294 --> 01:04:24.554
Yeah.

01:04:24.554 --> 01:04:26.014
And surely just giving.

01:04:26.669 --> 01:04:33.659
Attention to that question is going
to set me on a road towards asking

01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:37.589
my brain, well, is it possible
that I might be safe in that?

01:04:38.299 --> 01:04:42.439
And then might my brain then begin to
say, alright, well I'll let you stretch

01:04:42.444 --> 01:04:49.509
a little way to find out Mm-Hmm, . So it
would is posing the, is it, it is funny.

01:04:49.509 --> 01:04:52.089
Is it, is it like the algorithm
of your brain is posing the

01:04:52.089 --> 01:04:53.439
right question to your brain?

01:04:54.419 --> 01:04:55.229
One of the.

01:04:55.654 --> 01:04:56.714
Like keywords everywhere.

01:04:56.934 --> 01:05:00.784
Is it one of the secrets of
unlocking the nervous system?

01:05:01.864 --> 01:05:03.984
Which is interesting because
that does bring one back to

01:05:03.984 --> 01:05:05.894
the thoughts create things.

01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:13.299
Or changing your thoughts, but it's, but
in ways that are thoughtful, I suppose.

01:05:13.309 --> 01:05:16.479
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, thoughts
are sensory information, right?

01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:20.399
So like, I think, I think we need
to, we need to downgrade thoughts

01:05:20.409 --> 01:05:22.209
from like this exalted thing up here.

01:05:22.209 --> 01:05:24.289
That's like, we've got thoughts and
then we've got all this sensory info.

01:05:24.309 --> 01:05:25.159
They're just part of it.

01:05:25.514 --> 01:05:25.804
Right.

01:05:25.854 --> 01:05:29.514
So it's not that having a positive
mindset isn't helpful, right?

01:05:29.514 --> 01:05:32.004
Like if you're walking around telling
yourself horrible things all the time

01:05:32.584 --> 01:05:34.054
and beating yourself up in your head.

01:05:34.054 --> 01:05:34.194
Yeah.

01:05:34.224 --> 01:05:35.024
That is bad.

01:05:35.244 --> 01:05:35.504
Which a

01:05:35.504 --> 01:05:37.124
Rupert Isaacson: lot
of us are, by the way.

01:05:37.414 --> 01:05:37.614
Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

01:05:37.614 --> 01:05:38.044
Right.

01:05:38.264 --> 01:05:39.244
But also.

01:05:39.889 --> 01:05:44.119
Oftentimes we will try to change our
thoughts and and struggle with that

01:05:44.149 --> 01:05:48.239
because our bodies are in this sympathetic
state and we feel unsafe and the brain

01:05:48.459 --> 01:05:50.229
Rupert Isaacson: calls bullshit
on us and says, no, I'm going

01:05:50.229 --> 01:05:51.249
to keep that relationship.

01:05:51.279 --> 01:05:51.529
Right.

01:05:51.589 --> 01:05:51.829
Sukie Baxter: Right.

01:05:51.829 --> 01:05:52.319
Exactly.

01:05:52.319 --> 01:05:55.359
And so if you change that state
through these other sensory processes,

01:05:55.839 --> 01:05:58.009
it then unlocks the ability.

01:05:58.009 --> 01:05:58.269
I mean, this is.

01:05:58.394 --> 01:06:01.684
This sounds very similar to when I
hear you talk about the unlocking the

01:06:01.684 --> 01:06:03.064
learning centers and autism, right?

01:06:03.084 --> 01:06:06.814
It's like when we change the state
of the body, it sort of opens up the

01:06:06.824 --> 01:06:08.944
mind to be receptive to new thoughts.

01:06:09.244 --> 01:06:09.584
Right?

01:06:09.654 --> 01:06:11.954
So it's, it's not that
that piece is wrong or bad.

01:06:11.964 --> 01:06:15.014
It's just that you can't sit,
you can't suppress negativity.

01:06:15.024 --> 01:06:16.894
You can't sit around being
like, I'm not anxious.

01:06:17.244 --> 01:06:18.144
Everything's fine.

01:06:18.564 --> 01:06:21.804
You know, I am happy and well,
and everything is perfect.

01:06:21.814 --> 01:06:26.199
And then your body's like, no,
like, a lion basically has its

01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:28.559
teeth around your shoulder,
like, we're gonna die any moment.

01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:29.009
You know what I mean?

01:06:29.029 --> 01:06:30.259
It's, it's conflicting.

01:06:30.489 --> 01:06:33.609
And then even that conflict, I think,
makes us feel even less safe, because

01:06:33.609 --> 01:06:35.639
your, your thoughts are telling
you one thing, you're biased, and

01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:37.279
then you're another, your brain's
like, I don't know what the truth

01:06:37.279 --> 01:06:38.679
is, but this does not feel okay to

01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:40.539
Rupert Isaacson: me.

01:06:41.219 --> 01:06:41.539
Right.

01:06:41.749 --> 01:06:42.259
Okay.

01:06:42.379 --> 01:06:50.029
So, you've got to pose a question
as to why your brain is saying

01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.059
that something is unsafe.

01:06:53.759 --> 01:06:54.459
When?

01:06:55.844 --> 01:07:00.964
All evidence suggests that, say,
bending down to pick something up off

01:07:00.964 --> 01:07:04.014
the floor, hence the hamstring stretch.

01:07:04.779 --> 01:07:05.689
is actually okay.

01:07:06.049 --> 01:07:08.859
There is no elephant charging at
you currently while you do it.

01:07:09.459 --> 01:07:14.969
So if I can tell my, ask my brain,
why am I having this response?

01:07:16.069 --> 01:07:17.879
Do you think that there's a value?

01:07:18.109 --> 01:07:24.679
Do you think the nervous system responds
to when we begin to pose questions to it?

01:07:24.929 --> 01:07:27.309
Because let's just, let's also
assume that the brain is an extension

01:07:27.309 --> 01:07:28.159
of the nervous system, right?

01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.832
It's receiving information
from the nervous system.

01:07:30.832 --> 01:07:32.071
So it's connected.

01:07:32.071 --> 01:07:37.671
Is posing that question going to
automatically set the nervous system

01:07:37.671 --> 01:07:42.031
going along some more functional pathways,

01:07:42.311 --> 01:07:42.401
Sukie Baxter: perhaps?

01:07:42.851 --> 01:07:43.951
I think it can.

01:07:44.421 --> 01:07:45.411
I think it's the start.

01:07:45.681 --> 01:07:46.731
I think it opens the door.

01:07:47.111 --> 01:07:47.421
Okay.

01:07:47.461 --> 01:07:47.731
Right.

01:07:47.741 --> 01:07:50.521
So now if we understand that
this is a safety issue and

01:07:50.521 --> 01:07:52.201
not a tight rubber band issue.

01:07:53.176 --> 01:07:55.966
It, it completely transforms
the way we then approach it.

01:07:55.966 --> 01:07:56.866
Now we can be curious.

01:07:57.226 --> 01:07:57.546
Right.

01:07:57.546 --> 01:07:57.806
And I'm

01:07:57.946 --> 01:07:59.916
Rupert Isaacson: acknowledging
that I am feeling this, right?

01:07:59.956 --> 01:08:01.376
I'm not denying that I'm feeling this.

01:08:01.816 --> 01:08:01.996
Yeah.

01:08:01.996 --> 01:08:02.266
Sukie Baxter: Okay.

01:08:02.716 --> 01:08:02.916
Yeah.

01:08:02.946 --> 01:08:04.016
No, no, absolutely.

01:08:04.016 --> 01:08:06.826
And that's, that's a really important
thing is that like when people are feeling

01:08:06.856 --> 01:08:09.986
tightness or pain, sometimes they get,
you know, especially when you go and

01:08:09.986 --> 01:08:12.851
you get medically evaluated and they
take all these images and they're like,

01:08:12.851 --> 01:08:14.166
well, we can't find any reason for this.

01:08:14.166 --> 01:08:15.236
You must be cracking up.

01:08:15.606 --> 01:08:17.996
And they don't usually say it like
that, but that's the, the impact

01:08:18.006 --> 01:08:20.126
of what they say is like, well,
you should go see a psychologist.

01:08:20.126 --> 01:08:21.486
Cause we can't find anything wrong.

01:08:21.486 --> 01:08:25.306
And I've had many a client come to
me and be like, like kind of secretly

01:08:25.306 --> 01:08:29.396
thinking maybe they're going crazy
because there's no reason for this pain.

01:08:29.396 --> 01:08:31.236
So maybe it's not real
and they're making it up.

01:08:31.436 --> 01:08:32.736
No, it's absolutely real.

01:08:33.096 --> 01:08:34.886
Your anxiety is absolutely real.

01:08:34.886 --> 01:08:36.846
Even if there's no reason for it.

01:08:37.346 --> 01:08:40.076
What you are experiencing
is completely real.

01:08:40.596 --> 01:08:42.846
But like, like you said, you
know, I'm gonna ask, okay, so

01:08:42.846 --> 01:08:44.196
why am I experiencing this?

01:08:44.196 --> 01:08:45.936
What is the lack of safety about it?

01:08:45.936 --> 01:08:49.106
Whether it's anxiety, which
is just, I don't feel safe.

01:08:49.106 --> 01:08:51.386
I think something bad is going
to happen in the next moment.

01:08:52.026 --> 01:08:54.826
That's what the brain is saying, that
you may not consciously think that,

01:08:54.826 --> 01:08:58.906
but non-consciously your brain's like,
I feel like I may die at any moment.

01:08:59.356 --> 01:09:03.236
Mm-Hmm, , or a hamstring stretch,
or, you know, lifting your arm,

01:09:03.356 --> 01:09:04.766
turning your, turning your head.

01:09:05.006 --> 01:09:06.206
Then we can be curious.

01:09:06.206 --> 01:09:09.186
It's about, you know, well,
well, what if we change the

01:09:09.186 --> 01:09:10.036
Rupert Isaacson: context?

01:09:10.676 --> 01:09:15.396
Well, that is, I think what I'm,
was feeling my way towards there.

01:09:15.586 --> 01:09:17.096
Thank you for saying curious.

01:09:17.646 --> 01:09:24.076
So when we're working, for example, with
learning receptors in the brain, with

01:09:25.066 --> 01:09:28.626
what I do with autism and learning with,
with movement method, one of the things

01:09:28.626 --> 01:09:34.176
that we know is that the, the curious
brain is actually the happy brain.

01:09:34.726 --> 01:09:40.046
You, you can't learn in a state
of great distress, not really.

01:09:40.716 --> 01:09:45.476
And, but when you're in your seeking,
hunting brain, you're like, Ooh,

01:09:45.526 --> 01:09:46.206
I don't know what's over there.

01:09:46.236 --> 01:09:47.376
You're curious brain.

01:09:48.666 --> 01:09:56.036
It's an, it's an automatic happy state
and it's also a a learning state.

01:09:56.716 --> 01:09:57.636
We're curious monkeys.

01:09:57.966 --> 01:09:58.986
We like to learn.

01:10:00.156 --> 01:10:03.366
So again, that thing about
posing questions, becoming

01:10:03.446 --> 01:10:05.516
curious rather than resistant.

01:10:05.516 --> 01:10:06.356
Like I've got this.

01:10:07.271 --> 01:10:09.151
Pain, painful shoulder and I want it gone.

01:10:09.151 --> 01:10:09.991
I want to resist this.

01:10:10.041 --> 01:10:10.801
I want it gone.

01:10:10.811 --> 01:10:12.001
I want it out I want to kill it.

01:10:12.451 --> 01:10:19.651
I want to I want to slay that dragon
or Dragons are sort of interesting.

01:10:20.581 --> 01:10:24.531
Is this a toothless or
is this a white crested?

01:10:25.331 --> 01:10:32.776
Lesser spotted, you know Samoan
dragon And if so do I need to ride it

01:10:32.786 --> 01:10:36.321
with a a large padded Samoan saddle?

01:10:36.491 --> 01:10:40.561
Or will my Portuguese dragon saddle
that I've been using actually work?

01:10:40.591 --> 01:10:42.491
Was it a bit too low on
the dragons withers in it?

01:10:42.811 --> 01:10:43.661
But what, you know what I mean?

01:10:43.661 --> 01:10:48.091
It's suddenly, it's getting
interested in the whole thing.

01:10:49.481 --> 01:10:51.551
Actually, one of the keys.

01:10:52.041 --> 01:10:54.731
When we're talking about our
body's response, because so

01:10:54.761 --> 01:10:58.841
often we are completely mystified
because so much of this is going

01:10:58.841 --> 01:11:00.551
on in our subconscious, right?

01:11:00.931 --> 01:11:04.651
We don't know why, you know, on
the face of it, most of the people

01:11:04.651 --> 01:11:06.691
that are coming into your office,
their lives are probably quite good.

01:11:06.921 --> 01:11:09.411
Why are they so stressed?

01:11:09.421 --> 01:11:12.741
Why are they in a state where their
nervous system is saying, I might die?

01:11:15.401 --> 01:11:16.711
It's getting curious about it.

01:11:17.771 --> 01:11:18.751
The first step to healing.

01:11:19.961 --> 01:11:20.661
Sukie Baxter: I think so.

01:11:21.611 --> 01:11:25.441
And I think that when we are curious,
there's a lot of richness that can

01:11:25.441 --> 01:11:31.231
be discovered, but it's also not
necessarily, I become curious and

01:11:31.231 --> 01:11:32.851
the solution arises immediately.

