WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:31.378 --> 00:00:34.168 Bryant Gillespie: Guys, welcome to the fourth edition of the 00:00:34.168 --> 00:00:35.638 better sign shop podcast. 00:00:36.118 --> 00:00:40.888 I've got my friends, Mike Riley and Peter Cark with me. 00:00:41.668 --> 00:00:45.598 I don't, we still haven't settled on a nickname for you yet. 00:00:45.598 --> 00:00:49.798 Mike, are we gonna settle the debate this time around or no? 00:00:50.878 --> 00:00:51.598 Michael Riley: What are you thinking? 00:00:51.607 --> 00:00:53.599 I can't live with sign money, Mike. 00:00:53.779 --> 00:00:54.559 That's terrible. 00:00:55.081 --> 00:00:55.681 maybe we could get 00:00:55.681 --> 00:00:57.601 Bryant Gillespie: you like a gold chain for the next one 00:00:58.831 --> 00:00:59.911 Michael Riley: with a big clock on it. 00:01:00.211 --> 00:01:00.811 Yeah, dude, 00:01:01.081 --> 00:01:01.561 Bryant Gillespie: that would work. 00:01:01.801 --> 00:01:02.491 Michael Riley: That'd be nice. 00:01:03.631 --> 00:01:05.281 Our big Jim and I letter on it, maybe. 00:01:05.371 --> 00:01:07.891 Peter Kourounis: What do you think about letting our audience vote for a name? 00:01:07.891 --> 00:01:11.071 If we put out a poll on our Facebook channel, or do you think 00:01:11.071 --> 00:01:12.941 about letting them just decide? 00:01:12.941 --> 00:01:14.504 Michael Riley: I have very mixed emotions about that. 00:01:14.509 --> 00:01:17.720 I feel like it would be great for, engaging with our audience, but 00:01:17.725 --> 00:01:21.530 at the same time, I really don't know if I, how I feel about that. 00:01:22.985 --> 00:01:25.115 Peter Kourounis: Lila gave me the sign, shop, Yoda name. 00:01:25.115 --> 00:01:26.075 I didn't come up with that. 00:01:26.885 --> 00:01:27.875 And I just accepted it. 00:01:27.875 --> 00:01:28.325 I said, sure. 00:01:28.325 --> 00:01:29.015 That sounds great. 00:01:29.375 --> 00:01:29.825 Let's do it. 00:01:30.965 --> 00:01:31.175 Michael Riley: All right. 00:01:31.175 --> 00:01:31.385 Yeah. 00:01:31.445 --> 00:01:32.195 Let's throw a pull up. 00:01:32.318 --> 00:01:33.698 let's let him drag me through the mud. 00:01:33.698 --> 00:01:34.328 I, 00:01:34.328 --> 00:01:37.478 Bryant Gillespie: I, I think it's gonna end up being signed money or signed bunny, 00:01:38.498 --> 00:01:39.491 Michael Riley: like I'm down with sign bunny. 00:01:39.494 --> 00:01:42.022 that's been like my personal brand for 15 years as the weird 00:01:42.022 --> 00:01:43.102 dude in the pink bunny suit. 00:01:43.642 --> 00:01:45.433 So I just lean into it. 00:01:45.436 --> 00:01:49.469 but if the audience has a better suggestion, I will, well, we'll leave 00:01:49.474 --> 00:01:51.098 Peter Kourounis: it up to the audience then that's what we'll do. 00:01:51.098 --> 00:01:51.998 We'll put out a poll. 00:01:52.568 --> 00:01:57.511 Hopefully when we record the next episode number five, you'll have a new name. 00:01:57.516 --> 00:01:58.881 Michael Riley: can't wait, well, make can't wait. 00:01:58.886 --> 00:01:59.781 Peter Kourounis: We'll make that announce. 00:01:59.781 --> 00:02:00.921 We'll make that announcement. 00:02:00.966 --> 00:02:01.206 this'll 00:02:01.206 --> 00:02:01.626 Michael Riley: be fun. 00:02:02.126 --> 00:02:02.416 Yeah. 00:02:02.496 --> 00:02:03.186 Yeah, it will. 00:02:04.416 --> 00:02:06.021 Bryant Gillespie: Okay, so what's what's the new with you guys? 00:02:08.601 --> 00:02:10.431 Peter Kourounis: Well, I just got back from sunny, Florida. 00:02:10.461 --> 00:02:11.751 Nice little convention. 00:02:11.751 --> 00:02:13.011 Happy to be back where. 00:02:13.431 --> 00:02:18.241 The weather is approximately in the nineties and not upper one hundreds. 00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:19.260 so it's nice to be back. 00:02:19.410 --> 00:02:21.060 Bryant Gillespie: Don't walk outside and start sweating. 00:02:22.620 --> 00:02:22.920 Mike 00:02:22.925 --> 00:02:24.270 Michael Riley: doesn't like Florida at all. 00:02:24.810 --> 00:02:27.750 I'm not a Florida fan, no offense to our Florida listeners, but 00:02:27.831 --> 00:02:30.501 well stick with my Oregon weather. 00:02:30.506 --> 00:02:32.961 Peter Kourounis: I can easily see why you don't like Florida. 00:02:33.171 --> 00:02:35.009 I mean, it was, I went to Disney. 00:02:35.429 --> 00:02:36.299 I went to Disney. 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.299 There's tons of kids running around, but I have absolutely. 00:02:39.359 --> 00:02:40.679 I was thinking about this the other day. 00:02:41.549 --> 00:02:49.109 What is Disney's monthly electric bill like, like that is, they think you got AC 00:02:49.109 --> 00:02:53.789 in every room, all these like fireworks and pyro techniques and lighting. 00:02:54.149 --> 00:02:59.309 I'm thinking to myself, do they spend, is it like 50 million a month in electric? 00:02:59.309 --> 00:03:00.479 Like I have no idea. 00:03:00.809 --> 00:03:02.189 Do they generate their own electric? 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:06.731 It caused it stem like a huge conversation between me and my counterparts, but. 00:03:07.721 --> 00:03:09.821 Because of all how hot it was. 00:03:09.941 --> 00:03:14.621 It was so hot that if this was like it, their ACS pumping out 00:03:14.621 --> 00:03:19.151 64 degrees everywhere you go in lobbies and restaurants, I'm like, 00:03:19.451 --> 00:03:20.681 and it's all owned by Disney. 00:03:20.681 --> 00:03:23.921 So I'm wondering myself, what does that look like? 00:03:24.401 --> 00:03:26.051 Michael Riley: Peter's having an existential breakdown 00:03:26.056 --> 00:03:27.251 over to Disney's power bill. 00:03:27.281 --> 00:03:28.001 Yeah, man. 00:03:28.271 --> 00:03:31.041 No, you know what I mean, think about it's really super hot there. 00:03:31.041 --> 00:03:33.861 So you want to go inside one of the buildings and cool off. 00:03:33.861 --> 00:03:34.161 Right? 00:03:34.221 --> 00:03:36.021 Well, all those buildings are trying to sell you shit. 00:03:36.021 --> 00:03:38.721 So for them, it's probably just a loss leader to get people, 00:03:38.726 --> 00:03:40.041 to buy more stuff inside. 00:03:41.121 --> 00:03:44.080 Unless they point they make a billion dollars a minute too. 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.580 So it's dropping the bucket. 00:03:45.930 --> 00:03:46.330 Peter Kourounis: Unbelievable. 00:03:47.830 --> 00:03:49.120 Anyway, I'll go back. 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:50.020 I like Disney. 00:03:50.770 --> 00:03:55.550 I like Epcot drinking in, in, in Germany was like my favorite part of the trip. 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:57.920 Gotta love those grapefruit beers. 00:03:57.972 --> 00:03:59.148 I had a couple of them. 00:03:59.148 --> 00:03:59.898 They were really 00:04:00.978 --> 00:04:01.368 Michael Riley: amazing. 00:04:02.733 --> 00:04:03.033 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 00:04:03.243 --> 00:04:04.533 When it's 90 degrees outside. 00:04:04.533 --> 00:04:05.403 Yeah, nothing better. 00:04:05.553 --> 00:04:05.703 Yeah. 00:04:05.703 --> 00:04:08.583 A hundred hundred, hundred degrees. 00:04:09.823 --> 00:04:11.997 Peter Kourounis: well, anyway, happy to be back I'm I'm in the, I'm 00:04:11.997 --> 00:04:16.296 in the trenches now with my staff and my partner at my sign shop. 00:04:16.296 --> 00:04:20.206 There's a lot to catch up on, but definitely, definitely happy to be 00:04:20.206 --> 00:04:21.616 recording our next episode here. 00:04:23.536 --> 00:04:23.866 Bryant Gillespie: Excellent. 00:04:24.136 --> 00:04:26.756 Well, Mike, you got an update or no? 00:04:26.756 --> 00:04:28.046 Michael Riley: outside of designing signs. 00:04:28.046 --> 00:04:31.916 My life pretty much revolves around this house renovation 00:04:31.916 --> 00:04:32.966 that I'm in the middle of. 00:04:33.016 --> 00:04:36.006 my, my future wife and I bought a house. 00:04:36.156 --> 00:04:37.402 We were bored during COVID. 00:04:37.402 --> 00:04:39.035 we just didn't have anything to do cause everything was closed. 00:04:39.575 --> 00:04:42.095 So we're like let's buy a fixer upper and remodel it. 00:04:42.185 --> 00:04:46.475 So two years ago we bought a house that was definitely a fixer upper. 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.347 And we, got a $40,000 budget and three month timeline to get it 00:04:49.347 --> 00:04:50.667 remodeled and moved into we're. 00:04:51.327 --> 00:04:53.697 August 1st will be the second anniversary. 00:04:53.697 --> 00:04:56.662 And we just crossed the $200,000, marked on 00:04:57.867 --> 00:04:57.922 So 00:04:57.927 --> 00:05:00.498 Bryant Gillespie: you're way under budget then way under budget. 00:05:00.498 --> 00:05:00.858 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:05:00.858 --> 00:05:02.900 And we're, I mean, it's like half done. 00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:05.133 Like we can live in it, but the house is no joke. 00:05:05.133 --> 00:05:06.213 It's only like halfway there. 00:05:06.573 --> 00:05:07.413 We got a lot of work to go. 00:05:07.413 --> 00:05:09.837 So the last week I've been spending a lot of time in the yard. 00:05:09.837 --> 00:05:12.897 We've completely demoed our yard and I've got some excavation 00:05:12.897 --> 00:05:14.277 equipment coming here tomorrow. 00:05:14.967 --> 00:05:19.933 So if I'm not designing signs, I'm just completely drenched and sweat outside. 00:05:19.933 --> 00:05:25.633 And 90 degree, Oregon weather digging holes in the yard and trying to revive it. 00:05:26.053 --> 00:05:27.936 So that's pretty much all I do my for time often. 00:05:28.516 --> 00:05:31.596 Bryant Gillespie: How often do friends and family give you like the money pit joke? 00:05:33.096 --> 00:05:37.138 Michael Riley: Almost daily, but I mean, like it's, I've 00:05:37.138 --> 00:05:38.338 leaned into it at this point. 00:05:38.338 --> 00:05:43.408 If anybody's ever seen that movie, that is the most accurate portrayal of. 00:05:44.173 --> 00:05:48.308 My life that you'll ever see it's well, I actually, I can't watch it. 00:05:48.338 --> 00:05:51.708 Money pit, old eighties movie with Tom Hanks and Shelly long, they buy 00:05:51.708 --> 00:05:55.368 a fixer upper and like everything that can go wrong will go wrong. 00:05:55.440 --> 00:05:58.270 and it's really, that's a funny check it up, but yeah, it's worth it. 00:05:58.275 --> 00:06:00.679 I can't bring myself to watch it cuz I'll just start crying the 00:06:00.679 --> 00:06:02.809 second it comes on, but yeah. 00:06:02.969 --> 00:06:06.689 I, and I was laying in bed the other day thinking okay, we paid, we spent 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:08.009 half a million dollars on this house. 00:06:08.014 --> 00:06:08.939 Not including what we put into. 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:11.699 And then literally the only thing left on this house is the land that it sits 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:18.869 on and the roof and the framing, like everything else has been completely 00:06:18.869 --> 00:06:19.919 ripped out of it and replaced. 00:06:19.919 --> 00:06:23.099 So I spent a lot of money on a pile of two by fours essentially. 00:06:24.209 --> 00:06:26.339 And it's something I have to live with every day. 00:06:28.169 --> 00:06:28.669 Well, I wish I 00:06:28.919 --> 00:06:29.991 Peter Kourounis: brand, it looks 00:06:29.996 --> 00:06:30.621 Bryant Gillespie: nice, man. 00:06:30.621 --> 00:06:31.011 It looks 00:06:31.011 --> 00:06:31.401 Michael Riley: nice. 00:06:31.491 --> 00:06:31.791 It's good. 00:06:31.796 --> 00:06:32.181 Thank you. 00:06:32.511 --> 00:06:33.201 It's getting there. 00:06:34.431 --> 00:06:37.641 Peter Kourounis: I take it that you did not hire like a contractor. 00:06:38.811 --> 00:06:39.916 Michael Riley: No, I have done, he 00:06:39.916 --> 00:06:42.076 Bryant Gillespie: signed money, Mike dude, he could build his own house. 00:06:42.316 --> 00:06:42.676 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:06:42.676 --> 00:06:45.106 I have done 99% of the work on the house, myself. 00:06:45.111 --> 00:06:47.746 The only thing that I've hired out so far was a plumber to come in and 00:06:47.746 --> 00:06:52.846 set our bathtub and our one of the shower pans, because of everything 00:06:52.851 --> 00:06:56.176 that goes in the building, a house, most of it is a technical kind of 00:06:56.176 --> 00:06:57.796 skill that you can easily learn. 00:06:57.916 --> 00:07:03.554 Plumbing is a freaking art and there's witchcraft involved and it's not for me. 00:07:03.654 --> 00:07:06.880 So anything that involves like heavy plumbing, I've outsourced, I have re 00:07:06.880 --> 00:07:09.490 plumbed like half the house myself, but I just didn't wanna mess with that. 00:07:09.490 --> 00:07:10.690 But yeah, we've rewired the house. 00:07:11.290 --> 00:07:14.538 All new flooring, subfloor, drywall, insulation, like 00:07:14.538 --> 00:07:16.878 everything down to the stubs is new. 00:07:17.028 --> 00:07:18.338 And it's all been by. 00:07:18.358 --> 00:07:18.978 Did you sold your 00:07:18.983 --> 00:07:21.198 Peter Kourounis: pipes or did you crimp your fittings? 00:07:21.798 --> 00:07:25.218 I actually, I hear on, I hear that crimping is becoming more and 00:07:25.218 --> 00:07:27.630 more popular with piping a house. 