WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:47.589 --> 00:01:49.149 TheDuke: Holy mackerel. 00:01:49.149 --> 00:01:51.219 We are back from Knowledge 23. 00:01:51.219 --> 00:01:51.939 What would you say, Corey? 00:01:51.939 --> 00:01:54.189 Barely, I'm barely back from Knowledge 23, 00:01:54.199 --> 00:01:57.979 CJ: Man, I have a Knowledge 23 Hangover Duke, like I am. 00:01:59.244 --> 00:02:01.254 TheDuke: I'm not even sure I'm at the hangover stage yet. 00:02:01.254 --> 00:02:04.854 I'm still high, like I'm, I'm shredding the hangover 00:02:05.944 --> 00:02:06.724 CJ: I, I miss it. 00:02:06.784 --> 00:02:08.944 Like it, it was just such a great experience. 00:02:09.184 --> 00:02:10.774 And for me especially, right? 00:02:10.774 --> 00:02:13.714 Like, I mean, I know a lot of listeners, if you were knowledge, you probably saw 00:02:13.714 --> 00:02:15.574 my face all over the place, but you know, 00:02:15.834 --> 00:02:16.194 TheDuke: the place. 00:02:16.194 --> 00:02:17.094 It was awesome. 00:02:18.349 --> 00:02:21.079 CJ: But it, but it is also like coming back from the pandemic. 00:02:21.229 --> 00:02:25.649 Get everybody from around planet in one place, talking service now, like 00:02:25.654 --> 00:02:28.824 it, it is , such a tremendous amount of passion and electricity in the air. 00:02:29.174 --> 00:02:32.051 TheDuke: So much energy, it is always been an energetic event, but you 00:02:32.051 --> 00:02:34.721 could have 10 more knowledges and not capture that energy, I think. 00:02:35.106 --> 00:02:36.546 CJ: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:02:36.816 --> 00:02:40.296 it was definitely my favorite of all of those that I've attended. 00:02:40.296 --> 00:02:44.406 And I started back in 2013, so this was like my 10th anniversary of knowledge 00:02:44.646 --> 00:02:48.036 and I, we'll just go ahead and include the digital ones too and say that 00:02:48.036 --> 00:02:51.246 this is like my 10th knowledge and it was just like the best of all of 'em. 00:02:51.607 --> 00:02:54.661 TheDuke: Speaking of everybody, we have a very special guest today. 00:02:55.286 --> 00:02:56.726 CJ: And speaking of global, 00:02:58.471 --> 00:02:59.101 TheDuke: Yeah. 00:02:59.242 --> 00:03:02.087 so love to, welcome to the show, mark Rudolph. 00:03:02.531 --> 00:03:03.341 Mark: thank you. 00:03:03.611 --> 00:03:04.691 Good to be here. 00:03:04.881 --> 00:03:05.901 TheDuke: it's our second time around. 00:03:05.901 --> 00:03:06.802 Did I pronounce the last name right? 00:03:07.781 --> 00:03:08.921 Mark: Yeah, absolutely. 00:03:08.951 --> 00:03:09.591 No worries. 00:03:09.611 --> 00:03:10.101 spot on. 00:03:10.644 --> 00:03:11.994 TheDuke: So Mark, was that knowledge too? 00:03:11.994 --> 00:03:13.074 What did you think, mark? 00:03:14.099 --> 00:03:16.039 Mark: Oh, let's, uh, it was a lot. 00:03:16.099 --> 00:03:21.139 obviously there's Las Vegas and there's the conference both really interesting. 00:03:21.889 --> 00:03:25.639 Uh, cause I, I, I, uh, I didn't visit Las Vegas before, so it 00:03:25.699 --> 00:03:27.429 was my first time in, Las Vegas. 00:03:27.636 --> 00:03:32.217 I had good fun, Saw a lot of new things, new impressions, met a lot 00:03:32.217 --> 00:03:34.377 of people, walked a lot of miles. 00:03:34.377 --> 00:03:38.524 So, uh, the, the, the, the, the comfy shoes, things that everyone 00:03:38.524 --> 00:03:40.121 is mentioning, definitely do. 00:03:40.121 --> 00:03:41.896 So, Yeah. 00:03:41.896 --> 00:03:43.426 And also a bit of a hangover. 00:03:43.426 --> 00:03:47.676 I really had to recover on, on Sunday and Monday, but now, almost a week 00:03:47.676 --> 00:03:52.056 later, I'm already like, well, we could do this again next month. 00:03:52.836 --> 00:03:53.676 Um, 00:03:54.861 --> 00:03:56.091 TheDuke: If only worked that way. 00:03:56.251 --> 00:03:56.471 Wow. 00:03:56.711 --> 00:03:57.061 CJ: right. 00:03:57.191 --> 00:04:00.666 Mark: it, it was, uh, it was a really good experience and obviously, 00:04:00.726 --> 00:04:02.766 , knowledge being global again. 00:04:02.856 --> 00:04:03.756 lot of people. 00:04:03.921 --> 00:04:06.921 I think si about 16,000 people, I guess. 00:04:07.281 --> 00:04:07.431 yeah. 00:04:07.431 --> 00:04:09.171 And good, good sessions. 00:04:09.401 --> 00:04:12.606 , so yeah, I thought the level , was pretty, pretty well, 00:04:13.171 --> 00:04:13.381 CJ: You, 00:04:13.536 --> 00:04:13.686 Mark: yeah. 00:04:13.691 --> 00:04:14.376 Really nice. 00:04:14.741 --> 00:04:16.571 CJ: you said it was your first time in Vegas. 00:04:16.571 --> 00:04:16.861 Right? 00:04:16.871 --> 00:04:19.687 and that just made me think about that, for first timers to 00:04:19.687 --> 00:04:21.517 Vegas and coming to knowledge. 00:04:22.672 --> 00:04:25.732 Like I almost feel like you need to get there a couple days early, right? 00:04:25.732 --> 00:04:27.199 I feel like knowledge kicks off. 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.456 Like, well I know pre-con kicks off on like Sunday or something, but knowledge 00:04:30.461 --> 00:04:34.236 kicks off in earnest typically like that Tuesday, I almost feel like you need 00:04:34.236 --> 00:04:39.356 to get in on Saturday and just explore and have the Vegas experience, right? 00:04:39.356 --> 00:04:41.946 So by the time knowledge kicks off, you're not. 00:04:42.141 --> 00:04:43.971 Vegas scene two, right? 00:04:43.971 --> 00:04:46.701 Like you're, you've, you've experienced it, you're good with 00:04:46.701 --> 00:04:49.791 it, and now you can kind of focus a little bit more on knowledge than 00:04:49.857 --> 00:04:51.627 the city that never sleeps, right? 00:04:51.687 --> 00:04:52.707 Because it doesn't sleep. 00:04:53.242 --> 00:04:54.712 Mark: Yeah, that's, definitely so. 00:04:54.712 --> 00:04:58.762 And actually, uh, um, uh, I also arrived on on Saturday 00:04:58.767 --> 00:05:00.929 and I left, the Saturday after. 00:05:01.131 --> 00:05:03.891 So I did, uh, indeed at a, at a few days exon. 00:05:03.921 --> 00:05:07.467 That was really well, that also contributed to the extra miles, 00:05:07.492 --> 00:05:11.167 or I don't know exactly in mouses, but like in kilometers, , I 00:05:11.167 --> 00:05:13.937 walked about 116 kilometers. 00:05:15.064 --> 00:05:18.334 so that was a lot where we even attempted to walk. 00:05:18.432 --> 00:05:20.232 from the new strip to the old strip. 00:05:20.232 --> 00:05:25.399 But that was a bit much, and especially being, uh, being so hot, uh, 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:28.489 outside, while we were there because it was a really good temperature. 00:05:28.726 --> 00:05:32.309 But Getting a few days, uh, earlier in seeing Las Vegas and 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:36.032 yeah, a lot of impressions of course, but, really interesting. 00:05:36.156 --> 00:05:40.796 definitely a good thing to go, uh, a few days earlier to adapt if you 00:05:40.801 --> 00:05:44.121 need to, but also to, to be able to, to see a lot of, uh, Things. 00:05:44.121 --> 00:05:49.054 And also because everything is so big already in the convention center 00:05:49.054 --> 00:05:53.274 itself to just know your way little bit around, uh, the, the script. 00:05:53.844 --> 00:05:56.724 Uh, so yeah, just a good thing. 00:05:57.139 --> 00:05:58.309 TheDuke: Speaking of interesting. 