01:11:32.851 --> 01:11:33.911
And now I understand.

01:11:34.081 --> 01:11:34.211
Sure.

01:11:34.461 --> 01:11:37.891
And oftentimes there are
many layers to this, right?

01:11:37.891 --> 01:11:40.701
So there's the surface answers.

01:11:41.396 --> 01:11:42.376
To the question, right?

01:11:42.396 --> 01:11:44.956
Like, we can become curious
about a stuck shoulder or a tight

01:11:44.966 --> 01:11:48.726
hamstring and change some physical
context and maybe have some shifts.

01:11:49.186 --> 01:11:52.996
But on a more global level,
you know, there can be.

01:11:53.456 --> 01:11:54.626
A challenging relationship.

01:11:54.646 --> 01:11:57.076
There can be a challenging
life circumstance.

01:11:57.076 --> 01:12:01.986
There could be past trauma or past
conditioning about what's acceptable.

01:12:01.986 --> 01:12:06.216
I, I worked with many particularly
people who were raised, socialized

01:12:06.236 --> 01:12:08.086
as women in the fifties.

01:12:08.626 --> 01:12:09.086
And.

01:12:09.536 --> 01:12:12.466
It's a very interesting thing when you
start working with them around tension

01:12:12.486 --> 01:12:16.906
around their hips, that there's a lot
of conditioning around how, if you move

01:12:16.906 --> 01:12:19.476
your hips, if you allow your hips to
move, then you were considered like,

01:12:19.826 --> 01:12:24.946
you know, loose, or, you know, it was,
it was suggestive in a way that proper

01:12:25.006 --> 01:12:28.716
girls did not, you know, should not do.

01:12:29.986 --> 01:12:30.956
for the time period.

01:12:30.956 --> 01:12:34.416
And so, so when you start to
become curious, you, you unlock

01:12:34.896 --> 01:12:36.456
so much more of a person.

01:12:36.706 --> 01:12:38.756
So that's not, it's never a simple answer.

01:12:38.756 --> 01:12:40.686
It's, I should say, it's not
never a simple answer, but

01:12:40.686 --> 01:12:42.576
it's rarely a simple answer.

01:12:42.576 --> 01:12:45.616
There's rarely like a night and
day, you know, today, you're like

01:12:45.616 --> 01:12:46.626
this tomorrow, you're like that.

01:12:46.776 --> 01:12:47.586
And we move on.

01:12:47.826 --> 01:12:49.746
Rupert Isaacson: Surely that's
the nature of curiosity is that

01:12:49.756 --> 01:12:51.626
we want to go down rabbit holes.

01:12:51.626 --> 01:12:54.476
I mean, that's, that's the
nature of humanity is we like

01:12:54.526 --> 01:12:55.756
going down rabbit holes, right?

01:12:55.756 --> 01:12:57.436
Going down rabbit holes
as long as they're not.

01:12:58.326 --> 01:13:03.386
negative ones that panic us is actually
the great joys of life, isn't it?

01:13:03.416 --> 01:13:06.436
You know, I mean, to go find out,
Oh, and I can go, Oh, and this

01:13:06.436 --> 01:13:07.876
leads, Oh, and this leads to here.

01:13:08.486 --> 01:13:11.526
When you, when you were
working on these ladies though,

01:13:11.596 --> 01:13:12.896
that's an interesting thing.

01:13:13.936 --> 01:13:17.656
And you identified the tightness
in the hips, or were they already

01:13:17.656 --> 01:13:20.746
coming and complaining of this, or
they complaining about other things.

01:13:20.746 --> 01:13:25.066
And then you realized through looking
at their nervous systems that it was in

01:13:25.066 --> 01:13:29.456
the hips, how aware of it in the pelvis,

01:13:29.456 --> 01:13:29.826
Sukie Baxter: were they?

01:13:30.481 --> 01:13:31.661
It depends on the person.

01:13:31.661 --> 01:13:34.141
So sometimes the complaint
is localized to the area.

01:13:34.141 --> 01:13:36.701
So sometimes it was a like a hip issue.

01:13:37.021 --> 01:13:38.511
Often it's a low back issue.

01:13:38.781 --> 01:13:39.101
Okay.

01:13:39.121 --> 01:13:41.401
You know, because the pelvis
if the pelvis is restricted.

01:13:41.961 --> 01:13:42.881
Yeah, exactly.

01:13:42.921 --> 01:13:45.431
And then the hip joints
are hugely influential.

01:13:45.841 --> 01:13:46.731
Right on the low back.

01:13:46.731 --> 01:13:48.891
So a lot of times with low
back pain, but not always.

01:13:48.891 --> 01:13:50.591
I mean, again, everything is everything.

01:13:50.591 --> 01:13:51.691
It's all connected, right?

01:13:51.711 --> 01:13:54.081
So I'm looking at the
entirety of a person.

01:13:54.081 --> 01:13:57.601
So regardless of what they come in
with, if I have them walk across my

01:13:57.601 --> 01:14:01.171
office and you know, and, and this
is just true for people if I'm or

01:14:01.171 --> 01:14:05.071
horses too, if I'm watching them walk,
what I'm looking for is essentially

01:14:05.071 --> 01:14:06.541
what I call the rocks in the stream.

01:14:06.931 --> 01:14:08.911
Like what's flowing in their movement.

01:14:08.951 --> 01:14:09.651
What's not

01:14:09.651 --> 01:14:10.081
Rupert Isaacson: flowing.

01:14:10.361 --> 01:14:12.131
Is that your term?

01:14:12.821 --> 01:14:13.921
Looking for the rocks in the stream.

01:14:13.921 --> 01:14:14.001
I

01:14:14.001 --> 01:14:14.371
Sukie Baxter: don't.

01:14:14.506 --> 01:14:15.106
I think so.

01:14:16.146 --> 01:14:21.396
I think that it has, I've heard it from
various sources and I don't remember

01:14:21.396 --> 01:14:25.916
where I was first exposed to it, but
it is, it is how I conceptualize it.

01:14:25.956 --> 01:14:26.216
Yeah.

01:14:28.096 --> 01:14:31.896
Rupert Isaacson: And then when you
say, okay, I think it's in the hips.

01:14:32.466 --> 01:14:38.596
At what point do you find yourself in
a conversation with them about that

01:14:38.956 --> 01:14:45.926
1950s good girl conditioning and then
strategies about letting that perhaps go?

01:14:47.246 --> 01:14:48.106
How?

01:14:50.281 --> 01:14:54.291
Do you find that when you begin to
look at it that way, and talk about it

01:14:54.311 --> 01:14:56.141
that way, that there's a kind of a yes?

01:14:57.551 --> 01:15:00.541
That's it response or do you get denial

01:15:02.251 --> 01:15:03.991
Sukie Baxter: it really
depends on the person.

01:15:03.991 --> 01:15:07.041
So sometimes you never have
the conversation, right?

01:15:07.071 --> 01:15:10.451
So we don't necessarily have to
consciously know these things Sometimes

01:15:10.451 --> 01:15:13.911
it's I think it's helpful because
our brains want to have explanations

01:15:13.921 --> 01:15:18.151
for things So for most people having
some sort of story and there's some

01:15:18.161 --> 01:15:22.611
sort of cognitive Understanding is
helpful, but you don't have to, you

01:15:22.611 --> 01:15:25.721
can actually work on someone's body
and it can shift their internal state.

01:15:25.741 --> 01:15:29.071
And then for example, I had
a client who one time said.

01:15:29.531 --> 01:15:32.431
That they had a negative
memory of their father.

01:15:32.661 --> 01:15:33.781
I don't know what the memory was.

01:15:33.831 --> 01:15:36.011
They never shared it with
me, but that they had devoted

01:15:36.011 --> 01:15:37.461
many a yoga practice to it.

01:15:37.461 --> 01:15:41.491
Many a meditation to it, you know,
really worked on this like experience

01:15:41.531 --> 01:15:46.361
and that after doing some body work
for whatever it was, that was the key

01:15:46.361 --> 01:15:49.131
for them that like they could think
about this memory and it just didn't

01:15:49.141 --> 01:15:51.031
have the charge that it used to have.

01:15:51.031 --> 01:15:54.781
It just seemed to be not, and not
that the memory was gone, but that.

01:15:55.196 --> 01:15:58.896
The, you know, they could remember
it, but they didn't feel the, whatever

01:15:58.896 --> 01:16:00.356
it was, the, the unpleasantness.

01:16:00.756 --> 01:16:02.056
They weren't locked in the same

01:16:02.276 --> 01:16:05.826
Rupert Isaacson: response that
they were all those decades ago.

01:16:06.186 --> 01:16:07.126
Sukie Baxter: And I had no idea.

01:16:07.126 --> 01:16:10.806
I mean, this person never told me about
that memory before we, we worked together.

01:16:10.806 --> 01:16:12.106
We didn't have a conversation about it.

01:16:12.126 --> 01:16:14.316
It just was the piece that
helped it to dissipate.

01:16:14.626 --> 01:16:17.696
But with other people, you know,
specifically if you talk about, you

01:16:17.696 --> 01:16:21.236
know, women in the, from the 1950s
who was raised during that time.

01:16:22.011 --> 01:16:27.131
Who received this kind of messaging, it
might be that as we work together and

01:16:27.131 --> 01:16:30.611
their hips are moving more, maybe she's,
you know, she's walking, she's feeling it.

01:16:30.801 --> 01:16:33.311
She might be like, this
feels uncomfortable.

01:16:33.331 --> 01:16:34.461
And then we have a conversation.

01:16:34.471 --> 01:16:35.951
Why is it uncomfortable?

01:16:35.961 --> 01:16:36.651
Unfamiliar?

01:16:37.091 --> 01:16:37.971
Is it uncomfortable?

01:16:37.971 --> 01:16:38.641
Painful?

01:16:38.891 --> 01:16:41.851
You know what, what, tell me more
about this discomfort that you feel.

01:16:42.071 --> 01:16:44.591
And sometimes it comes up, like,
I just feel like I shouldn't.

01:16:44.946 --> 01:16:49.886
Do this or I just something about
this feels wrong or vulnerable, then

01:16:49.886 --> 01:16:51.516
we might have that conversation.

01:16:51.516 --> 01:16:51.706
Okay.

01:16:51.706 --> 01:16:53.136
Well, well, you know,
you're moving your hips.

01:16:53.146 --> 01:16:56.266
What does that, what concepts
do you have around that?

01:16:56.276 --> 01:16:59.996
Well, you know, I was always
taught you shouldn't do that.

01:17:00.076 --> 01:17:00.626
Oh, okay.

01:17:00.626 --> 01:17:01.796
Well, isn't, isn't that interesting?

01:17:01.796 --> 01:17:03.446
And that may be the extent
of the conversation.

01:17:03.456 --> 01:17:05.836
We don't need, need to have
an hour of psychology on that.

01:17:05.836 --> 01:17:08.346
You know, isn't that interesting
that moving your hips

01:17:08.346 --> 01:17:09.556
brings up this conditioning?

01:17:10.436 --> 01:17:14.546
You know, and what's your experience of
that now and, and, you know, they, they

01:17:14.546 --> 01:17:17.716
may take, they may take that with them
that day and they come back for the next

01:17:17.716 --> 01:17:19.046
session and things may have changed.

01:17:19.046 --> 01:17:20.326
We may have another conversation about it.

01:17:20.326 --> 01:17:20.766
We may not.

01:17:23.436 --> 01:17:27.996
Rupert Isaacson: So you gave up your
practice and to some degree your practice

01:17:27.996 --> 01:17:29.746
is also taken away from you by COVID.

01:17:30.526 --> 01:17:33.676
You started putting
these things on YouTube.

01:17:34.136 --> 01:17:37.636
Was there a, an oh shit,
I can't pay my rent bit?

01:17:38.186 --> 01:17:39.831
Yeah, there was.

01:17:41.531 --> 01:17:45.251
Sukie Baxter: I, yeah, COVID was
simultaneously like the best thing

01:17:45.251 --> 01:17:47.461
that ever happened to me and the
worst thing that ever happened to

01:17:47.461 --> 01:17:52.101
me, which, you know, I think it was a
huge, just upset for so many people.

01:17:52.161 --> 01:17:55.861
But in, in my case, I essentially
lost everything because overnight

01:17:55.891 --> 01:18:00.031
I, a business that I built over
15 years was just gone, just gone.

01:18:00.301 --> 01:18:03.651
Like literally, I didn't, I didn't
know that I went to work on a Thursday.

01:18:04.211 --> 01:18:05.691
And I came home and I never went back.

01:18:07.641 --> 01:18:08.311
That was it.

01:18:08.461 --> 01:18:12.421
And, and when you build a
practice like that, it's no joke.

01:18:12.451 --> 01:18:13.231
That's a lot of work.

01:18:13.631 --> 01:18:15.641
There's a lot of talking
to people over time.

01:18:16.171 --> 01:18:19.201
And I had a life, I have two
horses that were boarded.

01:18:19.201 --> 01:18:23.261
I had a condo and I had an office
with you know, rent that I had to

01:18:23.281 --> 01:18:26.551
pay and all of the associated things
that go along with life and a cat.

01:18:26.891 --> 01:18:30.111
And, and so, yeah, I was, I
was, but nobody else could pay

01:18:30.111 --> 01:18:31.171
anything either at that time.