00:07:27.900 --> 00:07:28.320 Yeah. 00:07:28.325 --> 00:07:28.560 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.570 So I, I did a little bit of both. 00:07:30.570 --> 00:07:33.270 I did some copper, which I'm not a huge fan of, but I did. 00:07:33.270 --> 00:07:37.059 And then most of it is actually re plumbed with, the pecks plastic piping. 00:07:38.069 --> 00:07:38.359 Yeah. 00:07:38.389 --> 00:07:38.679 Yeah. 00:07:38.799 --> 00:07:39.609 The press fit fittings. 00:07:39.670 --> 00:07:43.240 which hopefully, I don't know, like we only plan to stay in this, 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:45.340 like the, to add insult injury. 00:07:45.340 --> 00:07:48.158 Like we plan to live in this house for two or three more years in the room sell it. 00:07:48.608 --> 00:07:50.918 So I don't really care if the plumbing leaks, after we move out. 00:07:53.658 --> 00:07:55.448 Peter Kourounis: I feel bad for that home buyer. 00:07:55.988 --> 00:07:56.348 Yeah. 00:07:56.588 --> 00:07:56.764 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 00:07:56.832 --> 00:07:58.362 got the numbers, stumble, belong to this podcast. 00:07:58.362 --> 00:07:58.722 You're fucked. 00:07:59.312 --> 00:07:59.602 Peter Kourounis: Yeah. 00:08:00.012 --> 00:08:03.972 Whoever buys Mike's house do not listen to this episode. 00:08:04.092 --> 00:08:06.432 Bryant Gillespie: 5, 5, 5 main 00:08:06.432 --> 00:08:10.062 Peter Kourounis: street, full one, 800 plumber when you need it. 00:08:11.172 --> 00:08:14.989 Michael Riley: We're we're keeping a blog of our progress on the house actually. 00:08:14.989 --> 00:08:17.599 So, maybe in the show notes, we'll put a link to our blog up there. 00:08:17.599 --> 00:08:19.729 If anybody wants to like commiserate with me or just make 00:08:19.729 --> 00:08:20.999 fun of me and say, what's asking, 00:08:20.999 --> 00:08:21.199 Peter Kourounis: oh, that's nice. 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:22.039 So you are document. 00:08:22.039 --> 00:08:23.779 So you are documenting the process. 00:08:23.784 --> 00:08:23.899 Huh? 00:08:24.169 --> 00:08:24.769 That's cute. 00:08:24.774 --> 00:08:25.489 I like that. 00:08:25.999 --> 00:08:26.359 I like that. 00:08:26.359 --> 00:08:28.129 I would like to get that link, send it to me. 00:08:28.129 --> 00:08:30.469 I will look to, to see how you're 00:08:30.469 --> 00:08:30.829 Michael Riley: doing. 00:08:31.459 --> 00:08:31.729 Yeah. 00:08:31.729 --> 00:08:34.039 Feel free to make all the fun of me that you want. 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:34.759 Cuz I deserve 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:34.849 Bryant Gillespie: it. 00:08:35.059 --> 00:08:36.608 He owe you want for the fast 00:08:36.613 --> 00:08:36.938 Peter Kourounis: signs. 00:08:37.493 --> 00:08:38.378 yeah, you guys just. 00:08:39.218 --> 00:08:39.608 That's true. 00:08:39.608 --> 00:08:41.590 I do owe you want, but I'm not gonna make fun of anybody. 00:08:41.593 --> 00:08:45.073 I'm the one that gets made fun of, so it's been my life. 00:08:45.193 --> 00:08:45.673 It's been my life. 00:08:45.673 --> 00:08:49.016 So ask my buddy, Matt, my buddy, Matt we're damn near 40 years old. 00:08:49.016 --> 00:08:49.856 He still makes fun of me. 00:08:50.036 --> 00:08:50.636 Like we're 10. 00:08:51.296 --> 00:08:52.286 Bryant Gillespie: At least you're not getting made of 00:08:52.286 --> 00:08:53.508 fun of by your four year old. 00:08:53.508 --> 00:08:54.100 Michael Riley: not yet. 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:54.280 Could 00:08:54.783 --> 00:08:57.033 Peter Kourounis: we, not yet. 00:08:57.573 --> 00:08:59.895 Bryant Gillespie: I've started taking, Hey, our middle daughter 00:08:59.955 --> 00:09:03.425 fishing a lot more and actually just twice in the last week. 00:09:03.485 --> 00:09:09.226 And we went once or twice before she, nobody caught anything after 00:09:09.310 --> 00:09:11.050 two and a half hours in the hot sun. 00:09:11.055 --> 00:09:14.410 You just sitting there like she's, I'd look over she's kicking rocks. 00:09:14.447 --> 00:09:18.137 so finally this last time that we went out, she caught like 12 fish. 00:09:18.197 --> 00:09:22.693 I call it one, because I'd spent most of the time loading her, pull up with worms 00:09:22.693 --> 00:09:27.937 and untangling, whatever mess, but she had the, the audacity after we were done to 00:09:27.937 --> 00:09:29.827 tell me that I wasn't a good fisherman. 00:09:30.337 --> 00:09:32.649 And that she could help me, ah, learn how to catch fish. 00:09:34.299 --> 00:09:34.689 Nice. 00:09:35.259 --> 00:09:36.459 Peter Kourounis: That's get right on the chin. 00:09:37.689 --> 00:09:38.139 got to 00:09:38.499 --> 00:09:39.099 Bryant Gillespie: all the time. 00:09:40.419 --> 00:09:40.729 All right. 00:09:40.729 --> 00:09:42.374 so today's topic. 00:09:42.824 --> 00:09:43.754 This is a fun one. 00:09:43.795 --> 00:09:49.228 apparently Mike's future wife said he's not a football guy, so this will be fun. 00:09:49.558 --> 00:09:54.385 The topic today is stop fumbling, the handoff, like what does 00:09:54.390 --> 00:09:55.705 stop fumbling the handoff mean? 00:09:57.055 --> 00:09:59.785 Michael Riley: Well, apparently I'm not a football guy, so I can't define that one. 00:09:59.785 --> 00:10:01.925 You don't even know what a handoff is or a fumble. 00:10:01.970 --> 00:10:02.930 this is not true. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:03.650 Go bucks. 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:04.460 I love football. 00:10:04.481 --> 00:10:08.460 so a lot of the problems that we regularly encounter in a lot of shops, 00:10:08.460 --> 00:10:13.069 are communication breakdowns just from one department to the next and, how jobs 00:10:13.069 --> 00:10:14.809 can fall apart, fall through the cracks. 00:10:15.229 --> 00:10:19.609 When it changes hands from say, sales to design or design to production 00:10:19.609 --> 00:10:20.779 or production to installation. 00:10:20.788 --> 00:10:23.070 that where that handoff takes place. 00:10:23.141 --> 00:10:26.911 I would say 80 to 90% of the shops that, that I've worked with. 00:10:26.916 --> 00:10:28.646 And I think Brian, you and I have talked about this. 00:10:28.651 --> 00:10:29.786 This is probably true for you too. 00:10:30.266 --> 00:10:33.926 They all, in some ways shape or form mess up that, that handoff there between 00:10:33.926 --> 00:10:40.036 department and that a lot of times is not the only factor, but one of the biggest 00:10:40.036 --> 00:10:46.716 contributing factors to missed deadlines, margin drain, customer experience. 00:10:46.716 --> 00:10:47.046 Right? 00:10:47.046 --> 00:10:47.331 Yeah. 00:10:47.401 --> 00:10:51.345 pretty much any problem that a sign shop faces seems like can be 00:10:51.345 --> 00:10:55.545 tracked that back to that in some way, shape or form in most cases, 00:10:55.615 --> 00:10:57.235 Bryant Gillespie: you gotta say shape form or fashion 00:10:57.425 --> 00:10:58.614 Michael Riley: shape, form, or fashion. 00:10:58.954 --> 00:10:59.244 Yeah. 00:10:59.244 --> 00:10:59.484 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 00:10:59.489 --> 00:11:02.154 We've got, I mean, West Virginia, we've got a governor, his name's 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.104 big Jim and that is his tagline. 00:11:04.174 --> 00:11:06.904 he started doing the COVID briefings after he saw Andrew 00:11:06.904 --> 00:11:08.404 Cuomo on there and he was, he. 00:11:08.969 --> 00:11:10.759 He thought he was gonna score popularity points. 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:14.239 And there was one where he was like trying to put the mask on his face 00:11:14.239 --> 00:11:18.049 and it covered his eyes and they like everybody in the state started 00:11:18.054 --> 00:11:19.429 making memes about him and stuff. 00:11:19.429 --> 00:11:24.302 But, that's what he says, guys, we gotta get vaccinated in whatever 00:11:24.302 --> 00:11:26.102 shape, form, or fashion that you 00:11:31.292 --> 00:11:32.162 to derail you there. 00:11:32.462 --> 00:11:35.582 Oh, no, I we'll add some of the memes to the show notes as well. 00:11:36.632 --> 00:11:38.702 , Michael Riley: I'm fascinated by West Virginia politics. 00:11:38.702 --> 00:11:43.262 So that's where my mind is at now thinking about Joe mansion. 00:11:44.162 --> 00:11:44.732 Bryant Gillespie: Oh yeah. 00:11:45.032 --> 00:11:45.182 Yeah. 00:11:45.182 --> 00:11:46.292 He's another character as well. 00:11:46.292 --> 00:11:46.812 Michael Riley: He's a winner. 00:11:46.842 --> 00:11:49.365 yeah, so I think that's a really critical thing that, that every 00:11:49.365 --> 00:11:51.359 shop owner, really needs to look at. 00:11:51.359 --> 00:11:55.409 I mean, it, it falls in line with what we, especially Peter always 00:11:55.409 --> 00:11:56.943 preaching, systems and processes. 00:11:57.018 --> 00:11:58.098 you, I think that's. 00:11:59.148 --> 00:12:02.268 It's almost like such a big, all inclusive thing that is just so woven 00:12:02.268 --> 00:12:04.421 into a daily operation of your business. 00:12:04.421 --> 00:12:06.408 That, I think a lot of people almost miss it. 00:12:06.413 --> 00:12:08.991 It's kinda like a forest for the trees kind of thing, but it's definitely 00:12:09.141 --> 00:12:14.091 something that I think should be addressed in top of mind for every 00:12:14.571 --> 00:12:18.091 sign shop owner is something that you should always be trying to improve on as 00:12:18.911 --> 00:12:23.351 efficiently moving that job from person to person or department to department 00:12:23.351 --> 00:12:25.893 with minimal, friction in there with 00:12:25.893 --> 00:12:26.553 Bryant Gillespie: minimal loss. 00:12:26.553 --> 00:12:26.823 Yeah. 00:12:27.250 --> 00:12:31.398 and I think it, when you're small, it's a lot easier, because there's four 00:12:31.398 --> 00:12:35.118 or five people they're, everybody's wearing different hats, but the 00:12:35.118 --> 00:12:39.288 communication flows a lot easier at that point, because it's like, Hey, I 00:12:39.288 --> 00:12:43.998 could just reach out and yell at you, especially if you're in a small facility. 00:12:44.448 --> 00:12:44.718 Michael Riley: Right. 00:12:45.018 --> 00:12:46.188 Or it's just you all day. 00:12:46.518 --> 00:12:48.378 If you're just a one man shop, there's nobody to hand it off to. 00:12:48.378 --> 00:12:49.128 It's all in your head. 00:12:51.483 --> 00:12:54.311 Bryant Gillespie: But yeah, as soon as you start to grow, that handoff and 00:12:54.311 --> 00:12:58.690 you start formalizing the different roles and, and instead of one person 00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:01.820 having three different roles, that person just has one dedicated role. 00:13:01.820 --> 00:13:03.907 this problem compounds at that point. 00:13:03.907 --> 00:13:04.267 I think 00:13:04.312 --> 00:13:05.872 Peter Kourounis: yeah, there's a lot to be said about this. 00:13:05.872 --> 00:13:07.192 This is a very interesting topic. 00:13:07.192 --> 00:13:10.175 And Mike, I'm actually glad that you wanted to run with this here on our fourth 00:13:10.180 --> 00:13:16.347 episode, but you know, as you look through a small shop or a large shops systems, 00:13:16.347 --> 00:13:20.137 right, you have, let's just break it down pretty simply for our listeners. 00:13:20.137 --> 00:13:23.847 You'll have your sales department, you'll have your design department, 00:13:23.847 --> 00:13:27.627 your production and department, possibly even your installation department. 00:13:27.627 --> 00:13:30.537 So that might like you sent Brian, that might be two or three people. 00:13:31.227 --> 00:13:33.882 , but for the sake of this conversation, let's just assume that you have 00:13:33.882 --> 00:13:35.652 that broken down into departments. 00:13:35.772 --> 00:13:39.342 Now one person handles two or three of those roles then so be it. 00:13:39.372 --> 00:13:44.212 But for the sake of this conversation, let's break it down to sales production, 00:13:44.231 --> 00:13:48.461 sorry, sales, design, production, and installation in that flow. 00:13:48.466 --> 00:13:52.781 So where does that break down? 00:13:52.841 --> 00:13:55.931 It breaks down in the cracks of each department, right? 00:13:55.931 --> 00:14:00.071 So in between sales and design, that's where it breaks down in 00:14:00.076 --> 00:14:01.441 between design and production. 00:14:01.441 --> 00:14:02.371 That's where it breaks down. 00:14:02.371 --> 00:14:05.131 So what is the key differentiator there? 00:14:05.136 --> 00:14:08.011 What's the common denominator of that problem? 00:14:08.101 --> 00:14:11.581 It seems to me like it would be communication. 00:14:11.911 --> 00:14:12.211 Right. 00:14:12.301 --> 00:14:13.321 Would you agree with that? 00:14:13.801 --> 00:14:17.990 That the common denominator of where we can fumble the 00:14:17.990 --> 00:14:19.610 handoff is in communication? 00:14:19.955 --> 00:14:20.270 right. 00:14:20.295 --> 00:14:21.148 would you agree? 00:14:22.288 --> 00:14:22.648 Michael Riley: I agree. 00:14:22.648 --> 00:14:22.918 Yeah. 00:14:22.918 --> 00:14:25.138 It's definitely a fundamentally a communication problem. 00:14:26.458 --> 00:14:30.358 Peter Kourounis: So at the surface, if you're having a communication 00:14:30.358 --> 00:14:35.188 problem, that's where the plug in the system needs to be generated. 00:14:35.368 --> 00:14:38.248 If you need to fill those cracks, it's inside the communication. 