00:05:58.421 --> 00:06:01.661 and like everybody's talked about the energy level, but what, what 00:06:01.661 --> 00:06:05.561 did you think was the biggest, technical spectacle of knowledge? 00:06:05.566 --> 00:06:07.061 What, what were you most impressed by? 00:06:07.061 --> 00:06:07.801 Technically, I. 00:06:08.171 --> 00:06:08.921 Mark: maybe two things. 00:06:09.251 --> 00:06:13.131 first, how well the organization was because how big everything 00:06:13.136 --> 00:06:17.522 is and how smooth, , everything seemed to be for us as visitors. 00:06:18.032 --> 00:06:20.549 So that was, a huge compliment to serve now. 00:06:21.386 --> 00:06:22.386 I'm just looking at. 00:06:22.746 --> 00:06:27.602 All the information and knowledge, obviously, gen ai, is a subject 00:06:27.622 --> 00:06:31.566 which pops in mind immediately and, and is, yeah, is announced. 00:06:31.586 --> 00:06:35.616 really big and obviously some amazing demos on it. 00:06:35.621 --> 00:06:38.226 Obviously they were demos, so let's see. 00:06:38.836 --> 00:06:43.192 But, um, gen ai, generative a, uh, ai, does really pop out, right? 00:06:43.479 --> 00:06:44.619 that was the biggest thing. 00:06:45.239 --> 00:06:47.279 TheDuke: maybe we could take a few minutes and talk about. 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.219 Use cases we can all imagine for Gen ai. 00:06:50.686 --> 00:06:51.896 CJ: Oh, I think that's a great idea. 00:06:52.646 --> 00:06:54.116 TheDuke: I'm gonna steal some from the show. 00:06:54.116 --> 00:06:57.656 Like I, I had the blessing and opportunity to be a judge in the hackathon this year, 00:06:57.656 --> 00:06:58.356 CJ: Oh, nice. 00:06:58.496 --> 00:06:59.906 TheDuke: there's a couple cool use cases. 00:06:59.996 --> 00:07:03.836 one of them was basically taking all the stories and stuff from a sprint 00:07:04.016 --> 00:07:07.586 and basically summarizing them all into like one release note sheet, 00:07:08.359 --> 00:07:10.009 which I thought was pretty cool. 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:11.009 CJ: Wait, wait, wait. 00:07:11.014 --> 00:07:11.589 Say that again? 00:07:12.051 --> 00:07:15.381 TheDuke: basically you would take a application or something with a 00:07:15.381 --> 00:07:19.311 lot of stories linked to it for a given sprint, and then Gen AI would 00:07:19.311 --> 00:07:23.656 basically rip through it and then make a summary of what was in plain 00:07:23.656 --> 00:07:25.226 English of what was gonna be deployed. 00:07:26.336 --> 00:07:27.506 CJ: Yeah, that's what I thought you said. 00:07:27.506 --> 00:07:30.776 It was funny because I'm actually using chat g p t for that right now. 00:07:30.946 --> 00:07:31.236 TheDuke: Nice. 00:07:34.256 --> 00:07:35.246 CJ: So that's, pretty cool. 00:07:35.306 --> 00:07:35.516 All right. 00:07:35.516 --> 00:07:36.056 What else you gotta do? 00:07:36.497 --> 00:07:39.224 TheDuke: another team, it was actually the team that won the 00:07:39.229 --> 00:07:41.654 application engine studio, , category. 00:07:41.954 --> 00:07:45.657 But they had some part of the city planning would do marketing for an 00:07:45.657 --> 00:07:50.561 event, and instead of hiring a marketing firm or whatever, it It was a really 00:07:50.561 --> 00:07:54.281 simple workflow like, Hey, market this event, here's the topic, here's 00:07:54.281 --> 00:07:58.361 the date and the location, and it would go out to chat, g p t and chat. 00:07:58.366 --> 00:08:01.031 G p T would make you the copy for a flyer. 00:08:01.489 --> 00:08:01.669 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:01.669 --> 00:08:02.269 That's awesome. 00:08:02.742 --> 00:08:03.282 That that's 00:08:03.317 --> 00:08:05.884 TheDuke: thinking, so basically like anything that involves at 00:08:05.889 --> 00:08:09.724 least a draft of writing something is on the docket for chat. 00:08:09.724 --> 00:08:10.144 G P T. 00:08:11.099 --> 00:08:11.339 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:11.339 --> 00:08:14.122 And you know, that one's a bit near to my heart Being an elected 00:08:14.122 --> 00:08:15.382 official in a village, right? 00:08:15.382 --> 00:08:18.997 Like that's something I can very easily imagine us, utilizing here. 00:08:19.374 --> 00:08:20.064 TheDuke: what about you, mark? 00:08:20.064 --> 00:08:21.474 You see anything on the horizon for that? 00:08:21.762 --> 00:08:25.616 Mark: Well, I think like what you're saying, like, that certain documentation 00:08:25.616 --> 00:08:30.082 or whatever is being, created already and that you got the first draft. 00:08:30.772 --> 00:08:33.322 So that could be really helpful. 00:08:33.452 --> 00:08:37.339 but yeah, also the geni, what, what they show that knowledge 00:08:37.359 --> 00:08:41.937 that code is being generated, that flows are being generated for you. 00:08:42.566 --> 00:08:48.586 Uh, based on limited input or I was at one session and that was 00:08:48.586 --> 00:08:52.389 about, generating ATF tests for you. 00:08:52.884 --> 00:08:53.104 CJ: Ooh. 00:08:53.979 --> 00:08:54.669 Mark: and okay. 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:56.439 They speeded up the demo a bit. 00:08:56.649 --> 00:09:01.362 They also said so because, also took, uh, several minutes, but with a push 00:09:01.362 --> 00:09:07.302 on the button, they could actually generate hundreds of ATF tests based on. 00:09:07.669 --> 00:09:12.679 How instant management was set up on that instance, but also they can account 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:17.419 what customizations you did or if you had some custom fields or, they even 00:09:17.419 --> 00:09:22.369 mentioned they could do that in theory on custom applications and whatever. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:24.509 So that would really be interesting. 00:09:24.662 --> 00:09:27.476 so yeah, there was a huge use cases. 00:09:27.506 --> 00:09:28.376 I do think it's. 00:09:28.511 --> 00:09:29.606 the base setup. 00:09:29.606 --> 00:09:35.666 It's the, the first several percentage of, of things that's being generated for you. 00:09:35.666 --> 00:09:38.606 And then you still have to do a lot of things yourself. 00:09:38.936 --> 00:09:43.249 But I do think, yeah, that it will speed up the consultants a lot 00:09:43.249 --> 00:09:47.749 and that you can do probably way more in the same amount of time. 00:09:47.956 --> 00:09:48.346 yeah. 00:09:48.681 --> 00:09:50.871 CJ: So you just said something that's really, interesting to me. 00:09:50.871 --> 00:09:54.891 Mark, you, you mentioned how that it's the base setup and then you'll still have to 00:09:54.891 --> 00:09:56.721 do like some configuration on top of it. 00:09:57.111 --> 00:10:00.247 I think that's very important to note, for a couple different reasons. 00:10:00.252 --> 00:10:03.377 But for the main reason is that I think most people, and I know 00:10:03.377 --> 00:10:05.327 I'm one of those people, find. 00:10:05.612 --> 00:10:10.922 Editing something that exists a little easier than starting from scratch, right? 00:10:10.922 --> 00:10:15.452 So often when I'm writing something like say I'm writing my newsletter 00:10:15.692 --> 00:10:20.017 or when I was running the campaign writing some political copy or I. 00:10:20.017 --> 00:10:22.182 Just thinking about like an application, right? 