01:18:31.191 --> 01:18:33.031
So it was a little bit of a
blessing that I was like, I

01:18:33.031 --> 01:18:34.101
mean, what are they going to do?

01:18:34.391 --> 01:18:38.861
You know, like I it's COVID
my, this, I can't work.

01:18:38.861 --> 01:18:43.171
So I just figured it out and I'll
be honest, like I could go back and

01:18:43.171 --> 01:18:45.221
figure out how I figured it out, but
I don't know how I figured it out.

01:18:45.431 --> 01:18:45.861
I just did.

01:18:45.891 --> 01:18:46.781
Rupert Isaacson: Well, here's a question.

01:18:46.781 --> 01:18:50.231
Did you, did you start immediately
helping people privately on zoom?

01:18:51.331 --> 01:18:54.471
Sukie Baxter: I did a little bit of
that, but I was very quickly frustrated

01:18:54.501 --> 01:18:58.361
because my clients essentially
wanted me to do body work on them.

01:18:58.361 --> 01:19:02.901
And I, you can't, you know, there was
a huge educational gap and you just,

01:19:02.921 --> 01:19:04.491
you can't do body work over zoom.

01:19:04.861 --> 01:19:05.891
It's not the same.

01:19:06.191 --> 01:19:11.201
And so what people were coming to me for,
like they, I have a lot to offer people

01:19:11.301 --> 01:19:14.581
in terms of my knowledge and, you know,
all the research I've done, but what

01:19:14.591 --> 01:19:16.491
people, what my clients really wanted was.

01:19:17.701 --> 01:19:18.001
Yeah.

01:19:18.071 --> 01:19:20.591
And I really couldn't
provide that to them.

01:19:20.591 --> 01:19:22.551
So I did start helping people over zoom.

01:19:22.551 --> 01:19:25.661
I did some somatic meditations
I just started kind of

01:19:25.871 --> 01:19:27.181
flailing about, to be honest.

01:19:27.181 --> 01:19:28.641
I was like, I don't know,
let's just help people.

01:19:28.641 --> 01:19:29.271
Let's just do this.

01:19:29.271 --> 01:19:29.891
Let's just do that.

01:19:29.891 --> 01:19:30.231
Here I am.

01:19:30.231 --> 01:19:32.481
I've got a smartphone, I've got
a computer, I've got internet.

01:19:32.811 --> 01:19:35.821
I don't think anyone's going to kick
me out of my condo in the next month.

01:19:36.631 --> 01:19:38.931
So, you know, let's just do something.

01:19:39.211 --> 01:19:42.631
And I filmed a bunch of stuff at
home and I started putting together

01:19:42.631 --> 01:19:44.081
some programs and honestly, it was.

01:19:44.101 --> 01:19:49.932
It was kind of nice because
I had a lot of time to focus

01:19:49.932 --> 01:19:52.015
because I wasn't going anywhere.

01:19:52.015 --> 01:19:55.514
Rupert Isaacson: Do you think your,
your research and knowledge of the

01:19:55.514 --> 01:20:01.224
nervous system and the brain by
then helped to stop you from going

01:20:01.224 --> 01:20:04.284
into a panic and a negative spiral?

01:20:04.285 --> 01:20:07.434
Do you think it helped you to?

01:20:09.609 --> 01:20:11.459
Leverage the situation in a way.

01:20:12.769 --> 01:20:12.849
I

01:20:12.849 --> 01:20:15.199
Sukie Baxter: think it was
that, that old quote about

01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:16.799
preparation, meeting opportunity.

01:20:17.379 --> 01:20:21.299
Because yes, I think the
nervous system work helped.

01:20:21.469 --> 01:20:25.929
I think the fact that I know how
to cook on a budget was helpful.

01:20:25.929 --> 01:20:29.469
I was able to like reduce my food
bill quite a bit very quickly.

01:20:29.739 --> 01:20:33.309
And and then I just got really
resourceful and I was like, okay,

01:20:33.309 --> 01:20:36.339
I can't put my hands on people,
but I have all these other skills.

01:20:36.959 --> 01:20:43.009
I don't know if any of them will provide
income for me, but they don't cost me

01:20:43.019 --> 01:20:46.439
anything or they don't cost me much to do.

01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:49.629
I have, you know, like what resources
do I already have that I can use?

01:20:49.629 --> 01:20:52.569
Well, like I said, I have a
smartphone, so it has a camera.

01:20:52.639 --> 01:20:53.439
I have internet.

01:20:54.034 --> 01:20:56.504
I already I'd been doing a
little bit of YouTube because

01:20:56.514 --> 01:20:57.534
I was so busy with my practice.

01:20:57.534 --> 01:21:00.994
I wasn't as consistent as I had wanted
to be, but I already had some of

01:21:01.014 --> 01:21:02.174
the things like I had a microphone.

01:21:02.174 --> 01:21:03.784
I had, you know, I had
the things I needed.

01:21:04.424 --> 01:21:08.814
I didn't have really great lights, but I
had a window, so, you know, I just kind

01:21:08.814 --> 01:21:10.364
of was like, well, it's not perfect.

01:21:10.374 --> 01:21:13.114
I don't have a professional studio, but.

01:21:13.584 --> 01:21:17.634
I'm, I've got these things, so what
can I do right now with what I have?

01:21:17.864 --> 01:21:18.084
And

01:21:18.204 --> 01:21:22.294
Rupert Isaacson: at what point did
you get your first bit of money

01:21:22.324 --> 01:21:24.424
from YouTube from these videos?

01:21:24.734 --> 01:21:27.504
From, in the pandemic?

01:21:27.704 --> 01:21:31.294
Sukie Baxter: I don't remember,
but it wasn't very soon.

01:21:31.464 --> 01:21:32.924
I think it was like 2021.

01:21:33.604 --> 01:21:37.234
Rupert Isaacson: So you started going for
it in 2019, and you were just like, well,

01:21:37.234 --> 01:21:39.244
you know, I'll just put these out there.

01:21:40.214 --> 01:21:43.414
Sukie Baxter: I think I was making a
little bit, but like a couple hundred

01:21:43.414 --> 01:21:44.924
bucks, you know, we're not talking

01:21:45.574 --> 01:21:45.874
Rupert Isaacson: livable wage.

01:21:46.134 --> 01:21:49.604
Even that for most of us is like, damn,
I made 200 bucks off my YouTube video.

01:21:49.904 --> 01:21:53.314
There must have been a sort of
a, shit, this is possible moment.

01:21:54.264 --> 01:21:56.714
Even when you got those first
little bits of trickles.

01:21:57.184 --> 01:21:57.794
Sukie Baxter: I think so.

01:21:57.794 --> 01:22:00.544
I think that I, I mean, one of
the reasons I do what I do is I'm

01:22:00.554 --> 01:22:01.914
prone to anxiety myself, right?

01:22:01.944 --> 01:22:04.314
So I think my anxious brain is like,
well, I'm making somebody, but I don't

01:22:04.314 --> 01:22:07.274
know if I can really live on this and
it's not really, you know, So, so I

01:22:07.274 --> 01:22:10.584
don't know that I was like, you know,
popping champagne and celebrating,

01:22:10.584 --> 01:22:12.944
but I was, you know, it's like, well,
thank God I have that, you know?

01:22:13.944 --> 01:22:16.284
Rupert Isaacson: But given that most
people that put something on YouTube never

01:22:16.604 --> 01:22:22.964
make a dime, I mean, that must have been
an interesting transitional life moment

01:22:22.984 --> 01:22:25.289
of going, oh, I see this as possible.

01:22:27.069 --> 01:22:30.039
Sukie Baxter: So I knew conceptually that
it was possible because I see other people

01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:33.599
doing it, but I, I had a really hard
time believing it was possible for me.

01:22:34.179 --> 01:22:34.579
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:22:35.179 --> 01:22:36.979
At what point did that get blown?

01:22:37.009 --> 01:22:38.269
You said 20, 2021.

01:22:38.329 --> 01:22:41.949
So two years in that gets
blown out of the water.

01:22:42.489 --> 01:22:42.789
Sukie Baxter: Yeah.

01:22:42.859 --> 01:22:45.249
Then I started making quite a
bit, but I don't, I don't rely

01:22:45.249 --> 01:22:46.769
on YouTube and it's not reliable.

01:22:46.799 --> 01:22:48.169
It's, it's very up and down.

01:22:48.409 --> 01:22:48.839
Right.

01:22:51.799 --> 01:22:56.049
Rupert Isaacson: So, what else were
you doing in that two year period

01:22:56.059 --> 01:22:57.259
to keep body and soul together?

01:22:57.909 --> 01:22:58.329
I sold my

01:22:58.329 --> 01:22:58.799
Sukie Baxter: condo.

01:22:59.389 --> 01:23:03.079
Got out of the city I moved my
horses to a lower cost of care

01:23:03.559 --> 01:23:05.079
facility, was quite far away.

01:23:05.079 --> 01:23:06.009
That was very hard for me.

01:23:06.529 --> 01:23:11.139
And I started, so I had been teaching
online since like 2014 in terms of

01:23:11.139 --> 01:23:14.049
having like digital programs that
people could buy with, you know.

01:23:14.784 --> 01:23:15.914
Educational materials and coaching,

01:23:15.915 --> 01:23:19.834
Rupert Isaacson: but already been
putting together courses online I

01:23:19.834 --> 01:23:23.064
Sukie Baxter: had, but, but they were
like, I actually recently went back

01:23:23.064 --> 01:23:25.214
and was looking at the content from
one of those and I was like, this

01:23:25.214 --> 01:23:26.964
is not, it was, it was interesting.

01:23:26.974 --> 01:23:27.824
It's not bad.

01:23:27.824 --> 01:23:32.284
I was surprised because in my memory I was
really having a hard time again, building

01:23:32.284 --> 01:23:35.444
that bridge from like, I'm trying to talk
to people about how their body influences

01:23:35.444 --> 01:23:38.284
their mind, you know, put these programs
out there and I would have all this like

01:23:38.734 --> 01:23:40.504
information around that for these people.

01:23:40.504 --> 01:23:43.394
And then like, the feedback was
like, you know, but how do I stretch

01:23:43.394 --> 01:23:44.384
my hamstrings kind of a thing?

01:23:44.394 --> 01:23:45.014
It was, it was.

01:23:45.994 --> 01:23:47.854
It was a little bit of a struggle for me.

01:23:47.854 --> 01:23:51.114
I wasn't really, it wasn't connecting
in the way that I wanted it to connect

01:23:51.124 --> 01:23:54.694
and it never was like, yeah, I mean,
it was a little money on the side.

01:23:54.694 --> 01:23:56.574
It was not livable at all.

01:23:56.604 --> 01:23:58.884
So my practice was my,
my bread and butter.

01:23:59.234 --> 01:24:01.944
So I, but I had that foundation and then.

01:24:02.749 --> 01:24:05.669
I started really talking to people as
these YouTube videos gained traction

01:24:05.669 --> 01:24:07.069
and people were like, you get it.

01:24:07.139 --> 01:24:09.449
Like that, that was what I kept hearing
was people would come to me and be

01:24:09.449 --> 01:24:12.809
like, I've been trying to figure this
out for years and you've explained it

01:24:12.809 --> 01:24:14.089
in such a way that it connects for me.

01:24:14.189 --> 01:24:16.099
And I'm like, okay, thank
goodness we're finally connecting.

01:24:16.349 --> 01:24:18.899
Like I'm, I'm finally understanding
what people want to hear.

01:24:19.319 --> 01:24:20.729
They're getting the information they need.

01:24:20.729 --> 01:24:21.319
This is good.

01:24:21.519 --> 01:24:26.009
And as I talked to people I figured
out that they really needed some, some

01:24:26.464 --> 01:24:30.244
Education and support in doing nervous
system work for themselves, not me

01:24:30.244 --> 01:24:34.774
doing it on them, not me fixing them,
not me being the mechanic, but like,

01:24:34.784 --> 01:24:37.974
let's empower them to do this work for
themselves, which is really the only

01:24:37.974 --> 01:24:39.634
way it will be lasting and sustainable.

01:24:40.154 --> 01:24:42.094
So I started teaching a course.

01:24:42.659 --> 01:24:43.309
Online.

01:24:43.319 --> 01:24:47.869
And again, I didn't, I didn't know how
it would work when I put it out there.

01:24:47.869 --> 01:24:49.199
I was like, let's try it.

01:24:49.299 --> 01:24:51.059
You know, I have, that was a live

01:24:51.089 --> 01:24:51.379
Rupert Isaacson: course.

01:24:51.379 --> 01:24:54.339
So that was film content that people
would go through step by step.

01:24:54.859 --> 01:24:55.729
Sukie Baxter: It was live.

01:24:56.199 --> 01:25:00.009
And then I converted it to
something that people could access

01:25:00.029 --> 01:25:01.729
on their own time, because I.

01:25:02.264 --> 01:25:07.644
Thought it was a little bit, it ended up
being, I'm, I'm an overdeliver general.

01:25:07.644 --> 01:25:08.854
It's a lot for people.

01:25:09.194 --> 01:25:13.264
To me, it seemed like this is very, very
reasonable for the amount of time we had.

01:25:13.284 --> 01:25:14.624
For them, it was probably

01:25:14.624 --> 01:25:16.484
Rupert Isaacson: worried that people
are going to think they're shortchanged.

01:25:16.484 --> 01:25:16.774
Yeah,

01:25:16.924 --> 01:25:17.614
Sukie Baxter: probably.