00:14:38.488 --> 00:14:44.668 So what can you do as the owner of your company to fill those cracks? 00:14:45.148 --> 00:14:51.955 Now I have some ideas, in my shop for many years, almost since the day I started 00:14:51.985 --> 00:14:57.715 not quite since the day I started, but almost morning meetings, morning rally 00:14:57.715 --> 00:14:59.665 meetings, every morning, apple does it. 00:14:59.995 --> 00:15:01.195 Every apple store does it. 00:15:01.195 --> 00:15:04.495 That's where I got the idea from morning rally meetings. 00:15:04.495 --> 00:15:05.995 Let's go over some talking points. 00:15:06.235 --> 00:15:11.305 Let's go over some points, any it's 15 minute meeting between 8, 8, 15 00:15:11.305 --> 00:15:15.175 in the morning, or depending on what time of the day you guys get started. 00:15:15.175 --> 00:15:17.935 But if you could dedicate a portion of your day to arriving 00:15:17.935 --> 00:15:20.005 on that time before you put. 00:15:20.425 --> 00:15:23.005 You're bag down or you turn on your computer. 00:15:23.005 --> 00:15:26.965 You're just gonna participate in a rally meeting where okay. 00:15:27.325 --> 00:15:30.145 Go through the pipeline once more, anybody have any questions on what they 00:15:30.145 --> 00:15:31.745 think that they're supposed to be doing? 00:15:31.747 --> 00:15:34.207 Mike, you're gonna, don't forget about this. 00:15:34.212 --> 00:15:37.214 I may have forgot to tell you that yesterday, but don't forget about 00:15:37.219 --> 00:15:38.714 getting in touch with this guy today. 00:15:38.714 --> 00:15:42.974 I want an answer from that problem, or I want an answer from that customer today. 00:15:42.974 --> 00:15:48.134 So just those healthy daily reminders from in a team building 00:15:48.134 --> 00:15:49.964 exercise can really go a long way. 00:15:50.056 --> 00:15:52.666 Bryant Gillespie: do you guys have a fast signs, like song that you 00:15:52.671 --> 00:15:54.376 sing or like a chant or anything? 00:15:55.606 --> 00:15:55.936 Peter Kourounis: Yeah. 00:15:56.765 --> 00:15:57.598 Hey, Hey, 00:15:57.598 --> 00:15:58.618 Michael Riley: fast signs. 00:15:58.708 --> 00:15:59.610 Hey, Hey, fast 00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:00.060 Peter Kourounis: signs. 00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:02.174 Yeah, no, no, we don't. 00:16:02.174 --> 00:16:06.194 We don't do a seance or a song or a kumbaya or anything else that 00:16:06.194 --> 00:16:08.084 you Virginians want to call it? 00:16:08.364 --> 00:16:09.104 No mean I, 00:16:09.109 --> 00:16:11.714 Bryant Gillespie: I have got a couple cousins that used to work for Walmart 00:16:11.719 --> 00:16:15.816 back in the day when they used to do all that, like the rah rah stuff. 00:16:17.316 --> 00:16:20.585 Peter Kourounis: I mean, listen, if you're listen, there's a bunch of brands. 00:16:20.585 --> 00:16:25.295 One that comes to mind right now is called horsepower brands and they 00:16:25.295 --> 00:16:27.155 ha they're like amazing at that. 00:16:27.173 --> 00:16:32.425 You know, the whole clapping, applauding rooting for your colleague to succeed. 00:16:32.425 --> 00:16:35.425 If they succeed, we succeed like that culture. 00:16:35.965 --> 00:16:39.745 To me, one of the best types of cultures there are. 00:16:39.745 --> 00:16:43.585 So if you can infuse that type of RA rawness into your 00:16:43.585 --> 00:16:44.888 business, I'm in favor of it. 00:16:44.888 --> 00:16:50.520 Even if you have four people or 40 people, that to me is, it's 00:16:50.550 --> 00:16:52.290 exciting for your customer base. 00:16:52.890 --> 00:16:57.660 You wanna announce that do blogs on it, do video content on it. 00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:01.636 Because that to me is a big differentiator between what you're, what you could do 00:17:02.026 --> 00:17:03.976 and what your competition is not doing. 00:17:03.976 --> 00:17:08.176 So that's just another fact toy that I like to throw in here, but getting 00:17:08.206 --> 00:17:11.296 back to my point, Communication. 00:17:11.321 --> 00:17:16.301 those rally meetings tend to lead to other types of communication points, right? 00:17:16.901 --> 00:17:20.981 Maybe you want to have a once a week meeting for two hours with your staff, 00:17:21.341 --> 00:17:25.541 put it in the middle of the week on a Wednesday, so that you had the 00:17:25.541 --> 00:17:28.121 beginning of the week to talk about and what you're doing the rest of the 00:17:28.121 --> 00:17:33.111 week to talk about, that's a really great glue point sticky point so that 00:17:33.111 --> 00:17:37.791 you can mend these cracks that you have in your system in communication. 00:17:38.241 --> 00:17:39.561 I'm not saying that there's any 00:17:40.281 --> 00:17:41.421 Bryant Gillespie: the concept of a team meeting. 00:17:41.451 --> 00:17:41.991 Oh, go ahead. 00:17:42.231 --> 00:17:42.561 Sorry. 00:17:43.305 --> 00:17:43.965 I jumped right in. 00:17:44.025 --> 00:17:44.745 I thought you were done. 00:17:45.225 --> 00:17:45.585 Go ahead. 00:17:47.505 --> 00:17:48.105 I killed him. 00:17:51.045 --> 00:17:51.915 Michael Riley: He just crashed. 00:17:51.915 --> 00:17:53.188 He just like, he shut down. 00:17:54.388 --> 00:17:56.308 Peter Kourounis: Why do you interrupt me? 00:17:56.458 --> 00:17:56.698 Yeah. 00:17:56.703 --> 00:18:02.098 I, why, what is it about, what is, what was it about my last sentence 00:18:02.188 --> 00:18:03.388 that made you think I was done? 00:18:05.128 --> 00:18:05.488 I don't know. 00:18:06.568 --> 00:18:07.258 Okay. 00:18:07.348 --> 00:18:07.948 Bryant Gillespie: Don't do it. 00:18:07.953 --> 00:18:08.298 It's the internet. 00:18:08.358 --> 00:18:08.798 it's slow. 00:18:08.798 --> 00:18:09.278 It's slow. 00:18:10.058 --> 00:18:10.328 Peter Kourounis: Yeah. 00:18:10.328 --> 00:18:10.538 Yeah. 00:18:10.538 --> 00:18:12.958 Blame, blame your internet, the internet. 00:18:13.338 --> 00:18:13.878 Bryant Gillespie: You got it. 00:18:14.438 --> 00:18:15.128 Slow internet. 00:18:15.133 --> 00:18:15.848 I got it. 00:18:19.598 --> 00:18:20.528 Peter Kourounis: very good point. 00:18:20.528 --> 00:18:21.038 There it is. 00:18:21.038 --> 00:18:26.198 So you were saying you really like the idea of a weekly meeting. 00:18:26.258 --> 00:18:26.678 Go ahead. 00:18:26.858 --> 00:18:27.188 Bryant Gillespie: Going. 00:18:27.193 --> 00:18:27.348 I do. 00:18:27.458 --> 00:18:30.883 I do like the idea of a weekly meeting and I wish more shops 00:18:30.883 --> 00:18:32.023 would actually implement that. 00:18:32.433 --> 00:18:36.799 and number one is just, you gotta have that FaceTime between departments, because 00:18:36.829 --> 00:18:38.809 communication is all about relationships. 00:18:39.229 --> 00:18:43.009 And when you're a small shop, those relationships come pretty easy because 00:18:43.009 --> 00:18:44.989 you're working right alongside everybody. 00:18:44.989 --> 00:18:50.089 But if you've got a formal structure and you've got 10, 15, 20 employees, 00:18:50.749 --> 00:18:54.589 you've gotta have that FaceTime between departments, whether that's 00:18:54.589 --> 00:18:59.044 just department heads that are working together with each other, But you 00:18:59.049 --> 00:19:03.274 gotta have that time and space for them to come together and say, okay, Hey, 00:19:03.274 --> 00:19:05.264 here's the list of priorities this week? 00:19:05.294 --> 00:19:08.264 what are some of the challenges that, that you guys are having? 00:19:08.264 --> 00:19:10.094 What are some of the issues that have came up? 00:19:10.814 --> 00:19:13.724 How can we help if I'm sales out? 00:19:13.724 --> 00:19:14.924 How can I help design? 00:19:14.929 --> 00:19:17.504 Or if I'm design, how can I help you guys? 00:19:18.824 --> 00:19:19.274 I think those, 00:19:19.554 --> 00:19:22.605 Peter Kourounis: yeah, if you come, if you come into those meetings with 00:19:22.605 --> 00:19:26.093 the, as an owner, I'm speaking to my owners right now, not the employee side. 00:19:26.483 --> 00:19:29.543 If you're owner, if you're an owner and you're coming into those meetings and 00:19:29.543 --> 00:19:33.154 you have absolutely no idea what to talk about, I wanna tell you that's okay. 00:19:33.904 --> 00:19:36.244 I wanna tell you I've done that many times where I just wanted to like, 00:19:37.174 --> 00:19:38.704 take the temperature of my team. 00:19:39.064 --> 00:19:43.829 I wanted see what I could do to help, or if they were seeing something 00:19:43.829 --> 00:19:46.409 that they didn't like, I wanted to hear about, it was an open forum. 00:19:46.409 --> 00:19:50.609 So if you don't have an agenda to these meetings, here's a little tip. 00:19:51.614 --> 00:19:54.764 If you put your meeting in the week of, in the middle of the week, on a 00:19:54.764 --> 00:19:57.344 Wednesday, if you're open Monday to Friday and you put it on a week on a 00:19:57.344 --> 00:20:02.834 Wednesday, talk about what happened to the past two days and talk about what 00:20:02.834 --> 00:20:04.364 you're gonna do the next two days. 00:20:04.364 --> 00:20:05.834 It's a very simple conversation. 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:06.734 Make it an hour. 00:20:06.944 --> 00:20:09.884 If you wanna have it for two hours, I recommend you could do that too. 00:20:10.514 --> 00:20:12.824 But this is a way it's a culture building time. 00:20:12.824 --> 00:20:18.014 It's a way to glue your cracks in your system, but when you infuse 00:20:18.014 --> 00:20:20.924 technology into it, which is my next point, I want to bring in. 00:20:21.074 --> 00:20:22.604 So don't interrupt me again. 00:20:22.604 --> 00:20:29.586 Bryant, when you bring in the technology piece, how are you able to really 00:20:29.586 --> 00:20:31.176 supercharge your communication? 00:20:31.176 --> 00:20:31.506 Right? 00:20:32.256 --> 00:20:36.115 So just like in our, just like in our, better sign shop 00:20:36.115 --> 00:20:39.565 community group on Facebook, like everybody communicates there. 00:20:39.925 --> 00:20:45.775 If you can create a forum for which employees can communicate 00:20:45.775 --> 00:20:46.857 with owners in and out of the. 00:20:48.252 --> 00:20:48.642 Right. 00:20:49.422 --> 00:20:52.632 Managers are in and outta the office, salesmen are in and outta the office, 00:20:52.752 --> 00:20:54.312 installers are in and out of the shop. 00:20:55.182 --> 00:21:00.731 So if you could create like a group chat, a slack channel, a wor a Facebook 00:21:00.731 --> 00:21:04.751 workplace community group for your business, depending on your size, this 00:21:04.751 --> 00:21:10.180 is a really great opportunity to just put in a great place, different channels. 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:14.850 if you have ideas, create a allowing your staff to have a voice with 00:21:14.850 --> 00:21:16.835 technologies, a really great tip. 00:21:16.835 --> 00:21:22.516 Number two, if you will, for what I think is a great way of com padding 00:21:22.516 --> 00:21:26.266 your communication, improving upon your communication with your team, and also 00:21:26.746 --> 00:21:30.076 subsequently building up your culture. 00:21:33.616 --> 00:21:35.566 Would anybody like to comment on that? 00:21:40.636 --> 00:21:42.408 Michael Riley: Yeah, I, I, a hundred percent agree with 00:21:42.408 --> 00:21:43.548 what Peter just said there. 00:21:43.548 --> 00:21:48.330 I think removing friction from the communication process is critical. 00:21:48.330 --> 00:21:51.963 And with technology now, you mentioned slack, I think slack is great, cuz you 00:21:51.963 --> 00:21:56.235 can, message anybody at any time and get a response right back on a job without 00:21:56.235 --> 00:21:58.395 having anything fall through the cracks. 00:21:58.395 --> 00:22:00.442 And you can even automate, Brian and speak to this, but you can 00:22:00.442 --> 00:22:04.867 obviously, automate some things to automatically send messages in slack. 00:22:04.872 --> 00:22:08.779 If a job reaches a certain milestone in your system or whatever. 00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:11.502 So slack is definitely a, a really powerful tool. 00:22:12.492 --> 00:22:14.138 To help eliminate some of that friction in the 00:22:14.138 --> 00:22:14.738 Peter Kourounis: conversation process. 00:22:14.798 --> 00:22:15.038 All right. 00:22:15.038 --> 00:22:19.268 So for our, for, so for our listeners out there, Mike, let, I'm gonna put Brian on 00:22:19.268 --> 00:22:25.178 the spot here for our listeners out there that for our listeners out there that are 00:22:25.448 --> 00:22:27.848 don't use slack, don't know what slack is. 00:22:27.853 --> 00:22:30.338 We use slack here at the better sign shop community. 00:22:30.338 --> 00:22:33.791 We use slack to communicate with one on our, I don't even have Mike's cell 00:22:33.791 --> 00:22:38.351 phone number, but I do communicate with Mike every day through slack. 00:22:38.951 --> 00:22:41.861 So Bryant, here's an interesting question for our listeners. 00:22:42.041 --> 00:22:42.641 Give them a tip. 00:22:43.061 --> 00:22:48.251 What type of automations can they do within the slack environment 00:22:48.911 --> 00:22:53.921 that can help improve poor communication within the team? 00:22:56.111 --> 00:22:58.431 Bryant Gillespie: Poor communication within the team with slack? 00:22:58.438 --> 00:22:58.678 yeah. 00:22:58.678 --> 00:23:03.388 So with slack, one of the nice things and it basically slack is 00:23:03.388 --> 00:23:04.818 nothing more than like a team. 00:23:06.173 --> 00:23:10.273 A work oriented group chat, basically you set up different channels. 