00:10:22.182 --> 00:10:23.022 Or a business rule. 00:10:23.252 --> 00:10:26.912 It's a lot easier if I start with something that's already there 00:10:27.182 --> 00:10:28.532 and then start to modify it. 00:10:28.532 --> 00:10:31.142 Now the end result might be something completely new, right? 00:10:31.412 --> 00:10:34.661 But , just having that, thing to kind of look at and, and gain 00:10:34.661 --> 00:10:38.601 inspiration from, I think really does help a lot of folks get started. 00:10:39.096 --> 00:10:41.886 TheDuke: and on that point, I can't tell you even before I really 00:10:41.886 --> 00:10:44.556 knew what generative AI was and. 00:10:44.766 --> 00:10:49.746 Long before chat, G P T I longed for a little co-pilot 00:10:50.321 --> 00:10:50.671 CJ: Right. 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:52.089 TheDuke: you guys remember Star Trek? 00:10:52.089 --> 00:10:56.319 I'm assuming everybody heres a, a lot of our listeners might be too young for 00:10:56.319 --> 00:10:59.199 like the next generation Star Trek where they just walk up to the replicated, 00:10:59.199 --> 00:11:02.059 like computer tea, hot and it, it was 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:02.164 CJ: no. 00:11:02.404 --> 00:11:02.704 Hold on. 00:11:02.704 --> 00:11:02.944 Hold on. 00:11:02.944 --> 00:11:03.634 Hold T. 00:11:04.204 --> 00:11:05.014 Oh, gray hot. 00:11:05.074 --> 00:11:05.704 Let's get it right. 00:11:05.829 --> 00:11:06.069 TheDuke: right. 00:11:06.069 --> 00:11:06.489 I'm sorry. 00:11:06.489 --> 00:11:06.669 Yeah. 00:11:07.764 --> 00:11:09.324 Negative four Star Trek fan points. 00:11:12.264 --> 00:11:12.564 Okay. 00:11:12.564 --> 00:11:15.714 But like, have you ever been in neck deep in a script and you've got some 00:11:15.719 --> 00:11:19.864 kind of sample record that you wanna run through with it, and so you're basically 00:11:19.864 --> 00:11:21.654 like going back to your main tab. 00:11:22.534 --> 00:11:26.494 So that you can open, say the user's table in another tab so you can find 00:11:26.494 --> 00:11:28.355 a user so you can copy their CIS id. 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.984 So you can go back to the script where you're gonna use that CIS ID to go get 00:11:31.989 --> 00:11:33.694 the user and have the script do its thing. 00:11:33.904 --> 00:11:37.024 And it's just like, wouldn't you love to just tell the thing go get me the 00:11:37.024 --> 00:11:39.514 CIS ID for Robert Fedor, user record. 00:11:39.736 --> 00:11:40.426 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:40.641 --> 00:11:40.852 TheDuke: know what I mean? 00:11:40.857 --> 00:11:41.011 And 00:11:41.116 --> 00:11:41.776 CJ: Oh my God, 00:11:42.057 --> 00:11:43.737 TheDuke: almost like a virtual agent, right? 00:11:43.737 --> 00:11:46.467 So you have your code thing up and running, but I don't wanna like, 00:11:46.587 --> 00:11:49.587 I don't wanna open the interface so I can freaking navigate. 00:11:51.012 --> 00:11:51.302 CJ: dude. 00:11:51.467 --> 00:11:51.857 Mark: Yeah. 00:11:52.047 --> 00:11:55.392 TheDuke: just like, go get me the cis idea of Rob from this table. 00:11:55.392 --> 00:11:55.782 Do it. 00:11:56.486 --> 00:11:57.326 CJ: man, that's amazing. 00:11:57.446 --> 00:12:01.046 So when you think about it, right, like you said, VAR var user to like a 00:12:01.046 --> 00:12:05.889 generative AI prompt that which is get me five demo users in, you know what I mean? 00:12:05.889 --> 00:12:06.219 And it's. 00:12:06.869 --> 00:12:08.279 TheDuke: or even like a virtual agent. 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:09.989 Just call him Fido to go fetch, right? 00:12:09.989 --> 00:12:13.049 Fido, Go fetch me this and it's just like a virtual agent sits maybe in its 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.409 own tab or whatever, and then I can just take whatever it gives back to me. 00:12:16.409 --> 00:12:19.679 I'm sure I want the generative AI in the code interface unless 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.929 I'm telling it to make me a glide record script or something. 00:12:21.929 --> 00:12:25.492 But, but I've just, I've so many times I've had to reach for something 00:12:25.702 --> 00:12:30.022 that's all the way across, and that's how you get like 10, 12 tabs. 00:12:30.362 --> 00:12:30.782 CJ: right. 00:12:30.907 --> 00:12:33.667 TheDuke: Across your navigator bar cause you're like, you need to be able 00:12:33.667 --> 00:12:35.257 to check on such and such a record. 00:12:35.377 --> 00:12:37.987 And it would be even better if that was voice operated. 00:12:38.196 --> 00:12:38.586 CJ: Huh, 00:12:38.924 --> 00:12:42.267 Mark: Well, maybe that's, the next thing to have it also voice operated, But 00:12:42.267 --> 00:12:48.217 it is like, making your life easier or having, um, yeah, certain code or, or 00:12:48.222 --> 00:12:50.407 whatever being auto generated for you. 00:12:50.412 --> 00:12:52.857 And you al already have the, the base, right? 00:12:52.857 --> 00:12:58.081 So you can do more in the same amount of time or you already have some 00:12:58.231 --> 00:13:01.951 examples of a certain good standard. 00:13:02.411 --> 00:13:04.001 that will be really interesting. 00:13:04.241 --> 00:13:10.044 I do see it also as a base and not, it's, it's full coat or full flow or whatever. 00:13:10.104 --> 00:13:13.794 Cause I, I did feel, some sentiment, that knowledge that people were 00:13:13.794 --> 00:13:15.904 thinking, oh, now everyone can do this. 00:13:16.472 --> 00:13:19.772 so maybe even people from a, a service desk or whatever. 00:13:20.162 --> 00:13:22.112 Yeah, I personally don't believe in that. 00:13:22.149 --> 00:13:24.392 also really no code, stuff. 00:13:24.392 --> 00:13:30.046 I don't believe in that because still, at some point it gets more complicated, so 00:13:30.076 --> 00:13:34.576 you really need the technical consultant or who, who's going to review it or. 00:13:35.051 --> 00:13:37.421 Who is going to govern this? 00:13:37.451 --> 00:13:42.041 Because if everyone can do this and no one is on top of this, 00:13:42.221 --> 00:13:45.007 it will get a mad, mad show. 00:13:45.161 --> 00:13:47.371 And that's not how it works in my opinion. 00:13:47.606 --> 00:13:48.266 TheDuke: Oh, for sure. 00:13:48.266 --> 00:13:54.799 Like I, I've been using chat g p T to either write me scripts or find me the 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.349 instructions to do something like I was trying to launch assessments from a script 00:13:58.502 --> 00:14:00.182 and I was like, give me the instructions. 00:14:00.392 --> 00:14:03.872 And it it would have like eight step process and then like step seven 00:14:03.872 --> 00:14:06.512 was just completely batshit crazy. 00:14:09.152 --> 00:14:10.012 And then what? 00:14:12.717 --> 00:14:14.637 CJ: And then Z Butcher and says, what? 00:14:15.407 --> 00:14:15.627 Mark: Oh. 00:14:19.872 --> 00:14:20.922 CJ: Oh, man, that's awesome. 00:14:21.732 --> 00:14:23.086 But thinking about this, right? 00:14:23.119 --> 00:14:26.599 being a a huge proponent of the people side of the business, right? 00:14:26.599 --> 00:14:29.416 I feel like this gives just an immense amount of advantage and 00:14:29.416 --> 00:14:33.156 value to folks who are really good at the people stuff, right? 