01:25:17.654 --> 01:25:18.064
Yeah.

01:25:18.124 --> 01:25:18.384
Yeah.

01:25:19.014 --> 01:25:23.194
So I converted it to something that was
more self paced and now I'm actually in

01:25:23.194 --> 01:25:28.894
the process of converting it back to to
life because we find that that group.

01:25:29.344 --> 01:25:33.304
community going through it
together is much more potent than

01:25:33.304 --> 01:25:34.674
people doing it on their own.

01:25:35.114 --> 01:25:38.264
But regardless of whether it
was live or self paced, like the

01:25:38.264 --> 01:25:39.614
feedback has been really wonderful.

01:25:39.614 --> 01:25:41.534
I've learned a ton working
with people I've had.

01:25:41.734 --> 01:25:45.184
I mean, when I get to interact with
the people, the students who are

01:25:45.184 --> 01:25:49.294
in my community and who are in my
programs, it's, it's amazing to me to

01:25:49.294 --> 01:25:50.844
look back over that journey and just.

01:25:51.374 --> 01:25:56.374
I'm so glad I was able to do that because
it really it is that piece that I was

01:25:56.384 --> 01:26:00.404
kind of frustrated bumping up against
in my practice was that I wasn't able to

01:26:00.404 --> 01:26:02.084
give people this foundational knowledge.

01:26:02.264 --> 01:26:05.184
Once they have this, the things
that people are doing with it are

01:26:05.184 --> 01:26:08.464
just, they're just really fantastic
because then, like you said, it opens

01:26:08.464 --> 01:26:10.004
that door and they can be curious.

01:26:10.604 --> 01:26:14.814
I, I just had amazing feedback
and I haven't asked specifically.

01:26:14.994 --> 01:26:17.874
I'm going to be asking some of these
people if I can share their stories soon.

01:26:18.184 --> 01:26:24.984
But generally, people are
able to set better boundaries.

01:26:25.504 --> 01:26:29.864
So we have students who are chronic
people pleasers, you know, who

01:26:29.864 --> 01:26:31.344
are they'll bring up situations.

01:26:31.344 --> 01:26:34.354
And then, as they understand how the what
what's going on in the nervous system

01:26:34.634 --> 01:26:39.744
in regards to situations where they
feel they need to, sort of morph into

01:26:39.744 --> 01:26:42.874
whatever it is that someone needs them
to be in order to keep that person calm.

01:26:42.874 --> 01:26:45.524
And then they understand the
nervous system implications of that.

01:26:45.534 --> 01:26:50.364
And what's driving that they're,
they're able to be more true.

01:26:50.374 --> 01:26:53.624
And it's not, it's not about everyone
can just F off and, you know, I'm

01:26:53.624 --> 01:26:54.514
going to do what I want to do.

01:26:54.564 --> 01:26:55.394
That's not it at all.

01:26:55.394 --> 01:26:58.754
But they're able to be
more discerning about.

01:26:59.194 --> 01:27:04.404
Setting boundaries in ways that protect
them and their own, you know, agency in

01:27:04.404 --> 01:27:07.194
life, which has been really cool to watch.

01:27:07.224 --> 01:27:11.954
I've had clients, a lot of clients who
are health practitioners in some regard, a

01:27:11.954 --> 01:27:14.084
lot who are in coaching or mental health.

01:27:14.354 --> 01:27:17.834
We have people who are in all kinds of
different disciplines, but Including

01:27:17.834 --> 01:27:22.394
massage and acupuncture and all that, but
we've got people in coaching and mental

01:27:22.394 --> 01:27:25.644
health who are saying like, okay, this is
helping me put the pieces together so that

01:27:25.654 --> 01:27:27.284
I'm now able to help my clients better.

01:27:27.284 --> 01:27:30.544
Like I'm understanding what's
going on with them much better so

01:27:30.544 --> 01:27:34.764
that I'm able to bridge that gap
with them and support them better.

01:27:34.764 --> 01:27:38.134
So that we're getting, they're kind
of like secondhand client stories

01:27:38.134 --> 01:27:39.674
of, of change that are happening.

01:27:40.084 --> 01:27:42.324
Recently we had somebody
who injured their back.

01:27:42.859 --> 01:27:47.459
Who was just, it just did something that
they didn't normally do and was able

01:27:47.479 --> 01:27:52.109
to, the, I think the clinic said that it
would take like six weeks to heal, but

01:27:52.109 --> 01:27:55.719
they were able with the understanding
again of what's happening in the nervous

01:27:55.719 --> 01:28:00.139
system around this quote injury it wasn't,
it was just kind of a diffuse injury.

01:28:00.149 --> 01:28:02.149
It wasn't diagnosed as
like, you, you know.

01:28:02.684 --> 01:28:03.884
You actually broke something.

01:28:03.894 --> 01:28:06.474
It was more like you strained yourself.

01:28:07.014 --> 01:28:09.424
And with some understanding, they
were able to work themselves out of

01:28:09.424 --> 01:28:13.124
pain into a functional state in about
two days, rather than six weeks.

01:28:13.734 --> 01:28:17.324
So it's, it's kind of all over the
map because it's so individual.

01:28:17.324 --> 01:28:20.314
And again, this is, it makes it a
little hard to quantify, but it's

01:28:20.314 --> 01:28:23.014
also what I love about it is that
it gives people what they need.

01:28:23.024 --> 01:28:26.564
It's not, it's not a program
that is one size fits all.

01:28:26.594 --> 01:28:30.154
It gives you what you need for your
next step, your next evolution.

01:28:31.784 --> 01:28:34.714
Rupert Isaacson: If it's me and I'm
saying, okay, gosh, Suki, this sounds

01:28:34.714 --> 01:28:38.244
fantastic, I'd like to learn all
about my nervous system so that I can

01:28:38.694 --> 01:28:42.604
make certain changes in my life, you
know, in my body, in my brain, and

01:28:42.604 --> 01:28:44.434
therefore, by extension in my life.

01:28:44.984 --> 01:28:48.234
I presume though that people are coming
in at different stages of knowledge.

01:28:48.234 --> 01:28:52.634
So you must, you must have people
doing your online courses now who are

01:28:54.259 --> 01:28:56.339
Somewhat far along in their education.

01:28:56.509 --> 01:28:57.549
Others who are just beginning.

01:28:57.789 --> 01:28:58.509
How do you integrate?

01:28:58.509 --> 01:29:00.509
How do you, how's it, how's
their inclusion in that?

01:29:00.559 --> 01:29:03.299
Yeah, because you've got to
catch certain people up to speed.

01:29:03.819 --> 01:29:04.519
Other people are over here.

01:29:04.519 --> 01:29:05.539
Or is everything individualized?

01:29:05.569 --> 01:29:08.839
How do you, and how do you have
enough time in the day for that?

01:29:09.189 --> 01:29:10.309
There's lots of different

01:29:11.289 --> 01:29:11.939
Sukie Baxter: No, it's a good question.

01:29:11.939 --> 01:29:14.509
It's been something that we've been
working with that I've been working with.

01:29:14.719 --> 01:29:16.639
I have a couple coaches
who work with me as well.

01:29:16.729 --> 01:29:18.319
So I've, I've done a couple of things.

01:29:18.319 --> 01:29:22.099
So one, I implemented a shorter
program that is newer as of last year.

01:29:22.099 --> 01:29:23.599
That's kind of like a first step.

01:29:24.019 --> 01:29:24.649
It is a first

01:29:25.459 --> 01:29:27.519
Rupert Isaacson: entry level
course that somebody would do.

01:29:28.094 --> 01:29:28.504
Sukie Baxter: Correct.

01:29:28.514 --> 01:29:33.194
And so I, and now I've, I've created
that as a prerequisite for the, the

01:29:33.354 --> 01:29:37.514
now we had it more self paced, but now
live again, of course and that just

01:29:37.554 --> 01:29:39.974
kind of, it's kind of just a little
bit of a checkpoint of like, is this

01:29:39.974 --> 01:29:41.214
something you want to go deeper with?

01:29:41.224 --> 01:29:42.804
Is this something that's working for you?

01:29:42.844 --> 01:29:45.154
So they actually get to
have the experience of it.

01:29:45.514 --> 01:29:47.804
And then I can have a little
bit of a conversation with them.

01:29:48.034 --> 01:29:50.904
As needed to find out if the
next step is right for them.

01:29:50.904 --> 01:29:55.264
So, so that we've got people coming
into the longer program who are at

01:29:55.294 --> 01:29:58.414
a place where like, we're pretty
sure this is where they need to be.

01:29:58.954 --> 01:30:02.864
But the other piece of that is
that I am a huge fan of iteration.

01:30:03.564 --> 01:30:05.994
So we have students who go back
to our course two and three

01:30:05.994 --> 01:30:09.834
times easily because when you go
through it, it hits you one way.

01:30:09.874 --> 01:30:10.834
And then once you've kind of.

01:30:11.069 --> 01:30:12.639
Gone through the whole arc of it.

01:30:12.639 --> 01:30:13.729
You're like, Oh, wait a minute.

01:30:13.739 --> 01:30:15.079
I need to go back to the beginning.

01:30:17.179 --> 01:30:18.739
And it lands differently.

01:30:18.769 --> 01:30:19.079
Right.

01:30:19.079 --> 01:30:21.669
And so then you can, you can go
through it multiple times and

01:30:21.669 --> 01:30:23.389
there's so much richness there.

01:30:23.629 --> 01:30:24.669
So there's that piece.

01:30:24.909 --> 01:30:28.739
But similar, you know, I, I came and
spent some time with you and you took

01:30:28.739 --> 01:30:33.589
me through like, Really basic stuff,
but it's important, which is like,

01:30:33.589 --> 01:30:35.029
here's how you walk with the horse.

01:30:35.869 --> 01:30:37.349
Can you walk in a straight line?

01:30:37.349 --> 01:30:37.469
Right.

01:30:37.479 --> 01:30:41.439
You did those checks with me to make
sure, because if we had progressed.

01:30:41.849 --> 01:30:44.379
And you were like, okay, let's jump
into this other thing over here.

01:30:44.379 --> 01:30:47.509
But we didn't check to make sure I
could actually balance and walk with a

01:30:47.509 --> 01:30:51.559
horse in these different configurations,
then I might've fallen over and

01:30:51.559 --> 01:30:52.539
it would have been a real problem.

01:30:52.889 --> 01:30:56.849
And so, you know, you, you did those
checks and it was important to do them.

01:30:57.159 --> 01:31:00.779
And it prepped my nervous system
for then doing it later, even

01:31:00.779 --> 01:31:01.999
though I was able to do it.

01:31:01.999 --> 01:31:02.299
Right.

01:31:02.979 --> 01:31:03.619
Similarly.

01:31:03.924 --> 01:31:07.954
When I'm going through this with people,
yeah, it might be basic information, but

01:31:07.954 --> 01:31:11.584
there's probably a few holes in there
for them, and it kind of sets them up.

01:31:11.584 --> 01:31:14.094
It gets their brain and their
body in the right state for the

01:31:14.094 --> 01:31:16.034
next piece and so on and so forth.

01:31:16.354 --> 01:31:20.224
So even if some of it isn't new for
people, I still think it's beneficial

01:31:20.494 --> 01:31:22.714
for everyone to go through all of it.

01:31:23.424 --> 01:31:24.294
Rupert Isaacson: No, I would agree.

01:31:24.294 --> 01:31:25.204
I mean, it's interesting.

01:31:25.464 --> 01:31:28.954
You, you talk about me checking
those basics with you when you came

01:31:28.954 --> 01:31:30.134
and worked with the horses with me.

01:31:30.574 --> 01:31:35.384
The reason I do that is because of course
I used to jump in further up and then

01:31:35.434 --> 01:31:39.494
I indeed did have people fall over and
things like that and go, Oh my gosh, I, I

01:31:39.854 --> 01:31:41.314
didn't know that that that was possible.

01:31:41.314 --> 01:31:47.984
I realized that I had to absolutely
check every step along the way because.

01:31:48.559 --> 01:31:52.409
If you didn't, there was almost a
negligence to it that because if someone

01:31:52.409 --> 01:31:53.389
can do it, well, they're fantastic.

01:31:53.399 --> 01:31:55.359
You just breeze through that
in five minutes and then you

01:31:55.359 --> 01:31:56.319
off you go to the next thing.

01:31:56.649 --> 01:32:00.849
And I'm also always thinking I'm
training someone to be a teacher.

01:32:01.299 --> 01:32:06.659
So I would like them to
do those checks as well.

01:32:06.969 --> 01:32:11.489
No matter how apparently experienced
the person in front of them is

01:32:11.489 --> 01:32:12.919
because you just don't know.

01:32:14.859 --> 01:32:20.249
But when you are teaching
is a time consuming thing.

01:32:22.594 --> 01:32:26.344
You now have a lot of people
signing up to your online

01:32:26.344 --> 01:32:27.434
courses about the nervous system.

01:32:27.434 --> 01:32:29.884
And by the way, listeners, we're
going to tell you how you can do

01:32:29.884 --> 01:32:31.414
that, and I really would recommend it.