00:23:10.543 --> 00:23:12.133 I can message someone directly. 00:23:12.244 --> 00:23:16.564 the nice thing about slack is all these integrations that it has, like 00:23:16.564 --> 00:23:18.694 these apps that are built into it. 00:23:18.702 --> 00:23:22.182 or you could use something like SAP here or some of these other, no 00:23:22.212 --> 00:23:28.662 cold, no code tools to actually pipe information from the different apps. 00:23:28.692 --> 00:23:34.106 So, let's say if something happens inside the design department, maybe 00:23:34.111 --> 00:23:40.166 you're using Trello or some other system to do your design management. 00:23:40.646 --> 00:23:44.096 If somebody adds a comment to a card inside Trello, you could 00:23:44.096 --> 00:23:46.196 potentially post that in slack. 00:23:46.277 --> 00:23:49.859 and slack kind of becomes the hub for team communication. 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.525 so there's a lot of little things like that. 00:23:51.525 --> 00:23:55.545 It's really hard to spout something off the cuff without 00:23:55.545 --> 00:23:56.965 knowing the specific use case. 00:23:56.991 --> 00:24:00.321 what kind of tools people are using, but it is really nice that 00:24:00.326 --> 00:24:03.021 you can put information right. 00:24:03.021 --> 00:24:05.421 Where you are likely to see it most. 00:24:07.821 --> 00:24:07.911 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:24:07.911 --> 00:24:11.301 One I like you mentioned there, it would be like you said, Trello. 00:24:11.511 --> 00:24:14.524 So if you have, different columns that are Trello board for, each department, 00:24:14.524 --> 00:24:17.704 you've got a column for design and one for prepress and one for printing, and 00:24:17.704 --> 00:24:22.564 then one for whatever you can, when that card is drugged from saving the 00:24:22.564 --> 00:24:27.124 prepress column to the print column or whatever, you can set up an automation 00:24:27.124 --> 00:24:30.812 that, sends a slack message to your printer operator that says, Hey, 00:24:30.812 --> 00:24:32.072 this job has been released to you. 00:24:32.072 --> 00:24:32.582 Basically. 00:24:32.582 --> 00:24:35.754 They just get a, you can use it almost just as a notification system, as much as 00:24:35.754 --> 00:24:39.229 a, two-way communication tool, that will ping them on their phone or whatever. 00:24:39.229 --> 00:24:41.849 Assuming they've got the slack app on their phone, it just keeps everybody 00:24:42.209 --> 00:24:43.589 on the same page and moving forward. 00:24:43.739 --> 00:24:46.327 And that's, I think that's a really, something like that's a really great one, 00:24:46.327 --> 00:24:48.037 whether using Trello or air table or. 00:24:48.577 --> 00:24:51.187 Whatever tool you're using, you can usually set up some sort of 00:24:51.187 --> 00:24:52.537 a similar integration like that. 00:24:52.537 --> 00:24:53.707 When a job changes status. 00:24:56.557 --> 00:24:58.717 Peter Kourounis: One of the things that I use in my shop, 00:24:59.167 --> 00:25:00.727 I, we use slack in our shop. 00:25:00.732 --> 00:25:06.487 So when our POS system, when a customer makes a payment, 00:25:06.667 --> 00:25:08.197 it'll notify the sales staff. 00:25:08.287 --> 00:25:12.528 When, you could do that in an email, but if you have multiple members of 00:25:12.528 --> 00:25:15.858 your staff, if the owner wants to know, if the salesperson wants to 00:25:15.858 --> 00:25:20.080 know, if the CSR wants to know, you can centralize those communications to 00:25:20.085 --> 00:25:21.619 know oh, we got received the payment. 00:25:21.736 --> 00:25:24.637 now what has to happen in our next step of our process? 00:25:24.637 --> 00:25:30.252 Or if a design was approved, it'll not only will it alert the designer, but the 00:25:30.252 --> 00:25:34.075 alert will come into a design channel. 00:25:34.495 --> 00:25:38.275 And all the members, including the owner, maybe the project manager, maybe 00:25:38.275 --> 00:25:40.075 that designer will all be notified. 00:25:40.075 --> 00:25:44.725 So a little bit of a way to bring in more communication, because we all have emails, 00:25:44.725 --> 00:25:46.705 but we don't read each other's emails. 00:25:47.005 --> 00:25:51.475 In other words, I have my email, Brian has his, so if he gets an alert, 00:25:51.595 --> 00:25:53.095 only Brian will be able to know. 00:25:53.095 --> 00:25:57.265 So if you bring that alert into a public space where everybody can be notified 00:25:57.265 --> 00:26:01.448 of what's going on, that's not even an automation, that's just simply changing 00:26:01.448 --> 00:26:06.860 the email address in your POS to notify when this alert happens, set it up to this 00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:11.513 slack channel address instead so that, everybody can see it in a public form. 00:26:11.513 --> 00:26:12.683 So that's another way. 00:26:12.683 --> 00:26:16.043 And just another tip of how slack is a really great tool. 00:26:16.043 --> 00:26:20.061 I think I did a video on slack of many months ago on my 00:26:20.061 --> 00:26:21.441 former YouTube channel here. 00:26:21.441 --> 00:26:23.781 And I believe Slack's a really great tool. 00:26:24.186 --> 00:26:28.499 To help, not only create that game plan, but also enforce the game plan. 00:26:28.499 --> 00:26:34.987 If you're gonna emphasize communication, as your primary bottleneck in 00:26:34.987 --> 00:26:37.267 your cracks in your system. 00:26:37.267 --> 00:26:40.987 Well then firming up that communication with technology is a 00:26:40.992 --> 00:26:42.716 really great opportunity to do that. 00:26:43.196 --> 00:26:47.272 And, you can monitor everybody's engagement, you can see, who's 00:26:47.272 --> 00:26:48.652 actually paying attention. 00:26:48.652 --> 00:26:49.972 Who's not paying attention. 00:26:49.972 --> 00:26:53.602 So it's a really great from a manager and owner's perspective, really great 00:26:53.602 --> 00:26:54.945 tool to help, communicate better. 00:26:54.945 --> 00:26:55.005 Yeah. 00:26:55.035 --> 00:26:56.604 But again, solve that problem. 00:26:57.324 --> 00:26:57.624 I'm gonna, 00:26:57.684 --> 00:26:59.151 Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna throw one more out. 00:26:59.151 --> 00:27:00.966 there's an app that I've been using. 00:27:00.966 --> 00:27:02.466 I've put a couple clients onto this. 00:27:02.886 --> 00:27:04.656 It's called missive is the name of it. 00:27:04.686 --> 00:27:10.160 M I S S I V E if you're looking for it, it's missive app.com. 00:27:10.730 --> 00:27:14.480 It is actually a team inbox. 00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:22.524 So instead of everybody having their own like separate inbox, all your emails would 00:27:22.524 --> 00:27:28.734 come into one single source of truth, one inbox that everybody shares, and then 00:27:28.734 --> 00:27:31.564 they can collaborate inside that inbox. 00:27:31.569 --> 00:27:34.867 and one of the things that I really like about it, it, it functions like a regular 00:27:34.867 --> 00:27:36.907 email client, like an outlook or Gmail. 00:27:37.507 --> 00:27:43.387 But the difference is if I, if you're on my team inside submissive, I can 00:27:43.387 --> 00:27:48.157 mention your name and we can have our own conversation inside an email thread. 00:27:48.577 --> 00:27:52.477 So if I need to get your input before I have to send out an email 00:27:52.477 --> 00:27:55.861 to a client, maybe about a quote or, know, maybe Hey, what are, 00:27:55.861 --> 00:27:57.361 what were the design specs on this? 00:27:57.361 --> 00:27:57.751 Again? 00:27:58.231 --> 00:27:59.341 I can mention it right. 00:27:59.341 --> 00:28:04.351 In context of that email, you could see the email chain reply right 00:28:04.356 --> 00:28:08.581 back to me, or even help me write the draft email to the client. 00:28:09.591 --> 00:28:09.811 Wow. 00:28:09.831 --> 00:28:13.321 So you kind of short circuit that like taking it from 00:28:13.321 --> 00:28:14.851 email and posting it in slack? 00:28:14.932 --> 00:28:15.082 Peter Kourounis: yeah. 00:28:15.082 --> 00:28:16.372 That's there really is like an app. 00:28:16.432 --> 00:28:18.502 There really is an app for everything isn't there. 00:28:19.222 --> 00:28:19.492 Yeah. 00:28:19.882 --> 00:28:20.122 There is. 00:28:20.122 --> 00:28:21.292 I mean, that sounds so cool. 00:28:21.292 --> 00:28:24.252 I didn't even know about that, but, yeah, that sounds great too. 00:28:24.402 --> 00:28:28.302 And that might be a little easier for some of our non technologically 00:28:28.302 --> 00:28:29.982 savvy listeners out there. 00:28:30.612 --> 00:28:30.852 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 00:28:30.923 --> 00:28:35.148 it does take a while to get used to, and like I've one of the clients has even been 00:28:35.148 --> 00:28:38.658 able to do SMS messages through there. 00:28:38.658 --> 00:28:43.068 So like they've got set up where somebody can text message the 00:28:43.068 --> 00:28:46.878 business and those text messages go right into the same inbox. 00:28:47.138 --> 00:28:47.488 Right. 00:28:47.493 --> 00:28:50.257 So they've got emails, texts right in the same place. 00:28:50.257 --> 00:28:52.339 Michael Riley: I wanna go back and hit on something else that Peter talked 00:28:52.339 --> 00:28:55.099 about there early on is, and that's just a team meeting in the morning. 00:28:55.099 --> 00:28:55.549 I think. 00:28:55.613 --> 00:29:00.906 I think that's something that a lot of people miss as well or overlook the 00:29:00.906 --> 00:29:04.296 importance of is just a face to face interface with everybody on your team. 00:29:04.342 --> 00:29:06.456 I see a lot of shops that don't do that. 00:29:06.906 --> 00:29:09.336 And I also, the flip side of that is I also see a lot of 00:29:09.336 --> 00:29:11.149 shops that take it too far. 00:29:11.659 --> 00:29:15.027 It, I think having a morning kickoff meeting with your team, is critical, 00:29:15.027 --> 00:29:18.027 but it doesn't have to me really more than five or 10 minutes, 00:29:18.088 --> 00:29:21.897 in most cases, just, quickly run through what's being done today. 00:29:22.497 --> 00:29:25.361 A and really the point of that meeting, shouldn't be telling 00:29:25.361 --> 00:29:26.771 people how to do their jobs, right? 00:29:26.771 --> 00:29:28.528 Like your staff knows how to do their job. 00:29:28.528 --> 00:29:30.778 There's your staff knows how to read your work orders and know 00:29:30.868 --> 00:29:33.148 knows how to go through your work and progress list and everything. 00:29:33.838 --> 00:29:36.178 If they don't, you have a bigger problem. 00:29:36.178 --> 00:29:37.918 And that meeting isn't the place to address that. 00:29:37.918 --> 00:29:38.158 Right. 00:29:38.608 --> 00:29:43.618 But it's a great opportunity for your staff to raise questions and 00:29:43.618 --> 00:29:49.498 concerns about active jobs that they otherwise may not have time to, or may 00:29:49.503 --> 00:29:52.658 not feel like they've got a platform to, part of effective communication 00:29:52.658 --> 00:29:58.214 in a sh in a shop is making sure you give everybody involved, a 00:29:58.234 --> 00:30:02.134 free, safe space to ask questions. 00:30:02.164 --> 00:30:05.364 Even if those are really dumb questions that, that, they feel like, or you 00:30:05.364 --> 00:30:06.804 may feel like shouldn't be asked. 00:30:08.209 --> 00:30:12.287 I, if they have the question, they need to be able to ask it and get a direct answer 00:30:12.377 --> 00:30:15.437 to it so they can go on with their day and without giving them that platform. 00:30:15.437 --> 00:30:17.536 And that space to do that job will go into production. 00:30:17.541 --> 00:30:20.176 And they're probably just gonna say, screw it, I'm gonna do it. 00:30:20.266 --> 00:30:23.275 However, I feel like I can do it without, any of that clarification. 00:30:23.275 --> 00:30:25.255 And that's a lot of times where mistakes happen. 00:30:25.255 --> 00:30:28.293 So shops that implement just a quick morning, a quick morning 00:30:28.293 --> 00:30:30.908 rundown type meeting, where they address those concerns and questions 00:30:30.908 --> 00:30:32.869 tend to operate a lot, smoother. 00:30:32.900 --> 00:30:34.655 in my shop, I did a morning meeting like that. 00:30:34.655 --> 00:30:37.090 That was, generally wasn't more than 10 minutes or so, just going 00:30:37.090 --> 00:30:39.413 through the day's priorities and what needs to be addressed and what 00:30:39.413 --> 00:30:40.853 questions and concerns the staff has. 00:30:40.853 --> 00:30:44.894 And then every Monday morning, we did a larger, more like a full blown, 30 00:30:44.894 --> 00:30:47.564 to 45 minute production meeting where we really went into detail, the week's 00:30:47.569 --> 00:30:49.034 priorities, things that are going on. 00:30:49.034 --> 00:30:50.594 And that's, and we've talked about this in the past too. 00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:55.490 We had a Kaban type or Kaizen type session where, everybody was, encouraged to bring. 00:30:55.895 --> 00:30:58.955 Fresh ideas to the table to improve processes and flows. 00:30:59.088 --> 00:31:01.907 but that can be a separate conversation from just a quick morning. 00:31:02.657 --> 00:31:05.741 Hey, let's all get on the same page type of a meeting, but that's critical. 