00:14:33.166 --> 00:14:37.276 like you said, mark the governance, but also the ability to interact with 00:14:37.276 --> 00:14:39.646 stakeholders to make sure that the requirements that you're getting, that 00:14:39.646 --> 00:14:41.526 you're gonna feed into generative ai. 00:14:41.837 --> 00:14:44.747 Are the requirements that the business actually needs and wants. 00:14:44.937 --> 00:14:48.584 Because I, I do think like as this thing becomes bigger and better 00:14:48.637 --> 00:14:52.267 and gets more pervasive and you start to get that sprawl as anyone, 00:14:52.267 --> 00:14:53.677 will be able to get started on it. 00:14:53.677 --> 00:14:57.237 Not everyone will be able to a, finish it and two, you know, know. 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.699 how it's interacting with, with everything and how the business 00:15:00.699 --> 00:15:02.229 can best use the results, right? 00:15:02.229 --> 00:15:06.189 So I think there's gonna be a lot more, need for the qualification 00:15:06.189 --> 00:15:09.772 upfront and that management over time, than we currently have now. 00:15:10.772 --> 00:15:11.762 Mark: Yeah, definitely. 00:15:11.882 --> 00:15:12.302 Yeah. 00:15:12.486 --> 00:15:12.786 Yeah. 00:15:13.201 --> 00:15:15.301 CJ: So, mark, tell us about instant scan. 00:15:15.456 --> 00:15:16.141 I, I know you're, 00:15:16.206 --> 00:15:16.566 TheDuke: scan. 00:15:18.571 --> 00:15:20.717 CJ: I know you're doing a lot, with that, and I see you talking a 00:15:20.717 --> 00:15:22.337 lot about it on, uh, on LinkedIn. 00:15:22.367 --> 00:15:25.307 So yeah, why don't you close in to, uh, some of the secret sauce there. 00:15:27.487 --> 00:15:29.619 Mark: I can, talk a few hours on it. 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:31.749 Um, 00:15:31.839 --> 00:15:32.079 no, 00:15:32.109 --> 00:15:33.754 TheDuke: got a precise question about it though. 00:15:33.964 --> 00:15:35.194 What's stopping the adoption? 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:36.319 Mark: yeah. 00:15:36.409 --> 00:15:37.639 That's a really good one. 00:15:37.691 --> 00:15:42.472 because in my opinion, Incan should be used at every 00:15:42.472 --> 00:15:44.379 customer on everyone's radar. 00:15:44.526 --> 00:15:48.726 Maybe not Incan, maybe you've got something from a third party or whatever, 00:15:49.206 --> 00:15:54.781 but something similar should be, one of the, top priorities within every customer. 00:15:55.309 --> 00:15:59.632 if we just talk about Incan, as the, the, the out of the box application from 00:15:59.632 --> 00:16:05.369 ServiceNow, it's just an application, on everyone's instance with which you 00:16:05.369 --> 00:16:07.829 can interrogate your whole instance. 00:16:07.889 --> 00:16:13.489 It has such a powerful scan engine, which yeah, you can just scan almost everything. 00:16:13.792 --> 00:16:15.232 obviously the first thing people. 00:16:15.676 --> 00:16:19.576 our thinking about is scanning, scripting, business rules, script includes whatever, 00:16:19.576 --> 00:16:24.196 and our scripts up to a certain standard, certain coding, best practices, whatever. 00:16:24.436 --> 00:16:28.576 But in my opinion, it's, it can be way more like Incan. 00:16:28.876 --> 00:16:33.359 You could also use to check your infant health. 00:16:33.667 --> 00:16:35.437 our queues being processed. 00:16:35.437 --> 00:16:38.697 are your mids gring, , how is your email doing? 00:16:38.697 --> 00:16:39.767 Is there backlog? 00:16:39.887 --> 00:16:43.577 Your email showing your triggers or whatever? 00:16:43.711 --> 00:16:45.691 so you can use it for, for that. 00:16:45.737 --> 00:16:47.217 you could also use it to 00:16:47.472 --> 00:16:49.417 CJ: Can we, can we pause right there for a second mark? 00:16:49.627 --> 00:16:52.177 Because I think, because I think that's, really interesting. 00:16:52.332 --> 00:16:57.012 one of the things that I'm, I, focusing a lot more on lately right, is dashboarding, 00:16:57.012 --> 00:16:58.542 and I think ServiceNow is too. 00:16:58.642 --> 00:17:01.562 but the reason I'm tying that, , to what you just said, right, is like there's a 00:17:01.567 --> 00:17:04.762 lot of these performance, metrics and, and things that are kind of hidden below 00:17:04.982 --> 00:17:09.072 the surface, And we're not necessarily exposing them, on a regular basis. 00:17:09.072 --> 00:17:09.342 And you're. 00:17:09.617 --> 00:17:11.997 What you're saying is basically what, instant scan is that we can 00:17:11.997 --> 00:17:15.337 have this almost kind of feels like AI to a certain extent, right? 00:17:15.337 --> 00:17:18.487 Like we can have this thing, this process kind of running, that's gonna 00:17:18.487 --> 00:17:21.877 surface like these potential problems or these existing problems, right? 00:17:22.081 --> 00:17:24.821 and kind of give them some airtime to the folks who need to fix them. 00:17:24.821 --> 00:17:26.316 am I, am I understanding that correctly? 00:17:26.861 --> 00:17:28.691 Mark: Yeah, that, that's definitely possible. 00:17:28.964 --> 00:17:33.517 basically Incan will just generate, uh, those, findings for you. 00:17:33.549 --> 00:17:34.954 so it gives you that insight. 00:17:35.194 --> 00:17:39.574 But then still you need to think about how am I going to embed. 00:17:40.444 --> 00:17:42.034 Scan in our way of working. 00:17:42.184 --> 00:17:44.434 And then you do need to set up yourself. 00:17:44.474 --> 00:17:47.504 are you going to use notifications for that incident? 00:17:47.564 --> 00:17:51.747 Uh, are you going to trigger integration, or whatever. 00:17:51.927 --> 00:17:56.056 That's something that you do need to set up, That does not come with, with Incan. 00:17:56.516 --> 00:18:01.292 Incan itself is just a base application, which can just, scan your whole 00:18:01.292 --> 00:18:03.422 incense and produce a lot of findings. 00:18:03.536 --> 00:18:06.206 but then it's what do you do with those, findings? 00:18:06.601 --> 00:18:08.431 so that's really, really interesting. 00:18:08.487 --> 00:18:12.147 but yeah, that's already another subject, like embedding Incan 00:18:12.507 --> 00:18:13.917 in your, in your way of working. 00:18:14.214 --> 00:18:19.134 but yeah, let's, start at every customer is, Actually using it and using it 00:18:19.314 --> 00:18:21.534 regularly and, perhaps using it scheduled. 00:18:21.594 --> 00:18:26.454 Cause you can also just schedule, all the Incan checks or suites or whatever. 00:18:26.651 --> 00:18:28.097 so that's, really interesting. 00:18:28.547 --> 00:18:30.857 TheDuke: It is got a point scan capability too, right? 00:18:30.977 --> 00:18:31.457 Mark: yeah. 00:18:31.462 --> 00:18:31.567 Yeah. 00:18:31.757 --> 00:18:33.737 TheDuke: don't wait for the scan this happened. 00:18:33.737 --> 00:18:34.637 Go tell somebody. 00:18:34.732 --> 00:18:38.212 Mark: Yeah, yeah, that's, that's one of the out of the box possibilities. 00:18:38.302 --> 00:18:39.082 Point scan. 00:18:39.082 --> 00:18:43.702 So you can scan any artifact, like, a script include, for example. 00:18:43.882 --> 00:18:46.792 And then, all the scan checks are being performed against 00:18:46.852 --> 00:18:48.682 that, script include the same. 00:18:48.687 --> 00:18:52.042 You can also already do out of the box for update sets, so you 00:18:52.072 --> 00:18:54.322 can scan complete update sets. 00:18:54.322 --> 00:18:57.682 And the same, you can also do out of the box for scoped applications. 