01:32:32.094 --> 01:32:36.054
Learning about my nervous system happened
to me through my son's autism, and it

01:32:36.054 --> 01:32:40.969
was life changing for me in terms of
Me being able to have more agency in my

01:32:40.969 --> 01:32:46.069
own life having had to learn a bit about
it because of my son So I really really

01:32:46.089 --> 01:32:52.619
really really would recommend taking the
time to do a course with Suki But so how

01:32:52.619 --> 01:32:56.619
much time do you actually spend in your
day sitting in front of a zoom screen?

01:32:57.359 --> 01:32:58.819
Does it not take over your life?

01:32:58.819 --> 01:33:01.079
How do you how do you balance
that and you have horses?

01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:04.259
I know How do you find time to get
out to them because that does I

01:33:04.259 --> 01:33:07.189
know there's an awful lot of people
out there Wanting to do your stuff

01:33:08.249 --> 01:33:11.999
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well, and this
is a balancing act that I'm always

01:33:11.999 --> 01:33:16.679
working on because as you mentioned,
you know, I have to go 1st and and live

01:33:16.679 --> 01:33:20.759
my life in a way that works for me so
that I can share what that's like for,

01:33:20.979 --> 01:33:22.189
you know, people who want to do that.

01:33:22.189 --> 01:33:24.139
They're not gonna live my life,
but they're gonna live their life

01:33:24.139 --> 01:33:25.269
in a way that works for them.

01:33:25.869 --> 01:33:26.499
And.

01:33:26.814 --> 01:33:30.374
So I, I have to make choices in
my, in my work that allow me to

01:33:30.384 --> 01:33:31.914
have the lifestyle that I want.

01:33:31.914 --> 01:33:36.184
And that means, you know, both having
the finances that support me and allow

01:33:36.184 --> 01:33:39.654
me to live, but also the time freedom,
which is really important to me, because

01:33:39.664 --> 01:33:41.464
like you said, I have horses and.

01:33:42.209 --> 01:33:47.479
As much as I value the time that I did
in my practice and value the people

01:33:47.479 --> 01:33:51.229
that I was able to meet and work with
it was always very hard for me to have

01:33:51.229 --> 01:33:55.499
a life that was so heavily scheduled
because literally every hour and a

01:33:55.499 --> 01:33:58.739
half you've got a person coming in,
there's no flexibility there whatsoever.

01:33:59.099 --> 01:34:00.429
And that was really challenging.

01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:04.719
And I just, I think I hit a wall with
that where like, I sort of, I can't do it.

01:34:05.349 --> 01:34:07.979
So, so I'm very careful
to keep time freedom.

01:34:08.449 --> 01:34:10.889
So I've played with different
structures in my business.

01:34:10.909 --> 01:34:13.089
So, you know, my YouTube
videos are always available.

01:34:13.089 --> 01:34:16.309
So people can 24 seven go out there
and watch them, which is fantastic.

01:34:16.509 --> 01:34:18.959
Because people sometimes at one
in the morning, whatever that is

01:34:18.959 --> 01:34:20.069
for them are looking for that.

01:34:20.389 --> 01:34:20.699
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:34:20.739 --> 01:34:25.269
And what might watch and rewatch something
like I watch and rewatch stuff on YouTube.

01:34:25.524 --> 01:34:26.144
that I find interesting.

01:34:26.144 --> 01:34:29.084
I might watch it 10 times because
there's stuff in there I've missed.

01:34:29.234 --> 01:34:30.544
Yeah,

01:34:30.544 --> 01:34:31.094
Sukie Baxter: absolutely.

01:34:31.094 --> 01:34:32.224
So that's a resource for them.

01:34:32.224 --> 01:34:33.964
I have other resources like that as well.

01:34:34.014 --> 01:34:36.684
So there's things that people
can do on their own time and

01:34:36.724 --> 01:34:39.304
schedule, which don't require my
presence, which is really great.

01:34:39.444 --> 01:34:42.074
It also means they don't have to then
say the same things over and over

01:34:42.074 --> 01:34:43.649
again, because sometimes you're not

01:34:43.649 --> 01:34:46.024
Rupert Isaacson: getting paid for
that when they go and watch YouTube at

01:34:46.024 --> 01:34:47.484
this particular stage on that thing.

01:34:48.414 --> 01:34:48.504
I

01:34:48.504 --> 01:34:51.694
Sukie Baxter: mean, I, I
am, but not reliably, right?

01:34:51.704 --> 01:34:53.444
Like I don't base my business on that.

01:34:53.504 --> 01:34:56.144
So there's that element of
it, but then my courses.

01:34:56.174 --> 01:34:59.654
So that prerequisite course that I
mentioned, that's that entry level kind

01:34:59.654 --> 01:35:01.194
of first step course is self paced.

01:35:01.214 --> 01:35:02.984
So people again can access that.

01:35:03.304 --> 01:35:05.914
It's always there and it's always
a bit as of now, it's always

01:35:05.914 --> 01:35:07.004
there and always available.

01:35:07.034 --> 01:35:11.204
I don't have any plans to change that,
but someone can enroll in that at, at

01:35:11.244 --> 01:35:16.944
any time at their leisure and have that
course without me being there, walking

01:35:16.944 --> 01:35:18.654
them personally through every step.

01:35:18.654 --> 01:35:20.584
So that, that works for
both of us again, right?

01:35:20.584 --> 01:35:22.194
Cause they get the
entry level information.

01:35:22.604 --> 01:35:23.744
They're getting the practices.

01:35:23.754 --> 01:35:24.964
They're getting their learning.

01:35:25.194 --> 01:35:27.774
They're setting themselves up
for further work if they want to,

01:35:27.774 --> 01:35:29.444
if that's the path they choose.

01:35:29.604 --> 01:35:33.224
And then again, I have that time
freedom where I've provided that for

01:35:33.224 --> 01:35:36.924
them and then I can be working with my
horses, teaching people, helping at a

01:35:36.924 --> 01:35:39.744
clinic, you know, doing something else,
maybe working with a client when I'm

01:35:39.744 --> 01:35:43.254
with, you know, it allows me almost to
duplicate myself, which is fantastic.

01:35:43.584 --> 01:35:43.604
Yeah.

01:35:44.524 --> 01:35:47.534
And then the course that I'm
teaching live, that was a difficult

01:35:47.554 --> 01:35:49.874
decision because I've made it
self paced for that reason, right?

01:35:49.874 --> 01:35:53.704
Like, you absolutely can go
through this material on your own

01:35:53.714 --> 01:35:55.094
and it has worked for students.

01:35:55.454 --> 01:36:00.294
But in observing my students, I felt
it was in their best interest to reset

01:36:00.314 --> 01:36:01.584
and actually teach it live again.

01:36:02.054 --> 01:36:04.114
So this year, I made
that decision to do it.

01:36:04.114 --> 01:36:06.394
But when I made that decision,
I sat with it for a couple of

01:36:06.394 --> 01:36:08.134
months before I decided to do it.

01:36:08.674 --> 01:36:13.534
And then when I decided to do it, I
looked at when in the year am I okay

01:36:13.534 --> 01:36:18.409
with Basically being on every week
and having to consistently show up

01:36:18.429 --> 01:36:22.929
and teach and, and I'm okay with that,
but I don't, I don't want to do it

01:36:23.499 --> 01:36:27.599
every week of the year, all year long,
because again, I need some time freedom.

01:36:27.919 --> 01:36:29.959
I need the ability to
travel and do workshops.

01:36:29.959 --> 01:36:31.429
I need the ability to travel for my own.

01:36:32.029 --> 01:36:33.649
Learning and my own enjoyment.

01:36:33.699 --> 01:36:36.359
I, you know, I need the ability
to have some flexibility.

01:36:36.629 --> 01:36:40.709
So I picked basically, we're gonna
have two courses this year, and

01:36:40.739 --> 01:36:45.319
they're each 12 weeks in length, and
I picked times where I am okay with

01:36:45.329 --> 01:36:49.279
having to be in front of the computer
more during those times of year.

01:36:49.969 --> 01:36:50.289
So

01:36:50.469 --> 01:36:51.519
Rupert Isaacson: when
are those times of year?

01:36:51.519 --> 01:36:52.239
When are you doing them?

01:36:52.899 --> 01:36:56.989
Sukie Baxter: So our, our first run
through will be basically we've divided it

01:36:57.009 --> 01:37:00.319
up because we have so many practitioners
in our group and there was a profound need

01:37:00.329 --> 01:37:01.799
for more mentorship for practitioners.

01:37:01.819 --> 01:37:05.769
So our, our personal course, so if you
want to do this journey for yourself,

01:37:05.799 --> 01:37:09.269
whether you are a professional or
not our personal nerve apprenticeship

01:37:09.299 --> 01:37:12.769
course will be taking place starting
in March and it will run for 12 weeks.

01:37:13.334 --> 01:37:16.774
And then people who are in that who
are professionals and would like to

01:37:16.774 --> 01:37:20.024
get practitioner mentorship and, and
start to learn how to apply it to

01:37:20.024 --> 01:37:21.604
their own clients more intentionally.

01:37:21.824 --> 01:37:25.164
That aspect of the course will
start in September of this year.

01:37:25.184 --> 01:37:27.844
And again, it will run for 12
weeks, although there's a break

01:37:27.844 --> 01:37:28.674
in the middle for holidays.

01:37:28.674 --> 01:37:30.634
So it's technically over
the course of 13 weeks.

01:37:30.634 --> 01:37:36.904
Rupert Isaacson: So for 24 weeks of the
year, effectively half the year, spring

01:37:36.904 --> 01:37:39.404
and fall, you're on, you're going to be.

01:37:40.029 --> 01:37:41.759
live and direct doing that.

01:37:42.429 --> 01:37:42.859
Okay.

01:37:43.399 --> 01:37:43.929
And

01:37:47.129 --> 01:37:52.219
that's when you do that, how many hours
of your day does that take up and what's

01:37:52.219 --> 01:37:53.539
its effect on your nervous system?

01:37:53.629 --> 01:37:54.589
Yeah,

01:37:54.869 --> 01:37:57.209
Sukie Baxter: it's that's such a
good question because it takes up

01:37:57.249 --> 01:37:59.689
so many more hours than the actual
hours that I'm teaching, right?

01:37:59.689 --> 01:38:02.319
Because I'm preparing a
presentation materials.

01:38:02.349 --> 01:38:05.699
I am, as one of my friends calls
it, I'm in the parking lot of it.

01:38:05.699 --> 01:38:06.759
So, like, I'm thinking about it.

01:38:06.759 --> 01:38:06.969
Right?

01:38:06.969 --> 01:38:10.379
So even if all the presentation materials
are done and I'm like, ready to go, I'm

01:38:10.389 --> 01:38:15.299
still like, putting my brain in that
lane to an extent for quite a while

01:38:15.299 --> 01:38:17.209
before and after any kind of course.

01:38:17.219 --> 01:38:24.499
So it probably takes up
at least 20 hours a week.

01:38:24.789 --> 01:38:25.039
Yeah.

01:38:27.074 --> 01:38:30.234
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, and that's
not including one to ones that

01:38:30.244 --> 01:38:33.034
you're doing, consultancies that
you're doing, and other things.

01:38:33.034 --> 01:38:36.444
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you put
it all together, it's a working week.

01:38:37.354 --> 01:38:39.694
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, it is, it
is, because there's also, that's

01:38:39.694 --> 01:38:42.149
not the only thing that, as you
know, it takes to run a business.

01:38:42.149 --> 01:38:42.336
Right,

01:38:42.336 --> 01:38:44.784
Rupert Isaacson: and you've got to, and
you've got to create the material and

01:38:44.784 --> 01:38:46.474
film it, and script it and all that.

01:38:46.944 --> 01:38:49.984
But you are living free and
writing free through this.

01:38:50.474 --> 01:38:51.994
Sukie Baxter: And I, and I like my work.

01:38:51.994 --> 01:38:53.544
I think that's really
important too, right?

01:38:53.584 --> 01:38:54.794
So, like, this isn't.

01:38:55.804 --> 01:38:58.954
Yes, I'm sacrificing some time, but
it's not, I don't look at it as a

01:38:58.984 --> 01:39:02.134
sacrifice because I also get the
joy of working with my students.

01:39:02.204 --> 01:39:05.354
I get the joy of putting
my head in this material.

01:39:05.354 --> 01:39:07.464
Like, the reason I'm doing this
is because I like what I teach.

01:39:07.474 --> 01:39:10.704
It's not, it's not so that I can
like sit on a beach and drink Coronas

01:39:10.704 --> 01:39:11.694
and collect a paycheck, right?

01:39:11.694 --> 01:39:12.704
I love what I do.

01:39:12.904 --> 01:39:13.514
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:39:13.554 --> 01:39:14.634
No, I couldn't agree more.

01:39:14.714 --> 01:39:15.474
I love my work.

01:39:15.524 --> 01:39:17.474
You know, I am my work.

01:39:17.474 --> 01:39:20.454
I can't live any other way.

01:39:20.454 --> 01:39:23.134
I, yeah, I dig what I do.

01:39:26.469 --> 01:39:31.069
Do you think that getting in touch with
your nervous system and learning about

01:39:31.129 --> 01:39:33.639
it properly helps you to dig what you do?

01:39:34.169 --> 01:39:38.029
I mean, I think for so many people that
is the dream to not feel a fuck, you

01:39:38.029 --> 01:39:40.579
know Sorry, I said fuck but you know,
it's my podcast I can say that's many

01:39:40.579 --> 01:39:45.079
times I want but you don't you know, we
do not want to be thinking that when we

01:39:45.079 --> 01:39:48.169
wake up in the morning and Go to work.