00:31:05.746 --> 00:31:07.312 Don't overlook that, too many shops do. 00:31:07.413 --> 00:31:10.400 so it's really important to, to, that's a great way to get buy in from 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:14.915 your staff too, and get them all, excited about what you're doing and 00:31:15.725 --> 00:31:16.955 encourage them to take ownership. 00:31:16.955 --> 00:31:17.555 And what they're doing, 00:31:18.965 --> 00:31:22.624 Bryant Gillespie: would you say that needs to happen like at the shop level? 00:31:22.654 --> 00:31:25.774 Let's say there's a shop with 1520 employees. 00:31:26.134 --> 00:31:29.594 Is that happen at the shop level or is that like by department? 00:31:29.594 --> 00:31:33.032 Michael Riley: I think that the, like the bigger, like I said, 00:31:33.032 --> 00:31:35.646 like the Monday morning meeting, like that's a little bit longer. 00:31:35.646 --> 00:31:39.216 I feel like that's more appropriate to have the entire shop involved. 00:31:39.244 --> 00:31:42.385 all departments, an all hands on deck type meeting, because there's a 00:31:42.385 --> 00:31:45.265 lot of alignment that has to happen from department two department. 00:31:45.282 --> 00:31:49.182 I think the quick morning rundown type meeting that you do every morning, 00:31:49.182 --> 00:31:52.332 doesn't need to involve the entire shop necessarily, especially if you're a larger 00:31:52.332 --> 00:31:56.732 shop with 20, 30, 40 employees or more that can become a really cumbersome thing 00:31:56.732 --> 00:31:59.203 to organize and get everybody together. 00:31:59.533 --> 00:32:01.626 But I, I think that should at least be done on a, on a 00:32:01.626 --> 00:32:02.796 department by department basis. 00:32:02.796 --> 00:32:05.226 The sales team should have a quick meeting like that. 00:32:05.256 --> 00:32:08.160 The production team should have a quick meeting like that design should and so on, 00:32:08.165 --> 00:32:09.420 and you can all do it at the same time. 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:11.667 So the entire shop is meeting, doing this at the same time. 00:32:11.709 --> 00:32:13.854 and then most of the larger shops that I've worked with that really 00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:17.986 are divided up into, hard and fast departments with each department has 00:32:17.986 --> 00:32:19.316 a manager or department head in it. 00:32:19.316 --> 00:32:24.716 most of those shops that I've seen prior to doing these individual, 00:32:24.819 --> 00:32:29.259 department type rundowns, the department heads will all meet for five or 10 00:32:29.259 --> 00:32:32.679 minutes first, and they'll all align and be on the same page for the day. 00:32:32.679 --> 00:32:34.785 And then they'll go and distill that information down, see their. 00:32:35.445 --> 00:32:37.629 Their individual respected departments. 00:32:37.629 --> 00:32:40.572 that can be done the first 30 minutes of your day. 00:32:40.591 --> 00:32:43.302 sounds like a, a big time commitment if you're doing it every single day, 00:32:43.302 --> 00:32:46.471 but, I think the benefits of it far outweigh, spending a few minutes, 00:32:47.551 --> 00:32:49.831 aligning with everybody else in the shop. 00:32:49.858 --> 00:32:50.051 Bryant Gillespie: yeah. 00:32:50.250 --> 00:32:51.270 I agree with you a hundred percent. 00:32:51.300 --> 00:32:54.980 I think that alignment, if you have managers in each department, 00:32:55.730 --> 00:33:00.440 if they're not communicating well, then you're up shit Creek, right? 00:33:00.530 --> 00:33:01.420 Michael Riley: Like it's bad. 00:33:01.441 --> 00:33:03.506 and it's amazing in this industry, like that's really pervasive. 00:33:03.585 --> 00:33:06.733 I've talked to so many shop owners that they don't do anything to make 00:33:06.733 --> 00:33:12.343 sure that installation team is on the same page as the production team. 00:33:12.348 --> 00:33:12.873 And if you. 00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:16.530 if you're producing a lot of say electrical science, channel letters, 00:33:16.530 --> 00:33:17.760 monument science, things like that. 00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:21.920 The installation part of it is part and parcel of production really in, in the two 00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:23.780 key together and have to go hand in hand. 00:33:23.780 --> 00:33:30.170 And if there's no, no daily alignment between those two teams, when something 00:33:30.170 --> 00:33:33.326 comes outta production, it's gonna be just a complete shock to installation, right? 00:33:33.326 --> 00:33:35.696 and then installation's caught with their pants down and they've gotta 00:33:36.656 --> 00:33:41.745 figure out how now to get this sign on the wall, but doing those daily rundowns 00:33:41.745 --> 00:33:42.885 really quickly between departments. 00:33:42.885 --> 00:33:47.008 Well, you're, your sales team can, your sales manager can say, Hey 00:33:47.098 --> 00:33:50.218 production, we've got this job coming down the line and be prepared for. 00:33:50.218 --> 00:33:52.318 And a production can say, Hey, this set of channel letters is 00:33:52.798 --> 00:33:54.148 three days out for being completed. 00:33:54.148 --> 00:33:57.279 So installation, you need to, be thinking about getting that on the schedule now 00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.424 versus in three days when we get it done. 00:33:59.441 --> 00:34:04.231 tho those little things like that can save fires on the back end. 00:34:04.826 --> 00:34:08.096 If you just put a little bit of forth on, into communicating. 00:34:09.596 --> 00:34:09.746 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. 00:34:09.842 --> 00:34:14.586 I wanna back up for a minute and ask both of you, Michael Peter, as far as 00:34:14.629 --> 00:34:19.214 what are some of the symptoms of this miscommunication or this fumbling, the 00:34:19.219 --> 00:34:23.186 handoff for, let's say we're talking to an owner out there that, may or may not 00:34:23.186 --> 00:34:27.988 know that they're having this problem or they're not sure the root cause. 00:34:27.988 --> 00:34:32.128 Like what are some of the symptoms that they can be able to pick up on that? 00:34:32.278 --> 00:34:32.608 Okay. 00:34:32.608 --> 00:34:35.518 Hey, we've got a problem here at these handoff points. 00:34:38.008 --> 00:34:40.608 Peter Kourounis: Well, a lot of that might actually come from the 00:34:40.613 --> 00:34:42.318 customer, customer complaints. 00:34:42.378 --> 00:34:46.128 If you have some customer complaints and it's set it around 00:34:47.328 --> 00:34:51.168 communication, there that's a telltale sign of it being a problem. 00:34:51.173 --> 00:34:53.898 If that's happening more frequently, you might wanna address that. 00:34:54.678 --> 00:34:58.248 If you're having customer, I'm sorry, not customer. 00:34:58.248 --> 00:35:03.528 If you're having employee arguments or altercations, or maybe even just a 00:35:03.533 --> 00:35:09.208 disagreement of some sort, and that's becoming a more common occurrence. 00:35:09.838 --> 00:35:14.943 That's another sign, sometimes the, yeah, the signs are not gonna be something 00:35:14.943 --> 00:35:16.533 that you have to like search for. 00:35:16.623 --> 00:35:18.453 You'll they'll be front and center. 00:35:18.603 --> 00:35:20.793 They're usually fires that you have to put out. 00:35:20.853 --> 00:35:21.183 Right. 00:35:21.843 --> 00:35:23.343 Where does the fire start from? 00:35:23.403 --> 00:35:24.783 Is it a communication issue? 00:35:25.263 --> 00:35:26.283 Is it a disagreement? 00:35:26.463 --> 00:35:30.153 Is it, he said, she said, is it, you forgot to do this? 00:35:30.153 --> 00:35:32.594 And I put it here that told you to do this. 00:35:33.044 --> 00:35:35.594 So those things are gonna come naturally. 00:35:35.624 --> 00:35:38.234 They'll if you're an, if you're an owner and you're saying that you don't have 00:35:38.234 --> 00:35:40.874 these problems, I don't believe you. 00:35:40.999 --> 00:35:41.419 but. 00:35:43.024 --> 00:35:44.764 Because listen, you're small. 00:35:44.884 --> 00:35:46.504 Most of us are small business owners. 00:35:46.504 --> 00:35:47.794 You're medium sized business owners. 00:35:47.854 --> 00:35:48.664 You're gonna have problems. 00:35:48.814 --> 00:35:50.524 If you don't have problems, call me. 00:35:50.584 --> 00:35:52.144 I want to invest in your business. 00:35:53.704 --> 00:35:54.214 I, I'm not 00:35:54.214 --> 00:35:55.204 Bryant Gillespie: saying they don't have problems. 00:35:55.504 --> 00:35:58.789 I'm just saying they might not realize okay, here's this is 00:35:58.789 --> 00:36:00.409 actually the root of the problem. 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:03.029 And not just, like something on the surface. 00:36:03.809 --> 00:36:06.419 Peter Kourounis: I don't know if Mike's going to agree with me or not, but what 00:36:06.424 --> 00:36:12.119 I'm trying to say is that the problems will present themselves, you don't, 00:36:12.209 --> 00:36:15.539 as an owner, you're not gonna have to look for what caused that problem. 00:36:15.839 --> 00:36:16.469 You're gonna know 00:36:17.909 --> 00:36:19.832 Michael Riley: that I definitely agree the problems are gonna be 00:36:19.832 --> 00:36:21.002 there and you're going to see them. 00:36:21.093 --> 00:36:25.143 I think a lot of, from what I've seen, a lot of shop owners fail to recognize 00:36:25.148 --> 00:36:26.815 why those problems are there though. 00:36:26.828 --> 00:36:27.753 what's causing them. 00:36:27.753 --> 00:36:30.513 One of the things that I've seen at the most that I think at least 00:36:30.513 --> 00:36:32.163 internally is a great indicator, is. 00:36:33.258 --> 00:36:37.128 It's just the level of frustration that your staff has, especially 00:36:37.338 --> 00:36:38.688 past the sales department. 00:36:38.688 --> 00:36:41.391 I mean, once you get to design production and installation, you 00:36:41.391 --> 00:36:44.608 can usually read the pulse of your employees and a a good conscientious 00:36:44.613 --> 00:36:46.198 employee wants to do a good job. 00:36:46.618 --> 00:36:52.918 And they, in order to do a good job, you can't really have that many surprises 00:36:52.918 --> 00:36:56.428 that just pop up throughout your day and completely derail what you're working on, 00:36:56.428 --> 00:36:59.778 whether you're designing, whether you are, 40 feet up in a bucket truck, or whether 00:36:59.783 --> 00:37:03.735 you're fabricating a set of channel letters, get into a flow, you get into the 00:37:03.735 --> 00:37:05.265 zone and you wanna keep working on that. 00:37:05.265 --> 00:37:08.565 And when you have an interruption to that flow, it's frustrating 00:37:08.625 --> 00:37:10.224 and it's legitimately frustrating. 00:37:10.224 --> 00:37:14.898 and even, your dude, that's just glue and trim cap channel letter faces it. 00:37:14.898 --> 00:37:18.378 If he's constantly having to change gears throughout the day, and he's. 00:37:18.933 --> 00:37:19.383 Oh crap. 00:37:19.383 --> 00:37:22.364 I, they just threw this rush job at me or this one just popped up 00:37:22.364 --> 00:37:24.344 and I didn't know about now I've gotta switch gears and do that. 00:37:24.614 --> 00:37:26.294 That can be really frustrating to that person. 00:37:26.299 --> 00:37:29.834 And that prevents him from doing his best work. 00:37:29.894 --> 00:37:33.854 And again, a conscientious employee wants to do their best work and 00:37:33.854 --> 00:37:36.164 they don't like those things that prevent them from doing it. 00:37:36.164 --> 00:37:41.024 So watching that, that employee frustration level, I think is a really 00:37:41.024 --> 00:37:45.325 great indicator of this because that's a lot of the times what it's related to. 00:37:45.392 --> 00:37:47.037 I, I agree customer feedback as well. 00:37:47.037 --> 00:37:50.099 although a lot of times, I mean, not that it really matters in the context 00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:52.649 of this, but a lot of times that can be a lagging indicator of what's going on. 00:37:52.649 --> 00:37:54.779 Cause really you don't get the feedback from the customer until it's too late. 00:37:54.846 --> 00:37:58.295 I mean, you can still use it to, to look forward and solve problems, but you know, 00:37:58.295 --> 00:38:03.545 in, in the heat of the moment, you're not gonna be able to rely on that right then. 00:38:03.545 --> 00:38:03.995 And there 00:38:04.007 --> 00:38:05.833 Bryant Gillespie: one of the ones that I would point out is if 00:38:05.838 --> 00:38:07.623 customers are following up with you. 00:38:07.654 --> 00:38:10.864 if you're, if you told them that you were gonna give them a quote a 00:38:10.864 --> 00:38:14.284 week ago and they're following up on that quote, that's a problem. 00:38:14.764 --> 00:38:20.224 If you are in production and a customer is following up and 00:38:20.224 --> 00:38:22.144 asking, Hey, where's my job at? 00:38:22.714 --> 00:38:25.397 That's a big problem or a big symptom of that's 00:38:25.397 --> 00:38:25.697 Peter Kourounis: a react. 00:38:25.967 --> 00:38:27.437 That's a reactive approach. 00:38:27.460 --> 00:38:29.435 your shop's being reactive at that. 00:38:29.495 --> 00:38:32.495 At that point, you're not being proactive with your communication. 00:38:33.275 --> 00:38:35.459 Absolutely good point. 00:38:35.514 --> 00:38:35.789 good point. 