00:18:58.071 --> 00:19:00.451 so you can scan the full, application. 00:19:00.647 --> 00:19:03.827 that's all also already something like, yeah, how to 00:19:03.827 --> 00:19:05.267 embed it in your way of working. 00:19:05.267 --> 00:19:09.151 Cause maybe some customers want to embed this when you're closing 00:19:09.151 --> 00:19:12.711 an update set or when you're finishing, uh, a new app version. 00:19:13.091 --> 00:19:17.701 Or maybe you want to perform this every one or two weeks at the end 00:19:17.701 --> 00:19:19.891 of your, uh, sprint, for example. 00:19:20.004 --> 00:19:22.844 So, yeah, that's already a bit the, the way of, working. 00:19:22.844 --> 00:19:24.554 which you need to, to, to think of. 00:19:24.864 --> 00:19:26.694 CJ: I like that phrase, the way of working. 00:19:26.724 --> 00:19:31.624 , because I do think we don't often think of the way we work as a cohesive 00:19:31.684 --> 00:19:33.784 ecosystem sort of level, thing. 00:19:33.784 --> 00:19:37.274 But we off, we just think of it as a series of tasks, I have a story, so I 00:19:37.274 --> 00:19:40.274 gotta build this thing, I gotta test the thing, then I gotta push the thing, 00:19:40.344 --> 00:19:44.567 But there's a way, that there's a rapper around all of that, That we don't always 00:19:44.567 --> 00:19:47.022 think about and maybe often gets missed. 00:19:47.322 --> 00:19:50.886 As well, And so there's a phrase where folks say like, if you don't create 00:19:50.886 --> 00:19:52.086 the culture of a, business, right? 00:19:52.086 --> 00:19:53.406 Then it'll get created for you. 00:19:53.706 --> 00:19:54.936 I feel like the same thing here. 00:19:54.936 --> 00:19:57.776 And if you don't intentionally create a way of working, then it 00:19:57.776 --> 00:20:00.926 gets created for you with basically like your developer habits, right? 00:20:00.926 --> 00:20:02.277 Like that kind of just eek out. 00:20:02.331 --> 00:20:02.751 Mark: Yeah, 00:20:02.796 --> 00:20:06.849 CJ: And, and I, and I love how you mentioned integrating Instant scan into 00:20:06.849 --> 00:20:10.779 your way of working here and doing that intentionally as a way of adoption. 00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:14.339 Mark: Yeah, I, I just want to mention then, that it's even way more 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:17.879 because I, I, I just was mentioning, that you can, perform checks on 00:20:17.879 --> 00:20:19.619 scripting and, and stuff like that. 00:20:19.624 --> 00:20:22.976 And then also mentioned, performing checks, like, how, uh, is your 00:20:22.981 --> 00:20:24.646 instance health, but you can also. 00:20:25.196 --> 00:20:27.296 Use this for a support team. 00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:31.552 for example, your daily system administrators jobs, like checking. 00:20:31.732 --> 00:20:34.432 How is the data in your instance? 00:20:34.549 --> 00:20:38.409 do you have issues on your attachment stable or on your incident stable? 00:20:39.139 --> 00:20:44.059 Uh, like, uh, uh, or a lot of, uh, workflows, active for, uh, 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:46.039 close incidents or, or whatever. 00:20:46.204 --> 00:20:48.254 TheDuke: So you can basically make your own health checks. 00:20:48.889 --> 00:20:50.209 Mark: yeah, definitely def 00:20:50.239 --> 00:20:50.869 definitely. 00:20:51.304 --> 00:20:54.184 TheDuke: instead of is it coded and configured in a healthy way? 00:20:54.184 --> 00:20:58.034 It's just like, am I past some kind of health threshold that I want to measure 00:20:58.154 --> 00:20:59.624 that's independent of the platform. 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:00.979 Mark: Yeah, definitely. 00:21:00.979 --> 00:21:04.369 But actually because of that you're checking also. 00:21:04.399 --> 00:21:04.639 Yeah. 00:21:04.639 --> 00:21:06.409 Data issues obviously. 00:21:06.874 --> 00:21:09.094 Uh, at the end you have to fix those issues. 00:21:09.424 --> 00:21:13.347 But there's most likely, a certain cost behind those data issues. 00:21:13.347 --> 00:21:16.497 So there might be something wrong in your coding. 00:21:16.497 --> 00:21:19.317 There might be something wrong in your flows or workflows. 00:21:19.707 --> 00:21:23.907 So eventually you are still getting to technical issues, which are brought up 00:21:24.147 --> 00:21:28.257 to the surface, but also those data, checks are really important cause. 00:21:28.444 --> 00:21:31.864 Maybe people are not aware that they're looking at reporting, 00:21:31.864 --> 00:21:34.054 which is utterly incorrect. 00:21:35.164 --> 00:21:38.194 But yeah, now these data issues are popping up. 00:21:38.644 --> 00:21:42.844 Or maybe, maybe you're using tools like process, optimalization, 00:21:42.844 --> 00:21:47.374 slowness, whatever, and you have all these kinds of conclusions on 00:21:47.379 --> 00:21:50.584 data, which is actually incorrect. 00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:54.339 Also on that end, Incan can help so much. 00:21:54.516 --> 00:21:58.566 just to give a small example, I performed Incan a few weeks ago 00:21:58.566 --> 00:21:59.876 at, the bank in the Netherlands. 00:22:00.266 --> 00:22:03.656 And we had more than 6 million scan findings. 00:22:03.956 --> 00:22:05.636 More than 6 million findings. 00:22:05.696 --> 00:22:06.176 That's incredible. 00:22:06.752 --> 00:22:08.162 So really interesting. 00:22:08.297 --> 00:22:11.567 TheDuke: Does, does a finding presuppose that there's something wrong. 00:22:11.872 --> 00:22:12.382 Mark: yes. 00:22:12.412 --> 00:22:13.732 Uh, scan finding. 00:22:13.732 --> 00:22:14.272 Yeah. 00:22:14.722 --> 00:22:15.352 Obviously, 00:22:15.677 --> 00:22:16.577 TheDuke: 6 million things. 00:22:16.852 --> 00:22:20.572 Mark: you, you, you might argue on some things, that's definitely possible. 00:22:20.632 --> 00:22:24.712 But it can already be that, of that 6 million findings, that half 00:22:24.712 --> 00:22:26.672 a million are about one issue. 00:22:27.727 --> 00:22:30.457 Um, so try to locate that issue. 00:22:30.517 --> 00:22:33.757 Take that issue away, then Solve those findings. 00:22:33.757 --> 00:22:36.517 And maybe those are data findings or whatever. 00:22:36.757 --> 00:22:40.004 And then, that chunk is already gone, for me. 00:22:40.004 --> 00:22:43.837 It's also not uncommon that you have millions of findings, because I'll be 00:22:43.837 --> 00:22:48.236 performing hundreds and hundreds of scanning checks, yeah, it does tell that, 00:22:48.266 --> 00:22:53.156 that, that there's so much work to do on, on everyone's, uh, search now instance. 00:22:53.802 --> 00:22:56.232 TheDuke: We could probably make this show, whole show on instant scan. 00:22:57.102 --> 00:23:02.352 It's, it's something I'm trying to get way deeper on because I have 00:23:02.352 --> 00:23:06.072 been obsessed with the concept of admin sensor since they ruled it out. 00:23:06.072 --> 00:23:07.782 But I'm just like throwing my hands up and side. 00:23:07.787 --> 00:23:09.502 I'm gonna build my own because. 00:23:10.819 --> 00:23:16.156 There's such a passive way for current admins to, understand their instance 00:23:16.546 --> 00:23:18.526 and understand what needs to get done. 00:23:19.276 --> 00:23:20.446 No, I shouldn't say it's passive. 