01:39:48.669 --> 01:39:52.909
We all go through some phases in our
lives where that's been the case and

01:39:52.909 --> 01:39:57.079
I think that a bit of time in those
trenches is character building, but

01:39:57.559 --> 01:39:59.009
we don't want to stay there forever.

01:40:00.249 --> 01:40:03.929
What do you think is the, if people do
want to live free and ride free, they

01:40:03.929 --> 01:40:06.809
want to break free and they want to
self actualize and all these things.

01:40:08.419 --> 01:40:13.489
The professional expression of
that, what we do for a job is Of

01:40:13.489 --> 01:40:16.559
course, really important because
that's what's going to give us the

01:40:16.559 --> 01:40:17.569
livelihood to be able to do that.

01:40:17.919 --> 01:40:24.399
What do you think is the thing that
people could find the most helpful about

01:40:24.399 --> 01:40:28.059
knowing about their nervous systems
that can help free them towards that?

01:40:31.819 --> 01:40:32.539
Big question.

01:40:33.179 --> 01:40:33.849
Sukie Baxter: It is.

01:40:33.859 --> 01:40:34.979
It's a big question.

01:40:34.989 --> 01:40:42.199
I think that I think that tapping
into desire is really important.

01:40:43.549 --> 01:40:47.609
And I talk about this in my program,
because as I mentioned, we cannot

01:40:47.649 --> 01:40:50.749
exist on a spectrum of like this
thing that's unpleasant and then

01:40:50.749 --> 01:40:52.039
nothingness on the other side.

01:40:52.079 --> 01:40:55.789
So if we remove pain, if we remove
anxiety, if we remove whatever

01:40:55.789 --> 01:40:58.259
it is that we are like this,
this sense, this feeling, this

01:40:58.259 --> 01:40:59.819
experience I'm having is unpleasant.

01:40:59.819 --> 01:41:00.349
I don't like it.

01:41:00.369 --> 01:41:01.369
I want something different.

01:41:02.249 --> 01:41:05.519
The universe of course, the vacuum,
you can't just take that out of

01:41:05.519 --> 01:41:06.919
a person's experience and then.

01:41:07.459 --> 01:41:07.959
They're fine.

01:41:08.019 --> 01:41:11.619
Like you have to put something there
and I, I think desire is, is where

01:41:11.619 --> 01:41:17.159
it lives and we have been so deeply
conditioned to not trust ourselves

01:41:17.319 --> 01:41:19.299
around desire and in so many ways.

01:41:19.329 --> 01:41:19.609
Yes.

01:41:19.609 --> 01:41:23.349
With, you know, love and attraction,
but like food, you know, like we've been

01:41:23.349 --> 01:41:25.009
taught, we have to measure and weigh and.

01:41:25.509 --> 01:41:28.519
And, you know, like we can't trust
that we, the thing we want to eat,

01:41:28.549 --> 01:41:31.339
like, you know, that our bodies
will lead us astray, essentially.

01:41:31.839 --> 01:41:33.239
And those are just simple examples,

01:41:33.239 --> 01:41:34.469
Rupert Isaacson: but
taking a nap is a sign of

01:41:34.469 --> 01:41:35.309
Sukie Baxter: weakness or something.

01:41:35.339 --> 01:41:35.919
Yes.

01:41:35.949 --> 01:41:39.569
I mean, in so many ways we,
we so beat ourselves up for

01:41:39.569 --> 01:41:41.199
wanting things that nourish us.

01:41:41.789 --> 01:41:43.679
And we've been conditioned to believe this

01:41:43.729 --> 01:41:45.279
Rupert Isaacson: great
means for social control.

01:41:45.989 --> 01:41:46.509
It

01:41:46.519 --> 01:41:47.499
Sukie Baxter: really is.

01:41:47.499 --> 01:41:51.459
And working in those factories,
when you have people who are, this

01:41:51.459 --> 01:41:52.879
gets into something I talk about.

01:41:53.279 --> 01:41:56.819
A lot too, which is that when you have
a society of people who are dissociated

01:41:56.849 --> 01:42:00.609
from their felt self, physical selves,
right, their sense of self, literally our

01:42:00.609 --> 01:42:05.119
sense of ourself, how we feel ourselves
if you have a, sorry, there's sirens

01:42:05.119 --> 01:42:08.439
I don't know if you can hear that, but
if you have a society of people who

01:42:08.459 --> 01:42:12.259
cannot feel themselves, they're, they're
divorced from their sense of self,

01:42:12.569 --> 01:42:14.889
then they will feel anxiety, right?

01:42:14.889 --> 01:42:17.469
So, so I look at the science
around like amputees.

01:42:18.034 --> 01:42:18.644
The pain science.

01:42:18.704 --> 01:42:18.834
Right.

01:42:18.834 --> 01:42:22.674
If you cut off someone's limb and
your brain can no longer locate

01:42:22.674 --> 01:42:26.814
it, then your brain's like, Holy
crap, this is really dangerous.

01:42:26.934 --> 01:42:30.474
And you get these weird phantom
limb pains because your brain's

01:42:30.474 --> 01:42:31.984
like, I got to map that somehow.

01:42:31.984 --> 01:42:34.484
And I'm going to tell you that
something, something's really wrong here.

01:42:34.484 --> 01:42:35.244
I can't feel it.

01:42:35.264 --> 01:42:39.094
So I'm going to set, I'm going to
push the pain button to tell you.

01:42:39.644 --> 01:42:40.384
That it's hurting.

01:42:40.664 --> 01:42:43.854
Even though there's no actual limb there
to tell you that it's painful, but your

01:42:43.854 --> 01:42:45.554
brain is deciding that there's pain.

01:42:45.924 --> 01:42:51.194
And I think that when we divorce ourselves
from our sense of self, when we can't

01:42:51.234 --> 01:42:55.584
feel ourselves which we are taught to do,
we're taught to numb out all the time.

01:42:56.434 --> 01:43:00.484
We feel this sense of doom and
anxiety around it, and then we become

01:43:00.484 --> 01:43:04.824
very steerable, because we will be
sold anything to make that go away.

01:43:04.854 --> 01:43:11.684
And that is an object, like, you
know, fashion, or a car, or jewelry,

01:43:11.684 --> 01:43:13.404
or, you know, something like that.

01:43:13.624 --> 01:43:15.394
Rupert Isaacson: So it's where the
pain goes for ten minutes, yeah.

01:43:15.694 --> 01:43:17.664
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, but
it's also ideologies.

01:43:18.524 --> 01:43:19.114
Yes.

01:43:19.814 --> 01:43:23.734
You get a very steerable group of
people because we will, we will

01:43:23.734 --> 01:43:26.954
buy ideologies that make us feel
better, that make that pain go away.

01:43:27.224 --> 01:43:33.174
And I think when you start to get
people back into their own physical

01:43:33.174 --> 01:43:38.974
bodies and their own felt sense,
we become much less steerable.

01:43:39.884 --> 01:43:43.264
And then when you get people
hooked up to desire, I think that's

01:43:43.264 --> 01:43:43.984
Rupert Isaacson: world changing.

01:43:44.064 --> 01:43:47.034
Now when you say desire, do
you mean aspirational desire?

01:43:47.034 --> 01:43:51.034
I desire to write a novel.

01:43:51.619 --> 01:43:58.439
Or do you mean desire as in, I desire that
cupcake right now, or do you mean both?

01:43:59.409 --> 01:44:00.039
I mean both.

01:44:00.379 --> 01:44:00.789
Sukie Baxter: Okay.

01:44:01.199 --> 01:44:03.349
And usually it starts with, I
desire that cupcake right now.

01:44:03.349 --> 01:44:08.949
But it's also, you know, desire is
not it's not simple either because I

01:44:08.949 --> 01:44:11.929
think people think, well, if I just
let myself do whatever I want, then

01:44:11.929 --> 01:44:13.669
I'll eat a dozen cupcakes every day.

01:44:14.429 --> 01:44:19.179
But the reality is that if you actually
let yourself do what you want over, you

01:44:19.179 --> 01:44:22.139
know, and this is a condensed version of
this, but if you actually let yourself

01:44:22.139 --> 01:44:26.529
do whatever you want over the course of
time, then you will find that desires

01:44:26.529 --> 01:44:30.269
have hierarchy because I might want
to eat a dozen cupcakes every day, but

01:44:30.279 --> 01:44:33.469
I don't want to feel the way I feel
after I eat a dozen cupcakes every day.

01:44:33.789 --> 01:44:37.019
And so my actual desire
is to feel really good.

01:44:37.039 --> 01:44:38.289
And at the essence, that's all.

01:44:38.634 --> 01:44:40.344
What we all want is to feel really good.

01:44:40.574 --> 01:44:45.154
And so my desire will actually lead me
to choices that make me feel really good.

01:44:45.284 --> 01:44:50.114
My desire will lead me to a salad, because
I know I feel good after I eat vegetables.

01:44:52.114 --> 01:44:52.484
If

01:44:52.554 --> 01:45:00.904
Rupert Isaacson: our desire to feel good
is at the root of self actualization, and

01:45:01.284 --> 01:45:06.324
I can see why it would be, because after
all, the vehicle that we're going around

01:45:06.324 --> 01:45:09.529
in, is either running well or it's not.

01:45:10.109 --> 01:45:13.839
And if it's not running well,
it's less likely to take us to

01:45:13.839 --> 01:45:15.969
the place where we want to go.

01:45:16.629 --> 01:45:21.719
Is the real key, oddly enough, becoming
a friend to your body, is that the

01:45:21.719 --> 01:45:24.789
real key of self actualization?

01:45:26.179 --> 01:45:26.759
To

01:45:29.979 --> 01:45:37.369
actually learn your body's needs, and
respect them, and nurture them, and

01:45:37.399 --> 01:45:41.519
treat yourself like a loved flower bed.

01:45:42.309 --> 01:45:46.409
Rather than like, picked
over soccer field.

01:45:47.149 --> 01:45:49.959
Is that, is that really where it lies?

01:45:50.549 --> 01:45:54.939
Because what else, and if it does, what
is that but the nervous system really?

01:45:57.569 --> 01:45:58.319
I couldn't have said it better.

01:46:01.749 --> 01:46:02.859
Is that what you meant?

01:46:03.299 --> 01:46:08.379
Because I, I wrote down at the beginning,
I wanted to ask you, you talked about

01:46:08.439 --> 01:46:11.569
sensing and the importance of sensing.

01:46:11.569 --> 01:46:14.349
Is that what sensing, is that
what you mean by sensing?

01:46:15.019 --> 01:46:18.849
Is learning to make friends with your
body to the point where you can learn?

01:46:19.699 --> 01:46:27.549
Identify that you can have then,
what's the word, appropriate responses

01:46:27.549 --> 01:46:29.169
to things in your nervous system.

01:46:30.719 --> 01:46:33.589
So that whether it's, well I
don't have to walk around feeling

01:46:33.589 --> 01:46:37.719
traumatized all the time because I'm
actually not in danger right now.

01:46:39.159 --> 01:46:42.849
As opposed to something traumatic happened
to me, I therefore am going to walk around

01:46:42.849 --> 01:46:44.099
with a sense of trauma for 30 years.

01:46:46.299 --> 01:46:52.129
To, I would like to have a nap every
afternoon but I feel that I can't.

01:46:52.819 --> 01:46:57.149
Because somehow that's letting the
team down, even though I kind of

01:46:57.149 --> 01:47:02.579
know that I'm play a better game
when I do, but I am tired right now.

01:47:02.579 --> 01:47:06.469
I'm just going to burn through
my tiredness for 50 years.

01:47:07.909 --> 01:47:18.029
Is sensing, does sensing become possible
when you begin to identify the nervous

01:47:18.039 --> 01:47:22.579
system's needs and what they're telling
you respond appropriately to them?

01:47:22.579 --> 01:47:25.219
And then can you just get
more and more subtle with that

01:47:28.869 --> 01:47:32.689
until the blocks to your desire?

01:47:34.304 --> 01:47:37.034
Melt away, because I know that, and
I'm talking so much right now, and

01:47:37.034 --> 01:47:39.914
I will stop in a minute, but I'm,
I'm, I'm just, this, this is all one

01:47:39.914 --> 01:47:41.964
question that I'm trying to pose to you.

01:47:43.674 --> 01:47:46.864
A lot of us have a, have a very
love hate relationship with desire,

01:47:47.734 --> 01:47:51.384
because there are, there are
things that we know that we desire.

01:47:52.614 --> 01:47:56.154
Let's say it's writing a novel that
you know that you would feel so

01:47:56.154 --> 01:47:59.844
fulfilled if you did that, but you feel
completely blocked from doing that,

01:47:59.844 --> 01:48:01.769
because you feel You're not good enough.

01:48:01.769 --> 01:48:02.549
You're not worthy of it.

01:48:02.559 --> 01:48:03.219
You couldn't do it.

01:48:03.219 --> 01:48:04.239
You haven't got the time for it.

01:48:04.249 --> 01:48:06.209
There's this, the that,
the da da da da da da.

01:48:06.509 --> 01:48:08.449
You look up years go by and
you haven't written that novel.

01:48:09.279 --> 01:48:11.369
But you, the desire hasn't gone away.

01:48:11.599 --> 01:48:12.809
The desire is now painful.

01:48:13.719 --> 01:48:18.039
So the desire is now a sense of failure
and a sense of so you push it away.