00:38:35.789 --> 00:38:39.659 And Mike, good point there on the delayed barometer of when you know, the 00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:42.940 customer's gonna give you the information before, when it's too late, right. 00:38:42.940 --> 00:38:44.050 They're already upset. 00:38:44.740 --> 00:38:48.190 So you have to, if it's an employee dispute, that's one thing, 00:38:48.190 --> 00:38:49.630 but you have to be the owner. 00:38:49.630 --> 00:38:53.380 That's gonna find out those answers before the customer gets. 00:38:53.380 --> 00:38:55.690 But yes, I agree with you there too. 00:38:55.716 --> 00:38:56.939 good point all the way around, 00:38:56.939 --> 00:39:00.486 Michael Riley: another big area of communication breakdown that I see 00:39:00.846 --> 00:39:02.226 all too often, especially from. 00:39:02.826 --> 00:39:06.461 The seat that I'm in currently as a designer is, the quality of 00:39:06.461 --> 00:39:11.141 the design request to your design department from theoretically your 00:39:11.141 --> 00:39:13.731 sales department, sales team, right 00:39:13.731 --> 00:39:14.831 Bryant Gillespie: name the sales team. 00:39:17.411 --> 00:39:18.551 Michael Riley: I feel like that's a common thing. 00:39:19.661 --> 00:39:20.531 No, it is. 00:39:20.531 --> 00:39:25.869 And a lot of times it's, it is legitimate too because sales people, 00:39:27.069 --> 00:39:29.589 I hope no sales people that are listening to this take offense of those. 00:39:29.589 --> 00:39:31.869 I don't mean this offensively, but sales people are a different breed 00:39:32.469 --> 00:39:35.458 and they don't necessarily think things through, in a systematic way. 00:39:35.458 --> 00:39:38.715 In most cases, some do, we just did the AMA with Dylan and he is somebody 00:39:38.715 --> 00:39:42.578 who is very systematic in the way he purchased sales, but that's rare. 00:39:42.578 --> 00:39:45.128 And that's why Dylan's a really good sales manager and runs a really good 00:39:45.128 --> 00:39:50.617 sales team because he's very process driven, but most of them are sales is 00:39:50.617 --> 00:39:52.947 just a completely chaotic department. 00:39:54.397 --> 00:39:56.557 It's pretty much go sell anything you can to anybody. 00:39:56.887 --> 00:39:59.197 However, you have to close the sale, make it happen. 00:40:00.127 --> 00:40:02.719 And that's the mentality that a lot of sales people operate on is just 00:40:02.724 --> 00:40:04.849 there, there Hells on closing the deal. 00:40:04.872 --> 00:40:09.162 and then once it's closed, they wanna move on to the next sale as quickly as 00:40:09.162 --> 00:40:10.602 possible because that's their livelihood. 00:40:10.602 --> 00:40:12.095 That's how they put food on the table. 00:40:12.095 --> 00:40:16.263 and in the process of that, generally the handoff between sales and the 00:40:16.263 --> 00:40:19.443 next department in line, which is usually sales or estimating or 00:40:19.563 --> 00:40:24.254 designer estimating, usually that handoff is pretty rough at best. 00:40:24.934 --> 00:40:29.704 So I, I think developing some sort of system or process or just form, 00:40:30.064 --> 00:40:36.010 if nothing else, that your sales team is required to fill out, jump 00:40:36.010 --> 00:40:39.220 through some hoops to communicate that information effectively to the next 00:40:39.220 --> 00:40:40.600 person in line is really critical. 00:40:41.845 --> 00:40:46.435 I mean, everybody's gotten an email from an, a salesperson that says, I need a 00:40:46.435 --> 00:40:50.992 channel letter sign that says Bob's used tires and that's all the detail you get. 00:40:51.063 --> 00:40:53.023 and then that's a designer's nightmare, right? 00:40:53.028 --> 00:40:53.683 It is. 00:40:53.688 --> 00:40:55.703 And it happens to us on a daily basis. 00:40:55.732 --> 00:40:56.392 I can relate. 00:40:56.662 --> 00:40:56.752 I 00:40:56.752 --> 00:40:57.352 Peter Kourounis: can relate. 00:40:57.562 --> 00:40:57.652 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:40:57.652 --> 00:41:00.606 I mean it, and then you like, okay, well, what color, how 00:41:00.606 --> 00:41:01.977 big, what, where are my photos? 00:41:01.977 --> 00:41:03.850 Or, and that's two, go ahead. 00:41:03.850 --> 00:41:04.120 Two 00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:05.170 Peter Kourounis: key words for you there. 00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:07.840 Mike required fields. 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:08.800 right. 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:11.700 Well, yeah, I mean, I've, that's gonna 00:41:11.700 --> 00:41:12.260 Michael Riley: solve the problem. 00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:16.990 I've seen shops that are two, $2 million plus at revenue and the 00:41:16.990 --> 00:41:21.940 design request process is the sales rep just forwards the email string 00:41:21.940 --> 00:41:23.320 from their client to the designer. 00:41:23.350 --> 00:41:23.790 Oh, it's awful. 00:41:23.795 --> 00:41:24.250 Oh, it's awful. 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.132 like how the hell designer supposed to figure out what to do with that? 00:41:26.132 --> 00:41:28.142 I mean, you want your designers to sit there for 45 minutes and read 00:41:28.147 --> 00:41:30.062 through an email thread to figure out what this customer wants. 00:41:30.062 --> 00:41:33.542 That's insane, but that's standard operating procedure for 00:41:33.542 --> 00:41:35.072 a shocking number of sign shops. 00:41:35.657 --> 00:41:38.408 And that's such bad business, it's it? 00:41:38.437 --> 00:41:39.337 It makes me cry. 00:41:39.337 --> 00:41:40.747 I lose sleep for forget at night. 00:41:40.754 --> 00:41:40.899 yeah, 00:41:41.859 --> 00:41:42.429 Bryant Gillespie: don't make sense. 00:41:42.434 --> 00:41:43.129 Money cry. 00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:44.289 Don't make a promise. 00:41:44.289 --> 00:41:44.529 Yeah. 00:41:44.529 --> 00:41:47.190 Peter Kourounis: Don't make money cry as a salesperson. 00:41:47.190 --> 00:41:51.120 If you're listening out there, be diligent with your notes to your design 00:41:51.125 --> 00:41:55.080 team, make sure that you're giving them all of those results because 00:41:55.080 --> 00:41:56.580 it's gonna make their lives easier. 00:41:57.150 --> 00:42:02.010 And truthfully it'll make your life easier as well because you won't 00:42:02.010 --> 00:42:03.630 have the constant back and forth. 00:42:03.630 --> 00:42:07.350 If you take the time out initially to give those instructions to 00:42:07.350 --> 00:42:07.500 your 00:42:07.500 --> 00:42:08.190 Michael Riley: design team. 00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:08.700 Totally. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.730 There's a, so I just, for my sign design business, I just started using a new 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.176 web-based app to, to manage my jobs. 00:42:16.190 --> 00:42:19.450 it's called many requests and we'll put a link to that, online as well. 00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:22.150 This app was created for. 00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:27.313 Companies that are in the graphic design business that basically sell, a 00:42:27.313 --> 00:42:30.501 monthly subscription and they give you unlimited designs thinking like design 00:42:30.501 --> 00:42:32.391 pickle, or many pixels type businesses. 00:42:32.457 --> 00:42:35.126 I started using it and I, and I recognized that this could easily be 00:42:35.126 --> 00:42:38.966 adapted as an internal tool communication tool between sales departments and 00:42:38.966 --> 00:42:42.409 design departments where your sales team can create requests in it. 00:42:42.409 --> 00:42:43.039 It'll submit it. 00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.752 And then your design team basically has a job ticket that's automatically 00:42:45.752 --> 00:42:48.511 created in a running job queue, a tool, whether it's that tool or something else. 00:42:48.516 --> 00:42:52.397 I mean, some sort of a job management tool specifically for the design process, 00:42:52.397 --> 00:42:55.567 is really critical to streamline that, that, that communication, like you 00:42:55.567 --> 00:42:58.387 said, required fields, like having a form that says, okay, for channel 00:42:58.387 --> 00:42:59.867 letter signs, what depth is the return? 00:42:59.867 --> 00:43:01.240 Are they, what, what color are the faces? 00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:02.020 Is it Raceway monitor? 00:43:02.020 --> 00:43:05.500 Is it remote manager and all those questions that might take a sales 00:43:05.505 --> 00:43:07.160 rep 10 or 15 minutes to fill out. 00:43:07.795 --> 00:43:11.935 We'll save hours of back and forth in messed up jobs. 00:43:11.935 --> 00:43:13.945 And reproves on the back end. 00:43:13.945 --> 00:43:19.434 if you can just get them to fill it out correctly, the first time, I 00:43:19.439 --> 00:43:23.694 think that's a huge area that shops fall short on that really need to 00:43:24.204 --> 00:43:25.674 focus on and address that more. 00:43:27.384 --> 00:43:29.064 Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna come to the defense of the sales 00:43:29.064 --> 00:43:31.254 reps that may be listening here. 00:43:32.664 --> 00:43:38.814 I agree that it is garbage in garbage out, but I also believe that in, in this 00:43:38.814 --> 00:43:42.294 spirit of good communication, if you're not getting the information that you 00:43:42.294 --> 00:43:46.644 need on the design side, like you gotta communicate that back to me as well. 00:43:47.184 --> 00:43:52.824 And it like, give me the, what I need to effectively get you that information. 00:43:52.914 --> 00:43:55.374 Let's say, like getting you proper artwork. 00:43:55.464 --> 00:44:01.854 We know that is a huge issue for just about every side shop getting 00:44:01.884 --> 00:44:04.584 artwork that you can actually use in production from a customer. 00:44:06.069 --> 00:44:06.579 Crapshoot. 00:44:06.999 --> 00:44:07.389 Totally. 00:44:07.453 --> 00:44:12.663 and more oftentimes than not whoever's taking that order or selling that job may 00:44:13.683 --> 00:44:15.243 is coming across some of that artwork. 00:44:15.423 --> 00:44:19.747 And as a sales rep, I'm, I may or may not be a graphic designer, but, yeah, 00:44:19.747 --> 00:44:22.510 I'm not gonna have that same skill set or that experience that a designer 00:44:22.510 --> 00:44:27.520 would and how to interpret these files or, Hey, is this good or is it bad? 00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:28.720 So, 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:31.578 Michael Riley: yeah, I agree on that a hundred percent and I feel like 00:44:31.578 --> 00:44:32.748 that's top, that's like a rabbit hole. 00:44:32.748 --> 00:44:35.238 We could go down for hours or at least I could go down for hours here, 00:44:35.238 --> 00:44:41.238 but yeah, totally like education and communication go hand in hand and yes, 00:44:41.508 --> 00:44:43.218 you can't communicate what you don't know. 00:44:43.218 --> 00:44:44.148 You need to communicate. 00:44:44.148 --> 00:44:46.458 I think that's a really super important point there. 00:44:46.458 --> 00:44:49.802 So training and education and, cross training to some degree from department 00:44:49.802 --> 00:44:51.272 to department is really important. 00:44:51.272 --> 00:44:54.456 So that yeah, your designer or your sales rep knows. 00:44:55.506 --> 00:44:58.514 The right questions to ask and the right things to, get from the client before 00:44:58.514 --> 00:45:04.664 they even hand it off to design in the design team, conversely needs to make 00:45:04.669 --> 00:45:09.932 sure that the sales team is educated and can speak intelligently about those 00:45:09.932 --> 00:45:14.192 things that will eliminate a lot of the friction between those two departments. 00:45:14.192 --> 00:45:16.502 Just putting them on the same page like that. 00:45:16.922 --> 00:45:17.882 That's a really good point, Brent. 00:45:19.832 --> 00:45:20.192 Bryant Gillespie: Thank you. 00:45:21.122 --> 00:45:21.302 Michael Riley: I think 00:45:21.302 --> 00:45:23.091 Bryant Gillespie: you're this the first compliment I've got this 00:45:23.091 --> 00:45:23.751 Peter Kourounis: is episode. 00:45:24.531 --> 00:45:27.817 That'll be the one and only compliment the one and only that you'll get today. 00:45:27.867 --> 00:45:28.137 Bryant Gillespie: All right. 00:45:28.137 --> 00:45:32.781 So, the next question I've got for you, Mike, is how does the structure of the 00:45:32.781 --> 00:45:36.771 business factor into this handoff issue? 00:45:37.206 --> 00:45:40.477 As far as like the way that the organization and the roles are structured, 00:45:40.477 --> 00:45:44.994 not necessarily Hey, is this a LLC or an escort, but I like the organization chart. 00:45:47.244 --> 00:45:50.034 Michael Riley: I think, no matter how large or small your shop is assuming you 00:45:50.034 --> 00:45:53.184 have an employee beyond just yourself. 00:45:53.184 --> 00:45:54.804 I think it's important to structure something. 00:45:54.925 --> 00:45:58.465 the larger, the company, more than likely the more departments there are 00:45:58.470 --> 00:46:00.055 gonna be the more department heads. 