00:23:20.446 --> 00:23:21.496 It's the opposite of that. 00:23:21.551 --> 00:23:23.541 CJ: Proactive is what I like to think of it, 00:23:23.776 --> 00:23:25.046 TheDuke: that's where it needs to be, right? 00:23:25.306 --> 00:23:30.376 It needs to be proactive and the proactivity can come from passive scans. 00:23:30.916 --> 00:23:34.666 Meaning look for these things that tell me if I'm healthy or not healthy, and then 00:23:34.666 --> 00:23:39.346 tell me otherwise, like you're waiting for somebody else, almost external to the 00:23:39.346 --> 00:23:41.686 team to pick up on the symptoms of this. 00:23:41.686 --> 00:23:44.926 Like, this workflow isn't running right, 00:23:45.611 --> 00:23:45.901 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:46.096 --> 00:23:46.436 TheDuke: you know? 00:23:47.356 --> 00:23:50.442 And wouldn't you like to know that way beforehand, like Mark was saying 00:23:50.442 --> 00:23:53.462 about, are your events getting queued up and processed correctly? 00:23:53.462 --> 00:23:55.649 Because flows basically come from events, right? 00:23:55.816 --> 00:23:59.656 doesn't the flow put an event in the event queue A flow instance? 00:24:00.111 --> 00:24:00.381 Mark: Yeah. 00:24:00.381 --> 00:24:01.461 Yeah, that's uh, that's true. 00:24:01.461 --> 00:24:01.761 Yeah. 00:24:02.146 --> 00:24:02.356 TheDuke: Yeah. 00:24:02.356 --> 00:24:04.936 So if it's not, getting there or if it's getting there wrong 00:24:04.941 --> 00:24:05.836 or so I, I don't know, but 00:24:05.951 --> 00:24:07.331 CJ: No, I'm following you on this, right? 00:24:07.331 --> 00:24:09.851 Like if there's an, if there's an outcome, right, that you can 00:24:09.851 --> 00:24:13.064 predict, then you should be able to run a scan against that outcome. 00:24:13.064 --> 00:24:15.614 If you're not seeing the outcome, then it then scan a flag at, 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:20.659 TheDuke: And just like Mark said, 6 million things, six, 6 million findings, 00:24:20.809 --> 00:24:23.119 and who cares how, deeply they're grouped. 00:24:23.329 --> 00:24:26.599 The fact that this was effectively invisible information 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:28.159 for, for me yesterday. 00:24:28.354 --> 00:24:28.704 CJ: right. 00:24:29.239 --> 00:24:31.999 TheDuke: And then imagine you got your admin dashboard where it's 00:24:31.999 --> 00:24:34.622 like, here's your admin accounts that are active in prodding. 00:24:34.622 --> 00:24:39.452 The last time they logged in here is your security center results. 00:24:39.752 --> 00:24:45.331 Here are, update sets from your, lower instances that have been completed 00:24:45.331 --> 00:24:46.982 on those instances in the past week. 00:24:47.221 --> 00:24:49.531 And then here's your instant scan results. 00:24:49.651 --> 00:24:54.421 And it's basically A complete dashboard information about your instance that 00:24:54.421 --> 00:24:58.801 otherwise was invisible to you, you would have to go about proactively. 00:24:58.861 --> 00:25:01.141 Uh, getting it yourself is not even passive. 00:25:01.261 --> 00:25:06.812 Sorry, I'm totally, somebody pulled my rip cord and let me go. 00:25:08.711 --> 00:25:10.181 CJ: No, man, I, I'm with you on this. 00:25:10.181 --> 00:25:10.421 Right. 00:25:10.476 --> 00:25:11.976 I think that's one of the great things about it. 00:25:12.096 --> 00:25:14.706 You know what I love about the ServiceNow platform, right? 00:25:14.706 --> 00:25:18.909 Is that there are so many of these sorts of things that, the use case for them 00:25:18.909 --> 00:25:21.609 are, is not always obviously apparent. 00:25:22.154 --> 00:25:25.034 on what the intended use case for it is, right? 00:25:25.034 --> 00:25:29.564 Like, so Insta Scan has like a, a ton of these like kind of secondary and tertiary 00:25:29.564 --> 00:25:33.614 use cases that you can use to make your way of working a whole lot better, but you 00:25:33.619 --> 00:25:36.824 know, if you look at the documentation, documentation might only have like a 00:25:36.824 --> 00:25:38.216 certain, selection of things, right? 00:25:38.526 --> 00:25:40.866 I look, I think about data certification the same way, right? 00:25:40.866 --> 00:25:43.446 Like there's so many interesting and cool ways that you can 00:25:43.446 --> 00:25:44.976 use, that application that. 00:25:44.976 --> 00:25:48.776 Aren't necessarily the way the ServiceNow intended, but are still super valuable. 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.439 I feel like instant scan is one of those things that is in that same 00:25:52.439 --> 00:25:55.949 category of ServiceNow created it to do this sort of thing, but didn't 00:25:55.949 --> 00:25:58.619 necessarily think we were gonna do all these other cool things with it too. 00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:00.959 But it's still, that just makes it super valuable, 00:26:01.954 --> 00:26:05.434 Mark: Yeah, and it's also your, imagination is your limitation. 00:26:05.494 --> 00:26:09.394 So you really have to come up with these things yourself. 00:26:09.594 --> 00:26:10.134 CJ: Put that on the 00:26:10.149 --> 00:26:10.684 Mark: are no 00:26:11.004 --> 00:26:11.334 CJ: mark. 00:26:11.334 --> 00:26:12.234 Put that on the t-shirt. 00:26:12.234 --> 00:26:13.974 Your imagination is your limitation. 00:26:13.974 --> 00:26:14.034 I 00:26:14.034 --> 00:26:14.604 love that. 00:26:15.484 --> 00:26:16.684 Mark: For next year. 00:26:16.689 --> 00:26:16.854 Okay. 00:26:19.564 --> 00:26:24.464 But, um, it's just, there are no examples like these, so you really have 00:26:24.469 --> 00:26:26.264 to come up with these, uh, yourself. 00:26:26.269 --> 00:26:29.714 And also because Incan out of the box is only. 00:26:29.752 --> 00:26:34.942 supplied with a really limited number of scan checks, which are also 00:26:34.942 --> 00:26:39.352 mainly focused on what you already see on Instant Security Center. 00:26:39.529 --> 00:26:43.489 so you really have to create those scan checks yourself and Yeah. 00:26:43.489 --> 00:26:44.449 And you can do so. 00:26:44.449 --> 00:26:48.379 And, uh, I've also created a ton of Articles and information 00:26:48.379 --> 00:26:49.642 on that, so everyone. 00:26:49.642 --> 00:26:51.712 Should be able to, do crazy stuff now. 00:26:52.612 --> 00:26:57.562 But, um, I think that's also the point on, uh, why it's not that much adopted. 00:26:57.746 --> 00:27:01.889 probably because out of the box, there's hardly any skin checks 00:27:01.949 --> 00:27:03.869 shipped with, uh, with Incan. 00:27:04.082 --> 00:27:07.582 so I think that's, that's one of the factors also, 00:27:07.652 --> 00:27:09.752 TheDuke: one of your favorite instant scans to build? 00:27:10.302 --> 00:27:14.712 Mark: I don't know if I have particular ones or probably if I'll go 00:27:14.712 --> 00:27:15.762 through the, through the whole list. 00:27:15.762 --> 00:27:19.562 But it's more that, uh, that, that the skin checks you. 00:27:19.662 --> 00:27:21.672 You've got several types of skin checks. 00:27:21.672 --> 00:27:24.869 You, you've got some simple ones, simple, uh, table checks. 00:27:24.869 --> 00:27:27.999 You've got some, column checks, and those are not that spectacular. 00:27:28.409 --> 00:27:33.562 But especially the linter checks, they are a lot harder, a lot more complex. 