01:48:18.039 --> 01:48:20.389
And then I want to go
do heroin or whatever.

01:48:20.879 --> 01:48:27.389
I am sensing the distress in my nervous
system from that thwarted desire.

01:48:28.209 --> 01:48:30.259
So, and heroin will certainly.

01:48:30.604 --> 01:48:31.784
Make me feel better for a little bit.

01:48:31.904 --> 01:48:32.854
How?

01:48:37.364 --> 01:48:42.454
So, so, so, is it the learning of the
nervous system that gives one the chance?

01:48:43.904 --> 01:48:47.964
to sense what one truly needs.

01:48:47.974 --> 01:48:54.464
So if I want to write that novel and
not do heroin, do I need to learn how

01:48:54.464 --> 01:48:56.924
to actually address what my nervous
system needs and then I've actually got

01:48:56.924 --> 01:48:58.154
a better chance of writing that novel?

01:48:59.854 --> 01:49:01.834
Sukie Baxter: Yeah, well I think
it's a more complicated question.

01:49:01.844 --> 01:49:03.074
I love where you're going with this.

01:49:04.769 --> 01:49:08.209
But say you want to write a novel,
so I would be wondering, like,

01:49:08.459 --> 01:49:10.269
why do you want to write a novel?

01:49:10.269 --> 01:49:12.139
Because that's a really
interesting question, right?

01:49:12.299 --> 01:49:15.679
Is it because you want to write, because
you have something in you that you care to

01:49:15.679 --> 01:49:17.689
share, that you want to get down on paper?

01:49:18.359 --> 01:49:23.449
It's important to you to get
something that's been formulating out.

01:49:23.729 --> 01:49:27.549
Or is it that you want to write a novel
because you require the recognition

01:49:27.569 --> 01:49:31.029
of saying, I've written a book and you
want to be able to walk into a room?

01:49:31.434 --> 01:49:36.254
And, and that's, those, those are
something I talk about is the same thing.

01:49:36.454 --> 01:49:40.004
Can it can be exactly the same
act, but it can be completely

01:49:40.004 --> 01:49:41.184
different motivations, right?

01:49:41.204 --> 01:49:42.884
So two people can run up a Hill.

01:49:43.184 --> 01:49:45.794
One person's running up a Hill
because they really love to run.

01:49:45.804 --> 01:49:46.414
It feels good.

01:49:46.414 --> 01:49:47.344
They love how they feel.

01:49:47.614 --> 01:49:49.304
After they run, they love
the feeling of strength.

01:49:49.304 --> 01:49:50.944
And yes, it's really hard in the moment.

01:49:50.944 --> 01:49:53.804
And maybe they kind of are resistant
because, you know, they know that they're

01:49:53.804 --> 01:49:56.764
going to breathe hard and be sore and
you know, it's uncomfortable, but they,

01:49:56.774 --> 01:50:01.164
they do it because they are, they love
that aspect of their physical fitness.

01:50:01.644 --> 01:50:04.974
Another person might be running up
that hill because they're mad at

01:50:04.974 --> 01:50:06.494
themselves for eating a dozen cupcakes.

01:50:06.514 --> 01:50:11.304
And they feel that they have to somehow
atone for food that they ate, but they

01:50:11.304 --> 01:50:12.384
really don't want to run up the hill.

01:50:12.384 --> 01:50:14.054
They're doing it almost as
punishment for themselves.

01:50:14.429 --> 01:50:17.959
Two people running up the hill
looks exactly the same, two people

01:50:17.959 --> 01:50:20.999
writing a novel looks exactly the
same, but what's the motivation,

01:50:20.999 --> 01:50:22.359
what's the drive behind it, right?

01:50:22.379 --> 01:50:25.619
So that's, I think when we talk
about desire, we have to talk

01:50:25.629 --> 01:50:26.909
about intrinsic motivation.

01:50:26.909 --> 01:50:28.819
What are we intrinsically motivated to do?

01:50:28.819 --> 01:50:31.199
What is it that we are
doing for its own reward?

01:50:31.699 --> 01:50:35.329
So if you are a person who loves
to sit down and write, like there's

01:50:35.349 --> 01:50:37.509
nourishment in that process for you.

01:50:38.719 --> 01:50:40.049
Then you can break it down.

01:50:40.049 --> 01:50:42.389
It's not that writing
the novel is the thing.

01:50:42.409 --> 01:50:43.739
It's the sitting down and writing.

01:50:43.739 --> 01:50:45.529
Well, how can you do that
for two minutes a day?

01:50:46.424 --> 01:50:47.844
How can you do that
for five minutes a day?

01:50:47.844 --> 01:50:49.604
How can you find space for that?

01:50:49.934 --> 01:50:51.494
How can you write it on post it notes?

01:50:51.494 --> 01:50:56.174
How, you know, whatever it is for that
person, how can I, how can I make sure

01:50:56.174 --> 01:51:00.254
that I'm getting the nourishment of
this thing that fulfills me in my life?

01:51:00.284 --> 01:51:04.094
And the more that we make choices to
do the things that nourish us, the

01:51:04.094 --> 01:51:07.674
more we are in alignment with the life
that is true to us, which again, looks

01:51:07.674 --> 01:51:09.644
different for every single person.

01:51:11.074 --> 01:51:12.784
Rupert Isaacson: And you
use the word nourishment.

01:51:14.234 --> 01:51:17.344
Nourishment is also a
physical thing, food.

01:51:18.384 --> 01:51:20.754
Food goes into us.

01:51:20.914 --> 01:51:23.144
We, we, we sense that we are hungry.

01:51:23.644 --> 01:51:25.364
What is telling us that we are hungry?

01:51:25.404 --> 01:51:26.834
Presumably our nervous system.

01:51:27.264 --> 01:51:27.674
Yes.

01:51:28.024 --> 01:51:29.944
What is telling us when we're full?

01:51:30.384 --> 01:51:31.944
Presumably our nervous system.

01:51:32.694 --> 01:51:37.004
What is telling us actually that dozen
cupcakes made me feel a bit sick?

01:51:38.314 --> 01:51:39.714
Presumably our nervous system.

01:51:40.334 --> 01:51:41.744
Sukie Baxter: It's, it
goes back to sensing.

01:51:42.014 --> 01:51:42.644
You're sensing it.

01:51:42.644 --> 01:51:45.104
It's, it's the physical
sensations that you have.

01:51:45.104 --> 01:51:46.034
It's how we know everything.

01:51:46.034 --> 01:51:46.244
Right.

01:51:46.244 --> 01:51:49.324
It, I think this is also kind of a
revelation for people, but all of

01:51:49.324 --> 01:51:51.244
our emotions are physical sensations.

01:51:51.244 --> 01:51:52.294
Those are just labeled.

01:51:52.504 --> 01:51:53.074
Rupert Isaacson: It's true.

01:51:53.169 --> 01:51:53.539
It's true.

01:51:53.569 --> 01:51:53.859
Yeah.

01:51:53.864 --> 01:51:53.884
Yeah.

01:51:54.334 --> 01:51:54.874
It's true.

01:51:54.874 --> 01:51:58.534
And we, we can, some of them are actually
physical, physically painful, and some of

01:51:58.539 --> 01:51:59.854
'em are actually physically, you're right.

01:52:00.454 --> 01:52:00.544
Mm-Hmm.

01:52:01.174 --> 01:52:03.544
, are thoughts physical?

01:52:03.954 --> 01:52:04.854
I guess they must be right.

01:52:05.564 --> 01:52:06.954
Sukie Baxter: Thoughts
are sensory information.

01:52:06.954 --> 01:52:10.214
So typically when you have a thought,
you'll also have a corresponding

01:52:10.214 --> 01:52:11.504
physical reaction to that.

01:52:11.524 --> 01:52:15.324
So, maybe a facial expression, maybe
a certain tension or a posture.

01:52:15.534 --> 01:52:18.594
It might even just be like a twinge
in, you know, somewhere in your

01:52:18.634 --> 01:52:22.124
inside somewhere maybe a shortening
of breath or more fullness of breath.

01:52:22.124 --> 01:52:22.284
Right?

01:52:22.314 --> 01:52:25.834
So different thoughts will, will
impact us, which is where we get

01:52:25.834 --> 01:52:28.294
the, Oh, if I think a thought,
my body will respond in this way.

01:52:28.294 --> 01:52:29.064
That's true.

01:52:29.654 --> 01:52:31.654
They're, they're interconnected,
but it's two ways.

01:52:31.824 --> 01:52:32.704
It's a two way street.

01:52:34.494 --> 01:52:35.924
Rupert Isaacson: So if I want to nourish.

01:52:36.449 --> 01:52:42.879
Myself, then I need to become a friend
to my nervous system, which means

01:52:42.879 --> 01:52:46.189
I then have to know what it needs.

01:52:50.829 --> 01:52:58.639
We are coming up on the over
two hour mark, and I want to

01:52:59.199 --> 01:53:00.769
continue this conversation.

01:53:00.969 --> 01:53:06.199
I'd like to have you on again, because
I feel that we're all of the rabbit

01:53:06.199 --> 01:53:07.789
holes that need to go be gone down.

01:53:10.229 --> 01:53:14.919
If we're coming towards wrapping
up this part of what I hope

01:53:14.919 --> 01:53:16.109
will be a longer conversation.

01:53:18.229 --> 01:53:23.039
And we want to become, to nourish
the nervous system, become friends

01:53:23.039 --> 01:53:25.389
with the body and nourish the nervous
system so that all these other

01:53:25.389 --> 01:53:29.179
things that we talked about can
flirt out from our nervous system.

01:53:31.589 --> 01:53:40.509
What are the basic steps that you
think any homo sapiens sapiens alive

01:53:40.539 --> 01:53:46.949
on planet earth would do well to take?

01:53:49.279 --> 01:53:51.519
Sukie Baxter: I think that
the foundational step is to

01:53:51.539 --> 01:53:56.439
develop The ability to describe
your sensory experience.

01:53:56.449 --> 01:53:58.419
Notice and describe
your sensory experience.

01:53:58.509 --> 01:54:03.459
So, in 15 years of working with
people, I would ask the question you

01:54:03.459 --> 01:54:07.599
know, essentially, I was looking for,
like, what in your body or, you know,

01:54:07.609 --> 01:54:10.229
what's your sensory experience in your
body, but I would ask that in various

01:54:10.229 --> 01:54:11.529
ways of like, what are you noticing?

01:54:11.529 --> 01:54:12.669
What has your attention?

01:54:12.909 --> 01:54:13.589
I try to avoid.

01:54:13.589 --> 01:54:14.329
What do you feel?

01:54:14.329 --> 01:54:19.569
Because people then usually kind of go
off into emotions sometimes, not always.

01:54:19.899 --> 01:54:19.974
Yeah.

01:54:20.404 --> 01:54:25.964
But it's really challenging for a
whole society of people who've been

01:54:25.964 --> 01:54:31.084
conditioned not to notice our bodies,
to dismiss our bodies, to You know,

01:54:32.744 --> 01:54:35.044
basically, yeah, overrides a great word.

01:54:35.044 --> 01:54:36.274
Override everything's happening.

01:54:36.364 --> 01:54:39.674
I mean, literally, you know,
when you're a child, they

01:54:39.674 --> 01:54:41.604
condition you to not move, right?

01:54:41.814 --> 01:54:43.274
So you get, you get recess.

01:54:43.274 --> 01:54:44.894
It's a, it's a short period of time.

01:54:45.539 --> 01:54:47.329
That you get to run
around and then the rest

01:54:47.329 --> 01:54:48.599
Rupert Isaacson: of the
time you are in the toilet.

01:54:48.599 --> 01:54:49.309
Yeah,

01:54:49.309 --> 01:54:50.019
Sukie Baxter: sure.

01:54:50.019 --> 01:54:50.169
Yeah.

01:54:50.169 --> 01:54:52.419
And, and your food, you know,
you can't eat when you're hungry.

01:54:52.419 --> 01:54:54.259
You can't go to the bathroom when
you need to go to the bathroom.

01:54:54.259 --> 01:54:55.749
You can't move when you
feel the urge to move.

01:54:55.919 --> 01:54:58.129
You basically take every urge
that you feel in your body

01:54:58.399 --> 01:54:59.599
and you just suppress it.

01:55:00.249 --> 01:55:01.769
And, and then we become very good at this.

01:55:01.799 --> 01:55:04.489
Well, that's a useful skill because
you can't always just, you know,

01:55:04.659 --> 01:55:07.619
do whatever, whenever if you're on
an airplane, you can't, you know,

01:55:07.619 --> 01:55:08.779
run around like a crazy person.

01:55:08.779 --> 01:55:09.639
There's just not enough room.

01:55:10.039 --> 01:55:10.579
But.

01:55:11.289 --> 01:55:14.409
Getting back to a place where you can,
like you said, become a friend to your

01:55:14.409 --> 01:55:17.859
nervous system requires noticing what
your nervous system is telling you.

01:55:18.459 --> 01:55:22.239
And I have found that the people who
develop what I call sensory skills, which

01:55:22.239 --> 01:55:26.259
is the ability to sense and describe
your nervous system state do best

01:55:26.319 --> 01:55:30.359
with nervous system work, they, they
tend to have the most benefit from it.

01:55:30.759 --> 01:55:32.639
So I emphasize that in
the work that I teach.

01:55:32.639 --> 01:55:35.909
And I think it's just a foundational
skill that if we taught this

01:55:35.919 --> 01:55:37.469
to kids, I think we would have.