00:46:00.058 --> 00:46:03.725 and the more disconnect the pages that there are, that need to 00:46:04.055 --> 00:46:05.345 all be brought together to one. 00:46:05.371 --> 00:46:10.633 so I think the larger the company and the more granular the organizational 00:46:10.633 --> 00:46:16.123 breakdown, the more important this is first and foremost, it's the 00:46:16.123 --> 00:46:20.423 more critical it is to herd all these cats onto the same page. 00:46:20.449 --> 00:46:23.030 and I think the larger the company, the more important it is 00:46:23.030 --> 00:46:24.484 to probably have that manager's. 00:46:25.654 --> 00:46:30.508 Puddle first, every morning, so that all department heads are on the same page and 00:46:30.508 --> 00:46:33.208 then they can distill that information down to their individual departments. 00:46:33.267 --> 00:46:37.647 I think that's really critical if you have, even if you're not huge, but 00:46:37.647 --> 00:46:41.697 you say you have three departments in house, say sales, design production, 00:46:42.747 --> 00:46:44.127 let's say four, an installation. 00:46:44.697 --> 00:46:47.946 And even if you only have, 10 employees total, there's probably 00:46:48.006 --> 00:46:51.256 one person that takes ownership of each one of those departments. 00:46:51.256 --> 00:46:53.835 and most shops, there's a, a production lead and there's a design lead 00:46:53.835 --> 00:46:55.125 and there's a installation lead. 00:46:55.125 --> 00:46:59.449 Even if they're not a, a true department manager, even in a scenario like that. 00:46:59.449 --> 00:47:06.774 I think it's really important that those leads, at least huddle up and communicate 00:47:06.829 --> 00:47:09.169 and bring themselves onto the same page. 00:47:10.309 --> 00:47:12.868 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, well it, Hey, this has of come up in one of our 00:47:12.868 --> 00:47:15.525 conversations in our mastermind calls. 00:47:16.530 --> 00:47:23.160 I want to throw like a specific example at you of, Hey, like sales is not 00:47:23.160 --> 00:47:28.071 getting enough information and design is saying, Hey, it's sales is saying, 00:47:28.071 --> 00:47:29.601 Hey, I gave you everything you need. 00:47:30.351 --> 00:47:34.071 Neither one of them want to take ownership and communicate with the customers. 00:47:35.391 --> 00:47:35.781 Yeah. 00:47:35.811 --> 00:47:39.471 Is this like a handoff problem or a structured problem? 00:47:39.471 --> 00:47:42.921 Like, how does this, how do we 00:47:42.926 --> 00:47:43.731 Michael Riley: solve this? 00:47:44.091 --> 00:47:45.771 I don't think that's a structural problem. 00:47:45.771 --> 00:47:49.640 And I ultimately, yeah, that's a handoff problem, but I think there's probably 00:47:49.640 --> 00:47:53.720 another layer of problem in there on top of it just being a handoff problem. 00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:57.590 There it, a handoff problem implies that you've got the systems in 00:47:57.590 --> 00:48:00.230 place to, to make a smooth handoff and somebody's not doing their 00:48:00.230 --> 00:48:01.620 job on one side of the equation. 00:48:01.632 --> 00:48:05.502 and in a case like that, if there's probably not really much of a process 00:48:05.507 --> 00:48:08.432 for the handoff in the first place, and there's probably not much, like 00:48:08.432 --> 00:48:11.096 we talked about cross education between those two departments. 00:48:11.096 --> 00:48:15.403 and it's just like a wild west scenario where there is no real laws or rules, 00:48:15.450 --> 00:48:17.580 like the design department's gonna do whatever the hell they want. 00:48:17.580 --> 00:48:19.290 And the sales department is gonna do whatever the hell they 00:48:19.290 --> 00:48:21.047 want and, screw each other. 00:48:21.557 --> 00:48:24.527 If those two things don't align and know they're gonna clash. 00:48:24.527 --> 00:48:25.697 I mean, that's just how it works. 00:48:25.811 --> 00:48:30.651 so that's, I think that's more a lack of just higher level structure, 00:48:30.713 --> 00:48:33.097 or rules in place, and education. 00:48:33.097 --> 00:48:37.748 So I think in a scenario like that the, those two departments 00:48:37.753 --> 00:48:39.548 need to train each other. 00:48:39.668 --> 00:48:43.992 The design department needs to train the sales department on what they 00:48:43.992 --> 00:48:45.647 need and what their job entails. 00:48:45.675 --> 00:48:49.046 a lot of sales people, or a lot of non designers are not 00:48:49.046 --> 00:48:49.946 really necessarily sales. 00:48:49.951 --> 00:48:52.088 I shouldn't say single sales people out, but just a lot of 00:48:52.088 --> 00:48:53.798 people don't know what goes into. 00:48:54.203 --> 00:48:56.105 The design side of things. 00:48:56.105 --> 00:48:57.995 They think you just slap a logo on a picture of a 00:48:57.995 --> 00:48:58.865 building and there's your sign. 00:48:58.865 --> 00:49:00.035 There's a lot more to think through than that. 00:49:00.515 --> 00:49:02.525 Bryant Gillespie: Just moving pixels around on screen, man. 00:49:02.525 --> 00:49:02.615 Right. 00:49:02.615 --> 00:49:03.365 And how hard is it? 00:49:03.815 --> 00:49:04.205 Michael Riley: Totally. 00:49:04.205 --> 00:49:04.775 Exactly. 00:49:04.842 --> 00:49:09.242 and really like the sales department, what they're doing is driving the 00:49:09.242 --> 00:49:12.332 overall scope of the job and the look and feel, the customer wants a sign 00:49:12.332 --> 00:49:14.372 that looks like this, and they want it installed here in the building. 00:49:14.372 --> 00:49:14.612 Right. 00:49:15.602 --> 00:49:19.242 But a lot of the details are left up to the design department to fill in, 00:49:19.278 --> 00:49:22.214 above and beyond, very high level stuff like colors and sizes and 00:49:22.214 --> 00:49:24.344 maybe basic material or construction. 00:49:24.346 --> 00:49:26.433 there's a lot of details the design department has to fill 00:49:26.438 --> 00:49:27.873 in and make educated guesses on. 00:49:28.473 --> 00:49:36.153 So design teaching sales, really what goes into creating that proof 00:49:36.153 --> 00:49:37.377 and using real world examples. 00:49:37.377 --> 00:49:39.893 Like they should, take an actual design request they got and say, okay, let's 00:49:39.893 --> 00:49:43.354 dissect this and figure out, for me to complete this and do a good job and 00:49:43.354 --> 00:49:45.030 create a drawing, that's going to be. 00:49:45.660 --> 00:49:47.790 A sellable presentation for you in the sales department. 00:49:47.790 --> 00:49:49.530 This is what I need, and this is what I go through. 00:49:50.130 --> 00:49:55.590 And then the flip side of that is sales is really hard too. 00:49:55.590 --> 00:49:57.720 And there's a lot that goes into it that people don't realize. 00:49:57.720 --> 00:49:58.560 And don't understand. 00:49:59.010 --> 00:50:00.870 I feel like I've been picking on sales people a lot. 00:50:00.908 --> 00:50:03.706 and I, I don't mean to salespeople are, the engine that drives a sign 00:50:03.706 --> 00:50:06.574 company without salespeople, the same, company's gonna wither and die. 00:50:06.904 --> 00:50:07.024 Oh yeah. 00:50:07.324 --> 00:50:08.434 But they're just a different breed. 00:50:08.434 --> 00:50:09.904 It's a different personality entirely. 00:50:09.904 --> 00:50:17.199 So sales, educating design on what they do in their process, is really important 00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:21.459 too, so that the designers at least are empathetic to what sales is going through 00:50:21.459 --> 00:50:25.308 and how hard it can be sometimes to get a vector logo from a customer or, the prove 00:50:25.308 --> 00:50:32.769 pan own color and designers, tend to have a bit of a, I dunno what the word is. 00:50:32.769 --> 00:50:33.969 I should use here crusty. 00:50:35.109 --> 00:50:36.609 They can, we could be crusty. 00:50:36.621 --> 00:50:38.314 we can be primadonnas. 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:43.729 Sometimes and designers need to meet the sales team halfway. 00:50:43.729 --> 00:50:47.128 And I've seen so many designers that say, I will not design this for you, unless you 00:50:47.133 --> 00:50:49.138 get me a clean vector logo and PMs colors. 00:50:49.798 --> 00:50:51.598 And that's not always possible. 00:50:51.598 --> 00:50:54.919 And designers don't necessarily get that, I mean, so they need to be able to 00:50:54.919 --> 00:51:00.949 recognize that sales is hard sales reps go through hell and back to, to get that job. 00:51:01.249 --> 00:51:05.329 And sometimes they just can't get all the answers and there's gotta 00:51:05.329 --> 00:51:09.679 be some collaboration between those two in some way where they can both. 00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:10.489 I think that's the 00:51:10.489 --> 00:51:11.509 Bryant Gillespie: biggest thing, right? 00:51:11.514 --> 00:51:14.963 This is just being open and collaborating instead of ah, Hey, 00:51:15.023 --> 00:51:16.883 like they're not giving me what I need 00:51:16.883 --> 00:51:19.223 Michael Riley: or so I'm just not gonna do it, right. 00:51:19.223 --> 00:51:19.673 Yeah, 00:51:19.763 --> 00:51:20.123 Bryant Gillespie: yeah. 00:51:20.561 --> 00:51:22.922 or Hey, this is, this one's fuzzy. 00:51:22.922 --> 00:51:24.212 So I'm gonna do this other job. 00:51:24.392 --> 00:51:26.663 That's I've got the details for right. 00:51:26.933 --> 00:51:27.583 Michael Riley: It's right. 00:51:27.671 --> 00:51:30.831 so it just. 00:51:31.846 --> 00:51:34.265 I think being sympathetic to both of those respected departments 00:51:34.265 --> 00:51:37.084 and what they go through and understanding, their walk in this 00:51:37.089 --> 00:51:38.344 industry, I think is really important. 00:51:38.344 --> 00:51:39.568 And that's true of any department. 00:51:39.568 --> 00:51:40.798 That's not just sales design. 00:51:40.798 --> 00:51:44.308 I mean, the same can be set of design to production and production to installation. 00:51:44.313 --> 00:51:49.318 I mean, these are all very unique, specific disciplines that, and the 00:51:49.318 --> 00:51:52.018 people that are doing them are gonna have their own unique personalities. 00:51:52.048 --> 00:51:54.838 And it's always oil and water. 00:51:54.898 --> 00:51:56.385 I mean, they never perfectly mesh. 00:51:56.457 --> 00:51:59.506 so, like we said, just creating that environment or that, that 00:51:59.506 --> 00:52:02.806 culture where there is two way collaboration and communication 00:52:02.806 --> 00:52:06.496 and empathy for those departments. 00:52:07.126 --> 00:52:07.336 Yeah. 00:52:07.516 --> 00:52:07.816 We'll go. 00:52:07.821 --> 00:52:08.506 I like the, 00:52:08.531 --> 00:52:12.310 Bryant Gillespie: I, I like the idea of forced job shadowing or 00:52:12.312 --> 00:52:16.865 Hey, you do somebody else's role for one day or a week or something. 00:52:16.865 --> 00:52:21.200 And, especially like new employees or if you hire a new sales rep, Pair 00:52:21.200 --> 00:52:24.740 them up with the designers for a week or the production guys for a week. 00:52:25.160 --> 00:52:25.430 Yeah. 00:52:25.430 --> 00:52:27.998 and just have them do actual production work, I think that was, 00:52:28.043 --> 00:52:30.648 Michael Riley: or at least, I mean, sometimes you can't put a sales rep 00:52:30.648 --> 00:52:33.901 and if you're, fabricating big monument sign, like here's a welder yeah. 00:52:33.901 --> 00:52:34.231 Bryant Gillespie: Right. 00:52:34.771 --> 00:52:35.201 That's true. 00:52:35.201 --> 00:52:37.703 but, if you're the the smaller vinyl side shop, 00:52:38.153 --> 00:52:39.263 Michael Riley: right, right. 00:52:39.263 --> 00:52:39.533 Yeah. 00:52:39.533 --> 00:52:41.693 That's a little more realistic, but either whether, whether they're actually 00:52:41.693 --> 00:52:44.153 hands on helping or whether they're just standing there and observing and 00:52:44.153 --> 00:52:48.450 taking notes, visually seeing something, experiencing it firsthand, whether you're 00:52:48.450 --> 00:52:54.619 doing it or whether you're watching an expert, do it goes a long, towards, I keep 00:52:54.619 --> 00:52:55.999 using the word empathy and I don't know. 00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.464 I feel like that's the best word I can come up with. 00:52:57.510 --> 00:52:59.963 just understanding what it takes to build that sign. 00:53:00.013 --> 00:53:00.103 yeah. 00:53:00.103 --> 00:53:01.483 I think empathy is a good word for. 00:53:02.143 --> 00:53:02.593 Yeah. 00:53:02.778 --> 00:53:05.778 I mean, I've, there's so many sales reps that don't know what it takes to build 00:53:05.778 --> 00:53:08.591 a sign or so many designers that don't know what it takes to build a sign. 00:53:08.591 --> 00:53:11.501 And there's so many fabricators that don't have any idea what it takes to 00:53:11.501 --> 00:53:12.701 sell that sign that they're building. 00:53:13.331 --> 00:53:17.105 So that goes a long way towards putting everybody on the same page and just 00:53:17.255 --> 00:53:20.255 reminding them that at the end of the day, we're all on the same team, even 00:53:20.255 --> 00:53:21.155 though we're separate departments. 00:53:21.155 --> 00:53:23.735 And I feel like we're in way competing with each other at rivals, 00:53:24.395 --> 00:53:27.245 we are all on the same page, we're on the same team and we're all 00:53:27.245 --> 00:53:28.805 working towards the same end goal. 00:53:29.915 --> 00:53:31.977 And we're all just part of that process to get there. 