00:27:33.562 --> 00:27:35.002 but with those you can. 00:27:35.237 --> 00:27:38.327 Create some nice checks on, on, on scripting. 00:27:38.517 --> 00:27:43.607 but they are just way, way more complex and I, feel like I only touch the tip 00:27:43.607 --> 00:27:46.007 of the iceberg on that subject yet. 00:27:46.577 --> 00:27:50.537 So I really still have to, to dive into that way more and. 00:27:50.912 --> 00:27:53.522 see how much more we can get out of it. 00:27:53.822 --> 00:27:58.872 Even that I already published so much on Incan, I think there's way 00:27:58.902 --> 00:28:02.352 more that we can do, but uh, yeah. 00:28:02.902 --> 00:28:03.232 CJ: Okay. 00:28:03.766 --> 00:28:06.096 You just mentioned how you've, written and published so much 00:28:06.096 --> 00:28:07.656 stuff about instant scan. 00:28:07.849 --> 00:28:11.239 you have written and published so much content about so many things, 00:28:13.529 --> 00:28:15.409 like, man, you are prolific, 00:28:16.749 --> 00:28:20.289 TheDuke: Yeah, in ways he's prolific amongst those who are prolific. 00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.039 He makes prolific people just go, damn. 00:28:22.744 --> 00:28:26.554 CJ: Right, like, right, like you got the 1% and you're like the 0.1%, man. 00:28:26.764 --> 00:28:29.824 And, and, and, and first I just wanna say thank you on behalf of the 00:28:29.824 --> 00:28:31.529 community, for giving so much back. 00:28:31.529 --> 00:28:34.439 I know it takes a lot of time, but, I want to ask too, like, 00:28:34.467 --> 00:28:35.757 what makes you do it, right? 00:28:35.757 --> 00:28:37.737 Like, I mean, like, you know what I mean? 00:28:37.737 --> 00:28:40.887 Like, so folks always ask you, like me and Robert this, question 00:28:40.887 --> 00:28:42.057 like, what makes you do this thing? 00:28:42.057 --> 00:28:45.507 and so I like to ask folks who produce more content than I do. 00:28:45.687 --> 00:28:46.497 What makes you do it? 00:28:48.997 --> 00:28:49.357 Mark: Okay. 00:28:49.357 --> 00:28:50.077 Yeah, no worries. 00:28:51.007 --> 00:28:56.381 Um, I, it is like I, I'm, I'm choosing my battle, so I, do stick to writing 00:28:56.381 --> 00:29:01.111 content and I was thinking like maybe I should do some videos or maybe 00:29:01.361 --> 00:29:06.556 podcasts or whatever, but I am like, Well just stick to the writing, for now. 00:29:06.616 --> 00:29:07.816 So choose your battles. 00:29:08.076 --> 00:29:08.316 I do write. 00:29:09.411 --> 00:29:13.307 A lot on further agent, a lot on instance can, but indeed also, a 00:29:13.307 --> 00:29:15.161 lot of other subjects, as well. 00:29:15.531 --> 00:29:19.731 , but that's also something new, new comes up with surfs now. 00:29:19.761 --> 00:29:25.294 So probably with Vancouver, Washington, probably Gen ai then, then yeah, I might 00:29:25.684 --> 00:29:31.184 look into that and, and then see what can I find, what is not documented yet? 00:29:31.214 --> 00:29:31.754 What's. 00:29:31.934 --> 00:29:36.254 New things that I see and whatever, and let's, just write it down. 00:29:36.914 --> 00:29:38.414 , cause I like doing it. 00:29:38.564 --> 00:29:40.094 I like to share the information. 00:29:40.134 --> 00:29:44.424 when I started with ServiceNow, I was overwhelmed with how much free content. 00:29:45.136 --> 00:29:50.949 There is, uh, compared with what I, Was used to with my previous, job. 00:29:51.114 --> 00:29:54.139 but also for me it's like creating this content. 00:29:54.139 --> 00:29:57.499 Yeah, it's, it's fun, but it also, learns you a lot because you're 00:29:57.849 --> 00:29:59.529 really diving into a subject. 00:29:59.959 --> 00:30:05.359 Because you are seeing a lot of new things because, well, English is not my native 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:07.069 language, so I need to work on that. 00:30:07.489 --> 00:30:12.122 I'm writing a ton of stuff, so how do I bring a message across? 00:30:12.296 --> 00:30:16.309 so you're also constantly working on yourself, so it does. 00:30:16.702 --> 00:30:18.082 Cost a lot of time. 00:30:18.172 --> 00:30:19.732 It does cost a lot of effort. 00:30:19.762 --> 00:30:20.812 That's, that's true. 00:30:20.862 --> 00:30:22.519 and yes, I do it for free. 00:30:22.536 --> 00:30:23.196 that's true. 00:30:23.466 --> 00:30:26.886 But at the same time, I could also be working for a company and 00:30:26.886 --> 00:30:30.096 I've got a mandatory plan that I need to work on, and I have to do 00:30:30.101 --> 00:30:32.076 mandatory courses and whatever. 00:30:32.736 --> 00:30:32.856 Yeah. 00:30:32.856 --> 00:30:36.036 But now I'm taking control of what I'm doing. 00:30:36.089 --> 00:30:41.999 And I like doing this, so I decide myself what I'm working on. 00:30:42.196 --> 00:30:46.096 the company does not decide that I'm deciding it, and I'm working on my 00:30:46.101 --> 00:30:48.196 hard skills, my soft skills, et cetera. 00:30:48.436 --> 00:30:51.279 But I'm deciding what my future plan is. 00:30:51.399 --> 00:30:52.689 I'm taking control over it. 00:30:53.076 --> 00:30:54.716 And that's, that's, just a huge thing. 00:30:55.076 --> 00:31:00.439 Uh, and I also have to admit, like I'm now 10 or 11 months working as a freelancer. 00:31:00.494 --> 00:31:06.467 And, now I also see how much it benefits me, that I'm doing this 00:31:06.497 --> 00:31:12.231 and that people know my name and that I'm, a multi, m p because, 00:31:12.287 --> 00:31:13.907 I'm actually not looking for work. 00:31:14.057 --> 00:31:15.557 Work is coming to me. 00:31:15.772 --> 00:31:16.192 CJ: preach 00:31:16.767 --> 00:31:17.637 TheDuke: There you go. 00:31:17.824 --> 00:31:22.474 Mark: if I'm doing an interview, people are not asking me for what 00:31:22.474 --> 00:31:24.994 my knowledge level is of ServiceNow. 00:31:24.994 --> 00:31:28.024 People are only asking me, do you fit the company? 00:31:28.054 --> 00:31:29.464 Do you fit the culture? 00:31:29.777 --> 00:31:33.817 if I'm talking with someone who wants to know what I know in of ServiceNow, 00:31:34.007 --> 00:31:37.187 then I know, well, most likely I'm talking with the wrong person. 00:31:37.532 --> 00:31:38.882 CJ: Amen, bro. 00:31:38.882 --> 00:31:39.152 I'm in. 00:31:39.152 --> 00:31:40.892 I outta my seat right now. 00:31:42.582 --> 00:31:46.372 Mark: So, but those are things I, didn't really realize that 00:31:46.552 --> 00:31:48.472 a year ago or two years ago. 00:31:48.547 --> 00:31:52.532 well now I'm actually confronted with it like this and I'm really 00:31:52.532 --> 00:31:57.362 like, whoa, I'm benefiting from this even more and more and more. 00:31:57.367 --> 00:32:03.842 Well, I'm enjoying doing this and creating content and sharing and whatever. 00:32:04.082 --> 00:32:07.479 I just enjoy doing that a lot and I'm benefiting. 00:32:07.479 --> 00:32:09.639 Massively now because of that 00:32:09.904 --> 00:32:11.314 TheDuke: It helps when that connection's made. 00:32:11.314 --> 00:32:11.584 Right? 00:32:11.584 --> 00:32:12.124 Like it makes all 00:32:12.189 --> 00:32:12.369 Mark: yeah, 00:32:12.544 --> 00:32:13.234 TheDuke: in the world when you, 00:32:13.744 --> 00:32:15.064 when it's like, oh, it does work. 00:32:15.094 --> 00:32:15.814 Oh damn. 00:32:16.239 --> 00:32:18.369 Mark: yeah, it's just a plus, plus, plus plus. 00:32:18.879 --> 00:32:19.959 It's amazing. 