01:55:38.039 --> 01:55:39.959
You know, more productive conversations.

01:55:39.959 --> 01:55:41.199
I think we would have healthier adults,

01:55:42.919 --> 01:55:43.349
Rupert Isaacson: right?

01:55:43.399 --> 01:55:47.899
And probably better economies because
people are productive when they're

01:55:48.289 --> 01:55:53.169
Sukie Baxter: happy Yeah, and I think we'd
have a more peaceful world to that old

01:55:53.209 --> 01:55:53.499
Rupert Isaacson: thing.

01:55:55.289 --> 01:56:05.849
Yes, that would be nice Okay
Stencing is listening, right?

01:56:09.129 --> 01:56:09.369
So

01:56:09.369 --> 01:56:11.089
Sukie Baxter: noticing
it's it's attending.

01:56:11.099 --> 01:56:12.419
It's having attention towards something,

01:56:13.349 --> 01:56:13.949
Rupert Isaacson: right?

01:56:16.009 --> 01:56:19.109
when we pick this conversation up
again and listen as we're going

01:56:19.109 --> 01:56:23.274
to we're gonna plunder that suki
mind as much as we possibly can.

01:56:23.764 --> 01:56:24.664
That suki mind.

01:56:25.254 --> 01:56:32.094
I would like to talk more about sensing
and listening because I feel that that

01:56:32.274 --> 01:56:36.834
is, if the nervous system's at the
root of everything and it is sensing

01:56:36.834 --> 01:56:39.644
and listening, right, it is to listen.

01:56:39.644 --> 01:56:43.484
To hear is a sense, to feel is a sense,
but it's all taking in the information.

01:56:44.484 --> 01:56:50.014
Noticing, as you say, it sounds
such a banal thing to notice.

01:56:50.749 --> 01:56:54.979
But as you say, we're taught to
override on notice, which means we're

01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:56.499
taught to override our intuition.

01:56:57.119 --> 01:57:03.019
Which means that we might not sense when
someone is scamming us, or whatever,

01:57:03.019 --> 01:57:05.149
because our intuition is suppressed.

01:57:06.049 --> 01:57:07.759
Presumably that's not helpful.

01:57:11.159 --> 01:57:20.984
How do we What nervous system work can we
do to get back to that more optimal state

01:57:21.904 --> 01:57:29.094
where we can sense, kind of, correct,
navigate, perhaps, better through life.

01:57:30.744 --> 01:57:34.104
Can we pick that up next

01:57:34.344 --> 01:57:34.574
Sukie Baxter: time?

01:57:35.094 --> 01:57:35.804
Absolutely.

01:57:38.884 --> 01:57:40.324
Rupert Isaacson: So that's a
bit of a cliffhanger, guys.

01:57:41.244 --> 01:57:44.754
But at least you know how to make
a YouTube video work and you know

01:57:44.754 --> 01:57:46.754
how to listen to your body a bit.

01:57:47.414 --> 01:57:48.284
But the listening goes deeper.

01:57:49.564 --> 01:57:50.814
And I want to explore this.

01:57:51.474 --> 01:57:56.414
So, with your permission, Suki,
I think we'll make a date and

01:57:57.114 --> 01:57:58.564
go for a round two of this.

01:57:59.514 --> 01:58:00.994
So, yeah.

01:58:01.394 --> 01:58:01.984
I would love that.

01:58:02.334 --> 01:58:06.974
As, I presume a lot of people are driving
their cars as they're listening to this.

01:58:06.974 --> 01:58:10.604
If you've got, as you sign off,
and we also, I want people to

01:58:10.604 --> 01:58:11.474
know where they can find you.

01:58:11.474 --> 01:58:13.514
So I want you to give the
websites and all of that.

01:58:14.239 --> 01:58:18.519
Emails, everything they can do
as they sign off and they're

01:58:18.519 --> 01:58:19.719
driving their car right now.

01:58:21.149 --> 01:58:23.149
What would you like them to notice and how

01:58:24.719 --> 01:58:28.249
Sukie Baxter: your peripheral
vision that's something that

01:58:28.249 --> 01:58:30.839
you can actually notice while
you're driving is become aware.

01:58:31.049 --> 01:58:32.509
So you don't have to even move your eyes.

01:58:32.509 --> 01:58:36.119
You can keep them on the road just as
you are, which is the safest thing.

01:58:36.479 --> 01:58:39.829
But just as you are looking
forward to notice that you can see.

01:58:40.459 --> 01:58:44.429
In your peripheral vision, notice
the light at the sides of your eyes.

01:58:44.689 --> 01:58:47.519
Notice that you see movement
along the side of the road.

01:58:47.809 --> 01:58:49.279
So you're, you're still looking ahead.

01:58:49.279 --> 01:58:51.149
You're still keeping your
eyes on the road, but you're

01:58:51.149 --> 01:58:53.039
expanding that field of vision.

01:58:54.209 --> 01:58:57.349
And what that does is a couple of things.

01:58:57.549 --> 01:59:00.459
It helps your nervous system shift
into that parasympathetic state.

01:59:00.809 --> 01:59:02.779
But it also gives your
brain new context, right?

01:59:02.779 --> 01:59:05.899
Because if you're just
tunnel vision on one thing.

01:59:06.319 --> 01:59:09.989
Your brain's only taking in that very
narrow field of vision, so as soon as

01:59:09.989 --> 01:59:13.409
you begin to notice that you actually
see quite a lot more than maybe you're

01:59:13.429 --> 01:59:17.479
noticing that you're seeing, it's,
it's now sending more information to

01:59:17.479 --> 01:59:21.019
your brain about your environment,
now giving new context, now, now

01:59:21.019 --> 01:59:23.769
giving new cues to what's going on.

01:59:25.719 --> 01:59:26.019
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:59:28.014 --> 01:59:29.224
I'm going to be getting in my car soon.

01:59:29.224 --> 01:59:29.774
I'm going to do it.

01:59:29.894 --> 01:59:33.034
I was actually doing that sitting here
in the room as you were talking that,

01:59:33.044 --> 01:59:38.054
and I'm noticing the daybed that's here
in the office that's off to my right.

01:59:38.754 --> 01:59:41.174
I'm not looking at it, but I can
actually see the striped blanket

01:59:41.174 --> 01:59:46.344
on it now, my peripheral vision,
and I can see the window to my

01:59:46.344 --> 01:59:48.164
left out of my, and it's true.

01:59:48.194 --> 01:59:51.501
It, it feels oddly enough, a little bit

01:59:51.501 --> 01:59:52.754
Sukie Baxter: liberating to do that.

01:59:53.134 --> 01:59:55.954
It's more spacious, especially when
you've been staring at a screen.

01:59:56.024 --> 01:59:57.484
And this is such a great practice.

01:59:57.494 --> 01:59:59.944
So like when you go from
a screen to your car.

02:00:00.899 --> 02:00:04.059
You know, you can get out of this
tiny little, I have a laptop, so

02:00:04.059 --> 02:00:05.479
my screen is actually pretty small.

02:00:05.839 --> 02:00:10.279
This tiny little box that your eyes have
been focused on and actually remind your

02:00:10.279 --> 02:00:14.899
brain and your body that you have this
huge 360 degree environment around you.

02:00:16.969 --> 02:00:18.879
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,
it's a wonderful thing.

02:00:19.999 --> 02:00:20.429
All right.

02:00:20.429 --> 02:00:21.759
So how do people find you Suki?

02:00:22.889 --> 02:00:25.879
Sukie Baxter: Well, my
website is fullbodyrevolution.

02:00:26.259 --> 02:00:26.559
com.

02:00:27.429 --> 02:00:29.069
Rupert Isaacson: Whole Body Revolution.

02:00:29.549 --> 02:00:29.819
Yep.

02:00:30.069 --> 02:00:32.009
W, not just an H, presumably.

02:00:32.099 --> 02:00:33.789
Sukie Baxter: Yes, W, with a W.

02:00:34.129 --> 02:00:35.209
Yes, as in Whole Foods.

02:00:35.209 --> 02:00:36.699
Whole Foods, Whole Body Revolution.

02:00:37.689 --> 02:00:38.469
Exactly.

02:00:38.979 --> 02:00:39.109
Dot com.

02:00:39.109 --> 02:00:39.873
Dot

02:00:39.873 --> 02:00:40.637
Rupert Isaacson: com.

02:00:40.637 --> 02:00:41.401
WholeBodyRevolution.

02:00:41.401 --> 02:00:42.165
com.

02:00:42.165 --> 02:00:42.929
Okay.

02:00:43.929 --> 02:00:45.259
Sukie Baxter: And that's
my home on the web.

02:00:45.479 --> 02:00:48.679
And then I'm obviously on
YouTube and it's youtube.

02:00:48.719 --> 02:00:54.469
com forward slash Suki Baxter
spelled S U K I E B A X T E R.

02:00:54.559 --> 02:00:55.975
And I'm sure

02:00:55.975 --> 02:00:59.563
Rupert Isaacson: you'll
think of it again email,

02:00:59.563 --> 02:01:01.343
Sukie Baxter: Hello at
whole body revolution.

02:01:01.523 --> 02:01:01.783
com.

02:01:02.503 --> 02:01:03.323
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, I like that.

02:01:04.203 --> 02:01:09.903
I I'm so boring with my info and
my admin at you have hello at God.

02:01:09.983 --> 02:01:10.743
I'm not worthy.

02:01:10.763 --> 02:01:14.103
I

02:01:14.283 --> 02:01:14.583
Sukie Baxter: don't think

02:01:14.593 --> 02:01:15.003
Rupert Isaacson: that's true.

02:01:16.433 --> 02:01:18.873
So hello at wholebodyrevolution.

02:01:18.903 --> 02:01:19.153
com.

02:01:19.913 --> 02:01:20.163
Yes.

02:01:20.713 --> 02:01:20.953
Cool.

02:01:21.063 --> 02:01:23.073
Hello at wholebodyrevolution.

02:01:23.103 --> 02:01:27.893
com to email Suki and wholebodyrevolution.

02:01:27.923 --> 02:01:32.833
com to check out the website
and the online courses.

02:01:33.548 --> 02:01:33.838
Yes.

02:01:34.448 --> 02:01:34.988
Okay.

02:01:35.288 --> 02:01:39.878
To tap into the nature of
desire, how can one resist and

02:01:39.878 --> 02:01:41.008
nurture that nervous system?

02:01:41.458 --> 02:01:41.928
All right.

02:01:41.938 --> 02:01:44.098
So Suki, thank you so much.

02:01:45.298 --> 02:01:46.048
Thank you so much for

02:01:46.048 --> 02:01:46.548
Sukie Baxter: having me.

02:01:47.168 --> 02:01:50.188
Rupert Isaacson: You've
given us a ton here.

02:01:51.508 --> 02:01:54.158
Everything from, it's, it's what
I love is it's also practical.

02:01:54.258 --> 02:01:56.978
This is what you can do for your body.

02:01:56.978 --> 02:02:00.708
This is what you can do to
optimize your YouTube video.

02:02:00.708 --> 02:02:03.538
This is what you can do
to nurture yourself more.

02:02:03.538 --> 02:02:07.108
This is what you can do to free yourself
from certain types of past trauma.

02:02:07.408 --> 02:02:10.488
You've been so informative and
so generous with your knowledge.

02:02:10.488 --> 02:02:11.898
I'm, I'm, I'm grateful.

02:02:11.928 --> 02:02:14.018
I'm, I'm walking away
with tools for myself.

02:02:14.268 --> 02:02:15.788
telomere is.

02:02:16.128 --> 02:02:17.988
T E L O M E R E.

02:02:18.068 --> 02:02:18.678
Wonderful.

02:02:19.178 --> 02:02:20.038
Which is clearly.

02:02:20.503 --> 02:02:21.483
Taken up with genetics.

02:02:21.493 --> 02:02:25.963
So I want to look at the these
effects of stress on genetics Which

02:02:25.973 --> 02:02:29.113
it must be the aging thing, but I
wasn't aware of those until today.

02:02:29.133 --> 02:02:35.323
Thank you whole body revolution Okay,
everybody, you know where to go.

02:02:36.523 --> 02:02:42.218
So I'm gonna press that dreaded red
button Suki, thank you Thank you again.

02:02:43.508 --> 02:02:44.148
See you next time.

02:02:44.776 --> 02:02:45.886
Thank you for joining us.

02:02:45.916 --> 02:02:47.746
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.

02:02:47.985 --> 02:02:53.025
Join our website, new trails
learning.com, to  check out our online

02:02:53.025 --> 02:02:58.215
courses and live workshops in Horse Boy
Method, movement Method, and Athena.

02:02:58.922 --> 02:03:03.571
These evidence-based programs have
helped children, veterans, and people

02:03:03.571 --> 02:03:05.581
dealing with trauma around the world.

02:03:05.908 --> 02:03:09.658
We also offer a horse training
program and self-care program

02:03:09.658 --> 02:03:12.898
for riders on long ride home.com.

02:03:13.196 --> 02:03:17.246
These include easy to do online
courses and tutorials that

02:03:17.246 --> 02:03:19.166
bring you and your horse joy.

02:03:19.703 --> 02:03:24.263
For an overview of all shows and
programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.

02:03:24.593 --> 02:03:25.523
See you on the next show.

02:03:25.936 --> 02:03:28.626
And please remember to
press, subscribe and share.