00:53:32.032 --> 00:53:34.348 and realigning based on that, 00:53:34.398 --> 00:53:38.148 Bryant Gillespie: let's jump into some more like tactical recommendations. 00:53:38.148 --> 00:53:43.754 Hey, if we're dropping the ball on this, what are some of the things that we can 00:53:43.754 --> 00:53:45.655 look at and start doing to sort it out. 00:53:48.730 --> 00:53:51.640 Michael Riley: Well, I think first and foremost would be, to me, it 00:53:51.640 --> 00:53:54.648 would be interviewing your staff and finding out what their frustrations 00:53:54.648 --> 00:53:57.973 are, what they perceive as, what's causing communication breakdowns, 00:53:57.973 --> 00:54:01.007 or what's causing these difficulties in their, their particular role. 00:54:01.048 --> 00:54:04.676 having the knowledge and understanding information and what your employees go 00:54:04.676 --> 00:54:05.906 through, I think is first and foremost. 00:54:05.906 --> 00:54:09.747 Cause if you don't understand what their complaints or concerns or 00:54:09.747 --> 00:54:12.722 frustrations are you really can't just take a stab in the dark at that. 00:54:12.722 --> 00:54:14.162 You're not gonna be able to address it very well. 00:54:14.822 --> 00:54:18.992 So, and that's not really a, I mean, that's just taking 'em out to lunch 00:54:18.992 --> 00:54:21.242 and having a conversation with 'em, whether it's one-on-one or whether 00:54:21.242 --> 00:54:22.490 it's, in an entire department. 00:54:22.580 --> 00:54:22.640 Yeah. 00:54:23.030 --> 00:54:24.470 I'm a huge fan of one on ones. 00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:25.220 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, absolutely. 00:54:25.670 --> 00:54:25.970 Michael Riley: Yeah. 00:54:26.030 --> 00:54:28.490 It might have, I mean, if you have 60 employees that might not be realistic 00:54:28.540 --> 00:54:29.450 to, to do that with everybody. 00:54:29.630 --> 00:54:29.960 That's true. 00:54:30.020 --> 00:54:30.440 Correct. 00:54:30.860 --> 00:54:31.130 Right. 00:54:31.130 --> 00:54:33.142 But you, I mean, I think you could, I, I think you could definitely 00:54:33.142 --> 00:54:35.479 take that entire department, take your entire production department 00:54:35.479 --> 00:54:39.203 out for pizza and beer, and just, and encourage them to speak openly. 00:54:39.203 --> 00:54:43.029 And honestly, and as you as an owner of the person in, tasked with resolving this 00:54:43.029 --> 00:54:47.190 problem, like you've gotta be ready and willing to hear their criticism, openly 00:54:47.430 --> 00:54:49.500 and not criticize back and point fingers. 00:54:49.505 --> 00:54:50.150 And, and that's, 00:54:50.150 --> 00:54:51.440 Bryant Gillespie: that's a challenge in and of itself. 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.010 Sometimes 00:54:52.110 --> 00:54:52.470 Michael Riley: that's real hard. 00:54:52.470 --> 00:54:54.675 and I, honestly, I would say that if you really wanna get down to the 00:54:54.680 --> 00:54:58.335 meat potatoes of why communications breakdown, communication, breakdowns 00:54:58.335 --> 00:55:03.045 happen is because the powers that be are closed off to hearing that criticism. 00:55:03.045 --> 00:55:05.958 And they're not willing to, to look introspectively on, on why 00:55:05.958 --> 00:55:10.488 it's happening, but starting there documenting what's happening, why it's 00:55:10.488 --> 00:55:13.052 happening, interviewing your staff is, has gotta be the starting point. 00:55:13.065 --> 00:55:16.605 and I, I think throughout those conversations, once you've talked to 00:55:16.605 --> 00:55:17.719 everybody in your shop, I think the. 00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:22.679 Maybe not the solution, but the path forward the road you need 00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:25.539 to take is going to float to the surface and present itself to you. 00:55:25.546 --> 00:55:28.666 and then from there you just need to start implementing whatever tools 00:55:28.666 --> 00:55:32.990 and systems and processes that, apply to your particular scenario. 00:55:34.250 --> 00:55:38.210 Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, absolutely SOPs and checklists and things like that. 00:55:38.210 --> 00:55:42.127 Come up a lot in our Facebook group where we talked to all these owners. 00:55:42.228 --> 00:55:46.848 so I absolutely think you've got to, once you've identified those problems, you 00:55:46.848 --> 00:55:50.493 gotta dive into that side of things and start saying, okay, here's the way that 00:55:50.493 --> 00:55:55.773 we get files from customers or here's the way that we document that handoff. 00:55:55.893 --> 00:55:56.523 Okay. 00:55:56.583 --> 00:55:57.513 You're the sales rep. 00:55:57.963 --> 00:56:01.713 Here's everything that you need to enter a job properly. 00:56:02.283 --> 00:56:05.463 And there has to be accountability on the other side of it as well. 00:56:05.523 --> 00:56:09.493 So, whether that's you as the owner, that's providing that accountability 00:56:09.493 --> 00:56:13.693 or there's the sales manager or an operations manager, like it. 00:56:14.758 --> 00:56:19.138 There has to be somebody who is reviewing that and paying attention to it. 00:56:19.143 --> 00:56:22.738 Because one of the things that I've seen a hundred times, and you've seen 00:56:22.738 --> 00:56:27.688 this at shop box as well, is like the owners will implement a process. 00:56:28.528 --> 00:56:33.508 Things go well for two weeks, they step back and do something else and then come 00:56:33.508 --> 00:56:36.118 back 12 weeks later or a month later. 00:56:36.688 --> 00:56:39.428 And Hey, we're no longer following that process. 00:56:39.459 --> 00:56:43.029 because something happened, somebody, it wasn't communicating 00:56:43.034 --> 00:56:47.529 somebody called in audible to, to get back to our football analogy. 00:56:48.069 --> 00:56:51.822 and then that became the default play from there on out. 00:56:52.602 --> 00:56:52.932 Michael Riley: Right. 00:56:53.952 --> 00:56:59.802 I think regardless of the topic, if you're implementing systems and processes 00:56:59.802 --> 00:57:01.810 and SOPs, that's a continuous process. 00:57:01.810 --> 00:57:04.939 You can't just do it once and walk away from it and expect it's gonna, hold up. 00:57:04.944 --> 00:57:08.832 You've gotta, it's something that you've gotta constantly reinforce and, Refine 00:57:09.012 --> 00:57:12.619 and fine tune and keep on everybody's, at the front of everybody's mind. 00:57:12.649 --> 00:57:16.037 it's impossible to implement systems and processes and then just walk 00:57:16.042 --> 00:57:17.117 away and hope that they stick. 00:57:17.297 --> 00:57:18.347 It just doesn't work that way. 00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:20.777 especially in this industry where everything is, everything is rush 00:57:20.782 --> 00:57:22.187 driven, everything is deadline driven. 00:57:22.187 --> 00:57:25.967 Everything is custom and has to pass through multiple hands in departments. 00:57:25.967 --> 00:57:31.397 And there's a lot of waste and errors and mistakes and other human factors 00:57:31.397 --> 00:57:35.547 that play into how quickly something goes from point a to point B in a shop. 00:57:35.547 --> 00:57:38.520 and that's where, when those things happen, that's where the system is 00:57:38.520 --> 00:57:41.520 in processes break down, because now you're behind the eight ball and 00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:44.010 you've gotta reprint something and shit, let's just get it done really 00:57:44.010 --> 00:57:47.400 quickly and skirt the system so that we can get it in the customer's hands 00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:52.080 Bryant Gillespie: hundred, hundred, hundred percent. 00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:53.520 Yeah, that was gonna be my next point. 00:57:53.575 --> 00:57:58.195 before I died, there was, is that, If you, if everything is a rush job, 00:57:58.195 --> 00:58:02.605 or if you haven't communicated the right expectations to the client up 00:58:02.605 --> 00:58:07.675 front, and like you're continually just like the stress level is high. 00:58:07.675 --> 00:58:09.708 The tensions are mounting in the shop. 00:58:09.708 --> 00:58:11.998 like those handoffs are gonna be stressful, even if you've 00:58:11.998 --> 00:58:13.754 got great systems in place. 00:58:13.774 --> 00:58:16.901 and a lot of shops that we talk to, obviously don't, so that's where 00:58:16.921 --> 00:58:19.043 the problems compound and grow. 00:58:19.043 --> 00:58:20.813 And it really cause 00:58:20.813 --> 00:58:21.803 Michael Riley: expensive mistakes. 00:58:22.403 --> 00:58:22.763 Right. 00:58:22.852 --> 00:58:26.217 that's a really good point too, is, we're talking about internal communication here. 00:58:26.246 --> 00:58:29.390 but there's also communication with the customer and there's handoff with 00:58:29.390 --> 00:58:31.880 the customer too, just like there is from department to department in your 00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:35.258 shop and that's the two are one are two sides of the same coin, whether you're 00:58:35.258 --> 00:58:37.478 communicating with the customer, you're communicating with your production 00:58:37.478 --> 00:58:42.369 manager or whatever, and having those systems in processes in place. 00:58:44.409 --> 00:58:48.736 Not only for when jobs go smoothly, but also, when things go off the 00:58:48.736 --> 00:58:54.946 rails, we'll make the communication with the customer a lot easier and 00:58:54.946 --> 00:58:58.682 smoother and just establishing realistic expectations front for your customer. 00:58:58.682 --> 00:59:02.864 And this goes back also to training sales, whether it's the design team, training, 00:59:02.864 --> 00:59:05.823 the sales on what they need, or the production team or installation team. 00:59:05.823 --> 00:59:09.221 if sales, if your salesperson or your sales team is a hundred percent 00:59:09.431 --> 00:59:11.741 up to speed and on board with what everybody else in the shop is 00:59:11.741 --> 00:59:15.371 doing, they're going to be able to communicate realistic expectations 00:59:15.371 --> 00:59:17.651 to your customer on lead time. 00:59:17.711 --> 00:59:20.436 And, there's material shortages left and right right now, so, we're 00:59:20.436 --> 00:59:22.836 gonna put this into production, but there could be delays. 00:59:22.836 --> 00:59:25.120 We, you need to expect that there, we can't control when 00:59:25.120 --> 00:59:26.050 we get this material in. 00:59:26.050 --> 00:59:30.382 And if we're not able to get it to meet your deadline, we'll figure out a plan 00:59:30.382 --> 00:59:34.342 B, but you know, know this going into it, that this might be an issue that arises. 00:59:35.002 --> 00:59:38.902 Things like that, planting those seeds in your customer's head at 00:59:38.902 --> 00:59:44.562 the point of sale at the time of sale will eliminate a lot of that 00:59:45.102 --> 00:59:46.542 frustration on the customers end too. 00:59:46.542 --> 00:59:49.842 And then having to follow up with you constantly, but it all goes back 00:59:49.842 --> 00:59:52.272 to internal communication so that your salesperson or your project 00:59:52.272 --> 00:59:55.062 manager or your customer service rep is able to communicate effectively 00:59:55.062 --> 00:59:56.082 with the client of the first place. 00:59:57.492 --> 00:59:57.972 Bryant Gillespie: Absolutely. 00:59:58.062 --> 00:59:58.512 Well said. 00:59:59.052 --> 00:59:59.425 Well set. 00:59:59.475 --> 01:00:02.124 All right, guys, let's bring this one to a close, what's a, 01:00:02.304 --> 01:00:03.714 the rapid fire takeaways today. 01:00:03.719 --> 01:00:04.074 Peter 01:00:07.994 --> 01:00:08.614 Peter Kourounis: use slack. 01:00:08.714 --> 01:00:10.404 If your communication sucks. 01:00:12.154 --> 01:00:12.714 Bryant Gillespie: I like that one. 01:00:13.114 --> 01:00:15.564 I like that one short to the point Mike 01:00:16.024 --> 01:00:16.314 Michael Riley: sign. 01:00:16.884 --> 01:00:17.364 I like it. 01:00:17.364 --> 01:00:21.787 lean on sign, bunny, sign money, lean on tools and apps and integrations 01:00:21.787 --> 01:00:23.205 to streamline, communication. 01:00:23.210 --> 01:00:24.375 But don't forget. 01:00:25.665 --> 01:00:30.825 Just face to face conversations and meetings and go a long way towards getting 01:00:30.825 --> 01:00:35.188 everybody on the same page and having an op open environment for communication, 01:00:35.188 --> 01:00:41.008 where communication and questions and concerns are encouraged to be brought 01:00:41.013 --> 01:00:43.409 to the surface is hugely important. 01:00:43.409 --> 01:00:47.476 Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go on your side here, Mike, make the time and 01:00:47.476 --> 01:00:52.876 space to work on the relationships with your employees and between departments. 01:00:53.866 --> 01:00:55.186 It's critical. 01:00:55.276 --> 01:00:56.296 Absolutely critical. 01:00:57.256 --> 01:00:58.306 Can't stress it enough. 01:00:59.956 --> 01:01:00.946 You want good workflow? 01:01:01.876 --> 01:01:02.566 I got it. 01:01:02.896 --> 01:01:06.136 When you fix your relationships inside the shop. 01:01:07.786 --> 01:01:08.296 Peter Kourounis: all right, guys. 01:01:08.296 --> 01:01:09.346 See you on the next soon. 01:01:10.036 --> 01:01:10.306 Michael Riley: All right. 01:01:11.176 --> 01:01:12.176 See you guys see you guys