00:32:20.306 --> 00:32:23.096 CJ: It's funny you mentioned all of that, mark, because I've said the same thing 00:32:23.096 --> 00:32:24.776 to folks at, Knowledge last week, right? 00:32:24.776 --> 00:32:26.546 I don't, I don't interview anymore, right? 00:32:26.546 --> 00:32:27.866 it's all about company fest. 00:32:27.871 --> 00:32:29.696 Like, okay, we know you got the skills, right? 00:32:29.696 --> 00:32:32.351 Let's, talk about what we're looking for in terms of how we want the project 00:32:32.411 --> 00:32:35.991 to go and how you work, and whether or not those things are compatible. 00:32:36.057 --> 00:32:40.097 and I mean, it's just a, it's just amazing how many doors this sort of thing opens 00:32:40.097 --> 00:32:44.297 for you , once you create a, you know, a certain level of standing in this 00:32:44.297 --> 00:32:47.831 ecosystem, And then, and that standing is generated through hard work, right? 00:32:47.831 --> 00:32:48.461 the creation of this. 00:32:48.771 --> 00:32:52.341 This content is, is is a lot of time, And a lot of work, and a lot 00:32:52.341 --> 00:32:54.051 of Expertise that goes into it, man. 00:32:54.051 --> 00:32:55.161 But the payoff, right? 00:32:55.341 --> 00:32:56.571 Like as you just said, right? 00:32:56.571 --> 00:32:57.861 Like the payoff is there. 00:32:57.861 --> 00:33:01.024 It's immense, For anybody who's looking especially if you've got any 00:33:01.029 --> 00:33:03.784 kind of entrepreneurial spirit, and you looking to get out there on your 00:33:03.784 --> 00:33:06.514 own, like start with creating content. 00:33:06.884 --> 00:33:08.714 You know, start with helping others, right? 00:33:08.714 --> 00:33:13.514 Like, this is such an altruistic thing for me that has benefited me immensely. 00:33:13.644 --> 00:33:15.774 I can't go on and on about that mark, but this is about you. 00:33:17.254 --> 00:33:20.524 Mark: No, but, but it, it's truly like that and, and completely 00:33:20.524 --> 00:33:21.424 like you're mentioning. 00:33:21.424 --> 00:33:23.374 So yeah, it's, it's amazing. 00:33:23.894 --> 00:33:25.722 TheDuke: We have, just a couple minutes left, mark. 00:33:25.722 --> 00:33:30.012 So why don't you leave any advice for people coming up in your wake? 00:33:30.372 --> 00:33:31.122 Mark: advice. 00:33:31.122 --> 00:33:32.352 Oh, oh, man. 00:33:32.352 --> 00:33:37.261 there's always so much, to tell or, when we'll, uh, stop, this show 00:33:37.261 --> 00:33:40.441 then, then immediately new things will pop in, in, into my mind. 00:33:40.841 --> 00:33:46.981 But, uh, just the biggest advice would always be like, know your resources. 00:33:47.071 --> 00:33:48.361 I see a lot of people. 00:33:48.386 --> 00:33:49.196 Around me. 00:33:49.196 --> 00:33:52.376 Uh, and then certainly they're stuck with on an issue. 00:33:52.526 --> 00:33:52.826 Yeah. 00:33:52.826 --> 00:33:53.456 And what next? 00:33:53.456 --> 00:33:55.929 You can't tell the customer like, I don't know. 00:33:56.036 --> 00:33:57.116 so know your resources. 00:33:57.146 --> 00:33:58.406 Who can you reach out to? 00:33:58.677 --> 00:34:00.112 what resources are out there? 00:34:00.174 --> 00:34:03.474 do you know, uh, the dogs, do you know the community? 00:34:03.474 --> 00:34:06.924 Do you know that there are academies, uh, life coding, happy hours? 00:34:06.924 --> 00:34:11.244 Or are you listening to CJ and the Duke because you get a lot of 00:34:11.484 --> 00:34:15.924 out that as well, uh, inspiring, fun, uh, et cetera, et cetera. 00:34:16.369 --> 00:34:17.219 TheDuke: Pam is Money Corey. 00:34:19.819 --> 00:34:20.689 CJ: Check in the mail. 00:34:22.564 --> 00:34:24.924 Mark: But, uh, yeah, just know your resources because. 00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:30.459 I don't know everything myself also, that's impossible. 00:34:30.459 --> 00:34:34.959 ServiceNow has grown way too much over the, over the few years, and it's, it's 00:34:34.959 --> 00:34:39.369 developing in an extreme high pace, so you can't know everything and you 00:34:39.399 --> 00:34:41.439 don't need to know everything also, 00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:42.119 CJ: Say that one 00:34:42.434 --> 00:34:43.179 Mark: your resource. 00:34:43.409 --> 00:34:44.759 CJ: Say that again for folks. 00:34:44.759 --> 00:34:44.999 Right. 00:34:45.004 --> 00:34:49.199 Because I think sometimes folks try to eat the elephant all at once, right? 00:34:49.899 --> 00:34:50.139 Mark: Yeah. 00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:54.669 It's, it's just like you can't know everything and you also 00:34:54.669 --> 00:34:57.099 don't need to know everything. 00:34:57.879 --> 00:35:03.804 Um, And it's, it's also if you just don't know a, a certain subject or maybe 00:35:03.804 --> 00:35:09.024 you didn't follow it for the last six months, that doesn't have to be an issue. 00:35:09.054 --> 00:35:13.464 There's so much content out there, but do you know how to find it or, we were 00:35:13.464 --> 00:35:20.994 talking earlier this show about chat, G P t if you type in just a short sentence. 00:35:21.331 --> 00:35:23.731 What are you getting out of chat G P T? 00:35:23.941 --> 00:35:27.044 Well, hardly anything, but if you can. 00:35:27.044 --> 00:35:28.694 Make it a whole story. 00:35:28.724 --> 00:35:33.284 Like what are you after that you can really define what it is you are 00:35:33.584 --> 00:35:36.404 searching for and you put that in. 00:35:36.434 --> 00:35:38.834 Then chat, G P T will also come out. 00:35:38.894 --> 00:35:41.684 with a way stronger result. 00:35:42.104 --> 00:35:44.114 And that's the same in your search with search. 00:35:44.114 --> 00:35:46.381 Now you, just need to know the resources. 00:35:46.411 --> 00:35:47.671 What are you looking for? 00:35:47.784 --> 00:35:51.804 Who can you call or who can you reach out to, et cetera. 00:35:52.071 --> 00:35:56.601 because there's so much out there and you really don't need to know everything. 00:35:56.601 --> 00:35:57.471 you really don't. 00:35:57.561 --> 00:35:57.891 yeah. 00:35:58.359 --> 00:35:58.719 CJ: Love it. 00:35:58.724 --> 00:36:01.299 Mark, this has been an amazing interview. 00:36:01.449 --> 00:36:03.429 I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you. 00:36:03.429 --> 00:36:05.909 I thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you in, uh, in Vegas too. 00:36:06.249 --> 00:36:07.689 It was great to meet you in person. 00:36:07.909 --> 00:36:09.829 thanks so much for coming out to do the show. 00:36:10.157 --> 00:36:12.737 TheDuke: We'll have all the mark stuff in the, uh, description below. 00:36:12.797 --> 00:36:14.327 Mark, thanks again for joining us. 00:36:14.327 --> 00:36:15.197 Really appreciate it. 00:36:15.929 --> 00:36:18.029 Mark: Well, thank you, uh, as well. 00:36:18.029 --> 00:36:18.959 a lot of fun. 00:36:19.016 --> 00:36:20.096 a lot of fun doing so. 00:36:20.096 --> 00:36:22.166 And, uh, yeah, keep on going. 00:36:22.166 --> 00:36:26.339 I mean this is show 86, 87, 88. 00:36:26.339 --> 00:36:27.239 I don't know a lot. 00:36:27.389 --> 00:36:30.539 And just keep on going cause it's a lot of fun. 00:36:30.569 --> 00:36:33.916 It's a lot of good content, uh, and inspirational. 00:36:33.916 --> 00:36:35.596 Uh, so keep on the good work. 00:36:35.741 --> 00:36:42.151 TheDuke: It's 85, but we're not counting and we still don't have an outro. 00:36:45.191 --> 00:36:46.301 See you on the next one, folks.